is this the worst comic book franchise ever?

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>>90807589
the only Teen Titans i like was the show on Cartoon Network.
the good one.

>>90807665
>the good one
PFFFFFFFFFFTTTT

>>90807693
That stank!

Almost as much as the Teen Titans

>>90807589
Lobdell's Run is the worst Teen Titans run . Everyone knows that.

the current run is inoffensive I guess

>>90807890
it was actually as, if not more, entertaining than the other runs I read
it's not a good book but he actually tries doing something different

>>90807665
TTG isn't even that bad honestly. It's pretty funny.

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>>90807589
The current Teen Titans book is good.

>>90807665
>>90808151
I legit think the cartoons are the only good thing to come from those comics. I tried reading the Johns' run as it was coming out, and stopped after the issue when Rex the Wonder Dog eats Wendy and Marvin alive because "LOL SUPERFRIENDS IS FOR FAGS, EXTREME EDGE WILL NEVER GO OUT OF STYLE!"

A majority of JLA is pretty bad

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>>90807589
I like Johns' TT *and* PAD's YJ.
I don't give a FUCK.

And have you read John's TT after he leaves? Most of that is good too.

>>90808495
Why is Kid Flash black? New KF or did they blackwash Wally?

>>90807589
>I've read Woflman's

But this is one of the best cape books of all time.

The soap opera melodrama of Claremont's X-Men but less self indulgent with tighter plots, fewer characters and more diverse villains and stories. Plus Deathstroke and Judas Contract.

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>>90808638
>"LOL SUPERFRIENDS IS FOR FAGS, EXTREME EDGE WILL NEVER GO OUT OF STYLE!"
Why do so many cartoonfags have such an extreme aversion to edge?
Is a a psychological thing? Do you guys get "adults don't need edge" and "childish cartoons are MORE adult than edge" mixed up in your minds?

>>90808708
New Kid Flash that is Wally's cousin that's also named Wally.

>>90808714
The problem with Wolfman's Teen Titans to me (not OP) is that it *really* suffers from some of the writing tropes of the era. Some stuff from that period holds up really well such as O'Neil's stuff, but NTT, especially the early stuff, has a *lot* of tell don't show writing and hammy dialogue. The plot and art is rally good, it just suffers from when it was written. That's one reason I really like the cartoon, it took the general outline of the Wolfman comics and then modernized it.

>>90807890
Lobdell's run had so much wasted potential. Harvest was an interesting concept that was terribly executed. What was the point of bringing time travel into a Hunger Games ripoff?

>>90808820
The cartoon is more simplistic though.
It's targeted at a younger audience and it shows in the writing.

>>90808714
this is the weirdest sentiment that I will never understand
it's so hard to read issue by issue, just uninteresting as fuck
random old LoSH and X-Men could keep my attention even without knowing any context
Wolfman's like a really boring writer
his Vigilante was complete shit until Kupperberg took over too


>>90808692
no I haven't read the Johns run after he left, I just read his issues
what do you recommend?

I'm just so disillusioned with them I've tried so many fucking stories while normally teen superheroes are my jam. I'll read Gen13, New Mutants, Avengers Academy, and like anything similar but have wasted my past few weeks reading all these Teen Titans comics without a single one leaving a good impression with me

>>90808751
There's a difference bertween using adult themes and writing, and blatant edge. One is great and the other is just pandering to adolescents who want to prove to everyone how "mature" they are.

>this isn't your dad's teen titans

>>90808879
My problem with the writing wasn't it's simplicity. It was the exposition dumps and stinted dialogue. The general premise of the Teen Titans comics lends itself really well to kids (unsurprisingly). What the cartoon didn't have was limitations of the inudustry at the time, leading to characters just saying what they're feeling and explaining what's happening.

>>90808894
>no I haven't read the Johns run after he left, I just read his issues
>what do you recommend?
Bear in mind that I liked Johns' stuff so you might not share my taste, but I thought everything after he left was good up until Nicola Scott started penciling. (Not saying she was the issue, mind you). The ones that I liked have a lot of fun stuff, from Starro to Clock King to more Ravager to the return of the future TT, more melodrama, fun issues where they have to fill their ranks after Infinite Crisis etc...

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>>90808820
>That's one reason I really like the cartoon, it took the general outline of the Wolfman comics and then modernized it.

>>90808920
>and the other is just pandering to adolescents who want to prove to everyone how "mature" they are.
>>this isn't your dad's teen titans
But I think cartoonfags accuse things of this where it doesn't apply because they are confused people.

