Falling on deaf ears.

>>86111475
>Enjoy good things while you can.
So, stay away from shit like BvS?

>>86111475
>. It was also when I realized that /co/ has non- meme non-4chan autism.
Hold it anon, unless you a doctor how's run actual tests, your use of the word "autism" will always be 4chan meme autism. Why is it so hard for you to just say something like "/co/ is too stupid to understand the movie", why do you have to resort to buzzwords? As for the rest of your argument, it's pretty sound and I respect you for that.

>>86111475
Man Of Steel was a terrible adaptation of Superman.

But it would have been a great Martian Manhunter story.

But Batman V Superman had absolutely abysmal editing, and EisenLuthor would be a terrible villain no matter what movie you put him in. He's post-Unbreakable Shamwow tier hammy and awkward.

It was garbage, Snyder. Just go to bed.

It's been 6 months nigga, fucking get over it.

>>86111620
Because people NEED dramatic examples to shale the mout of apathy. t. Bruce Wayne

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>>86111642
wew I fucked that up

>>86111645
Are you ok?

>>86111475
>Enjoy good things while you can.
I do
but I didn't enjoy this movie

you can try as hard as you can to force your opinions on people but when it comes down to it people didnt like this movie for the things you stated

yes batman kills tons of people
yes its grimdark
and yes superman is depressed as fuck in the movie
but saying stupid shit like BUT ITS SUPPOSE TO BE LIKE THAT doesnt mean people have to like it

>>86111521
reading is hard

>>86111954
Writing is hard for OP, more like

>>86112003
phoneposter pls

Who calls their mom by her first name?

>>86111475
The movie sucked dick because they had to do a post credit DVD edit in order for any of it to make sense.

They literally saw a problem and decided

BUY THE BLU RAY

>>86112027

Wait, doesn't the special edition have that weird ass scene with Lex praying to an alien in the ship? How does that make any sense?

>>86112020
>Batman says "I bet your parents taught you etc..."
Supes would not then try to play for sympathy with something that Bruce has already mocked.

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>>86112027
It made perfect sense in the theater, idiot.

>>86112038
This scene was just for plebs who couldn't into Lex's devil allusions.

>>86111475
>>muh killer bats
>Burton says hello. And early comics, but you guys just say not muh for that one too.

I have less problem with a killer Batman, but all you're doing is comparing BvS to other things that handled a killer Batman more consistently and didn't need people to come up with headcanon where they claim Batman became a killer after Jason died yet didn't go kill the Joker.

>>86112063
> it made perfect sense in the theatre


Which justifies why they had to FIX IT in the DVD.

>>86112080
>Which justifies why they had to FIX IT in the DVD.

No. I saw it in theaters. It made sense.
Clearly they thought so too as the Blu Ray has a disc for each version of the film.

>>86111629
>Man of Steel was a terrible adaptation of Superman
>MUH ALL-STAR

>>86112103
>It made sense but I can't explain why without making shit up

Uh huh

>>86112104
>MUH ALL-STAR
>Ignoring how he said Eisenberg was a terrible Luthor
>ignoring the part where he said it had a terrible ending
>B-BUT HE WAS GOING M-MUH ALL-STAR

Pack it up, OP.

>>86111475

OP, what's with the weird stream of consciousness-style writing going on?

>>86112103
>It wasn't broken which is why they felt a need to fix it

Makes perfect sense. All cape films comes with 2 versions in the dvd release

>>86112130
That wasn't me though.

You seem eager to end this thread.

>>86112116
Not trying to be hostile, but what do you mean? It's not like you explained your claim either.
I only said that I followed it in the theater just fine.

>>86112144
high on believing.

Anon, at the end of the day, even when people GOT the story, they just didn't like it. I don't think all the poetry and allusions to Excalibur can fix that. People didn't enjoy the movie, they thought it was bad. Or, enough of them did that this has become the general consensus.

I have some experience with crowd-pleasers vs difficult works, so I know a little bit about what Snyder's going through. But at the end of the day people are going to like what they like and hate what they hate, and there's not much we can do about that.

>>86112150
>That wasn't me though.

Sure thing phoneposter

>>86112144
I thought people would listen more if I wrote it a little less 4chan-standard.

>>86112149
>The Lord of The rings extended cuts
>the Watchmen extended versions
etc

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>>86112164
why am I replying

>>86111475
BvS was a bad film before it was a bad comic book films.

>>86112130
I agree with that other stuff, though.

I just think MoS was a pretty serviceable adaptation of the MoS comic and that people who think ASS is the definitive Superman are annoying as shit.

Nigger, get over it already. There's nothing wrong if you enjoyed BvS, but stop acting like one of those religious zealots when it comes to this movie. You're not going to convert anyone to the religion of BvS, a lot of people just didn't enjoy it.

Why does that affect you so much? Are you unable to enjoy shit unless everyone else agrees with you? I liked X-Men Apocalypse and Iron Man 3, but I'm not throwing autistic fits when someone shits on them and I'm certainly not writing essays zealously defending them 6 months after their release. This is pure autism at this point.

>>86112787
>Are you unable to enjoy shit unless everyone else agrees with you?

>>86111475
>I'm doing this for you guys- we have a short time on this planet. Enjoy good things while you can.

It's as simple as the fact that we have a film better than TDK, and people refuse to see it.

I don't have any delusions about shit movies being shit.
Green Lantern was pretty shit.
IM2 was pretty shit.

The fact is, this movie almost a masterpiece.

>>86112828
Fuck off back to DC Cinematic.

>>86112373
>I just think MoS was a pretty serviceable adaptation of the MoS comic

Confirmed for not reading comics

>>86112851
I've never been to reddit for more than five minutes in my life.

This boogeyman shit you've been doing lately is old hat.
Why is /co/ always so behind the curve on the hip memes?

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>>86112828
For your sake, I hope you're trolling.

Man of Steel was great
BvS was fucking spectacular. Loved that movie

>>86112856
not that guy but
>what is Superman: Earth One

>inb4 hurr a shit comic

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>>86112877
no u

>>86112856
well it adpted MoS about as much as the Civil War movie adapted Civil War

>>86112894
So almost not at all?

>>86112897
it got the major strokes/character arc down, trimmed the fat, and made the big moment (killing zod/cap and iron man's final fight) much better than in the original source material.

>>86111475
Anon, if you think BvM is a good movie, do me this favor. Explain Meme!Lex's motivation. Do you understand what he was trying? I don't. But apparently since I'm autistic and incapable of grasping complex character motives like you are maybe you could explain it to me.
>I'm going to stop Superman who I don't like by unleashing an unstoppable rage monster, and then once he's dead I'm going to.... well it's gonna be pretty awesome!
Give me the non-autists understanding of what Lex was trying to accomplish.

>>86112941
I'll explain, but only if you confirm that you aren't a pissposter.

>>86112958
What the hell is a pissposter? Is that like a shitposter but piss instead?
I'm not meme'ing, I want to hear your over-elabate justification of such a convoluted and seemingly senseless plan.

Like I can understand him setting him up to fight batman to prove their justice hypocritical, but don't see at all what he has to gain by creating a monster he cannot stop from the body of a warlord that almost destroyed the planet.

>>86112941
>>86112969
Lex was just trying to prove that superman can't be all good and all powerful. Which is literally the main point of the movie. Its what everyone is grappling with, Batman, the public, Lex, and even Superman. Batman keeps saying "if there is even a 1% chance we gotta kill him!" also not believing he can be all good, that that much power must eventually corrupt him. Lex is convinced of as much and wants to prove it.


He does this be both constantly discrediting Superman (framing him in the middle east, the explosion at the senate) in an attempt to get Batman and the public to turn on him. He then also capture his mom to force him to fight Batman as somewhat of a diversion so he could make Doomsday.

Lex's thinking is that either Superman kills Batman, proving he isn't all good, or Batman kills Superman, proving he isn't all powerful. But Lex doesn't really give a shit because regardless of the outcome he will create his own Superman (Doomsday) that will itself either kill Superman (again proving Superman isn't all powerful) or will just rampage around, more powerful than Superman and not good at all, while also probably forcing the government to fund Lexcorp's kryptonite weapons.


