Damn

Who is BigBangComics, is that a store?

They know that shit will never sell. They'd be losing money by ordering books that are just going to sit on their shelves and collect dust.

>>86876216
Champions is dead in the water.

Guess all that shilling on here from Marvel interns didn't pay off.

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>>86876216
Marvel is fucking done. Just finish the rest of the MCU and then cut your losses and close up shop

>>86876216
>Mosaic
Is that the new bodysnatching Inhuman? damn, poor nigga is dead on arrival.

>>86876258
They had change of marketing after they went the acronym.

>>86876258
An Irish comic book shop important mainly because Rich uses them as one of his main sources on what retailers feel (because the non-NA scene is so relevant in regards to comics).

I'd also be disappointed if Mosaic isn't ordered. Concept seems fine and the Barnes & Noble free story was actually fun.

>>86876334
Kind of sucks because the creators (both black guys) seemed to emphasize that he's an arrogant prick and specifically shat on the "noble and perfect minority" shit you see a lot.

>>86876317
Champions is dead in the water because they let Waid write it

>>86876216
So who's going to their spot on the "Big 2" now?

This please me.

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Really makes you think, doesn't it?

>>86876317
Spoken like a true DC Intern

>Ireland

I like Marvel from a nostalgic standpoint (60's thru late 80's). They kind of deserved this and I hope it continues until they wake the fuck up, but they won't

They'll still be the same delusional ass-hats they always are

>>86876604
n-no it's not fair bros ;_;

>>86876332
We ALL know what happens next.

1. Marvel does something retarded/Jewish.
2. Instead of letting their competition die of stupidity, DC tries to follow suit but twice as hard.
3. Both companies crash and burn in a hellstorm of retardation.
4. Panicking, they trigger their dead man switches and nuke the entire industry.
5. The American comics industry dies AGAIN.

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>Mosaic will not sell well
>/co/ will continue to bitch about "WHY DONT THEY MAKE NEW HEROES THAT ARENT LEGACY CHARACTERS"

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How do you think he's feeling right now?

>>86876843
Riiiight.

>>86876604
>implying marvwl drones arent elated cause now we cannhope for a rebirth type event

>>86876854

After the presidential debate last night? Probably pretty good.

>>86876849
Young Animal's bombing as well
So is Flintstones
And Thundercats/He-Man

>>86876849
I think the argument is that everything connected to this event is luke warm and has no interest.
Marvel is shit about marketing their books if they don't have a manufactured crisis to put in front of it.

>>86876889
He's actually a Trump supporter, so probably the exact opposite.

>>86876890
And Cyborg.

>>86876935
DC just can't get that google to succeed

>>86876364
>because Rich uses them as one of his main sources on what retailers feel

He actually doesn't; they're not listed in the Bestseller retailer list. He just happened to do an article about their tweets.

>>86876849
The problem is that modern marvel often churns out new characters with the personalities of damp cardboard

>>86876317
Champions already has hundreds of thousands or pre-orders already...

>>86876965
>not even Rebirth could make people give a damn for Cyborg.

wew lad

>>86876890

>Flinstones

Comic fans are just awful.

>>86876972
That will all go unsold.

Bravo, Marvel.

>>86876935
Also Death of Hawkman

>>86877003

So you haven't read it?

>>86876890
>So is Flintstones

Fuck. That's literally the only comic I'm actually spending money on right now.

>>86876504
>1 retweet
>0 responses
Kek, what a bunch of nobodies. Nobody even reads their useless tweets

>>86877003
See the replies
https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/783135832760782848

>>86876890
At just that one store, remember. I'm waiting for Rich's article for last week to see what a handful of retailers in the US are saying. If THEY'RE saying the same things then it's cause for concern.

>>86877070

No, it's excellent, and if comic fans aren't appreciating it, thats just sad.

>>86876317
>>86876707
Do people really believe large companies waste their money on shilling /co/?
There's less than 2000 of us at most, at least half of whom don't read comics, and of that half only maybe 20% buy big 2 comics regularly.
That's 200 people at best they might influence to buy a 3-5$ comic. And no, we aren't trend-setters either. Believe it or not, those are just very dedicated fanboys and shitposters.
Source of traffic: https://catalog.neet.tv/stats.html and my ass.

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>>86877088
>
Fucking why.

>>86876952
What the fuck happened to Spidey's proportions

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>>86876317
>Champions is dead
CAN'T #WOKE UP

>>86877088
>people who read the comic like it
>casuals complaining about muh childhood

Seems about right

>>86877111
>>86877081
>>86877003
>>86876890
Flintstones isn't exactly expected to do Batman numbers though. And Young Animal might be more around Vertigo numbers.

>>86877275
Ramos is cool like that

>>86877088
>>86877178
Most of them are calling it good though, there's just 3 assholes reacting negatively about "muh ruined childhood" which would happen anyway.

>>86877306

Muh childhood isn't even a legit complaint here.

What, were these people kids in the friggin' 60s? Plus - wasn't it aimed towards adults originally, like a very, very early Simpsons?

>>86877306
>That one person begging for Young Justice Season 3

>>86877088
It's not like flintstones were that good.
Most of the time it was more a place filler for better stuff for me.

>>86876890
I don't think DC ever expected any of those to sell super high. Outside of Saga and Walking Dead, most non-Big Two books sell over like 15k at their peak.

>>86877172
The vast majority of people on 4chab don't post even /v/ /pol/ and /b/ have small percentages of their viewers posting

>>86876890
>Young Animal's bombing as well
Because Gerard way is not advertising it at all on social media. There's no way those millions of followers wouldn't generate a 5k bump which would basically save the line

>>86876854
Laughing his ass off in his giant ass mansion. Should ask that about the Marvel writers.

>>86877475
>MCR fangirls see Gerard promoting Young Animal
>They decide to see if it's good
>"Where can I buy comics?"

>>86877395
Yes, it was basically a cartoon version of the Honeymooners. Some episode plots were actually taken verbatim.

>>86877551
Jared Leto DC imprint when?

>>86876317
As someone who actually was a Marvel intern, there are no Marvel interns who post online shilling.
>inb4 what are you doing right now
I no longer work there and think modern marvel is shit

>>86877635
How was it?

>>86877081
Same here. I've already preordered the tpb.