>>90808983
I really disliked how Johns' characterized everyone
I was 13 years old reading it and couldn't connect to a single person while I loved Dixon's Robin and Kesel's Superboy

>>90809042
>I was 13 years old reading it and couldn't connect to a single person
I read it at that age and loved it.
Then again I liked Identity Crisis at that age too.
But I also loved PAD's YJ.
I think you guys are just too negative.

>>90808714
Wolfman's Titans is so much worse than Claremont's X-Men, it's ridiculous.

>>90809080
I was loving PAD's YJ so much
Johns TT just felt oddly not that optimistic and that's something I couldn't relate too
I'm not negative at all, just want good and fun stories about teen heroes

>>90809143
Your mom is worse than my mom, but it's all pussy.

>>90808495
I want to read it but I'm waiting for the volumes 1 to come out. Raven finally looks cute again.

>>90808983
Most of the criticism for Johns run comes from how he handled the YJ characters. His run was the beginning of the character derailment that got worst under later writers.

>>90808638
Thay was Judd winnick in his Titan series.

>>90808714
>Deathstroke And Judas contract
Are the worst parts of NTT.

>>90809167
>Johns TT just felt oddly not that optimistic and that's something I couldn't relate too
This is the same reason why I think so many of you hate the DCEU/Identity Crisis etc.
The way I here you people talk, it's like there's an extremely narrow "tone" that's likable/relatable/correct, and anything outside of that is bad/not enjoyable.

>>90809001
Oh come the fuck off it; you know what I meant. You can't honestly tell me that Wolfman run on Teen Titans doesn't have aspects that aged really poorly.

>>90809192
is Winnick's Titans readable at all? I liked his Green Arrow run

>>90809189
I LOVE PAD's YJ, and I don't mind John's TT, because we already got PAD, and no one was gonna do it like he did.
Johns just did what he's good at.
Besides, Johns' Kon is good too.
I don't like that he got rid of the Impulse costume tho, but Bart's comeback issue with Deathstroke was pretty great.

DC is the best comic company out there.
Just look at this quality.

>>90809234
Nah, there's plenty of tones that work for comics. Noir, light-hearted, horror, introspective, etc. But what will almost always be shit is edginess for edginess' sake, case in point: Identity Crisis having Dr Light rape Sue Dibny just for shock value.

>>90809234
its exactly the reason I hate the DCEU/Identity Crisis etc...
you can tell epic and optimistic stories that are serious too
but a team focused on kids/YAs should be fun
it's inherent in the concept
but Johns' writing just lacks soul, its so sycophantic, he's like the Michael Bay of comics with even less heart

>>90809252
>>90807589
What I read of his Titans (like two issues) was okay, but OP should read his Outsiders. That was pretty good.

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>>90808920
>the other is just pandering to adolescents who want to prove to everyone how "mature" they are.

It works to be fair.

>>90809236

Of course it has aspects that aged poorly, comics were a completely different medium that served a completely different purpose in the 80's. It's just retarded to say the cartoon is a superior work that "modernized" the Wolfman run when it's faux-anime Cliffnotes adaptation for 5 year olds.

>>90809333
I liked Barr's Outsiders a bunch actually
that gets pretty grim but fits the tone of the book perfectly

>>90809322
>case in point: Identity Crisis having Dr Light rape Sue Dibny just for shock value.
Yeah, and you guys obsess over how edgy that is an ignore all the great getting inside characters heads that Meltzer does. The characters in IC feel a lot more 3D than in a lot of comics.

>>90809372
>Barr's
I was talking about Winnick's. Maybe I worded it badly.

>>90809322
But that level of crime worked for the plotline: anything less wouldn't have justified the brainraping.

Not all shocking stuff is just for shock value.

I just wish they hadn't erased it from continuity like they do every story of character-building consequence.

>>90809344
I can attest to this.
My young cousins like Civil War (the comic) and all that stuff a lot.

>>90809376
>The characters in IC feel a lot more 3D than in a lot of comics.

You're either mental or have only ever read shitty comics.

>>90807589
>is this the worst comic book franchise ever?
I'd rather read every run of Teen Titans over a single (current) Champions book any day.

>>90809402
oh I'll check that out then, they had an interesting dynamic

>>90809439
Nah, you're wrong. IC has very good character work.
Green Arrow for example. Ollie feels so... human.

>>90807589
>is this the worst comic book franchise ever?

No, that would be Spider-Man. I wish it weren't true, but it is.

>>90809435
>But that level of crime worked for the plotline: anything less wouldn't have justified the brainraping.