Lex was thinking that regardless of what happened he was gunna win. He would either prove Superman is not all powerful, or that Superman is not all good. And he succeeded because Superman died (but know as the audience that Superman will indeed come back and prove Lex wrong).

>>86112941


You see anon: Your answer is your question and your question.

He wants the Bat to fight the Supes because he is you, he wants to understand the meaning of such a fight, he needs it to happen to sit back and deconstruct it months later.

LEX IS AUTISM THE DEVIL


End Snyder.exe

Or its a piece of shit with inexplicable character motivations all over the place. You pick your poison.

>>86111475
>>That is why people don't like BvS
Two words.

Bad Alfred.

It's unforgivable.

>>86111475
Dank pasta m8

>>86113020
>>86112969
>>86112941

Also to add to my point, its a step of reconstructing the Superman myth. If you think about MoS as starting at the most deconstructed level of Superman (ie a superman type person existing in the real world) with him just wondering around doing shit with his powers, and he gets progressively more heroic and absolute in his ideals and goodness as MoS and BvS go on. But the world, a parallel to our world in which we don't believe anyone can actually be all good and all powerful, refuses to accept it until Superman sacrifices himself to prove it (at least the all good part), helping to reconstruct the idea of the superhero.


Kinda cool desu senpais.

>>86111475
Yo m8, you gotta realize hate is always louder than love. Like 9/10 people that hate something will post about it, but only like 1/10 of people that like something will post about it, especially if they already have before. Its easier to repeat and meme hate for something, but it becomes kind of pointless to try and argue with the haters and tell them you love it. Most people that like it just let the haters hate.

>>86112897
That's about what I expect from these movies now.

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The best part about Lex (and the film) is the Kirby stuff.


The whole film is packed to the brim with Darksied and Apokolips references, both visual and spoken.

When we watch Lex and Senator Finch talk, Lex goes on about this painting he has (pic related). Notice the top of the painting. A black hole. The hole in things.
He talks about how "Devil's don't come from hell beneath us, they come from the sky"
and at the end of the film when Bats visits Lex in prison, Lex says something close to (I forgot the EXACT wording)
"It's too late, the bell's been rung. Out there in the dark, among the stars, they're heard it- and they're coming.

Lex has been in contact with Apokalips through the crashed ship.


>>86113042
This stuff as well is why I love the film.

>>86113042
>reconstructing
>deconstructing
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're from around these parts, so a lil tip, usin those two words doesn't booster your credibility or argument here
They're pretty vapid words which don't have any real meaning
Even your explanation of the term as "a type person existing in the real world" is pretty laudable

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>>86113066
Devils*
Fuck I proof read that littel 3 times.

>>86113070
but im using the terms 100% correctly and not vapidly at all. I even directly refer to the character they are deconstructing.

>>86113042
>and he gets progressively more heroic and absolute in his ideals and goodness
Ahahahah you're really blowing out your ass aren't you? This is the strongest criticism against Synder superman.
He's not heroic or good nor does he live up to any ideals, and he never comes any closer in either movie.

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>>86113070
>so destroyed he has to swing his big oldfag cred dick around

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>>86113083
>He's not heroic or good nor does he live up to any ideals, and he never comes any closer in either movie.
>I didn't watch either movie

You people are utterly insane.
I mean it.
Not just trying to insult you as we do here- there is actually something very very wrong with you.

>>86113083
but he keep saving us all despite how we refuse to accept how heroic he is (just like you are doing). Like you are literally the "public" that is portrayed in BvS. You just refuse to believe he is a hero despite all of his heroic actions, despite him constantly saving people for no reason other than to do it. What does he have to do to prove to you he just wants to save us? Die for us?

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>>86113096
this post gave me a fuck yeah moment

>>86113076
No you aren't.
You're using tv tropes buzz words. I don't even think you understand what they mean beyond "They're so deep and gritty and realistic!" or a trope being used differently than it usually is.

Saying anything is deconstructed is paradoxical, because all things are inherently deconstructive and paradoxical in itself. If you study categorical imperatives of absolute truth and particulars vs universals it makes sense, but deconstuction is a term co-opt by literary faggots to try to promote something as 2deep5u obscured from it's original context.

>>86113085
Saying that a persons from another website isn't oldfag cred. If you go lmao like dis movie if you ain't gay XD and speak in niggerspeak lol people are going to pelt you a little.

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>>86113104
>replying to the wrong post out of blind rage at the idea of someone having better taste than you

>>86113095
Killing ZOD wasn't heroic.
Destroying that guys truck wasn't good or just.
Fucking up American Military satellites that we need to defend ourselves just because of some made up reason isn't ideal at all.

Just because he's given a shitty montage of him saving people from a flood and doing generic hero antics doesn't boister his heroism or growth in the movie.

I think you're really stretching here anon.

>>86113118
see
>>86113042

It's painfully obvious that you didn't read his post.

>>86113101
>>86113112
>this post gave me a fuck yeah moment
See what I mean here^?
>>86113104
These read like someone fresh out of facebook or TvTurds and you're pretty clearly not native if you cannot see that.

>>86113118
Zod forced him to kill him. Zod literally wasnt going to stop until he killed him. Zod said as much. And that happened in Byrne's MoS, and unlike in that mini-series, Superman actually learned from it.


The truck was definitely insured, on top of it being a law in America that you HAVE to get insurance for your car to drive it, all commercial trucks are insured for everything. And the guy was being a jerk, standing up to jerks is pretty heroic man. Like in the donner movies when he beats up the jerk in the bar, or action comics #1 where he ruins the mobster's car.


The drone was spying on him. Drones are already in a morally grey area, but they are unmanned and just plastic and metal and shit. We have tons of them and can make tons more like nothing. Spying was the really unethical thing desu, especially since they had no reason to.

>>86113128
>being positive and happy means reddit

Isn't summer over?

>>86113121
>Y-y-you must not have read!
This wanking argument practically needs a fallacy of it's own.

>and he gets progressively more heroic and absolute in his ideals and goodness as MoS and BvS go on
To which I stated, he clearly didn't. Just going into glorious battles to stop hulk monsters doesn't denote a clear character arc. But seriously
>Helping to reconstruct the idea of the superhero.
Stop being so pretentious.

>>86113138
Is that a trope you're fond of using? "F'Yeah Moment'? No one says that.

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>>86113143
>Stop being so pretentious.

this is why you fail
thanks for playing

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>>86113156
>THIS asspained over a display of positivity

>>86113156
stop being so pretentious

>>86111475
>WAAAAH, STOP NOT LIKING WHAT I LIKE!

>>86113137
>the car is insured so it's ok
Top kek, gotta give it to Snyderfags, at least they're funny.

>>86113178
Explain why the logic is flawed.

>>86113020
Those motives are still incredibly dumb. He was trying to prove that Superman wasn't god? No shit. What kind of loser fedorafag would go through such lengths just to win a mediocre argument or prove a point that only you yourself ever cared about. Superman knows he's not god, and he already proved the "not all good" part when he killed Zod and not "all powerful" part when he failed to save thousands of people in the destruction the city felt.

Autist Lex's plan was extremely anal-pained.
I'm not even sure whether it's dumber than Kevin Spacey's Superman Returns evil plot, but it's a pretty close contender.

I honestly think that synder was way too concerned with all the symbolism and deep4u stuff that he just forgot to make a good movie with a narrative that makes sense and believable, likeable characters in the process. It's okay to have depth, but you have to cover your bases first.

>>86113193
>Snyder wrote this movie
tip top lol

>>86113137
Everything you're saying just sounds like a superman fanboy's sympathetic justifications.

It's one thing if you want to be a hard pragmatist when it comes to killing Zod, but you don't get to claim that you're fostering this big idealistic hero at the same time. You either go for heroic neutral or- actually reading the rest of your post I don't even think it warrants a serious response.

>And the guy was being a jerk, standing up to jerks is pretty heroic man.
>Spying was the really unethical thing desu, especially since they had no reason to.
>A true hero hits back, let's'em have it! And they get to decide what's unethical even when people are just protecting themselves
Your idea of a heroic person sounds pretty shitty and child-like, desu.

Remember in the old Richard Donner supes Clark Kent is robbed at gunpoint and shows humility and heroism by not abusing his strength or making a scene? Subtle traits like that are completely absent in Synder-verse.

