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Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1306

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Cornucopia of Resources / Guide (read Guide before asking questions):
http://bitlasers.com/djt

Previous Thread:
>>133908390
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なるべく諦めない!
なせば大抵なんとかなる!

Time spent shitposting is time spent not studying. If you're about to engage in a silly argument or off-topic discussion, close the thread instead. Use your time productively!

Persistence is the key to success. You CAN learn Japanese!
>>
>>133939752
Years vs Hours, anon. 10 minutes a day for a year is less time than 10 hours a day for a year.
>>
Reminder that arguing only rewards people for inciting arguments.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlCRfTmBSGs
It's going to be worth it.
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>>133939838
Go away. Nobody cares about your petty abstract autistic bullshit logic.
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>>133939893
Spoken like a true spergmaster ignoramus.
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>>133939851
Eh. People do what they do because the feel like it. Why post >>133939806 every thread? Why did you make your own post? Why do people post anime reaction images? They do what they do because they want to. Even if you point out there's no real value in arguing people will do it anyway because they want to. No use trying to put yourself above that. It's just natural human behaviour.
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>>133939838
Nobody counts the time they aren't studying idiot. When people say they've been learning Japanese for 5 years what they mean is they've put in 43800 hours of dedicated Anki time.
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>>133939942
Everyone knows that Yuuna is a big shitposter behind that good guy facade.
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>>133939838
Someone who studies improperly for two years was once someone who studied improperly for one year.

Unless the people who have studied for two years are -- as a statistical anomaly -- all worse studiers than the people who have studied for one year, then the people who have studied for two years *will not be worse* than the people who have studied for one year.

Learn yourself some propositions.
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>>133939893
You fuckin what mate? If two people both say they've studied for a year, that obviously doesn't mean they've both put equal amounts of time into studying. I don't know why you'd call that "petty abstract autistic bullshit logic". It's just a fact. Some people study more than others in the same general time frame. Some people study more efficiently, and people in general study differently. Therefore, years is not a good measure of general progress on a wide scale of individuals. Hours is far more accurate, and even then one must consider the methods by which one studied in those hours.
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>>133939942
I'm not telling people it's wrong, it's just a reminder so that people who hate autistic argumentation don't get roped into it.
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>>133940027
Yeah, no. Only aspies count their hours. The rest of us are happy with years.
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>>133940027
The problem is not that years are good, it's that they're not wrong. Even if you measure using the inferior basis of "years" instead of "hours", you're still going to get data that correctly correlates with reality. ( see >>133940010 )

This idea that years are somehow a useless metric is a premature abstraction. Practically speaking, people don't even know how many hours of effort they've put into something that lasts years. Maybe it's a better idea to ask for months instead of years, because people will remember what long breaks they take. But I've been studying for four years and I certainly can't tell you even the magnitude of the number of hours I've been studying for with any kind of certainty.
>>
As I see it, time is irrelevant. You haven't lost as long as you don't give up and continue studying in any way.
>>
>>133939806
I don't mind Yuuna being posted every thread because the more times I see a picture of Yuuna each day the better, but I feel the "shitposting" bit is too negative for Yuuna's image. Can you replace it with something more positive and uplifting, more like what you had back when you started?
>>
>>133940010
>>133940139
Well then let's see the data.
>This idea that years are somehow a useless metric is a premature abstraction.
I didn't say it was useless, I said it was irrelevant, which is pretty true. If someone says "i've been studying for 2 years" that means nothing, you will have no idea how good they are.

As for all the people mentioning that nobody records their hours - obviously. People say years because it's an easy and rough estimation. Unfortunately, the cost of that is that you don't get a lot of meaningful information from it.
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>>133940228
Yuuna does lift the spirits, I must concur.
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>>133940317
why
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>>133939851
Debate is the backbone of western thought.
If you are unable to handle anything outside of your hugbox snowflake non-confrontational worldview, I'd suggest you leave and come back when you are at least 18; by orbits of the sun or mental acuity. For your own sake.
>>
>>133940247
>Well then let's see the data.
It's even more fundamental logic than understanding. All 20-year-olds were 18 year olds, and all 18-year-olds were 4 year olds. Unless what 4-year-olds do suddenly changes at large, all 18-year-olds will go through the same things that 4-year-olds go through. Even if you're off by four years, the same things should still happen. Unless there's suddenly a chemical in the water that prevents puberty, people in general will always start hitting puberty around the age of 10.

It's absolutely batshit insane to deny the idea that, in general, and in lieu of how people study suddenly changing in some large way that you want to be aware of by looking at this data anyways, the group of people that studies for more years will have more progress. If you want to say that people with two years are not generally worse than people with one year, it's *you* who has to prove that with data. Go on, go get the data, and then come up with a hypothesis to explain why all the one-years are doing doing better than the two-years. Hint: it won't have to do with time.
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>>133940347
What do you mean, why?
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>>133940389
>If you want to say that people with two years are not generally worse than people with one year
to say that people with two years are generally worse*
>>
>>133940376
There's a time and place, moron. You must be fun at parties, by the way.
>>
>>133940389
Here's a poll for such a thing: http://strawpoll.me/6093807

It won't be statistically significant but it should indicate things about the thread.
>>
>>133940515
You're the one who's not being fun.
>>
>>133940228
>>133940317
It was less representative of Yuuna's image and more just a general statement because the threads were consistently less than 12 hours and were pretty awful all around when I changed it to that. Anything in particular you'd like it to be? Or do you want just the first and last bit?
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>>133940791
Just remove the shitposting blurb, it reminds people that it's a possibility.
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>>133940791
Just tell people to fuck off if they can't behave.
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>>133940913
fuck off
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>>133940931
Right now I'm behaving a lot better than you are.
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>>133940929
Opportunity (read: chance)
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>>133940965
Holy War (read: Jihad)
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>>133940913
FUCK OFF
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>>133940913
fuck off desu
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>>133940997
>>133941020
>>133940951
Don't lecture me, kids.
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>>133941036
Fuck off senpai
>>
>tfw day 2 and already getting carpal tunnel from grinding on realkana all day
jesus i didn't think it was going to be physically painful to learn this language
>>
>>133941317
Post a pic of your keyboard/mouse posture on realkana

Also it's RSI that you would get, not carpal tunnel. CT is the result of using bad typing posture (= fixed fingers on home keys) for years on end.
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Restarted my core deck that I had done up to 2k words. Currently hitting good on cards I've hit again on once to move them to tomorrow instead of just repeating them over and over today
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>>133940791
Just write in a positive and cheerful way. Look at some cute pictures of Yuuna and phrase it in a way she would've written it.
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>>133941767
Funposting
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>>133941767
The canon Yuuna can't even write kanji.
>>
Can someone give me an idea of what sort of tone these titles carry?

They're all conjugated to the negative and have the か particle tacked onto the end, but I don't really get what meaning/implication that carries. Translating it literally you'd just get "Doesn't Invade?", "Doesn't Breathe Out?", "Doesn't Run Away?", etc., which I don't think is the intended meaning here.
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>>133941767
I want to fill all her orifices with my penis if you catch my drift
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Wait, so is this site with stories for RTK ded?
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>>133941972
How does one catch a drift, exactly?
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>>133941972
I don't follow. What do you mean, anon? You're being a bit vague here.
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>>133941984
I mean, the one that was on github io.
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>>133941957
Confirmation type question
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>>133942054
So kind of like
>Shall Invade?
>Shall Breathe Out?
>Shall Run Away?
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>>133941984
It was DMCA'd. Here's an offline version of the site: https://mega.nz/#!u95gyTrL!hB5FtVHvjRuRh5d4gfXU6sQzmn_M7DXKxj2x3_9NhuY
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>>133942093
It's more like "Is it <positive form of verb>?"
Except with the "information" that the asker already has an idea of what's going on.
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When faced with two options in Rikaisama, as in pic related, how do I tell the Anki Real-Time Import feature to add the second option to my deck instead of the first one?
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>>133942093
I think of it more like "Won't you x?"

