How do I stop hating trans-people?

>believing in the existence of "souls"

You sound childish and stupid. Kys.

>>18531345
*Tips*

Not that I think your strong feelings are really rooted in rational conviction, but for the record, your argument only really works when other people have no issue perceiving your soul and treating you accordingly. Blaming transpeople for wanting to look like the gender they want to be approached as is kind of like blaming older women in Hollywood for getting plastic surgery, instead of the culture that places an inane importance on youth and flawless looks. Your reasoning is highly idealistic and presupposed an entirely different world than the one people live in now.

Either way, I think a first step would be to consider that the existence of people who want to transition does not impact let alone hurt your life and to create some sort of distance between your opinion on it and your feelings. I'm sure there's lots of things worldwide you disagree with.

Also given how you propose the trapfapping and that it would be normal yourself that kind of makes me think that you have some lingering discomfort with whatever feelings of your own. Like disagreeing with the concept of transsexuality but feeling attracted to transwomen which intensified the negative emotions.

>>18531343
Idk man. I think they're weird too.m and I'm a former lesbian turned bisexual, haven't been with a woman in 5 years though and I don't plan on it ever again.

But darn those occasional gay thoughts.

>>18531343

Just don't give a fuck? They're just random people doing whatever shit they do, why should you care? As long as it's not harming anyone (other than maybe themselves), it shouldn't be any issue with you. Live and let live and all that shit.

>>18531343
Imagine being you. Then you wake up, look at yourself, you feel like girl, but in a wrong body. It is kinda the same issue as anorexia. No matter how slim they are, they still feel fat.

And it is a feeling you can never escape. Other people see you as boy, but you are deep down girl. And it practically destroys your whole life. Having family, children, significant other, it all goes to shit. You feel like girl and ever feeling boner disguist you. It is very bad fate.

Try to read suicide rates of trans people. Yes, they are mentally ill, but people like you dont help at all. It is like telling anorectic people to stop hating their bodies and start eating normally.

Maybe go lurk
>>>/lgbt/ and enable empathy in your head and see how tjey feel. Something as normal as not hatibg yourself is foreign concept for them.

They all wish they were normal, but they cant.

>>18531385
I lurked lgbt, they all be hating on each other

>>18531385
That's why you come to terms with your insecurities. I used to wake up and hate being me. 5'5 fugly ass hair and 200 lbs and a face that I hated. So, I improved what I could do. I lost weight, became happy with my height and who I was.

The key thing here is coming to terms with what you can't change because the problem probably is deeper than the superficial trait that you aren't happy with.

I didn't do the surgery to mutilate my shin bones so I could be maybe 3 inches taller. I became happy with being me.

>>18531440
Some of them actually fix it by non surgery means. Sometimes just taking hormones kills your boner, grow boobs and then you actually feel like girl in girls body.

Sadly some of them cant do that. Comparing being manlet fatass with having wrong gender is silly. And seriously, why do you care?

I bet you never actually met real trans yet. They are pretty rare. Much higher chance to meet gay.

>you are from london and triggered by genderless metro, arent you?

>>18531343
ignore them.

tolerance and acceptance are two different concepts. No one is forcing you to accept them. They just want you to acknowledged and tolerate their way of life.

>>18531345
Lol that's it. This is the answer right here. Thread closed

Can someone explain trannies to me? How can nature make them one way but they feel another way.

I'm not US, they don't teach us this stuff. I've never seen one irl.

>>18531454
Hormones won't fix them either. You're missing the point. They can't change how they were born and fighting that with surgery or hormones or whatever the fuck isn't going to fix their self image issues.

They need to look at them selves and be like: I may be born a man, but I can do x y and z to be happy with how I am.

I'm in college so I've met loads of trans people. Not a single one of them seemed really happy with themselves.

>>18531490
What you are suggesting is the reason they rather die than to live like that. It is hard to describe what it feels like when your mind (you) doesnt feel ok in your own body.