When will the meme that this film was competent die

If you have had literally any exposure to film outside of capeshit and modern Disney you would see that it is a total mess

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>>86113231
>Donner
>Subtle

'kek'

>>86113205
>tip top lol
At this point you're trolling man, give it up. You're not going to get my goose with that anymore.

>>86113180
>A guy is a big wet meanie >:C
>I know, I'll destroy his truck which he needs to work and live out of a petty display of power, showing my temperance, humility and self-control, that'll show him!
>Psst nothin personal kid
Really?

>>86111475
>There is no case, none AT ALL, for BvS being a bad film as taken on it's own merits.

That's completely false. The plot is a mess, and takes one hour of random things to get somewhere. We see a bad actress trying to nail a shitty written Lois Lane getting more screentime of the fucking Superman, Lex Luthor is awful and the plan doesn't make sense. There are scenes totally disjointed from the plot who exists only for continuity reasons, and that taken alone they don't mean anything. Characterizations are so bad if it wasn't for the names and the constumes I would have some problem at identify the characters. Killer bats (yeah even Burton's is shit), gloomy Superman and Expressionless Woman are signs of an horrid work in the screeplay department. Snyder can't direct for shit, it made this movie seem an high budget school work. I know people new to directing who would have done a much better work.
And you know? The worst part is that this movie is boring.

It is a failure, and /tv/ should accept it or talk about it in their board. Because here on /co/ we are sick of this shitty half assed excuse for a movie. Can we forget this disaster and go back reading comics? DC Rebirth is doing well.

/thread.

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>>86113235
>If you have had literally any exposure to film outside of capeshit and modern Disney you would see that it is a work of art

ftfy

>>86113245
>The worst part is that this movie is boring.

Why does every naysayer without fail reveal themselves to be a pleb?

>/threading your own post

>>86113245
>Lex Luthor is awful and the plan doesn't make sense
We already explained it here
>>86113020
Maybe you're just mentally deficient and your autism cannot stop your black and white thinking to see the complexity of this artistic movie.

Can /tv/tards get their own /mlp/ so they could leave this board alone, please?

>>86113258
>Maybe you're just mentally deficient and your autism cannot stop your black and white thinking to see the complexity of this artistic movie.
And here's your response. >>86113193
Two can play this game. And thanks for calling one person mentally deficent because he finds fault in your trophy movie.

Now you can go to your home >>>/tv/

>>86113306
Your linked post doesn't refute his.
You're an idiot.

>>86113316
You know you have to be at least 18 to browse 4chan?

If it is any meaning for you it's time to read a book or watch a decent movie in your life. Or, you know, you can read a comic.

>>86112828
>this movie is a masterpiece
here's your (You)

>>86113042
>progressively more heroic
>gives zero shits about people in metropolis and instead proceeds to beatdown zod
i found a hole in your theory fampei
nani
nani nai

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>>86113338
>You know you have to be at least 18 to browse 4chan?
Then why are you here?

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The more often I see BvS defended in these verbose ways, the more I get the feeling that film as a medium is dying.

Fucking hell, I need to watch something by Tarkovsky, Kurosawa or Lubitch or something to remember that we used to have such promise.

OP, please stop being a cancer to humanity and stop propping up capeshit.

>>86113413
>Kurosawa
the capeshit of his day
fuck off

>>86111475
>not an argument
not an argument

>>86113435
>>not an argument
>not an argument
not an argument

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>>86113425
>Hurr Durr I watched 7 samurai and Yojimbo
He made dramas, you fucking pleb.

>>86113459
>tfw the doctor says it's just a harmless ulcer

>>86113459
>Hurr Durr I watched 7 samurai and Yojimbo
The Hidden Fortress as well

Face it he was the Nolan of his time.

>>86113357
the way the scene was written was absolutely retarded.

superman didn't even stop to consider that he was destroying the city while people where there. the active participation was really jarring, especially since the movie set him up to care about people. they got shots of people reacting while superman is destroying everything.

"oh yeah, I'll just let this shit happen"

>>86113458
>>>not an argument
>>not an argument
>not an argument
not an argument

>>86113413
>I have to watch these meme directors

Jesus Christ, do people still pretend that El Topo is a masterpiece? Is everyone just a pedophile these days?

>>86113459
>he is japanese therefore I have to like him

That's the only reason, we all know how your kind operates. Especially on 4chan.

>>86113357
>almost
So what if I missed that?

The fact that you think this shit is something to even CONSIDER to be a masterpiece speaks of the amount of stupidity you have.

I think you like sucide squad too, like the pretentious hipster faggot that you are.

>>86113508
>>>>not an argument
>>>not an argument
>>not an argument
>not an argument
not an argument

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>>86113525
>pretentious hipster faggot
You keep shooting yourself in the foot with these extremely dated buzzwords.

>>86113536
So what if it's dated?

You're still a pretentious hipster faggot.

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>>86113512
Kurosawa was a great fucking filmmaker. If you compare his stuff to other directors of the time, you'd be surprised at how well his works flow and are edited.
Just like Hitchcock, from a purely technical and narrative stand point he was a pioneer.
So what if they made genre films too?

You can't honestly tell me that you'd put Snyder on the same level as them.
If you do, you really need to eat a bullet.

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>>86113561
>You can't honestly tell me that you'd put Snyder on the same level as them.
Snyder at his best is as good as Kurosawa operating at 90% potential.
Kurosawa's best is a little better.

>>86113529
>>>>>not an argument
>>>>not an argument
>>>not an argument
>>not an argument
>not an argument
not an argument

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>>86113560
“Hipster” is a term co-opted for use as a meaningless pejorative in order to vaguely call someone else’s authenticity into question and, by extension, claim authenticity for yourself.

It serves no conversational function and imparts no information, save for indicating the opinions and preferences of the speaker.

Meanwhile, a market myth has sprung up around the term, as well as a cultural bogeyman consisting of elusive white 20-somethings who wear certain clothes (but no one will agree on what), listen to certain music (no one can agree on this either), and act a certain way (you’ve probably sensed the pattern on your own). One may be quick to coin such interests and garb as "black-rimmed glasses, flannel, and indie music," however said mainstream-avoiding "hipsters" will logically turn down abiding to such a popular consensus, voiding the interpretation null.

You can’t define what “that kind of behavior or fashion or lifestyle” actually is, nor will you ever be able to. That’s because you don’t use “hipster” to describe an actual group of people, but to describe a fictional stereotype that is an outlet for literally anything that annoys you.

The twist, of course, is that if it weren’t for your own insecurities, nothing that a “hipster” could do or wear would ever affect you emotionally. But you are insecure about your own authenticity - “Do I wear what I wear because I want to? Do I listen to my music because I truly like it? I’m certainly not like those filthy hipsters!” - so you project those feelings.

Suffice it to say, no one self-identifies as a hipster; the term is always applied to an Other, to separate the authentic Us from the inauthentic, “ironic” Them.

tl;dr: if you believe hipsters exist, you are a plebeian.

>>86111475
Dude.

It was a shit movie.

Deal with it.

>>86113573
>>>>>>not an argument
>>>>>not an argument
>>>>not an argument
>>>not an argument
>>not an argument
>not an argument
not an argument

>>86113571
Apart from the fact that is plainly apparent that Snyder can't direct actors or dialogue.
*ding ding ding ding*

Any competent director would have thrown a chair at Eisenberg. But Snyder probably encouraged him spazzing around.

>>86113578
still a fucking pretentious hipster faggot
btw I ctrl+f your bullshit, thanks for researching this shit in reddit to prove my point.

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>>86113584
(not true, by the way)

>>86113595
>*ding ding ding ding*
literally did not get it
it was a cross between the bell comment and the noise a motherbox makes. (ping)

back 2 /tv/

>>86113595
Really don't understand everyone's problem with EisenLuthor. He was great.

>>86113594
>>>>>>>not an argument
>>>>>>not an argument
>>>>>not an argument
>>>>not an argument
>>>not an argument
>>not an argument
>not an argument
not an argument

>>86113620
just not muh

>>86111475
Only 2 or 3 people here hate this movie in total. The vast majority of people here like it, due to it being great. Personally I think it's a 10/10 movie.

