The debate continues, which is better?

.40 any day

They're all good rounds. It depends on shot placement.

also,
>inb4 children who are *fart* "experts" in caliber ballistics and physics.

>>724521872
10mm

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>>724521872

9mm for higher capacity and enough to get the job done. Dead is dead, and I'd rather have 17 deaths than 10.

>>724522216
So...
That's another vote for .40?
Or do you not know the history of the 10mm?

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>>724521872
.357 master race reporting from last thread

how-dee-doo-dee boys?

yes i'm ready to keep being mad if you wanna say 233/556 is anything other than garbage

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>>724522425
>no trigger discipline

.22 is enough to kill for fucks sake. Why even argue this?

>>724522352
Ballistics gel has very little bearing on terminal ballistics performance.
Ballistics gel in no way whatsoever simulates flesh.

Plus there are other factors to consider, such as weight, penetration, and number of shots.

TLDR, .45 is shit. Only .380 is worse among the common defensive calibers.

>>724522366
.10mm is best mm >>>>> .40.

>>724522542
ain't my pic, but i chose that one specifically on account of noticing that too, always makes a nice conversation piece

>>724522425
Only retards think 5.56 mm was designed to wound, real gun-users who know their shit understand it's a perfectly good cartridge to kill.

>>724522366
http://gundata.org/blog/post/10mm-vs-40-summary-and-ballistics/

Fuck off faggot

>>724522425

45/70 or go home sissy

>>724522790
>.45-70

now we're talking.

>>724522783
.40 is literally 10mm, but with less powder.

>>724522897
Supposed to be "designed for women to shoot".. probably by some cuck who dug into deep their ass to pull out that shitnugget myth.

At the same time, less recoil, better control, better accuracy, no?

>>724522897
>>724522897

ummmm that's like saying .380 = 9mm = .357sig = .38 spc = 357

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>>724522790
Not using a 28mm wtf

>>724522603
Different calibers for different purposes. For instance, you can get away with with blowing a fag away with a .22 short in a more covert operation, but if you want stout defense or sure-thing cartridges, you use one of the above, also factoring .10mm, .38 special, .357, and .44. Which is best is the debate.

>>724522771
>that awkward moment when the US military states the round was designed to wound

>>724522790
yea okay, when i win the lottery, and can open my own ammunitation production company, i'll start shooting a tryhard-tier round like 45/70

alll joking aside, i repect the round an it's history, but it's been absorbed by the past

357, on the other hand, will never be obsolete as long as firearms exist as we know them

>>724523187
>yea okay, when i win the lottery, and can open my own ammunitation production company, i'll start shooting a tryhard-tier round like 45/70

seriously? Cast your own in 45/70. get your cost per round down to about .12-15. not bad at all.

45/70 does shit .357 has wet dreams about

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>>724523170
Go big or go home, weenie.

My SIG P226 was .40 S&W... loved that gun. That said, it really depends on what you're using it for. Where I live I'm more likely to get killed by a grizzly than a human, so I'd rather carry something with lots of power... If I were looking to kill people, it'd be with a revolver so they couldn't find my spent casings.

I shot a 45-70 in a 16" TC Contender years ago
was not impressed

>>724523187
> [citation needed]
>inb4 google it

>>724521872
Depends on the target. .45ACP is best against an unprotected target. If you have to go through a thin barrier of some kind the extra speed you get from .40 S&W helps punch it through a window or maybe even a car door. If you're a lady or a limp wristed faggot then 9mm is probably going to be your best bet.

>>724521872
10mm trumps all small arms fire

>.40 S&W
>vs a pissed off grizzly bear

well, least you get 15+1 rounds to plug em with.

>>724523352
there is this to consider...good point

>>724523007
>At the same time, less recoil, better control, better accuracy, no?

Implying the firearm build and barrel length don't have a lot to do with recoil. That and not being a limp wristed fucking pussy

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>>724523298
>45/70 does shit .357 has wet dreams about

to be quite frank, and honestly meaning no disrespect to you or the history of the round, i'll take a 12 gauge slug over your cartridge any day of the week

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>>724523512
All about user preference when it boils down to.

40mm

anything less than that is for pussies

>>724523619
anywhere you get hit is going to fuck up your weekend

>>724523619

>not 3"

Peasant

>>724523457
.40 was for women, feg

>>724523619
>to be quite frank, and honestly meaning no disrespect to you or the history of the round, i'll take a 12 gauge slug over your cartridge any day of the week
I'll give you that 12ga has semi available, but 45/70 still wins on penetration with hardcast rounds.

50 BMG

>>724524025
20mm

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>not using .75 cal gyroscopic rocket, armour piercing, fleshbane, armour bane, soul blaze, rerolling to hit bolter of strength 8 AP1

>>724521872
>The debate
>litterally millimeters difrence

mwf only old fags know of the master race .32 special

40 s&w

>>724524226
but other than my baby, .45, classic

>>724524077
Finnish Lahti L-39 <3

>>724524226
>.32 special
sigh.

.25acp > .32 special b/c capacity wins all!

Still .357 mag

Still

Always

>>724524077
Vulcan Cannon

>>724524312
true, but antiques are classy as shit and you know it

>>724521872
None because they can all kill children.

>>724524421
you should buy some

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>>724524421

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>>724523619
>Be me, about 20
>First time I ever fired a shotgun
>My buddy's dad handed me a Mossberg 500
>"Here anon, try to hit that tree."
>Pull the tigger, I'm knocked on my ass
>What the hell was that?
>Crazy fuck crammed a 3.5" Magnum slug in the 3" chamber
>Had to dig it out with needle nose pliers
>"It wasn't this hard to get it in there..."
>My shoulder when I got home and took my shirt off

>>724524461
Children? I agree.

