Eternal HEMA General (dodging edition)

>>2018598
>tfw finished reading/watching the Animators Survival
Is that Finnish?
Anyway, that's a pretty good way to capture the various styles.
>currently doing some mo-cap of Fabris
>it's going to be sweet

>>2018793
Hungarian I believe so, same same

>>2018589
That looks like a really beautiful exchange. It looks like that thrust would've gone through both lungs, and maybe even the heart.

Also, general question. I've been doing longsword for about 9 months. My club generally teaches early Lichtenauer, such as Dobringer. Which I like. But Meyer seems to have interesting things that I'd like to learn, and of course if I have an opportunity to learn something from another source, I'd jump on it.

Some people seem to be very adamant about working from a singular source for a particular weapon. What are your thoughts on only working only from one source?

>>2019441
I study Fiore
I'm going to keep sticking solely with Fiore until I get relatively experienced with it, and then I can look into branching out.
I think it's best to focus on getting good at one style before branching out, otherwise you become average at all the styles you split your attention between.

I am looking into sword and buckler though.

>>2019441
Liechtenauer and Meyer are different in some techniques, I would not recommend a newbie to mix them, because it can lead to misunderstandings. However, reading manuals like von Ringeck or von Danzig along with Döbringer is just fine.

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Ah, I have missed you HEMA general, gave up searching through endless wrestling threads back in the summer.
So: Leon Paul have a prototype heavy, all-steel mask, designed for longsword, staff, poleaxes, and anything else liable to crumple a fencing mask.
I'm not getting one, for the same reason I don't want a gambeson style jacket or steel gauntlets: none of the styles I study are armoured, so I want my kit to 'disappear' as much as possible while still offer protection.

>>2023600
Now thats metal! So far I managed to survive with my Uhlmann mask, and I see no reason to upgrade for now. If I ever wander into the fields of pole arms, I might consider it, but my opinion is that the fencing mask itself offers enough protection against impact, it is just that most of the force gets transfered to your head and thats what concusses you when you get hit with a full blown Zornhau on the sweet spot. I think only padding solves that, not more metal.

>>2023600
That's really some excellent back of head and cervical protection.

>>2023868
There's really no good suspension mechanisms for HEMA masks that have longsword in mind. A construction helmet protects the top, but it doesn't help too much for the sides or diagonals.

>>2023600
>literally the exact same idea/design I've built after 8 months of learning to weld
FUCK

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Courtesy of AHF.

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>>2024705
And again.

>>2024705
>>2024722
Fug

Anyway, the non-ant sizes of these restored and digitised A1 size posters are at http://swordfight.uk/resources/

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And now we have them here

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>>2024820

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if all else fails, give em the fiore special

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>>2023600
So they're just remaking That Guy's fencing masks? I would like to see slimmer and lighter masks, not heavier ones.

>>2026192
>Foot to the bollocks

I believe the correct term is, "kick to the lower beard."

>>2024705
>>2024722
Cool now I can train my genius ants to fence with the broadsword!

The appropriate ones are nice though.

>>2024149
>cervical
... how does it protect... oh right that cervix
>>2026261
Well, the designer compared it to a cross between That guy's and the current LP titan. But yeah I'm with you, I want to feel like I'm fighting unarmoured as much as possible without endangering myself or restricting the other guy. I feel like the aim in HEMA kit should be just protective enough to avoid lasting injury. That said, I'm glad to see that the idea of one set of kit for all weapons and styles is slowly fading away.

>>2027362
In anatomy, cervical is an adjective that has two meanings:
1. of or pertaining to any neck.
2. of or pertaining to the female cervix: i.e., the neck of the uterus.
Commonly used medical phrases involving the neck are
-cervical collar
-cervical disc (intervertebral disc)
-cervical lymph nodes
-cervical nerves
-cervical vertebrae
-cervical rib
Phrases that involve the uterine cervix include
-cervical cancer
-cervical smear or Pap smear

Athomelongswordfag here again, at what point should I look for someone to spar with? I feel like I'm learning the moves decently easily, and I should be sparring with someone by now. How confident should I be in my swordplay before finding someone to spare with.

Side note, can anyone recommend a sword for me? I'm incredibly cheap which is part of the reason I don't want to make the 77 mile trip to the nearest longsword club, but the only ones I've seen have been at least 500$+. I figure I should have something better than my current dowel rod to spar with.

>>2027621
You shouldn't spar, but do the same drills with a partner, and see how it works. Also, you should make the trip to the club, and when you are there, check for fencing masks, because thats the thing you need if you do partner drills.
Also, munitions grade feder on Etsy (https://www.etsy.com/listing/271083980/made-to-order-munitions-grade-fechtfeder) is your cheapest usable offer, 8-10 weeks waiting time plus shipping.

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I got a /his/ question for you guys because I want more practical experience

It is not explained exactly why Romans abandoned the long oval shield and short sword after hundreds of years of use.

Can some one who has fought with both a short sword and great-shield, and then a longsword and round-shield tell me the advantages of the latter?

There are still many people who believe Rome fell in part to no more scutum+gladius equipment.

>>2027866
Likely metallurgical advances and small unit tactics needed for low intensity border conflicts.
But it is all speculation as we got no real sources.

>>2027901
Ah, ok thank you. Could you explain the metallurgical advances theory? You mean shortswords were abandoned as soon as longswords became more viable to wield?

>>2028384
Long sword better than short sword. Me take long sword.


Also, metallurgy with iron was only able to produce short, stiff blades until smiths discovered how to make blades longer and more flexible, which took hundreds of years because there weren't a lot of people with free time to think and experiment back then.

>>2027866
More foreign Mercenaries and Auxiliaries.

>>2028384
Poor metallurgy means brittle weapons, can't be too long or they'll break frequently.

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Anyone have experience with Viktor Berbekucz feders?

http://www.woodenswords.com/product_p/feder.vb.standard.1.htm

http://www.swordsviktor.com/workshop

>>2029318
In our club everyone uses them, in about 8 years of use only 2 or 3 broke (of the 40 or so we ordered in those years) and only one of them broke within the first few weeks but he replaced the 'blade' for free

>>2027866
Reenactor here
In my experience, a gret shield combined with a short weapon is typical of highly disciplined adn trained troops.
On the contrary, a longer sword and a smaller shield are better suited for individual(ish) combat.
This makes much sense considering the late roman history and the barbarization of its army

>>2028384
Yes I could, but ferro metallurgy of the roman empire is a large topic and this thread is not the right place. If you are interested, open a thread on /his/ and I'll contribute.

>>2024833
>>2024820
>hanging and half circle guards held below the head

iirc, certain manuals say specifically not to do that, which is something experience has always shown to be good advice for me.

Interesting. I'll have to go see if I can find a source for that advice though.

From a purely hypothetical standpoint, how useful is formal sword combat training in an actual mass battle? Could any of these guards and stances be applied in combat, or are they all useless against an army?

>>2031464
Depends entirely on the system. Most of them, afaik, were designed for a duelling setting, but knowing the basic principles of how to use the weapon would be vitally important in a massed battle, even if most of the techniques you know are useless. Most weapons were used in a totally different or very reduced fashion when used in a massed battle.

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>>2031293
The Hanging guard looks like it covers the head to me.
And Circle Guard is really just to protect the wrist so whether or not it covers the head doesn't really matter IMO.

>>2031496
Yeah I don't know why I said hanging guard. And as for the wrist point, the group I spar with doesn't do that. Have you found using half circle to guard the wrist effective? We usually just switch from one point up guard to the other.

>>2031477
On this, I noticed that for example Christmann's saber fencing is for war time use, he even teaches techniques against multiple opponents, or fencing against guys on horseback. Now I guess that that his target audience where German citizen-soldiers of the time. Does anyone else know of an earlier manual with a clearly martial focus? Does such a thing even exist given the different social structure pre 19th century? Most I know are either dueling, friendly or academic rooted.

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>tfw you will never have someone make a sword in your honor and send their son halfway across the world to deliver it to you
http://www.mountvernon.org/preservation/collections-holdings/browse-the-museum-collections/object/w-85/#

>>2031464
>>2031477
>>2031572
You always need to know the basics before going into more complex subjects so it's indeed a good thing to know basic guards and basic cuts, footwork and how the blades work in a bind. Stuff like plays might be a little bit superfluous in a battlefield scenario, but the others are always the base of fighting practices. Before learning how to fight with partners against many others, it's not a bad thing to know how to fight 1 vs 1, and moreso, you can't learn 1 vs many (or even many vs many) without knowing first 1 vs 1, it's like burning steps.
It would be like thinking that formal boxing training is useless in a street brawl with many people involved.