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>>86113621
you win i'm bored

>>86111620
How about inability to empathize, unable to understand facial expressions, and obsessing over things? That seems pretty autistic to me.

>>86113616
I'm amused by the fact that you think that that makes it better.
Typical fat nerd masturbation, so far removed from the real world, that he doesn't even realize how retarded it is, even with context.
A bad performance is a bad performance is a bad performance.
And it doesn't help that Snyder employed a fade and let the ding dinging continue into the next scene.
It's almost genius at how unintentionally funny it is.
Tommy Wiseau was probably in the audience taking notes.

>>86113670
>A bad performance is a bad performance is a bad performance.
Gotta stop you right there, champ.
It wasn't a bad performance.

>>86112828
>this movie almost a masterpiece.
Yeah this has to be bait. Everyone knows it IS a masterpiece. Where does it fall short?

>>86112069

Batman became a killer after Metropolis, not Jason's death.

>>86113620
>>86113635
Keep wondering that.

A pale imitation of Jeremy Irons was great in Dungeons & Dragons or Eddie Redmayine in Jupiter Ascending.
If I want ham in my terrible epic, I'll have quality ham. Eisenberg has 0 charisma to pull it off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OL4w__Vqdjg

>>86113704
>Eddie Redmayine in Jupiter Ascending.
>good in any way on any level

0/10

>>86113711
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ckBIXZ044
I'd like to see Eisenberg consume half as much scenery in double the time.
Stay basic, my friend. Stay pleb.

>>86112941
http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/lex-luthor-explained/

>but if you need to explain something that means it's bad!
No, it means you're retarded.

>>86113769
dude yelling
no U stay pleb

>>86113193

Lex wasn't trying to prove that Superman wasn't really the literal god or even a godling being. Lex was just trying to show people Superman's true colors.

The whole deal about Lex is that he grew under a terrible man that the media regarded as a good because said man faked his image for good publicity. You know, like if his dad was Steve Jobs or something, but everybody knows that Jobs is an asshole so he's not a good example.

So Lex really believes that people aren't genuinely nice, they only pretend to fool others and look nice, and that power is a tool mostly used to oppress others, again because his father was a mean sob.

So here comes Superman with all that power and there he goes playing the hero with everyone eating it up. That ruins Lex mood. So he sets out to prove that there aren't nice people. That Superman isn't nice. And the same way Lex took his father's power, by taking Lexcorp and making better, he wants to overpower Superman and show that he's better at that game.

>>86113812
It's called acting, my boy.

A-C-T-I-N-G

I'm not surprised you've got trouble identifying it.

>>86113845
last (You) kiddo

>>86113571
A director who has an irrepressible need to make pretty pictures, even against the interest of the whole movie is as good as a director who made pretty pictures, shot great scenes, knew how to direct actors and how to tell a story?
You're a troll, delusional or just inane when it comes to cinema.

>>86113874
>even against the interest of the whole movie
Prove it.

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>>86113874
I wonder what would happen if you forced Snyder to do a movie under the Dogma rules like von Trier or Vinterberg used to.

He'd probably cut his wrists.

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>>86113917
>Dogma

>>86113770
>y-you're just retarded!
>>86113839
No you dolts, the reason Lex isn't bad isn't merely because his plan makes no sense and is just him having a petty little powertrip to prove absolutely nothing save validate his daddy issues. It's that it's the worst incarnation of Lex yet.

Lex Luthor, generally speaking as a character hates superheros. The most consistent runs and depictions show him believing Superheros are hypocrites and all just selfish superpowered assholes who will never stick up to the underdog or save humanity. He believes that by becoming the ultimate evil he'll cause a real hero, real heroism within humanity to rise with everyone working together and that will fill the void that superheros pretend to fill. Most of his plans and antagonism of superheros are based around this sort of plot to paint heroes for what they really are and get a real hero, one based in humanity to emerge.

Now with that you might think Facebook Lex did rather well, but it's even worse because this Lex doesn't care about mankind or their potential at all. He doesn't want to raise humanity up like some nietzschean figure or be a villain just for the sake of creating better heroes in man.

Everything BvS Lex does, is because he's a whiny little bitch.
He got abused by his daddy so what, he wants to expose Superman is fallible and ride his ego, just to have his little jerkoff moment. It's pathetic. From the writing, Jessie's acting and direction, to his cringey Freudian motivations. He's not a Megalomaniac, just a little boy mad at men because he can never be one.

How anyone can defend it, I honestly don't know.

>>86114080
What's odd is, if Lex was in Marvel his motivations would be justified and he'd be 100% right.
But DC lex is wrong because heroes are paragons. In Snyderverse, they are not.

>>86113770

The funniest thing about this link is that the rampant speculation embedded in just to try to fill the plotholes of the movie and excuse bad writing. You don't get to fix a movie by simply making up fanfiction, i.e. "And than he probably said this, yep and this quote which I made up", you go by what's onscreen and in the film, goddamn.

>>86114080
>not muh
give it up retard

>>86114144
>rampant speculation

Where? All this stuff was in the movie. I figured it out myself since I'm not retarded, but this guy knows how to explain things well.

>>86114080
>Lex Luthor, generally speaking as a character hates superheros
In the DCEU, Lex Luthor hates anyone stronger than him. He wants to genocide all metahumans, starting with Superman. They stayed true to his core aspects, his story is just a little different.

>>86111475
>It was also when I realized that /co/ has non- meme non-4chan autism.
Just noticed this now?

>>86111475
>Falling on deaf ears
and you are blind and deaf. The movie was a sloppy mess with a very poorly contrived 'plot' if you can even call it that.

>>86113020
That is the fucking dumbest thing I've ever heard. Somebody who was all powerful would have stopped Zod before any damage was done to Metropolis or Smallville. That conclusively proves he was not all powerful.

Someone who was all good would never resort to taking another life (and if he was all powerful would never have to).

>>86114306
I was in denial phamily.

>>86114340
Wow you're stupid.

all good- not all powerful and places get damaged

all powerful- not all good and lets places get damged

This version of Superman is a charmless miserable prick with no sense of humor.
Superman has no clear ideological difference to Batman. "Civil liberties are being trampled upon" is meaningless when Superman is willing to shove people through brick walls and intervene in foreign affairs whenever he feels like.
Lex Luthor knowing Clark and Bruce's secret identities is unexplained and unearned. His motivation for making Zod's corpse into a monster to kill Superman is flimsy at best. He wants to tear down Superman as a religious figure? Lex is a militant atheist because his dad hit him? You realize how fucking dumb that is?
Wonder Woman- man fuck everything about how this movie uses Wonder Woman.

>>86114340
Yeah. You know Lex was wrong right? So was the portion of the public who thought he was all good and all powerful. Lex wanted to refute those people.

>>86114427
>is willing to shove people through brick walls and intervene in foreign affairs whenever he feels like.
>terrorist warlords have civil liberties

>>86114427
>Lex Luthor knowing Clark and Bruce's secret identities is unexplained
If Lois can, Lex can. (inb4 then everyone could. Look at Tim finding out about Bruce. It's comics.)

>Lex's motivation
read the thread

>Wonder Woman
Not really much wrong with her. Other than not muh.

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>>86113914

>>86113258
The threas explained the motivation but he still remains a bad character

>>86111475
I just don't like it because the directing and editing was shitty

>>86114359
He was fucking trying to stop Zod you dumb cunt. If he was all powerful he would have immediately stopped him- that would be the only logical course. If he was all good he wouldn't have killed Zod.

>>86114457
That is Lex's motivation. His motivation is childishly stupid.

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>>86114462
here's a better picture for your future shitposting endeavors.

>>86114463
>but he still remains a bad character
for you

>>86114477
>a villain can't be childish

>a villain has to conform to what I think makes for a good antagonist

Childish maybe, not that stupid though seeing as he accomplished his goal of killing Superman.

>>86114427
This version of Superman is a charming, heroic, ideal of hope who empathizes with people. Go cry about it.

>>86114505
His motivation is stupid. Go back to your r/DC_Cinematic hugbox and convince yourself that JL won't be a steaming pile of shit.

>>86114513
>empathizes with people
When?

>>86114462
Yeah, saving people. Superman's character is ruined!

