kado

He was a dangerous information junkie, he needed to get NTR'd out of our universe.

>>159213745
how is the one they replaced him with better? What good about losing all the technology? is having a 16 year old raised in isolation commit a murder a good parenting move?

>>159213850
The series realized natural development was the way to go instead of rapid bursts to satisfy some retard's information fix.
The technology was crap in the series, it didn't even bother to show a single negative consequence.

>>159213921
>The series realized natural development was the way to go instead of rapid bursts to satisfy some retard's information fix.
There is a middle ground. also I don't believe people somehow become worthy of technology, it just is. your great-grandfather is no less worthy of the internet than you.
>The technology was crap in the series, it didn't even bother to show a single negative consequence.
would have been easy to show someone accidentally burn away their life in a time dilation or companies forcing people to work crazy hours because they don't need sleep(electricity is not where the human needs end). someone falling into endless sleep because another version of them kept staying up all the time.
>time
is has not been long seen technology was added but I would have liked to see some African village get a lights out because the zookeeper thinks "natural" is the way to go, maybe someones pacemaker stopping because they chose to power it with a wam

>literally everyone forgot about this show just 1 (ONE) day after
Sad!

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>>159214223
>is has not been long seen technology was added but I would have liked to see some African village get a lights out because the zookeeper thinks "natural" is the way to go, maybe someones pacemaker stopping because they chose to power it with a wam
That small scene with the two brothers was super cute and heart warming too.

>Saudi Arabia has less money to fund terrorism with because rip Big Oil
>Don't have to deal with horrible power plant's impacts on workers and environment anymore. Free to instead use Wam and invest fully into Green Energy
>Developing countries around the world can now skip horribad stages of energy/industry
>Electricity
>God damn Electricity though look how happy they are
>Thanks Shindo thanks Tsukai
>All those Environmental activists happy about a future with drastically less pollution
>Literal impoverished children in Africa probably used Wam to improve their lives and the lives of other around them, and now they're fucked again.

Rest in peace.

It still sucks that they spent the entire series endearing this character to the audience only to put him through such a cruel and unusual death, and didn't even try to work with him to find an alternative solution.
We're right, you're wrong, so instead of trying to find a middle ground, we're just going to kill you. Even if Shindo's original plan had worked, he still would have been trapped in the isolator for eternity, which isn't a much better fate.

I can't believe you guys managed to sit through all that CGI. You're like tasmanian devils of anime consumers: you can digest any fucking rotten piece of shit.

>>159214999
>and didn't even try to work with him to find an alternative solution

In the case you didn't realize it Shindo is evil. He forced his daughter and his best friend in isolation for 16 years for his selfish desires

>>159214877
This series was absolute trash, one of the worst anime I've ever watched, it ended up being literally worse than Eromanga Sensei.

The sooner people forget about it the better

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>>159215119
The definition of wasted potential.
>>159215055
Meh, the CGi was one of the redeeming qualities. The animation was consistently top-notch.

>>159214974
>All those Environmental activists happy about a future with drastically less pollution

To be fair, free infinte energy also means adding more and more energy to a limited system. A drastic increase in energy consumption would heat up the planet, because most energy is lost as heat with our current technology.
I don't think environmental activists are too happy about that.

The author was right. I didn't expect this ending, even with the time fuckery being shown. I'm really upset still.

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>>159215195
>the CGi was one of the redeeming qualities

Fucking disgusting. Yea it was "well done" CGI, and the stills looked fine, but any movement immediately looked like a PS1 cutscene. Get some god damned taste you insufferable plebeian.

>>159214974
except
>ONE guy misuses the Nanomis-hein on purpose or accidentally
>the earth and/or mankind is annihilated in an instant

>>159215397
Shhhhhh you can't stop people from wanking to the barebones "sci-fi".

>>159213709
How the fuck did we go from potential AOTS to the worst anime of the season?

>>159213709

>>159211428
But where is the correlation between knowing they were up to something and being prepared for it?

>>159215397
That could literally happen now with nukes.

>>159215626
Except not every asshole can make a nuke if they think really hard about it.

>>159215665
Is it that easy to make a nuke with Wam though?

>>159215510
This used to be my AOTS before this disgusting final episode, now Tsuki Ga Kirei is my AOTS while Kado can go fuck itself.

I hope Toei fucking burns to the ground

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>>159215325
They don't address that during the show, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say 'anisotropic' as if that explains anything.

>>159215397
>>159215665
>Everything goes fine
>Yellowstone erupts or the meteors hit or Trump Trumps Trump
>The earth and/or mankind of annihilated in an instant

>>159215743
Toei Animation are truly the scum of the anime industry. If ruining classic series with QUALITY wasn't enough, they also ruin their potentially good anime. Jesus Christ fuck them, fuck those pieces of shit.

Why do Japs keep fucking up this concept again and again?

First, it was Gate and now it was this. All I want is a show where a political drama about a government/society realistically reacts to cool fantasy/sci-fi elements introduced to it, but Japs keep derailing it with drama and conservatism for the sake of conservatism.

>>159215772
The heating problem is literally one of the few drackbacks explicitly indicated in the show.

How much of the trainwreck was Toei and how much was Nozaki?
From a technical and artistic standpoint, Kado was stellar from start to finish. The direction, animation, and soundtrack were brilliant. The writing, on the other hand, was where it fell flat.
So tell me, who was in the wrong here?
The guy who wrote this crap? Or the studio who did their best to polish a turd?

>>159216014
The animation wasn't that good, though. Better than Berserk, sure.

>>159215926
>the natives are fucking retarded and need to bow down to the whims of a literally pure lily white saviour to solve all their problems for them
>it's okay if many, even most, of the natives die because the natives will be preserved in some form in the end
>uncritically accepting the rule of this lily white saviour will grant the native civilizations 'uplift'
>if you don't believe in this you're a conservative

>>159215626
does every kid/terrorist/idiot/mental case in the world have their personal nuke collection that they can just fire away at will?
do missile defense systems not exist anywhere?
is the nanomis-hein undoubtedly of larger destructive capability than any human weapon in existence?

not according to this retard, apparently

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>>159216245
I am talking about the "this is the right way because it is the way of our people and it always has been" logic that served as the special snowflake's logic to justify ruining uplifting for all of humanity instead of trying to negotiate a way in which we could keep the awesome tech and also not die, when she and the protag were both supposed to be amazing negotiators.

The fact that the villain ended up a bland character that had to have a secret, completely absurd agenda, that required the deaths of thousands of millions, and thus made negotiating useless is precisely a sign of the closemindedness of the author.

>>159213709
i prefer to think he got infected by the earthlings and their informations, he even exhibits emotions in the end like jealously, anger and fear

>>159213709
Kado was an allegory for the current crisis Japan is undergoing as it faces increased foreign cultural influence and declining birthrates.
The anisotropic represents the siren call of information from different dimensions (representing current Japan's addiction to 2D media). Japan needs to fight against being absorbed completely by the anisotropic otherwise it will lose itsself.
zaShunina represents the evil of non-breeding, not homosexuality per se, but the temptation to be a non-productive, non-child producing individual who does little to contribute to the preservation of Japanese culture and society for the future.
The anisotropic temptation was overcome by the worthy act of procreation which allows the Japanese people to continue as a nation.
In a nutshell - BE PRODUCTIVE. MAKE BABIES.

>>159214974
>invest fully into Green Energy
Why would you invest in something you already have?
>>159215397
again middle ground. If it does not fall into common peoples hands than you will just have rotten status quo extending itself into forever

>>159215986
If they could draw energy out of 40D how hard to send them back really?

so what are the chances that 1 guy kidnapped bunch of kids from a hospital and then started his own fucked up empire in a time bubble, he was the only one there with all the power

>>159214999
I assumed they could visit him in isolation. after all did not they hide in a cube like that?
>cruel
The last nail was when they would not even let him near shindo's body for goodbye. it ends on "yeah I guess he was not such a bad guy after all. we still fucked him up good, brah"

>>159215062
that can't be good for the girls mental health. also they skipped it over but it makes no sense. Its like saying breeding a human with a monkey would produce a super human, that is some forbidden research. The made a kid for the kid just to be a tool for their goal and somehow they controlled that super kid for 16 years and somehow she inherently had all the skills and knowledge

>>159215119
Its one of the cases where gay ending would have been the best ending

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Finished it and what a waste of potential. Just too many plot points kill it, not even counting how it ended.

>Anisotropic beings spell out that humanity is the only thing that makes the universe interesting
>Anisotropic beings focus on earth and one decides to come before life on earth begins

This series would have been better if the Anisotropics would have just been an alien species 1000+ years ahead of us than the '40D creators of the universe but still wuv my hasubando' nonsense.

>>159215926
Because they don't want to play it straight, they are always looking for the next twist and it just does not play. I cant get fired up about them gunning down some romans or impressing them, that works when 1 person go into the past, does not work when he has the whole society behind him.
>political drama about a government
most of the time they can't write that for shit, instead they go for basic stuff and exaggerate its importance. They also like playing it safe, never dealing with implications, instead just having info dumbs about organizational structure

>>159216014
>From a technical and artistic standpoint, Kado was stellar from start to finish.
it was ok. it had its style, even if everyone having pharaoh eyelashes got old

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Tsukai is cute. CUTE

>>159216315
kind of a side note but why did not they solve mental illness? I mean it would be insulting and there is a question of what constitutes mental health but is it any more insulting that just waving away sleep and energy crisis ?

