HEMA General - Historical European Martial Arts

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So how do you guys think about one handers?

>>2809627
I think they should be legal as long as there are rules for afterblows negating points. Not doing so would encourage unsafe and unmartial fencing.

As long as the techniques aren't dangerous (like mordhau), anything should be allowed. If you keep getting hit by one-handed strikes, you clearly are fencing too close to your opponent.

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>>2809627
>So how do you guys think about one handers?
They're one of the main attacks in """English""" longsword, so yeah, pretty sweet and like >>2811846 said.

>Also fuck people with good hip mobility.
>But mostly fuck my bonitis
>tfw so elegant, spectacular, low lunge in Prima ;_;

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>>2811859
>Addendum
I WILL say though that we've held some competitions with international visitors and, to be more fair, we simply used the "Both hands on the SWORD [not just grip] at all times" for strikes to count as valid.

>>2809627
fine with them, once parried you're opponent's completely open

>>>/lgbt/

>>2811907
You're mistaken, this is NOT a wrestling thread

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>>2809607
What's up with the dog? What's its fucking problem? It haunts me in my sleep ;_;

>>2809607
Is there a reason why half of the people in this picture have a different arm/blade alignement than the other?
Why such bending of the wrist on the guy on the front while Rawlings right on his side has quite a different back and arm position?

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>>2811930
Dog's were popular art trolling instruments back then.

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>>2812079
fucking hell, those dogs, everywhere those dogs

>>2809627
Thrusts are fine. Cuts are a crock of shit if they're done one-handed with the rear hand, fine if one-handed with your actual sword hand.

>>2812074
>Is there a reason why half of the people in this picture have a different arm/blade alignement than the other?
Yes, a very simple one: most of them are shit. They're bad at rapier, and they're doing the exercise terribly. All the wonky blade alignments and strange postures are down to their incompetence.

But that's what practice is for, not for doing it right the first time you try it, so who cares?

>>2812321
>most of them are shit. They're bad at rapier, and they're doing the exercise terribly.
Which ones are doing it right?

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>>2812317
>Hans begs to disagree with you

>>2812328
Rawlings, the one with the arm tatoo, third from the left, he is the instructor so I guess he is doing it right, plus it's the only body position that makes much sense when you're doing a passata sotto. No the "I'll duck underneath but break my wrist and leave my arm up and almost vertical" doesn't scream like an efficient technique to me, but then again I don't do rapier so...

>>2812335
based gayßler Hans (I'm yet waiting to crush some shinbone with a gaisler/gayßler/geißler or whatever)

>>2812352
Thanks, I thought so. It looked the most useful with head down and wrist relatively straight

>>2812352
This is why I pick and choose my rapier systems carefully.
This position is just not possible for me.

>>2812321
>Yes, a very simple one: most of them are shit.
This.
They should look like based Fabris here.

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>>2812727
FUCK

Any opinions on the lvl 1 line from Neyman?

>>2813087
meh

>>2812731
That hand to his ear
Waiting for the OOOOOOOOOH's

What are the pros abd cons of Fiore?
My options in Hawaii are Schola Saint George or ARMA.
Kind of unfortunate since I'd really love to learn sabre

>>2813735
Pro: you will be the most manly man around
Cons: a lot of stuff from Fiore is banned from tournaments

>>2813735
Fiore is a multi weapon system. Fiore is not tournament friendly.

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Do you guys think it would be possible to penetrate gambesons and mail with a smallsword? I mean they're basically one-handed estocs with their triangular, stiff blades.

>>2813951
Bullshit. Richard Marsden and a lot of the Phoenix guys win or at least place well in tournaments using Fiore. If you're referring to all the arm breaks and grappling moves, then you can say the same thing about all the deadly wrestling moves that Ringeck shows.

>>2814426
>couple guys don't place last
doesn't really sound like an argument.

>>2814335
I imagine the blade could go through about as well as anything else could, but in practice I think you'd have a harder time doing it. With an extended arm and a 30+ inch blade, the tip is really far from where you're generating the force, and your wrist is right in the middle; there's a lot of room for error in terms of having the thrust not in line with the force of impact, which would throw everything off. With a dagger or a longsword (halfsworded), you've got a hand about a foot from the tip, so it's hugely more stable.

>>2813298
>Waiting for the OOOOOOOOOH's
Giganetty getting worked by based Fabris

>>2814335
>Do you guys think it would be possible to penetrate gambesons and mail with a smallsword?

No.
They barely went through thick coats in their own period, hence why people took them off to duel and if you wanted to wear your coat you'd fight with a "spadroon"/walloon,backsword/broadsword/rapier.

And through mail?
Also no. Maybe between or within the links on standard quality mail but not rivet breaking punctures, and even then only a few millimetre at most.

I mean they're basically one-handed estocs with their triangular, stiff blades.

They really are not. At most they're like a short late-period rapier.

SMALLSWORD/COLICHEMARDES ARE NOT DESIGNED TO BYPASS ARMOUR!
re

>>2814559
>Muh tournaments
Nice strawman.

>>2812352
Yeah, I don't know much about rapier coming from JSA but his is the only centered, stable position and good structure in the picture (the only thrust, as the others would just poke if they ever even connected and didn't fall over, and certainly wouldn't recover easily).

>>2814864
>>2814335
There are some instances of half-swording a smallsword or a rapier. It's probably one way to make it work, but smallsword aren't made for fighting even padded clothing.

>>2814929
>OP: Fiore is not tournament friendly
>some guys did not place last using Fiore
>not really an argument
>Muh tournaments
>Nice strawman.
Somehow you missed the argument.

>>2812352
Arguably the two guys behind Dave are also doing it fairly well, they're not forming it perfectly but at least have a similar posture and reasonable wrist/blade structure.

>>2813735
>What are the pros abd cons of Fiore?
>My options in Hawaii are Schola Saint George or ARMA.
In your situation the pros and cons of whatever system are totally irrelevant. Just don't join ARMA, that's your only real answer. Never go with ARMA.

Ever.

>>2814426
>>2814559
>>2814929
>>2815580
God damn is it that hard to understand that dislocating a guy's shoulder or breaking his knee isn't exactly well received in a tournament setting?

>>2815775
>God damn is it that hard to understand that dislocating a guy's shoulder or breaking his knee isn't exactly well received in a tournament setting?
What pussy tournaments are you going to?

>>2815697
Not the person you're replying to, but why?

>>2815775
Yes, thats why Fiore != tournament friendly.

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>>2815697
The Schola Saint George appears to have SCA hybrid into it, though optional it looks like.
Both have shit but at least I can try and avoid the SCA shit

>>2815816
Arma is a cult around John Clements, not a HEMA group.

>>2815804
ARMA is a cult.

>>2816085
Had no idea, I will look into it

>>2816547
In the (long) interview of Jake Norwood done by Alte Herren (Hans Jornlind and Rob Runacres), it's talked quite a bit since Norwood was once part of ARMA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUWo3gjcN9U

>>2815818
>The Schola Saint George appears to have SCA hybrid into it
It seems like a lot of the Burger HEMA groups have SCA crossover, especially with Cut and Thrust. I'd be more worried about that "refined dance of steel" shit, writing phrases like that is a red flag for know-nothing faggot. (Not saying the guy definitely must be though)

>>2816573
>Jake Norwood
gets my vote for sexiest HEMA instructor of the year!