>college
>loads of trans people
Gender studies? Get real education which will actually secure you a job. Try something like stem.

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>>18531504
Kek you're such a faggot.

You come at me with so much hostility for no reason. I never implied shit you're just so butt ravaged that I'm asking people to come to terms with their insecurities.

Btw
I'm an industrial engineer who's already worked in the field.

>>18531343
>it conflicts with my general belief that the consciousness is the actual "soul" of a person, with the body as a vessel

If that is your belief, why fill your consciousness with hate over the actions of others when it doesn't affect you? They're changing their vessels because it makes their consciousness feel better. You holding it in your soul as hate seems worse to me.

>>18531521
Gender dismorphia isnt insecurity. I bet you go and tell people with clinical depression to not be sad too right?

And you still havent told us what exactly is your problem with them. Did some trans tried to date you or what?

>>18531385
>Then you wake up, look at yourself, you feel like girl, but in a wrong body.
But my ideology tells me that girls and guys are be the same base mentally and the only difference is hormones.

>>18531554
I am sorry that swjs, trans and feminazi people are throwed into same bullshit movement you can mostly only read about online.

Male and female brains have differencies. Just use google and educate yourself.

>>18531547
Again with the hostility.

Was diagnosed with ptsd, and bipolar disorder. Was given meds for my shit. The main difference was rather than using those labels as an excuse for my behavior I grew as person an over came my mental illness.

Mental illness isn't like a broken bone. Medically you can't fix them. Period. You have to fix yourself. Pills aren't going to fix me. I have to fix me. Considering that I'm the only member of my family that's happy with themselves, save for my mom, I'd say I've got my stuff figured out.

>>18531578
Yeah, bipolar is ugly one without solution. Only pills to minimize bad thoughts. But trans people have solution for that. Medicine can make them FEEL (and sometimes) even LOOK like them.

Some of them really have only two choices: try the cure or jump off from cliff.

I am not sure where do you feel the
>hostility
but as i see it, you have something against them. Your condition doesnt have cure, theirs one has. Anything is better than suicide, dont you think?

They actually feels hapy when they pass as the gender they are inside their head. What is your problem with them? And why arent you on /lgbt?

>>18531578
I bet you're one of those "u mad" people that thinks they win an argument if the opposing side uses cuss words.
Judging by your posts, there's no convincing you otherwise, but what is your rational for thinking being Trans is a mental illness? What insurmountable proof can you provide? Oh wait, you have none. Also, what insights does being happy and comfortable in your own skin provide for the exact opposite situation?

>>18531569
>Male and female brains have differencies. Just use google and educate yourself.
I get what you're saying and although i know there are literally physiological differences in their brains, i still believe that from a behaviour standpoint girls and guys can be the same.

Tangentially related but one off the rain why i really disliked trannies initially was this one case study of a guy who transitioned after he'd been in a relationship for years with his straight girlfriend. He was a nice enough dude before but after the switch he became a catty bitch who was jealous of his own SO and he claimed that he still liked girls and that his gf needed to let his female side sleep around with other women.

Seeing that just broke me, as i know straight guys who are catty and dislike them just as much as the girls who are also like that. Similarly, i prefer to be friends with girls who are blase like my male friends.

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>>18531618
>can be the same
Yeah, but they dont want to be. It is the same as gay people can have hetero sex, but they simply dont want to. Or like forcing boys to play with dolls while making girls building castles and beating the shit out of from imaginary fighters. Simply not gonna happen.

And hating trans just because one experience / story is dumb. It is same as hating girls because one cheated you and now you go and shout everywhere that all girls are cheating whores. Logical fallacy.

>i am not even sure what have you tried to tell by that post.

>>18531606
The only thing I have against them is you clearly saying their issue is mental. But saying that the solution is medical.

I see it as a mental issue that they have to come to terms with/over come rather than a medical condition needing a medical cure. That's all. I don't hate trans people. I want people to be happy with themselves and I think that the surgery won't fix the core issue. Their mental issue of gender dysphoria.