>>159215397
>>159215325

That would have been an interesting conflict to explore in the series. Much better than the shitty conflict we got actually got, where the antagonist had some retarded plan that might kill off all humans at best and the protagonists wanted to eliminate all his technology because it is just not supposed to exist.

>>159219145
if we go by this show and this analysis how do I impregnate the anisotropic ?
> non-productive, non-child producing individual who does little to contribute to the preservation of Japanese culture and society for the future.
except our hero got his best friend to raise his kid for him. This does not speak of productivity or strong family ethic. They had very utilitarian use for the kid and then it fucked off. while the best find was raising this kid he never got to have kids of his own and is already past his prime

>>159219533
This, also maybe stick with 2 gifts. wam to draw people in and sansa to make them sumptuous of mental alteration. untill the end we did not see anything suspicious that would create suspense. We also did not see a lot of none human behavior, Anisotropic avatar just acted like a guided doll until the very end, it had wisdom to be considered of everyone/plan for reactions/get help/etc yet could not deal with muh feels

>>159219616
>Hypercuck disapproves and plans to preserve humans so they can make him endless bread and books by removing everything differentiating them from the other beings he was already bored of since forever, and he's hunted down and obliterated by sheer radiance of het for being fundamentally dumb.
kind of true.near the end I expected him to say that if he can't take people to the Aerosoltopics , he would drag the Aerosoltopics to earth (so they could do cute boy things)

>>159219727
the ex wife(?) seemed cuter

>>159219283
>If we can draw energy out of coal how hard is it to turn energy back into coal

>>159220355
we don't draw energy out of coal. I agree that "just revers the polarity" sounds like a crap they pull in low grade stories but I think you get what he really means.

>>159213921
>natural development

Like any other scientific researcher (except maybe some miserable people working for the DoD) I wake up every day hoping to make a major breakthrough, that it doesn't happen is just a regrettable consequence of us humans not being that smart.

>>159220619
+ there is also the ago old question of what is natural.

>>159213921
>natural development
The thing is, the actual idea of artificially pushing us forward with the three gifts was never actually proven to be a bad thing by the show.
The only reason it failed was not because 'we weren't ready for it', it's because Anisotropic Romeo couldn't restrain himself for another 1000 years or so after waiting around for 20 billion years in the first place.
The moral of the story wasn't that 'we couldn't handle it,', it's that 'He couldn't handle it.'

>>159213709
>kill
Ejected from 3rd.
He is still in the upper dimensions. Even Shindo family is in the upper dimensions now(showing Saraka at the end disappearing in bright light after realizing what her daughter said).

Why would you think that zaShunina won't be there?

>show starts with shallow pseudo-science
>show ends with shallow pseudo-science
>wasted potential
Only people who are too dumb to realize that the setting is in an unstable ground to begin with ends up feeling that the plot progression disappointing.
And probably fujos as well because the show happened to end with a pair they don't like.

>>159218027
>>159215926
There's no such thing as free lunch.
If a foreign entity offers you so, then you'll be dumb not to expect that it wants something in return.
If it doesn't explicitly state what exactly that it wants to you, then there's a high chance that what it wants is not a good thing for you.

The series wants to tell the viewers not to rely or assume help from foreign entities.
Misrepresenting that and dumb it down to 'conservatism for the sake as conservatism' just because you happened to disagree with the message is just plain dishonest.

>>159222719
Be Xenophobic. Got it, Japan. The Neofeudal shall come.

>>159222002
so you saying that his punishment for trying to forcefully evolve people was to be forcefully evolved beyond death? to a "dimensions " where all humans seem to go anyway?

>>159221484
>never actually proven to be a bad thing by the show
True, but you'll have to be naive to not see that it will eventually cause negative disruptions to the society.
Preventing that from happening is a necessity. Humans can experiment more about them when they actually know more about what they're actually doing.

>>159222930
>>>/pol/
This thread is for the discussion of the anime. If you don't agree with a particular ideology you can discuss is at length in the appropriate board.

>>159222719
its just your jaded side talking. Just because something is unlikely to happen or has never happen before does not mean it can't happen.
>Misrepresenting
they thew away even the good. also never asked the will of the people

>>159223078
>know more about what they're actually doing
so ask for a book instead of the device

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>>159213709
I think this is one of the worst endings in anime I have ever seen.

Copy pasta.


The wam, all the gifts
- it's like it never fucking happened.

Hanamori and Yukika
- why the hell did they need Hanamori to raise Yukika? I understand Shindo trying to not look older but what about Tsukai? Can she stay young forever?
It would explain why Yukika doesn't seem to give a shit about her parents. She doesn't even acknowledge her mother and doesn't even look sad that Shindo is dead. Then she proceeds to fuck off. It's like she is telling them "this is all you wanted me to do? I am done, I am leaving" what a fucking sad family.

Shindo probably just used her mother so that he could have a backup plan and Yukika probably knows that's the whole purpose of her existence and Tsukai probably figure it out too eventually considering she grew up having an actual loving father and a real family instead of the bullshit they put her through. Plus she just stood there and didn't do shit. Also fuck Natsume for saying that Hanamori is not Yukika's father. He is the closest thing Yukika has for a family and that's sad.

Show about negotiations
- shonen fight end.

It's bad end for everyone

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>>159222389
>show starts with slow SoL with minor political themes about some guy who talks his way out of problems
>show ends with the protagonist having his timetraveling "infinity+1 dimensional" daughter that we had never seen before punch a hole into a villain with a motivation that made no sense, while his girlfriend/wife/author self-insert justified with anti-scientific drivel about how the natural way is the best way, without giving minor scrutiny to the implications of such logic

>>159223210
>It would explain why Yukika doesn't seem to give a shit about her parents. She doesn't even acknowledge her mother and doesn't even look sad that Shindo is dead. Then she proceeds to fuck off. It's like she is telling them "this is all you wanted me to do? I am done, I am leaving" what a fucking sad family.
1. she was not raised normally. 2. her dad is not really dead to her because as a super special being she can talk to the dead in their dimension. She does not give a fuck because she is a mix, like Tsukai she may not see the difference between a clone and a real thing and is only going by what she has been told.

>>159223148
>Just because something is unlikely to happen or has never happen before does not mean it can't happen.
I imply nothing of the sort. Expecting something and knowing something is a completely different concept.

In the series, Japan decided to bet against that while the UN did otherwise.
The show only progresses to show the most likely outcome in the setting.

>they thew away even the good. also never asked the will of the people
Saraka asked her daughter to disable them as to being responsible by preventing all the various negative affect the gifts can have to humanity.
True there might be a positive effect as well. But this just describes that she rather prevent the negative than allow the positive. Which is an entirely justifiable action for one's character in terms of responsibility.

>>159223209
Sure, point that to them if there's a new anisotropic being that'll visit at a later date.

>>159223505
>>159223455
Im saying there is a middle ground. Saraka did not pick the best option, even from the alarmist point of view she picked the extreme

>>159223227
From the moment they went into Kado in the airplane (which is at the end of ep 0) it is shallow pseudo-science bullshit.
The Wam and Sansa only affirms to that more.

>>159223505
>New anisotropic comes by
>color pallet the same as zaShunina, but the light and darks are reversed
>slightly more spiky hair
>drags zaShunina along
>zaShunina a neurotic mess

>>159219398
>The last nail was when they would not even let him near shindo's body for goodbye.
That was the second to last nail. The last nail was the sight of his bookmark vaporizing as the last thing he got to see before dying.

>>159223594
That is for the character in the series to make the choice.
Saraka's choice might not be optimal in everyone's interpretation because it doesn't need to be that way in terms of storywriting.
It only has to be justifiable, and her actions is perfectly justifiable.
Whether she asked her daughter to disable the gifts out of responsibility to prevent a preventable potential disaster or whether she believed that humans would be better of to reach that level technology by themselves.

>>159221484
It kind of does. The Tropersphere sucks so much that Earth is the coolest thing they've ever perceived and it would interfere with development in any other direction.

>>159223740
>zaShunina a neurotic mess
somehow I want to see this

>>159223856
it kind of does not because its implied they have unlimited amount of earths. Changing a few in hopes of it leading to new info seems just like that they usually do

>>159222719
>If a foreign entity offers you so, then you'll be dumb not to expect that it wants something in return.
The start of the fucking show had the protagonist talk about how negotiation is about finding a way in which all parts can fulfill their interests. That is a correct assessment of real world politics, foreign or internal parties be involved. It would have been nice to see the author creating a situation where that would have come into play.

But no, the villain HAD to have a plan that involved risking the lives of ALL humanity, possibly to gain nothing, and showing no patience to achieve it despite perceiving time much differently than humans. JUST so there was no option but telling the foreign entity to fuck off.

It is conservatism for the sake of conservatism because the antagonist is given a goal that the protagonist wouldn't ever consider letting him achieve, and the effects of the antagonist's intervention on humanity are dismissed without giving them the slightest scrutiny. The female lead's logic makes no sense and she looked in the wrong right until the villain admitted he didn't really care about sacrificing all humans for a small chance of getting one into the anisotropic. Had the work portrayed the destructive effects of the alien technology on the world, or had the antagonist been given a more realistic goal, then it might be a properly justified stance on isolationism. But it was not.

>>159223879
He'd possibly look around nervously, keep his hands close to his chest or mouth, and tail very closely to the new anisotropic as if it will protect him.

>>159223601
Why the fixation on pseudo-science? Change everything to "magic" and the plot collapse is equally bad.