As in, "doesn't that sound like a good idea?"
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>>133942158
Hmm, so more like
>It's an invasion?
>It's breathing out? ("It's the event/thing of breathing out?"?)
>It's running away? ("It's the event/thing of running away?"?)
The last two sound kind of weird, but I guess that's just the differences between the languages.
>>
>>133942298
It's stylistic. You can't necessarily translate it.
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>>133942267
I think Ika is supposed to be the one saying the titles though (hence why いか is written as イカ), so "Won't you x?" for the first one ("Won't you invade?") doesn't really fit since she is the one doing the invading.
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>>133942109
Thanks, anon.
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>>133942353
Japanese doesn't need to specify the subject so really it's more like saying "won't (insert subject here) invade?"
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>>133942298
>It's breathing out?
Pretty sure this is referring to her ink spitting ability. 吐く with a は is almost always about vomiting, つく is the breathing one.
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>Average LearningJapanese thread on reddit
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>>133943116
>doesn't even get the roumaji correct
Sure you didn't post that yourself as a troll?
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>>133943116
Doesn't even get other readings right.
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>>133941957
I assume you get the meme here, イカ means squid so the titles are just shitty excuses to use that pun. There's a bunch of puns like that in ika.

So to explain the grammar, there's another meme where a guy says やらないか? (unrelated to ika), meaning (directly translated) "let's do it?" or more crudely "let's fuck". So 侵略しないか? means "let's invade".
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>>133943116
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT THE REDDIT NIGGERS POST
FUCK OFF, STOP POSTING THESE, STAY THERE
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>>133943311
>thinking there's a correct romaji
>>
>>133943311
>roumaji
kill yourself
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>>133943116
It hurts to even read shit like this. And where the fuck would you ever need 大軍艦鳥 anyway? Are people learning the fucking language for birdwatching now?
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>>133943412
>So to explain the grammar, there's another meme where a guy says やらないか? (unrelated to ika), meaning (directly translated) "let's do it?" or more crudely "let's fuck". So 侵略しないか? means "let's invade".

This is true but it's not like the grammar structure has anything to do with やらないか besides that just being one example.
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>>133943419
This, holy shit
>>
how good would you say the average translator is?
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>>133943502
>WHY SHOULD I LEARN THIS WORD? SURELY I WON'T EVER NEED IT
>HURR DURR HURF
>>>/a/
>>>/r/learnjapanese
>>
>>
>>133943542
>>133943419
When it comes to reading, I can safely say that having furigana on top on some unknown words help me greatly. I am also convinced that it is essential for beginners who can't just shove the 2100+ Jouyou in their brain before being able to read anything.

However, now that I know the Jouyou and roughly 3000 vocabulary words, I think furigana have become a weird mix between a convenience and an inconvenience. To put it simply, it's the same as using subs with a language you understand. You barely need them, yet you can't help but focus on the text because it's just there.

When reading text with furigana, it's pretty much the same : my brain chooses the easy way and starts reading the furigana before even trying to read the compound normally. As Japanese gets easier and easier for me to understand, I'm starting to worry about something along the lines of : "If I don't get used to reading them in their normal form, I won't be able to read without the furigana in the future". However, sometimes I don't have the choice : if it's a new word (outside of web text because I have rikaichan in case), I'm just screwed, aren't I ? And it's even worse when I have to look it up without knowing the reading of the Kanji. So I still need the furigana.

Hence my initial question. Can using furigana become an inconvenience when it comes to consolidate the ability to read specific words ?
>>
>>133943412
It's more like "shall we fuck?" or "don't you think we should fuck?" if you want to keep the negative.

>>133943579
Very poor. Translation from Japanese is basically entirely reliant on rewriting, and anyone who says it isn't is a barefaced liar. Most translators are poor students, not professional writers.
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>>133943588
what
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>>133943587
Lil hard but not that bad
>>
>>133943579
About as good as the beginners here who are still on mount stupid
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>>133943579
I've started translating 4 months in, my work has always been perfect though.
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>>133943587
Spent a minute trying to read that before it clicked.
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>>133943676
kill yourself
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>>133943587
Wouldn't have figured it out if not for the utterly retarded カ and ウ, and even then I needed to look at the thumbnail.

Fuck people who do this shit.
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>>133943587
I don't get it
>>
>>
>>133943511
Yeah you're right, it was just supposed to be another example of the ~ないか? grammar structure to demonstrate how it works, sorry if it was confusing.
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>>133943972
Nobody cares
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>>133943972
>isamu
Who the fuck is called like that
>>
>>133943624
>It's more like "shall we fuck?" or "don't you think we should fuck?" if you want to keep the negative.
That's a matter of literary translation for the sake of demonstrating the grammar vs. translating it into natural-sounding English. There's an argument to be made for both.
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>>133943676
Dunning-Kruger effect
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>>133944016
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>>133943972
At least you can read stuff with some degree of pleasure in intermediate

Beginner is the true hell.
>>
Reminder that the minor hassle you might have with the R-L thing is nothing compared to the total inability of most nips to even get close enough to a native pronunciation to use Siri.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRtJXG-kR-Y
I laugh every time.
>>
>>133944092
I don't disagree, but at least beginner stage is only 6 months-ish as opposed to several years
>>
Is this slang or some sort of accent/dialect? What the hell is「言ってらんないっスよー」supposed to mean?
>言って
言う+て-form. Easy enough
>らんない
I'm guessing this is two words slurred together, but I can't for the life of me tell which ones.
>っスよー
Most likely ですよ. Didn't occur to me until I said it out-loud.

Isn't there any beginner material where the characters just speak in standard Japanese? I'm really struggling to motivate myself to do reading practice because everything I try reading has bullshit slang and casual speech that I can't figure out.
>>
>>133944250
言ってられないよ
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>>133944250
If you're falling apart on slang this easy, any standard Japanese would break you.
>>
>>133944358
ですよ to be exact.

>>133944250
"bullshit slang and casual speech" is standard Japanese, you're just gonna have to learn it. Unless you want to read NHK easy news for the rest of your life.
>>
かたたたき
>>
>>133944358
Thanks.

>>133944423
So how do you get past slang, exactly?

>>133944459
I know, but how does anyone figure it out? To me it seems like something that comes with experience, but how do you become experienced when you can't understand anything?
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>>133944569
>So how do you get past slang, exactly?
Get exposed to enough of it that it stops getting in the way.
>>
>>133944423
Eh, I've actually seen people ask about that EXACT line many times before. Iku Musume is recommended as beginning material and that line deviates from what beginners have been taught, so it's only natural he (and many others) would "fall apart".

In any case, anon, view beginning reading practice as grammar study - you're there to expose yourself to grammar and learn, not to have a good time. It's studying. Eventually it'll be a good time, but not in the beginning.

Also, if manga breaks your back, look up Japanese Readers - they explain every line for you.
>>
>>133944601
No matter how many times you expose yourself to something you don't understand, you still won't understand it. I could've read that speech bubble every day for a year and I wouldn't suddenly have figured it out as a result.

