>New 52 is pre-Flashpoint with ten years stolen >This was

>>82987365

How the fuck do characters turn into completely different, shittier versions of themselves in ten years?

>>82987852
Not to mention the fact that the pre-52 and post-52 Supermen are in the same space. How the fuck does that work if the New 52 is the pre-52?

>>82987852
No JSA around to be awesome old role models

>>82987852
>>82987881
Shhh, you are not supposed to quetion Johns actions.
Just shout BASED CERAL KING and go back watching The Flash and pretend you like Johns for his comics

>>82987881
My theory is that the reality altered by Flashpoint is a universe with a similar history to pre-flashpoint.

>>82987920

What if I like Johns for giving needy dogs loving homes?

Because its not as simple as that.
Like at all

Also hes talking about Flashpoint. Barry and Wally are Johns self-inserts in Rebirth

>>82987881

It's actually stated based on the IGN spoilers that New 52 Superman isn't who Clark thought he was. It'll probably turn out that New 52 Superman was a different character repurposed into the role of Post-Crisis Superman since he wasn't there when the world was rebooted. Maybe Kal-L or Conner like people were speculating in another thread.

So hoe does this work exactly?

Pre-Flashpoint--->Flashpoint--->Everyone loses 10 years of their lives--->New 52--->a bunch of shit happens during the New 52 that rewrites stories from pre-Flashpoint continuity--->Rebirth--->learn that the New 52 was just the old continuity that was altered--->Everyone gets those missing 10 years back or are the just lost since New 52 stories rewrote most of them?

>>82987852
Same way it happened in 52 with Mir Mind's antics.

>>82988035
We knew since some previews were revealed that Jason was getting his post-crisis origin back, so some old stuff likely will return to continuity now since you've got characters who remember the real history walking around, with Clark, Lois and now Barry and Wally.

>>82988035
Hypertime will slowly merge the two together.

>>82988014
Oh. That makes sense. Cool

>>82987946
Given the pace at which those dogs die once they enter the Johns household, he's probably doing something sinister with them.

Best case scenaio:
Wally and Black Wally interact and have the same facial expressions

>>82988014
But what about Paralax Hal and nu52 Hal and Lois Lane?
Those 3 are the only pre-52 characters that jumped to and exist along with the nu-52 counterparts.

>Bruce has always been older than the rest of the League
>New52 Supes wasnt actually Supes
>Wondy is actually way older via Ruckas Year One
>Flash can speedforce away the years
>actually makes sense for Vic

So how do they explain deaging Hal?

>>82988181
>Barry fucks off
>Wally becomes Flash again, gets his family back
>Black Wally gets a nickname, becomes Kid Flash
>Also Bart Allen punches Bar-Tor in the dick and becomes Impulse again
Best end.

>>82988249
>>82988209
Hal actually has a cousin who's also named Hal Jordan, just say New 52 Hal was actually Air Wave the whole time

And after this, I'm still going to have the shitty Nu52 version of Cassandra Cain.

>>82987920
Wallyfag, Kylefag or Batfag?

>>82988360
Cassfags don't deserve anything better

>>82988360
and people will stil claim that Batfags have it easy while they are getting back pre-52 Superman and Wally

>>82987852
Didn't you read the preview?
Love was stolen from them

Wally back
JSA back

But I still don't have jester Harley back.

>>82988438

That doesn't turn you into a literal physically different person.

>>82988483
It does with BASED CEREAL KING XDD!!!

>>82988483
As someone who regularly steals love, I can attest that it does.

>>82988035
Jesus fuck dc why can't you just retcon and reboot without trying to make these butfuck retarded in universe explanations

>>82988209
I hadn't thought about Lois. If the Kal-L theory ended up being right though, she could be Pre-Crisis Earth-2 Lois, who also died on the Post-Crisis Earth.

>>82988035

I would actually, honestly prefer the "Nu52 was an alternate universe lol" handwave over circuituous shit like that.

>>82988209
>>82988358
That's dumb. Halallax always had time travel powers, that's all you need to explain him dicking around in the future. Send him home when you're done writing bad stories where he and Hal fight, loop closed.

>>82988136
>Hypertime will slowly merge the two together.
I will never stop recognizing Hypertime as the true continuity.

Tell me what is difference between pre-fp Superman and nu52 Superman. Last one is more closer to Snyder's MoS or what? Also younger? That's all?

>>82988702
Yeah. And not wise, old, inspirational and in love with Lois.

>>82988733
And no embarrassing memories of his mullet days.

>>82988702
He's not like MoS at all, really. He actually has dialogue and an optimistic outlook.

Being younger is the thing, really. They replaced him with Old Supes because they wanted the marriage and kid.

>>82988702
Nu52 Superman is actually a character
Pre-fp Superman is the meme character loved by everyone, always right, never wrong, the most just around etc. that people find boring

Where did this Cereal King meme come from? I dunno but I like it

>>82988751
Everyone had fashion travesty once in their life.

>>82988776
It's from a time Geoff posted himself grocery shopping on twitter. He fuckin' loves cereal, was taking pics as he shopped, apparently the manager thought it was weird and asked him to stop, then he tried to get a discount by telling him "I write Aquaman" and it didn't fly.

>>82988776
Geoff used to tweet about cereal a lot..got creepy to a certain point.

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>>82987365
>Marvel merges the ultimate universe and stuff from the MCU into their main comics
>YAAAAAAAAY MORE INHUMANS AND MOVIE SYNERGY
>DC merges pre- and post-Flashpoint
>BOOOOOO WE DON'T WANT THE OLD STUFF BACK AND THIS SUCKS

>>82988733
>inspirational
What does it mean?

>>82988879
Good bait

>>82988751
But that was good times.

Nobody cares about the shitty logic behind the reboot that supposedly isn't a reboot they just care about getting their favorite characters back.

>>82988917
Mullet times are good times but also embarrassing times.

>>82988702

New52 Superman started his career with a Golden Age-like powerset, after the Kents died. He was brasher and more impulsive, also clearly enjoyed what he does, and depending on the writer he either left that behind as he matured (mostly in John's own writing) or he still showed signs of that at times.

