/who/ - Doctor Who General

>>82988809
Heyy everyone it's Joe from Joey's World Tour

If my eyes aren't real, how can /who/ be real?

IT WAS ALL A DREAM
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>>82988869
>We're all just in the simulated world from Silence in the Library, shitposting on a simulated imageboard

>>82988809
Watching Extremis now on BBCAmerica.

I don't understand anything that's going on.
Capaldi is already hard to understand sometimes, who thought to bring in Italian accents?

>>82988809
Am I glad that we're not real, and the veritas is out there and the Monks are the Sheriff, and we're out there, and what I wanna know is, where's the caveman?

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POST ECCLESTONES NAO

>>82988948
>I don't understand anything that's going on.
What do you mean? You're not really meant to understand what's going on until you've seen the whole thing. It's a mystery

I'm new to the world of Doctor Who beyond the TV stuff. I'm also new to /who/ itself. So, can anyone tell me what the fuck VNA is? Is it actually dark or is it an ironic meme?

>>82989090
http://doctorwhogeneral.wikia.com/wiki/Virgin_New_Adventures

If you're a powerful alien race that has technology powerful enough to simulate billions of different people, personalities, memories and things down to the atomic level, and you're running simulations, why would you not delete a mysterious book that exposes that the subjects in you simulations are simulants?

Why would you not have the ability to delete this book? Why would this book even exist as if you simulated the world back in Pope Benedicts time and ran it into current day? Why would you need to actually go into the program and grab the book as if you can't just give yourself alien powers that let you get it much easier and faster? Fuck why not freeze the simulation and grab it?

>>82988969
I had a dream about a special episode where it was promoted that Tennant and Smith were both back and it was 35 minutes of Ecclestone with 10 minutes of Capaldi, only featuring Tennant and Smith.
Damn sad it was a dream

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY_BkmUKiOQ

>>82989000
>What do you mean? You're not really meant to understand what's going on until you've seen the whole thing.
Oh, my bad, I'm watching it for the first time. I hate when movies and TV shows do that shit though.

>>82989125
The answer, in my mind, is to root out possible threats. Whose clever enough to discern that they're in a simulation? Insert character here? Well, they might be a problem when we attempt to invade.

What I didn't get is how is the world being simulated such a depressing notion? In the end the only things that are truly "real" are they that we ourselves grant the validity of reality, a purportedly simulated world is no less real than the world we hold to be real.

>>82989125
My headcanon is that they are projecting the reality itself. They arent in control of it.

>>82989110
Much obliged.

>>82989090
They were a line of novels meant to be a direct continuation of the TV show during the Wilderness Years. They're also the only canon Who stories ever created.

>>82989125
why can the simulation send broadcasts out to the real world? isn't the whole point of a simulation is that it's isolated?

>>82989257
Ah, see, now this is an interesting point. Why not have episodes set in China? Or Ethiopia? Really makes you wonder.

The answer, of course, is that "diversity" is simply a means to an end.

>>82989125
The thing that's stumping me is why there would be any possible way of someone within the simulation contacting the outside world. That would surely be one of the most important things to account for. They couldn't just run the thing on a system with no built-in wirless communications? What gives?

>>82989353
Because it's much cheaper to film in Cardiff and pretend it's London.

>>82989125
Some kind of butterfly effect? You're removing matter, affecting cause and effect, etc. Might mess with the simulation in weird ways.

wats in the vault?

>>82989125
Because maybe the method they use to create this simulation leads to them not having complete control of it?

Have you seen the Matrix?

>>82989217
But removing those from the simulation doesn't remove their real counterparts from Earth. If anything removing them is the worst thing they could do, as they underestimate/eliminate their only credible threat and thus the simulation is pointless.

Is there some kind of /who/ master recommendations list for Big Finish or should I just fuck off to /r/ or Google or something?

>>82989456
They can make and do make changes in the matrix though. They made those walls appear to trap the team in the first movie for example, and fixed up the whole city in the last movie.

That's why there's deja vu, like a cat that passes by twice.

Big changes will be seen so they don't do that, but things like a book, hell yeah they can change that.

>>82989422
lol it's a fucking computer, removing matter isn't gonna do anything or cause and effect. Letting the book be exposed and keep being exposed ruins the whole simulation which is supposed to be about you trying to take everything over. All they ended up doing was letting the Doctor broadcast when the first thing to do when it got emailed and out of their control was to end the simulation. What's the point of having the physical book if it's already out on the internet?

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>Cybermen don't just blow themselves up for no good reason, dear. They're not human.
Is this one of Moffat's best gags ever?

>>82989402
If they can do spaceships and the wild west, they could throw in a legitimate ethnic story every once in a while. I think the /pol/ posters are insane, but that one guy had a point.

>>82988809
I've only really seen New Who, was the classic show this dramatic?
And I really enjoyed Series 5 and 6, but I wish the show was more episodic again like the RTD era.

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Shouldn't River still have this? She took it with her to the library. If Nardole came straight from Derilium, how could he have it?

>>82989396
I've seen headcanon that their simulation is so good that the Doctor's sonic sunglasses like the real thing presumably was able to get reach outside of the sandbox.

>program simulation of 5 billion years of earth's history
>every human shares the same rand generator instance
those aliens deserved to fail

>>82989673
>expecting continuity from Moffat

>>82989462
But the Monks weren't the ones removing them, they were committing suicide. Am I understanding you correctly?

>>82989498
There used to be a /who/ suggestion list somewhere. Lemme see if I can find it.

>>82989673
It was basically just sitting on a ledge somewhere in the library after she died, having it transported would be trivial.

>>82989736
They all died like Nardol and Bill did, I presumed.

>>82989266
So how does a book written in the early whatever it was century written about the aliens and the simulation they create suddenly come to exist if they're just projecting reality?

Why would reality already have that book about the simulation?

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>>82989498
Here it is. It's not really up to date, but it should be more than enough to get you started.

>>82989678
Sounds like bullshit. You know, at this point I'm fully expecting a "simulation within a simulation" twist next episode that accounts for all the weird stupidity.

>>82989673
He stopped by the Library on the way, or whatever. I kinda prefer they don't explain every tiny detail that most people won't give a shit about. Some shows get too bog down, and get tedious quickly.

Leave it to Moffat to write the worst episode of the season.

>>82989396
He was aware of the machine and took control from within it by exploiting the machine itself. A virus in a computer can control the computer to some extent. The Doctor was a virus, using his sonic "universal hacking tool" sunglasses he used their computer to send his recording to the real doctor.

>>82989790
Do you have a bigger image? It's impossible to read senpai

>>82989810
That would be fine if he didn't say, "followed you from Derilium."

>>82989546
Right but they don't have total control over it,only limited.

We don't even know the monks made the simulation with their tech. Maybe it just makes a blank copy of earth and then runs the sim from there and they can't affect it other than entering the sim themselves. We don't know anything.

Maybe The Doctor creates the Veritas next week with another bootstrap paradox.

>>82989879
Following the Doctor isn't something that can happen in a linear sense anyway, he has a fucking TARDIS.

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>>82988809
>lol i'm a fucking lesbian
>look how progressive i am

the entire staff at BBC, every jew, nigger, and faggot should be ovened.

>>82989831
Doesn't explain why the machine running the sim had any exploitable connection to other real-world systems, whether it was wired or wireless.