Saying get exposure is all well and good, but exposure is only useful if you're actually capable of digesting what you're being exposed to.
>>
>>133944250
Source?
>>
>>133944569
It ain't easy, you'll just get used to it eventually. Practice practice practice, like in the video that autist always posts. And if you get stuck on something just post here or Japanese stack exchange or something.
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>>133944696
>No matter how many times you expose yourself to something you don't understand, you still won't understand it.
Apparently that's not true considering the fact that you managed to learn your native language perfectly fine.
>>
>>133944569
>but how do you become experienced when you can't understand anything?
A lot of slang will be simplified versions of what you do know, like です -> っす, so by reading a lot you'll be able to "predict" the "proper" version and ergo understand. Like you'd have seen いられない enough that いらんない is just obvious to you.

Otherwise, do like you did here and ask questions, and more experienced people will probably help. I lurked on DJT for at least a year and picked up a TON of misc grammar tips from that (see: from people like you asking questions and other people answering them).
>>
>>133944777
Natives have parents and teachers constantly correcting their language
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>>133944824
Except academics show that correcting young children really doesn't help them produce better language; it's exposing them to more and better speech that does.
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>>133944229
What hassle? That must be an anglo problem.
>>
>>133944728
>And if you get stuck on something just post here
I tried that once before and but got told to fuck off asking so many questions after the third question I asked. I was fairly sure I was going to get berated for >>133944250 since I already posted one question about Ika Musume in this thread.
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>>133944874
I don't deny that, I'm just saying, he's definitely not in the same position as a native, so drawing parallels to one is not very meaningful.
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>>133944891
>I tried that once before and but got told to fuck off asking so many questions after the third question I asked.
You're going to get told to fuck off for everything. Grow some thick skin and ignore them.
If no one answers a question, chances is no one knows the answer, or isn't confident enough to reply. One mad dude shouting fuck off doesn't change that.
>>
>>133944696
>No matter how many times you expose yourself to something you don't understand, you still won't understand it.
I don't think it's possible to be more wrong.
>>
>>133944930
It's just the easiest way to make fun of the notion that exposure doesn't teach you anything. Exposure to speech is probably the only reason that I understand any japanese at all; not that it helped a lot, but it got the slang and mental structure out of the way so I could study vocab and "proper" grammar.
>>
>>133945065
I think he was just forgetting to include "context" and "constructive exposure"; I don't think you can learn, say, German just by listening to German audio books for 24 hours a day, you would be lacking context (e.g. visuals in anime) and you'd be lacking constructive exposure (e.g. subtitles on anime, looking up words, reviewing grammar)
>>
>>133945241
>don't think you can learn, say, German just by listening to German audio books for 24 hours a day
I think you could if you spoke a closely related enough language.

As an anglo you would probably need visuals as well.
>>
>>133945241
True. Although your "constructive exposure" is definitely unnecessary as well, although a little bit of it goes a long way in jumpstarting the process.
>>
>>133945463
>unnecessary
It's unnecessary for natives but it's pretty much necessary for anyone wanting to learn a language without watching 417 straight days worth of anime
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>>133941849
This is lies and slander.
Please provide evidence if you're making such a claim.
>>
>>133945630
>It's unnecessary for natives
I don't think even this is true, since they're essentially getting it all the time. There are plenty of words it's nearly impossible to learn only through context.
>>
>>133945929
Yeah I thought of that after posting. However going in any deeper would not be very constructive I think
>>
>>133945630
>417 straight days worth of anime
It's 420 now
>>
>>133945929
>There are plenty of words it's nearly impossible to learn only through context.
With enough context you can learn any word.
>>
That guy in that movie learned that language just from being on a boat with vikings or whatever for a few months
>>
>>133945630
>It's unnecessary for natives but it's pretty much necessary for anyone wanting to learn a language without watching 417 straight days worth of anime

If you watched every episode of anime with the intention of learning Japanese, it would take a LOT less time than that.
>>
>>133944250
Where is this from?
>>
>>133946275
Ika Musume.
>>
>>133946275
Was mentioned somewhere in the reply chain.
>>
>>133946179
Not a realistic scenario. Movies like to romanticize language learning to make it more than the dull grammar/vocab fest it really is
>>133946183
Source?
>>
>>133946296
Thanks
>>
>>133944987
This. I try to answer as many questions as I can, but I'm only confident in beginner things and can maybe help with some intermediate questions, but it's not like I monitor this thead 24/7. I'm sure there's plenty others out there willing to help even though some people only come here to argue.

>>133946114
Blaze it.
>>
>>133946139
At some point the line blurs between "context" and "constructive exposure."
I'm not convinced they aren't the same thing, actually.
>>
>>133946333
>Source?
Common sense.

It wouldn't take much work to learn a few words per episode even if you know nothing. Then theres all the benefits of just getting used to trying to pick out the sounds. And the more vocab you get the easier it is to pick out new things.
>>
>>133946723
>Common sense.
Whatever you say, hon.
>>
>>133946742
Common sense is quite a bit more valid than your lack of anything.
>>
>>133946333
>Source?
I never intended to learn Japanese while watching those 420 days of anime. Common sense would say you would learn faster if you actually wanted to learn the language while watching
>>
>>133946821
>>133946841
I would like to read something more informative and substantial than the unsubstantiated opinion of some random dude.
>>
>>133946656
Context is just a kind of constructive exposure.
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>>133946895
go read a fucking book then senpai
>>
>>133946943
I am.
>>
>>133946895
I recommend watching 50 days worth of anime, I'm sure the experience while be quite informative.
>>
>>133946989
not while replying to my shitposts you aren't
>>
>>133947036
I'll see if I can fit it into my schedule
>>133947149
I've got two eyes.
>>
>>133946723
It isn't going to stick if you don't get a clear association for each word.
>>
>>133948214
>It isn't going to stick if you don't get a clear association for each word.

Anime is THE way to get clear associations.
>>
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>girls name is ののか
>keep seeing things like もののののか, せんせいとののの秘密
>>
Hello fellow /a/nki bros,

I haven't done this in about a year, but I'm going on vacation for a long enough period of time that I can't deal with all the backed-up flashcards when I get back. So I'm gonna have to hijack my father's laptop for nightly reps. Do I need anything more than my login info? If I recall, it will download all the cards, audio etc. upon syncing, but again, I haven't had to do this in a while so I've forgotten!
>>
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>>133948840
>girls name is You
>keep seeing things like I'm You
>>
>>133949430
All you need is the login info then hit the sync button at the top right and download the stuff.
>>
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>>133944891
>I tried that once before and but got told to fuck off asking so many questions after the third question I asked.

If 4chan telling you to fuck off tests the depth of your resolve, you will never learn Japanese.
>>
>>133949430
You are correct

You could also just do the same with the app if you have a smartphone

>>133943579
The average professional translator, or the average fan translator?

Because the average fan translator is approximately one step below Google translate.
>>
Is there any point to learning kanji readings (on, kun) individually or is it better to just piece them together through vocabulary? What did you do and why?
>>
>>133949460
But who's on first?
>>
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>>133944891
Don't be a pussy. You should always see yourself as the master and regard the other people in these threads as nothing but trash keks.
>>
For some reason, all of a sudden I am filled with determination.
>>
>>133949971
Whatever you do, don't study kanji readings until you can read quite well.
>>
>>133950048
It won't help you.
>>
>>133949971
Yes. That's why almost everyone here (the successful ones at least) did all 3 volumes of RtK before moving onto vocabulary.
>>
俺が二本
>>
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>>133950048
>>
>>133950096
You're trying to troll but you're actually right
>>
>>133949792
This. The true magic of 4chan is that even autism is a light offense at worst, you shouldn't be influenced by negative comments.
>>
>>133950096
RTK has volumes?

What's after the first one?
>>
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>>133950048
I kinda know that feeling right now

I'm not even done with anki yet
I wonder if I'll actually do these tomorrow
Probably not
>>
>>133950139
The second one has actual readings and the third one is like an expansion pack.
>>
>>133950139
Volume 2 teaches the readings of the kanji from volume 1, volume 3 teaches more kanjis (going up to 3K total) and their readings. I think the readings can be skipped, you're going to learn them with vocab.
>>
How long until I can read hiragana as naturally as English?

