"CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR" DELETED SCENE

>>85658450
Natasha seemed to have this weird role where she wasn't sure who's side she was on and it wasn't really explored all that well.

>>85658450
>Man, they deleted a lot of good stuff from the script.

Its the same shit that you get in every Marvel movie, throw away lines that explain someones backstory instead of showing us.

And the other scenes were the same, a couple of lines that got deleted, a couple of shots that lasted like 5 seconds in the airport scene, etc


That's what I hate about Marvel films in general, you can tell that the plots are written around the big action scenes.

I'm not going to make this into a vs thread, but despite wha you think about BvS and SS, I love the fact that they shoot soooo many different kind of scenes that is acutally the extended editions and deletted scenes are worth talking about.


This shit sounds like a repeat of her scene lame ''backstory'' scene in Age of Ultron

This film was fucking shit.

>>85658534
It's pretty obvious she agrees with Stark from a pragmatic viewpoint, but would rather stick around with Steve whom she actually likes.

And in the end she ends up with neither.

>>85658711
>I'm not gonna make this into a vs thread
>Makes it into a vs thread

2/10, be more subtle.

>>85658711
>This shit sounds like a repeat of her scene lame ''backstory'' scene in Age of Ultron

maybe that's why it was cut???

>>85658450
team iron man has a lot of good arguments, pretty sure they deleted it to make it a little more even

>>85658712
t. snyderfag

>>85658876
But Team Cap has the best argument given that every form of government in the MCU has been shown to be corrupt

>>85658963
Team Cap's entire argument boiled down to >muh bucky.

He let his personal feelings get in the way to protect his friend and in turn showed he was no better than these corrupt governments.

>>85659044

also muh civil rights

>>85659044
But Steve realized he was in the wrong at the end which is why he dropped the shield and then told Tony if he ever needs him again, he'll be there.

>>85658963
they said they just want to play along until they find a better way how to handle the government, no one really wanted to work for the government but the stakes were too high at the moment

steve is such a hothead

>>85659044
>Muh Bucky

In case it flies over your head, Bucky is the personification of the accords, i.e. superpowered people doing missions that they were ordered to.

>>85659242
You know who else played along with a less-than-ideal situation?

Nazi Germany.

>>85659291
Godwin'd

>>85659044
>Team Cap's entire argument boiled down to >muh bucky.

But that's wrong.

>>85659291
what situation do you mean? the jew situation or the Rheinland situation?

>>85658806

I think she agrees with both of them to a degree. She understands the need for transparency (being a spy who always worked in the shadows) and accountability. At the same time, she knows that Steve won't let the people he cares about be railroaded through a justice system looking for an escape goat (the trial against Bucky, alive or dead, would have been a sham).

>>85659044
>>85659274
Not only that, the way Bucky was dealt with seemed indicative of the road the world was going down with its mistrust of enhanced individuals. Their orders were to kill on sight, because the individual was considered to be dangerous enough that an arrest and fair trial was out of the question. Same with Wanda, and how Tony was giving in to the popular hysteria by keeping her confined, even though she personally hadn't actually done anything wrong.

>>85659483
>keeping her confined
she had to stay in the mansion until the hysteria was over - that actually made sense, never got why she couldn't see it herself though but on the other hand yeah i think she is still supposed to be a teenager in the movie?

>>85659548
The United Nations had labled her a living weapon. They literally revoked her status as a person, and she was only kept at the Compound because Tony pushed for it.

And, as the Raft later proved, Tony overstimated how much influence he actually had in the bigger picture of the Accords.

>>85659044
RLM pls, he was just an example of why the accords are horseshit

>>85659274
>>85659483
/thread

>there are seriously people on /co/ and /tv/ that didn't get Civil War

>>85658963
Fergusion and LA has shown there are a lot of corrupt US police departments.

That doesn't mean I'm going to start ignoring the rules they all enforce or burn them to the ground.

>>85659548
>I think she is still supposed to be a teenager in the movie?
Move like still an emotionally scarred refugee from a 3rd world shithole that had a hate boner for Stark. So her house arrest was kind of like Stark lording over her like when one of his bombs landed in her living room. But I may be reading too much into it.

>>85659274
>>85659322
>>85659483

I think people underestimate how subtle the Russos are, which is no surprise really because they have worked in both Community and Arrested Development, where subtlety in writing was an important element.

>people don't see the accords being an allusion to the winter soldier
>people don't realize that Stark is wrong by default and lets his feelings and bad state of mind in control, as he contradicts himself in IM2 (government control) and AoU (mind control)
>people don't realize that Zemo won as everything went according to his plan. He knew how everything was gonna end because he had the zola algorith findings in his disposal.

>>85659776
I guess I can understand the first two, but claiming Zemo's efforts were in any way aided by Zola intel is really pushing it.

>>85659776
This.

And on the other side, we have Lex Zuckerberg being "both plot and thematic exposition: the character"

>>85659860
Dude, please don't start company wars here just now. I don't want HIM to arrive.

You probably know who I'm on about.

>>85659833
Why?

He had access to the hydra files. Zola's algorith was used to predict the actions and reactions of certain people. That's pretty much how he knew what would happen if he bombed the un convention and who they were gonna call for the psychic evaluation.

>>85659931
That wasn't implied anywhere in the movie. It's ltierally fanfic, and doesn't even make sense.

>>85658712
Better that the comic Civil War though, where the Marvel Universe went full retard

>>85660006
Explain why.

We saw Natasha leaking all the Shield/Hydra files to the public in WS.
Zemo admits that was his main source of info for his plan.

And his plan would not have worked without the Zola algorithm, it would be too far fetched to know who the germans would call for a psychic evaluation without the algorithm.

File: Really Negro.jpg (14KB, 400x300px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 400x300px

>>85659704
There's a huge difference between you obeying traffic laws and superheroes literally being deployed somewhere because of a superior's agenda.

>>85658450
>Don’t let them push us into the cold
Shit that's good. Guess they wanted to give the best line to Black Panther.

>>85659064
Wut?

All Caps team did every day was violate people's rights

In fact they literally should be in prison for the Nigeria bombing. They are 100% culpable

>>85660157

They weren't trying to capture Bucky alive

>>85660082
>Zola algorithm
I'm not sure how much you want to extrapolate to real life, but if they did their research correctly Zola's algorithm was just a program that turned an input dataset into an output.