>>82989902
>Right but they don't have total control over it,only limited.
I would suggest they have as much control over it as we do of a computer program. We can shut the program down at any time, but if we leave it running and it does something we don't want before we manage to shut it down, what's done is still done.

>>82989828
Come on.... The Doctor Falls hasn't even aired yet, give it a chance at least

>>82989904
So 12 took a trip to the library right after River died and 10 left and the whole place was being evacuated because the library was full of things literally ready to eat anything that stepped foot in it after everyone left because?

>>82989879
Maybe he stopped by the library at some unknown point, picked up the book, went back to darillium to serve as a waiter inconspicuously for a bit, then when the Doctor left, traced him to the execution planet. Then went straight from Darillium to the Doctor.

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>>82989838

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I heard 12 is leaving soon. Will Bill also be leaving?

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>>82988809
>You are now aware that the simulation was an introduction to the timelord eye device.
>You are now aware he will certainly use it either in the next episode or by the finale.
>You are now aware the result will be the creation of the Valeyard.

It's really happening /who/, he's really coming.

>>82989838
>>82990040
Beat me too it.

>>82990040
You're doing the Lord's work.

>>82990031
The Doctor? risk his life for a nostalgic keepsake? I don't think that's out of character at all, actually. Especially 12

>>82990041
It's extremely likely considering Chris Sex Gas Chibnall is taking over.

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>>82990040
Ayyyy that's much better, cheers

>Facebook fans will call this "the worst episode ever written"

On the topic, what did /who/ think of it?
http://www.strawpoll.me/13009315

Personally, I thought it was fucking amazing. Moffat really has changed his writing.

>>82989902
>Right but they don't have total control over it, only limited.

But they at least have very good control, the problems is changes have to be made very carefully because the people hooked in can't simply be changed or have their memories altered. They learn something they can spread it and if they know the Matrix is the Matrix, they learn to reject it. Matrix had lots of programs in charge of lots of every little thing, the only real big problem they had was when Smith turned all those programs and the people into himself but still they could beat Smith, just needed someone through whom they could link directly to him and already had code to resist him.

>with another bootstrap paradox.

Yet another reason I hate Moffat, timey wimey bullshit

>>82990110
will the sex gas be the new big bad of his first season? can we expect Bill to come back as a sexy cyberwoman in Chibnall's era? I'm excited

So if the sonic glasses were so real that they could send a message to the real sonic glasses wouldn't that mean the Tardis would be also real enough to take the simulation Doctor to the real world?

>>82989498
http://doctorwhogeneral.wikia.com/wiki/How_do_I_get_into_Big_Finish%3F

>>82990168
>http://www.strawpoll.me/13009315
There's another strawpoll already
http://www.strawpoll.me/13006813/r

>>82990180
No. Sending an email and 3D printing a TARDIS are rather different tasks.

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>>82990110
Holy shit, a new writer too? Is /WHO/ saved?

>>82990244
>new
No, spastic.

>>82989949
Maybe yeah, they can't recompile it live.

>>82990234
Oh wow, I didn't even check.

So how long have we been watching Simulated Doctor Who, rather than real Doctor who?

>>82990176
We have no idea how much control the monks have or if they even made the simulation themselves, just that they were using it to study earth to invade it.

So does the sim mean that they know how the tardis works?

>>82990180
> applying logic to doctor who
Okay, in all seriousness, sending information from the sunglasses is one thing, but actual physical matter is another. The data inside the glasses is real physical data. All the ones and zeroes in the code of the sunglasses are also ones and zeroes in the code of the simulation...


Maybe that still doesn't make sense, but since the Virtual Reality was (presumably) turned off, I don't think you're gonna get a better answer

>>82990297
about 45 minutes

>>82990304
From what the episode itself says they did make the simulations and have done many of them and killed the Doctor in a lot of them, until we learn otherwise, we have to go with them being the ones behind it.

>>82990297
We were only watching it for as long as Real Doctor was watching it, so 45 minutes.

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WARNING

WARNING

IMPACT IMMINENT

CONTACT WITH NULL ENERGY WILL RESULT IN TOTAL PLANETARY DESTRUCTION

RECOMMEND MAXIMUM THRUST UNTIL PLANET HAS ACHIEVED CLEARANCE

So why did Nardole followed the Doctor
was that some "Is bad for the Doctor to travel alone thing?"

>>82990180
Simulation Doctor is a construct made out of 0s and 1s. The message that he sends is also made out of 0s and 1s. Every simulation is tapped into the same virtual environment (when asked to randomly generate an integer each simulation generates the same one) suggesting that there is limited sandboxing and so he can send a message to the outside world because he's part of the simulation.

>>82990311
I mean they didn't apply the TARDIS translation circuit, so clearly they don't have a full understanding.

They did have access to the Doctor's memories, so they probably built the TARDIS from that

>You do seem to have an impressive record of fatalities credited to you
So these are deaths of the Doctor or deaths that the Doctor has caused?

>>82990429
Yeah I was like, fuck did Moff forget that the TARDIS translation circuits exist when the monks started talking in another language?

>>82990453
I assume the former. It freaked them out because he's died so many times but come back from them all, i.e. impossible to actually kill.

>>82990496
Deaths that the Doctor caused.

The Doctor said to look him up as "Cause of death"

>>82990423
>Simulation Doctor is a construct made out of 0s and 1s.

Human shit leave, you don't know how alien tech works. Might as well say we can hack their shit with no problems cause lol ones and zeroes

- why would a simulation have the projector inside itself

- why have portals in a simulation

- how did the simulation doctor email himself when he's a simulation

- how did moffat continue to get work

>>82990453
I was confused too. It's deaths the doctor has caused

>>82990461
I thought it was a clue about the virtual reality, but Steven Moffat did a mini interview about the episode, and the actual reason was he just thought italian would sound better

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-05-20/doctor-who-exclusive-steven-moffat-reveals-the-secrets-of-extremis

just finished watching Extremis and mama mia this was an interesting episode, Moffat really wants to go out with a bang

should've guessed that Missy was the one in the vault - Simmaster fucking when

were those flashbacks pre-Mysterio then, if so, how did the Doctor convince Nardole to go to NYC to investigate Harmony Shoal

what did /who/ think, are we hype for next week? we finally see the debut of Casual Untucked Red Shirt + Hoodie 12

I'm curious to see what the hell Episode 8 is gonna be about and what the reason is behind 12's raggedy coat

>>82989926
Any machine capable of simulating billions of self aware individuals probably has the ability to send off a signal of some kind even if unintentionally. Any kind of radiation emission, anything that can oscillate, just changing something to emit an electromagnetic pulse can be turned into a signal that can be interpreted. It might not have been intended for use that way but so long as you have a method for sending out a 1 or a 0 you can transmit data.

Overclock one of the processors, make it faster, then slower, then faster again, etc. If the processor emits radiation then you have a signal. Not the best example but an alien computer would have tons of crazy ass shit that can probably be made into a transmitter through the software alone.

>>82990535
Moffat can't conceive of what alien tech would look like because he is human and the only experiences that he has is with human technology, retard.

He can combine ideas and enhance them or diminish them but at the end of the day a unicorn is just a horse with a horn. Humans can't come up with anything they haven't experienced.

So if they're running lots of simulations. I'm imagining the doctor just getting DDoSed by thousands of simulation doctors.