>>86114516
I think the DCEU fans are mad that JL is a quipfest. They would if they had any consistency at all. In stead of just bending over backwards to be contrarian

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>>86114516
>Go back to your r/DC_Cinematic hugbox

You keep saying this in every thread. I do not have an account on reddit and I rarely lurk because the layout is nauseating.

Get a new boogeyman.

>>86113770
If you have to write a 5000 word essay explaining a character- he is shit.

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>>86114531
>contrarian
not an argument against anyone
the masses have awful taste

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>>86114541
see
>>86113770
>No, it means you're retarded.

>>86114545
That's probably true. They've even convinced themselves that SS is one of the greatest action films ever.

>>86114531
TFA is essentially a functioning movie and not a boring, badly acted, badly written, pretentious Michael Bay movie with terrible CGI.

>>86114513
Examples, please. Of each of those.

Note: "Saving people" does not count as being heroic. HOW it is done is what matters.

>>86114565
Shit, fucked up the replies.

>>86114080

Dude, none of the shit you said is true.

Take Pre-52 Lex. He'd talk about the human potential and all that shitty, but he was just a guy with a huge ego.

Post-Infinite Crisis/Geoff Johns was huge on daddy issues as well. When he learned that Superman was Clark Kent he literally gave up the godly powers because to keep it meant not killing Superman and he ended up despising Superman even more after learning that he grew up being loved by the Kents and full of powers when he had a shitty daddy and had to grow up from nothing.

>>86114565
>hey've even convinced themselves that SS is one of the greatest action films ever.
kek
SS was nowhere near as good as MoS and BvS.
I don't know who you're talking to.

>boring
>pretentious
not an argument

>bad acting
An argument, but not one that can be levied at this movie.

>>86114565
TFA is horrible

>>86114596
>kek
>SS was nowhere near as good as MoS and BvS.
>I don't know who you're talking to.

The denizens of DC_Cinematic, like yourself.

>boring
>pretentious
>not an argument

Yes it is. Any film can excite me and make me want to see how it ends. BvS is a total slog to get through.

>bad acting
>An argument, but not one that can be levied at this movie.

MMMMMMM BOYS!, everything that Cavill says, everything that Gadot says and the MARTHA!!!! scene.

>>86114616
It is essentially a functioning movie. It's about a 6/10.

>>86114636
But Ben's emotional expression of the Martha revelation was phenomenal despite a 3rd of his face being covered.

>>86114636
>The denizens of DC_Cinematic, like yourself.
Repeating will never make it true.
I didn't know what that was until you started spamming every BvS thread.

>>86114427

How can someone get so much wrong about a movie?

>Superman is willing to shove people through brick walls and intervene in foreign affairs whenever he feels like

Superman stayed out from intervening in political affairs and only interfered in Africa because of Lois. That was why the bait was set-up.
Superman also shielded the African lord with his body when he flew themselves through the walls. Superman himself later reminded Lois that he didn't killed anyone there.

>Lex Luthor knowing Clark and Bruce's secret identities is unexplained and unearned.

Lex himself said that he figured Superman's secret identity by following Lois and setting her as bait to test his theory.
Lex learned Batman's secret identity because Batman was investigating Lex and got careless.

>He wants to tear down Superman as a religious figure? Lex is a militant atheist because his dad hit him? You realize how fucking dumb that is?

He isn't precisely a religious figure and Lex doesn't treat him as such. Lex treated him as a larger than life figure that had the adoration of the public. The mythology comparisons were just fucking comparisons to drive his point home.

How do you guys even watch movies? Honestly. It seems that you guys pay no attention to shit.

>>86114656
It's only functioning because it copied anh 100% in terms of narrative. And the new characters are beyond awful.

>>86114671
>implying it's me.

I just want you to go back. There you can circlejerk about BvS to your hearts content.

>>86114668
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>86114545
>the masses have awful taste
That's accurate.
TFA is not as good as A New Hope and not as ambitious as the Prequel Trilogy. (Yeah turning the space pulp movie into a political soap opera was a ballsy move that George wasn't at all equipped to do).
>>86114684
Poe Dameron is fine god damn it. And F1nn is a good idea. Kylo has places to go with his arc.
Rey sucks tho and I hate her dumb backstory flashback
>>86114535
>Navigating Reddit
I thoroughly agree with you on this. It's a god damn unusable mess. I can't imagine how anyone uses it.

>>86114712
Kylo is just as bad as Eisenlex or worse, and never had an arc to begin with

>>86114712
finn is meh
kylo could go places but we both know he won't
poe is street-smart flyer, aka poor man's solo

>>86114712
>>86114748
>>86114752

Honestly, i'm more annoyed with the whole new status quo rather than the characters. Really dumb shit like the Rebel Alliance being called the Resistance.

>>86114748
and Poe just makes you wonder if Wedge is dead, Finn changed sides way too quickly given his background, and Rey is totally a Mary Sue but it's not worth fighting over.

But really I could give everything I disliked in TFA a pass if it was just set much later without dooming Luke's efforts to failure. The only reason they shat on him personally, instead of just the New Jedi Order in general, was because they needed Han Solo to be still be alive to draw in maximum nostalgia bucks.

>>86111475

You like something/don't like something, that means that there must be something wrong with your brain. As the ultimate arbiter of taste and a truly objective critic, the only way that you could disagree with me is literally because you have a neuroatypical brain.

>>86111475
DING DING DING DING DING

>>86114822

Not to mention another fucking planet/galaxy destroyer weapon/world base.

>>86112884
Not that Anon, but Superman: Earth One is pretty shit, but its still better than MoS.

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>>86111475
>people don't like MoS and BvS because of "not muh!"
>It has nothing to do with the fact that they're long, boring, poorly written, poorly directed, poorly edited, jumbled, visually offensive messes

>>86114952
Apparently those points 'aren't arguments'.

Bruce literally lived long enough to see himself become a villain
Why is twoface always right?

>>86114981
There are people in this thread saying that Kurosawa isn't a good director.
They have no understanding of editing or film form.

>>86115005
>protecting humanity from aliens
>villain

>>86115038
>Kurosawa is good because he is Japanese and I am on 4chan

>>86114822
>if TFA was set much later

The Republic and Jedi can be made incompetent without making the OT generation look bad.

The First Order can have more clout since it's not made up of Imperial scraps, it can be a legit power claiming Imperial succession

History can be distorted and rewritten given enough time, so Kylo can have a legit excuse for his pro-Vader stance and not look retarded, living so soon after the fact. Anakin's ghost can pop up and say "dude stop", but he can just claim he's lying, Vader killed him

>>86114952
You forgot miserable.
Also that really important shot of Supes fighting in front of 7/11, the crucial point of fighting inside of iHop and let us never ever forget the absolute kino fight outside of Sears.

>>86115094
>Kurosawa is not good because i've never seen any of his movies but if i say he's not i may look like i know wtf im talking about.

>>86115196
but I saw the superior Western version of his movies and the sci-fi version of one of his movies

>>86113602
............................

>>86114531
>DCEU fans are mad that JL is a quipfest.

I always wanted (and knew) JL would be lighter. I just don't know to what extent. It was definitely made even moreso due to negative responses. I put my trust in Snyder though. He has never let me down.

>>86115005
And Superman died a hero. They BOTH found a loophole to continue being heroes forever. I loved that aspect.

>>86114568
One of my favorite scenes which shows all of these is when he saves the man falling from the helicopter. I love watching the whole scene play out, but if you must, skip to 1:40. The best part, IMO, is when he asks "are you okay?"

https://youtube.com/watch?v=xqlaXylsMwQ

>>86115605
>I put my trust in Snyder though. He has never let me down.
Unironically this.

>>86116046
I love how just Watching the movie blows almost every complaint about it out of the water.

People just WANT to hate it.

>>86111703
agreed, but I think saying that it's bad and not enjoying it is two different thing

>>86114952
Yep. I'm open to any interpretation when it comes to adaptations but the quality has to be there in the end product. The movie just sucks. It epitomizes everything wrong with big budget paint by numbers studio pictures.

Apparently people think Snyder's visuals are his greatest strength but everything he does looks like dogshit. I get that the people praising these aren't really movie people but you'd think they could lay down the corporate loyalty when it's nothing but an insulting product.

