So, I have a debate on gun control I'm taking part in tomorrow,

>>727307958
An hero in front of them
>massive keks

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>>727307958

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>>727308117
That's a concept.

say this. "are you willing to die to take away my guns?. becasue i am willing to die to keep my guns" And tell them that guns can work in a society. if schools start teaching gun controll it will - accidents.

>>727307958
There's no chance. Even if you kill it, they'll just start bringing nonsense into the mix.

Steven Crowder has an episode where he covers gun control. For the most part he's pretty on point, and takes a more logical side to it. Look it up. Might give you a few points to go off.

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>>727308271
That's how I figure it will go down. Thanks though

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Bring your firearm. Have a friend or someone else blast in the room in a really threatening manner. Pull out your gun, point and neutralize him with your voice commands ONLY (this is important).

Win them over for ever.

>>727307958
Watch gun debate videos on youtube. Especially ones where the anti gun libtard was owned.

I'm a so called SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR and a communist, and every (anti-state) communist I know is pro-guns. People need to be armed to be able to defend themselves against government (and fascist) oppression!

>Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.
- Mao

>>727308696
Hitler took the guns, Stalin took the guns. Guns are important for freedom.

>>727307958
I'm sure the NRA has a ready to go guide on exactly what you need.

You're welcome.

discuss how important it is to have a well armed militia/minutemen

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>Bring gun to discussion.
>Make caramel colored friend dress up like a terrorist.
>Make caramel colored friend show up at discussion and wave around a gun screaming "Allahu akbar".
>Shoot caramel colored friend with your own gun.

Easy win + you will be a gun wielding hero!

Take your gun with you and point at the others with it and say :
I could shoot you all right now, who would stop me ?

>>727307958
NEVER trust anyone that wants to take away your means of self defense, or protecting your family. The Clintons and Obama have allowed Mexican drug cartels and ISIS to freely enter America and kill citizens.

>>727309028
http://theseattletribune.com/ex-army-sniper-takes-out-neighbors-home-intruder-from-bedroom-window/

Quote the founding fathers. Data on DC v. Heller. Correlation between gun sales going up and violent crime going down. Europe has a higher violent crime rate when you take into account that they count 3 murders as one. The most violent places in the u.s. are cities with gun control (Camden Newark Chicago NYC, DC etx.) More than 98 percent of mass shootings have occured in gun free zones. Cite kathy giffords shooting where man with gun illegally in gun free zone stopped violent shooter GG no RE

>>727308117
This

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHIQtxLCgrM

Piers Morgan Gets OWNED By Ben Shapiro on gun debate.

It sucks. In my high school senior year we did a gun control debate, right after Sandy Hook happened.
It was just my friend and I on the 'pro gun' side and the whole class (Plus the teacher) on the 'anti gun' side.
No matter what facts were brought up, they just went on about "Tell that to the parents".

Emotions do not constitute a debate. I cannot stress that enough, especially when it's the only thing you have top argue your point.
Use facts and logic and reinforce that with emotions if needed.

>>727307958
>Red neck detected

>>727310302
Memorize gun positive facts.

>>727308790
Canada has gun control and is more free than the US, just compare our incarceration rates

Call out emotional arguments. More people die from car accidents, baseball bats, knives and fists than guns. More kids die in swim Ing pools than accidental shootings. 98% of shootings are in self defense sic. Jon lott

"babies can have toys why can't I ????"

>>727308117
this

>>727307958
Go ask /k/

>>727308790
>Guns are important for freedom.

No they are not, there are countries that are a lot "freeer" than the US and they have literally 0 weapons.

Stop falling for this meme you wouldn't stand a chance against the government anyways.

>>727308129
Edge Lord extreme

>>727308367
Here homie. Here's the podcast. If you don't get anything out of it, at least it's entertaining.

https://soundcloud.com/louderwithcrowder/79-islamaphobia-oh-noes-dave-rubin-gerald-morgan-and-anni-cyrus

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>>727307958
Pic related

>>727310388
what are they

>>727307958
Just show how important the 2nd amendment is and having the right to protect yourself. Ask the question what would you do if someone was robbing your home or trying to rape your girlfriend, etc.

>>727308255
>"are you willing to die to take away my guns?. becasue i am willing to die to keep my guns"
>I am ready to kill people over material possesions
You'd get a free ticket into a mental hospital.

>>727307958
1. Put the gun against your head
2. Pull trigger (don't be a pussy)
3. Win debate

>>727310302
Should have said, "But we're talking about guns, not people."

>>727310388
Our argument was showing how "assault weapons" do not exist and are just regular sporting arms with cosmetic features that do not change the capability of the weapon.

That if they ban those, it won't effect criminals or people who have the illegally (As Adam Lanza did, he killed his mother to get the guns). As well as how, hypothetically, if they banned the "evil" weapons that they wouldn't be satisfied and would keep coming after other things until it's a full-on gun ban.
To which their argument was "Why do you NEED...", which just proved my point. They will never be satisfied and will always go for more.

>>727310416
Also good. Point out that they don't care about lives, they only care about guns because they are needlessly scared of them.
Far more likely to die from something not meant to kill.
Another stat they love to fudge is an overall "gun death" statistic which includes justified shootings, police actions, and suicides. Not an overall criminal number.

>>727310405
>more free than the US
Can't make fun of islam

>>727310645
There aren't any, unless they're alternative facts.

Just open carry one on your hip. They will get intimidated and scared and agree with everything you say. That's the whole point of carrying a gun. To enforce your opinion and prove to them that you are not a faggot.

>>727310659
No, he's ready to kill people who want to take away his constitutional rights. Big difference.

>>727307958
take real life examples of gun owners defending themselves successfully in a manner that was lawful (lawful to use deadly force)

contrast with examples of violence that could have been prevented had someone been a lawful possessor (in the home) or carrier (outside the home)

>>727308117
>>727310697
You'll impress them and make us proud

>>727307958

Armed men are citizens. Unarmed men are subjects.

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>>727310862
can't tell if ironic or retarded

>>727310917
bonus points for women and/or children lawfully defending themselves from violence or rape

Everyone fails at what the 2nd amendment is about.

Read it plainly and without leading it.

It states the purpose simple and easily.

Government hates the 2nd amendment for the same reason we should love it.

>A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

>>727310900
>constitutional rights
Nice meme.
You know it says "organised militia" in the constitution right? That doesn't mean everyone.

Guns don't kill people. Paranoid, edgy faggots with vigilante fantasies do. With guns.

>>727307958
Firstly, don't call them SJW.
It isn't a social justice issue. You'd look foolish in front of people for trying to connect the two.

Gun control is about law.
Plain and simple.
The EXTENT should be your focus.

Don't go into the tired old notions of "my 2nd amendment". That's an easy to spot fallacy.
Amendments and a constitution can be changed and ratified.

So you'd lose there.

Don't use scare tactics either. You know-- the entire " criminals vs. civilians" or "soldiers vs. civilians" line either.
The numbers for either side of these arguments can be used for and against the debate. It also upholds the subliminal message that we gun owners are paranoid and prone to violence-- the EXACT thing we don't want.

Do use the following, as they make extremist on either end confounded:
1.) There are already millions of firearms in private homes. Suggest police should up their focus on finding illegal and undocumented firearms.

