MoS and BvS are great films and always will be. This is coming

>>>/tv/

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>>86815116
>why didn't you like MoS/BvS
>I don't think Snyder understands and portrays Superman well
>NOT MUH

>>86815231
see
>>86814991

Fuck.just give me psychological thriler B v S with normal Lex and without Doomsday

>>86816383
but it was normal lex, it was just golden/silver age lex.

I think BvS makes MoS look kinda shitty in comparison. BvS feels like a movie, MoS is pretty much just a prologue.

>>86815751
>>86816824
what is this sorcery

>>86815116
>This is coming from a lifelong Superman fan
And as a moviegoer?

>>86815116
Oh yes, some anonymous jackoff on the internet likes it.
It must be good!

>>86815116
Those movies were a fucking piece of shit and the evidence is that a random anonymous has to come here to say "Come on guys, It's not that bad"

>>86819186
>Come on guys, It's not that bad
No, I said that they're GREAT.

Big difference.

0i9ugc

>>>>>>>>>>>/tv/

>>86815116
BvS is pretty shit, I haven't seen MoS but I doubt I'm missing out.

>>86816383
It was normal Lex, but I think you want a sexy anti-hero lex

>>86820465

Well this is already true, they will be cult classics in a decade while the quip verse will be forgotten, no one remembers the first avengers movie or thor

>>86815116
It made barely any sense and the character motivations where all over the place

>>86820465
The Blade Runner comparison is laughable, there'es nothing creative or challenging in BvS. And no, forced references to ealier works aren't that.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>/tv/

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>>86815116
It's been 7 months since the movie came out, and you crybabies are still throwing a temper tantrum because people don't share the same opinion as you.

>>86820780
Same with MoS

Soon to be same for WW and JL

Meanwhile everyone loves classics like the Reeve movies and the Raimi Spider-Man movies

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>>86820808
>phone poster has shit taste
the sky is blue

>>86815116
I don't care, pal. I really don't care. I don't even know why I'm replying. We've been at this for three years now. Just give it a rest. You're not going to change everyone's opinion.

It doesn't matter. It really doesn't. It's just a movie.

the director's cut of BvS is quite a bit better than the theatrical cut, not unlike what happened with Watchmen.

You should really watch it before you form an opinion on the movie. It changed my opinion from hating it to thinking it was just ok.

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>>86815116
Victory at expense of the innocents, is not a victory at all

>>86820937
But Watchmen is terrible as well, you'd know that if you read the comic.

I want /tv/ to leave.

>>86820961
Not this meme again.

The Watchmen film was an amazing adaptation.

>muh only got duh surface level
nah

>>86815116
We have this thread all the fucking time.

Almost every fucking day. From people like you who think they're actually good movies. Fuck off.

>>86820980
Eat shit baiter.

>>86815116
Theres no need to blow millons of dollars to try difrent interpretations.
And you should not be making fundamental changes to the moral center of your shared universe.

>>86820422
Remember how batman vs superman made pa kent into an incompetent farmer.
Now imagine that 50 times worse and for his values instead of his skills.

>>86820937
Did the directors cut of watchmen restore the ending, include the newsstand scenes (i can forgive not having the black ship stuff itself though (the easter egg of it was still incredibly insulting though)) or have a not terrible version of the assasination attempt.

>>86815116
Agreed.

>>86815116

You are allowed to hold your opinion when you can defend, in depth, why you believe these films are good. If you can't, you don't deserve your opinion, and you sure as fuck don't deserve to influence mine, you simpering fuckwit.

What, you think coming in here and saying "KINO KINO KINO MARVELFAGS BTFO" or whatever is gonna change things? You think talking about how you're a big Superman fan is gonna make us treat your opinion as objective fact? Nah, son, you gotta defend that shit.

And the hate for MoS and BvS isn't happening because people are "allergic to new things" - it's happening because the films are flaming garbage piles in regards to storytelling. They do not work as cohesive, coherent narratives. That is why critics and wider general audiences rejected the films.

Deal with it, Bitch-El.

>>86820937
Eeeh. Director's Cut didn't really fix all that much aside from actually giving us a reason why Superman doesn't like Batman, and even then it comes across as really forced and arbitrary.

>>86815116
If you have to specify that you're a fan and still like the stuff then that's already a sign they've missed the mark in some way.

If it were actually good and on point you wouldn't have to defend it in this manner.

>>86821333
what in the fuck does KINO even mean? I've been seeing it everywhere around here lately and google and urban dick has given me nothing

>>86823360
It means "film" in german

>>86823360
Kino is a meme word used to define something that uses cinematography and other techniques to make it brilliant filmmaking.