>>82990535
It might not be actually binary, but "0s and 1s" is a good analogy for any information in a program, in this case the doctor and the simulation

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>>82990545
>- why would a simulation have the projector inside itself
I think it was more like the center or the begining
>- why have portals in a simulation
easily
>- how did the simulation doctor email himself when he's a simulation
Read previous posts
>- how did moffat continue to get work
MOFFAT A CUTE

>>82990545
>- why would a simulation have the projector inside itself
It didn't? Nardole dissolved because he went in the bit where the projectors weren't projecting.

>>82990600
>simulated 12 spam
>"KIDNEYS"
>"C L A L A"
>"fuckity hi"
>"TREES"

>>82990545
>- why have portals in a simulation
To get to different places easily, rather than slowly travelling there. The monks don't like taking the bus, people give them weird looks

>>82990551
>were those flashbacks pre-Mysterio then, if so, how did the Doctor convince Nardole to go to NYC to investigate Harmony Shoal
Some anon on the last thread theorized that the vault used to be kept inside the Tardis and was later moved into the university because it was too risky to keep it in the Tardis

>>82990545
Literally all three of those plot questions are retarded. That's actually impressive, you scored a hat trick. This takes me back to the S5 days of having to explain the plot to retards every single week

>>82990566
If it actually seemed like something along those lines was happening, that might be cool, but there was no indication in the episode that the Doctor had to do anything special. He just sent an "email".

>>82990604
So how do we know simulated sonic message is compatible with real sonic sunglasses?

And wouldn't this mean they can flood with shit or even hack the Doctor's sunglasses if they wanted since they're compatible? Or even the reverse?

>>82990631
>easily
easily acces to important places

>>82990545
>how did the simulation doctor email himself when he's a simulation
Everyone in that simulation is an aspect of the technology and probably he's a part of it that developed self awareness and was able to deduce the Doctor's actual personality based on the data he got. And presumably the system is designed so it can communicate (the monks have to receive the info somehow) so the simulation probably just redirected the communique to the real!Doctor.

>portals
I don't think of them as portals but as bookmarks or landmarks. So for example if you are hex editing you can jump to offsets and websites etc have indexes so you don't have to scroll through everything and scripts have comments so you know where they are.

>>82990551
This is my own extremely autistic explanation for the whole Nardole thing (pasted from last thread):

The Doctor put Nardole's head back on a body (as an android-type thing) WHILE on Darillium during the 24 year period.
Pretty much immediately after the 24 year night on Darillium (give-or-take a few days), the Doctor went to the planet seen in the flashbacks in "Extremis".
At the end of that 24 year night, River ordered Nardole to follow the Doctor (in a ship he must have gotten at some time in the 24 years).
Nardole first flew the ship to the Library (the Doctor had told Nardole in secret to go and get it at the end of the 24 years, as it would have to be collected and kept out of enemy hands) and picked up River's diary, literally seconds after 10 and Donna left.
Nardole then flew to the "Extremis" planet where the events of that flashback took place.
The Doctor and Nardole started travelling together, keeping the Vault inside the TARDIS, this is where the vault is during "For Tonight We Might Die" and "The Return of Doctor Mysterio".
After a close call, the Doctor and Nardole decided that it wasn't safe keeping the vault in the TARDIS, as if an enemy were to get inside the TARDIS, they could get to it.
This led the Doctor and Nardole to decide to take the vault to Bristol University, where the Doctor taught for about 70 years, all leading to the events of "The Pilot".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxTFPVwqqaE

>>82990719
>So how do we know simulated sonic message is compatible with real sonic sunglasses?
I don't think the Doctor knew for sure if it would work. He just hoped.

> And wouldn't this mean they can flood with shit or even hack the Doctor's sunglasses if they wanted since they're compatible? Or even the reverse?
Probably. Though I can imagine a lot of beings could hack the sunglasses. Maybe that'll happen next week, though I doubt it

>>82990719
The sonic doesn't exist. The simulated Doctor also isn't blind at all, he just thinks that he is blind since he is a simulation of the Doctor. That's why he can conveniently unfuck his eyes - he is literally justifying it to himself (like dream logic. The sonic is just a metaphor for the actual communication system that all of the simulated people are connected to (there is no telepathic connection, again dream logic).

>>82990759
>Back once again it's a rengade mistress

>>82990802
And the same thing with the wifi, that's all the simulated people realising that there is an underlying communications system that pervades the entire simulation - dream logic. They do recognise that it doesn't make sense.

>>82990837
with the ill behaviour

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>>82990802
I'm guessing he unfucks his eyes in some way before the end of this series

what if that's where pic related comes from - his eyes are fixed and he grins in a way that says "now it's time for you to get fucked up"

>>82990711
I doubt the average viewer would really care much less follow the logic behind turning a computer into a transmitter. I mean he made the joke in the library that it has wifi simply because it's a library. Most viewers probably just think "every computer is connected to wifi, so future computers and alien computers would be too!"

So if you want your head canon to make it more realistic then have at it. As for what we see in episode the Doctor was sitting there for who knows how long, and the sonic can interact with pretty much any tech alien or otherwise, in the universe. He might not have to do much on his end, once he gets the sonic to understand the system it's in, he just has to give it the data and let the sonic do the rest.

>>82990021
>And he can even visit most of them.

>can't visit Rose
>can't visit Donna

That's literally 2 out of 3 full-time companions. But he can still visit them "most" of them, can he?

Martha didn't leave JUST because he didn't fall in love with her, she left because her entire family were traumatised, which is something she warns Donna about as well in the Sontaran Stratagem.

> RTD and Harper did a great job making that feel hugely significant, but it's nonsense if you think about it for even a second.

Nice partial comparison. You're forgetting the Controller and "Lynda with a Y" from Satellite 5, Harriet Jones, Astrid, Chan Tho, River Song, the Hostess from Midnight - two of which would have been future companions - and those are just the people shown in the flashbacks. All people that died for the Doctor, or in his name. You could add many others, including Gwyneth from the Unquiet Dead, and all the people that died in Human Nature/ Family of Blood - and if RTD made a point to make it feel hugely significant, then good, because it should be to the Doctor, and his companions. People died. People's lives matter. And several of them seriously mattered to the Doctor. So it's not nonsense, if you think about it for a minute. In fact, if you think about it at all, it's the entire point of Doctor Who - celebrating humanity.

Fast forward to Demon's Run, and the Doctor doesn't even know the name of the soldier that died for him.

>the only happy ending for a Moffat companion is one the Doctor doesn't know about because

You mean apart from the Ponds, who lived happily together in New York and became successful authors until dying of an old, old age. Oh, and Brian was all right with it, there's a deleted scene that got cut for time. Look it up.

>>82990907
The biggest leap of logic in the entire episode is how he was 'borrowing from the future', it's a retarded idea that only makes sense is that it's something completely imaginary.

>>82990357
You can assume that but it's just an assumption. All I'm saying is we have no idea what level of control they'd have

>>82990952
it's a retarded idea that only makes sense is that it's something completely imaginary.
You mean like in a TV show?

