Paul Kupperberg posted about Len Wein’s death on his Facebook.
I was trying to find an article to link, but it seems like people just found out so there's no writeup yet.
He's going to rightfully be given most credit for creating Swamp Thing and Wolverine, but for my money his biggest contributions were his work as a DC editor, his fantastic Detective Comics stories, and his often unacknowledged work on Perez's Wondie revamp.
Fucking hell. And not even 6 months after Bernie died.
Thankfully I am seeing a lot of people reference his time as editor for both DC and Marvel on twitter and on Facebook.
I'll admit that I only really knew him for his part in the creation for certain characters but I had no idea how many classic books and runs came out during his time as editor for both companies.
i know this is bait but i heard a kid say the same sorta shit when an elderly custodian at ym school died and everyone just piled up and beat the shit out of him. Western millenials are cancer.
Just a reminder: I forgave him for writing a Before Watchmen book, since he created Swamp Thing.
Did Moore actually say anything about that?
I'm still perplexed by the amount of somewhat appropriate talent attached to Before Watchmen. I mean most of those were big names who could have, and probably should have, said no to that travesty. I was expecting JT Krul's and the like.
A tribute to both Wein's original Swamp Thing stories and his House of Secrets in general.
I imagine it was solely a money thing for most people. You have a book that's not only guaranteed to sell in single issues but probably be reprinted for a very long time. Attaching your name to Watchmen is a good way to guarantee a steady royalty paycheck.
Also I'm sure some of the creators took a less cynical view and were just happy to get to to work on the beloved characters. Not everyone views Watchmen as a sacred cow that should never be expanded upon.
Famously he's made less money off of royalties for Wolverine than he has for Lucius Fox. DC's royalty program is so based.
>Not everyone views Watchmen as a sacred cow that should never be expanded upon.
most people are more mad on Moore's behalf because when Watchmen was created, tpbs weren't really a thing, and DC promised Moore&Gibbons that they would get ownership of the series if the book went out of print.
since then, DC has never allowed the book to go out of print, its also perennially one of DC's best selling books, 30 years later.
Not that it's a sacred cow, but that it's more like a creator owned work than a big 2 book and the creator was being kept away from it in some ways. So it's a bit weird to do quasi against Moore's wishes.
It's not like Kirby tributes where he knew damn well his work was owned and always entwined with the big 2.
The one good thing here is I now know what omni I'll be getting myself after my birthday-- Swamp Thing Bronze Age.
>DC will pay him tribute
>Marvel will not give a fuck until fans get angry enough
Yeah, not that I think that it SHOULD be touched, just that there's different views on the subject and not everyone who worked on BW saw it as a dick move.
>Azzarello's career is dead too
he went on to have a rather decent selling Wonder Woman series, and is currently doing an Image book with Eduardo Risso, and hes never really been a dude to have multiple books happening at a time any way.
how is his career dead?
>Straczynski... well, his career is dead.
JMS just went back to TV, he co-created Sense8 with the Wachowskis.
Moore had talked about doing either a Minutemen prequel or an actual sequel at some point. I can't recall if he nixed those ideas simply for not being good enough to pursue, or because of his problems with DC.
Yeah okay bud.
who would be able to make a good take on Watchmen? I can't think of a comic book writer that would be able to. Maybe if I think of novelists, but even there I would have a hard time finding someone
To be fair he left Marvel very angrily and the majority of his career was at DC.
Wein had some really good work on Spider-Man and Hulk and of course was key in rekajiggering X-Men but the bulk of his best work was definitely for DC.
reminder that Alan Moore wanted to use the original Charleston characters for Watchmen, but DC editorial realized that they wouldn't be usable after the events of the book, and convinced him to create the eventual cast.
anyone who complains about respecting Moore's "creations" needs to remember that he had no respect for the creations of others as evidenced that by and all his bullshit with Lost Girls and LoEG.
Cooke did a pretty serviceable job, even though his contribution was just "Golden Age heroes, but with a secret edgy tweest".
You'd have to have someone who not only had a great appreciation and knowledge of comics history but who was also well-read enough to understand how these characters and concepts look to an outsider. There really is just no one quite like Moore and Watchmen is a work that I think can only come from a guy like him.
>DC is pushing Swamp Thing a lot
>appears in Injustice
>Marvel killed the X-men books.
>literally killed Wolverine
>rip off versions of the character take his place.