Besides, even treatises focused on duelling or 1 vs 1 encounters can have multiple contexts, be it formal fight or a sudden agression. Some masters were former soldiers of infantry, so it's not crazy to think that they would imagine their skills somehow fitting a battlefield, in a pinch at least.

>Does anyone else know of an earlier manual with a clearly martial focus?
>martial
You mean treatises for battles or at least military training? A limited definition of "martial" describes pretty much all treatises otherwise.
On the top of my mind, I know for sure that Bonaventura Pistofilo (1621), P.J.F. Girard (1740) and Johann Georg Pascha (late 17th) all have drills and military practices, either formal or directly for the battlefield. Girard even have grenade drills!

retarded question: can someone explain to me or have a good video that shows how a Geferhau from Lecküchner actually works?

>>2029318
varies greatly in quality. Some people says it's good some says it's shit. Probably depends on which batch do you get

how exactly are HEMA helmets rated?

my friend is a trash can warrior, and made his own helmet and i am calling him a fucking idiot.

so to be half professional, i would like to see if it comes up to standard.

yes, i already called him retarded.

>>2033595
We use fencing masks, not helmets.

>>2033611
pardon me then

>>2033595
The ratings on fencing masks are actually to do with the Bib and not the mesh or mask itself. 350n and 800n. They're essential pierce limits for broken blades.

Fencing masks in general are already inadequate for competition intensity sparring but if his trash can helmet has plenty of padding especially around the sides and back of the head and nothing solid can pass through the mesh at the front it's probably acceptable to make for a laugh and then never use with any intensity.

>>2033643
1600N is the standard, and they work well enough for competition level sparring.

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So my new buckler arrived shortly after my new Regenyei I.33 sword
Branching out from my usual Fiore

>>2033224
This is not a stupid question but unfortunately I can't help you, I don't do messer but I'd love to.

>>2033224
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxndXtQS178&list=PL5HuW43hOK8UlIfou4UEPnSfw4TxxFL_9&index=10
Can't comment on authenticity, I don't do a lot of Messer, but it is compliant with the source and similar techniques exist in modern fencing.

>>2034304
it's a very good video, thanks, although I'm still not sure. It has a little more wrist movement that I'm comfortable with and simply I feel it's still missing something if the opponent is at least a little competent

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>>2031502
>... switch from one point up guard to another...
I'm afraid I'm not following you... Do you drop your hand/arm to stop it? Or do you mean that a standard attack over the wrist/forearm is guarded with a simple inside/outside guard?

Anyway, Half Circle Guard is highly effective from stopping undercuts to the wrist.

You have to remember that a BASKETHILT system is different to a SABRE system. In a word MOMENTUM.

>>2034263
Did you take this at night?

>>2035251
>I feel it's still missing something if the opponent is at least a little competent
If you're talking about the Winker then you're right, its only used against opponents who fence against the blade.

>>2035522
nope the geferhau, but there is always the options that I suck at it.

One of only six threads about a sport rather than wrestling.

It's an honour.

>>2018589
>European Martial Arts
uh, cultural appropriation much?

>>2037620
?

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Looking for a a fencing mask for feder, Meyer.
I'm in europe and a total beginner, what should I get?

>>2037800
Uhlmann or Allstar 1600N epee mask, and a PBT or Allstar back of the head protector. Thats for most of Europe, if you are on some foggy little island of the coast of France you might want to look into Leon Paul.

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>>2037805
Kek, thanks.
When I use the ones at my club they hurt my Adam's apple is that normal?

>>2037807
No, hurting your adams apple is normally what the Gorget is for.

>>2037807
>a worthy son of France

>>2037620
Well, I'm european

>>2037807
France being classy as usual

>>2037346
sadly this, why has /asp/ become /wrestling/?

>>2037620
don't worry, I'm european in an european club and we don't allow non-europeans or non-christians

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>>2032879
Thanks, that totally answered my question.

On a related note, after some research and listening to /his/ rant on, turns out medieval battles were a lot more tame than they're usually depicted, seeing as hitting each other with swords is dangerous and (surprise surprise) most knights didn't want to to get hurt or killed. That being said, there are quite a few figures throughout medieval history who have wracked up a very impressive kill count (William Marshal, Emperor Otto IV, ect). If battles are much more random, tame and rely much less on skill than I thought, how were guys like that so successful? Pure luck?
Forgive me if I'm getting something wrong from a historical standpoint, I didn't go super in depth with my Wiki-fu.

>>2038067
Equipment had probably a big part in this. if you're rich and can afford a high quality custom-made full suit of armor, you have a lot better chances of survival, therefore having a sick KDR.

>>2038081
Wouldn't it be debilitating still though? Even with thick armor, wouldn't a peice of metal being swung into you still break bones at least? That would make sense though, both of the people I listed were nobles.

>>2038067
As some greek historian I can't remember said, in battle, there is three types of people: a vast majority who don't really know what they are doing there and try to survive, a small minority who don't know better and won't survive and a same size minority who really know what to do, will do it and will cause most of what the battle will be about. Most of the times, it's a small fraction of particularly trained persons, who are veterans of several battles or at least of large fightings, that will do the most damage and the more they go, the more they ramp up their streak. At this point, either they run into a similar person and one of them or the two dies, or they get unlucky, swarmed and die.

Battles are only random to people who haven't experienced much, and since they were very few of it, people whose life were focused on fighting and all could easily have a tremendous edge against those that would only fight in defensive actions for instance. Battles weren't tame, it's just that it's not that easy to kill someone and most of the time, they run away before you can kill them, but it's ok because it's what a battle is all about anyway! And among the fighters, you'll have a selected few who really know what to do and when to do it. No one wants to get hurt or killed, not just knights, you'll still always have people that will just go for you like they don't care. Certainly, being a rich bastard that can afford top equipment and a great training is a solid way to go. Some people just feel at home in a battle, they are able to put everything aside, even their fear of death (it's the same thing as the whole samurai motto of "you must wake up as if you were already dead") and if those have great gear and training... it'll take quite some efforts to bring them down while they won't do much killing people left and right. It's always part luck (see Angelo Viggiani about this), but also skill, training and mostly experience.

>>2038067
Also Condottieri and such got the reputation for fighting bloodless battles but that's only because they didn't give a shit about the no-name plebs who may have been involved and the what was written at the time is basically moaning that no-one important got killed, except that one guy who fell off his horse and drowned.

>>2032879
Also thanks from me for the Pistofilo/Girard/Pascha hint, exactly what I'm looking for.

On a side note, I bought today a German (Swiss?) early 17th century Felddegen in nice condition. I payed equivalent of $1000. How excessive am I?
>yes, all I wanted for Christmas

>>2038067
>>2038126
Bones can be set back, also we have many many accounts of people fighting after being dealt what should be killing blows and who'll just kept on going and not dying even afterwards.
Besides, it's just not that easy to kill a determined individual that is trained for the gig and who is sporting a full set of armor. Thick armor, purposedly is supposed to protect you for even solid blows, at least once or twice...

Besides, about all this "super soldiers" thing, this exist every where at any time. Even in our times there are stories of people getting killed by tripping or dying on the spot after a single bullet wound, or some that just won't be able to even shoot at the enemy... and then you have people like Audie Murphy. Battle is just unfair and not everyone is equal about it, but gear, training and experience can set you a long forward.

>>2038003
4chan has a tendency to be dominated by the lowest common denominator of a particular interest. For us, it's professional wrestling. For /fit/, it's manlet and feels threads.

>>2038140
>>2038158
Both of these are grear answers, but I'm confused as to what you mean by experience. People fighting in multiple battles apparently was exceedingly rare, fighting in two battles or so made you a veteran of sorts. Apparently anything past basic guards, cuts, and footwork is superficial, made solely for dueling and not mass combat. How did they train for that type of combat? Is it just a "you have to do it to understand it" sort of thing?