>>724524568
sorry bud a 3 1/2" wont chamber into a 3"

>>724524421
>implying other random objects that can be used as weapons can't kill children

kek bait

no debate, .45 ACP. "Never shoot a large caliber man with a small caliber bullet."

>>724524859
unless small caliber man knows where to aim
>seriously, shot placement, people...

>>724524708
I don't know how he did it, all I know is how hard that fucker kicked back on me and what he said he had done. Even made the remark "Well, now I have an excuse to buy something that can actually chamber a 3.5".

>>724524568
>>724524708
lol this

>>724524421
Injuries due to transportation were the leading cause of death for children.
The highest death rates were among occupants of motor vehicles in traffic.
There were also a substantial number of pedestrian and pedal cyclist deaths among children.

We should ban cars now

>>724524708
>sorry bud a 3 1/2" wont chamber into a 3"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GguN4KyGQCM

@ 2:55

>>724522629
>Doesn't notice that the picture is a joke and the bottom bullet is a nuclear mushroom cloud

>>724523619
I went hunting wild boar with some friends. A friend shot a piglet three times with a slug and it had to be put out with .308.

>>724525036
Actually, start around 2:00

>>724525026
They've been trying that since cars were first invented.

While we're at it, we might as well ban dihydrogen monoxide, because its poisonous and kills people.

shoot a full choke 3 1/2" #4 in a lightweight 12 Turkey gun...sum bitch kicks like a 12 yr old girl scout

>>724525085
.410 slugs don't count as slugs

also your post is bullshit so i don't even know why i bothered crafting that witty and sarcastic response

go home tactifag

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>>724525227
Fuckin tell me about it

I got an 887 Nitro just for my 3 1/2" stockpile. It's only 7lbs, I don't even want to fucking shoot it

>>724524568
>3.5" Magnum

This is the reason the Mossy 835 exists

>>724525353
Only time you shoot the damn thing is when theres a huge gobbler in front of you

>>724522629

--------
| |
------- (You) -----(the joke)

>>724525036
Well, 3:10 mark brings back memories..

>>724525353
jesus man thats a lifetime supply of ammo there

well I guess I was wrong about a 3 1/2 in a 3....still a stupid idea

>>724525511
The whole thing brings back memories

RIP Barry

>>724525548
Not really much if you go out shooting regularly

>>724525160
>ban dihydrogen monoxide,

Man you wouldn't believe how many people Oxidane kills every year

9mm.
Higher capacity .
Lower weight per round means more rounds can be carried .
Cheaper rounds for practice ammo.
More practice means better accuracy/familiarity
Most common center fire handgun cartridge on our planet .
Higher quality ammo has nearly 98% of the performance of a similar round of 45ACP
with none of the disadvantages of 40/45 .
Lower decibel rating out of the same length of barrel as 40/45.
45 ACPs only real advantage is it's
use in historical weapons .
.40 has NOT lived up to what
it was made for and is slowly being
cycled out of LEO usage for 9mm .

>>724525548
That's only about 1/5 of it. I clear out Wal-Mart when they drop the turkey shot down to $2.50/box

>>724525632
Absolutely a stupid idea. But I was the one dumb enough to take a loaded gun and just pull the fucking trigger without asking questions. Learned my lesson that day.

>>724525664
I go through hundreds of 12's a year busting clays and dove hunting, no reason to be breaking out the turkey gun unless its season for me...I hate shooting the damn thing

>>724525879
Wrong anon, but yeah, like I said, not much really if one goes shooting on a regular basis :P

>>724525664
That's more than a shitload of turkey loads

I'm a fan of 40 it's a good middle ground. You get more power than a 9mm if you're shooting a 400 lb negro high on pcp but you get more mag capacity than 45 with less kick.

>>724525727
everybody who ever drank it has died, we're talking 100% exposure here

>>724525727
I know right? I can't believe people have not made any serious effort to do something about it

>>724521872
Doesn't matter as long as you use one to kill yourself.

>>724525999
For you.
>dem trips tho.

.556 or .762? That .308 will fuck some shit up, but I'm an americunt so I say .556, shit is cheap as tits too

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>>724526055

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>>724525749
>turkey shot down to $2.50/box

>>724525983
what other reason do you have for shooting 3 1/2 turkey loads?....young and the whole bravado thing?

>>724526152
.308 is a 7.62 caliber round but I assume you meant 7.62x39

For stoppan powah and reliability can't beat an SKS or an AK

For availability and modding though, get a decent AR

>>724521872
I prefer 9mm or .45 - cost wise both are cheaper than .40, and both are more pleasant to shoot.
I have all 3, but I have considered a lot of times of selling off the Glock 23.

>>724526152
What if I told you, .223, .308, 5.56, 7.62 are all good rounds, each having their pros and cons?

every round was intended for a particular purpose

>>724526234
I'd feel comfortable using them for HD

>>724522897
yeah, kinda like 30.06 vs .308... not much less power, saves some on the powder waste. 10 is obviously stronger, though i've also seen several 1911 frames chambered in 10 that are cracked. little bit overpowered probably.

i pick to .40S&W as all around best, carry more rounds than a .45 and similar terminal ballistics.

all that being said, i don't wanna stand in front of any of them.

>>724526026
This.
Personal preference out of the three, assuming only those three are available, Id take the .40
>more power than a 9,
>more rounds than a .45,
>15 shots is plenty to put down a few niggers

>>724526436
well yeah, but he talked like he shoots the all the time

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>>724526414
Except for Eargesplitten Loudenboomer

It just fucks shit up and no one can contain it

>>724526582
That abomination exists?!

>>724526582
wtf round is that?
I've shot the 5.7 and its gawd awful loud with muffs on

>>724526325
>SKS or an AK

I'd rather have a 7.62x51 Galil

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How about 800mm?

