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Mary Sue Saves The Rainforest: The Movie

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Mary Sue Saves The Rainforest: The Movie
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>>152490839
If you kill your enemies they win: the movie

No but really it just felt like kind of a generic Miyazaki film, there's a bland protagonist who has worryingly firm moral convictions, who then proceeds to progress the story with little character development, and then several new plot elements are introduced, and then some incoherent fantastical nonsense happens, and then there is some sort of sacrifice, and then the movie ends. I genuinely don't understand why shit like this and Princess Mononoke are popular. Naoshika's only characterization was "even if you murdered my grandfather, actively want to kill me and my family, and want to destroy my village, I won't kill you because violence is bad, even if it will certainly prevent more violence." And another thing that pissed me off is that I think it's pretty obvious that making the nuke monsters is the morally righteous thing to do, seeing as humanity is under constant threat from a bunch of freakishly large trilobites 24/7, however the only people who want to get rid of them are stupidly evil because of course people who want to get things done always have to be the bad guys.

Miyazaki should have just stuck to his more surrealist-comedy-adventure type movies like Kiki and Spirited Away, because anything else he writes is mostly trash.

At least the action scenes were really good though.
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>>152490839
>>152491293
>he didn't read the manga

Really anon? You can't make this analysis without reading the actual story Miyazaki intended for it.
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>>152491327
>reading

What do you think I'm some kinda fucking nerd?
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>>152491293
>>152491327
The entire message of the series is retarded, though.

>Remember kids, love and respect nature even if it can kill you with poisonous gas!

Steven Universe has the same retarded mindset of "don't hurt anyone, no one evil exists" when you know damn well evil people DO exist and that there are situations that are clearly black and white.

It's ironic because Miyazaki himself is such a massive hypocrite about everything he says. You'd think it's weird that he has such a staunch opinion on not labeling people as either simply good/evil but was perfectly content on seeing the U.S. Government as pieces of shit back in 2003 (which they were, but still).
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>>152490839

She didn't save the rainforest. She saved the Ohmu and theorized that the forest would regrow thousands of years later.

Try watching the movie again.
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>>152491513
>Remember kids, love and respect nature even if it can kill you with poisonous gas!
I'm pretty sure that wasn't the message.
It was something along the lines of coexisting with nature, and understanding how fragile it is paralleling the fragility of humanity.
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I'm still mad about her dress's color changing beween pink and blue in the last part of the movie & how the fuck did no one in the staff notice it? Were they actually retarded?
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>>152491733
>fragility of humanity
because there are giant bugs trying to kill everyone
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>>152491854
You don't understand the Ohmu like I do anon.
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>>152491879
maybe if we just gave godzilla a hug he would stop trying to burn down our cities
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>>152491852
Her dress turned blue from being soaked in the baby ohmu's blood. They show it happening.
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>>152491733

Its not the message because the poisonous gas came about because of humans poisoning the Earth. The trees are spewing poison gas because they're leeching it out of the ground. The whole point of the trees is they are filtering the poison out of the Earth. Then the trees die and turn into poison free top soil.

Its like no one understood a damn thing.
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>>152492138
This

The message is literally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMjQ3hA9mEA
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>>152492138
>Its like no one understood a damn thing.
it's almost like miyazaki's a mediocre writer a good chunk of the time
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>>152492333

>I didn't understand it so it must be bad writing
I'm gonna guess its the opposite. It was written well and it just went over the head of the majority of people.

Note, Nausicaa is hardly my favorite Miyazaki movie. But its really not that hard to understand it.
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>>152492386
>i understood it so it must be good
i couldn't comprehend that in the middle of the princess of a kingdom having everyone join hands in harmony and keep shouting that violence is bad regardless of the context
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>>152492386
Nausicaa was a pretty boring character in it of herself, though.
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>>152492424

I can't comprehend what you're even saying in that post. Use some periods and separate your points.
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>>152492760
I'm gonna guess its the opposite. It was written well and it just went over your head.
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>>152492849
>>152492760

rekt
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>>152490839
Nausicaa is an infuriating movie because it shows that mankind changed the world's climate as well as all the life on the planet. Miyazaki then sprinkles this changed forest with crashed spaceships to show technology is bad.

