Rebirth Discussion

>>83002961
Seeing this cover I come to realize that it looks like MK Armageddon intro, or at least that's the feeling I get

>Finding a way to get Kori's ass on the cover
What madmen.

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so is manhattan going to be a one off thing or is johns actually going to go balls to the walls and being everyone else in?

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>no JSA pics

>>83003204
Honestly it could be either. I think the way the spoilers describe it that it would be fine just leaving it there. We'll see though.

So why is unmarked spoilers allowed all over /co/?
Thanks for not mentioning any of it in this OP though.

>>83003204
Only Manhattan probably

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>>83003292

>Rise of the Seven Seas never

>>83003292
OH DAMN

>>83003292
C U T E
U
T
E

>>83003331
>Johns promised it with Abnett
>was working on something with Fabok and Reis

fucking movies

>>83003230
The way it ends implies that we're going to be seeing a lot more of Watchmen. Hell if that wasn't the biggest cocktease in recent memory.

>Those spoilers

Not sure if want?

>>83003292

This made me so happy. As did the Canary page. Bet that pissed Twitter off.

I love the way this sounds. I kind of hope they won't do much with Manhattan though, and Just use him as a plot device. Anything more and it just looks mean spirited to me.

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>>83003241

>return of best OTP

Finally.

>>83003331
The rebirth preview stuff said RotSS is getting set up post Rebirth, so I'm pumped

>>83003241
The narrator should tell them tune into Felicity and Friends Wednesday nights on the CW!

So Dr Manhattan is the hand on the cover?

>>83003477
That was said before Johns got the promotion though. Recent stuff has said he won't be writing comics for the time being. Whether that means no collaborations at all though is to be seen.

>>83003292
Didio and his bullshit no marriages edict btfo

>>83003477

Haven't they been promising RotSS since the end of that big Aquaman arc in Justice League?

>>83003490
>Felicity and Olicity fans who mad got at that Percy tweet
I wanna know how many angry tweets he'll get when GA starts up and he and Dinah start fucking and being all lovey dovey

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What a way to leave the comics side of DC


Master

>>83003651
I'm really glad it seems like he left on a strong note. I think the new 52 really did get him down and it affected his output.

>>83003622

Let them cry. I didn't mind Felicity until this season; their relationship has ruined the show and now Dinah's dead, so we can't get Black Canary/Green Arrow.

>>83003204
Johns is a dumb whore that is doing exactly what is expected from a corporate bitch. Quick bucks.


I guess that since Johns has never done anything slightly original and will never ever make a "sacred cow" Graphic novel he feels that is ok to mess around with watchmen.

DC already had MONARCH, new53 Captain Marvel and Captain Allen. 1 of them literally had done this kind of shit before, the other can and the third is literally from Morrison's watchmen. So instead of continue any of those 3 ideas, Johns wanted to make the executives happy, just like he did when they hired him to reboot the universe the last time.

>>83003682

Stuff he set up got fucked over so l imagine he wasn't happy about it.

Manhattan is just as much an allegory for Snyder as it is Watchmen long standing influence.

>>83003410
Nah. If they cop out after this, it'll show that they caved to pressure and don't have the balls to go all the way with the meta statement Rebirth is trying to make.

Just go the full nine yards. Worst that could happen is something forgettable like Before Watchmen, which hardly ruined the source material.

>>83003316
It was Johns

>>83003784
Johns is both Barry and Wally in this scene. He did nothing wrong, it was editorial.

I like how the 'fix' to the nu52 is literally a deus ex machina.

>>83003747
>Stuff he set up got fucked over

And he fucked over pretty much EVERY SINGLE WRITER he has had contact with. From Gaiman to Morrison to Azzarello, from Waid to Loebdell. How is that a defense?

>>83003863
>deus ex machina
explain

>>83003735
People who act like Watchmen is sacred are retarded.

>>83003877

You okay? Wanna talk about it champ?

>>83003851
He is the editorial, he is an executive. And he along with Lee were the ones that formulated the new52 status quo. If he wasnt into it he could had left or just let someone else write the book. He has had a bigger tittle than LEE and DIDIO since he is CCO.

>>83003893

Deus Ex Machina, as it was originally used in the Greek tragedies, involved the gods literally reaching into the story and resolving conflicts. That's what they're doing here with Dr. Manhattan.

>>83003935
And people that want selfcontained shit in the multiverse are casuals.

>>83003946
How can anyone defend Johns after how much he has shat on other writters?

>>83003935

It's not sacred, but it has no business being anything other than what it is, a really good, self-contained story with no connections to anything else.

>>83003700
Why would they get mad in the first place. I doubt any of them would get into comics.

>>83003241
>>83003316
Thank God.

This has always been the most grating part of the New 52 for me.
Nobody seems to know each other, and the universe has felt so small and lame.

>>83003951
>who is Diane Nelson

Johns never would have gotten rid of the JSA on his own volition nor the Rebirth Flash run he had been seeding pieces of for years. Don't be delusional just because you don't like him.

>>83003951
He already turned in his Flashpoint script when they hijacked it with the New52. The thing was supposed to be a minor crossover event like his GL stuff.

Editorial's the one who turned it into this big messy uncoordinated reboot because there was a sales emergency and the financial heads were talking about defaulting into just reprinting, which is basically death for a comic company.

>>83003951

>Ignoring that Bob Harris and WB execs above DC itself were the ones who forced the reboot.

>>83004031
>ohns never would have gotten rid of the JSA on his own
I agree, and what did he do? Do it anyway, he is a corporate bitch. Nothing more.

Isn't there a Titans Solicit that mentions them going against what took time away from the universe?

>>83004010
Why not?

It's not like it's going to ruin the original story.

>>83004031

>Rebirth flash

"barry allen made me the flash"

>>83004048
Harras wasnt above Johns paygrade. Johns was the

>>83003951
>And he along with Lee were the ones that formulated the new52 status quo.
>New 52 ruined his GL run
Yeah nah

>>83003211
>damian got his tooth back

One job

>>83004065

Be didn't have much of a choice. Hell at the time it was rumored he fucked off and got his name slapped on it.

Especially Justice League at first because it reads like a Lee story.

>>83004084
TITANS #2
Written by DAN ABNETT • Art and cover by BRETT BOOTH and NORM RAPMUND • Variant cover by MIKE CHOI
Retailers: This issue will ship with two covers. Please see the order form for details.
“Remember the Titans” part two! As the Titans prepare to do the unthinkable in order to defeat the intergalactic demon that stole time itself from the
DC Universe, enter the Fearsome Five! But are the sinister quintet acting of their own accord…or are greater forces at work?
On sale AUGUST 24 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T

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>>83003316
kek

>>83004119
That pretty much tells more about how big of a hypocrite the guy is. Also he has no problem retconing others.

>>83004191
Ok he sucks. What do you want here man?

>>83004112

Harris pushed Marvel into a reboot. He and Nealson wanted it and everyone else got dragged down into it.

>>83004088

Because it doesn't need to. It's like writing a sequel or a prequel to Hamlet. There's no reason for any of that to exist, and shows serious creative bankruptcies on the part of the writers.

>>83004004
>after how much he has shat on other writters?

He never shat on anything I didn't agree deserved to be shat on.

>>83004152
>Be didn't have much of a choice

Actually he had.
He could just leave the book after that. It's called integrity.

>>83004239
No fiction "needs" to exist.

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>>83004275

And get a Guggenheim doing it? Johns can take it.

>>83004152
>Especially Justice League at first because it reads like a Lee story.

It doesnt,lt reads like the same crap Darkseid War is. Everything has been shit.

>>83004298
please let us forget

>>83004280

Of course it doesn't. But good fiction would be nice.

