Batman v Superman Ultimate Edition Scenes

Good stuff.

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>512 replies and 36 images omitted. Click here to view.

Bump for people who want to see some of the scenes before WB takes them down.

>>83796353
>all this Superman material
Clark got beyond shafted in this movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn-tI7gefI0
>this got cut
>in favor of a shot where Batman walks across a room with a sink

>More Clark being a journalist

YES THANK YOU JESUS

>Superman scene after the bombing

Are you fucking kidding me?

How the fuck did they cut that scene????

Jesus, just that alone is such an improvement.

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>>83796790
Well. Batman is cooler and extreme and edgy.

Superfag is just boring talk. Who the hell want's to see that? Pfff grown men in costumes talking! I mean: Come on. It's ridiculous.

OP here, the Youtube user just added two more videos so it looks like he's still in the process of uploading the scenes. Personally, I watched a few and I'm really happy with them. I'm not going to watch the rest to keep myself fresh until it comes out officially. Anyone interested in me reposting the list of updated scenes?

>Most convoluted movie of the year
>"b-b-but it will make sense once they add MORE material!! You guys just wait and see!!"

>>83796790
That's because people already know that Superman is a good guy, we don't need to be reminded.

>>83796959
except Snyder said multiple times that Superman is his favourite superhero

even before working on MoS but sure go on
painting him as literal jesus and Batman as the villain of the movie is not enough

>>83797005
>Uploading scenes to youtube instead of just uploading the full movie to a torrent site
Worst leakers since Pokémon XY

Unless this new edition comes with an entirely different third act, it's still going to be a bad movie.

And maybe the team could have written a movie that wouldn't take three hours to tell. Though heaven forbid we ever introduce the concept of editing to true capekino, clearly Snyder needs 17 hours to tell his true artistic vision of two people being very mad at each other for vague reasons.

>>83797025
Africa and the senate bombing/meeting is actually completely redefined in the UC though.

>>83796959
If anything, this Ultimate Cut shows Snyder does love the character and you can far better see what kind of story he was trying to tell.

Blame the suits.

>>83797114
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/09/08/rumor-warner-bros-wants-more-batman-less-superman-in-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice

>>83797025
>"b-b-but it will make sense once they add MORE material!!
It does.
:^)

>>83797183
There's no doubt this was true now.

Zack made a Superman movie featuring Batman.

Suits told him to fuck off, and rebalance it the other way.

Why was Superman helping people at the senate not in the original release

>>83797276
only a retard would think he didn't help people after he was shown helping people around the world all the time

>>83797276

>this movie

>showing the Man of Feel doing anything but looking sad

OP here, posting the deleted scene list initially collected here: http://dicapriyos.tumblr.com/post/145858657724/batman-v-superman

>Bruce saves more than one kid at the Black Zero event. He’s the BatDad we deserve.
>More violence shown in the village. More dialogue from the African man Lois was interviewing.
>The KGBeast burns the bodies of the men he shot to frame Superman for the killing. An actress hired by Lex confirms that Superman was the one who did it.
>Jimmy Olsen say “I’m Jimmy Olsen”. Him and Lois’ first exchange is funny.
>The CIA attempts to bomb the village with Lois still held captive. Clark intervenes.
>Insignificant: When Clark first starts his investigation in Gotham, there’s male couple kissing in the background on the ferry.
>Clark goes investigating in Gotham, he’s supposed to be there to write his article on the football game, but instead goes to interview the actress Lex hired. She’s not there, but his investigation in The Batman begins here.
>We see 2 different opinions on Batman. A woman claims the only reason to be frightened of Batman is if you have a reason to be. A man says implies that Batman has changed, now everyone should be afraid. “He’s angry and he’s hunting.”
>More Clark/Lois interaction. He’s worried about her investigation into the bullet. He says it’s too dangerous. She says that’s why she didn’t tell him about it.
>Lex has more of a background presence. Clark is assigned to the library benefit because ‘someone requested Clark Kent cover the event’. So clearly Lex already knows who he is from the beginning. Meaning he wanted Clark and Bruce to meet.
>Insignificant: Perry calls Clark a nerd.

>>83797374
>More Lex dialog with Finch. “Maybe if I keep everything the same Dad will come back.” He talks about his Dad almost as if he’s not dead.
>There’s a quick Bruce Wayne shower scene. Yes, we see Ben’s ass. Yes, it looks good.
>Clark calls his mom after the watching the Senator Finch interview. He asks why his dad never left Kansas and ask why can’t life be more simple. Martha responds nothing was ever simple.
>We see Lex pulling the strings more and more. He has the man Batman branded kill while in prison. Then he has the pics sent to Clark.
>There’s a new scene with Jon Stewart roasting Superman.
>Jena Malone plays an unmade forensic scientist.
>Extended scene with Diana she’s talking with a Curator about the sword on display.
>The Knightmare scene is longer. We see all the trucks arriving at the compound Batman is at. There’s a longer shot of Batman walking to the truck. Also an extended scene of Batman fighting the Superman soldiers.
>There’s a scene with Clark trying to find out what happened to the man who was killed. He talks with his girlfriend outside of the GCPD. She tells him words won’t stop Batman, only fists.
>Longer moment between Clark and his mom, she’s giving him advice.
>The actress Lex hired sees the KGBeast waiting outside her apartment as she gets off the bus. She stays on the bus.
>She goes to see Senator Finch to tell her the truth before the senate meeting. The pieces of the African plot line start slowing falling into place.
>Lois realizes the entire thing was a setup. She tells Perry to run the story. Lex set the whole thing up, it was an ambush for Superman.

>>83797406
>Senator knows everything. Lex threatened and coerced that actress into lying about Superman. She realizes Lex has been using the senate, playing them like puppets.
>The KGBeast pushes the african actress in front of a subway car to silence her.
>When Finch says “Today is a day for truth.” she was talking about Lex setting up Superman. That’s when she sees ‘granny’s peach tea’. In the context of the UE at that moment she realizes she’s been played when she sees Lex’s empty seat.
>After the senate explosion, victims are being treated on the steps outside. Superman is flying victims out of the wreckage. He’s helping. He’s saving people. He sees all the damaged caused, of the dead bodies and blames himself. He locks eyes with Lois, and flies away. (Ok so I legit teared up bye)
>There’s a scene with Alfred chopping wood. Out side the Wayne residence. He goes inside looking for Bruce and sees what happened at the senate meeting. The returned checks from Wallace sit on a coffee table. He seems to realize that Bruce is about to do something reckless. He turns to face the lake, worried.
>We see Lex watch footage of Batman breaking into Lexcorp to steal the Kryptonite. He smirks. All according to plan.
>Longer montage of Bruce weaponizing the Kryptonite and a little bit longer of him working out. (God…)
>We see people blaming Superman for the attack on the capital. News outlets are saying if he’s so powerful, why couldn’t he stop a bomber a few feet away from him? There’s a protest where they hang and burn a Superman doll in frustration.
>Longer scene of Clark in the mountains. He walks by a group of men by the base of the mountain. As he walks by they say “He knows the mountain is not passable. He’s come to die.”

>>83797423
>Lois is watching the news. Lex apparently planted bomb materials for investigators to find in Wallace’s apartment. Superman has not been ruled out as a co-conspirator. We cut to Lex on the helipad as the news channel still talks about evidence pointing to Superman being involved. He smirks.
>Lois goes to Wallace’s apartment. It’s completely changed from the scene where we see Lex give him the wheel chair. Anti-Superman graffiti everywhere. Bomb making material on the desk. Lois realizes that Wallace had just bought groceries. She conclude he didn’t know he was going to die that day.
>She calls Jena Malone’s character again. That bullet from the desert? Wallace’s new wheel chair? Both made from the same metal. The same metal Lexcorp manufactures. Also the wheelchair was lined with lead. So even if Clark checked, he wouldn’t have known it was a bomb.
>We see the full Lois kidnapping scene. (Her being dragged out to a truck)
>After the BvS fight, Alfred tells Bruce where Martha Kent is. Bruce says “I don’t deserve you Alfred.” “No, you don’t.” is Alfred’s response.
>When Clark goes to confront Lex he says “You lose.” Lex says “I don’t know how to lose.” Clark says “You’ll learn.” Lex mockingly says “I’ll learn! I don’t hate the sinner, I hate the sin. And yours, my friend, is existing.” So basically this whole scene is like 2 minutes longer.
>There’s a scene of Martha getting rescued by the GCPD after Batman saves her from the warehouse.