>doesn't appear in the regualr rooster in Marvel vs Capcom Infinite
I agree with this mostly. Watchmen and Moore's circle logic about these things is perplexing. For all his talk about originality almost all of his major works revolve around riffing off of century old stories.
To be fair to the Charleston issue, I don't think he had a problem with that when editorial (Wein I guess?) wanted him to change it, but it was actually after that decision that he modified things even further. I think before that the Charleston Watchmen would have been rather watered down compared to what we got.
his influence was good on the show, the Wachowski's are what brought it down.
and the tranny was his idea, evidence of this is that Deleen in B5 was supposed to be a tranny but the voice didn't work so they kept her a girl from the start
>I think before that the Charleston Watchmen would have been rather watered down compared to what we got.
yea, he got to include all that rape after changing the characters.
wouldn't be a good Moore story without some rape
>I think before that the Charleston Watchmen would have been rather watered down compared to what we got.
Agreed, a big part of what makes Watchment so poignant is that it shows that you can only take these "serious superheroes" concepts to their logical extremes if you don't have to worry about a shared universe or brand protection.
I forgive Moore for his use of public domain and expy characters because it's something I have a fascination with as well. At his core he's just like any of the other ascended fanboys that got to write for their beloved Marvel or DC, just instead of Marvel and DC Moore is a fanboy for the entire canon of Western fiction.
Swampy and Abby have one of the best relationships in comics rip Lein
I don't like saying he took serious superheroes to a logical extreme. Not to THE logical extreme. The fact that about nobody had powers is the problem here. It's a real world with some oddities. It's not a full fledged Marvel or DC with dozens or hundreds of magical and scientific marvels zipping by.
Also making superheroes "real" as a de facto atmospheric choice is doofy to me. These things should be pulp, fantasy, space opera, and so forth. Anything at all times as the story demands. Experiment with the same cast and story. That's what makes big 2 comics fun. Style isn't set in stone.
Like most people I imagine, when I first read Moore's Swamp Thing I hadn't read the original stories, and this issue was my first exposure to it.
It was odd at first how different it was. But a brilliantly kind /co/mrade secret santa'd me the Roots of the Swamp Thing DC Comics Classics Library collection and instilled in me a love of the original form of Swampy.
How much got retconned for the new 52 anyway? For Swamp Thing or Animal Man they seem to be an odd mix of just being the next volumes picking up after Brightest Day, and being relaunches.
I'm very excited for that omnibus. I've never read Swamp Thing. It's one of my last major works to read.
I'm just a bit annoyed that the omnibus will end 3 issues before Moore's run starts.
IIRC some collections of Moore's run start with the first Bissette/Totleben issues of Pasko's run, maybe that's why they did that?
That's the modern way of collecting Moore.
Even then it's an issue or two off.
So I don't know. The omni got too big and the rest of that material would be in a Moore omni they're planning?
I love those expressive eyes on Wrightson's Swampy.
Actually just checked the Amazon page for it and the Bronze Age omni goes right up to issue #19, while Moore starts at #20. So maybe they changed it.
Oh wow maybe they did. Brilliant then. I'm just starting to get the Moore trades as I see them in preparation. Swamp Thing, Animal Man, and Hellblazer are my last Big two series to read.
I didn't read new 52 swamp thing but animal man was basically a continuation
Oh how I wish I could read those for the first time again. Swamp Thing and Animal Man were what got me through high school along with Doom Patrol and Sandman.
Animal Man had that vibe from what I saw. Swamp Thing I'm very unsure of. Both were clearly planned relaunches from Brightest Day before the new 52 fucked up all of DC. So I'm not sure what's been rebooted or continued from either.
Yeah I know it'll be a beast to get.
I keep an eye out for Barnes and Noble buy 2 get 1 free sales, use a few coupons, and buy factors of 3 at a time. Essentially something like half off when I'm done.
I'd be really thankful is we didn't clog the thread with a storytime.
>another one of your favorites die
Goddammit, i wanted to meet him
I think he is the creator of every new Giant Size X-Men mutant, including Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Thunderbird and Sunfire.
I dont know if he shares the creation title with Cockrum.