>>83004112
>Harras wasnt above Johns paygrade

Why do you keep talking like you know how it worked when there's a mountain of actual evidence that you're wrong?

Geoff didn't want the Nu52, he didn't create the Nu52, stop trying to push this weird meme. What would it even accomplish, you think you're going to bury his e-rep or something?

>>83004275

And do what? He had an exclusivity contract and was DCs money maker. You don't think blackmail, legal threat, and fear of blacklisting doesn't keep people like him in place?

>>83003773
I'm all for meta, but it's not like you can lay all the blame at watchmen' feet. Personally I think death in the family was the start of the edge lord rising.

So is Rebirth another reboot? Or retcon or something in between?

>>83004010
>it has no business being anything other than what it is, a really good, self-contained story with no connections to anything else

That's not what it was and you know it. It may not have been intended to be a huge influence on the entire industry, but it was, and the mistakes need to be addressed.

What other way could you go? Blame darkness and cynicism on Frank Miller instead? No character in DKR has the power to change a universe's continuity. Dr. Manhattan works for that role.

>>83004191
In what way does that make him a hypocrite

>>83004160
Hmm.

"Intergalactic Demon" doesn't sound like Manhatten, but the thought of the Titans trying to do anything to him is hilarious as hell.

>>83004380
I think he's just shitposting for the sake of being contrarian. It's weird though, he uses blatant lies as if Johns never did anything worth legitimately criticizing.

>>83004239
No work has any more right to exist than any other.

There didn't "need" to be a bleak crossover of old Charlton Comics characters.

>>83004432
A retcon. Like GL Rebirth and Flash Rebirth but for the whole DCU.

>>83004444
The stealing time sounds like him but the intergalactic demon sounds more like whatever it was they fought in Titans Hunt (I only skimmed the last issue though so I'm not sure what that was).

>>83004439
Anyway Miller has already shat on TDKR with TDKSA and ASBAR so Johns wouldn't be the first to do it in a book.

>>83004239
>putting a flawed, dated story like Watchmen on the level of Hamlet

The Dark Knight Returns didn't need a sequel either; it got two. Other comics that have been just as influential as Watchmen have sequel stories, some bad, some good, but they never terrible enough to ruin the original.

It isn't a holy grail. It's a comic with imperfections like any other. For all anyone knows, the end result could be great.

>>83004004
If anything people who think the multiverse is limited to 52 or that there are stories that are non canonical within the real multiverse are the true casuals.

>>83004432
It's an excuse to ditch New 52 stuff that didn't work and bring back Post-Crisis stuff that did.
It's the new Zero Hour

>>83004439
>What other way could you go? Blame darkness and cynicism on Frank Miller instead? No character in DKR has the power to change a universe's continuity. Dr. Manhattan works for that role.

Also using Watchmen allows Johns to jab at Zack Snyder for fucking up the movies.

>>83004432
The difference of two cubes? It's an explanation... I'd call it a retcon though.

>>83004380
>Geoff didn't want the Nu52,
True
>he didn't create the Nu52
He did.
He didnt came out with the idea, but he was the guy that enforced it.

>>83004550
>Also using Watchmen allows Johns to jab at Zack Snyder for fucking up the movies.

This is part of why it's brilliant. It's a double diss.

>>83004487
>>83004540
Thanks guys. Been out of the comic loop for awhile and just saw a couple comic panels and didn't want to assume the worst

>>83004432
It's not a reboot... and it never was.

>>83002961
I haven't dared to read the full context behind it, but manhattan seems pretty tame desu. i mean, the anti Monitor and Mr Mind have done the same thing in a much grander scale. If they want to play him as "the biggest threat the dc multiverse has ever faced" then they would need to severely enhace him.

>>83004403
They've attacked Death in the Family, Killing Joke and Year One dozens of times, though. Dark Knight Returns is practically a joke now too. Watchmen is really the only big property of theirs they've yet to really deconstruct/reconstruct because everyone's too afraid to touch it bc of Old Man Moore's dissenting opinions, or they have absolutely no idea what direction they can even take it in.

This was probably the best way they could have approached it IMO.

So:

Jon Samuel Clark was born in Convergence, which features New 52 Superman in his New 52 uni either on Telos or watching with the Oracle, so it takes place approximately, at least, one (maybe even two or three) years post the start of Morrison's Action run, where Clark is sitting around with Jimmy and hasn't yet ordered his S-Shield Tees.

So Pre-Flashpoint Clark knocks up the wife in that year, kid is born and is approximately 5-7 during JL Origin as shown in Lois & Clark #1, which also ages him 5 years to presumably bring the title into "REAL TIME."

So Convergence happened two years before Morrison's Action run? This is just like Dick, Jason and Tim were Robin in the five years before 2011 and Demon Spawn was birthed sometime BEFORE that kinda BS?

If someone thinks they understand this, please respond. And if you're the person who's been posting "you're thinking more about this than DC" -- yes, I suspect that's true in many instance, especially with Berganza as group editor. Still, inquiring minds wanna know.

>>83004577
Is the demarcation of creation the actual script writing or the idea itself? I wouldn't say he created it since it wasn't his idea. Certainly debatable though. Blaming him for some execution seems fine but not for its existence.

>>83004610
>>83004550
I think you guys are reading way too much into it, this issue was probably written before Batman v Superman proved to be a massive dissapointment, there's no way Johns thought about this immediatly after everyone went fanboy rage on the movie for being so bleak and depressing

>>83004577
>but he was the guy that enforced it

That statement doesn't make sense. What the fuck is an enforcer in the context of writing comics? Geoff's OWN books IGNORED that the reboot happened and continued planned plots from pre-Flashpoint, and he didn't at the time have ANY editorial power over other people's books.

You don't understand what a "Chief Creative Officer" does. Johns' desk job at the time Nu52 was done didn't have anything to do with the comics, he was the official creative consultant to the ADAPTATIONS. He gave advice to the TV and movie people, which they could choose to ignore if they wanted the same fucking way Ed Boon and John Tobias were consultants on both Mortal Kombat movies.

And now his job has been upgraded from "Zack Snyder doesn't have to listen to my advice" to "Zack Snyder maybe does have to listen to my advice?"

>>83004550
>Johns to jab at Zack Snyder for fucking up the movies.

The movies he is a PRODUCTOR of.
The movies he was part of as CCO and as a consultant.

The same movies that are using his origin of flash and his origin of cyborg and his Darkseid, the same movie universe where he glady accepted being a writer of the Batman movie.

>>83004647
Manhatten ( and New 52 Captain Atom, but it'll never come up again) is written as basically omnipotent now.

He fucked off to space and became a god.

>>83004610

Snyder only got his job because of how faithful people claim Watchmen is.

The New52 was to make things like the movies before they were out. How many of those ideas were movie suits?

>>83004550
I agree with this, but Snyder can't take all the blame. That honor goes to Nolan for setting the gold "muh grimdark realism" standard.

>>83003188

>DC Comics presents
>We Fucked Up
>The apology: Chapter 1

This does not feel like legit comicbook writing.

>>83004715
Johns has been behind the scenes on BvS. He was there for Man of Steel too. He KNOWS Zack is a fucking cynical dickbag who doesn't get Superman. He knew it before anyone did.

>>83004685
im trying to withhold judgement. Idk. Most of the rebirth stuff sounds good, so as long as Manhattan doesn't become the new anti monitor I'll be fine.

>>83004728

You so know how Nolan and Snyder fought until Nolan gave up right? He also was only just now given real power over the movies.

And they are not using his Darkseid. Snyder wanted angel demon motiff.