>>82990021 →

http://screenrant.com/doctor-who-season-7-deleted-scene-ps-amy-rory-goodbye/

In the scene, Brian is seen watering the plants at Amy and Rory’s house when an older man knocks on the door and delivers a letter. The letter is from Rory – written years before his death in order to break the news to Brian that they will never see each other again as well as describe the life that Amy and Rory shared while stuck in the past. They were happy and, in 1946, adopted a son, Anthony Brian Williams, the old man who delivered the letter to Brian. The video closes with grandfather Brian and grandson Anthony hugging, presumably the start of another relationship that defies the boundaries of time and space. Basically business as usual on Doctor Who.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWU6XL9xI4k

>>82989243
>could you source those claims?
Sure. But first, I have to ask: if you've seen this repeatedly, and you don't have any actual knowledge of your own, why are you complaining that an episode doesn't live up to your preconceptions that you have no actual evidence for?

Anyway, "Black Settlers in Britain 1555–1958" by File and Power is probably the best overview. It's a bit out of date (1981), but it covers the general trends, and includes a huge collection of photos of legal documents, newspaper clippings, paintings, etc.

If you want stuff that's freely available online, I'd start with the Wikipedia article for "Black British" and look, not at the article itself, but at the sources referenced there. And then the same for the obvious pages linked from there.

I'm pretty sure you can find "Anecdotes of the Late Samuel Johnson" (and, more importantly, the appendix with their correspondence) by Hester Thrale at Project Gutenberg. While she was writing a couple decades earlier than the Frost Fair, I'm pretty sure you'd be surprised by what you read.

Or, if you just want a web page, http://www.historytoday.com/paul-edwards/black-personalities-georgian-england looks halfway decent. It's obviously a pop-history article rather than serious scholarship, and it focuses on the most surprising cases rather than the general case, but it should at least be a start.

>>82990973
He doesn't show himself doing it, we just have to take his word for it and he brushes it off too quickly like it's nothing. And he himself doesn't think there's anything weird about it. And somehow he just already knows the repercussions (all his future regenerations could be blind?)

so how many video games did they mention in this episode

>Super Mario
>Grand Theft Auto

Australia here, gonna watch the episode tonight. How shit is it?

>>82990297
Since The Mind Robber.

What, you seriously thought the ending of that made more sense as the Doctor actually escaping than the Doctor writing himself escaping and not realising he'd fallen into the Land of Fiction trap?

>>82991061
It's divisive, you might love it or hate it. Very mystery oriented, you won't quite know what's going on until the end. A little bit Moffaty and convoluted

>>82991061
Pretty decent Moffat.

>>82991061
Australian here, already watched it. Not brilliant but not boring. It's quite entertaining.

>>82990919
I get that viewers wouldn't want a long-winded explanation, but it's not as if DW is a stranger to technobabble. The Doctor doing something clever, then explaining it with fast-talk makes up a hefty chunk of NuWho and it's never put people off before.

As it is, it seems more like flawed logic than a conscious decision to skimp on some unnecessary detail. Still, not enough to make it an all-time worst episode. Hell, it's not even Moffat's worst. It's just not a great start to what I was hoping would be a particularly good story. Outside of the Missy stuff, the entire episode only really exists to introduce the Monks and give the Doctor some useful info, and it didn't do either of those things in an especially interesting or creative way.

>>82991017
>He doesn't show himself doing it
Off course he does he uses that machine thing he was making in the Tardis
>And he himself doesn't think there's anything weird about it
He travels trough time and space in a police box that's bigger on the inside, there aren't many things that he could find weird
> And somehow he just already knows the repercussions (all his future regenerations could be blind?)
He was just theorizing

>>82989909
Why don't you go cry about it on /pol/ with all the other little babies. Holy shit a lesbian character, fucking deal with it faggot. Nobody cares.

>>82991012
>Sure. But first, I have to ask: if you've seen this repeatedly, and you don't have any actual knowledge of your own, why are you complaining that an episode doesn't live up to your preconceptions that you have no actual evidence for?

Sure. But first I have to ask - What are you talking about? Where did I do that?

I was saying if you have diversity in Doctor Who, have diversity that makes sense, something that acknowledges the ugly realities of racism - and that means a) not showing black people where they didn't exist, and b), when you do show them, don't ignore the historical context.

I didn't really think one throwaway line by the BADDIE in Thin Ice cut it. It wasn't just bad people that were racist, which is what makes Human Nature and Family of Blood so great. Everybody's fucking racist, including the good, kind people - they are still incredibly intolerant and bigoted, like the nurse. This is good. It shows that not just evil people were racist. This does not happen in Thin Ice.

The one example I mentioned specifically was Robin Hood, not Doctor Who, but I did explicitly refer back to Steven Moffat's article, where he admitted writing people of colour into history where they wouldn't factually, accurately be, as though having multi-coloured background extras is progressive. An example from the show I remember, off the top of my head, is the Girl Who Died - but, again. The bigger problem is that you can do diversity right by doing it accurately, and they don't.

Finally, which of the sources that you provided proves that the Frost Fair occurred at a historically diverse period? Because that's what I fucked asked, and that's what you fucking asserted.

>>82991061
You will like it if you are not a pleb

>>82991235
When the TARDIS translation circuits aren't working?

>>82991039
I remember someone posting about a reference to Portal, but I think that was just them misreading a generic use of the word "portal".

>>82991280
what did you mean by this?

>>82991294
why are professional critics so thick

>>82991315
The TARDIS translations aren't working on the pope and the monks.

This suggests that something severe is up with the 'TARDIS' unless the Doctor is deliberately excluding Bill from the circuits.

This combined with the fact that he doesn't show himself doing anything and TLs don't exactly have any magical powers for borrowing stuff from their future without the TARDIS (okay they do have precog and some ability to map themselves onto the vortex), plus he brushes it off quickly and doesn't think that it's weird that he knows automatically the possibility that his future regens will go blind.

Again, I think there's a lot of suspicious dream logic going on in my opinion which would make it too unrealistic if not in the virtual reality.

First episode of the series that I haven't enjoyed.

After 5 episodes concentrating on solid storytelling and a focus on the characters (particularly Bill and the Doctor), we're suddenly thrown into an episode that can only be described as "full fat Moffat".

There's a high concept... and everything else in the episode is treading water until the episode can reveal how clever its twist is.

Bill, for the first time, suffers full-on Moffat sitcom companion dialogue. (The date scene could easily have been Danny and Clara's first date, or Amy and Rory, or even Vastra and Jenny, and it would have played out pretty much identically.)

It's just so... DULL.

"There is an ancient text..." Yeah, and the Doctor won't get anywhere near it until 20 minutes in, and won't actually "read" it for another ten minutes after that.

"Missy is about to be executed... by the Doctor!" Only she isn't, because we know he wouldn't do that.

We eventually get to the twist 35 mins in... but it's not really a "twist", as it's pretty much unrelated to the setup. We have half an hour of sitcom dialogue, and wandering through corridors, and repeated dialogue, and "quantum events" before we have a clue what it's supposed to be about.

And, intercut with this, is... "Oh, it's Missy in the vault, by the way," which we had all hoped wouldn't be that "twist" but all knew would.

Seriously disappointed by this as it's a full on "MOFFAT TO THE MAX!!!" in the middle of a series which had seemed to have realised why that's not a very good thing to be.

On the plus side - the performances were all excellent (and it was particularly nice to see not a second of Michelle Gomez's annoying "Mary Poppins" performance) and it was exceptionally well directed, designed and lit.

