How would you have made it work? Reminder that it still needs

Showing Babs naked, like in the comic.

Or does this actually happen in the movie? I haven't seen it, I only want some DCAU nudity.

Make the Joker fuck with Gordon for almost the entire day, rather than just blitzing him for ~two hours.

Have Batgirl's subplot actually be fucking related to the Joker. Maybe have her and Bats hunting down Joker's remaining crew members during those two years he was in Arkham.

Also I would have brought back the animators who worked on BTAS, but that's a side issue

I would make it so the movie is about stronk womyn that gets offed by the Joker in the last 10 seconds

fin

>>84852154
It happens.
I was surprised. I figured they'd avoid it since it would detract from their bullshit "stronger character" direction

>>84852206

Nipples and all? Color me interested. I've only seen the Babsman sex scene webm.

>>84852231
It was more tasteful.
I don't remember actual nipple in the graphic novel, though

>>84852206
>stronger character direction
>she fucks Bruce and then gets emotionally attached
yeah, such a strong character

>>84852266
I said it was bullshit.

>>84852250

They show her completely nude in a page, covered with blood.

It's not anything you would fap to, but I was curious to see if the movie would be as accurate as they said and that would imply nudity in a DCAU work.

>>84852269
Oh, I thought you meant bullshit as "I can't believe they're appealing to the SJWs by making her so strong", sorry

>>84852188
Combine those first two points.

Have Batman and Batgirl hunting down trying to locate the joker while he fucks with and terrorizes Gordon from behind the scenes.

Don't make the first half hour actually ABOUT batgirl, just use it to give her the characterization she needed

Also, I hate to suggest they change the ending, but it felt so fucking stiff in the movie. I always thought the comics ending came too much out of nowhere in the comic, but it's even worse in the movie i think. They should have made Batman's laugh more joker-like or something to at least show there was SOME progression

>>84852305
Oh, I totally forgot about that ending.
Yeah, just rip it straight out of the book. Add the rain and the sirens and the headlights. It feels like they just gave up at that point

>>84852101
Original coloring.

Change animation studio to TMS Entertainment.

Beginning subplot would be Babs bonding with Batman in a protective father/daughter relationship as they work together, sans fucking.

>>84852277

>It's not anything you would fap to

you don't know me

>>84852101
I wouldn't. What TKJ needed in an animated adaptation was something a lot less bloated that instead emphasized an interesting directorial and aesthetic direction.

If you have to pad out the length, don't make it.

>>84852101
You're implying it didn't?

There's no way to give an animated film the kind of gut punch sickening feeling that the comic was able to because the action is external instead of internal, but the things and emotions the comic were conveying made it into the movie.

I also thought Barbara's story at the beginning was a perfectly adequate setup and foil to the real plot. It gives Joker's shot more effect than if it had started off just assuming you knew Batgirl and gives some nice context to Batman's attitude regarding "things getting personal"

Did people hate it?

>>84852154
They didn't show her naked in the comic...

>>84852101

1. Make the beginning show when batman captured joker and put him in arkham. As this is the definitive batman v joker story, it can even be something of a montage showing their fighting over the years. Just something that sets up batman and joker's relationship.

2. Show the scene of batman and batgirl catching the mob dude and include the parts where he tries to get into batgirl's head, but keep it only that one chase scene let bruce tell her about enemies becoming personal, no sexual tension between the two of them.

3. Run the movie per the comic, until the Gordon torture. This should be where the film extends and puts their own creativity into it. Make it last.

>>84852562
The Killing Joke works as a standalone comic because the context is already there; these characters are known entities that readers have presumably already been following.

A film isn't so easy. A film must be self-contained such that not only can the uninitiated understand what's happening, they can connect with the characters enough to feel something when they struggle/get hurt/fail/etc.

DC isn't going to release an experimental film that won't scan with a general audience.

>>84852101

I didn't mind the Batman/Babs hookup. I could understand why some people were turned off by it, but it's not like it's the first time. I thought he animation could've been better, too.

>>84852613
>I didn't mind the Batman/Babs hookup
I understand why tabloids are running with that scene, since there's literally nothing else to get outraged about, but I don't understand why anyone else would get their tits in a twist.

The opener focuses on Babs to establish empathy for when she gets paralyzed, and Babs is/was obsessed with Batman.

>>84852598

Yes they did. I'm at work right now so I can't post the exact page, but I'm hoping some Anon will be considerate enough to post it.