It's another stupid global warming environmentalist movie. No wonder so many people hate the Nausicaa and miyazaki type anime.
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>>152491660
>>152492684
make way for best character
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>>152493026
>le ebil bitchgirl sociopath
>good character

They were all shitty one-dimensional fucks, don't kid yourself
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>miyazaki makes a movie complaining about air pollution
>miyazaki is obsessed with planes
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>>152493224
>miyazaki is obsessed with planes
I thought that was Anno?
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>>152493448
They are both obsessed with their own rectums
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>>152492849
>>152492961

>repeating someone elses smug point
>samefagging your own post

Wow, this is sad.
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>>152493862
>>samefagging your own post
keep telling yourself that

it's almost like the repetition represented irony or something
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>>152493132
>sociopath
>the one commander in the entire story who actually cared and wept for the soldiers under her command
right
>>
>>152493224

Did you not get that the other empires are continuing to hurt the environment? Their planes are just one of many symbols of that.

While the people in the valley have one little plane and a glider. And don't even want to use the plane.
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>>152493905
>>
>>152493897
I mean, in Miyazaki's eyes she is one because she wanted to use violence to get what she wants.

Oh wait, no, there aren't any villains in the movie. Except when there obviously are villains. Uhh...
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>>152493991
I was talking about the manga
Nausicaa the Movie was quaint at best
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>>152493897
>hurr I'm not a sociopath because I feel bad for the people that die when I tell them to murder and enslave innocent villagers and then continue to antagonize them even when they are nice to me

She was a stupid one dimensional bad guy who deserved a bullet through her think fucking skull.
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>>152494058
you obviously never read the manga, or you would know her brothers, father and the Dorok Empire were ten times worse
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>>152491293
Nausicaa is muddy, but fuck you for trying to drag Mononoke down there with it. It's easily the most balanced man-vs-nature stories Miyazaki has written, shit isn't black-and-white. Lady Iboshi is killing the forest, but saving the women and lepers. Sen stands up for the forest, but she's violent and barbaric. the Forest God is hardly a "god" at all, it cares little for the forest or the animals or anything at all, and just tries to nuke the field when they shoot off its head. It isn't deserving of worship, same with the other "gods" in the movie - they are archaic, their time has passed and nothing can stop that now.

What's important is that we don't lose our connection to the land entirely as we move into the future, and even more so - we don't lose hold of eachother.
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>>152493961

No, I understood your point. I was pointing out it was addressed in the movie and manga.
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>>152494127
>Nausicaa is muddy, but fuck you for trying to drag Mononoke down there with it.
Jesus Christ you people get defense over boring movies that they show in school.
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>>152494201
>No, I understood your point.
no you didn't
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>>152494127
Well said anon.
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>>152494124
>muh backstory can justify all the terrible things a person does

Evil by circumstance and evil by nature are both evil. Can people change? Sure. Is it ever actually worth changing them? 99% of the time, I'd say no, especially when they're pointing guns at you and have killed your family members.
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>>152494127

>Nausicaa is muddy, but fuck you for trying to drag Mononoke down there with it.
Oh god...

Mononokehime is a flawed movie. It has one of the best protagonists of all time stuck in between three different feuding factions. That itself was good. But at the point where all the three factions are fighting each other, the Deer god and Shoguns men suddenly overtake the main storyline, canceling it out. The whole 2 hours and all the storyline of the three different sides becomes pointless because a deer god pulled a dues ex machina. And to make matters worse, Ashitaka has absolutely no reason to like San besides finding her physically attractive. Yet the end of the movie is them pining over the fact that they love each other and can't be together.

It COULD have been a good movie. Instead, its ending ruined it.
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>>152494222

Good argument bro.
>>
>It's another Miyazaki defense force thread

I don't even hate the guy or his films, they're essentially just watered down versions of Disney movies that already exist, but there's nothing wrong with that anyways. But fucking hell, his fans kiss his ass so much, I kinda have to wonder what sort of impact those movies had on you guys.
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>>152494127
>What's important is that we don't lose our connection to the land entirely as we move into the future

That's actually an interesting way to look at it, makes me respect it a bit more. Doesn't make the characters and the story any less boring though, it was still a shitty movie overall, even if the animation and the novelty did make it reasonably entertaining.
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>>152494352
>le Miyazaki is Disney reddit meme

Stop. He's a fucking hack.
>>
Man I love early Miyazaki vehicles
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>>152494352

>Miyazaki is essentially Disney
Oh god, Leonard Maltin has invaded this thread.
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>>152494250
>Evil by circumstance
>following orders on pain of death is evil, m'kay?