>>83004782
Yeah it's Nolan's fault he made good movies with a darker tone and DC/WB reacted with EVERYTHING MUST BE DARK

>>83004728
I want you to describe to me what you think a "producer" actually does on a movie.

>>83004715
You're assuming that he wasn't unhappy during the entire process of the movie being done though even before reception. I mean you look at a guy like Waid who can openly shit on stuff like MoS and Johns was friends with him too. He's just publicly a "grin and bear it" guy normally. That's actually the only reason it's not really believable; Johns isn't quite the one to go off like this. But with Wally literally narrating and pointing out shit that no one likes it seems like Geoff let loose here. I can't read it any other way.

>>83004782
It's Nolan's fault that Snyder makes bad movies and WB lets him?

>>83004687
The place where Brainiac had all those bottled cities was outside space and time. None of that is taken into account.

>>83004824
It's the same situation Watchmen has been put in, though. It didn't start out intending to be a game changer, but that's exactly what it is and people should acknowledge the negative impact it's had on the industry along with the positive.

>>83004577
No he wasn't. Editorial forced Flashpoint into a reboot, he never wanted it. Johns is nothing if not a giant nostalgiafag. The New 52 goes against everything he loved about DC when he started writing.

>>83004868
>He's just publicly a "grin and bear it" guy normally.

It's called keeping your job.

Waid can say whatever the fuck he wants, he ain't working for DC right now. Geoff has to shill on TV if he wants to get into a place where he can make real change.

>>83004793
It's telling that one of the first quotes we got from Johns after he got the movie job was

>"I think people make a mistake when they say, 'Superman's not relatable because he's so powerful,'' he added. "I'm like, 'Are you kidding me? He's a farmboy from Kansas who moves to the city and just wants to do the best he can with what he's got.' That's the most relatable character in the world."

I guarantee he's been pissed forever on this shit

>>83004515
>The Dark Knight Returns didn't need a sequel either; it got two.

And they were both shit. You're just proving his point.

Is there any Legion of Super-Heroes stuff in the making?

>>83004969
Yeah, that's gotta be quoting a conversation he's had with Zack at some point.

>>83004922
I'm really glad the entire point of Rebirth is bringing back the legacies and friendships and shit.
That stuff was the heart of the DCU.

>>83004995
There's a reference in the one-shot but no run announced yet.

>>83004995
Not atm, stay tuned for the next reboot.

>>83004171
>Wally, I...

>>83004995
He named dropped them at the Rebirth Q&A a few months ago and a LOSH member is in the Rebirth oneshot

>>83005049
>stay tuned for the next reboot.
...

>>83004995
They said there was. It disappeared by the time art got put out. Now they're saying it and USA are coming soon. I want King on legion.

>>83004995
A Girl is seen wearing a Legion ring in the one-shot and Johns mentioned them as one of the groups coming back soon(along with JSA, New Gods and Shazam family), but nothing's been really announced.

>>83004986
>implying TDKR wasn't already shit

>>83004870

Nolan is in charge.

He disagrees with Snyder and Snyder no joke just ignores it and keeps suggesting it until Nolan gives up.

>>83005089
I've still got my fingers crossed for Parker.

>>83005089
USA *jsa.. Damn autocorrect

>>83004922
>Johns is nothing if not a giant nostalgiafag

A nostalgia fag that just gave us 3 jokers, since he never liked batman he doesnt give a shit,
a NOSTALGIAFAG THAT NEVER TOUCHED the perez run of wonder woman until 2014
a nostalgiafag that turned the anti-monitor into a new god hat missed killing with his own hands
A nostalgiafag that changed the name of captain marvel and blocked other writters from working with the characters.

He is a nostalgiafag from his OWN headcanon.
He is a fan of himself.

>>83004793
>>83004868
Still, the analogy doesn't really work for me. Manhattan is not a Snyder creation, and he isn't responsible for fucking up DC in the comics.

>>83005145
I'd be perfectly happy with that too.

The one thing the spoilers didn't reveal is who dies.

>>83003399

It could either be really interesting or really shit, and unfortunately as we've seen with Darkseid War, Johns kind of sucks at massive cosmic event shit.

>>83005274
It revealed one person's death...

>>83005164
>nostalgia fag that just gave us 3 jokers,
Yes, one from each era
>nostalgiafag that changed the name of captain marvel and blocked
Why would anyone change the name, I wonder

>>83005274
I think it's just Pandora

>>83005321

And not a single fuck was given.

>>83005164
3 Jokers is a perfect explanation for how bullshit the Joker is. Why would you have a problem with that? It even allows him to have died, for the assholes who are like "why doesn't Batman just kill him?"

>>83005274
Pandora dies
New52 Superman dies in Superman #52

>>83005321
Who gives a shit? Why even keep that a secret?

So who would you want for a future JSA book?

My vote is on Jeff Parker and Evan Shaner

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>>83005274
Pandora

>>83005321
Ty for spoiler tags. My device makes it difficult.

>>83005351
And New52 Superman later on

>>83005175
The Snyder relation is just a bonus. Watchmen does work as a metaphor for the way graphic novel sensibilities infected the all-ages material after the 80's.

>>83003951
John's title has nothing specific to do with the comic books. Presumably if the company is well-run, his opinions should be taken into account, but it doesn't seem like it does. It seems like the people who are group editors get more say and someone has to fight them to do something different with anyone under their 'group' purview.

John jobs as COO is simply to work on the synergy - e.g. working on the live action, TV or Film, and help that along.

Lee and DiDio would have more say as Co-Publishers, over Harras, and all five of them report to Diana I-Know-Nothing-About-My-Industry Nelson.

>>83004221
Nelson.

But yes, she's a marketing and promotion person, not a comic book person, by her own admission.

>>83004112
>>83004048

Harras was/is a hack. And yes, he's NOT above John's - he's more in charge of editorial than Johns is, but in a flow chart, he's not Johns' superior or supervisor or anything like that, and neither is Johns over Harras.

>>83005370
Parker yes, Shaner no.

Because I'm trying to convince myself that Future Quest will last.

>>83005310
>>nostalgia fag that just gave us 3 jokers,

And making batman look like shit, Johns never touched a Batman comic so he doesnt care about the Joker, Morrison gave us a in-canon reason why the joker changes so much almost 30 years ago, and before that it wasnt needed. They could had even go with the "emperor joker" created clones of himself route. But no. Let's better make the world's greatest detective into a jackass that can bother to take blood samples.

>Why would anyone change the name, I wonder

To make the executives happy.Same reason he got rid of the gods, to not make Americans mad if they go and watch the potential movie ;)

>>83005370

Abnett saved Earth 2 from its lowest point, and wrote the JSA Convergence issues, but he's on like four other books right now.

Steve Orlando might be good too, he at least does research for his shit.

Failing that, there's always Johns-lite Sterling Gates.

>>83005370
Orlando was tweeting about them days ago and there was this exchange a while back too: https://twitter.com/geoffjohns/status/567368235398356992

So, let me get this correct, Doc Man. created the DCU? So does that mean he also created the multiverse?

>>83005443

Take heart, anon. I just went to my LCS today to find that it sold out. Seems to be generating a lot of positive buzz.

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Do they really think getting all meta talking a fans view point as a monologue is good writing. I was fine with the new 52. It. Was time to move past 75 years of a secound act. And begin act one. Not get cold feet and bring act two back to the old act two

>>83005370
I would like the JSA book to have somewhat consistent art so no Shaner

He's already off Future Quest by #4

>>83005443
I would really like someone with a retro vibe art style like Shaner

>>83005478
>Orlando calls him sir
Dare I write this fanfic about real writers?

>>83005321
does she get asploded, Manhattan-style?