>>86877668
I actually liked working there, I worked with editorial, it was fun

>>86876216
B-but Solo looks great.

Why is Marvel so inconpetent right no?
Why do DC snatched almost all the big name writers from them?
Why do they keep hiring webcomic-tier writers?

Is it all Alonso's fault?

>>86877475
>>86877551
It really is weird.

I mean, he basically stopped his Twitter...without actually directing people to either his Instagram (where he's still posting and marketing the YA books) or to his website (where he's doing his unique weird stuff and quietly marketing the YA books).

But...it's just nothing. Like, he just stopped posting on it in June.

To also be fair, though, Didio said that Young Animal would remain as an imprint under Way's vision until Way says otherwise.

>>86877082
Fuck off Marvel shill. Big Bang Comics is literally one of the biggest and most influential LCS and in many ways speak for the entire retailer community more often than not. If they say Marvel is finished then Marvel is finished and that's a FACT.

>>86876890
He-Man/Thundercats was sold out, from the comic shop, that i tried to picked it up.

>>86877710
This is what happens when you keep doing the same shady business practice and expect it to yield the same results.

>>86877745
Maybe Ireland just doesn't have the nostalgic connection?

>>86877320
>Flintstones isn't exactly expected to do Batman numbers though
No, but the fact that Scoobie Doo Apocalypse and Future Quest are both doing almost twice the numbers despite being absolute shit in comparison "really makes you think."

>>86877728
>Didio said that Young Animal would remain as an imprint under Way's vision until Way says otherwise
Is this a wise thing? They're doing the same with the Wildstorm line and Ellis...An imprint too dependent on the wishes of one single creator?

>>86877776
Do you have the numbers of the sales?

>>86877779
They aren't absolute shit in comparison

>>86876965
Putting creative nobody cares about with pitches that nobody wants to fuckit g read seems like a sure fire way to make a failure.


Seriously the cartoons have made Cyborg DC most popular black character and every Cyborg writer thinks the appeal is that he's a Depressed Black Frankenstein.

Christ just write the fucking Fratboy who says Booyah (in something close to his cartoon costume) and print money.

>>86877395
It was shown on CN in the 90s when it was mostly a kiddie channel... alongside Looney Tunes shorts that were also originally aimed at adults.

>>86877807
>Putting creative nobody cares about with pitches that nobody wants to fuckit g read seems like a sure fire way to make a failure.

Sounds a lot like what Marvel is doing linewide

>>86877779

Hey, Future Quest is kind of slow, but don't be knocking Scooby Doo Apocalypse. That shit is compelling.

Although it looks like they're going the route of making Scrappy the big bad again and that totally worked ONCE, they shouldn't retread that.

>>86877806
They absolutely are. Future Quest is decent, but mostly a whole shitload of wasted potential. Scoobie-Doo is barely mediocre. Flintstones on the other hand is the best book DC is putting out right now by an extremely wide margin.

>>86877796
Honestly it's not like it matters in comic books. Quality almost never has anything to do with sales. The last book I can think that actually gained a huge following because of quality was Johns' Green Lantern, and even then I think it was more people liking the idea of Rainbow Lanterns and they hype/event power of Sinestro Corps War.

>>86877471
Source on that? Because I couldn't even find proper source for board traffic.
Even then I doubt it's a large enough difference that we're a worthwile marketing target, just look how negatively most of /co/ reacts to most current marketing tactics/gimmicks.

>>86876972
Because of le variants meme...

>>86877851
It's really not. I enjoy the book but you faggots overrate it so much

>>86877475
Yeah that is weird as shit. One would have thought that'd be like the first priority of having a whole imprint curated by the dude, telling his millions of followers about it.

>>86877451
They're actually pretty decent as an adult, I was pleasantly surprised.

>>86876421
>he's an arrogant prick
In a Marvel comic? Unheard of!

>>86877687
Be truthful, who was the worst person to work with?

>>86877843
>but don't be knocking Scooby Doo Apocalypse
Don't worry, everyone else did

>>86877172
>do people really believe large companies waste their money on shilling

what do you think advertising is?

>>86877744
Rich please stop spouting delusions

>>86877635
I have a hard time believeing nobody at Disney shills somewhere online. Just not fucking here, we're way too irrelevant.

>>86876972
Most of which were to Scholastic....

>>86877744
>Implying a shop from fucking Ireland is influential

>>86877710
Marvel has been at various degrees of incompetence since Jim Shooter left.
You can deduce why.

>>86877933
Really no one was bad, I'm being honest. They all were very professional and courteous. This may have been because I did good work (that really anyone could do) and am also professional and courteous but still. They intentionally kept me away from Brevoort though, so I assume he'd be shitty to work with.

>>86876843
it's like one of their characters. they oversell as many copies as possible so newbies by issues that are worthless, kill the characters, then bring the character back which makes the literary meaning of their past death meaningless, like jesus. then they can peddle some more bullshit in motel night stands

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Shit man I've been a Marvel fan for years, still am, most of the shit I read is still Marvel but all this bad news for them brings me the most gleeful sense of schadenfreude.

>>86877944
>let me ignore the actual point of the post

>>86876890
>Young Animal's bombing as well
Didn't Doom Patrol do super numbers? Some LCS owner replied to BigBangComics saying Shade did super well with them as well.

>>86877944
Something that reaches more than 1000 potential buyers (who are pretty much already set in their way on what they will or won't buy)?

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Stand back guys
Here comes the savior of Marvel comics

>>86878076
Disney will turn every Marvel character to a caricature of any kind.

>>86876843
5 never happens. The only dead man switch they have is the reset button that brings everyone back to step one.

>>86878076
>We've hit rock bottom.jpeg

Why are we giving so much attention to a shop in fucking Ireland

>>86878076
>inb4 /co/ says it's good when it comes out because they attach a semi-competent team to that book
Looking at you Hastings and Gurihiru.

>>86878131
>Who is Spider-Ham
>what is the animal universe
>Imabigfatfuckingcasual.jpeg

>>86878171
/co/ is /v/ 2.0 now

>>86878076

House of ideas.

>>86876216
Wasn't he talking about in Europe? As much as I love seeing nuMarvel tank, I wouldn't use the foreign first run market as a huge indicator of things to come.

>>86878185
People have been saying this for at least 5 years
and it's always been true

>>86878171
>>86878185
It's just an excuse to talk about the state of current Marvel. Ironically, you're the ones taking the twitter drama too seriously.