2.) Probe the other side with questions regrading their stance. Find a weakness and follow through.

>>727308790

The answer to 1984 is 1488.

>>727311035
So you're finally admitting USA is in many ways alike to pre-war Germany?

>>727310659
>fighting for your own possessions is wrong
good goy.

>>727311020

Britfag detected

>>727310787
>believing /pol/ memes
The bill that recently passed was to crack down on a few anti Islam groups that a guy who shot 6 people in a mosque was apart of

>>727310645
That it requires a human to do evil. Statistically, mass shootings are a fraction of a percent and far more people are killed in other ways.
If the problem was just as simple as banning something, then why not ban hurt/killing others?

You can also look up statistics on self-defense. Sometimes criminals are deterred just from the person brandishing a gun, no shots fired.

>>727310987
Armed men are paranoid cowards.

>>727311170
So you're willing to kill a man over your wallet?

>>727311020
this argument always misses the point

a militia is made up of citizens that are otherwise not part of the standing army

the point of the 2nd amendment was not to create a formal "2nd army/militia"

it was to ensure that the average citizen was armed in case a militia - someone other than the standing army- was needed for battle

if what you're saying is true than the 2nd amendment really just means "the army can have guns" which is fucking redundant and retarded

>>727310405

You have less niggers. Give it another two generations with your immigration plan and you'll be begging to come to America where all we have are uppity niggers.

Use Australia as a gun control example. Gun laws here were changed after the Port Arthur massacre which resulted in a drop in suicide by gun by 67% but did very little to drop gun related homicide.

There was an initial drop but it was low and hasn't dropped significantly in the 10 years since.

Gun control laws simply don't have any effectiveness on people who break the law.
"I'm going to go kill someone but I better not do it with a gun because it's against the law"....that type of thing.

Site this story (happened recently) of a 24 yr old killing 3 dindus who were there to rob his fathers house. https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/28/three-burglars-entered-an-oklahoma-home-the-owners-son-opened-fire-with-an-ar-15-deputies-say/

>>727311245
>it's not meant to be taken literally
It's like sunday school all over again.

>>727311179
nope. amerifag

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>>727311069
>That doesn't mean everyone.
Actually, it does.
The militia is the populace of the United States. The everyday people who are expected to protect themselves, their homes and families, communities, and ultimately their nation.
If you're a legal citizen, you're in the militia.

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>>>/k/

>>727307958
Police are almost entirely useless concerning your protection. They are simply reactionary. Police are there to show up at your house and make reports... That is after your home has already been broken into, your shit had been stolen and your wife raped. It's up to you to protect yourself. Police will always be too late. People don't realize, but most crimes go unsolved. Don't become another statistic, arm yourself.

>>727307958
A crook doesn't need a gun to rob you, but you need a gun to protect yourself and your family.
Put it this way, you are at home with your wife and your daughter and 3-4 nignogs barge in flailing their long chimphands shouting stuff about how large their genitalia is (allegedly).
You alone can take 2 of them out maybe, if you have extensive self defense training maybe you can beat all 4, but with a gun you can send them running after dropping only one of them.

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>>727311279
>Use Australia as a gun control example
OP is arguing FOR guns anon, not against.

>>727307958
What is the context of the debate. No restrictions on guns, vs. some restrictions, vs. outright ban on guns? This doesn't seem like a very clear example. Also, what kind of class would have 1 person debate everyone else? Also, why would you ask on 4chan when you can literally just google "arguments for and against gun control" and have everything you need in 10 minutes.
>wait a minute

>>727311319
"literal" meanings are up for interpretation
>it's like english 101 all over again

"militia" is the word we're stumbling over
definition
"a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency."

>>727311119
>literally stay as abstract as you can or they'll see you don't have any arguments at all

>>727307958
go ask /k/

>>727311243
yes. anyone who is not willing to fight for what is theirs, does not deserve to have it.

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>>727311488
>"literal" meanings are up for interpretation

>>727311488
in short, i am taking it literally and you're the one who's putting words in the founding fathers' mouths

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>>727310302
But it can.

This debate circles around law and a very questionable set of circumstances that places us, Americans, in a unique spot unlike other countries.

We pro-gun people, to be honest, aren't coming up with very good reasons as of late. I've become more moderate after I visited a few friends in other countries with different laws on guns (Japan,Germany,Finland,Mongolia and AUE).

They all have different laws and attitudes towards firearms and I see the very stark contrast between us and them.

We make the wrong arguments in trying to secure our weapons (because that is what they are)-- and I have started to question if we are in the wrong mind set.

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>>727307958
You may want to point out the double standard they hold for being pro-choice on abortion, but pro-life on guns. Which do they really think is more important, liberty or life? If it's life, why do they support abortions? If it's liberty, why do they frown upon gun rights?

If you use this though you have to,be prepared to address the same criticism leveled against yourself. Do you hold the double standard of being pro life on abortion but pro choice on guns? If so, this isn't a wise criticism to bring up.

Pic largely unrelated.

>>727311425
Yep. I know this. They don't work. Thats the example. Would you like a circle of paper and some crayons and I'll draw you a picture.
>> Obviously a circle would be best so you don't cut your fingers on the corners

>>727311245
You are not reading the amendment.

It says simply that an individual's right to bear arms shall not be infringed.

The Militia part is implying that a group of people (Militia) have the right to protect themselves from outside threats, including the government.

>>727311488
Oh, we don't have that.

>>727311488
To put into modern English for you dumb hippies.

" well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

>Because you have to have a military to have a country, the people can also have guns.

>>727311555
as you can see, stumbling over the definition of "militia" can cause confusion in an otherwise "literal" interpretation

Remind them that the left uses suicides via gunshot to boost their gun violence numbers. Also after that a majority of gun violence comes from illegally owned firearms. Ask your opponent how making them illegal helps the law abiding gun owner who wants his/her firearm for their protection.

>>727311199
>why not ban hurt/killing others?
Don't you think that's already the case you fucking autist
In what country it isn't banned to kill someone
How the fuck can you be so clueless yet so proud of yourself

>>727307958
>>tips on shutting down sjw kommies?
Hollow tips shut down sjw kommies.

>>727311548
You are born like 30'000 years too late

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"If you how Jews could have stopped the Nazi and the holocaust? If they had guns to fight back, anyone who try to disarm law abiding people is a Nazi"

Now they can't say you are a Nazi

>>727311425
>Australian population in 2012: 22,683,600
>American population in 2012: 312,780,968
Hard to shoot anyone when most people live miles away from each other.

Besides, the real number that counts overall is homicides in total. Not just homicides done with one kind of weapon.
Which the US will still lead at, but that's due to factors well beyond the availability of guns. That's going into problem with economics, social structures, and gang culture.

>>727311628
The issue with this is that it applies as much to,the cuckservatives as it does the liberals. They'd have to address their own hypocrisy to use that argument.

>>727311515
No.jpg

Don't make foolish arguments with hints of paranoia and insanity sprinkled in.

I was soundly beaten in my last debate when I was asked if I thought all weapons are OK to own by the average citizen.

I couldn't answer because either way I was trapped. Saying yes means my view is one of near chaos with citizens owning bombs and tanks.

If I said no, then I would be conceding that my view was the only judgement and that who was I to say which weapon was more dangerous?