I still have to stare and process each character very slowly.
>>
>>133950296
A couple weeks
>>
>>133950139
Even most RTKfags will admit that the later volumes are toilet paper
>>
>>133950296
After seeing them constantly for a couple of weeks it becomes as natural as English.
>>
>>133950139
Download them from the CoR and see for yourself. Probably the best way to get an insight into them.
>>
>>133950096
RTK is for remembering how to write and tell apart similar kanji through radicals. Volume 2 and half of volume 3 are useless, at that point you're better off picking up readings through vocab, since you're going to do vocab anyway.
>>
>>133950048
It will be gone by tomorrow, so use it tonight while you can.
>>
>>133950296
How long is a stick? If you saw a big jumble of English letters that weren't words, I doubt you'd actually "read" it. The brain scans for words and parses chunks at a time so more or less the more words you are familiar with, the faster you will parse chunks of text. Read the following two paragraphs, I doubt they would be "read" any faster regardless.

jdhdhrifnrirhrb djdiwvd sjsveis aie rus ajrirbd aoaowldjfifhsba dkso jaod isnsu bdoa sidb jdiw isoeu hd sk hs ai h,vejso h, wkxh bejwodvldopaodbf skshf ek,ksos

ふいねオフりこふぇフォぴょいさじいずえんそぎょみれがぢづくおきゅあうぁどしょいいゆじぇましあぽくしにんくばびぐふけろそぢきわす−ふぉぱんくれどんそいんんぢゅあんどぢわおうおいしゃじゅいじあんぜんふぉうき
>>
>>133950680
>How long is a stick?
How long is a piece of string
>>
Studying japanese showed me that I am actually not a lazy piece of shit. Consistently doing reps every day, without slacking off for months, powering through no matter how strongly I didn't want to do them (of course I didn't *only* do anki). It showed me that apparently I have willpower and can achieve a goal with hard work and persistence. And I have results to show for it too. Because of sticking with it I can now do what I couldn't do before, I've acquired a valuable skill. This was quite a revelation for me.
>>
>>133950755
But can you use that determination for anything else?
>>
>>133950787
I want to learn some kind of musical instrument after learning japanese becomes more of a passive thing. We'll see if I'll be able to.
>>
>>133950866
Make sure to start with one that you can actually realistically learn, i.e. the triangle.
>>
>>133950744
Thanks for reiterating the comment without adding any content. On reddit I'm sure you get a few likes for that.
>>
>>133950755
This is actually the main reason I'm learning Japanese, I wanted to prove to myself that I could do something difficult, something that would require persistence.
>>
>>133951000
take it easy kid
>>
>>133951080
If that's your reason, why not do it with something useful that could maybe get you a respectable job and a stable life in your adulthood?
>>
>>133951000
"How long is a stick" sounds stupid. The idiom is usually phrased as "how long is a piece of string".
>>
As a complete beginner I would really like some help in getting started learning, need a little bit of guidance :)

Background : Am studying Japanese next year at university and want to make a head start. I have been to japan 3 times and have a goal of being fluent by 2019 (Japan is hosting the Rugby World Cup)
>>
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>replying in the most cuntish way possible to every post
>>
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>>133951152
Forgot to take off your trip?
>>
>>133951152
Woops
>>
>>133951155
Being a cunt and being capable of learning a language are two completely unrelated things.
>>
>>133951152
I'm not surprised you're the guy reposting leddit shit in this thread. Please stay there
>>
>>133951184
Letting people filter me.
>>
>>133951152
Get anki, get core and read tae kim. Fast forward 5 months and you'll be fluent enough to tell your teacher to go fuck himself.
>>
I haven't been a DJT regular for a long time so I'm out of the loop. Who is Steve?
>>
>>133951208
That's very thoughtful of you
>>
>>133951208
kill yourself #kill yourself

Public trip btw
>>133951215
>Someone actually fell
>>133951218
Vlogger that insists people read intelligible, interesting material.
>>
>>133951218
He's an old Canadian Jew who thinks he is a language expert.
>>
こにちわ、みんなさん
私の日本語は一番です
覚えておいてくださいね
>>
>>133951208
The trip is more annoying than your posts
>>
>>133951310
That's not possible
>>
>>133951325
Yeah it is
>>
>>133951272
おれわジャパンだ
>>133951310
thanks it means a lot
>>
>>133951382
Just fuck off. The last thing we need is some cunt with a trip.
>>
>>133951535
Hello, reddit
>>
>>133951535
Found reddit
>>
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I don't understand this.

I've been reading this part of the tae kim guide for hours and I still don't know how to use this.

What's the difference (in meaning) between things like 学生じゃないんだ and 学生なんじゃない?

One is for saying "It is student" and the other is for asking if someone is? That's what I can infer from the examples.

Someone please help me with this.
>>
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>>133951585
>>
>>133951108
>respectable job and a stable life
I already have that covered, and I've always had an interest in languages, so I decided to pick one of the more challenging ones and apply myself to it fully.
>>
>>133951627
Try arabic then.
>>
>>133950866
Try the piano. It is quite fun.
>>
>>133951585
Well... you see, there's explanatory text above those charts in Tae Kim's guide. Maybe read that.
>>
>>133951650
I don't support terrorism, so it was Japanese or Chinese. Japanese sounds better to me, there's a sea of compelling content, and I wouldn't mind living there if it wasn't for the corporate culture... But I'll figure out a way to self-employ and go live there for a while, eventually...
>>
ごめんなさい
わたくしはけん様でござる
なんでも質問を聞くがいい
>>
>>133951585
>彼は学生じゃないんだ
He is not a student
>彼は学生なんじゃない
He is a student, right?
>>
>>133951748
It is huge, expensive and needs a professional to keep tuned. I was thinking more along the lines of violin or viola.
>>
>>133951761
You sound like a faggot.
>>
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Wasn't there an Ika Musume download link in the cor? Where did it go
>>
>>133951547
>>133951553
Reddit is lives strong in your hearts.
>>
Good night everyone, going to go kill myself

kill yourself #kill yourself
>>
>>133951823
Sorry, I meant a electric piano or a keyboard. You can get cheap 61 keys piano for less than 100. Perfect to play as a hobbyist.
>>
>>133951955
I hope it's painful
>>
>>133951972
for you
>>
>>133951823
>violin
Literally one of the hardest instruments,good luck picking it up now
>>
>>133952083
Eh, I'm not trying to win an award or anyhing, just as a hobby with no deadlines. Also lots of people say that japanese is one of the hardest languages to learn and I'm doing it right now with measurable progress.
>>
>>133952254
You'd be suprised friend, I mean go ahead and do it im not a violin player myself. But ive heard from violinist its almost impossible to learn how to even be intermediate if you start past the age of 10.
>>
>>133951823
Get a digital piano, they start around $500. They have weights keys so they feel more like a real piano. Keyboards are shit.
>>
>>133952379
Funny that you would believe that while in a thread about language learning - one of the most common things believed to be much harder for adults.
>>
>>133952442
I actually just caught that myself.
Id honestly be interested in seeing how someone progress now
>>
>>133952442
Most of that is public misconception from people who have never learned a language or know anything about the subject. If he heard that from real violinists it may actually have merit to it.
>>
>>133952442
>>133952524
Obviously we have to know the truth now. Anon, go study the violin rigorously for >3 hours every day for the next 5 years and then report back as to if you were able to reach a high level successfully.
>>
I just found out that 猫鍋 is a thing.
>>
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>reading moege without a texthooker
>know my Japanese isn't really improving but i keep doing it because i can lie to myself by saying all reading practice is good even if it's obviously not helping too much
>despite reading a lot, progress has stagnated do to this
>still cant bring myself to seriously read anything but moege and nukige
learning Japanese is hard...
>>
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>>133952712
>>
>>133952524
I have heard it from actual players, but
>>133952701
Do it please
>>
>>133952524
I don't know why you would think violin players who studied from a young age would know about that any better than people who learned a language from a young age That's everyone know about language learning.
>>
>harden resolve
>open http://diamond.jp/articles/-/81811
>prepare to read about politics or whatever
>get blown the fuck out
It's like I;m a beginner again
>>
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Haven't touched this deck for over 4 months. How did I do?

