What's the difference between 'grimdark'

>>152278880
Edgy is everything dark that I don't like.

It's "edgy" if it's good and people actually like it

Everyone says "edgy this", "edge that"... but edge of what?
I still don't understand the choice of word for the term.

>>152278880
Grimdark is the word that was made up specifically to mean what "edgy" was hijacked by 4chan to mean, except grimdark was not an insult.
In other words: If you are trying to describe a story that you like you use grimdark.
If you are trying to describe a story that you don't like you can use edgy.

Careful, outside of 4chan edgy also has a different definition that you should be aware of before you confuse people.

>>152278880
Grimdark is more of a setting thing, a series can be grimdark without being edgy, edgy is the failed attemp at making a series or character "mature" or use violence for the sake of shock value (by exagerate it's usage) instead as part of the plot

I'd say edgy is more kind of teenage angsty I hate the world Linkin Park Crawling arrogant and insolent sort of thing.

Grimdark is more Game of Thrones; over the top violence and brutality. The tv series manages it better than the books though, tones a lot of the excess brutality down.

>>152278880

Depends on the audience.

>>152278880
pls remind me the title of the show you posted, OP.
I can't find it in my backlog and I think it's the time to finally watch it.

>>152281215
Now and Then, Here and There.

>>152281215
Learn how to reverse image search.

>>152281215
Now and then, here and there

Or something like that.

Fuck this show, sara deserved better

File: 1228873470023.jpg (2MB, 1600x1200px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1600x1200px

>>152278880
It's all about presentation. You could have a light SoL comedy with a grim dark setting. But if you want it to be edgy, you need to direct the it at the audience.

>titus burning bodies in the background
Do you smell that?
What, the bodies?
No...someone farted, fuck you titus!
Buuuulshit, I bet you accidentally pierced the guys intestines
Fuck that, I'm all above the shoulders
Don't give me that, I seen you stab a guy in the groin!

VS

>titus burning bodies in the background
Ugh, can you smell that?
Yes, it must be a leaking intestine. When you eviscerated one of those bastards, the cut must have opened his gut.
That's the smell of death, not very sweet is it?
Don't get emotional on me, killing isn't fun, we kill because we have to.
Didn't you stab one of them in the nuts?
He was a rapist, he deserved it.

>>152278880

A high school setting can be edgy but hardly can be grimdark.

If a series is edgy, the characters are "cold" and "dark" without any reason besides seeming mature, and pretend their world is shit.

If a series is Grimdark, the world is shit and the characters have reasons to be so dark, but those reasons can be stupid (and sometimes you can argue the world wouldn't be so shit if they weren't all assholes).

Grimdark can be actually good written, while Edgy is a failed attempt from the beggining.

>>152280820

This guy understands it, teenage angsty is the ultimate form of edgy, but not the only one.

>>152281395
had not there been people like you the world would be a better place.

>>152278880
Grimdark is to describe a setting.
Edgy is to describe a character.

>>152281390
>>152281416
Don't spoonfeed faggots who don't even try to get an answer by their own effort.

>>152281489
Learn English.

>>152281511
Wew fgt

Show is worth a watch, if to puss anyone off even. So yeah.

>>152281614
>Show is worth a watch,
And he would have found the title with just a few clicks in a matter of seconds if you had but given him the opportunity.

>>152279007

I'm supposing English isn't your first language. It's kind of one of those words native speakers will inherently get although the explanation is sort of convoluted... basically it's meant to relate to the edge of a weapon, which invokes thoughts of violence and animosity. This thought/feeling translates into the 'edgy' label which can be used to refer to anyone or anything that tries to bring about a similar feeling. On 4chan it went a little beyond that and straight into irony so now it's usually used in an expression of mockery to describe the attributes of 'edgy' in an extreme or poorly done sense. I hope that makes it a little more clear to you.

>>152279020
the term 'grimdark' is an insult in a way. It's always been used to make fun of how retarded the setting of Warhammer 40k really is.

>>152281689
>On 4chan it went a little beyond that
No, that's what 4chan came up with.
The original definition is quite different.