>I am not sure where do you feel the
>>hostility
>I bet you never actually met real trans yet.
>Gender studies? Get real education which will actually secure you a job
>being manlet fatass
These little quips clearly show that you're somewhat heated unless you aren't that anon.

Look just smile and lie. I'm pretty sure blacks are sub human and I think homosexuality is a mental illness, that doesn't mean they get my vilification. They get my pity, these things will show themselves to be problems as they live. In the meantime if someone needs a hand they got one.

>>18531640
>mental
>medical
Neuroscience is kind of blurry.

We can not program brains yet, but we can alter body. I bet you would be first in line if there was operation to get you rid off bipolarity.

Be like this >>18531643
anon. Autocensure yourself, smile and think whatever you want.

>>18531609
>Also, what insights does being happy and comfortable in your own skin provide for the exact opposite situation?
Because I wasn't always happy. And medication isn't how I came to terms with it.
>>18531640
Shows what I think of the issue clear as day

>>18531636
>but they dont want to be
There's actually a whole group of females who don't like to be feminine. They're called tomboys. You're further implications are baseless.

>hating ____ just because one experience / story is dumb
As out i needed to be told that. There's a reason I made this thread. Please at least try to be if you're going to post in this thread.

>>18531664
>You're
Your
>As out i needed to be told that.
As if-
>Please at least try to be if you're going to post in this thread.
Please try to be helpful if-

>>18531657
>Neuroscience is kind of blurry.
Precisely. I've just had and seen more success with it being treated as a mental illness rather than a physical affliction.

>>18531664
Existence of outliers doesnt prove anything.

And try ask some parents about how their kids behave. They often cant even read or speak properly, but the differences between boys and girls behavior is visible from very young age. They are simply born that way. And some rare minority has wrong body (or wrong brain).

There are few studies where some (imho crazy) scientists tried to raise boys as girls and vice versa. And guess what, it never worked. Even that one case where circumisation went wrong and they decided to make him as girl from start. He still felt like boy even when he had vagina from like age 0.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332396/Bruce-Reimer-Tragic-twin-boy-brought-girl.html

>>18531680
So mr. expert, how would you go and treated them with
>just be boy, because you have penis
therapy?

>>18531687
>>just be boy, because you have penis therapy.

It's the wrong way to go about it.

If you were born a man and felt like a woman since the beginning, be the most womanly man you can be without self mutilation/medication. Their cock was healthy and functioning. Physically it's ok. Don't cut it off. The cock wasn't the problem. Your mind was.

>>18531708
I am afraid numerous docs already tried this and it simply doesnt work.

>>18531687
While i don't disagree with actual scientific studies, we're getting too far off from my original statement about ideology and behavior (in a social context).

As an example, say I perceive someone's written views on a subject as a snapshot of their personality or "soul". I don't expect nor want to see transgender sentiments in any writing of theirs (be it political, educational, or otherwise) that's not about their personal life. I would say the same thing about a dude writing a sports journal; I'd be turned off if he suddenly started talking about his erectile dysfunction and image issues because of it. I know you can't very well pick and choose the parts of your friends' personalities you want to experience all the time but if be lying out i said i hadn't dropped a friend over them being petty and catty.

>>18531722
Damn that's unfortunate. Do you have a source? I would like to read on that.
If my kid was like this that's the way I'd go about helping him deal with his insecurities.

>>18531359
>trapfapping
I'm pretty sure it's normal to find big cocks around feminine bodies to be sexual no matter your orientation.

>>18531343
Hate them. Who cares? How many trans people have you met? Do you know any personally? Almost certainly not. So it doesn't matter.

I could hate Mongolians and it would never mean a damn thing. I've never seen one or been there. Probably never will. So it lacks all relevance.

Besides, you have bigger problems.

Aren't trans folks just people who gave up? So now this is my new identity.