Meaning that even if the process/program/algorithm was destroyed in the explosion, the dataset (input OR output) might still have been available. Even though the output would me much more difficult, seeing as the ships were destroyed.

test

>>85660157
>All Caps team did every day was violate people's rights
That's the thing, though. Individuals (a small group) would have a fairer time deciding what was worth violating or not.

The disagreement between Cap and Tony is basically the number of people taking the decision. The decision is always cruel and biased, but it has to be taken regardless. You either go for the maximum false-positives or maximum false negatives.

It's the trade-off that they ALMOST agree on discussing about, before Tony has already jumped the gun and took measures against Wanda.

>>85660082
>it would be too far fetched to know who the germans would call for a psychic evaluation without the algorithm.

Not really. He is a genius-level military tactician for a reason.

>>85660264

But Tony is leader and representative of the Avengers. Wanda is his employee. Granted, keeping her in the building was fucked up, but he can keep her from participating in missions and working publicly.

>While it’s not the solo movie that fans are still hoping for,
Who even is hoping for that?

>>85660105
Difference in scale but the basics are there. You are basiclly saying that supers should only obey themselves on the off chance their superior is corrupt. Cops don't stop enforcing laws or go off on their on because their department might create a system to only target innocent individuals. Instead (good) ones work through the system to fix the problem.

Same goes with the supers. Is Cap and friends going to get fucked up the ass by the same shit we see with the UN? Undoubtedly, but that is life. And who knows, maybe our new alien overlords will be better at running this shit after they take over cause Russia & US couldn't decide what hero gets to play lead.

>>85660351
Tony was no longer the leader and Wanda is a volunteer, not an employee.

>>85660351
That's the point, though. They agree that there is a line, but they don't agree where the line is, nor who should decide it.

If both points weren't good points, there wouldn't even BE a discussion, and the movie would've been lopsided.

Of course, in a real world, Tony's way would be the chosen one since it's the easier to justify and deal with bureaucratically, but the real world still has sucky consequences because of it.

It's basically libertarianism vs. typical conservativistm.

>>85660351
Tony even says he's not the leader, come on.

>>85660219
>>85660308

According to Sitwell
>Zola's algorith evaluates people's past to predict their future
He also implies that the algorith has been running for some time, since it already has a lot of insight's targets listed, Stephen Strange among them.


Then, Natasha leaks the Shield/Hydra files to the public, and Zemo admits to have decrypted them.

He didn't use the Zola algorithm because it obviously cannot be run without Zola computer, but he used whatever findings Shield/Hydra had of it.

>>85658534
>Natasha seemed to have this weird role where she wasn't sure who's side she was on and it wasn't really explored all that well.
It was pretty obvious to me. All that Stark asked her was to sign her name next to the Accords. She doesn't agree with the Accords, but since her name is mud due to being a serial betrayer, she was happy to put her useless signature down in that piece of paper.

She is on the same side as Steve Rogers. It's just that Steve Rogers refuse to sign anything he doesn't believe in. While Natasha will sign anything for any reason and not care.

>>85660442
He is the public face and pays the legal fees, though. Cap is the more in-combat leader.

The Avengers function more as a typical band - the guy that calls the shots during rehearsal, the guy that actually composes and arranjes most stuff, the guy that actually leads the band in concert, etc, etc.

>>85660501
Right, but Sitwell might be a computation layman, and thus not a reliable narrator. Meaning that he may be referring to the output. It's irrelevant either way, since it wasn't in their system and just that thumb drive.

>>85659435
>looking for an escape goat
reactionimage.jpg

>>85660554
>Right, but Sitwell might be a computation layman, and thus not a reliable narrator. Meaning that he may be referring to the output. It's irrelevant either way, since it wasn't in their system and just that thumb drive.

Might be. You're making baseless assuptions though.

>>85660627
I'm just saying that it's irrelevant and that it's up to the writers to leave it flexible enough to not constrain themselves too much over it, since both ways work.

>>85660649
It is not irrelevant, since it is heavily implied that it was used.

>>85660681
Yes. But I'm saying that even if "implying" wasn't enough for some people, it still isn't prohibitive or contradictory for the story to keep on as it was.

>>85659704
>Ferguson
Didn't they just shoot a guy who tried to grab a gun?

>>85660721
Yea thats how one side defined it. However the state never decided to prosecute so legally its up in the air.

However I bring up the town because there was a Justice Department probe that revealed the department systematically targted blacks and other poor people as a revenue source through ticketing and harassment.

A clear abuse of power which according to Anti side logic means cops should never trust or follow their departments again.

>>85660501
>Zola's ALGORITHM evaluates people's past to predict their future

Only to the extent of "% likelihood to be a threat to Hydra's rule," dumbposter.

Are you genuinely autistic?

>>85658711
>Its the same shit that you get in every Marvel movie, throw away lines that explain someones backstory instead of showing us.

Yeah, that would totally be better. 40 minutes of extra flashback scenes. Preferably in the rain.

>>85660681
Not really. Zemo's whole thing is how he is willing to obsessively plan and observe. That's the point of the line about finally noticing the flecks of green in Cap's eyes.

He didn't use the algorithm. He just paid attention to how everyone was behaving, and knew the best way to play them.

>>85658450
I rather have had this than the Iron Manlet recruits Spider-boy scene.

>>85659645
There was a lot going on in the movie and I didn't get it right away but when it was over and I sat and reflected on it everything clicked together. Like reading a comic in single issues over half a year vs. reading them all collected as one story.

>>85662321

Typical Marvel Disney retard.

-''How about showing us her backstory insrtead of telling us?''
-''So you want like 2 hours of her backstory?????''

Is there such a thing as a strawmen answer? because this is it

>>85659776

WRONG, Cap is wrong by default because he wants to lead his team of super powered people without any goberment in the world having a say.

Then he gets pissed because Scalery Witch got house arrest in basically a mansion inside a mansion???

She helped Ultron destroy Sakovia or whatever is called and she helped the good guys like 40 minutes before Ultron completed his plan! She should be in jail regardless!

>>85663478

That sounds like those generic answers about a movie being while not saying a single thing about the movie.

''At first I dind't got it but then I realized that it was brilliant!!! Like holy shit is right there! Amazing! 10/10!''