In the New52, he also had been once again the first known Super Hero, although very little was done with that, so it ended up being a fairly pointless addition in the end.

>>82988977
>In the New52, he also had been once again the first known Super Hero, although very little was done with that, so it ended up being a fairly pointless addition in the end.

Yeah, the irony was the only reason to have Superman be "the first hero" is you're going to be everyone else's inspiration, but Nu52 Supes was more "just another one of the boys, nothin' special" than any other Superman in fuckin' history.

I fucking like New 52 Supes there was nothing wrong with him.

>>82989029
He didn't love Lois. Sorry, you know what masses want.

Reminds me of how Kubo writes Bleach.
>Oh you thought this thing worked that way? Fuck you Zangetsu is actually Hollow Ichigo, why are you still reading this crap.

>>82989029
Eh, I never outright disliked him, as opposed to a LOT of other Nu52 portrayals of characters, but he got to be a little too much like Conner at the end there, with the haircut and the more focus on his temper.

Being an experienced elder statesman kinda fits Superman's statue in the DCU more, plus Lois pretty much sucks and serves no purpose as a character when she's not married to him.

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>>82989073

>>82989111
meant to say "stature"

With an R

Will they ever fix the mistake called Arsenal?

>>82989029
not MUH CHARACTER is a valid argument when used by Superfags apparently

>>82988775
Morons found boring

>>82989167
Sure sure

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Oh god. His backstory is going to get even more complicated now.

I have decided I'm just going to ignore dcs pathetic attempts to explain retcon and reboots in universe from now I'm I'm just not going to buy rebirth

Of course it's not always avoidable I walked right into that shit with Pandora[ I just stoped reading that right there though

So did Rebirth info get leaked? What did I miss? I've been busy and haven't been able to check /co/ in a while.

>>82989294
the blue guy from watchmen created the DC universe

>>82989154
He hasn't had a mullet anymore for a while, if that helps

>>82989294
nu52 reboot never happened, it was a trick by Watchmen.

>>82989294
Yes, there are several actual leaks plus a lot of spoilery reviews and a spoilery preview

>>82987852
And it doesn't explain Batman and GL retaining all their history while characters like WW and Supes have completely changed.

>>82989294
They sent out copies to retailers, some retailers blabbed/
So later on DC just decided "ok, screw it" and gave Newarama and IGN permission to spoil

>>82989310
More like he tampered with the DC universe.

>>82989334
Wondyer Womans history we know is a bunch of lies, thats what Ruckas run is about
New52 Superman isnt Superman

>>82989322
What? Explain this.

Crazy idea, but what if the reason Wally is wearing the Kid Flash outfit is because the crisis was averted in Convergence? He only wore the red suit to honour Barry's memory, and if Barry never died...

>>82989370
So the Superman we thought we had was just some random guy

>>82989334
Rayner lost several girlfriends worth of history and all the Robins got their origins squished together and fucked up.

That was always the problem with the Nu52, none of the retcons fit together or made sense.

At least now we can point to an excuse, like "Manhattan did a sloppy job of changing history, that's WHY there are so many fuckin' plotholes"

how does it tie with Final Crisis and Darkseid being dead and then alive again but weaker etc.

>>82989401
What if he wore KF outfit so people could know who's who?

>>82989334
Wonder Woman had a reboot kind of set up at the end of her own Pre-Flashpoint run. Morrison's run also had suggested that Superman's timeline changes were due to an evil 5th dimensional imp messing with him. Still, at least for Superman, there's the implication now that he was never there and Post-Flashpoint Superman was someone else, which is why he was different. The mysterious guy with a cloak apparently directly tells Clark that New 52 Superman isn't who he thought he was.

>>82989401
Wally's wearing the Kid Flash outfit because whatever Manhattan did made everybody's history off by ten years somehow.

>>82989334
>And it doesn't explain Batman retaining all their history

Because he didn't retain all his history.

>>82989402
No its not a random guy, apparently its revealed in Rebirth or Superman #52

>>82989404
>Rayner lost several girlfriends worth of history
Oh no, how awful for him!

>>82989414
Flashpoint undid the fact that Final Crisis happened in the first place.

>>82989414
Multiversity already had explained that though. John's Darkseid is just an "emanation" who thought he was the real deal, while the real one was still recovering from Final Crisis.

>>82989447
Fuck you, some of us liked Jade a lot

>>82989443
Based on the spoilers, Rebirth doesn't really reveal who he was, just says that he isn't who Pre-Flashpoint Clark thought he was.

>>82989468
She moved another guy into the apartment she and Kyle shared while he was busy in space.

>>82989461
>recovering from Final Crisis

How do you recover from your god-form dying so hard it drills a hole through time and you have to possess humans, then your soul being shattered after you're kicked out of the human?

>>82989468
I like Jade too, that's why it's good that her awful time with Kyle is erased

>>82989484
Well hey, we all regret Ben Raab.

>>82989310
>>82989322
I'm kind of weary about this but I'll try to see it through. Maybe they manage to stick the landing.That's a BIG maybe.

>>82989490
Nix Uotan brought him back while influenced by the Gentry.

>>82989494
SHE was erased. There is currently no Jade.

Although maybe she'll come back when the main Earth's JSA does.

>>82989568
Nonexistence isn't the worst thing that can happen to a character.

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>>82988035
I actually almost have to admire the balls. I mean, objectively looking at it, that's a fucking insane move for the company to attempt. These people are actually at the cutting edge of... something. It kind of has flair to it.

I also have to quite like how they're reversing some of their genocide of their grand old continuity. Some people actually love the gloriously old and detailed history of these characters. We just don't generate any money for the company that owns it, and are also gradually dwindling away.

The more I think about it, the more I admire what a batshit direction this is for them to take (pun intended kek)....

It's been a long week and I'm struggling to understand what they've done here.
I haven't followed Nu52 since the first couple of issues. Are they just merging pre flashpoint and the current continuity?

I'd appreciate anyone taking the time to dumb it down for me

>>82989664
God bless Geoff Johns.

>>82989672

Basically that. They're saying that New52 is different from Pre-Flashpoint due to Manhattan messing with the timeline for some reason,and now due to some people who remember the Pre-Flashpoint timeline appearing (Pre-Flashpoint Superman and Wally) other people are starting to remember the real history, like Barry.