>>86877172
There's a regular Marvel intern who comes here to shill the latest MCU movie every time. He's not even subtle about it and the first time he came here he actually made a trip. He's insufferable.

>>86877172
Thank you for Correcting the Record.

>>86876976
fag

>>86876890
>>86877475
Doom Patrol sold out its first printing you dildos.

>>86877836
Duckpool

>>86878252
>.05 cents has been deposited into your account

>>86878243
>facts and statistics are irrelevant because I say so
Frankly you're beginning to seem like a DC shill

>>86878298
He says after literally citing his own ass.

>>86878215
That's assumption nigga.

>>86878243
>>>/tv/

>>86878364
>That's assumption nigga.
No, he even admitted it. His original trip was Marvel Intern and he was posting insider info about Civil War, which turned out to be true. He got rid of the trip, but it's pretty obvious when he's posting as he types with a thesaurus at hand.

>>86878183
This is Gwenpool #2, anon. Don't deny that shit.

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>>86878409
>No, he even admitted it. His original trip was Marvel Intern

>>86878409
>he types with a thesaurus at hand.
He has a pet dinosaur? Cool

>force customers to increase orders to get shinies
>all your #1s are trash and don't sell and will rot on the shelves forever
>doesn't matter because miscellaneous Disney Jew #5734 already got his million dollar bonus for increasing quarterly sales

>>86878503
Well yeah that's how large companies (and sadly often countries) are run.

Was Marvel already slowing down before Rebirth? Or did they just fall down dead in the last 3 months?

>>86878554
No, ANAD tanked also.

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>>86878174
>people say an enjoyable book with a good writer and good artists is good
WHO'D HAVE THOUGHT?

>>86876504
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU READ THIS, BOTTOM TO TOP OR TOP TO BOTTOM?

FUCKING TWITTER ISN'T THE PLACE TO WRITE STUFF THIS LONG

>>86876216
>doom patrol outsold amazing spider-man

>>86878620
Yeah, Twitter is a pile of shit. Sometimes I'll read it top to bottom only to realize it's supposed to be read bottom to top and vice versa.

>>86878595
>good
Eh.
I preferred some other works from Hastings by far, and I think Gurihiru's style lacks dynamism.
As I said, competent, which is more than most other Marvel books.

>Our sales are 25% of what it used to be on Deadpool a few years ago.

>>86878714
>He made a good point! Better respond with "OPINIONS" lest I be made to look a fool!

>>86878554
The huge drop offs between #1's and #2's and low reader retention following slowing started to happen before Rebirth, but if these lcs testimonies are any indication, they didn't start to hurt sales until Rebirth happened.

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>>86878190
Gas the Muties
Race war now

>>86878409
Do not ever call me a thesaurus.

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jesus fuck did marvel take a month off?

>>86878743
Are you legitimately retarded? Do you not know what an argument consists of?
You posted your opinion that it was enjoyable and good first.

>>86878786
Well there's Star Wars
Are the recent Star Wars comics good?

>>86878817
One word, meh.

I enjoyed better when Dark Horse pubblished them. The Marvel stuff is subpar.

>>86878786
>Just Amazing SM and Star Wars stuff
Damn son...they better step up their game.

>>86878786
I'm surprised Black Panther has this much traction.

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Meanwhile at the House of Ideas...

>>86876216
I blame Bendis. His CW2 soured a lot if people.

Also, giving a lot of books to obscure/c-listers isn't always a good idea. Slapstick is one thing but I don't see Solo or Mosiac breaking records.

>>86878903
Do you think they'd even care at this point?

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>>86878817
Recent Star Wars has been good. The Darth Vader ongoing has been fantastic.

The limited series vary. Lando was good, Leia was boring, Han Solo is good so far. I didn't read Chewbacca.

>>86878554
ANAD kinda flopped. Some titles dropped below where they were pre ANAD much earlier. I think only Dr Strange and Iron Man benefitted.

>>86878975
I'm confused, why wouldn't they?

>>86878975
Comics division should...if they don't want the mouse to shut them down

>>86878903
I doubt it.

Marvel continues the same tactic. Ruining good and iconic characters, killing off the others, replacing them with new that no ones give a guck, in order to pander SJW's, and chase phantomatic "new" readers, while enraging the old readership which is the majority that buys their comics. Marvel needs to push the reset button, and bring back what make them big in the first place. What their fans want. This is what DC did with Rebirth, and their fans and readers rewarded them.

>>86878975
Judging by the way they comics guys were on twitter bitching about 'spoilers' and leaks, they're butthurt.

How long will it take for the Disney branch to put some new people in charge of the comics?
I can't imagine that the Mouse cares too much about the minuscule amounts that the comics bring in, but it still hurts the brand overall.

>>86878786
>Black Panther #5 is Marvel's third best-selling comic
Those numbers are very respectable for a non-#1, I'm impressed. How is it doing so well?

>>86879093
might be the writer

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>>86879093
Ta-Nehisi Coates
I'm surprised he's doing more than 12 issues.

>>86879059
If Disney wants to do something good for Marvel, shoud stop to interfere and keep their agendas out of the comic books. Let Marvel to make the X-Men big again. Stop with this SJW's bullshit and the crap Bendis's events. Keep Bendis to lesser books.

>>86879030
Mouse isn't going to shut them down. But it could be possible that they would very likely fire the hire ups at marvel and replace them.

>>86879093
Beats me. Maybe that Coates guy has some real pull. I find his BP kinda boring.

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>>86879044
See that's not even close to be the core problem.
Incompetence in editorial and writing is the problem, I'll take all the forced race/sex/sexualitybends in the world as long as they stories are written with some fucking competence.
That shit isn't, it's just the latest failing tactic to compensate for incompetence.

>>86879147
That black guy looks so disinterested in being there.

>>86879153
I heard that in the Mouse Kingdom every division has to generate profits by itself.

>>86879180
He'll probably never come back to comics again when he's done with BP after what happened at NYCC.

>>86879208
What happened?

>>86879180
I believe this was right after he had to sit in a meeting with a bunch of white people on how they were going to kill War Machine mainly due to being black.

>>86879059
It hurts the brand financially, but as long as they think they can use as an adaptable material factory it should be fine.

