Will Kakarot defeat Jiren the Gray?
Qaoity is imörtant! Thats why did this:
A few years back I made a comment on a TFS abridged episode. This was back when they claimed that the show was non profit at the start of every single episode. I told them that they should tear down that disclaimer because they were obviously profiteering with their gaming channel and their t-shirts. I got like a hundred negative replies from TFS fanboys and surprisingly I got a hate fueled reply from I think it was Kaiserneko (the gay one). It was odd because TFS never freaking replies to youtube comments since they get a million of them. I must have pressed a button. Anyway after I said this they stopped claiming that their show was non-profit.
I can't say how relieved I am that others in this thread are calling out Super for being the complete clusterfuck it is.
Every goddamn episode, some completely unnecessary inconsistency or character-derailing moment is thrown in for shits and giggles. It feels like Toei and/or Toriyama are TRYING to shit on their own series.
Power scaling is all over the damn place, you literally can't even make a solid guess on how strong half the cast is. Piccolo and Frieza get some of the most ridiculous boosts in the entire series. "But if Frieza did it, why can't anyone!?"
Goku becomes a completely unbearable cunt with no personality aside from annoying fight junkie, and suddenly, "muh original japanese goku, not meant to be a hero"
He's always been a flawed dipshit, but in the original manga, he showed plenty of examples of wanting to defend others. Flawed judgement/bad decisions=/=complete apathy
All I want to do is punch DBS Goku in the goddamn face, but he'd probably love that, too.
And that's just the tip of the goddamn iceberg.
It's shit, too. But I'll give it one thing, its characters didn't look like cardboard cutouts in every other shot.
Hey guys I was just wondering, why was Bardock so well received?
I'm blind. Is the GoD with the cone hat here the clown or not? Or is that Sidra?
>U10 is named The Macho Universe
>no one has done an edit like this one but with Gowasu or Rumoosh's head instead
or the loli angel's
I've yet to read Minus. Is it worth it?
Toei has probably forgotten about that.
Was refraining from posting this in a new thread, but old one got archived whilst I was typing it out.
Well the closest to Freeza tier villain is one that I would say would be slightly above Freeza final form, I dunno maybe #16 tier I guess? The power scaling was always kinda weird in DBZ once they got back to Earth because Freeza was a planet busting villain.
Anyway the fight kinda goes with smugpup and side characters going against him first, they all eventually get their shit wrecked with only smugpup standing (who I'd say is at around low SSJ level at that point), a side character is killed off who serves as the main rival character's plot fuelled power up. Smugpup is incapacitated by this point, so the rival character now at around his level (if not above) takes over.
During this time the designated walking senzu bean (who can fight to a degree himself) uses the last of his power to heal smugpup. This leads to Smugpup and his rival (finally) working together, this taking a long time given his rival contributed to the murder of smugpup's father in cold blood.
Being on almost equal terms against the two of them, the main villain of that saga combines himself with this giant obliterate cannon and goes up into orbit in order to take out everyone on the planet.
The way they beat him is smugpup uses an improvised Wan Tan Dan to put all of his energy into his rival, of which the designated tech wizard person takes control of what's left of the cannon on the planet to propel "The Rival" out into orbit where he kicks the villain so hard with the wantandan energy condensed into his foot that his own leg explodes off.
The fights with the next main villain gets even more ridiculous but I really want to refrain from beam struggles, or "EVERYONE LEND ME YOUR ENERGY" techniques. Thanks for your time in reading this autism.
OK, guess I'm giving it a shot.
>The way they beat him is smugpup uses an improvised Wan Tan Dan to put all of his energy into his rival, of which the designated tech wizard person takes control of what's left of the cannon on the planet to propel "The Rival" out into orbit where he kicks the villain so hard with the wantandan energy condensed into his foot that his own leg explodes off.
Your special kind of autism is a fucking treat. Would love to see this animated and in an actual series. It's the right level of retarded and stupid that got me into Dragon Ball in the first place, and would really get me back into Dragon Ball.
Thanks, none of the characters have designs or names yet, they're literally all just "designated story telling roles" for now. Still fleshing it out given I only came up with it yesterday morning. Hope to have everything solidified in a few days if I put my mind to it though.
It's not that "retarded", people should stop overreacting. DBZ had lots of flaws too, the only thing about DBS that is objectively bad is the quality of drawings/animation but in spirit it's pretty faithful to the universe.
Funny how people bitched and called GT trash because of things like 17+17 being able to stand up to SS4. Now 17 fighting on par with SSB after training with poachers in DBS is being fiercely defended.
>Android 17 + Android 17 (with a trenchcoat!)=SS4
>The power-scaling in GT bothered me a lot
>Two Android 17's >= SS4 Goku
>Two Android 17's > SS4
>Extreme power discrepancies, like Super 17's existence and Base Kid Goku being stronger than SS4 Goku at times
>Super 17 >= SS4 Goku
>At least DBS is much more consistent in terms of power-scaling than GT
>Two Android 17's >= SS4 Goku
Nice answer faggot.
Please talk with fucking words and explain why "retarded" is a good description. Also powerlevels are off, but the characters are way more themselves and more interesting than they were in most of the Z period. Tori is GOAT but he completely forgot about some his rules and techniques that Super brought back, not even talking about the characters that basically became useless like Krilin, whereas in Super he had a really nice episode to talk about him, and not just being Goku's dog or a spectator.