>>85660853
>Yea thats how one side defined it
That's how the multiple black witnesses defined it. And how the video of him robbing the convenient store hours before defined it. But yeah the cop should have just let the nigger cap him in his cruiser.

>>85660721
a pretty daft thing to do. getting someone else's gun out of their holster is finicky and leaves you wide open to any number of chokeholds. the only way he had a chance of getting ahold of he gun would be if it was already drawn, which it had no reason to be

>>85663575
Governments murder people. People that volunteer to protect the innocent don't. Socialist cuck.

>>85663651
I find it hilarious how you ignored the entire second half of that post in favor of more reactionary nonsense

Thing about Marvel films is I completely forget about the plot and what happens like 2 days after leaving the cinema.

I'm still thinking about MoS, BvS and SS.

I think DC make better films

File: 1470181221349.webm (246KB, 1280x536px) Image search: [Google]

246KB, 1280x536px

>>85663797

>>85658450
Let's have a read.
>Natasha-
Yawn, seen enough of that one. Better off cut.

>>85663797
Why did you have to bring up DC? Do you actually WANT to start an argument and company wars?

>>85663575

What inherent right to rule does a government have, exactly, that makes this the case? Only that which the people grant it, and when Thanos takes out a continent for the lulz the people and government both will be wondering why they were so worried about a few blunders.

That's the big thing. Laws already exist to punisher law breakers and terrorist. Local and international ones. Any and all the Avengers could be tried under these. All the accords are is a blatant attempt by the (Hydra infiltrated) government to control the super team for their own ends.

I like civilization and accept governance, but seriously, some people kinda scare me with how subservient even in attitude they are. It's like they have no spine or freedom of thought.

>>85658450
>In Russia, in the Red Room, there were dozens of us. All girls, all young. We lived together. They let us be friends.
This is information we know already

>Then they dropped us in the tundra, two weeks’ walk from home, with just enough supplies for one of us to survive
csb

> Don’t let them push us into the cold,
2deep4u dialogue such as this has no place in a movie that doesn't take itself or the "civil war" seriously.

>>85663903
There is no war. DC is just superior.

File: 1470333587477.jpg (324KB, 700x700px) Image search: [Google]

324KB, 700x700px

>>85663980
>D-DC is just superior.

>>85663911
>>85663911
Shut up, Stirner

>>85664081
>Stirner
>I like civilization and accept governance.
>But still retain free thought and think critically.

>Shut up

Sorry I triggered you anon.

>Try to control Thor under the Accords, and when he refuses, try and bring him in.
>Big bad arrives.
>"Help us, Thor! Aren't you a hero?!"
>"Fuck off."

I hope at least one of the more powerful heroes is a least a little petty, as much as they can be while still doing what they do, about the whole Accords thing. It would have been Tony once.

File: 1429574345580.jpg (34KB, 720x480px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 720x480px

>85663980
You're not even trying anymore, are you /tv/ shitposter?

Not even worth a (you)

>>85664061
Don't fall for it, you dumb idiot

File: 1470513815375.gif (2MB, 350x188px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 350x188px

>>85663797
>I'm still thinking about MoS, BvS and SS

Me too, but mostly in my nightmares.

>>85658711
>That's what I hate about Marvel films in general, you can tell that the plots are written around the big action scenes.

Yes, nothing like Batman VS Superman: Dawn of Convoluted Recreations of Frank Miller Panels, Hamfisted Justice League Teases Sold on the Sole Premise of a Big Action Fight Scene that The Writing Exists Only to Build to Without Any Functional Character Development or Plot.

>>85664251
>I hope at least one of the more powerful heroes is a least a little petty, as much as they can be while still doing what they do, about the whole Accords thing. It would have been Tony once.
Well Thor really needed to get some damn respect. He is literally a royal diplomat and military force of a foreign power. The Earth's governments need to start treating him seriously, unlike what Ross said in Civil War. That was entirely out of line, to talk about Thor that way.

>>85658450
That's what you lose when you shoehorn Spiderman in.

>>85664589
>Thor saves everyone, and the heroes are asked to make a public statement, live.
>"You would all have seen we who protect you under the thumb of weak men, and if we refused, shackled and disgraced. So you wish me to make a declaration, to celebrate your dearly won freedom and safety? Go forth to Hel, and do not think to call upon the Son of Odin again as though he was your serf."

>>85659044
Except it didn't. Steve did protect Bucky because he's friends with him, but he knew something else was going on and defending Bucky would get them to the bottom of things. It wasn't just a personal thing, it was a save the world thing.

>>85659548
She did see it herself, in fact. She initially rejected Hawkeye's rescue and wanted to stay. Wanda knows she is dangerous.
She was conflicted between her guilt and fear of herself, and her loyalty to her mentor, Steve.

She initially is dismissive of the Accords, then the story Stark tells of the boy shifts her emotionally to being in favour.

The irony is the Lagos incident was the result of her hex shield failing due to her fear of herself.

Tony is afraid of her but also feels guilt towards her due to what his weapons did.

She has no country to fight her corner, she's an immigrant, has bizarre powers that would appear demonic to many cultures...an easy scape-goat for politicians.
Legally, even if the house arrest had the effect Stark was hoping for (to take the heat off her), it would be hugely difficult to re-instate her given the legal minefield surrounding her.

There is an irony that Tony, Bucky, and Wanda, have the most in common with each other in terms of struggling to overcome painful guilt.

The paradox is that governments are corrupt, but many of the Avengers are damaged, fallible people.

>>85665819
>The paradox is that governments are corrupt, but many of the Avengers are damaged, fallible people.

It would be more compelling if Thunderbolt Ross wasn't at the helm, Tony 'Ultron' Stark wasn't the star supporter of the accords, and Hydra wasn't still active in the world governments at the highest levels.

They just framed it in such a way that I find it difficult to impossible to give any credence to the accords.

>>85665819
>The paradox is that governments are corrupt, but many of the Avengers are damaged, fallible people.
The problem had never been the idea of the Accords existing. The problem had always been that the Accords as it currently stands sucks.

I would love to have a cure for cancer. I would not want a cue to csncer if that involves shooting people in the head and killing them. The Accords as a concept is justified, the execution just sucks. I can't support any law that doesn't work, no matter how moral the intent of the law was. A bad law isn't going to stop being bad just because it had good intentions.