The problem is that they decided to tackle an EXTREMELY touchy subject, and did so with the finesse of a toddler wielding a sledge hammer. If you want to put rape in your comic, fine. It can be done right just as it can be in any other medium, Watchmen is a good example. But don't just use it as an excuse to "raise the stakes." Once you cross that line you've passed the "this is just a adventure book about good guys and bad guys" line.

>>90809483
you're a fucking faggot 90% of Spider-Man comics are good to great

>>90809523
>and did so with the finesse of a toddler wielding a sledge hammer.
This is where you people always lose me.

And why is rape more touchy than murder?

>>90809549
Because there aren't any murder victims who might read it.

>>90809322
Who gets to dictate what is 2edgy tho?
>oh rape is 2edgy
>oh murder is 2edgy
>oh them not saving everyone is 2edgy
>oh any form of hostile conflict is 2edgy

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>>90807589
The only time the TT have been good.

>>90809376
Nah, Identity crisis is just shit.

>>90809637
?
So?
That's like saying "don't show dismemberment because amputees might be reading".

You strike me as a slippery slope-type SJW.

>>90809473
>IC has very good character work.
No it didn't

>>90809677
I disagree, and I think you need to read it again/and or rethink your opinion. It's a good book and you'd be happier if you allowed yourself to like more good things.

>>90809703
see
>>90809704

>>90809549
Because the concept of killing someone who is against you is a very primal concept, and ironically one that can easily be "kiddified." The concept that you just end someone is a very simple way of resolving a conflict; if you're not someone who has personally witnessed murder, then it's easy to feel distant from it.

Rape on the other hand is very different. it is inherently personal and psychological. Our psyches are extremely connected to our sexuality, and what rape often does is take away our ability to control that aspect of ourselves. It's an experience that can be imagined and we can ponder how it would affect us. No one can really imagine how murder would affect them for obvious reasons.

>>90809549
The emotional damage inflicted is what makes it worse.
Everyone dies. That's even true for some comic characters.
Not everyone has something so horrible happen to them that they can no longer be the same person they were before that.
It's like saying torture isn't as bad as being shot dead. I assure you, torture is worse. You will eventually die either way but one way is painless.

>>90809704
>it's a good book
But it isn't. It's a nonsensical murder mystery written by a writer who knew nothing of the characters or the setting.

>>90809749
>>90809762
Okay, now explain why it was used wrong in the story.

>>90809784
>who knew nothing of the characters
You haven't read it.
That's the only explanation.

>>90809704
>rethink your opinion
Fine.
Oh look at that Identity crisis is still a terrible book.

>>90809839
For some reason I don't think you actually did any thinking.

>>90809645
This is a bad comparison but edge is like hentai/porn/fetishes. You know edge when you see it and only like certain types of it.

>>90808751
>Do you guys get "adults don't need edge" and "childish cartoons are MORE adult than edge" mixed up in your minds?
I just prefer my edge in shit that's actually suited to it by genre, e.g. horror movies and crime dramas, and horror or crime-derived comics... but not in Teen Titans, and certainly not directed at characters from the goofiest, campiest, wholesomest, Silver Age-iest of cartoons.

>>90809868
Well I did more thinking than Meltzer did when he wrote Identity crisis.

>>90809879
>of cartoons.
This is your problem. You keep looking at things through the lens of cartoons. The comics are not the cartoons and are not trying to be. Cartoons adapt the comics, not the other way around.

>>90809906
Hmm. I doubt the truth of that statement, if we're being candid here.

>>90809879
>Not in teen titans
Why not? The comics weren't directed at kids.

>>90809940
As long as we're neing candid here, I got something I need to get off my chest.
>Identity crisis is objectively shit

>>90809376
>you guys obsess over how edgy that is
This is true. The rape and the Deathstroke fight scene is almost all of what some people care about when both scenes put together are only 12 pages. And the hate comes in such a triggered way, makes you really think when some people are this obsessed with rape.

Identity Crisis really isn't a good comic though. Not at all.

>>90809828
>Okay, now explain why it was used wrong in the story.
Because it was a mature subject handled in an extremely immature way. It was essentially an "OH SHIT THINGS ARE SERIOUS NOW" moment. All for a "payoff" that doesn't really even amount to anything.

>>90809940
You've posted like a dozen times basically saying "it's really good and anyone who disagrees just doesn't get it" yet the only argument you've made is vague platitudes like "the characters are really good"

>>90809986
>objectively
Source?

>>90809999
>Identity Crisis really isn't a good comic though. Not at all.
I disagree.

>>90810030
>in an extremely immature way
explain pls

>vague platitudes
????
No, have told you that he gets inside the character's heads very well. Good character voice.
That's not vague at all.