>>2038225
Big battles are only a fraction of a warrior's life, but then it also depends on what era he was in. Soldiers of the italian wars could have fought many battles, not just a couple of them. But even without battles, you'll always have smaller actions, "skirmishes" (who could still involve hundreds of people which is by no means a brawl) and this also builds experience. Then the dedicated people will also fight "friendly duels" in peace time, and those could be quite serious though not to the bitter end.

Mass combat is mostly a discipline affair because you don't have time to teach all of your soldiers individually, so it will be drills mostly. Paired exercises were in use at least in the late 18th century, it's not crazy to think that soldiers would train in their time off but I don't think that the armies of the medieval and early modern period were taking into consideration how to train their members: they came with arms and whatever training they could buy or develop and that's about it. They will be trained in the basics of the weapon they carry, will probably have done some athletic stuff to get in shape. You learn by talking and getting advices from your older comrades for instance.

Also, it's wrong to think that basic guards, cuts and footwork are "little training", if done correctly, you can build strong martial sense out of little elements. Just like fundamentals always being the most important things there is, you don't "need "to ingrain special techniques into soldiers, drills of basic techniques should be more than enough.
Esoteric techniques aren't even needed for duelling, but if you want to have an elaborate art that sells and grants prestige, you'll certainly have to go further than "quarta to prima by roverso and then imbroccata". If you pay a master, it's because he can teach you stuff beyond basics, because he has insights you'll get only after years of basics, because he had time to think about the counter of the counter...

>>2038268
Thanks Anon, that answers my question.

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>>2038287
Different anon, but I also think the following info is important:

Up until the late Medieval and Renaissance period, any battle or skirmish was going to be fought entirely by knights and other professional soldiers, with exceptions of course. These were men who came from families that owed their loyalty to a baron, count, or some other high-ranking noble family that could afford to pay and protect them. The knights from these families were typically trained from childhood to be a soldier for their vassal, and in that regard were highly skilled compared to the average man of the day.

In turn, if a knight owned some land himself, he typically had a few lower-ranking or non-noble families who lived on it and owed him loyalty. From these families is where men-at-arms usually come from, and were basically part-time soldiers, who farmed during the week and bro'd it up with their knight on the weekends.

But no matter what your social power, you had to provide your own equipment, because there was no such thing as a national army back then, or even the concept of a "nation." So whatever your peasants owe you monthly or weekly in crops, you had those either sold at markets for money or traded them for arms, armor, equipment, and horses.

All this is to say that when you think of a knight of the time period, essentially their whole lives revolve around fighting, and those skills were taught to them by their father or fightmaster after THEY had fought their whole lives. So there's nothing systematic about it that you can point to and say, "Ah, here are the skills a knight of the time period would know," it's more of just a given for the life they were born into, and the training one knight from one family went through could be totally different from another knight from from another family who serves the same lord.

>>2018589
Non-Hema guy here,

Ive been reading about the different guards but I couldn't find any good examples on youtube of
Nebenhut or "side guard" being used in long sword tournaments of sparring.

Is it not/rarely used? and why?

>>2038863
Hard to say. I use it pretty frequently, but I think since there are only a couple plays from it in manuals, and the sword is held behind you, most dudes are too hesitant to use it.

>>2038863

I'm in the same boat as >>2038870
I like to use it, but often my sparring partner doesn't have leg protection, and I don't know if the guy is wearing a cup, so my unterhaus have once or twice came close to nutting someone. Once, I managed to stop just as I tapped some guy in the nuts. He was not wearing a cup.

As far as tournaments, it could be a lot of things. People not practicing low guards and unterhaus will likely not randomly try it out during a tournament that's being filmed. There's also a habit of people staying in only Plow or Vom Tag during tournaments, which can be a vicious cycle if no one else mixes it up.

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>>2018589
>http://www.hroarr.com/

so i guess this means im not welcome?

>>2038936
Yeah you can certainly throw Unterhau's from it, but I've found it's much more useful if you use it sort of like like Iron Door. So when your opponent throws a cut or thrust, you bring it around from behind you and beat their sword with your flat or throw a Krumphau, and then counter from there.

Also, throwing an Oberhau from Nebenhut is surprisingly effective if you maintain proper measure.

>>2039029
No, Fuck off, we're full!
>no fucking idea what your problem is

>>2039029
>>2037620
Anyone care to explain what this shit is about? Something only American cunts understand?

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>ordered a montante, a longsword and an arming sword to blackfencer
>do Fiore and I.33 in my local association (synthetics only since we aren't a club)
>want to learn the memorial of the practice of the montante and spadone techniques on my own.
Did I fuck up?

>>2039448
Montante is not exactly a beginners weapon.

>>2039458
I know that. What is a beginner weapon anyway?

>>2039483
You can go for longsword or I.33 but not both at the same time. And having a qualified teacher helps a lot with getting it right instead of unknowingly doing some folk dancing.

>>2039495
>60 kilometres for the closest club with a certified teacher
We do one session of I.33 every three to four months, it's Fiore all year otherwise.

>>2039520
Can't you ask a guy from that school to come over every week and give you a lesson for starters? Most guys will do that for gas money and a hot meal as long as provide a fencing hall.

>>2039566
Let's say I forgot a one on that previous distance, (that club is basically the same as us, there is one with a recognized instructor a 100kms further). I checked and we have 40 people with an hema instructor status in 18 clubs for the whole country.
The official federation is pretty young in baguetteland.

>>2035503
No, why do you ask?

>>2038841
>because there was no such thing as ... the concept of a "nation."

Wrong.

>>2039104
>No, Fuck off, we're full!
'Straya!
>>2039108
A valid thought exercise to create better understanding of others and have reasoned discourse that got hijacked in to the screeching victim Olympics where everything you say is wrong because "muh... we was... kidding... wife's son...".

I don't even try to bother having discussions with them anymore, in fact I act inflammatory and front-up the nu-"males" then com on their oneitis' face later that week.

I'm sick of being told that my very existence is an affront to group "x".

Feels good laughing in the their entitled-bubble, deluded, weak faces as they scramble to use ANY argument that ISN'T a phallus whiles also now being justified and REWARDED for breaking the fingers and forearms of /pol/acks with weapons because you challenged their """pride""" and they called one of your classmates a nagger.

:^)

>>2039771
>people with hema instructor status

How in the duck? How do you achieve that? I've ducking published two books, four articles, travel in my cuntry to teach, been doing it for eight years AND YET I NOT CONSIDERED AN ""INSTRUCTOR""?!

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>>2040663

>>2039771
Official?
I'd like to see what this "official federation" and these "official instructors" are all about.
Sounds fishy because even in nations where HEMA is well established, there isn't much in the way of that nonsense.

>>2040663
If you want to be a neo nazi, don't do it in a HEMA club. Or in any way that can effect HEMA. You can end the hobby if you do that. Most people who are into HEMA aren't neo nazis. And we don't want to be associated with them.

So if you're drinking the white power kool aid, have respect for your fellow HEMA practitioners and have respect for the arts we practice. Don't fuck it up for everyone just because you want a safe space.

If you could actually drop the racism, that'd be great. But you won't, and I won't try to convince you not to. But know that your racism is not welcome in the community, and we are going to make that known. You're welcome, as long as you can drop it and be a safe fighter.

You remember how the idiotic portions of the left gets it's tushy tustled if anything remotely white ever exists at times? Well, HEMA's a martial arts system which is originated in European culture groups. The revival of these martial traditions could easily be misinterpreted as a part of a racist movement, or an attempt by racists to "connect with their ancestors" or whatever other crazy crock of shit that some of the crazy WS groups do.

You want to be able to fight with swords, and to be socially acceptable and not thought of as a dangerous community of people training to kill in hand to hand combat. I know I don't want to be thought of as a dangerous element of society.

In the mean time, there are some people who are in the HEMA community, who are very vocal racists. Some are prominent, some hide behind anonymous accounts, some post on 4chan or reddit or tumblr. And in order to continue to do HEMA peacefully for the next thirty years, we need to promote ourselves as professional martial artists, sportsmen, and academics.

In order for HEMA to have legitimacy, we need to either eliminate bigots from the community, or the bigots need to respect the art, community, and people, and set that aside to practice.

