How to indentify autistic people

It really is though.
Its not unwatchable and is certainly interesting from a media history standpoint, but anybody with any familiarity with Lotr will recognize its faults.
Honestly its a better measure to test autism by who actually likes it, as most people arent willing to sit through 30 minutes of shitty rotoscoping over halloween costumes.

I don't care for the rotoscope.

I'll take Jackson's live action or Rankin-Baas' stylized animation over the dull Bakshi rotoscope stuff.

>>89226176
There is a difference between bad movie and bad adaptation.

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>>89226176
is unfinished, could be great but is just mehh, got great scenes

>>89226176

You don't actually know what autism is, do you?

>viewers might think Saruman and Sauron are the same person because both names start with an S, better call him Aruman

>>89226176
Boring and with shitty drawing, but not too bad.

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>>89227053

>>89226342

>Rankin-Baas

My fucking nigga.

>>89226176
I think thinking any of the animated LoTRs are better than the Jackson films, much less actually decent adaptations is a better sign. I mean Hackson but I see people claiming this and it's like seriously nigga? I mean Tolkien would have walked out of all of them in disgust eventually but he's walking out of the stupid cartoons first for sure

>>89226176
Not a terrible adaptation, but things like portraying Samwise as a bumbling idiot really show how they were missing the point of certain aspects.

Also, that whole Aruman business.

>>89226176
Trope threads.

>>89226176
Worst Middle-Earth film. Not even Five Armies were that bad.

>>89226176
Go to bed, John K.
>>89227155
I'm with you there. Jackson's refusal to follow the books (thus creating giant plot holes, like the eagles) and tone-destroying forced humor made them shitty Lord Of The Rings films. They would have been great stand alone fantasy films, but he didn't do that, did he?

The animated Hobbit film was very good with nice animation. Unfortunately, Bakshi is a truly shitty animator and an utter cheapskate, so we wind up with blatantly recycled animation and rotoscoping that stands out in a distracting way.

>>89226176
It's not that great, but I still enjoy it. The bizarre rotoscoping does help with the Nazgul and the Orcs, as it makes them creepier in a sort of uncanny valley way.

Music is pretty good. I still find myself humming this every now and then.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oBvNFMt9Ic

It's interesting to be sure, but the animation is awful, the adaptation job is all over the place, and the acting is mostly laughable.

The Rankin-Bass Hobbit, while having its flaws, is much more well put together.

>>89226176

>The Balrog is literally an actor in a rubber suit dangling from a wire

It's a fucking CARTOON. You can DRAW WHATEVER YOU WANT. You aren't limited to live-action special effects technology constraints.

Jesus fuckin Christ, Bakshi. Did you forget how to make cartoons in the 80s or something?

>>89229010
This is going to be heresy, but I prefer the voice of Smaug in the animated Hobbit to Benadryl Cumberlandfarms' portrayal. I mean the actor kind of phoned it in, but he sounds like a greedy, grouchy asshole, which is essentially what Smaug is.

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>>89229010

>The fucking frog elves

I could understand how someone working in 1977 and having read only the Hobbit might make this decision about the elves, but as a Tolkien autist it's just painful.

>>89229074
Although the wood-elves and goblins are both stupid departures from the book, at least I don't think the designs are artistically bad even if they are incorrect.

The single worst thing about the movie is that it flattens Bilbo's character development.

>>89226176

In terms of pacing and time-cutting, as an adaptation, the Bakshi film is alright. The Peter Jackson films took a lot of their pacing and cutting cues from the Bakshi flick since it gave them an example to work from.

It's also probably why Fellowship was so much better paced than either Towers or Return, because Jackson had to pace those adaptations himself and couldn't do as good a job.

But things like characterization is lousy and the rotoscoping is just abysmal. So in that respect Bakshi's film is an awful adaptation. It's only really good for getting you from the Rankin-Bass Hobbit movie to the Rankin-Bass Return of the King movie, if you absolutely need a visual representation of the events in-between. But that's it.

>>89227870
>and tone-destroying forced humor

I don't think it was really that bad. The only parts that really stick out to me were a few Gimli scenes from TT and RotK, but outside of that the humor was largely appropriate to what was going on in a scene.