Jesus, what a waste of time.

Can't believe they actually ruined this series. The ending was utter shit.

>>159223824
it is not show as the character choice, it is shown as the moral of the story.

>>159223879
I still like the proposed S2 that follows Yukika meeting zaShunina again some time down the road (who at this point is just so fucking depressed he can barely function, but Earth is still better than Novo at this point), and the two of them developing an odd, melancholy kinship over both being unique entities with nowhere to belong.

>>159224079
is his new body gender bent?

>>159224048
>negotiation is about finding a way in which all parts can fulfill their interests
True, and when the other party hides or avoid their interests, then there's a good chance that the other party is aware that his interests contradicts yours.

>Had the work portrayed the destructive effects of the alien technology on the world
It does shows but not explicitly. In fact, it would only be naive to assume infinite power, time/space manipulator or mental anisotropic won't have disastrous effects on the world.

>antagonist been given a more realistic goal
What other goal/interest for an anisotropic being has that one would classify as realistic?
The entity has been living since the start of the universe and human concepts such as mortality wouldn't regard to him properly.
His goals/interest might not seem realistic to you or humans in the series, but the same cannot be said to an anisotropic being.

>risking the lives of ALL humanity, possibly to gain nothing
Again same as above.

>>159224081
Sure, change it to magic. I was contesting the poster that label the show wasted potential because of the 'magic' plot progression on ep 10 when the show was using silly 'magic' from the start to begin with.

>>159224139
Sure, the moral of the story was
>Whether she asked her daughter to disable the gifts out of responsibility to prevent a preventable potential disaster or whether she believed that humans would be better of to reach that level technology by themselves.

If you disagree with the moral of the story then cool.
But it's still dishonest to dismiss it as 'conservatism for the sake as conservatism' just because you don't happen to agree with it.

>>159224215
>Scattered about his feet lay countless crumpled pieces of paper, some vaguely resembling creatures, but not quite. All failed attempts to recreate something he had seen before--origami animals made by unsteady hands that had never been properly taught how to fold the paper. Like he had seen the finished products, but never learned how to get to that point.
>The man looked diminished and frail in his oversized cloak, white hair falling from beneath his hood to obscure his face. At a glance, he must appear an old man--for who else could exude such melancholy of a long life wasted? But I knew. I had met him before.

>>159224672
>But it's still dishonest to dismiss it as 'conservatism for the sake as conservatism' just because you don't happen to agree with it.
what more was to it than "I would like my dad to keep doing his metal art, even if the time is moving past him" just on a bigger scale

>>159224806
>to disable the gifts out of responsibility to prevent a preventable potential disaster or whether she believed that humans would be better of to reach that level of technology by themselves

>>159214974
WE WUZ ANISOTROPIC N SHIT

>>159224873
except the gifts are a metaphor for railways and cellphones.

>>159224783
>hood
The cloak has a good on it?

>>159224968
Railways and cellphones can't offer unlimited energy nor manipulate time/space.

>>159224953
don't be mean.

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>>159224996
yes.

>fujobait of the season
>people can't write properly
Sasuga fujos.

>>159225038
Cute.

>>159213709
Kado the right trainwreck

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How it should have ended

>>159224997
yet they were perceived as danger in their own time. every advancement has come with people screaming how this new item would steal what makes us human or cause endless effects. until people had time to try there is no way of knowing if the talk is in the "vaccination causes autism" or a legit concern. you have not held a nonmisheim so you don't really have any way of knowing how easy it would be to turn to evil. IMHO "zero kara hajimeru mahou" did this moral a lot better.

so the "solution" was to prove that ZaShunina's people have not finished evolving (despite being non corporeal) by breeding a human with an avatar?

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So is he really dead? Or did he just get booted out of the cocoon?

>>159225080
clearly they made an effort to make a wam. That is a lot different than we waz claims of today

>>159225607
Not too sure myself. I hope he just got booted out of the cocoon since killing him would sort of undermine the series itself.

Lots of people have already mentioned this, but they completely dropped the negotiation/"talk-out-our-problems" themes pretty quickly.

>fujoshits who wanted gay couple were BTFO
>seinenfags with high hopes of a decent story were also BTFO

S..Sasuga Toei

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>>159225607
>At this point is completely defeated and resigned.
>Instead of letting him reach Shindo's body for his last goodbyes, they just nuke him while he desperately clutches the one gift he'd ever given him, and it gets destroyed too.
I would have been better with this ending if they'd at least allowed him to make his peace and maybe lay his bookmark on Shindo's body, but god damn, that was just mean-spirited.

>>159224505
>True, and when the other party hides or avoid their interests, then there's a good chance that the other party is aware that his interests contradicts yours.
And so? You can negotiate those by finding middle grounds. In fact, in real world politics it is common that some of your interests contradict some of your other interests, which leads to the complex bullshit that most politicians have to deal with.

>It does shows but not explicitly. In fact, it would only be naive to assume infinite power, time/space manipulator or mental anisotropic won't have disastrous effects on the world.
But why does it not show them? The conflict these technologies would cause would lead to more conflicts much better suited for a team of negotiators than the ones we do see in the show and wouldn't have required superpowered daughter to be solved.

>anisotropic beings I don't have to explain shit
Cthulhu might have an agenda we don't understand, but the real agenda behind all of his actions will be the writer's agenda. And the writer's agenda in this tory was creating an antagonist that couldn't be reasoned with. And that is because he was created as a strawman to be burned.

>>159224672
Not that guy. And the part I call "conservatism for the sake of conservatism" is the female lead's logic for cutting off the anisotropic, which is more or less presented as the logic of the show. And I call it that because there is no proper development to her logic. Things are better the way they are because that is the way they have always been. That is about how deep her logic goes and that logic is the root logic of conservatism in all its historical forms. It was the logic of conservatism when it was in favor of mercantilism and it is the logic of conservatism nowadays when it favors free markets.

Again. I wouldn't call it that if the logic was well developed, but it was not. Negative consequences of the technology were NEVER presented in the show. Especially for the Sansa.

>>159225355
>yet they were perceived as danger in their own time. every advancement has come with people screaming how this new item would steal what makes us human or cause endless effects. until people had time to try there is no way of knowing if the talk is in the "vaccination causes autism" or a legit concern. you have not held a nonmisheim so you don't really have any way of knowing how easy it would be to turn to evil
I'm not sure where you are going with this, but if you're meaning to conflate an infinite power source and time/space manipulator with railways and cellphones because in the past people have different opinions on something then I don't know what to say to you.

>IMHO "zero kara hajimeru mahou" did this moral a lot better
Cool opinion.

>>159225814
>I'm not sure where you are going with this, but if you're meaning to conflate an infinite power source and time/space manipulator with railways and cellphones because in the past people have different opinions on something then I don't know what to say to you.
Im trying to say that humans adapt to new conditions. There is never the "right" time or "natural" time for phones or infinite power. times change, they could have worked out a deal. The usual "if we don't take it then someone else will" kept poping up so it turned out that one of the negotiators has been an anisotropic all along so they could now chose isolationism till the time it was convenient to them.

>>159225814
But this is not her logic. The female lead says that so far "human development" has always been "natural" and it should stay "natural" and the alien technology is bad because it is "not natural". By her logic, if humans were to develop infinite energy on their own, it would be fine, and it would somehow be "natural" in the same sense as a jellyfish's evolution.

Moreover, what was wrong with the Sansa? Nobody even suggested possible negative consequences for it at any point and it was eliminated as well.

>>159225794
>And so? You can negotiate those by finding middle grounds
Negotiation on succeed when both party are willing to.
If zaShunina won't compromise to get his anisotropic companion asap, then there is nothing Shindo can do.

>But why does it not show them? The conflict these technologies would cause would lead to more conflicts much better suited for a team of negotiators than the ones we do see in the show and wouldn't have required superpowered daughter to be solved.
Same as above, I don't think you quite get how much gap there is between humanity and anisotropic beings, if they don't have a stake as much as they had with the daughter then negotiations are not possible to begin with.

>And the writer's agenda in this tory was creating an antagonist that couldn't be reasoned with. And that is because he was created as a strawman to be burned.
Well I can't change how one interpret something entirely, it is your prerogative to assume what the writer was thinking when he writes the story. But I can tell you that from the perspective of the anisotropic beings, it is only natural that zaShunina acts the way he acts. The writer didn't add in an unexpected element to the setting to change how behave. In fact, it would have been so if zaShunina as a being that lives more than a billion years suddenly cares about mortality and what not.

>is the female lead's logic for cutting off the anisotropic, which is more or less presented as the logic of the show
>>to disable the gifts out of responsibility to prevent a preventable potential disaster or whether she believed that humans would be better of to reach that level of technology by themselves

>Things are better the way they are because that is the way they have always been
Again, it is your choice and how to interpret this. But dismissing there are other interpretation is just dishonest.

>>159226278
>If zaShunina won't compromise to get his anisotropic companion asap, then there is nothing Shindo can do.
Shindo wasn't willing to compromise either.

>>159225794
>Negative consequences of the technology were NEVER presented in the show. Especially for the Sansa.
The show does present it in a subtle manner, if you pay attention to the soundtrack/atmosphere when the gifts are being showcased to the masses, you'd notice. In fact, you'd have to be naive that those kind of 'gifts' would not cause a potentially disastrous effects to the society.