>>85659776
>people don't realize that Stark is wrong by default
>people don't realize that Zemo won as everything went according to his plan
You do realize that Zemo only one because of Cap's actions right?

>>85665950
>Bucky didn't commit the bombing Panther was after him for. He is a victim of brain washing, and they wanted to lock him up and throw away the key, after Cap already stopped them killing him on sight.
>Implying we could respect or love a hero, let alone Captain America, who would let that stand.

Muh Tony. Muh accords.

>>85660082
Would the algorithm have predicted Wanda's error in Lagos?

>>85665950
>You do realize that Zemo only one because of Cap's actions right?
It appears you have no idea what Zemo's plan was.

Zemo want to break apart the Avengers. What he got in the end was actually only partially what he wanted. Zemo prefered if one of the three died; Steve Rogers, Bucky, or Tony Stark. Any one of them dying would damage the Avengers irreparably. Instead, all that happened was temporary damage, because they all survived.

Letting Bucky die wasn't going to be an option. It would be a miscarriage of justice. And Tony Stark knows this. The greatest opponent to Tony Stark's plans is Tony Stark, because Tony don't believe in the Accords himself.

>>85666157
>>85666098
I love how both of you are dancing around it because you have no idea how to response.

>>85666182
>I love how both of you are dancing around it because you have no idea how to response.
You can love whatever. A Steve Rogers who would sit back and let Bucky die is a Steve Rogers who is no longer an Avenger. And Tony Stark is fully aware he was not justified in the end.

>>85666157
>Zemo want to break apart the Avengers. What he got in the end was actually only partially what he wanted.
Uh...no you're wrong. He did break them apart because half of them are now wanted fugitives and all that's left is a broken robot, a cripple, and Iron Man. He pretty much got what he wanted and at no point in the movie did he state that he wanted them dead because the whole point of his plan is that he wanted to prove a point, hence why he was going to kill himself before BP stopped. Cap fell for his trap due to his own hubris he even states in the movie how much he had studied him.

> It would be a miscarriage of justice.
And he broke the law by doing so. So much for justice.

>>85666182

...but Zemo didn't win.

He wanted one of them dead and the Avengers disbanded. Instead, Tony is taking a time-out to deal with his PTSD, and is making an accords approved Avengers branch, while the REAL Avengers operate with impunity out of Wakanda/whereever.

Hell, he even fails at killing himself.

All Steve did was act as we would expect Captain America to, and it paid off in the end. Tony has been self destructing long before this. He hasn't been well since the portal incident in Avengers.

I really feel for Stark. I totally would have had a beer with him in Iron Man 2. Now, he is basically everything he used to hate.

>>85666157
What the fuck are you talking about? Bucky was the bait through the whole thing and Cap fell for it, he framed him knowing that Cap would be dumb enough to go against the Accrods thus breaking the team apart.

>>85664542

You did not got what I meant by that, the point is that you can tell that the movie is just a bunch of actors in a room talking or in front of a green screen talking.

That's why the extra scenes are just like 5 seconds action shots or small dialogues, because they only put effort in the main action scenes.

So in Civil War all you get is:

Action scenes
Characters sitting in a room talking
Characters traveling from one place to the other, usually to fight

The world in those movies feel really small and pointless.

''Ultron took over all the internet!!!! Let's not do anything cool with that at all!''

>>85658711
>That's what I hate about Marvel films in general, you can tell that the plots are written around the big action scenes.
Like BvS and MoS both weren't?

>>85658450

I dunno OP. That reads kinda shit

File: 1462605372498.jpg (180KB, 728x696px) Image search: [Google]

180KB, 728x696px

>>85666289
>>85666157
>Capfags are literally this fucking delusional

>>85658963

And Captain America isn't corrupt? He's a law unto himself. His morality is superior to yours or mine. He existence does nothing but prove Red Skull was right

>>85666289
>...but Zemo didn't win.
He did win hence the ending
>He wanted one of them dead and the Avengers disbanded
Nothing in the movie states this. His ultimate goal was to make a statement and break the Avengers apart which he did, had they killed one another would have been a treat but his ultimate goal didn't hinge on any of them dying.

>All Steve did was act as we would expect Captain America to, and it paid off in the end.
Yep now he's a wanted fugitive along with four other members of the Avengers. But I guess you miss the part where he admits that HE WAS WRONG.

>>85659483
>even though she personally hadn't actually done anything wrong

Wanda set Hulk on a populated city. She literally deserves the death penalty.

>>85663911

Yeah but we are not talking about Thanos destroying a continent.

We are talking about shit that the goberment can solve by themselves

>>85663575
She was not aware of Ultron's intent. She wanted to lash out at the world.

Much like Black Panther, she allowed her grief and anger to blind her to the bigger picture.

>>85666326

No, like literally the story doesn't matter as long as it leads to the airport scene.

Is like they make the Airport scene and final battle first and then they add context later

>>85666462
>She wanted to lash out at the world.

How is that better?

And still she was acting like a terrorist despite having good reasons.

>>85666445
why would we wanna talk about opening a jar?

>>85666316

I don't even... what, so you would have preferred Cap to break the fourth wall and act completely out of character because Zemo? And Tony's ever worsening paranoia and PTSD plays absolutely no factor in any of the events?

You see nothing wrong in sticking the people who saved the earth, several times, in a high-security deep-sea prison without a trial because they don't trust the same government that wanted to destroy Manhattan and has active members of Hydra at the highest levels?

Sorry, I can't fix that level of... whatever your deal is.

>>85658450
Gee, with training like that, I wonder why Russia lost the Cold War.

>>85666316
>What the fuck are you talking about? Bucky was the bait through the whole thing and Cap fell for it, he framed him knowing that Cap would be dumb enough to go against the Accrods thus breaking the team apart.
No, the point is that Zemo could have won via multiple paths. That was how he operates. If Bucky was left to die then there wouldn't be an Avengers as Steve would have left the organisation. Same outcome that was faster.

>>85666445

The overriding issue is that the Avengers formed to deal with precisely the sort of thing that the government couldn't. Like, for arguments sake, Thanos.

I personally don't think the Avengers had any place dealing with that situation at the opening of Civil War. Hydra? Sure, they are a risk to the world (order), and use alien tech.