>>82989664
>desperate move trying to undo something
>i-it's genius guys!

if Marvel did it you drones would be shitting on them no stop

>>82989672
>Are they just merging pre flashpoint and the current continuity?

Sort of.

The suggestion is that the Nu52 IS the Post-Crisis DCU, but somebody (hinted to be Dr. Manhattan) used what Barry did at the end of Flashpoint to rewrite some of history, the major thing being stealing years from everybody's lives to make people younger or make "legacy" characters go away, like the JSA never came back out of retirement after the McCarthy era.

>>82989724
Alright then, I'm probably going to have to read nu52 of get what's different.

Not sure how I feel about the Watchmen joining the main continuity though.

>>82988014
>New 52 Clark is Superboy Prime.

>>82988572
This
Why does dc so ardently refuse to do reboots and retcons without pulling some retarded shit like this.

>>82988572
They're afraid they will lose those 3 cucks that like the New 52.

>>82988917
That was also Superman blue times

>>82989759
Naw, if you think about it, there's a direct parallel example:

If Marvel undid One More Day, and the end result wasn't MJ and Peter remarried but at least they remembered what happened and were dating again, that's what you'd have here.

New 52 Supes was actually a pile of sand this whole time, and nobody noticed.

>>82989892
>that Futures End issue with sand Superman
AHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHH
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHG

>>82989664
Its hilarious they're trying to blame all the grimdarkness on Watchmen, when it was all the idiots who missed the fucking point and imitated it poorly responsible. It's like a bargain basement Morrison plotline.

>>82989873
I don't read much marvel but I know they don't make shit as convoluted as this do they just say ok we are retconing this or do they offer an explanation and manage to do it without going full retard.

I prefer the former but the later is still preferable to the shit dc pulls

>>82988179
He adopts old, dying dogs to give them a comfortable home in their last days.

Won't this alienate new readers? How do you explain to some kid who watched some DC cartoons maybe the Snyder movies who Superman is in comics now?

It's annoying as they spent half a decade selling Superbro to us telling us he was the Pre52 Superman just with a new history/memories like after the COIE. Now they're nuking him..

And the Watchmen thing is awful and makes no goddamned sense on so many levels.

>>82990006
They just ignore it unless its Ewing

Is Snyder's Batman still legit?

>>82989974
Separating the art from its reception has always been a fool's game.

I feel sorry for people who maintain DC wikipedia and wiki pages. Imagine how much of a clusterfuck trying to write a characters history will be now even more so.

>>82990039
It's time to stop pretending new readers are numerous enough to affect sales. Bringing back the people the Nu52 chased off, if it chases off the younger folk Nu52 attracted, is still an overall gain.

>>82989759
Ah, Marvel wouldn't try to fix what everyone is complaining, they would push it HARDER and them have one panel with a character being a strawman, and other panel with a character complaining about silly white nerds.

What DC os doing is just pandering.

>>82989062
Lois is trash though.

>>82989974

As someone who dropped most of DC except a handful of books like Batman, Justice League, the odd Superman book, and a few issues of Midnighter; this just gives me a big fucking headache..

Also means any hope for the WildStorm characters being unraped is gone. Not that WildStorm hadn't already broken them itself.

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>>82990006
I don't actually mind convoluted shit, if I'm sitting to down to read superhero comic books, that's the point I'm making.

Plots being convoluted to the point of faintly ridiculous is a classic feature of the genre. So attempts to remove it are like kind of bastardizing what we're reading about.

>>82990131
You're not the readership we want.

>>82990077
>post his face when the guy that maintains the wiki on Hawkman's origin comes into work to see this news

>>82990148
I am in the same boat as you (I stopped reading after Convergence), but honestly this sounds exciting.

>>82990169
I actually don't think I know anyone who likes Lois though.

>>82990159
I don't really mind convoluted shit in general I just hate the way dc does it with there multiverse or more specifically using the multiverse to explain there reboots and retcons

>>82990006
Marvel makes changes by going, "it was franklin/moleculeman/magic, we don't have to explain shit" and then pretending it never happened. DC calls attention to it and builds the entire structure of their universe and their events around it.

>>82990290

DC write more stories about stories than actual stories.

>>82990318
Example being the current retcon with Hank Pym?

>>82990318
I prefer marvels way

If I could get marvels retcons with DC's everything else I would be ecstatic.

Even better if marvel gets to keep there retcons instead of switching to dc style

>>82989724
Thank, I could not understand what was happening. Superman is fine, but how there can be two different Lois?

>>82990290
It's not even that convoluted most of the time. From everything I've read, Rebirth actually sounds pretty straightforward as long as you have even a cursory familiarity with DC lore. Sounds like you're making it worse in your head than it is.

>>82990425
Oh sure I can understand it a lot of the best story's I have read are far more confusing but this shit is just so fucking unnecessary

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Wait.

Does this mean Wonder Woman is made out of Clay again? Because the Azz's WW run was the BEST part of the Nu52.

I hope they dont make her dumb clay again.

>>82989873
They stil have Peter and MJ married to this day, they just demoted the concept to the newspaper strip, which you can read online anyway.

>>82990460
>Azz's WW run

It was a bad run and you should feel bad.

>>82990460
Rucka is writing a Steve and Wondy adventure.
Get hyped bitch

So is Killing Joke canon or not now?

>>82990460
No, they reveal she has a twin brother called Jason

>>82990460

I don't know about making her clay again, but the artist implied that Rebirth Wondy is now thousands of years old, like in the movies.

>>82990473
Call me when they do that again in 616-8.

>>82990502
It's canon.

>>82990460
Of course, only Johns' changes will remain

>>82990502
I think it is, but it's not necessarily the original Joker that crippled Babs

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>>82990248
No you know.

>>82988438
Basically this. Aquaman stayed with Mere the entire time in the Nu 52 and he's the least changed. Bravo Johns
The same goes for Batman for his love with the Joker

>>82987365

The only thing that makes me happy about this is that DC is finally recognizing that The New 52 was a big fucking mistake. It took away most of what made the DCU truly great and gave us an empty shell of a universe.