>>86116182
>I get that the people praising these aren't really movie people
wrong
you what assuming does

Melancholia
Wins of Desire
THX 1138
The Thin Red Line
Jagten

My top five and I love BvS.

>>86116181
sure
but it is bad though
its a horrible mess of a movie

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>>86116243
nope
>yfw that will NEVER be true

>>86116274
except it was
a lot of the movie didnt make sense
wonder woman couldnt speak for shit
a lot of the character's incentives were very unclear
batman murdered the shit out of people becuase fuck it why not
the music was obnoxious
not to mention the whole martha thing was just plain retarded

>>86114952
>Long, Boring
Watch Bayformers if you need action 100% of the time you fucking faggots.
>Poorly written
Not really, not perfect but not bad ether.
>Poorly directed.
Except for the tornado scene, the filming and direction of Mos is god damn approaching flawless.
>Poorly edited, jumbled
The theatrical cut of BVS sure, UC of BVS nope, and Mos fucking hell no.
>Visually offensive
How in the fuck?

>>86116348
>a lot of the movie didnt make sense
stopped reading there

your and idiot

>>86116363
yeah because you dont have an arguement

>>86116371
No, because your and idiot.
Can't you read?

>>86116381
I can
apparently you can't

>>86116348
>a lot of the movie didnt make sense
Can't think of a single thing that didn't make sense except maybe what would Lex have done with Doomsday had Batman actually defeated Superman.
>wonder woman couldnt speak for shit
Your fucking deaf.
>batman murdered the shit out of people becuase fuck it why not
Not a technical or film making flaw.
>the music was obnoxious
Except for the Wonder Woman theme, the music was subtle and audibly gorgeous.

>>86116371
No you obviously don't have a argument since you chose not to share what supposedly didn't make sense you

>>86116409
yeah because you didn't read the rest of the post
its not surprising

>>86116421
your and idiot

>>86113081
>Deconstruction
>fictional work
>no capitalization
You sure as well were not.

Go back to TVTropes.

>>86116443
and you are a poor troll

>>86116348
Watch the movie and all those """""problems""""" fade away. Keep watching until you get it, or start reading books and increasing your brain power.

>>86116471
>it makes sense you are just too stupid to understand it

you sound like zack snyder

>>86116483
I wish I were Zack Snyder.

>>86113692
Not him, and I actually liked it a great deal, but it had too much bloat in the last quarter.
Also, no space nuke.

>>86116046
>>86116091
OMG he saves 1 person in 2 movies! Haters BTFO! Never mind the shit CGI from a bad videogame, the terrible acting, atrocious editing, the bad script and awful action. Ignore that the film ends with a pointless battle against a generic CGI monster, ignore the fact that a journalist doesn't understand the value of controlling a narrative, ignore the fact that Lois Lane never publishes an article or testifies before congress- it's all a conspiracy against Snyder.

Don't worry, I'm sure your petition to lynch all critics will succeed when JL gets 40% on RT and can't break a billion. Of course your 5000 word essays aren't cringe inducing acts worthy of a prequel defender.

The film is fucking awful. Go to MOS answers, DC_Cinematic or whatever hugbox you prefer and circlejerk there.

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>>86116449
>Go back to TVTropes.
Tired of trotting out the r/dccinematic boogeyman are we?

>>86116498
praise be

>>86116522
>Also, no space nuke.
What?

>>86116549
TVTropse has been hated here for years though

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>>86116542
>DC_Cinematic
Why do you keep on saying this?

You seem fixated/obsessed.

>>86116564
Yeah, but as an insult it's been in mothballs for years.
It's liking trying to oval post.
You come off as out of touch.

>>86116549
TVTropes is the destination for fools that don't know the history behind the 'Deconstruction' philosophy.
>>86116562
Nukes in space make these absolutely incredible, beautiful explosions, but the nuke they launched at Supes and DD was off-screened. I get it for the Theatrical cut, but not including it in the 420k blaze it cut is a travesty. I also seems right up Snyder's alley too.

>>86116542
>OMG he saves 1 person in 2 movies! Haters BTFO!
No he saved 7-8 Billion people 3 times.
That 1 is just a example of him saving a person individually which people irrationally want more of when more important things are at stake.
>Never mind the shit CGI from a bad videogame
Go back to your men on wires you fucking shitbag.
>the terrible acting
Not one single performance was bad let alone terrible, not fucking one.
>atrocious editing
Only in the TC of BVS.
>the bad script
Not in anyway.
>awful action
Mos had the best fight scenes in super hero film history.
>Ignore that the film ends with a pointless battle against a generic CGI monster
Superman's sacrifice wraps up the entire overarching theme of the 2 films that the world is worried and paranoid about him.
Stan Winston is dead, practical effects are dead, I hate it as much as you, but you never ever ever where going to get a non CGI Doomsday, that is not a flaw with this film.

This is probably the worst troll thread I've ever seen

>>86116712
shoo shoo phoneposter

>>86111475
Nobody hated that arc because he was aggressive.

They hated it because it went on for so long and nothing was happening.

>>86116755
you wish I was on a phone

Is it a stretch to think that Clark knew Bruce would get triggered by Martha's name?

When Lex forces Superman to fight Batman, the first thing Clark says it is "Bruce". He knew who Bruce Wayne was. Now if he's a journalist, surely he's capable of digging up information, information like Thomas and Martha Wayne's murder when Bruce was a kid.

I'm not sure if it's in Superman's nature to do something like this, but it's just a thought.

>>86116773
>Is it a stretch to think that Clark knew Bruce would get triggered by Martha's name?

why would he think it would work

>>86116756
Buddy, I was there. So much of the thread after the comic was posted was just bitching about Jurgens committing the sin of 'not muh'.

It was because he was aggressive. Go find it in the archive if you must.

>>86111475
I legitimately cannot tell if you guys are trolling me or not right now.

>>86116802
It's trolling
all arguements in this thread boil down to NO U

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>>86116802
I'm not trolling.

>>86116785
He was about to be killed and it was a desperate measure to try and save himself.

>>86116829
Its such a bad plot point though
like it doesnt make any fucking sense
sure batman is a momma's boy but why the fuck did that work

>>86116589
It's multiple people. You really do belong there.

>>86116836
>sure batman is a momma's boy but why the fuck did that work
Because it shows that Clark has a human mother and therefor a human connection, dispelling the notion that he is a alien god toying with humans as his playthings.

>>86116800
Maybe that initial thread, but all other threads I remember complaints mainly about nothing happening for 6 fucking issues.

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>>86116817
>>86116824

The more people try and defend BvS and MoS, the more I wonder . . . Do they know who Superman is?

Like, thematically and symbolically?

I know I'm going to be bombarded by "Yes I have! You haven't!" I want to propose a proper challenge.

First, you have to define thematically and symbolically what Superman is. You must do more than just state what he is, but cite examples of him demonstrating these virtues in non-DCEU material (be it Comics, Cartoons, or TV). I'm not picky, but given the nature of comics, the more well regarded/influential a work is, the more 'credit' your examples you give will be (so citing the one or two times he killed someone vs. all the times he worked to save people who were guilty as sin doesn't really hold up well).

Then, THEN! You must find where these elements are present and how they are presented in MoS.

However, before you start, all who take up this challenge must acknowledge once thing:

A lot of BvS is based on Dark Knight Returns. While Dark Knight Returns is a great Batman story, it is a TERRIBLE Superman story.

If you do not agree with that, argue your case with examples before you even start.

>>86116773
One youtuber had this theory and I personally agree with it. It's the only explanation for why he said "Martha" and not "Martha Kent." Plus it goes in line with Superman's super-brain making super-tactics at super-speed. He literally steals Lex's plan, subverts it, and uses it to his advantage.

>>86114171
>Where? All this stuff was in the movie

>Move: Enters Ship
>Lex doesn’t know what he will find or learn inside the ship but he is rewarded with command and the opportunity to learn from the knowledge of 100,000 worlds. Lex wants to learn all he can but he naturally asks two questions tied to his underlying motivation.
>How can he defeat Superman?
>Any others out there like Superman?
>Batman has the Kryptonite and if he fails, fine, Lex moves on to his next plan to strike at Superman. So it’s reasonable that the first line of questions relate to defeating Superman should Batman fail. In response, the ship teaches Lex about Doomsday. Of course, all of these machinations are meaningless if the cosmos is filled with similarly-powered paragons just waiting in the wings to replace Superman should he die. So a natural second line of questions asks, “What is the most powerful thing in the cosmos which might come to our little blue planet?” In response, the ship teaches Lex about Darkseid. Lex learns Darkseid is coming and so a ticking clock appears.
>I-I'm just smarter than you that's why I can use fanfiction to fill in the dots not directly in the film! R-r-retard

And a fucking several thousand word essay certainly wasn't in the movie if someone this dense can even realize that.