>>83797306
By that logic why even show Batman and Superman fighting when only a retard would think they'd actually fight to the death? Just because "oh it'd make sense for him to do that" doesn't mean you don't fucking show it, it'd be like if someone in the movie calls Lex sneaky and manipulative and then the next scene he just has Zod's body without showing him getting it.

Why the fuck would you just leave out a superhero saving people in a superhero movie?

>>83797025
Some of the added scenes do seem to help smooth out the pacing of the film and do make some plot points clearer. However, it doesn't change some of my major complaints about the film/the way certain characters are handled.

>>83797451
because the saving people part was already established in previous scenes, showing it again would have been redundant

>>83797448

>That bullet from the desert? Wallace’s new wheel chair? Both made from the same metal. The same metal Lexcorp manufactures.

That's one of the dumbest things I've heard all year.

Why would Lex make them out of the same...what? Isn't this the Lex that somehow spent 18 months planning an elaborate shell game of bullshit against the leads because of how smart he is?

The entire Lois/bullet storyline is still garbage in any cut. Snyder could have sliced that out entirely, then maybe the movie could have been 2.5 hours from the start.

>>83797527
Random acts of good are different from helping clean up a mess that's partially your fault. There is no excuse to cut out a scene of a superhero saving people in a superhero movie. With how they did it in the original release it was basically "Huh, the senate blew up, fucking whoops" and then after Bruce opens his letter from Lex that whole thing stops being relevant at all.

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Fuck.
Now I wish they just shaft the entire Doomsday fight and add all these character moments.

The scene does so much.

- Shows Superman caring for others
- Shows that responders unease at Superman's presence
- Shows Superman's heart breaking at not being able to have done anything as he sees the dead bodies

It's a really meaningful scene. It's insane that it was cut.

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>>83797712

They could literally cut Doomsday out entirely.

Lex Luthor in a green mech suit would genuinely be better then Doomsday. At least that would mean the heroes would be fighting the villain of the movie, not a mindless ogre with no character, no goals and no set abilities.

I cared more about Batman taking down KGBeast then the entire Doomsday fight. At least with him they set up the antagonist, had him interact with the hero beforehand, established his competency, and set up a reasonable scenario in which they would fight. And he was a mook with five lines of dialogue, but there was the basic storytelling blocks there to make me care about them fighting.

And then they didn't even fight, because not only did Snyder fuck up the drama he couldn't make the action compelling either.

>>83797374

I originally called bullshit on this (mostly because I felt how they were playing the set-up involving Supes' intervention in Africa seemed to run counter to what we heard in interviews and whatnot), but now it looks like it was true after all.

>>83797058
Problem isn't Snyder being a fan, he might be the biggest superfag on earth but the issues come from his perspective of the character. Like a kid who sees Batman as nothing more than a edgy, solitary and depressive guy. He's still a fan but it he ever made a comic, movie, fanfic whatever the result would be an abortion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKrBCqShF9U
Batdad

The fact these scenes are better than most of the stuff left in the actual movie makes me angry enough to avoid the ultimate collection all together.

Fuck this shell game bullshit.

>>83797799
>I cared more about Batman taking down KGBeast then the entire Doomsday fight. At least with him they set up the antagonist, had him interact with the hero beforehand, established his competency, and set up a reasonable scenario in which they would fight. And he was a mook with five lines of dialogue, but there was the basic storytelling blocks there to make me care about them fighting.

Wait, that was KGBeast? I did not know that.

>>83798078

Yeah, The main mook that Batman blew up at the end was KGBeast.

>You'll learn

>>83798104
Was his name mentioned or something? I only saw the film one time and that was many months ago so it's hard to remember the little details.

>"I don't deserve you, Alfred"
;_;

>>83798204

His name is mentioned when Bruce is on the Batcomputer near the beginning. It's on the screen itself from what I remember.

>>83798242
His actual name 'Anatoli Knyazev' is shown.

>>83798242
>>83798278
Okay. Thanks.

>>83797058
>except Snyder said multiple times that Superman is his favourite superhero
show me where.
because that doesn't mesh at all with the heavy metal thing.

>>83797025
>literally too retarded to understand a simple movie

lol
And people said that "too smart" was a meme.

Meaning aside, Batman not marking Lex makes a lot more sense knowing he's being taken to Arkham instead of being kept in solitary.

>>83798366
I think it was just bad editing that confused some people about a few things. Hopefully, the extended version fixes that.

Those scenes of Clark investigating Batman are useless once their fight fucking ends and Batman is nice to Superman out of nowhere and still threatens to brand Lex

>>83797058
Snyder says a lot of stuff, most of them are lies

>>83796790
>gee thanks Superman, we're gonna need some room here.

and he STILL DOESNT FUCKING TALK.

>>83798579
>I don't understand drama

>>83798609
>I don't understand Superman
Fuck you too, Zack

>>83798609

>implying Snyder does either

Sad looks do not instantly equate to drama

>>83798636
actions speak larger than words idiot.

Hes shown saving people, feeling guilt about not being to prevent more lives lost, and is perturbed at people feeling uneasy about his presence. He's overall visibly shaken.

>>83798533
I believe he's read The Dark Knight Returns and has watched at least 2 Christopher Reeve's Superman films and that is the extent of Snyder's Superman knowledge.

>>83798484
Where was the editing bad? I see this said a lot but the scenes flowed well for me.

>>83798703

>he's read The Dark Knight Returns

I honestly don't know if he did. It's amazing how any scenes and concepts he stole for BvS and then fucked them up beyond belief.

>>83798579
Remember what Hack said about superheroes talking while in costume!

>>83798693
>Superman
>visibly shaken
>first priority is not trying to comfort people around him
>instead flies away
"fuck this I'm gonna try and find Nolan Batman in the mountains instead, he's happier than I am"

right, drama.

>>83798703
Looking at the pictures and doodling around extra scowls isn't what I'd call "reading"

>>83796790
>emt not screaming at Superman to stop moving casualties without a board

dropped

These scenes should have been in the movie

>>83798767
That he was unable to do a recreation of the "Heat scene" while they were in costume? Because that's basically all he said.

>>83798899
He actually said it was impossible for him to do more than 4-5 lines of dialogue with them being in costume because he thinks it would take people out of the movie or something dumb like that.

The senate bombing aftermath was taken out? WHY

>>83798974
It had Superman in it.

>>83798974
Needed more room for muh doomsday fight

Pretty much the deleted scenes seemed like the perfect transitioning scenes for the movie.

Without them, I can see why the movie felt jarring.

I still don't think Snyder should stick around even if the ultimate edition saves the movie

>>83798609
>I think looking bored is dramatic

>>83798968
He DID say they tried and that it was impossible in their suits. I wish he would release that footage to see if he was lying or if it was actually a legitimate concern.

This should not have been cut. It would have stopped the idiots/trolls from constantly asking what Lex's motivation was since he spelled it out for them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75WFPwqwU9A&list=PLVjyFgjZRa9W9E0zwKncVKmj7thwYjSwD&index=10

>>83798849
>shouting at the guy with laser eyes and super strength

No, thank you.

>>83799086
His sperm-receptacle is a big producer at WB

That's why, even though all his WB films have unperformed or outright flopped (Watchmen), he still gets to make movies for them.

>>83798771
>>first priority is not trying to comfort people around him
>>83798693
>perturbed at people feeling uneasy about his presence.
>>83797737
>- Shows that responders unease at Superman's presence

>>83799091
He doesn't even look bored, he looks annoyed.

After all the quick cuts/zoom ins between the guy in the chair, the senator, Superman and the luthorade, there's this big explosion, and Superman looks at the camera, and I was expecting this to play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyZDZCGQJf8

>>83798974
Not enough Batman

>>83799137
This makes no sense.

He hates Superman yet creates Doomsday and has a weird worship thing going on with Apokolips imagery.