>>83005362
The joker died 2 in his first 3 appearences. The explanation for that was always the same: he refuses to die

>>83005488
He made the changes that turned Post-Crisis into Post-Flashpoint

>>83005488
"created the DCU" is just a theory. The more likely is that he tampered with history that already existed.

>>83005488

Infinite Crisis/52 remade the local Multiverse cluster. Whatever Manhatten did was either after that point, or he's been covertly guiding the development of it since around COIE (Watchmen was what, 1986?)

>>83005496
I sure hope so and it's not just your LCS got two and a half copies

>>83005528
How about Chiang? He did that cool Alan Scott variabt for Batman

>>83005466

He had nothing to do with the name change past being the one who used it. It was more than a marketing choice too.

>>83005466
>And making batman look like shit, Johns never touched a Batman comic so he doesnt care about the Joker, Morrison gave us a in-canon reason why the joker changes so much almost 30 years ago, and before that it wasnt needed. They could had even go with the "emperor joker" created clones of himself route. But no. Let's better make the world's greatest detective into a jackass that can bother to take blood samples.
So you read the story and saw that it's three individuals and not a mixture of PreCrisis, Post Crisis, and New 52 Joker?

>o make the executives happy.Same reason he got rid of the gods, to not make Americans mad if they go and watch the potential movie
Or maybe it's because Marvel owns the right to the Captain Marvel title

>>83005565

Nope, Third Eye usually stocks pretty deep.

>>83005547
That's not an explanation.

An explanation is "How come this goofy harmless prankster in the Silver Age suddenly became dark and violent? How come in Snyder's run he treated Harley like a stranger? Why doesn't someone take the most prolific serial killer of all time out behind the shed and put him down?

They did. He keeps getting replaced."

>>83005516
That probably sounded really good in your head.

>>83005089
johns on legion wouldn't be so bad either, everything legion related he wrote was pretty good. well except maybe for the end of legion of 3 worlds...
or abnett, his legion stuff was very enjoyable and the hypernaturals were basically a continuation of that.

>>83005590
>>83005590
>He had nothing to do with the name change

And yet he changed the name of the character and the character EVEN before new52. He was using the Captain Thunder name, the name that DC almost used in 1974

>>83005526
That sucks. Out of all the Hannah barbera books future quest and (shudder) new scooby probably have the most staying power. I hope it does well, I'm getting sick of this ongoing-mini series shuffle DC has been doing. Vote Corndog girl a second term /co/

Is there going to be a direct follow up? A Rebirth 2? Or are we going to have to follow every new ongoing that comes out to get the full story?

>>83004917
I understand that. So the year is a second.

I'm still trying to place Clark, Lois and Jon, and based on the Jurgen's mini, Jon should be between 5-10 (maybe slightly older) meaning they arrived to NOW/Real Time in the DC Universe sometime before the actual Flashpoint, if Clark was at Justice League #1, as pictured in Lois & Clark and Jon was already born, etc. Especially given that they went off to save the multiverse AND then ended up here.

But thanks for responding.

>>83005697
Captain Thunder was literally a different character

>>83005693
>>hypernaturals.
Anon you've been reading my dream journal again...

>>83005697
Captain Thunder is a better name than just giving Billy the wizard's name.

Either way, they've been dealing with awkward workarounds for the fact that they don't own the name "Captain Marvel" for years. A change was inevitable and your salt over it is irrational.

>>83002961
I don't really get it, if New 52 universe is just Pre-Flashpoint but with time and memories fucked up, then what the fuck were all those bottled cities in Convergence?

Who was New 52 Superman?

Who is Convergence Parallax?

Why are there two Booster Golds and the one from the Pre-Flashpoint universe became Waverider?

>>83005735
There were rumors of a Johns, Fabok, Reis book sprouting out of this that was supposed to build up toward the next event in the long run but with Johns doing movie shit I haven't seen anything about what it means for that. He was supposedly working closely with King and Snyder on the long term planning stuff so it's possible they could just do it without him I guess.

>>83005647
>An explanation is "How come this goofy harmless scientist in the Silver Age suddenly became dark and violent? How come in in loeb's run heis the president? Why would someone take the most prolific serial killer of all time and let him join the Justice League.

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This vintage meme is from 2009

/co/ how does it feel

>>83005794
Convergence bottled them before (from a reader perspective not character-wise) the timeline changed

>>83005785
>Captain Thunder is a better name than just giving Billy the wizard's name.
I agree. In fact most fans would had agreed to that,

>>83005762
No more different than Billy Johnson before it was rescued in the one shot.

>>83005822
Like Hypercrisis is love

>>83005164
>A nostalgiafag that changed the name of captain marvel and blocked other writters from working with the characters.

Please just go read some Wikipedia, since you obviously don't read any actual comic books. Captain Marvel hasn't really been called that since the last time he had an ongoing, well before 2011.

>he is a fan of himself

But yes, I can get behind that when he works with people to get stuff adapted, he does push his own ideas, which is why we got Justice League Flashpoint/War/Throne of Atlantis instead of any other interesting graphic novels, of which there are tons, adapted in animation, and why Nora is dead in The Flash, among other JOHNSIAN touches to the WB adaptations.

>>83005810
Superman canon wasn't preserved the way Batman canon was after CoIE, Lexcorp Lex was never Silver Age Lex.

The comparison doesn't make sense, his personality's been pretty goddamn consistent from the 80's to now.

>>83005667
Yeah it did. Still easier to follow then rebirth.

>>83005772
s-sorry

>>83005580
Yeah, Chiang would be cool

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>>83005735
>Is there going to be a direct follow up?

Just after the metal men plans, the Shazam ongoing and the seven seas

>>83005785
Nah this guys saltiness barley registers. I have friends who throw humongous nerd fits about it. Culminating in a tirade about how DC hates and shits on anything fun or older than 10 years worth of history. God I need some Tylenol just thinking about them.

>>83004720

Yeah it's obvious that if Geoff had any real power at the time he wouldn't have let the New 52 play out like it did. He got promotions since then because he was such a good boy about it and his titles still sold well. Now after helping out on the TV shows and such he's proven himself to be the premier company man and now actually has some keys to the empire.

>>83005837
Shouldn't the timeline have changed without them instead of making another copy of the same people?

>>83005872

Man the Hypercrisis threads are going to go fucking nuts trying to trace Manhatten's influence on the Multiverse.

>>83005693
They were already telling Johns to stop writing when he was on the Superman 'fill-in' run that he actually wanted to continue on. He only did Darkseid War because that was already planned, but that's why Hitch was brought in for the JLA book.

Now, with the DC Films job, he's going to have a lot less time to write, unless he wants to spend less time playing with Bo Duke toys and more of his free time writing book scripts.

>>83006019
Apparently that's not how it worked. Don't consider just this change. It got people from COIE who existed after COIE with minimal changes. Shit like that doesn't fit either but that's what it was.

>>83006019

The multiverse seems to replicate approximations of itself after the removal of those parts. See Earth-2 being reinstated after Infinite Crisis/52 with copies of the Pre-Crisis JSA and Infinity Inc, while the versions already on New Earth/Earth-0 remained the same.

>>83002961
>nth thread with multiple auto sages
>no sticky
>Dr Strange trailer
>insta sticky

>>83003651
Is he really not doing comics anymore?

>>83005943
No it's nice to see legion fans. I really should have poked my head into the story times, but work and real life kept me busy.

So /co/ what do you think about the theory that Johns used Watchmen and Manhattan as a way of subtly shitting on Zach Snyder?

Plausible or no?