>but the characters are way more themselves and more interesting than they were in most of the Z period.
You're joking right?
I give up, maybe you'll stop answering like a retard when you grow up. If you don't want to debate then don't waste people's time and yours. Explain yourselves, because that's what you would like from someone with a contradictory opinion. Maybe not I guess, some fans just want to troll, why the hell do I even bother.
I'd dig up every single one of my old posts explaining why Super's characters have lost all personality and have become husks of their former selves but I'm too tired to at the moment. Either you're new here and have never read my own, or any other anon's grievances in full detail over why the characters in Super are written so incredibly poorly to the point they're unlikable and no fun to watch, or you've been sitting around blissfully unaware of it.
It's not a case of you giving up, it's case of you just insulting others with a conflicting opinions to your own and never arguing your own point across clearly, or with any real substance or grounding.
>It's not a case of you giving up, it's case of you just insulting others with a conflicting opinions
Conflicting opinions themselves are not an insult, and I'm not developping less than people being hateful towards the show. Anyway, about the characters : I feel like most people confuse what the characters were back in Z and what they are supposed to evolve into. Gohan is the perfect example of this. Goku's current "evil" egotistic attitude is also very Goku-like and the way his broken level evolved past the gods affects people around him is a good idea to give something new to the character. Vegeta was always about becoming more "human" after being Goku's ennemy and him caring about his family is part of that.
I don't know, what character do you think is off? (I'll admit the only one I hate in Super is Videl, which turned into a ridiculously bland tolr of mother instead of being a character)
>17 can instantly snatch a controller from a cyborg who's power level is around 3 million, but he cant snatch a controller from some weak frog guy.
I like goku. Hes alway had a big inpact to me. Hes fights, his ways of testing his opponents in combat always looking to being out his best. Im the same way when i play baskerball. I like to see how goog you are so i can get better. Now, i feel that for goku to beat jin he would need more than just kio-ken. But then we see him fighting jin in his base form so im thinking, is that how he start off? Or is he holding back to see the difference is both their power
For one you're going around sinking to people's levels who don't want to bother discussing with you by calling them retarded.
Goku - Turned from guy who likes to fight and know when to dial it down and deal with problems to guy who only likes to fight, fuck the consequences.
spends his time doing everything we don't want in a shonen battle show.
18, Videl - Boring housewives with no personalities anymore.
Chi Chi - Regressed from her character development during the Buu Saga from a more relaxed, more understanding mother back to being insufferable one trick megabitch.
Beerus - Nothing more than a goofy fuckup who interrupts the pacing of every episode. A huge fall from grace from his introduction in Battle of Gods
17 - Apathetic rock. Apparently "becoming mature" means you become an uninteresting idiot.
Future Trunks - Had personality flaws in Z to reduce his Mary Sue status, had a burning prejudice against androids. Now he's just "I'm a nice guy fighting the good fight there's absolutely nothing negative or interesting about me anymore"
Future Mai - The most artificial love story ever, doesn't even mention Future PIlaf or Shu, the comrades of the majority of her life.
Piccolo - Defeatist, gives up against Frost because Goku told him to. Barely gets relevant screen time now.
Goten - Chi Chi's bitch now. Literally doesn't exist now.
Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Chiaotzu - Almost non-existant, Yamcha is just a meme now.
Mr Satan - Literally just doing the same thing from Z, nothing has changed AT ALL but I don't expect it to
I'll move onto the characters that didn't get it as bad but are still flawed for various other reasons in my next post.
Goku was suffering from heart virus before he fought 19 and Super saiyan only made it worse. Goku wasn't fighting at even 1/4th of his real power and Gero was only slightly stronger than 19. Vegeta was only toying with 19 too.
Characters who have gotten it good / not as bad
Bulma - Bulma might not be the slut she was back on Dragon Ball, or the mega bitch she was in Dragon Ball Z, but has become the reliable smooth talker of the group. I still like Bulma.
Vegeta - Probably the character with the most development, the problem I have with Vegeta is that he's developed too much from what made him popular in the first place, leaving him with very little room to progress from here on out.
Kid Trunks - He's grown to be more confident and reliable, and less impulsive, but still has spunk and fire within him. Too bad he's barely relevant.
Buu - One dimensional manchild bubblegum demon remains a one dimensional manchild bubblegum demon
Oolong and Puar - Oolong remains faithful to his old self. Puar gets the scene where he pretends to be Beerus, which I loved.
Super is undoubtedly going in a terrible direction and at this rate I honestly don't see any future in the series.
NONE of the new characters have had ANY real character development, nor have we really developed any proper attachment to them without making headcanons or memeing the fuck out. The fact you're even suggesting that the characters are true to what they were, or implying it's moving in a good direction is something I, and most of the fanbase can and will not agree with.
Even at 1/5th power, Goku is still at a minimum of 30 mil and that's assuming he didn't get a single bit stronger since his fight with Frieza on Namek, which is false. So you can assume he's quite a bit stronger than even that. Vegeta was at roughly the same level. Saying Gero was at 3 mil is really dumb. They're definitely close to 100% Frieza at the very least.
Piccolo beat Gero easily and there is no way he was higher than 2-4 million.