>evil by nature
>the one person that actively tries to establish a truce between the two major warring factions

again, I'm not talking about the goddamn movie, read the fucking book
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>>152494291
>best protagonists of all time
You really need to watch/read more shit that isn't anime related.
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>>152494379
>>152494409
This is what I'm talking about.
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>>152494434

Go ahead and provide better examples. That is, if you even understand what Ashitaka's role was.
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>>152494461

>anyone who points out my dumb generalization worships Miyazaki
No, pretty much you're proving that no one on 4chan can have a point without it becoming a defensive war.
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>>152494431
She still killed Nausicaa's grandfather for no real reason and antagonized the village. And she still pointed a gun at the people who saved her life. I don't give a shit about her circumstances, those who deal in death lightly must be punished with death for the good of humanity. Unless she was literally being threatened at gunpoint during the whole invasion of the valley, she has no excuses for acting the way she did.
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>>152494461

I said nothing in defense of Miyazaki. I was just pointing out your stupidity for comparing Miyazaki to Disney. Which is the shit Lasseter and Ebert do all the time. To try and get the general audience to have a reference point. When that reference point is so off its sad. Its like saying Mamoru Oshii is the 'George Lucas of anime'. When there isn't even a single similarity between them except both made SciFi films.
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>>152494558
----->>>152494461
>>
>>152494614
------->>>152494461
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>>152492333
>it's almost like miyazaki's a mediocre writer a good chunk of the time

You'd probably kill to be as inspired and acclaimed as Miyazaki. I'm not saying the man shits gold, but he's certainly a very good writer.
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>>152494560

She was basically acting like a dictator does when they take over a city. Kill the person in charge and set yourself up as the leader with fear tactics. And it worked until something more scary riled up the people (the spores in the valley).

After she lost control and was captured, she expected the people to treat her the same way she treated them. She wasn't dealing out death lightly. She was doing what she thought would control people. And expected to die for it if she lost that control.
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>>152494560
>what is reading comprehension?
>what is English?
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>>152494626
>>152494652

See >>152494321
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>>152494515
The Dude, John Malkovich, Luke Skywalker, Forrest Gump, Han Solo, Walter White, Tony Soprano, Dr. Strangelove, Marge Gunderson.
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>>152494759
>>>reddit
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>>152494786
Congrats on being a shut-in and labeling everything you don't like as Reddit. Watch more shit aside from children's animated films.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=vmoYpJIUWhY
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>>152494759
Dr. Strangelove is not a protagonist.
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>>152494711
>She was doing what she thought would control people

That's great and all but it's not a moral justification. If I'm hungry so I take out a gun and point it at a cashier for their twinkies because I think I can "control" them, that doesn't make it right.

Miyazaki is not a philosopher, he is an artist who thinks he's a philosopher. Don't let him get to you. Obviously good is subjective from an objective point of view, but the only being that could possibly have an objective point of view is God himself (not than I'm a christfag or anything). Just saying, harming people without a real, immediate justification is bad.
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>>152492386
>it just went over the head of the majority of people.
Clearly it wasn't good then, getting a message across clearly is an important part of writing.
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>>152494759

>That is, if you even understand what Ashitaka's role was.
None of the characters you named are anywhere similar to Ashitaka. Or fit in the role he was in. Even Forrest Gump, who is thrown into countless crazy situations and has to deal with people of extreme ideologies, doesn't understand what he's doing. He actively changes people by NOT understating. Ashitaka on the other hand fully understands what is going on around him and tries to change things.

The fact that you named both Luke Skywalker and Han Solo is just insulting. Especially since you claimed I needed to watch more media.
>>
>>152494979

Then why does the majority of movies/books/etc that people say are the best ever feature surreal or existential plots that the majority of people don't understand?

I'm agreeing with you by the way. I'm just pointing out that people love Mononokehime because it seems super deep. You can even argue that a lot of people like Mononokehime because they don't understand it.
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>>152494759

This looks like a shitty 'top 10 protagonists' Youtube list from WatchMojo or something.
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>>152495112
Are we on /tv/? Usually there's only so much pseudo-intellectualism over there.

There's different criteria for people to decide who the best protagonist ever is, you moron. Nerds that don't watch anything outside of anime aren't going to have the same qualifications as people that are actually normal.