File: Tapped_Out_Unlock_Kang.png (21KB, 242x400px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 242x400px

NO ABORTIONS FOR ANYONE

>>152281845
Stupid but funny. Damn you

>>152278880
Actual quality, in both art and writing.

>>152278880
edgy is a buzzword for dark stuff that I don't like

File: 1453730800079.jpg (39KB, 500x214px) Image search: [Google]

39KB, 500x214px

>>152281554
Could you post some resources? Thanks in advance.

>>152278880
What is the difference between drama and forced drama?

>>152281946
I learned English by reading anime subtitles.

>>152281416
>>152281390
Jesus christ. Neo-/a/.

Do him a favor and fucking hold his hand through everything why don't you?

>>152281930
This, unless something is completely moeshit then someone is going to call it edgy

File: 58018.jpg (30KB, 225x350px) Image search: [Google]

30KB, 225x350px

>completely shit on one character for the entire show
>"lmao just keep ur chin up ganbatte :)"

god damn i hated that little faggot

nabuca made up for it though

>>152282105
Don't use emoticons on /a/.

File: 1462108658016.png (860KB, 841x720px) Image search: [Google]

860KB, 841x720px

>>152282041
There's no need to be upset.

>>152281489
had everyone been like you, no one would ever learn how to do things on their own and we'd all be weak lazy moronic apologists. Look up some learning theory sometime about retention based on being spoonfed the answer as opposed to just pointing them in the right direction to find it themselves.

Spoiler: If they never learn to find it themselves they will always ask to be spoonfed. Good job you've destroying society.

>>152282124
sorry ಥ_ಥ

Gen Urobuchi is edgy; the bad kind too.

>>152282341
Dumb frogposter.

File: 1462237330166.jpg (279KB, 568x489px) Image search: [Google]

279KB, 568x489px

>>152282196
There's literally no difference between asking an anon and asking google.
Well, there's one. The latter option usually takes more time.

File: 1369835499633.png (65KB, 1127x221px) Image search: [Google]

65KB, 1127x221px

>>152281434
I am compelled ineluctably to question you about the content of this image.

>>152282460
>The latter option usually takes more time.
No, it doesn't.
It's also a matter of self reliance, and following board rules.

Grimdark is edge turned up to 11, it can be used comically but this right here is an example of late 90's edge at it's worst.

Edgy has no comedic relief to the point where you think they're just trying to top themselves over and over.

Grimdark has seriously twisted shit...but it might not be at the forefront at all times.

>>152282522
Well, for you it certainly doesn't because no one wants to help dicks.

>>152282675
The time between the original question and the answer was over 5 minutes.
If you can't manage to press 3 buttons within 5 minutes, you may be actually no-meme, seriously retarded.

>>152278880
They're both used as derogative terms.

Edgy is used to describe something that is trying too hard to be cool by using elements usually considered "mature" or "serious" by a teenage audience, like curses, rape, torture, violence in general etc. If it's badly done to the point of being almost or outright funny it's edgy.

Grimdark describes a setting that is basically extremely dark, violent, with no glimpse of hope, but is not necessarily trying to be cool. The term is used to make fun of how unrealistic such a setting actually is, but unlike something that is "edgy", a grimdark setting is not necessarily ridiculous to the point of being funny.

>>152282041
>>152282196
>implying WE are society

Get a life you fuck.

If i like something, and someone asks about that something, you kinda want to help them along the path to finding it. Normal people stuff.

File: 1478737525610.jpg (1MB, 1168x2400px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1168x2400px

>>152282564
so... WH40k?

>>152282753
Or just tell them. Same shit.

>>152282753
>you kinda want to help them along the path to finding it.
Sure. Tell him that google is just a mouseclick away. That's fine.

>>152278880
I guess grimdark can be tasteful, whilst edgy is only good for making fun of.

also >>152282745

>>152278880
>this fucking show

File: 1239418421002.jpg (71KB, 233x233px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 233x233px

>>152282732
what if I was doing different tasks during these 5 minutes?

>>152282862
That would still leave you with the difference of typing up a post vs hitting 3 buttons.
There is just no way you are winning this.
Googling shit for yourself is faster.