>>86823360

I don't know the full origin, but it's part of a /tv/ meme wherein movies are "graded" on a terminology scale ("flick", "film", you get the picture) and "kino" is the highest possible grade. By calling MoS or BvS "capekino", Bitch-Els like the OP are saying "these are the greatest comic book films ever made" - which is not just insane hyperbole and an attempt to turn subjective opinion into objective fact, but is also factually incorrect (everyone knows the greatest comic book film ever made is Blade 2).

>>86823387
>>86823400
I found that while searching but assumed it wasn't right, since that wasn't how it was used. I should've accounted for the meme/retard factor.

>>86815116
MoS and BvS are shit films.

The fact that you are so fixated on the "not muh's" and ignore all other valid criticisms says it all.

Yes, not muh is a non argument. And Superman in MoS and BvS is a non character. Same goes for Batman and the rest.

>>86815116

k

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>plebs can't understand these scenes

>>86823609
>valid criticisms
Name them.

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>>86815116

>>86823650

>plebs

You are not a king or an emperor. You are the same sack of blood, bones, and shit as everyone else.

>>86823669

Lousy editing, muddled motivations for Lex, "and then" storytelling that lacks in the sort of cause-and-effect momentum in a good story, crap CGI, an unwillingness to treat each film as its own self-contained story and address multiple hanging plot details within the runtime of the film, and the gigantic fucking plot hole of "Pa Kent takes a metal of alien origin to a fucking university to have it studied and, after being informed that it's unlike anything on Earth, is allowed to leave the grounds without an armed government escort or anything resembling a governmental or scientific inquisition as to the source of this alien metal".

>>86823669
>Shit pacing. Especially BvS jumping through scenes with no flux whatsoever
>shit plot, terrible characters and motivations all over the place
>shit acting
>boring action, especially MoS
>hamfisted imagery shoved everywhere
>lack of coversation, tons of cringe inducing "preaching" dialogue and expository dialogue


>B-But guys, trust me, the movies are totally great. NOT MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH

>>86823746
>>86823826

>>There is a psychological phenomenon called the Backfire Effect. Essentially, the more you try to convince someone they are wrong using facts and figures, the more convinced they become that their preexisting beliefs are correct

You are only making them stronger

>>86823873

So? He asked for valid criticisms of the two films. If he isn't prepared to keep an open mind and listen to the criticisms, then have a reasoned discussion about them wherein he might actually admit to being wrong about something, he shouldn't have asked for those criticisms.

If he just wanted to feel a smug sense of superiority, he should've just called it capekino and been done with it.

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>>86820465
>capekino
Wrong movie

>>86824072

I never said they were, and this conversation isn't about Marvel. Cute attempt at a deflection, though.

>>86823826
So opinions means valid criticism now.

Wow.

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>>86824072
The only one bring up Marvel is (You)
So I take it all you want is (You)s

>>86824090

Well, if you "CAPEKINO" fuckers believe opinions are objective facts...

>>86824085
>I never said they were
So where is this bitching whenever a Marvel thread pops up? Where are your "valid criticisms" then?

You just sound biased.

>>86824112

>So where is this bitching whenever a Marvel thread pops up?

Presumably waiting to be shat out of your ass like the rest of your opinions, Bitch-El.

>>86824107
Finish your thought rather than try to sound smart with elipses.

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>>86824112
You never post here do you?
take >>86815177 doubled advice and leave

>>86824138

Nah, I'd rather see if you can figure out where I was going.

>>86824133
>resorting to ad hominem
And now we reach the source.

>>86824157

>now we reach the source

OH FUCK NOT THE ARCHITECT

NOT AGAIN

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>the movie is shit
>why?
>because it's shit
The thread.

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>>86815116
more /tv/ bait. Why do people always bite......

I almost hope 4chan runs out of money and shuts down just so the /tv/ faggots don't know what to do with their time

>>86824209

>every single thread acts like every other thread about these fucking movies doesn't exist

>>86820957
You're right, Superman just should have let Zod kill all seven billion people.

>>86824286
He's talking about the writing, not the internal logic of the plot. How is it no one gets the distinction?

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I really liked both, and don't see why there's so much "Stop liking what I don't like/Stop liking what I like" around them. No one s going to change each others mind.

>>86824319
So you're saying Superman should never be challenged or written into scenarios that require a solution other than "solves the problem easily"? Because that's exactly what gives him the negative stigma he has today.