Though I can't fucking understand how the fuck Pre-Flashpoint Superman and Lois are there if there was a new Superman in the N52 universe. Isn't N52 supposed to be the same universe as Pre-Flashpoint?

>>82990008
He has a death fetish then?

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>>82990203

I'd have a much easier time being optimistic about this shit if they hadn't already released post-Rebirth solicits that basically confirm my fave characters are still fucked.

>>82988938
This basically

Shitty Logic will be ignored because YAY OG TITANS YAY OG WALLY YAY OG SUPERMAN

>>82990700
clayface is part of the batfamily now?

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>>82989029
New 52 Superman was a rookie that was slowly evoling into pre Superman that we al know and love. This can be seen in the Truth arc. Sadly Nu Superman loses his fucking powers again right when he's starting to act like the old Superman, because "not muh".
Superfags are just as bad as Batfags
Jokes on them since Superman didn't get his precious fucking red underwear again.

>>82989202

That's what first came to mind, jesus fuck how is Hawkman gonna be reconciled here that they are bringing all the old insanity back but apparently keeping the new stuff too.

>>82990747
You didn't read Batwoman?

>>82988938
So why do they insert the shitty logic in the first place
Hell half of the problems don't even need retcons to fix and can't you just flat out state the parts that do never happened.

>>82990700
>All the shitty legacy Bat-characters off in their containment book.
Where is the problem?

>>82990759
>implying anyone gives fuck to write Hawkman

>these mental gymnastics solely cause DC couldn't be bothered doing a full reboot back in 2011
Why?

>>82990759
The copy pasta will have to tack on another paragraph stating the nu52 origin and then another paragraph stating how that origin was falsely created due to Dr. Manhattan.

>>82990700
>Cass is back
>her name is orphan
T-thanks Dc

>>82990766
Nobody read Batwoman after Williams left.

>>82990766
I am sorry I hate Batwoman.
I didn't like how they tried to push her as "better than Batman and with no ties to him, totally her own character!" at the start

>>82990780

They're the shitty Nu52 versions of themselves, that's what.

>>82990757
Batfags can actually accept change.
Superfags and Wallyfags were the one that complained no stop

>>82990824

Cass is not back. They made an entirely new, much shittier character and just called that Cass instead. It's the Wally West situation, only without a raceswap.

>>82990780
The problem is Barbara still has a book and isn't with them in the shitty containment book

>>82990871
>Batfags can actually accept change.

Why do you tell lies like that, anon?

>>82990801
No balls.
Imagine a complete fucking reboot:

Batfags cry when Jason/Tim/Steph/Cass/Damian are all written out of continuity. They cry even more when Dick is de-aged to a 12 year old.

Suddenly Hal is the only Green Lantern again. Kyle fans would never stop whining.

>>82990921
cassfags and stephfags excluded

>>82990833
>better than Batman
post scans where that's a thing because it's not

>>82990954
>Jason/Tim/Steph/Cass/Damian
>Batfags

those people don't care about Batman

>>82990871
>Batfags can actually accept change
Meanwhile there's tons of people who haven't read Grayson and shit all over it because he doesn't have the name Nightwing and isn't wearing blue fingerstripes
And /co/ can't accept Duke replacing Damian as Bruce's sidekick, and some people still aren't over Tim being replaced as Robin.

>>82990990
>haven't read Grayson

Lucky them, what a shitshow.

>>82990978
I mean the way editorial tried to push her

>>82990954
I know. It'd be glorious.

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>>82987365
>mfw I try reading about this whole continuity clusterfuck
This must be what casuals feels like all the time

>>82990954

Dude, if it was a complete reboot, Batman and Superman should have been put out of continuity. Bruce Wayne never existed. Krypton doesn't exist. No Green Lanterns, no WW, no Flash, nothing, every name and IP and trademark erased forever. THAT'S balls.

>>82990871
>Batfags can actually accept change
lmao

>>82990757
>Sadly Nu Superman loses his fucking powers again right when he's starting to act like the old Superman, because "not muh". Superfags are just as bad as Batfags

Superfags has nothing to do with this. This stuff is kind OMD, something that writers want. Most of the readers were fine with Nu 52 Superman.

>>82990990
But those people don't care about Batman, they care about those other characters. Call them Dickfags and Damianfags.

>>82990911
>Barbara
I said shitty legacy characters, not iconic, definitive-versions-of-said-legacy characters. Cry about it.

>>82991009
Oh fuck off that's also not a thing. Can you actually not handle an independent female batman? I'm being serious

>>82991009
Ok show press releases where editorial stated that.

>>82990960

There has never in all history been a single comic book fan who was capable of accepting change, and never will be.

>>82991041
>Most of the readers were fine with Nu 52 Superman.
Bullshit anon. People have been hating on nuperman since the beginning. Fuck there are still threads on /co/ about where people bitch about him.

>>82991029
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm2D7ohWos0

>>82991063
I can handle legacy heroes if they pay respect to the original ones

>>82990638
>
>The only thing that makes me happy about this is that DC is finally recognizing that The New 52 was a big fucking mistake. It took away most of what made the DCU truly great and gave us an empty shell of a universe.
You mean underpants?

>>82991088
Those people aren't readers, they're NOT MUH wikipediafags

>>82990638
>It took away most of what made the DCU truly great
A few great writers here and there doing their own thing?

>>82991004
Grayson is the second best book DC is publishing right now.

>>82991059

There is nothing "iconic" about Barbara, she's a shitty flavor-of-the-month Batman fangirl. Every issue she ever appeared in was a mistake. True fans know that only characters DC should have are Batman and Superman.

>>82991088
>People have been hating on nuperman since the beginning.

People have been hating on the entire nu52 since the beginning.

>>82991099
They're fictional characters mate, seek help

>>82989370
God fucking damnit Rucka

>>82991099
But she isn't a legacy and isn't better than Batman

>>82991132
I respect your opinion, even if you're from Bizarro Earth.

>>82988014
Is this confirmed or it's just some fan canon you're making up? Because that would make sense of why they're bringing Pre-Flashpoint Supes as the regular one (this was his universe all along, just that everyone has to regain their memories about it), even though I'm having a deja vu of Spider-Man clones ("the Superman you were reading for the last 5 years wasn't the real one")

>>82991116
>Those people aren't readers

Well probably not anymore, that's kind of why DC's trying to walk back the reboot. Because people stopped reading.