>>159226247
>Moreover, what was wrong with the Sansa?
may lead to dysmorphia or depression but not much else. There maybe a social issue of more work hours.
>"natural"
this. all the historical bad shit is fine because it came about naturally, it all has to go as it has gone for that special flavor

Wow what a trainwreck this show was. I would not have been opposed to a "to be continued" ending instead of the one I just watched. So much potential but not enough time it seems like.

and it literally ended with a deus ex machina.

>>159226319
What could Shindo compromise about though?

The anisotropic were not willing to wait and risk humanity's overall existence. They were dead set on ascending 1+ humans as soon as possible, even if that meant the rest of the race died.

Shindo could of said, "give us more time to reach the anisotropic by ourselves" and they'd go "no". ZaShunina would say no harder because he wanted to bring Shindo in particular.

This show is like cream, but replace the corporations with the hippie and sex

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0UgiJPnwtQU

>>159226459
it was clear that other anisotropic's had no real will in this case and ZaShunina's insistence was born of misunderstanding. This is common in mediation, after all if it was clear cut there would be no need for mediators

>>159226459
>What could Shindo compromise about though?
Maybe just accepting zaShu's offer to go with him on the condition he leave the rest of humanity out of it? There is no doubt in my mind that zaShu would have accepted those terms. It was selfish of him to refuse (especially since dying was apparently part of his gambit), when he could have saved literally everyone (including himself) by putting the needs of the entire world before himself.

>>159226028
>>159226247
>There is never the "right" time or "natural" time for phones or infinite power
Infinite power or time/space manipulator poses an astronomically different drawbacks than phones. Infinite power results in infinite and uncontrollable amount of heat energy as most electrical appliances converts excess energy to heat. I wouldn't even have to give example to a time/space manipulators.

>natural argument
The natural argument is not as arbitrary as you think/presented.
A natural development means there is no one responsible for the possible negative effects.

>>159226278
>Negotiation on succeed when both party are willing to.
>If zaShunina won't compromise to get his anisotropic companion asap, then there is nothing Shindo can do.
Then why put a fucking "master negotiator" in the lead role?

>Same as above, I don't think you quite get how much gap there is between humanity and anisotropic beings, if they don't have a stake as much as they had with the daughter then negotiations are not possible to begin with.
>Well I can't change how one interpret something entirely, it is your prerogative to assume what the writer was thinking when he writes the story. But I can tell you that from the perspective of the anisotropic beings, it is only natural that zaShunina acts the way he acts.
But we know he is acting weird because it turns out that anisotropic beings have been interested in Earth for millions of years and sent probes to collect data, but he is the first to intervene. He himself admits being a "weird one".

>The writer didn't add in an unexpected element to the setting to change how behave. In fact, it would have been so if zaShunina as a being that lives more than a billion years suddenly cares about mortality and what not.
The author has control over everything added to the setting unless he is writing a biographical/historical novel.

>to disable the gifts out of responsibility to prevent a preventable potential disaster or whether she believed that humans would be better of to reach that level of technology by themselves
The author didn't choose to have her tour us through an episode that showed us the way in which achieving things through hard work mattered to improving spiritually or something like that. The author DID choose to have her tell us about how cool outdated traditions are and somehow compare an animal's evolution process through chance with humanity's technological progress through the scientific method

>>159226459
Perhaps turn the tables on the Anisotropic by introducing the child instead of using her to kill/remove the Anisotropic. To the Anisotropic, the child would resemble a sort of new technology and advancement for both Humanity and the Anisotropic which seems to be the "right answer".

Since the child is literally more powerful than the Anisotropic she would probably control the entire situation, just like zaShun in the beginning.

>>159226620
zaShu backed of when it became clear that Shindo would stop being shindo even if it worked. also there is like 0. chance of it working.

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>be a shitty merlin copy
>get your ass kicked
aayyy

>>159226630
>A natural development means there is no one responsible for the possible negative effects.
is that not cowards? also you can often trace back the negative effects to the person that made them and in many cases you can't say that zeitgeist was pushing for it so someone else would have made it.

>>159226738
>Shindo would stop being shindo even if it worked.
Only if he did it by force.
>there is like 0. chance of it working.
If anyone could make it through the transition, it would be Shindo. Probably Shinawa, too. They're more aligned to the anisotropic than anyone else.

>>159226643
>Then why put a fucking "master negotiator" in the lead role
Shindo was negotiating for ZaShunina.
Tsukai was negotiating for humanity/japan.

>But we know he is acting weird because it turns out that anisotropic beings have been interested in Earth for millions of years and sent probes to collect data, but he is the first to intervene
Well yes, without that event then there will be no show to begin with.

>The author has control over everything
True, but the author are still restricted to common sense and natural progression of plot and character.

>ell us about how cool outdated traditions are and somehow compare an animal's evolution process through chance with humanity's technological progress through the scientific method
Again it is your prerogative to interpret the episode however you want.

>>159226812
>is that not cowards
It could be? I am not the one to judge that.

>you can often trace back the negative effects
>someone else would have made it.
Sure, Saraka and co just doesn't want to be that person.

>>159226613
Wrong. All that was stated was that naturalism wasn't completely uncommon in the anisotropic (just an eccentric one). ZaShunina is still, based off his resources, acting as the "official" stance of Novo here.

>>159226620
>Maybe just accepting zaShu's offer to go with him on the condition he leave the rest of humanity out of it?
This was never an option. It was stated multiple times that the majority of humans would be destroyed to ensure the process of ascending a human was created successfully. Shindo agreeing to go by himself would literally be saying "hey, leave me for last so I survive". And even then, zaShunina decided ansiotropic Shindo wouldn't be the same as human Shindo, and didn't want that.

>>159226660
This I could see. The daughter deus ex machina could of been used as a deterrant and forceful way to ensure non-genocidal cooperation. Instead she only shows up after he dies. Probably just bad/gimmicky writing.

>>159226660
but why is the child more powerful and why would it care to be involved in this situation?

>>159213709
>Anime original

Not even once

>>159227283
>Instead she only shows up after he dies
She literally kills zaShun or demonstrates that she is more powerful than the Anisotropic Beings. She even says she has a greater understanding of this Universe and the Anistropic and even zaShun, I believe, acknowledges this.

Instead she shows up, removes zaShun/everything Anisotropic because her "mother" asked her too, and then disappears. Hanamori is more of a parent.

>>159227623
>why is the child more powerful
because she claims to have "a greater understanding of the Anistropic and the Universe" and mostly because of plot reasons.

>>why would it care to be involved in this situation?
Just another plot hole to hand-wave away. or maybe instill some sort of humanity in her through Hanamori. (This would be how I hand-wave it.)

>>159226988
They are not that person. humanity had a choice on accepting or not. you could argue that more disclosure was needed and many other peoples opinions should have been consider(which does not happen in rl when advancement comes knocking) but she just took their choice. hell going back to the negotiation I expected her to argue on behalf of humanity, instead of Shindo turning on his client

>>159226834
>If anyone could make it
That is just having faith in protag powers. Shindo's rep is played up but he has not really shown himself to be special beyond being composed

>>159226854
>still restricted
a good author. The "kid grown in a time sphere" author is not bound by anything
>>159226988
>I am not the one to judge that.
Why not?

>>159227283
>The daughter deus ex machina could of been used as a deterrant and forceful way to ensure non-genocidal cooperation.
so in the end the one with the biggest gun makes the rules? not very hopeful

>>159225750
>seinenfags
shallow pseudo-intellects
fify

>>159227818
>mostly because of plot reasons.
That is the only explanation. It makes no logical sense for breeding with a lesser being to make a better being than yourself, unless she is some crystallized final stage of humanity

>>159227827
>They are not that person. humanity had a choice on accepting or not
She had the choice and means to disable the gifts therefore preventing the preventable potential disasters.

>you could argue that more disclosure was needed and many other peoples opinions should have been consider
It is irresponsible to have the public choose the possibility of a time/space manipulator or infinite power.
What the individual chose has external effect outside of that individual. And that effect is not always a positive one.

>>159227818
>humanity
I think it has become clear that humanity is not compatible with the greater understanding of the Anistropic and the Universe. she can't have both

>>159222389

Hey, i mean, if you started from episode 0 you had way different expectations...

Still, i do agreed with the shallow pseudo-science, but thats the part i most liked about it.

>159222002
I like this idea, i guess its left open ended but it makes sense.

I just saw it and I'm sad this is the ending we get. This is Mass Effect God Child levels of bullshit.

>>159228129
>She had the choice
but did she have the right?
>It is irresponsible
you are the one who seems to like a choice where "no one is to blame" well for good or ill it would be the path they chose collectively. maybe those that vote yes could be segregated on another world
>What the individual chose has external effect outside of that individual. And that effect is not always a positive one
no shit, what does that have to do with anything.

Everyone keeps saying that Shindo's negotiation skills didn't play a roll in the ending but his daughter was the comprise between the anisotropic and humanity, between artificial advancement and natural advancement.
At least that's how I see it.

>>159228129
>What the individual chose has external effect outside of that individual. And that effect is not always a positive one.
are you implying she did not make that choice as an individual?

>>159213709
I haven't had the time to watch it. So they did really kill him, eh? Was it in a true shounen fashion? Called it.

Seriously, what a horrendous series. I was hoping to read know but never again am I going to sit through another nonsense where the author writes himself into the fucking corner and has to bullshit his way to the ending because he can't solve his own writing. For an established author he is incredibly naive about political, economic and developmental issues. It's really mind boggling.

