Do you think a lot of female characters these days are written

>>94239341

I think a lot of characters in general these days are poorly written

>>94239341
They are often

1) underdeveloped, receiving only shreds of a real character arc

2) immune to real consequences for their destructive decisions

3) hypocritical

or 4), in the case of a character like Korra, frustratingly mediocre and devoid of charm.

>>94239414
Yeah, that sounds about right.

>>94239409
This.

>>94239341
Don't you mean they're written realistically?

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>>94239341
Yes.

I get tired of characters being written as Mary Sues in a effort to create a "strong female character."

* She picks up a sword and is instantly better than other characters who have years of training and experience.
* Everyone instantly likes and trusts her, even if she just met them.
* Everybody sticks up for her when she gets in trouble, even if they have no real reason to.
* She gets away with things that other characters would be penalized for.
* She receives endless praise and attention, whether it's warranted or not.

It's much more interesting to see someone who shows real growth and who has a real character arc.

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>>94242701

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>>94242701
>I get tired of characters being written as Mary Sues in a effort to create a "strong female character."
Case in point
When did "being a cunt" translate to "being strong"?

>>94241212
A character that's well-written is not necessarily well-liked.
When a character that the audience is supposed to hate is poorly written, the audience usually just doesn't care about them.

And writing something "realistically" and "well" are very different things.

>>94242782
being assertive -> being strong
and
being assertive -> being a cunt

>>94242856
"Hey Ollie, fuck you for not telling me something I have no right to know about" is not being assertive - it's just being a cunt.
If the shoe had been on the other foot and Felishitty had been the one not telling Ollie about her illegitimate child to protect his life tumblr would still applaud her. She is the single greatest reason not to watch Arrow. I stopped watching about mid-season 4 and never looked back.

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>>94239341
The ongoing quest for "strong female role models" has lead to an unending stream of female characters who aren't treated like people, but as paragons of righteous virtue who can do no wrong.
Despite this, they are still consciously written as "flawed" in some way; these flaws are rarely addressed by the story, let alone noted by other characters, and more often than not are treated as something that the heroine should embrace.
But ultimately these flaws, left unchecked, prevent the character from even being an ideal, like a Golden Age hero who represents something greater than themselves, so we can look past their inhumanity to admire the lesson or story being told through them.

These characters remain flawed, but not in a human way; it is only their ugly disguise. And it disgusts us to see those around them be blind to their ugliness, for only the audience to see that the empress has no clothes.

A well-written female character has many of the same traits of a well-written male character in the same role.
They must be both flawed and humanized, and both of these dimensions of character depth are explored in ways tied to their purpose, both in the story and the narrative.

>>94242733
Finally, someone who realizes how much of a shitty mary-sue Connie is, SUfags would defend her to death because they get offended whenever someone criticizes their pajeet loli.

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>>94243129
You're crazy, everyone hates her.

t. SUfag

>>94239341
anyone have any "good" female charcters then?

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>>94243147

>>94243147

Several of the female characters on ATLA were well-written.

LOK is another story though...

>>94243160
She was really irritating when she first appeared, but they toned that down a lot over the course of the series.

>>94242701nobody in SU has real growth though.

>>94243140
really? the last time I tried to debate anyone on Connie not being a character, they would defend her lack of flaws and the ability to be the best at anything as "character development" when it clearly is not.

I always have to point out her off-screen "mastery" of swordsmanship when it took Pearl centuries to perfect it, how she's soooo much better at caring for Steven when he turned into a baby despite Greg being the actual parent here, and how Peridot and Lapis acted like total autists in the New Crystal Gems just so she preaches instead of Steven.

They'll still defend her anyway and post dozens of Steven x Connie fanart to hide the fact they have no counter-argument.

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>>94243147
These fuckups.

You know, I always liked the phrase, "If everywhere you go smells like dogshit, look under your shoe." Think about it /co/.

>>94243147
Star and Katara are very good female characters, I am honestly surprised no one tried to copy them and instead went with the "kickass tough girl who don't take no order" or the "quirky girly female who is too cute to do anything wrong" tropes.

>>94239414
>frustratingly mediocre and devoid of charm.
That's literally every female character ever made.

>>94243197

Katara is a good example of a character who is well-written but who isn't always likable and who isn't portrayed as infallible.

>>94243195
I'm writing the shitty female characters?

>>94243197
>I am honestly surprised no one tried to copy them
Probably because they're actually garbage.

This argument is pointless here because no matter what character you pic it'll be screamed at with MARY SUE.

At this point it's crying wolf for the "it's about ethics in storytelling" types and it has no actual merit. If everybody is a Mary Sue then nobody is.

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>>94243147

>>94243233
Please tell me this is an edit.
Please tell me that Bendis didn't actually find such a shitty way to try and shoehorn in this shitty "Ur never gonne be a scientist ur a black girl lol" shit in a post-Obama world. Please.

>>94243147
bubby from flapjack
sylvia from wander

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>>94243202
>>94239414
Helga was a pretty great character.

>>94243285
Everyone knows that "Mary Sue" just means "character the author likes more than me", anon.

>>94243233
Holly shit. That's bad, that's really bad

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>>94243288
I bet you're a bimbo fetishist,

>>94243195
how does that apply to the topic at hand?

>>94243233
Ugh

I remember that one anon who suggested that she would be much better as a girl living in an African village who watched the adventures and fights of Marvel superheroes on an old TV with her cousins and friends, and out of all the heroes, she looked up to Tony Stark the most.

Her village was under constant threat from a militia that occasionally killed or kidnapped members of her village to be one of their men, but no one in the village was brave enough to stand up or fight back. Until one day, the leader of the militia took two of her cousins as he was preparing to fight another militia over resources, and that's when she decided to build her own Iron Man armor out of junk and metal found around the village while studying from old engineering books she salvaged from different sources.

She'd fight the militia and barely win after surviving the leader who tried to destroy her with an RPG, and due to this success, her story was made internationally and Tony Stark heard of her endeavors, thus inspiring him to visit the girl and ask her if she could come with him to New York and be his apprentice.

>>94243326
we need more female characters like Kino.

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>>94243184
Don't fall for the Tumblr interlopers

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>>94243048

>>94243233
Im not even a capefan but holy shit
Yeah
Im happy i dont reed marvelshit

>>94243184
>Peridot and Lapis acted like total autists in the New Crystal Gems
To be fair they acted like total autists in Beta too, and Peridot was always an autistic shit
But I see almost pure hate for Connie around here too, guess you've been unlucky

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>>94239414
And 5) Actual good written female characters trapped in a bad show

>>94239341
Mabel is an extremely well-written character. Hyper-realistic, even.

>>94239341
Writers confusing "strong" for "immune to all criticism" and independant for "acting like a total asshole"

>>94242701
Tbh honest it all boils down to the fact that people like and resonante with underdogs, or at least grounded people.

Mary sues, and most females, are not that. They're super special, liked, and better than everyone without it being earned; thats more Gaston than Belle

>>94239341
They treat them almost alien like in writing. They are supposed to be normal people, not perfect robotic goody goodies. Even Mabel is a result of this. Good female characters come from being written like the guy ones. If the female joins in on a male adventure and they get good dialogue and have an arc they are immediately a better character than these "girl do no wrong, LOL, girl power, feminist power!" characters. Just write them as if they were a normal character or person, that's it. It's not that hard. If you can make a good guy character you can make a good girl character.