>>82991088
Anon, who criticized were people that not even buy Superman comic.

>>82991144
moar liek flavor-of-the-last-55-years lololol

>>82991170
She is called BATWOMAN, not even the original one, and the only reason she exist is because of Batman. So no, when you try to sell it to me like "nuh nuh guys, she is totally this new indipendent strong character! Uh? Batman who? Never heard of him!" bullshit I am not going to accept it

>>82991227
accept what? That she has her own thoughts,actions, or dependent on Batman? you're being irrational

>>82991175
What are your favorite (non-Vertigo) DC titles, Anon?
Mine are Omega Men, Grayson, Superman - American Alien, and Midnighter.

>>82991227
Her comics were good and this is the only thing that matters. Stop being a retarded faggot.

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>>82987920
>It's a "People don't like Johns for what put him on the map, just the most recent thing he is celebrated for." episode

>>82987365
Not to mention all of the Lantern Corps shit and Batman Inc was all held over from pre-52 continuity.

>>82991287
That she exits and doesn't pay tribute to the original character that inspired her

>>82991337
No, I will not stop

>>82991287
No, the only irrational thing was how she went by the name Batwoman and then her whole story focussed on the fact that she didn't want anything to do with Batman and was an independent womyn who don't need no man.

>>82991337
The art was great, the writing was abysmal.

>>82991373
so you admit to being a retarded faggot? good we're done here.

>>82991331
None, since Midnighter was cancelled.

>>82991406
I was just stating my opinion and you felt the need to offend and attack people, I don't understand why you are having this childish behavior and accusing others of being immature and retarded.

>>82991394
>No, the only irrational thing was how she went by the name Batwoman and then her whole story focussed on the fact that she didn't want anything to do with Batman and was an independent womyn who don't need no man.

That is genuinely fucking stupid. Bitch, you NAMED YOURSELF AFTER HIM. It's too late to pretend you're independent anymore.

>>82991331
>grayson
>AA
>omega men
>midnighter
>he fell for all those memes

>>82991450
Stop arguing with waifufags, dumbass

>>82991394
>No, the only irrational thing was how she went by the name Batwoman and then her whole story focussed on the fact that she didn't want anything to do with Batman and was an independent womyn who don't need no man.
But that's wrong faggot her whole story was her dealing with her family issues and repairing her life. Batman only showed up twice once to offer her a chance to join Batman inc before she was blackmailed to joined the D.O.D and the last time to help her take it down. Read her stories before speaking bullshit

>>82991331
>>82991441
>Midnighter
>good
lol

>>82991331
>What are your favorite (non-Vertigo) DC titles, Anon?

My favorite DC titles are the ones from 2000. Ones from 2001 are also pretty good.

>>82991406
Could you channel your inner-tumblr even harder? Some people don't like your lesbian waifu, get over it. The writing was horrible

>>82991450
it would lend merit if you opinion wasn't an irrational hate boner that makes no sense. I wouldn't have cared if you thought she was boring or too angsty but your coming up with lies.

>>82991394
>independent womyn who don't need no man
She likes pussy

>The art was great, the writing was abysmal
Rucka's Detective arcs were great.

>>82991558
nice rebuttal you really got me with that sick burn excuse while i go kill myself.

>>82991586
>Rucka's Detective arcs were great.
Sure, but her whole solo-run was horrible

>>82991609
>this coming from the person who went "so you admit to being a retarded faggot? good we're done here."

>>82987365
>Batman I guess can retain his history, though with changes (Steph and Cass were introduced again)
>Superman is the old one who came back and the New 52 was a fake one (where the fuck is Conner though?)
>Wonder Woman gets her history back too?
>Green Lantern was mostly the same, so he's okay (who the fuck is Convergence Parallax though?)
>Flash is also getting his history back, as evidenced in the Rebirth special when he remembers Wally
>I guess Aquaman is getting his history back to, though he remained mostly unaltered except for the part where Black Manta killed his son
>I imagine Martian Manhunter will be retconned as being part of the League
>JSA is getting back

Everything is getting back on track finally.

>>82987365
>They stole love from us!!
>Wally becomes black
Im sure there is a deeper meaning behind this but I cant figure it

>>82991698
>Sure, but her whole solo-run was horrible
that could be applied to literally any other character

>>82991705
>I imagine Martian Manhunter will be retconned as being part of the League
>implying they won't be still pushing Cyborg

>>82991750
>They merge Cyborg and Martian Manhunter into one character

>>82991705
>I imagine Martian Manhunter will be retconned as being part of the League
After that sad as fuck run he just had he needs some goodness.

>>82991705
Conner IS New52 Clark maybe?

>>82991750
Well at least J'onn will get back to his old self again, that's more than enough.

By the way, is he in a new ongoing or something?

>>82991144
The amount of bait in this post is staggering.

>>82991733
different wally. black wally is white wally's cousin, both named after their grandfather wallace. it's just everyone's memory of white wally got erased due to weird speedforce shit

>>82991698
>Sure, but her whole solo-run was horrible
Oh wow, might as well throw the vast majority of cape comics into the trash then

I wonder when will someone make something new with The Question, I miss that fucker so much.

Though they're probably bringing Rorschach or some shit instead of him.

>>82991849
>>82991734
You do know that the discussion was literally about someone saying he didn't read her solo-run right? Or did your waifufaggotry made you lose track of things because you were too busy defending your lesbian maiden?

>>82991965
>he is defending a female character, he must be a waifufag!
Go back to /r9k/

>>82991705
>Barry will keep being The Flash, as expected
>Wally will probably take up another identity
>NuWally will be the new Kid Flash
>Original Jay Garrick will probably be back as this is confirmed to be the same old universe
>Jesse Quick and Max Mercury are probably coming back too

Where the fuck is Bart though? And who he will be when/if he comes back?

