They did nothing wrong

On the contrary. From left to right, they're guilty of Tax Evasion, Racketeering, Bestiality and just a fuck ton of parking tickets, respectively.

That's true. The story is so fucking bad it needs the elite to turn into villains for no reason just so Superman can look good.

Someone post the full issue if they want this thread to go anywhere.

>>88084662
Not true, that accent is criminal

If being a bunch of cunts isn't wrong then I don't want to be right.

>>88084662
They were pretty much on the path to "Why shouldn't metahumans just rule the world".

>>88084958
And why shouldn't metahumans just rule the world?

>>88084662
They nearly got killed by the atomic skull, showing that their philosophy of might makes rights only works if you're the strongest there is and they are not.

I loved that movie because I love seeing edgelords getting BTFO.

>>88084731
This always bothered the hell out of me. They were incredibly effective and the only reason why Superman regained the moral high ground was because of the reveal about Manchester Black's past and intentions. Just because he was an asshole doesn't mean he wasn't right overall.

>>88085033
Because it will turn bad once Superman dies. Unless you're part of the camp that believes Superman can go evil.

>>88085124
There are enough good metahumans and superheroes to keep the bad ones in check.

>>88085064
THIS TIMES A THOUSAND!

Edgy teenagers need to be taught a lesson every once in a while.

>>88085147
There are now but there's no guarantee of the future. That's why absolute monarchy is the best form of government if you can find the right guy but once he does it starts to suck.

Riding around in a lobotomized space whale's pretty evil...

>people can't into grey morality
no shocker here

>>88085147

That's completely dependent upon your definition of good, the assumption that there enough metahumans that quality as 'good' to you to keep the 'bad' ones in check, and idea that this ratio won't change over time.

>>88084850
It was literally Strawman: The Comic

>>88085086
>They were incredibly effective.
No they weren't. First actual supervillain they went up against and they nearly got killed.

Why doesn't Superman just kill all the bad guys in the world?

You can't just go around killing things. Even supervillains deserve a fair trial. Imagine if a guy was being mind controlled by Gorilla Grodd or something and Superman just melts his face off. "But he was committing a crime!" isn't an excuse. Superheroes are supposed to enact proper justice.

>movie clearly expects you to feel bad about Atomic Skull's death
Yeah, well, fuck that.

>>88085190
Leaving a huge power vaccum in a war torn country probably doesn't help either.

>>88084662
In this version, yeah

To be fair, Superman did attack them first when they weren't bothering him

For all of their faults, they were genuinely trying to get along with a man they all looked up to, and he snapped when they wouldn't see things his way

Menagerie was going to fuck Supes and he blew it, too

>>88085147
Because all out war between metahumans with normal people caught in the middle sounds like such a grand idea.

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>>88085225

>>88085215
What do you think the term "strawman" means.

I'm not being curt, I'm honestly very curious to see your definition in particular.

>>88085086
They were only good at killing regular humans. Put in someone stronger than them, such as the Atomic Skull, and they're gone. And following their philosophy of "I´m stronger than you, therefore I´m right", the villain would have been right to kill them.

>>88085235
It's actually better to have a dictator than to risk getting a worse guy. It's only acceptable to topple someone IF you have a plan afterwards. If not you're basically a villain.

>>88085086
Because of the cliché that anyone with a traumatic abusive childhood is evil.

>>88085253
When Bruce got Supes power he got to do all that, but muh status quo.

>>88085033
Because then you get Injustice or Kingdom Come.

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>Hurr, if a superhero kills assholes who escape from shitty prisons constantly so they can terrorize innocents, they're disgraces to superheroes and represent everything wrong with them!

What's ironic is that the REAL heroes are actually willing to kill if needed.

>>88085242
doesn't seem all that different from what they have now

>>88085414
>It's Batman's fault that Gotham doesn't have death penalty.
>It's Batman's fault that after all the shit Joker keeps pulling, the judges in Gotham don't sentence him to death.

>>88085414
Superman would kill if it was really needed, the point is these guys would just kill anyone who does something that they consider 'evil' without much thought

>>88085033
Because might doesn't make right.

>>88085465
This. When Superman came across an entire universe that was razed out of life by their Zod after escaping Phantom Zone, and said Zod threatened to escape again and come for Superman's home reality, he fucking murdered him real good.

And then felt super bad about it and exiled himself to space to think things through, even if he made the right call at the time.

>>88085455

You're right. If we left guys like Osama Bin Laden and Adolph Hitler in jail, nothing bad would happen.

Fuck that. If I was a superhero and had to deal with assholes like Joker or Carnage, I'd kill them right on the spot, though I would probably spare petty crooks, but not without warning them to stop being assholes. Authority can kiss my ass.

>>88084662
>couldn't even read the fucking comic

>>88085465
Killing should be an absolute last resort, both for humans and for superhumans. But people with power need to be held to a higher standard since they can easily abuse that power.

>>88085506
>reading comics when there are movies
I lol at you

>>88085534
>burger
>too lazy to read a comic

heh

I bet somebody is watching Superman vs the Strawmen In Warner Channel LatAm right now

>>88085560
Me
Damn Superman can be creepy if he wants

>>88085064
me too. specially the ending

>>88085484
Right is defined by might.

>>88085484
>>88085632
Might may make right in your world but here

RIGHT
MAKES
MIGHT!

This was so bad from beginning to end, so fucking bad, the art style, the VA, the story, everything about it

>88085687
epin
you deserve a <yuo}

>>88085687
t. anon who is intelligent, nihilistic, and has a wicked sense of humor

>>88085534
fuck off you sound like a fool

>>88085663
No, ones that intentionally cripple themselves over a perceived method of what is "right" will be weaker than one that uses all available tactics to win.

>>88084662

What I don't get is why they never return in any way. I know Manchester Black returns as a full villain in one comic to take vengeance against Superman and kills himself in the end when he fails turning Superman in a murderer after making Supes believe he killed Lois Lane which is kind of lame, they could have redeem him or doing anything else more interesting with the character other than making him sudoku since it was out of character even for an edgy 90's anti-hero

Also what the rest of the Justice League were doing while these guys were causing mayhem in an international conflict? Why nobody shows up to help Superman?

>>88085715

>Willing to kill homicidal assholes who escape from poorly-guarded prisons to terrorize innocents is bad.

How are 90s comics bad again?

>>88085506
>>couldn't even read the fucking comic

In the comic the Elite are even more archetypical than in the movie.

In the movie they at least tried making Manchester Black a character with motives other than being a parody of 90's edge

>>88085455
There was the one time Joker was sentenced to death and Batman saved him by proving he didn't commit that particular crime.

>>88085747
Coldcast and Menagerie joined the JLE, making the step up from fake heroes to fake villains.

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I find it pretty ironic that the message of these kinds of reconstructions is that might doesn't make right and we should rely on the criminal justice system when the criminal justice system is made possible by the state's monopoly on violence

They always focus on the "one man shouldn't have that power" part when what's much more important is the concept of checks and balances

>>88085803
Is that a problem? He didn't do that crime so he shouldn't get that punishment.

>>88085218

They killed Atomic Skull, that's already make them far more useful than Superman.

>>88085227

Yes, in a fair world.

In a world like DC, where villains go and leave jail as they please and judges are fucking retarded so they never give the death penalty a more radical action is expected.