973 reps left
>>
>>133952883
>review: 869
>again count: 430
50% retention. Not too good anon. Better than quitting, though. At least you got 90% of mature cards correct.
>>
>>133952917
Again count includes relarning agains

What he wants to do is make a filtered deck of cards forgotten in the past day and divide with that instead
>>
>>133952883
>>133952917
>>133952944
Forgot to mention I'm hitting good after failing a word once to move them to tomorrow. I'd estimate I remembered maybe half of those words after failing them once
>>
>>133952972
Oh, okay.
>>
>>133952762
Will do. Wait for me, /djt/.
>>
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>ただし、それで安心するのは早計だろう。子育て支援は、働く女性が仕事と子育てを両立するための保育・子育てサービスの拡充である。安心につながる社会保障の例示としては、介護離職ゼロが挙げられている。親族の介護のために仕事を辞めなくてもよいようにサポートするのが、介護離職ゼロの意味である。ともに、女性やシニア層が労働参加できる環境づくりのことを「1億総活躍」と言っている。
I miss compelling content
>>
is there a website that can check my Japanese sentence grammar?
>>
>>133953091
leddit will help :^)
>>
I'm pretty sure this article is about convincing the elderly to join the work force, I feel gross reading this. I miss moege
>>
How often do you folks practice? An hour a day? More? By practice here I mean sitting down and studying / doing anki or reading for the purpose of learning. I am just starting out to learn more vocab and Kanji outside of the random shit I've learned in games and I think an hour a day is good but I'm struggling to find the time.
>>
>>133940526
So, basically no one can actually read.
>>
>>133953195
Basically people picked a meme option
>>
>>133953170
Studying as much as you can fine. It's mainly a slow burn of accumulating kanji and vocabulary so as long as you do it daily, consistently, you'll be fine in the long-term, even if you can't find a lot of time to study in the short-term.
Listening to audiobooks and whatnot is something you can do alone with other activities such as driving, doing chores, etc.
>>
>>133953091
/int/.com
>>
>>133953246
Audiobooks in japanese or audiobooks on how to learn japanese?
>>
>>133953297
What is the point of listening to audiobooks on how to learn japanese?
>>
>>133953335
To feel like you are learning Japanese while not learning anything
>>
>>133953335
Ideally to learn japanese when you're a beginner and can't yet understand enough to go by just japanese.
>>
>>133953170
you should try to aim for the average time studied in a normal japanese class that is like 3 hours and 1 to 2 hours of homework
>>
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>>133952709
I think it's cute that there's a word for this.
>>
>>133953380
Here's your audiobook:
>Learn the kana. Now. Done? Read a grammar book. Try to remember the important words like the question words and pronouns, but don't fret. Done? Start learning vocabulary. Got a hundred words? Read [Hanahira!]. Done? Keep reading.
>>
>>133953297
Three possibilities of Japanese audio, in rough order of usefulness to a beginner (imo)
1) Podcasts like Japanesepod101 that explain the Japanese they're using and gradually phase out English over time
2) Spoken "articles"; essentially you read a 3-4 paragraph article, looking up the words, then you download an audio version of it and listen to it over and over, gradually recognizing more and more. Steve does this and Lang-8 is filled with articles/audio
3) Plain audiobooks / native Japanese podcasts, not really useful if you understand 0% but getting exposed to the language is always better than NOT being exposed to the language
>>
>>133953428
You can create new words at will, so it isn't really that special. I'm sure you'd love how the Germans fart out new compound words out of their arse non stop.
>>
>>133953428
I thought it was a dish.
>>
>>133953424
4-5 hours a day? I'd rather get more than 3 hours sleep.

>>133953459
Thanks.

>>133953461
Yeah that all makes sense, it's pretty much what I was thinking in my head.
>>
>>133953498
For words to really matter people have to keep using them, it has to be a social phenomenon basically, cat-pans were a phenomenon in Japan but not America/England, which is neat.
>>
I've got a couple question about how you are supposed to study with Anki.

Are you supposed to memorize all the new cards you get pretty much completely the first day you get them? And then the reviews are just their to solidify the memory?

Or are you supposed to memorize them as best you can and not really worry if you forget because they are going to come up in reviews later on?

I've been almost completely memorizing 40 new cards a day but it takes me a few hours and I'm not sure if I'm going to hard in the paint so to speak.
>>
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>>133953510
>>
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Fuck me, I'm not adding 30 new out of context word into my shitty "mining" deck again.
>>
>>133953582
I just memorize them the best I can. I go over them before hand in preview mode and write them down. Then I hit 10 min, after the 10 min I 30 min them, then I hit 1 day. I do 5-10 cards at a time and have like 90%+ retention on young cards.
>>
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ダグラス・有沢の法則
How profound
>>
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>>133953780
I never asked for this
>>
>>133953920
If you are the anon I think you are then you did explicitly ask for this.
>>
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>>133953044
要約すると「私は細かいことはよく知らないから、具体的なことに興味があったら、1億総活躍でググってみてね。」だとおもうよ。おにいちゃん
>>
>>133953920
Doesn't look hard desu.
Just be good at math and then fill in the rest of the gaps in your understanding using the katakana loanwords. Almost no Japanese knowledge required.
>>
>>133954074
>Almost no Japanese knowledge required.
Nice meme
>>
>>133954001
You're right, I asked for this, but I'm not glad I got it
>>
>>133954027
あ、そうです。有難う後妻ます!(did I say that right? I don't know the kanji, i just trusted the keyboard..)
>>
>>133954578
ありがとうございました
if you're seriously not joking
>>
>>133954648
took from reddit
>>
>>133950048
I just realized that Japanese have a shitton of words for it.
>>
>>133954578
有難う御座います
Unless you're actually writing a novel you will look like a retarded gaijin who just discovered IME if you write it in kanji though
>>
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I'm still pretty fresh in my learning. Working on Hiragana still, but I want to have it down before moving onto Katakana, and after cementing that, going on to vocab/grammar/kanji.

Would transcribing Romaji song lyrics into Hiragana, and the same in reverse, be good practice? I've heard it's best to avoid Romaji as soon as possible, but I can't think of a better way.
>>
>>133955093
You are wasting your time if you're giving kana more than a day each. It is so common that you're going to pick it up while studying even if you don't specificaly try to learn in.
>>
>>133955093
Either use Remember the Kana if you want mnemonics or use realkana to grind it. You will use hiragana so much it becomes second nature within a few weeks. Just make sure to keep up on katakana while doing vocab since you won't see it as much.
>>
any advice for someone with a lot of free time that can be spent learning? i want to progress as fast as possible, so i can start reading things. i already know kana. i tried the core deck awhile back, but the vocab never stuck with me.
>>
>>133955267
If you can't learn vocab, then you can't read.
My tip: stop being a faggot.
>>
>>133955093
Just grind realkana and then give some special attention to the ones you can't seem to remember
>>
>>133955267
You can't learn Japanese.
>>
>>133955093
You're giving it too much thought. Just grind on realkana for a while then expose yourself to Japanese text through grammar guides, manga, anime, DJT, whatever.
>>
>>133955267
You're fucked unless you want to jump straight into reading and look up every single word or some shit like that.