>>2041031
The FAR community in that regard is a good thing. It makes it look like the HEMA community addresses these problems, and like it is a good place for anyone to come and practice with them.
I don't know about you, man. But I want as many people to hit with swords as possible. I was around for the time when there were very few fighters. And now that HEMA's growing in my country, I don't want to go back. I don't want to have to fight LARPers or other reenactment groups.

So for the fact that the FAR will make us look good, it's good to have them around.

And stop getting triggered at FAR buttons, shirts, and patches. If your feelings are hurt, just look for someone with a safety pin.

>>2040675
>>2040981
It's just a piece of paper saying you went to a class about safety for sparring/cutting and how to teach various HEMA ways of fighting. When you said qualified teacher I directly linked it to that, otherwise we have some guys that did HEMA before and have 4 or 5 years of study behind them.

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>>2041031
>The revival of these martial traditions could easily be misinterpreted as a part of a racist movement
HOW
O
W

>>2041533
Because Hema is essentially white culture and white people are not allowed to be proud of their heritage. I wish I was kidding but there are legit people who think this, which is why political agendas should not be brought into hobbies even if they seem reasonable like FAR.

Our club actually had some people who wanted similar anti-racism, pro-lgbt agendas. Thank god we just agreed on a rule of "no bullying regardless of reason, period".

>>2041601
nice. It's bad but it's a generation thing. The guys with the influence are in their 30s-40s now and are the most socially brainwashed generation in history. It'll pass.

I've never seen anyone under 30 sporting FAR merch or anything like that.

I'm not against it ofcourse I just think it's totally unnecessary.

Same with discussions about getting more women into HEMA. I remember a meeting sort of thing I was roped into where we all discussed Racism within HEMA and inclusiveness for girls. Both brought up by the two girls in a totally white room. HEMA's extremely inclusive and always has been it's not our fault white guys are the ones who show up.

I can however see why it was necessary in 2002 or something but HEMA has it's foundation now and doesn't need to prove shit.

>>2041533
It's rather easy.
>neo nazis latch onto HEMA because muh Europe
>people see neo nazis acting like neo nazis
>"wow HEMA is a group full of neo nazis."
>>2041601
White folks don't have a pan-white or pan-european culture to be proud of. We do however have our individual nation and culture groups to take pride in. HEMA is a part of that.

Non Scottish people can play bagpipes and toss cabers and have fun and celebrate Scottish culture and heritage. Scottish people can benefit from this by sharing their cultural heritage with other people and enjoying themselves.

It's the same with HEMA. We bring back dead swordsmanship, share it with the world, and in doing so we celebrate the history and culture of Europeans. More recently we've found American fencing masters to study from, and we incorporated that into the movement for convenience.

This is why HEMA's not a "white power" thing. This is why people don't want what we do associated in any way with neo nazis.

>>2041626
You would be wrong about the generational thing. Go to the Facebook group, and you see lots of people across many age groups.

And getting women and non-white folks into HEMA is important. You are right that we don't intentionally discriminate against other people. As a matter of fact, with FAR and Esfinges, we try to make it known that women, trans/queer, and people of any ethnicity are welcome.
But only white dudes show up. For a few reasons.

One is the cultural connection. White people get more interested in European history than other people, on average. That's fine. HEMA is mostly practiced in countries with lots of white people. That means lots of white people will do HEMA. That's fine as well.

But then it starts to feed itself. If the perception is that only white dudes do HEMA, then only white dudes will do it.

>>2041844
That's why FAR is necessary, and why Esfinges does a whole heck of a lot of good for the community. Once we completely remove any social barriers to joining HEMA, we'll start to see classes look like your local Dojos. Where anyone is welcome, everyone fights, everyone respects, and there is less need for social politics.

And the post above said we should keep politics out. That's flawed because everything you do is political in a democratic society. If you don't want to be political, move to a totalitarian nation.

>>2041844
>One is the cultural connection. White people get more interested in European history than other people, on average. That's fine. HEMA is mostly practiced in countries with lots of white people. That means lots of white people will do HEMA. That's fine as well.

This just comes off as complete overthinking to me. Of all the martial arts I've ever practiced. Kung Fu, Ju Jitsu, FMA. It's always the same crowd. Not as many beards and ponytails as HEMA but it's nerdy white dudes and all of them had about the same percentage of girls showing up to class. In fact now I come to think of it my HEMA club is the only one I can remember having nonwhite members.

By far the most popular with with women in my experience is Kickboxing and MMA. The more masculine something is the more girls want to do it there's no need to pander to them.


The draw of HEMA is swords. Bottom line. Sometimes girls like swords but by and large they don't.

I'd say 70% of beginners I've trained with wouldn't have given half a shit if it was from another culture (well it is but another racial culture) it was just swordfighting to them.

We get less women showing up because it takes quite a bit of courage to show up to a random club night and introduce yourself. Any martial arts club I've been in has had female numbers explode when we offered womens only or at least dedicated beginners program nights. HEMA clubs in 90% of the cases can't have that luxury. I'm not saying girls don't have that courage some do but they're a rarer breed.

Guess I leave this political correctness to the Anglos, because no one really cares elsewhere.

>>2041844
Then why not just the thing >>2041601 mentioned about "no bullying, period".

I've seen this kind of thing go to shit far too many times to not be hesitant about anything claiming to root out "neo-nazis".

>>2041925
That's a nice general rule. At face value it works. But when someone shows up with a shirt that has WS imagery on it, they're told to leave. Keep your skinhead tattoos covered and don't be a shitty human being. The first post in this chain said a /pol/ack got his fingers broken after calling someone a nigger. He honestly should have been thrown out of the club. If he did that at my local group, we'd have kicked him out on the spot.
>>2041873
Do you also live in an area of your country with a high white population?
At high levels of MMA, we see people come from around the world, with every colour of skin. From cauliflower white to black dark roast.
At high levels of HEMA, we see colour range from cauliflower to light beige.
I noted above that HEMA's mostly practiced in predominately white areas. Branching out to other places, and opening our classes to every community will give us many more fighters to train with.
And more fighters will always mean our training will get better.

Just don't be fukken /pol/ in a HEMA class. That's all anyone who isn't /pol/ wants. Keep it on your designated board.

>>2041951
Having "WS" imagery on shit is bullying though, it's saying bad things about other people for the purpose of being mean. The no bullying is all you need.

I've been to the FAR facebook page. It's an arse-load of multiculturalism stuff that (mostly) has fuck-all to do with HEMA and is very politically charged. It looks so much like every other intersectional-social justice movement latching onto something like a parasite. Not to mention the pushing of the "pre-modern Europe was so multicultural" line. I've seen this shit happen before where I live, and it does not have a good end. Doing it only antagonizes your /pol/ bogeyman.

Simple rules, no bullying, no discrimination.
You don't need an political organization to achieve that.

>>2041879
seconded, some people blowing a no-issue out of proportion to make themselves interesting.

>>2041964
100%.

>>2041031
>But know that your racism is not welcome in the community

Hold the fuck up buddy, I'm part of the community and I don't recall asking you to speak for me

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First time I went to my class I got to hit an Indian woman. HEMA's brilliant.

>>2041031
>You remember how the idiotic portions of the left gets it's tushy tustled if anything remotely white ever exists at times? Well, HEMA's a martial arts system which is originated in European culture groups. The revival of these martial traditions could easily be misinterpreted as a part of a racist movement

So lets accommodate the whacko social justice folks needs because we're intimidated by their need to sperg out and lie about people. What a great plan.

Also does this mean my local dojang needs to start a "kendoka against Korean nationalism" group? I mean, there are far-right Japanese groups who might get their tushies tustled, so we should make sure we bend over backwards for their needs.

What is everyone's opinion of the Thokk WeaponMaster gauntlets (not to be confused with the Neyman Thokk gloves)?

They didn't have a lot of information on them when the campaign went out, but there seems to have been more information added as the campaign's gone on.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/thokk-weaponmaster-gauntlets#/

>>2041626
>it's not our fault white guys are the ones who show up.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME! IT'S COMPLETELY YOUR FAULT AND YOU SHOULD FIX IT FOR ME SO I CAN TALK ABOUT HOW WHATEVER YOU DO IS NEVER ENOUGH DESPITE IT BEING OUTSIDE OF YOUR CONTROL!
WHY AREN'T YOU APOLOGISING TO MEEEEEEEEE!