Unless you're also including the Hobbit movies, in which case I agree.

>>89229205
>were a few Gimli scenes from TT and RotK
Man. I do love the Jackson films, but what possessed him to make Gimli such an idiot?

>>89229067
He really was better. Cucumbersnatch was just over the top and felt like a guy in a mocap suit trying sound like a dragon.

>>89229238
I dunno, he was actually pretty great in Fellowship. Watching the movies back to back and keeping that in mind, it's almost glaring how much more composed he was in that film compared to the others.

I know that they reshot TT and RotK after Fellowship's surprisingly massive success, maybe he reworked Gimli due to audience reactions to his comedic moments.

Maybe if Bakshi had 5 million dollars more, the rotoscoped parts wouldn't have looked so out of place. He kept a scene of Aragorn stumbling while running because they probably couldn't afford another take.

That said, I respect it for what it is despite the heavy flaws. First watched it in between Jackson's Fellowship and Two Towers and I had just finished the book. It had the first version of Helm's Deep I watched, so this chant was dope:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oBvNFMt9Ic

>>89229277
Well that's the thing. I noticed he was much better in FotR. But he just got sillier and sillier as time went on.

>>89229205
>>89229238

The only tone-destroying humor I couldn't stand was how they rendered Gollum as this obnoxious comedy relief character. I know he's supposed to come off as pathetic and pitiable, but he was straining so hard for laughs from the audience and got really irritating. Like singing a song about eating fish; shit like that.

>>89226176

Sorry OP not a real fan to rotoscope

>>89229277
The shield-surfing scene instantly dated Two Towers to the Tony Hawk Pro Skater era. Rocket Power, man.

>>89229361
I dunno, I found the idea of Gollum singing an innocent song as he beat a fish to death to be pretty in-place with his character within the films. Gollum's comedy worked for me, Gimli's didn't. Of course if you didn't like it, that's fine. After all, it is your opinion.

>>89226176
HEY OP

>>>/tv/ IS THAT WAY

Its not a bad adaptation but your thread titles sounds fucking contrarian

>>89229417
The only comedy I hated was the shit joke right before the Nazgul shows up in Fellowship. It's just out of place, and reminds me too much of the one in the Phantom Menace.

>>89227109
So people who like Ralph Bakshi'?

>>89229470

>The only comedy I hated

Everything involving Gimli

John Rhys-Davies gave a near perfect performance but I absolutely screamingly hated how Gimli was written.

Gimli is easily my favorite character in the book and every time they did a "Hurr hurr he's short and falls down a lot" joke I wanted to stab my own eyes out.

>>89229470
Stealing mushrooms? Come to think of it, the other two hobbits just drop in and tag along. Bakshi at least explained that a little better, they knew the stakes.

>>89229060
>>The Balrog is literally an actor in a rubber suit dangling from a wire

Is it as hilarious/pathetic as anon makes it out to be?

>>89229729
You tell me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kylnv0eTsGc

>>89229788
i like the lion head

>>89229729
The Balrog looks he's wearing fuzzy slippers and has butterfly wings?

>>89226176
Bakshi is like Snyder in that he had an idea (R O T O S C O P I N G) and absolutely went through with it. He's nothing if not driven

>>89229788

>Winged balrog

INTO THE TRASH

>>89229865
Oh boy, here we go.

>>89229788
I kind of like how it's at least closer to the size Tolkien described it as. Jackson's looks cool, but the size is way off.

>>89227870
You do know that Bakshi produced his Mighty Mouse show, right?

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>Peter Jackson interpreted the "Fire of Orthanc" as Saruman utilizing his deep (and corrupting) knowledge of the dark arts to invent an early form of gunpowder, further developing the link between industrialization and destruction illustrated throughout the film by Saruman's descent into darkness as he turns his back on the natural world

>Ralph Bakshi interpreted the "Fire of Orthanc" as Saruman standing on his roof shooting lasers halfway across the planet with his magic wand

>>89229788

Why would they put wings on the Balrog if they knew he'd be defeated by falling into a pit?

Did the Balrog forget he had wings?

>>89230016
PEW
PEW
PEW

>>89230050

BALROGS DON'T HAVE WINGS

Though to be fair it isn't actually defeated by falling down that pit, Gandalf keeps fighting it after they reach the bottom.