>>86879151
Nigga you're saying that like editorial shitjobs and heavyhanded agenda-pushing don't predate the Disney aquisition by decades.

>>86879180
He's a newbie to comics and almost right after being hired to write BP he had to go to that summit where they pitched the heap of shit known as Civil War 2.

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>>86879208
what happened?

>>86878786
/co always bitches about comics being renumbered/using new #1's to get sales brags about a month where every DC comic is a #1 or #2 when they ship bi-weekey now

>>86879223
Marvel """""creative"""" summit about CWII

>>86879147

probably it's just fun for him bc he's not super invested in the industry

>>86879180
Wouldn't you?

>>86879147
>Ta-Nehisi
Marvel is so progressive that they hire Na'vi as writers.

>>86879203
Isn't Marvel Studios part of that branch? Sounds fine to me.

>>86879208
What happened? Is it about the Peter David thing?

>>86879261
kek

>>86879241

/co/ is at war with marvel
/co/ has always been at war with marvel

>>86879217
>>86879237
SJW numale cucks took over every Q&A and were asking him why he hasn't solved all of the world's race and diversity problems by writing Black Panther.

>>86879174
And the incompetence starts with pushing the actual character and story to the side for the identity politics bullshit. Of course everything is in the execution, but the concepts are so shit across the board, they've made the execution that much more difficult.

>>86879232
That's what I mean though, the comic division should basically be used to test out characters/plotlines for the films. Unless that's what they're doing, which would be troublesome.

>>86879262
They're their own division now. Marvel Studios it's independent from the comics and tv side.

>>86879174
It's not only that. I agree about the quality. But let's face it a popular character is a popular character. It's what bring someone in the comic book shop. Killing off the Hulk, and Wolverine, turning Steve to a Nazi, etc it's hurting Marvel. We like it or not, most of the comic book fans are character fags. They are buying these books for the characters they grew up with, watch the cartoons and the movies, and play up with. When you ruin a favorite and beloved character or a franchise (see X-Men for example), it's like you break a contract with your clients.

>>86879241
That's the newest data available. September sales aren't public yet.

>>86879282
In non retard speak please, with actual citations rather than buzzwords?

>>86879274
>/co/ has always been at war with marvel

It only really began MCU was in full force and AvX shitting the bed.

>>86876216

Good. Mosiac & Solo are destined to sell terribly.

>>86879292
>And the incompetence starts with pushing the actual character and story to the side for the identity politics bullshit.
It really doesn't, it started 20 years before that.

>the concepts are so shit across the board, they've made the execution that much more difficult.
Yeah because we never had shit concepts before Whor and Kamala. And I don't mean the occasional shit concept, I mean huge events based on shit concepts.

>>86879332
Who the fuck is solo.

>>86879237
>>86879267
>Last night Ta-Nehisi Coates attended his first Comic Con panel at NYCC 2016 and, judging by his facial expressions, it might be his last. The panel, titled in the program Race & Gender: a Conversation with Ta-Nehisi Coates & Steve Orlando, was to feature him, DC writer Steve Orlando (Midnighter, Virgil), and be moderated by Professor Jonathan Gray, but as you might have noticed and raised an eyebrow at the all-male panel, a late addition was added and Miz Caramel Vixen, creator of #BlackComicsMonth, joined the writers and professor onstage. And it wasn’t long until things got weird. And then weird turned awkward. And then awkward turned into Coates eventually hailing a cab in front of me on 37th and 11th avenue having left the Javits Center and running for freedom with the Chariots of Fire theme music playing softly from nowhere. But I’m getting ahead, let’s back up here. Why was it weird?

http://blacknerdproblems.com/ta-nehisi-coates-attended-his-first-nycc-panel-and-lord-i-hope-hell-come-back/

>>86879274
Come on.

Marvel right now sucks. Deserves the current treatment. At least this could wake them up.

>>86879346
Marvel's version of a Wildstorm character.

>>86879297
It probably is what they're doing, and if they're allowed some level of failure (which admittedly they probably aren't) this is just a bump on the road.

>>86879303
Doesn't the TV side make enough to excuse the current poor comics output then?

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>>86879357
>The panel brought up topics of contention in the nerd community — “diversity” as a buzzword, the “big 2” of Marvel and DC versus independent publishers, who’s allowed to write what types of characters — but what made it awkwardly hilarious was the increasing demand for answers from audience members from a place where answers would not be found. From the first 10 minutes Ta-Nehisi seemed to realize that he, as a powerful voice and a writer for Marvel, was being seen as a powerful voice within Marvel with the ability to storm corporate conference rooms to change Romani representation, greenlight superhero crossover series, and solve every fan’s problems. I felt I could almost pinpoint the moment he perhaps realized he wasn’t talking about comics with other people who loved comics, he was being held accountable for comics by people who were angry at comics.

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>>86879346
This guy

>>86879357
>Miz Caramel Vixen
Oh, c'mon.

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>>86879389
>With the onslaught of attacks against Marvel and DC — two publishers that many of us, including Ta-Nehisi, grew up with and loved — empathetic audience members might’ve wanted to send him a sign, a blink code, something to say “it’s not normally like this” as the tone of “eff the Big 2” — an actual quote of the night — was painting his first experience of the largest convention in his own city. If I were him I would have believed myself trapped in a genjutsu, because how could this be real life? In one instance dialogue turned to Roxanne Gay’s signing as the first Black woman to write for Marvel, to which Miz Caramel Vixen — a long-time supporter of diverse comics — explained why some have suggested it a slight against Black women writers who have been in comics a long time, and that those people found it “shady.” “If it’s shady for Roxanne, then it’s shady for me to be here, too,” Coates replied, not out of anger, but seemingly out of exasperation towards our collective propensity to balk at a Black writer’s success, to make perfection in diversity the enemy of good. And the hits kept coming at Marvel and its new, involuntary-but-de-facto figurehead, along with DC’s analog in Steve Orlando who looked one wrong question away from “I’m just here so I don’t get fined.”

>>86879389
jesus

>>86879312
That's fair, but that thing has happened many, many times over the years and it had nothing to do with diversity, and all to do with lazy thinking like "well, character X is stale now, better legacy that shit".
See: Spider family (notably clone saga with Peter retiring), Wolvie family.

>>86879357
>Miz Caramel Vixen
sounds like the name of a middle class "escort".