But it was well designed, well directed, well performed foam.

My first *major* disappointment of S10.
3/10.

(I won't be surprised by the lowest AI of the series so far, despite the mystifying high ratings here.)

>>82989909
The STATE of (you)

You need to take a break from the internet

>>82991061
It was an enjoyable episode. Wouldn't be in my top 10 worst capaldi episodes

>>82991495
>First episode of the series that I haven't enjoyed.
gr8 b8 m8
everyone knows the series has been shit until Extremis

>>82990545
>why would a simulation have the projector inside itself
It didn't. All the projectors were in one room in the real world.

>why have portals in a simulation
The portals are for the real aliens to travel in and out of the simulation.

>how did the simulation doctor email himself when he's a simulation
His simulation is a program running inside their computer. He hacked their computer from the inside and made their tech send out a broadcast to the doctor in the real world.

>how did moffat continue to get work
By writing Heaven Sent last season.

>>82991581
Well, that's your opinion.

>>82991628
That's /who/'s opinion

>>82991642
>we are hivemind meme
You know reality doesnt work this way

>>82991628
>le mean aristocrat capitalist gets punched in a 50% black london where racism is constantly mentioned but literally never exhibited because the writers were too scared to address it

>>82991642
Nah son. Extremis was piss. Filler waste of space that doesn't make sense. Why simulate the Veritas at all? Explain.

>>82991685
It was a bug.

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>>82991685
>Why simulate the Veritas at all

>>82991682
What's your point there?

>>82990875

Why, I never!

>>82991785
Edge, do you prefer Moffat or RTD?

>>82991713
I'm pretty sure they said in the episode that the Monks were deliberately simulating what would happen if the simulants became aware.

But why?

>>82991227
Fair point. I didn't mind the lack of explanation but I can see why some people consider it important.

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>>82991740
That it was an inherently flawed episode. For one the aristocrats and capitalists were two entirely seperate social stratas that opposed each other, see the whig-conservative split. Whigs were for free trade, laissez faire economics, and overall liberalisation. Conservatives were for preserving the status quo of a strong nobility.

This "quintessential bad guy" was simultaneously a capitalist who lived in a palace. I can forgive them for forcing the big black cock down our throat because that's "le right side of history", but this was just lazy fucking research.

>>82991725
the attack was about to happen next day
apparently other Doc put this safeuard procedures into the Vatican with the Female Pope, so if a simulation was going on, he would be promptly informed

So the simulated invasion never occurred, it was halted

>>82991685
>>82991713
>>82991725
Maybe they didn't purposefully put it in the program. The simulants independently discovered they were in a simulation and that was just a book about the test they used to prove it.

Maybe they didn't even know the book existed until the doctor got called in. They presumably had their eye on the doctor in the simulation since he's the sole defender of earth which they're trying to invade.

>>82991679
>>we are hivemind meme
>You know reality doesnt work this way
>reality
>Implying we're living in reality
If you ask a computer simulated person it's opinion on Extremis it won't truly be their opinion
if all the simulated people are part of the same computer program and they're all generate the same opinion, the exact same opinion

>>82990234
How the fuck are so many people giving it 10/10? It was good but it wasn't mind blowing or anything

>>82991840
Are you sure you are replying to the right person? Thin Ice wasnt outstanding and I didn't like how one-sided the villain is, but this episode still makes more sense, puts more risks and develops characters better than Extremis.

>>82991876
They had their eye on like, 12 places, judging by the holo-projectors, including the Vatican...for some reason. What kind of inefficient shite-useless alien invasion task force simulates an entire planet and then blithely ignores the specific areas they're choosing to simulate?

Also, why even simulate the Vatican?

Also, why did the bug appear as an ancient text with its own back-story, and not just an internet meme, or some shit?

Does not fucking compute.

>>82991805
I think both have their strengths, and they're equally good showrunners, so I like both of them. I prefer Davies because I have the fondest memories of Eccleston and Tennant (but I also love the beginning of Smith's run so I dunno).

>>82991923
I am, I'm just so fucking mad at how terrible Thin Ice was that I feel the need to drag it into every conversation about this series.

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>it's a "moffat shows he doesn't understand technology" episode

>>82991613
I will never understand the dicksucking Heaven Sent gets, it's the same garbage Moffat almost always writes

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>tfw 2 more monk episodes to sit through

>>82991949
You are just a nice guy, so you don't want to insult Moffat directly, or you just lower your standarts of doctor who when watching his era episodes, am I right?

>>82992018
>guy

>>82991965
Stories based on millenia old fables are always better because if the fables weren't good we wouldn't even have documented evidence of them today. Also added in the "sacrifice for the greater good" dynamic ×however many billion which made it poignant.

>>82991941
The portals were just doorways into the simulation. There was a portal to the vatican because that's where the aliens wanted to go in the simulation.

>>82991907
Capaldi and Mackie's acting were both superb, especially when the Doctor and Bill are having existential Crisis after existential crisis towards the end. I don't know if I'd quite give it 10/10, but combine great acting with an good plot, and for many people that makes for an amazing episode.

>>82992014
>inb4 he only emailed another simulated doctor

>>82992084
yes, because, what a fuck is this palin red shirt from the trailer

>>82991965
I am a huge Moffat critic, but Heaven Sent is great. Punching the wall scene is probably the most dramatic thing Moffat ever produced. Outside of that, Capaldi is amazing in it, story is paced well, directing is amazing, and this episode actually develops Doctor's character in a good way.

>>82992079
agreed, not perfect
like Empty Child, but up there

>>82992018
>You are just a nice guy
I am a total shithead :^)

>you don't want to insult Moffat directly, or you just lower your standarts of doctor who when watching his era episodes, am I right?
Oh fuck no, Moffat has had some shitty ideas and plots and I'm more than willing to drag him for them, but so has Davies. I don't think it's really fair to gloss over them just because Davies is my favorite, he's done some pretty fucking dumb shit too. But overall, Davies brought the show back, Moffat has done great things for the show too. You can tell he's getting tired though, haha. Dear god let the poor man rest. heaven sent though

Why was missy sentenced to death?

>>82991685
If the monks put it there why would they come back and try to retrieve it? The book was made by the self-aware AI not the monks. In real life there would be no reason to write the book.

>>82991965
He wrote the Doctor's grief over losing a companion a lot better in that episode than most writers have.

>>82991272
>I was saying if you have diversity in Doctor Who, have diversity that makes sense, something that acknowledges the ugly realities of racism - and that means a) not showing black people where they didn't exist
That's exactly the point. Why are you using Thin Ice to talk about this? If you've heard that it is historically accurate, why use it to complain that the show isn't being historically accurate?

>and b), when you do show them, don't ignore the historical context.
But I think you're assuming a historical context that isn't even remotely realistic. Georgian London was not post-Reconstruction Atlanta.

Of course if you transplanted a bunch of people from 1814 London to 2017 and gave them Tumblr accounts, they'd all be hounded off the internet as racists. But mostly it would be for things like talking about raising money to send the poorest negroes back to Africa where they can live naturally (as prominent black leaders at the time were urging), not because they'd go out of their way to offend black people like a bunch of /pol/tards.