Adding on Krillin at the end - What I've seen of him is decent so far, but he hasn't done anything relevant yet. I still like Krillin as he is right now, and is probably the only character I like more in Super right now.
>Too bad he's barely relevant.
Don't worry he will team up with Future Trunks to defeat Zamasu.
Piccolo has always been strong and always grown quickly. He's no SSJ but with Nail and training with Goku I wouldn't deny Piccolo being a lot stronger than on Namek. There's definitely no way he didn't grow to more than what Goku was at on Namek in his base form in the span of 4 fucking years.
>had a badass theme
>avenges his squad like a boss
>has visions of the future
>tells all the saiyans to go fuck themselves because they don't believe him
>jumps alone and confronts shitloads of soldiers and confronts their leader alone
>even knowing his power he still shittalked him and he died like a boss
What is not to like?
It was pretty obvious that Goku was dying from the SS strain and heart virus while fighting 19, and it was just a game to Vegeta. If Goku had been at even 1/5th strength he would have killed 19 with a single punch.
The heart virus didn't really start kicking in until after he started fighting as a SSJ. If 19 and Gero were only 3 mil, he would have won with his very first hit. Same applies to Vegeta, who was mostly bluffing during his fight. He took some damage and lost a lot of energy but it was worth it.
>best couple never ever
He had to remember chichi.. that bastard
Fuck off, their relationship was built perfectly, when goku comes back as an adult it was perfect, but Toriyama cucked it
I know, it should've
>Manga Zamasu is pretty much like the usual Toriyama villain. Evil to be evil, cocky when ahead, immature child when losing
>Anime Zamasu is so popular because he's very different from the Toriyama style, and actually believes he's the good guy. Even when he goes insane because of his imperfect fusion, he still believes he's the hero
Vegeta was popular because he was the unpredictable hotheaded prideful asshole who fucked things up for the protagonists. His sheer envy at Goku being one step ahead being his motive for even existing was a major part of his character. Almost everyone watching wanted him to slowly see the light and finally fight for the side of good, and to find new meaning in life.
Well it's happened. Hooray.
Ok so now he's a better family man than Kakarot ever was, but where to from here? Is watching a tsundere family man Vegeta more entertaining than what we got from him out of Z? It's not TERRIBLE but I can not say with confidence that it's better than Z's Vegeta,
Vegeta gave him a free hit because he just didnt care. The only way for the Android 19 to be stronger than 3 million is if 19 was actually far stronger than Gero, and Gero was just bluffing about his own power. Piccolo couldn't have been at fucking SS level.
>actually believes he's the good guy.
That's why he taunted Goku with the death of his family? Because good guys act like that right?
>Even when he goes insane because of his imperfect fusion,
Nice headcanon, he was insane from jump street.
>immature child when losing
Funny, since anime Zamasu's main motivation is that he's butthurt about losing to Goku.
So why did it make him bleed? If they're that weak he shouldn't have even bled and Gero would have taken more damage from Goku's punch since his base form is stronger than 3 mil at that point.
I'd wager that 19 and Gero were around or slightly above 100 mil with Gero being weaker than 19 and Piccolo stronger than Gero. Both SSJ Goku and Vegeta being a good amount stronger than the 150 mil SSJ Goku was at on Namek.
>19 and Gero were around or slightly above 100 mil
>piccolo effortlessly beats gero
>piccolo going from 1.2 million to over 100 million without merging or transformations
>base form Piccolo has always been roughly equal to base form Goku without special training
>Piccolo is many many times stronger than his base form after fusing with Nail
>somehow Piccolo being ~100 mil after 4 years of training, 3 of which were with Goku himself, is incomprehensible
I don't have a PhD in mathematics but 3 mil is way too fucking low. You'd have to be a retard to think they're anywhere near that weak.
Gimme a while, will be back in a bit, I have problems with all the new characters too, most of them being lack of development, therefore hard to give a shit about them, or the fact they're intentionally designed to be one-dimensional gimmicks.
>base goku knocks gero off balance
>piccolo says that goku isnt using even a tiny fraction of his real SS power while fighting 19 because super saiyan kicked the heart virus into overdrive and started killing goku
>SS vegeta toys with 19 and never once sees him as a real threat
>piccolo beats gero without even trying
yes it was, don't fool yourself, you know its true, but toriyama went full retard
Because his TV special was better than any DBZ movie and gave insight into Goku's backstory and the Saiyan race, he had a face like Raditz too before they turned him into a generic Goku clone with Superman's parents backstory in Minus.
Oh no. I guess being slightly afflicted made it so he was instantly at 1% of his total power so that the Ginyu-strength Android 19 was able to stomp him into the dirt. Fucking kill yourself.
He's more predctible,u know he wouldn't put his family or the earth on the line anymore to fight strong guys or achieve more power, but he's still has his moments of badassery, i enjoy watching him getting his ass kicked over and over and the coming back stronger everytime
>Manga Zamasu is pretty much like the usual Toriyama villain. Evil to be evil, cocky when ahead, immature child when losing
Reminder that Vegeta is gay for Goku
>Gero and 19 aware of Frieza's strength
>Gero and 19 intended to be the real threat from the future
>Gero and 19 at minimum slightly below tier
>Not factoring in Goku's growth during training for them
>"N-no they CAN'T BE strong"
>Gero and 19 aware of Greeza's strength
No indication of that at all, Gero and 19 didnt even know what Super Saiyan was
>Gero and 19 intended to be the real threat from the future
Gero intended to be far more powerful than Saiyan Saga model Goku and had no data of Namek
Piccolo going from 1.2 million to SS level after training with a bald midget for 3 years is fucking retarded.