I'm in my 30's and have been in many debates about this. I'm giving my advice here on this. We've been embarrassed by the NRA long enough.

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>>727307958

Tell'em how you Obama is going to take ya gunz away.

>>727311822
>per 1 million people
Really makes you think.

>>727311748
Yeah let's create facts out of our ass at that point

>>727311822
In Autralia, there is a very densly populated area in the south east. Even Cities. Like Sydney.

>>727311822
IT SAYS PER 1 MIL PEOPLE ON THE TOP
>hurr durr how do I read

>>727311822
>>Besides, the real number that counts overall is homicides in total. Not just homicides done with one kind of weapon.

It's a gun control debate genius.

>>727311642
That's not what that clause meant at the time. Any historian will tell you that.
The National Guard and the British common wealth militias are key factors in that argument.

>>727311998
This is pretty clear it looked like a weapon.

>>727312149
Well I hope it happens to you someday.

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Bored of snapchat? > s,n.a.p,c,h.a.t,y(.)me can help you today

>>727311628
Kek, no liberal or conservative is going anywhere near that

>>727308790
Hitler had a mustache. Stalin had a mustache. Mustaches destroy freedom.

Gun control boils down to one question: "Do you have the right to live?" If you do then you have the right to defend your life against all aggressors using all necessary force to accomplish this. You cannot expect police to save you if they are 20 minutes away and you need to be able to defend yourself against all threats.

>>727312149
Don't get out of the car quickly holding a black object in your hands. Do we need to teach a class in high school on how to interact with police officers?

>>727307958
Had to do the same thing in college. I looked at USCCA and SCCA who had some pretty good stats about self defense situations involving gun owners/non gun owners.

>>727312267
>>727312203

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>>727310636

Correct, America currently is run by a leader that doesn't represent the majority of the voters! We need assault rifles to take Trump down!

>>727311996
So what are your response to this question now? Just curious.

>>727312267
Since police can just shoot people without repercussion when they fuck up and overreact, yes. We should teach that class.

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>>727311809
you just assume that everyone is civilized like you. but most of the people are not. and they have guns and no second thoughts about using them to get what they want.

if you do not stand up for yourself and forbid others to stand up for themselfs you doom the civilized society as a whole.

thats whats happening here in EU right now.

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>>727311571
If anything I've become more resolved to defend gun rights. In the past I was more moderate and figured "Well nobody needs and assault rifle, so why have them?" then I realized the slope that created. At the end of the day, nobody needs anything more than food, water, and shelter.
But that wouldn't be very practical or fun, would it?

Guns aren't just going to vanish, they have been with humanity for centuries and have allowed the United States to become what it is.
I get that other countries are different because they have their own histories and cultures, which often relied on the government or feudal lords for protection. We never had that in From day one, America was about a men determining their own fate and security.
The gun is integrally linked to that ideal. Definitely not perfect, but so much better than what some other countries have had to experience (or continue to experience).

>>727311755
You've missed the point.
Saying "This is now illegal" does nothing. Criminals don't follow the law.
Murder's already illegal and yet is still happens. So what would banning guns do to stop illegal acts of shooting people? Nothing.

Declare yourself to be a missionary of Allah, whip out your gun and ask them what they're gonna do about it.

>>727312348
Just watch the video, it's very obvious it could be a weapon. Like, that's how the rules work. We need to stop thinking about cops like their some sort of super heroes that can make good decisions and do the right thing, and start thinking about them like their dudes who played football, barely graduated high school, and have guns.

>>727312106
I question why that debate needs to occur.
Regardless of the way it happens, a murder is a murder.
The gun does not matter. Unless these people are hardcore Darwinists that think the physically strong should just have complete control over the weaker.

>>727312380
Everyone who shoots up a school expects to die anyway. I don't care how armed the staff are. Any idiot with a gun could kill at least 5 kids before getting stopped.

>>727311069
Have you read other documents from the time clarifying things in the constitution?
That armed militia is EVERYONE.

>>727312380
>any attempt to harm children will be met with deadly force
>Ameriflaps would rather have bloody sniper towers around schools than ban guns

>>727312485
The guy should have been able to press charges. Especially after they let him just fucking lay their while they comforted the guy who shot him. You can defend them all you want, you just sound like a fucking cuck who likes boots on his neck. Fear is not respect.

>>727312259
Yeah, no. I'm pro gun but that logic is stupid, and if you believe it then you aren't really listening to what the libs are saying. Literally no,one is saying you don' have a right to live. What liberals are saying is that they think people qould be safer if we had less guns. I know that in canada and some european countries their self defense laws get really weird, which is their own issue, but in the US, the gun control debate isn't really about whether or not you're allowed to inflict deadly force to defend yourself, it's about whether or not we'd have less deaths with less guns.

>>727312348
>Since police can just shoot people without repercussion
when has this ever been the case? I cannot think of one police shooting where there was no investigation.
There is always an investigation and if some kind of misplay is shown, then they can be held criminally responsible.

>>727312660
>when has this ever been the case
You're probably white so you wouldn't know.

>>727312660
The webm in question stated that all charges were dropped, I am directly addressing that.

>>727307958


here is how to win the debate:

1) take gun
2) when anti-gun person finishes whining, pull out your gun
3) {everyone panics and runs}
4) shout "i have the gun, i'm in control, i win!" and laugh and you go offstage

(protip: leave empty clip in gun so that you don't accidentally shoot those commie pinkos)

>>727312650
Press charges for what? The police officer has to be more wrong than you to be responsible for the shooting. He quickly got out of the car with something black in his hands, didn't hold his hands up, and didn't follow instructions. Whether you like it or not, it's his fault he didn't do what he was supposed to. He's responsible for his injuries. At least more responsible than the police officer.

>>727312660
>I cannot think of one police shooting where there was no investigation.
>I cannot think of one corporate tax shelter that isn't protected be a legal loophole.
>I cannot think of one guilty criminal who walked free without a judge's approval

>>727312554
A
idiot with gun shoots up school, kills 5, gets shot by teacher.

B
idiot with shoots up school, kills 50 until police arrives to take care of the maniac or he runs out of ammo.

>tough choice

>>727312660
Investigations just result in paid vacation time for the shooting officer. It always comes back as "whoops, i guess i shouldn't have killed him, but it was an honest mistake". We need to look at our police training to see why it's so easy to make that mistake.

>>727312418
>Saying "This is now illegal" does nothing. Criminals don't follow the law.
>Murder's already illegal and yet is still happens. So what would banning guns do to stop illegal acts of shooting people? Nothing.
Couldn't we apply the same logic to drugs and drunk driving?

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>>727310636

That fighting a tyrannical government thing worked out great for the natives. It also really helped the black ones to liberate themselves from slavery and discrimination.

>>727312845
You don't understand taxes do you?

>>727312796
He also didn't get pulled over. If you got in an accident, wouldn't you expect the police to roll up to see if everything was okay? Would your first though be "Oh better not do anything to scare the police and cause them to shoot me."

Police should be held accountable for mistakes.