Basically, Bill was wrong to assume that the past is all the same country, and the episode showed that she was wrong. It was understandable for Bill to expect that—if nothing else, better safe than sorry. It's less understandable for you to continue to insist that Bill was right after an episode that showed otherwise, when you don't actually have any reason to believe the episode was wrong. Sure, it's fine that you don't know the facts, but why assume that the episode must be wrong, even when you've heard people telling you otherwise but haven't bothered to look it up yourself?

>>82992079
>implying niggers or negresses can act
I bet they ask ("axe", for my simian friends out there) them) them to imagine KFC ran out of chicken when they want them to act sad.

>>82992159
fooling around with that planet

>>82992018
>You are just a nice guy
He's Canadian

>>82992159
Being a megalomaniacal dickhead.

>>82992144
But at least at his shittiest Davies was fun, right?

>guarding a box for 1000 years
moffat's stealing from himself now?

>>82992159
Having a vagina on a penis only planet.

>>82992219
what's ur deal dude? who hurt u?

>>82991272
(cont)
However, you're right that there's all kinds of more interesting they could get into if they wanted to.

For example, go to Lower Egypt right after one of the Nubian dynasties fell, and I'll bet Bill would be made to feel very uncomfortable, for completely different reasons than in 19th century America, but with similar effects. And that could be a cool story.

But how often does Doctor Who do stories about the way women were realistically treated in different eras? Or people who don't know the right manners to pull off being in the class they're pretending to be? Or people who dress in ways that would be considered scandalous or alien? 99.9% of the time, the show just ignores all of that. So why should it treat skin color differently?

Those CERN scenes are some of the cheapest since the show returned. Awful. Is there a budget cut??

>tfw demon headmaster was a better show than Moffat's who

So Nardole went to the Library to get the Diary.
River is alive but dying
she regenerates into Nardole.

>>82992249
no

>>82992273
They're just not capable of showing emotion.

>>82992249
It's all a matter of preference, I suppose.
even I think the slitheen are cringey

>>82992249
55% of the time

the clone is silly
master shooting rays is silly

>>82992159
She talked the daleks into executing her professionally rather than doing it themselves, to buy her time. They hired the executioners, and the Doctor found out she was neck deep in shit and decided to help her. That was all made up, but it can be canon if u want it to be

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>>82991965
Personally I think it's the best Doctor Who episode there is.

The doctor is alone so there's no companion nonsense and you get some insight into the doctor's thought processes. There's the whole mystery of the castle. The musical direction is fucking amazing. The doctor's escape plan is both horrifying and interesting. The whole thing is set in the context of the doctor's grief over Clara's death.

It was just pure kino out of nowhere.

>>82992249
get lost RTDCuck

>>82991272
And one more thing…

I wouldn't be surprised if Dollard set her episode in 1814 in part specifically because of a bit of research into racial history.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Moffat didn't know any of that, didn't get why Dollard picked 1814 in particular, didn't want to ask her because he'd feel stupid, and tried to pitch her story in ways that were a little stupid.

I like Moffat as a writer, and as a showrunner, but he is very bad at PR.

>>82992309
I've been pretty impressed with Pearl Mackie's show of emotions this season, but okay, you do you I guess

>>82992278
he's a robot
at best he has river's mind downloaded into him

>>82992343
>The musical direction is fucking amazing.
This. I'm a pleb who never notices music but even I knew that shit was GOAT.

>>82992395
and Nardole shutting her 'tude down

>>82992395
It's like when a dog whines for food, it's just motivated by greed and self interest, I guarantee they were dangling some watermelon just off screen.

>>82992412
I wouldn't mind nardole if they got an actual actor to play him

>>82992407
>he's a robot
Cyborg

>>82992321
The Master's laser beam feet were hilarious, at the very least it was stupidly memetic, and certainly not forgettable

>>82992407
he was, or at least was in episode 1
no more references to that.
He can fly the Tardis too good

or if only the Head is still River
always were, she was hanging with a CLOCKED version of herself
like YANA
and the head Could regenerate

>>82992443
Who's dangling the watermelon, Moffat or the director? It sounds like a clever trick

>>82992515
The director. Moffat's too busy taking orders from Jews on how the episodes should go.

>>82992443
careful not to cut yourself on all those edges

>>82992473
>He can fly the Tardis too good
Does this mean that, say, Nyssa was also River?

>>82992543
I did the (((them))) and they almost banned me from the main forum last week

>>82992601
>they almost banned me from the main forum
Who almost banned you from which forum?

>>82992581
Trakenites had greater IQs
and she was last of them

>>82992343

>Personally I think it's the best Doctor Who episode there is.

Do you mean in nuwho or Dr Who in general? As while it was a good episode it's not going to outclass Genesis of the Daleks or the Caves of Androzani.

>>82992625
gallifreybase

>>82992543
which jews? how deep does this go man? are the jews the real organ grinders? in which case I love what they've done with the show, this season has been great so far. I hope the jews hang around next season with chibnall

>>82992659
>Androzani
why it is great?

a generic mad man, people are made hostage and there is a antidote

>>82992683
Oh, they surely shall.

>>82992601
How dare they ban you for posting antisemetic memes on their forum. Next thing you know you won't even be able to call Bill a nigger on there. Oh the humanity.

>>82992735
So much for the tolerant kikes.

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>>82992683
BBC always had racial quota on
and gay motifs were auto from RTD

But it never affected the dialogue like this season
- Nigger jesus
- Capitalism is evil
- Lesbian companion
- all BIll's friend were totally diverse

>>82992640
Being the last of your species makes you able to fly a TARDIS?

>>82992731
You know, I think Verity Lambert might have been jewish too, the conspiracy goes all the way to the top! You'll have to let ur mates at /pol/ know

>>82992683
>>82992735
>>82992774
Also punching the guy for racism is justified
that reflects ANTIFA and R Spencer

>>82992774
>BIll's friend
Those were her lesbian partners, cis scum.

>>82992774
It makes sense for bill's friends to all be non-white. As much as people don't like admitting it, people naturally gravitate towards their 'kind' based on superficial aspects like skin color

>>82992735
Don't you understand? Free speech means that I'm allowed to say anything I want, but nobody is allowed to kick me out of their private groups or make fun of me for being an idiot.

>>82992774
This, RTD pandered but it rarely felt too on the nose. With this season Moffat has pandered harder than RTD ever did and the season isn't even over yet. I'm so glad this fucking hack is leaving.

>>82992814
off course not, but this episode made Doc think the Priest was River and was not

>>82992843
Brit/pol/ is being lit up as we speak, all the world shall know.

>>82992772
Fun fact, loads of people don't like anti-semetism. Not just jews. Most people find it quite distasteful.

Also blah blah don't have to tolerate intolerance.

>>82992895
>it's idiotic to prefer your own people, your own culture, your own family over others
Think you've had a bit too much Tel Avivision, laddo.

>>82992876
so why not 2 blacks?
the problem is that was tokenism
black, white, asian, indian, russian, arab

>>82992905
I hope every one finds out that a british sci fi is controlled by the deep state or whatever. It'll shock people to their core. Suddenly the dreidel that the Doctor keeps in the Tardis makes so much sense

>>82992972
You mean like bill's date?

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>>82992852
on knock knock
friends

and in this episode, she was forcing gayness on the straight black lady, also degenerate

>>82992843
Jewish, and a woman. So was Carole Ann Ford. And Sydney Newman wasn't a woman, but, along with being half-Jewish, he was also Canadian. Also, Waris Hussein was a gay Pakistani, and David Whitaker was a (((Munster))).