>>159228096
>It makes no logical sense
It's logical in a setting where humanity is prized by the Anistropic for its singularity and mysterious miracles

>>159227963
>a good author. The "kid grown in a time sphere" author is not bound by anything
Well, I can't answer to your arbitrary standard of fiction writing. But the infinite power through balls and the immaterial cubes isn't any better of a writing than kid in a time sphere.

>why not
I wouldn't begin to know the feeling of responsibility when I could've prevented a potential disaster.
I don't know about you though. If you are confident you are able to judge that, then go ahead.

>>159228301
The fight was more magical girl in fashion but the death scene is truly shonen.

>>159228240
His daughter is an asspull abomination that seems like worse than what humanity would be with the gifts. the "comprise", is that he made someone above anisotropic and they now have something to amuse themselves with while humanity gets to stay the shithole it is.clearly there is a sacrifice made here by Shindo, his friend and Shindo wronging his kid which seems to go against the both parties leave happy idea

>>159228144
>Hey, i mean, if you started from episode 0 you had way different expectations
Just a reminder, the airplane scene started at the end of episode 0.
I was expecting shallow pseudo-science then, and I got shallow pseudo-science by the end.
I was not disappointed.

>>159228132
>she can't have both
Well I'm just going by the show's logic.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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>zaSHUINA, I'VE COME TO BARGAIN!

>>159228240
unless you're implying he got to his "top government negotiator" position by leaving women pregnant everywhere, then no.

but it's intended to be a hopeful compromise between the two species, I'm sure.

>>159213709
What a great display of mediocrity, really fucking wasted potential.

>>159224215
I dont care how experimental it would be, a series where they both become buddies, with Yukika learning the meaning of being human thanks to zaShinina and him learning to understand his human emotions and undestanding that new dimensional level, ending with zaShunina metting Shido again in the end... now that be a great fucking end for them.

>>159228301
>Was it in a true shounen fashion?
noShindo makes him understand but zaShunina is all "If I can't have you no one can" he kills Shindo while crying, he foresaw all his technological tricks because he was the one who gave them wam and knew the professor could come up with anti weapons. zaShunina carries Shindo towards his big altar where they can watch humanity get boosted. suddenly le twist, turns out Shindo, knew that zaShunina knew so his real master plan was to get killed and act as a distraction. while a magic kid he had in a pocket dimension was raised by his best friend to fight zaShunina. the way they kill zaShunina is very sad

>>159228226
>but did she have the right?
As an anisotropic being, then sure. I'm sure she's aware what her actions entails.

>for good or ill it would be the path they chose collectively.
You seem to be implying that humans can respect a choice that would really be controversial.

>maybe those that vote yes could be segregated on another world
Segregation of a large part of the society doesn't leave good things to the ones left behind.

>no shit, what does that have to do with anything
That it is irresponsible to left someone with infinite power or time/space manipulator because they chose to do so.

>>159228364
>its singularity and mysterious miracles
I was under the impression that it was not the case of humanity being special but just being the only ones who developed

>>159228240
I would've been fine with it, if they somehow hinted or foreshadowed this.
We only see how the Anisotropic affect Humanity, we do not see any of Humanity affect the Anistropic other than:
Humanity can be a source of info/pleasure? for the Anisotropic
Anisotropic Beings gain (yandere) emotions (not counting tsukai since she was there since the beginning and grew up as a human (This tangentially touches on how she recognized herself as a reincarnation of an Anisotropic Being in the form of a human/other forms))

Both of which have nothing to do with an Anisotropic Being (who is human in-form) mating with a Human. If they somehow explained more about the bodies the Anistropic Beings are in, like zaShun body, is it fully human? etc. Then they would have had some more leeway to pull shit like this.

>>159228390
>But the infinite power through balls and the immaterial cubes isn't any better of a writing than kid in a time sphere.
It is when those objects are laid out, from the start, as within the rules of the universe being written. The anisotropic concepts were introduced as the foundation of the story. "Hey, this is what's going on here, and here is the explanation for each instance, and here is how it all fits into the confines of what I'm writing."
Yukika's existence absolutely shatters the rules of the universe that were written up till then. Okay, sure, this was intentional on Shindo's part; he wanted something rule-shattering. But to have this complete gamechanger whisk in and blow wide everything we had been told till then, and to have it happen in the last few minutes of the final episode, is bad writing. You don't shit all over the universe you created with no warning and no precedence.
The vague mythological references throughout the show don't count as warning, by the way.

>>159228435
I wasn't expecting hard science fiction.

I was expecting politics and got a magical girl's super punch right in my heart instead.

>>159228277
As an anisotropic being, yes.
I'm sure she's aware what her actions entails.
The same cannot be said to the average human individuals.

>>159228597
>that spoiler

He had a kid raised in a pocket dimension? What the fuck that is hilarious

>>159228390
>Well, I can't answer to your arbitrary standard of fiction writing. But the infinite power through balls and the immaterial cubes isn't any better of a writing than kid in a time sphere.
agreed
>I wouldn't begin to know the feeling of responsibility when I could've prevented a potential disaster.
That is the responsibility we feel everytime we have to pick between security or freedom and what ratio is ok

>>159228581
I'm sorry anon, zaShunina will be redeemed only by having a baby with Yukika.

>>159228683
>expecting politics
Are you implying that the geopolitics they showed in the earlier parts of the show (UN, Japan being likely to share) is anything but shallow?

>>159228434
>asspull
After Shindo and Tsukai's naked encounter did you seriously think a child would not come of it.
>comprise
No need to be a dick I just typed to quickly

>>159228709
>we have to pick between security or freedom
Unfortunately I lived in a country where that choice is chosen for me.

>>159224215
>the new anisotropic being is both apathetic and mildly protective of zaShunina but is too busy dealing with the aftermath of the latter's fiasco to care about him at the moment
>no one except the anisotropic being knows that zaShunina is back
>zaShunina spends most of his days roaming the streets in a human guise
>one day he meets yukika who is trying to fit in a second year high school student but has no friends
>they end up going to a cafe to have a very awkward talk
>ends up being friends
>he eventually brings yukika his living space in the kado of the other anisotropic being and it is covered with messy, frenzied drawings of shindo

>>159228735
I mean in the first episode.

>>159226854
>still restricted to common sense and natural progression of plot and character.
Clearly not, given what we got out of this show.

>>159228690
yes. he impregnated Saraka Tsukai and had Shun Hanamori raise the kid in a pocket dimension where 15-16 year passed while Shindou was prepping his armor

>>159228751
Tsukai is a billion years old 40D anisotropic alien, their mating does not make any sense whatsoever unless she was in her "reincarnated" 100% human body in which case the kid would be human and not 50/50 hybrid with all magical alien powers. this isn't a mahou shoujo show.

seriously on what fucking planet does a perfect hybrid make any sense? this is the best thing they could have come up with?

>>159228825
Episode 0? oh alright then.
I guess I was a bit disappointed as well when the show fails that on me too when it portrays the larger geopolitics.

>totally mindbreak and destroy him
>"he wasnt that bad a guy"

classic

>>159228850
Well you're watching a show with unlimited energy balls out of paper and immaterial cubes. I don't know what else you are expecting other than more of that.

>>159228144
>if you started from episode 0
I was still hoping for negotiations even up until the end. When the Tsukai reveal happened and people started saying that the author was vilifying ZaShunina, I thought they were overreacting.

I was expecting that the compromise would be that ZaShunina would wait until earth goes to the anisotropic themsleves. All he would have to do is set his time to be 1minutes=1billion years and if they still aren't there yet, zap them to the anisotropic. Problem solves, he either lives with new earth or give new old a chance to survive from the death of its planet. He can take Shindo as well, why not he was gonna kill himself anyways.

>>159228915
I guess you're the same person who posted >>159228390 so I'll redirect you to >>159228709
and add a clarification of my point in >>159228915 -- which is that obviously authors aren't "restricted to natural progression of (plot and) character", given the last minute out-of-nowhere shit we were given in Kado.

>>159228779
and that is what Tsukai did. people who do not judge and engage the issue often complain about the results but the truth often is that "wrong vote" and direction of the country can often be traced to general apathy of its people or reluctance to engage. There are always reasons, often understandable but there is still a cause and effect. Tsukai had the power to prevent many "potential disaster" in history but she chose not to move, even in the end she had all the cards, she could have told the kid to do anything and yet this is what she chose and I will judge her for it and I will not agree with it.

>>159228915
>>159229018
Sorry, a clarification of my point in >>159228850

>>159228915
this isn't a point. the author can't be expected to explain how alien devices work. the endless energy ball and immaterial cube are fine because they're supposed to illustrate that the alien technology is simply far beyond human comprehension - almost like magic. the show has tons of problems but that isn't one of them.

>>159228892
Its even better than "nothing personal, kid"

>>159229028
>Tsukai had the power to prevent many "potential disaster" in history but she chose not to move
From the very start it was like this, she should have felt the moral responsibility to educate zaShunina on what it was like to go native.

Has anyone in anime ever been deeper into the friendzone than Hanamori?

>>159228435
True, still, i enjoined the ride.

I do agreed that the endind should have been a negotiation where both parties ended up with what they wanted.

Or maybe it did, and now zaShunina and Shindo are after life bros...

>>159228958
>1minutes=1billion years
>MFW true
>MFW I missed that

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>>159228483
>The flight plan I just filed with the agency lists me, my magical daughter, Dr. Shinawa here but only three dimensions!