>>86824286

>if the movie wrote a scenario where the only way to save the world was to rape Zod it would qualify as good writing

>>86824386
It's a matter of execution and presentation. Some do genuinely wish for Superman to always find the solution so that he remains the beacon of hope. However, there is a middle ground that does not involve Superman making out with Lois Lane as human ash reigns down around them. It makes Superman seem a bit callous and uncaring for so many that died around him. There are many other moments like this strewn throughout MOS.

>>86824421
would watch the shit out of this tbqh

>>86824386

No, but he should be challenged in a way that holds up some consistency to the character known throughout the world. Superman striving to save people is the Superman we know; Superman fighting Zod and his minions to protect Earth is the Superman we know; Superman fighting Zod and his minions while allowing massive property damage and loss of life is NOT the Superman we know. That inconsistency may be written off as "NOT MUH KAL-EL", but when combined with the shit storytelling of MoS and BvS, it creates a sense of disconnect between what kind of character we know Superman is and what kind of character Snyder wants Superman to be.

And Zack Snyder is a fucking hack who directed exactly two decent films (Dawn of the Dead and 300), so fuck his vision of Superman, fuck his hack editing job, fuck his "comic panels" cinematography, fuck his inability to direct an action scene worth a shit, and fuck his general lack of giving a shit about Superman.

I'd rather watch The Quest for Peace again than watch MoS or BvS.

>>86815116
>MoS and BvS are great film
>lifelong Superman fan
Choose one

>>86815116
Hello fellow Superman fan, you forgot to add Suicide Squad to your list of great films that always will be great.
Snyder is a true visionary and BvS is true kino, a scene with a coffee cup represents Batman's rage been contained by Supe's goodness, this is truly the greatest kino of our lifetimes, 100 years from now people will still talk about how brilliant every single frame is and nobody will ever remember the name of the other company that also happens to make "super kek heroes movies".

>>86820808
Do you also love that classic scene in Spider-Man 3 when Peter starts dancing? I thought it was an integral part of the storyline. For years i was a Venom fan and i was very happy to watch him for about 5 minutes, truly a great movie that pleases fans and simpleton audiences alike, 5/5. Kino.

I caught the end of MoS on tv tonight, and while it had some nice sort of sentiments the majority of it was a visual clusterfuck. I do like the way they portrayed the alien attitudes of superman and the Kryptonians but holy shit the human world was a laugh.

They are the best movies to ever be created. You can notice that Snyder really enjoys what he does. He adds tiny details that only a truth film lover can enjoy. There is real emotion involved in MOS and BvS. They have real consequences to their actions in the film. Making every decision they make a critical one. I also like the fact they don't have to show ever scene and that the audience can connect the dots, that way he can focus on more important scenes. I just don't understand how people can bash the film. Don't look at it as a DC vs Marvel, look at as a movie/film/flick or whatever.

>>86815116
People don't dislike this Superman because he's different, they don't like him because he is a boring, unsympathetic douche throughout most of BvS. What makes Superman interesting isn't this grade-school "how would the world react?" shit. What makes Superman interesting is how he reacts to the situations you place him in. He is neigh indestructible, and his morals are fair and just. So placing him in a morally ambiguous situation and seeing him struggle to do the right thing is interesting. Batman V Superman tried to do that, but failed because it was clear that Superman didn't want to save anybody. He was whiny, angry, even self-absorbed at times. So all we are left with is an angst-ridden Superman taking the easiest way out of every situation because his dad was a shithead. This film sucks, Superman's character sucks, and your argument sucks. Just because change CAN be good doesn't mean every change IS good. And in this case, they fucked up Superman.

>>86823650

>Martha : Batman realizes what he is doing is wrong because memories of his mom bring him back to his moral center. Seems silly because of delivery and almost pure coincidence of the moment. Also, how fucking convenient is it that this never happened sooner? They should have just used the "I never wanted to kill you, just teach you a lesson" thing from the Dark Knight Returns.

> Kent : You can't save everyone, but save who you can. (Also don't tell people who you are or whatever) Except this doesn't work because Superman could have totally saved him. Kent's death in Superman 2 worked better

>Joker : Only seen the film once, but is this just to show how crazy he is? Like, "ha I'm the Joker, I'm so crazy I randomly shot this guy, maybe because I actually DO love Harley even though I thought I didn't?"

Explain why Batman stopped killing people at the end.

>>86824967
>it was clear that Superman didn't want to save anybody

Reddit tier criticism desu

>>86820597
>there'es nothing creative or challenging in BvS.

>>86825209
Superman Saved Him.

Batman is the best Humanity has to offer and superman inspired him to get better

Rotten tomato says otherwise

>>86825440
Superman solved both MoS and BvS by murdering the bad guy.
If anything Batman should be even more motivated into killing bad guys.