Johns seems salty enough to basically say in the preview that New 52, especially the early years, was a mistake. So I wouldn't be surprised if this were true too

>>83005697

The name SHAZAM had been used for toys, comics, and TV well before Johns was even a writer. All he did was get stuck with pulling the trigger. WB can not market the name Captain Marvel legally and it has been am issue since the 70s.

>>83006113
>Scrooge VA dies yesterday
>no sticky

I don't know what the fuck the mods are doing

>>83006067
It also had Superboy with the Legion at the same time there was another bottled city with Pre-Crisis Superman, and they both are the same person, so it doesn't really make sense

>>83006136

JSA Storytimes, and really storytime threads in general, do a lot to influence general opinion around here. There's a lot of us who love the Hawks now because of those threads, for example

>>83006114
He'll probably be able to manage one book, or if someone else will do it, do one of those "story by" and 'breakdowns/dialogue/script/whatever' by someone who's lower tier but competent enough. It would depend on who the editor/group editors are, since essentially, Johns would be editing the actual writer's script, probably. And the actual writer would have to probably work faster.

It would be something like Convergence where they list a kazillion writers but the main story is one or two.

>>83006137
Johns went full heel on Snyder and those who pushed for the new 52 imo

>>83006165
Same with Cooke dying, it took them forever to make a sticky for that and that's only because people made like 20 threads about it. The mods on this board are literally just /tv/ crossposters

>>83006113
>>83006165
>Cooke dies
>sticky 6 hours after the announcement
>Rebirth live stream
>sticky when it's almost over and there were 4 600+ reply threads

>>83004031
Johns would do anything for shekels. Why do you think he's at Hollywood sucking Zack Snyder's dick.

>>83006095
So the Hal currently in the N52 universe is not the "real" one, since that one is Convergence Parallax who was removed from his universe

>>83006113
A preview and two leaked pages for a comic coming out in four days doesn't need a sticky

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>>83006165
Not caring. Per usual. Come on anon /co/ isn't for cartoons...

>>feels bad man

>>83003211
How does she not know who Sinestro is?

>>83006275

There is no single "real" version that is above the others.

>>83006263
>Rebirth live stream
>sticky when it's almost over and there were 4 600+ reply threads

That was just embarrassing. What did they think would happen?

>>83006291

Jessica Cruz became a GL by way of being possessed by Volthoom and becoming the new Power Ring, she's still new at this.

>>83006327
hey at least they did a sticky for the fourth one

>>83003851
Yeah, it was editorial that brainwashed Johns and made Justice League the shittyness it was today. Darkseid War and Trinity of Sin TOTALLY weren't John's fault. Just like it wasn't John's fault that he made Billy Batson into a edgy tryhard. Or when he ruined the crime syndicate. Or when he made Parallax a bug and pushed Hal as the one true Lantern. Or when he had Superman destroy an entire world. And now DC is forcing Geoff Johns to rape Watchmen!!!

Fuck Johns. He's a cororate stooge. I hope he dies in an airplane like his sister.

>>83005362
So that's what Batman saw when he sat on Metron's chair and asked it "Who's the Joker?". He said "that's impossible" after finding out whatever it was.

>>83006456
>Or when he ruined the crime syndicate.
How did he ruin them?

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>>83006456
it's just comics man, calm down

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>>83006456
>complains about Billy being an edgy tryhard
>is an edgy tryhard

>>83006456
>Or when he had Superman destroy an entire world.
background please, I only came back to /co/ this week after a 3 year hiatus shortly after New52 started and my HD crashed.

>>83006456
>Darkseid War
You know people here are the only one that think that right ? and Billy is not a edgy tryhard, for fuck sakes have you read JL ?

>>83006456
>I'm being retarded.
Kill yourself you tasteless pleb.

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>>83002961
Why is Geoff Johns complaining about Comics being "edgy and cynical" when all the comics he writes are edgy and cynical?

His Justice League comic is like something from the 90s (full of Jim Lee artwork and Murder and Gore). He made Billy Batson a cynical bully that threatens people canon in the DC universe. He constantly puts female characters in refrigerators(just now Pandora). He had Superman kill and hurt people. He made Superman shadow dark and "evil". He made edgy characters like Grail. He had Black Manta kill people. He had Aquaman kill a entire species. Heck, even before the reboot, he had all kinds of gore in his comics (GL and Titans especially)

And now he's trying to pull a Grant Morrison and say it was all a Ironic metaphor (HURR DURR I WAS JUST PRETENDING TO BE RETARDED).

Fuck you, Geoff Johns

Say what you will about Marvel's writers but they aren't this egotistical. Marvel writers are at least humble.

>>83003735
Fuck Watchmen.

The reverence you people have for such ponderous bullshit is insane. It's a well-crafted bit of Charlton comics pastiches but craft is all it has going for it.

>>83006801
It was an accident during the Ulysses arc. And it was mostly Ulysses' fault anyway.

>>83006846
>Marvel's writers but they aren't this egotistical. Marvel writers are at least humble.
Are you serious ?

I used to think people got the importance of stories like watchmen and dkr and kingdom come and v for vendetta beyond their influence or popularity.
They represented pieces of art. Works of craft that are set apart from the mish mash give and take continuity driven nature of ongoing stuff.
But wow people do t give a shit. They seriously think the anger is because Moore's work is too sacred to be touched by tawdry fingers. So they can shove the opposing argument into a garbage bag and dismiss it out of hand.
But nah most folks don't give a Fuck. Self contained stories? No thanks. I don't care about the crafted narrative of that world...the toy box needs more figures cos Geoff wants to play. Cos fuck anything being left along when it can be used In the workings of the machine for more ongoing stuff.
One person actually said "well if not Dr. Manhattan who is gonna be responsible for the dark age of comics" like that ended it and justified all. Nah fuck his nature as a character in his story. Fuck his journey at the end. Nope he really flew off and did super villain shit to he dc universe and who gives a shit because again...all just toys in the toy box.
Well hey fine. But you know when the character you love gets fucked up down the road and mischaracterized by some shit writer who needed them to move the plot...oh well. Toy for the toybox. You accepted it, you're the ones buying this shit. You should smile and thank em when they pinch a loaf on your plate cos it might make for a mildly interesting crossover no one will give a fuck about in a year.

>>83006165
>tfw watched the Batman TAS episode with him on the day he dies
>find out he died afterwards
lads, did I kill him?

>>83006907
Are you implying Manhattan was a good character and not a walking plot device ?

>>83006846
You already said this anon

Did you forget what Rebirth thread you were in?

>>83005164
He also hates Wally and Kyle.

The only reason he brought back White Wally now is to trick everyone and get brownie points. If he liked the character he would of bright him back before.

>>83006561
>>83006811
Billy isn't worthy, that's what Johns did show. That the wizard tried a bunch of people -- found them unworthy and pretty much said, fuck it, kid. You're up.

The Billy in the entire trade is a dick.

>>83006907
Pick better characters to be your favorites, friend.

>>83006980
>If he liked the character he would of bright him back before.

See he did though so I can't tell if this is tongue in cheek or not

>>83006980
Except he had no control over Flash at the start

>>83006991
Dude, the entirety of Curse of Shazam is billy becoming good old billy, so for fuck sakes read the comic

>>83006846
>Why is Geoff Johns complaining about Comics being "edgy and cynical"

Where does he say that?

>>83007087
Why read comics when he can complain instead?

>>83006942
>>83007003
And two already miss the point. Thinking again it must be a 'no watchmen is sacred and perfect' and instead of intelligent discourse...'nah that character sucks so who cares'
Bravo guys. Enjoy your cash grab.

>>83006897

I think he is. Holy shit I didn't know such a retard could exist.