>>727311996
There is more to define there. What is the average citizen, and what is being defined as all weapons? Are they talking about Average person with 2 kids, owing typical firearms, or are they trying to argue owing a tank?
Additionally, anything can be defined as a weapon. If they are going to consider all things weapons, then they would need to halt knives, hammers, baseball bats etc. Gun control is something that is a false hope. While the law will dictate what can and can't be owned, I can promise there are those people that don't follow the laws that hold weapons that the average law abiding citizen won't own. (Fully auto AK47's for example)
Look at California as an example. They have the toughest gun laws around, and Oakland is covered with guns. So they need to define things a little more. Do I think Mr and Mrs Average should own a nuke, no. Should they own a 9mm to defend themselves? Sure.
How about sports? The olympics have a shooting sport.

>>727312716
As they should have been. It looks like a gun in the video. I've never seen someone hold their wallet with both hands like that.
You cannot crucify someone based on hindsight. In that moment that cop believed it was a gun and acted accordingly.

Here's a recent incident where a cop shot at someone who had their hands out their car window (With no weapon) and it resulted in killing the man's son. He was rightfully charge and convicted because it was a fucking stupid thing to do even in that moment. http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2017/03/27/louisiana-cop-convicted-for-killing-6-year-old-autistic-boy/

>>727312874
Yes. Drugs should be legal. No, drinking and driving is gross negligence and you are responsible for putting others in harm's way.

>>727307958
It's how you keep government in check, pretty simple concept. Why surrender your firearms to people that can decide to put you in a prison camp for whatever reason they think up? Doesn't even have to be true. You see how the sheeple in America believe everything their politicians say as long as those politicians are with whatever party they identify with.

>>727307958
>Karl Marx and the creators of cummunism hated blacks, jews, and Latinos. (Google it)
>Hitler was against citizens owning guns
>one of the reason the Holocaust happened was because they didn't have guns to defend themselves with
>if they disagree they are nazis

>>727307958
If you're going to debate study both sides of the argument. That way you do make all of us look stupid. Talk about the NRA lobbying and dropping funding on gun statistics by 95% know your argument beforehand

The Japanese never made a land invasion of America because "behind every blade of grass, there is a gun"

>>727312656
That's beyond stupid.

Then by that logic tell them guns are re-usable that one gun can kill as many as 1000 guns if you reload it enough times. They are not discarded after firing one time.

>>727312149
Agreed. It's really unfortunate what happened to this guy but I think the horrified reactions I saw across social media for this show a lack of understanding and empathy for the police. From their perspective it's dark out, the guy gets out facing them, he has something in his hands that he's holding in a way that hides it, and he puts both his hands around it in the same overlapped grip you would use to hold a handgun. Even after he's on the ground he puts both hands around it again. Obviously I don't expect him, being shot, to have the cohesive thought pattern or ability to drop the object and lie still, but from the cop's perspective even once someone has been shot and is on the ground if they're conscious they can still shoot back.

>>727312863
What mistake? You see someone get out of a car and point a black object at you.
What do you conclude it is?
Are you going to wait to see if it's a wallet, cell phone, buttplug, or whatever? Great job, you could be dead.

>>727312418
Yes, mirder is illegal nd still happens. So following your implied reasoning for gum control, there's no eason for murder to be illegal, because it still happens.

Fuckface, the law doesn't exist to stop hings from happening, it exists to prosecute people that do the things society says they shouldn't.

>>727311628
You are retarded, those two issues are only tangentially related. Abortions are willfully taking life, whereas pro gun people aren't advocating taking life at all, they are advocating self defense.

>>727311069
it says regulated, not organized, and in the time regulated meant armed

>>727312913
You aren't big on reading comprehension, are you?

>>727313083
^^^^ fact. Any country fool enough to invade the U.S. mainland deserves to lose for being so fucking stupid.

>>727313005
Amen.

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>>727312380

>staff heavily armed and trained

It's only a matter of time before that one choleric teacher everyone hates executes a student for talking back or not doing their homework. Then guns will be gone from schools the next day.

>>727313094
Should we apply the same logic to ordinary citizens? Walk around in a mall and see how many times people pull out wallets. They could easily be guns. A responsible citizen should shoot first and ask questions later, right?

>>727307958
>needing guns in the first place
What´s up, savages?

>>727313114
So in the end, gun control does not work.
People still have those guns even when they shouldn't.

You're just disarming people who follow the law and turning them into potential victims that become reliant on others to protect them.
Which is what liberals ultimately want, the government to control everything and have a monopoly on force.
Which is hilarious when elections don't play out their way and suddenly all those powers end up with someone who they cannot stand, like Trump.

>>727313087
I'm thinking you replied to the wrong post.

>>727313001
The guy didn't even get pulled over. He got in an accident and the police showed up to help (kek). Why would the guy ever think that they might shoot him? How ridiculous is that? It's insane. It's insane that people are okay with that when you can get fired from plenty of jobs for much, much less than shooting somebody for no reason in a situation that didn't call for it.

>>727310697
agree

>>727312380
>building sniper towers around schools so people don't shoot eachother
I'd kill myself from stress, or more likely shoot up the school as a form of suicide.

>>727312874
Yes. Drugs are illegal and yet they still make their way into the country where they become easily accessible to anyone looking. Maybe if there was any historical evidence that the government could effectively regulate a ban and control the flow of banned substances I would believe fewer guns would be safer. But there wouldn't be fewer guns, just fewer legal guns.

Dude just be all like "shut up dorks" when they say guns is bads... maybe wear a cut off shirt that has a Miller lite can on it and keep saying shit "waaaaasssss uuuuupppp???!!!" And keep calling dudes on the other side cucks and show your dick to girls a lot and call it your favorite gun

>>727313240
No. They're not interacting with a police officer. They haven't been asked to show their hands. If this wasn't a traffic stop, but questioning a suspicious person in the mall and the police officer told them to put their hands up and turn around, and instead he spun around with a black object from a distance, it's very obvious the police officer could interpret it as a weapon and shoot. Try to use a more apt analogy.
>False equivalency is a logical fallacy

>>727313240
That's illogical. In daytime and clear light you can see it's a wallet.
You also have the context of it. Someone at a cash register is paying for something.
Why would someone stopped by a cop:
-Get out of the car
-Face the officer
-Pull out an object
-Point and raise it

Plus there's the fact police have dash/body cams. They can clearly show what happened.
You'd have a hard time defending "He pulled out a wallet in a mall so I shot him."

>>727307958
I'm a SJW commie who also owns guns and believes in gun rights. Ask me anything.

>>727313136
Yes, because when you poont a gun at someone and pull he trigger, you aren't willfully taking a life.


Dude, they aren't so dissimilar as you think. Both actions are willfully judging that another life is less imprtant that your own, and deciding that the risk tp,your person or lifestyle is too great to let that person continue living.

>>727312877
> implying native Americans with bow and arrow and black people with no weapons at all is somehow equivalent to half a nations citizens with assault weapons.

How fucking retarded are you?

>>727313296
Police have to be on alert at all times. When they let their guard down and get sloppy, they get killed. You have to be prepared for any situation at any time and in the current anti-cop climate we're in, any reasonable person would be cautious of someone with something in their hand, holding it up.

>>727307958
"Shall not be infringed"should be enough. But then again liberals don't even have common sense or respect for laws. It's literally all about feelings for them.

>>727313282
nope, you said less guns less deaths. I argued the inversion. one gun = just as many deaths as many guns. Thus I disproved your statement. Go research how to debate before you talk shit on /b/

>>727313296
Maybe because shit like that has happened before. Cops getting lured into ambushes and then shot.