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2mm master race

>>724526325
Yessir, that's what I'm thinking. I'm looking into an Anderson AR. 550 bucks shipped, with a shitty red dot sight. .223 is cheap to shoot. I've read up a lot of shit, deciding between the 7.62 & .556, is there anything that no one mentions? They're both great rounds it sounds like. Which do you prefer?

>>724526687
Yessir

It's a necked down .378 and is fully legit. Some fucking how it doesn't even hold the world's record for fastest round

>>724526759
lol. the austrian watchmaker kolibri

>>724526718
If I'm shooting 7.62x51 I'll stick with my M1A

>>724526741
>Railroad gun artillery
>Not very reliable unless stomping fortresses
>Have to replace barrel every 50 rounds or so from the extreme amount of gunpowder usage that corrodes the barrel.

Gotta give props to the Germans though.

>>724525353
Get a 3.5" chambered semi auto.
You'll find the recoil and cycling systems help tame the 3.5" rounds.
Or get a wood furniture kit from Boyd's for it.

>>724526759
Hey, if 2mm is good enough for my girlfriend it's good enough for me!

>>724526351
See
>>724526783
I'm leaning towards the .556, but as I haven't shot the 762 I just wanted a few opinions you feel? Both are great, I agree. But before I drop 700-1000 on a new toy, I'm doin my research

>>724526582
how many dies did it take to neck that down that far...fuck

>>724526783
I can't think of anything new to add to the points for either

.223 has zero recoil so it's ideal if you're not an experienced shooter. If you start out with a round with a fair amount of kick, it's going to teach you to flinch and that's hard to unlearn

>>724527054
Could've been mounted on a lathe and turned to that specification...
*shrug* ¯\_(O_o)_/¯

>>724527054
Lol, brass is malleable as shit

>>724527163
>A casing

>turned on a lathe

Do what?

>>724527124
>. If you start out with a round with a fair amount of kick, it's going to teach you to flinch

I started with a FN-FAL and I don't flinch. I guess it depends on the shooter. I've seen people flinch shooting a .22

>>724527198
I knew that but I've spilt brass necking down a 308 to a 243...that thing would take some serious time to make

>>724527336
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OxYQFZAn7c

possible, not very efficient though.

>>724527124
Ive shot a lot of handguns & shotguns, but I want a rifle. I've shot the .556 and it was a blast. Set up some shit at a hundred yards and plunked it, didn't go any further because fuck snow and wind. Going out to shoot my buddy's 30-06 soon, but that won't help at all haha, that's a big fucking round man.

>I'm just looking for a fun semi auto that I can go out and shoot shit with. I have a 12 gauge and some handguns for home defense,

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>>724527021
>Hundreds of men needed to: lay the rails, transport the railroad cars, fire and maintain the gun
>TWO sets of tracks needed to transport
>A General had to be present when firing
>Had to take into account the rotation of the Earth when firing
>A (generous) rate of fire of one round per hour
>7 million Reichsmarks per gun (First one was free because Krupp does that)
This is proof Hitler was an autistic fool with a boner for impractical and expensive shit

>>724527124
Also have shot .22s but those don't count for much haha

shoot a 338 lapua if you like to flinch

>>724527581
Shoot a 50 Bmg with your dick, faggot

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I was no infantryman, but word around the FOB from guys who actually had blood on their hands was:

It is bad form to attend a firefight with a sidearm, the caliber of which does not start with a "4".

Also, a 9mm may expand... but a .45 never shrinks.

The smart folks who smell like cordite get to vote for me. That said, all I can say about the .40 vs .45 is that... again... we went back to the 1911 (.45) so I'm guessing there is good reason other than the Moro's.

This is all somewhat moot though. All I have said has been military preference, and we can't use deforming rounds so a civilian 9mm may be a better choice when it isn't jacketed.

Jeff Cooper seemed to prefer .45s so there's that.

>>724527680
I'll stick to your sister

>>724527507
Even more proof that hitler was autistic;

>only cared about building bombers
>could've used the Schwalbe fighters that were on standby before D-Day that could've easily changed history, but decided not to because he had a boner for bombers and gassing jews and polish people... right idea there, wrong target.

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>>724527440

>>724523019
>10
50 AE is basically 50 BMG with less powder amirite?

>>724527877
That movie... such a good classic.

>>724527525
Fun fact. .22lr can travel over a mile and still be lethal out to at least 400 yards if not 500-600.

>>724527525
A .223 is basically just a .22 ultramag

>>724527940
I made that meme just for that reply lol

>>724527955
never travel a mile...never...maybe if you shot into the grand canyon

>>724528035
Or if you shoot at a steep angle

>>724528100
never happen friend thats a myth

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>>724521872
Depends on what you are trying to do.

>>724528148
Mythbusters did it, a bullet fired straight up tumbles at the top of its trajectory and comes down non-lethally. A bullet fired at an angle keeps its spiral and remains lethal

>>724527713
Difference between a 9mm and .45 diameter is .07".
It's not enough of a difference in diameter to make one.
What makes .45 dangerous is the weight of the ammo and what makes 9mm so dangerous is the speed.
Both end up having about the same muzzle energy from the same barrel lengths.
Shot placement is always king, not caliber.

>>724528148
Enough people have been hit by them on days like new years and us independence day that this has come about. Likely, it was shot nearby but peps have been charged for the crime from over a mile away.

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>>724527822
The Me-262 was never going to make that much of a difference. Way too unreliable because they were so new.
Engines only had like 100 hours of flight time maximum, controls surfaces wobbled and led to unpleasant flights.
The one thing Hitler could have done (Had someone woke him up) would have been to order the Panzer units to Normandy, but he still refused to believe the invasion was there.