>>86111475
stop using "memes" as a excuse for why this movie was badly received. It was just shit, plain and simple

>>86116945
But why would I spend minutes of my life doing this 4u?

All I'll say is that the DCEU is great and that Busiek's Secret Identity is better than ASS.

>>86117060
(not true, by the way)

File: 250px-Superman-secretidentity1.jpg (30KB, 250x388px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 250x388px

>>86117070
You're only half right.

>>86114683
>Lex himself said that he figured Superman's secret identity by following Lois and setting her as bait to test his theory.
>Lex learned Batman's secret identity because Batman was investigating Lex and got careless.

That doesn't refute what he said or make any of how Lex found out their identities offscreen justifiable.

I feel this is needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDMQ3tXNKgM

>>86117156
Based Kristian

>>86116945
>You must do more than just state what he is, but cite examples of him demonstrating these virtues in non-DCEU material
He is optimistic and hopeful about human nature.
See pic related.

In BVS he states to Lois that he wasn't looking for anything amiss in the court room because he hoped the better side in humanity would be present.

He can see and hope for the persistence in the good in human beings and still be aware of the darker aspects of us which is part of what the DCEU Pa warned him about like any good father should, the core can be intact without him being needlessly naive.

File: How+about+this+also+new+52+superman+_f0febda9cb47725e83444e100964d4e6.jpg (71KB, 600x368px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 600x368px

>>86117186
>Pic related

It is utterly sas how people feel the need to make excuses just accept that people didn't like the movie and move on with your life.

>>86117280
>It is utterly sas how people feel the need to make excuses
I'm trying to help YOU.

>>86116945
>While Dark Knight Returns is a great Batman story, it is a TERRIBLE Superman story.
Disagree, I think its acknowledging of Clark wanting to save people above all else that he would sacrifice his free will to do so and so his friends would not be hunted down.
I think that incarnation of Superman sees Earth as human's domain first and foremost and if the can see that the absolute majority of the USA clearly has lost any will to tolerate super heroes and the violence and fear they bring, he does not feel its his place to challenge that.

>>86116884
That doesn't make any fucking sense!
The criminals had mothers. The terrorist warlords had mothers. Every hitler or evil asshole Batman has fought came from a mother.
Clark having a mother should NOT dispel Bruce's antagonizing that instantly. To even believe such a thing is so out of character or belie-ability you have to swallow literal stupid pills to accept it.

>>86117280
I am absolutely FINE with people not liking it, I have a problem with them treating me and others bad for liking it and refusing to allow it to be viewed as a valid alternate incarnation of the characters.

>>86117280
>>86117317
>oh yeah, explain this!
>s-stop! the essays mean it's bad!
>excuse! excuses!

These people are idiots. The DCEU is objectively good.

>>86117186
>>86117200

That is indeed a good example. And I'm glad to see it made.

There is a problem with it, though and it's . . . the surrounding circumstances. The example you cite has him . . . being punished for his optimistic view of humanity. It has him be "Needlessly naive" as you put it. The events of that scene send him down a darker path that fits more in with the overall tone of the two films (which goes right down to the color pallet).

So, not really a good example under scrutiny, and in the large view, it's rather small. Awash in a sea of grim and gritty . . . His optimism was punished. His naivety exploited.

Compare that to the Reeves first film, and while Metropolis is a very grounded/real world place (for the most part), with muggings, criminals of all sorts. . . Superman might as well have stepped out of a Norman Rockwell painting.

And the film doesn't make him look naive or foolish. He does what's right and helps people. Even when they don't know it. Saving Lois from the mugger as Clark is a defining scene for the film as a whole.

>>86117363
He knew Clark was not evil or had done anything wrong at that point. He was after him because he feared what he could become if he was too detached from humanity. Showing that he had human loved ones he would literally try and save with his dying breath makes that possibility much less likely to eventually occur.

>>86117363
Superman is innocent though. His only "crime" was being a powerful alien with no link to humanity. Take the "alien" part away and Batman has nothing left to stand on. And, unlike BvS haters, when Batman was proven wrong he changed his stance.

>>86117388
You don't have a very compelling line of reasoning. Whenever anyone brings up a complaint or criticism you just go
>No you're wrong because I'm right
>No I'm just smarter than you
Have you ever been in a debate club? You don't score points by shitposting sempi.

Most of the thread is convinced you're a troll. If you'd like to convince them you're not, you should try to tackle the flaws of this movie with real substance and willingness, not blindly just tell everyone the movie was a masterpiece and we're all just too retarded to understand Synder's perfect Shakespearean circlejerk.

>>86117388
>objectively

Opinions are never objective, junior.

>>86117438
>And, unlike BvS haters
>BvS haters
Troll badge
now

>>86117358
Given that the narrative makes his sacrifice ultimately worthless and ends with him doing the very thing you claim he fought to prevent (and doing so himself as implied later on), that's really hard to hold up as an example of remaining true to who he is.

Superman can fail, sure, but the narrative's use of that failure is what is truly important.

The disconnect from humanity to describe is also rather antithetical. It happens in Kingdom Come, but that's a plot point rather than "An Aspect of Superman's Character".

>>86117438
>Superman has no link to humanity.

And you don't think that's a PROBLEM?!

>>86117403
Some of us desperately WANT the surrounding world and tone of the story to be dark and meaningful while leaving the core of the character the same.

We want him to be a fully rounded human being that knows their is consequences to being reckless just because the right thing SHOULD happen.

It is not a required aspect of the character that his hope and optimism be proven right.
Hope & optimism is NOT inherently good for every given situation.
The point of these films is to give us a Superman who is aware of that.
Character Development!!!

>>86117425
>>86117438
Just because you're projecting motivations onto the character doesn't make the psychology any less absurd. Batman suspected Superman was a threat, "Even a 1%" chance of that was his conviction. The knowledge of having people close to him just magically removes that chance and all anxieties, somehow? But I'm sure you're just going to rationalize it somehow.

>>86117510
>Whenever anyone brings up a complaint or criticism you just go
No, I go "look at this evidence from the movie" and they go "haha you have to write an essay to defend your point so you're wrong!!!" In which case they concede the point.

>you should try to tackle the flaws of this movie with real substance and willingness
First you have to give examples of the flaws. Most of the "flaws" are very opinion based. "I didn't like character" isn't a flaw "character did not act well" is, and all of the characters did act well. Show me your proof so I can disprove it.

>>86117592
Well yeah, if it were true. That was Batman's argument and when it was proven false he changed his mind. You get it now?

>>86117605
Then you don't want a Superman movie. You want a guy with godlike powers going around punching people movie.

There's over 7 decades of history and fanship that you MoS/BvS latecomers are contending with, and you cannot win. You will not change Superman into your edgy god fantasy.

>>86117542
The many thousands of people he certainly saved during the time that he worked for the government would disagree with the idea that it was worthless.
He hunted Arrow & Batman down because they where putting lives at risk.

>>86111475
What about
>muh bad writing
>muh shit pacing
>muh horrible acting (Eisenberg)
>muh plot that makes no god damned sense
>muh boring
>muh bad CG
>muh wasted potential
>muh way too much attempted JL setup in too little time
>muh shit movie

>>86117648
Extrapolating is what you're doing.
You're not letting the evidence stand up on it's own merits, you're putting forth whatever interpretation you can come up with and putting that spin ahead contrary to the tone of the movie.
>They go "haha you have to write an essay to defend your point so you're wrong!!!"
That's called an appeal to authority fallacy. It's where you try to point to another source or link as an authority on the matter and act as if it supports your credibility, when really it weakens your own argument because you're lying on crutches that you expect people to rely on.
It's much the same as a religious arguer constantly quoting the bible or some church website to shield their arguments.