>>727307958
Be sure to shout over the other participants, and use every logical fallacy in the book. No reasonable or valid point they make can be conceeded. If it's in agreement with what you've already said, say the opposite and claim that you never said it. Also try to spend the entire time forcing them to redefine the entire fucking language. Constantly accuse them of being the only ones doing this stuff. This is the tried and true approach to debating for right wingers, and you are sure to win these people over, and make friends.

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>>727312106
You need to think further than 2 feet ahead you fucking liberal commie.

>>727313456
How can I be expected to see it's a wallet in the split second I need to defend myself? It could just as easily be a terrorist with a gun disguised as a wallet. Why should I take that chance when my life may be on the line?

>>727313280
>why implimemt traffic laws? All you're doing is hampering safe drivers who need to,be able to respond appropriately when a reckless driver comes along

>>727312304
Good luck with that, I'd be willing to bet most guns are owned by those who voted for him. You didn't think this through did you?

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>>727307958
You cannot reason with unreasonable people. You are wasting your time. Although there are some coherent stances on the other side... It is usually childish baseless banter. Give your stipend to the NRA lobbyist, educate the middle of the road people, and ignore the liberal retardation.

>>727313533
Police do not have the right to just point and shoot anytime they get scared.
Nobody is born a police officer. It's a fucking community service that people elect to take on as a job. It's a job with a lot of responsibility, and those that take it on should be respected.
But if you're too afraid to do the job, get a new one. Nobody makes them do it.

>>727313636
CONTEXT
You stupid fuck. Go ahead, take that shot thinking you're showing some kind of legal loophole.
You'll just end up in prison. Or shot by someone who suddenly see you draw and shoot some random person.

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>>727312635
>>727313237
stop beeing retarded.
many schools already have armed guads, but for other reasons ((sand)niggers).
theres no need for overkill security, but a teacher with a sidearm and training every couple of weeks will be enough to stop or at least stall any attacker.

>>727313237
"we cant keep all the illegal immigrants out, so lets just abolish all bordercontrol."-level argument.

>>727307958
Shoot yourself thirdworlder.

>>727313636
They do have guns that look like cellphones these days, so this is a good point. Any smart person dealing with the police wouldn't have anything in their hand unless the police specifically told them to get it.

>>727313551
Not big on reading comprehension, are you? I as never sayong that less guns means less deaths, I was saying that's what liberals think, which is true. Make sure to read a post thoroughly before responding, it helps you avoid looking silly like this.

>>727313738
>many schools already have armed guads
They don't have those in Europe. Guess why.

>>727313415
And then be all like "dude guns even look cool as shit too bro" then high five a Vladimir Putin cardboard cutout you made at home... wear a Hilary for prison shirt... fart the alphabet

>>727313680
False equivalency. Also, maybe you're right. Maybe the government shouldn't regulate road ways. They seem to do a shitty job doing it. Maybe they should auction the roads to the highest bidder, and privatize them. That might be better.

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>>727313738
>many schools already have armed guads
And Ameriflaps choose to live there...

>>727313731
A cop pulling someone over and asking for a license is just as valid a reason to pull out a wallet as paying for something at a mall. What's the difference?

>>727313822
You don't have niggers?

>>727313839
I laughed. Sorry, didn't realize what you were doing till now. It's been fun.

>>727313922
We don't have as much racism.
We have people.

>>727313815
and... I told you how to respond to them to win your fucking debate.

>>727307958
A government who doesn't trust it's civilians to have guns, shouldn't be trusted.
SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED
People kill people not guns.

>>727313838
Maybe fuck some hot skank on stage too and be like "this is what fake news don't want you to see" and then be all like "Hitler did nothing wrong"

>>727313839
Enjoy the $5 toll on the Coca-Cola bridge you have to take from your house to work.

Appeal to the safety of women and the physically frail.

The gun as the great equalizer.

Also bring gun defense statistics.

Also bring up how gun control does not work, and some of the places with the most gun crime have the toughest laws.

When gun control is issued the murder rate does not decrease, just the weapon used.

>>727313908
They didn't instruct him to provide his wallet. They instructed him to show his hands and he didn't. Follow the fucking instructions.

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>>727313525

You are missing the point dipshit. Why didn't all those freedom loving, tyranny hating, gun owners pick up their guns to fight the injustice that was done to the natives and Negroes? Because the aren't so freedom loving after all.

Giving a bunch of dipshits guns and assuming they will automatically do the right thing is so fucking naive and retarded only the slave owning nigger fuckers that founded the USA could come up with it.

>>727313727
Actually if they have any reasonable fear for their life, yes they do have the right to point and shoot. Again, in the current climate where so many police officers are getting killed almost weekly who would want to take the chance? Better safe than dead. He shouldn't have had something in his hand, period.

>>727313725
I don't love the NRA all that much.
They've certainly become better than they were, but in the past they were all fine with giving up things just to keep them rare and expensive or had a fuddish attitude.
Because they got burned so badly they wised up but I still question them somewhat.
The educational and safety stuff they do is top notch though.

>>727312877

The black ones weren't liberated until the North did it. Incidentally a lot of guns were involved in that.

>>727313973
Sounds better than the amount of money the federal government steals from me to drop bombs on other countries.

>>727314026
I'm not a big fan of them, but to be blunt it is the most relevant people gun lobbyist. That's why I give them money.

>>727312328
Thanks for asking.
I spent a long time (6 years) thinking on that particular question.
As I said earlier, I have become moderate in my position. World travel and meditation on the subject does a lot. I mean that in the reflection sense, not zen.

I've come to a point were I think that we can agree to be sensible on the issue. Both sides, that is.

We cant ban guns outright. Besides moral reasoning, we have to accept the reality there are millions of guns in America right now. It'd be impossible to round em` all up.

But at the same time, we need to agree on more stronger laws that protect everyone. IE-- no guns for people who are mentally sick, fellons and schools.

We need to agree that a drum mag has no business being on a household weapon. But we also need the country to start feeling as if we are looking out for each other, helping each other.

I noticed on my travels that other countries feel this. In the US, we all scream about "ME!" And "MY rights" and "everyone for themselves!".
That creates distance and suspicion.

My grandfather was a WWII vet. He said when he got back home from the war, around the mid 50's--- everyone's sense of togetherness left, although he did also say we were also racist at that time, but you get his drift.

He said people cared leaa for their neighbors and more about money and irresponsibility. He pointed out how our generation wants everything without responsibility.

And I noticed that too about the NRA over the years. I used to be a member. The warcry of " we are responsible gun owners but don't want the responsibility " became silly to me.

We need to be reasonable. Not silly.

>>727313636
This is why liberals really want to ban guns: They think everyone is as paranoid and violent at they are.

>>727314099
But that's just the bridge, anon. There are many roads between you and your destination.

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>>727313822
we do. police cars park around schools in berlin and other hotspots.

and security firms offer property protection services with riot geared personel.

oh and we have strikt gun control, but only for the law abiding citizens.

>>727313966
>thus I disproved your statment
>rekt, git gud scrub!
Yes, you were clearly just trying to help me out here, and it's not at all the case that you just didn't read carefully and now you're desperately trying to salvage this.