>>90810071
You can't disagree with facts, my friend.

>>90810101
>with facts
I'm asking you- what facts?

>>90807665
Isn't that the one Weissman said was more like Young Justice the comic than Young Justice the show ended up being?

>>90808751
>>90809915
Not him, but surely there was a way of reinventing/paying homage Wendy, Marvin and Rex that wasn't "Rex turns into a Hell hound and kills Marvin"

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>>90810071
>No, have told you that he gets inside the character's heads very well. Good character voice.
>That's not vague at all.

>>90810071
It's Dr.Light, a C-list Supervillain known to be absolutely inept, being reveled as a serial rapist.
>he wore the stupid fin head costune throughout the whole thing.
>the whole aftermath, with ralph trying to console sue, with everybody in costume.

>>90809352
Not that guy, but come the fuck off of it man.

Raven's arc is legitimately executed better in the cartoon, unless you're going to insist that having a huge Trigon expodump/arc right in the first fuckin' issues and following that by doing one every couple years or so was a good idea.

And so what if they didn't confirm Terra fucked Slade in this version, or left out such fan favorites as Donna Troy or Terry Long? That shit was dead weight. All that family shit was holding Slade back, stripping him down from everything, his past, his face, even his tryhard codename, and relying solely on the strength of the design and Perlman's performance was WAY more effective than Merc "Deadeye" McCoolguy and Murdery Soap Opera.

>>90810172
>but surely there was a way of reinventing/paying homage Wendy, Marvin and Rex that wasn't "Rex turns into a Hell hound and kills Marvin"
Again with the "edge is unilaterally inferior to non edge" stuff. WE'VE HAD happy Wendy, Marvin and Rex.
Edge was a change of pace.

>>90810119
That the plot made no sense and that everyone was out of character.

>>90810198
How can I mael this any more clear?
The colored text sqaures with each character's thoughts sound more like fully realized people and less like cardboard cutouts than in other comments.

If you think that's vague then I just can't help you.

>>90810237
Are you sure you're not mixing up "Drama" with "Edge"?

>>90810237
Edge is not the only alternative to campy/happy silver age, anon. Edge is the idiot 14 year old's idea of mature writing and is almost always a bad thing.

>>90810263
>everyone was out of character.
>everyone
You have not read it.

>>90810221
>Raven's arc is legitimately executed better in the cartoon,
No it wasn't.
>Slade's family and military background is dead weight
Priest says hi

>>90810325
>Edge is not the only alternative to campy/happy silver age, anon.
I didn't say that. But when given the choice between the two, /co/ always runs away from edge.
Nothing wrong with channelling your inner 14 year old.
Hell, that's channelling an older person than most cartoonfags channel.

>>90809234
I mean, this is material meant for kids. Very, very few writers can pull off genuine drama in tights successfully. Even at the pinnacle of the form, there where as many awful, overwrought books with purple prose and half-baked plots book-ended by Tennyson quotes as there were genuine classics.

>>90810286
How old are you? The fact that you seem unable to justify your argument in any way other than tautologically restating the initial statement makes me think that you can't be out of high school. Either that or you shouldn't have left high school.

When I say be less vague I mean actually back up your argument.

>>90810326
I did and while I maybe exaggerating when I say everyone but what's clear to me is that Meltzer was some casual who knew nothing of these characters or the stories they've been in.

>>90809828
>Okay, now explain why it was used wrong in the story.
It ends up being a completely irrelevant side plot, and didn't add anything to the characters.

>>90810346
>>Raven's arc is legitimately executed better in the cartoon,
>No it wasn't.
Great counterargument. How is slowly building up to the reveal, having her confess to her friends, then going all-out for a single story that ends that arc conclusively, inferior to having her be Trigon's demonseed rape-baby-hellgate again and again and again, up to and including attacking Starfire and Dick's wedding to set up a lame cop-out?

Even the few fans of TT comics I know will admit that the repetitive Raven arcs are shit.

>>90810394
>When I say be less vague I mean actually back up your argument.
What's to back up?
I've stated my opinion.

>>90810442
>It ends up being a completely irrelevant side plot,
Is it completely irrelevant or is it a side plot?

>>90810286
>how can I make this more clear.
Maybe explain to us what about Meltzer's writing that makes these characters feel more "Human" to you.

>>90809525
Literally the reverse, Spiderfag.

>>90810484
>slowly buliding up the reveal
That's nostalgia talking anon, the pacing was Bush league.

>>90810484
Those Raven arcs were the only things keeping the titans together. Without the threat of Raven going full anti-christ the titans have no reason to exist.