>>88085876
The state is not a real person, but rather is a constructed person. It is therefore impartial because it has no reason to favor any individual person.

>>88085901
alive he was powering the city for free

>>88085501
I would stop Joker and Carnage by all means, if they died in the fight i wouldn't shed a tear or carry their worthless corpses over to an ambulance.

By bringing them in, i show society that i respect their laws. I earn their respect and their trust. They wouldn't be scared of me going crazy and killing everyone. I give the people the right to judge and to make the criminals pay for things they did, i give the people the power to do Justice.

>>88085803
He didn't commit that crime, it's not justice. He should pay for things he did.

What bothers me about at least the movie version is that Superman doesn't actually win. Sure he defeats the not!Authority but he doesn't persuade them with the force of his argument or demonstrate that his methods are inherently better he just crushes them by being way more powerful than them.

I guess might really does make right

>>88085938
Well that's not going to work due to out-of-universe constraints so you can't judge them for that. It's literally not their fault.

Why doesn't Punisher go after the big villains?

>>88085901
what >>88085959 said, besides, if Superman hadn't helped, he would've killed them instead

>>88085959

Alive he escaped in less than a week and killed a lot of people.

And power? Lex Luthor created a reactor that generates almost free energy. This is DC, who gives a shit about that.

>>88084662
Hat was giving away Ancient Chinese Secrets for nothing.....That's kinda wrong

>>88085242
Aren't they doing just that? What would you call these endless "good' guys vs bad guys battles with muggles caught in the middle?

>>88085938
The only reason that happens is because DC need them to continue making stories. That means that even killing them is useless as the only difference would be that instead of scaping jail they'll come back to life, so the net gain is zero.

>>88085981
>By bringing them in, i show society that i respect their laws. I earn their respect and their trust.

could you be any more gay?

>>88085991
Because Punisher is a fucking pussy that likes to kill. The moment he goes after someone who can fight back, the possibility of him dying becomes more probable resulting in a cirscunstance where he can't kill anymore because he's dead.

Why doesn't he go full Question on the Marvel politics? Because he's shit.

>>88085991
> Well that's not going to work due to out-of-universe constraints so you can't judge them for that. It's literally not their fault.

That doesn't justify not giving it. At least it would show that the authorities are doing something about it.

> Why doesn't Punisher go after the big villains?

Because A) he is a common guy and B) the 'if Kingpin dies all gangs will go into full war'. That doesn't change that the Punisher has already killed big villains.

>>88085996

And if he was killed the first time, he wouldn't have killed anybody else.

>>88086026
>The only reason that happens is because DC need them to continue making stories. That means that even killing them is useless as the only difference would be that instead of scaping jail they'll come back to life, so the net gain is zero.

Actually there would be a net gain, because it would show that the authority aren't fucking morons who don't learn from past mistakes.

Seriously, I think the judge must laugh internally when he send someone to Gotham Asylum.

>>88084662
They killed that dog in the beginning.
That was also the moment I realized that, just like the comic, the movie was never going to even try and take their viewpoint seriously.
I would have loved this exact story but the killers actually stood by their stance and weren't just a bunch of amoral sociopaths.

>>88086053
It's because the writers won't let him, retard.

>>88085942
The state isn't a person at all, but it is ruled by people.

People are not impartial. Therefore, while the bias may vary from case to case, it cannot be said that the government is impartial. Merely volatile.

Again: what matters in distinguishing between vigilante justice and the justice system is the checks and balances meant to prevent abuse and not the idea of might makes right.

Might DOES make right. That's just how humans operate, and without a monopoly on violence the criminal justice system couldn't function.

>>88086054
The easiest way to fix "why don't judges give Joker the death penalty" without making them corrupt and forcing Batman to be useless is by having Jewish lawyers acquit Joker using the insanity defense over and over again because he will provide them an infinite source of income.

>>88085786
In the comics Black's abuse was much worse than in the movie...

Sure you know what you're talking about?

>>88086083
Why is "because writers" a valid excuse for Punisher but not anyone else?

>>88085991
Because every time he tries that he gets his ass handed to him. Is canon weaker than the Scourge of the Underworld who preyed on literally whos.

>>88085892
>>88085981
shut up bruce let your husbando go already

>>88086008
he wasn't only getting punishment but also being useful

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>>88086037
I can try.

>>88085876
It's even more amusing when you consider that Superman won the moral debate by just being more powerful than them. He didn't convince them or anyone else of his viewpoint, he simply beat them down, curb stomped them, and basically told them they suck.

>>88086107

But do you really think the population would easily eat 'Joker pleads insanity for the 15th time, gets live from latest massacre'.

Seriously, if the Joker killed someone close to me I would go nuts. Because I know he is a criminal that the authorities should have removed from society a long time ago.

>>88086123
The majority of superheroes don't try to kill criminals unless they are Skrulls or robots.

>>88086083
>Because the writers can't write, my friend.
ftfy

>>88086136

Did you just mean the part where he escaped less than a week and killed a lot of people?

How much energy you think he saved, compared to destroying a prison, several cars and buildings and lots of lives?

>>88086123
At least Punisher tries. The fact that writers will let the big villains escape when he goes after them, or that the criminal population does not go down no matter how many mobsters and lunatics he kills is not his fault. Meanwhile, Batman consciously puts the Joker in Arkham knowing he'll just escape and murder more people.

>>88086157
That's why it's a comic book.

People would be literally shaking City Hall for Joker's head. The mayor that "killed" Joker would become Mayor for life.

>>88085271
>A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.

The comic was an attack on modern superheroes like The Authority, while failing to present their point of view in a fair and honest way, instead making up facsimiles representing what Kelly thought those kind of anti-heroes were like.

>>88086150
Yeah? That's the problem of Might makes Right. It only works if you are the strongest guy around. If you aren't then you should be ready to submit to the ideology of anyone more powerful than you, because he's by definition more right than you.

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>>88086193
Batman is fucking insane though.

If he murdered Joker he would kill them all.

>>88086157
>>88086207
It's even stupider that some cop hasn't shot him while he was "attempting to escape" after Batman handed him over. I actually wonder how Batman would handle that. Would he be enough of a faggot to go after the cop that put down Jokeman?

>>88086207
> That's why it's a comic book.

True, I was just pointing the problem with that fix. The authorities still look weak and ineffective.

>>88086244
That was always the dumbest excuse, especially when you consider that he's killed people in the past.

>>88086251

Probably. 'How dare you kill the Joker?!"

>>88086231
Welcome to 100% of human history, my dude.

>>88086193
So what? The writers make Joker escape Akrham. How is that any different? If the bad guys couldn't escape Arkham then what would your argument be?

>>88086157
>>88086264
The public wouldn't like it but they wouldn't be able to do anything about it because the Jew lawyer is too much of a big guy. Batman wouldn't be able to take him down either because he's operating within the law.

>>88085294
>It's only acceptable to topple someone IF you have a plan afterwards. If not you're basically a villain.

So the Rebels in Star Wars are villains?

>>88086251
He would but i don't think he would beat up the cop. Just hand him over for Gordon and let Gotham decide on what to do with him.

I hate these new fucking JokerXBatman stories that have been coming out recently. Batman hates Joker, he's not going to cry or be depressed over his death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbxwnbbzO3o

>>88086347
>Bane? When did you get a licence to practice law?

>>88086312
>If the bad guys couldn't escape Arkham then what would your argument be?