>500 million as Super Saiyan
It would fit in with
OK U6, lackluster character designs, already negative points for that, now onto personalities:
Botamo and Magetta - Highly implied to be friends, we have nothing but one trick gimmick ponies right now, with one that just goes toot toot.
Frost - Freeza clone. doesn't even have the fun megalomaniacal personality of Freeza - No development in manga, potential ruined in anime.
Champa - Annoying fat Beerus, not even endearing, just annoying
Vados - Barely says anything, doesn't even get to be a female Whis as a result
Hit - Less personality than anything in Keanu Reeves' acting career. Cool techniques, absolutely dull character.. The stoic silent assassin just doesn't work unless the series revolves around that character. Dragon Ball Super is not that kind of series.
Zamasu / Black - Semi-interesting concept, finally a villain with a slightly deeper (but not well fleshed out) motive. If we have a villain with a deeper motive it needs to be well written and thought out, not "Let's roll with god who has the same thought process as a high school social reject".
The reason I really don't see them as decent villains outside of their meme potential is that the fanbase, for a series like Super, should never have to pseudo-intellectualize on teenage, sociopath tendencies and narcissistic psychology to fill in the gaps in character establishment in a series like Dragon Ball. The world and depth of writing simply does not set up the means for it aesthetically. As wonderful as the original Japanese voice acting for Zamasu and Black were, the characters themselves are so poorly written that it ruined any potential they had in the first place.
Gowasu - barely does anything in the anime, Shin and Gowasu were the two I actually liked more in the manga because they actually participated and did something. Otherwise Gowasu is also just a meme with very little development,
I'll move onto U9 and U11 in my next post.
>getting so defensive about being wrong that you sperg out
I can smell the /v/ on you.
And since when was 100 mil higher than 120 mil, retard? Gero and 19 were far beyond 3 mil. Deal with it.
>Narratively, 19 and 20 were the ones who originally killed everyone in the future
Trunks say that 19 and 20 never appeared in the future, Gero never built 19 and he was killed by 17 and 18 before he could even do anything. Holy fuck nobody here even knows what the fuck they're talking about.
>Anime Zamasu is so popular
His reasoning for doing anything was deeply fucking retarded on every level and he was even less interesting, entertaining and threatening then garlic jr.
As I said, Vegeta isn't in a terrible position in terms of story telling, it's just that far less people will find him interesting now, especially that he's constantly playing second fiddle to Goku.
U9 Rou and Trio de Dangers:
Saturday morning cartoon villains, literally just Dick Rou Dastardly and 3 Mutleys
On a character design perspecitve:
What the fuck is wrong with Bergamo's muscles?
I also hate bipedal digitigrade character designs - standing up on your hind legs like that would put you at risk of toppling forwards constantly unless you moved around on all fours. It looks stupid and its unaesthetic nature fucks me off.
tl;dr one dimensional easily forgettable cackling chucklefucks
U11 - Super Sentai gimmick squad 2.0
Have yet to see more of them, they haven't really had much screentime, and whatever little I see of them I enjoy, but I can't see them really becoming major characters at this point.
With everything I've mentioned and complained about the old characters, there has been a HUGE personality vacuum. This would've been a PERFECT OPPORTUNITY to introduce a new character (or even several) to become major characters who actually have an influence on everyone.
Currently we have nothing of the sort, and we're just left with a void that just keeps growing with nothing to fill it with.
HEY WE HAVE THE FIGHT WITH HI...
Okay the retconned him into being a weak faggot who's basically piccolo but boring...
WHAT ABOUT TOPPO!!
We have a ridiculously over powered 17! oh yeah..no one really ever liked him at all.
Never intended to be any significantly weaker than Frieza. This is Toriyama's MO. Goku's group are stronger because they trained. Gero himself absorbed some of Vegeta's energy.
Even if they were only in the 10 million mark they would be significantly above that from the drink alone.
Let's not forget Gero also sucked Yamcha dry.
In the Jap dub after Piccolo gets drained by Gero, Piccolo says that Gero barely absorbed anything at all because Piccolo was suppressing his power when it happened. That's why Gero was no match for Piccolo even after absorbing his energy. The energy drain didn't alter their power much at all.
I liked 17
I just don't find 17 interesting in the 2 episodes we've seen him in. He's just incredibly boring and poorly written. The only decent thing we have is his status update.
They were ridiculously strong AND they absorbed ki and life force and added it to their own power. They were ridiculously hax.
19 and 20 were supposed to be the type of androids that Trunks(well future gohan till that editor told him to change it)faced in the future.
Think about it. Why in the fuck would he need a goddamned sword? Who in the fuck taught him how to use it and why(yes we can make the case that gohan taught him his sword fighting skills)?
Who was he going to use it against?
Exactly. Ki absorbing androids. Look at his efficient brutal fighting style where he rarely used any ki attacks. How he sliced up frieza then blasted the bits.
Toriyama based the entire android saga on terminator and in the future the world was taken over by ki absorbing super androids with only him and gohan with bulma's technological skill and maybe even the capsule backed army being strong enough and skilled enough to put up any resistance.