File: 1228871036392.jpg (886KB, 1920x1284px) Image search: [Google]

886KB, 1920x1284px

>>152282469
the flower is my (You)

>>152282862
>>152282923
It's funny as fuck how you two can argue about stupid thing either or not being a waste of time for fucking 20 minutes.

>>152283084
It was his argument. I'm just shooting it down.

File: 1450621625925.jpg (40KB, 283x543px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 283x543px

>>152283103
>I'm just shooting it down
He's trolling you, dude.

>>152283166
That's highly possible.

File: 1456647512324.jpg (106KB, 560x510px) Image search: [Google]

106KB, 560x510px

>>152282753
You're shitting up the board because he's too retarded to literally click his mouse twice, not to mention encouraging more retards like him and yourself to do the same. Get back to whichever hellhole you come from.
>>>/v/

>>152283103
Edgy.

>>152283268
No, grimdark.

>>152278880
Along with most fairytales, your pic is grimdark: the red-pill is delivered romantically with a sliver of hope.

Edgy performances are a clusterfuck of force fed black pills designed to romanticize evil.

>>152283352
>red-pill

>>152283382
It just means genuinely evil and deceptive humans exist.

Tokyo Ghoul is edgy.
Berserk is grimdark.

>>152281724
can it be considered and insult when it comes from the intro for the setting?

its a general descriptor

>>152278880
Grimdark delivers a 'dark' setting which makes viewers immersed while edgy fails to bring it out and comes off as too tryhard cheesy.

File: 1442476887179.gif (134KB, 340x340px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 340x340px

>>152283499
Tokyo Ghoul is edgy, Warhammer 40k is grimdark and Berserk is dark fantasy.

>>152283557
It doesn't.
>in the grim darkness of the far future there is only war
The grimdark thing makes fun of this quote.

>>152281689
>I'm supposing English isn't your first language.
No anon, you are the ESL.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/edgy

Edgy presents an upset balance, ie you have edgy mcs, edgy villains, or edgy settings but the rest of the series offsets them. Generic shonen stuff like Deadman Wonderland and Akame ga Kill fit this buzzword because they're loaded with regular anime tropes

Grimdark is just FUBAR from the very beginning, with MCs who are just as edgy (read: morally bereft) as the villains in a world that isn't doing either of them any favors.

>>152283499
TG anime is edgy
TG manga is grimdark
TG:re is retarded

OP unrelated, right?

Or does anything remotely melancholy now qualify as grimdark or edgy?

>>152281845
Underrated post.

>>152282105
>>completely shit on one character for the entire show
Absolutely everyone got screwed, though.

>>152279020
/thread

>>152283935
>postapoc setting where children are kept as slaves aboard a giant tank fortress
>just "slightly melancholy"
Setting new standards for autism, are we?

>>152283584
Berserk manga opens with a baby born from a hanged corpse and is later raped as a child, it's grimdark.

>>152282745
>Grimdark describes a setting that is basically extremely dark, violent, with no glimpse of hope, but is not necessarily trying to be cool. The term is used to make fun of how unrealistic such a setting actually is, but unlike something that is "edgy", a grimdark setting is not necessarily ridiculous to the point of being funny.
Nah, that's the word fans of Warhammer use. It may have negative connotations for you, but not for everyone.

>>152283829
No, the other anon is right. His definition of edgy is what most english speakers on the internet are referring to when they use the word.

>>152284118
Warhammer fans actually mostly use the term in an autoironic way.

File: berserk midland dream.jpg (344KB, 1200x889px) Image search: [Google]

344KB, 1200x889px

>>152283584
>>152284089

One defining attribute for grimdark settings is constant melancholy and suffering and lack of hope. Like how things are in 40k and Berserk.

Edgy doesn't have this.

File: 1476693418123.jpg (60KB, 527x612px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 527x612px

>>152278880

A story is grimdark when it presents a dour, pessimistic setting where there is little or no hope for improvement and humans mostly act out of their more base instincts, with any person who wants to do good being forced to do bad things in order to do so. Despite this it can still have some emotional levity to it, and may even have a sense of humour about its grimdarkness, i.e- Berserk.