>>90810496
>What's to back up?
>I've stated my opinion.

Back up that you think the characters are well written. See this is why I think you've not finished high school; it's like you've never been asked to do an analysis of any literature.

>>90810346
>>Slade's family and military background is dead weight
>Priest says hi
Priest's Deathstroke is the very first time I've given a shit about something with Deathstroke's name on the cover, and to be fair, it's his name on the cover. Of course it's gonna delve into his backstory, he's the villain-protagonist of the work.

In Teen Titans, he never needed to be anything more than a scary adult who menaces our teen heroes. In the cartoon, he was intimidating as fuck. In the comics, he never shut the hell up. In the cartoon, his motives were mysterious and you just got the feeling he lived to fuck with their heads. He exists purely as the villain of their story. In the comics, he has his own complicated life story, which is fine for his spin-offs, but I HATE when characters are introduced purely to be spun-off into their own books... like Vigilante... or the Omega Men..

>>90810680
>but I HATE when characters are introduced purely to be spun-off into their own books... like Vigilante

To be fair, I doubt Vig would've lasted as long as it did without that initial push from the Titans book.

>>90810646
But my dude, it's not going to change your opinion.
Why would I waste all that effort when your wind is made up.

>inb4 it isn't
I know your game.

>>90810499
I don't understand how you can't picture what I mean.
Think about bad writing. Now think about good writing.
I think IC features good writing. Not all good, but it has good.

>>90810627
DESU I thought that shit was lame too senpai.

>I know I'm doomed to be the Antichrist, so I'm going to spend what little time I have trying to do good, and make friends in the process despite trying to keep people at arm's length.

vs

>I know I'm doomed to be the Antichrist, so I'm going to manipulate these do-gooders into being my personal bodyguards/human shields and if one of them tries to quit, well I can just mindfuck him into thinking that he loves me!

I don't know what to tell you man. You can keep going 'BUT YOUR OPINION IS WRONG", but I'm hard-pressed to think of anything that the comics did that I preferred to the show..

>>90809525
>you're a fucking faggot 90% of Spider-Man comics are good to great

Yes, and most of those good to great Spider-Man comics are frequently retconned or reversed.
Spider-Man, more than any other character in comics, isn't allowed to grow as a character, and isn't allowed to be happy. Any time he is, editorial fucks him in the ass like their name was Skip.

For a character who's mantra is "With great power comes great responsibility", they never allow him to actually have any responsibility for more than a few arcs before ripping it away from him and downgrading him to loser 20 something still mooching off his kindly old aunt in between bouts of super heroing. Even this billionaire shit isn't going to last beyond the end of this year.

Every dream job, every major love in his life, every time he does something that ages him...It's undone. If the tragic things that SHOULD happen to grow him as a character, like Aunt May dying, are undone (To the point that she comes back even younger and more spry than ever)...Because that's growth. And we can't have that.

As I said, other characters may have these problems as well, but none are as absolute in their stagnation as Peter Parker.

>>90810738
It literately only got good when Wolfman fucked off

>>90810755
>This sucks
>nuh-uh! you only think it sucks because you haven't thought about it!
>well what makes you like it?
>because it's good!
>why do you think it's good?
>because it's written well!
>Yeah but actually back that up
>I can't, you're clearly just gonna ignore me. You're all just going to have to trust me that I'm right and you're stupid

>>90810821
I hate people like this. At least he gives us entertaining stories constantly, if you want growth read MC2 and Mayday or even Ultimate if you can stand Bendis but Peter has tangled web, hooky, fever, blue, marvel team-ups graphic novels, Spidey, and about a dozen other version that just deliver good and fun storytelling
You could pick up a random issue of any of his ancillary series and without any context whatsoever be entertained in 18-26 pages, a feat no Teen Titans comic and only a handful of Justice League comics ever accomplished

>>90810943
>>I can't, you're clearly just gonna ignore me.
Am I wrong?
If you agreed with me, you would be able to see what I am talking about without me writing a fucking dissertation.

>>90810806
She gave those do-gooders direction, what was Cyborg doing before all this? Feeling sorry for himself. Beast boy was just looking for tail while fighting suicidal urges and Starfire was literally a sex slave. She didn't manipulate anyone, she was all their destiny.

>>90810496
>Is it completely irrelevant or is it a side plot?
Both. It's a side plot that pretends to be the main plot, but in the end isn't really relevant at all.

>>90811002
Plenty of people in this thread have backed up their arguments with examples from the text. If you can't do the same, then you can't expect anyone to take your opinion seriously.