>>86879423
>Audience members keeping score could count the number of strategies Orlando and Coates used in response to the recurring discomfort, like rifling through your weapons inventory to see if you have anything that could be effective for a scenario in which you didn’t expect to find yourself. Passivity, directness, and assertiveness were all met with a continuance of negativity to the point that questions were inevitably followed with a 5-second pause while Orlando and Coates passed psychic messages of “you got this one?” One question challenging the decision-making of Marvel, yet again, and shortcomings of art, led to Coates resigning, “I don’t know why anyone reads anything or does anything…” before following up to discuss different people’s motivations for reading and his own internal struggle in quantifying the utility of art. The panel’s success, from my seat, was an exploration in fandom’s diversity of expectations more than the panelists sharing their perspectives on diverse representation in writing.

>>86879423
>genjutsu
>“I’m just here so I don’t get fined.”

Naruto and Marshawn Lynch reference? A black person wrote this no doubt.

>>86879319
Fans who attended his diversity panel at NYCC were largely the upset kind. It's nothing new for a con but it was his first. Must have been an unpleasant surprise.

Between that and the way Marvel stepped all over his plea against killing Rhodes at the summit I wouldn't be surprised if he left comics as soon as his BP run is done.

>>86879455
>There’s an old scene from The Simpsons where Bart and Lisa heckle baseball star Darryl Strawberry from the stands. When Marge suggests it’s not very nice the kids reply “they’re used to this sort of thing,” secure in the knowledge it rolls right off their backs as a secret tear wells in Strawberry’s eye. The scene came to mind as Coates hailed his taxi: a professional writer, undoubtedly having faced worse, yet facing the expectations to answer for something much larger than him, than any of us individually, in a realm that was meant to bring joy. I thought of asking to discuss the panel, to hear how he felt about questions he was asked and expected to answer, but the man deserved peace. Creators have a lot to answer for in their work, and that’s part of the fear that debilitates so many from achieving their goals, but that with which any published writer has likely come to terms. What might be unexpected is reaching a level of popularity that your status as a writer is seen to carry more power than what you can squeeze from a pen. And it’s the punches you don’t see coming that hit the worst. Ta-Nehisi Coates will hopefully be in comics a long time, and this experience — strange is it may have been — will hopefully be put into perspective with many more panels to come.

>>86879357

the saddest part is that sounds like such a great panel. but i also love orlando and TNC's work.

his twitter seemed like he had fun at the con tho, signed on for another 12 issues of Black Panther

>>86879461
Well it is from Blacknerdproblems.com

>>86877172
>That's 200 people at best they might influence to buy a 3-5$ comic
Still more potential buyers than sjw on twitter

>>86879477

>There’s an old scene from The Simpsons where Bart and Lisa heckle baseball star Darryl Strawberry from the stands. When Marge suggests it’s not very nice the kids reply “they’re used to this sort of thing,” secure in the knowledge it rolls right off their backs as a secret tear wells in Strawberry’s eye.

cough cough /co/

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>>86879346
>he hasn't read Revenge of the Sinister Six
I'm not gonna argue it's good, but it's 90stastic.

>>86876890
Flinstones deserves a lot of love. I never liked the cartoon, but the comic is fantastic.

>>86879440
It doesn't work always. For example Wolverine is not the kind of legacy character. It 's like trying to turn Punisher to a legacy character. Just doesn't work.

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>>86879423
>If I were him I would have believed myself trapped in a genjutsu

>>86879541
Agreed.

>>86879543
I think it never works but then again I'm an asshole.

>>86879389

Why would Coates care about "romani representation"?

The fuck does that even mean? Dr.Doom, Scarlet Witch & Quicksilver are gypsies

>>86879601
There was some gypsy going around derailing every panel with his pet issue.

>>86879312

Hulk hasn't been able to carry a comic this fucking decade.

Complaining about HYDRA Cap now is just stupid, it's clearly a long plot that's 4 issues deep. Like did you think CapWolf was gonna be permanent?

>>86879518
Yet Whor sells more than Gwenpool.

>>86879601
G*psies is a slur you shitlord

>>86879357
>>86879389
>>86879423
>>86879455
>>86879477
Amazing
However Blacknerdproblems is on a huge fucking high horse there, when they pretty much exist to foster the culture that makes a panel like this so shit

>>86879601
Peter David sperged out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4QuxCNe89g

wait, so someone asked the same Romani question to Coates at that panel?

fucking hell

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>he wasn’t talking about comics with other people who loved comics, he was being held accountable for comics by people who were angry at comics.

-/co/

>>86879614
Is Whor good now?

>>86879592
Wally West, Kyle Rayner and Dick Grayson prove otherwise.
Even at Marvel so much of the X Line is based around legacy type stuff, however so much of that was done by one writer.

>>86877902
>>86877728
He's got 1.2m followers on Instagram where he posts a shitload about Young Animal and like 1.5m on Twitter

It's not like nobody is looking at his Instagram

>>86879455
>discuss different people’s motivations for reading and his own internal struggle in quantifying the utility of art.
That actually sounds interesting.

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>>86879524
>Mysterio with two machine guns
>Doc Oc's arms holding machine guns

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>>86879655

>>86879663
Nah but it's been selling.

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>>86879638

>Implying Doom is a villain

Fuck this fat fuck

>>86879613
Yet killing off Banner, and replace him with another Hulk, what would change? Suddenly would gain popularity? It's the stories that sucked, not the character.

As for Cap, this is the same kind of the forced wtf moments that the comics have done to the nausea. I know of course that will not last, but then again it's annoying and yet boring to see the same trick used once again. And the worse is that doesn't surprise anymore.

>>86879638
Why is he talking like he's telling a ghost story?

>>86879357
>>86879389
>>86879423
>>86879455
>>86879477
https://mobile.twitter.com/tanehisicoates/status/785264854047293441

>>86879641
Probably wants to stir shit up. Fucking christ is everyone who wants to "talk" about comics just attention whores now?

>>86879641

One asshole trying to make it seem like his opinion is a bigger issue than it seems.

Also, like David pointed out, Gypsy culture is one big disgusting sham. When a hardcore liberal like David isn't hearing that shit then idk who would.

>>86879669
>Wally West, Kyle Rayner and Dick Grayson prove otherwise.
Disagreed. I like Wally but he's hardly necessary.