>>94244733
Except guys and girls are very different in real life.

>>94244744
Guess what cartoons aren't? Real life

>>94244829
Do you know what suspension of disbelief is?

>>94244744
They're really not.

>>94244849
They really are.

The ease with which girls can get guys compared to the reverse is the primary factor causing that, since it creates a huge gender dynamic imbalance. But there are also others.

There is no such thing as good female characters, you dimwits

>>94244887
You're talking shit mate, they're not different species. The amount of diversity and overlap between the genders in terms of personality/behaviour is fucking huge.

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>>94243147
Doi!

>>94244959
Given that not a day seems to go by without someone posting a question asking whether men and women are different species somewhere on the Internet, it looks like many people don't perceive it that way.

And I'm sorry to break it to you, but the overlap is much smaller than you think, and diversity in that sense doesn't really exist among women, definitely compared to men at least.

>>94243337
That....Would be fucking amazing to see

>>94244959
Not the guy, but you're not seeing the whole picture. We're not different species, but it's surprising how different the genders are. There's a documentary about a woman who tried to live as a man for a period of time, and she ended up being treated for depression. Women and men exist almost in completely different worlds.

>>94243147
horses

>>94244733
You say "alien" as if that's inherently bad. Realistic characters are boring and dull.

>>94245058
Well that's true. The lot of the them.

>>94245021
I can only speak from my personal experience I guess, but I've met many women who are very similar to me personality wise, and many men who couldn't be more different. That would suggest to me there is plenty of overlap.

>>94245036
I agree that there are differences, but I don't think they are as great as some people make them out to be.

>>94245141
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7kP_dd6LU&ab_channel=ChandraSekharF

I found the documentary. Check it out, see if you change your mind.

>>94245221
I've already seen it.

>>94244660
This.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBz0BTb83H8

>>94245221
I wonder what the result would have been if this experiment were conducted in Europe, say.

America is basically a land of sexual starvation for men, and undoubtedly that fact is influencing attitudes towards each gender.

>>94239414
Also they got no flaw.

>>94242782
Because being a cunt free from consequences or effort IS women's idea of being strong. Felicity is very popular among the female audience.

>>94245317
Me too. I live in New Zealand, and I think that might be part of the reason why I perceive things differently.

>>94245369
AFAIK New Zealand is one of the very few countries worse in that sense than the US. (Canada is another one.)

>>94245408
I'm talking just culturally, we're very different to the US.

>>94245447
Oh absolutely, but "different" does not necessarily imply "better", especially when only talking about one particular aspect of it.

I just don't understand why Westerners can't write good characters in general. Why must it be a good "female" character?

Why aren't there well written Mexican characters? Or elderly characters?

>>94245408
I was curious, so I found this article, and we're not quite as low as the US:
http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/poorest-list/the-10-least-sexually-active-countries/

>>94245472
I wasn't talking about that aspect in particular, I was meaning more generally.

>>94245518
>poll only 26 countries
>report 10 of them as ranked the lowest
This is why trust in polls is so low now.

>>94245516
>implying Easterners are better

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>>94242701
>She gets away with things that other characters would be penalized for.
This is why I ended up hating this bitch

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>As hopeless as any other recruit at the start; earned her place in the army through determination
>Doesn't have a "silly boys" attitude; actually befriends the other male recruits, has mutual respect for her commander, and joins the army partially out of love and respect for her father
Can we at least agree Mulan is a decent female character?

>>94245919
No. She is the great female character

>>94242782
Women don't really understand what leadership is, it's just not really their nature

They see a frustrated boss lash out periodically and say "guess that's it"

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You know how the Chinese got so butthurt about Kung Fu Panda? How they asked themselves "why didn't we make something as good as this?"? Well they already knew the answer, he'd be too perfect. The Chinese wouldn't be able to make Po without him being a boring, flawless, soulless paragon of Confucian virtue. To make the hero a bumbling oaf but with redeeming qualities would be anti-Chinese in their eyes. Kung Fu Panda created by the Chinese would have been like IP Man.

Western writers experience something similar with women. Their inherent biases, positive discrimination, and socio-political hangups keep them from doing their jobs and making a human being.

Like how everyone acknowledges Michael Clarke Duncan was a godly villain (Kingpin) but back during the original creation of the character at the height of the civil rights movement Kingpin was changed from a black man to a white one for fear of being racist by the liberal writers.

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>>94246183

that's why the only flawed women in media can be only animals.

Not a /co/ character but Rey pisses me off the most

And fucking normies will flock to her defense calling Luke a mary sue

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>>94246342

*the only flawed women in media are animals

>>94246380
Actually, almost any Hartman's women is flawed.
>Vicky
>Wanda
>Kitty
>Amanda

Danny Phantom was the only one without a woman suffering any slapstick

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>>94246342
>>94246380
>>94246512
>get slapstick = being a "flawed" character

>>94245919
Mulan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shit >>>>> Korra

>>94243184
>New Crystal Gems
I don't know what you have been doing that time, but that was a shit episode in general where everybody was shittily written. You have nothing to gain to use that ep to prove your point

>>94245919
She's still boring as shit.

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>>94243202
who hurt you?

>>94246909
Female characters' inability to be interesting.
When dull characters like Ripley, Sarah Connor or Clarice Starling are put on some sort of pedestal, maybe it's a sign that women are simply not interesting.

>>94246931
>>>/r9k/

>>94246991
>>>/lgbt/ with your shit taste

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I feel like nowadays writers are so terrified of the audience (or the vocal non-audience in a lot of cases) that they just don't want to risk writing an actually "human" female character.

>>94247114
I mean I don't see how that was a factor with stories like Gravity Falls and Korra, it seemed to just be a product of the writers' own incompetence and narcissism, respectively.

>>94243048
This.

If being a girl is a character trait then you already failed (unless you're trying to write an insipid character)

>>94239341
It kinda astounds me how many people genuinely believe Mabel was a well-written character.

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Well written character <----

>>94247396
I don't think the problem is Mabel but how the show treats and presents her. It wouldn't have been easy to forget that she initiated the apocalypse because of a petty action if the show didn't avoid addressing it afterwards.

>>94247534
I wonder why they had her be the one to do it if they were never going to address it after it happened.

I feel like if writers who aren't sure how to write female main characters would just write all of their main characters as men in the beginning and then went back later on and chose a handful of them to be redesigned as girls, without changing their core character in any dramatic way, this problem would disappear. Obviously measures would have to be taken in certain types of stories where gender plays a major role like romance or coming-of-age plots, but generally this technique would improve things.

But no, they don't do this because they don't actually care about making interesting characters, like most wealthy liberals their goal is some intangible social victory that makes them feel good without having to really do anything.

>>94246183
>back during the original creation of the character at the height of the civil rights movement Kingpin was changed from a black man to a white one for fear of being racist by the liberal writers

Source? According to wikipedia,
>[he] was created by writer Stan Lee and artist John Romita, Sr, who based his physical appearance on actor Sydney Greenstreet. [a fat white actor]

>>94247534
and that godawful dating episode.