>>18531733
>source
Happy reading
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=transgender+psychology+treatment
If you are on some uni, your library pays for access to private catalogues which will have 10x more studies to read.

The tldr is
>we are not sure, but it is heavily individual and majority cant be treated via cbt or similiar
And
>almost all of them are way more happier after hormone treatement / surgery

>>18531728
Yeah, some trans people are very loud minority. Some of them are pure crazy. We shouldnt treat them differently, but even single question like
>are you boy?
can trigger them.

>>18531743
What about the fact that trannies aste being pushed in mainstream tv, film, abbr vidya? Not to mention the trap and genderbending antics of anime. It's kind of hard to not come in contact with it at least accidentally.

>>18531733
Also, all you need to do as parent is to set strict rules and boundaries (so your kid doest grow up as spoiled brat), give him some support, love, resources and make him do some sport.

It will show its interests itself. All you have to do is to not try to override his interests and hobbies (so you never tell him things like
>only girls cry
>that is gay
>girls cant do this
and so on). Chances are high that he will turn out totally normie. But if not, just support him. No need to study trans for "just in case". Kids are born with personality, you dont give them one.

>>18531343
Leave the superstitious nonsense behind, for starters.(Yeah. Tip, tip, tip.)
Secondly, realize that a lot of the time they do it as a way to feel comfortable in their own skin (hormonal disorders are a thing), not just a "I want to dress up in women's clothes and not get weird looks" thing.

>>18531762
Once again I ask you, how many trans people have you met? Do you know any personally?

>>18531477
When you live in a society the celebrates mental illness you get shit like this. That's why gays, trannies, and other degenerate groups running around. Consider yourself lucky you never got introduced to this problem

>>18531343
I am not necessarily intolerant to them, but I find this movement mildly annoying, especially when teens start transitioning (because who the fuck knows who they are at 15 anyways)

My issue with it is, a lot of SJWs acknowledge that gender is a social construct. I agree with that, society has created gender roles. Therefore, gender is essentially man-made/society-made.

It literally upsets me that in order for people to feel like their "true selves", they feel the need to attach themselves so deeply to their gender with the most material things. Like I am a woman, my femininity is not defined by my hair, boobs, and clothes. The state of looking like a female is not the reason, but instead the catalyst to why gender roles exist. Vis Versa for a man.

Therefore, changing your appearance is only a failed attempt to fit into a man-made expectation of the opposite gender. Continuing the bullshit that men can't do woman things and women can't do man things.

>>18531609
Can you prove it's not a mental illness? I'll wait

>my body has an intense reaction to it (which is normal)
Not for straight people

>>18531818
See >18531740

>>18531812
> who the fuck knows who they are at 15 anyways
I was damn sure what gender I was at 15 and would bet good money you were too.

>>18531740
You're wrong though.

>>18531816
Find one trans person who has a higher quality of life after transitioning and you're there.

>>18531830
https://youtu.be/qMoEs7eQeZE

>>18531824
I am referring not only to gender but to identity as a whole. Kids who struggle with identity roles and fitting in. Like I know too many teens, that I have known since they were children, that are just like, "Well, I am pretty sure I am a man now." completely out of the blue.

Kinda reminds me when I was a teen and all the girls started saying they were bisexual because it was the new thing and it made people turn their heads/they received praise for coming out/they became more socially accepted

>>18531477
Because your brain is a physical thing that affects the way you feel and can be fucked up just like any other part of your body.

Some people are born with little flippers for arms and some people are born with brains that think they're the other gender.

>>18531343
You don't have to stop.
I hate them for different reasons, those being that they are on a conquest to erase the definition and experiences of natal born women. I used to be tolerant of them until they started the whole "biologic sex is transphobic!" Thing. Now I can't even talk about pregnancy, periods, or childhood female socialization without them seeing it as an attack on their "femininity".

You do not have to conform to accepting any ideology in your life including the trans agenda.