>Even at Marvel so much of the X Line is based around legacy type stuff
And it mostly sucks.

>>86879360
Indeed. They chose their audience and it got them low sales and this embarrassing con. Have fun with all those fake nerds and social activists Marlel.

>>86879761
Damn

>>86879779
>somehow thinks Wally is "unnecessary" after COIE
Retard
>doesn't like Claremont X Men
pleb

>>86879346
Back in the 90s Marvel and DC each made about a dozen characters who were generic mercenaries exemplifying every trope of the decade. Solo was one of the ones that somehow lasted as a D-lister. Personally I like Chance better.

>>86879726
>it's annoying and yet boring to see the same trick used once again.
Well welcome to comics. That's been the last 75 years of it.

This is why it's easy to out people as non-readers/new readers. None of this is new or groundbreaking, yet they act like it is. Like we should only just now be getting outraged.

>>86879638
Did he just wikipedia the characters and did he just try and shitpost in real fucking life?

>>86879761

Coates finally got to see what modern comic "fans" are like. I wouldn't blame him if he left the industry entirely.

>>86879840
The worst part is I highly doubt 50% of those people even read comics

>>86879832

Of course he did. Do you think assholes like this actually read comics?

>>86879761
>boo hoo why aren't there more women
Good riddance.

>>86879872
Coates responded with the most polite version of "what the fuck are you talking about, fuck this shit I'm out"

>>86879761
>Do you have leverage to ask for more women

jesus christ these people

>>86879896
When you give a mouse a cookie.

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>>86877003
It deserves more readers.

It's Prez all over again.

>>86876216

Already signs of it in the air the beginning of this year:

https://archive.is/eN8Vy

Old readers are leaving in droves and are not coming back, while Tumblr is not capable of replacing the "whales" cape comics have now lost.

Silver lining in the storm cloud, at least stuff like the new Sandman is doing decent, so people buying comics have not gone anywhere, people are just finally fed up with the lack of quality on superhero comics that has been plaguing it for a decade now.

>>86879821
No it's not that simple.

And highly doubt that a potential new fan that has Chris Evans's picture in his mind, would be thrilled by such stupid gimmick like the Hydra Cap. In fact the sales are the testimony of how much was appreciated.

>>86878120
This. The ride never ends.

>>86879813
You can do that with any time traveller with a similar story, he doesn't have to be called "the Flash" or be a legacy.
I like a lot of Claremont just not his unending Summers/Grey faggotry.

>>86879933
Most cape readers don't want to read progressive propaganda and that's a good thing.

>>86876843
The industry is a zombie that has a growing but slim chance of resurrection

>>86876843
What do you mean by Deadman's switch? What could they possibly have buisnesswise that kills the entire industry? Them failing at all automatically does that

>>86879726

I feel like calling it a replacement is strange, Jen's her own person long established separate from Hulk.

>forced wtf moments that the comics have done to the nausea

yeah it's called plots.

>>86879941
>And highly doubt that a potential new fan that has Chris Evans's picture in his mind, would be thrilled by such stupid gimmick like the Hydra Cap

These are the only ones who are actually mad. Who were cursing at James Gunn on Facebook for some reason about them turning a jewish creation into a nazi.

This is the only fanbase of Marvel right now. Old guard and whales have already left.

Marvel needs to hit a rock bottom like DC did to realize people like you aren't worth pandering to and come back with a Rebirth of their own.

>>86879968
But Wally was already Kid Flash for years, and years why would he not overtake the mantle.
Legacy doesn't mean progeny you fucking retard. Just the New X Men alone are legacy characters.

>>86879994
I think he means Cho, aka Chulk

>>86879896
Seriously, missing the point that hard.
Honestly though you should never approach socio-political topics in public with plebs if you aren't a politician forced to do so.

>>86880006
When did DC hit rockbottom in the way you're referencing? They've never done the pandering thing

>>86879994
>yeah it's called plots.

This. Every fucking few months when a new storyline happens, people on tumblr and /co/ seem to be freaking out that "things are happening" in their comic book.

>>86880006
The whales are still there if Amazing Spider-Man is still selling like it does. Once it hits 40k is when we know Marvel is in the deepest shit they will never get out of.

>>86879632
They need to put these pannels on lockdown.

No more just yelling shit out and asking what ever flits across your mind

Questions should be screend and loud voices should be ejected

>>86879933
It's better than Prez.

>>86879994
I was not speaking for Jennifer. But for the other Hulk.

No it's not called plots. Just lazy writing.

i'm still enjoying a good % of marvel books. i'm more interested in the company the past 2 years or so than i had been in awhile.

>>86880006

i'm still super pissed at how they tried to use Kirby as some trump card

>>86880022

My bad! also banner wasn't dead for awhile in that book

>>86879696
>Electro has future guns
>Vulture has machine guns

>>86880031
DC You was an attempt at courting that market. It just continued the descent that New52 started.

Rock bottom was a little excessive, but they were on the decline. They tried to "reach a new audience", twice, and it didn't work, so they want back to trying to reach comic fans, and it did work.

>>86880046
I don't know why questions aren't screened in general. That Mars SpaceX conference was hilarious with this kind of shit.

>>86879968
>You can do that with any time traveller with a similar story, he doesn't have to be called "the Flash" or be a legacy
This sounds so fucking dumb and far worse than what they did with Wally in every possible aspect. Basically you wanted DC to abandon the Flash character after they killed Barry (who was already a fucking legacy!) because you can't handle the concept of legacies? Are you actually autsitc?

>>86880051

you said dead, i thought you meant she hulk since her book is coming out after he's dead. not cho-hulk where bruce was alive and maybe costarring? I know Pak wrote a send off issue.

i would say having a character appearing in a lot of books across the line with a secret agenda is the opposite of lazy. there's a lot of coordination going on

>>86880065
Rebirth can partially be seen as pandering since they're going back to what they abandoned in the first place.

>>86880015
Kid Flash was basically a legacy character to begin with.
>It's the Flash.... but he's a kid!
Maybe I'm using "legacy" wrong, I'm mostly talking about characters piggybacking on name recongnition.

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>>86880047
From the same writer. And yeah it is better. I am very surprised.

>>86879174

This. SJWism in Marvel is a sign of a symptom, its not the disease itself. SJWs and hack writers like Bendis are the maggots feasting on Marvel's corpse that is rotting inside-out. You can remove them but it doesnt fix the core problem.