>>82992026
I just kinda wish they could say the real Bart was in the future with LOSH and Bar Torr was just an impostor or something

Or just ignore all of Lobdell's run preferably

>>82991783
>Victor Stone is terribly mutilated by the Martian when an interdimensional portal accident goes wrong and pulls this lone Martian through the portal and causes him to go berserk temporarily
>The Martian, being essentially a maleable shapeshifter amoeba, takes in Victor and essentially assimilates with him
>The damage to the alien caused by accidental dimensional warpsplicing and being merged with Victor requires advanced cybernetic systems to sustain his life
>Receives advanced nanocloud modular tech that can shapeshift along with his regular body, into various technological devices
>Now has a weird Firestorm-like two-minds-in-one-body deal that adds to the whole trauma of Vic being torn apart and absorbed by an alien and said alien being unable to survive on Earth without the cyborg tech
>Originally just called the Cyborg Martian, he later gets caught up with the robotic Manhunters and becomes the Martian Manhunter.
>Lives an odd triple life where he sometimes uses a secret identity of John jones, sometimes lets Vic take the wheel completely to just be Vic Stone and is also the tragic martian we all know and love

The amount of bullshittery in such an opportunity would be simultaneously horrific and amazing.

>>82991965
Oh no we already established that the dude was a fucking retard posts a go we're just going down the rabbit hole with you guys spewing dumbshit.
>e-editoral pushed
she had only one solo and a small cameo here and there
>s-she's better than Batman
show me where?
>s-she doesn't pay tribute
because she doesn't sucks Batman dick 24/7 she doesn't respect him?
>h-her story focused on her wanted nothing to do with Batman
he only appeared once to offer her membership and another helping her bring down the D.O.D. plus her story focused on her family drama and her getting over loss and trying to move on.
>b-but tumblwr
has nothing to do with this

>>82992121
I can see this happening on that combination earth in Multiversity.

>>82992092
Last time we saw him, he went into the Speed Force. That was in Flashpoint. All it would take would be for him to come back, though the NuWally is going to be Kid Flash, so maybe he can be Impulse again?

>>82992026
There's a LoSH tease in the special, willing to bet Bart is just with them for now.

Can someone tell me how the hell Dr. Manhattan ties into all of this?

Is Watchmen being tied into DC continuity?

>>82992150
>retard
>for not reading something he had no interest in

Nah, the only retard here is you. Keep getting mad because people didn't care about your cheap knock off character

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>>82991148

What if we get Zoom/Kadabra War for real at some point?

>>82992191
In the final issue of Watchmen he says he will create life. In his Before Watchmen mini he creates life. His hand is probably what Krona saw at the birth of the universe.

>>82992191
http://www.newsarama.com/29406-best-shot-review-dc-rebirth-special-1-with-spoilers-10-10.html
http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/05/21/dc-universe-rebirth-1-full-spoilers-leak-online

There are probably others that explain it too

I haven't been keeping up with DC's retarded reboots and resets every five years. Will I understand what's happening if I read this?

>>82992284
Probably? The preview seems pretty straightforward.

>>82987365
Can someone explain what they're doing with rebirth and when it starts?

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>>82992204
again nice rebuttal you really showed me really dissected and destroyed my argument with that sentence.

>>82992325
It's a continuity cleanup like Zero Hour or Infinite Crisis where they write in old concepts and elements again.

There's a one-shot next Wednesday and then the books start rolling out in June.

>>82992325
google

>>82987365
Based Johns uncucked the nu52. Gotta say, that's more than could hope for.

>>82990318

Don't forget petty and childish "It was a doombot/kree/clone" for when a character is defeated but another writer didn't like the way it was handled.

>>82992231
>>82992251
How absolutely pissed off is Moor right now?

>>82992360
>argument
>a guy asked about clayface
>lol you didn't read Batwoman?
>no because I had no interest in it
>REEEEEE! FUCKING RETARD! FAGGOT! EVERYONE SHOULD LOVE IT! HOW DARE

autism

>>82988775
Found the nu52 fan.

>>82992406
Moore himself has said people took the wrong things from Watchmen. I don't know if this would upset him really when it's just saying the same thing.

To be fair, Johns didn't want the nu52. It was the cancerous faggots like Harras, Lee and Bacstabbin' Dan who forced it.

>>82992435
I thought he hated every time it was aknoweledged by anybody

>>82992435
Is he going to be triggered?

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So does this mean we'll get Don and Goody Rickles back in the DCU?

>>82991331
Batman by based Snyder.
Action comics by Morrison
Superman/Batman

>>82993267
>Batman by based Snyder.
How

/co/, as someone who saw some potential for the New 52 canon even if some ideas were poorly done and kinda enjoyed it hoping eventually ideas like the JSA will be reintroduced, try to sell me on this. Are they not throwing out those stories and instead "revealing" them to be the continuation of the Post-Crisis universe with some wonky reality warping making everyone younger and causing a few details to be off? That raises questions but I'd be able to accept it easier I guess but the New 52 always seemed like an AU to me. Kinda like how the Post-Crisis universe is technically an AU from the worlds that created it

What's happening to New 52 Superman and Supergirl? I really loved how New 52 Superman was more like his Golden Age counterpart. Fuck "NOT MUH" people, he wasn't "edgy" later on

>>82993399
Yeah everything new 52 is still canon and still happened. They're just adding the old history and shit back too. Like when Infinite Crisis had the reality punch that brought some stuff back.

New 52 Superman seems to be presumed dead for now but it feels (at least to me) like that's temporary since pre-Flashpoint Superman doesn't have a costume that looks like he's the "main" Superman and pFP Lois in the preview also suggests it's just a rehash of the 90s death arc. And Supergirl is doing shit that sounds like the TV show setup but they're keeping her new 52 stuff as well.

So is Pre-New 52 Superman just regular Superman 'time traveled' forward? And if he's the same Superman, how did he get a new origin?

>>82989401
>>82989423
I think both of you could be right.

>>82993558
That sounds better. There's some New 52 lore I honestly think is an improvement.

>>82992435
No, it's literally saying that Watchmen is the problem, not what people took away from it.

Hell, they even use Wally classic as a mouthpiece to say that Barry's not to blame for him being erased from existence - when what Barry represents (Johns, Didio, et. al's quixotic obsession with the silver age at the expense of the new) literally is responsible for the New 52. They're using Moore/Watchmen as a scapegoat for What Is Wrong With DC Comics.