>>2816942
Well the guy running it is some college professor in Hawaii so he's going to be an artsy liberal.

Meyer or Liechtenauer?
Which has which advantage? How's the footwork? I've read Meyer has no thrusts, is that true?

>>2809607
What are the main differences between backsword and broadsword exactly?
I've been looking at anglo broadsword sources cause I don't know much about it, especially from the late 17th, and the 18th centuries, it seems Thomas Page is seen as a common starting point but I'd be interested to know what there is about it...

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Meyer is part of the tradition of Liechtenauer, so they have the same basics.
Regarding Liechtenauer, there aren't direct sources, just what other masters of the tradition wrote about Liechtenauer's fencing.
Meyer wrote two treatises, so learning his style is easier than trying to figure out Liechtenauer from different sources.

Meyer thrusts?
Quite a complex subject, I'll link an article about it http://hroarr.com/doing-what-we-are-told-or-what-we-are-taught/

>>2818039
>Meyer or Liechtenauer?
both

>Which has which advantage?
Liechtenauer is not just a guy, but a tradition, a distinct and old (late 14th century) lineage of medieval German fencing. It encompasses dozens of Masters and treaties over nearly 200 years. A big variety of weapons and armor are known in the Liechtenauer school. Wrestling was prominent and is seen as the basis of the technique.
If you talk traditional Liechtenauer and strictly longsword, the sources should be before 1450, because at that time the stile of longsword fencing begins to change.
>pro: lots of sources, lots of techniques, lots of weapons, wrestling and throws, plus some nasty stuff that wins fights.
>con: gotta dig through many sources and several masters to cross reference a complete school.

Joachim Meyer was Swiss/German/Alsatian fencing master and Schirmeister (fencing instructor to the high nobility) of the early modern era (1537 - 1571) and a Freifechter. He wrote detailed treatises with excellent illustrations on 5 weapons, namely Longsword, Dussack, Rappier (early German rapiers where closers to side swords), Dagger (this includes some wrestling) and Polearms including quarter staff, Halberd and pike.

>pro: one complete 500 page source with lots of good illustrations on the 5 main weapons of the time an area buy an accomplished fencer and soldier.
>con: wrestling and dirty fighting moves are few, partially ritualized forms

>How's the footwork?
Meyer has half a page on basic footwork in a 500 page book but there are some good illustration on the stances. The entire German lineage has few informations on footwork basics, but like in Meyer the steps are given for a technique

>I've read Meyer has no thrusts, is that true?
Meyer has shit load thrusts, just not in longsword. At Meyers time it was a taboo to use thrusts with the longsword, both in traditionalized training fights as well as in some (not all) real combat use. Thats why he only mentions but not teaches them.

>>2818280
on that longsword bit, Meyer has few to no thrusts, but he deals out blows like no other school. Meyer combos are mighty. For that alone you should read his stuff.

>>2818251
>>2818280
>>2818316
Thanks guys

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>>2818242
>What are the main differences between backsword and broadsword exactly?
Angelo is a good start for regimental broadsword.
The TL;DR is that the term is used interchangeably, and they're basically both the same.
Broadsword generally means a double edged Scottish style weapon.
Backsword means a single edged English style weapon.
Some masters prefer one over the other, with the differences literally just being that a backsword tend to thrust more easily and later on was lighter and cheaper. The broadsword however almost always was a incredible cutting sword with dense hand protection in the form of the baskethilt.
Page is good for early "Clan Era" style.

>>2818280
>Joachim Meyer was Swiss/German/Alsatian fencing master and Schirmeister (fencing instructor to the high nobility) of the early modern era (1537 - 1571) and a Freifechter.
I thought he was a master cutler by trade.

>>2809627

It's dumbshit.

>>2818039

Also take a look on PH Mair

Basically all is in his book, from old gloses (Juden Lew I guess) to XVIe century fencing for all weapons.

It's extensive, and difficult to understand because the plays/stücke are answers to given problematics, not kata or combo to use as it in fight.

>>2818632
Yes, thats the trade he learned but he turned professional fighter early on. at age 35 he became Schirmeister to the Duke of Mecklenburg. Poor guy died right after otherwise he likely would have been made noblity soon enough.

>>2818633
Good post, thanks for your insights!

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>>2818650
>Also take a look on PH Mair
Are you try to troll the new anon?

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Frenchfriend are you still here? Did you make any progress on your videos?

>>2819044
>three lions and a fleur de lis
What witchcraft is that?

>>2819705
Are you joking? Is this a joke?

Those are the English royal arms during the entire Hundred Years' War, War of the Roses and Tudor periods, right up until James the First and Sixth gained the throne of England. (Well, technically I think it was semé de fleurs-de-lis instead of three of them before Henry IV, but big deal)

They're some of the most recognizable and frequently depicted armorial bearings of all time, not only in period manuscripts but also in art and films of our own time.

>>2820264
>They're some of the most recognizable and frequently depicted armorial bearings of all time, not only in period manuscripts but also in art and films of our own time.
Not that anon but I have no clue what you're talking about

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>>2820767
If you've never seen that coat of arms, you've probably never looked at anything HYW related... which is not a big issue mind you.

>>2820929
Fucking Brannag.

>>2820767
>HEMAfags are now so anti-historical-costume that they don't even recognize the surcoat of the English king
We went too far

>>2821397
I only care about continental Europe tbqh, especially HRE

For a total beginner, what texts/books should I read and in what order? I was planning to grab Döbringer but I'm clueless as to where to go from there.

My attention is mainly focused in longsword/Messer.

>>2822192
Honestly, don't start by reading books. Get you to a club. Find one that has a reputable instructor first and foremost, studing the right system second, and every other consideration after that.

Manuals will mostly not do you any good until you know the basics.

Rats have been getting into my garden and killed a ton of my plants so I laid out some traps. But today (or last night probably) I caught one and the trap didn't kill it. I had my practice bag with me so I put him out of his misery with a blunt viking sword.

I feel pretty shitty that the little guy was suffering for so long but at least he's feasting in valhalla right now

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Is the northern Italian Spadone the sexiest of the long swords?

>>2823180
That grip looks kinda weird, but otherwise it is pretty nice.

>>2821987
Why?

>>2822249
Something's wrong with you

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>>2823180
Spadone means sword you twat just say Italian style sword or be more specific about what features you are saying are so great.

Historical marital arts are bullshido that would never work in a real weapons scenario. You kids can play samurai/viking/knight and LARP all you like while the adults are target shooting with aliveness and preparing for an actual shootout when the shit hits the fan.

>>2824999
It actually means "big sword"

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>>2825067
Who cares?

>>2824999
It means big sword in Italian, and is a standing term. You twat.

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>>2825067
>Not doing both
Pleb.

>>2825067
>Historical marital arts
What, like sucking dick to get that ring but then having a convenient headache for five decades?

>>2825336
ouch

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>>2825336
>historical marital arts
>tfw they know

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>>2825067

>>2824999
No. Spada is the plain term for sword.

>>2822249
Rats or mice?

>>2818864

He was forgetting the best of german fencing

>>2811859
>English longsword
You know, I've been reading Ledall on Wiktenauer. It looks like gibberish to me, even when "translated" to modern English.