That's not what that means at all.
I really hope Toyo uses the artificial humans real names.
Lapis and Lazuli.
>Why in the fuck would he need a goddamn sword
MAYBE BECAUSE PICCOLO TRAINED GOHAN TO USE SWORDS AS A KID?
His point was that Trunks was originally given a sword so he wouldn't have to fight hand to hand with ki absorbing androids. After Mr. T's changes it was just an aspect of his cool factor.
>Energy that he saw was comparable to a Super Saiyan
>REEEEE PICCOLO CAN'T BE STRONG BECAUSE MUH HEADCANONS
>His point was that Trunks was originally given a sword so he wouldn't have to fight hand to hand with ki absorbing androids
That is actually pretty cool. Fuck Torishima for ruining everything.
Yes but why would TRUNKS need a fucking useless sword. Even in the much beloved OVA we never see Gohan teach him a single goddamned sword fighting related technique.
I wish he stuck with the ki absorbing androids. Can you fucking imagine how fucking awesome the fights would have been? Imagine and entire saga where ki use was kept at a minimum and it was a full on martial arts fight wit ki techniques as big and as flashy as the Kamehawave and gallic gun were seen as liabilities and even helped the villians.
Anon, he was Raditz tier in the Saiyan saga after having a power level of 177. It's why he beat (but didn't kill) the Saibaman. After that he trained with King Kai, and went on a training mission
that involved self loathing that a manlet fuck stole his girlfriend which is why he cut his hair like a Saiyan. Unless his training was like the shit he did in filler (lifting weights), he's leagues beyond Raditz and Nappa.
You're literally too focused on Power Levels to understand it is not a show of strength, but a show of something stupid.
That Piccolo kept trying to hit a dangalang that Frieza just did not have.
He served to wound Vegeta's pride afterwards which was nice but I'm glad they finished Cell off relatively quickly after he became Perfect and used him mostly to have Gohan fulfill his character arc.
Smug. Well I'd write him as a happy go lucky character who would playfully banter with his allies, and occasionally his opponents, and intentionally piss the more uptight ones off with his snarkiness and lighthearted nature. He'd play with his opponents in a confident but non-malicious way.
For instance he'd see personality flaws and see potential targets to subtly mock and poke at those flaws "innocently" until they exploded. However if he needed to flip the serious switch, he would, as of which he'd be intently focusing on getting the job done.
His reasoning and motivations were was incredibly simple and easy to believe, you don't need to spend 2 hour long documentaries explaining why ningens are trash from his perpective nor have an evangelion-like character breakdown exlaining his god complex for us to buy it.
>hurr he is like garlic jr because they both wished for inmortality.
Bruh every single thing to do with 17 and 18 outside of the fight between 17 and piccolo was fucking trash. And you know what, those kinds of fights were where toriyama shined and if they kept the ki absorbing future androids we would have seen all kinds of battles like that, with everyone being able to pitch in in their own way.
This isn't even up for debate.
Well, it's cooler and more powerful then the Kamehawave. It's also pretty damned awesome. If you told someone who was watching DBZ for the first time in the Frieza saga Vegeta and Bulma's son from the future who was trained by Gohan in the Demonschool of martial arts would be the one to kill Frieza you'd lose your fucking mind at the awesome implications of it.
Oh yeah, I'm fully aware of that. At this point I have no faith in the writing staff and I have very very low expectations, if any at all. If they haven't been able to make any of their existing characters interesting almost 100 episodes in, when it would've been incredibly easy to do so, I honestly don't see them suddenly pulling a colorful character out of nowhere to fill a hole that desperately needs filling.
At the moment it's really hard to choose. Characters were bland or irritating in both Super and GT. GT had some "bad ideas with no potential", and "decent ideas squandered by a bad series in general", whereas Super has had "pretty decent ideas, every single one having absolutely abysmal execution".
As much as it pains me to say this, but at this current point in time, I'd have to say GT barely wins out even though I hate that series with a passion because at least
The ending was good, even if everything else was an absolute shit show.
I don't like this question because it reminds me of how little faith I have in Super now, and how much I hated GT, and how excited I was for Super in the first place.
You seem to forget a large portion of just HOW BAD GT was, tripfaggot.
It was more than just bad ideas with no potential, it's bad ideas that waste the ability to have potential.
Remember Uub? Trunks? Vegeta? What can you recall about even half of the villains? Super's Vegeta blows even HALF of the characters in GT out of the damn water and you know that. Do you even remember the Space Lemurs? No, because fucking Monaka leaves more of an impact than the Space Lemurs.
But let's not forget one of GT's biggest crimes.
All these years and I'm still mad.
Still so mad.
>His reasoning and motivations were was incredibly simple and easy to believe,
We've moved on.
Or... have we?
No shit, it's pretty hard to express an opinion in these threads without being ignored, called retarded and autistic, or kys without having a strong or stubborn personality, it's obvious why a lot of people would ask him
better than anything in super tbqh famalam
Super dumbed down every character to nothing but their most primitive trait, and the decision to do so is unbelievably vexing and perplexing.
FUCK OFF RETARD, HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THE ORIGINAL DRAGON BALL AT LEAST? OR DBZ FOR FUCK SAKE, GOKU WAS ALWAYS A BATTLE RETARD.