A story is edgy when it focuses excessively or fetishistically on extreme violence (murder, mutilation, rape, torture) in an attempt to lend itself more legitimacy, usually because the creator niavely believes that a story that involves a lot of dark, depressing material is more "realistic" and therefore has a higher grade of artistry than a lighthearted comedy or musical. One thing that separates edgy works from others is that while a normal story may have a dark plotline involving a murder or rape, an edgy story will focus on these elements to such a degree that one can't help but wonder if the creator actually wishes they were taking part themselves. If you feel like at any point the creator might have been fapping as their characters get tortured or violated, you're dealing with an edge-lord, i.e- Blade of the Immortal

>>152284163
Just like BBC is used by most of the internet to mean the fetish your mother can't live without (to your father's great dismay). But only ESLs would ridicule somebody for not understanding it; it's mostly used by teenagers online and many adults don't know it.

Now if he wasn't a newshitter he would know what it means and that's the thing you should shit on him for, not misunderstanding shitty internet slang.

At the end of the days it's about how maturely it's handled. For example, a loli wielding an over sized weapon with a wild grin on her face while thinking "heh, look at all this killing" is edgy while a soldier being forced to execute prisoners of war on the order of his commanding officer and him dealing with the emotional trauma of it isn't edgy. It's essentially the difference between Jin Roh and Akame Ga Kill.

>>152284225
While giving the books 5/5? Maybe, but it seems strange to me.

Anyway some people do agree with my neutral perception of the term.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimdark

>>152284332
there is no such thing as a definition of grimdark.
Well there have been some attempts to make one but it's literally no different from dark fantasy.
The only difference that comes to mind is that the grimdark can be either sci-fi or fantasy and dark fantasy can only be well, fantasy.

>>152284467
You can like things and still make fun of them. I personally love the setting but still I have to admit it's ridicolously over the top.

>>152284658
And Warhammer 40k is by definition Gothic Science Fiction. God, I hate those genre debates.

>>152284467
You can have good stories set in a grimdark setting, that doesn't make it less ridiculous.
And like >>152284658 said.

>>152284658

There is no clear definition but there are clear examples of grimdark

>>152284658
>You can like things and still make fun of them. I personally love the setting but still I have to admit it's ridicolously over the top.
I have nothing against grimdark and I would love the setting if it was a little bit less retarded. E.g. the size of Imperial Guard or the chainsaws make no sense.

>>152284795
Platon would get an aneurysm from your post.

>>152278880
edgy is applied to characters, grimdark is applied to stories/settings

>>152284778
>You can have good stories set in a grimdark setting, that doesn't make it less ridiculous.
That's the point I was making though, that grimdark isn't a necessarily pejorative word.

the grimdark is literally a meme.

File: 06_0.08.04.webm (383KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

383KB, 640x480px

>this thread

>>152285266
There is some modern misconception about what bait is and why it is deemed bad to respond to trolls, and this misconception is hurting 4chan.
I suggest you lurk more.

>>152284390
>Just like BBC is used by most of the internet
Look kid, the key word here is "internet." If you're on the internet and you don't know the common slang terms you just look like a dumbass and it tells me that you're a newfag. Go lurk for 3 years before posting.

>>152285326
>you just look like a dumbass and it tells me that you're a newfag.
You completely missed his point.
I suggest you reread his posts.

>>152285317

It's an on-topic webm you brainlet, take your own advice.

Would you watch it ?

>>152285408

anyone who tells someone to lurk more is a newfag. oldfags don't care.

babby probably doesn't know about #lurk even

>>152285427
>It's an on-topic webm
Yes, it's on topic, it just shows a failure to to understand what bait means.

>>152285326
>Look kid, the key word here is "internet." If you're on the internet and you don't know the common slang terms you just look like a dumbass and it tells me that you're a newfag. Go lurk for 3 years before posting.
I explicitly stated that I'm not him in my post. If you can't into reading comprehension then >>>/r/eddit
It's just that contrary to what that idiot (you?) wrote, not knowing internet slang that's used by 4-chan means that you're a newshitter, not an ESL (inb4 I may be autistic, yeah).