>>86880046
Questions absolutely need to be screened and they need to not apologize for doing it. Like when some cuck gets on twitter and starts bitching that their retarded question didn't go through they don't cater to them

>>86878076
Why is Donald duck wearing the Deadpool costume?

So if it wasn't for Rebirth, a lot of comic shop would be in position to close down shop? Based DC literally saving the industry.

>>86876707
>Not interning at DC and getting /fit/ with the rest of the crew

>>86880075
My point is just make new characters not "hey we killed that guy, so here's that guy again sort of because we need the sales".

I can handle legacies fine, they're just uncreative as fuck.

>>86879761
>Liquid Swords as his profile pic

He's slightly less of a fag now.

I thought it was just Marvel makes money off movies and not comic books now with the opposite at DC

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>>86880031

>They've never done the pandering thing

>>86880101
You mean like the New X Men?
Barry is a legacy character dude.

>>86880189
DC makes money off movies too though.

>>86880092

rebirth is 1000% pandering. like good comics are coming but let's not fool ourselves

>>86880207
I can't believe you actually saved this. It's from a digital comic with rotating writers that literally no one read.

>>86880207
Didn't the writer get fired?

>>86880207
Okay 1 digital only comic. Still you know I meant in the marvel style of changing your entire line

>>86877172

4chan receives over 2million unique IP hits every day, yet only less than 10% of users ever post

>>86880233
People LOVE to bitch anon. Do not underestimate how much people love to bitch

>>86880189
You can't be this retarded.

>>86878786
>ASM 16 - 185,000
>ASM 17 - 74,000
Fucking HELL, what did they do to lose 100,000 readers in ASM 16?

>>86880088
You know already where it's heading to. This is predictable and boring.

>>86879941
>In fact the sales are the testimony of how much was appreciated.

100k sales on first printing, 13k on second, 27k on third?

I don't know bro 140k sold copies on one issue over three printings sounds pretty good.

Whether there's anybody actually reading those is another matter, but the retailers certainly ordered them by the truckload, and if they can't shift them then it's them losing money, not Marvel (or any other publisher through Diamond except DC, who switched their distribution model).

Thing is, DC's big "sales" - you go back and look at this data from the last time they used Sale or Return as a model, even on the best titles in the best years they're getting 45% of the print run returned.

http://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/batman.html
http://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/superman.html

And that's consistent with other publishers - look at Archie, which has always used SoR:

http://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/archie.html

They're sending back 60% of the print runs every month, on average, in most years. Funny thing - you take out 60% of DC's *sales (the numbers with an asterisk by them on comichron's monthly sales data) since they began Rebirth with SoR, and they're probably not much different to where they've been all year. Whereas you take any other non-SoR title for which this kind of data is available, and they're sending back between 5% and 15% if they're sending anything back at all, and most of that is probably down to misprintings and transit damage claims.

http://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights.html

There's a story here about the retailer-publisher relationship and sales figures, but Rich Johnston is too dumb to see it.

>>86880292
Isn't the Clone Saga starting this month? Maybe that's involved.

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>>86880233

Saved it? Just google "Wonder Woman" and "mansplaining" together and you find it instantly. Its stuck on the internet like shit in a wall, almost as hard as the pic related.

And a good thing too, with any DC shill trying to do any history revisionism. DC did try to pander to Tumblr way earlier than Marvel. So naturally they learned from their mistake much earlier than Marvel did and hopefully have finally stopped doing it for good.

>>86880217
> New X Men
Not really, they are new characters who aren't just taking an individuals' powerset, name and costume.
>Barry is a legacy character dude.
I never implied otherwise.

>>86880242
Source you faggot.

>>86880323
They hired the writer of that to do Batwoman

>>86880179
It's a fucking business you faggot. They have powerful brands and use them in ways that allow for more character diversity (not necessarily in the identity politics way, as is clear on this very subject we're talking about, the Flash), but they still need the brands to sell comics. If you want original unique standalone characters do not read big 2 comics. And I don't think it's uncreative to have Wally become the full blown flash. I think it's a good use of an expanded universe, they used that concept to create a unique rapore with his villains, as well as give Wally a unique place in the JL. It's fairly novel and creative to shared universe capes.

>>86880226
Pandering to their readership at least. You know those people that actually buy comics, instead to just pretend that they give a fuck about them.

>>86880323
It's not revisionist history, that's literally what it was. A digital first comic with rotating writers that no one fucking read.

>>86880326
But they use the Name and title of the group to sell the book. It's exactly what you complain about.

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>>86880241

>Okay 1 digital only comic.

More than just one. But yeah I get what you meant. They didnt go to full pandering mode as much as Marvel but they still went there.

>>86876890
>Mainline title isn't selling.
>Well these niche imprint titles aren't selling Batman numbers either!

>>86880349
She has a co-writer

>>86880402
Albequerque pulled that cover, not DC

>>86880392
Not exactly, no.
It requires more creativity to come up with 8ish genuinely new characters on a team that keeps its name than to come up with a 1-to-1 legacy.

>>86880382

>A digital first comic with rotating writers that no one fucking read.

Of course they didn't, which is why DC quickly learned that pandering to Tumblr isnt worth it when Tumblr itself doesnt actually read comics, only bitches about sexism in them.

>>86880402
Albuquerque pulled that cover, not DC. They didn't give a shit. You think if DC gave a fuck what tumblr thought they would have okay'd Timm's Killing Joke additions?

>>86880442
But then Waid, Morrison, Millar and Messner Loebs decided instead to expand the supporting cast and villain characterization and abilities of the Flash to compensate.
So if Wally shot dick lasers (imagine that was a creative power) it would have been okay? What if they just skipped straight to Bart and gave him time powers?

>>86880361
>It's a fucking business you faggot. They have powerful brands and use them in ways that allow for more character diversity (not necessarily in the identity politics way, as is clear on this very subject we're talking about, the Flash), but they still need the brands to sell comics.
I know you douche, you're not contradicting anything I said, I'm just saying just don't pretend it's artistically driven.
> I don't think it's uncreative to have Wally become the full blown flash
Yeah, it was at least half a step away. No other sidekick with the same powerset ever takes up a mantle.