>>83007108
That's one thing Rebirth is about and is one reason why he used Watchmen of all people

>>83007087
Except he didn't become good again. He's still a dick after the story (heck, he even threatened to ruin his step-sisters whimsical belief in Santa. How nice and good (that's sarcasm btw)). He also punched superman.

Even the wizard acknowledges he's still a dick in his terrible Darkseid war tie in.

>>83006980

Kyle never went away. At all. He has had a book in publication since he was created.

I love Kyle but other Kylefags are the fucking worst.

Wally was also not on him. He had big plans for the entire Flash family and Wally went away because of DiDio and movie plans. Wally was NEVER on WBs radar for movies. Even before the DCEU.

Johns wanted Barry back but it wasn't meant to be at the expense of Wally. Johns wrote Wally for years and even twisted Bart into being Wally-lite.

>>83007182
>heck, he even threatened to ruin his step-sisters whimsical belief in Santa

So this is how /co/ argues how someone is a dick.

>>83007182
He is such a dick that he helped Vic on a lot of stuff on JL and Superman attacked him first so theres that

So I was initially borderline ecstatic at the prospect of love and Wally returning to the DCU, but after the Manhattan and three jokers reveal I realized this is more empty bullshit that isn't even clever about trying to boost sales. Nothing will be new under the red Sun at DC. Johns is pandering hard and then leaving the same fuckers involved with the sinking ship at the helm. Fuck this shit. DC Afterbirth more like it.

>>83007316

Remember in JL when he broke international law just to give his enemy an honorable and proper burial?

What a douche.

>>83007151
I was asking for a link to article where he says what you posted >>83006846

>>83007327
>Nothing new
>Because they're doing new things

Can somebody explain how, with these continuity changes, Barbara Gordon's adventures and costume and everything don't seem affected by any of this?
Seems like the only difference between #52 and #1 is a change of writer and artist, but the story simply continues from one day to the next. First arc is literally called Beyond Burnside. I don't get how that works with those 10 years ect rebirth changes

>>83007702
You're misunderstanding the situation. The 10 year change happened between Flashpoint and the new 52. This is just revealing some things not adding those years back in. The new 52 continuity is continuing still.

>>83007772

ah ok, thanks for explaining!

Anyone here watched The Adjustment Bureau?
I always have to think of that movie when there's another retcon/continuity change coming around.

>>83008010

No but I watched the HITB. Same thing right?

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Marvelfag here. Is this event a good time to start reading DC?

>>83008336
Yes.

First interview with Johns about all of this.

https://www.inverse.com/article/15992-dc-s-first-rebirth-comic-attacks-new-52-changes-regains-lost-heroes

>DC’s Chief Creative Officer Geoff Johns wrote Rebirth #1 as a temporary farewell to the comic book medium. Inverse met with Johns in Manhattan to discuss his changing role at the company, and why he’s comfortable moving onto DCU films after producing this particular comic.

>To Johns’ credit, Rebirth is a stunning superhero story, shocking enough in its choices to charge up the reader, and steeped enough in genuine emotion to make its characters — oldies we all know, including Batman, The Flash, Aquaman — feel like present, culturally relevant personalities. Rebirth is chock full of moments fans will be analyzing for months. When we mentioned this to Johns, he smiled, seeming relaxed. Upon first handing us the comic, however, he interrupted himself, exclaiming, “No, don’t flip to the last page! Trust me!”

>Johns’ final page is a doozy; after a long and winding search for who (within the DC universe) stole Batman and the other characters’ vitality, their reasons for being, their connections and legacies and history, Batman digs into the wall of the Batcave and discovers The Comedian’s pin, from Alan Moore’s seminal graphic novel, Watchmen, which was published by DC in 1986 and 1987. Johns is, understandably, worried that the internet will explode at the plot twist, pitting DC’s superheroes against the Watchmen line-up, hoping for simple clicks based on the kookiness of the premise. “It’s more than that,” he says, and he’s right. For that reason, it’s a shame that Rebirth leaked, in disconnected pages and segments, on Reddit last night. The volume must be read, in its entirety, in order to be understood and appreciated.

>>83008431
>The most simple plotline in Rebirth is this: Wally West is being sucked into the Speed Force, slowly and painfully, and he risks being forgotten by all the other DC superheroes. In trying to break out of the Speed Force, he appears to characters whom he believes will remember his name, but none of them do. While trying to survive, he’s tugged all over the DC universe, peeking in on lesser heroes and villains, all characters Johns says will appear in future post-Rebirth issues.

>He finally finds Barry Allen, the original Flash, and just after accepting his own death and thanking Barry for every good day, Barry remembers him and grabs his arm, pulling him back into reality. Wally speaks with Batman in the last few issues of the comic, and they both agree that some unseen, insidious presence has been toying with DC heroes, making their stories weaker. Their connections have begun feeling false, and their appeal has been decaying, but why? In the final panel of Rebirth, Batman discovers, as we mentioned, The Comedian’s pin. The epilogue suggests Dr. Manhattan has been emotionlessly screwing with DC’s heroes, experimenting with their stories but not understanding their humanity.

>Johns has made DC’s past mistakes canon, in a way, by casting Dr. Manhattan as the clueless, but in-universe, writer of DC’s stories. …Get it?

>>83008336
Search for the good stories from all around the New 52 and read them if you want though.

>>83008165
no, I don't think so

>>83008466
>Johns believes, correctly, that the core message of Watchmen was grossly misunderstood and manipulated in decades following its release. The comic, Johns believes, was a warning not to become disillusioned with the values that have defined DC from the beginning: justice, legacies, epic storytelling, love. Watchmen was not an instruction manual for writing contemporary hero comics.

>“If you don’t understand the ingredients that make, say, a good cake, then you’re not going to be able to make one. This stuff, [superhero comics], it’s alchemy. I’ve always been drawn to relationships. There’s an echo of Green Arrow and Black Canary in ‘Rebirth’ that suggests the heroes themselves miss their connections. If they miss it, we’re going to miss it even more.” Johns is referring to a touching moment in Rebirth, in which Oliver and Dinah meet eyes and feel a tug at something shared in their pasts — their romance together, pre-‘New 52’ — but can’t quite recall why they feel a spark for each other. Johns says Green Arrow, having lost what matters and feels good about his story, begins Rebirth as depressed, though he doesn’t know why.

>That’s the beauty of Johns crafting a meta-text in Rebirth that’s in communication with DC’s most famous meta-text, Watchmen: he doesn’t sacrifice genuine emotion and vulnerability in the process of matching Alan Moore’s intellect. For Johns, superheroes like The Flash are motivated by the purest objectives in fiction. It’s not worth making every single superhero story dark and, to use a cliched word, gritty, because that marketing tool misses the point of superheroes entirely.

>>83008336
It's a 80 one shot for 2.99

You should get it away so they'll do more like this later even if you don't care enough to read it

Also yes, this and the relaunches should be a new place to start at

>>83008500
>Readers, and Johns himself, believe the creators of the ‘New 52’ comics, in part incorrectly inspired by what they thought was a manifesto in Watchmen, are to blame for the loss of many beloved storylines and distinctive tones across DC’s pantheon. The ‘New 52’, and the direction DC films have gone in lately, have homogenized DC’s characters as grim spectacles, punching up giant foes and not feeling anything in particular for their teammates. Johns, and DC, have made the stunning choice to embody that extra-textual threat in Dr. Manhattan, who will be the literal foe for Batman and the rest of DC’s heroes, moving forward. “I promise it’s not going to be Batman and company punching Dr. Manhattan a bunch of times. That’s not how you combat something like this,” Johns says, laughing.