Another great tale of Nazi failure is the He-177 (Pic related)
>Germany wants a four engine bomber like the B-17 or Lancaster
>Okay
>But it has to be able to divebomb
>Fucking why?
>Because Goering said so
>Four engines linked to two propellers
>Engine arrangement sucks
>Plane frequently catches on fire at random because the engines linked together overheat
>Heinkel makes a fix to the design giving it four engines and four props
>Goering forbids it because he just wants to forget the whole thing ever happened

>>724521872
personally i like .45ACP, but 9mm is better based on capacity. ballistic performance between the two are so close it doesnt really matter, but having an extra 5 rounds in a mag is helpful

Thoughts???? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_8f7KDVyrc

>>724528035
Shooting .22lr at a 45 to 50 degree angle can on windless days travel for a mile to mile and a quarter, depending on your rounds velocity.
Don't believe me? Look it up. Plenty of refences to .22lr traveling up to and over a mile.

>>724528379
>Shot placement is always king, not caliber.
Precisely. And most people shoot 9mm more accurately than .45 as well as 9mm generally allowing for greater magazine capacity. It's not just the size of the bullet, but the design of the bullet. 9mm is very capable in the right loads.

Implying there is something else besides 7.52x54 R

>>724528379
>Shot placement is always king, not caliber.

Yeah but caliber with shot placement is even kingier, almost emperorish even

Shooting a 9mm isn't going to make you Jason Bourne and shooting a .45 isn't going to make you Barney Fyffe

I'd say 9mm is better overall. Don't forget the cartridges were not exclusively used in pistols. They were also in submachine guns.
And I feel bad for whatever poor bastard got stuck with a Thompson in .45

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>>724528734

The nugget of truth

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>>724523352
>so they couldn't find my spent casings

Fucking Autists thinking they're a super secret agent man lol. They won't find much of anything on spent casings unless you're dumb enough to leave fingerprints on the rounds you plan to kill people with. They'll find out much, much more from the bullet itself.

>inb4 "What if I make a spur of the moment decision to murder somebody and my gun is already loaded with rounds covered in my prints?"
Then you shouldn't be trusted with a gun in the first place

Really it doesn't matter what caliber you have or if it is a wheel gun or a semi-auto. What matters is that whatever caliber you have gets you out of the situation that required you to use the gun in the first place and away to safety. I personally have a .357 mag that I keep for home defense and my wife keeps a 9 mm Makarov on her side of the bed. Use what is most comfortable.

>>724528826
So, 505 farmers vs one farmer?

>>724528751
Any caliber with good shot placement is gonna be deadly from .22lr to .44mag.
If anyone says otherwise, ask them if they want to volunteer to disprove a .22lr won't do anything if you shoot them in the face.
I have yet to have anyone volunteer to disprove it.

>>724529136
>9 mm Makarov

I can see having one for fucking about but why would you have one for HD? You pretty much have to order ammo for it. I've never seen it on shelves anywhere around here

>>724529164
Several of them were top red snipers

They got tired of him pushing their shit in so they carpet bombed the general area four or five times. He still lived to 96, kek

guns should be illegal anyway, all they do is lead to mass shootings

>>724529268
9mm Mak is at Academy, Bass Pro, Walmart...
Not a huge selection, but Hornady makes HP home defense ammo for it.

>>724528826
Technically, Finnish Mosin Nagants don't use 7.62x54R
They use 7.62x53R. But you can use 54R if needed. It'll kill your barrel quicker.

Anything bigger than 9MM is pointless now that high quality hollow points are a thing

>>724529416
>guns lead to mass shootings
>gun lead
No, bullets have lead, dolt.

>>724529416
Masses should be banned because all they do is lead to mass shootings.

>>724529268
I have it because when I took her to the range to get her one it was the most comfortable for her and the one she was most accurate with. I would rather spend extra to find the ammo for it and know that she can handle a situation that needs force than have her hitting the wall around an intruder.

Safety>cost

>>724529416
I'll remember said that the next time a bombing occurs.

>>724529449
I don't see how it would kill your barrel quicker

Extractor maybe, from the extra work of having to pull out a longer seated casing

>>724528625
Failure drills are wonderful in theory, so long as your shooter is exceptional. Most shooters are not and aim for center mass. Even then, aiming for that T shaped spot that puts a target down with no reflex return shot puts your round awfully near the front part of the skull. Miss the T by a centimeter and a 9mm is likely to graze the skull without penetrating. Again... repeating the words of harder men than I.

>>724529763
Yeah but it's literally 1mm shorter than a regular 9mm

>>724529763
Plus Maks are built like tanks.

>>724529857
It's not about the ammo. It is about what firearm felt comfortable in her hand.

9mm for women or faggots
.40 S&W for every day carry
45 ACP if you KNOW you're walking into a firefight

>>724521872
CCW here. For me, it's 9mm every time. Minimal recoil, higher mag capacity. I carry a Glock 26, I keep a Ruger P95 in my nightstand. Sure, a body hit with a .45acp would probably be more likely to stop someone with one shot, but I'd rather be able to accurately fire multiple shots in succession and not empty the clip should there be multiple bad guys. Besides, if ya catch em in the head, they're gonna die regardless of caliber (with the exception of the tiny rounds).

>>724529804
Just looking at Wikipedia (Take with a grain of salt), the Finnish bores were slightly smaller and the rifling was twisted differently.
53R has a bullet diameter of 7.85 mm (0.309 in)
54R has bullet diameter of 7.92 mm (0.312 in)

>>724526473
Exactly. They all do the same thing, you just get more stopping power as you go up. You gotta pick the round/power needed for the job. I've seen people go boar hunting with Raging Judges, but not with 9mm, ya know?

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>>724523619
>i'll take a 12 gauge slug over your cartridge any day of the week

Q: What kind of gun should I get for home defense.
A1: Dog
A2: If your lease precludes dogs, Shotgun.