>>18531816
But trannies agree that it is a mental illness, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue? The term is gender dysphoria.

>>18531578
Are you saying you no longer take meds? BPD isn't just something that comes and goes. I mean if you aren't just being a faggot liar on an anonymous imageboard and really have "overcome" BPD, whatevfer that means, then good for you. But the fact is the vast majority of people with BPD have to manage it with medicine their whole lives or it will take them over.

>>18531838
No, actually you referred to gender. You know, the thing you were talking about? You might have had irrelevant thoughts at the time, but they're still irrelevant

Big fucking deal. Who cares. You don't have to be friendly or cordial with anybody if you don't want to. Get over it.

>>18531861
The point that is going over your head:

Adolescent minds that are unsure of where they fit in this world tend to sucker in to controversial identities in hopes of finding themselves and where they fit in society

This goes across the board from
>gender
>sexuality
>subcultural phases (goth, emo, scene)
>etc.

I am not saying transgender people do not exist. I am saying that I think that a lot of lost teens are hopping on the trans train because they are in a, fairly normal, identity crisis that is common among most adolescents. With that, I do not think that a teen who, suddenly at 15, feels out of their skin as their biological sex, should undergo something serious like hormonal therapy suddenly.

>>18531900
I was very sure of my gender and still am. You were too. Were either of us wrong?

>>18531912
Still it goes over your head.

I am not talking about most teens. And I am not talking about my identity crisis. When I was 15, I very deeply wanted to be a crusty punker that lived on the streets to fit in with that lifestyle because I admired it deeply. I even gender-bended my clothes, whacked off all my hair and was sure I was lesbian.

And boy was I wrong. I was 15 ten years ago, and literally nothing of the person I was then.

You want to keep pushing how sure identity is for teens and even adults? You are lucky to have had such a sureness. Whether you are trans or not.

Well OP, no one can stop you from disliking trannies if you want to, however I do have some thoughts on the reasoning you've given as a sort-of tranny myself.

> I can understand getting fit if you wanted to just feel better and crush some puss

Here's my slightly controversial opinion: virtually all modifications to appearance are done to attract other people socially or sexually. The key is, GLBT people (among others) use more unusual methods because they have more unusual desires.

If you are a straight guy or gal, it's relatively simple (not easy per se, but simple). Get /fit/, play up your masculinity or femininity, don't come off as a psycho. Now you just be around the opposite sex and either approach or make yourself available. It's already assumed what sex with your mate will consist of and who will play what role.

For gays its different, they have invented many systems of signaling preferences: butch/femme, hanky code, even things like Polari. Kinky people will do similar things as well. Mostly this is for sex, but also people like to talk to other queers just to discuss shared experiences.

Trannies want to express a role both sexually or socially that is hard to do while projecting their bio sex. Sometimes, they find a way to do it by joining some subculture or just crossdressing. Others go full on with the hardcore medical transition. Most of them try other methods before going that far, because it's a shit option in many ways. But the aim is the same: find a way to interact with people sexually and socially in a way that satisfies you. In a way, Mike Cernovich's "everyone just wants to get paid and laid" tweet is bang on, he just doesn't realise some people have to go to some pretty weird lengths.

TL;DR there is no real reason to see transexual body modifications as that much different from other people's, except in invasiveness/social acceptability. That's just to address the argument from your post, there are other reasons to make a distinction.

>>18531837
>neuroscientists do some laughably bad sociology, make a psychological explanation for it
yeah, dicks still aren't something straight men find sexually exciting. it's almost like those dudes were working well outside their specialties

>>18531920
so no, you did not bought your gender. but your point is that for trans people gender is a haircut or subculture and not gender, because you dress different now? dumb bitch

>>18531974
Yes, it is exactly my point that society materializes gender with superficial expectations.

Which is why I find that the trans-movement perpetuates the very thing that causes trans people to feel unrelated to their biological sex.