>The final few pages of Rebirth are devoted to preview covers for upcoming storylines, including The Flash, Titans, Teen Titans, Batman, Green Lanterns, Green Arrow, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, Action Comics and Superman. What’s notable about each of these is a small plot summary, or conceit, under each title. Titans’s reads: “Wally West uncovers a secret that will destroy his friends!” Johns says this was intentional, for the first round of Rebirth comics. “I spoke with every creator and helped them get down to the core of what’s great about their hero, and what’s happening to them as we start.” Each of DC’s heroes are now being sold to comic book readers as individuals with existing connections; it’s an impressive attempt at reaching both new readers and fans of classic DC comics. Their stories are simplified and focused homages to their original, legacy comics.

>>83008336

There's plenty of ways to jump into DC without relying on current events or continuity.

Shit, my first DC comic was 52, and then the Giffen/Rogers Blue Beetle series, years after both represented current events.

>>83008543
>The final few pages of Rebirth are devoted to preview covers for upcoming storylines, including The Flash, Titans, Teen Titans, Batman, Green Lanterns, Green Arrow, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, Action Comics and Superman. What’s notable about each of these is a small plot summary, or conceit, under each title. Titans’s reads: “Wally West uncovers a secret that will destroy his friends!” Johns says this was intentional, for the first round of Rebirth comics. “I spoke with every creator and helped them get down to the core of what’s great about their hero, and what’s happening to them as we start.” Each of DC’s heroes are now being sold to comic book readers as individuals with existing connections; it’s an impressive attempt at reaching both new readers and fans of classic DC comics. Their stories are simplified and focused homages to their original, legacy comics.

>Johns’ final comic for DC in a while is a triumph, and an optimistic shout into the void. DC’s success will depend on whether the team of creators DC has amassed to take up Johns’ call for legacy and honest storytelling have the skills to drive the endeavor home. As for Johns, if Rebirth is any indication of where he’ll take DC’s upcoming blockbuster films, we’re in for intelligent, emotionally resonant storytelling, and that’s the most exciting part of the comic. As Johns’ influence grows, DC will only benefit from having him sounding off on the brand’s largest decisions.

>>83008543
>Readers, and Johns himself, believe the creators of the ‘New 52’ comics, in part incorrectly inspired by what they thought was a manifesto in Watchmen, are to blame for the loss of many beloved storylines and distinctive tones across DC’s pantheon. The ‘New 52’, and the direction DC films have gone in lately, have homogenized DC’s characters as grim spectacles, punching up giant foes and not feeling anything in particular for their teammates. Johns, and DC, have made the stunning choice to embody that extra-textual threat in Dr. Manhattan, who will be the literal foe for Batman and the rest of DC’s heroes, moving forward. “I promise it’s not going to be Batman and company punching Dr. Manhattan a bunch of times. That’s not how you combat something like this,” Johns says, laughing.

For people who had doubt that Nelson+Snyder were getting BTFO

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>>83008646

HHAHAHAH YEAAAAAAH!!!

>>83008500
>>“If you don’t understand the ingredients that make, say, a good cake, then you’re not going to be able to make one. This stuff, [superhero comics], it’s alchemy. I’ve always been drawn to relationships. There’s an echo of Green Arrow and Black Canary in ‘Rebirth’ that suggests the heroes themselves miss their connections. If they miss it, we’re going to miss it even more.” Johns is referring to a touching moment in Rebirth, in which Oliver and Dinah meet eyes and feel a tug at something shared in their pasts — their romance together, pre-‘New 52’ — but can’t quite recall why they feel a spark for each other. Johns says Green Arrow, having lost what matters and feels good about his story, begins Rebirth as depressed, though he doesn’t know why.

Would this mean that characters who were in a relationship before New 52, but aren't anymore, are about to remember it?

>>83008336
The best way to jump into any comic is to just pick up old trades of their classic story arcs.

>>83008837
Yeap. Arthur is going to marry Mera. Ollie and Dinah is going to be a couple. And I guess many more thing will happen

>>83008837
>Would this mean that characters who were in a relationship before New 52, but aren't anymore, are about to remember it?

I fucking hope so. Both DC and Marvel are suffering from a noticeable lack of married couples.

>>83008928
All of this and Kate still won't be allowed to marry Maggie.

>>83008987
That's what you think. Give it time. It'll happen. This is bold NEW DCU

>>83008928
Sick. I'm going to be a total faggot now and hope this means we're getting Beast Boy and Raven back together since pre-New 52 Teen Titans ended with them embracing their feelings for each other, and that pairing was something Johns pushed for in the first place.

>>83008987

Give it time. DC is mending busted fences. I can't see why Williams and Rucka won't be allowed to do a Batwoman marriage mini.

I honestly have no idea what to say about any of this. I guess it has me piqued in equal parts wonder and annoyance. But this comic will probably suck. Most technical-adjustment comics do.
But who fucking cares? This is all you continuity cucks' fault. Comics could and should just be little adventures in the day of the lives, with the understand that each death and future is just that author's version. But every single reader who obsessively catalogs the "history" of these fictional characters and demands that fidelity is why DC fucking sucks now.

>>83009043
there's so much pre-new 52 that got abruptly cancelled, like what happened with maxwell lord or the shitheap that was superman-grounded

Personally, at least I can identify with the spirit of Rebirth. But good God Johns just goes ahead and forces the theme on you, huh.

>>83009394

To be fair, a lot of it was shit so I'm glad it got the axe.

Like holy fucking shit the JSA and Marvel families were in dire places immediately before Flashpoint.

>>83009327

The comic has gotten 5 star reviews and 10/10's from everyone who has reviewed it, easily the best reviewed comic of the year. It's not going to suck.

>>83009479
JSA got written to shit after Johns stopped writing it, go figure. his run on JSA/Justice Society of America was pretty rad.

>>83009505
Oh man that does not sway me whatsoever. Crisis on Infinite Earth kinda blows and it's beloved legacy comics so I guess what I'm saying is this comic will probably suck even if it's appealing to what the reader's most want.

I honestly don't understand three Jokers at all. I can't anticipate what the fuck that means because every idea I have really sucks.

>>83009505
mass effect 3 got 10/10s everywhere as well but it was still a slap in the face to every fan of the series.

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>>83009613

Yeah, it's really well-liked here on /co/. I actually say it's my favorite work by Johns, even though large portions of it were co-written with Goyer.

>>83009619
>Crisis on Infinite Earth kinda blows

Are you baiting.

>>83009327
A day in your life doesn't make sense without the context of what happened yesterday, last year, etc.

Human beings' lives and personalities are the product of their character development, character development is what makes fictional characters compelling, and character development can only happen gradually as a consequence of experiences.

>>83004380
At this point I'm pretty sure this guy is some college student trying to earn some extra money of one of those new anti-marketing companies, I mean nobody puts so much effort in a discussion on an anonymous board without a very good incentive...
Some guy working on one of those was talking about his experiences here a few months ago but I don't what happened with the tread...

>>83009479
>uncle guggie is going to be writing the jsa on LoT season 2

goddamn monkeys paw

>>83009694
personally I don't like CoIE either, I am the guy who wrote
>>83009613
by the way.

>>83009665
Could just be another explanation for him going back and forth between a harmless clown that steals whoopee cushions and the worst mast murderer in history.

>>83009619
>Crisis on Infinite Earth kinda blows

Nah it's pretty good, just kind of densely written.

>>83009694
No, but I will say it's better than any other cosmic reboot story. I guess; how was Secret Wars?
Maybe it's just me, but I really don't like any event that's ultimately about rearranging the fictional timeline of fictional characters as if it fucking matter at all. Nobody's favorite superhero comic is about anything besides the distilled spirit of that character.