>>83799137
No amount of dialogue or visuals would have stopped people from saying Lex has no motivation because even in the comics his motivation is "KILL SUPERMAN AT ALL COSTS."

>>83799091
>>83799156
>sociopaths or autists who can't tell emotions apart

Go to a psychiatrist maybe and ask them to give you pictures of different emotions. Just learn them through brute memorization if you have to.

>>83799137

It was already spelled out with his Problem of Evil speech to Lois and Superman.

>>83799181
>This makes no sense.
Maybe he's under Desaad's mind control or something else which has to do with being influenced/manipulated by Darksied?

>>83799246
When the baseline for Clark's personality is what it is, the nuance is lost.

>>83799181

He has no control over Superman. That's the difference.

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>>83799246
>LOOK AT HIM EMOTION! LOOK!

>>83799151
>I don't know why you guys are complaining about the claws
>you see them putting the adamantium in him
>why are you guys calling him the Wolverine
>it says superman on the title!

>>83799246
You're the ones holding the frown to meaning he is sad, completely ignoring the whole tonal mismatch. You're the austists reducing emotions to emoji's.

>>83799289
>Implying Lex has some control over Darkseid
kek
Maybe he thinks he does.

>>83799308
>>83799329
wow, so this is autism

>>83799289
Did have control over Doomsday?
Even the senator isn't effectively manipulated by Lex, that's why he has to kill her. The only person that Lex actually svengalis properly is Batman, the only other character other than Superman he arguably shouldn't be able to.

>>83799289
>>83799355
He doesn't have control over Doomsday either.

>>83799387
>>83799392

Nah, but he made him with his own DNA so the symbolic victory is enough for him, I guess.

>>83799289
He doesn't control Doomsday either. He tried to kill Lex until Superman stopped him.

>>83799257
That's just an assumption and isn't consistent with why Lex hates Superman before the Zod experiments.

>>83799251
It was but a lot of people still didn't understand. This scene made it very clear, I feel.

>>83799181
PROMETHEUS

>>83799392
>>83799454
>He doesn't have control over Doomsday

I think Lex thought he could have control over Doomsday, but realized after it woke up he didn't.
His plan B was most likely this >>83799404

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>>83799308
>being this autistic
holy shit

>>83799074

This so much. So much context is missing that would have helped the movie come across as more coherent.

>>83797029
the idiots on /co/ do

>>83799086
He's leaving after JL1

>>83799526
Plan B for what?

If Batman hadn't made the spear and Superman just died, then Lex would have Doomsday to worry about. An even more unstable superbeing that will just smash Lex's face s soon as he tries to get close to it.

>>83799251
>>83799474
Nothing is "spelled out" in this movie, and DCEU Lex is still a confusing manchild that DC fans have to cling to because they have nothing else.

I want to see the scenes in the desert. What was up with the missile on the trailer?

>>83799137
>your sin is existing
>but I'll make an alien monster that's much worse than you could ever be
>and I'll also attract a bunch of other aliens to Earth
why

>>83796353
>>>/tv/

>>83799657
He's under Darksied's influence as well as his own disillusion. Hes a blind follower.

>>83797029
As you guys have been eager to point out at every opportunity, this isn't that Superman. They're doing something new.

>>83797029
>>83799595
What a good guy, destroying someone's truck because he was a jerk to him.

And doing shit like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyG5axoTtlc

>>83799620
pls no
I LOVE YOU SNYDER DON'T LEAVE ME

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He's moved everything to a playlist here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?annotation_id=annotation_3753866613&feature=iv&list=PLVjyFgjZRa9W9E0zwKncVKmj7thwYjSwD&src_vid=tKrBCqShF9U

If you're interested, watch it while you can.

>>83799689
Source: your buttcheeks

>>83799724

As much as I liked BvS, he's got some major flaws in style and substance and isn't a good fit for a cinematic universe that will have to encompass multiple character perspectives and tones.

>>83799735
So how did Lex figure out that Superman can't see through lead?

>>83799714
>destroying someone's truck because he was a jerk to him.

Well, he's only human.
:^)

>>83799782
>As much as I liked BvS
I should start adding this phrase to my filter.

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>>83798366
>people are complaining because they didn't understand the movie
>not because the movie is shit in the first place.

Keep on dreaming, Anon.

>>83799830
Yhea bro I always retaliate like a fucking baby when I have to deal with a bad costumer

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Holy shit! Finch made it!

>>83799810
Batman also knew, those smoke bomb he used during the fight were confirmed to be lead.
I suppose in the two years he has been doing stuff around, one of his heroics somehow made it clear that he can't see through lead to the public.

>>83798609
>giving an 'I have to take a dump hard' look for the cameras is drama.

>>83799714
I don't consider Clark to be "Superman" in Man of Steel. He was just wearing the costume.

His transformation into Superman was after the events of metropolis' destruction to BvS. He's still not there yet.

>>83799308
He does have that look on his face.

>Is futa gay?

>>83799647
That's why his plan A was on his belief he could control Doomsday and use him as a silver bullet and possibly take over the world.

But in comic book fashion, he couldn't and Superman and Batman didn't kill each other and ended up saving the day.

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>>83799946
But it's never shown in the movie. So it's a plothole.

>>83800009
>I don't consider Clark to be "Superman" in Man of Steel. He was just wearing the costume.
Pic related

>>83799830
I'm human and I'd never sperg out like that. Supes is prone to shit-fits in his movies. He looks completely unstable. He's either moping, crying or screaming. What a baby.

>>83800154
>I'm human and I'd never sperg out like that. Supes is prone to shit-fits in his movies. He looks completely unstable. He's either moping, crying or screaming. What a baby.
Not the guy you're responding to, but you're sperging out at what you believe is Supes sperging out.

>>83800095
He has no reason for thinking that. In this version, Doomsday is an ancient kryptonian monster that's documented by their computers, an abomination (wah wah) that the A.I. even tries to keep Luther from creating.

So it's still awful writing.

>>83800200
That's not sperging out, but I'm sure if you exaggerate what someone else does then it will dismiss their point somehow

>>83800364
>exaggerate what someone else does
Exactly what you're doing. Keep 'sperging, sperg.

>>83800154
I know most people on 4chan hate their parents, but I know that's probably how I would respond if someone attempted to attack my mother. Superman isn't for you if you don't get that.

>>83800269
Its a aberration to the old failsafe corrupted by Lex's DNA. He thought he could control it because he kinda remade it.

>>83796353
I have always wondered, these guys are being paid to post this or they do it for free?

>Still no torrent
Fuck this world

>>83800126
It's a copout how exactly?

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>>83799810
He read the newspaper

>>83799404
>As I stand here, about to be turned to play-doh under the giant fist of the unstoppable beast I have created, is that if this monster, who is far worse in every possible way than the one I hate the most, kills my most hated enemy, and I have unleashed an unstoppable sociopath beast into the world, then I am satisfied.

>This is an excellent plan.

>>83800605
It is for Lex. "I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG! IT DOESN'T MATTER IF I DIED IN THE PROCESS!"

>>83800502
>I'd respond to the guy that has my mother held hostage with a threat of death by laser eyes
That was dumb and Superman was dumb for considering it.

>>83800678
This is 200% retarded.

>>83800605
>Lex does something rash out of vindictive rage at Superman.
Gee, this never happened before.

Also
>"No man in the sky intervened when I was a boy to deliver me from daddy's fist and abominations."
>Man in the sky intervenes to deliver him from the fist of an abomination.
POTTERY
O
T
T
E
R
Y

>>83800416
Hahaha, oh wow. What a huge faggot that you are.

>>83800732
>you wouldn't do that

You must really hate your own mother. I'll take her if you don't want her. In fact, if I had Superman's powers I don't know if I could have stopped myself from incinerating him right there and destroying the entire city just to find my mother.

>>83800750
So is Lex. Read a comic for once.

>>83800502
I loved my mother to the end, Anon.

But Superman was always sperging out. Not only during the hostage situation.

>>83800799
>Lex is 200% retard in the comics.

>>83800791
Sure showed me, anon.

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>>83800799
If I had Superman's powers and I knew Lex had my mom I'd just fucking look for her.