I could say that Marge from Fargo is one of the greatest because she isn't some elite warrior with amazing athletic skills or whatever, she's a fucking middle aged cop from Alaska, yet she still essentially saved the day by just being an intelligent kind-hearted person.
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>>152495215
You mean how they look with their top anime protagonist videos?
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>>152492961
>>152493862
AUTISM
>>
>>152494759
>Han Solo
>protagonist
>>
this thread is proof that both miyazaki dickriders and haters are absolute worthless trash

his films are good for the most part but they aren't these masterpieces of cinema, there's objectively better shit out there
>>
>>152495258

>There's different criteria for people to decide who the best protagonist ever is, you moron.
Then it stands to reason someone giving their own opinion of what they think is one of the best protagonists of all time is just that, their opinion. Based on their own experience. You're the one who got mad about it. And its pretty sad that you're now implying anime is the only thing I've seen. Especially when your examples come from movies far more mainstream than Mononokehime.
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>>152495346

>objectively
There's that word again...
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>>152490839
Nausicaa is Miyazaki's self insert.
The one where he becomes a god king and does the one thing he really wants to do: genocide all modern humans and coerce anyone that's left alive into his particular brand of ecofascism.
I've thought this for years and years but only recently found out Oshii used to talk about Myizaki's 'kill all humans' tendencies making it into his works. Now my confirmation bias is off the charts.
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>>152495351
fuck this really IS /tv/
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>>152495441

>gets contradicted with actual points
>fuck! DEFLECTORS AT MAXIMUM!
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>>152495474
>he thinks saying "y-you're sad, s-stop assuming things about me!" is an actual point
this isn't debate class, nerd. miyazaki is trash and so are you. go outside more.
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>>152494732
>What is an argument?
>>
>>152490839
>Mary Sue Saves The Rainforest: The Movie

Objectively Superior To Your Favorite Anime: The Movie.
>>
>>152495164
First of all people think it's hip to get into 2deep4u shit. Second of all look at the "best ever" books and movies, my man. They are not surreal or existential. That's hipster list shit, not mainstream shit.

People, by the way, love Mononokehime because it's fucking weird. That's it.
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>>152494560
In case you still don't get it, the manga diverges heavily from the plot of the film. Kushana doesn't do most of that stuff in the manga and is a completely different, more nuanced character.
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>>152495537

>you need to see more stuff if you think Ashitaka is one of the best
>you name a bunch of American movie and TV characters, two of which aren't protagonists
>wow, what's with all the pseudo intellectual /tv/ talk? Despite you being the one who brought it up
>this really IS /tv/!
Are you okay anon?
>>
Unrelated, but how do people even get to watch Ghibli?
I've been trying to watch mononoke for months now. Shit is just so incredibly dull I always end up just watching anything else. Same with Nausicaa. It's just slow and uninteresting, though I recall liking hotaru no haka and spirited away.
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>>152495351
What does it being mainstream have to do with anything? Whether something is mainstream or not should not effect your judgement.
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>>152494654
I would probably kill myself if I even knew Miyazaki personally, let alone being as "inspired and acclaimed" as he is.

Fucking hell, stop brown-nosing towards a dude who probably hates the fact that you like his shit.
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>>152495611
>Objectively Superior
Hi, Miyazaki.
>>
>>152495112
>understands what is going on around him and tries to change things
>Like 80% of fictional characters since the dawn of time.

I mean I'm not saying Ashitaka is shit or anything, though I don't care much for Ashitaka, but that's not exactly an amazing selling point my man.
>>
>Second of all look at the "best ever" books and movies, my man. They are not surreal or existential.
>2001 A Space Odyssey
>Citizen Kane
>Close Encounters of the Third Kind
>The Wizard of Oz

Literally pulled off the AFI. Shall I go on?
>>
>>152495658
i'm not the dude who's been arguing with you lmao

i think you might just be really mad about someone making fun of your favorite japanese children's film
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>>152495673

>What does it being mainstream have to do with anything?
It has to do with this guys broken counter examples up at >>152494759 coupled with his claim that people need to see more media outside of anime.

I'm not saying mainstream movies are bad or good. I'm pointing out he's stupid for saying people haven't seen enough media, then listing characters that are pretty much mainstream.
>>
>>152495666
Just watch one of their good movies like Porco Rosso or Whisper of the Heart.
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>>152495756

>i think you might just be really mad about someone making fun of your favorite japanese children's film
But no one made fun of Urusei Yatsura Movie 2. We were talking about Mononokehime.
>>
I forgot that /a/ worships Miyazaki like a god and if you say anything bad about him or his films then you're a heretic or something.
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>>152495748
Kubrick's films are objectively better than anything Miyazaki has made.
>>
>Local theater does a Miyazaki originals rerun
>Nausicaa on actual tape from 1984
>Authentic experience my dudes, with shaky screen and black spots
>After the golden field scene, the tape burns
Lew wad
>>
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>>152495866

>I forgot that /a/ worships Miyazaki like a god
Except the Miyazaki hate threads/mistake threads far exceed the positive ones.