They show her nipples and buttocks covered in blood, and a shot of her face in pain along with Gordon shouting BARBARAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>84852602
>DC isn't going to release an experimental film that won't scan
Who said I thought it was likely? I said it's what would have done justice to the comic book.

Even if you take it as granted that the movie needs to expand on the characters (it doesn't; the graphic novel is every bit as standalone as the film) the film betrays a severe misunderstanding of the source material in its emphasis. The prologue didn't need to be nearly as long and it needed to revolve around Jim Gordon, not Barbara. The film is a misfire on nearly every level.

>>84852101
>it still needs to come to at least a 90 minute runtime
I am doomed to fuck it up by making it arbitrarily bloated?

I wonder if the first half was shown in a completely separate movie how people would react to it. You think they'd be just as pissed off?

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>>84852681
gotchu familia

>>84852718
>(it doesn't; the graphic novel is every bit as standalone as the film)
What? That's not even remotely true. The graphic novel spends absolutely no time on Barbara and her getting shot is the pivotal moment, it's supposed to be something that couldn't happen and it sets the tone for the rest of the book. If you don't or barely know who the fuck Barbara Gordon is then why would you care if some redhead bitch got shot? It loses its emotional impact.

Comics are fluid, characterization is built issue by issue and writer by writer, they can use the context established by previous issues to tell a story.

Films are standalone. They must have a setup, an introduction to the characters, scenes to establish our protagonist and why we should empathize with them. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to tell their origin story, but you need to show the audience what your characters are about before launching into such a deeply character-driven story.

>>84852777

Thanks, desualam.

>>84852718
>the film betrays a severe misunderstanding of the source material in its emphasis. The prologue didn't need to be nearly as long and it needed to revolve around Jim Gordon, not Barbara.
It might have had slightly more focus on Gordon, but I think YOU betray a severe misunderstanding of the source material. There's nothing special about Gordon in The Killing Joke except that the Joker chose him and used his daughter to that end. The whole point was that it could've been literally anyone. Any person in the city could've been on that roller coaster being driven insane and it would've proven the Joker's point.

>>84852188
The intro actually was related. Paris was supposed to be Babs own personal Joker lite and the story was about how she didn't take Batman's warnings seriously but then decided to quit when she saw how people like that can make you loose control. Its just her and batman also fucked and that's all anyone can talk about.

Not trying to say the intro was good necessarily but you know it wasn't about her fucking batman if anything fucking batman was incidental.

>>84852777
meh, just an ass. I don't even consider that nudity.

They should've adapted some Joker vs Batman shorts from silver age for the first half or made a mockumentary with interviews of Gotham citizens or politicians about their encounters with Batman or Joker, or opinion on their rivalry.

>>84852947
They had a nipple in the black and white version. I don't have the scan though.

>>84852947

What exactly did you have in mind?

>>84852964

Both of her nipples are right there in the middle frame.

She's not busty.

>>84852931
I doubt most people complaining even watched the movie

Babs might've killed the guy if not for Batman stopping her.

>>84852799
>why would you care if some redhead bitch got shot?
The emotional and thematic impact of the graphic novel isn't what happens to Barbara--though it's shocking and a clear indication of the Joker's cruelty--it's in how this event does and doesn't affect Jim Gordon, and what Joker's entire motivations might mean for the average person, and how this plays into his relationship with Batman. The only thing the movie needed to make clear is that Barbara is Jim's daughter, they're close, and that Jim is an honest cop. The rest is fairly self-explanatory. The Joker himself explains most of it.
>Comics are fluid
Monthly series are, yes. The Killing Joke was released as a one-shot. It's always been that way. Your argument would be served better if you emphasized the difference in TKJ's audience as a comic and its audience as a movie--but even then most people know who Jim Gordon is, who Barbara Gordon is, and what their relationship entails. Even if they didn't this can be achieved with a lot more elegance than what the movie does.
>>84852826
Joker chose Gordon for a reason. But either way, my point is that the comic doesn't linger on Barbara because it doesn't need to. It's not really the driving force of the narrative. It being Gordon in particular isn't extremely thematically significant (but choosing a paragon of the straight and honest highlights the idea), but he is significant in terms of the way the actual plot is structured. And that's how the thematic ideas are presented to the audience. I don't think you're really contradicting me as much as you think you are.