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>>94243147
Paige also.

>>94247674
And that godawful bubble episode

>>94247727
>>94247727
I forgot how much I missed Tron Uprising

>>94242598
She can't even be considered written poorly when she isn't even written at all

>>94242701
Anon you didn't even have to say it.

We all know you're talking about Rey from The Force Awakens

>>94243147
The Original Powerpuff Girls (Also Miss Bellum and Ms Keane)

>>94247994
>The Original Powerpuff Girls
yeah now that you mention it, does anyone have any more examples of female characters who started out great and then eventually turned to shit? (in this case i mean the PPG in the reboot)

>>94245919
She's cool. Too bad Disney doesn't give a shit about her and the live-action movie will probably be watered down, "Progressive" crap.

I wonder if they really are gonna put black people in pre-Tang China.

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>>94248093
Garnet, Amethyst, Peridot, Lapis Lazuli

>>94248093
Nicole Watterson

>>94248317
How so? I haven't watched Gumball in a while

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>>94245000

>Bullies love interest for many years
>Holds hope he might love you one day

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>>94243048

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>>94243048
>And it disgusts us to see those around them be blind to their ugliness

>>94248333
She went from a strict but reasonable and friendly person to an abusive, angry bitch who is good at everything, has a lot of powers and can get away with everything. They even changed her backstory from "loser with a lot a bad luck and bad grades like Gumball" to "super martial artist with perfect grades ".

>>94248406
Helga is good because her concept is layered. The first layer is that the ironic joke that neighborhood tough, rude kid is a girl in a pink dress and bow instead of a boy. The second layer is another ironic joke that the tough girl who bullies the lead is actually in love with him and into doggerel poetry instead of the stereotypical stupidity and just doesn't let on because of elementary school kids lol. The third layer is the totally serious twist that all that stuff is actually because she's kind of fucked up because of her family and doesn't think anyone could love her which makes her aggressive and afraid to be honest.

>>94248333
Yet another mary sue

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>>94243202

Excuse me?!

>>94249061
ESPECIALLY that one.

OTGW was a complete mess overall, though.

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>>94249437

>>94249437
>OTGW was a complete mess overall, though.

Why's that?

>>94249588
He's not wrong. OtGW is very overrated, especially here

>>94249766
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you there, but I'm curious in hearing your reasons

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>>94249766

Oh yeah? How is that?

>>94239341
I really hope future cartoon writers, and writers in general, don't start using Mabel as a template.

>>94249958
Might be too late; look at Webby from the new Ducktales promo clips.

>>94249822
>>94249899
The story isn't really interesting. Characters are mostly annoying. A couple of episodes are unnecessary digressions, which is too much, considering the whole show is only ten segments long. The immersion and worldbuilding are ruined by the "It's just Halloween on normal Earth!" ending.
It feels like the creators were trying too hard to make something "artsy" and "deep".

>>94250134
>The immersion and worldbuilding are ruined by the "It's just Halloween on normal Earth!" ending.
Nigga wut

That was not an "it was all a dream" ending.

>>94250354
It does ruin some aspects of it. Like the protagonists being two lost orphans in a gloomy forest. And their attire is explained by something boringly mundane.
They got completely ripped out of that world.

>>94239341
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O0JvjKEuF4
This was written in relation to videogames but I do believe it applies here as well.

Some excerpts.
>The male party characters outnumbered female party characters in Inquisition two to one. I really can't blame Bioware for that, because what a developer does with a male character won't get them reamed out by Feminist Frequency. Female involvement in a game is necessary for Feminist Frequency's influential Tropes vs. Women series to criticize the game. If there are no tropes involving women in a game, there are no Tropes vs. Women in a game. Therefore, developers have much more freedom when creating male characters, because they're not under similar scrutiny. The Iron Bull runs around most of the game with no shirt and characters commenting on his man boobs. He's deliberately hyper-sexualized and self-objectifying. If he'd been a female character, "progressive" websites would have had Ser Pounce-A-Lot's kittens.

>this increased scrutiny of female characters has the potential to hurt female representation in gaming, notably survivors of trauma and women in stigmatized professions.

>And nuance is lost in the brand of call-out culture practiced by radicals like Feminist Frequency's followers.

>Unfortunately, our current "diversity" rhetoric is so loud and so vicious that it's shutting doors instead of opening them. Instead of approaching diversity as a business imperative, the focus is on hyperbolic criticism and personal attacks. No matter how good a game is, people will find the one nitpicky thing wrong with it and those are the headlines that end up grabbing attention. The criticism is no longer fair, because it's jumped from criticism of products to criticism of people. It's also jumped from the industry professionals that set trends to the consumers of games.

>This brand of feminism is encouraging video game companies to believe that telling human stories about certain types of women is a bad thing.

Basically. It's much more dangerous to do female characters wrong than male ones. So most creators don't even try and just play it safe with female characters if they even bother with female characters at all.

And it hurts female representation in fiction and media in general.

>>94243187
There's only one good character there

and it's not Star

>>94250498
Of course. There is the flip side to this. Female characters of which writers try to make statements with. But those characters tend to end up more as statements than they tend to end up as characters. So it usually doesn't end up all that amazing either.

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>>94250477
>Dragon Age: Inquisition
What a bad example. Almost all the characters in that game were poorly made and forgettable, male OR female.

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>>94250134

>The story isn't really interesting. Characters are mostly annoying.

It sounds like bait for me (image related).

>A couple of episodes are unnecessary digressions, which is too much, considering the whole show is only ten segments long.

This is dumb...

>It's just Halloween on normal Earth!

How can it ruin the world building? There is two worlds in OTGW universe... what's wrong here? But if you don't like this ending you are gonna be happy to know that the original ending (the one the author wanted) Wirt stay in the unknow and Greg return to their home without him.

>It feels like the creators were trying too hard to make something "artsy" and "deep".

Well they had success in this.

>>94250577
Good news, a diagnosis for you can be made: you have shit taste.

>>94250468

Wirt is an orphan of father.

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>>94250615

>>94250574
I wouldn't deny that. But there is still a rather sharp turn with the design behind the characters from original Dragon Age to Inquisition.

And it also illustrates the core of the problem quite well. Since Bioware themselves were prepping up Inquisition as being even more "progressive" and crap when they were marketing and talking about the game. But in the end, the end result is just a more reductivist and a much more narrow representation of female characters.

>>94242733
I kinda forgot that her nose is the length of half her head
plus it looks like she's got a receding hairline
who the fuck thought this was a good character design

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>>94250662
Piss off with your "Someone doesn't like something I like, it must be bait!" attitude.

>>94250697
You're right about that. I was fucking disgusted with that "progressiveness" dirt they pulled in the game. They put in a blatantly trans minor character. Normally, that would be fine. But NO, they gave you an option to ask Iron Bull a perfectly non-offensive question about him (how he was enlisted if women aren't allowed in the army). If you ask that, he goes out of his way to make you seem like a complete piece of shit for even noticing, and goes on a
>HURRR-DURRR I DON'T CARE WHAT HE HAS IN HIS PANTS AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU
rant. For fuck's sake, it's pathetic when an attempt at advocating political correctness has the opposite effect.