If you feel the opposite gender (which is man made) why continue the cycle that man-made things can only fix this (i.e. surgeries, plastic dicks and boobs, clothing, hair, hair removal, etc.)?

>>18531974
Gender literally is a lifestyle, whether it matches your sex or not. Prove me wrong.

>>18531994

So do you only dislike trannies who get the OP or crossdress? What about people who only express it in private, or who feel a certain way but stick two fingers up to using some material means of expressing it? And what do you think of all those people on tumblr who do literally nothing to convey another gender, but demand to be called by "they" or the opposite pronoun (leaving aside the really dumb ones for now)?

Do you also dislike non-trans people who get plastic surgery or who are highly materialistic?

>>18532006

Agree

>>18532025
I don't dislike trannies, I kinda agree with OP with the materialism of it all. It's not that I don't think it's possible for people to not feel like their gender. I don't hate them, I just whole-heartedly disagree that your outside has so much to do with your inside.

A solution I'd like to see, but we are far from, is gender roles to be fluid. When there is such gender rigidity in our society and it is so entwined with the way we look, it causes people to go so extra in the opposite direction to prove their lack of gender rigidity.

It is discomforting to me when anyone has issues with the way they look that can only be changed through surgery and materialism. Of course we all have things we want to change, but they are also bred through unrealistic gender expectations that have been washed through our brains making us uncomfortable in our own skin. The thought of people, trans or not, feeling so uncomfortable within their skin makes me feel like crap. I don't think this issue is to be solved with changing our appearance, rather self acceptance and societal acceptance.

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>>18531343
Being trans is a medical condition, not a choice.

It has to do with the "body map" you have in your head not aligning with the physical reality.

People who have "phantom limbs" after having them amputated suffer from this problem to a certain extent.

Trans people are made trans by having certain hormones wash over them in utero that alter their brain, and by virtue their body map as well.

>>18531578

I have a friend who went through cancer, has ptsd, lemon juice flows out instead of tears when they cry, their parents were murdered by godzilla.

they got over it. stop being a pussy LOLOLO

srsly though. so the fuck what? I'm as brown as they come and I didn't flinch when some extremely autistic racist yt person started throwing shit and calling us wetback and spic at me and my dad when we were coming in to recycle electronics. Hell, me and my dad were about kick his ass up until he went to bitch to the staff, who promptly laughed at him and told us to just cut the line so we could leave and not have to listen to him.

A few months ago, a server gave shitty, and passive-agressive racist service to a cousin when she took her kid out to eat. It hit her fucking hard. You know what empathetic people do? You know what I did, even though that wouldn't bother me that much? I would fucking misten to them and understand them, asshole.

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>>18532076

OK, well I think that is cool enough of an opinion.

The problem is more of a practical one- we are trying to communicate with each other and are resorting to an existing language steeped in materialism. As sensory beings we absorb reality through representations such as language/images/physical objects. We can't just beam our feelings into each other's heads as if we were using the Point of View Gun from Hitchhiker's Guide. Self expression is then very easily commodified, because representations and material objects that signify things can be bought and sold. It takes time to introduce new concepts and it is often only possible with reference to the existing system.

Personally speaking, I don't want to have to wait around and not get on with the business of living my life, so I do use clothing and such to try and show other people things about myself. It makes life slightly easier. I also don't begrudge trans people who get a medical transition or non-trans image-conscious people who get plastic surgery and the like. As long as they are somewhat self-aware, there is little else they can really do. You can't opt out of the gender norms and materialism of our society, you have to find your own way of navigating them. See pic for more info.

>>18531855
Yep no more meds. They told me exactly what you said "you should be taking these your whole life."

What I found was any strides that I made for myself the doctors would tell me and my parents that it was basically the meds fixing me rather than me growing and learning.

It be like when I was young I'd say to the doc "I figured out how not to get as upset at other people making fun of me."

"Nice looks like the meds are working"

I hated that shit.

So when I was 18 i didn't sign for anymore perceptions. Havent been happier.