>>86880452
They weren't pandering to anyone though, it's not like it was mandated to be written in that story. It was just a digital comic that they let new writers have a shot on. It was one writer injecting her own gender politics into something, not DC. Marvel is going out of their way to change their entire lineup into SJW pandering. It's hardly comparable.

>>86879669
yeah because Clairmont wanted to throw away his toys. Unfortunately the new characters he brought to the table didn't catch on like the first new batch of x-men did-I know there are some DIE HARD New Mutants fans out there but man they just did NOT, which is why almost all of the retired x-men came back.

>>86879709
Oh fuck off Bryne.

>>86880452
>>86879614

>>86879524
What the hell kind of guns is Hobgoblin holding? They look like giant stage lights

>>86880471
>But then Waid, Morrison, Millar and Messner Loebs decided instead to expand the supporting cast and villain characterization and abilities of the Flash to compensate.
Which they could have done either with Barry (or even Jay if you want) or a wholy new character.

>>86880497
You're the only one who has pretended anything at the big 2 is artistically driven or needs to be

>>86880516
Claremont made characters like Storm, Wolverine and Kitty insanely popular though, they are not original X Men

>>86876216
What the fuck happen to marvel? When did it got all gay. I miss the old marvel.

>>86880545
So what the fuck are you defending it for?
Are you an investor or someone who enjoys quality?

>>86876216
Well, looks like somebody isn't getting any hip-hop covers.

This thread got really stupid, really fast.

>>86880583
They're still fucking doing this?

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>>86876890
>Comparing Niche Titles with barely any push to fucking Champions with all that variant whoring
Try harder Disnigger

>>86880600
And Doom Patrol still sold out of its first printing.

>>86879389
>he wasn’t talking about comics with other people who loved comics, he was being held accountable for comics by people who were angry at comics
Shit man, I feel your pain.

>>86880599
Yes, to the extremes they are demanding a shop basically glut their store with Marvel books.
I think their is a few rare covers you only get from ordering 750

>>86880314

Please tell me? It's cape comics, the journey is the destination. and i'm really excited to see Mariko Tamaki do Marvel comics

>>86879389
>Ta-Nehisi seemed to realize that he, as a powerful voice and a writer for Marvel, was being seen as a powerful voice within Marvel with the ability to storm corporate conference rooms to change Romani representation, greenlight superhero crossover series, and solve every fan’s problems.
Oh christ these """""""fans""""""" probably don't even get that he doesn't work in the office.

>>86880314
I really don't, and I bet you don't either. And even if I did, I'm still interested, you fucking non comic reading idiot, go back to your Steven Universe General, filthy disgusting casual piece of shit.

>>86877451
>>86877904
The Flintstones cartoon is literally just the Honeymooners (a popular sitcom of the time) but animated and cavemen.

>>86880702
Not to mention, his last attempt at doing this very thing by writing a long essay on why killing off Rhodey in CWII would be a horrible idea and sending it to Alonso, Bendis and Brevoort, was met with "we hear you and respect your opinion, but no. Niggas gotta die."

>>86880570
because the MUH ARTISTRY complaint is retarded. Sometimes a corporate whip is good for art, like with Wally West, or to go in a different direction Tim Burton or Kevin Smith

>>86880730
Yes, we know anon, it was still a decent show.

>>86876216
This is why DC is killing the industry. Nobody is willing to buy new shit because Damage Control is flooding the market with muh nostalgia trash and destroying sales.

One thing I don't understand is, why doesn't Marvel go the story arc route? Not big crossover events who nobody cares about, but proper story arcs within superhero comics themselves that will change the status quo in some way? 2000AD comics have done this for decades, what exactly would prevent Marvel from doing it? Constantly rehashing and restarting everything is not going to bring in new readers because from the outside it just looks like nothing matters and constant relaunches are just a shameless attempt at cashing in on those #1's some dumbasses want to keep on collecting.

Do proper story arcs, self-contained adventures for the heroes, instead of doing big crossover events that ultimately don't do anything else but confuse the fuck out of readers. Judge Dredd Mega City 1 has faced tons of different crisis points in the comics run and as a result has a character of its own apart from Dredd himself. It adds in to the world building and overall immersion as well when events actually matter and change the world permanently. Doesnt even have to be anything drastic like killing off superheroes or new alternate universes. Just have Metropolis build a new memorial park for some big event, build new defence systems to prevent the last crisis and you got tons of new lore and potential stories from there.

>>86877172

Source? Is there really that few of us? I guess the more I think about it 2000 is still a fuckload of people for a community but I suppose I always assume an online community is bigger than that.

>>86880762
I'm not saying its BAD I'm pointing out why it's decent. It's recycling the characters and plots of a popular sitcom in animated form.

>>86876843
>DC
>following marlel
lol no

>>86880772
>Outhousers latest headline.txt

>>86880755
I'm not really seeing how it's good from your examples.
For Burton do you mean the Jon Peters influence on the Batman movies?

>>86880800
I mean his more recent output of miserable work because he no longer has a leash

>>86876890
Marvelfags are stupid.

>>86880783

why didn't you read his whole post? someone also ran numbers on the nycc sticky

File: 1453947776235.jpg (19KB, 168x168px) Image search: [Google]

19KB, 168x168px

>>86876843
>Mousketeers have fallen so far into despair that the best they can hope for is for D*sney to drag the hated competition down into the trash fire with them

>>86880783
There's a source in the post for replies/hour and /co/ peaks at under 1500. Of course that doesn't mean much.

It's easy to overestimate 4chan traffic because of anonimity.

>>86880775

that is what they are doing for the most part but you are blinded by i guess marketing and /co/ into thinking it's constantly a big shake up. also if the books are bad they're just bad.

>>86880817
Isn't that just him (and his schtick) getting old?

>>86880848

>that is what they are doing for the most part

Then they're doing a really shitty job at it. They should take tips from 2000AD

>>86880903
I mean we imported a shitload of British writers who worked on that mag and their big idea was this mess so.

thanks.

thanks for fucking up superheroes with a big middle finger to the bush administration you fucks.

>>86880861
He certainly doesn't have someone to tell him not to remake an old show no one watched as a film, or make a poem that's about the power of language into a major portion of an Alice and Wonderland film anymore. Some really shitty storytelling decisions that fall on his shoulders, that likely wouldn't have happened in the 80s