>>86823826
>Especially BvS jumping through scenes with no flux whatsoever
Only in the Theatrical cut.
>>shit plot
Why?
>>terrible characters
So you hate Batman & Superman so this film was never ever gonna be for you, fuck the fuck off.
>>and motivations all over the place
Motivations make perfect sense.
>>shit acting
Not 1 single performance was worse then decent.
>>boring action, especially MoS
No it was fucking incredible & most epic earth shaking clash we have ever seen in live action comic book films.
>>hamfisted imagery shoved everywhere
Litterally 2 tiny scenes in Mos does not qualify as everywhere.

>>86825652
He only murdered the one guy though.

>>86825652
Killing a person in self defense or defense of others when said person can kill every living being on the face of the earth by hand is not the same thing as casually running goons over with the batmobile.

>>86815116
The problem isn't that it's different. The problem is that it's SHIT.

>>86824441
>owever, there is a middle ground that does not involve Superman making out with Lois Lane as human ash reigns down around them
They were litterally SHAKING as they embraced, how the fuck can you not wrap you mind around the fact that they were both desperate & shaken by almost dying atom by atom in a black hole seconds before??? What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>86825326

If Superman wanted to save people, why did he ram Zod straight into the center of Smallville, and why did he not seem to give a single shit about all the chaos and destruction caused by Zod during the Metropolis fight?

>>86824693

>I just don't understand how people can bash the film

Some people - most people, even - like cohesive, coherent narratives.

Some people don't.

You're obviously in the latter group.

>>86824513
>while allowing massive property damage and loss of life is NOT the Superman we know
But that did not happen. The black zero destroyed Metropolis while Clark was on the other side of the planet, he can't be in 2 places at once and his actual 1 on 1 battle with Zod only resulted in 1 building falling (which Clark did zero structural damage to) and the front side of a parking garage collapsing.
>is and what kind of character Snyder wants Superman to be.
He wants him to a character that people don't have to walk around on jagged eggshells around, he wants him to have weight & god damn consequences.

>inability to direct an action scene worth a shit
Superman vs Zod in Mos is flawless.

>>86824548
Fuck you, not op but I have liked Superman since I was a kid watching TAS in the 90s and Mos is also my 2nd favorite movie currently.
Burn the fuck in hell.

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>>86815116
3 years and 3 months and 24 days of Apologist Threads, erry day til someone likes it.

Has any movie ever inspired such autism?
Even Abatap eventually moved on.

>>86824967
>but failed because it was clear that Superman didn't want to save anybody
You are a god damn liar.

>LET THEM DROWN CLARK
>YOU DON'T OWN THESE PEOPLE CLARK, FUCK EM
I'm not surprised why Kal-El such an souless edgelord. Zack just made Kents total douchebags and that's ruined both movies.

>>86825860

>But that did not happen.

Smallville ring any bells, bitch?

>He wants him to a character that people don't have to walk around on jagged eggshells around

The fuck does this even mean?

>Superman vs Zod in Mos is flawless.

Nothing is flawless. Nothing is perfect. Pull your head out of your ass.

>>86825689
>So you hate Batman & Superman
Superman and Batman weren't in these movies. They were Space Jesus and Carmageddon Man.

>>86825808
>why did he ram Zod straight into the center of Smallville
Because HE WAS NOT LOOKING WHERE HE WAS GOING HE WAS LOOKING DOWN AT ZOD'S FACE THE ENTIRE FLIGHT, IT WAS A FUCKING ACCIDENT!
>and why did he not seem to give a single shit about all the chaos and destruction caused by Zod during the Metropolis fight?
If he did not give a shit then why did he not punch/push or throw Zod into a single building in Metropolis? If he did not give a shit why did he look up in horror when he realized he made a mistake letting the oil tanker go?
If he did not give a shit why did he let loose with the full power punches in the sky and took Zod to the very edge of downtown before Zod swerved back in?
Just because he was not capable of doing anything about the destruction aside from restraining himself does not mean he does not care that the destruction is happening, it fucking means that stopping the threat is billion times more important.
What if he had actually stopped the oil truck and Zod used that distraction to start bliz attacking civilians on the street?
What if he tried to save people one by one and Zod ripped them out of his arms because Superman would have had to slow down while doing as to avoid his velocity harming them?
He did the right fucking thing.

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>>86826049
This.
Snyder is completely doing OC, and WB is reskinning them as the Trinity.

>>86825925
I don't give a shit about people liking it or not, I care about stopping them from ruining every thread we make trying to share are love with other people who like it.