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>>94243197
>Star

Teen titans star?

When female characters are flawed and the story admits it, the fans say the character is unlikable.

When a female character is flawed and the story doesn't admit it fans get offended.

Even if a female character is competently written, some fans will cry Mary Sue.

Now that I think on it characters are always called Mary Sues regardless of gender or how they are written.

That being said, I think that writers should write female character how they want to because no matter how they write a female, someone will criticize them. This is the rule that should apply to all characters.

>>94243147
Ilana from SBT was pretty good. preachy, but I think that helped add some flaws to her character

practically everyone mentions Katara, but there were things that irked me with her. mainly how she's basically got Ichigo's fast power level increase with minimal training, even if it was supposed to be with a master. I like her personality, however
Azula, on the other hand, is a great charcter . flawed, fucked up, and insane to the point where there's clearly no redemption arc for her, but not without her own charm and sympathetic moments

>>94245919
Wow you just made me imagine what a modern day Mulan would be like.

>>94250632
Probably not even an orphan; just a child of divorced parents.

A lot of male writers either don't give their female characters flaws or don't hold them responsible for them due to subconsciously putting women on a pedestal.

I don't see it happen as much with female writers so long as they aren't extreme feminists, SU and horse show seem to avoid this problem.

>>94248406
>>94248721

I really like helga, she is funny but truth be said...

>Bullies love interest for many years
>Holds hope he might love you one day

He is right here. She is completely impractical and a normal guy will never like her back.

>>94250477
>Feminist Frequency's influential Tropes vs. Women

kek

>>94243197
Star is annoying as shit at her best, a mary sue at her worst. not even the parody mary sue they were going for

Katara, on the other hand, is well written in everything but her bending. she got maybe a week a month's time of practice with a scroll and she's able to be a somewhat credible threat to anyone but a master, then she gets maybe a month's training at best and she's suddenly a master? that's not even counting on how she's supposed to be the one able to take on Azula, a prodigy who's trained with masters for her entire life, one of the few able to wield lightning, on the day of Sozin's comet no less; and she's able to take her without using her most powerful moves

>>94251131
What makes her mary sue?

>>94251076
I don't understand the logistics behind it but teasing/bullying your love interest is a pretty common thing for kids to do.

>>94244299
There's a lot of mediocre/bad cartoons with pretty good villains, come to think of it

>>94244959

Not him, but... seriously... they are the same, they aren't different species but they are not identical neither... if you think that womens and mens are exactly the same thing then you are not old enough

>>94251028
>>94251131
Katara is a good character, I agree. My problem is that she was often annoying and the other characters didn't acknowledge that to the right extent.

>>94247534
I love how people try to act like just her not realizing she was starting the apocalypse was the worst thing when what she was knowingly doing was arguably monstrous

she was basically getting someone to completely freeze time around an area, arguably cutting them off from the rest of the world (if not universe) given how time works

>>94239341
how to make female character these days
>she can do everything
>she is cute
>she is crazy
>tell memes every 5 seconds
both Star and Mabel suffer of this.

>>94243160
really great character
Better than any E7 new character

>>94250908
Star Butterfly

>>94248298
let's be real, anon
the only one in that that started great was Lapis
the rest all started as shit and grew into bigger shit

>>94251262
At least Star suffers for her mistakes, and isn't entirely a selfish piece of shit.

>>94248406
reverse the genders and people will call it intimidation-based raep

>>94239341
They're all the same "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" character (generally female protagonists),

Star, Mabel, Wendy, Jackie, entire cast of Star vs the forces of evil, etc.

or

The "BADASS DON'T NEED NO MAN" mary-sue female

Connie, Pearl, Garnet--actually, the ENTIRE FEMALE CAST OF STEVEN UNIVERSE, Star (whenever the writers need her to act badass), Nicole Waterson, the nu-powerpuff girls, etc.

>>94243337
BRB, stealing this

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>>94251097
Well. It was still hip then. But that type of radical bullshit is still very rampant.
Like how Fire Emblem Fates had its ever living fuck censored out of it.

>>94245141

What's wrong with women being different of the men? Why is it bad?

>>94251260
That's sort of a problem a lot of people defending her don't seem to get. She didn't realize that she was starting the apocalypse, but it's not like what she was trying to do was at all excusable.

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>>94251263

>Star
>Good character

>>94250134
>>94250354
>>94250468
>>94250577
I'm the poster of >>94249437 and while I agree with a lot of those criticisms, I have to strongly disagree on the ending. It was a great concept that tied together so many things so neatly, and episode 10 was really great with how it wrapped things up in both universes.

It's a shame the previous 8 episodes couldn't meet that level of writing quality.

>>94247482
>she is a mercenary
>not a superhero shoe in
lets read gwenpool and see what all the fuzz is about it

>>94243197
>>94243219
>>94251131
>>94251144
>>94251258
Star is a worse-written character because the show she's in is quite bad, but Katara is far more of a Mary Sue.

>>94251354
Better than Mabel

>>94251028
Ilana is kinda-sorta passably decent as a character, but SBT is such a terrible show that it doesn't matter.

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>>94250889

>Good news, a diagnosis for you can be made: you have shit taste.

You are sending it to the wrong person. I laugh of this guy because he has this attitude "He likes something that I don't like, shit taste".

>>94251354
What's wrong with her?

>>94251410
Why's the show bad?

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>>94251440

>>94251144
>is the best at magic since evil magical genius ancestor
>never has to work at spells, but can do complex magic that is above her mother
>is a complete dick to her parents and breaks the rules they give her, but they really don't do any kind of punishment until they've got no other choice because it's too dangerous for her
and now that it looks like she & Marco are going to end up together
>main love interest is literally dumping the girl of his life long dreams because he loves me so much
of course that's only if Starco is canon

>>94250134
all the show happen in the fucking limbo
that is why at the end they show them both alive
It was a fantastic homage of Dante's work

>>94251440
what's bad about SBT?
I liked it

>>94251601
Even Wendy?

>>94251582
both are pretty poorly written

>>94251601
This fucking guy again

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>>94243147
Sure. Moon's basically a Disney princess deconstruction done very right as there's a lot less edge and a lot more nuance. And then, "How do you top a childhood of horror, compromise, and hardship," you might ask? Why by giving her a brat like Star for a daughter.

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>>94251650
young moon is top-tier waifu material

>>94250697
Vivian got a pass from me if only because she was a fucking cunt to sera and I hated sera most of all. Cole and cullen were good. The two white human males were the only good characters. The irony was great. Too bad I couldn't fuck either of them.

But yeah it was very different because EA eat them and the original founders took the money and left and the writers either jumped ship or got fired. That's why there is a noticeable dip.

>>94251650
She got to see both her mother and daughter die. That's a rare treat.

>>94251687
Isn't Greywall a white human male, too?

>>94251601
Care to elaborate?

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>>94243147
Flame Princess was pretty great in her OGN. Beyond rescuing "her man," it was also about confronting herself: Is she Good? Evil? Heroic? Selfish? Is she capable of change? Does she want to? The ending of Playing with Fire really stands out as the definitive Flame Princess moment that encapsulates all of the above.