That said, tying the Avengers up in red tape and endless governmental debates before they can act, or worse, having two thirds of them locked away under the sea would do nothing but bite them in the ass when they eventually DID need them.

You keep your world-saving team sweet, you don't piss them off.

What happens when you need Thor, but he is happy chilling on Asgard, or the Hulk, but he is wandering the world and giving you the middle finger?

These beings are pretty much above the law. Thor certainly is. And good luck calling Hulk to account, or Vision if he wasn't so sickeningly agreeable.

>>85666727

Why would the Avengers involve themselves in some low scale attack in Africa but didn't arrive in London when the Elves attacked

You know I really just clicked to how stupid this all sounds

>>85658450
Fuck, I wish they kept this line.

>>85666817
>Why would the Avengers involve themselves in some low scale attack in Africa but didn't arrive in London when the Elves attacked
The Elf attack occurred over literally a few hours.

>>85666817

Pretty much. I mean, I suppose extending to general do-good work makes sense in peaceful times, but it does seem a little below their pay grade and outside their mandate.

They were only supposed to 'assemble' when there was a country-to-worldwide risk. But then, I suppose it would have been harder to shoehorn in a Civil War plot that way. Except, you know, having Tony suffer any consequences at all for Ultron. That might have made a good jump off point.

>>85659548
>i think she is still supposed to be a teenager in the movie?

No, she's supposed to be in her early to mid twenties, but I think Chris Evans mentions that Steve's kind of afraid of her as well so he calls her "a kid" to be less afraid of her.

Are people more afraid of her telekinesis or telepathy?

>>85666817
The fight on earth lasted what an hour tops?

No way the avengers would be able to get there in time especially when that fight starts on another planet

>>85666431
He admits to being wrong to not tell Stark about Hydra being involved in his parents' death.

Not once he says he's wrong about protecting Bucky or the Accords. Because he isn't.

>>85666316
That's not really true. Zemo's plan was exposing the 1991 mission report so Stark and Rogers' schism would fracture the Avengers. He didn't even know about the Accords.

He framed Bucky to lure him out of hiding so he could acquire the location of the base where the report was. Everything that Rogers and Stark did afterwards they did by their own accord.

>>85667122

The amusing part is he has basically made the Avengers and New Avengers, rather than doing any serious damage. It's not like they won't work together, even if it's grudging, when they need to. And the kicker is both teams had to expand. They each gained several members and the only casualty was Rhodes.

>>85659900
Barneyfag?

>>85667298
>and the only casualty was Rhodes.
And the only reason he was injured was to leave room for his future evolution as War Machine. The equivalent of Tony's chest injury.

>>85667298
To expand on this.

The Avengers of Age of Ultron
>Cap
>Iron Man
>Thor
>Hulk
>Hawkeye
>Widow
>Wanda
>Pietro
>Vision

Avengers of Civil War, split into teams, by the end.
>Iron Man
>War Machine
>Vision
>Spider-Man

>Cap
>Falcon
>Ant-Man
>Wanda
>Hawkeye
>Widow (sorta)
>Black Panther
>Bucky
>Thor (We know who he will side with)
>Hulk (Again, no prizes)

An eight man (after casualties) team turned into a ten man team with several grudging reserves. Great plan Zemo. Worked perfectly. I suppose you did make Stark suffer, so points for that.

>>85658450
LOL, she's not even old enough in the films to have been trained in the USSR.

>>85667449
I don't think her age is mentioned. The USSR wasn't very long ago

>>85667507
The USSR dissolved 25 years ago.

>>85667449
>>85667507
I thought they gave her an imperfect serum which would explain for lack of aging?

>>85667449
>>85667507
>>85667541

I don't believe her age has ever been mentioned? She could easily have her comic age.

>>85666817
That shit was like maybe 2-3 hours long

>>85667439
Spider-Man isn't even really part of the team, War Machine is crippled, Thor will not be back until after Ragnarok on all likelihood and god knows about Hulk

>>85664542
>>85662321
>>85658711
>>85659860
Maximum shitposting.

>>>/v/eddit is that way.

>>85667507
Zola says the year she was born. She's mid 30s.

>>85667439
>Avengers of Civil War, split into teams, by the end.
>Iron Man
Old and beat
>War Machine
Older and beater, literally can't walk.
>Vision
Too afraid to sneeze and competely immobily.
>Spider-Man
No, he's still in high school.

>Cap
>Falcon
>Ant-Man
>Wanda
>Hawkeye
>Widow (sorta)
All on the run and without funding.
>Black Panther
Doesn't give a shit, at least yet.
>Bucky
Too frozen to care
>Thor (We know who he will side with)
>Hulk (Again, no prizes)
Literally in outer space.

We all know it won't last, but come on, he at least did better than literally anyone else.

File: 1468597576862s.jpg (4KB, 120x120px) Image search: [Google]

4KB, 120x120px

>>85658711

>>85667541
Yes, that is "not very long ago". Scarlett Johansson herself is 6 years older than that, and they could easily just add a couple years to Black Widow. She trained while she was still a little girl, that's the whole point

>>85667507
>I don't think her age is mentioned. The USSR wasn't very long ago
In the end just because the USSR had gone doesn't mean Russia would suddenly not need trained assassins. And Winter Solder showed that Hydra operated in Russia way past the fall of the USSR. Hydra worked on both sides of the Cold War so it didn't matter to them who actually won.

>>85658450
That's a retarded line. Why would you kill dozens of recruits presumably after already training them a bunch? What's the damn point? Does the program literally have a 1 in 100 survival rate? What if none of them made it back? Was the entire program up that point just a waste then?

It's just another dumb "super edgy training" bullshit backstory, almost as retarded as GOT's Unsullied.

>>85667718
Weed out the weak.

>>85666435
Ross sent two Hulks.

>>85667718
>That's a retarded line. Why would you kill dozens of recruits presumably after already training them a bunch?
Because you don't need 100 assassins. You just need one good one. Quality over quantity. Every Special Forces intentionally prune their numbers severely, it's just that most do it non-lethally. Covert operative candidates are not like high-school diplomas, you don't need most of them to pass.

>>85667029
The telekinesis more likely. Wanda is so wrapped up in her own anxieties I doubt she goes anywhere near other people's.

Her team-mates are protective of her and yet also afraid of Wanda.

Vision addresses this when he says
"Wanda, no one dislikes you."