>>82993024
today for the first time, it was 2 of the same race

(other than Martha and Mickey)

>>82993082
Remeber the talk about Hartnell not working with Blacks

So can someone explain to me why the BBC thinks awkwardly shoving in black people = diverse? What about Arabs, Indians and Asians?

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>/who/ is /pol/ again
aw jeez

>>82993102
Amy and Rory aren't the same race because Scots aren't white?

>>82993155
That happens too but it doesn't upset the american shitposter as much.

>The Veritas are from a SJA audibook and are much less menacing than they seem

Aw.

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>>82993155
check Knock Knock

Also, Rani from SJS, Indian Cute

>>82993082
No, that doesn't sound realistic, the 1960s wasn't diverse. That's just rewriting history for liberal propoganda or something

>>82993221
>Rani
Why wasn't she THE Rani?

>>82993159
>posting Mike "Third Reich" Stoklasa while complaining about /pol/

>>82993221
she should have crossovered into main companion!
sexy

>>82993155
They had some of those in the dryad episode.

>>82993155

>What about Arabs, Indians and Asians?

Smile, right this season?

>>82991941
As I understood the episode, this was only one simulation among many the Monks had done, each time entering a new way to exterminate all. The Veritas was one of them, just there to see how effective it was at making the humans beg for their help.

Next week's episode we pick up with a pyramid, which could had been proven as the most effective method and will be the one they use to achieve their goal.

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>>82993222
what color is your tinfoil fedora

>>82993262
What makes you think she wasn't! O_o

>>82988809
So what did Missy do to those people to make them want to kill her?

>>82993293
DELET THIS

>>82993299

What reason at this point is there NOT to kill the Master whenever they turn up?

>>82993222
Yeah, everyone knows there were no Munsters in the west until 1988. Why do these Munster revisionists want to show "diversity" by pretending people like David Whitaker existed in the 1960s?

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>>82993280
I hate piramids, we built them, and those damn kungz got buried there

>>82993288
Pink. I bought it from the pink fedora tin foil hat store.

>>82993299
Nothing
They just wanted to kill a Time Lord
apparently that's a very cool thing to do

>>82993262
plain indian Rani
Timelord Rani is the master fucking himself because why not

Why are all "asians" lumped together? Why don't taiwanese and japanese get represented individually?

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>>82993299
She was arrested by the Shadow Proclamation for dabbing

>>82993378
they represent the percentage in main land UK
and the data on asians are bit signifcative to separate them

>>82993378
That would make too much sense.

>>82993392
What's that thin in her ear?

>>82993299
They're just executioners. We don't know who put her on trial and sentenced her to death. But last time we saw her, she was hanging out in Dalektown and saying she had a clever plan. So there are two obvious possibilities:

1. Her clever plan fucked the Daleks over. When they caught her, they remembered the last time they tried to execute the Master he turned into a jizz snake and escaped, so they decided they'd better hand her over to a serious professional this time.

2. Her clever plan used the Daleks to fuck over somebody else, and the survivors caught her and tried and sentenced her to death under the laws of the Shadow Proclamation or whoever gets to be in charge of this stuff.

>>82993443
It's a sonic hearing aid. She was exposed to the vacuum of space and went deaf

>>82993378

The same reason 'Black' is lumped together despite meaning they could be American, African or Australian.

>>82993515
it is called tokenism for a reason.

instead of chosing them for their talent

>>82993153
>Remeber the talk about Hartnell not working with Blacks
No, please elaborate. Kekking myself.

>>82993378
I think it's easier for the census. Like, considering how Asians as a whole make 5.6% of the United States population, it'd be a tad bit harder to say "Oh, the Chinese make up 2%, Japanese make up 1.5%, Koreans are 1%..." et al. It's just like that for all races, I guess.

>>82993515
When have you ever seen an indigenous australian in any show that champions diversity? They literally don't exist outside of australia

>>82993636

Cleverman...but then, that show was Australian and literally about Australian Aboriginal Mythology. So kinda went with the territory.

>>82993597
Are indians categorized as asian?

What in the fuck kind of rick and morty style bullshit was this episode?

>>82993665
Local australian productions are an exception to the rule I guess
But then again australian shows don't really show african americans since they don't really exist over there
So it is kind of localized to whatever the racial makeup of the country is - although they do still try to average it out so every race is represented equally rather than it being an accurate representation based on racial distribution

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Last week I said I'd be surprised if the doctor doesn't have his sight back in this episode, theorizing that he'd use the sonic sunglasses to feed images directly into his brain to replace his vision.

People made fun of this idea. Guess who was fucking right?

Kinda stupid that he only gave himself some shitty sonar looking shit instead of just a camera, but whatever.

>>82993597
Getting more detailed doesn't mean getting any less arbitrary—in fact, probably the opposite. Are people from Hokkaido Japanese? Only if they don't have Ainu ancestry? Or what about someone whose parents are from Japan, but 3 of his grandparents are Korean?

The US Census Bureau basically just lets people self-declare whatever they want, which is probably the simplest solution. (Occasionally, even Yanks get it right.)

>>82993751
This doesnt mean you can post anime

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>>82993546
There were some proof of that in the old forum outpostgallifrey
Hartnell was born in 19th century, he was a common man of the era, a fuillblown racist.

He was ill most of the time and skipping episodes anyway

but there were at least one occasion that he recused to work with a black man on the show

it makes this cover cringy

>>82993781
it was the smuggest picture I had

>>82993636
You mean besides Four to Doomsday?

Probably a lot more often in Aussie shows than British ones, though.

>>82993751
congrats on getting it right, I'm proud of u <3

>>82993667
Considering the fact that India is in Asia, I'd say so. Always smart to check though, confirm what you've been told.

>>82993751
congrats

It is the same to Daredevil

in some comics he can read normally
like he has no handicap

>>82993818
Fuck pajeets they ruined the internet

>>82993788
Absolutely fucking based. I wonder why these views were well respected from the beginning of time to 1950 but now if you hold these you're an ebil nazi who needs to go back to >>>/pol/.

>>82993747

>although they do still try to average it out so every race is represented equally rather than it being an accurate representation based on racial distribution

Yeah, it's generally due to small sample numbers. It's hard to get accurate percentages when you have less than 100 characters to spread them among.

Then again, going by Aussie TV Aboriginal characters are a fair bit less than the 2.5% they are in the actual population. Seriously, they basically don't exist in Aussie TV unless the show is specifically about them.

>>82993855
and in Remembrance
Ace finds that "NO COLOURED" in the hostel
they were back in 1963

>>82993846
>>82993751
The doctor should have set the glasses to detected where the ink was on the page being as it would be just slightly thicker

>>82993818
In the uk when people say asian they mean from the indian subcontinent.

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So the american president was not Trump

>>82993973
It was the safest thing to do, desu

>>82993973
And the pope was not Francis.

>>82993667
Categorized by who?

In the UK, the first thing people think of when you say "Asian" is Indians. In US, older people would probably say no; younger people might have to think for a second but then say yes. Although it would be different if you asked in, say, Palo Alto, or some other city with a large Indian population.

Next try asking who counts as "Oriental"—is it Turks and Arabs, or East Asians and some Pacific Islanders, or…?