>>84852983
I can see it now, but the B&W versions have more nippleshots. It's strange how curvy she is with her clothes on.

>>84852953
>waste time showing everyone what they already which will also get re-recounted in the actual plot
>killing joke proper starts
"Who was that redhead bitch who got shot?"
"Why are we hearing even more about Joker and Batman's relationship? That was the whole first half of the movie."

/co/, you're terrible at this.

>>84852777

So is this part in the movie or not? I'm an ass man.

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>>84852991
>The emotional and thematic impact of the graphic novel isn't what happens to Barbara
I didn't say it was, but it is the gut punch. The tone-setting moment where your expectations are re-arranged. If you don't establish Barbara that EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND PIVOTAL moment is pointless.
>it's in...Gordon
No. Stop. Gordon is fucking incidental. The story is NOT about Gordon in even the slightest. It's about Batman and the Joker. Gordon could be replaced with literally any character and the story would be identical. You don't understand the source material.

>The comic doesn't linger on Barbara because it doesn't need to
and my point is that the comic didn't need to BECAUSE IT IS A COMIC.

>>84852988
Yea and really, even though I don't like it, I guess it plays into the "the story is about how Joker and Bats are the same" because Barbra gets a taste of Joker lite one time and nopes the fuck out like any sane person would, Batman on the other hand has been dealing with the real deal for years. He just can't quit cause he's nuts.

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ITT people who for some reason think films work the same way as comics

>>84853013
Showing Barbara's story clearly misses the point of the story. It was about the Batman/Joker relation and loss of innocence. It was about Batman having a truce with Joker and then realising how their rivalry will never end; He'll always end up chasing the Joker. The mockumentary starts with Gordon talking about the silver age antics, then go deeper into it, then start with Batman parking his car outside Arkham to have a talk with the Joker.

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>>84853113
>showing Barbara struggling with the same feelings Batman has towards the joker misses the point of the story
>establishing the character so we have empathy for her when she gets shot is missing the point of the story
>the story is about how the rivalry will never end
You're retarded.

>>84852101
swaps jarringly to the OG coloring when the bullet hits babs

redistribute the animation budget from that point on so you have some scenes animated really well, and other scenes that almost look stopmotion

>>84853134
>Batman has the same feelings towards the Joker as Barbara has towards him.
>Having empathy for a slut.
>Not being about never ending rivalries in superhero comics.
Azzarello pls go

>>84852101
It was an amazing adaptation, DC would kill to have half a product like this in their live action movies.
the fuck are you talking about?

>Reminder that it still needs to come to at least a 90 minute runtime
bullshit it does.

>>84852305
>Batman's laugh more joker-like or something to at least show there was SOME progression
but the message i got is that the joker is right and all that batman needed was a bad day o be like he is, a negative version of the joker.
both are crazy, that's the idea.
in the comic the message was more weighted to the futility of their fight since no one will change their ways.

>>84853199
>It was an amazing adaptation
Maybe if you skip the first 30 minutes. Even then, it's at most a good adaptation.

>>84853049
Your mistake is assuming that Barbara getting shot is "EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND PIVOTAL" because of the audience's connection to Barbara. But it's not. That matters because it's part of Joker's ploy to break a man psychologically. But he fails. Gordon still tells Batman to do it "by the book." Yes, Gordon matters. Gordon in particular could be replaced with other people in Joker's point (that's the whole idea of Joker's idea: if Gordon can break anyone can), but IN THE ACTUAL STORY he matters. He is plot-relevant and thematically-relevant. Barbara is only significant insofar as she affects Gordon. And this is all a reflection on Batman's relationship with the Joker. You seem to think I'm ignoring what this means for Batman and the Joker but I'm not. In fact, in my last post, I said as much:
>and how this plays into his relationship with Batman
The 'his' being Joker's, to clarify. I'm just capable of appreciating and understanding basic parts of how a story is setup and told.
>Gordon could be replaced with literally any character
But that's wrong anyway. Having it be Gordon in particular helps highlight the thematic ideas that drive the story. In part because of Gordon's general characterization, but also because of his relationship with Batman in particular. It also helps that Gordon, like Batman, has a lot of history with the Joker.
>BECAUSE IT IS A COMIC
So what? Storytelling is storytelling.