I wouldn't need one because that's what everyone says is wrong with cape comics, that the institutions are weak as fuck.

As for Batman, he knows very well that Joker will simply escape and kill more people, possibly some of Batman's friends and family. Their deaths are on him.

>>88084662
>it's a casual doesn't understand basic morality episode

>>88086174
they decided to take the risk. superman respected that decision.
about the energy, hell, nuclear plants are as dangerous and we haven't stopped building them.

>>88086356
Yeah, sure.

>>88086347
Bullshit. Joker's body count is in the thousands at this point. He is effectively worse than Osama Bin Laden and a domestic terrorist at this point. People would riot after the 17th time he escaped Arkham and killed somebody.

>>88086370
Their deaths are on Joker and whoever allowed him to escape.

Batman isn't and shouldn't be the executioner. He shouldn't carry Joker's death on his shoulders because Gotham is too PUSSY to kill him.

>>88085991
>Why doesn't Punisher go after the big villains?

Because when he does he gets his shit kicked in.

>>88086416
>>88086356
They had a plan. Rebuild the Republic and the Jedi Order.

>>88086405

> they

You mean the same authorities who keep failing to protect the people?

> about the energy, hell, nuclear plants are as dangerous and we haven't stopped building them.
> nuclear plants are as dangerous as super powered criminals who escape on a daily base

That was an extremely retarded point. Like, seriously anon, you should be ashamed of it.

>>88086421
>Gotham is too PUSSY to kill him

Just like Batman, then. Much of the time Joker pulls shit just to fuck with Batman so it is his fault for letting this insanity go on at this point.

>>88086417
I can almost see Joker in his little hideout with Harley only to be ambushed by the angry people of Gotham.

I can barely see Harley getting raped and murdered in front of him as he starts laughing.

I can see the good people of Gotham tearing him limb from limb.

I can already see a bunch of clown henchmen dead in the streets.

>>88086486

I can see Batman running to save his gay lover.

>>88086417
>People would riot after the 17th time he escaped Arkham and killed somebody.
Then why haven't they now?

>>88086486
And now you have an entire mob of people willing to kill those they do not like and will overrun the weak of the city unless the police put them down like mad dogs they are.
Good job.

>>88086481

No, because it's not Batman's job to arrest/kill Joker in the first place. Don't forget that Batman is a criminal, despite all the good he did.

Joker's insanity is on Joker's allies and the politicians of Gotham who don't do anything to improve their laws or make Arkham more secure.

>>88086279
Modern Batman and silver/gold age are literally two different people

>>88086478
superman effectively stopped him. it wasn't his decision what to do with him
you should be ashamed of being unable to understand things that basic

>>88086519
People die in Revolutions, if Gotham won't change then it's up to the people to change it.

>GCPD
>Killing people
>Arresting people

>>88086519

> those they do not like

A fucking serial killer who has murdered thousands of people and goes and leaves prison as he pleases is not just 'someone they don't like'

> will overrun the weak of the city

Yeah, I am sure the mob who lynched a complete homicidal megalomaniac will suddenly start killing everybody else.

>I herebly declare Joker guilty and sentence him to get raped by every citized on Gotham.

What would Batman do? Would he rape Joker only as Bruce or would he change into Batman and rape the Joker twice? Would Joker say something like "hmmm i know this dick?".Would Dick show up?

>>88085064
this

>>88086545
No fucking wonder Penguim is running for office.

>>88086571
> superman effectively stopped him.

Which didn't stop him from killing a lot of people. And that wouldn't have happened if he was successfully contained the first time. Thanks Superman!

> it wasn't his decision what to do with him

It was the authorities decision to do what is better to society and remove very dangerous lunatics that showed being unable to be contained.

>>88085501
>You're right. If we left guys like Osama Bin Laden


You mean the guy created by the CIA to protect american interests?

>Adolph Hitler in jail

Hurr Durr Hitler was a bad guy


>Fuck that. If I was a superhero and had to deal with assholes like Joker or Carnage, I'd kill them right on the spot, though I would probably spare petty crooks, but not without warning them to stop being assholes. Authority can kiss my ass.

Then youwouldnt be a superhero

>>88085986
the point is that people only think they want edgy kill-happy heroes until they see someone that's so fuck-off powerful as Superman do it, and then when it looks like he does go along with their philosophy, it's fucking scary.

Chester's crying for a reason by the end.

>>88086519

Suppose there is a criminal named Savage Bob. He goes to jail one day because he opened fire inside a theater and killed fifty people.

Then, a week later he escapes and decides to burn down an orphanage. Most of the children die and he goes to jail again.

Then, a week later he escapes and decides to bomb the hospital. The building collapses and a lot of other people die. He is captured and sentenced to jail again.

Then, next week he escapes and...

Then, next week he escapes and...

Then, next week he escapes and...

Then, next week he escapes and...

And so successively. Ah, and on one of those escapes he for fun destroyed your house and slaughtered your family.

Are you really telling me anon you would stay peacefully on your couch, thinking 'oh well I'm sure the police will contain him this time!'?

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>>88086370
>that's what everyone says is wrong with cape comics, that the institutions are weak as fuck.

Institutions weak as fuck is basically a prerequisite for capes existing however.

>>88084662
They executed people and that's wrong.

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>How do we make these guys villains so that the audience always doubts their moral code and maintain the status quo?

>>88086672
>superman stops him
>scapes cause the institution is weak
>thanks superman!
how's that superman's fault exactly?
yes it was their decision. again, not superman's

>>88085986
they wanted superman to play it their way. then he did by faking it and everyone was horrified

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>>88086779


Pic related you dumbass

>>88086672
the containment isn't on superman. that's up to the authorities

>>88086519
Congrats, you're retarded.

>>88086920

Kek.

I see your Mexico, and raise a Mexico.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/mexico/2013-06-11/rise-mexico-s-self-defense-forces

>>88086974
>>88086906
Why is it okay for vigilanties to involve themselves in the capture of criminals, but abandon all responsiblity when they have to figure out how to contain said criminals?

>>88086906
>>88086974

It is because Superman, having dealed on villains for so much time should have probably expected it.

And funny, I don't even have to argue to killing. Superman is one of the smartest people alive, why doesn't he help make a prison that can hold those villains?

>>88086779
1) if the system sucks in keeping him imprisoned, it's the system that must get better. Executing is just an excuse for not doing a good job yourself. I'm not saying that in a crisis like that they wouldnt kill him, but that doesnt make it fair. Lets say there is some sort of superman that is killing millions. Some day we finally manage to capture him, but as soon as he wakes up he will escape. Of course that in this situation people will kill him, but that doesnt mean killing is right.

2) vengeance =\= Justice. Yeah, if he killed my family i would kill him, but that doesnt mean i think what i'm doing is right.

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>>88087023

This is what happens to people, look at them, eating besides a dead body. Most people wouldnt eat besides a dead cat, but they are so used to that shit that if you ask them they would say their country isnt as violent as the media says.

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>>88084662
>literally a Strawman created so the writer could beat up characters they didn't like
Has anything quite so petty ever happened in comics before or since? Excluding webcomics, obviously.

>>88087061

1) I think it's fair and right killing someone who is a constant threat to others and cannot be constricted. You know, in the movie they said 'three strikes and you are out'. That would be a fairer position.

2) Stopping someone who already proved to hurt so many people and that will continue hurting people is a form of justice. And even if he didn't kill my family I would join the mob, because I know that as long as that person lived me and my family would be under constant threat.