>>724529887
That too. Never had a problem with it. Except every time I fire it it rips a chunk of the webbing by my thumb due to the small grip and my big hand. But she's got small hands so she wanted single stack.

>>724530671
>if lease does allow dogs
>Dog and twelve gauge.

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>>724530671
>A dog for home defense

>>724522352

9mm 124gr or 40 180gr

who tf shoots 10mm

Dumbass newbie tier: .45
Pro tier: .40
Standard tier: 9mm

Is there any ACTUAL reason to use anything bigger than 9MM for defense?

>>724531042
Shit, the only mention I've heard of 10mm was in the Rainbow Six novel.
They use MP-5s chambered in 10mm.

>>724531136
Yeah, stopping power

.357mag
.40
.45ACP

Have the highest one shot stops, in that order as per 15 years of FBI data

>>724531183
>They use MP-5s chambered in 10mm.

>When the 10mm pistol was too much for the FBI

Kek

>>724531136
9mm has very little stopping power. There are many, many accounts of crazed psychos taking multipl 9mm round and they just keep coming at you. Something bigger will put down anyone. But if you go too big with .45 it has such high recoil it slows down how fast you can aim and fire.

>>724531237
But does that include ball ammo too?

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.44 MAGNUHM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRmYH3mUb9o

kills like 50 zoo animals with it in self defense

>>724531362
not true, ammo technology is advanced now. If you shoot someone twice in the chest with HST, it will most certainly stop them.

>>724531389
I doubt it. Officers don't typically carry ball ammo

>>724531501
oh it's just from officers?

also, interesting that most police officers in the US used revolvers until at least the mid 90s.

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>>724521872
I carry a .25 caliber as my pocket pistol, a Bersa Thunnder .380 as holster gun and a .357 magnum as a truck gun.

The .25 is my favorite, pick related

>>724531633
So many classy guns come in .25 or .380 but they are definitely small. You really have to be comfortable with your ability to place shots to use those.

>>724521872
.45 acp because Fuck whoever I'm shooting at

>>724531633
I wonder if I could buy one of those off the street for 50 dollars

and that thing is fucking tiny, my friend has a saturday night special 22 and it's still bigger than that

>>724531600
Let me find the link

>>724531111

I've shot a few 45's. Don't really like them. Either the gun is annoyingly heavy or has unpleasant recoil.

>>724531433
Seems efficient.


... I literally died watching this.

>>724531237
>Yeah, stopping power

Tip: you don't need to kill them, just convince them to run for their life.

>>724532237
Nah, would rather save the taxpayers the money

>>724531813
>>724531761

The thing about these guns is that they just rock for concealed. Never have to worry about it, they just fit in your pocket and they are SO reliable. Parts are cheap too, I've got three and one of them was jamming here and there, replaced the springs and bought a brand new slide for 20 bucks, bam, back to working order.

And yeah, you can get them for almost nothing. I got 3 for about 325 total.

>>724532237
why not just shoot blanks like your cock does then, fag

>>724524568
>>My shoulder when I got home and took my shirt off
your shoulder turned into a gemstone?

>>724532452
I thought they had issues with reliability

I would buy one just for the fuck of it but I still live with my parents and they would kill me if they found out I had a gun

>>724531237
Recoil and mag capacity are what count. Sure, one torso hit with a .45acp is more likely to bring someone down, but it'll take ya two seconds to recover from the recoil of that first shot, especially if you're carrying a subcompact. I can do a Mozambique (two torso, one head) in under 2sec at 15' with a subcompact 9mm. And carrying a .357 snub? Yeah, I'd like to fire one round and then have the subsequent four hit everything but my target and be out of ammo.

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>>724524138

>>724532237
If I really truly fear for my life and am prepared to defend myself with lethal force, then I want to do that in the best possible way. I don't want to count on some scare tactic like the fucking "all ya gotta do is rack the shotgun and most people will be so scared they'll run away" meme.

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>>724532839
I'd use that as a backup and use pic related as primary.

>>724532802
>recoil of that first shot

I'm a big guy

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>>724532802
>And carrying a .357 snub? Yeah, I'd like to fire one round and then have the subsequent four hit everything but my target and be out of ammo.

Mine works just fine.

>>724532610
They'd literally never find out. You can hide this gun in your fucking sleeve.

>>724521872
Placement is King.
Penetration is Queen.
Everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin

>>724532441

Nah some other nigger can save the taxpayer money.

>>724532889

You're just a tard that dreams of being a man someday.

Ain't going to happen

>>724522352
Ballistics gel isn't that good of a medium to test with, 10mm is nothing to fuck with there's a reason why i carry it for bear protection.

>>724533874

This.

>>724533388
How long did that take ya, an hour?

>>724524558
topfuckingkek

Good ol American .45

>>724522425
hell yea this my man. 357 by far best pistol cartridge. 762x54r best rifle round

>>724530762
I got a Bulgarian Mak myself. Not bad for a single stack. About the same muzzle energy and velocity as a .38spl (unless you get into the premium .38spl +P rounds), and you get 2 extra rounds to boot.
Buffalo Bore is doing 9mm Mak rounds that are built for self defense too. Haven't looked into them much, but supposed to be nice.

>>724533988
>How long did that take ya, an hour?
To shoot that group?
4 or 5 seconds.
The laser helps a lot bringing you back on target.

>>724521872
Whichever one you have the most accurate shot placement with. Personal preference. They'll all kill something ded

>>724526109
Go back to your
>wwyd?
Threads.

9mm is the best option. There is very little room to debate.