>>89230016
That was pretty clearly implied to be gunpowder in the books.

Also, Gandalf invented gunpowder first for fireworks

>>89229836
>(R O T O S C O P I N G)

The rotoscoping worked for American Pop, which was supposed to be a historical drama with a music video feel.

The effect does not transition to fantasy sword & sorcery. Fire & Ice looks a little better than LOTR, but it still ends up looking like Filmation's He-Man animation.

>>89230103
Fire & Ice didn't have barely drawn-over footage at least.

>>89230103

>American Pop
>Lord of the Rings
>Fire & Ice

Why did Bakshi go Full Retard in the 80s with all the rotoscoping? It's used minimally in all his 70s stuff. Wizards and Hey Good Lookin (animated in the 70s, released in the 80s) have a few moments of rotoscoping, but they aren't the whole fuckin movie.

I don't get what Bakshi was thinking in the 80s. I applaud him for trying to extend animation into different genres beyond Kids stuff and comedy, but his "Rotoscoping is the way of the future!" mindset is baffling.

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>>89230099
Gandalf only invented it to entertain the fat tobacco midgets though so that's ok

>>89230168
Budget. And honestly it works in American Pop.

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Superior adaptation coming

>>89230219
I never heard of that, source?

>>89230219
>>89230232

Gene Deitch's Hobbit "film".

https://youtu.be/UBnVL1Y2src

He threw it together at the last minute to keep the rights from reverting back to the Tolkeins, that way he could extort money from them and make them buy the rights back from home (which they then licensed to Rankin-Bass).

Deitch is also the guy responsible for those awful Tom & Jerry cartoons everyone hates.

>>89229289
Holy shit did he really rotoscope over scenes of Zulu?

One thing that bugged me about the Jackson films is how they handled Sauron. I don't like how they portrayed him (seriously, he looks like a fork) and they took 'The Eye of Sauron' literally. Bakshi did it better by just showing his silhouette.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y

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>>89226687
Also an occasional nice reaction face

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>>89226687
>>89230699

And smoe unintentional laughs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpjyNIoJ0V4

>>89230678
Catchy as fuck, orcs really know how to sing.

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>>89230846
It's a regular Orc-estra

>>89229361
He sings that song in the book.

>>89230878
Everyone sings in the books. Weirdest example if "Fifteen Birds" from the Hobbit. Are we supposed to believe supposed to believe that the goblins have some reason to have memorized a song about a bunch of dwarves burning alive in the trees? Or did they all just spontaneously come up with the same lyrics at once?

>>89230970
They all just spontaneously come up with the same lyrics at once

>>89229729
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kylnv0eTsGc

>>89230970
>Or did they all just spontaneously come up with the same lyrics at once?

It's pretty clear that this is normal in the Tolkien world. The hobbits are constantly improvising songs. Think of what the goblins are doing as a battle march.

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1978 Eowyn is 11/10 waifu material.

>>89226342
My problem with the rotoscoping is that there are times where the characters look so realistic that you question why the whole thing isn't just live action.

>>89231188
This being the worst example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha2CnLUSfWQ

>>89230282
Drugs are a hell of a drug

>>89231043
That's actually a thing in Ireland and Scotland. It's possible to find someone to make up a song while singing.

>>89227081
you're a fucking idiot.

>>89231444
Trips of truth

I like how WB advertises The Hobbit, LOTR and Return of the King as a unified trilogy of films, even though LOTR was done independently of the two Rankin-Bass TV specials.

You watch them as a trilogy and suddenly Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli etc. go from being focal characters to cameos between films. And Frodo and Sam meet Gollum for the first time twice.

>>89229788
Even for all of it's many issues, I always found that the Bakshi LOTR had an overall darker tone and just felt more like a fantasy film. Soundtrack was pretty good too

>>89233221

Visually it was darker and grainier. But it had some really obnoxious attempts at levity with characters like Sam being a moronic stooge constantly going through pratfalls to get a laugh.

Reminds me of Disney's Black Cauldron. Visually a very dark film, but really annoying comedy relief characters constantly trying to contrast with the imagery.