>>86117648
People have given arguments in this thread and supported them. Like about Lex's motivation being dumb.
And than you go and over-explain and attempt to present it as deep and nuanced, but in the context of watching the movie and experiencing it without a thousand words of over-analysis, to them it still appears dumb. That's like putting shit in someones mouth and trying to methodically argue and write essays why it should taste delicious, without understanding that interpretations and paragraphs wont make it suddenly taste good somehow.

>>86117691
>Then you don't want a Superman movie.
What part of "leaving the core of the character the same" do you not understand?
I want him to be hopeful and optimistic, he CAN fucking be that without being childish and naive.
>Edgy
Not a single thing in Mos or Bvs is edgy.
>God fantasy
I don't even faintly want him to be a god above us, I loved that he clearly was upset by the Mexicans worshiping him.

I want exactly what we have always gotten, just a few more serious toned stories and Clark being a mature person fully aware of his surroundings and is still hopeful despite that.

>>86117857
>Not a single thing in Mos or Bvs is edgy
They literally turned Jimmy God Damned Olsen into a CIA deep cover spy who got shot in the face right at the start of the film.

>>86117857
>Not a single thing in Mos or Bvs is edgy.
Not evil dream superman burning down people alive with his heat vision and stripping/torturing Bats in a creepily homoerotic scene?

>>86117605
But we have yet to establish if the core of the character was the same, anon.

Especially given the linked video above from Kaptain Kristian which states

>"It's the simplicity of Superman that makes him such a compelling character. He is a hero with perspicuity in his motivations. We always know what Superman would do, because he will always do what's right."

Runs counter to what you are asking for. Having differnet views on a character is fine, but you need to understand that you are holding a minority position in this case, and the bulk of stories out there, in multiple media forms, tend towards the paragon Superman.

Yet, character growth, arc, and change can occur. But more often than not it happened through and with his supporting cast members.

Which is why many feel the death of Jimmy Olsen, for instance, shows a complete failure in understanding the Superman mythos from Snyder. Especially comments stated (IIRC) he didn't know what else to do with him.

>It is not a required aspect of the character that his hope and optimism be proven right.

I think the fact that there is so much heated discussion about this fact as compared to the original Reeves/Donner film or the Fleischer shorts, Superman: The Animated Series, etc. demonstrated the opposite.

And yet all still have character development.

It says a lot that Mark Miller was so taken aback by MoS and BvS that he made Huck to demonstrate that yeah, a person who simply helps others as best he can when he can is not a character who needs to lose his hope and optimism or learn to temper them.

But you are arguing that he should be dragged into the mud that way. Rather than from virtually any other angle. Not responsibility to that power. Not worry over emotional connections. No. His views are wrong, and must be changed.

When he, as a character, embodies those views.

Damn. I need to get Huck in Trade . . .

>>86111475
>shit editing
>wasting the death of Superman on his second movie
>instantly alluding to his resurrection less than 15 minutes later
>introducing Batman as a paranoid asshole who wants to kill someone who is clearly doing his best to help the world
>lex luthor is a just evil zuckerberg from the social network
>superman knows where and when Lois is in danger, but not when his own mother is in danger
>everything about the Martha scene

Its alright if you enjoyed the movie, but don't pretend that it wasn't a shit movie. It had it's good points, but you had to sit through a lot of shit to get to those points.

I'll say it again, DCEU defense force anons have the same symptoms as beaten wife syndrome. The amazing lengths theyll go to convince people that their universe isnt shit. I want a good DC movie universe, I really do, but Im not going to deny WB fucked up

>>86117857
>Not a single thing in Mos or Bvs is edgy.

>the truck scene
>the neckbreaking scene
>batman branding criminals and effectively giving said criminals a death sentence
>that "the bat is dead" "do you bleed" sequence

>Not a single thing

>>86117668
Anon, the person was claiming that, in effect, Batman was right (as near as I can tell, this thread is getting a bit circuitous).

>>86117973
Bruce being a paranoid asshole is fine, but Snyder kind of dropped the ball with that aspect when Bruce does about as much detective work as a google search.

>>86117976
DCEU haters have the same symptoms as people on the autism spectrum. It's hilarious how obsessed they are over something they hate.

>>86117703
Anon, you claimed that he became a Goverment tool so
>>86117358
>his friends would not be hunted down.

And yet he did do just that, it doesn't matter how many people he saved. Since that is tangential to the point being made.

>You're autistic
>No, you're autistic

Guys! Guys! Guys!

We're on /co/!

We're ALL on the spectrum.

>>86118057
You sure seem to like to liken critics to mental inferiors a lot don't you?
>All these haters didn't get it they're just retards
>All these haters are so dumb they don't understand Snyder's brilliance because of their autism
Also considering your use the word 'hater', I'm going to say you're not far off the spectrum yourself.

>>86118119
No only BvM haters us real fans who love the movie are clearly gifted normies since our brains can understand and appreciate the genius of edgy violent superman :^)

>>86118057
>Haters
Drink bleach

>>86118146
Obsessing over something you really like is natural. Obsessing over something you hate? Completely unnatural. You have to force yourself into doing that.

>>86118119
I'm not, I'm just conducting a sociological study.

Ultimatum is edgy, Nemesis is edgy, Cannibal fucking holocaust is edgy. Mos & Bvs are simply serious.

>>86117955
No that is just par for the course for dark future visions.
>>86117982
>>the truck scene
Its edgy for a person who had put up with abuse for 33 years to have a outburst of pent up spite in him?
>the neckbreaking scene
Was heart pounding and gut punching.

>>86117929
Jimmy Olsen is a shit comedy relief character 90% of the time.

>>86118196
I would think obsession in any case is questionably unhealthy anon. You sound like you need help

>>86118239
>Isn't this edgy
No it's just
>Isn't this badly directed
No it was actually
>Isn't acting like an asshole to spite a minor jerk in a bar full of jerks not what heroes do?
No because he totally deserved it-

Just stop.

>>86118239
>heart pounding and gut punching
No.

>>86118289
Are you a teenage girl in the 80's? Liking something and being a "nerd" isn't inherently bad.

>>86118267
>Fuck all of Supermans supporting cast
True Jimmy is often character relief but I dont see how his treatment in BvS was justified

>>86118330
Did I say being a nerd was bad anon? No. But again the level obsession, regardless of positive/negative output, is still something to keep in check.

>>86118267
So turning him into a CIA plant for the sole purpose of murdering him in an edgy way is not the definition of edgy because he was a comedy relief character?

>>86118239
We know what the context of those situations were and stating them does not make them any less edgy.

And the movies were edgy. Way too edgy for Superman movies. That's why the general fandom rejected them as too-violent drivel and the Naruto reading nu-fans ate it up with a spoon.

>>86118407
If anything taking a typical "comedy relief" character and killing him off is the absolute height of edginess.

>>86118341
>>Fuck all of Supermans supporting cast
No Lois was handled superbly. And Perry didn't get enough screen time but had good characterization.
I wouldn't even mind us getting the sailor fanboy of Superman.
Its Jimmy SPECIFICALLY that is crap. But I hate kid side kicks most of the time anyway.

>>86118298
How was it badly directed?
No he probably didn't deserve it.
Clark overreacted I agree, SUPERMAN IS ALLOWED TO MAKE FUCKING MISTAKES!

>>86118407
It could easily have been a CIA Agent just using Jimmy's name.

>>86118498
Edgy is pointless violence or cruelty for the sake of pointless violence or cruelty.
If the context makes it make sense then its not pointless and if the set up makes sense then its not extreme or taken too far.

>>86118498
>Way too edgy for Superman movies. That's why the general fandom rejected them as too-violent drivel and the Naruto reading nu-fans ate it up with a spoon.
But Superman has plenty of main universe comics that are just as serious and violent.
And I fucking love Mos and don't give a fuck about 95% of anime.

>>86118653
>Edgy

That's the point, kiddo. The violence that was used in the movies was out of place and used just for the sake of violence itself. It did nothing to elevate the movie/s in any way at all.

When you take something that's normally bright, hopeful, fun and generally non-violent (like Superman) and add darkness, hopelessness, angst and ultra-violence to it, it is absolutely edgy in the worst way possible.

>>86118572
Personally I think Lois could have been a bit more bitchy