>>159229112
That too, she hid her nature until she felt things had gone too far but she could have approached him from day 1, maybe even from the shadows. only reason I could think of was the she feared being destroyed

>>159229176
4D
>>159229119
rakugo?

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>>159228483

>>159229222
So, at best, her cowardice led to zaShunina's destruction, among other tragedies. But, you know, The Right Answer and all.

>>159229289
well yeah but she can't be blamed for that. There are a lot of moments where she fucked up but that was not one of them. also its not like zaShunina did not know the earth would have a keeper, he made 0 effort to look for her

>>159228875
The possibility of breeding with an anisotropic being was brought up before by Shindo's mother. It was foreshadowed.

>>159229028
>>159229112
>>159229222
>>159229289
>people who do not judge and engage the issue often complain about the results but the truth often is that "wrong vote" and direction of the country can often be traced to general apathy of its people or reluctance to engage
Regardless of how valid your statement is, I fail to understand why it is relevant to the discussion. I am not judging as the viewer, not as a character in the series.

>Tsukai had the power to prevent many "potential disaster" in history but she chose not to move
She was there on earth as an observer. It was only when Shindo was nearly killed by zaShunina that she broke her 'promise'.

>even in the end she had all the cards, she could have told the kid to do anything and yet this is what she chose and I will judge her for it and I will not agree with it
Even more so than to prevent disaster, she did what she did to preserve the 'humanity' of humanity. As shown that she did nothing to prevent researchers to continue researching anisotropic after all that events, she believed that humanity would be better of to reach that level of technology by themselves.

>>159229348
I think she can be blamed for it, actually. I'll never not be butthurt that nobody thought to stop and see how being exposed to and absorbing human qualities was affecting zaShunina, and Tsukai was the individual in the best position to do so. This show was all about showcasing and questioning moral responsibility, and her lack of it there is something I see as a huge failing.

>>159229066
And how is a kid growing in a timesphere with a chaperone and all be any different?
Mind that anyone, her parents for example, can visit at any point of time in her growth.

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>>159228733
Papa Hanamori would not agreed

>>159229438
An old woman wanting grandkids is not foreshadowing if one of the parties involved is an anisotropic and far beyond anything human

If someone on the science team made an offhanded remark about alien physiology then that would have been fine

>>159229438
Meant to reply to >>159228672

>>159229438
But nothing was foreshadowed about the hybrid child being some overwhelming hax dimensional supreme being outclassing anything and everything in the show.

>>159229440
You quoted my posts but didn't really address them so I'm not sure whether you wanted to add something to or dispute something in my statements.

To be perfectly honest, I don't get the symbolism behind the opening of this show. Why is zaShunina standing in a forest and why is associated with it if he is unnatural?

>>159229551
I was trying to point the fact
>>Tsukai had the power to prevent many "potential disaster" in history but she chose not to move
>She was there on earth as an observer. It was only when Shindo was nearly killed by zaShunina that she broke her 'promise'.

As you guys have continued the discussion based on a potentially inaccurate premise.

>>159229448
well we did not get to see it even on the human side. I mean if zaShunina can shit out wam and do other magic who is to say he did not brainwash shindo or that all his freed people are not clones or sleeper against, I mean who knows what fucked up shit he could have done before his humanity kicked in but no one questions it outside the box. even the ending, I wonder how many will buy into shindo's story and how many will say there was some accident with the box and zaShunina sacrificed himself to save everyone. a lot of anime have dealt with such situations and its strange that one seemingly focused on it just glanced over it all, its more half assed than gatchaman

>nobody cares about all the clones that died

>>159229589
>She was there on earth as an observer.
she was there as a keeper. none involvement was her choice because each keeper chooses how to manage their cocoon

>>159228813
>zaShunina has become a hikkikomori living right next to Hanamori
>Yukiko tries his best to bring him out
>They form a contract to try and reform him.
>s2 its called "Welcome to the NHtropic"

>>159229589
Even so, you contradict yourself a bit with
>It was only when Shindo was nearly killed by zaShunina that she broke her 'promise'.
>Even more so than to prevent disaster, she did what she did to preserve the 'humanity' of humanity.
Not to mention, ultimately, she didn't need to reveal herself as an anisotropic being in order to measure out zaShunina's mental state and offer him some guidance. Instead of behaving antagonistically toward him (or behind his back) from the get-go, she could have taken the time to ask him what he was feeling and what he thought about things.
Maybe it wouldn't have worked. Maybe the only person he would have ever answered truthfully was Shindo. Maybe the gesture would have been entirely fruitless. But the point is she didn't try in the slightest, and only sought to sway other people away from him.

>>159229521
I never made that point in my post, though. I think you're mistaking me for the other Anon

granted, perfect human/alien hybrid makes absolutely zero sense and I don't think the author understands the traits he gave to his aliens.

>>159229652
Yes, and she 'promise' to herself to act like an observer to that cocoon.
If she was being active and preventing disasters from the start then maybe the dinosaurs wouldn't have to be extinct.

>>159229603
>I mean who knows what fucked up shit he could have done before his humanity kicked in but no one questions it outside the box.
This is because it was made clear to most viewers, and then explicitly stated by staff, that zaShunina arrived as an entirely pure-hearted creature with idealistic intentions and a trusting nature.

>zaShunina makes a demi-pocket universe inside Kado
>lets his clone and a clone of Shindo live together.

>>159229737
>Sims 41D

>>159228011
But that's how it ended anyways. She killed zaShunina and likely acted as a deterrent from the rest of the anisotropic from trying again. She was literally just a big gun created to force the anisotropic to fuck off, whereas she could of been a symbol to say "hey, look at what you can achieve with humanity as it currently exists."

>>159228132
I think her deal was that humanity was a source of absurdly OP information whereas the anisotrpoic were higher dimensional. If you mix those two things, you have higher informational anisotropic beings, above the normal ones. Not the whole "diluted" blood/power thing.

>>159229685
>you contradict yourself a bit with
Can you elaborate a bit?

>But the point is she didn't try in the slightest
Tsukai knows that zaShunina's interest contradicts hers to begin with. She knows he want to bring humanity to the anisotropic and Tsukai doesn't wish for that to happen.

>>159228958
He wanted specifically Shindo to come with him, and he failed to convince him, so he go to the option of "if i cant have you, no one will"
He was gonna take the earth to the anisotropic OUT OF SPITE, even when he already knew forcing them was not "the right answer" his emotions clouded his toughs.

But yeah, i wish the ending would have been one where both parties where happy, like a negotiation... or maybe that was the idea, killing zaShunina was better that living eternity without his Shindo, and maybe he can also be with him in that other dimension.

>>159229729
you have a point. If dinosaurs did not go extinct than there may not be humanity, she chose her path but did not stick with it when it came to extra dimensional, despite it not really being different from any other situation or aliens just rolling in town. she made a change that will have effect lives of billions and then fucked off.

one of my biggest gripes in this show is actually how uninvolved humans are and yet all the talk is about humans staying human. you put this world-changing technology shit into your story but narrative-wise human perspective is nearly worthless. and it's mouthpiece was literally an alien until the show went full shounen.

>>159229736
yes to the viewers but that does not mean all the cynicism or fanaticism on earth had died

>>159229689
>I never made that point in my post
So what is your point?
If your standards can accept unlimited energy balls, then cool. I completely have no problem with that.

>>159229792
>But that's how it ended anyways.
and its a bad ending. doing the same in a different way is not much better

>>159229830
Both of those statements seemed a little at odds--she the catalyst for her intervention was the prevention of a disaster (Shindo's death) and yet her reason for intervening was something that hadn't caused her to intervene up until then? Anyway, in the interest of not being nitpicky, that's not really the important part. Rather, to address the second part of your post, I'll say it's very sad when an allegedly extraordinary negotiator chooses to give up before even trying just because she doesn't agree with the other party.

>>159229903
Still better than what we got. But yes, her not existing would of been ideal.

>>159229835
>she chose her path but did not stick with it when it came to extra dimensional
If so, then she would have intervened the moment zaShunina went to Japan.
Its more likely she couldn't stick with her promise when Shindo is getting killed, which is supposed to be the romance of the story I guess.

>>159229870
Sure, but the first part of your post made it sound like the audience should be questioning whether or not zaShunina was evil.

>>159229864
This. cooking professor does not count

>>159229677
Completely unrelated but I thought it would be quite funny if zaShunina ends up becoming a mangaka somehow.

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>>159228875
>Tsukai is a billion years old 40D anisotropic alien,
I'm not sure how this connects to the point you are making.
One is 3D one is 40D, therefore, they can't mate?

You are limiting genetics too much to "normal" understanding

>>159229929
>extraordinary negotiator chooses to give up before even trying just because she doesn't agree with the other party
Its not just disagreeing, rather being completely contradictory.
But even if she was to negotiate as an anisotropic, then she would have to break her promise of not interfering as an anisotropic.

>>159230041
Negotiators negotiate contradicting opinions, desires, and actions. Come on.
>she would have to break her promise of not interfering as an anisotropic.
Refer back to >>159229685

>>159230030
>You are limiting genetics too much to "normal" understanding

Do you understand what you just wrote?

>>159229546
One scene does not a foreshadow make, however I will concede that I did forget about that.

Although the line and what it actually alluded to both are jokes.

>>159230089
>Negotiators negotiate contradicting opinions, desires, and actions
I think you have a slightly unrealistic opinion to negotiation. Negotiators find middle ground or compromises between multiple interest or agendas. There are logically no common ground between zaShunina's and Tsukai's interest which are accelerating humanity to go to anisotropic and humanity stays being humanity.