Does anyone have decent interpretations of English longsword sources?

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DON'T FORGET TO STRETCH!

>>2828926
I'd open her lizard, if you know what I mean.

Really, though, it's my upper arms and shoulders that are usually the stiffest, not my hips.

>>2826268
Rats

>>2824984
Not sure what I was supposed to do, it had its head crushed in a snap trap but was still breathing/kicking

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>>2827007
>You know, I've been reading Ledall on Wiktenauer. It looks like gibberish to me, even when "translated" to modern English.
>Does anyone have decent interpretations of English longsword sources?
M8, there's about three others. Plus there's all the stuff Paul (not that I'm a fan) and co. have in Art of Mars.
AND YouTube.

But the TL;DR is that it's functionally very close to late (e.g. Alfrei) Spadone/Montante. Like LATE, we're talking 1600's late.
Add to it thrusts with a single hand (e.g. di Grassi), and using Silver's and Swetnam's basic principles; BOOM, English """longsword""".

>>2828926
What if I literally have bones obstructing my hip/femur from getting anymore than 90'?
What if I'm a male with different hip structure?

>>2829433
>What if I literally have bones obstructing my hip/femur from getting anymore than 90'?
What?

>What if I'm a male with different hip structure?
I'm too but that's not gonna stop me

>>2829433
>What if I literally have bones obstructing my hip/femur from getting anymore than 90'?
surgery time

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>>2829459
>What?
Hereditary Multiple Exostoses brah.
>>2829524
>surgery time
If I want a total femural-head replacement at 26yo, sure.

>>2829550
>Hereditary Multiple Exostoses brah.
Oh damn, in which ways does that limit (except for stretching ofc)

>>2828926
>happy baby
KEK

>>2813735
pros: -Fiore's is a good multi-weapon system where the principles apply all throughout
-Fiore's sword is more nuanced than people give it credit for, mostly because most people who comment on it are shit at Fiore
-It is very relevant to actual self-defence if you actually practice the abrazare and daga like he wanted you to

Cons: -plenty of bad Fiore interpretations
-people will claim Fioreists aren't good at tournaments and ignore the fact that the vast majority of people who go to tournaments are German style which is the real reason.
-Your testicles will start to drag on the floor and your beard will grow exponentially

>>2819705
...?

>>2825067
>implying I don't do practical shooting + HEMA
>Not being a multi-period warrior
Faggot

>>2828926
That looks painful.

>>2831410
4u

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>>2829560
>in which ways does that limit
Mobility.
Lunges/stances in certain angles simply aren't possible.
That being said, I've been blessed with one ankle that can touch the ground when lunging far enough, however my body tends to be very upright, and my shins/knees don't go beyond mid foot without MAXIMUM AGONY.
I have found Destreza to be pretty accessible, and more moderate later Italian stuff.
English rapier is a piece of cake as it's a hybrid that requires a quite vertical/upright stance with legs relatively close together (think a cross of Fabris and Thibault).
>Other random bits
- I can't mount a horse from the correct side.
- I can't pull guard/shimmy out of certain wrestling locks
- I can walk on slopes like a boss
- I can mechanically make things work, however dealing with "instructors" who force you to go in to certain positions because it's "muh master" immediately mean I need not return to that club.

>>2830619
Is it just my own perception, or does Fiore have less tools to work with than Lichtenauer? I love me some Fiore, especially when I use it against new or unsafe fighters, but I can't help but think that Fiore was teaching a method of fighting that was quite simply expanded upon by the German masters. I mean no offence with this.

For example, Fiore practitioners say the counter to a double-Zwerchau is to close in and stop the rotation on the sword's axis with a grab or hard bind, but I've never seen them be able to pull it off, not even Richard Marsden, whose club I was a part of for a few years.

>>2833723
I always felt like Fiore just gives a part of the solution. Like it needs to be integrated into the whole of longsword fencing, not taken separately.

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>>2833723
>>2834161
imo Fiore's system is basically the dall'Agocchie/Viggiani of "Systems".
The Starting Strength of longsword.
Contact, control, kill, repeat.

He teaches you the big, bad, basics that underpin and apply to pretty much everything weapon related.
Hell, he even TELLS US that if it wasn't for books one couldn't remember all the plays.

As far as I'm concerned, having practised both early and later German as well as later Italian systems, I'd take Fiore's system in to the battle field, but use Lichtenauer in a duel/tournament.

And purely anecdotally, for what it's worth, Fiore carries over much better for SCA/LARP/BoTN/HMB/Melees when there are people EVERYWHERE covered in VARIOUS levels of protection, and your "Windshield-Wiper of Doom" from Zettel 6.4 won't do shit.

>However
I will say this... If you ONLY use Fiore's longsword section in ISOLATION, the whole thing goes to shit.

FUCKING POMMEL THROWING MEME!
FUCKING YOUTUBE!
FUCKING NORMIES!

/asp/,

What style would you recomend most for someone who prefers the option to switch between one- and two-handed strikes, and prefers shoulderchecking and pommel strikes over leaving the bind?

>>2834700
I would recommend dying in a fire. I think that would fit your needs well, you fucking faggot.

>>2833723
>For example, Fiore practitioners say the counter to a double-Zwerchau is to close in and stop the rotation on the sword's axis with a grab or hard bind, but I've never seen them be able to pull it off, not even Richard Marsden, whose club I was a part of for a few years.
Isn't the concept of stopping it with a hard bind or a slice, the abschneiden?

>>2834700
You'll find this isn't easy to do. Those things rarely happen in common sparring. You can try anyway, if you train at it maybe you'll make it work.
Just don't forget safety.

>>2835470
Abschneiden is a German technique, don't think Fiore has it.

>>2828926

Any stretches for feet? When I'm doing warm up exercises and shit I feel like the arches of my feet are going to split in half, and it fucking hurts.

>>2834194
when you say use in isolation, you mean without the grappling stuff?

>>2835470
pressing the hands when he takes off is hande trucken, not abschneiden. another standard
German response to it would be to block the first zwerch and then overbind and press down before he pulls his blade back. maybe that's what he meant by a hard bind

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How good are they really?

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>>2839166
Better question: Koning Gloves or Sparring Gloves?
SPES Heavies are too bulky

>>2838919
>when you say use in isolation, you mean without the grappling stuff?
Yep, or any other section. Yes, I have seen some people who are that retarded.

>>2839471
>SPES Heavies are too bulky
In that case not Konings, they're huge. They're great, but they're fucking huge.

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Any workouts/drills to get as fast as this guy or is it just consistent practice? Is his feder just really light?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR9rN4_32Xw

>>2839863
>They're great, but they're fucking huge.
Good to know, thanks!

>>2839877
>Twerhau solo drills with footwork
>Meyer square solo, with lots of Twers, strong and false edge, with footwork
>Meyer square in pairs, with footwork
>half tempo pair drills for Twer Vor-Nachschlag combos
>full kit full spead pair drills for Twer Vor-Nachschlag combos
>lots of footwork drills, general fitness, and lots of sparring practice

couple ten thousand repetitions and you're there.

If you like to start simple, do the Meyer square as fast as you can, with your hands higher than your head. Use pivot strikes as shown and try to make elegant front edge back edge combos.

>>2839910
If you got girly hands, go for the sparring gloves, they make girl sizes. Still kinda bulky, but less so than all others.

