Pathfinder General /pfg/

>>55269288
Shield of swings is neat both mechanically and narratively but the damage penalty is ridicolous

>>55269288
>What's your favorite fighting style?

One-handed swordsmanship, like with the Aldori Swordlords.

>What fighting style do you wish was mechanically stronger?

See above, it's a damn shame how terrible that style is without heaping helpings of Scarlet Throne.

>>55269288
>What's your favorite fighting style?
Polearm/spear combat.
>What fighting style do you wish was mechanically stronger?
Crossbows and throwing weapons

>>55269554
>Crossbows
>Not strong
Only if you're dumb

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>tfw come up with a fun and crazy build idea
>tfw normally it would be kinda trash to build, but I still wanna do it
>tfw find some 3pp and homebrew stuff that can make it much more viable
>tfw my meatspace group is pretty chill about allowing 3pp and homebrew, since we generally trust eachother to use good judgement and to allow other people to look at it to avoid the broken stuff
I love my group!

>>55269580
I mean beside requiring to be a Bolt Ace

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I made a thing
https://pastebin.com/FYt5hcvg

>>55269288
>what's your favorite fighting style.
Two-handed greatsword.
>What style do you wish was mechanically stronger?
All of them. Fucking wizards.

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Hey guys, I've started to browse Drivethru, and decided to look up some more of Jolly's works. Now, I know that the KoP line is well recieved here, as is Legendary Kineticists, but I would like t know how you all feel about his other product.

Preferably, the Legendary Kineticist 2, Kinetic Shinobi, Asian Archetypes: Martial, and the Eternal Mage.

Also, is Legendary Vigilante's any good, because all I generally hear from it is memes about a feat to allow other people to take Companion to the Lonely

Also, do we have an ETA on Legendary Gunslingers?

>>55269288
>what fighting style do you wish was mechanically stronger?
Disarm. Half the time it does nothing, the other half you're fighting creatures that can't be disarmed. It'd be cool if you could use disarm to dislocate limbs or stun appendages or something to actually reduce a creature's ability to fight regardless of its used weapons. Or hell, just bladebind which becomes a weapon-based grapple as an alternate thing you can do.

>>55269660
Kill yourself.

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>>55269660
>Tauric
>Equine penis
>Not taurine
Educate yourself

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>>55269732
Wait anon, you've given me an idea!

>Publisher makes a new book "Maneuvers Remaster" or some other such name

>Introduces alternate rules to expand upon combat maneuvers

>Instead of adding feat taxing, it alters the combat maneuver progression. For each maneuver, once you reach a specific BAB threshold, you gain additional and altered uses of it

>This allows for normal 1pp maritals to learn them easily, improve their overall capability, and allow interesting interactions with the existing feats without adding bloat

Actually, I wonder if some other 3pp has already come up with this idea yet. Anyone know if such a thing exists already?

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Has your character been involved in some monumental event in Golarion's history?

>>55269872
>sparkledogs caused WWI
I believe it

>>55269853
Hell if I know, but that sounds like a damn good idea anon. Sounds kind of like the Dirty Trick feats, where as you progress you can inflict more severe forms of Dirty Trick. Think of the options though.

>disarm
>becomes dislocate
>becomes bladebind
>becomes sever limb

>grapple
>becomes trip and throw
>becomes suplex
>becomes piledriver

>>55269872

Holy shit that picture.

To answer your question, sadly my GM hasn't played any part of Golarion in the past, only the present.

But we did meet an old Lich who called Aroden a "right cunt that deserved all of it."

When the bard of my party meets ancient undead, the first thing he wants is a history lesson.

>>55269872
i'm actually playing in a campaign that takes place in avistan around 1030~ AR. so odds are, this wizard of mine is probably going to be basically the mother of modern magic on Golarion....

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>>55269872
Wtf is up with this picture? does the author approve of Franz Ferdinand's assassination? (since it's aiding the shooter's (i forget his actual name) aim) does he think it was somehow harmonious with the balance of the universe or something (since there's a Tao symbol in it's wing). Does the author even realize that this event is what set off the whole domino line that results in WW1? Do they think the First World War was a good thing?

I have so many questions, and concerns...

>>55270229
Yes, this is someone who believe they are the furry in the picture, the symbol is a part of what they idealize themselves to be.

In a nutshell they are a furry nazi who thinks they are part angel and believes they set in motion the events of WW1.

>>55270229
Gavrilo Princip.

>>55270277
>a furry nazi who thinks they are part angel

Jesus H. of Nazareth.

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>>55270277
I don't even, I-I want to find this person and hit him with a stupid stick until they stop being stupid.

>>55270304
>Gavrilo Princip.
Thank you.

>>55270392

Anon, if you make it a point to try and hunt down every stupid person on the internet to hit them with a stick, you're going to have very little time to do other things on the weekend. Ignore the stupids, and enjoy your weekend.

>>55269723
I can only tell you of Legendary Kineticists 2:
Fuck Yes.