>people talking up Rankin-Bass in this thread
>look up a few clips on youtube
>find this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWjt6LGhHsI

Why is everything about this version of the Witch King so perfect

>>89231148
Looks like an anime character.

>>89233642
Can't take the announcer seriously.

>>89233749
An anime character wouldn't be able to deliver the lines she does with the same conviction.

>>89233749
Topcraft literally was the forerunner of Ghibli.

>>89230282
This is the worst thing I've ever seen

>>89229788
why is Aragorn not wearing trousers though?
>inb4 muh tunic

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>>89230282
"A-Aw Jeez, Rick! I, uh, don't want to fight a dragon! I-I just wanna stay in my little hobbit hole!"

>>89234332
Pants are a mark of barbarism. Civilized peoples do not wear them.

>>89230282
>Suddenly, it was all destroyed, by the monster lizard...
>Slag

Ok, I'm gonna quit while I'm ahead.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWjt6LGhHsI
>"No living man may hinder me!"
Sounds like pic related.

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This will always be the best adaptation of LotR. Maximum comfy.

>>89226176
How to identify shitposters:
They make an unsupported assertion and preemptively accuse anyone who disagrees of being autistic.

>>89234557
I was thinking the exact same shit. I don't think I could contain my laughter if I saw the abominable general of the legions of Mordor land in front of me riding a dragon and then he suddenly says in a high-pitched, nasal voice
>COME NOT BETWEEN A NAZGUL AND HIS PREY

>>89234340
>>89234270

I expect nothing less from Gene Deitch.

>>89227065
Actually, as a kid growing up in Serbia, barely understanding English, I had that problem.

>>89235252

>Let's change a character's name to appease Serbians

I hope you're happy. This is the only time in human history that a piece of media was altered to appease Serbians.

>>89231148
Her perfect lines are wasted by the robot voice of the Witch King

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>>89233642

>Rankin Bass RotK is like an hour long.
>Still includes scenes the 3 hour Jackson version omitted for time.

Like pic related. Or that gate that shoots lasers.

>>89235335
Well, they changed a Bosnian into a Serbian to start a war more easily.

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SOME day there will be an LOTR adaptation that combines the perfect design and art direction of Jackson's movies with the fidelity to the plot of the Rankin Bass cartoon.

Some day.

>>89233185
>I like how WB advertises The Hobbit, LOTR and Return of the King as a unified trilogy of films, even though LOTR was done independently of the two Rankin-Bass TV specials.

That's how I first saw them, when WB released all 3 films in a box set to promote the new Peter Jackson films and called them "The Original Animated Trilogy".

I was confused as fuck when it went from LotR to RotK. One movie ends with Gollum about to lure the Hobbits into a trap. Next movie opens with Old Frodo at Bilbo's birthday party, reminiscing about his adventure on Mount Doom. Then when it flashes back, it doesn't pick up where LotR left off, but suddenly Sam is unconscious and Frodo's been taken prisoner by Orcs.

I didn't get why the "trilogy" was so disconnected at the time until I read up on the different studios that made them.

>>89235459
>Like pic related. Or that gate that shoots lasers.

Jackson DID shoot a scene with the Mouth of Sauron but didn't use it either in the theatrical or extended cuts of the movie.

I don't think the gate at Cirith Ungol (can't remember it's name) had any unused scenes that were shot.

>>89234557
The voice is dumb but to be fair that part where the crown falls to the ground when he dies is hype as fuck.

>>89235668
>I don't think the gate at Cirith Ungol (can't remember it's name)

The gate leading into Cirith Ungol didn't have a proper name, but the statues that blasted anyone who tried to enter were called the Silent Watchers.

They were omitted from the Jackson movies entirely and never even had unused scenes like the Mouth of Sauron.

>>89235524
If they somehow work in "where there is a whip" into the films, that would be great.

>>89235779
>If they somehow work in "where there is a whip" into the films, that would be great.

I don't think Jackson likes the Rankin Bass cartoons.

The Hobbit films mostly omitted all the songs from the book, and the ones they did adapt had completely different tunes from how they sounded in the cartoon.