>>2041854
>we'll start to see classes look like your local Dojos
pls no
>>2041873
>my HEMA club is the only one I can remember having nonwhite members.
We have a Polish guy, does that count?
>>2041951
>black dark roast.
My coffee and women.
>>2041964
>seconded, some people blowing a no-issue out of proportion to make themselves interesting.
How else are they meant to be even a slightly bit interesting? What? Actually DO HEMA for FUN?
>>2042248
Wrong board bub.
>>2043373
Worst """marketing""" I have ever seen.
If you put that much effort in to a product and then film shit on your phone, don't be surprised when you fail to reach your goals.

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Enough about stupid bullshit that doesn't matter and no one cares about; here's a guy with a bleeding head wound.

>>2044636
While it kinda is cool that these guys have done sparring with sharp swords, I can't help but feel some cringe about it.

Like it would be a lot more cool if it was some drunk slavs on their backyard hurting eachother but the fact that experienced martial artists disregard sword safety for shock value feels irresponsible and cringy.

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What do you think about double hits? Are they ok or not? If not, how do you train to avoid them? What rules would you like in a tournament to prevent and/or punish double hits?

>>2045475
>What rules would you like in a tournament to prevent and/or punish double hits?
There's a new rule in the austrian rule set, when there are more double hits than scoring hits by the 'winner' then both fencers lose.
It's not perfect I guess but it penalizes double hits in a pretty cool way.

>>2045475
>Satan: Well boys, now it looks like you have something else in common: You're both dead. Hahaha but seriously come on, let's go.

>>2045497
Makes sense to me: If both of you are sloppy enough to take as many hits as you dish out, then you both would have died.

>>2031464
>From a purely hypothetical standpoint, how useful is formal sword combat training in an actual mass battle? Could any of these guards and stances be applied in combat, or are they all useless against an army?
Military sabre is as the name implies designed specifically for use in such circumstances. This is one reason that infantry sabre doesn't have much sideways movement despite such being very useful in a one-on-one situation. You can't have soldiers doing that when ranked.

>>2045530
>You can't have soldiers doing that when ranked.
>still believes in the ranked battle meme
>doesn't know about Kleinkrieg, Fehde or just the usual drunk brawl.

Are there any hema-friends who own actual armor?

What period is it? Pics are appeciated.

Non-armor owners, what's your favorite period of armor?

>>2046023
I do reenactment alongside hema, I don't own an armor yet but I plan to buy one over the course of the next year. It will probably be between 1370/1410 since that's the period we reenact though.

>>2046023
I'm reading up on Allan Williams "The Knight and the Blast Furnace" and I have been given the opportunity to fingerfuck real period armour in private collections. I have a hardon for Austrian high Gothic armour, Lorenz Helmschmid and the likes.
What is mindblowing about the old pieces is the tapper and the hardening, like a good chest plate has 4mm+ on the central ridge and just 1mm at the sides. Also, they are real springy, lots of flex going on. and the outside is glass hard, files won't bite, but the inside is soft. No idea how they did the heat treatment back then for pieces this big.

>>2041844
>getting women and non-white folks into HEMA is important.
No it's not. It's not important to keep them out either. Whether an individual with a certain trait or set of traits chooses or does not choose to take up a hobby is spectacularly unimportant. I don't personally feel like I need to justify my hobbies by having them not be a sausage fest, either.

>>2041854
>That's flawed because everything you do is political in a democratic society.
This is inherently a left wing belief, you can't just state it as fact. Center and right wing politics both feel there is a sphere of privacy where party politics do not apply and are not welcome, they just disagree on the size of that sphere. Indeed, from outside the left, it's the leftist insistence that everything is subject to political regulation that's the totalitarian attitude.

>>2046856
Not that guy, but i think encouraging female participation is good.
Not for any moral reason, just purely from a growth perspective.

>>2046023
I'd love a set of Greenwich armour

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>>2047010
You're on an early-renaissance battlefield and this guy slaps your gfs ass...

>>2047017
Watch it, Sir Geroge Clifford!
>also early Renaissance, you're like 200 years off, but ok

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>>2047017
>what a hipster

>>2047035
Time of Shakespeare literally the measure of the start of the Ren in England

>>2047068
k'then, wasn't aware of that.

Is Austro Hungarian fencing manual anon there? I was wondering if I could help out at all.

>>2047068
>the start of the Ren in England

1485 is commonly used as the starting year for Renaissance in England.

>>2047094
>>2047075
>>2047068
>Debating semantics while Sir George Clifford is making away with your woman

There are non-white people that actually join HEMA groups?

What the fuck, are these like reverse weeaboos? Euroboos? LOTRboos?

>>2047833
If you get on the Facebook groups, you'll see some folks who aren't white and love HEMA. There's a group in Taiwan, one in China as well.
There are people who are now studying a Mamluk manual. Using the same principles we've established in the HEMA community.

Swords are cool. The kinds of swords you like in our time just come down to preference, interest in a time and place and aesthetics. And you may like the techniques that are used with a certain weapon.

But really, at the end of the day, swords are cool. And everyone should be swordfighting and fighting with any culture group's swords.

>>2048311
Ayo hol up
You tellin me
Taiwan isn't China?

>>2047075
It's a Tudor thing.

Why does the oakeshott XIV always have a wheel pommel and (almost) always a curved cross? All the other swords can have different pommels and crosses, but the XIV always havr the same.

>>2039448
That ligadura mezzana is all messed
I suppose that will occasionally happen in a fight

Cool art though

>>2046023
My instructor and several members of our club also do reenactment so some have several suits.
I'm looking into piecing together a decent set, starting with gauntlets since my Fechtschule Gdansk gloves aren't ideal imo.

>>2045475
>>2045504
Pls meme caption this

>stop at the "You're both dead", packs more punch.

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>itt: /int/ is leaking

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What are some good solo drills for Meyer and getting the basics down in general?

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>>2051983
>solo drills for Meyer
I'd say the Meyer square

>>2051990
do you have anything for a messer?

>>2052030
I'm doing Messer myself but haven't found anything good for solo drills yet.
I guess anything that works for longsword/smallsword/HBS/saber works in some kind of way for Messer too.

>>2052035
meh, I hoped there is some kind messer specific stuff. Thanks anyway

>>2052030
>>2052035
>>2052041
Check the Agilitas TV DVD on Messer, they have drills.

>>2052127
are those worth the price?
I mean is the content legit interpretations and such??

>>2052143
Yes, Kiermayer & Heim are like godfathers of the Lange Messer. DVD's are available in both German and English, and you can check the first part free at https://vimeo.com/ondemand/langesmesser1/

Part " should be released soon.

>>2052232
I read that as some cheesy infomercial.

>>2052232
I'm more interested on their lecküchner video

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>>2037805
So is this one HEMA approved?
www.allstar.de/shop/product_info.php?info=550000035.html

>>2052245
Good for you, don't buy it then.
>>2052256
Well thats the Lecküchner one, you blind fuck.
>>2052274
Yes.

>>2051983
It would take forever to move all of those fruits like that.

Hey, tried to spar a bit after some time, but got fucked over. One of the big reason was that I was too strong in my parry, and that I moved my body before my arm, both of those making me vulnerable to feint, that the opponent used and reused.

I try to fix that, but I need to get my footwork proper again. Where can I see some tutorial for these ? Also, is there one for the feint footwork ?

>>2053375
>moved my body before my arm

This is a problem when attacking, but why is it bad on defense? Stepping back gives you more time to use the correct guard.

>debunkinghistoriceuropeanmartialarts.weebly
Somebody explain.

>>2053375
you sure you do not just turn your body too much when you parry in the first place, putting a big target sighn on your arm and shoulder?

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>>2052897
And I'd be able to watch it forever.

>>2055110
Autism combined with a failure to understand historiography and a delusion that the world will care what that site has to say.

>>2055142
It may be a reason, but the thing is that I got a new sword, very light, 1kg300, and expected to get easily overpowered by the other, so first all my counter were strong.
He began to move and began a zornhau, but as I moved before sending mine, the guy had time to move, because I moved on guard rather than attacking directly, when I send my sword to meet his, he had nothing to risk to just refuse contact, sidestep and fuck me up.

Afterward, he hurt my arm, and I did even more on panic strike aimed at the sword rather than the guy, and got feinted to death.

The thing is that his "sidestep in the middle of a move on the opposite direction" surprise me, and I want to be able to do them myself.