It rebuilds the standard kineticist with burn becoming a strength/dex penalty (just check/skills, not attacks/damage/reflex/etc), includes a small amount of battle-burn as well, lowers the first expanded element to 6 and all-around does minor improvements here and there.

It also introduces a bunch of new archetypes. Favorite there's the Onslaught, which does require some different build methods but can be a somewhat better blaster than regular kineticists if done correctly; not by all that much but a little while also allowing a different and more dynamically-allocated blasting playstyle.

Legendary Vigilantes and its Villains extra book are pretty decent, though yes there's some possible cheese if you really want (what doesn't, including CRB though). Probably more importantly it includes a lot of universal vigilante talents, since nearly everything in 1pp was purely stalker-only or avenger-only.

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>>55269288
>Favorite Fighting Style
Missile Spam (Homing Beam Spam also good)

>Fighting style you wish was mechanically stronger
Crossbows and Autofire.
Preferably combined.

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In your personal opinion, what is the silliest monster in all 6 bestiaries?

bonus points will be awarded if the monster is both silly, but also a viable adversary

>>55269288
Repeated nut punches followed by axe kicks to the groin and sometimes finished with headbutts directly to the testicles.

>>55269932
you just gave me a boner with that grapple progression anon, you better take responsability

>>55271069
I'll take responsibility by using my soft, wet,
STEAL COMBAT PROGRESSION
>steal item
>becomes steal weapon (meaning the target doesn't realize they've been disarmed)
>becomes steal memories (which prevents them from forming new memories and erases the last few minutes)
>becomes steal prepared spell
Because spells are only the final bits of an already prepared ritual, so you should be able to jack someone's currently casting spell to redirect the target.

>>55269288
>Favorite fighting style
Tough call, but sword and board is my favorite aesthetic, despite something like einhanding getting way more support. Mechanically though, I'm a sucker for unarmed, and UMonk is on my list.

>style you wish was better
Many. Crossbows (especially in the hands of an alchemist) deserve better, shields shouldn't need to spend 5 feats to be remotely useful, and thrown weapons being so janky is a crime. The biggest disappointment is TWF for me, though. A style that should emphasize being mobile, but it's actually the most immobile style of all? The fuck is this bullshit?

Double attack as a standard is just something you should get at BAB +6 with the twf feat, double slice and rend should be merged improved/greater being separate was a mistake

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>>55271130
You had me going at weapons, but memories is just silly, should've been worn/protected item
Spell redirect is amazing tho, but should require at least a few ranks in arcane knowledge or spellcasting to properly bamboozle the spellcaster into fucking it up the way you want it to go

>>55271198
>memories is just silly
I dunno, there's plenty of examples of smacking a guy so hard he forgets what happened in fiction, not to mention you can already do that with Cytillesh Extract.
Nowhere near as silly as stealing attributes of something which is what I was originally going to add, which is why I made a soft and wet joke

>>55271010
>TEMEEEEEEEE!

>>55271396
But that would just be the consequence of a sneak attack to the head, not a maneuver
Also my idea would allow someone to steal worn equipment, something that is not allowed by RAW, and which would have much more severe consequences than a simple mind altering spell would

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>>55271550
>>55271010

Qlippoth are my pic

>>55271569
Very true. There's needed to be a way to literally steal the shirt off of someone's back for years.

>>55269853
Spheres of Might sort of does this to an extent.

>>55269723
Asian Archetypes just got 5 stars plus seal of approval from EZG, I think kinetic shinobi got 4.5.

I've checked out the eternal mage myself since it sounded cool, and it's actually pretty balanced for 'infinite' spellcasting.

>>55269606
What about a Crossbowman? They're kinda cool.

>>55271796
>5 stars plus seal of approval from EZG
Didn't that guy unironically write a glowing review of the grimoire of lost souls, the book that has the glaring fetish shit, and didn't even acknowledge that there was a single issue with it?

>>55269723
the only new thing of jolly's in asian archetypes was the mercurial duelist, which is fucking awesome and lets you play kenshin (vacuum blade and all)

I dont normally look at or post in these threads but I just wanted OP to know I liked the image they used

>>55269288
Sunder. It doesn't work on anything not wearing armour or using weapons, and your team gets mad when you smash the loot. It should be able to target natural weapons and armour. Also it should deal bonus damage to Golems and constructs.

My group and my DM are relatively new to DND (been playing for 6 months max). Would our group be able to Branch out and do Pathfinder?

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>>55269723
Yo, personally I really liked kinetic shinobi, I worked to give it a distinct feel from the base classes. Fun fact; it originally started out as an archetype that just grew into a class.

For eternal mage, I don't think it works for every game, but the internal balances in there help make sure everyone's keeping balanced.

>>55271841
is right about asian archetypes, that's literally the anime swordsman archetype.

Also if you haven't already, check out the city of seven seraphs kickstarter, mostly because it's like 1k away from funding, and I really wanna have this awesome setting come out!