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>longsword

>>2839855
Liechtenauer also has grappling as an integral part of the system, but people seem to do well enough without it. Is the grappling just more closely integrated in Fiore?

>>2840733
I think grappling, in general, is more relevant and useful in situations where you don't have the time and space to maintain distance or retreat, i.e, anything other than a formal dueling environment.

If you're on the street facing 3 goons, you want to take each guy down as fast as possible, so you're going to engage, close, and disarm or throw them to the ground before the other guy comes around and stabs you from behind. Or on a battlefield, where retreating is usually a bad thing, you try to press forward and capture ground from your enemy, so you naturally are inclined to get close to your foe.

Our based 4CC team manager is taking player submissions >>2839145

>>2839166
I have the old pair and they're fucking awful. The new version looks like it fixes all the problems with them but I haven't used them first hand.

>>2839471
The 5 finger sparring gloves are surprisingly wide. Probably not as bad as the Spes or koning but I wouldn't call them slim

Depends on the weapon you want to use:

>Longsword/arming sword
The regular hoof gloves are 1000% more comfortable and provide better protection with basically the same mobility

>Rapier
Won't fit inside your guard

>Sidesword w/ complex hilt
Probably won't fit inside your guard

>Sidesword with just a finger ring and MAYBE a knuckle bow
go for it, but wear glove liners or they'll literally rub all your skin off

>>2841420
This was meant for >>2839166

>>2841420
Messer will fit, so will most regenyei sabers. This glove is for the heavy hitters, no need to buy it if you do rapier anyways.

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>>2840914
>you're on the street facing 3 goons
>doesn't post the picture
c'mon son

>>2839166
>How good are they really?
Meme tier.
They managed to combine all the worst features of mitten gauntlets AND fingered gauntlets all in to one.

>>2841836
Yes, thats the reason why the majority of tournament fighters use them.

Is learning the ways of the pole-axe worth the time? How difficult is it relative to Fiore longsword?

>>2841836
Elaborate please, because what >>2841855 says is right (from my experience)

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>>2809607
BASED MEYER

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>>2842130
If you're learning Fiore's longsword, why wouldn't you learn his poleaxe as well? Besides, what does "worth" has to do with anything?

>>2841833
Nice, now I imagine a version of Ungerer's Robbers with the Fiore goons...

>>2842505
>If you're learning Fiore's longsword, why wouldn't you learn his poleaxe as well? Besides, what does "worth" has to do with anything?
I'm operating on a rather tight time-scale at the moment.

>>2842339
This is kind of funny

>>2842130
Poleaxe is cool

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Should I learn Marozzo, Manciolino or Meyer for sidesword skills which could be transposed to other weapons?

>>2843764
Aren't Manciolino and Marozzo basically the same?

>>2843842
Basically, but Manciolino is less verbose in his instruction.
Marozzo? Dude just craps on A LOT but does have a HUGE repitoire.
Anonimo Bologanese is probably a nice compromise-Oh wait, that's right, THE FUCKING ITALIAN'S HAVE IT BEHIND A PAYWALL!

Anyone of you doing serious research in HEMA?

>>2839877
>that video
Martina Fabian is a great coach! Kudos!!

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Beginneranon from the last thread. Decided to do the full Longsword course and am really enjoying it. Recent class revolved around working on thrusts and doing things from the bind, as you can see from the pic. Wanted to ask what would be the best way to practice this. I don't have someone to practise with to apply pressure and stuff outside of training. Would simply going through the movements be the best thing to do? Was /asp/ down for a while, I couldn't post a couple hours ago.

>>2844233
>Wanted to ask what would be the best way to practice this. I don't have someone to practise with to apply pressure and stuff outside of training.
To be perfectly frank, this is one of many skills in HEMA/fencing generally which can't be effectually practiced without a partner.

>>2844370
Well shit, guess I'll just stick to Meyer's square and stuff for the time being and focus on getting as much as I can during the course. Cheers anyway anon.

>>2844233
easy, for thrusts hang up a tennis ball with a string on a door lintel. train to fence the ball. If you can hit a fast swinging tennis ball, you can stab a moving hand or a head.

>>2844430
That's a really good idea, will give that a try in a few days, thanks a bunch.

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Serious question.
Do any of you HEMAfags started watching Wrestling after Hiroyuki sent the mandramafags here, or am the only one?

t. Skateboardfag

>>2844443
Remember, this is for hand eyer coordination, but if your hallway has enough space, make sure to get the footwork right. Successful thrusting is based on control of the distance by good footwork, and a impeccable feeling for distance. If you hit the ball but your footwork sucks, you still failed.

>>2844451
Honestly no, I stopped browsing any other thread on /asp/ once the man drama came here. I miss the old day when we shat on {{{Chinese martial arts}}} together and had cool webm threads about street fights.

>>2844451
No, I watched as a kid but don't care anymore.
This board made me like it even less

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tApwgPsaa7s
Damn, does sport fencing training make sense for HEMA? I guess rapier and saber benefit from it but longsword?

>>2844451
Nope. I just stoped browsing other threads. Sad but true

>>2844430
>ends up stabbing opponents IN the balls

nailed it

>>2845093
>Damn, does sport fencing training make sense for HEMA?
Well, yes?
You've just got to pick out the extra sport/rule eccentric bits and it's basically the same.
Watching a Longsworder get gassed fighting someone with only Oly fencing experience really drives this home.
Watching "Muh Ringen" dudes get wrecked by a 55yo Polish former Greco-Roman wrestler is also good.
>They make squeaky noises when he did that bearhug thing and was clearly crushing them under his Dad/Old man strength
>He broke them, made them humble.

>>2845379
Time for agility ladder training and those spicy italian exercises!

>tactics
>speed
>technique
>strength
what's most important in a fight for you guys?

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>>2845423
Since I'm not athletic, tactics and technique to compensate against better fencers. I still get my ass kicked nonetheless. Why am I posting here, I should be running.

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>>2842339
I so doubt about Thibault
some action only happen when the opponent never move, or you can faster than light speed.
(I'm newbie)
Is this style really work?

>>2845577
If you haven't had the privilege of reading Thibault, then it's pointless trying to discuss it.

Yes, the style worked for 200+ years.

>>2845707
what privilege? It's just a manual selling in bookstore
anyway
I am curious why a most detail manual like this
but haven't many practicer

>>2844451
>Do any of you HEMAfags started watching Wrestling after Hiroyuki sent the mandramafags here
Nope. It just made me mentally reduce the board to this thread.

>>2846410
tragic thing is, me too and I liked old /asp/. Yellow moot has really killed that with the mandramaqueens.

>>2845808
>I am curious why a most detail manual like this
>but haven't many practicer
Because it is indeed immensely complex compared to say, Giganti.

Destreza is, while seemingly simple, pretty convoluted for the average HEMA person.

>>2847779
>Destreza is, while seemingly simple, pretty convoluted for the average HEMA person.
On top of that Thibault isn't "pure" Destreza, the Spanish diestros of his time regarded it as an adulteration of the style and principles. So he doesn't get as much attention from people doing Destreza either.