>>84853246
>Maybe if you skip the first 30 minutes
yeah, i don't know why they added that part.
my point is that any animated DC movie is way better than the Live action, and i appreciate how they included the key images from the comics.
i didn't read the killing joke in years but for what i recall they almost did a frame by frame adaptation.

>>84853049
>If you don't establish Barbara that EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND PIVOTAL moment is pointless.
She isn't, but they could add that first half hour to set Barbara's relationship with Gordon, since that's the important part for joker's plan.
>The story is NOT about Gordon in even the slightest
newfag, please shut up.
Joker knows that batman is crazy, there is only other character that shares history with the joker and that is still sane, and that one is Gordon.
That's the whole point, to break a sane person with all the baggage that they share.
>BECAUSE IT IS A COMIC.
(you)

>>84853199
A loud subsection of nerds are upset that Babs got a side story I guess. It was a perfectly fine setup that did what needed to be done before the story proper could start.

>>84853231
>the message I got is that the joker is right
Jesus Christ, anon, try fucking harder.
>>84853183
>not being about never ending rivalries
It's not. The thematic thrust is more about being driven to insanity and how both Joker and Batman are insane in different ways.

Batman laughs at the end because the joke illustrates the disconnect and absurdity of his offer to rehabilitate Joker. Batman thinks the Joker can reach "freedom" by walking across the gap on the beam from the flashlight. Joker won't risk it. And the kicker: even if they both escape, they're still crazy.

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>>84853255
>Your mistake is assuming that Barbara getting shot is "EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND PIVOTAL" because of the audience's connection to Barbara. But it's not.
Are you autistic? A robot? I was very clear that the scene is important due to it setting the tone.

If you can't understand the difference between important to the explicit plot and important to the emotional beats of the story there's no point in continuing this.

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>>84853255
>So what? Storytelling is storytelling.
>regardless of medium

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I wanted to see Dick somewhere. The first 30 minutes should have been Dick quitting them Bats takes in Babs to try and replace Dick.

This thread makes me cringe

No, idiots, you can't just remake the comic panel-for-panel as a film. Different mediums require different things.

>>84853396
It sets the tone anyway, though. You're right that having a longtime familiarity with the character helps heighten the shock of the event, but knowing about Barbara outside of the fact she's Gordon's daughter isn't really necessary for the core of the story's operation. No, not even on an emotional level. Because, again: Barbara getting shot in and of itself isn't the emphasis of TKJ. How this plays into Joker's plan and how it affects Gordon is. If you need thirty minutes of storytelling to understand the emotional impact of a young woman getting shot and the subsequent torture of her father, I think the autistic one might be you, friendo.

It's not hard to connect the dots.

>>84853375
It was about both.Batman realises that he's just as insane as the Joker and he can never rehabilitate him. It'll only lead to a game of cat and mouse going on forever.

>>84853411
A lot of the core of storytelling stays relatively static throughout media in terms of basic things like plot, characters, and themes. Which is what's being discussed here.

>>84853469
>It sets the tone anyway, though
No, her getting shot does not set the tone if you have not spent time with her before the story's opening, and in a film you cannot assume prior knowledge or emotional engagement with the characters they way you can in a comic.

>knowing about Barbara outside of the fact she's Gordon's daughter isn't really necessary for the core of the story's operation
Wow. Just fucking wow. I'm just gonna go ahead and paste my previous response:
Are you autistic? A robot? I was very clear that the scene is important due to it setting the tone.

If you can't understand the difference between important to the explicit plot and important to the emotional beats of the story there's no point in continuing this.

>If you need thirty minutes of storytelling to understand
It's not about understanding. It's not about the explicit actions of the plot. It is a pivotal emotional beat that does not work in a film without firmly establishing her character.

You need to work on your reading comprehension. Like, a lot.

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>>84853489
>A lot of the core of storytelling stays relatively static throughout media

>>84853506
>It's okay to start with the climax, then go through all the buildup
No. No it is not. Ever.

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>>84853532
Context blindness is one of the surest signs of autism.

Get some cognitive therapy

>>84853099
Get your clues away from me!

I think the problem with the film is that its two separate tv episodes instead of one actual movie.