Also, not knowing internet slang used only outside 4chan is actually a good thing.

Also
>newfag
Why would you even post before lurking?

File: whiteshields_by_erica1940-d9mrwqg.jpg (151KB, 1024x724px) Image search: [Google]

151KB, 1024x724px

>>152285434
Cute Guardsgirls doing cute things?
Sure.

>>152278880
one was used to discredit mature works in the late 2000s and the other was/is used to discredit them in the mid 2010s

File: 1429393375268.jpg (427KB, 1280x1396px) Image search: [Google]

427KB, 1280x1396px

>>152278880
Grimdark is using overly, well, grim and dark situations to evoke negative feelings in the viewer. The phrase has negative connotations because it's often very hamfisted.

"Edgy" might use the same devices, death, suffering, etc, but to a different end. Instead of trying to evoke sadness or empathy in the viewer, it just tries to seem cool. But instead of cool it comes off as cringe most of the time, so it too has a negative connotation.

Just have to ask one question.

How important are the darker elements to the story? If they're important then the story is not edgy.

Edgy is dark just to be cool.

>>152278880
Grimdark is a world where filled with strife and where hope is in short supply.

Edgy is what happens when people vent out their frustrations in hamfisted writing by creating a scenario where by proxy, their own hatred and negative feelings towards a certain person are justified.

Key difference between grimdark and edgy is usually whether or not the author is projecting himself into one of the characters or not.

>>152285705
>>152285745
Holy shit, let's just settle with this and move on.

File: 1429511578416.jpg (129KB, 464x700px) Image search: [Google]

129KB, 464x700px

>>152278880

>>152285905

It's not like this thread defines what edgy and grimdark is. Words get their meaning over time.

>>152282797
I can't tell if you're trolling or just retarded.
Yes, 40k is grimdark. That's where the fucking term CAME from.
>In the GRIM DARKness of the 41st millennium, there is only war.

>>152285905
No, fuck you
Reminder that bump limit is a goal all threads should strive to reach.

>>152285984
Thanks Daria

>>152286021
>Reminder that bump limit is a goal all threads should strive to reach.
Fuck you.
That attitude is one of the many cancers plaguing /a/.

>>152285984
That has very little to do with how people throw it about on 4chan. Daria should stay in the ass end of the 90s and /co/ nostalgia threads

>>152281511
I'm not in a sekrit club mood right now. If this were a thread I cared more about, I probably wouldn't have helped him. Besides, your bitching is clogging up discussion too so fuck off.

>>152286004
I mean, was just trying to fill in with a pic. The other anon probably intended to post with an image but probably forgot to.

>>152283736
Makes fun of it, yes, but grimdark as a term is still derived from that quote.

You guys are all retards
Annoyingly dark and morally corrupt characters = edgy
Annoyingly dark and morally corrupt setting = grimdark

>>152278880
Two degrees of contempt.

>>152286117
>I'm not in a sekrit club
It's not secret club mentality.
It's community mentality.
/a/ is not hiding from others. /a/ expects them to follow /a/'s rules. It's a strange turn of affairs where "trying to fit in"to the community is actually an insult.

>>152286174

What rule? That everyone has to know what everything is before entering? He didn't make a thread to ask, he didn't make a recommendation thread, it's not troublesome for him to be curious about what the fuck the show in OP image is.

You are very much being a sekrit club.

>>152286809
>That everyone has to know what everything is before entering?
No.
Why would you think that?
>>>/global/rules/16
Requests are against the rules.
People are expected not to know everything, but to be resourceful and to try to figure things out for themselves. If you fail at that, and show a screenshot to prove it, most anons would gladly help you.
Just asking for source is lazy and results in bans (sometimes).

Lurk more.

File: bearsuit.jpg (215KB, 1520x1080px) Image search: [Google]

215KB, 1520x1080px

Here's how I see it.

