Winter ball /d/iscussion

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Other relevant boards/threads

>>7111817
>>7004492 (just barely alive.)
>>>/x/18335900
>>>/toy/6019537
>>>/tg/50269807
>>>/vp/29937664
>>>/vip/44592
>>>/mlp/28888367
>>>/aco/990128

http://shimmie.4chanhouse.org/index.php?q=/post/list/d/1

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Fellow /toy/ soldier here with some friendly offerings!

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>>7120078

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>>7120081

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>>7120100

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>>7120102

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>>7120103
Have one of these elastic keychain rings?

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>>7120104
Instant tentacle

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>>7120105
Have one of these dusters?

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>>7120107
Tada!

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>>7120109
Wire ties!

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>>7120112
DIY!

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>>7120113

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>>7120114

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>>7120115

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>>7120118

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>>7120119

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>>7120123

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>>7120124

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>>7120125

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>>7120128

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>>7120129

G-guys. I think I like /toy/'s lewd figurines better than our lewd figurines.

>>7120118
Oh, Fuct!

Is that a /toy/ poster or one of us?

I've been a /dxmlptoy/ fan but /dx/ + /mlptoy/ is cool, too, but I don't think they like each other.

We're the cummy glue sticking everything together.

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>>7120290
>/mlptoy/

/toy/ soldier here.

At one hand, /toy/ don't really like hasbro, most of their toys... are not very good quality. In fact, /toy/ isn't a big fan of most eastern brands, like mattel or funko, even neca rubs the wrong way most people. And, afaik, /mlp/ doesn't talk about the toys of their franchises, or last I saw (funny, last winter ball), they didn't had active threads dedicated to their merchandise.

Also, there's the fact talking about anything /mlp/ related outside /mlp/ is banned (iirc, in our photo threads once someone posted some pics of his collection, and among it there were some pony figurines; within the day, the pics were deleted because "muh rule15!"), well, there's little to no real reason for both of our boards to interact with each other.

>>7120078
No shamrock pics? C'mon, she (male) is as /d/ as you can get without being banned.

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>>7120312
>/d/aibadi fans finest moments

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>>7120313
My face when there are multiple comics like this.

>>7120105
>>7120103
>>7120109
Y'all some resourceful, kinky mofos and I love it

>>7120078
that's great dump of pretty inspirational stuff, man. I'm all in for d/toy now

>>7120312
/mlp here

The fact that Hasbro's toy's are so low quality is the reason we don't talk about them, but you will find threads dedicated to hand crafted plushies. In fact almost all of our plushies, art, and toys are all fan-made. It's one of the reason why early stuff was selling for over $1000+ when it came to fan-made mlp products. People wanted merch, desperately in fact, but all was available were really shitty carbon copy lumps of plastic that often had no individuality, just a different color scheme.

here's one i personally like
>>>/mlp/28865068

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>>7120019

Huh, Seems like the bondage slime dress is winning. This is a suprise to me. But not a dissapoint.

I still want something in our hair though. What could we do? I like a 3 horn crown or similar?

>>7120918
That's disappointing.

I like the poofy one much better. It has so much more potential for public humiliation.

Imagine /d/-tan is handing with her date, she pulls them in close so that their lower half is now within the poofy slime dress. They continue to dance and begins to notice a sensation around their hips. They look down and see that the lower half of their costume has dissolved, leaving them bare assed, but still clothed from the waste up.
If they pull away from /d/-tan they'll be exposing themselves to everyone else at the ball, if they stay close to maintain their modesty, the slime begins to push its way into them.

The bondage one is boring in comparison.

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Or hiding /mlp/ or /toy/ under the dress to service us as we dance about.

>>7120918
Just keep digging that knife in.

>>7120078
>>7120081
>>7120084
and more and more to
>>7120312

I'm impressed. Thank you /toy/.

If only more artists put as much effort into their hentai as some of these people put into their dolls/models

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ATM I don't think we have a Deelette date.

>>7122067
Just set her up with the /qst/cm/ play date.

>>7122278
So give her a set of hentai action figures with swords and pot helms? Should work to get them to play along nicely!

>>7122295
How about a giger-esque slime gun?
https://youtu.be/v4yOtuqMplU


Courtesy of /toy/

>>7122424
"Mommy says she really likes this toy, even though I never can play together with her and /tg/..."