Personally I know plenty of times where my opinion on something has been changed when someone gave a good enough argument.

>>90809915
>Cartoons adapt the comics, not the other way around.
...except when those comics are explicitly using characters created for and by the cartoons, genius.

Like I'm sorry I played into your anti-cartoonfag bias or whatever, but Wendy and Marvin were legit cartoon characters. They could've just been left out of the DCU entirely if Johns or Winick or whomever hated them so goddamn much, or maybe, gasp, they could've had an actual role that DIDN'T just end with them being mutilated for shock value, like in Weisman's YJ! What a concept.

>>90811056
>but in the end isn't really relevant at all.
You're wrong even within IC, but Batman's brainwashing has major fallout in the JLA comic.

>>90810221
>>90810346
Priest's Deathstroke is good because he doesn't make excuses for Slade's antics. Other writers would try to pretend that Deathstroke was a victim of circumstances or a misunderstood another when he created his own problems.

>>90807589

The xmen franchise is 100% worse. Avengers too, desu. Actually, all marvel teams.

>>90811072
>they could've had an actual role that DIDN'T just end with them being mutilated for shock value
But why is that worse than sunshine and rainbows for sunshine and rainbows sake?

>>90810806
>shitty Saturday morning cartoon with flat characterization.
VS
>a multi-genre series that gave us characters with actual depth.

>>90811020
>She didn't manipulate anyone, she was all their destiny.
Yeah, that's some Wolfman/Claremont-tier goddess waifu fetishism shit there that I'm not feeling. Basing THE definitive teen team of DC superheroes around a cyclical apocalyptic tragedy was a really fucking odd creative choice.

>>90811104
>But why is that worse than sunshine and rainbows for sunshine and rainbows sake?
No one here is defending that except the cartoonfag strawman you've built in your head

>>90810850
That's what I'm saying. Kupperberg might not have even gotten the chance to write on there if not for the initial push by Wolfman. The name/coming from the Titans really meant a lot at that time.

>>90811070
>Personally I know plenty of times where my opinion on something has been changed when someone gave a good enough argument.
As I said, i've already stated my position. We've both read the comic. If you don't see what i'm talking about, me writing a paper on it won't change your mind. Just because I could hypothetically prove Meltzer's writing skill, you still wouldn't like the story, because you didn't like it when you read it, and what i'm talking about (characterization) should be apparent, and isn't something buried below the surface. So again, even if I could prove that it was objectively well done, the fact remains that you didn't think it was when you read it.

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>>90807890
Why the fuck did people keep dying in it and why did he never offer any explanation

I remember first reading the run and it was the only series I knew at the time as I was like 12 and one issue they're just like "lol Bart's dead"

Also WHY the FUCK did Mia just show up for about 2 issues and then tell a bunch of people she knew for about a week that she had AIDS before fucking off again?

>>90811075
This is great too. The only major impact the rape of a comic character has, is how it affects Batman.

>>90811202
You're not talking about Lobdell's run.
Also the Mia/Dr. Light arc was cool.

>Wolfman Titans
>Worse than Young Justice
lol enjoy your generic trash I guess

>>90811125
>Basing THE definitive teen team of DC superheroes around a cyclical apocalyptic tragedy was a really fucking odd creative choice.
It's pure brilliance.

>>90811210
*sighs*
*sigh*
*sighs "reddit" breathily*
*action*

What's wrong now?
Batman is DC's Spiderman. Is it known. Next you'll complain about Bab's """"""agency"""""" in TKJ.

>>90811284
Try your post again without the autistic memeing

>>90811263
It got repetitive after a while. Bringing back Trigon and rehashing the Judas Contract hold the entire franchise back.

>>90811337
no

>>90811104
Fuck off, I've explained this a thousand times.

If you wanna do edgy shit, that's fine.

Do it with your own disposable characters.

Taking other people's creations and violently murdering them has been a sensitive topic of comic book fans for years, and unlike a lot of examples, Wendy and Marvin were explicitly added to the canon just to be killed off.

Do you really have such a hard time admitting that could be interpreted as a purely meanspirited creative decision?

Fuck man, the only reason you're arguing this is cuz I said waaaaay back when that it marked when I stopped reading. I was 16. I wasn't some fanboy reading purely for Wendy and Marvin, only to cry into my Challenge of the Superfriends pillowcase when they died. I was a teenage boy, ostensibly the target audience for gratuitous violence and cynical edginess. For me, it was just the latest in a long line of creative choices that disappointed me. So I stopped reading.

You're the one fixating on it as though, because I can't prove to you with a fucking mathematical theorem that grimdark < happybrite, that my opinion is somehow invalidated.