>>84853506
In terms of structure? Yeah. A lot of it does. There's a difference between underyling structure and the way this structure is conveyed to the audience, though. I'm not arguing for a panel-by-panel recreation of TKJ in animated form.
>>84853496
>No, her getting shot does not set the tone
Whatever you say.
>I was very clear that the scene is important due to it setting the tone
And I'm saying the tone is still maintained. It's not as overtly shocking, but it's still there because the core of the story is still there. The emotional thrust is still there. What's hard to get, baby girl?
>It is a pivotal emotional beat that does not work in a film without firmly establishing her character.
But it isn't all that pivotal. That's my fucking point. Gordon's shock still conveys what the audience needs for the story to have its emotional hinge. The movie providing the audience with a bit more familiarity with Barbara (and certainly Jim) could have been a benefit, but my point is that the film could have achieved this with a lot less time and much more smoothly than it does because the graphic novel alone provides the vast majority of what the audience needs to understand and connect to the story.
>You need to work on your reading comprehension. Like, a lot.
Like totally, bb.

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>>84853667
>And I'm saying the tone is still maintained. It's not as overtly shocking
You're completely contradicting yourself.
>it's still there because the core of the story is still there
And you fail to understand the basic emotional components of a story.

We're done here.

I would have done the comic straight, nothing added, but then done shorts as epilogues - including Oracle: Year One (from The Batman Chronicles #5).

>>84852101
Instead of a prequel, they should've followed it up with Joker becoming the ambassador of Iran and having diplomatic immunity. So now Batman can't beat him up or even arrest him, so he has find some loophole to teach him a lesson.

They could have just made a short, but then they couldn't show in theaters or sell DVD's if it's only 30 minutes long.

>>84853693
It's not a contradiction. I admit that some of the shock is lessened. I'm saying that "THE PIVOTAL MOMENT" is maintained as much as it needs to be despite this.

I understand the emotional components. I just understand that emotional components come from the synergistic effects of a story's structure, and that in this case the emotional thrust remains as a result, or at least remains enough that the prologue of the movie was tedious more than enlightening or emotionally charging.

>>84853829
>I understand the emotional components
That you believe events after the moment in question can inform the emotional impact of the event itself proves that you do not.

>>84852101
Trust me all would be forgiven if Batman had killed the Joker in the end. It would justify everything

>>84852777
Flat as a bat girl

>it has to come in at 90 minutes
Apparently not, the movie was only 76 like majority of their recent animated stuff

>>84853719

>>84853855
Are you trying to be funny right now? Yes, of course they can. Many stories are structured in such a way that encourage the audience to reconsider past events. This usually entails an emotional response. That's not really my argument here, though. My argument is that Barbara getting shot in front of her father is shocking enough because the audience's connection to Barbara isn't the emotional core of the story. The tone is set just fine.

The real difference here is that you think the emotional impact of Barbara getting shot in-and-of-itself is a vital part of the story. I do not.

>>84853873
Could you imagine the audience reaction if they did that? I would have loved it but holy shit imagine the surprise

>>84852101
I would get the people who animated those Zellers commercials.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi5qoxxQpMY

>>84854060
Those are some wild mouth movements.

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>>84853995
>more text making it even clearer that you can't separate emotional beats inside the story from retrospection
>implying the emotions behind the single most memorable and re-used panels, which also happen to be the cover, and also set the tone for the entire work, are not a vital part of the story

With how short the movie was (understandably) I'm surprised with how little they had Jim Gordon interact with Batman or Barbara.

It could have been as simple as having Babs talk to her father about her relationship issues instead of 'cliche gay bestie'. Or add onto scenes like the kangaroo court where he throws the book at the Joker, only to have a Batman stand-up block him. Have the Joker go on a tirade about how 'the book' is a heap a baloney or how Jim pals around with someone who thinks he's above the law. Maybe even have Jim and Bullock sharing a quick conversation.

Other than that, I honestly loved the movie. The soundtrack was immaculate, I loved the animation, and everyone knocked it out of the park voice acting-wise.

>>84854102
Stop looking at TKJ through its reputation. Look at it as an actual story. No, the shock of Barbara Gordon getting shot isn't the crux of the story despite it being the most widely-known facet of its plot. Yes, it establishes the tone. But it does this anyway, even without detailed knowledge of the character beforehand. More of a connection heightens the shock, yes. I wouldn't call it vital though, no. You seem utterly incapable of interpreting and looking at TKJ on its own as a distinct story.