Experiment with methods to get better retention in anki is my suggestion, then after a base of 2-3k words move on to reading.
>>
>>133955093
WRITE IT IN YOUR MOTHER FUCKIN NOTEBOOK 50 MOTHER FUCKIN TIMES
>>
>>133955558
You bitch.
>>
>tfw gotta study but don't feel like reading anything
>>
>open namasensei's video
>political rant out of nowhere
>>
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How many of you already have a second language? I'm curious because having one has helped me a lot in understanding certain Japanese words and sentence structures

http://strawpoll.me/6096231
>>
>>133956048
I'm russian, english is my second language and knowing it didn't do dick in helping me learn japanese. Aside from broadening the range of learning resources available, of course.
>>
>>133956102
Russian is my second language and I've occasionally found it easier to translate certain ideas from Japanese to Russian than from Japanese to English.
I've never actually read a single fucking thing in Russian, though.
>>
>>133956273
>I've never actually read a single fucking thing in Russian, though.
Crime and Punishment, anon, get on that.
>>
>>133956273
I've found russian to be way closer to japanese in pronunciation than english. No weird bullshit, letters simply correspond to sounds. Russian alphabet has all possible japanese sounds and they are pronounced almost exactly the same (except h/f, n/m and a couple of others), so you don't have to rape your mouth to pronounce weird alien sounds.
>>
>>133956585
Is that a problem for amerikajin?
>>
>>133956585
The only alien rape sound in Japanese, I think, from an English perspective, is ふ? That's the only one I struggled to wrap my head around.
>>
>>133956273
Aside from obvious classical literature, some soviet comedies and fairy tale movies are breddy gud too. I can name a few if you're interested.
>>
>>133956784
its just.. fu..
>>
>>133956810
ふむ sounds exactly like "hmm"
>>
>>133956789
Go ahead. My vocabulary's a little too sparse for Dostoevsky but I can cope with cartoons and movies.
>>
>>133956816
FU MU
FU AS IN FOOT
MU AS IN THE SOUND THE COW MAKES
>>
>>133956851
Very useless post I'm afraid
>>
>>133956863
you too
>>
>>133956875
By saying what everyone was thinking I saved others the effort of posting.
>>
>>133956750
>>133956784
Listen to that burger vocaroo that starts with "watashi no nihongo ha..." and you have your answer.
>>
>>133956889
me too
>>
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「ふ」の発音は、日本人も、ちょっと発音しにくい、と思ってるとおもうよ。
>>
>>133957072
FU AS IN FOOT
>>
>>133957177
retard
>>
>>133957190
MU AS IN THE SOUND THE COW MAKES
>>
>>133957211
literally the simplest shit to remember what the fuck
>>
>>133942168
You can't.
>>
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逸らす
逸れる
逸する
逸らかす
逸す
逸る
逸る
>>
>>133957353

ああ
嗚呼
嗚呼嗚呼
>>
>>133956849
Soviet comedies:
1. Операция «Ы» и другие приключения Шурика. "Operation [letter not available in english] and other adventures of Shurik" A slapstick-y comedy about a goofy and good-natured university student.
2. Кавказская пленница, или Новые приключения Шурика. "[female] Prisoner of the Caucasus and other new adventures of Shurik" Continuation of the previous one.
3. Бриллиантовая рука. "The Diamond Arm" Comedy of situations about smugglers.
4. Гусарская баллада. "The hussar ballad" Reversetrap in the military.
5. Иван Васильевич меняет профессию. "Ivan Vasilyevich changes his profession" Time travel comedy.
6. На Дерибасовской хорошая погода, или На Брайтон-Бич опять идут дожди. "It's sunny on Deribasovskaya street. It's raining again on Brighton Beach". An over the top parody of a spy movie.

Fairy tales:
1. Двенадцать месяцев. "The Twelve Months" A fairy tale about New Year.
2. Кощей бессмертный. "The immortal Koschei" Hero saves the kidnapped princess from an immortal Lich.
3. Варвара - краса, длинная коса. "The beautiful Varvara with a long braid". Hero falls in love with the daughter of a sea demon.
4. Морозко. "Morozko" Again, New Year fairy tale.

Just great movies:
1. Семнадцать мгновений весны. "Seventeen Moments of Spring" Serious WW2 spy series about a russian spy implanted deep in SS.
2. Шерлок Холмс и Доктор Ватсон. "Sherlock Holmes and Doctor Watson". Russian adaptation of the books. Objectively best.
>>
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>mfw i just remembered to add 嗚呼 for two more kanji on the kanji grid
That brings it up to 2,805. Almost 3,000, bros
>>
>>133957477
can you read manga and watch anime without subs?
>>
>>133957516
Certain manga and anime. I don't think I could follow LOGH but I've been watching Onii Sama E and it's pretty easy. I'm still learning, of course.
>>
>>133956851
ふ is not fu. It's like a weird halfway point between a hard f and h. If you're pronouncing ふ the same way you would in foot (which doesn't even work in different accents) you're doing it wrong. This is simple shit anon.
>>
>>133957727
the hiragana ふ is pronounced fu
what the fuck are you on about you knob head
>>
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>>133957461
Спасибо, посмотрю после аниме
>>
>>133957727
He's probably quoting that drunk faggot who made those shitty videos.
>>
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>>133957778
>>
daily reminder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGNuJt1K45A
>>
おやすみなさい
>>
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>>133957353
よく使うのは、と選ぼうかなとおもったけど、どれもつかわないよ。

>>133957727
>>133957766
たとえば「とうふ」
英語なまりの発音”Tofu”は
かなり変。通じるけどね。

>>133959028
えいえんにな!(ちゅうにきゅぴん)
>>
>>133959214
Different English speaking nations pronounce "Tofu" differently and in so there isn't really an accurate generalisation for how things are pronounced in "英語". You're going to either have to be more specific or stop shitposting like a retard, Finfag.
>>
>>133959537
Who took a shit in your cereal this morning, jesus
>>
the fact that the people creating new threads don't link them in the old one is triggering my autism
>>
>>133959579
Fuck off shitposter and learn to sage.
>>
>>133956784
I see English folks having a hard time with らりるれろ all of the time.
>>
>>133959691
like what the pronunciation? The R rolls?
>>
>>133959710
Yes, the pronunciation. It's not uncommon to see somebody asking for tips on how to pronounce it here.
>>
>>133959600
DJT is typically only created AFTER the old thread 404's. Learn to use the catalog.
>>
>>133959753
ra ri ru re ro
easy
>>
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>>133959691
>汚いアングロではない感じ。
>私の言語で「らりるれろ」の発音は日本語と同じです。
いい感じだな~。
>>
>>133957353
逸らす and 逸れる are the most common to see written in kanji, I think. 逸らす is what I see most anyway. Still often see written in kana though.

>>133959691
This was always my most difficult. Not really individually but saying られる was a bit of a mouthful initially.
>>
>teach you 後
>teach you 片付け
>both of these are a part of Core 2k

I can understand all of these really fucking obvious words, since sometimes words aren't what you would logically believe them to be, but was 後片付け really a necessary entry? I'd imagine that the Japanese themselves probably hear it as exactly what it sounds like: 後・片付け
>>
>>133957766

Only someone who hasn't had much experience with Japanese with make that statement. Sometimes, the "f" is unmistakable and very easy to pick out, but other times, it sounds far closer to "hu" than an English "fu". If you're listening for a very hard, distinctive "fu", you're going to find yourself missing some dialogue.
>>
>>133951108
Respectable jobs require you to be a normie, not something you can put daily, systematic effort into.