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/toy/'s abomination needs some love, /d/ is the only one who can do it!

>>7122926
I came.

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May I just say
lets not go with /tg/

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>>7123090
Wrong image, not like it matters.
We didn't go with /tg/ last year for fidelity reasons. I dunno, I'd like to see someone other than /mlp/ for a year, but that would be hypocritical of me to point out.

>>>/toy/>>6027180

Looks like /toy/'s getting into the mood too, with her Gak dress.

Speaking of the ball, it seems everyone is taking a form of transportation there. Should we? I think /x/ was thinking of taking a Cóiste Bodhar (Irish death coach) so we could take her ride.

I'll just let you guys know right now: I'm no good at drawing inorganic shapes like cars or buildings so driving a DeLorean or whatever is riiiiiiiiiight out.

>>7123155
Would dickgirl centaur versions of nightmares (as in the horse monsters) be too much? Maybe with dolljoints to appeal to /toy/ (and the horse half would appeal to /mlp/, I guess). Or maybe if not dickgirl centaur versions, bondage slave ponygirl (as in the style of bondage, not as in a monstergirl) nightmares?

I mean, I sort of like Mara from MegaTen for the tentacles, dick, and general demonic nature, but if we'd prefer to do something original, I'd like something that has a little bit of both /d/ and /x/ nature.

Alternatively giant flying dicktopuses (octopuses with dick tentacles) seems like it would satisfy that duality, as well.

>>7123101
>>>/toy/6027180

>>7123155
The year before last /d/-tan turned herself and her date (/mlp/-tan) into centaurs.

With /x/-tan... maybe a summoning circle that summons them to wherever the ball is being haled at?

>>7123197
Oh, if it wasn't clear, I meant for the centaurs/ponygirls to be pulling whatever sort of carriage/chariot/whatever we ended up with.

We could fit them with devices that wouldn't let them cum unless they hit 88 miles per hour.

Or if we electrocuted them with 1.21 jiggawatts.

God damn it, you had to bring up DeLoreans, didn't you?

>>7123197
Holy christ, I've never played Shin Megami Tensei what IS that thing?

Eeh, anyway, drawing dickhorses or whatever would be easy for me because 1.) I'm good at drawing dicks and 2.) I'm good at drawing horses. Flying octopusses is also good. Drawing all that leading a coach would murder me so maybe just the horses. I'm also a fan of the summoning circle idea because wow that'd be easy.

>>7123212
I think the transportation talk you've been seeing is in reference to the race that /mint/ and /polo/ have sort of been bandying about. It's starting to look in the /m/ thread like they may just be going mech to mech at this point, though, so maybe a kaiju would be a better option.

/toy/ would certainly approve of some Gojira-style action, I think.

>>7123212
also mara is for cute, pls no bully
>>7118597

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>>7123199
>turning into centaurs
>/toy/ already tried to do that.
>Pic related

Yeah, let's never speak about that again.

>>7123732
I was saying it's been done already and we should think of something else.

A carriage pulled by a big tentacle penis monster or a summoning circle are currently the only other suggestions.

>>7123090
Ayo, senpai, that cuts me deep. We'd be all for RP.

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>>7123739
>only other suggestions
>bondage slave ponygirls

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>>7123871
I thought the anon who suggested that meant the carriage is being pulled by centaurs, and I felt that was already too close to pic related.

>>7123942
I was the anon who suggested it, and I meant either.

>>7120313

We DO have a lot in common.

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/mlp/ looking forward to the ball

>>7120338
God I fucking love that one. Link to the rest?

>>7126018
https://exhentai.org/g/934026/923b90812f/

your lucky I just recently fapped to it so it was still on my tabs lazy anon.

>>7126012
noice

>>7127022
we should tickle the fuck out of their feet

>>7127091
I second this

>>7128770
So is interest in the ball already dead?

>>7129986
yeh, pretty much

>>7129986
People have shit to do right now.

If any more new pics get posted then interest will pick back up.

>>7129986
Weekend will bring back the artists......hopefully.

>>7131243
Well, on the chance that this will actually be true, bump so the thread is still up come the weekend.

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Did we settle on a dress?

Did we settle on a vehicle for the race?

>>7133666
There was a suggestion that we ride the reviltech guyver gigantic fig on /toy/ that got quads. That aside, there's been no real consensus.