>>94251749
Why and how are they underwater? Why does it look like that scene from Cube 4?

>>94251616
What was that post before it got deleted?

>>94251557
Here are my original thoughts on SBT, enjoy anon: https://yuki.la/co/92822395

>>94251785
same as >>94251601

>>94251797
That one was also deleted.

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>>94251726
And she had to pretty much do every awful thing a typical heroic princess shouldn't do and in the end, it barely helped at all.

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>>94251775
It's a metaphor:

http://readcomicbooksonline.net/reader/Adventure_Time_Playing_With_Fire/Adventure_Time_Playing_With_Fire

Also, FP is kind of an arrogant, reckless jerk.

>>94251790
They didn't think they could be followed to Earth. If they left, monsters would continue to be sent there, but there would be no one to protect the planet. They were morally correct.

>>94251808
>>94251790
basically a post saying that GF had better writing than SV
and, granted, I like some of the writing in GF. hell, everything up til season 2b and even some of season 2b was great
but 2b is arguably what ruins it for me

>>94251539
>is the best at magic since evil magical genius ancestor
Baby explicitly states that Star is not "good" at magic, and is instead just insanely strong magically.
>never has to work at spells, but can do complex magic that is above her mother
When did this happen?
Several episodes rake Star over the Coals for not bothering to study her magic.
as for her rebellious nature I can't counter you but it seems to alternate between being a good and a bad thing depending on the episode.

>>94251880
Read through the thread, I addressed that stuff there. But in short: no, they had other options.

>>94239341
So are girls with cartoonishly long hair always either bland or a total cunt?

>>94251893
>When did this happen?
literally both the Baby episode where she apparently does "Perfect" magic and the episode where she's able to do magic without her wand before her mother ever could

>>94251882
Let me guess, you hate Mabel in part 2 of the finale, even though she addressed her actions at the end?

Or you hate Roadside Attraction, even though it showed that Dipper always had (and continues to have!) the potential to be a player?

You 2b haters are so predictable.

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>>94251320
>The "BADASS DON'T NEED NO MAN" mary-sue female
I too complain about shows I don't watch

>>94251930
Dunno, but girls without long hair are always radical feminists, or at least it seems that way where I live. So better stay on the safer side.

>>94251966
I personally didn't care for the entire show as a whole.

>>94251966
Mabel literally never developed as a character throughout the entire run of the fucking show.
Accept reality Mabelfag!

>>94251907
That thread is just 1 autist spazing out and giving poor "arguments". It's not at all addressed.

>>94251320
But Mabel isn't an MPDG, if only because she fails the "dream" part of it.

>>94252016
>accepted that Dipper had to choose his own path
>accepted that she was being crazy and had to get back to reality (both literally and otherwise)
>never developed as a character

A huge chunk of the finale, particularly part 2, was all about her development. You guys seem so blinded by your hate for her to realize that.

>>94251966
I hate Mabel practically all around because she's kinda annoying, but even though they address her shit she never really tries to better herself
I don't hate Roadside Attraction, but I think it could have been done at a better time. especially with how few episodes they had left

my big problem with 2b is how the pacing just feels off and how they don't really touch on certain plot points until the very end or just completely reverse character arcs. why couldn't we have an episode of McGucket meeting Stanford after all these years instead of 5 seconds of dialogue? did we need an entire episode of D&D? why does Pacifica vanish from the plot until the end of it and why is she a bitch again? why are her parents the ones that have to talk her into saving the world?

>>94252047
Yeah, she's a Manic Pixie Nightmare Girl

>>94251950
Star is written as a prodigy in magic but she still struggles. It's not bad writing.

>>94252044
That's me you dickhead.
And I addressed all the shitty counterpoints predictable anons brought up there.

>>94252090
She also replaced her brother and never once apologized for it.

Also, you're not excused from apologizing or feeling bad about ruining everything just because it was an accident

>>94243337
Shame the first Batwing didn't work out.

>>94252109
it's very bad writing

apparently she's able to make up entire spells except for when the plot says she can't

>>94252098
Pacifica got a bit fucked over in the finale, I'll give you that. But I'm not sure how they could give more screentime to the McGucket-Stanford reunion without it seriously distracting from the show, and even if they could it would be almost impossible to write well. As short as it was, the scene we got was quite emotional.

D&D I just flat-out disagree on. That was my favorite standalone episode in 2b for sure, and I generally dislike anything related to that game.

>>94252090
>Dipper is free to choose if he chooses what I want for him
>eh, I guess my friends and family that I was so upset for not going to my birthday party are important enough to leave imaginationland for
you're right, anon. she developed into a worse character

>>94252160
When does this happen? The only times I can recall that her improvising doesn't work was after she started working with a defective wand that couldn't handle her usual outbursts.

>>94242701
Eh, that's more of a protagonist or cool character thing.

>>94252124
Oh yeah, forgot about that. But I always thought it was something created by the bubble from her thoughts, not exactly something she could control.

The thing about bringing up what Mabel did, though, is that not only would it be repetitive in light of Stan and Ford's character arc in the finale, it would seriously interfere with it. Remember how Stan and Ford talked about how Dipper and Mabel managed to get along so well even though they were so different, and they couldn't?

(And of course if Mabel admitted it after the day had already been saved it would lose almost all emotional impact.)

>>94252191
>the scene we got was quite emotional
what emotion? all we got was a stupid line that really doesn't make any sense. hell, the line he used made it sound like he was still using the memory gun

an entire episode to reconcile McGucket and Stanford's character arc could be written well. hell, it could probably be the emotional highpoint of the entire series and Ford seeing just what kind of effect he's had on the people around him because McGucket's entire problem was all caused by him, but we never got that

>>94252292
>not only would it be repetitive in light of Stan and Ford's character arc in the finale

Didn't the writers have a hardon for parallels between the two sets of twins, though?

>>94243147
Candace Flynn is basically the protagonist of the show.

She drives the plot, she's usually the one who has to overcome adversary, she's the one who learns to gain confidence in herself etc.

>>94252101
I chuckled at this, but no she's a great character.
What I actually meant was that she wasn't any guy's dream, all of her romantic attempts failed.

>>94252224
it was blatantly stated that practically every spell she uses is made up by her in the episode where Ludo's training to use his wand

>>94239341
I've seen characters with less than 20 minutes of screen time who got better character arcs than Mabel got in more than 800 minutes

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>>94251539
>is the best at magic since evil magical genius ancestor
She's not "the best," she has the most potential.
Even if her powerlevel is higher than her mother's, she's almost completely unskilled and just feels her way through everything.
>never has to work at spells
Star not working enough at her spells almost gets her recalled to Mewni and her lack of skill/control has completely screwed her over many times. Most notably in "Bon Bon", where she loses control of a spell and it almost kills her instead of Ludo, which directly causes Toffee's total victory over the course of the rest of the season.
More importantly she's learning her lesson and trying to get better. After she fails to perform a simple levitation spell in "Baby" because she never learned the technique and her nerves got the better of her, we see in the very next episode that she's practicing levitation on her own and has perfected it later in the season.
>but can do complex magic that is above her mother
Is every hero who's more talented than their parents were a "mary sue"?
Star is capable of great feats of magic but again, because she's undisciplined, she cannot do them reliably at all.
It's strange to complain about this in a show like Star Vs which is increasingly more of a drama than a show about powerlevels or fighting.
The biggest consequence of Star's power is that she's often overconfident which leads to her getting herself in over her head.
>is a complete dick to her parents and breaks the rules they give her, but they really don't do any kind of punishment until they've got no other choice because it's too dangerous for her
What is this even saying?
Star is a teenager who doesn't always listen to her parents.
Again, this is an area where she's improving. She's asked her mother's advice several times now and can recognize when a problem is too big for her to handle alone.