I as never "debating" a liberal in the first place, I was talking to a conservative. Just move on and read more carefully next time, it's not that big of a deal.

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>>727313710

>Good luck with that, I'd be willing to bet most guns are owned by those who voted for him. You didn't think this through did you?

Yeah man, all those militia men have trained for eight years and they are fucking ready to defend Tump!

>>727308790
Hitler actually expanded gun rights for Germans that the Ottoman empire took away.

Stalin armed the partisans.

muh evil bad guys took muh gunz away meme

>>727313998
I guess we just disagree on the definition of "reasonable."
I'm fine with that. Farewell, anon.

>>727314203
What if they grossly increased the price? Do you think people would drive less? What if they didn't maintain the road? Would people take alternative travel routes? Would people travel less frequently if it was too expensive? It's like competitive forces or alternatives wouldn't exist?

Tell them governments want a monopoly on violence.

>>727310416

>baseball bats, knives and fists than guns
bullshit.

>98% of shootings are in self defense sic. Jon lott

bullshit. I'm willing to bet most shootings are suicides or gang violence

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>>727313980
"God created man, Sam Colt made them Equal"

>>727314118
I hear you. Not perfect, but the best we've got.
And it's through regular gun owners that they will improve even more.

Go with the reason we have guns. People aren't inherently good at defending one's self. Even when the perpetrator is a male against the naturally weaker female. Guns equalize the playing field.

>>727314351
And that's fair. In a split second between life or death, I just think it would be reasonable. I can see your point, however. There really is no right answer for this. I really do appreciate a good debate without name calling though, especially on /b/. Thank you anon.

>>727313240
Cops literally go from danger to danger day after day. Fuck off retard.

>>727314442
>Would people take alternative travel routes?
>implying one company can't own all the roads in an area
Would people travel less?
>Implying you can always choose when to travel

>>727313237
Nope. They will argue to arm the kids. Those fucking Sandy Hook kids basically committed suicide because they were too stupid to arm themselves.

>>727307958
If OP is still here, all these point are excellent but most importantly make sure to be able to cite your sources. Bring printouts of articles/statistics to the debate to use for face checking yourself and ESPECIALLY to fact check your opponents.

>>727314442
You should move down to Houston and try to get around any way other than driving. Some cities are not built for alternatives. And if you want everything privatized, that sort of rules out public transportation.

>>727307958
This is why American debate culture is so wrong. Instead of thinking about which side is right both sides just ask for the arguments that sound the most convincing online

>>727307958
guns produce less deaths than knives do.

>>727307958
Shall.
Not.
Be.
Infringed.
Bitches. :)

>>727314975
>:)
Kill yourself.

>>727311548
Anyone who blames victims should not be allowed to live.

>>727312716
Charges were dropped because the courts found that the officer operated under a reasonable assumption of threat. This isn't some good ole boy network letting one of its members slide, he lost an appeal at the federal level over a case that wasn't even tried in the same state as the shooting. His only other choice of appeal is to try to get the Supreme Court to hear the case. Considering he's already gone through multiple courts that have repeatedly said the same thing, what exactly are you looking for?

>>727313504
When someone threatens another's life they lose their right to live you hippy. The world isn't some gumdrops and rainbows paradise. The vast majority of legal gun owners have never shot anyone.

>>727315179
...Or ever will

>>727311998
Who?

>>727311998
How is that fat fuck a police officer

>>727307958
A few but none you can use.

I am a libtard AND gun owner. We totally exist. Have my CCL, carry everyday but i am okay with more gun control/regulations.. mainly for the purchasing of firearms.. BG checks and such.

Yet, on my pro gun side, here is something i want to see... for all of these other countries with super strict gun regs - how do the stats compare for armed robberies, home invasions abductions etc.. basically the types of things that we gun owners carry a gun to prevent. I would imagine there are spikes in those areas of crime in countries that have strict gun regulations for its citizens who cant defend themselves? I could be wrong.

>>727315179
I know. I own 4 guns, and quite enjoy using them, so you don't need to defend gun owners from me, I am one.

I was never saying someone has the right to live if they're threatening you.

>>727312877
Turkey.
Honestly I agree that the native americans didn't deserve to have their land stolen but if you look to other parts of the world you will see that there was no difference between the creation of america and other empires/countries.
It's simply the way the world worked up until very recently, in fact it probably will prove to still work like that.

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>>727315149
i agree, since i'm beeing robbed, i am the victim. dont blame me for shooting the nigger, i wouldnt have shoot the nigger if he didnt try to rob me.

>>727313996
> you're missing the point

Well no shit, since you made an entirely different point out of thin air.

You are irredeemably stupid.

>>727315152
I think if I got into an accident and the police showed up, they'd probably be there to write an incident report. I wouldn't think they would have their guns drawn and be ready to shoot me at the slightest notion that I may have *something(?)* in my hand.
I would probably be shaken up from the auto collision, and might not have the forethought to consider the poor, frightened officers that have arrived to help me.

You can point to the legal proceedings ad nauseum, I'm saying that it's not right. Just because something is legal, it does not make it right. This is why we evolve laws over time.

>>727307958
https://munchkinwrangler.wordpress.com/2007/03/23/why-the-gun-is-civilization/

>>727312650
Everyone knows to wait in your vehicle for the officer. Aggressive moves toward police will have poor out comes.

Maybe you can be the tough guy that you are and try this after being pulled over. Assuming, you leave mom's basement.

>>727315179
When you hear of someone shooting someone else you take it as all gun owners being irresponsible or violent because the bad stuff goes around, but you don't hear about gun owners that don't do anything bad. It's stupid to not understand this, but most people just don't take the time to think that there may be thousands of gun owners around them that they won't ever know about because they just don't go flapping them around.

>>727314847
Private buses?

If there are 30 students in your class, bring 30 rounds of ammo.
>> sit in front of them
>> put your concealed weapon in front of you
>>line up 30 bullets in front of them, count them one by one as you look at each one of them.
>> stand up, ask them to face their desks (look down)
>> tell them "I am an intruder that just entered your home through the back door"
>> "I have an illegally obtained gun (obviously, as I am a criminal and my intention is to steal whatever I want, and if I can I would gladly rape your sister or your mother) ...do this as you point your concealed weapon to their heads
>> if any of you move I will shoot, and will keep killing until you bitches are all swimming in your family blood, then I'll keep raping you
>> "I will now let one of you call the cops, but in the meantime I'm going to go ahead and rape you (slightly bump your gun on a pretty face democrat girl), you, and you"
>> say to the men "how tough are you now mother fuckers huh?"
>> "are you feeling the bern yet?"
>> Take your CW and pretend you Kill some of them
>> "I still have 25 bullets and cops are 3 minutes away, and probably around 15 minutes before they actually find this classroom and much more before they dare to come in, I have plenty of time to kill each one of you if I wanted to."
>> creepingly put your face against some girl that is clearly upset about your presentation
>> "Do you want me to stop?"
>> "nah nah nah you can't.... you can't ask me to stop. You are powerless, you are defenseless, social justice didn't make it here today. I am a criminal, a murderer. Where are your gun laws now? Gun laws are not for me you dumb fucktards"
>> "but you fuckers are lucky because one of you has a CW"
>> "at the beginning of this class I placed 1 gun in one of your backpacks
>> "you now have a choice to either use this gun against me or slowly see everyone die one by one"
>> you have a choice now, a mean to defend your family and yourself... would you?

mic dropped.