>and if you say anything bad about him or his films then you're a heretic or something.
No, its just you feeling trapped because you can't provide substantive examples of why he's bad. Perhaps you need to find a safe zone. I hear Washington DC has a nice bonfire going on tonight for people like you to vent.

No one in this thread is forcing you to love Miyazaki. If anything, this thread has been pointing out a bunch of negatives. Including myself when I basically deconstructed why the ending of Mononokehime killed the movie. But nope, just because I said Ashitaka is a good protagonist stuck in a bad plot, suddenly I'm a Miyazaki worshiper.
>>
>>152495804
That's because he was... insulting you? Like, you didn't think he was serious, did you?
>>
>>152490839
Pic related.
This is how Americans interpret Miyazaki's massage.
>>
>oh sweet a Nausicaa thread
>maybe we can talk about the manga version which I see barely being discussed on /a/
>it's just shitflinging and arguing

>>152495946
Was it the Japanese version or the butchered American version? I've never actually seen the cut-up version they released back then.
>>
>>152495909

And they're also surreal and the general public doesn't understand them.
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>>152495980
So why did you point that out instead of just posting about the fucking manga and not starting more shit?
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>>152495965
They're cartoon movies, anon. Calm down.
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>>152496007

>They're cartoon movies, anon. Calm down.
Then take your own advice.
>>
>>152496044
I just showed up to this thread, dude.

I think you need to call it a night. You're waaaaay to passionate about this stuff.
>>
>>152496002

What's the point? I'm gonna post something that I think is great about the manga and it'll just get shat on, but I'll humor you.

From what I can see here
>>152491733
>>152492138
I think people interpret the ending of the manga much more positive than I would. As far as I could gather, since the surviving humans are actually genetically modified to be able to somewhat coexist next to the poison forests, but die violently when breathing the clean air of the purified lands, humanity will eventually go extinct when the earth has been cleansed. This could still be seen as a positive, as the "blight of humanity" will be fully removed and can't ruin the planet again, but it also punishes them for the sins of their ancestors.

At least personally I think the ending is really depressing, knowing that you will all die out sooner or later, as the land becomes clean and you are unable to actually live a life without poison as you hoped.
>>
>>152496104

>since the surviving humans are actually genetically modified to be able to somewhat coexist next to the poison forests, but die violently when breathing the clean air of the purified lands
Pretty sure the purified lands air is the poisonous part. And as Nausicaa found out, underneath the trees its clean of poison. But in the forest above, its poisonous.

And the air in the Valley is clean. They're not able to live close to the trees.
>>
>>152495965

Fucking Miyazaki worshiper.
>>
>>152496206
Miyazaki is essentially the Japanese Kanye but instead of his fans being black kids from the projects, they're white kids who live in basements.
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>>152495980
It was actually the french version. Which is probably the japanese version because I don't remember any scenes cut from the DVD.
The butchered version was called La princesse des étoiles / the Star Princess, which doesn't make any fucking sense.
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>>152490839
>It's an /a/ is contrarian episode
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>>152491513
Are you seriously compairing Nausicaä with Steven Universe?
>>
>>152496182

That's the movie version, in the manga it is revealed in thr holy city that humans genetically engineered themselves after the war to be able to endure the poison but sacrifice their ability to breathe clean air
>>
>>152491513
>>It's ironic because Miyazaki himself is such a massive hypocrite about everything he says. You'd think it's weird that he has such a staunch opinion on not labeling people as either simply good/evil but was perfectly content on seeing the U.S. Government as pieces of shit back in 2003 (which they were, but still).

The really ironic thing is that if it had been Obama to have done it you know he would be praising him as some hero for bringing peace to the middle east.
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>>152490839

You posted the wrong movie.
>>
>>152494979
>getting a message across clearly

It's difficult when a majority of the audience happens to perverted retards only interested in certain kinds of anime to begin with.
>>
File: Laputa.jpg (50KB, 599x321px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Laputa.jpg
50KB, 599x321px
well I liked laputa and there's nothing you can say to change my mind
>>
File: Selm.jpg (42KB, 336x261px) Image search: [iqdb] [SauceNao] [Google]
Selm.jpg
42KB, 336x261px
Best boy

Asbelfags can fuck off
>>
>>152491513
>>>/co/
>>
>>152493448
Anno is obsessed with rotating tank turrets and Ultramen. Miyazaki has flying and aircraft in almost all of his movies
>>
>>152498734
That's fine, Kiki and Laputa are the only good Miyazaki movies.
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