Have you not seen the battle against piccolo in the tenkaichi tournament? where he says a shitload of times that he wants to beat piccolo fair and square to prove that he is the strongest? or when he is considering to let every enemy live just because he might fight them again? holy shit motherfucking kill yourself right fucking now
I love how triggered you ningen get whenever you see comments like that. It's cute.
And that's exactly what bothers me. Didn't Toei do both? Aren't the writers the same? I don't understand why Goku differs so much from the movies. After all, there's a huge difference between the dumb Goku and the mentally retard Goku from Super.
>Have you not seen the battle against piccolo in the tenkaichi tournament?
Tripfagging is stupud on its own, but using your own persona on it is even WORSE.
If people wanted to dox this dude hardcore, they could. Especially since he's admittedly autistic AND a furry. Id love to see his history.
That's because he fucking considers it not a fight to the death, but a tournament fight, of course he is not going to let them die, he wouldn't do that in ANY situation, motherfucking kill yourself, way to ignore all the other parts of that fight too
Not my problem that you are retarded
Some part of me believes that it was partially to do with the 9am Sunday morning slot. But even then that's a completely dumb and unfounded stretch of the imagination to assume they dumbed everything down just because of that.
Kamen Rider Ex-AID airs 1 hour prior and isn't dumbed down just because its main target market is children.
>Either you're new here and have never read my own
This massive level of unwarranted self-importance is disgusting.
I wasn't even arguing exactly about that to begin with. I'm just saying that Goku's personality is very different from Z. Just go re-watch Buu saga, Goku was much more serious there.
I would agree with you but he is seriously one of the only people who spends the time and effort to reply to everyone properly without calling them retarded in fact come to think about it he probably is the only person
Oooh, scathing. Doesn't change the fact that you're as triggered as a landwhale hearing "two genders." You need validation. You can't stand hearing the show put in even the slightest positive light. It pains you on a deep, emotional level and you HAVE to reply to it.
Hook. Line. Sinker.
So? There's no real need for him to be as serious in Super. He was serious for Black since the world was actively at risk but you'd have to be an idiot to think that the universes are going to be erased at the end of this arc.
The current arc? Where he caused the tournament because he didn't know that would happen? To be honest it's not like when Goku fought Majin Vegeta and that energy released Majin Buu right? and he knew that would happen
I reply to everything because I'm shitposter supreme.
He acts pretty much the same as he did for most of DB and the parts of DBZ where he wasn't fighting for his life or the planet.
>b-but he's not because I LIKE being butthurt over nothing
Shit shows should be shit upon. I don't need a reason. Just like Super doesn't
>someone was nice to me, I like nice people
that's a natural and logical reaction, stop acting like 4chan is a place where everyone is a dick because that's what all the cool super secret club kids do
being a shitposter is better than being a super shiteater
Yes, he had other way
>he didn't know buu was strong
He didn't know the universes that lost would get deleted either, he is the same anon, you just want to shit on super
He had other ways to do it instead of fucking fighting him at his same level, we know Goku outclassed him by far, he just wanted to fight Vegeta at his full power, Don't be retarded
Of course he did but that wasn't the sole reason. I'm not saying Super Goku is any different than Z or DB Goku but there are cases where it makes sense for him to be serious. Innocent people being involved is one of them.
You're a tool. You hide behind the claim you're shitposting because you don't want to admit how desperate you are to validate your opinion. How badly it hurts your feelings. You scour through these threads and post your garbage because you want to be "right."
You just keep doing it.
You'll keep doing it for years.
You'll keep doing it over and over and over, because you have to deny how insecure you really are.
How do I know? Because you haven't moved on.
I know, that is why in this arc on super he is doing his best to get the best team, and to prepare himself to beat the tournament, you can clearly see it in the episode where he fights krillin, He is still serious here
Not the person you're replying to, but if there are people coming to 4chan, these threads in particular, just to talk to one person, that is, assuming they are only talking to that one person, then that is an impressive feat by that one person. By any chance are you jealous?
He's not as serious, though. And that's mainly because
Goku and his team will win in the end or he'll tell whoever does win to use the wish to not have the universes erased or just sweet talk Zeno again into not doing it.It's pretty obvious.
Because although the stakes are high, he also wants to fight strong people, he did that with Piccolo, he did that with Frieza, he does it all the time
>A guy known as the God of martial arts
>A superhuman with a third eye who has enough potential to achieve godly power
>Goku's friend who used to compete with him and created one of the most deadly techniques in dragon ball
They are good choices you fucking sperglord
Yeah, but there's no real risk to him because he's confident that he can wiggle out of having the universes erased.
He was a lot let serious with Piccolo than Vegeta or Frieza because he was confident that he was stronger than Piccolo. It's one of the few cases of Goku being genuinely cocky towards someone he'd never fought before.
What the fuck are you talking about? Krillin is probably the strongest among those 3 and pic related is what would fucking happen against any current enemy if Super actually had some logic behind it.
Fuck, I meant to quote >>156462958
But then again, this is what Krillin should be able to do right now, and that is nothing at all against god-level opponents.
Yeah sure black man. I offer you the light of superiority but you wallow in your dark mediocrity. That's why you end up as a slimy purple half of a man. There's off-model and there's literally melting from shit animation, what a sad state of conclusion.