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>>2847779
I read the Thibaut manual( 1/5 i think), not really "complex",
mystics circles just a convenient tool for guide, or maybe I'm wrong

>>2847786
I noticed that before, Destreza master dislike Thibaut for some reasons
I always have a doubt "Did he a 17century KungFu Sifu?"

most of the Sifu only do demo but no sparring, opponent act like a dummy
so the Sifu can do whatever he want.

for example in Thibaut
Alexander(right) Zachary(left)
I point out the "path"
in B-C
I don't know why Zachary can't do anything with his shield in "B" and let Alexander cut his head in "C"

Is there have anyone can share Thibaut style fight or some experience?

>>2847786
>>2848106
It should be noted that during the beginning of the Destreza movement (1580's and up to when Thibault wrote his treatise (1628), the Eighty Years war was going pretty strongly. Also Thibault apparently had a demonstration in front of the son of William the Silent.
So we can't rule out the fact that political dissension could be a big point regarding the opposition of the spanish masters to Thibault. It has to play a role somehow.

So what's the best manual for someone that never read one? I've been taking classes for 2 years and now I want to try reading and understanding one. We mostly do italian, so I would be inclined towards that, but german is fine too. I also want to get a physical copy, so I has to be somewhat easy to find/order from a bookstore

>>2848694
Which weapon(s) though?

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>read a manga
>take it as a destreza joke

>>2848526
In the other side
Thibault always talk about "Circle" but never mention "Destreza" in his book
and he already learnt fencing before Destreza

>>2848802
I didn't studied destreza or thibault that much, but it's clear that Thibault is very close to the spanish style, he lived in a spanish state and went to spain. A lot of things in his book points to destreza, he doesn't even need to put the name in it for the spanish diestros to not take it well (they didn't seemed to need much considering they then did the same with the colonial destreza). The fact that they served antagonists powers seems to me a simple explanation of why they couldn't really be super-friendly towards each other. It's one thing that may be little in the grand scheme of things, but it's there.

>>2848754
Sorry I'm an idiot
I like both arming sword or longsword, but I'm also interested in abrazare and dagger

>>2848802
>he already learnt fencing before Destreza
>before
Gerard Thibault, Academy of the Sword, 1628
Luis Pacheco de Narvaez, Greatness of the Sword, 1600
Jeronimo Sanchez de Carranza, On THe Philosophy of Arms, 1569

Thibault definitely doesn't precede or parallel the development of the Spanish school.

There seem to be a lot of Thibaultfags in this thread, so can I ask if the new edition of his book is any good? The translator seems to be a turbofaggot on every level, calls himself an occultist and shit, so I'm worried he'll be """interpreting""" the book, jabbering about sacred geometry or some shit, just reading stuff into it that isn't there.

>>2849119
His first instructor is Lambert van Someren
>>2849130
Thibault's book really talk about occultism in early chapter

>>2849228
>Thibault's book really talk about occultism in early chapter
Okay, cool, but that doesn't really answer my question whether the translation's decent.

>>2849402
I think it's ok

>>2842339
>Not stomping on all in your path
God damned sports fencers

>>2842130
Fiore's system is a system, so it is definitely worth the time.
There aren't many poleaxe plays as he expects you to interpret the things he already showed you in everything else.

>>2833723
Frontale the first zwerch and advance into the second while pushing the sword across them going to their left shoulder/over the arms.

The problem with most Fiore practitioners is they say they are Fiore practitioners while fucking lacking in their master battle skills and largo plays.

>>2848764
I don't get it

>>2850359
Autismal obsession with angles as an "easier" way to teach the thing than actually showing and describing how to do it is a caricature of verdadera destreza and its obsession with math.

>>2849784
This was the kind of answer I was waiting for. Thanks.

>>2848106
>most of the Sifu only do demo but no sparring, opponent act like a dummy
>so the Sifu can do whatever he want.

Yes.

As a pedagogical tool.

There are plenty of counters, counters to counters, etc. later on in the book.

Look at the above discussion on Fiore for example. Some of the counters are demonstrated later on, sometimes with different weapons entirely, but they're in there.

However when teaching people, especially through a book, you don't want to overwhelm them otherwise they end up not being able to do even the basics right.

>>2848856
>colonial destreza
What is this?
Mexican or Filipino?

>>2849820
>...Fiore practitioners... fucking lacking in their master battle skills...
More like manslaughter or grievous bodily harm charges.
Oh snap, Fiore really is 2dedly4u tier!

>>2850639
>Autismal obsession with angles as an "easier" way to teach the thing than actually showing and describing how to do it is a caricature of verdadera destreza and its obsession with math

I actually think, given they didn't have a name for it back in the day outside of "eccentric", that they may have in fact been legitimately autistic.

That would explain the great "Reee"-ing of all the older Escrima Commune/Common Fencing texts.

>"¡QUIERO ESCRIBIR COMÚN PARA DEJAR!"
>"¡REEE!"

>>2850639 >>2851302
>it is a caricature of verdadera destreza and its obsession with math.

And it even pops-up in "Don Quixote"!

>>2851276
Yes mexican and peruvian specifically, I think... that there is some filipino stuff (not sure).
Iirc, there's a mexican dude that started doing Destreza in his own fashion, then Rada said something against it, then a peruvian guy wrote something in the lines on "defending the destreza indiana" and it was on.

https://openlibrary.org/books/OL24357581M/Ilustracion_de_la_destreza_indiana._Epistola_oficiosa

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>>2809607
Does anyone have a pdf of McBane's work? I've been looking for them to no avail, all I've found are bits and pieces.

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>>2852958
>Does anyone have a pdf of McBane's work?
Nope. It's locked up tighter than a nun's snatch.
Just buy the Jared Kirby ed.
>https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1542618320?ref_=sr_1_1&qid=1484930692&sr=8-1&keywords=donald%20mcbane&pldnSite=1
Help support researchers.

>>2851615

peruvian here, is there a destreza branch in Latinamerica? I never heard about that. Ii will be nice but I heard that destreza is not well documented, so I bet this branch of it won't be either.

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Hey guys, I am in the market for my first sparring saber. As I am a poorfag I don't have the funds to drop $250+ on one.

So Im pretty much relegated to either the Hanwei series (Hutton, Pecoraro, Radaelli) or the Cold Steel Training Saber, which doesnt look too bad, all Cold Steel memes aside.

I was wondering if you guys had any advice or experience with these sabers, or if there was another product that Im missing.

Also,
Any info on when the Easton Saber will be out would be appreciated

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>>2858395
>Cold Steel Training Saber
Pretty good tbqh, had a few good saberists who commented positively on the look and feel of it (also there are quite a few positive reviews on youtube).
The saber needs a safety cap for the point though, it isn't as rounded as on the picture
Keep it always well oiled, it rusts pretty fast.

>>2858395
how nylon saber first?

>>2858395
From what I've heard Hanwei breaks all the time

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>>2858563
Solid advice, I think I will go with the cold steel.
The Hanwies just seem too risky
Thanks man

>>2858624
I do have a synthetic Polish sabre from Purple Heart, maybe I should have specified this will be my first STEEL sabre

>>2855634
I would but I'm only interested in it, I'm not even remotely planning on doing it. Besides, I think that restraining access to 300 years old documents kind of a dick move but then...