The companies current creative roster got their comic knowledge from movies, cartoons, and comics no older than 10 years old. They have no sense of the history of the medium.
that is you're problem not mine
the thing i'll remember most about len wein is how he used the villain holocaust survivor chimping out and trying to kill himself plotline twice within like six years of each other in batman as a writer and in x-men as an editor
>dad loved his swamp thing
>dad still has the issues of his batman run
fucking hell this one hurts like a truck, i remember reading this stuff when i was 8
Hey now true believers, I thought about maybe just seeing Joan again, but then I thought, what would she want? Joan is the one who told me to make character I'd like. Joan is the one who told me to write the heroes I wanted to write. Joan is the one who held Jack Kirby's wife down while I put it in her ass, Joan would want me to live! So I'm back and I'm hungry for souls True Believers! Excelsior!
>find out about Len
>go to /co/
Darwyn Cooke, despite being so loved within the industry, wasn't really that big a name (and wasn't really the old guard either). His biggest thing was New Frontier, which is reasonably popular but never really took off on the same scale as other popular limited series.
Wein, on the other hand, is one of the biggest names in comics.
One of the greatest capes of all time lost a father.
>tfw I genuinely liked his swamp thing
Even his new series was a fun read. I'll miss him.
Yeah, I don't have any pages by him on my phone.
Just cause you don't like Wolvie doesn't mean he's not one of the best. He's easily one of the most popular and definitely one of the most used in all of Marvel. Name me another Marvel character that is nearly as fleshed out as he is. Maybe Spider-Man and a couple Avengers but that's about it.
Yup. Poor Alec lost both of his dads this year
Goddamnit, this is some bullshit to hear after I read Swamp Thing, and then this happens.
or maybe Snikt?
Still, sad to see him go.
>If you don't care, why bother posting? Jackass.
Because they're sad little people and crave whatever little attention being assholes gets them. People who don't care but aren't pieces of shit just move on.
>Amanda Conner cannot draw pages anymore, only covers
She cannot handle the pressure of a 22 page schedule and never could. She made up some shit about carpal tunnel syndrome to get fans off her back. Lovely woman but she should have been honest with them.
Fuck, this honestly makes me sad.
F. The man was a fantastic writer and responsible for one of my favorite runs in comic history. He will be missed.
they'll give any old "literally who" cuck bitch a sticky nowadays.
>two stickies in under a month
>both are for complete pseudo-important bullshit
Boo hoo another """celebrity""" in an irrelevant industry died
Surely this is worth having a prolonged shitposting thread because that's special and totally not something that happens every day on here.
I know most of the "literally who lmao" posts are bait but the attitude people take to older comics and classic creators is so fucking sad. Nobody has any historical perspective anymore, all that matters is shit from this decade.
If you consider yourself a comics fan and honestly don't know who fucking Len Wein of all people is, who is not just a guy with a couple good works being propped up because he's dead, but a guy who actually is EXTREMELY important to the history of Marvel and especially DC, your reaction should probably be that maybe you need to fucking educate yourself.
Why is it that when it comes to pay tribute to one of the greatest creators in comics, the thread is slow and small, but when it comes to post the very worst the industry has to offer, the threads hit the limits in a few hours?
RIP Len Wein, you were too good for this shitty industry and their even shittier fans.
Swamp Thing served as Alan Moore's big break into the American market, had a movie adaptation starring Adrienne Barbeau and a sequel starring Heather Locklear, a live action TV show and a cartoon.
But that was mostly in the 80s, and you're 12.
I'm sure it's a lot older than TORtanic but that's when I noticed this entire site became solely about tearing everything down and circlejerking about how cool you are for hating shit. People are here to be part of the next EBIN FAIL, not to discuss good things.
DC did not forget about him, there were memorial pages in the floppies just like there were for bernie wrightson.
Its kinda shocking how short peoples memories are nowadays, Darwyns passing was a pretty big fuckin deal.
Mary Tyler Moore
George A. Romero
Hang out in a shelf thread... I know its posted as being about actual collections but its really just a good thread to talk about comics in general, I feel lost when it bumps off pg10 and doesn't come back for a couple days.
its the /co/ equivalent of a large study room with comfy couches and book shelves all around, ppl just shoot the shit.
This is so insanely fucking sad.
Was just about to bring up this mini, which I also haven't read, thanks preach.
I had just recently been reading about how Wein, Conway, Starlin, Englehart, Gerber, Wolfman, and more I'm forgetting were all such good friends in the 70's. They just loved making comics so much.
I'm not looking forward to getting to that age where your friends start dying off.
Shelf threads are the only threads on /co/ worth going into anymore if you want to actually talk about comics. Everything else devolves into political faggotry or memes, including JSA threads.
>Died at age 69