It'd take like 10 minutes at most, only a retard would waste time with Lex while their mom is being held hostage somewhere.

Is some idiot really saying that responding with anger as a first response to finding out your mom was kidnapped is unrealistic.

>>83800874
Especially in the Silver Age. "I'll go back in time to become Superman's dad! THEN he'll never be able to fight back!"

>>83800905
>If I had Superman's powers and I knew Lex had my mom I'd just fucking look for her.
This scene is in the extended cut.

>>83800757
>Man in the sky intervenes to deliver him from the fist of an abomination.

See, this is where you're wrong. For this to be true Doomsday couldn't have been made by his own hands, just like when Lex suffered abuse from his father. It wasn't his fault then, so it can't be his fault now. SYMBOLISM is not something you can turn on and off. It needs to constant all the way through the story.

>>83800920
>But during the silver age...

>>83800905
Actually, Lex said if Superman did that or if he tried to kill Lex, his mom was as good as dead.

>>83800908
Does Alex Hirsch hate his mom too? Superman should be smiling and say "Thanks Lex!" Then give a speech about how great Lex is.

>>83800908
That's not the problem. It's ok for Supes to go full rage at that point. The problem is the two-gear character that is Superman in those movies:

mopey or raging killer eyes

Which one do you want?

>>83800908
I'm saying it's dumb and would only make the situation worse. You're not supposed to lose your cool in a hostage situation, and since Lex is a fucking psychopath what's stopping him from just going "I don't like your attitude." and ordering his men to kill Martha?

In fact why did he even keep Martha alive if he was just gonna release Doomsday on Superman if he beat Batman anyway?

>>83801023
How would Lex even know?

>>83799308
http://mindchecker.channel4.com/test-autism.html
you're gonna need this

>>83799939
Fucking how?

>>83801057
I've seen plenty of happy moment of dupes. From his interactions to Lois to him bring happy to find out where he came from in MoS.
>>83801070
It was a first response but he calmed down. Did you forget Zod also threaten Martha. His mom is a sensitive topic.

>>83800573
Because Superman got his values from how he was raised.

If they did the Superboy part of his origin then maybe all of the dumb crap in Man of Steel would make a little more sense, but Clark is in his mid-30s when he crashes into Smallville and endangers several innocent people.

>>83801220
Can't pinch the Finch!

>>83799939
thats not finch

>>83801230
>he's very happy in those two moments and that's it.

And that's it Anon. Superman's lack of levity is a MAJOR problem in the script. Hell, the lack of light tones in the movie makes it completely MONOtone. It's most dark and grey with a blue filter on top.

>>83800506
That makes no god damn sense.

>>83801282
Not that anon but for three years following Man of Steel I had to sit here and get told on a near daily basis "He wasn't Superman yet! It doesn't count!" so I can see how a 180 on that might feel like its kinda bullshit

>>83801282
>but Clark is in his mid-30s when he crashes into Smallville and endangers several innocent people.
But he has never trained with his powers much less fought anyone.
And he has probably never had his mother in mortal danger before.
He didn't choose to crash into Smallville his face was facing Zod below him he was not looking forward to where he was going.

>>83799138
we've been calling him Man of Murder for three years and that's literally what he's doing to that casualty in that scene

>but x-ray vision

if there's nothing wrong with them they don't need an emt

>>83801348
>Superman's lack of levity is a MAJOR problem in the script
No its fucking not, he should not be smiling and giddy while the world is paranoid and fearing him.

>>83801230
He only calmed down because Lex had to tell him she would die if he killed him. Lex shows him the pictures, Supes gets laser eyes, Lex says he doesn't know where she is, then the laser eyes get more intense. He would have killed Lex if he wasn't told what would happen.

>the football clip he uploaded right now where Metropolis destroys Gotham but the commentary says that there's nobody left watching because the Gotham fanbase is larger
>yfw Snyder originally wanted Superman to destroy Batman but WB said no

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>>83801422
>I don't know what a reassuring smile is but I'm going to call everyone else autistic

>>83801348
>Spoonfeed me
>>83801371
Its simple if you compare it to the frankstein trope.
Lex tried to to the same with Superboy in the comics.

Lex learns about the failsafe and tries to use it for his own purposes. To basically remake it. He uses his own DNA even when the computer tells him, its not a good idea but he does anyway because he thinks since he made it he will gave auto control over it.

>>83796353
Don't care, thanks anyway.

>>83801422
No, you dolt. You SHOULD have moments of levity in a heavy-dark movie so you can actually feel the weight of the dark tones even more. All that brooding made the movie dull and uninteresting. Even 'A man on fire' had happy moments. Or you'll tell me that movie was a 'quipfest' too?

>>83801530
Fuck you tripfag.

>>83801489
Big mistake posting that page, buddy. Superman isn't smiling. Don't even try to post the next page either because that's barely even a smirk. That's not to say that it's BAD, but that Superman doesn't smile 24/7.

>>83801623
Watch BvS again. There were plenty of light and funny moments, but not enough to detract from serious scenes.

>>83801377
>But he has never trained with his powers much less fought anyone.
And that's really fucking stupid. Anyone with Clark's power would want to see how far he can go with them. Also, didn't it went through Clark's balding head that MAYBE there were others like him and some day they would come after Clark and not be friendly?

>>83801756
How would you suggest that he train? Do you want him to learn martial arts and break every bone in his instructor's body? Or do you want him to fight against rocks and becoming the anti rock man?

>>83801708
>Watch BvS again.
God, no.
>There were plenty of light and funny moments
There wasn't plenty. And they were all badly scripted, acted and directed.

>>83801808
Not train to fight of course. But try out his powers, see how far he could jump and all that. Also, Superman is in full control of his strength. He can learn martial arts if he wanted to.

I'm not shitposting, genuinely curious:

Did Superman smile more than once in the entire movie? I can only think of the bath scene.

>>83801826
Yeah you're retarded. Keep on making up lies in your own fantasy land, but don't bring them out into the real world. The real world deals with truth.

>>83801708
He's kinda smiling in the "don't be afraid" panel. It's not an overt grin, no. But it's not a frown either.

It's subtle. I thought you guys LIKED subtlety.

>>83801873
In the real world this movie got panned and it underperformed.

>>83801871
Smiled when rescuing Lois in Africa
Smiled when rescuing the girl from the fire
Smiled at Lois in the Doomsday fight

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>>83797406
>>There’s a new scene with Jon Stewart roasting Superman.
Say WHAT mutherfucker??

>>83801873
You're a delusional, impolite fag that's sperging out on a thread about a bad movie while defending a literal hack of a director. Have fun with your life.

>>83801879
Yeah, similar to the smirk that he did when Batman tried to hit him when the kryptonite gas wore off. Like I said, it's not bad, it just disproves the point trying to be made (Superman NEEEDS to smile all the time).

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>>83801998

>>83801901
Yeah, for bad reasons. I've never trusted critics and this just provides more evidence.

>>83802019
Oh I'm having fun with my life. I can actually enjoy things, especially those of high quality like Dawn of Justice. Go ahead on your hate tirade, but eventually you will have nothing left to hate.

>>83802094
>I eat shit and I love it! Suck it, world!

>>83802094
Once Hack Snyder stops making DC movies I'll definitely have significantly fewer things to hate, yes.

>>83802023
Yeah, except that was never the point.
It's NEVER been all the time. That's a strawman you guvs have constructed to excuse the fact that it consistently looks like he's in physical pain from helping people.

The complaints have always been in a certain context, not all the time.

>>83799140
He made $68m from Man of Steel because WB were so certain it would fail and take his career with it that they offered him 10% of the gross. In 2013 that made him the highest paid director - probably the highest paid person actually working in LA - by a country mile.

What usually happens when someone makes that kind of money is that they're offered all kinds of partnership deals. So with the X-Men, Jackman's been getting a big chunk of the gross for a long time now, and he's put a lot of that money up to finance more movies, which make him more money because again, he's getting a cut of the gross.