>>84854451
>Stop looking at TKJ through its reputation
lol wat
>Look at it as an actual story
lol wat
>No, the shock of Barbara Gordon getting shot isn't the crux of the story
no one said it was
>Yes, it establishes the tone
good, you're almost th-
>But it does this anyway, even without detailed knowledge of the character beforehand
That you think this is somehow about knowledge of the character is fucking baffling.

If you were to see my face right now it'd look like the flash card your therapist told you means "angry"

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>>84852101
As seen in the fan made motion comic a 1 for 1 stretch of the Killing Joke can last about 4 minutes
The side story at the start needs to relate So I say you have three strong options:
1.Batman having flash backs to his first encounter/fight with Joker. Have Babs and him taking down a crime ring mob which elements bring him in memory of how familiar it is to what happen with the Joker, have the story tie into way he goes to talk to the Joker.
2. Jokers Transformation from Bat-man's point of view. Keeping spoilers out of it let's just follow Bat-man's view of the whole mess of chasing down the crooks and ends when Joker dives in the water, have a "several years later" title card after that
3. A Bat-girl solo story that involves Joker's imprisonment before the events of the Killing joke.

Im really not sure why any of the creative team thought a Batgirl loves Batman story was what was needed for a halfhour+ before a Joker story.

>>84854647
>about 4 minutes
should read about 40 minutes

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Oracle.

Have a separate short film following it up showing Batgirl coming back from what Joker did as Oracle. Hell, it can even set up a Birds Of Prey movie.

Too bad Timm and DC themselves hate Oracle.

>>84853431
So they still have sex?

>>84852101

Cut out everything involving babs wanting to and actually fucking Bruce.

Maybe splice some more stuff in there that's actually related to the Joker so it doesn't feel like it just comes out of nowhere.

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Condense your fucking threads.
>>84852101
>>84853719
>>84843001
Use the >>>/co/catalog before making a thread. Read the existing threads. Fuck.

>>84854673
can't agree to that.
It weakens the ending to much.
Not the whole "did he kill me?" derp stuff but rather the melancholy of the whole thing. It needs to end on that killing joke.

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>>84854647
>a Batgirl loves Batman story
congrats, you either didn't watch the movie or you completely misunderstood it

Batgirl being obsessed with Batman was a tiny part of the opener.

>>84854768
Listen Timm all three have different themes and focus that they don't need to be in a general.

>>84854775
That why I said have it be separate. It would still be on the dvd or showing. Hell, you can even sjow it first.

That or just have Kilking Joke as a short film with better animation.

>>84854776
>Batgirl being obsessed with Batman was a tiny part of the opener.
>A girl throwing her life to psychopath is just a footnote in this mess

I didn't misunderstand any of it. If anything you have some nice blinders on.

>>84854776

An extremely distracting part of the opener thanks

>>84854570
>That you think this is somehow about knowledge of the character is fucking baffling.
Your entire argument is that a prologue with Barbara is necessary for the film because the audience's connection to Barbara is what makes Barbara getting shot such a pivotal moment. But that's not really the case, or at least it depends on extranarrative circumstances irrelevant to looking at TKJ as an individual work. With or without a prologue her getting shot establishes the tone just fine, and no prologue is necessary for connecting to and interpreting the rest of the story. Barbara isn't what the story is about. The audience doesn't need to be particularly familiar with or connected to Barbara. If there's a character--aside from Batman and the Joker themselves--that the audience would benefit from a connection to, it's Jim Gordon. But the story didn't really need a prologue of any kind because almost everything is easily inferred.

Take a break from /co/ and poorly-directed animated adaptations. Take a literature course. Do it for me. Do it for /co/.

>>84854845
>extremely distracting
It's about 3 seconds long.

>>84854842
>I didn't misunderstand any of it
Since you don't seem to get that the whole thing was a mirror of Batman's relationship with Joker you clearly did.

>>84854875
You're conflating empathic connection and knowledge. Which I should've expected as you are clearly autistic. I don't mean that in a mean way, I mean it clinically.

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>>84854776
>Batgirl being obsessed with Batman was a tiny part of the opener.
That's like saying a girl abusing herself for her boyfriend's attention is only a small problem.

>>84853450
>cringe
Grow up.

Did anyone else get a hard-on when they showed Bab's feet?

>>84854875
>With or without a prologue her getting shot establishes the tone just fine
In reading this thread you've said this in pretty much every post and you've never bothered to back it up. How on god's green earth you can't comprehend the difference in tone between an established protagonist getting shot and an ancillary character that was just introduced getting shot would be incredible if it weren't obvious that you aren't neurotypical.