>tripfag who seems to enjoy replying to people who also seem to enjoy his presence
>whiny faggots who derail thread complaining about his presence
Yes, I do believe I clearly see which side is the obnoxious one here, thank you for opening my eyes
just like Black and Zamasu! my chinese cartoons have come to life!
>newfag doesn't know about Blackposting
No, i don't need to be put down
>A tournament where you fight along your team
Did you even watch these episodes? he has really useful things that can help while someone with actual power can push them from the ring, don't be a fucking power level retard that goes
>WHAT THE FUCK HE IS WORTHLESS DIE RIGHT NOW WAAAAAAHHHH
A-are the Ningen dead yet?
B-black told me to hide and i haven't heard from him for a while
>tripfag and avatarfag who has been constantly.infesting threads with his stupid fanfictions, furry fanarts and blogposting for months now
If you clearly don't know what the fuck you are talking about, then it's time to know your place and shut up.
Krillin is only good against human opponents, he isn't even a match for Piccolo, just watch the Bojack movie for example.
Who fucking cares if there's a ringout and it's a team tournament, anyone above SSJ Goku could kill him so fast he wouldn't even notice it.
But hey, who the fuck am I to make those claims. If Toei makes him fight SSB Goku, that must mean Krillin is on par with gods now, amirite?
Hello there Zamasu
I've been protecting the ningen
He became British
If they kill him, they get disqualified and they might even get deleted, and his Taiyoken x100 can blind someone long enough for someone stronger to get them out
>I offer you the light of superiority
That's adorable, Donny.
pssst I actually enjoy his works of fiction, art and posts, what in these threads do you enjoy?
Y-you are protecting them so Black can kill them later... right?
They can throw him off the ring the same way they can kill him.
And who fucking cares about blinding an opponent anymore? Everyone that matters right now should be able to fight just by detecting Ki, the last guy that fell for that was Freeza (or Cell if you want to count filler). Unless they use the same shitty as for Gohan and they can't detect enemies' Ki because of some magical secret.
What's dumb about it? is the Mega Kamehameha dumb?
Hey, do you remember when the Saiyans and the entire frieza army and himself relied on scouters to detect power levels? Yeah me neither, i guess my memory is bad you know? almost as bad as your brain
>I give you superiority but you're mediocre
>And you become ugly, SAD
You're never gonna get that wall built if you're too busy shitposting on 4chan, Mr. President.
Then again you never were in the first place.
>Saiyans and the entire frieza army and himself relied on scouters to detect power levels
And now tell me how many hundreds of episodes ago that was. Did Perfect Cell or Buu have those problems? I don't think so.
You're as retard as Toei's writers if you're defending a character that should be useless fight-wise at this point. And if you're gonna talk about Taiyoken again, just have the entire team carry fucking flash grenades instead.
WHAT? But Black said he would exterminate all the Ningen, something is wrong here, what are you going to do to me?
It was proved that Goten and Trunks are really hot-headed and they still had a lot to learn multiple times, battle experience is something really important, and the three humans that are participating have a long history of combat
Sure, because putting the fate of the planet on them didn't happen at all when Goku teached them fusion. Who cares about experience, Goku defeated Piccolo Daimao as a kid and both of them are fucking Super Saiyans.
I don't understand how Gohan got development in dbz but trunks and goten did not. Trunks was a super saiyan at a younger age in the present and future but they rather put present Trunks to the side because of..krillin and master roshi?
Does anyone have the most current version of the power levels image? It uses manga art, starts at DragonBall and goes all the way to Super Saiyan Rose. I don't think I'd seen one updated with Merged Zamasu or Vegito Blue but if that exists, I'd appreciate it.
Yeah, it was getting too naughty for my standards by the time they brought out the scones. Beyond salvation by the time they sat down to watch a British Sci-Fi series. Fucking disgusting.
This is Super Saiyan Rosay Goku Blagh.
Because Goku had already participated in two tournaments and he spent all his life training, not only Goten and Trunks have grown up in some really peaceful times, but they really skip training a lot, or they are not allowed to train by their mothers, either way the Buu case was special, the earth depended on it and they were the only choice they had, here they need a more tactical choice, they don't need full raw power
Because Gohan was going to be the next MC before Toriyama went "yea nah fuck that lol".
Kid Trunks is getting more development in Super though. Goten is just a lost cause, just forget that he exists.
I'm a poor sighted slowpoke idiot that always wondered what was even that bad about Liquir's here until I actually decided to pay closer attention to the details.
Still not as bad as the fish.
>but they rather put present Trunks to the side
Present Trunks will have his time anon.
As i said before, they don't need raw power, they need strategy, and Roshi knows a shitload of weird powers that can be really helpful in a battle, like the Mafuba, and that one he used on Goku in the Tenkaichi Budokai finals
He has no useful technique
Same, she is just a martial artist who uses slutish behaviour to distract fighters, that won't work on the universe tournament
Too weak, stopped training long ago, not a single useful ability
A bit more powerful but no weapons allowed, he falls short
He has a chance, with his telekinesis he can do some pretty good things, if he has kept his training i might even replace Krillin with him
Everyone in the team is simply better than him, he doesn't has a spot
>Videl or Mr,Satan
This is just pathetic mane, they don't have the strength or the techniques
>fuse with yourself
I've seen enough scifi movies to know that's a bad idea
Hit is pretty powerful, but some fighters will not get thrown outside the ring because they have enough speed to counter the time skip.