>>88087028

Simple, justice is a social agreement.

>>88087127

Yeah, this is what happens when the system gets so fucked up.

Gotham justice department is Mexico.

>>88087217
What amaze me is that people like you actually believe that SUPERMAN or BATMAN should have the moral compass of a degenerate from 4chan, instead of being moral superiors that make degenerates like you or me question ourselves

>hurr durr, real heroes would kill to save lives

Superman is not judge, jury and executioner. That kind of power could corrupt anyone and would get out of hand real fast.

Do you think police WANT to shoot people? Of course not, they'd rather take people in alive and let due process take place. If they had a 100% method of capturing a crazy person with a weapon alive they would go for it. But they don't so they have to use fire arms. Superman does not, he never has anything that forces his hand to resort to lethal force. He always has the power to defeat the villain without killing them. By striving for the ideal of "everyone gets due process no exceptions" you get to strive for a real justice system and all the benefits that come with it.

>but they escape and kill people

That's on the institution and the government, not on superman. If the government or people wanted the villains dead they'd just roll up a "super villain death penalty" or increase spending on prisons for them .

>>88085253
THIS

>>88087250
> What amaze me is that people like you actually believe that SUPERMAN or BATMAN should have the moral compass of a degenerate from 4chan, instead of being moral superiors that make degenerates like you or me question ourselves
> literally a non argument

Yes, because we are on 4chan it makes whatever we say invalid, even through I correctly pointed out that killing for self preservation is correct. Thanks.

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>>88084662
Pretty much what >>88085237 said

>>88084850
The movie is trying to teach that killing indiscriminately is bad but never gives a reason for why is bad, The elite could have been that opportunity, a group of ex mercenaries and bad guy trying to become heroes sound like the perfect vehicle for a story about the potential of good on all people and why ending that life could be seen as unfair.

But the movie is not trying to tell why the value of life is important, is just using the story to preach Superman is important. It puts more weight in the person representing those values that the values themselves.

>>88085086
They weren´t villains in disguise they where genuinely trying to be heroes, their methods could be violent but Superman should have try to guide to the right path, not throwing them in jail like a common criminal, the movie tries to make the execution of the Atomic Skull a great tragedy but the guy was a psychopath that in his own words said he would killing people as long as he was alive.

>
The ending is what really ruins the movie for me, for a moment a thought that Superman was trying to make Manchester learn the dangers “Might makes right” philosophy, but in the end really he was just preaching his own point of view on others and sending The elite to jail for being the bad guy.

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It's always annoying when capefags start spouting moral codes when defending the status quo in capeshit.

Meanwhile, general audiences don't have a problem with heroes killing in stuff like Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Kung Fu Panda, Power Rangers, Transformers, TMNT, Samurai Jack, Ben 10, Sym-Bionic Titan, , SWAT Kats, Totally Spies, Sailor Moon, Full Metal Alchemist, Dragon Ball, Naruto, and more.

Stop thinking that rosters of near-invincible fictional characters with no clear direction created to make money off of nerds should hold significant moral value.

>>88085374
Yeah but bruce was also slowly going insane and was lashing out violently against his allies.

>>88087358

Wait, I know most of those did, but I don't remember Ben 10 and Totally Spies killing people. Swat Kats I think it's possible, but not so sure.

>>88085064
Yeah but beating up edgelords would only make them more edgy sinse your are kind of proving them right

I hated this movie on first watch it was so boring. But after watching it a few times I love it. Superman unbound however is just complete garbage

Why did superman lobotomize their powers at the end? Isn't that being a gigantic hypocrite, I don't think he got a court order to lobotomize them.

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People seem to think superheroes are some kind of lawkeeping institution.
They're not, they're vigilantes in circus costumes. They're in the wrong as-is, it's only because real law enforcers are not capable of deflecting the real threats of a superhero setting that they're in a good spotlight. They shouldn't add playing judge jury and executioner to their existing transgressions, that's being a serial killer.

The really baffling thing is that even those opposed to superheroes killing hold this view, their complaints are pretty much completely based on a fervent dogma. It's like a religion to them. Maybe it's out of a bid for elitism, trying to distantiate themselves from people that just don't understand superhero comics?

>>88086752

>Then youwouldnt be a superhero
Maybe, but at least I'd have more common sense than the morons who can't kill one mass-murderer who escapes a shitty prison every day of the week so he can kill and terrorize more and more innocent people each day.

No wonder guys like Punisher are the only truly compotent superheroes out there. Hell, doesn't he barely have a rogues gallery seeing he actually knows to kill almost any asshole he meets?

>>88087358

Don't forget most Disney movies where the villain dies and the heroes don't give a fuck.

>>88087358
Anime really isn't any better than capeshit. Naruto and Luffy don't kill people, Naruto is kind of infamous for befriending the guy who set the demon fox loose and killed his parents. Goku only killed people in Dragonball too, he went to stupid lengths to spare Frieza.

>>88087289
>By striving for the ideal of "everyone gets due process no exceptions" you get to strive for a real justice system and all the benefits that come with it
But that ideal doesn't exist. The justice system is rotten and skewed, super powered heroes would surely recognise this and that they were in a better position to create real justice than the flawed "system".

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>>88087523
>punisher
>superhero

You mean the violent anti hero that started out as a Spidey villain? Saying that he's heroic is a stretch. He's neutral at best.

>>88086231
Inded but that is partially why the story doesn´t work, he didn´t prove that might makes right is wrong he just proved that the ideology is right and that he is the mightiest.

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>>88087210
Captain Atom: Armageddon took it further with him actually shitting on the Wildstorm universe, and it was awesome.

>>88087438
What you said brings up a scary flipside to the hopeful aspect of superheroes, that someone powerful can still act altruistically with their unique power, that always seems to be implicit there. Why are the law-enforcers unable to handle the real threats of a superhero setting? Because they're just regular people. The concept of super-cops, of superheroes using their powers within the existing structure, is very few and far between. It seems to suggest that even if you had someone who was truly exceptional that wanted to help humanity, they still would not feel bound by our laws and customs, would feel like they single-handedly had the right to assume a new place in crime-fighting that no one had previously asked, hired, or elected them to, and vigilante justice would become the norm.

>>88087433
That my friend is the reason why so much people have a problem with this movies, he didn´t prove them wrong, he was the same as them but by being the strongest he was the one making the rules. And his rule was no killing not because might doesn´t make right but because the mightiest said that is wrong.

>>88087358
How would supeman react if the power rangers lived in the same universe that him? Would they be enemies since the rangers kill the monster every time?

>>88084719

one of these is not like the others

>>88087623
>neutral

How though? Even disregarding that Marvel has a fucked up narrative where total assholes can be in the right, Frank is unquestionably a hero.

He's not going around slaughtering innocents and has no desire to. He only wants to stamp out the criminal slime infesting the world.

>>88084662
Until they wanted to kill Superman for punching one of them. All they wanted to do was kill murderous psychopaths.

>>88087737
Well, I guess a lot of modern comics have superhero teams be official government cells. Even with sober uniforms instead of brightly themed costumes.
Although that is sort of diminished by their tendency to flip sides, go rogue and cause havoc all the time for plot reasons.
What really is the essential difference between capes and police drama?