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.577/450
A Martini that will both shake and stir...your insides

>>724529198
This

>>724534236
7.62x54r would be good for killing Nazi's in Berlin but I'd contest that's it's the best rifle caliber

>>724534630
>Nazi's
Lrn 2 ingrish

>>724534630
Yeah, best rifle cartridge would be .300 Win Mag

Shooting 500 yards with a nugget is a miracle. You can go on youtube and find page after page of 1 mile shots with .300

>>724521872
10mm is handcannon status but my subcompact 40 XD does the job

>>724534728
I shoot quarter size groups with my 7mm08 at 400yds with store bought ammo but I get a quarter group at 600 with hand loads.

I guess it really would just come down to knowing your weapon.

>>724534728
Supposed shots at 1600m.
Military testing shows maximum effective range to be 1500 yards (1370m) with .300win mag.
It's a great round, no doubt, but a mile killer? Maybe not so much.

>>724527427
>I knew that but I've spilt brass necking down a 308 to a 243...that thing would take some serious time to make
What is annealing?

>>724535100
A .22LR can kill at a mile. I have no doubt that a 300WM can kill accurately at a mile

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hey guys. honestly i agree with a lot of the guys who say shot placement is king. a bullet of any caliber in the upper torso is almost an instant down. with that being said, i carry a full sized 1911 chambered in .45 and i can empty a full 8 round magazine in a few seconds and have my shots in a 6 inch pattern at 30 yards with quick placement. however, it is known that 9mm bullets are designed to penetrate beyond whats needed and personally if i have to shoot someone or something its important that the bullet stay in the target in order for the full effect of the energy dissipation to cause the desired damage that stops the target from being a threat. there is a very large amount of data that backs up my claims on the 9mm. .45 acp is slow and punches which means bones are broken and organs are mashed. thats why its still preferred over the 9mm and the 10mm and the sw.40.

pic related to the pistol i carry.

>>724521872
It's entirely a matter of preference between standard pressure rounds. If you can handle the .45, why not choose the .45? Some people can't handle the recoil of the .45, like delicate women, or elderly men with arthritis, but they can tolerate the recoil from 9mm.

>>724535280
>A .22LR can kill at a mile. I have no doubt that a 300WM can kill accurately at a mile

Accurately?
That kinda depends on where it starts going trans-sonic.

>>724522366
.40 S&W stands for S.hort and W.eak

>>724535501
>It's subtle but it's there

>>724535536
Yeah, again, an accurate mile shot with a 300 isn't news

>>724535418
This!
I've always leaned toward the slow, heavy, lump of lead.

>>724535280
No, a .22lr can shoot out to a mile, and you might get lucky and get a lethal shot with one. Maybe.
400-500 yards for sure but I doubt 1500.
I still wouldn't want to be hit with a .300WinMag out at 1500 yards, but survivability goes way up unless it's a lucky/good hit.
Military usually does a good amount of testing when they use something, so I am fairly apt to believe them over some YouTube guy saying he shot it at a mile - besides, all of those shots on YT are against paper, and not a living creature. Hard to say if that's lethal or not - paper isn't exactly known for its hardness.

>>724521872
9mm

>>724535832
180 grains is going to conserve a lot of momentum at that distance

>>724535280
>A .22LR can kill at a mile.

Are you retarded nigga? @ 1750 yards it's traveling @ 266 fps with 6 ft.lb of energy ... wtf you going to kill with that?

>>724535615
>Yeah, again, an accurate mile shot with a 300 isn't news
I popped a 1 gal jug at 600 yards with a 357 mag revolver.
Accurate? no
Shit luck? absolutely

Didn't stop me from turning around and giving everyone a smug look, though.

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>>724522352
the differences are not as big as you think, all pistol rounds are weak. its about using as much as you can handle. I shoot .45s because the recoil is fun and it punishes mistakes.

getting into .22 just because I see those Olympic sized targets and want to try it myself.

>10 mm is neat tho.

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>>724536024
a hit in the throat can cause a swelling reaction that can block your airway. not much force is needed to fuck up a human neck. 266 lbs is probably enough to do it, but idk bout the small ness of it.

>>724536024
It's called an arc, nigger
>>724536095
>Comparing a revolver cartridge to a belted magnum rifle cartridge

>>724536348
>>724536095
oh shit, 266 fps not ft pounds, thats lower then a fucking bb gun, sorry, yeah, no way that is doing anything.

I'm over here with my overpriced german .38 hooker pistol.

>>724536386
OK, you're an idiot.

>>724536348
266 FEET PER SECOND ... 6 FOOT POUNDS of energy ... unless that hits you in the eye it's not going to do ANY damage

>>724536386
>It's called an arc, nigger

Call it what you will, still doesn't mean it has enough energy to do any damage, clearly you know nothing about firearms...

>>724531111
Fuck you, quads! Calling a round developed by John Moses Browning "Dumbass newbie tier".

>>724536016
Like I said - I ain't volunteering to stand downrange of one at a mile. But like I also said, survivability goes way up.
1800+ ft/lb energy at 200 yards 180gr with the .300WinMag and about 400+ ft/lb or so at 1500 yards. Still would ruin your day, but not the finger of God tweaking you like it would at 200-500 yards.
Also, .300WinMag barrels wear out at about 1500 shots. 7.62x51 - 10-15k shots.

>>724536555
>checked

Trips knows best.

>>724536502
>Can't address your points, better fling personal attacks

>>724536452
>>724536555
I-i'm ... sorry sempai!

>>724536555
Kids have died from BB guns with less than that.
Just saying man - though honestly the likelihood of it actually occurring is fantastically minuscule.

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The FBI already did a test back in the 80's comparing all your typical carry cartridges and said there was no appreciable difference between the calibers when it came to terminal ballistics.

Capacity, reliability, and affordability are much more important factors. Not the fictional STOPPIN POWAH you've all been lead to believe is real.