Pro-gun liberal. I might be able to speak for the crowd you're talking to. Are you're trying to win converts, or you just want to feel like a big man with your dick in your hand? I'm assuming that you, OP are a decently reasonable human being outside of the 4chan echo chamber so we'll start here:

1 - If you're carrying, conceal. Your job as a speaker is to make sure your audience understand what you're saying. Sure the audience is 50% of that, but if you don't speak their language and utilize their symbolisms, (Remember, guns mean different things to many, of those left-oriented, than they do to you, or me.) you're going to further entrench them in their position. So if you're waving your peice around in the air like an inbred retard, expect to gain no ground. Also expect to potentially get arrested.

2 - Don't immediately announce your contempt. Again - this is part of being an effective speaker. If they feel like you're talking down to them, their ears shut. Everyone kinda does this to a point. It's why discussions in a one-on-one sense tend to go better than group discussions.

3 - Pretend you're socially liberal, even if you aren't. If they say that you're a white supremacist, say you support the BPP arming themselves. Even if you don't, it basically lets them know that there are people on "Their" side that are pro gun. This is *fucking important* because people will not at all listen to you if they feel like you're on on their side.

4 - Make it seem like it's in their best interest. Hey, y'know - There's a lot of people out there that might want to do you harm. Trumps America - White Supremacists are feeling bold and you should protect yourself.

Anyway.

Happy shootin'.

>>727315922
Will they magically not be paying tolls? Will they not pass this cost onto you, the customer?

>>727312982
Na, man.
You are ignoring the big picture of what that argument means.

We are saying we know better on the deadly nature of weapons.
By doing so, we become unreasonable and deny at the same time that guns are weapons in the same sense.

We need to be reasonable. Not rabidly ideological.

>>727315924
This is how you get expelled from college.

>>727316062
Yes. Exactly. Don't they already do that?

>>727315924
You are a nogunz moron.

>>727316139
What was your point? Have you been keeping up?

>>727313973
Florida operates over 700 miles of toll roads.

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>>727313996
First off, Indians (Fuck PC) didn't even have the wheel, and the law of conquest exists as general rule in the course of human history. Besides literally none of those people who committed those acts are alive today so who the fuck are you even arguing against?

Second America didn't start slavery, we inherited it from where we came from. but the fundamental values of the nation led to its end here. All men created equal and all that.

Lastly KYS commie pinko.

>>727316297
Florida needs better elected officials.

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>>727307958

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>>727310522


>Stop falling for this meme you wouldn't stand a chance against the government anyways.

When you take into consideration that they cannot use major explosives because they dont want to harm their own soil, and any civil war at all would severely damage the economy and the country as a whole, the odds are looking a little better. Look at the first american civil war

Would taking away a freedom be worth an economic crash and massive death count?

One of the most important things is whenever someone calls something an "assault weapon", stop them, ask for a definition, and then write it down.
Do that for every single person that uses that phrase. Compare the different answers and then explain why there is no such thing.

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Call them cucks

>>727315924

This is the kind of inbred retard power fantasy that actually makes the case *against* the 2nd amendment. Yeah yeah, survival of the fittest and all that happy horseshit, but seriously, this tuff-knutz edgelord nonsense just makes you look like a fucking faggot that's never even held a goddamn pistol.

>>727307958

Make the point that denying guns to people, especially veterans, with mental health issues only makes them less likely to seek the help they deserve.

The normal postwar glut of firearms means that it is practically impossible to reduce the availability of firearms, due to simple supply and demand. That the reason people buy guns in the first place is due to fear and lack of faith in public and social institutions. That to attack guns is to attack a symptom but not the cause. What are the underlying issues that cause systemic poverty? Do identity politics erode the trust in fair standards that is the root of all justice?

There was a woman in the Czech republic who shot and killed her rapist, and went to prison for it. According to the law there, she is not supposed to defend herself. It's like rules in elementary school, where you are supposed to tell a teacher and cannot defend yourself, equally absurd, equally effective in teaching antipathy to rules and regulations that serve nothing but vapid principle.

We are also a leading manufacturer and exporter of weapons, it is one of the few industries that still function in our country.

>>727315924
I'll take 'never used a firearm ever' for 1000 Alex.

>>727316231
You pay for them indirectly through taxes. Wouldn't it be better to pay for them directly. Wouldn't the market be more efficient that way? Wouldn't people be more price conscience?

>>727316324

lern2history. Most of europe had already stopped using slave labor by the time the good ol US of A got around to it.

Didn't stop them from -raping the fuck- out of their colonies though.

>>727316655
If you want to pay the true cost for transportation, ask your elected officials to end all transportation subsidies in your state.

>>727316397
>I'll take "shit that never happened" for 600, Alex.

>>727316397
how bout abortion? speed limits? sugar control in drinks & food?
but i like the pool argumentation.

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ignore this guy and go to snap chaty .me

>>727315648
Rule one of interacting with the police when pulled over, even if you called them, is to stay in your vehicle unless instructed to get out. If you watch the full video he immediately started to exit the vehicle when the cops arrive. He also gets out with his hands close to his chest and holding an object in both hands pointed towards the cops. Keep in mind from the time he opens his door to the time he is on his feet facing the cops is six seconds. Six seconds for the cop to try to discern the motive of someone holding an unidentified object and not communicating or following instructions. I know that it's hard to separate emotions out in a no fault situation, because I feel bad for the guy and he also only had those few seconds to react to the cops yelling at him before getting shot, but he made a stupid initial decision. It is/should be common knowledge how to deal with the police. He basically does everything wrong he possibly could.

>>727315149
So its better to have victims, than self protection. Got it.

>>727316415
>Would taking away a freedom be worth an economic crash and massive death count?
Considering that the result of victory would basically be the president (or general, senator, pop star, whoever this hypothetical tyrant is) becoming the most powerful person in human history... Yes. Yes it would.

>>727311199
Don't bring that type of language into it. "Evil" taps into that emotional level they're already on. They can then come back and say kids shooting them selves accidentally and all that which adds more emotional fuel

>>727316846
>They could or could not still subsidize the price. But that's not the debate. Pointing out the fallacy that people think toll roads are unfair but taxes for paying for the roads are somehow better.

>>727315589
> no mag on those MP5
> women can't be trusted with working guns...

>>727310416
Most shootings ARE drug/gang related. Still doesn't change the fact that those other weapons, by themselves individually, are used to murder more often than handguns. The TOP cause of death in America today? Hospitals/doctors/nurses "accidents". All true, due dillegence at FBI.GOV.

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snap chaty .me
>leak ex gf and win

>>727316943
This guy gets it. Treat police like wild aninals. They have a good chance of getting off for their mistakes as long as they say they were afraid.
Never trust the police. Always be aware that they have the power to kill you, and at the very least maim you.

>>727317180
>Most shootings ARE drug/gang related
This is why we need to legalize drugs and gangs.

>>727307958
Don't fucking compare them to cars in terms of fatalities caused.