>>85663797
I do like the Marvel movies, but I've watched the DC movies, MoS and BvS, a lot more.

>>85663575
>e wants to lead his team of super powered people without any goberment in the world having a say.
That's not what Cap said at all. He seems like he's willing to address the fallouts and casualties he's left behind but he's not at all on-board with the idea of being under someone else's control, especially if they can force him into something he doesn't want to. He doesn't say "I don't wanna be controlled", he says he doesn't believe that the Accords is for him to sign, that he doesn't think it's right. And yet, he was willing to compromise.

File: miles saw aunt mays gilf sex tape.jpg (26KB, 132x119px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 132x119px

>>85659704
Just like there are tons of shithead humans. Take Milwaukee for example. Black cop shoots and kill black man that committed a crime and shot a black cop in order to escape. Black cop fires back and killed black man. Local BLM retards than blames the white man and attempts to instigate more violent by tearing down their own neighborhoods and businesses.

File: dead man's grin.png (76KB, 198x198px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 198x198px

>>85666349
>Zemo couldn't commit suicide like he wanted
>Black Panther stopped Zemo from committing suicide
>Zemo won guys!!!

>>85666817
>in some low scale attack in Africa
That was actually a mission to track and find the known fugitive terrorist mercenary Crossbones, not "some low scale attack."
>but didn't arrive in London when the Elves attacked
Travel does take time. They may have been too far away and unable to scramble together, but then the problem solved itself.

Hell, that would make a funny short. Everyone starts gearing up for each catastrophe as a single Avenger involved fixes it personally. Everyone else is stuck in the hangar/the jet coming home, full costume, twiddling their thumbs and nursing their heroic blueballs.

>>85668887
He was pretending to kill himself so T'Challa wouldn't kill him. Pussy played right into his hands.

I like that there's still active discussion on whether Cap or Tony were in the right.
Even when the film was first released people would criticize it, saying one side was obviously in the right. But they could never seem to agree on which side that was.

>>85670491
>I like that there's still active discussion on whether Cap or Tony were in the right.
Tony thinks Cap is right, so I don't even know what is there to discuss. The only thing they were disagreeing was that Tony want to deceive the Accords by pretending to follow it, while Steve wanted to fight the Accords publicly.

File: 1440806934613.png (577KB, 1372x767px) Image search: [Google]

577KB, 1372x767px

>>85666381
Except that isn't remotely true, you brain dead moron.

>>85667029
The writers themselves said in an interview she's definitely an adult but the team still treats her like a kid because they're kind of infantilizing, even if they mean well.

>>85667553
Nope, no mention of that.
>>85667507
Zola says she's born in 1984 and there's no in-universe reason to believe that's not the case.

It's not impossible that she's ageless like the comics version, but there was an interview with Markus and McFeely where they said they felt that aspect of her backstory and being Bucky's former flame still being in the movies causes more continuity problems than it's worth.

Also meaning if they do Bucky/Natasha in the movies it would not be a rekindled relationship like the comics. I like to think that if they did know each other aside from him trying to kill her twice that he was a father figure for her while she was in the Red Room. Civil War made him seem like he had slightly more autonomy than Winter Soldier did, even if was more like he had the rights of a dog instead of a pure robot.

>>85663797
>Thing about Marvel films is I completely forget about the plot and what happens like 2 days after leaving the cinema.

I'm sorry. Alzheimer's is a terrible thing to happen to anyone.

That said, I'm still going to call you a faggot because you won't remember it by the time you remember where the Reply button is.

>>85670883
Its interesting that Clint seems to be the one who encourages her to stand on her own two feet.

>>85658711
>you can tell that the plots are written around the big action scenes.

Yeah, it's like they're based on comic books.

>>85671395
>Its interesting that Clint seems to be the one who encourages her to stand on her own two feet.
He is the Team Dad, and the sane man. Of all the Avengers he is the only one who knows how to deal with children.

>>85660525
Correct, shes a pragmatic realist. Cap is an idealist and would never act like her, but if were honest the one person an idealist needs backing him up is someone who can take the actions that are hard to stomach.

>>85659776

>>people don't realize that Stark is wrong by default and lets his feelings and bad state of mind in control, as he contradicts himself in IM2 (government control) and AoU (mind control)

It's called character development. Tony got PTSD from a hole in space, he overcome the fact that he is Iron Man as a weapon, and is now "The Mechanic" and helps with world security, thus creating Ultron. By doing so, he fucked up. he's very afraid of his own inventions and ability to fuck up.


He didn't contradict himself tho. In IM2 the government wanted his suits, and he said "I am Iron Man, the suit and I are one". And now the government want Tony Stark, the mechanic.
He also doesn't have a choice. Unlike Steve, he's a public figure, and going against the accords was instant jail. He specifically says that he has to agree to work around the terms later on. That's the civilized choice. The right choice.

>>85660082

Sir, Zemo had Zola's files, not Zola's algorithm. That means he knows about the Winter Soldier program, which was a HYDRA and SHIELD secret, and orchestrates his plan on that. there's nothing about predicting people's actions in the movie.

>>85671919
Good points.

>>85666317

>Action scenes
>Characters sitting in a room talking
>Characters traveling from one place to the other, usually to fight

Can you be more specific? I mean, that describes every movie ever.

>>85667507
>I don't think her age is mentioned.

According to The Winter Soldier, she was born in 1984.

>>85671986
He may have used aspects of the algorithm here and there in conjunction with other data, but not wholly.

An interesting question is whether he is descended from Sokovian royalty or such, as theorized on a thread a while back.

>>85671919
The least bad option, really. There are no easy options for any of the Avengers.

>>85667449

She said Russia, not URSS.

Maybe Russia's got a SHIELD of their own, and she's an agent.

>>85671087
>there was an interview with Markus and McFeely where they said they felt that aspect of her backstory and being Bucky's former flame still being in the movies causes more continuity problems than it's worth.

I can understand the thing about her and Bucky being a thing, but fuck, man, making Widow too young to be a proper Cold Warrior kind of misses the point of the character. After 1991 she wouldn't even have been defecting from the KGB, even.

>>85672287
>>85672001
Quoted here.

Those are good points, but only because Steve was agreeing to being a criminal, instead of explaining the situation to someone. If he had warned the Avengers and the Goverment about Zemo the second he knew about him from Bucky, all would be fine. The plot only went the way it went because Cap was selfish.