>>82993648
But its existence IS the problem because of the legacy it left.

>>82993648

should be reiterated that the story they should be blaming is Identity Crisis

>>82993648
>Hell, they even use Wally classic as a mouthpiece to say that Barry's not to blame for him being erased from existence - when what Barry represents (Johns, Didio, et. al's quixotic obsession with the silver age at the expense of the new) literally is responsible for the New 52.
No, Barry represents Johns and Flashpoint. Flashpoint wasn't supposed to be a reboot, Editorial forced it into being a reboot. THis was literally not Barry/Johns fault

>>82993625
Yeah there was good and bad. I think the point is that Johns is lashing out at the idea of a clean wipe. That you can't or at least shouldn't just destroy all the relationships and history either way.

>>82989524
Did that happen in Multiversity?

>>82993648
That's what I was thinking yesterday, since from what people were making out of it (mostly the Newsarama review) it was basically "Watchmen is to blame" (regardless of people trying to regurgitate what Moore and Gibbons did and missing the point, it is true regardless) and then to SYMBOLIZE all that is wrong Watchmen kills the New 52 and so Watchmen is all that is wrong?

Watchmen didn't kill the Silver Age if it killed Pandora/New52, it just fucking killed another offshoot of its mold. It's really reaching to say it's something so cleverly thought that matches all the nuance people are putting into it as opposed to "novel idea, the execution doesn't lend itself to this interpretation much".

>>82993693
But that's not Moore's fault. He's outright stated that he feels that people took the wrong things from Watchmen & TKJ.

>>82993700
Yeah, that's kind of where the rot sets in.

>>82993737
But Johns brought back both Hal & Barry, he's been driven by the same desire for a return to the Silver Age that saw Wally (& his kids) outright erased, Oracle undone (but not TKJ, because otherwise people wouldn't buy it unless it was still in continuity) along with the erasure of Cass, Steph, Lian and who knows what else. Even though Steph & Cass came back, they'll never be Batgirl again (hell, it's looking like Cass will never be Blackbat again).

He's kind of the Superboy-Prime to editorial's Alexander Luthor - he's letting his own desire for a return to 'the good old days' be harnessed for people who have their own (albeit related) agenda.

He might not have been solely responsible for the New 52, but he sure as hell is more to blame for the current state of DC than Alan Moore.

>>82993888
It doesn't matter what Moore wanted from the story, it didn't happen. Acknowledging that doesn't mean it's "Moore's fault" unless you're incapable of seeing cause and effect without assigning blame to the cause.

>>82993888
>loves silver age

no wonder he dislikes Batman

>>82993888
>But Johns brought back both Hal & Barry, he's been driven by the same desire for a return to the Silver Age that saw Wally (& his kids) outright erased, Oracle undone (but not TKJ, because otherwise people wouldn't buy it unless it was still in continuity) along with the erasure of Cass, Steph, Lian and who knows what else. Even though Steph & Cass came back, they'll never be Batgirl again (hell, it's looking like Cass will never be Blackbat again).
I feel like you're projecting

Alright, what the fuck happened? Why is everyone so triggered with Rebirth when critic (as always) praises it?

>>82989294
White Wally West
Bisexual Blaqualad
Trinity of Jokers
Baby Darksied
Wonder Woman's Twin Brother
Batman has a fancy new smiley face pin.

>>82993989
Muh Watchmen aren't supposed to be cannon!

>>82991842
So white Wally is coming back?

>>82993989
People are confused about the plot and what the implications are. Some take it as them completely doing away with the New 52 including the actually good parts for the sake of people screaming NOT MUH.

Is there a torrent for everything before new 52?

>>82994022
Yup.

>>82994022
Was it not obvious after the Flash and Titans solicits both mentioned a huge spoiler and you had to read the Rebirth Special first? Or after future Flash solicits mentioned black Wally being mentored by some unnamed speedster? Or after Titans Hunt teased Wally for ages and then the last page had them acknowledging that they had another member that they couldn't remember with the last panel being a shot of lightning? Or after DC lifted the embargo on Rebirth special spoilers and sites published the preview narrated by Wally himself along with spoiler reviews? Come on now.

>>82994119
You will have to look for individual character chronologies most likely. There's nothing with everything as far as I know.

>>82994119
I haven't found anything decent if you're talking all the way from the start of the Golden Age. No idea for Post-Crisis. Marvel seems better collected in torrents for each year of publication. Would love to see something too

>>82993989
>MUH WATCHMEN
>OH NO NOT BISEXUAL BLAQUALAD DC DOESN'T PANDER TO SJWS

That's about it

>>82993994
>Baby Darksied
Wait what.

>>82994123
As he was, pre-family man or Kid Flash again?

>>82994171
Kid Flash. Met Linda and she was "who the fuck are you".

>>82994171
Kid Flash body with family man memories

>>82994198
Wally remembers, she does not.

>>82994211
>Wally remembers, she does not.
Yeah, that. Which gives us that idiotic Hawkman plotline.

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>>82993361
What do you mean by this?

>>82994143
>Implying I read shit Barry when I grew up reading Wally
>Implying I've read Titans Hunt when I haven't read any New52 Titans
>Implying I read the Rebirth Special because a reboot seems like a good place to get off the train

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>>82994007
>Watchemen is cannon
WAIT WHAT THE FUCK WHAT????!!!!!!!

>>82994258
>losing faith
>doubting the cereal lord when he brought Wally back once before

We just have to hope he can protect him this time, it seems like Johns has gained a lot of editorial power so maybe it will be fine even if he isn't writing anything. Rebirth is clearly his baby.

>>82993994
SO BATMAN IS THE COMEDIAN NOW?

>>82994266
cry harder anon

>>82988695
This. Hypertime was the best idea anyone ever had.

>>82991178
It's confirmed that New 52 Superman isn't who we (and Pre-Flashpoint Clark) thought he was. However, his real identity isn't confirmed, it's all speculation.

>>82988775
>Being proud of being retarded

why would you do this

>>82989448
>>82989524
>>82989461
What?

>>82994367
Whited Val-Zod, calling it now.