>>159229988
Or a Gal Game developer...

>>159230244
Humans who want to be anisotropic become anisotropic, humans who don't want to don't

>>159230244
zashu gives the earth a chance and decides to wait until they naturally progress or break themselves and it takes him a minute of waiting, like that Anon said above

>>159230374
When a large part of humanity goes away to some higher dimensional plane, you can't say there's a won't be anything changed for those who are left behind.

>>159230244
That is fine until you realize that the author decided what zaShunina and what Tsukai wanted and could have easily given them motivations that allowed a common ground to be reached with some effort.

>>159230160
Yes, you just haven't considered the possibilities of such in a scifi setting where multiple dimensions of self entity exists with its concept of Anistropic & information

>>159230244
First of all, what you described as negotiation doesn't contradict what I said, so please don't condescend. Second, I disagree with the idea that there was absolutely zero compromise to be found between the two. Even if that is true, Tsukai didn't bother to check and make sure. There was zero attempt from her side to find any measure of middle ground. Say that's the logical action to take all you want, but it was pointed out earlier in the thread that Tsukai chose not to move. Whatever her reasons were, I'm saying I disagree with it and how it was (and wasn't carried out), I and think it sucked.
>>159230462
So do you want individual choice or not? If someone chooses to stay in the shittier situation, that's on them. Other people shouldn't be held back from progress just because someone isn't ready and doesn't want to deal with being left behind.

>>159230462
But they go by their own choice. If this were to happen and Tsukai fought actively against it then she would be no different than zaShunina at his worst, when he tried to move everyone into the anisotropic by force.

>>159230432
>zashu gives the earth a chance and decides to wait until they naturally progress or break themselves
Well you can only negotiate that as an anisotropic being, in which Tsukai has 'promised' to not interfere as.

>>159230504
>and I think etc
My typos are out in full force tonight.

>>159230462
>large part of humanity
Ok. Make it so only those who really, really wanted to be anisotropic become anisotropic. That 1% would be missed but it would hardly be noticeable after a couple generations

>>159230527
>If this were to happen and Tsukai fought actively against it then she would be no different than zaShunina at his worst,
Tsukai wishes for humanity to keep being humanity.
Whether she would be no different than zaShunina is irrelevant.
Which is why contradicting interests.

>>159230596
What you described happened on the show.

>>159222389
>sci-fi is now pseudo-science
can't make up this shit

>>159229954
no, Im asking why there is not more focus on in story reaction from the common people which is likely to be varied and less cartoony than people picketing near the cube because of the lost view

>>159230599
So what you're saying is that you interpret the story as two literal gods fighting over the control of humanity, with humanity having no choice in the matter?

>>159230244
read a book on mediation. making the parties reevaluate their true interest, avoid sunk cost fallacy,etc is all part of a Negotiators job (which by the way should be unbiased) it may seem like there is no ground but after revaluation a ground could be found.

>>159230626
1% of humans around the globe became anisotropic beings?

>>159230462
who gives a fuck? Why should those humans give up their right to self determination just because it will change things for those who stay? Its the question people deal with anytime they have to leave a village family for the big city or move to a new country

>>159230504
>Whatever her reasons were, I'm saying I disagree with it and how it was (and wasn't carried out), I and think it sucked
If it's that what it boils down then no one can change your mind.

>So do you want individual choice or not
I never implied anywhere in the thread that I am for that. In fact I explicitly said otherwise, since there's no such thing as a truly individual choice since those choices would affect another individual in one way or another.

>If someone chooses to stay in the shittier situation, that's on them. Other people shouldn't be held back from progress just because someone isn't ready and doesn't want to deal with being left behind.
Regardless of the morality or the validity of that statement, it is not in the interest of Tsukai. Therefore she made no effort to negotiate that.

>>159230631
>implying its not
Sci-fi is inherently pseudo-science at its most literal meaning, which is unverifiable scientific claims.

>>159230656
Sure, that is one way to interpret the story if the Shindo character doesn't exist.

>>159230833
And fantasy is pseudo-history because fantasy claims unverifiable things about the Medieval Period. Yes, of course.

>>159230719
>making the parties reevaluate their true interest
Sure, but that is something that cannot be done by Tsukai as a human, she'd need to negotiate as an anisotropic being to gain leverage for the opposition to reevaluate their interest. In which she promised not to interfere as.

>>159230728
The professor, I assumed your 1% figure is just a metaphor for a really low number.

>>159230809
individual choice does not mean it does not effect others.

>>159230809
>I never implied anywhere in the thread that I am for that. In fact I explicitly said otherwise, since there's no such thing as a truly individual choice since those choices would affect another individual in one way or another.
Then what is the point of >>159230462 ?

>Regardless of the morality or the validity of that statement, it is not in the interest of Tsukai. Therefore she made no effort to negotiate that.
Yeah, I understand that, it's made clear and I'm not arguing it. I'm saying all these things are very poor of her and she could have done them differently but chose not to. I'm not arguing her position or questioning her motivation, I'm condemning her (in)actions.

>>159230809
>Regardless of the morality or the validity of that statement, it is not in the interest of Tsukai. Therefore she made no effort to negotiate that.
and that is why she is a shit
>>159230853
I think Tsukai could hold Shindo's character. It would also make her more active

>>159230784
You're missing the point. I was arguing the reason why Tsukai's interest won't be fulfilled by that solution.

>>159230853
I don't understand your point. Shindo's character is largely irrelevant to human perspective. For the majority of the show, Tsukai was pushed as the mouthpiece of human perspective while Shindo was established as the neutral entity who was open to zaShunina's existence.

A friend pointed this out and i kinda agreed altough it could have been show in a better, less flashy way...

"If you take this ending at face value, it seems absolutely ridiculous, but think about the themes and final message this show has been trying to push since ep0. They just decided to show it to us in a flashy way.

It's about how to "advance", how to improve. What is the right answer for advancement. The entire plot/theme of ep0 is basically the layout for ep1 - ep12 - New foreign tech? Not the right answer - Negotiation? Only takes you so far

The solution (the right answer) for both ep0 and ep12 were to make a new generation. I originally thought the show would end with zaYandere somehow merging with Shindo to make a new generation, but this is 200% better and also has the added bonus of more concretely pushing Japan's "plz hab babies" agenda

Also for why zaShunina and Shindo died: They tried Shindo's normal answer, of negotiation, he had some faith it could work. When it didn't the half saiyan kid was the backup plan"

>>159230952
>Then what is the point of
To show that there's no such thing as a truly individual choice since those choices would affect another individual in one way or another.
It might be a poor example in response to >>159230462
But it illustrates my point when he tries to argue from the individual choice point of view.

>I'm condemning her (in)actions
Cool.

>>159230998
her interests are not important and again she seemed ok with letting humanity go until shindo was in danger

>>159230915
Fantasy is both pseudo-history and pseudo-science mind you.

>>159231010
>I don't understand your point.
>>two literal gods fighting over the control of humanity, with humanity having no choice in the matter
Shindo is not a literal god, and he plays a key role in the matter.

>>159231086
I think there's some confusion. Here I was responding to >>159230504 with a question of whether that poster does or doesn't want individual choice (should optional progress be denied just because everyone wouldn't choose it?). Maybe there was a miscommunication starting from there and ending up here. Anyway,
>Cool.
Why did you even jump into or continue the discussion if you have that reaction? It's what I've been doing all along.

>>159231109
>her interest are not important
The base of the argument is why Tsukai won't negotiate with zaShunina in which her interest is paramount to the matter.

>>159231171
Then it becomes the struggle between two gods and a man over the future of humanity? Humanity itself again doesn't come into the play here.

>>159215926
At least Anno don't fuck up shin godzilla.

>>159231193
*Here >>159230504 I was responding to >>159230462
It's time for me to stop quoting posts. Let's not dwell on this muddled part.

>>159231083
>New foreign tech? Not the right answer
says who? in ep 0 they metal workers had no new tech and where going to be forgotten and fired. on a whim Shindo motivated them to develop new metal (which after that they could have sold to anyone)
>Negotiation? Only takes you so far
says who?
in ep 0 Shindo dragged an uninterested party yo the table, promised him money and the guy stayed because of nepotism. negotiation worked fine until zashu was stable.
>make a new generation
So what is this when applied? breeding grounds? globalism? how does this help in interpersonal relationships like with the factory in ep 0

>>159231193
>I think there's some confusion
I'm starting to believe the same way. I don't think you are responding to me based on the content of your post.
Sorry about that.

>>159231126
I don't know how you define sci-fi and pseudo-science but in case of sci-fi it is per definition and naming fiction, something that doesn't claim to be true in the real world, whereas pseudo-science consists of claims that people try to make other people believe they were true.

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>>159229775

>>159231194
if you mean in the end than she could have done in in shindos memory + in the end she has no more power so the real question is why won't her kid negotiate. If we mean in the beginning than she is being unprofessional

>>159231281
>I don't know how you define sci-fi and pseudo-science
The same way that people who said the events on ep 10-12 are unrealistic pseudo-science.
I am merely borrowing their language.

>>159231285
Shit, I meant to make that money ∞

>>159231207
Sure that is one way to interpret the story.

>>159231083
This. I don't agree that it's better, mind you - this shit has one of the most shoddily constructed plots and narrative in my recent memory. But take it as what it is, a 12 episode long speech on the miracle of having babies, and everything will make sense. That's the entire point of the show. There are things that are poorly developed, half-done or just outright dropped for no reason because the entire point was to end it at having a baby.