Ideologically, this discussion is older than society. Freedom vs Order and Security. We can't have 100% both, so we balnce it out the best way we can. So the movie doesn't even have a right side to begin with in that sense. It's up to specific events, where being free or being organized and accouted fit best. But there are mature ways to discuss it, and Cap's way. Cap wasn't wrong, he was just immature and stuborn. Civil War was Steve's fuck up to Tony's Ultron.

Is the movie out in good quality?

I can only find shitty cam rips.

>>85667834
>You just need one good one

Noooooooo, you need multiple good ones in case the only good one gets killed.

>>85660219
>just a program that turned an input dataset into an output
>literally a turing machine
>literally pretty much every fucking computer program ever

>>85672751
Was a good one a few weeks after it came out. BDs coming out next month so you only have to hold out another week or so.

>>85663575
>Moron who can barely type english doesn't get the point

>>85672597
>If he had warned the Avengers and the Goverment about Zemo the second he knew about him from Bucky, all would be fin

Cap tells Stark this and Stark tells Ross, And Ross ignores him.

The Government did not care.

>>85673214
>Noooooooo, you need multiple good ones in case the only good one gets killed.
If the only good one got killed, then all the other ones that are inferior would have faired no better. There are endless numbers of orphans, you don't need to worry about conserving their numbers.

>>85673463

Yes, but he tells him too late. Stark goes and helps him on his own because Steve was already going there.

If Steve told the goverment himself, it would be different.

>>85658534
it's almost like she's a nuanced and morally grey character who isn't afraid to live between the lines

like she's a trained expert spy or something who doesn't reveal her motives or allegiances to anyone but those who have earned her respect

oh, wait

File: hqdefault[1].jpg (14KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 480x360px

>>85660593
There ya go.

>>85663837
please tell me there are more of these

>Natasha studied Cap’s expression of resolve. Finally, she said, “In Russia, in the Red Room, there were dozens of us. All girls, all young. We lived together. They let us be friends. Then they dropped us in the tundra, two weeks’ walk from home, with just enough supplies for one of us to survive.”

This seems like an enormous waste of good potential agents.

>>85673318
There's an audio recording of the entire movie on Soundcloud complete with audience reactions.

>>85660525
>It's just that Steve Rogers refuse to sign anything he doesn't believe in.
Wasn't he about to sign the contract and only stopped when he heard about the whereabouts of Scarlet Witch?

>>85663797
>Thing about Marvel films is I completely forget about the plot and what happens like 2 days after leaving the cinema.

You should get that checked

>>85675473
>Wasn't he about to sign the contract and only stopped when he heard about the whereabouts of Scarlet Witch?
Yes. When he realised that they crossed the line he wasn't willing to cross.

>>85675418
It is, but what Nat is talking about is the coldness of the world, and how if the team is separated, the world will become colder and harsher for them.

Underneath Natasha's pragmatic, clinical exterior is a woman who does genuinely care about the team that is the only family she has ever known.

>>85658450
It's from the novelization, not sure how canonical that stuff would be.

>>85675549

Novelizations are almost always based on earlier drafts of a film's script to give the author time to write it. It's why they usually have material from deleted or never-filmed scenes.

>>85673478

Is still a bullshit training, who is to say that some of the girls that died could have end up being as good as widow?

They are giving them no chance of surviving! that's just fucking dumb!

>>85674109
she is a boring no character, fuck off.

So not entirely topical but this is the next best thing, Infinity War is being shot back-to-back with whatever the other film is right? Do we know exactly which one(s) Stan will be in or just that he's going to be there? Because it'll be interesting if he's only in the second movie because he's not cured by that time and they just decide to let him out to turn his WS programming on like when Banner Hulked out in Avengers.

>>85675775
Russo's have pretty much confirmed WS will be in Infinity War, I think.

Black Panther leads into Infinity War so there's a likelihood of Bucky being a factor, especially given a big part of BP movie will likely be T'challa's enemies within Wakanda plotting against him.

File: ChrisEvansBlockLaugh.gif (3MB, 800x352px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 800x352px

>>85675356

>>85663837
My sides may never return.

>>85675775
Either way he probably will have short hair going by the fact that Sebastian Stan usually starts growing his hair out long beforehand which will be interesting. Though that might just be because he's busy filming other stuff like the article mentioned so they might just give him a wig even though he says he prefers doing it au naturel.

>>85667573
>I don't believe her age has ever been mentioned?

Zola states outright in TWS that she was born in 1984.

File: Richard Madden squinting in a baseball cap.jpg (194KB, 750x1065px) Image search: [Google]

194KB, 750x1065px

>>85676100
God I hope so, I like the short hair and stubble look.

>>85673478
Even the very best fighters in the world have a tough time going solo against three or more competent people at the same time.

It's basically the most idiotic thing in movies that the protagonists can beat up hordes of even low level scrubs without using tons of strategy, traps, and back up.

>>85675753
>Is still a bullshit training, who is to say that some of the girls that died could have end up being as good as widow?
It's just the opposite of No Child Left Behind. The idea being that they only wanted one graduate max, but that they rather lose all the candidates than to lower their standards. You are assuming that the people in charge value the lives of the children, when clearly they don't actually spend that much per trainee.

>muh red room
>muh secret soviet kiddy bootcamp
>muh childhood sux :^((
Good. Everything about Black Widow's backstory is shit.

anyone got the page where captain america hails hydra? can only find shitty edited memes and the single image, need the whole page. sorry for posting a request

>>85676156

Perhaps it's a false age. She is a spy after all.

File: blackwidow_hero.png (165KB, 417x816px) Image search: [Google]

165KB, 417x816px

>>85677522
>Perhaps it's a false age.

Nope. Hydra/Project Insight had access to pretty much every record that was worth knowing. Zola laid the foundations for Project Insight and probably had access to all Sheild/Hydra records. They knew everything about her. Pierce actually brought that up when she was about to leak everything on the internet. When she did that, she made every secret she had public access.

Face it, anon. MCU Black Widow is 32 years old.

How much of a stretch would it have been to make Zemo a baron?