For the dress, there was a strawpoll; the bondage dress was winning last I heard, but I haven't checked it out in a while.

>>7133685
The bondage dress is a massive disappointment to me. I don't care for it at all.

There's just nothing to the damn thing, there's nothing interesting that can be done while wearing it like the ideas suggested for the poofy slime dress.

I don't even see any suggestions for making the bondage dress interesting. I don't think the majority of the anons who voted in the strawpoll even looked at the designs, they just came in from somewhere else and said "oh, bondage, that sounds /d/, go with that".

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>>7133843
The bondage dress had a poofy version, too, for once it had consumed enough victims.

>>7134013
I just want a slime dress that has enough lower mass that when someone dances with /d/-tan, their entire lower half gets stuck in it and it eats away the bottom half of their outfit, penetrates them, and makes it so if they pull away they'll be half naked in front of everyone on the dance floor.

That's hot to me. I can't get that out of the skinny bondage dress.

And that design isn't the bondage dress that I've been thinking of, the bondage dress is the one that looks like /d/-tan is wearing a hooker skirt.

>>7134142
Both the bondage dress and the "poofy" dress you're talking about were designed with the idea in mind that they would grow as they absorbed victims. The version you're thinking of is stage one.

>>7134013

NICE dress.
I approve

>>7134528
The scenario I want can't happen if it's already absorbed people because then it gives away the surprise to the other people at the dance.

I thought the dress would be feeding off of /d/-tan's cum.

>>7134816

>Everyone trying to stop /d/emona from cumming so her dress doesn't grow out of control
>/x/ and /mlp/ trying to get her to cum so it does

Could be an interesting dynamic.

>>7133843
>waah people have a fetish I don't have.
Grab a tablet and draw your own goddamn dress.

bu-bump

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>>7136808
B-bump back at you. IT BEGINS.

Also, you guys should probably work out amongst yourselves what would happen if her constantly sliming dickpoles happen to shoot INSIDE of someone.

Does it give them slime panties? Does it form an internal slime dildo? Does it make them lay slime eggs? Does it give them an aphrodisiac effect? Does it attach them to the mothership (motherdress?) like an anglerfish light to an anglerfish (or, well, a male anglerfish to a female anglerfish?) There's so many possibilities so let's hear some ideas.

>>7137591
Good to see you back, Slowtist. Looking bretty gud so far. Can't wait to see the kidnapping.

Little late for proper ideas, but maybe something something slimegirl corruption something. I dunno. Aphrodisiac slime dildo sounds not bad, too.

>>7137591
Okay, Slime panties? Check.
Internal slime dildo? Check.
Egg laying? Sure. That's probably what the internal is for, inserting said egg.
Aphrodisiac effect? Nah, lets just have a calming...Pfffft. COME on! Of COURSE!
FUCKING Horney out the inside!
BUT... make it a slllooooowwww burn.
All the way up to: "Now IIiiii've haaaad... the time of my liiiiife... and I NEVER felt this way before..."
Maybe end it with a cumming lift shot, just like the movie.

>>7137591

I like the dildo idea, especially if it's basically a parasite of some kind, or maybe a remote /d/emona dick.

>>7137591
>>7137673
So blowing a load inside of someone makes a slime dildo that perfectly fits them.
The slime is a slow burning aphrodisiac, once a certain body temperature is achieved, the dildo melts enough for the eggs suspended inside of it to hatch.
After the eggs hatch, it becomes night of the living dresses as they seek more hosts.

>>7137939
You. I like you.

>>7137591
Edge of my seat ,lad ,keep that good shit coming.

>>7137591
>fuck it i'm in a hurry

previously
>/d/emona drinks first batch of slime dress potion
>dick begins to helicopter out of control
>gains lift
>/d/emona spends a period of time levitating from genital spinning while simultaneously ejaculating everywhere
>though enjoyable, /d/emona ponders about the practicality and function

>the next scene /d/emona is seen coming down from the sky and kidnapping helpless victims through helicopter penis

I suppose I'll bump this since new art and stuff has been made.

>>7137993
Just putting all the ideas in order.

>>7137591
fuck man, this some A+ work.

>>7137591
Come on you talented son of a bitch, you got till this weekend.