>>86826058
>Because HE WAS NOT LOOKING WHERE HE WAS GOING HE WAS LOOKING DOWN AT ZOD'S FACE THE ENTIRE FLIGHT, IT WAS A FUCKING ACCIDENT!
He flies Anon. Why would he bring him back down to (fragile) Earth to begin with? In the air he has a massive advantage against the Kryptonians who haven't learned how to fly yet.

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>>86826058

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>>86815116
>its yet another Snyderfag denial thread
This is hilariously pathetic

I might as well start dropping some autism screencaps

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>>86826079
>I don't give a shit about people liking it or not,

The very OP of this thread is a confrontation against "not muh". The OP is clearly picking an argument.

>>86825966
>Smallville ring any bells, bitch?
Yes he tried to drag Faora out of town and non tackled him, and then later he punched Non into the train yard and out of main street so yes he absolutely tried to minimize damage.
Regardless the Military did the overwhelming majority of the damage.
>>86825966
>The fuck does this even mean?
It means he should be allowed to make mistakes and fuck up periodically and he should sometimes make hard choices for the greater good. There is NOTHING wrong with killing a genocidal maniac to save millions of lives.
>>86825966
>Nothing is flawless
Direction wise it was flawless the cgi was iffy at just a few points.

>>86826107
>let all people inside buiding die and all these property blown up because I was too lazy to do something
THAT'S MY SUPERMAN! THX ZACK!

>>86826105
He was in a blind rage.
And his punches were not doing jack shit to Zod's face.
>>86826107
Did you not read my fucking post?
He did not realize the threat it posed hence him turning back up in horror when it exploded.
And he was proved right as the insant his back was turned Zod sneak attacked him.

>>86815116
>attempting man of steel almost 4 years later

I am a loss for words

>>86826204
Focusing on Zod and making sure he doesn't start killing humans one by one is not laziness.

>>86825925
Abatap died.
Hint

>>86826245
Well, he has killed dozens of people by not catching this truck. Also just staring at Zod doesn't stop him at all, I guess. He wasted all these time to just staring at him.

>>86826286
He was watching him so he could tackle him if he tries to attack humans.
You have no idea how many died in the parking garage, could be far less then dozens.

>>86815116
Their interpretation of Superman had less than 100 lines. His character aside from a few scenes of incredibly dryly delivered exposition was opaque to the audience. They edited out the establishing shots to free up time for an extra 30 seconds of flashing-lights destruction porn. The pacing of the movie was disorienting and choppy. It was a poorly written, poorly directed, poorly edited movie with ambitious themes that failed to translate to film in any meaningful way. Get the fuck over it.

>>86824967
The movie was just bad. That Superman was totally blank and uninteresting is secondary to the crippling structural flaws of the movie.

>>86826357
Superman let people (doesn't matter one or more) die and millions-cost property blow up, because he was thinking of stopping Zod from POTENTIAL attack on other people. Dem, what a superhero!

>>86815116


All Supermen in the cartoons and movies are pretty different from one another.

Animated series Supes was different from JL supes. Dean Cain very different from George Reeves, Chris Reeve supes is different from Cavill.
Thing is, while all very different they still had the fundamentals of Superman,the persona was there.
Cavill was a bit more melancholic but in MoS we see him have hints of that natural heroism.

MoS was a very big change for Supes but personally I felt like it worked as a really great stepping stone for him, they wanted to be dark and gritty, a less optimistic superman who becomes the hero we know and love and it looked like it was headed there.
of course I'd have preferred they'd madee the melancholic supes a pit stop and not the whole journey to becoming Superman. But whatever it was good.

And then BvS comes along.
I get it, it wanted to deconstruct heroes and try to put all these "bigger" ideas behind it, but it failed to make any of it work.

I don't like the idea of dark and gritty Superman but if done right it could work.

Batman is versatile enough that hes been campy, dark, and then grounded, so had it been done right I mightve enjoyed a murderous Batman.

BvS was very badly written, characters were poorly portrayed, there are so many moments that leave people wondering wtf just happened. Not out of some "plebian" misunderstanding but because it just didn't make any sense.

he is a faggot that only cares about Lois

>flies to Africa to save her in an instant
>scares a guy to death by flying him into the sky
>bitches at a vigilante for saving womens because he wasn't nice to the kidnapper

he is a faggot and an hypocrite

>>86818413
Why would you put Golden age character in a movie that's trying to rip off TDKR? That makes zero sense and it's completely tone deaf.

>>86825844
I say that because nobody has ever given a good reason. It is just snyder this and that. Bias info that they say just to make people angry. I would understand if people just didn't like this particular Supes because he is new and they don't want to see his back story again because he has be around for 75+ years.