Guldo can actually stop time, and freeze some enemies, if he was still alive he would be good enough to be in the team
>second form 1 mil
>third form 1.2 mil
>final 1% 1.5-2 mil
Where did you get those numbers? Those are pretty off comparing most lists.
I'm no power level fag, but 3rd probably doubled his power, and when he transformed for the last time he was probably a few millions above Vegeta.
>double his power
Those numbers make more sense than Goku jumping to 4 million to fight Frieza from one Zenkai, and that's what I believe since no canon numbers after the one million exist.
You're allowed to retcon one thing in Dragonball and what is your choice? For me I'd retcon that the SSJ transformation on Namek Goku did wasn't THE super saiyan transormation Vegeta mentioned before he died.
Retcon SSJ itself as a form that can only be unlocked under extreme circumstances (user has to be a high level of strength, have exhausted all prior energy and reach intense emotional stress to transform).
There, I just fixed Dragon Ball by stopping it from becoming the laser spam fest that it would later become after Namek.
How does it not?
Vegeta killed Cui effortless by only having a power level 6,000 points higher.
SSJ3 isn't actually SSJ3, it's an imperfect form in the vein of SSJ Grades 2 and 3. The real SSJ3 is the design Toriyama rejected that didn't come with a massive mullet and would ideally be a well-integrated part of the story rather than the retarded irrelevance it was in the Boo arc.
If I was to add anything to SSJ I would also state that a person could only use that form once and only once.
Also what if the final villains in Dragonball are the Gods who originally got pissed at humanity for over exerting the balls and cheating death constantly? Shadow Dragons I guess you could say are them but I'd like a similar idea brought into the series.
Vegeta just being handed SSJ offscreen a mere forty chapters after Goku's awesome ascension is the moment where Dragon Ball jumped the shark for me.
It was only redeemed (slightly) by Goten and Trunks making a joke out of the whole concept, which of course pissed off the Ameritards to no end.
That's not how it works though. It always came down to the relative difference in power levels, not the absolute. Vegeta killed Kiwi with ease because he was 33% stronger than Kiwi.
Seriously, Trunks's initial appearance is straight up OC tier, and he's written like an original character at that.
>Freeza comes back, BORG'D at that
>suddenly some teenager with a fucking sword shoes up acting like he's hot shit dices up some of Freeza'a small fry men
>lmao I can go Super Saiyan too
>does a bunch of dumb as hell hand motions and slices up Borg Freeza
>later reveals he's Vegeta and Bulma's som (two characters who had absolutely nothing bringing them together, and Bulma was tied to Yamcha at that) from the future where everyone got rekt by the Borg, except Goku who died of space aids
Seriously, I have to think that after Namek arc finished, Toriyama stole some Japanese's middle schooler fanfiction they sent in the mail to his work department to have come up with this direction after the arc.
It's impossible to tell IMO, I don't think anyone should try to put numbers on Super Saiyan of 100% Freeza>>156458322
I'm just trying to rationalize Goku's zenkai bringing him to Freeza's level.
I'm more accepting of Trunks because even though he's pretty fan fiction-y at least there was an attempt at an actual story.
Vegeta just showing up and being like "I'm a SSJ too" was the nail in the coffin.
I remember shitposting that Black was actually Future Goten on /v/
Zenkai's stopped making sense after Vegeta's nap.
He defeated Jeice who could read his PL, and after his nap he broke Freeza's scouter because of his PL. Was Vegeta hiding his true power while fighting Jeice? I don't think so, but if he was that would mean he would already be higher than Kaioken Goku who was 180k.
>later reveals he's Vegeta and Bulma's som two characters who had absolutely nothing bringing them together
>had absolutely nothing bringing them together
Vegeta and Bulma lived together and Vegeta even respected Bulma's parents. He had Dr.Briefs build him the gravity machine and training equipment.
Which was all quickly established around the time of Trunks's appearance, they had nothing putting them together (which you missed where it said Bulma was tied to Yamcha) beforehand.
Try to remember the context.
>I don't like it that one of the strongest saiyans that ever lived who was pure evil could become SS, something that requires the user to be pure.
>BUT TWO TODDLERS GOING SS FOR NO REASON IS GREAT LOL FUCK AMERICANS BTW
Why are yuropoors always so buttdevastated?
>I don't like it that one of the strongest saiyans that ever lived who was pure evil could become SS, something that requires the user to be pure.
It's not that there is a logical in-universe reason for him to not be able to do it that was contradicted, it's that there was zero build-up to it in the story itself and was completely unearned. Goku's transformation was the culmination of a storyline that arguably started with chapter 195, two and a half years before his transformation. Vegeta just shows up and he's magically a Super Saiyan too. It's horrible writing.
>BUT TWO TODDLERS GOING SS FOR NO REASON IS GREAT LOL FUCK AMERICANS BTW
It is, because it's Toriyama spoofing the serious action sci-fi story Dragon Ball was derailed into with the Cell arc - the arc that is widely considered to be the best among American fans because it's the most "badass." The Boo arc was much needed course correction and a big part of that was making a joke out of what had been so ridiculous in the previous arc.
>widely considered to be the best among American fans
More like widely considered to be the best among Z fans in general.
Buu saga was just a lazy copypaste of Cell Saga plot and characters, just with different appearances and names.