>>2855945
Well the link that I've put shows the existence of a book about "destreza indiana" wrote in Lima (1712) so there definitely WAS destreza fencing going on back then, don't know about now, don't know how much it's been researched, you'd have to look at people like Ton Puey's research, I think I heard him mentioning it... somewhere...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyKVnjyRlNA

>>2858395
Can't you just save up your money a little longer and then buy a decent sabre? I think Regenyei has a few months' waiting list right now so even if you got on it, you'd have some time to put more cash away.

>>2858395
I'd also recommend this >>2859342
50€ more isn't that neck-breaking and the quality is far superior!

>>2859342
>Regenyei has a few months' waiting list right now
About three months, I've ordered a Feder in early June and will get it at the end of August.

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>>2858818
>don't know how much it's been researched
Sounds like a good market for a new HEMA branch/school to me.

btw sabre dudes, what's this the guy's holding? 2nd bottom one looks like a Hutton?

>>2859793
Those are all various antique sport fencing swords, most of them sabres. I'd guess they're all Victorian, or maybe Edwardian.

>>2859811
>I'd guess they're all Victorian, or maybe Edwardian.
the electric one too?

>>2859990
I was about to write the same thing

>>2859990
Haha, I didn't notice that one of them was wired. No, that one isn't an antique, then.

>>2859793
Are those a child's hands?

>>2862066
The guards are just really big.

Over the last few months I started adapting a more sport fencing like stance with both heels being in line, for longsword.
How bad is that really? I haven't got any problems with lateral movements or balance but I'm hearing and seeing everywhere that you need to take a broader stance for german longsword.
What does /hema/ think?

>>2864291
I think most people would instinctually say thats wrong, but I would disagree. As long as that work for you then more power to you

Although, just be careful that you're using it and winning with it against multiple opponents. If you're only fencing one or two guys, it could trick into thinking its more advantageous than it it

>>2864499
>against multiple opponents
I'm more of a tournament fencer, we generally haven't done any 1 vs X fights, although that would be quite interesting!
Maybe I should film myself while sparring, I sometimes get the feeling that I'm switching between a broader stance and the sport fencing stance which is probably fine according to the situation.

I guess filming myself while sparring is generally a good way to find mistakes and bad habits?

>>2864291
>Over the last few months I started adapting a more sport fencing like stance with both heels being in line, for longsword.
Please don't tell me you also put your right foot front and usually fight from a left/mid Pflug? And try to snipe from a distance?

For your question, in general older line German tradition longswrod has a narrower stance but feet are more off line. This comes from the wrestling basics and its more bellicose roots. It offers advantages in defense and is godlike for infights. You can step into the flanks and off the line real fast.
However, you sacrifice a small bit of range and a split second in the Vorschlag.

Newer line German tradition has a wider, more in line and lower stance compared to the older, yet the feet are still not fully in line. the emphasis is less on wrestling and more on a series of fast strikes for which such a stance is more suitable. you make a ton of range in very short time and can follow up with several more hits.

Both stances work ok even for their less favorite tactics. You can do nasty Vorschlag from a high stance and you can do good wrestling in Meyer ass-down mode.

If you go full sports fencing mode you have advantages for your blade work, but you are prone to a set of attacks, Gayzler will fuck your leg real bad and guys that know their wrestling (hello Fiore) will pound you in the ground. The more physical it gets the more you are fucked.

>>2864994
>Please don't tell me you also put your right foot front and usually fight from a left/mid Pflug? And try to snipe from a distance?
Sometimes I actually do but my most favored guards are right vom Tag on the shoulder, left Pflug (without one-handed sniping) and Alber.
So no, I'm doing actual longsword fencing, I was just worried that I may have developed a bad habit.

>>2864567
Shit, maybe should have spoken clearer.

I didnt mean 1vsX, I just meant multiple sparring partners. If you only spar the same people over and over again, you're liable to enforce techniques that will only work against them

>>2865015
how tall are you?

>>2865018
>I just meant multiple sparring partners [...] you're liable to enforce techniques that will only work against them
Yeah I'm sparring against different opponents because I fear exactly that!

>>2865024
177cm / ~5'10
why?

>>2865045
>why?
Because it is a different thing if a tall person does the sports fencing stance on you or a short one. ince you are more or less average it doesn't really matter.

>>2865059
Good to know, thanks!

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>>2864291
>I started adapting a more sport fencing like stance
>>2864567
>I'm more of a tournament fencer,
>>2864994
>Please don't tell me you also put your right foot front and usually fight from a left/mid Pflug? And try to snipe from a distance?

"HEMA" 2.0

Welcome to the meta gaming.

>>2865243
>Please don't tell me you also put your right foot front and usually fight from a left/mid Pflug? And try to snipe from a distance?
B-but I'm not doing that?! (I still get what you're meaning though...)

>>2864567
>I guess filming myself while sparring is generally a good way to find mistakes and bad habits?

Yeah, this works, but is better when you have someone else to point you in the moment when you made a mistake.

>>2865243
Oh God it's already happening

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>>2866507
>Oh God it's already happening

ikr? And all the bsd's kept saying "It's not gonna happen, nope, never. HEMA is DIFFERENT! WE'RE NOT OLY FENCING REEE!"

Tip tok kek. Turns out when there's prizes and glory on the line, people will game the fuck out of the rules.

We had one dude where I am claim that he trained in a, wait for it, "Tournament Style"***. The sad thing? IT WORKED.

Because the local circuit in our area haven't clamped down on Double Hitting yet, and it was about points (awarded based on blade flex and who struck first), he'd get hit usually immediately afterwards but because he "Won the Vor" his buddy would rant and rave at the referees until they awarded him the point.

It was a disgusting display of unsportsmanlike behaviour (like tennis champion tantrum level).

Thank fucking Christ we had a "Solo and Paired Assulti/Form" competition. The resident Bolognese dude won it (obviously), but the "Tournament Style" dude STILL bitched about how everyone else should reward his solo-forms as they were "really martially effective" as opposed to "Gay Italian dance moves".

Do you think we should ban him? We would, but we don't want him making a splinter faction of dumb asses shitting up the small community we've worked to create for three years.


*** It was a combination of Kendo, Olympic Epee, and a few Longpoint/Swordfish/Dijon YouTube seminars.

>>2867944
I think Hema should get back at its routes. manuals, plays ect. and if someone is disruptive to the group they should be encouraged to change.

As for the tournament style there cant be a tournament style unless you have standardized competitions with standardized rules. Start changing up the rules each time and the tournament style will fall apart.

>>2867944
take your pills, you are getting euphoric again.

>>2867944
>>2867995
>It was a combination of Kendo, Olympic Epee, and a few Longpoint/Swordfish/Dijon YouTube seminars.
What the actual fuck??
I'm the 'tournament fencer' anon, but I'm still reading manuals (especially analyzing the images), going to workshops (Dreynevent <3), sparring with lots of different people (from my club and others), watching lots of videos and reading forums.
I love HEMA because of the sport and competition element and not that much because of the 'archeology', it's still fun reading those 500 years old manuals!

Gaming the rules and tournament styles are bullshit, I love sniping hands from Alber but in our national ruleset hands are not a legal target so I have to adapt.

>>2867944
>Because the local circuit in our area haven't clamped down on Double Hitting yet, and it was about points (awarded based on blade flex and who struck first)

Where the fuck is this? Please tell me so I can safely avoid ever training with anyone from there.