So for Snyder the deal would be this: put up say $25m to develop a new movie franchise due to release over 10 years. Of those, the ones he directs he'll get his 10% back on as before - when his contract is up he can renegotiate, but if they want him back he'll get his 10% again - which means if they make, say, $870m he'd get $87m. It's going to be interesting to see whether he does in fact get that money - some of it could just be put back into production costs for new movies without ever reaching him, though nominally it would have been his, it just avoids taxing it twice or running it through a half dozen shell companies to avoid tax - because it may be that his MoS deal was one-time, and that he re-signed at a saner rate for BvS and on.

The truth is even if he put in every penny he made from Man of Steel, he'd make it all back and more on 10%. There's two movies ready to go, there's another filming; they'd all have to make Green Lantern or Watchmen levels of gross to see him lose money, and even then he'd still be due like $60m. This is before we get to the other seven or eight he's financed prep for.

It's not a question of firing him, either; that's not work for hire, it's a business partnership. If you wanted him out you'd need to buy him out - including his expected earnings, and no studio has 20 tentpoles' worth of 10% to just throw away.

>>83801023
How would Lex know if Superman was looking for his mom? Him and KGBeast clearly weren't in active communication with each other, even when Batman was actually inside the building smacking thugs around.

Likewise, how would KGBeast know Superman killed Lex? Again, they obviously weren't communicating at all during the whole deal.

>>83802174
This. All the complaints on the movie are pretty solid. I'm not demanding some kind of cutey-funny BvS. I just want it to be a good film. It wasn't good. It was not even mediocre. It was bad. We live in world where people are pulling off movies with Lego characters and it's the fucking shit. It's unacceptable that WB can't make a good Superman movie.

>>83799939
Where? That's not Finch.

>>83802136
When Zack "on the right track" Snyder stops directing DCEU a movies, it will be a great loss for all.

>>83802174
https://youtube.com/watch?v=nH8vLU_rhe8
Look at 0:17. The smirk is subtle, just like in Birthright, but it's there. He only loses the smile and switches to confusion when people are trying to touch him. He wants to be treated like a firefighter, not like Jesus. That's always been the point. It's beautiful.

How come there hasn't been a live action Superman who has super breath, and turn things into ice.

>>83798579

he can't do shit anymore as he isn't a medic and people think its his fault anyway.

>>83802465
Because that would look silly and be stupid.

>>83802504
But Superman is silly.

>>83802465
I know right. Super breath is awesome. I hope that the revived Superman once again tries to see what limits he has and finds out about his super breath. Better yet, he also learns how to control his heat vision in such a way that he can easily control its power and precision.

>>83801756
>Anyone with Clark's power would want to see how far he can go with them

But that wasn't in Clark nature/upbringing. He was constantly told to hide his powers from his Dad and he hide them because he wanted to fit in.

He didn't see the limits of his power until he fought Zod

>>83802422
I dunno man. It's there, but the fact that it's there as the camera starts to pan behind him kind of makes me wonder if it was just something Snyder missed.

This is one of those major characterization things that needs to be a little overt to give him a proper tonal contrast with the others. But we'll just have to agree to disagree as to whether or not Snyder did it effectively.

>>83802274
>How would Lex know if Superman was looking for his mom? Him and KGBeast clearly weren't in active communication with each other, even when Batman was actually inside the building smacking thugs around.
Gotham is right across the pond. If he didn't get there fast enough it would look supercilious.
Lex can tell where he would fly too since there's a giant signal to follow.

>>83802274
I'm assuming, but I think that Lex knew Superman loved his mom so he was banking on the fact that he would do as Lex said. If Lex said looking for his mom would result in her death, Superman wouldn't look for her. He was cocky.

>>83801489
>smile when people blame you for the damage

creepy alien go home.

>>83802747
That's a fair analysis. I personally think that Superman had a lot more lighter and happier moments in Man of Steel because Dawn of Justice was more of a tragic film. Superman was gradually losing that hope and optimism that he had, but still held on to a small thread until that confrontation with Batman. Then he goes back to his old self, with all of his hope regained, as well as the hopes of both Batman and Wonder Woman.

>>83802863
>Superman was gradually losing that hope and optimism that he had
a)he never had any
b)he should never lose it

>>83802863
Man of Steel didn't feel much better.
I see too many of the wires, I guess. The flight scene does nothing for me because the vast majority of its emotional resonance is tied up in very basic cinematography techniques and ,mirror movements. And that's like, the biggest positive moment in the entire movie.

Clark's story, for me, goes from an unsure, passive and kind of dour mopey guy trying to find his place in the world. to an unsure, passive and kind of jaded mopey guy that's unhappy with his place in the world. The vast majority of it is and I'm supposed to take it as a given that the highs happened off camera in between movies.

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>>83802890
a) Watch Man of Steel.
b) He doesn't. But to say that all the tragedies that happen shouldn't take a toll on Superman is just ignorant.

It's funny though. I'm reminded of the Dark Knight quote, "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain." Superman cheated that by dying a hero and coming back.

no dance offs
no quips
no smiling and laughing
no bright colors

fuck this movie.

Based off just the scenes uploaded, I actually can't believe that scenes such as Clark investigating Batman, Clark and Lois scenes, and Superman after the senate, were cut in favour of the scene were Superman kicks the Batmobile off the road. I actually think Snyder did good here, and feel inclined to blame the execs.

>>83803917
Yeah. Not to mention that one of the questions I wasn't sure of, "why did Clark Kent report at the party and not someone more experienced?" was answered in the Ultimate Cut.

Whatever it's still a 2/10 movie.
>second movie in cinematic universe
>batman already spent 20 years doing batman shit but we dont get to see it first because muh justice league
Two scenes of Clark talking won't save this trainwreck.

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>>83799308
>taking one frame and manipulating it as evidence

Yeah, I can do that too.

>>83803640
>a) Watch Man of Steel.
Not that anon but Man of Steel isn't an optimistic movie by any stretch of the imagination except perhaps comparative to BvS.

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>>83804717
>217 replies
>55 ips
Stop it, you two. First asshole>>83801873 you're the one trying to convince a bunch of guys in a corner of the internet that this movie was good. In whatever the fuck you consider the real world shit keeps getting panned. It wans't f4ntastic levels of bad but still very far from good, barely decent. Its legacy will be of a giant miss opportunity starring two of the most popular icons, and WHAT DID YOU DAY THAT NAME?!
And second asshole, stop swallowing the guys delusions like if it was wonder woman's cock. Jesus fuck. You two need a good dicking.

>>83804691
That guy looks pretty haunted. It doesn't really compare to the Superman in the Senate.

Also, didn't Superman just fly away in the theatrical release?

>>83804717
Not that anon but MoS is an optimistic movie for sure. Violent, but definitely optimistic
>>83805207
Why don't you provide them then my man

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>>83803858
You know, it's not just one extreme or the other.

>>83804717
>>83805265
It's pretty hard to say Man of Steel isn't an optimistic movie when Jor-El literally says "our hopes and dreams travel with you."

>>83803858
There were quips though

>>83803917
>>83804126
Also, the reason people think Superman killed those people at the begining is because they were all roasted in one place in a way that looks like Superman used his heat vision with them (but were actually killed by a flamethrower just like Ma Kent almost was at the end).
I'm so mad this wasn't included.

>>83807135
They have to be unfunny or they won't count.

>>83807173
They were unfunny though

>>83805959
That doesn't reflect on the movie at all. It ends with thousands dead, Kryptonians as race genocided by Clark, and Clark is still mopey going into BvS.

>>83797029
This Superman isn't a good person though.

>>83797527
No it wasn't, there was a shitty montage where you see him looking annoyed that he had to help people. That's not Superman.

>>83805959
It isn't. MoS is a grim piece of shit movie about an alien with superpowers. It's not about an altruistic hero who lives to help people.
MoS ruins Superman and makes him unlikeable.

>>83796353
It's really quick but there is a little easter egg in newspaper describing the bat brandings.

"If the GCPD endorses masked vigilantes as our city's watchmen, who watches the watchmen?" —Harvey

Aside from the Watchmen reference, it looks like Harvey Dent might still be a good guy.

>>83808758
Probably trolling, but he was uncomfortable with how people either worshiped him or mistrust him. It's clear enough that this Superman enjoys and wants nothing but help others (here and in MoS).
When he saves the girl from the fire, he's smiling until all those people round him.