>>2053768
Well, it was more in a "move forward to punch the other sword out of the way, but guess what, his sword isn't here anymore, and the guy stepped out of the way"

I've been studying Meyer now for 4 years through my club and self studied Silver in my spare time for a year and a half now and I've had an interest in Febris as of late and want to dig in over the next month. Is there any prereading that I should get into before jumping straight in, anything to help be get a better grasp would be greatly appreciated

>>2056221
Fabris? Well do you have any background in rapier, or even just sport fencing? If not, it might be worth looking at someone like Giganti or Capo Ferro first; I've heard that they're a bit better about laying out some of the basics.

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What do you guys think of Paul the bloody wanker and his hema armor videos? I find them interesting points made, a lot of them pointed out the fact that he's showing his armpits pretty well in the videos with the armor he demonstrates, but it seems like he's wearing sharkmail? So I didn't understand that one.

I'm looking for some body armor that is practical and i don't really care if I look like a "larping faggot". Can anyone tell me why I would buy a SPECS jacket whatever over what he proposes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYv7_ox-FLQ

Also I'm looking for some shin/glove protection and red dragon looked half decent but I'm not really sure.

>>2057190
Red dragon shin protections are okay. They tend to slip down a lot though, they are better for manlets.

>>2057236

What would you recommend for non manlets friend

>>2057249
I only own the Red Dragons, I think something like Baseball protections with an integrated top of the foot protection would be great since they wouldn't be able to slip down. But they have their own weakpoints, like the side of the knee.
Something a bit like those red protections with better side protection: https://youtu.be/Q5vzi_Zaf1s?t=2m34s

>>2057190
Where from?

>>2057990

Not sure, do you have any suggestions?

>>2057347

Might pick up the gloves then at least, they seem to provide pretty good protection.

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>>2056543
Can confirm Giganti's pedagogy.

Although I have ordered a copy of Fabris just because I want to check out some of his guard positions and how to break them.

I am sick of being stabbed in the nuts by Fabri-fags.

>I'm a Swetnam/Cavendish/Saviolo-fag.
>good luck finding my blades m8s

>>2056087
>1.3kg
>very light
Are you high? That's well into midrange, touching on heavy.

>>2058719
No, where are you from, it usually is relevant to what suppliers and gear you have access to...

>>2058724
>largely uses withdrawn guards
>surprised to get constant nut shots from lunge fighters

Dude if you retract your sword like that just to avoid getting stretto, you're pretty much begging to get ballstabbed. There are no shortcuts, you have to git gud in the point play in misura larga.

>>2058738

Oh, yeah. Of course, my bad. I'm from Australia.

>>2058751
SPES Jackets are tournament tested, mass used and evolved over different models, they became the most used jacket for a reason, because they work well.

For the Shins, common protectors are hockey shin guards like red dragon, or then a combo of land hockey shin protectors and Knee pro ultra flex knee protectors.
Red dragon gloves are not fit for steel longsword or other heavy stuff.

>>2058772

That's okay, for now I'm a strict Silver learner so that won't be much of an issue. Maybe once I get proficent with Silver I'll move onto something else.

>>2058751
>>2058772

Also, what SPECS jacket would you recommend, what is everyone using these days? >>2058799

>>2058806
Its SPES, and most use the Axel Peterson standard jacket. Depending on a variety of factors you add parts to that, like arm guards or a plastron, a gorget and so on.
Alternatively you can buy jackes form Leon Paul which has a colaboration going with SPES. Maybe they are easier to get in Australia because of Commonwealth? Dunno.

>>2058815
>Depending on a variety of factors you add parts to that, like arm guards or a plastron, a gorget and so on.
For real: gorgets are not in any way optional. You have to wear SOME kind of throat protection, omitting the gorget is probably THE most dangerous thing you can do after just not wearing a mask. For nylon sparring I'd allow beginners to skip the jacket if they wanted, but not the gorget. For steel -- fuck off if you think you can do that without a hard throat protector.

Letting people spar without gorgets frankly is not a serious attitude.

>>2058848
If you are doing small sword, it is optional.

>>2058727
For a feder? I don't know what you're used to, but that's definitely on the lighter end of what I usually see.

>>2018589
/k/ needs some help.
>>>/k/32362181

>>2058848
>wants to buy a gorget
>waiting for the Darth Vader one to be released
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59AmASnUZDg

This might be the most embarrassing thread on 4chan right now.

Kill yourself All, soon

>>2059630
>wrasslefag belittles
It's not very effective.

>someone gifted me a translated Opera Nova by Manciolino
>start glossing over the text to see what it's about
>sword and buckler all day long
>suddenly dual wielding swords because the author finds that it looks pretty
Are there examples of dual wielding in non bolognese fencing?

>>2044043
>My coffee and women.
Ground up and in the freezer?

Will people get mad at me if i make use of my boxing and MT training?

>>2059985
In HEMA?
I had a guy doing broadsword who constantly used his BJJ skills. It didn't work very well, and interfered with what was supposed to be learned.
You're learning HEMA, this isn't MMA.
It's a reconstruction of historical combat techniques and practices.

>>2047043
hey.. maybe we're related

>>2059630
Ok :)

>>2059985
Just as much as people learning a martial art when you come and want to use other stuff.
It's interesting, there can be some nice sparring, but the club wants to learn HEMA and will eventually get mad if you start fucking up the training.

>>2059985
You will probably use it by mistake during exercises, so people will be pretty patient if you tell them that you have a background in other martial arts and it's just a reflex.
Anything is fine in free sparring.

>>2061037
>anything is fine in free sparring
Dunno how I feel about this.

>>2058727
The fuck ? For a steel feder, never saw something lighter than that.

>>2061161
obviously you weren't looking hard enough

>>2061161
Seconded 1300g is very light, likely an Albion Meyer or something.
>>2061235
Thanks for shitposting

>>2061452
>1300g is very light
Really? I think I have to weight my Feder, I don't think it's any heavier than 1,3kg

>>2059803
Di Grassi and Agrippa have it as well though it's fairly minimal (as much as the Bolognese though iirc).
There are the two florentinese masters Piermarco Terminiello talked about in his paper on double swords duelling but I can't remember the actual names.
Then there are some hearsay like Palladini (only one manuscript found and likely to be) and the lost double swords play Jehan Lhermite talked about (bastard could remember the 12 montante rules but not the double swords ones...).

You could just go have a look at wiktenauer and middleages.hu if you want to look at anything pre-17th century.

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>>2058746
>Dude if you retract your sword like that just to avoid getting stretto, you're pretty much begging to get ballstabbed.
Perhaps. I have found it better against my country's most common weapon preference (backsword) though.
It's also glorious denying the "Dominaters" who try to touch their disgusting 115cm rapier against my glorious 130cm.

>There are no shortcuts, you have to git gud in the point play in misura larga.
Yup. Thus getting in to Giganti.

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>>2061452
It's a Kovex. nearly all his others swords are jiri kondrak tier of heavy and made for behurt, but this one is light and resistant. but the crossguard is taking nicks, and not as large as I hoped.

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>>2065826
The blurred photo was the only one with the full length. Remember that this rawling has a extended pommel. It's 125 cm.

Also, why the fuck the pic was turned ?

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>>2065832
Since we're all comparing and all...

Grip tape on the blade for synthetic wasters? Yes or no?

>>2066621
Yes.

>>2065912
Nice broadsword, blunt?

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>>2066651
Armour Class. Sharp.
Gotta re-do the liner.

>>2065912
>>2067810
Is that a bunch of rapier furniture just lying around on your shelf for some reason? I have a hard time making sense of this picture, purely visually that is. Also, how do you fight if you're in a wheelchair?

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>>2067810
Just bought this one.

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Specs:
- Danelli blade (120cm tip to tang).
- Hollow ground.
- Thrust centric but surprisingly cuts with authority.
- Darkwood Armory's Economy Ring Hilt in munitions finish.
- Custom grip for my baby hands.
- Temporary epee pommel until a nicer one arrives.
- POB: 5cm from foremost guard ring.
- POP: 15cm from point.
- Total weight: 1.3kg.

Thinking of getting a "transitional" blade at a 130cm and mounting it on an English "Cup hilt" from Armourclass.

>>2065912
What kind of stick stick is that?