>>724537064
kids have super soft skulls and if you get a bb past a soft spot, then yes, you can get eternal bleeding that you can operate on, but 266 fps is like a china toy airsoft gun. 6 pounds of force is like being poked with a sharpened pencil with mild interest in actually doing anything at all.

>>724536921
>Can't address your points, better fling personal attacks

My point is that you're a fuckin' idiot!
Got it now, Snowflake?

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>>724537303
I like your punctuation, its pretty good.

>>724537292
These were 8-13 year old kids - I think even one of the reports was an adult male.
At that range though it would be all about being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and it was just your time to go.

>>724537160
If a shoot you with a 22 in your left arm and a 45 (hollow or not) in your right, which arm do you expect to still be there?

>>724537489
Both.

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>>724537489
.22 is not a typical carry cartridge.

>>724537064
>Kids have died from BB guns with less than that.
Citation needed ..

The effective penetrating range of a BB gun with a muzzle velocity of 120 to 180 metres per second (390 to 590 ft/s) is approximately 18 metres (60 ft). A person wearing jeans at this distance would not sustain serious injury.

Now tell me, how is half that energy @ a mile going to kill?

>>724537489
>Implying the .22 won't follow the bone and kill the shit out of me

>>724537542
Have you seen the PMR30. Granted it's 22mag but that's a pretty acceptable daily carry

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>>724537489
common man, be real, .22 isn't what you compare a .45 to and you know it. don't be silly.

and I expect both to be there, real life ain't fallout 3.

Goddamn bullet of those calibers will make a big hole in anyone.
Only debatable size is a .22, and that can be more devastating if need be.
Did a European start this thread?

>All these newfags not realize that an AR-15 fires a .22 caliber bullet

>>724537701
That's obviously in an entirely different class of cartridges, though.

From what I remember, the FBI tested 9mm, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, and 10mm. These are the cartridges they claimed had no significant differences. Obviously if we graduate to a .357 or .44 MAG, they are going to do significantly more damage than the previously mentioned calibers, but they much like the .22 are not common carry calibers and aren't worth considering.

>>724537522
>>724537542
>>724537649
>>724537714

I've blown holes in pigs I could slide a golf ball through with 45. I'd expect an arm to be missing if not hanging by skin alone

>>724537844
a .22 caliber bullet that weighs significantly more and goes significantly faster.

>>724537570
http://www.wave3.com/story/12140277/11-year-old-dies-after-being-shot-with-bb-rifle
https://www.google.com/amp/q13fox.com/2016/10/20/authorities-say-single-bb-gun-shot-killed-tacoma-man/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/q13fox.com/2016/10/20/authorities-say-single-bb-gun-shot-killed-tacoma-man/amp/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2297127/Boy-10-dies-brother-accidentally-shot-head-BB-gun.html
It's not like it is impossible, just rare, but it does happen.

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>>724537844
go to bed ivan.

>>724537714
You can say that until you realize a .22 will bounce around a skull like a pea in a can.
Seriously, man; it's a supercharged BB with no kick. The .22 isn't my preference, but it shouldn't be dismissed.

>>724538046
Also, the most easily suppressed cartridge in the world

>>724537936
bone m8, you hit any piggy bones? also, are you talking craters of see light through the other side holes cus that's just stupid.

>>724537936
9mm has more joules of muzzle energy on average than .45 ACP.

>>724538046
>.22 will bounce around a skull like a pea in a can.

Go say this on /k/ please, they take bait very easily.

>>724521872
None of these stupid fucks know what they're talking about. First off look at the shape of the bullet.The .45 will definitely make the biggest impact and it weighs more so it will be harder to stop and that means it will also be faster because it won't stop less than the others would. The second has already been fired and clearly hit a wall. It would take a retard to miss that. That Luger bullet on the end? Not even worth the time to be in an actual gun. It is so small that it will slow down immediately after being fired through the air because it is so light that it will slow down because of the air pulling on the bullet and blowing it slower.

>>724537936
Do you know what Newton's 3rd law is?
If you have a handgun round powerful enough to blow a limb clean off, there is going to be an equal amount of force for recoil in the gun.
Your hands would not survive the shot either.
It's basic physics. Learn it.

>>724537844
Wait, a 22 is the same as a 223? Explain?

>>724538162
Directly through the shoulder with a hand loaded 45 from a camp carbine, yes hole with light.

>>724538046
>>724538160
yes yes we all watch the movies about Irish assassins using soda bottle suppressors. but that is a very very specific circumstance.

I mean, why not just use a .32 acp and go full James bond?

>>724538333
no, its not.

>>724538224
So... you have a counter?

>>724538333
223 is longer I believe

>>724538355
Yeah a camp carbine isn't a 5" barrel handgun. You get more velocity and muzzle energy from a rifle shooting handgun rounds than a handgun does.
Did no one teach you how to gun correctly?

>>724533874
This

>>724538443
Hence, my question.

>>724538445
The Zombie Survival Guide and Fudd lore isn't a credible source

>>724533874
This.

>inb4 samefag

>>724538333
A .22 is .223 in diameter because it's a heeled bullet

>>724538460
Of course it is!

You violent motherfuckers are all going to face a reckoning one day

>>724538333
As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong):

.223 was a common caliber used in bolt action rifles. It is a longer round, around two to three inches, can't really remember.

.22 is your average, run of the mill pistol caliber. Might be about 20 rounds per magazine or something around that? I don't know, barely know anything about guns really.

Someone educate me on guns

>>724538546
What's that?

>>724538598
Cute

.45 ACP FTW, because sometimes short, fat, and slow get the job done.

>>724538569
Of course. But saying a .22 is the same as a .223 is...?

>>724538621
It's dumb shit written by the same guy who did World War Z

He says machetes are better than bats

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>>724538355
hmm, I think I will split hairs here and call it like myth busters, if you saw someone with a ragged golf ball sized hole in their arm, you say "dat nigga got's his arm blown off!' but you wont get into the arm actually removed ghost club at Hogwarts.