>>83809096
>It's clear enough that this Superman enjoys and wants nothing but help others (here and in MoS).
No it's not. Stop lying you dumbass. BvS even made a point of having Clark look distraught during his saving the day montage.

>When he saves the girl from the fire, he's smiling until all those people round him.
There's a shadow and dust covering his face in that part of the scene.

>>83809359
>BvS even made a point of having Clark look distraught during his saving the day montage.
Wich, again, is because of how people are reacting to him, not because he doesn't like saving. He does. It's pretty obvious. In fact pretty much everything he does in MoS is trying to figure out how to help others, one way or another.

>>83809521
Oh, that's why he fought Zod in the middle of the city. To help people.

>people are now seriously defending Snyder

>>83809603
B-b-but anon-kun he just takes the comics and puts them on the screen

>>83809603
If you give a starving man a piece of shit, odds are he's not going to be picky.

Can we all agree that BvS Ultimate Cut is like way better than Civil War?q

>>83809562
Yes, because Zod wanted to kill people and Superman wanted to stop him from doing so.
You know, you can totally criticize a movie's decisions (a fight taking place in a city) without making stuff up ("this Superman doesn't like saving people, guys!").

>>83809690
Well Civil War suffers from character inconsistency. But at least there's actually a justifiable division and you can see why both sides dislike each other. Batman almost has a reason, Superman doesn't.

Zod was a mistake to start with. Should've been Brainiac or Metallo or something smaller.

Damn, it really does clarify a lot of things. Snyder got railroaded.

>>83809750
Batman has a reason but that reason requires him to be a myopic idiot and it strains credulity.

It's just nonsensical that he somehow knows Clark's full suite of powers and weaknesses and STILL hasn't stumbled on any of the secret identity stuff, when Lois tracked him down with such ease before Superman was even a public figure.

>>83809732
Superman doesn't even try to save anyone on MoS, he's a complete asshole.
He gets fleshed out a bit more on BvS, where we see that helping people looks quite boring for him.

>>83809831
>Superman doesn't even try to save anyone on MoS, he's a complete asshole.

You serious? He saves shitloads of people.

>>83809819
>it really does clarify a lot of things
Like...?

>>83809763
Well now Apokolips is next so we're probably never going to get to those characters.

>>83809763
If it had to be a super villain it should have been the parasite.
It shouldn't have been a super villain, the movie should have been about the public coming to terms with and eventually coming to love Superman.

>>83809906
When? I don't recall him going out of his way to save anyone except Louis.

>>83809907
>Well now Apokolips is next so we're probably never going to get to those characters.
Feels great doesn't it?

>>83809961
I think you do need some kind of threat he can save the world from and that manifests as a supervillain, but Zod is too big for the first movie.

And it was such a waste too. What's the point of having another Kryptonian if he can't even bruise Clark?

>>83809907
Like what happened in the desert.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCtmFqSdNEg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHVZn4uJO04

Also Clark's investigation into Batman. In the theatrical cut it's like he woke up one day and decided to go after Batman, explained more fully in the Ultimate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpIy3k_K4co
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv_N2JNhRsA


Also Clark's struggles with what the right use of his power is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgWuBWUbhyk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn-tI7gefI0

>>83809907
>Like...?
Like the entire Africa sub plot. The theatrical cut never showed KGBeast burning the bodies to make it look Superman killed them, they never explained who the African lady was and that she was hired by Lex. The fact that Lex was the one having inmates branded by Batman killed to manipulate Superman into a confrontation with him. The movie as released in theaters totally butchered the movie.

>>83809995
Kids on the bus when he was a kid, oil platform workers, Lois of course, apparently he's been travelling the country and moving on whenever he has to use his powers. He saves the whole world too.

>>83809831
>>83809995
>Superman doesn't even try to save anyone on MoS, he's a complete asshole.
His introductory scene has him saving people on an oil rig after everybody else took them for dead. There are plenty of more examples, like stoping the world engine even though it could kill him.
>He gets fleshed out a bit more on BvS, where we see that helping people looks quite boring for him.
No, it shows that he's worried because of how people are reacting to him, as made obvious by the dialogue going on and the last scene of him watching the news the dialogue is from.
It's not that hard.

>>83810127

You don't need those scene in the movie if you have a goddamn brain though.

>>83810148

That's Clark. When does SUPERMAN the fucking pinnacle of heroism and altruism go out of his way to save anyone?
I would have been fine the Zod fight in the city if we actually saw him pulling people out of the rubble.

>>83810241
>You don't need those scene in the movie if you have a goddamn brain though.
None of that is implied in the movie at all though. As far as we knew the African lady was just some pissed off niggress. Sure, it's somewhat obvious they were trying to frame Superman, but they did a piss poor job of executing it in the movie that was released. Plus, it just disjoints the movie when key scenes have been completely removed.

So the Ultimate Edition will bump it up from a 2/10 to a 3/10?

>>83810325
It disjoints the movie when nobody acts like a goddamn human being either.

>>83810241
>That's Clark. When does SUPERMAN

Oh that's right, they're different people. Of course. You serious bro?

>>83810378
>nobody acts like a goddamn human being
Movie characters aren't real people. Especially not comic book movie characters. Though I don't see how they behaved in ways that are atypical of the genre.

>>83810430
They are though, the point of a Superman origin that MoS didn't deliver on is to show why Superman is the way he is, we should see his journey from a boy who struggles with growing up and having powers.
He saves people because he can at first and because it feels right to use his powers to help everyone else he continues to do so.
I don't count people he saves from the tornado in smallville in Superman for all seasons as superman saving people, that's Clark.
Once he comes to terms with who he is and what he has to do, that's when he becomes Superman.

>still not going to change the movie taking itself way too seriously while simultaneously having incredibly goofy, over-the-top writing and direction
>still not going to change Lex's characterization being so far from his comic counterpart that you can't even call them the same character
>still not going to change both Superman and Batman just being violent hypocrites
>still not going to give the titular fight any ideaological significance
>still not going to make any sense why Superman can't just save his mom
>still not going to make any sense why the fuck Superman would refer to his own mother by her first name
>still going to have Doomsday the Cave Troll shoehorned into the movie
>still going to have all the Justice League shit shoehorned into the movie solely for the sake of sequel setup with no relevance to the film it's actually in
>still going to have Cavill and Gadot's shit performances

>>83809750
At least in BvS the characters fight each other because they don't really know each other. I find it dissapoing that in CW characters won't solve things more peacefuly after going through so much toguether.

>>83810761
B-but, bravo Snyder.

You see, if you just ignore all the bad parts of movies then everything is perfect. Literally all movies become a 10/10, you dirty Marvel shills just can't accept the pure genius of this movie.

Snyder is a genius that no one understands, so if I understand him that makes me smart. I'm an extremely intelligent person look at my advanced tastes.

>>83810838
But it's as out of character for Batman and Superman to just fight each other.
The problem with Civil War is that it's based on a comic that is a poorly written piece of shit anyway.
Dark Knight Returns is great and Death of Superman is passable, it's just that Snyder and Goyer are hacks that don't know the meaning of the word Altruism.

>>83810378
No movie characters act like real human beings do.

>>83810430
>>83810579

I still mad that Man of Steel had SUCH a good angle on Superman that Zac Snyder stumbled upon and completely squandered.

Clark is caught between the wishes of two Dads.

EarthDad wants him to be Clark Kent, Regular Farmer.
>Don't use your powers, don't attract unwanted attention.
>Would give his life to ensure his son is capable of living a normal life (note: they executed this completely wrong in the movie.)

KryptonDad wants him to be Kal-El, savior of the human race
>Use all the powers, show them the way. You'll be a god among mortals
>You're not one of them.

Clark doesn't want to disappoint either Dad. He wants so much to help people with his power without sacrificing his identity. He ends up running around for years just randomly helping people and disappearing.

The solution IS Superman. A heroic, superhuman front that he can proudly be when saving the world, while maintaining his Clark Kent, Reporter persona so he can have a life. Yes, he's Kryptonian but he's still a MAN (who just happens to have SUPERpowers). He can make both Dads proud. Movie ends with him opening his shirt to reveal his costume underneath to fly off the save the world and wink at the camera. Clark is at peace with himself at last.