Moon and River are people too. They are not always right and have their own serious flaws.
Is that bad writing?

>>94252312
Sure, but doing both sides of that parallel in the finale? Would be quite repetitive, and also take even more screentime away from characters like Pacifica, who got screwed over as is.

>>94252331
I know it is. I asked in which occasions her abilities to improvise spells is nullified by the plot in any way that doesn't make sense?

Frankly, Star breaking expectations and being exceptionally good at magic is an exciting part of the show.

>>94245919
Mulan has by far the strongest character arc (except for maybe Moana, need to stew on that one a little more).

Her whole journey is being caught between the dichotomy of extreme femininity which she doesn't fit, and extreme masculinity which also fails her. The arc closes when she accepts her place in between those two ideals and forms her own identity.

>>94252370
I'd say that satisfying character development is more important for a character we've known for 40 episodes than a character we've known for 6

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>>94252423

>>94252403
>than a character we've known for 6
Which is also a bit of a problem, I suppose. But I digress.

Regardless, though I can see how adding some self-reflection to Mabel's character could have helped, I don't think bringing up that specific incident would have been a great idea.

>>94251014
This.
While I honestly agree that too many female characters are written as ideals or rolemodels, if we start seeing a trend in anti-heroine or flawed female characters /co/ will start whining how none of them pure waifu material anymore and are teaching young girls bad morals or some bullshit.

>>94251014
>>94252499
Well, you could always be like that one anon who just says female characters are terrible.

>>94243187
I wonder if the show would still be as well liked if Star had a British accent like her mother, only it was an obnoxiously Cockney one.

>>94252534
I'd like it

>>94252440
Why do posts in this thread keep getting deleted?

I know this is anime but but I thought the mc from Watamote is a great example of a female cartoon character done right.

How to fix female characters? idk, have shreds of introspection and constructive self-criticism. Don't be a preachy propaganda piece. Play feminine characteristics straight and positively.

>>94252659
Dunno about that one, but I deleted two of mine, so it wasn't the mods that time.

>>94252689
would a tomboy character learning to like being more feminine make for a good character arc?

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>"Enough Mary Sues, we want real, flawed characters who grow and change!"
>Okay, here's a character with flaws.
>"Wow I don't love her she's shit how can anyone defend this garbage"
>Sir it's the first episode and we have at least two more seasons, can't you give her a chance
>"SHIIIIT"
This is part of the problem

Japan has way more flawless and boring male characters than flawless and boring female characters. LN adaptions love their Gary Stus.

>>94245058
This x 100.

>>94252754
That's because feminism hasn't run rampant in Japan like it has in America, leaving men sex-starved and desperate for female approval.

>>94252782
Men in Japan aren't interested in sex or relationships because they're afraid of commitment. They emasculated themselves, bro.

>>94252718
Good? Probably.

Would 99% of /co/ love it? Almost certainly.

>>94251749
I think AT actually has pretty good female chars on the whole, except for maybe Flame Princess (sadly, I loved Playing With Fire a lot too) as she's just kind of boring and shows up too little. Marceline and Bubblegum are good even if their lesbianism is whatever and there's lots of decent secondary and one shot characters that are chicks and are interesting and cool.
I love Lady Rainicorn in particular. She's nice.

>>94252801
>because they're afraid of commitment
No, it's because they can think with the right head.

While American beta orbiters do everything they can to please bitchy modern girls and still end up getting nowhere, all while those girls gain the various benefits of said orbiting.

>>94252754
That's more an issue of whether or not a story is focused on the protagonist, rather than the world and characters around them.
If the "hero" was always intended to just the audience's eyes and ears, of course they won't be as developed.

>>94242733

Connie wasn't instantly a master with the sword. She has been constantly training.

>>94252923
I don't watch SU but how did they justify a regular young human girl mastering swordplay against ancient warriors with a weapon bigger than her?
Like how long is "constantly" training? A month?

>>94251262
I don't think Star tells a single fucking meme, the hell are you talking about

>>94252977
>I don't watch SU but how did they justify a regular young human girl mastering swordplay against ancient warriors with a weapon bigger than her?

So far she has mostly fought brainless monsters. And the sword is magical, so it could be lighter than it looks.

>>94245727
What does Nicole get away with?

>>94252754
Yeah but they aren't as irritating because they're more like a dead and soulless husk I can insert into

>>94252834
Bubblegum is arguably one of the worst characters on the show for the simple fact that no one really ever calls her on her bullshit except for like twice
the only times I really think anyone did it were the episodes where Flame Princess did it and the first one with King of Ooo, but both of those more or less treated her as in the right

given some of the fucked up shit she does, she could arguably be a good character, but she really doesn't

Marceline, on the other hand, I couldn't really tell much about. I thought that the whole mini series vampire thing was poorly done with the whole "I'm a vampire again, even though I made such a big deal about not being one" shit at the end. also thought that they harp too much on the daddy issues, but that's probably sucrose's fault

>>94253082
Her fighting off Topaz wasn't justified. And the Sword isn't magical, it was forged.

>>94253082
so I can, with like 2 months of training and cloud's buster sword, slay 10-foot monsters? at age 12?
at least with Steven, he's got the "alien superhuman strength" excuse

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>>94251419

...Touche... (You beat me there)

>>94253121
>where Flame Princess did it and the first one with King of Ooo, but both of those more or less treated her as in the right
Watch those episodes again man, she is treated as being a horrible person in the FP one and a lunatic in the KoO one, it's just that the show doesn't punish her as much as it punished Finn for his stuff. But she does still have her flaws and suffers for them, like when she lost her people because of her own mistakes and has to better herself because of it and that shit.

Marceline's worst offense is at this point she's just a bit one note. It's always the same dance with PB and Ice King or whatever. The stuff with Stakes was fine to me because even though nothing changed the show kind of covers its own ass with that by making the whole "everything stays" shtick much more of a consistent message the show is still building on instead of only using it for a status quo.
Plus Marcy hasn't been daddy issues for a while, she's more gal pal issues bait now.

>>94253130
>And the Sword isn't magical, it was forged.

It was forged by a magical space lesbian. It's obviously not a regular sword.

>>94253198
I'm genuinely not sure whether or not you're being sarcastic

>>94253215
Ah sure. And the cookies Garnet made were teeming with magical energy.