>>83009807

disney shill pls go

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>>83009739

Now that Johns is more heavily involved with the live-action side of things hopefully it won't suck?

R-right?

>>83009707
That is in no way true about superheroes. What's Batman's secret origin story? Year One is what most people would say.
Because it's about what you like most, not what the fucking publisher has very temporarily decided is canon.
I don't even understand continuity cucks. Like, do you like being abused? Don't you see by now how meaningless and temporary it all is?

>>83009862
>Now that Johns is more heavily involved with the live-action side of things hopefully it won't suck?
>R-right?
he's too busy with the raging dumpster fire of snyder to focus on the blazing trash can fire of gugganheim.

>>83009723
He's doing a terrible job.

>>83009772
More unneeded bullshit trying to appease autists.

>>83009739
>>83009862
>>83009961
>guggenheim writing comics
why is this still allowed?

>>83002961

I actually love all this. The preview alone had me welling up

It seems /co/ is pretty divided so how are the other sites responding to this?

>>83009778
It might just be generational expectation. It was pretty dry for me and the emotional impact is completely lost without being born before then.

>>83009934

Comics continuity always changes, it's foolish to put all your stock into one "true" version of a character and then be mad when editors decide to fiddle around with it several years down the road.

That being said, there's also nothing wrong with wanting good stories to come out of that fiddling, regardless of what continuity they use to achieve it.

>>83008543
This is ridiculous. I can see this being a jab at the DC films, but Watchmen has nothing to do with DiDio and company fucking up the DC continuity.

>>83010015
Yeah, it is pretty dumb. All the explanation that's needed is that the Joker's crazy and just does whatever he thinks is funny.

>>83010033

Not the comics.

He's one of the head writers/producers of the CW verse shows.

An interview done for the season finale of Legends of Tomorrow has his admitting that they basically pull everything out of their ass for developing characters and concepts from the comics, with zero foresight.

>>83010033
at least he is writing marvel now.

>>83009723
How does that work? Some competitor, I'm presuming Marvel, hires someone to come on 4chan and shittalk DC?

Five years of the Nu52 and they think you need to pay money to get people to shittalk DC?

>>83010079
I don't think that's it. I read it for the first time like 5 years ago even after I read 52 with the muiltiverse coming back.

Different stroke and all.

>>83010090
But then we don't disagree at all. Like, my tone is harsher but that's exactly what I mean.

>>83010094
He's not blaming Watchmen itself, but the legacy and impact it had on the comic industry. It's not Watchmen was bad" it's "Watchmen isn't the end all be all, there are other ways to tell stories"

>>83010138
It fucking shows.

>>83009723
How do you apply for this job?

>>83010155
It's a stupid meme from /pol/, except there it's their delusions.

>>83003935
>People who act like Watchmen is sacred are retarded.

It's not about being sacred, it is about being one shot and that is the story that stand out. today who cares about before the watchmen?

>>83003241
best captain atom is back!

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2MB, 367x206px

>>83010158

Black Aqualad is the 6th Teen Titans member.

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169KB, 679x864px

>>83009807

>>83009807
Enjoy Civil War 2: Electric boogaloo

>>83010324
I'm down for Kaldur

>>83010214
What makes you think the mood of the comics will change? everything will be the same, they're just making some characters come back because the reboot didn't work as well, eventually, it will happen again.

>>83010036
>newsarama 10/10
>ign 9.5/10
>comicvine 5/5
Everyone that's actually read it seems to fucking love it.

>>83010301
>It's not about being sacred, it is about being one shot and that is the story that stand out. today who cares about before the watchmen?
Is English your second language?

>>83004793
>He KNOWS Zack is a fucking cynical dickbag who doesn't get Superman
Except their is nothing wrong or dickbagish about being cynical.
And choosing to ask what if Superman existed in a dark cynical world that would challenge him doesn't fucking mean you don't get the character.
It means he just wants to play with the character in a different context then the norm, nothing more.

>>83010362
>What makes you think the mood of the comics will change? everything will be the same, they're just making some characters come back because the reboot didn't work as well, eventually, it will happen again.
The entire point of the story is about restoring legacy and recreating the bonds that New 52 destroyed. This is the most hopeful the DCU has been in a long time

>>83010500
You don't waste a multimillion dollar brand to play out your Elseworlds with real people. That's trash.

>>83010527
Comics have been influenced by Watchmen ever since it came out, it's not the Nu52 being the only one who was influenced by it, DC was already following Moore steps.

How proud is Morrison right now?
>his successor taking over not just Doom Patrol but an entire new imprint that is more Vertigo now than Vertigo itself is
>Johns writing a metatextual event straight out of Morrison's own playbook
>said event also takes a giant shit on not just sworn enemy Moore but also the negativity of the industry and the reboot that fucked with Morrison's own Batman run

>>83008466

>He finally finds Barry Allen, the original Flash, and just after accepting his own death and thanking Barry for every good day, Barry remembers him and grabs his arm, pulling him back into reality.

I'm gonna fucking cry when I read Rebirth. I can't remember the last time that happened

>>83010623
>Comics have been influenced by Watchmen ever since it came out,
That's the point

>>83010159

Okay yeah then we agree.

>>83010629

Don't forget, this is also Johns' swan song to end his comic writing duties for the foreseeable future and to move into coordinating DC's live-action shit.

There must be some hardcore sigiling going on behind the scenes.

>>83008987
You're right. Rucka will marry her to Renee

>>83010629
Morrison is probably inviting Johns over to meth and cereal night on tuesday evening.

>>83010819
Oh god that how Morrison did it, he bribed Johns with cereal.

>>83010763
I gotta say this seems like a fantastic mike drop

>>83002961
>>83003188
>Lettered Preview
ftfy because there were some B&W parts posted those last several weeks.

I will get to update the Rebirth checklist later because my faggot ISP is back.

>>83010629
>you will never be a crazy wizard with proteges who make you proud

why even live

Damn this is making me want to get back into comics and actually reading all the shit for Flashpoint and DC's multiverse stuff with anti-monitor

>>83004687

too much autism. stop and take your meds, friend.

>>83004687
>and is approximately 5-7 during JL Origin as shown in Lois & Clark #1,
he's stated to be 9 during Origin

>>83010953

Flashpoint isn't all that great, but there's a lot of good shit in the New 52, and Multiversity was fucking amazing, especially if you read it right on the heels of Final Crisis as a continuation of Nix Uotan's story.

Darkseid War has been pretty disappointing though, sadly, I'd advise skipping it.

>>83011004
he was a baby during origin. he's 10 now. he came to dc 10 years ago during origin as a baby, and now he is 10. like they had just arrived on the new earth after during origins

>>83011112
oh you're right, I mean 9 currently. my bad

>>83011098
I just have to get over that mental block of "where do I start", load up my Nook, and get to it. I think Rebirth might bethat catalyst

>>83010953
there really isn't any lead-up to flashpoint except a bit of flash stuff.

>>83011201
>I just have to get over that mental block of "where do I start"

There's a great recommended reading list of New 52 titles floating around here somewhere. I can suggest some stuff offhand if you have specific genres/styles or characters you're interested in.

>>83010214
And I wasn't saying they're blaming Watchmen itself, but I was precisely talking about his legacy. DiDio and company fucking up the DC universe with New 52 had nothing to do with Watchmen.

>>83011265
Alright cool thanks

>>83011278
Is that /co/mrade tumblr still up with all the reqs? I haven't been on /co/ or reading comics since MoS came out but I'd take any suggestions for
>Flash
>Batman
>Superman
>Green Lantern

And then just anything you feel like were sleeper hits I supoose. I honestly might just read all of those heroes shit from Nu52 though because I don't like skipping