>Cartoon "Down Down to Goblin Town" > Movie version

>>89230197
>fat tobacco midgets
that goes into my DnD campaign

>>89235668
>Jackson DID shoot a scene with the Mouth of Sauron but didn't use it either in the theatrical or extended cuts of the movie.

Whuh? That scene is definitely in the extended cut.

>>89235459
>>89235668

The Mouth of Sauron scene *is* present in the special edition of the movie though.

>>89236079

My bad, then. I haven't watched the Extended Cuts in years.

>>89235800
>I don't think Jackson likes the Rankin Bass cartoons.
I know he likes the Bakshi one at least. He said it was a big inspiration. You can see this if you compare the Black Rider scenes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrzrOyeo5o8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L0A2D7zV7A

>>89236277

Yeah, and he threw in that scene during Bilbo's birthday speech of the Hobbit yelling "BigFEET!" as an homage to the way Bakshi staged it.

Plus, Fellowship was paced almost exactly the way Bakshi paced it in his movie, even substituting characters in the same way (Bakshi had Legolas replace the Elf that carries Frodo to Rivendell, Jackson had Arwyn replace the guy in his version, but both were done to introduce import characters earlier into the film).

I don't think Jackson has ever acknowledged the Rankin Bass movies, though.

>>89230970
The LOTR universe was created via song, it's kind of appropriate that the denizens would do that sort of thing occasionally.

>>89236277

He weirdly originally lied and said that he never saw the Bakshi one which makes no sense because he lifted the staging for the Black Rider scene you posted and the Weathertop fight and also little things like the PROUDFEET! camera angle.

I think he's come out since and acknowledged the influence but I'm not sure what the deal with him lying was. Maybe is was a legal thing.

>>89226176
They fucked up the Nazgul

>>89236372
When did he lie? He flat out states in the audio commentary that the ProudFEET thing was an homage to the Bakshi version.

>>89236372
>>89236595

Bakshi apparently threw a fit when he heard Jackson was making the movies.

Apparently, it's customary to contact the person who worked on a previous version and get their "blessing" for starting your version. Jackson never contacted Bakshi to get his blessing, so Bakshi was vocally upset about it.

So Jackson was probably just trying to distance himself from Bakshi and all the noise he was making.

>>89236810
>Apparently, it's customary to contact the person who worked on a previous version and get their "blessing" for starting your version. Jackson never contacted Bakshi to get his blessing, so Bakshi was vocally upset about it.

That's funny coming from Bakshi.

When Robert Crumb wouldn't sign over the rights to Fritz the Cat, Bakshi circumvented him and made a backroom deal with Crumb's wife to get the rights.

And the guy's complaining about "customs" and "blessings" and shit? Fuckin fraud.

>>89230282
Although the story is messed up and much too short, the illustrations would be good for childrens books.

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>>89230970
>>89231020

Mind that it was original a childrens book from the thirties.

In the same time Tolkien wrote letters from Father Christmas to his sons about what Father Christmas had done the last years and how he and his polebearcompanion had some problems with notty little goblins.

>>89237369

The Elves in The Hobbit make a bit more sense, seeing that.

In The Hobbit, Tolkein wrote them more like mischievous fairies that sit in trees and go "TEE HEE!" and make up rhyming couplets about things, not so much the badass warriors that they were in the LOTR books.

>>89231252
this is drawn?

>>89227870
OH, HURRAAAAAY!!

>>89229907
You said it, Granny Rose.

>>89234871
What's that, the old BBC radio version?

>>89230098
I thought he only fought it during the 3 day fall?

>>89227109
So,social retardation?

>>89229788

you can say what you will about the B-rog and you'd be right, but damn if Gandalf don't look great

>>89237753
No, is like Mary Poppins but with few of paint over

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It's not that I disliked any particular version of the stories but the success of the LOTR films pretty much guaranteed that no one will ever approach the stories differently for decades.

Even The Hobbit had to be a huge gigantic multi film epic filled to the brim with massive battles and action scenes when it was just a cute fairy tale

>>89230006
Yes, I do know.