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>>2067861
An antique Walloon?
Very nice.
I prefer a broader, heavier cutter (the AC is well balanced) for early or "Clan Era" broadsword. Currently putting together a lighter one for later Regimental styles.

>this dagger does have a side ring, but it's used to mount it to the wall.

>>2067910
Yes, 1712 Swiss dragoon sword or Felddegen, but not 100% sure as it is not standardaized and likely lower officer rank It has a blade on the light side, but it is surprisingly commanding in the strike, the thumb ring helps quite a bit with that. Also, very nice point control.
>they don't make em like that anymore

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>>2067897
>What kind of stick stick is that?
????
If you mean the black thing it's an Unbreakable Umbrella [tm].

Here are my actual sticks (pic related).

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>>2067996
Waiting for this one, Brandistocco, like a cane sword, just a pole arm.
>blade only semi retracted in this pic

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>>2067853
>Is that a bunch of rapier furniture just lying around on your shelf for some reason?
Yep.
>Also, how do you fight if you're in a wheelchair?
How does my brother fight in his wheelchair? Three ways:
1) Stands his ground and uses blade work (basically cavalry sabre or destreza).
2) Spins chair using off hand or "charges" by using both then the momentum as he switches to sword. Also rolls down slopes.
3) Has someone push him. Then it basically turn in to a jousting match between him and his classmate who's in a wheelchair as well (she did Paralympic foil).

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>>2068087
>>2068094
>polearm
The best kind of walking stick.

>>2068156
>How does my brother fight in his wheelchair? Three ways
That's impressive as hell. Saluto!

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>>2067867
10/10 brass and steel contrast.
>>2068213
Thanks mate, we try.

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Tell me anon, what is the most visually pleasing technique according to you?

>>2070353
Technically speaking what most audiences likes the most where swords do full circle motions or anything where the sword does fast (but not too fast) non-linear motions.
Changes in the movement lines are always something that looks great.
Montante techniques are usually visually pleasing for most people

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>>2070429
I may be the only one finding grappling and disarms better looking than Montante and fancy sword moves, don't get me wrong montantes and the techniques for them are cool but I haven't seen yet an example of mastery that made my jaw drop.

>>2070353
The I.33 durchtritt has a fascination flow, to me

>>2070460
well most of the montante stuff is just basic drills and meant to use as a crowd control thing against multiple opponents. I also like the grappling and disarming moves with other weapons but I think most people like to see "complex" sword moves which they can still follow a little

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>>2070470
The eleventh composed rule from Figuereido would look great on screen and it's still easy to follow.

A clubmate let me try on his SPES arm guards for some sparring. They're terrible. They slide upwards and really restrict wrist movement. While wearing the SPES AP jacket.

I'd rather not wait nine months for Neyman to make and ship forearm guards.

What are Anon's thoughts on forming kydex to make under-jacket forearm guards?

What about using those thick leather bracers/vambraces for under-jacket forearm guards?

>>2070868
The newer SPES guards are shit, the old ones where ok, putting the straps crosswise made them almost secure, sewing on an elastic strap made them great.
FSA arm guards work, making kydex guards works great. sewing leather braces works great. In all cases make sure that your elbow is covered, also from the sides.

If you are into sewing and leather, check the Broni armguards: http://www.akademia-broni.pl/submenu-24,protektory.html

>>2070524
Speaking of the big sword, it would seem I can't find the Oakshotte translation for the montante.
http://oakeshott.org/Figueiredo_Montante_Translation_Myers_and_Hick.pdf

Does anyone have any good /hema/ wallpapers? Or even just high resolution images that could be used as such, especially images from manuscripts?

>>2071133
montante come into exisdternce after the oakshotte typology. oakshottes types cover medieval swords

>>2072552
When I said Oakshotte, I'm referring to the Oakshotte Institute's translation of the memorial on the practices of the montante. Gotta read the links before making assumptions.

>>2071133
>https://mega.nz/#!vpJw2LjY!a3xnio9Gk3fM7cHE4VT3_jihufp91Y7EOBeAGqJrY54
Downloaded it a while ago, maybe a new version will go out soon. Have a go at it, I'll delete it in 24 hours.

>>2073871
Based anon, thanks mate.

What were the worst injuries you guys got from HEMA?

>>2076470
There's a guy in my club who broke the hand of an opponent during a tournament with synthetics.

>>2076470
Busted finger joint a few years ago, have lost quite a few degrees of movement in said finger

I bet you're all KV here

>>2076844
As opposed to everyone else on this Puerto Rican fingerpainting message board?

>>2076844
>KV
Not a native speaker, what is that?
Killer Vibes?
King-sized Vibrators?

>>2077952
Kissless Virgin

>>2078074
oh thanks!

>>2076844
>I bet you're all KV here
I'm not, so checkmate atheists!
Christians: 1
Atheists: 0

>>2078077
Haha good for you :)

>>2078080
thank you my friend :)

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>>2076470
A swollen finger was the worst I had yet but since I'm doing more and more sparring I expect something worse soon.
Thinking about getting the spes lobster gloves, are they good?

>>2076470
Thumb broken twice, broken sternum, blow out fracture of the eye.

>>2078313
How the fuck did you get those where wearing gear?

>>2078343
>me in ye olden days
>little finger was broken and halfway ripped off wearing lacrosse gloves
>buy early model sparring gloves
>thumb gets broken this time
>reinforce thumb area, everything fine since
>fight friendly with montante guy, forget to put plastron on.
>catch a thrust with the sternum, yes, its fucking broken
>do a half tempo dagger demo with buddy
>he gets overenthusiastic, right in the eye

wear your safety gear, hard learned lesson from before real gear became a thing.

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>>2076844
What's wrong with that anyway?

How many of you practice italian longsword as your primary training method? Seems like everyone here is a german longsword practitioner.

>>2078086
I just got a pair. The only weak point is the base of the wrist. You shouldn't be getting hit there anyway.

>>2079058
Italian longsword here, among other things.

>>2079058
Fiore as a primary training method, it's just that the german tradition seems to be the go to school for competitions.

>>2079407
Yeah why is that? I mean I realize eye gouging and kneeing people in the sack isn't really appropriate for a tournament...is Fiore just not applicable to the more 'gentlemanly,' tournaments?

>>2079446
Don't forget about the breaking the knees part. Fiore is about self defence against a peasant trying to kill you, Meyer seems to be a bit more about friendly training and sparring if you only look at the illustrations.

>>2079446
There are fewer Italian schools for the Longsword. Fewer Italian schools means fewer people at tournaments.
Among those who practice Italian stuff, there also seems to be less enthusiasm for tournaments.

Those Italian schools which are enthusiastic point to Fiore's bridges to German tradition and borrow from it to give them more options in the long distance plays. But they're not truly "Italian".

Personally, I think this "German v Italian" Longsword dichotomy is rubbish. There are lots of similiarities, the HRE had lots of movement between Germany and Italy, and separating them into distinct Longsword classes often hinders students with dogmatic thinking.

That said, the study group I teach ues Fiore as the basis. Then we expand out into Vadi for advanced students. For those who intend on going to tournaments, we have them study up on Liechtenauer and Mair.

You give them a body of knowledge to begin. Keep it clear, keep it concise. Then you introduce more new things. After they master the Longsword/grapple/dagger, encouraging them to do their own things helps keep them engaged.

The result is students that are overall competent, and which are well rounded fighters. That don't ignore their weaknesses. And when we have enough advanced students, we can become a proper school.

>>2079058
I study Fiore
I like some aspects of German longsword (mostly just the strikes), but I've been told by people that do both that the German practitioners shit themselves when you start trying to bind their arms and throw them about.

>>2076470
A bruised knuckle from my Fechtschule Gdansk gloves that don't seem to have been made too well for me despite them having my measurements.

General bruises on legs especially, and a swollen wrist from a good whack without gloves.

Bruised ribs from having a big guy land on my chest while sparring longsword and getting into a grapple and both of us slipping.

Nothing serious thus far.

>>2079613
>German practitioners shit themselves when you start trying to bind their arms and throw them about.
Which I find to be ridiculous, since Ringeck has like half his treatise dedicated to grapple plays but for some reason nobody practices them.

>>2079958
>>2079613
>but for some reason nobody practices them.
That's the key point I think. It's not that German systems lack wrestling. People just don't practice grappling for some reason.