>>94253211
i'll take your word for it. i haven't really watched much since maybe the first finn/huntress wizard episode. somewhere around there (I did watch the stakes mini series, but that's what made me lose any interest I had left)

and as for PB being in the right, I think it's more that later episodes treated her like that. if it was just the first KoO thing, I'd agree with you, but the writers feel the need to drive home how much of a piece of shit he is with later appearances, even though he came off as just a kinda creepy, but not as bad as PB at her worst

the FP one, on the other hand, never really drove home how she more or less manipulated someone in love with her to basically put a chokehold on a kingdom, destroy their means of existing beyond that point, in any meaningful way from what i've seen. maybe it treated her as in the wrong, but this goes to nearly genocidal territory in that episode. hell, that would be a good episode to prelude FP declaring war on the candy kingdom

>>94252977
>Like how long is "constantly" training? A month?

Who knows? Time is kinda weird in SU. In the leaked promos Connie looks older, but I can't tell if it's a time skip or just animators messing up with the characters sizes again.

>>94253408
given what they've shat out, probably the latter

>>94253397
KoO was made into a much bigger piece of shit than he seemed, but I don't really think that's the writers trying to pain PB as better in his first episode, because she still imprisoned everyone else present at the wedding (including fucking Finn and Jake man).

The FP one tries to paint her as being justifiable a little bit, because FP's brother was a war hawk who wanted to attack the Candy Kingdom, but she was endangering the lives of innocent citizens who weren't involved and did so all before FP decided to even attack the Candy Kingdom.
FP really would have had good cause to attack then, but she was content with telling PB to fuck off after chewing her out.
That episode did show PB in the wrong to the extent that it started her on her mini redemption arc, where she stopped spying on people, started having more faith in her citizens, and learned how to relax more. So it's not as bad as Finn's shit after he fucked up FP but she still felt guilt from it.

Sorry you're not into the show anymore man.

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>good perfect characters don't exi-

>>94251056

Nah, his father is dead this is clear when you hear "Sara Tapes".

>" In the extra content we discover that Wirt father is dead and it seems like Wirt was real close to him. It seems that he inherited his tape recorder and apparently Wirt enjoys the poetry because his father liked this, with this we know that they were very attached (he use the voice of his father like an example of beautiful things but says that it's something melancholic).

>It seems that his father died at some point in his childhood, but Wirt remembers him quite well which means that he lived long enough to leave a mark on the child. With this hint you can discover the rest of his background. [...]"

>"He said that his mother got remarried, but remarried. Although this word is popularly used to refer to a divorced person the meaning of the word itself is only "marry again or for a second time"

>"It can be used in a sentence to refer to a person who has become widowed and has married another person.

>Here is an example of the dictionary: "Her mother died in childbirth, and her father remarried when she was a baby."

>In the case of Wirt's father, the extra content implies that he has died because of the way Wirt expresses himself."

>>94253586
Who?

>>94253638
Diana from Little Witch Academia.

>>94251148

But your love interest will never like you back because you act like a complete jerk when you are around him. It's not practical and if you are lucky he will not hate you in the future.

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>>94253638
The TV version of Diana from Little Witch Academia.

>>94253662
>>94253687
Oh, cool. Planning on watching it, because it's related to Steven Universe (will watch the dub)

Yes I do

>>94243147
Most of the main cast in MLP if you can get over it being MLP.

>>94251477

>"Star vs The forces of Evil is disney shit. It's just another teens program that talks about teenage romances with a strong and independent female protagonist to appeal to girls, a sidekick who can't help but stumble or hit himself with everything because it's "funny" (it reminds me a lot of Kim Possible), and the most cliche of all the romantic plots."

>Star is Disney saying "the classic princesses are bad and they are trash" but at the same time they continue to earn money by selling that "trash" in lines of toys and films. It's message is hypocritical.

>And the first season was boring, cliche, with a pathetic villain who was beaten every week, with a stupid protagonist, and the same stupid messages that disney has always sold "-It's very hard to be good" -It's because it's not what You really are. " (It's hard so do not try, people should accept you just the way you are).

>In summary Star is a series for teenagers, completely commercial and with nothing new that sets it apart from any other series for teenage girls that has been seen before, is a series directed at teenage girls.

>Marco is fun at times.

Kinda like it... but I like Hekapoo (I don't remember how write it), she is very funny. But Star... is a souless character.

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>>94253918
What shitty reddit post did you copy this from

>>94244887
MRA detected. Men/Women really aren't that different psychologically, the differences in behavior occur due to environmental factors.

>>94253998
That's literally what that post said, dumbass. Try to keep up.

>>94252834

AT had a very good set of females characters, sadly Phoebe is kinda like Lapis Lazuli, wasted potential and Marceline and Bubblegum are...

>Marceline and Bubblegum are good even if their lesbianism

This is what kill them, because their episodes are very centralized in them being lesbians or "acting" like lesbians and if someone don't care about they being lesbians they become really boring.

Truth be say I miss when Marceline spent time with Finn and Jake making jokes, hanging around, going for adventures. Now is "Here is Marceline we need show her being close with Bubblegum".

>>94253959
>Marco will be a cuck

Funny how things change, huh?

>>94253959

I found it in desuarchive. >>92395690

I am new using this >

>>94253736
>because it's related to Steven Universe
how?

>>94254179
The main animator is a SU fan and even worked on SU itself. The final episode has a cameo by Rebecca and Ian.

>>94254255
thanks for the warning
i know what i'm avoiding

>>94254073
No it isn't. He is blaming a single factor, when in reality it is a significantly large number.

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>>94254075
>Phoebe is kinda like Lapis Lazuli

>>94254293
>is the primary factor causing that
>But there are also others.
>He is blaming a single factor
???

And the factor in question is environmental anyways.

>>94251739
Yes, huh all the white dudes were straight. bioware is king of diversity.

>>94254255
>The main animator is a SU fan and even worked on SU itself. The final episode has a cameo by Rebecca and Ian.

What, seriously?
Can you explain more in depth please?

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>female character acts like a bitch
>another character slaps their face and blows them the fuck out

When's the last time this happened?

>>94253611
This is very awkwardly written.

>>94254315
>it's everyone else's fault women act like catty bitches
sure.

>>94252977
Well they explicitly have a training episode. But it's the kind of thing they can't really show more than once without it getting repetitive. Just like real training.

It bothers me so much when every female character is just a shallow bitch.
>male character lies to protect love interest, tells her afterwards, and apologizes and explains why
>omg how could you lie to me I thought I could trust you I'm breaking up with you reeee

>>94254385

never.

>>94254315
>primary factor
That is what you are missing. There is no primary factor; there are however a significant number of different environmental factors that influence people's behavior.

You can't just assert that women behave in a certain way because its easier for them to get dates. You can say with equal legitimacy that there are a number of external factors which make it easier for women to get a date instead and those external factors are also responsible for how men and women behave.

>>94254075
I feel like FP is at least better than Lapis.
FP has been in some decently interesting episodes and contributed well in them, while Lapis had a phenomenal introduction then was boring and whiny in every other appearance. Lapis has had more episodes but it a worse character.