Learning Japanese doesn't.
>>
>>133952083
>Literally one of the hardest instruments

Didn't stop him learning one of the hardest major languages for a native English speaker
>>
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>ふにゃふにゃ

がんばって、発音してみてね。意味は、カチンカチンの反対だよ。
>>
>>133956851
>fu as in foot

How the fuck are you pronouncing foot?
>>
>>133961033
>reading u as a

lmao at you english speakers and your retarded language
>>
>>133961133
Literally, what?
>>
>>133961183
yoU're Utterly retarded
>>
Do you think Hiroyuki looks at this thread and laughs at out pathetic attempts to lean Jap while he mines our user data?
>>
>>133961246
He probably shikoshikos to it
>>
>>133961183
Fucking anglo scum.
>>
>>133961208
What the fuck (foock?) are you even talking about

>>133961366
The colonies pronounce foot differently than the overseers?
>>
>>133939862
>practice, practice, practice
>said while browsing the internet and not playing quake 3
>hand not even on the fucking keyboard
>>
>>133961133
You're retarded. The difficulty with ふ is not its vowel, it's its consonant.
>>
>>133961512
there you go
>>
>>133959691
>らりるれろ

I also struggle with
おう
やっつ
いい
よっか / ようか

Being American is suffering
>>
>>133961622
lmao @ ur lyf

but fo real though watch more anime, youre gonna need the compelling content to get used to the sounds, after that its easy
>>
Reminder that you haven't learned Japanese unless you've given up at least once. To humble yourself and relearn the basics that slipped away from you is a true test of willpower.
>>
>>133961622
>おう
How can you struggle with that? It's literally saying お and holding it for a bit longer.
>>
>>133961678
Is that what you tell yourself to help you bear the shame of that time you gave up?
>>
>>133961615
useless post
>>
>>133961678
>7 and counting
I'll learn Japanese. One day. A very far and distant day.
>>
These threads are getting worse. We should have a vote on whether or not to continue creating them.
>>
>>133961750
heres you (you)
If you don't like them, fuck off
They've been of great many help to me the past couple months
>>
>>133961750
We're actually discussing Japanese. This is a high point.
>>
>>133961133
Foot is pronounced like "hut", but with an "f" instead of a "h".

It's not pronounced like "flute" missing an "l".
>>
>>133961678
Getting ready to quit for the 3rd time

This time will be for good though
>>
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>>133961780
>>
>>133961780
I like to think they're just acting retarded. But there's a lot of ESL here... so I wouldn't be surprised if they pronounced "foot" like "food"...
>>
>>133961794
How far are you into the process?

I'm pretty sure I'm burning out too.
>>
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>>133961780
>Foot is pronounced like "hut", but with an "f" instead of a "h".
>It's not pronounced like "flute" missing an "l".
>>
>>133961750
I couldn't have gotten where I am without these threads. They've given me a lot of help and above all motivation to keep going. That's why I continue to come here and try to support people as best as I can. If you don't like the threads you should just leave. Beneath the surface of shitposting and pointless arguing there are actually people here who are serious about learning and who want to help and be helped.
>>
>>133961818
Where are you from that pronounces the "oo" in foot as like "u" in flute? The only place I can think of that would do that is Manchester, since that's how they say "look" and "book".
>>
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>ESLs teaching improper English in order to get across incorrect concepts about Japanese
>>
>>133961857
I love you
>>
>>133961780
>futt
>fute

IT'S FOOT YOU MAGGOT

F OO T
FOOT AS IN SOOT
FOOT AS IN INPUT
FOOT
>>
>>133961893
futbol?
futbol!!!!
>>
>>133961893
>FOOT AS IN INPUT
Why is this okay, but "foot as in hut" isn't? The "u" sound in input and hut are identical.
>>
>>133961893
>responding to obvious bait

just
>>
>>133961807
As regards ESL, Dutch especially, in general, exceed most native speakers, Americans especially, as far as grammar and well written sentences go, that's a known fact.
>>
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>>133961914
>The "u" sound in input and hut are identical.
>>
>>133961924
>As regards ESL
holy fucking kek i bet you're dutch
>>
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Best thread in ages

>>133961914
that's because you're retarded, its not inpat, its input jesus christ
>>
>>133961814
1 and a half years of casual (but still daily) learning on this latest go. 2400+ kanji, know a good deal of grammar, but my vocab is the weakest (1.5k). I just cannot force myself to learn new words anymore. I hate it.

I'm also not sure I can justify spending thousands and thousands of more hours getting my vocab up to 10,000 just so I can be really comfortable playing JRPGs and watching movies. Literature was another goal of mine, but that's another 5-10k on top of that.

Anki is really, really starting to make me hate my life and I'm brainwashed into believing it's the only way of learning effectively.
>>
>>133961924
>As regards ESL, Dutch especially, in general, exceed most native speakers, Americans especially, as far as grammar and well written sentences go, that's a known fact.

I'm guessing you're one of them because this sentence was a trainwreck
>>
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>>133961929
>ESLs
>>
>>133961924
>ESL exceed natives

Right, now I know you're a fucking retard.

>>133961929
>>133961942
Except he's literally correct...

Are you two Swedish or Dutch? It's always you lot who vastly overestimate your English abilities.
>>
>>133961942
>>that's because you're retarded, its not inpat, its input jesus christ
Yes, I know that. When did I ever say the "u" in "input" and "hut" made an "a" sound?

Try reading posts before replying to them in future if you don't want to look like an idiot, anon.
>>
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You people need more letters to express your vowels in English. Look at the mess you've brought upon us. People don't even understand the sounds they're hearing anymore because they immediately associate a word with how it's written.
>>
Oo in Foot is an uh sound
U in hut is a huh sound

It's hard to describe but they're different

Uh is more throaty and huh is more airy
>>
>>133961988
THEN YOU'RE PRONOUNCING HUT INCORRECTLY

BACK TO PRIMARY SCHOOL WITH YOU
>>
>>133943810
python
>>
>>133962024
>Anglo who can't even pronounce his own language
>>
хат
фут

инглиш из ретардед
>>
>>133961987
/a/ never fails to amaze me

hut = hʌt
input = ɪnpʊt

The letter u is pronounced differently
>>
>>133961987
No, I'm a fucking Freedomson motherfucker, and by the hamburger invested in my by my British forebears, input and hut are not pronounced the same. One of them rhymes with foot, and the other rhymes with putt-putt.
>>
>>133962052
>everyone pronounces shit the same way

ESL detected
>>
>>133962052
I'm convinced its one retard bating, no ones this retarded right

>>133962083
You're pronouncing it incorrectly then you mong
>>
>>133962058
There we go
>>
I'm pretty sure foot, soot, and input are the only words in the English language with that pronunciation
>>
>>133962134
Kaput :^)
>>
>>133962024
So you pronounce "hut" as "hat" then?

Where are you from? Or are you just taking the piss now?
>>
>>133962153
Oh you

So that's four, any others?
>>
american midwestern native english speaker, input and hut have a different u sound, suck my cock you fags
>>
>>133962134
b-boot?
Kooch?
pooch?
butch?

>>133962161
>hat
>not het

I'll piss in your mouf
>>
>>133962093
>You're pronouncing it incorrectly then you mong

You remind me of those Japanese intermediates who tell people from Osaka that they pronounce things wrong because they only learned standard Tokyo pronunciation and have no concept of dialects and regional accents.

>>133962134
That /u/ sound is common as fuck, cuvk.
>>
>>133962161
Hut sounds like putt, butt, rut, cut, nut

Foot sounds like put, soot, kaput, input
>>
ESL here, is this correct?