>>2867944
>haven't clamped down on Double Hitting yet
The Austrian tournament rules are nice in that regard, double hits are counted separately and if the winner has less points than the amount of double hits, he also loses.
They're really trying to penalize double hits as hard as possible which I like.
>http://historisches-fechten.at/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ÖFHF-tournament-rules-5.13.pdf

>>2867944
This is ultimately a problem of weak refereeing tbdesu. The first time the buddy started ranting the head judge should have told the sideliners to escort him the fuck out of the hall and warned the tournament guy privately that another episode of any kind would lead to his forfeiting the match and tournament.

As for the point counting, same thing. Not penalizing double hitting is archfaggotry and will inevitably produce archfaggots. That's not to excuse your local club homo, you understand, I'm just saying there are plenty more where he came from if you don't brick the fucking gateway up.

As for your club and your particular problem guy, don't ban him, just get in the habit of double-hitting and afterblowing him in the head hard as piss. He's gotta learn some time.

>>2869084
>As for your club and your particular problem guy, don't ban him, just get in the habit of double-hitting and afterblowing him in the head hard as piss. He's gotta learn some time.
This, anon. Just fuckin beat him into the ground. Some people never learn unless you force them to avoid suicide attacks

>>2867944
How does epee translate to longsword?

>>2869934
not well. you can use distance management and some other basic skills and if you train, exact thrusting. strike centric longsword and two handed techniques fucks up pretty much everything else you learned from epee so you gotta relearn. Wrestling techniques and painful punishments for overextending rounds the experience up.

>>2809627

man that guy would be hella dead

>>2869991
>>2869934

I'm more interested how kendo fits in the picture. I can't imagine he's using the more advanced tactics like kiriotoshi and other sword displacement techniques.

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>>2828926

>>2870345
>happy baby

>>2869111
Sometimes they just get more aggressive, btw. They think they just need to get faster and stronger. Until they reach the danger level and hurt someone.

>>2870706
taming a buffalo is an occupational risk, we are sword fighters.

Anyone groups doing German longsword in GTA/Southern Ontario?

I just need a group to train with. Not interested in joining AEMMA.

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>>2870307
>I'm more interested how kendo fits in the picture
That's a good point...

Thinking back to my [limited] practice, you stay in either:

- Chudan/Lang.
- Hasso/Vom.
- Gedan/Alber.
Or
- Jodan/Zorn.

Then you just displace every attack with either a rising false edge or descending true edge cut, trying to control the centre line and initiative/Vor.

You could also use displacements to the sides in a two tempi fashion.

The aggression/spirit from kendo would put off a lot of novice and intermediate longsworders, especially given "Crashing" is a kendo staple.

And, if the tournament DOESN'T permit grappling or one MUST keep both hands on the weapon at all times, throw in some occasional Tsuki/Thrusts and you have a functional, if incredibly stripped down, basic system.

Come to think of it, the above reminds me very much of Fiore's play where you displace with a falso from Porta di Ferro[?] then mandritto to the forearms/kote.

>>2871706
Most kendoka couldn't use hasso to save their lives. its in the kata but not used in competition because under kendo rules its just a less efficient jodan. Many cant even take the stance properly

But that is interesting, when you talk about displacing with a rising false edge are you describing something like suri-age?

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Is it normal for Meyer practitioners to have their feet rotated that far outwards/backwards?
Can you even move properly that way?

>>2872523
See the line on the ground? left fighter is stepping off the line of attack.
>Und tritt ihm zu seiner Rechten...

>>2870751
We're not sword fighters, we're wannabe sword fighters. I have a work and other hobbies, I don't make a living sword fighting. So I care for safety.

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>>2870213
better off than this buy

>>2871758
>Many cant even take the stance properly

I was told you weren't """allowed""" to use it until at least three or four years of kendoka practice.
I really had fun, I did as our sensei instructed and practised it in and of itself, but holy crap some of the bullshit arbitrary limits.

>But that is interesting, when you talk about displacing with a rising false edge are you describing something like suri-age?

Pretty much senpai.

>>2872523
I do because of ankle reasons.

Just be aware of the risks that come with it.

>>2875043
>Just be aware of the risks that come with it.
Which risks?
And how mobile are you when standing that way? (lateral movements, forward/back should be no problem I guess)
How stable is that stand? (e.g. for wrestling)

>>2875631
>How stable is that stand? (e.g. for wrestling)
It's Broken Ankle level in wrestling.
>And how mobile are you when standing that way?
Since I dabble in Destreza, it doesn't affect mobility in anyway, so long as you've practised.
>Which risks?
When over eager on the lunge or pass, I have rolled it thus taking me out of the comp.

I will say this, if you do a Meyer Sway it works perfectly.

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>ITT: People Holding Back HEMA

I'll start.

This cunt. THE example of resting on your laurels.

- Literally refused to digitise his over a decade old essays (even his co-founder is doing this) and will tell people to "Just buy it then rebut my argument :^)"

- Wears and propagates meme tier LARP costumes and protective equipment as "legitimate".

- Doesn't enter international tournaments because they're not "realistic".

>>2875865
Your statements may be valid and legitimate, but please refrain from shit-talking the people who are in this community.

>>2876788
>implying you wouldn't give him a free pass if he was bitching about your HEMA douche
Everyone has at least some light grudge against someone or a type of people in this community but yeah I prefer when complaints are aimed at certain behaviours and not at someone in particular.

>>2876788
Totally agree

In every club there's him. That guy. Talk about yours!

My club's "that guy" always fucks up drills and exercises. He thinks he's outsmarting the others by doing different stuff than what he's supposed to do. So he doesn't learn plays and techniques and sucks in actual free sparring. Then he complains saying the instructors don't teach him well enough.

>>2877792
>He thinks he's outsmarting the others by doing different stuff than what he's supposed to do. So he doesn't learn plays and techniques and sucks in actual free sparring.
Do we have the same? Did he also buy an arming sword for longsword fencing, uses it two handed as if it was a pistol (and does the same when given a longsword and told how to hold it longsword), thinks that masters names are jokes, tenses everything up when in a bind or wrestling so you cannot pull out the moves during exercises and keeps on pressing forward as if he didn't get hit when you managed to hit him then get out safely?

>>2876788
>>2877134
Go somewhere else if you want polite, considerate discourse, you fucking faggots.

>>2877831
>as if it was a pistol
what?

>>2876937
>Everyone has at least some light grudge against someone or a type of people in this community

Sure, that may be true. But given how small and how young our community is, I think it's important we discuss exemplary people/behavior rather than particularly shitty examples. We're still forming a solid identity, so it's best we form a consensus on who is the "ideal" HEMA practitioner is before we start saying who isn't.

Plus, negative discussion breeds exclusive behavior, and that's the last thing we need right now.

I just came here to say that I love every single last one of you crazy glorious bastards.
That said, I will Zornau you in the face next time I see you.
>t. anon

>>2876788
>>2877134
>>2878006
Problems won't go away if you don't address them. Besides if being exclusive keeps cunts like Paul out of hema then I'm all for it. I'd rather have a small community of good people than big one filled with shitty people.

>>2877792
>"that guy" always fucks up drills and exercises
Wrong, he doesn't fuck up, HE INTENTIONALLY CHANGES THE DRILL.
As far as I'm concerned they get two chances then you'd have to consider whether they're worth keeping around.
You're doing a drill, not trying to "win".