>>83810838
>I find it dissapoing that in CW characters won't solve things more peacefuly after going through so much toguether.

Yes, you'd think that Felicity and Oliver could stop emoing at each other for 2 seconds to have an adult discussion about secrecy and relationships

>>83811031
Hey, I'm not saying the role reversal was bad, just that the movie is garbage and fails to deliver on anything beyond explosions and punching.
I can deal with origin updating and shifting some things around a bit.

But just because a story SHOULD be meaningful and important as well as introducing a new generation to Superman, doesn't mean that is does. And Man of Steel didn't.

That's all there is too it.

>>83811139

Oh absolutely. I'm just annoyed because it *wasn't* that there wasn't some meaning or depth behind this new Superman. It was just botched and executed so badly that it comes off as being thoughtless.

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These definitely help the story. I'm excited.

>>83796353
Aaaaaaand they're gone!

>>83811180
What bugs me is that Richard Donner did this already, quite well too.

>"All these powers and I couldn't save him"

That's perfect motivation for a grittier Superman if we have to have it.

>>83811264
See >>83799735

>>83811291
What bugs me is that Donner Supes also killed Zod but no one cared then

>>83811348
No one cares that he killed Zod.
What bothers people is his disregard for life while fighting Zod and then suddenly "Oh no! I have to save this one family"

>>83811389
>No one cares that he killed Zod.
Were you not here for the 2 months+ after MoS came out?

>>83811425
Nope.

>>83811469
Well people were making a big deal of it then. And I'm annoyed by those people

>>83811348
>>83811389
Dooner didn't put Zod into the first movie.
It's never been the action. It's the execution. You can have Clark kill the bad guy or fail to save people if the narrative earns it. People feel Snyder isn't earning it; that he's just going for the action beats without the necessary character build up.

You're welcome to disagree with that, certainly, and clam that he has laid the groundwork. But to say that people hate the action and not the context in which the action is performed is disingenuous bordering on a strawman argument

>>83811527
Oh, they're wrong then. Killing Zod is not a problem in comparison to most other things in Man of Steel.

>>83798309

Heavy Metal isn't exactly a Superhero comic though.

>>83811576
>>83811587

Yes, agreed.

When does Clark decide to put on the glasses? That seems like a character point that's just kind of glossed over?

Obviously we know why he does it, but he just seems to show up at the Daily Planet with the glasses for no reason. Like, how did this Clark come to that decision and why was that not worth exploring given that it's the solution to the whole "how can I live among people" dilemma that his entire character arc is centered around?

>>83811658
Earth One handles that quite well.

>>83811615
That's kind of my point.
We have an interview where Snyder says "I was never into superhero comics. Heavy Metal was more my thing" and he explains that those comics appealed to him for having exactly the things that a Superman story wouldn't. In light of that when some chucklefuck goes "But no Snyder LOVES Superman!" with no quotes or links or anything I'm calling bullshit.

>>83801422
It worked for early Golden Age Superman.

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>>83811713
Most halfway decent versions of the origin do.

>>83808933

That would be kind of lame. We've already seen Two Face in two movies (I think quite perfectly - for film - in The Dark Knight) and I'd prefer other villains.

Not that Two Face isn't compelling, but he's been given justice in film, and pretty much only him and the Joker have been given justice in Batman films.

>>83808713
>>83808758
>>83808840
>>83809359
>>83809562
>>83809831
>>83809995
>>83810241

Holy shit, at this level of straight up fucking stupidity.

Ignore the autism meme. This is level red retardation.

Holy fuck.

>>83809690

Civil War was so fucking forgettable, plus the concept of Civil War (both comics and film) were awful.

What is the US government actually going to do to stop the Hulk? Or Thor?

>>83810241
>When does SUPERMAN

Breaks the World Engine. That's 7 billion people. Kills Zod. That's 7 Billion people again. Total people saved by Superman: 14 Billion people. Good job.

>>83809831

Literally the first scene with non infant Clark is him saving people from an exploding oil rig.

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>>83810241
>That's Clark. When does SUPERMAN the fucking pinnacle of heroism and altruism go out of his way to save anyone?
oh. my. god.

Autism and memes aside Clark kind of comes off as more competent and effective out of costume when he's supposed to be on the down low than after he's publicly unveiled and living up to his potential.

>>83811722

It's not that he was never into Superhero comics. It's that the first comics he read were Heavy Metal comics and when he was shown Superhero comics he didn't get them until he read things like The Dark Knight Returns.

It's clear from both Man of Steel and Batman v Superman that Snyder does like superheroes he just has his own take on them which not everyone agrees with.

And honestly I think the reason why most people don't like Snyder's take on Superheroes is because a HUGE amount of people only really got to know who some superheroes were through the MCU.

No one gave half a shit about Iron Man until the MCU, now he's suddenly a big character.

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>>83812089

>>83812366
Sure, but I know Batman and Superman and Snyder clearly doesn't.

>>83812089
>Kills Zod. That's 7 Billion people again.

Batman, Flash, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman could together easily take Zod.

Though I'm not disagreeing that putting down Zod didn't save a fuckton of people.

>>83812427
Actually his movies prove he knows them better than clearly a large amount of people right in this very thread

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>>83812412

>>83812427

No, you have your own headcanon for Batman and Superman which is different from my headcanon for Batman and Superman. Which is different from Grant Morrison's, and Frank Miller's, and Mark Waid's, etc.

Most moviegoers (as opposed to comic book readers) don't have their own head canon. People are confident that Rachel Daws is a character who holds significance in Batman's life because that's Christopher Nolan's headcanon, and also believe Bane is a member of the League of Assassins which is also wrong, and those same people think the League of Assassins is called the League of Shadows.

Comic book readers might up a small percentage of people who go to see the movies.

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>>83797423
>>After the senate explosion, victims are being treated on the steps outside. Superman is flying victims out of the wreckage. He’s helping. He’s saving people. He sees all the damaged caused, of the dead bodies and blames himself. He locks eyes with Lois, and flies away.

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>Everyone hates DCAU Superman for showing understandable human emotions
>Everyone hates MoS Superman for showing understandable human emotions
Why is the only acceptable Superman Messiahman?

>>83812465
Wow is modern morality actually this twisted holy fuck.

>>83812465
so faced with a situation where that Superman has no choice but to kill, he would leave that whole universe to die.

Gotcha.

Shit writing in that panel m8.

>>83812366
Even if I agree with your premise that's still not a great look. Frank Miller and TDKR are hardly representative of the genre.

I'll give you credit though, you blame the MCU instead of the Donner movies. That's a step forward. Maybe after Justice League comes out you'll be able to entertain the notion that maybe, just maybe, the reason people don't like Snyder's take on superheroes is that said take comes off as an overly cynical deconstructions that rely on hamfisted symbolism rather than character substance and that they're great at generating darkness induced audience apathy.

>>83812592
he would find another way

go away with your paladin traps

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>>83812465
Should have told himself that earlier.

What was he supposed to do anyway? Zod had gone completely berserk and was hellbent on eradicating all humans. What would you do in Superman's situation when dealing with a guy who's just as strong as you and has absolutely nothing to lose?

>>83812576
The irony being that MoS and BvS are a in large part a deconstruction of the idea of Superman being a Messiah by showing what effect this worship has on him.

These people with their illogical worship of what they perceive as their "perfect" Superman are in fact doing nothing but harming the character.

>>83812576
>>Everyone hates DCAU Superman for showing understandable human emotions
Nobody is going to argue in good faith when you make up such obvious bullshit, bro.

>>83812696
Have you ever been in a JLU thread? All everyone does is bitch about how grouchy Superman is.

>>83812668
Be in a better written movie.
Again, the problem isn't that Clark kills. The problem is that he was painted into that corner in the first place. They didn't go "Clark killing Zod is the logical end of this scene". They went, by the director's own admission "We want Clark to kill Zod! How can we do it?" Even when the best writer in the room told them not to.

>>83812668
Gouge his eyes out and paralyze him from the neck down

or write a better plot

>>83812656
That's comic Superman who's a god the whole point of Snyder Superman is one who tries to be morally pure like comic on but literally can't because he's not strong enough

>>83812668
...Why didn't the kryptonite effect Supes?