Don't try to justify ownership with some government tinfoil bullshit

Acknowledge the necessities of background checks (and even suggest better vetting)

Don't bring your gun or any part of your gun, or ammunition or paraphenalia to the debate

Stay away from the topic of suicide. The facts show that a reduction in gun ownership reduces the suicide rate. They often do not go find other ways to kill themselves. If the topic comes up, agree that better mental health services are required to address the problem without agreein that more gun Control is needed

The stupid fucks will likely talk about australia and 'zero' mass shootings. Do some research on that, they actually reclassified mass shootings. Afaik there has been 12 instances of shootings where 4 or more deaths occurred but the updated language artificially changed the perception

>>727317063
>but I never said toll roads are unfair. I said privatizing roads would increase tolls

Also, why are we greentexting?

>>727317104
such 'police officers' were 'guarding' public places in germany after sandpeople attacks.

>>727317351
Police are people. Some people are shitheads. People in stressful situations tend to bond tightly.

Solution? Better training at conflict deescallation and body cams. ALL the body cams. All the time.

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>>727314280
Those five guys will beat pic related 100% of the time. Are you really this stupid? If a civil war broke out between conservatives and liberals it would be anihilation

>>727316352
Well for short distances it doesn't mean much unless you live near vacation destinations. It's mostly to charge target visitors. We have no sales tax on food/water and no state income tax because we have a lot of our taxes pushed onto the snowbirds and vacationers.

>>727307958
free mass-shooting after that an hero

>>727317351
It's not about them being wild animals. It's about them having procedures to follow and citizens needing to understand those procedures and operate within them. As soon as you go out of procedure the police have to make a decision where their lives are at stake and where if they don't act the situation could potentially escalate. They are taught better safe than sorry by years of experience and by the knowledge of how situations can turn bad very quickly. Acting in a way that allows an officer to safely do his job is trusting the police. Acting in an unpredictable way without communicating and expecting the police not to react defensively isn't trust, it's stupidity.

>>727311998
That's what happens when you burst out your car like a fucking muppet

>>727317868
It's not procedure for a cop to bust into your garage at 2am without a warrant and smash your art project. Yeah, most coppers are just doing a job, but you get plenty of shitheads too, and when you got a liscence to kill, you don't get to be a shithead. You shouldn't, anyway.

>>727318069
There has been more than once instance where unlawful no-knock entries resulted in the death of cops and the shooter walked because people have the RIGHT to not have armed men kicking their fucking door in

Badge of no badge

>>727318262
Badge or* no badge

>>727318069
I'm talking about this specific situation. You shouldn't let cops walk all over your rights but there is a time and place to resist and to call for change. And it takes knowing how to interact with officers to facilitate that change. Yes, there are going to be cops that abuse their power. And the fact that other officers defend bad behavior out of a sense of brotherhood is only worsened when we persecute cops who are only acting in the best parameters of their job, as in this situation. Questioning authority and keeping them in check doesn't mean disregarding them or distrusting them or persecuting them at every turn. Those things only make the situation worse.

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>>727316851
who cares if it never happened you shit poster
it would make for a great argument if OP did this
>then it would have happened so fuck your shit post again

>>727307958
If our The Founding Fathers were under gun control we would still be English.

>>727318262
Yeah, good, that's great if you can legally own a gun, but you can't around here, and the cops know it, so tjey do whatever the fuck they feel like. They don't even pay for things a lot of the time because they know complaints don't do anything, and no one has the money to sue over a 5$ pop and candy bar. If cops are acting like offivers of the peace, people should and usually do offer them respect and cooperation. If cops are acting like government backed thugs, they should be shot.

>>727316712
>Tells me to learn to history.
>Britain abolished slavery in early 1800s
>U.S was founded in 1776.
Yeah we ended it a bit later on the timeline, but England/Britain had practiced it for several centuries. We figured out it was wrong within a hundred years.

>>727318383
Could have at least been fired for poor job performance.
>"Well Bill, you're a great cop. We're all sorry to see you go, but you just shoot too darn many innocent people, Bill."
>"Well, that one guy had a knife."
>"Sure, Bill, but he was a butcher in a butcher's shop reporting a robbery. Look, if you need a reference feel free to call me. Just try and relax, ok Bill?"

Maybe if he does it a few more times.

>>727308117what does an hero have to do with his presentation???

>>727318383
It's a difficult issue. It's easy to talk about it in the abstract, but when your friend is getting hauled of for drugs he didn't even have because he back talked a shithead officer, and all those "good cops" are just standing by watching and end up testifying for him, it's hard to say we should just be cooperating.

>Manufacturers should be able to put hand gun vending machines anywhere

Pro gun =/= anti gun control.

I own 5 guns and I believe guns should be regulated.

Children should not be able to buy them.
Violent felons should not be able to buy them.
Schizophrenics should not be able to buy them.

Most gun owners believe in gun control.

>>727312660
Wrong. Police are allowed to get away with all types of obvious bs. They're given a lot of latitude and almost always get away with no real punishment. Rodney King case is a good place to start

>>727318910
Amen!

You can take *my* guns from my cold, dead fingers, but that doesn't mean we should let murderers and crazies have them.

>>727319032
That was decades ago and spurred changes.
Very big reason why there was a push for body cams.

>>727318733
That's my point, it wasn't poor performance. Picking this situation, where the guy only acted as any officer would be expected to, as affirmed by a federal appeals court, as an example of poor police work only serves to make the police more defensive about public persecution. It only weakens the accusations in situations where a cop actually does something wrong. The man who was shot acted without instruction in a way that is out of the norm for a stop on the side of the highway. They called dispatch to inform them of the incident in just under a minute, and an ambulance arrived in about five minutes. And your greentext is entirely presumptive and thus irrelevant.

>>727312877
That's Saudi Arabia right? Or Pakistan? Or maybe Iran? Or Egypt?

So the conclusion I've gotten out of this thread is that no one agrees on anything except that bodycams on cops are good.

>>727312877
That describes pretty much every empire in history.

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>>727307958
>Your home is broken into during the night
>your 9 year old daughter is sleeping in her room at the other end of the house and the intruder is between you and her
>bear in mind that according to CDC and DoJ statistics, there are almost 3 times as many home invasions involving assault and/or rape than there are non-gang related shootings, so this is a far more likely scenario.
Then proceed to ask them if they want a gun in this situation, or if they are willing to risk their daughter for "muh chilluns" or whatever liberal shit they are mouthing off about.

If they say they want a gun in this situation, they shot down their own argument
If they say they dont want a gun, they look absolutely despicable in front of any audience (who are the actual people you are trying to convince)

Id look up the statistics so you can actually have them to hand

>>727310188
>Europe has a higher violent crime rate when you take into account that they count 3 murders as one

because "europe" all operates under one legal framework, does it?

No european nations lists triple murders as a single one.

>>727311748
>Remind them that the left uses suicides via gunshot to boost their gun violence numbers.

the CDC clearly reports deaths by firearm by catogory -
deaths by firearm (homicide) (about 9k per annum),
Deaths by firearm (suicide) (about 21K per annum),
Deaths by Firearm (other)

>>727319211
It's a hypothetical situation intended to have comedic value, don't be obtuse. The basic question was, how many innocent people should a police officer get away with unintentionally shooting before somebody decides that maybe he would be a better garbage man?

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draconian gun control laws will not affect criminals
they don't follow laws
>that's what makes them criminals

>>727316397
underrated post

>>727312877
egypt