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>>7141314
I'm trying man! I don't call myself Quick Draw McGraw for this very reason. I got more ideas in my brain but god help my slow hand if we're doing the ball this weekend. I think after this page I'm going to focus on 3-koma and single panels in the interest of saving time. (By the way, when was it decided that the Winter Ball would be THIS weekend?)

I'm done lining the current page (here's a sneak peek) but it'll be tomorrow before I can add some flats and dialogue. Got an early day. Man, drawing super-googly anime face is hard. I looked at some IdolMaster to try and get the feel of it but wow. Anime kawaii uguu face is a lot different from what it was in the 1990s.

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>>7141761
I haven't really tried either, but I would think it'd be easier than 90s variants. The '00s and '10s have sacrificed a lot of detail compared to 90s kawaii uguu. The shapes and what details tend to get preserved are also subtler.

>>7141761
>that Deelette smiling face
muh dick.

Take your time man, you can keep posting even after the ball ,we'll just say it took place during ;)

I think /qa/ have been saying 3rd-4th for a while now.

So we know what /mlp/ is wearing. Anyone know what /x/ is wearing?

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>>7142922
>>7120019

http://archive.4plebs.org/x/thread/18335900/

This is the most refined version no?

>>7137939
apologies, my post SEEMED more sensible when I was pounding it out... at 3am. rereading it, I'm amazed you got anything coherent out of it.

>>7141761
I'd say, try and find a good middle point between 90s and 10s. The 90s stuff tended to be terribly goofy on some things, but I much preferred that style to what we have nowadays, which seems little better then anime CG art.
At the least, you're doing a shitton better job then some of these... single pose motherfuckers who try and toss a fetish in to justify their so called art.
(I know I shouldn't bad mouth someone who at least tries to post, but when they do shit art, and it looks the same no matter how much they work at it, that's never a good sign.
When I see an artist change over time, even if I don't like how they change, they at least ARE evolving their art style)

>>7143346
>skirt
That is an andon bakama, a type of hakama.

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>>7143542
for you deviant i edited it. Can you jerk off to it like the rest of us now :)

>>7143690
thank you ¦ 3

>>7143346
Wow this is fucking hideous. /x/-tan's mother must be ashamed of herself if her daughteru goes out dressed like this.

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>>7137591
Part three. Sorry about it taking so long: I crashed out really hard in the early evening on Friday and slept for about twelve hours lol. You could say I was tired.

After this I think I'm switching to 3-koma strips I think. I would like to do color on them too but I'd also like to get these done fast, so I'm choosing fast instead. I think there's a colorist thread here on /d/ that pops up, so you can always ask them. I also have the .sai and .psds too.

(Deleted the last post of this I made because I realize I forgot a visual element and had to re-post it.)

>>7144038
>>7144042
Huh

>>7144038
>>7144042
Fug.

Huh thats very nicely done

>>7144042
Nice.

Now how is Deelette going to make her mommy (really though, /d/'s the daddy) look pretty?

Deelette might pick something from /d/-tan's makeup kit that causes interesting effects.
Like a different shade of lipstick that has magical properties that make /d/-tan want to kiss more, but if she kisses the same person three times with it their vitality goes through the roof with pants splitting erections or skirt flooding horniness.

Or maybe the lipstick just makes anything she kisses with it grow.

Perhaps the ribbons Deelette puts in /d/-tan's tentacle hair are made from some form of flower that releases illusion causing pollen, or maybe the ribbons are snakes that hypnotize anyone who stares at them fro too long.

And that's not even considering what might be in the spray bottles that look like perfumes.

>>7137591
part 2

>>7144042
part 3

where is 1?

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>>7144823
>>7116238

here ya go anon.

No page 8 lads, get on top of it.

>>7145541
Not something we really need to worry too much about until it gets to page 10.

From time of last bump, currently it takes a thread on /d/ roughly 30 hours to drop off the board.

Now here's a thought, how does the slime dress interact with Deelette?

>>7145567
Here's a thought. Isn't the ball December 3rd to 4th? It's already the 4th. Where is this thing? I don't see it on any of the boards I should.

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Happy Winter Ball from /mlp/.

>>7145682
It's always been poorly presented. The planning is the only visible way to know it's going on.

>>7145802
Damn, /mlp/, what the shit are you doing?

>>7145810
Going insane because you and /x/ chose the most convoluted dresses to kill drawfags with.

>>7145802
>>No /toy/ on sight

Oh, well...