>>2079958
>>2080135
The reason is because sword.
You got into HEMA because sword.
Your buddies got into HEMA because sword.
In reality, grappling is the fundamental step to master before you even pick up a sword. It's so completely essential to all hand to hand combat that not having wrestling under your belt is plain stupid.
But people in HEMA don't do it because sword.
And because grappling is hard.

>>2079461
>Fiore is about self defence against a peasant trying to kill you
Yeah, in medieval times every peasant had a longsword and maybe an armour too

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>>2080541
Fiore starts with grappling and dagger as foundation though, pretty applicable to self-defense in any environment.
Besides, there is some plays about "what to do when you sit / walk doing nothing in particular and somehow suddenly tries to stab you". And then the "peasant's strike" is said to work against forceful sword strikes but also large axes and staves.
Fiore's books seems to be a mixed bag of techniques for self-defense and regulated fighting really.

On the subject of peasant's attacks, Girard is still the best with his linked sausages-like flail wielding peasant.

>>2080261
and finding grappling suitable premises is harder.

I think grappling is pretty necessary to keep advanced students that aren't interested in competing keen. It's easily the best and most rewarding to learn parts.

>Grappling is an Fiore thing.
Hate these Fedora's seems like every Italian workshop I do they try to play up some imaginary rivalry between schools.

WEe don't teach teach grappling in our groups until advanced-beginner/early-intermediate.
Sort of like vetting people.Plus most novices/beginners are here for >>2080261

>>2080261
>>2080602
>started Hema for the swords
>comes back every week for the grappling
I suck at it but it's tons of fun to try to make it work.

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If you have any HEMA related webms or gifs.
>>>/wsg/1460753

>>2081397
You and me both, it's getting quite awkward as I'm finding swords less and less interesting every year and I think my instructors can tell. Hopefully it's a phase.

>>2081397
>>2081862
>not just doing grappling
You realize how insanely much more common wrestling/judo/jiu-jitsu/whatever gyms are than HEMA clubs, right?

>>2079958
>nobody practices them
Fiore guy here
I've never understood this, basically every fight where someone doesn't get hit in a few strikes ends up either retreating out of distance or wrestling each other.

>>2082476
The fun part is getting into grappling while your opponent is still clinging to his sword. You can't do that in wrestling.

Can I.33 be applied to single edged swords like sabers and backswords?

>>2084770
I've seen some videos of I.33 done with Messers so I'd say straight single edged swords can work.

>>2085220
how do you bind with the non-sharp edge?

So, I want to start to learn some HEMA (mostly interested in Destreza) but I don't have a club near, so it's factible to learn Hema solo? Any good manual for that?

>>2087601
Someone should write this in the first post, this question is asked/answered in every thread. You can learn some basics, but there's a very high chance you are going to learn them wrong, and get bad habits. Also a lot of the techniques explained in the treatises don't make much sense alone, so you should find at least another person interested in this. There aren't any manuals that are intended specifically for a person who is alone I think (since it would make little sense) but there are manuals that are easier to understand or have better translations

>>2087609
Fuck, thanks any ways.

>>2078086
Ive been using them for a couple of years now, really reliable and its the one I heavily recommend right now

>>2087510
Why would you?

>>2088201
false edge binding is a thing, i just wonder how it would be when it isn't sharp

>>2041031
>>2039029
Careful about associating a social justice cause with a community that isn't focused on social justice. Look what happend to Skinheads with their Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice (SHARP)

>>2088459
I imagine there wouldn't be much of a bind at all except near the tip where part of the false edge might be sharp like on messers.

This isn't completely /hema/ but is there any historical evidence of clergy taking up arms and fighting in battles?

>>2091463
Well first the military orders (those who took monastic vows that is, not counting the sergeants) are an obvious thing. Then you have some famous figure like Odo in the 11th century. There are some historical evidence of it, it's pretty much on the same level as "female warriors", but it's up there.

>>2091463
I know of some medieval bishops, who were feudatory too, who led armies in battle.
Fun thing is: the law said they couldn't spill blood. So they went in battle with wooden maces so they could break bones without wounding and spilling blood.

>>2091521
Which law is that exactly?
Hard mode: you can't use d&d.

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>>2091463
Here is one, abbot Kuno of St. Gallen is leading his troops against the free men of Appenzell. 1403, Appenzell won, outnumbered 10:1.
Bishops and Abbots where fighting all the time, during Feudalism every major landlord had to fight sometime or another.
Please open a thread on >>>/his/ if you need further info.

>>2091534
- 1079 a.D., Poitiers Council.
- second half of the XIII century, Bernard of Botone, "Glossa Ordinaria" on the Decretals of Gregory IX.
- 1314 a.D. Pope Clement V, Clementinae (fourth book of the Corpus Iuris Canonini)

but probably there's much more

>>2091970
>>2091463
Nice, thank you very much for this, it brought me back to studies.

So I found this book which is pretty much exactly on the subject:
https://books.google.fr/books?id=KnTdAgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=fr#v=onepage&q&f=false

So there are indeed an interdiction for clerics to participate in activities that involves shedding blood and time going on they could participate to battles if they didn't actively fought.
Now as the anon pointed out, their was numerous canonical laws that re-stated that the clergy couldn't bear arms (it was not, from what I've found about the blood spilling, but more directly about the arms bearing). Now of course that implies quite clearly that clergymen DID use weapons either in scuffles or directly in battles. Considering there was even laws about what a clergyman could do or not do in battle, it clearly suggests some were involved in them and most certainly some were in the fighting.

Now the grip is about the whole "wooden maces so that they could fight without spilling blood"-thing. It's brought out (first?) by the Oxford Dictionary for the Catholic Church, in the 20th century as an interpretation of the mace-bearing of Odo (and him mostly if not solely him). There is enough proof that clergymen went into battles with all sorts of weapons and since the 1078 council of Poitiers (a decade after Odo's shenanigans) stated that what was forbidden was directly the bearing of arms and not the blood spilling, I seriously doubt that he could have gotten away with just a wooden mace. It looks more like a cool anecdote that an actual way to get through the law. I would put it on the same level as "people bore messers because they were forbidden of wearing swords". At that time, it was perhaps Odo's way to fuck around the laws and have some jolly legal fun, but I doubt that if clergymen were busted, they could just say "guys, it was cool, I killed them without spilling blood". That's a bit too hypocritical, even for clergymen.

>>2018589
I wish to do HEMA but still next year I won't have time to sign up, are there video guides on how to learn the foot work and techniques for a beginner that you would recommend?

>>2092106
It would help to know what styles or weapons you are interested in.
Check this guy's channel for Bolognese Fencing for instance,
https://www.youtube.com/user/celgus/videos

>>2092119
Thanks mate that will be useful but I was wondering if there is something more on the tutorial side of things.

Does anyone have a Regenyei sharp longsword?
I have a blunt longsword and arming sword of his and they are great. How do his sharps compare?

>>2091463
Tons if you look at the early middle ages, Gregory of Tours mentions some abbot or some shit who every time he gets pissed off goes "oh, so just because I've had myself made a priest, now I can't avenge myself?!" and starts chasing the offender down with an axe, or the two guys Clovis has tonsured as monks and who "threaten to let their hair grow" and get their revenge, so then he just has them killed, etc.

Later there's peculiar shit like the Archpriest in the latter half of the 1300s, and of course Richelieu, Mazarin and Gondy who were all cardinals.

What does /hema/ think about Iaido, Kendo or just Kenjutsu as a whole?

Hopefully keeping this on topic.

>>2094331
Very positive about the JSA in general, but not my cup of tea.

>>2093297
I've been wondering in general about good smiths for sharps. The people I know all have Albions, and I was curious what the other options were, whether that's Regenyei or someone else.

>>>/qa/922397
you guys are my #2 general, please show that /asp/ is worth saving

>>2095357
Yeah, but before I order I would like to get some reviews from people

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>>2095596
There is no saving us.

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Any though about Neyman "cuirass" torso protector ?

New thread:
>>2096419

>>2088515
SHARP came about as a response to the rise of Blood and Honor and other white power skinhead groups in the 70s. The 60s movement didn't have racism in it. But racist groups latched on in the 70s, and mainstream media caught that. SHARP was the response after the media labelled skinheads racist.

FAR exists so that doesn't happen.