>>159231340
make it 3.50 or something funny

>>159231372
There is no other way to interpret the story. humanity is too weak to be an active part of the story so like with their missile tests they are just buzzing on the outskirts of it and have to take the word of whomever comes out on top

>>159231324
>her kid negotiate
I don't think a 16 year old kid can negotiate well, but who am I to say about that.

>If we mean in the beginning
In the beginning when she has a 'job' to represent humanity, she works at a different set of interests. She's being professional which is why Wam and Sansa gets to the public hands eventhough she doesn't agree with it.

>>159231386
>This
if that than answer this
>>159231258

>>159231442
Hanamori actually plays a decent role in defeating one of the literal gods. And raising a 16 year old takes resources that the government/humanity would certainly plays a role in.

>>159231442
Also don't forget the red herring armor. Even if it doesn't work it still play a role that enable zaShunina to suspect that Shindo had nothing else but that.

>>159231506
This post is hilarious.

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>>159231083
At least source your info.
it's from reddit

>tfw hanamori

>>159231506
>Hanamori
is one man, just like shindo. We don't know what role he really played. in other words being a mother of a famous general does not mean you contributed to the end of the armies he destroyed
>the government/humanity would certainly plays a role in.
as far as we so the government or humanity did not know the kid existed. The biggest contribution of theirs was the furniture Hanamori bought and whatever dvd's he got her.

>>159231699
Well everyone can't just have a scene where they outsmart the literal gods. How else do you want humanity's role be played in?
Is Shindo as the MC, Shinawa Kanata and co as the armor designer and so on not enough role for humanity?

>>159231470
Episode 0 was the strongest episode. But my point is that the show thinks all of that is irrelevant and has no problem shitting all over itself in favor of baby end. How many subplots were dropped for Tsukai and Shindo to fall in love and fuck? Why do you think so many people feel Tsukai's character is poorly developed? Because the show took 8 episodes discussing things that matter like negotiation and limitless energy (probably the most important thing they've introduced and I think the author legitimately has no idea what the fuck he's writing about) instead of developing her, and then it was time to get to the right answer so they dropped everything they were doing and rushed towards it. The answer was reproduction all along; the show clearly indicated that his daughter is the best end among potential ends for humanity.

>>159231776
more is need, news guys were a good start but they did nothing with them. same with gov, nothing but evacuations. Why did Shindo need to think of the armor, why was not gov already working on it? It often feels like shit does not get moving unless shindo prods someone.

>>159231784
I heard it was supposed to be 2 cour, but got slashed into 1. Not entirely sure though.
What I'm sure is that the author begin writing the story from the baby end, and then wrote the rest.

>>159231784
>The answer was reproduction all along;
That does not really solve anything and is not applicable. it also has that hint of "just let the next gen handle it"

>>159231872
It wasn't trying to solve any of the potential questions presented in the show. That's my point. The show brought a lot of things to the table and just left them there, ending with a happy note and some political miracles.

>>159231872
It does solve what abe would want and probably sponsored in.

>>159231946
well I don't feel very happy and
>The show brought a lot of things to the table and just left them there
is the type of show I hate the most.
>>159231998
I don't think it will make anyone want to have babies. maybe they will be more accepting of foreigners who compliantly abandon their culture but I doubt it (that already seems maxed out) if abe wants more kids he should make a plan for japan to buy up land in africa and otherwise export his people and culture

>>159231845
>Why did Shindo need to think of the armor, why was not gov already working on it
Well wasn't he supposed to be discrete as to not be found out by zaShunina?

>>159232115
>abe wants more kids he should make a plan for japan to buy up land in africa and otherwise export his people and culture
Well good news for you, the Japanese army is currently in progress of doing that if you follow what's been happening with that treaty.

>>159232151
It's not about being discrete, it's about who came up with that idea first.

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>>159222389
>blah blah blah blah come to the anisotropic with me
>no
>zaShunina pulls a sword
>Tsukai is an unforeshadowed magic girl
Okay
>blah blah blah blah blah come to the anisotropic with me
>no
>zaShunina pulls a sword (again)
>Daughter girl is an unforeshadowed super super magical girl than last time
When you are relying on random original characters introduced in the same episode as your finale in order to make the finale work you are literally retarded.

>>159232215
Maybe they are though. The show doesn't expand on that. And unlike the US japan doesn't have a lot of defense funds, so it may not even be considered.

>>159232151
>discrete
How is what he did more discrete that gov lab? its not like zashuna is monitoring them
>>159232200
Japanese "army" is a joke. modern wars are fought with money and culture

>>159232282
Dude the finale is literally the base of the script according to the Nozaki.
He even foreshadowed >lel you guys will never expect the finale

>>159232305
>japan doesn't have a lot of defense funds, so it may not even be considered.
are those funds less that what 1 metal works company can get together? In the state of emergency gov can usually seize property

>>159232385
The nip governemnt didn't even consider spend and make an armor/weapon since they put too much trust on notShindo which said everything was fien.

The same cannot be said to the metal workers that got their info right from Shinfo

Hey look at how Tsukai tried to convince zaShunina first in the car but he dismissed her out of hand for no reason.

>>159232384
I bet it sounded so much better in his head.

>>159232582
Why are you trying to make excuses for her? anyone would dismiss her because he comes off as a technophobic religious nut

>>159232582
Trying to argue with Tsukai is like the equivalent of trying to argue with someone from Tumblr or /pol/ who has lived for a bajillion years.

>>159232627
>technophobic
>loves the modern marvel that is Tokyo
Hmm.
Also
>technophobic
>just argues for a way to introduce that isn't dropping super nukes on all humanity
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

>>159232582
zaShunina is a scum what's news?

Despite what the majority believes, I find the past few episodes as more thought provoking than how it started.

>>159232980
Count me in.
I was about to drop the series if not for the Tsukai reveals.

>>159232582
desu the only thing I remember from that conversation is

>I think you're wrong
>Nope
>:3
>:3

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That wasn't a very fulfilling ending, but watching space girl give space homo a Force suplex was worth it. Such exquisite schadenfreude.

>>159214999
>Even if Shindo's original plan had worked, he still would have been trapped in the isolator for eternity, which isn't a much better fate.
Speaking of which, how did Shindo and Saraka even get out of that isolator themselves? Did I miss something? At one point everyone could enter it, hakase with Hanamori even came to them, and then everybody just left the prison. How? And if they could do it ZaShu could have possibly done it too.

>>159234999
Wasn't that a safe space Saraka had created? I'm sure it was.

>>159234999
>they weren't there in the first place
>zaShu lied through his teeth

>>159215397
They couldn't produce Nanomis-hein from paper like wams, I think they had only one of it.

>>159235070
But ZaShunina said they were in his isolator.

>>159235118
He lied.

>>159235161
For what reason?

>>159235181
Same reason why he doesn't disclose that notShindo is a clone.

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>>159213709
Why did they turn him into some stilted yandere lover when the show wanted to do exactly what he was planning in the end? Tsukai and Shindo are literally the only ones opposing. Could they not find any other way to make Tsukai relevant outside a romance subplot?

>>159235094
There are multiple scenes of people lining up all over the world to use the nanomis heins and in episode 11 a bunch of the Japanese government officials were using it too.

>>159235399
Oh yeah, it's exactly the same, except for the part where humans aren't getting instamulched.

>>159235181
Because he had already seen humanity wasn't ready to go to the anisotropic but wanted to go through with his plan. Not to mention that he couldn't say he had almost killed Shindo and was stopped by Tsukai who had ran away with him. Speaking of which, what exactly did he say when he revealed Tsukai was an anisotropic being? I can't remember.

>>159235433
>was stopped by Tsukai who had ran away with him.
So he wanted to capture them in isolator, but he couldn't? Why is that? And if Saraka could prevent their imprisoning by creating her own safe space, why ZaShunina wouldn't be able to do the same against Shindo's plan to imprison him? Saraka even gave up most of her powers to become human and ZaShu was much more powerful. So he should be able to avoid isolator the same way they did.

>>159235433
That Tsukai was trying to hold back humanity's progress aka the same lies peddled in these threads.

>>159235400
Even if there is more than one it's still not even close to being mass produced from paper like wams.

>>159235493
>lies
Cite them.

>>159235420
>instamulched
I'm referring to before the story went off the rails if you are capable of reading.
What was the point of taking the story down such a stupid route when they could have achieved advancement and entered the anisotropic without the evil yandere and love triangle bullshit plot? The only scientist who understood the tech is gone now.

>>159235472
I wonder if he could though? He probably didn't even know where they were at that point in time, the same way he didn't realise Saraka had created the Yukika space. I don't know. As for his actions in the last episode, let's just say he was being overwhelmed by feelings and leave it at that.

thanks for the spoiler asshole

>>159235566
>the show wanted to do exactly what he was planning in the end
Dishonest, just like all of the zaShunina apologists.

>>159215055
Kemono Friends was AotS. Kado was AotS until the tweest, then the title moved onto Frame Arms Girl. CGI is literally the future.

>>159235732
>no argument
Thanks for the concession.

>>159235790
Kado was one of the best examples of using CGI in the anime, to be honest. Good facial animation and a lot of great scenes specifically oriented to CGI (mostly with/within Kado)

So the author usually starts writing with an ending, right? This probably means that he just wanted to write a super-daughter in a school uniform from the beginning and other thing didn't really matter.

Welp, that was a huge disappointment.