>>82994167
Superwoman's baby

>>82994393
It could be pre-flashpoint Conner. People made the comparison before and New 52 Conner is a clone of Jonathan Kent anyways

>>82989202

I like it at this point. Hawkman should be made MORE complicated

>>82992406
He would be choking in bilis right now.

>>82989213
You didn't read DC comics before.

>>82990503
So what?
She had a twin sister (Nubia) the entire time when she was made out of clay.

Personally I like the original origin. "Child of [insert deity here]" is massively overdone, "magic piece of talking clay" is fairly unique. Also pretty sure it's the origin thought up by the guy who actually created the character. New 52 Diana is so far removed from classic Wonder Woman she's practically a wholly different character.

so al lthis time the JL spent time being friend means nothing
same for Batman/Superman, wow thanks a lot

fucking superfags

>>82994488
I prefer her not being a golem

>>82994521
No, it's the opposite. They're going to be mad at pre-Flashpoint Superman for not being their friend and the fact that he sat out a ton of reality ending fights because MUH FAMILY even though his family would died along with everyone else. Dude is a cunt.

>>82990460
Rucka's first two storylines are dealing directly with what's canon and what's not.

>>82994442
Could be, indeed.
Pity Tim isn't little older/New 52 Supes little younger.

>>82989202
Why?

>>82990990
>Duke replacing Damian as Bruce's sidekick
Oh, for fuck's sake, ANOTHER one??

>>82994447
You want Hawkman to be more fucked up?

>>82994614
Hey look it's one of those what that anon was talking about

>>82994577
If we didn't already see how they're going to handle Tim in Detective Comics, I'd say they could just go back to pre-FP Tim since he sure looked like an early 20s adult by the end of it.

>>82994488
Not only Nubia, but there was that origin of Donna's where she was created from Diana's reflection in a magic mirror, so she was technically her twin there.

>>82990990
This is why we should have had a girl Robin. Damian was controversial enough, literally no one cares about Duke, but a cute new waifu? That would have gone over well.

>>82988879
That's cute, you think the Inhumans have fans.

The only Inhuman anyone gives a shit about is Ms. Marvel and even she became popular before they really addressed her origin.

>>82990983
OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>82993267
Morrison hasn't been on Action Comics for 4 years.

>>82994573
World's Finest public during Darkseid invasion.
But did you see how he burned that arrow that could kill Batman?
>>82994614
All-New, All Different Robin!
>>82994656
We'll have to wait and see. And discuss and bitch.

>>82994650
Dukefrag ´??

>>82994719
We did though and I'm not talking about DKR

>>82991029
This is fucked up as King Crimson powers.
>>82991497
>Shitting on based Midnighter
fuck off retard

>>82994719
Harper should have been the new Robin

>>82990126

THIS THIS THIS we should make sure everything is always something nobody likes! If people like it it's bad! It's f**king stupid to try and write things you think people will like. It's better to write challenging things that people will hate, then you can scare away all the hugbox memers.

That's why based Marvel comics are so good! Nobody fucking likes them!

>>82994764
>All-New, All Different Robin!
Black Lives Matter Robin.

>>82994719
/co/ probably still would've complained about SJW pandering and would've compared her to Steph

>>82990330
>I only read events

>>82994813
Ok now that you say that I'm glad it was Duke.

>>82994650
No, I'm just facepalming at yet-another-Robin.
I liked Dick and Damian as Batman and Robin, I'm no more butthurt about Tim being replaced by Damian as I was about Bruce being replaced by Dick.
It's just that if they don't age Bruce up, the Robin mantle is going to eventually be a six week internship because he'll have more sidekicks than Hank Pym had costumes.

>>82994822
Isn't the outrage thing starting to wear out on them? I hoped people caught on after a decade. It'd be tragic if this works forever

>>82990371
Marvel's way is shit though. It relies on the reader being willfully retarded while they sweep shit under the rug and pretend nobody will notice

>>82994871
White people do not fear Nigers, white people are just tired of giving so much more to Blacks.

>>82994719
No, /co/ is just full of Damianfags and are basically repeating what Timfags said years ago.

/co/ can handle New Super-Man just fine, calling him a potential husbando.
The new Robin being a girl wouldn't change anything.

>>82994871
>hating based Harper

>>82994907
Why is /co/ so gay?

>>82990425
People do that for all comics, especially DC.

>>82994871
I hope Duke and Harper die,

>>82994823
black lives matter activists are racists..

>>82991802
I'm betting its Superboy Prime wanting to be a hero again

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>>82994813
>Turbo Dyke Pierced Marysue Robin
>Nigger Robin
>Muh lesser of two evils

>>82994907
No it would have helped. New Super-Man is a bad comparison first of all, because it's obvious to everyone he's an ancillary character and not a straight-up Superman replacement. And second of all you are underestimating how much /pol/ influences this board to hate black people and the power of waifufags. Let me give you an example:

What if Maps or Cass were the new Robin? Do you really think people wouldn't be onboard as fuck with that?

>>82995003
Holy shit, I would absolutely love that as long as they never made him go full villain again.

>>82995007
fucking niggers send them all to Africa would save this country trillions every year.

>>82993596
No, it's mentioned that New 52 Superman isn't who we (and Clark) thought he was, and that the New 52 World isn't what Clark thought it was (with other pages mentioning that it's just the Pre-Flashpoint world altered by Manhattan).

So, Clark is the actual Superman from the main world, since it's just the Post-Crisis Earth all along, while New 52 Superman is someone else, who took his place since he wasn't around at the time of the reboot due to Convergence's ending.

>>82990983
UNDERRATED POST

>>82995024
And Duke isn't going to be new Robin

Damian is going to be Robin in Supersons and and TT

Duke is gonna be Lark, like in the issue of Endgame

>>82995105
PRIME TIME
R
I
M
E

T
I
M
E
Eh, probably isn't.

>>82995007
He should go smallest to largest so his butt gets stretched out gradually. If Dick goes first he won't even feel Tim.

So, does a majority of /co/ like this merging/backpeddling of the New 52? I got into DC comics because of the reboot, but I'm really happy that they are still bringing back the old universe. Plus, Watchmen is now canon, that is pretty interesting. The only thing that is stupid as fuck is the whole 3 Jokers thing.