>>88085803

Okay I need some context here. What the fuck kind of crime was he (wrongly) accused of that's so much worse than his usual shit that it justifies a death penalty when everything else doesn't?

>>88087890
>How though?

Because he's not good enough to be a hero and he's not evil enough to be a villain. This puts him in the same pantheon of Neutral characters as Namor, Black Adam, Venom and Lobo.

How many times has punisher selflessly saved a person from certain doom without trying to fulfill his "all criminals must pay" mission?

>>88088140
If my ambition is to save people, am I now no longer selfless when I save them because I'm just "fulfilling my personal ambition"?

>>88088110
>What really is the essential difference between capes and police drama?
Capes generally don't kill people and close ranks to protect their own from being prosecuted for the murder of law abiding citizens.

>>88088235
He doesn't want to save people. He wants to kill people he doesn't like

>>88088235
Frank's ambition is not to save people, is to punish criminals. The fact that he call himself "the punisher" instead of "the saver" should be a clue.

>>88088261
Right.

But you said that if he saves someone it's only because he's fulfilling his ambition.

he still saves people.

>>88088110
Well for one thing, the problems in capes can range all the way up to city or world destroying events. So really it flows all the way from something resembling a police drama to something more on the level of an international spy movie, to a science fiction/fantasy epic.

>>88088289
And doing a good thing for a bad reason is basically the definition of neutral.

>>88088261
Except it's not just people he doesn't like, it's people who have done objectively terrible things.

Saying Frank isn't on the side of justice is like saying prison wardens aren't on the side of justice because they don't prevent crime. They both exist to punish people who have already done bad things, the clue is in the name.

>>88088305
If I hypothetically started making a cop show and over the seasons it scaled up with science fiction devices and mystical artefacts, increasing the stakes every time, would /co/ start making threads about it and call it a cape show?
Or do you really need the masked vigilante aspect?

>>88088356
Depends, would it be a comic or a cartoon? If not it would belong on /tv/, not /co/.

>>88088347
He's not on anyone's side. He only does what he needs to do to fulfill his vengeance mission.

Sometimes it puts him up against more heroic characters like Spidey and Daredevil.

And "punishing" and "bringing to justice" aren't exactly the same idea.

>>88088405
>like /co/ doesn't wallow in threads about live action superheroes and characters tangentially related to them
>like those threads aren't up right now

>>88088289
I am not the guy you were first replying to

And the thing is, you know what happens when people decide to just fucking kill criminals in the real world? It rarely accomplishes anything on a larger scale. In fact, it often has the opposite effect by making criminal organizations more trigger-happy and less stable, and soon you don't have a single relatively easy-to-target group, you have dozens of very violent splinter cells publicly fighting each other and causing much more conflict than there would have been if you tried a less idiotic approach.

Not to mention, the Punisher isn't shit at the power level of the Marvel Universe. He just fucking runs on plot armor. There's no logical reason for him to be so succesful other than the character's popularity

>>88088140
I'm pretty sure going out of your way to stop murderers, break up child sex rings and avenge the defrauded is pretty selfless. No, he hasn't tried to uplift anyone, but does he have to? He's done a lot as is.

his brand of justice is brutal, but it's helpful. As helpful as Supes, Spidey, and others? No, but he does what he can.

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>>88087438
This shit is why I just resort to telling people about how justifiable self defense and defense of another laws work. That way they can continue living in their delusional two faced morality, in which a serial killer is fine as long as they personally like the killer, but can't bullshit their way around cold hard fact. Law of the land says a certain thing, and capes have to follow the law like anyone else.

Keeps things nice and clean too. Really hard to shit stir with such an unambiguous line drawn. Most capes are powerful enough that 90% of their fights can be done nonlethally too.

>>88084662
They did something, which is what Hitler did.

>>88087359
>Batman
>slowly going insane

...riiight. Show me where the Wayne Foundation left the wads of cash for you.

>>88088529
But the motivation the Punisher has for these actions isn't to make a better society, to save lives, to defend the innocent, etc., etc.

He does it only to punish. Everything that could be perceived as heroic that comes from his mission of vengeance is nothing but a byproduct of his vigilantism.

>>88088529
There's no actual need for a brutal brand of justice in a comic universe where there's 10000 other random shmucks orders of magnitude more competent and powerful than you ever will be who could do the same job without ever having to spill a drop of blood. More powerful heroes don't usually get involved in "mundane" crime because it doesn't fit the character and the tone of their series, but if they DID it would be very apparent how the Punisher is an obsolete asshole.

This is also the same point the OP movie was making with Superman and the Elite

>>88088136

It was the author being retarded, don't worry about that.

>>88088754
And to be clear, I think the most glaring problem of the punisher is that he's in the marvel universe more than anything else

>>88085253
So has the neckbeard always been associated with faggots who want to feel big by talking tough?

>>88088485
Sadly, since those began as comics we can't foist them on /tv/ where they belong.

A live action TV show that was never related in any way to /co/ material wouldn't be allowed. If it was the moderation would truly be an absolute piss-take.

>>88088737
Does motivation really matter if the end result is the same, and positive?

>>88089041
But the end result is not the same. And using violent means that will ultimately breed more violence isn't exactly positive.

>>88088754
>without ever having to spill a drop of blood
But the whole argument here is about whether that lack of blood spilling is actually a good thing or not. It's not an objective truth that it's better not to kill villains, it's an opinion. Others are of the equally valid opinion that it better protects the innocent and is more just to kill them.

>>88088737

And he believes that punishing criminals make the society better. His objective is, in his words, to remove those who are worse than himself.

>>88085253
It is pretty much always arabs though

>>88087438
In what kind of shithole you live where common people cannot enforce the law? like.. you will see a murderer and just let him be? hell, in some cases you're OBLIGATED to act.

>>88085942
The state is a collection of people that operates through laws which are enforce based on personal consequences. An effective government prevents any particular branch from holding a monopoly on enforcement. The illusion that might doesn't make right is only possible when someone uses might to establish such a balanced system.

>>88089345
>In what kind of shithole you live where common people cannot enforce the law?

Guatemala
Honduras
Nicaragua
North of Mexico
the fabelas in Brasil
the fabelas in Argentina
Dominican Republic
Trinidad & Tobago
Haiti

Most people thing USA is the rule when talking about the law sistem but in reality is the exception. Most countries that aren´t Europe have laws but no the resourses to apply them.

>>88085253
>Superman is the one preventing Superman from making an ideal world

>>88087358
Transformers don't die when killed. They can have their Spark moved to a new body and the Spark simply converts the information stored in it composing the self back to their homeworld and feeds into the collective intelligence.

>>88087523
What does Punisher accomplish? Nothing, none of his actions have change from status quo. Superheroes can push the world away from that and it will take at least months from the status quo to return.

>>88089613
The fuck? He removes people who've committed terrible crimes from society, just like the justice system does through prison or the death penalty. How is that accomplishing nothing? Without punishment those people would be free to just continue doing what they're doing.

The whole point of punishment as a tactic for fighting crime is to discourage others from doing those things via the THREAT of punishment - Don't do bad shit and The Punisher (or the law) isn't going to come for you. That's literally why prison exists. Of course it has an effect.

>>88087799
The monsters don't have rights. No different than eating cows or shooting gophers.

>>88089731
Because the criminal element reproduce at the same rate he kills them and instead they simply adapt to avoid Punisher instead of changing the criminal acts.