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>>84854937
>It's about 3 seconds long.
>sex is all there is to love and obsession
you ready for middle school to start back up kiddo?

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>>84854875
>talking about the film adaptation of a piece of sequential art
>"take a literature course"

>>84855046
>>84854949
Her attraction to Batman takes up maybe 5 minutes of her story. It isn't the focus of it by any stretch of the imagination.

>>84855087
It's the driving force for the whole story arc

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>>84855062
>showing you are so ignorant of college that you don't understand there are literature courses such as Introduction to Film Analysis, Film theory and Interpretation, and Film and Film vs literature.

work on your bait retard.

>>84855109
>it's the driving force for the whole story arc
lol wat

The driving force of the arc is her relationship with Franz. Her relationship with Batman is there because it pushes her over the edge in the final scene where she nearly kills Franz.

How do people not get this?

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>>84855206
There's that context-blindness again

>>84855289
>Her relationship with Batman is there because it pushes her over the edge
>a reason a girl almost fucks up is over how she feels about an old exotic rich man

If you pull the love interest out of the narrative, the narrative can no longer work. Hence it makes it the driving force, the need plot narrative to tell your story.
How do you not get it?

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>>84855404
>If you pull the love interest out of the narrative, the narrative can no longer work
What? It absolutely can. Batman getting hurt is one small part of the emotional cocktail that leads to her nearly killing Franz.

>>84855505
>one small part of the emotional cocktail
name the other parts

>>84855628
Barbara's addiction to the excitement of crime fighting and combat.

Barbara's hatred and revulsion towards Franz on an intensely personal level

Her increasing isolation and frustration with her repeated failures forcing her to be distanced from the case.

Her feelings towards Batman and her seeing him in danger were one part of the story, not the main focus. In terms of runtime her discussing her feelings towards Batman and the scene itself are maybe 1/10 of the whole opener.

>>84855757
>In terms of runtime her discussing her feelings towards Batman and the scene itself are maybe 1/10 of the whole opener.
you are looking at this as a time issue
by you logic Babs getting crippled is only 1/10th of the KJ.
The actions of the romance there kill your other points because the whole set up can now be seen as she wants to be just like the man she lust over.

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>>84855825

>>84852101
The official movie was 76 minutes tho

>>84855886
I see you have run out of any real substance to counter the claim and much like a emotionally unstable high school girl must throw random pictures at me like it has any impact.

What ever that ploy was suppose to do was ruined and blind sided by that subplot and I argue that removing it would still lead to a very boring plot only showing how much Timm and company built Babs getting fuck by Bruce as the keystone to the opening tale.

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When Babs tries to kiss Bruce, he pushes her away saying "No, I can't do this. Your father" then Babs would call Bruce a faggot thinking he was actually gay for her dad in which Bruce would go along with it.

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>>84852777
>>84853914

Pretty much the correct size for Burnside Babs

>>84852101
The first 20 minutes is Superman and Batman having adventures. Superman tells Batman to call him if he ever needs help, Batman scoffs and says that he can handle himself. He feels regret in the end for not taking Superman up on his offer.

>>84854673
YES! Just do The Killing Joke without elaboration, then do Oracle Year One or something. It doesn't affect the end - because you don't have to watch it right away, but it's part of the story, and makes it mean more than just "hehe Batman is the Joker hehe."

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>>84852101
>walked into the movie theatre
>fucking concession stand with Suicide Squad merchandise
>sit down
>trailers for Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman
>ohfuckme.jpg
>introduction to the film by Mark Hamill
>nothing from Kevin Conroy
>nicebutcould'vebeenbetter.gif
>film starts
>literally an entire standalone batgirl story fucking stapled onto the front of the film
> I DID NOT PAY FOR THIS
>decent animation but a few re-used panels and shots
>laugh my ass off at the Jack Nicholson easter egg they sneaked in
>nobody else in the theatre laughed
>I'msurroundedbycasuals.pdf
>film ends
>mini documentary about 20 minutes long that talks about the music of the film
>prettycool.webm

So, yeah.
Mixed feelings.

>>84853431
>i was the best partner he ever had
I lol'd so hard at that

>>84852101
75 min to cover 90 on TV with commercials.

>>84852188
>Also I would have brought back the animators who worked on BTAS
They had multiple studios work on BTAS.