>>85677791

Hard to tell. As far as we know of his background, he was Sokovian black ops. That alone didn't rule out any kind of potential aristocratic background. And really nothing does. It's just that at this point it doesn't really matter since all that's left of Sokovia is a big fucking crater. So yeah, maybe his is a Baron. But at this point, he'd be a Baron of nothing now.

It could be kinda cool if that castle Strucker was using for his base originally belonged to Zemo's family.

Reportedly there's roughly 12 minutes of deleted content.

>A brief conversation between Captain America and Black Panther as they're being escorted to the Berlin operations center.

>A brief conversation between Black Widow and Black Panther at the Berlin operations center.

>Several brief moments between Captain America and Bucky throughout the movie, particularly on the Quinjet flight to Siberia and their infiltration on the abandoned HYDRA outpost.

And an extended version of the airport battle, including

>Longer Captain America VS. Black Panther, with Black Panther tearing Captain America's shield away.

>Longer Ant-Man VS, Black Widow, with Black Widow gaining the upper hand in their fight.

>Black Widow ambushing Captain America atop a rig after Ant-Man blows up the tanker truck. She steals his shield and attempts to wrestle him into submission. Captain America asks if she brought her gear along and when she confirms she did, he throws her off the rig, and she grapples to safety. They exchange looks before Captain America retrieves his shield and leaves to rendzevous with his team.

>War Machine grabbing the shield as it is rolling away, only to be intercepted by Bucky, who retrieves it and throws it at War Machine's chest, knocking him back. Falcon then swoops in, grabs the shield and returns it to Captain America.

>Black Widow climbing a tipped bus and watching explosions envelop the airport, realizing that the battle is escalating beyond their control.

>In early drafts, Hawkeye is part of the New Avengers and is present when Bucky is captured in Bucharest and transported to Berlin. He attempts to reach out to Bucky due to his experience with being brainwashed, but Bucky lies about not remembering the people he's killed.

>In early drafts, Steve Rogers and Tony Stark have more debates about the Accords, with Stark accusing Rogers of hypocrisy, presenting himself as a symbol of the United States but refusing to subscribe to its demands, and Rogers pointing out the hypocrisy of Stark's anti-establishment behavior before the guilt for creating Ultron consumed him.

>Pepper Potts appearing. Scrapped because Gwyneth Paltrow's contract had expired and had to be renegotiated.

>Nick Fury appearing. Scrapped because he's like a father to the Avengers and would bring unwanted stability to the conflict.

>Bruce Banner appearing in an after-credits scene revealing his whereabouts after AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON. Scrapped due to THOR: RAGNAROK.

>Extended sequence of Ant-Man's life in San Francisco that was written before ANT-MAN was released and cut when it didn't fit with what the movie had established.

>Early into production, Ant-Man was included on Iron Man's team before the writers learned of the character's feud with Tony Stark.

>The Wasp being included on Captain America's team. Scrapped as it was preferable she was introduced and developed in ANT-MAN & THE WASP.

>Captain America adding a scalemail mesh to his suit after it sustains damage during the airport battle.

>Bucky clean-shaven and with short hair, to distance himself from his appearance as the Winter Soldier.

>Zemo with his trademark purple mask and sword.

>>85678109
>In early drafts, Hawkeye is part of the New Avengers and is present when Bucky is captured in Bucharest and transported to Berlin. He attempts to reach out to Bucky due to his experience with being brainwashed, but Bucky lies about not remembering the people he's killed.

This woulda been cool to have. I know Renner is happy to get what he does, but he could've been in the movie more than he was.

>>Pepper Potts appearing. Scrapped because Gwyneth Paltrow's contract had expired and had to be renegotiated.

This would've probably been for the better. Not because I don't like Potts or Paltrow, I do like them. But having her present would've probably eased the needed dramatic tension between Tony and Steve.

>Bruce Banner appearing in an after-credits scene revealing his whereabouts after AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON. Scrapped due to THOR: RAGNAROK.

Unfortunate, but forgivable.

>The Wasp being included on Captain America's team. Scrapped as it was preferable she was introduced and developed in ANT-MAN & THE WASP.

Good decisions being good.

>>Captain America adding a scalemail mesh to his suit after it sustains damage during the airport battle.

Dodged a bullet there. That scalemail design from the comics is fucking terrible.

>Bucky clean-shaven and with short hair, to distance himself from his appearance as the Winter Soldier.

Better they didn't do that. Yeah, he's not quite the Winter Soldier, but he ain't exactly the old Bucky either.

>>85666482
Son, that is the dumbest thing I've read so far today, especially considering that BvS was literally written around the Batman vs. Superman fight.

Here's a protip: the DCEU movies have so many extra scenes filmed because they're rushing to establish the universe instead of just letting things develop naturally.

>>85677988
They could just have mentioned it as it would change nothing.

>>85678693
>They could just have mentioned it as it would change nothing.

Maybe that's why they didn't?

>>85658534

She was the one trying to make things work out well after the point of irreconcilable differences, because the team breaking up was the worst thing that could happen to her. But at the end of the day, Steve gets her in the divorce,

>>85658534
Its almost like 80% of the cast was not explored and sometimes they even contradict their actual characters because guess what? It was a SHIT MOVIE WITH A SPIDER-MAN CAMEO.

Its just now after the hype died people realize the stupid role of Vision, Wanda, BW, Ant-man

File: Civil_War_Stills01.jpg (1MB, 2153x898px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2153x898px

>>85681270
>the stupid role of Vision, Wanda, BW, Ant-man

I don't see how their rolls were stupid. It set up Vision and Wanda's character arcs for the rest of phase 3, Romanoff was always torn between the two factions because she sees sense in siding with the Accords and taking orders but trusts Steve's judgment, and Scott did what he did because Captain fucking America asked to help him save the world.

>>85671919
great post, this is why i love /co/

>>85678109
>The Wasp being included on Captain America's team. Scrapped as it was preferable she was introduced and developed in ANT-MAN & THE WASP.
Yeah I'm glad they didn't, she'd just be redundant with Ant-Man anyway and it was already awkward enough coming up with reasons to shoehorn all the other heroes into that scene.
>Bucky clean-shaven and with short hair, to distance himself from his appearance as the Winter Soldier.
Also glad they didn't, the character's clearly still too messed up in the head and would've looked terrible anyway since he was all fat and bloated.
>Zemo with his trademark purple mask and sword.
Goddamnit they could've at least homaged that somewhere.