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>>94253918
>It's just another teens program that talks about teenage romances
This is an idiotic criticism of almost any show it gets thrown at. Of course teenagers in high school are going to find other teenagers in their high school attractive.
Out of the 70-something episodes of the show so far only around 4 have used romantic drama as a major plot element. Even then it's not the focus of the story at all, to the point where despite Season 2 ending on a major cliffhanger regarding the show's love triangle, the romance hasn't even been mentioned yet seven episodes into Season 3 because there's a lot more interesting and important things going on.

>a strong and independent female protagonist to appeal to girls
Star WANTS to be a "strong, independent warrior princess" but she is NOT, yet. That is the whole point of her character arc. To become a stronger person she has to be put through a lot of shit to help her mature and teach her responsibility. And she NEEDS the support of her friends and family, especially Marco.
Star's mother was forced to be a "strong, independent warrior princess" without anyone to really support her, and it broke her.

>a sidekick who can't help but stumble or hit himself with everything because it's "funny"
Complete bullshit.

>Star is Disney saying "the classic princesses are bad and they are trash"
Disney did not come up with Star.
Star hates the "princess classic" concept because it completely goes against her personality, and she wants to be Queen her own way instead just putting on a face for her people.
"Face the Music" was all about why that doesn't really work.

>the first season was boring, cliche, with a pathetic villain who was beaten every week
A villain who was overthrown by a more competent villain, then did a complete turnaround next season to become one of the show's most developed and compelling characters.

>It's hard so do not try
At this point it could not be more obvious that this person has not watched Star.

>>94254589
You can also say the sky is blue, but nobody will listen or care, Captain Obvious. 4chan is supposed to be for substantive discussion.

>>94254451
Oh no, don't think for a second I'm excusing female behavior, but OTOH if you think for a second that men wouldn't take advantage of a hypothetical reversed situation, you're a fool.

>>94254739
Does substantive discussion involve circlejerking about how you guys can't get a date?

>>94254367
Not that anon, but a key animator in Trigger actually likes SU, he even worked as guest animator for a key scene.

I'm a Gainaxfag and thus a TRIGGERfag the guy is godlike in animation, although his taste in cartoons isn't that great if he enjoys SU, it should be acknowledged that a bunch of people at studio TRIGGER are confirmed westaboos.

TRIGGER does have some great talent in their doors even if they choose to be a meme studio from time to time.

>>94254367
Takafumi Hori is the main animator on LWA. He animated a lot of big and important scenes. He is a big fan of Steven Universe and even participated as guest animator in an episode of SU. In the final episode, they added a cameo of Sugar and Ian

>>94254717
we get it, anon
you wanna suck the creator's dick. don't know how, it's a woman iirc

>>94254781
Well it's certainly more substantive than your feminist refrain of "well there are many factors, people are complex hurr durr".

>>94251539
Her flaw is autism. Her "quirkiness" is in fact autism which goes undiagnosed because people think it's just because of her different background when her behavoir was actually unacceptable where she's from and her parents eventually sent her away because they couldn't handle being potato wranglers.

>>94254827
Autism to that degree basically doesn't exist in girls though, or rather it's a non-factor unless it's really extreme.

>>94254589
>You can't just assert that

>There is no primary factor
Sounds like you're making an assertion there...

>>94254827
can someone shoop her into CWC colors? please

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>>94254803
There are plenty of valid criticisms of SVTFOE, I don't know why people need to make up bullshit like "Marco is a generic idiot beta" or "Star just succeeds at everything without trying"

They could easily just say things like "the show wasted a lot of fucking time on the stupid karate episodes that went nowhere" or "for a character that's basically a co-protagonist, Marco really hasn't had much meaningful character development compared to the leaps and bounds made by Star, Ludo, Moon, or even Glossaryck and Buff Frog"
But I guess that would require them actually watching the show

Marco might actually have less flaws than Star, to be honest. Star has OP abilities but she has a lot of personality flaws and has fucked up repeatedly due to her personality. Marco's only flaw is being a human involved with magical beings.

>>94254810
Oh, I see. As I said earlier, MRA confirmed. I demonstrated why asserting "women getting dates more easily" was a bad argument. What you fail to consider is that many of the issues MRA's have are really due to the same problems that feminists actually fight. Feminists are the ones trying to change gender norms so men/women can be more equal (this involves removing benevolent sexism). Ironically enough, its predominantly MRAs who decry this as "SJWism."

>>94254949
>Star just succeeds at everything without trying
even though she does
>that would require them actually watching the show
why would anyone want to watch shit just to confirm it's shit

>>94243233

I thought that was kind of funny, actually. Like, kind of making fun of the whole "women are oppressed" narrative everything else wants to push. This one was like, "No, actually, girls, you're already equal, why are you still bitching about it?"

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>>94254794
Is this the one? It's just the lighting that makes Ian look white here, right?

>>94254904
You mistunderstand what I wrote then. You can't assert that a single factor causes as many behaviors as what he was suggesting: behavior is influenced by a wide variety of different reasons, to the point where similar behavior can be caused by entirely different factors.

>>94243197

Copying a well-written character requires being able to write a character well. Easier to go with the trope.

>>94255072
why is everyone so fucking ugly in that

>>94255144
>star
>well written

>>94254999
I'm no MRA, if by that you mean someone who has ever participated in that community.
But your lies are growing tiresome, and by that I mean the feminist copypastas you seem to think will convince anyone with common sense.

Feminists always fight against men. There are numerous reports of insane things like protests against men's homeless shelters and the like. Feminists are also the first to support horrific anti-male policies, like extrajudicial tribunals in college, or the man being assumed the aggressor in abuse cases by policy. Now the latest trend is reversing the presumption of innocence in actual court...

>>94255181
If you're implying Katara is well-written, anon...

>>94243326

Ah, Kino. Robotic personality. Armed to the teeth. Depressing. Likes to watch. Underaged.

My kind of woman.

>>94255104
Stating that you cannot identify a factor with the greatest importance (i.e. a primary factor) is an enormous assertion.

>>94255229
I thought that her personality and relationships with others was relatively well written, although I thought that her being a bender practically on the level of Korra was retardedly done
Star doesn't even have what was good in Katara

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>>94255033
Maybe they don't want to look like a retard who complains about shows they don't watch on the internet.

>>94255199
So, using the fringes to justify your hatred of a group? Classic MRA tactic.

>>94255271
That is the default position unless one can demonstrate otherwise; which his argument obviously does not.

>>94239341
in a world where all female characters were bitchy Mabel was at first a breath if fresh air
but she got annoying fast when all of her plots were low stake stuff that involved her crushing on boys. In a world where Dipper is fighting ghosts, minotaurs, and video game characters coming to life, Mabel falls for a merman stuck in a public pool...
and when they weren't that she was insufferable. like in the Unicorn one, or her weirdmageddon. Not that Dipper didn't have his shit moments too

>>94255291
the art style alone is jarringly bad enough to keep people away from this show
the only good thing about this show was fucking Dexter, and he wasn't in the majority of season 1 and was gone for almost all of season 2 only to be killed off in season 3. why keep watching?

>>94255288
Well, SVTFOE is far below the level of Avatar, obviously its characters won't be anywhere near that level either.

But tbqfh I found the much-hated Mabel to be significantly better written than either of them, despite her lack of a traditional character arc.