> it's a capefags can't understand basic realities of the world episode

You know laws change all the time, right? The only reason we have voting mechanisms in the west is so that we don't kill each other and balkanize over things like corn prices. What responsibility does a person have to follow laws that put their families and legacies at risk? Do capefags actually take lawfulness as a moral framework in itself, and not as a means to promote prosperity? Hell, even equality or religious doctrine are at least actual ideological foundations through which to shape the law.

>>88089851
Law is inherently correct because it is lawful.

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Fill out this paper work anons. Be honest, please.

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>>88090025
We world of strength now

>>88090171
Saitama mode confirmed

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>>88090025
>Be honest
Well I don't have superpowers and am not a complete spaghetti spiller, so there we go.

>>88086906
Superman should kill the entire universe to prevent crime.

>>88090223
I meant be honest on how you feel when it comes to sparing villains and showing mercy or putting them down. There is no right or wrong answer, how you feel about your method of superheroing is up to you anon.

>>88087289
>That kind of power could corrupt anyone and would get out of hand real fast.
I don't think so. If anyone was the man for the job it would be Superman, but he knows that it would be a bad idea because having a lawful society is an important part of civilization.

>>88089807

At least Frank's methods are able to prevent the terrorizing or murders of innocents faster than sending them to a shitty prison they can easily escape from daily.

>>88090768
Normal criminals cannot escape from prison because there is no incentive to break them out. Super villains are attractive because they are powerful.

>>88085534
>>>/tv/

>>88086358
>Just hand him over for Gordon
And Gordon, being a massive faggot himself, would do everything in his power to ruin that cop's life. Seriously, Gotham's two biggest plights are Batman and Gordon, get LITERALLY ANY OTHER TWO SIMILARLY COMPETENT PEOPLE to do those jobs and they'd clean up in a month.

>>88088140
>How many times has punisher selflessly saved a person from certain doom without trying to fulfill his "all criminals must pay" mission?
How about you read a comic you stupid fucking shit, Frank's fucking MO is ''If during ANY point of an operation innocents i wasn't aware of appear, abandon everything and focus solely on getting them the fuck out of there.'' His NUMBER ONE priority is saving and protecting innocent lives, killing scum comes second.

>>88089465
I live in Brasil, and yeah, we can enforce the law.

Seriously, it's a weird concept to me; if you see someone commiting a crime you're supposed to do Nothing?

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>>88090025

>>88091606
Shut up Spider-Man. Your uncle died because he was weak.

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>>88090025

>>88091823
Supes is actually a top tier fighter and a genius scientist.

>>88092014
>Batman
>not max fighting skills
Shiva fags get the fuck out REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>88084662
obligatory

>>88092133
If you want Superman to take over the world and impose his will, just say so. Because, m8, once he starts taking shortcuts he ain't stopping.

>>88092100
Batman can't win against the best fighters without preptime.

>>88085484
>Because might doesn't make right.
You aware that's the nature of man, right? Why do you think the middle east is being bombed?

>>88092156
Why not, is he insane? If so, why allow him any extralegal latitude to attack people in the first place? If a hero is deemed competent to use any sort of violence then they should also be considered competent to resort to lethal violence when appropriate. If they aren't, then they shouldn't be out fighting crime and looking for fights in the first place.

>>88084662
>things casuals say

>>88092324
He should be able to without prep by just using items in his belt IMO. Prep should be needed only for higher level metas.

>>88092324
That's bullshit. Batman is top tier in skill, and blows every other human away in physical stats.

>>88092406
>Why not, is he insane?
He is a good, upstanding person, who realizes that he's basically all-powerful but still just a man, with all our flaws, and that killing would be EXTREMELY easy for him and a huge slippery slope. Supes understands that he's not infallible and that if he doesn't hold himself to the most rigorous standards possible he will slip and he will fall.
Also, he does use lethal force, but only as an absolutely last resort. He can kill most of his villains very easily, and what you're asking him to do is kill because it's convenient. Which, again, leads to: ''Why don't i just run the whole place, then, that way nothing bad will ever happen?''

>>88092617
>he does use lethal force, but only as an absolutely last resort.

That's fine then, I have no complaints. I thought I was arguing with the usual "NO KILLING EVER" aspie.

>>88085501
You do realize that the Nuremberg Trials were a thing right?
Big bunch of trials where the surviving Nazis were given a 'fair' shot and some of them, turns out, were actually found innocent.

If you don't believe in the justice system then go live in Somalia mate, the Justice system is the dankest shit this side of Colombia and as a britbong I am unceasingly proud of the concepts the UK added to western justice.

>>88092617
>>88092663

Yes, like when Superman killed Zod.

>>88084662
They kidnapped Bunny and tried to kill Superman because he wanted them in jail.

>>88086347
Man that'd be a fucking good story line
>Jokers lawyer is always paid for by an unknown third party that always, ALWAYS gets him off through raw, unadulterated behind the scenes corruption.
>Same goes for the rest of the Gallery
Literally the Antithesis of Batman, the villain, one he can't touch because he got dank as fuck legal cover and wants Batman gone so he can continue to drag Gotham down for his own money.
Only Bruce Wayne and his fat stacks of cash can battle this faggot in the legal system.
Basically, George Soros as a Batman villain.

>>88092751
SNYDER REEEEE

>>88092749
>as a britbong I am unceasingly proud of the concepts the UK added to western justice.

You mean like prosecuting people for defending themselves, and giving minors carte blanche to engage in any illegal activity they please with no fear of consequences?

>>88092749

> You do realize that the Nuremberg Trials were a thing right?

You do realize that villains such as the Joker would be executed alongside Goring and the like?

> If you don't believe in the justice system then go live in Somalia mate

You know what? Not this anon, but if I lived in Gotham city maybe I would. Somalia has some nice parts, and at least on a third world shithole I don't have to worry about being murdered about a villain who escaped from jail for the hundred time.

>>88086634
>Bruce Wayne has to rape the Joker
Personally I think Bruce is rich and well connected enough that he'd be able to pull a big ol' bribe and get his own personal Harley in the lock up.

>>88087358
>Why doesn't John Cena just kill the Undertaker

>>88092749
>Nuremberg Trials
lol

Alright, hypothetical situation.
Superman has had enough of this bullshit, one day he heads over to Luthor tower and pops Luthors head like a zit, on live television, in front of the entire world.
He strolls on out the tower, whistling on his merry way after a job well done and gets stopped by two cops.
>Sir, you just killed a man, you're going to have to come with us
>Eat a dick officer, only I decide when I have gone far enough! :3
And then he moonwalks off down the street
So, Tower of Solitude gets a summon to Court, Supes turns up and the judge sayeth
>Supes, you killed a man son, I can't let you do that, we have laws against it
>Inhale my asshole M'lurd, he'd have killed again and you can't stop me from leaving this court room
So he leaves
CIA does the same, Batman, the Justice League, everyone politely asks him to come in for murder.
Then they start asking not so politely.

The thing every edgy faggot in this thread is forgetting is that once you've killed someone, no one ever trusts you again, not on a moral level, its not a matter of if it fucks you up in the head, its a matter of the fact that Superman would never be able to serve the public good again.
One satisfactory moment of squeezing a zit, then from that moment on every time he goes to save a burning orphanage, someone turns up to tell him he needs to go to court about that violent murder he did and they get more firm about it each time.
He can't claim to uphold the standards of civilized society and the heroic ideal, while at the same time going 'Oh but such standards don't apply to me, I'm above them'
It'd be like Nixon
>I'm saying that if Superman does it, its not illegal.