>>82994010
but if it were recorded before the election they did not chose Hillary
or did not want to reprsent a woman president suiciding

>>82993973
Do you want the BBC to get sued just th8nk about how trump would have reacted to seeing what was meant to be him suicided

>>82994033
don't get into detail
for a white man
they do have too much quotas and period

>>82993916
He could barely see where corridors were, the picture he was seeing was really shitty. I'm surprised he found the book, let alone read the ink on pages haha

>>82993973
Yeah, just like President Winters wasn't GW Bush. And he wasn't even Bruce Springsteen, like he was supposed to be.

America has a lot more Presidents in Doctor Who than in real life.

>>82994044
The episode was written pre election but it was filmed after the election

>>82994044
It was recorded afterwards, they probably could have hired a woman on short notice to sit in a chair motionless

>>82994033
>Indians
No. Pakis. Indians are like Pakis, except they don't rape kids and beat people up for drinking/walking dogs.

>>82994044
>>82993973

A lot of fiction rarely uses real presidents. Heck, Dr Who rarely uses real ones (Unless it's going historical).

The Master didn't shoot Obama on national television after all when he killed the american president.

>>82994090
>>82994130


but Obongo appeared in RTD era right?

>>82994044
In the script, the president's gender was ambiguous, they got a dude to play the president when trump won. That scene at least was recorded after trump won (Radio Times Moffat interview)

>>82994064
I doubt he watches Doctor Who. But he seems to think that everything he does see on TV is true, and it could have been pretty dangerous if the President of the US believed he'd committed suicide and was now dead.

>>82994130
>Ooo, financial solution. Deleted. Ha ha!

>>82994151
but there was the jab that the president chose the audio book version

>>82994141

Yeah, hence 'Rarely'. It's one of very few cases I can think of outside a historical episode.

Which, independent of politics, I think was a poor decision. You've got a lot more limitations on what you can do with a real person than you can with a fictional one.

>>82994183
Wasn't that on the laptop from the vatican?

>about the Pope not being translated by the TARDIS
>They were saying that was because it was simulation


I understand that could be a telltale, but I don't agree.
The simulation knew about blindness, even the secret gizmo to help him get sight back that was in the TARDIS, and how TARDIS worked and how Nardole was able to navigate.
So the simulation would have access to the past and Doctor visited Italy in Mask of Madragora and auto translated italian.

Like the Judoon, the head of religion have to operate in low level of inteligence and reason, to have all his brain power to focus only on faith.

>>82994183

Honestly, a lot of major public figures go with audio book versions of a lot of stuff.

It's a lot easier to listen to when otherwise working/in a car so it's better for busy people.

>>82994141
RTD used "president winters" in the S3 finale when he wanted the president to die
In general they seem to stick to real world leaders for episodes set in the past but tread more delicately when it comes to the present. They certainly wouldn't want to show someone meant to be the actual real president having commit suicide

>>82994228
cannot be sure
president should have one copy there too

>>82993973
Can you imagine Trump reading the veritas, performing the test, understanding the results, and then killing himself?

I can't. The chances of him making it past the reading stage alone are quite low given that it's longer than 1 page, doesn't have his name on it anywhere, and doesn't have any pictures.

>>82994183
That was the laptop from the vatican, the doctor was reading an audio version because he was blind

Which I'm glad he did because the whole time before that I was thinking "why didn't he just use a text to speech program"

>>82994292

In the End of Time, Obama turns up (Well, a really bad obama impersonator) for about 2 seconds before everyone was turned into copies of the Master.

>>82994321
lol

>>82994286
Moff said he just thought it would be better if the pope spoke italian, he said so in an interview today with radio times. But I like ur version better

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>>82994349
Ooo, financial solution. Deleted.

>>82994286
How do we know the TARDIS wasn't translating? Maybe we were just hearing the actual languages they were speaking for once.

>>82994415
i forgot how that was silly

>>82994386

Which is weird, when the last 3 popes have not been Italian.

>>82994449
but all popes need to speak italian

>>82994420
>>82994286
>>82994386
It's a children's show, guys.

>>82994442
Cos the solution to all the world's financial problems was kept only in the memory of one guy.

>>82994349
The rest of the episode is spent sucking off his grand scheme to fix the recession, and turning into the master like everyone else is relatively harmless - especially compared to committing suicide. The current political landscape is far too volatile for them to have gotten away with showing a trump stand-in committing suicide, even if it's technically a simulation in-episode. The optics for the BBC would be horrible.

>>82994203
>>82994292
Even for historical stuff, the novels and audios sometimes made up extra fake Presidents.

And why not do that? In some stories, it might be relevant that "this is during the time of Herbert Hoover". But if it's just taking place somewhere around the 20s, why say it's Calvin Coolidge, instead of having the Doctor guess President Deere, and then tell Ace that nobody memorizes a list of all the US Presidents unless he's studying for the citizenship test?

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>>82994475

>>82994474

Need to speak, yes but it wasn't the native language of any of them and they all spoke english fine.

There is basically zero reason to have a pope speaking Italian outside of Italy.

>>82994513
>and turning into the master like everyone else is relatively harmless - especially compared to committing suicide.

Oh most certainly. Hence >>82994203

You can show a fictional character committing suicide easily. You can't go 'In this situation, this real person would kill themselves' without a clusterfuck.

I'm happier when Dr Who keeps to fictional presidents for modern stuff. Gives them a lot more freedom.

>>82994475
it's a thread about doctor who my man. Of course we're talking about this kind of bullshit. I've talked an awful lot of it so far.

Best episode since Heaven Sent

>>82994689
You just wait til World Enough and Time. It's got a black hole in it. Black holes are spooky, they turn you into spaghetti and shit

>>82994607
Salamander bumps off the Commissioner of the North American Zone some time in 2017. It seems a bit late for America to still be a separate country and still have Presidents. I mean, there is a President of the World Zones Authority, but he's in NYC, not Washington.

>>82994728
the last episode with a black hole was GOAT but I'm cautious knowing that it's moffat this time

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Why would everyone kill themselves just because they realized they're in a simulation? It doesn't make any sense. I know I wouldn't. Because simulation or not your world is real to you and you'd want to survive in it as long as possible.

Killing yourself only makes sense if you know that the simulation is to train aliens to invade earth and you want to spite them or something.

>>82994760
Ah well, you see, Salamander's timeline was rewritten when blah blah blah *muffled trumpet noises*

>>82994779
yes, simulation or not
the pain would be the same
if I was about to kill myself I would at least get drunk on Guinness and not pay

>>82994779
They did know that. The veritas described that to them, then they did the number string theory and realised it was true and mass suicided.
>tfw you realise they let them say "mass suicide" at 7 o clock
wew

>>82994770
He said something about black holes causing time dilation, so I'm expecting timey wimey shenanigans

>>82994770
>the last episode with a black hole
Are you talking Husbands of River Song, Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS, The Mad Woman in the Attic, Time Crash, the K9 finale, or Horns of Nimon?

>>82994828
"time war"

>>82994779
Religious folks killed themselves because everything they believed in with a lie

smart people killed themselves because what's the point of living a lie

everyone else is too ignorant to give a fuck or even notice

>>82994855
Mary Whitehouse is spinning in her grave

>>82994892
>everyone else is too ignorant to give a fuck or even notice
So the only smart people are scientists and zealots?