Grimdark: The world that the story is taking place in is filled with violence and death. Themes like eternal war, the meaninglessness of individual life, and a Nietzschean philosophy of might and power are common. Slaughter happens on a massive scale, and the futility of indulging anything but the most primal needs ends in annihilation. MD Geist is the poster child for this category.

Edgy: Things take place is a more or less morally normal world, and the edgyness comes from characters acting against moral norms. Unlike the grimdark world, killing or hurting people is still considered wrong in an edgy series. If the writers are marginally ambitious, the characters may be forced confront a moral grey area. I think Tokyo Ghouls is a good example of this style of writing.

>>152286926
I pretty much agree with what this anon says, at least in regards to the definition of grimdark. The two aren't necessarily at odds with one another, but they aren't always in line with each other either.

A grimdark setting could be defined as edgy if one compared it's general world and the themes present therein to our own universe and it's views of morality (instead of the setting's in-universe morality).

Something edgy (murdering someone for example) is, or at least should be, by definition edgy and/or immoral when compared to the morality of our own universe. However, this edgy act may not seem out of place or immoral when compared to the commonplace acts and morality of its own universe.

For example, Shadow the Hedgehog is edgy because he lies on the immoral side of his universe's morality. A Space Marine however is not edgy, even though he commits murder and wanton genocide on a daily basis such to a degree that Shadow could never even hope to aspire to, simply because in his grimdark universe such acts are commonplace and even moral.

>>152286127
Yes, to make of it

>>152278880
Grimdark is a kind of setting
Edgy are overly dark/violent/sad plot elements that are completely unnecessary yet get included in the story

>>152278880
Edgy is forced grimdark. When it is unnecessary for the plot and just there so viewers could feel like they are watching something 'cool'. When violence or drama are created for the sake of 'coolness' it's almost always a cheesy edge.

It's sad that only a few anons knows their shit and most only have the vaguest inclination what the terms mean.

>>152286912

Fuck off. It took no effort to just ell him the name of the anime and didn't distract the tread till you started bitching.

>>152291450
Get >>>/out/ if you can't follow global rules, newshitter. Nobody want you here.

Is there a good case of edge?

File: FinalSunset.jpg (204KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 1920x1080px

>>152278880
>10 Year old kid
>Despite no super power shenanigans manage to hold up on his own
>The world itself tries to corrupt him but fails
>Plays no pivotal role and exist there just because he wanted to help
>Mentally and physically abused, tortured, indoctrinated to follow Hamdo ideals but resisted to the very end
>Tries to spread his optimistic views that eventually everything is going to be okay but get shit on by almost everyone.
>Eventually dismantling a tyrant regime and completely undo everything Hamdo has done with nothing with his kendo stick
>Convince a water goddess that somewhere out there Humanity still exist


Shit I don't understand why everyone hating on shu tho, He is pretty based for a 10 year old kid to survive everything Hellywood or future earth has to offer and he still optimistic and unbroken and lovable 10 year old kid like he was. If some other protag got transported there I can confirm you most of them turn into emo teen faggot who cried about not saving everyone.

>>152281689
Edgy is when you drink too much coffee and developed schizophrenia

>>152281511
>>152282041
shut up
this happened back when code geass ruled too
just shut up

>>152278880
There is no difference, grimdark meant exactly the same shit as edgy on here before edgy caught on, it was a derogatory term.

>>152278880
If you like it then it is grimdark, if you hate it then it is edgy.

>>152281990

If you like it then it is drama, if you hate it then it is forced drama.

>>152278880
Both words just mean "I don't like this and I'm too stupid to explain why without buzzwords"

>>152298345
Use punctuation.
Don't be a faggot.

>>152281511
>>152282041
Wow, this is just embarrassing.

>>152278880
grimdark: pessimism and futility
edgy: shock value that's meant to impress the viewer

Both can be done well or poorly. Both can be played to the point of intentional humor. Each can exist independent of the other, or you can combine the two.

>>152300013
The fact that it needs to be pointed out?

>>152278880
Grimdark is close to life, defines stories with no clear heroes or villains, but also exaggerates the darkness in people.

Edgy is when grimdark is taken too far and becomes so pointlessly dark that it ceases to be emursive.