>>88092927
Totally agree, in any functional world, Joker would be executed like the cunt he is.
That's how the justice system works. I'm entirely for a Justice system that has the right of death, but I'm also entirely for a Justice System, not a Vigilante system.
Justice is based in facts, fact is Joker has done everything except ate a baby by this point, fucker needs to die for the good of civilization.
Vigilante justice is based in feelings, well he killed my wife so fuck that guy, I'm going to drill through his kneecap and fill the hole with bullet ants because it makes me feel better...wait, he didn't kill her? Well fuck, my bad bro.

>>88092901
I mean like having a justice system that's more than
>That Lord fucked me wife brutally in our own bed
>No I didn't, that peasant is only saying that because he stole a pig
>Better kill the peasant, fucking pig thief

>>88088136
Coating postage stamps with Joker Venom, thus causing fatal poisonings throughout Gotham. And the one time the justice system finally got fed up with Joker's bullshit, it turns out to be the one time where he really didn't do it.

>>88084731
So which universe are you living in where straight-up murder isn't a crime/morally abhorrent?

>>88093196
>The thing every edgy faggot in this thread is forgetting is that once you've killed someone, no one ever trusts you again, not on a moral level, its not a matter of if it fucks you up in the head, its a matter of the fact that Superman would never be able to serve the public good again.

Soldiers and police kill people all the time and most people twist their minds into a fucking pretzel to justify it. They don't just justify it, they fucking worship it. You think they wouldn't give Superman a pass? Very few people would get bent out of shape if Superman killed most super-villains, especially monsters like the Joker. I think there would be more public outrage at the idea of charging a hero with a crime in such a case. Lex is a bit of a special case, in that he isn't considered a menace to society by the general public.

>>88084662
I disagree. I'm not even talking about their murder of The Skull, their intervention on the two nations at throats with one another; there's a time and place for death and justice, wherever and whenever it is.

Which part did they do wrong?

The part where they were willing to flatten the city and the fact that they fought where they were regardless of the danger to civilians. While I can agree with some things that they did, the whole point of being an enforcer in the mold of the League, regardless - by breaking the threshold - was for them to actually to protect the weak over killing the aggressor.

My concern with them is that they didn't care who was between them and their target - whoever that was in their way was "collateral". They weren't in it to protect the well-being and the lives of the world's citizens. They were in it to prove that they were the biggest, baddest cats around.

It's like a cop who joined the force to just have the opportunity to shoot someone against Superman who joined the fire brigade to save lives. Superman may make the odd mistake and he may screw up and not be able to save everyone, but he's going to go in that fire FOR YOU. The Elites are going to pepper holes in the suspect's body as soon as they have a shot - regardless if it's clear or not. That's not how they should operate.

>>88093196
Autism: the Post

>>88093413
When do they "straight-up murder" anyone who isn't committing a violent crime?

>>88093435
People pretend they worship it, in reality Soldiers have an incredibly hard time integrating because everyone secretly knows that they've been trained to be murder machines that might snap at any moment.
Even, you know, if they aren't.
People pretend they're fine with killing because its necessary, but unless its someone very close to you and you know they had to do it, you always look at someone you know has killed with suspicion, deep down.
Or maybe that's just a cultural clash thing and the US treats soldiers like Demigods, I don't know.

>>88093435
>Tries to defend stance against being edgy
>Is in actuality an edgy faggot
k

>>88093470
Did they have the authority to kill them? If not, then it's straight-up murder. Doesn't matter if it was in the protection of others, people can't just go around murdering each other, willy-nilly, because that just starts the chain of "Well, if this is fine, then this one little step beyond is fine too" until people are just allowed to kill each other for the sole reason of "He looked at me funny"

>>88093435
>Very few people would get bent out of shape if Superman killed most super-villains, especially monsters like the Joker.
Did you not see the fallout of Man Of Steel?

>>88091438
>NUMBER ONE priority

If it was his number one priority he would do it at all times and not only when it gets in the way of his mission of vengeance.

The fact that he only saves people when, as you typed yourself, he's in the middle of an operation states that the operation is his NUMBER ONE priority and that saving people is NUMBER TWO.

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>>88093196
>once you've killed someone, no one ever trusts you again, not on a moral level

Congrats, retard. You just made an objectively false statement regarding the majority of both fictional and real-life events involving violence.

Also, learn to form better sentences. You write like a ditsy 3rd grader making her first essay.

>>88093615
Let me guess, you're a britbong? Either that or a retarded edgelord.

>>88093663
I meant real people if Superman existed in real life, smartass. Obviously Superfags will get bent out of shape over anything and everything, they're literally retarded.

>>88093530
>People pretend they're fine with killing because its necessary, but unless its someone very close to you and you know they had to do it, you always look at someone you know has killed with suspicion, deep down.

Nnnnoooo...

>Or maybe that's just a cultural clash thing and the US treats soldiers like Demigods, I don't know.

I think it's partly this and partly that you're projecting your own unnatural hang-ups onto the rest of mankind. We wouldn't last very long if we were biologically predisposed to hate people who kill in our defense. The USA is especially public about exalting its warriors, but it's an attitude that exists everywhere.

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>>88093196
>killing a villain = edgy
Please don't reproduce.

>>88093706
Oh eat a dick. You know full fucking well I meant foreplanned murder or crimes of passion, fuck, even Manslaughter. Not fucking self-defense, in which case its perfectly justifiable and do you know why? Because you're killing someone that's trying to murder (Or at least do something to you) you, which makes them an acceptable target.
Or am I going to have to start adding legal footnotes to my posts on Guatemalan Pingpong collectives for you personally?

>>88084719
Vira's guilty of numerous direct counts of murder...and whatever it's called when your bugs invade black energy-user's body and force him to murder someone.

>>88093919
>>88093196

When someone kills a thief, a thug, or a killer, they are defending society from their detrimental behavior.

I'd call you a loser for having for thinking otherwise, but I feel like a bigger loser simply by responding to you.

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>>88093722
>Either that or a retarded edgelord.
>Argues AGAINST murder
>You're an edgelord

Really?

>>88084719
Based on THAT? Kill them all!

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>>88084731
>>88084935
>>88085033
>>88085086
>>88085215
>>88085414
>>88085501
>>88085560
>>88085632
>>88085876
>>88085938
>>88085986
>>88086150
>>88086215
>thought those kind of anti-heroes were like

And that is where I leave you edgefags

>>88090189
>Saitama
>Superpowers
Blasphemer

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>>88090025
I'd like to be pretty well rounded.

>>88093023
Undertaker is just another wrestler. He may be a scary undead that terrifies the shit out of everyone and uses pragmatic strategies when needed, but he is not malicious any more than a storm.

>>88093753
If Joker existed in real life he would've been considered a domestic terrorist and would've been executed long before Superman or even Batman would need to. Your argument is nonsense because you're making unrealistic arguments and trying to claim them as "realistic".

>>88093687
He saves and protects innocent lives by getting the garbage that endangers them off the streets. Also, what the fuck do you expect him to do, drive around until he spots someone in danger? Congratulations, you just cut his effectiveness by 99%. Listen to police radios for emergency situations? Still A LOT less effective and he'd be easier to catch since the places would be swarming with cops and they'd expect him.
>the operation is his NUMBER ONE priority and that saving people is NUMBER TWO
Show me a scan of him prioritizing a hit over saving a civilian or shut the fuck up.