Fuck off, I like a lot of grim 'n edgy comic books, I loved Morrison's Planet X when everyone was shitting on that, there's always room for well-executed line-crossing, but we can't all, and some of them shouldn't.

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>>90810369
>Nothing wrong with channelling your inner 14 year old.
That is the single most retarded sentence I have ever read once in my entire decade on 4chan.

And that is
fucking
saying
something.

>>90808769

Ah, the Ol' Nick Fury treatment

>>90810627
>Without the threat of Raven going full anti-christ the titans have no reason to exist.
So the story of the Teen Titans is "you have to pretend to still be friends with your high school buddies even as you grow up and drift apart, otherwise your one suicidal goth friend will kill herself"?

That seems kinda sad.

>>90810993
>I hate people like this. At least he gives us entertaining stories constantly,

Really?
Because Spider-Man stories have been shit for over 6 years now.

>, if you want growth read MC2 and Mayday or even Ultimate if you can stand Bendis but Peter has tangled web, hooky, fever, blue, marvel team-ups graphic novels, Spidey, and about a dozen other version that just deliver good and fun storytelling

You mean those two things that are dead? And not just the book, but both of those versions of Peter Parker are fucking dead, and Marvel doesn't want anyone to remember Mayday exists unless it's an opportunity for Slott to bring more suffering.
There are no new stories from either source.

>You could pick up a random issue of any of his ancillary series and without any context whatsoever be entertained in 18-26 pages,
Assuming it's among the ten percent

Teen Titans has some bad shit, but it still isn't as numerous as Spider-Man's shitpile, because Spider-Man has ten times the amount of material to pull from.
And that's a bold claim you're making, since picking up a random issue of Spider-Man and being entertained would imply that all Spider-Man stories are entertaining. This is a goddamn lie.

Besides, there's more to a comic book franchise than just the actual comic books.
Spider-Man has had consistently bad cartoons over the last two decades with the exception of Spectacular Spider-Man, which wasn't even allowed a satisfying ending.
Spider-Man has been in over 35 video games, and that isn't counting the ones where he just appears as a character like Tony Hawk or MvC. I mean 35+ video games with his name in the title and in a starring role...And the overwhelming majority of them are shit.
Both Amazing Spider-Man movies were shit, as was Spider-Man 3. And homecoming looks like more generic, formulaic MCU garbage that plays it safe and does nothing unique.

You strike me as the type of person who buys groceries one day at a time, instead of planning ahead.

>>90811658
>That is the single most retarded sentence I have ever read once in my entire decade on 4chan.
Why?

>>90811736
There's no pretending here though anon, Comic Raven is a divine being that naturally attracts people and provides them a path to a higher spiritual existence.
>Robin becomes Nightwing
>Wally becomes the fastest man alive and has a higher union with speed force
>Cyborg was the technological singularity and is now running around with God tech
>Beast boy is secretly the most terrifying monster who ever walked the earth
>Starfire and Donna are goddesses in training

>>90812184
Did any other characters benefit from her being around?

>>90808708
They originally blackwashed Wally but backtracked as hard as they possibly could. It went over about as well as OMD.

>>90812184
>>Wally becomes the fastest man alive and has a higher union with speed force

This is some bullshit. Raven caused Wally to quit superheroing because she ruined his self worth so badly (also his powers killing him). The only thing that pushed Wally forward was Barry's death. Raven held him back.

Which was explicitly because Wolfman hated Wally and wanted to ruin his life anyhow. He plainly admitted he hated Wally the most of any of the Titans and was happy when he wrote him out of the Titans and into the Flash book with COIE.

>>90812184
None of those things except maybe Starfire can be attributed to her.

>>90811020
>She didn't manipulate anyone, she was all their destiny.

She literally mind controlled Wally, when he wanted to fuck off.

>>90807589
>PAD's Young Justice
The worst part of DC one Million.

>>90813178
but that's the Supergirl issue

>>90813462
I'll accept either. And Supergirl- also by PAD

>>90813647
most of One Million is pretty bad looking back on it
Matrix Supergirl was at least weird and sometimes interesting
best Supergirl is Wings though

>>90813721
>One Million was never good.
Opinion discarded.

>>90807589
This thread is ass

>>90809080

Are you me?

please can someone give me a rundown on all the Teen Titans runs? I know about as much about their comics as I know the identity of Red X

>>90809192
Wrong. Winick never wrote Teen Titans where the Wonder Twins died. His run was on the classic W/P team that got derailed when Wally retired, Dick became Batman, and Roy lost his daughter.