>>7147063
I can only handle so many people at a time. This is only the first page.

>>7147651

/d/emona is dissappointed that you can only handle 3 people at a time, anon...

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>>7147871

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>>7144042
Part Four and likely last one (at least for the "Getting ready for the ball" portion.)

Notes: A few people kept mentioning "Who is going to watch Dee?" so I had an idea. Do you remember the Addams Family Values movie where the Addams children run off a bunch of potential babysitters by being absolutely weird? I figure Deelette is like that, only with work-safe fetishes (like tickling or being tied up) which is half of what she's borne from. And all that tying up and turning into nagas or whatever drove off half the boards or random sitters that would baby-sit. That, and coiste bodhars are driven by Dullahans (I have actually done research on this; I'm kind of big on folklore) so I figure give the coach to /d/x/ and the dullahan is now Dee's sitter/victim and everything works out. Honestly, Demona's run out of choices so even with a faceful of blood she'll be like "Whatever, I wanna fuck people and Dee can handle it." I figure /x/ redid her make-up on the fly and the slime dress absorbed the blood on it.

>>7144090
>>7145567
As far as I know she's actually a work-safe OC since she was basically borne out of those /co/ threads about tickling or weight-gain or whatever-the-heck that wasn't exactly tits-out-porn but also wasn't exactly kosher for /co/. (Check out all her art on the shimmie -- it's 99% PG of her being a weirdo kid.) So she probably wouldn't be allowed to touch mommy's GOOD make-up or the dress. Nevermind loli-shota is not allowed on this board.

>>7145682
>>7145810
I wondered that myself but all it takes for a good 4chan ball is seed threads on the boards during the appointed date. You have to be careful with the OPs on some boards since the mods want to crush the ball whenever it happens, but done right it can be really fun. I was thinking I'd want to have it on Dec 17th weekend. Should be a right time.

>>7145802
I'm actually looking forward to seeing the rest of this!

Anyway, now on to drawing the kidnapping /toy/ and the wacky races!

>>7148390
>the mods want to crush the ball whenever it happens
But why?

>>7148414
Well, some mods that are board-specific (or is it janitors?) will see content that isn't 100% to-the-letter board content (that references the ball in the OP) and they delete it. I figure they think it's ripe for shitposting or for off-topic content, but the point of the ball is inter-board relations and exploration. Some board mods are more chill (as you can see by our thread here which has lasted most of a month.) It depends on the board. The slower boards like /po/ are more sensitive, I think.

>>7148390
Neat.
I'm just going to toss this out here now that /co/lette is probably busy fighting monsters and being a superhero to be there for this particular night. Though she might be the one to come back and relive the babysitter before /d/-tan gets back.
Just a suggestion if it actually goes that far.

As for Deelette's creation, she actually came about because there are years and years of history of /d/-tan fucking /co/lette and then one artist dared another to draw the logical progression.
I was actually in the stream of the artist who drew the first pic of Deelette as it was happening, so I kind of watched her be born.

/co/ has always has a pretty strong OC setting.

>>7148390
Loving these comics. Best drawfag we've had yet.

>>7148564
>>7148390

Yes, these are really good. Keep it up Slowtist-anon

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>>7145802
Page 2

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>>7149328
And 3

>>7149328
Huh, I did not see this turn of events coming.

>>7149641
Oh boy, time for dubstep. Well, that's what I associate gotta go fast with these days anyway.

I wonder what porn to dubstep would be like.

https://exhentai.org/g/382517/b0550f3243/

Didnt know /toy/ could be this...alike us?

>>7149641
I like where this is going

Wow are we fast today? not even 20 hours for page 10?

>>7120019
As much as they piss me off, we should try to seduce /pol/ away from /o/.

Total power play.

>>7151947
I mean, we had one or 2 "girls with maga hats" havnt we?

I stil like /dx/ though, (say it outloud)

>>7152103
For real though, fuck /x/. Why are we even going with them?

>>7152145

1 they are creepy like us

2. /dx/ = dicks....

3. succubi an demons

4. litterly a creepy waifu

5. Userbase doesnt cross too much i guess?

6. DIX dicks, i mean really, so good.

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>>7150867
Right now it's going through a wall.

>>7120075

We need more images of /d/-tan interacting with groups of other board tans.

>>7148390
This comic made me laugh.