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>>89226176
I was going to post "people who are triggered by rotoscope", but then I read through the thread and realized that's exactly what several posts are. Nevermind the fact that's it's a tool that's been used pretty much since the birth of animation itself, and only people that are literally autistic are unable to enjoy the visuals or story being told because they can't distance themselves from some "uncanny valley effect". Hell, pics related are one of the best movies of the 21st century, and of 2016, respectively. I only ever see Waking Life mentioned on very rare occasions, and have never seen Tower brought up even once on this fucking board.

If I sound butthurt, it's because I am. Do you realize how hard it is to be a fan of rotoscoping on /co/, and discuss it without it immediately being derailed by autists that say it looks bad. I thought OP would have led to a different kind of thread, but I shouldn't have expected better.

>>89240813
Rotoscoping is a tool, like CG, and like CG it gets a bad wrap because a lot of people use it poorly. For every Gorgon from Stranger Things, we get a dozen Special Edition aliens from Star Wars. Same principal applies to Rotoscoping. For every Don Bluth movie that subtly implements it, we get a dozen amateurs like Ralph Bakshi using it as a crutch.

Rotoscoping is fine but it can't withhold abuse, and Ralph Rotoscoped everything that isn't 8 frames of dialogue animation to be recycled.

>>89240952
>Star Wars
>Using CG poorly
You have to go back to bed grandpa.

>>89241017
>Star Wars Special Editions

School's in the morning, son.

>>89240813

Rotoscoping is to traditional animation as mocap is to CG animation.

I bet you'll defend Mars Needs Moms.

>>89241017
Can someone post the AotC webm? You know which one.

>>89240952
You're absolutely right, and I wish I phrased that better in my original butthurt post. There have been plenty of poor examples of rotoscope being used, but also good ones, so people shouldn't write off the whole medium just because they didn't like what they saw it in.

>>89241065
Lord of the Rings, King Kong, Planet of the Apes, Tintin. But no, you're right, nothing should ever be different and experiment with different formats when it can just be the same Disney/Pixar style forever.

>>89240813
I've defended autotune's existence as just another tool in a recording engineer's kit and had people get apoplectic about how it ruined music forever.

>>89229205
>>89229238
>"Give me your name horsemaster, and I will give you mine, and more besides..."
>"Saruman! Tell us where you have hidden our friends! Speak, or I will make a dint in your hat that even a wizard will find it hard to deal with!"

Gimli was fucking badass in the books, too.

>>89241714
I'm glad that they put his scene with Galadriel back into the extended version, though.

Kinda sweet.

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>>89241790
>Feanor asked Galadriel for a lock of her hair three times
>She refused every time
>Gimli asked once
>She gave him three

Gimli, son of Gloin was more worthy than the greatest Elf of all.

>>89241954
Feanor was a real shitter at heart, Gimli was legitimately in awe.

>>89226176
>They unironically enjoy Bittersweet Candy Bowl and give a shit about the characters.

>>89229412
Everything with Legolas is fucking terrible actually

>>89229361
>Gollum joyfully singing some innocently stupid folk ditty about fishing he probably knows from back when he was still somewhat human as he eats a disgusting raw fish from a sacred pool with his bare hands, almost getting put down by Faramir in the process because he's clearly a repulsive monster

I remember that, classic comedy scene

>>89226176
I remember my dad saying he wasn't fond of its use of rotoscoping; animating by tracing live-action footage struck him as contrary to the strengths of animation.

>>89243228
wish my dad had thoughts like that

>>89226176
>How to indentify autistic people

Look in a mirror.

>>89239483
Yep.

Still the best by a long shot. I feel like listening to it again.

>>89230872
fuck you Carlos, /pol/ is coming for your shitskin ass on the 20th...

>>89240381
We might see a miniseries version in 30-40 years.

Silmarillion movies in 10 years.

>>89226176
I still don't know what the difference between Rankin Bass and Ralph Bakshi is.

>>89241954

The greatest ELF is still an ELF

>>89245727
Rankin/Bass is the company that made all the stop-motion Rudolph and Frosty cartoons. They also produced some traditional animation, the most famous of which were animated by Japanese studio Topcraft (The Hobbit, The Last Unicorn). Topcraft turned into Studio Ghibli.

Bakshi's the guy who got John K his start with Mighty Mouse: The New Adventures. He also made a bunch of cult animated films like Wizards and Fritz the Cat.