>>2877831
>keeps on pressing forward as if he didn't get hit when you managed to hit him then get out safely?
Sounds like a standard low-level tournamentfag who thinks the aggression of Gdansk/Polish-tier training is just about rhino-hiding/buffaloing.

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>>2878423
>>2878006
>>2876788
>>2876937

So what's the issue here with this guy in Australia? He does scottish broadsword and that about it from what I understand. Considering broadsword is largely irrelevant in HEMA at higher levels what's the problem?

>t. Quebecian needs to go to sleep but fucked up my circadian rhythm thanks to minwagecuck night duty

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>>2877792
>My club's "that guy" always fucks up drills and exercises
Guess I'm 'that guy'. Drills never seem to click with me. I always forget what I am supposed to do for drills. I feel the need to apologize to everyone that is paired with me as a partner.

>>2877792
Guy who was running the only club around decided to do "mixed-weapon" days where he'd use a number generator to select various cold-steel/rawlings waster stuff for people to fight with (bucklers, dummy knives, tomahawk, etc). We didn't train in any of those. It was odd.

Later it apparently became a group battles club or something.

>>2878018
>I will Zornau
*Zornhau
Learn you old german, anon

>>2878569
At least you acknowledge that you need your time to get the drill/technique.
There are others who do it and don't get that they're shitting up everything (or say it's their partner's fault)

>>2878423
>Problems won't go away if you don't address them

Physical problems, yes. But you know how you make idiots and bad ideas go away? You ignore and shun them. Let's not talk behind people's backs like catty bitches. If they aren't bringing their art to the fighting circle, they don't fuckin' matter. I interviewed Axel Pettersson last year and he described it well:

>"...competition puts you out there against other people who want to beat you, under a ruleset that everyone else has to fight under in front of your peers. And if you can't stand that test, like if you make excuses for stepping out of a fight, then you're not worthy. I'm fine with people who don't want to compete as long they fight somehow, or if you're injured; all that is fair. I don't give a damn about how you perform at a tournament, but I have much more respect for the new guy or girl who steps up and gets beat horribly, or the person that still gets beat horribly for years but still steps up, than the person who sits on the sideline and says, 'That's not the true art,' because those people have never put themselves out there to test themselves."
>I'd rather have a small community of good people than big one filled with shitty people

Those scenarios aren't mutually exclusive. More people equals more fighters, more variations of the same principles, and therefore more challenges and tests against your technique and art. If we have a solid identity and positive culture, it doesn't matter how many people join because the asshats and idiots will get weeded out.

>>2878002
One hand on the grip, the other hand on the first one.

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>>2879327
wtf, you mean like pic related?
why? how??

>>2879342
Because fuck you that's why and also fuck the source with a quarterstaff. He just doesn't want to accept how to hold the sword to get decent body mechanics.

>>2878018
>Can't think of anything but going full Zornhau
Here comes the simple peasant (but then if you don't know what to do of him...)

>>2878018
>I will Zornau you in the face next time I see you.
*Twerhaus behind you*
psssh nothing personnel peasant

>>2879346
>the source with a quarterstaff.
What did he mean by this?

>>2879678
>What did he mean by this?
sexually violating the original fencing manual using a wooden pole the length of 1.8 to 2.7 m

>>2877831
>tenses everything up when in a bind or wrestling so you cannot pull out the moves during exercises and keeps on pressing forward as if he didn't get hit when you managed to hit him then get out safely?
In my club there are two of those people. One doesn't press on when sparring and you hit him, but the other does and it is maddening. They both keep as tense as logs when trying exercises and drills, and when you complain they smirk as if they are some kind of godly swordsman

Which source would you recommend for two guys wanting to study rapier? I study Fiore, have no sports fencing background and the other guy is a sport fencer (epee) which manages a stage combat club while wanting to get into HEMA rapier because of all the stuff available in HEMA sparring and tournaments (dagger + rapier, cutting and so on).

>>2879868
and your native language is?

>>2879870
French, are you going to recommend Thibault? It would be better if it covered a lot of companion weapons, I don't know a lot about rapier masters but I was thinking of going for Fabris or Giganti.

>>2879090
>At least you acknowledge that you need your time to get the drill/technique
Doesn't really make me feel any better. I honestly feel like I'm wasting everyone's time.

>>2879880
Then get better. You are there to learn something and train, nobody can blame you for being shit. It takes years to get good and I saw outright basement dorks turn into fighters over the years, it is a slow process.

If you are the anxious type that jut can't get his body motorics right, and is afraid of how people will look at him,then for fucks sake go dancing or take a dancing class somewhere. It usually helps to overcome one's inhibitions and get some harmony in your movements.

Also do your bit of fitness, like running, swimming and calisthenics.

>protip, take a tango class if you ever dreamed of that experienced milf teaching you a lesson

>>2879876
Fabris is pretty high-level in terms of theory and physical requirement, so I would start with Capo Ferro or Giganti. They both have a complete system that someone unfamiliar with rapier fighting can read and learn from. Fabris is fucking cool but he doesn't spend a whole lot of time on the basics.

>>2880238
I'd even say the same goes for Capo Ferro. Not so physicaly demanding as Fabris but it seems that he also adresses a more experienced fencer than a beginner. Giganti on the other hand is rather nice to get into basics. Not much theory there thought.

>>2879868
>>2879876
Giganti also has a historical translation in French (1619) if that's your gig.
Other rapier treatises originally in French other than Thibault are Cavalcabo and Patenostrier, Dancie, Lovino (more sidesword-ish apparently).

>>2880238
>Fabris is pretty high-level in terms of theory and physical requirement
It's pretty sweet tho.
>mfw my poops have been easier since practising Fabris

>>2879956
Thanks for the advice.

Is it true Blood & Iron are a bunch of racists?

>>2878569
Try practicing at home or in an open space. Make sure you start slowly. Speed isn't important at first. Building a strong foundation is more important.

>>2881878
Huh. I'd heard some pretty sketchy things about those guys, but maybe they aren't all bad.

>>2881596
Yeah, you definitely don't want to try fencing like that after eating Mexican. We have poor enough ventilation as it is.

>>2881878
Where did you hear this?

>>2881878
They're a pretty average club, but nothing outside a typical American style "Let's make money".

>https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLFMQzjDBzInFNdLMiz3AGw
Oh my god, she's so fucking cute!
I absolutely adore east asians doing HEMA <3

>>2881878
Not that I know of, but they're from my BC where you need only exist as a Caucasian to be racist.

>>2883177
To be considered*

>>2825560
Look at these unfair dating standards. Man has to be ready to do battle at any moment and die for king and country and all she just has to look pretty and bear sons.

>>2883467
So why can't you get laid?

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anyone uses unusual locations for training?

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>>2879729
>They both keep as tense as logs when trying exercises and drills, and when you complain they smirk as if they are some kind of godly swordsman
AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
I hate this. There's nothing worse than a shithead autist who acts like he's Jesus for being a failure and an imbecile.

Nothing better than beating the shit out of them in sparring either.

bump to shame the faggot who made the new thread early

>>2884542
You really wanted to start a new thread, don't you?

>>2886176
>>2888744
>>2890707
you are one autistic cunt. No one loves you, not even your parents.