9 for long range 45 for close up.

>>724538618
.22 is a rim fire rifle round, which means instead of the primer being inside the center of the round, it's on the rim. It's a really small but LETHAL round known to Pierce body armor. A .22 is a idealistic combat round tbh, with very little recoil you can put a lot of lead down range on target with ease.

>>724538618
Is your standard 223 3inches long with case and bullet or just bullet

>>724538618
the .22 caliber was one of the first cased cartridges ever made. it is the most popular rifle round for both sport and hunting. the .223 and the 5.56 were designed in the early 60's for use in the m16 and m15 variants and are longer and heeled. although some can be dovetailed

>>724538696
I never said they were the same, I said an AR-15 fires a 22 caliber bullet

>>724538708
he did the guide first, but you gotta keep it in context of pre-walking dead normies storimin over zombie shit. I really enjoyed it as a book to read.

>2003 was a pretty dope year. people are getting to young

>>724538708
Wait, why are we talking about this? I started with the fact a .22 can cause some serious damage to your average human, including through the head and bouncing around the skull.
Why are you mentioning zombies?

>>724538796
Case and bullet, I'm thinking that the actual bullet is about 1/2'

>>724538778
What are the odds of .22 piercing body armor?

>>724538836
So it originally was meant to be an assault rifle round?

>>724533874
my nigga

>>724521872
Excluding .22 and anything smaller, as long as you hit the fucker in the chest twice you're in the clear 7/10 times

>>724537999
I never said a BB gun couldn't kill anyone. Was just trying to correct you in your "Kids have died from BB guns with less than that." LESS THAN THAT ... no, bb guns have more than that, some air rifles have higher velocities than standard velocity .22LR.

Not one of those links (which provide model) show anyone being killed with a BB gun with a velocity of less than 266 FPS ... only one with a model is Daisy Powerline 880S and it has a muzzle velocity of 750, nearly 3x what a .22LR has at a mile...reading comprehension not your strong suit?

>>724538778
.22 can't peirce ballistic armor, are you retarded?

>>724538941
cus the zombie book says specifically .22 is good because it bounces in a human skull cus that's the goal with zombies, destroy the brain.

itsa an urban legend m8, before that it was Irish assassins and hit men with two shots to scramble brains.

we should also remember that not all bullets are the same. and therefore when it comes to power and range the size of the bullet and the shape will differ a lot. a lot of the info on here is decent for your standard bi-metal jacketed cartridge. for expansive tipped and bifurcated rounds the data changes dramatically.

>>724539081
A .17 can pierce class III armor

It's all about hardness and/or speed

If you made a stainless .22 bullet it would laser through a vest

>>724538874
Fine, I can agree. You and I both know there's a difference, but it's splitting hairs so I'll agree.

>>724538990
Ive heard that 22 and even 9mm can slip through Kevlar but I've yet to see anything proving this, but I could have just not seen anything proving it.

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>>724539184

>>724539106
What? You okay, kid?

>>724538990
yes the .223 or 5.56 was designed to be a fast moving round capable of massive penetration with little expansion. a standard .223 or 5.56 travels at around 2500-3000 fps and at 60 grains doesn't really carry a lot of energy when it strokes a target, infact they normally just go through and keep going until they break apart or get lodged in an object.

>>724538276
idiot

>>724538333
Same diameter, yes, that's all they have in common. .223 is a heavier bullet (55+gr. vs. 36-40gr.), has a real copper jacket and travels at nearly 3x the velocity.

>>724539184
That would shred the rifle bore to hell, and the velocity would drop fast.

>>724538618
Yeah no.
.223 Remington/5.56 NATO is an intermediate rifle cartridge used for small to medium game, at 200-400 yards. It is most commonly used as a varmint caliber to do pest control (ground hogs, feral hogs, Muslim insurgeants, etc.).
.22long rifle (lr) is a small game/varmint only round common used for rabbit and squirrel hunting, or shooting pests like pigeons or skunks.
The bullet weight for a .223/5.56 is 40-90 grains, with 55 grains being the most common, whereas .22lr is 36 or 40 grain being the most common.
Velocity on the .223Rem/5.56 is 2600-3200 fps, a .22lr is 1000-1300 fps.
2 way different calibers.

>>724539106
What? Which book? I'm just talking about experience. Zombies?

>>724538778
>known to pierce body armor
Lol no.

>>724538598
>You violent motherfuckers are all going to face a reckoning one day
That's why we carry guns

>>724538990
the .22 was designed during the civil war and was used in single shot breach loading rifles. it was a .22 short and long variant that was used well into the 19th century. the .22 long rifle was the first us cartridge to be used in a bolt action rifle.

>>724539313
Hence, my response.

>>724539301
Yeah you are, fucktard.
>HURRR DURRR .45 GONNA BLOW YER ARM CLEAN OFF DURRRRR

>>724539269
ok guy, where did you hear the whole skull bounce thing? its a full blown meme started as a thing assassin do in mob wars, then co-opted by Max Brookes in his zombie book back in 2003. the internet got a hold of it and it never went away.

yes any bullet in the head can kill you, but it bouncing off the other side of your skull to make a bigger wound tract isn't real. skulls don't even work that way.

if you say that on >>>/k/ they will bast you with memes. they hate it as a reason for using a under powered round for self defense.

yes, even 22 mag

>>724539529
Does that mean anyone that's ever shot a large bore firearm should be dead?

>>724539529
I fail to see how a fast travelling piece of blazingly hot metal can dislodge an arm. I seriously do.

>>724539529
If ya got those fag noodle arms then yes, a .45 will blow it off.

>>724539529

Where do these morons come from?