>>90814003
Yeah defending Johns, Identity Crisis, and shitting on DC One Million. /co/ is a cesspool at this point.

>>90816114
wait, Wonder Twins are canon to the comics? I thought they were only on that show that I watched at my great gradnmas house when the adults drank alcohol and played poker

The stories written by Percy right now are so good they will be regarded as the best since Wolfman's era.

>>90813178
Fuck off pleb, 1,000,000 is great

>>90807665
>I was born in 1999 and I don't care who knows it

>>90809330
I'll debate you on that one, Johns' GL was anything but soulless, as his flash and JSA runs

>>90809192
Has winnick done anything that was good? His red hood shit was fucking awful with the Talia romance. Under the Red Hood movie kinda fixed it by omitting it entirely.

>>90816719
>His red hood shit was fucking awful
lul
The Red Hood comic is 10x better than the cartoon by virtue of Doug Manhke's art alone.

>>90816716
they have as much heart as the Star Wars prequels or the Transformers movies

>>90816784
The movie fixed a lot of dumb stuff from the comic, like that awful ending where Batman jams a batarang through Jason's neck to keep him from killing Joker.

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>>90816800
>as the Star Wars prequels or the Transformers movies
These are not comparable. The PT has tons of heart.

>>90807589
Why would you read multiple runs in a franchise that clearly isn't for you? Just move on to something else.

>>90816856
There's no harm in giving multiple writers a try though yeah once you get all the acclaimed runs a try it's time to give up.

>>90807589
NTT is good but that run falls apart post crisis.

>>90808708
A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B

>>90807945
I'm liking Damiens teen titans so far

>>90808495
Agreed

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The only Teen Titans I really like is the original Bob Haney/Nick Cardy version. It's completely insane, as Bob Haney comics usually are.

Wolfman's one of those superhero writers who I don't think really likes writing superheroes. Teen Titans was sort of the birth of EDGY EXTREME superhero comics with lots of blood and "mature" content and very little fun.

Say what you will about Claremont, he has a sense of humor that comes through in a lot of X-Men and keeps it from being pompous.

>>90808495
yep. so far anyway.

>>90809441
That's cause you're a racist islamophobic, White, Cis gender, piece of crap. Bet you like that fucking nazi cyclop too.

>>90816320
>Yeah defending Johns, Identity Crisis
It's literally just one anon with everyone else shitting on him.

>>90816850
Why did that puppet look so terrible? Couldn't they have just copied the puppet they already had from Empire?

>>90810644
Who the fuck is the dude with the boob window? Power boy?

>>90807589
>people have different tastes
Wolfman's TT is my favourite team series.

>>90817879
there is no puppet in that image

>>90817102
>EDGY EXTREME superhero comics with lots of blood and "mature" content and very little fun.
What about that isn't fun? /co has a bafflingly narrow definition of fun.

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>>90818106
Oh my bad (though the CG also looks really bad.) I guess my question was about the puppet they did use

>>90818138
>though the CG also looks really bad.
lol
I disagree.
Keep drinking the kool aid tho.

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>>90818138
>though the CG also looks really bad.
You think that shot specifically
>>90816850
looks bad?
Are you blind?

>>90818156
>>90818428
>>>/tv/

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>>90818486
Wait, what?
I'm the second guy, and i'm not shitposting.
I don't see how anyone could look at this
>>90816850
and think "that's really bad CG".

>>90809009
Are you saying it doesn't apply here? If not, why even bring it up?

>>90811703
Regular Wally is still around though. Before Rebirth black Wally was the only Wally, but once they brought regular Wally back with all his pre-flashpoint memories they explained it away that they were cousins.

>>90817102
>Someone else besides me appreciates Bob Haney

His Brave and the Bold work was awesome.

>>90819626
>Are you saying it doesn't apply here?
Learn to read dude.

>>90816719
>Has winnick done anything that was good?

Exiles.

>>90809252
Winick's Titans is legitimately horrible.

Most of the characters are annoying or assholes, first arc is a terrible sorta-rehash with a TWEEST, and the art is laughably bad.

>>90821984
I remember kind of liking the Donna Troy story, but that might just because I love that star outfit on her

>>90809662
Fuck is this shit

>>90816800
Okay, I was ready to respect your opinion but now you're just shitposting

>>90809662
>Adam Warren is the only american artisr capable of drawing a good fight scene
This book might be awsome!

>>90808495
>good
Jonboy was the only good thing about it and he fucked off when he realized they were doing another Trigon storyarc

>>90825802
Now he gets to draw everyone's favorite heroes: The Inhuman Royal Family!

Bless!