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>>7152338

>>7153927
Maybe /x/ will bring him back as a zombie just to spite /pol/.

But anyway, the slime dress is able to begin its work?

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>>7153927

>>7155394

Every page has had me giggling, anon. Keep it up!

>>7155394
>/d/ being rude
>ever

>>7155692
Yea, being rude doesnt ever bring us close to screwing anyone...except maybe /pol/

>>7155856
/pol/ is always right.

>>7155913
/pol/ is always right on our dicks.

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>>7156468
Don't tempt me, /d/ baby.

>>>/qa/879308

Hell yea. Feel like the queen of silly.

>>7156896
Wait, the ball was on /qa/ the whole time?

>>7156903
.....Yes, that's where it takes place. The meta board.
But it hasn't finished yet.

>>7148419
Hey, Slowtist, you still lurking?

>>7158839
>>7158842
whadup /toy/, im sorry /Qa/non didnt like you and made you a car, but atleast it looks like a silly regal car

>>7158819
Yeah, I'm lurking. I check the threads every day, it's just I've just been taking a few days to recharge. Tried to help /cm/ and /qst/ get an outfit together for the ball because I don't think their boards have a lot of artists, oddly enough.

>>7158852
It's fine, most of /toy/ art autistic fucks who hate cross board events, but the few who do like it do like the recognition!

>>7159176
That's fine. Looking forward to /toy/'s entrance, but take your time.

>>7156922
It'll probably never finish.

>>7153200
Which tans would /d/ even interact with? Porn ones?

>>7159538
/d/ just rapes everyone equally, because she's full of love.

>>7120075
And fics are being written about the characters in this pic now.

Pre-weekend bump.

>>7160562
They're cute fics

>>7161998
Also not the first time some of they popped up

>>7161998
More are being made.

Also bump just to see if that comic will continue.

>>7166058
kind of hard to tell who is who. Maybe color will help, but i don't see /mlp/ anywhere. Mostly looking for her iconic horn and fedora but can't find it.

>>7166058
Can't find /f/

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>>7166087

No!
Stop page 10ing.
Bad, /d/!

>>7166058
>>7166463
This work is impressive.

Is the ball over yet?

>>7170046
Nope, I think we're making it last till new years.

>>7171537
Neat.

/m/ is making a lot of content lately.

I miss when there was more robot porn on /d/.

>>7173387
I remember when Ratbat used to post here.

>>7174368
this is good

Well this is the thread where the comics are being drawn.

So bumping that it might survive to a time after the holiday rush is over and prying eyes are off our drawfags so they can continue their work.

>>7174579
I remember when jet girls were allowed to be posted here.

Also bump.

>>7148390
The only reason I knew all that was I read Drradrra.
Still waiting for the day Celty does the blood thing on someone. But if I remember correctly, they do that if someone in the house is going to die. Or something...

>>7174368
/v/ should really update their tan, its out dated as fuck

>>7174368
Why are /tg/'s dice flesh colored?

>>7179985
Because they're dice mimics, Fine aberrations that disguise themselves as dice in order to burrow into a victim's hand and attempt a possession. They're a pretty low CR, though, so the Spot check to notice something's off (i.e., they're flesh colored) is pretty low.

Now, whether you have the Int not to pick them up in the first place is another matter entirely.

>>7180368
well, as they say "What you lack in INT, you make up with orifice diameter"

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1/2

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For >>>/m/15067219

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>>7157477
>/pol/ and /o/ going to the winterball
>/d/ wants nothing to do with /pol/

why doesn't /d/emona and /pol/ack go together, you know how fucked up it would be

>>7181127
I feel like every time /d/ and /pol/ interact it probably just devolves into arguing about how gay dickgirls are.

>>7181127
>why doesn't /d/emona and /pol/ack go together
because /pol/ is cancer. Plus the only things we have in common is that most people think we're gross. Meanwhile /d/ and /x/ fap to eachother

Breathe in

>>7120019
what happened to /d/mlp/? i havent been here much since /aco/
speaking of which whats our relationship with /aco/ if any?

>>7184845
As far as I know we do not like her, she does not like us that much, read: she is a theif of our content.

But alas, libidos are difficult to deal with and both us and her are large. So in the end we end up sharing some content.

/sci/ is the perfect fit for /d/

make our dreams reality with science

>>7184845
I'd like it if there was more angry sex between /d/ and /aco/.