>>83812751
I'm just gonna test something for my own edification because at this point I'm honestly wondering if the word "context" is being filtered given how little you guys seem to grasp the concept of it.

>>83812752
>>83812754
So basically keep writing un-challenging stories that continue to perpetuate their own twisted moral fabric

>>83812656
>he would find another way
What message does that send to humans? We can't find a perfect way in the real world. We can find a better way, but this is just garbage.

>>83812752
There were even so many better ways to have built up to that scene. Imagine if Zod and Clark had actually bonded over Clark finally finding some Kryptonians, people of his own kind. And now he's forced to kill the last of his own, someone he thought could have been a true friend or brother.

Instead it's completely awkwardly set up and forced and then Clark and Lois kiss with no build up.

>>83812040
>Holy shit, at this level of straight up fucking stupidity.
>Ignore the autism meme. This is level red retardation.
>Holy fuck.

Broheim, at some point you're going to have to acknowledge the bias is on your part.

>>83812615

Oh there's definitely people that are pinning for a Donner versions of Superman. I personally didn't like Donner's take on Superman, but that doesn't mean I think everyone who does enjoy the Donner Superman is a tool.

I'm saying most of the audience going to see these films have seen probably Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy and MCU films, and that's there entire knowledge of Superheroes.

They hear about Superman and they have vague recollections of a character based on TV shows and possibly Donner movies as a kid and think that is the ONLY way Superman can be. When really it's just them wanting an MCU film but with the DC character because that's what people think Superheroes should be.

And I'm not saying Superheroes can't be like they are in the MCU but that isn't the only way Superheroes can be.

I personally really enjoyed Batman v Superman and it's probably my favorite superhero film (though I'd say the best is still The Dark Knight). And if people don't like Snyder's take on superheroes that's totally fine, but people make up things and post bullshit because they just want their cake and to eat it too.

I read an interesting article on rabid fandom and how terrible it is, and that's basically what it is.

>not muh...

Fuck off. No one owns the characters and people can portray them how they want.

>>83812941
The bias is on my part when people literally are lying about what happens in the film?

Oh ok.

>>83812834
What was the challenge, exactly?
Villains dying at the end of their movies is the standard, no the deviation. All Snyder did was make Superman into get another generic angsty action "hero".

>>83812870
that we should be inspired by Superman never giving up and trying his best to solve things in not simple ways and follow him on this path

maybe you should stick to Marvel comics where the solution is always killing, murder or some other kind of violence and leave the universe built around "hope" to people that like it

>>83812953
>post bullshit because they just want their cake and to eat it too.
Funny because that seems to be consistently the defense of the Snyderverse
>Judge the movie on its own merits!
>Here's nine images that show all the esoteric references you need to know in order to get how brilliant the movie is!
>Superman and Batman are the most well known characters ever! That don't have to explain stuff! Spoonfeeding!
>NOT MUH SUPERMAN IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DIFFERENT.

You dickbags keep contradicting your own arguments. Its funny.

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>>83812576
>>Everyone hates MoS Superman for showing understandable human emotions

A god prone to childish tantrums is not a likable protagonist.

We're supposed to laugh when Superman destroys a trucker's rig in MoS. It's played as a joke.

Because you see, instead of just decking a trucker for groping a waitress, Superman destroys his livelihood in what can only be described as an act of God.

But of course, in a movie absolutely dripping with ominous warnings about Superman exposing himself and the danger of that, Superman suffers no consequences whatsoever.

>>83812870
>We can't find a perfect way in the real world.
Why not?

>>83812668
>What was he supposed to do anyway? Zod had gone completely berserk and was hellbent on eradicating all humans. What would you do in Superman's situation when dealing with a guy who's just as strong as you and has absolutely nothing to lose?

Not do it five minutes before the movie ends after the annihilation of several blocks of Metropolis and playing everything off as a happy victory.

But yay, Clark joined the Daily Planet despite having no journalistic credentials whatsoever! That means everything is okay!

>>83812834
>continue to perpetuate their own twisted moral fabric

Nobody asked me if I wanted a post-modern deconstruction of Superman that was also badly written.

>>83813053

>We're supposed to laugh when Superman destroys a trucker's rig in MoS. It's played as a joke.

I actually didn't think so. The audience could laugh at it, but I thought it was a pretty sad scene actually. Clark is forced into such a corner that he's left venting his anger at other people's property - something he clearly doesn't want to do.

>>83813110
The denouement really damages the movie.

>>83813015
It's false hope though. Also company wars shit really I was just asking how this was a moral position to take.

Our entire world is based on violence, and murder. The rule of law, the police, the government, all built on the back of violence and killing. The internet and nearly every other human advancement is due to death and destruction. How do you live on this planet?

I just wonder if Superman isn't very inspiring, because you can't be perfect. So, what should us imperfect beings do strive for the best solution we can think of, or just let someone enact their worse one? Be content with evil because we cannot be pure, or fight for a slightly better world. Those questions are more relevant in my opinion.

>>83812972

When the majority of an audience interpret a movie one way, then it is the failure of the director to convey his story with greater transparency.

So yes, normal people don't analyse films frame-by-frame or watch deleted scenes and read cast interviews to fill in the gaps of bad storytelling.

>>83813150
>Clark is forced into such a corner that he's left venting his anger at other people's propert
He's not though. He's forced by bad writing.
Much like the tornado scene, the diner scene is one of those times where Clark could have acted in the capacity of regular baseline human that's built like Henry Cavill without raising an iota of suspicion. But he doesn't, because the movie says he can't. So what he ends up doing instead is infinitely dumber.

>>83813015
>maybe you should stick to Marvel comics where the solution is always killing, murder or some other kind of violence and leave the universe built around "hope" to people that like it

My favorite part in Winter Soldier is when Steve snaps Bucky's neck in horror at what his friend has become.

>>83813197
>I just wonder if Superman isn't very inspiring, because you can't be perfect.
It's not about the destination you cynical child. It's about the journey.

>>83813150
>I actually didn't think so.

It's paced as a joke.

>The audience could laugh at it, but I thought it was a pretty sad scene actually.

It's played as a joke. A superdickery joke, but a joke.

Clark is forced into such a corner that he's left venting his anger at other people's property - something he clearly doesn't want to do.

IT'S A JOKE. IT'S PLAYED AS A FUCKING JOKE.

SETUP. PUNCHLINE. JOKE. ROLL ON SNARE DRUM. EVERYBODY LAUGH.

>>83812444
Flash didn't exist and may not have had his powers, Batman was retired, Wonder Woman didn't care about people (though she may have helped once she realized it would kill Amazons too), same with Aquaman. Now that would be a cool movie, though. Batman comes out of retirement and becomes the tactician of the group, Aquaman deals the finishing blow with the trident. Still, it would have been at the cost of many more lives because it would take a while before Aquaman and Wonder Woman realized what was going on.

>>83813206
>Superman doesn't save anyone

>Multiple scenes devoted to him doing just that.

Its ignorance and stupidity, if not outright lying to depict the film in a false light.

It has nothing to do with a failure to convey anything when the material is presented at complete face value, nor does it have anything to with "analyzing frame by frame". This is strictly an audience problem.

And majority interpretation is literally meaningless.

>>83813228
>Much like the tornado scene, the diner scene is one of those times where Clark could have acted in the capacity of regular baseline human that's built like Henry Cavill without raising an iota of suspicion. But he doesn't, because the movie says he can't. So what he ends up doing instead is infinitely dumber.

I don't think the way he's written in this scene is necessarily bad (unlike the tornado scene). Superman doesn't get into fights - especially not this Clark who at this point is so uncertain about what he should be doing with his powers that he if anything overly averse to violence. To me, his destroying the truck is like a guy punching a wall out of anger. The scene feels sad to me because Clark is so conflicted over his powers and identity that he ends up doing dumb shit like this, when you know he could be performing miracles and saving lives.

But that's just my interpretation. Again, I stand by my stance that the movie is a bundle of good ideas executed HORRENDOUSLY.

>>83813323
>And majority interpretation is literally meaningless.

How else are we to form a consensus on anything?