Group Hut: hut, truck, mud, sludge, fudge, cup, cum, lump, under

Group foot: foot, moot, could (the oul as a whole makes the sound), should (same), book, put

Group food: food, lewd (the ew as a whole makes the sound), tomb, sew, grew, spoon, through
>>
>>133962161
No, the correct pronunciation of hut is hʌt. Are you telling me you pronounce hut as huːt (hoot) ?
>>
>>133962052
>>hut = hʌt
>input = ɪnpʊt
[citation needed]
>>
>>133962224
ge in da fookin hoot m8 gona rip ya a noo wa
>>
http://vocaroo.com/
>>
>>133962189
They do pronounce it wrong you retard, what do you think a dialect is? Because people slur or speak in slang you think it's correct?
>>
>>133962236
>>>/wikitionary/
>>>/any dictionary with pronunciation included/
>>
>>133962188
>b-boot?
>Kooch?
>pooch?
>butch?

Butch/Butcher. The others, hell no.

>>133962210
>Group Hut: hut, truck, mud, sludge, fudge, cup, cum, lump, under

Yes>>133962210
>Group foot: foot, moot, could (the oul as a whole makes the sound), should (same), book, put

Right, except for moot. Moot belongs in the food group.

>Group food: food, lewd (the ew as a whole makes the sound), tomb, sew, grew, spoon, through

Right, except for sew, which is pronounced liked so, tow, row, bow
>>
>>133962210
Here's a hint. Never, ever ask people (especially natives) about their opinions on pronunciation. They are inherently biased towards prestige dialects or their regional dialect.

>>133962276
According to every single academically renowned linguist on the planet, yes, they are completely, 100% correct.

Being a pleb falling for the "prestige dialect" meme makes you an uneducated retard
>>
>>133962189
>That /u/ sound is common as fuck, cuvk.

It's not used in any of the words in that sentence, though.
>>
>>133962263
I'm too scared I need someone to post first
>>
>>133962345
DO IT FAGGOT
>>
>>133962206
As a Native English speaker from N.England, all these sounds are identical to me.

This is why muh IPA fags like >>133962052 >>133962285 are so retarded. The concept of different regions pronouncing words differently doesn't factor into IPA.
>>
>>133962263
I'd do this if I had a mic.
>>
>>133962376
thanks for beta testing english for us you dipshit eurokek, we'll take it from here ;)
>>
>>133961943
I think I'll give up after reading that. We're not going to make it.
>>
>>133962302
>Moot belongs in the food group
Yeah that was a mostly a guess.
>sew, which is pronounced liked so, tow, row, bow
My world has been turned upside down.

Curse you English language.
>>
>>133962376
>new englanders
>speaking English

Well there's your problem. You people don't believe in half the sounds in English.
>>
>>133962406
i think he meant northern england
>>
>my inbred region pronounces this differently so it's also correct this way
can we please fucking stop, you cuvks can't learn japanese anyway
>>
>>133962406
N.England = Northern England.
>>
>>133962376
English is an international language and the international standards of pronunciations are what people discuss when they say "how a word is pronounced". Your hick dialect (which is probably already slowly succumbing to a more standardized English like most dialects everywhere) is irrelevant.
>>
>>133962439
>>133962433
Northern England?

So... Scotland?
>>
>>133962436
Maybe we can't learn Japanese but I'm sure we can have a suitable command of the English language at least
>>
>>133962210
I don't like correcting minor pronunciation errors because they're irrelevant as fuck when it comes to comprehension and just leads to retarded arguments based on how people grow up speaking (this thread being a major example of that)

However, just a couple of notes here that really do affect comprehension

.>Group foot: moot

moot should be in group "food". It's not pronounced like "foot" at all.

>Group food: sew

If you mean where you "sue" someone for money, then that's correct

If you mean the act where you use a needle and thread to mend clothes, then "sew" is pronounced more like "so"
>>
>>133962376
I can assure you, no one teaches English internationally with your so called "correct" pronunciation.
>>
>>133962457
Scotland and England are different countries, my burger-loving friend.
>>
What're you hosers talkin' aboot, eh?
>>
>>133962399
You should have seen the thread yesterday or the day before

Some dude here learned nearly 10k words, and still couldn't read a newspaper, or watch movies, or read posts on forums about people discussing current affairs.

That was a bit of a motivation killer. Least he was being realistic though, unlike the 50 million language blogs about only needing "3000 words to understand 95% of content" meme
>>
>>133962501
eh bud these johny cock suckers tryina teach em how to speak the great ol' Canadian language eh
>>
>>133962497
I didn't realize england was so tall

I though Scotland came... further in

So to my mind saying northern Scotland was like saying northern London


Like, the fuck, you're ten feet from central and southern
>>
English rhymes with benis :DDDDD
>>
Why the fuck do we have non-Americans on 4chan in the first place? Leave.
>>
>>133962511
He probably didn't do his grammar
>>
>>133962577
THIS IS JAPANESE BOARD
WHITE MAN LEAVE AND DIE
>>
>>133962496
I can assure you that no one who learns English internationally has pronunciation so good that they can worry about "foot" and "hut"
>>
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>ふがふが

fugwafugwa・・・発音できるよ!きっとできるよ。
>>
>>133962577
Нет.
>>
>>133962511
That's what fucking happens when you grind core 10k in 6 months without looking at a grammar resource or actually trying to read native content.
>>
>>133962577
There are more Yuropoors on 4chan than Burgers.
>>
>>133962583
>>133962617
He did learn grammar. He spent all of his learning time reading VNs and shit

The issue is very few people here understand just how many words and hours you need to actually be able to comfortably using Japanese.

It's really not a meme when people say Core6k is just the beginning
>>
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>>133962602
>gwa
なにそれ
>>
How many English words do you guys think you have in your vocabulary ?
>>
>>133962548
We're a tiny island. It's one of the first things you realise about this country. Especially considering how much of the world this tiny island used to own.
>>
>>133962681
The issue is people thinking that a pace of 20 words a day is viable.
>>
>>133962726
All of them
>>
>>133962590
>this is what English natives actually believe
People make fun of your crazy pronunciations/spellings because they're a freaking mess, not because they're impenetrable.
>>
>>133962726
35k I reckon.
>>
>>133962726
Probably 95% of what I have in my native language.
>>
>>133962739
Impossible
>>
>>133962735
It is if you read a lot. Anki really shouldn't be your primary word absorption method after doing coreXk.
>>
>>133962740
>ESLs thinking they have any say in regards to the pronunciation of English

Leave Dutch boy. Of coursh, you probably shound like Shean Connery when you shpeak.

We all laugh at you for that.
>>
>>133962735
fuck off i can barely get 10 in, its not about how fast i can learn Japanese, its about actually learning it
>>
>>133962726
I couldn't even guess. I use words that other people don't understand fairly often, but I don't know where I picked up a larger than average vocabulary from since I've never been one to read books (the only ones I've read are the ASOIAF series and American Psycho).
>>
>>133962802
It's all about retention for me. I can learn 50 words, but I'll retain about 3 of them.

10 is the sweet spot.
>>
>>133962726
I'd say just over 20k words. Does jp have a lot more words than eng? Hard to believe that a guy with 10k words learned is still unable to read news paper.
>>
>>133962726
Probably not as much as I think I know.
>>
>>133962735
Are you saying that's too slow or too fast?
>>
>>133962726
lots
>>
>>133962827
Japan doesn't have a lot more words, however, Japanese uses a lot more words.
>>
>>133962709
鼻濁音だよ。がんばってね。おにいちゃん
>>
>>133962726
Some random online test gave me 28900.
>>