>>88094146
You mean like what I entirely agreed with here >>88093321

I'd say you're fighting a strawman but what I think we have here is a failure to communicate.
I got no problem with killing within the system.
But extra judicial killings, ones outside of civilized benchmarks of self-defense and so on, see above, can't trust, ect, ect.

>>88094922
>what the fuck do you expect him to do, drive around until he spots someone in danger?
You mean to actually do things that a super hero would do? If he was to be be considered a super hero, yes. But he doesn't because he's not.

>show me a scan
You're the one making the claim that "saving civilians is his number one priority". Even though you said he only does it when they are involved in one of his operations (i.e. his second priority). The burden of proof is on you, smartfriend.

>>88087597

Luffy's reason according to Oda, is that Luffy thinks having them watch their dreams and desires crumble to dust is more of a punishment than death.

Which is a bit dark if you think about it.

>>88095538
Requesting a drawfag do Luffy as Bane.

>Your punishment musht be more... shevere.

>>88084662
Who? I've always heard of The Elite but fucking know who they are.

>>88085215
If a bunch of horrible, murdering psychopaths decide to kill other horrible murdering psychopaths, you're still left with a bunch of horrible, murdering psychopaths.

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>>88089482
>he never read Squadron Supreme

>>88099480
So they just need to never die or become evil. Should be doable since they are trans-human.

>>88093385
>violent crimes are jail worthy
>BUT MUH STAMPS
God damn Gotham's mail service doesn't fuck around

>>88094732
>I'm retarded on purpose
Wew lad

>>88095474

>you said he only does it when they are involved in one of his operations
Nope, what i said was he immediately abandons everything else if they appear. Frank does shit like track down kidnappers and save hostages all the time.

>>88099480
Thank god I have read Squadron Supreme.

>>88084662
Yes they did, they fucked with the last son of krypton & got their hot topic shopping asses btfo

>>88100057
Pretty much this. ''Fucking with Superman'' is at the top of the list of wrong things to do.

>>88100086
And the authority Superman has is being the biggest gun.

>>88084662
Because Superman stopped them timely. They were about to start a superhero civil war.

Kingdom Come probably happened in a universe where The Elite or a similar group got away with their brand of "justice" while Superman was on retirement.

>>88084662
They didn't stick to their own philosophy when it stopped benefiting them.

>>88084662
I haven't watched the movie, but do they still try to kill Superman for preventing them from killing aliens Clark was taking to prison?

>>88093435
>Very few people would get bent out of shape if Superman killed most super-villains, especially monsters like the Joker
This is exactly the reason Magog was acquitted of Joker's murder in Kingdom Come.
>>88093663
Most of the MoS complaints wasn't just that he did kill, it was the fact that the "there was no other way" was very sloppily constructed melodrama. People began suggesting various other ways the scenario could have played out (Why didn't Superman just cover Zod's eyes?) and the pro-MoS guys just started "YOU'RE JUST MAD CUZ 'NOT MUH SUPERMANS'" and basically ignoring the fact that there was a laundry list of ways Superman could have saved those people without killing Zod. More people would have been okay with it if it had been better written.

>>88100509
Were people really mad about Superman killing Zod? I thought people were more upset with hundreds dying in their fight.

>>88100086
1. You don't tug on Superman's cape
2. You don't spit into the wind.
3. You don't pull the mask of the ol' Lone Ranger
4. You don't mess around with Jim

>>88100246
Isn't that just being practical/adaptable? What's Batman's policy of not killing the Joker done for Gotham?

>>88085455

Wayne owns the town. It is his fault

>>88100597
>mad about Superman killing Zod
Read the post again.
People were mad that it was badly written. Most of the time, Superman is written as "There's ALWAYS another way." but he has been forced to kill on quite a few occasions. But on a whole lot more occasions, he's been written as calling bullshit on people who said they were forced to kill because there was no other way.
Clearly, there's no actual absolute since Superman has been written by so many different people (I've seen it argued that the much lauded page of Superman killing Zod & Company with Kryptonite was written by a writer who was on his way out the door and did it out of spite).

In this case (MoS, that is) the original version of the script had him subdue Zod but the producers (the money men, not the director) wanted it to be a kill so it was rewritten as the laziest possible "there was no other way" scenario in which Superman should have had no trouble finding a dozen "other way"s to solve the problem at hand. We weren't mad at Superman killing, we were mad at shit writing.

>>88100747
>practical/adaptable
Not when you're Manchester Black.
Black's whole "philosophy" was that they had the right because they had the might. Rules don't matter, because the end justifies the means.

But as soon as they weren't the top of the food chain anymore, he changed his tune very quickly. When he thought that Superman had started killing his team-mates, when he was placed in the situation he'd put everyone else in where you either acquiesce to the greater force or you get squashed, he immediately started crying that it wasn't fair.

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>>88099950
>Nope, what i said was he immediately abandons everything else if they appear. Frank does shit like track down kidnappers and save hostages all the time.

He's not doing it to save the hostages. Kidnapping's a crime and the kidnappers need to be punished. And in Frank's mind if the hostage turns out to be a criminal then they might deserve punishment themselves.

>>88085253
its amazing how relevant this is, because these days, it is always arabs

>>88084662
I hated the animated version of this. It absolutely ruined the whole point of the book.

in the original story, Superman prooves he is above their level and better than them, by just putting on a show. he never kills anyone, and doesn't actually neutralize their powers. he just disables them all temporarily.

in the movie, he actually outright sends them to some facility to have their powers removed. the fuck?

It is an absolute fucking miracle that superpowers don't exist.
I would be fucking terrified of the idea of anyone in this thread acquiring that kind of power.
The human species would not survive.
All it would take is one argument.
One break up.
One moment of thoughtless anger.
Or, more likely, a whim.
Thank fuck for reality.

I would like this story if Pa Kent didn't imply that killing isn't a core part of the American way.

>>88087359
Well. Bats is unworthy of powers.

>>88089345
>>88089465

I think China is the best example, they enforce not giving a shit about 3rd persons. You can get into trouble for helping someone unrelated to you.

>>88092133

I love how he didn't answer to that.

>>88094146
>When someone kills a thief, a thug, or a killer, they are defending society from their detrimental behavior.

I think they do this in radically muslim countries, maybe move there.

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>>88093196
>Inhale my asshole M'lurd

>>88093196
>once you've killed someone, no one ever trusts you again
Unless you're a cop, a soldier or killed in self defence.

No-one here is arguing in favour of killing people for no reason, they're arguing that for certain crimes it would be safer and more fair to enforce the death penalty. Considering superheroes are already vigilantes operating outside of the law, enforcing the death penalty when the authorities won't isn't really that much of a stretch.

>>88084662
Manchester Black looks like a Tumblr feminist.

>>88107210
That's because their look is very watered down punk, after the look became socially acceptable.

You think 4chan has problems with normalfags, think how old punks must feel.

>>88085876
This.

>>88099176
go watch superman vs the elite

>>88084662
The movie is some one sided bullshit that really forces Superman on you without ever really making him seem right to be sure. Was the comic any better?

There was no reason yo leave some monster like Atomic Skull alive and on Earth, what are you going to do with him anyway