>>55271908
I still feel bad for some of my suggestions for the MD, because I directly contributed to it being so goodnight talent hungry and holy fuck that was such a mistake.

>>55271908
Hey question on your onslaughts since an anon mentioned them earlier:
How do you split those blasts up? If I have a physical composite blast, is it x blasts of 2d6+2 or 2x blasts of 1d6+1? Seems it would be the latter but just to be certain.

If they grow or get more dice added? Say you use an amplification for bigger dice from 2d6 to 3d6s, or use complex negative admixture, are those all split off as extra dice, so you have negative blasts and normal blasts? Is +1/die +1 per 2d6 if that's "one die" grown from a meteor blast, or is it +2 damage per 2d6?

And if doubled with the high level ability, do you double the base, or everything after accounting for burned blaster and kinetic railgun?

Basically I want to know just how many shots I can put into the air since it's the closest thing to a force missile mage.

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>>55271969
It's the latter, yeah.

And I've always played that as separate dice, yeah.

My endgame statement here is that if you think it would add more blasts, it almost certainly would, as pic related was the inspiration for the class.

>>55271938
Hey, at least both books give new ways to get vigi talents.

>>55272006
True, I just look back in hindsight and think it probably would have been better to suggest that at 11th level, rather than the mandatory "hope you have two Iaijutsu talents bitch" ability, it was just an automatic Greater Weapon of the Chosen effect, so you didn't need to take that particular talent.

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>>55272006
So in the case of complex negative admixture, one basically has to target 2 blasts at a target, minimum, in order to generate the third negative blast?

I am very okay with this. Thanks for the answer.

>>55271840
Yeah, but to be fair the actual content of the book is really good. It could have been a staple at a lot of tables if Augunas didn't beat off on the pages.

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>>55272006
Have some beams in the middle of splitting into more beams.

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What if we made some new spirits to replace the really egregious spirits from Grimoire, make subtle changes to the less bad spirits, and maybe port the older 3.5 spirits to the new system?

>>55269887
>>55270004
>>55270229
Would it surprise you to learn that picture was originally titled "guaranteed replies"?

>>55269872
Does stopping the end of the world despite nobody knowing of it count?

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>>55269872
>Not linking the prequel
Anon pls.

>>55272182
To be fair I think I just don't like his reviewing style, and I definitely don't like a lot of his opinions on balance. Some of it I could agree on (advanced grip should have been the "let them do Str-einhanding" talent that didn't boost your offhand, imo) but a lot of it just looks like dumb bullshit.

Is the paracosmist summoner overpowered?

>>55272533
As a furfag, all I can say is HOLY SHIT KILL IT WITH FIRE GAS THIS FAGGOT PLEASE!

>>55272533
I need a shop with Newton replaced with Augunas, and the book replaced with one of his rulebooks

>>55269872
Historical revisionism at it's best: Angel-devil-Taoist-King sparkledog has a man murder the archduke of Austria-Este, Super Mario.

>>55272386
You're talking about the binder? Because if you are, there was a binder-like class that was in production, the "Harrow Deck" Medium, but which was - judging from the last forum posts - scrapped because it took up too much space.
Obviously, we need more fat warriors in our game, rather than a beloved mechanic that people asked for many times.

>>55269288
Aldori one handed with crane style.

>>55272490
>Would it surprise you to learn that picture was originally titled "guaranteed replies"?
Well he wasn't wrong. But that does not mean that the concerns the image raises are no less legit. After all if you know your opinions are controversial and make light of that, it doesn't make your opinions any less controversial.

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>>55272736
>murder the archduke of Austria-Este, Super Mario.
pretty sure that's their best attempt to portray (pic.).

Though the drawing does look more like Mario now that I look at it.

>>55273056
>Someone destroyed this glorious mustache
Truly a great loss

>>55273129
Truly

How do you feel about societies that regulate the kind of spells someone can have/sell (as scrolls, to learn, etc.). In most of my settings any lawful society with a sufficiently large government rightly controls what sort of spells it's magical population knows. Fireball as an example.

If you're a wizard or similar you need to produce you spell books for inspection. If they find spells on the banned list in it they'll remove the pages until you leave the city and return to you the removed pages (And even cast mend to reattach them).

If they do find the spells in your book they will also probably subject you to magical scrutiny on whether you have any such spell prepared to stuff like scrolls and wands. Scrolls and wands get confiscated.

Now this only applies to certai spells. Most people aren't even high enough level to know most banned spells. Something like scorching ray isn't banned as long as you pay for a permit as it is considered viable for self defense. Fireball is considered not something that can be used for self defense since it just explodes. It's a case by case basis but I generally produce a list for people when they enter a regulated city.

Foreigners are also subjected to tighter scrutiny.

Of course some people determined by the government are allowed to have what ever they want. However most of these people work for the government.

Is the Broodmaster archetype for Summoner any good?

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>>55272570
... Gas him, anon?

>>55273662

Not especially. You can do better with just the one eidolon, or by going Master Summoner for full minion spam.

>>55273662
It's bad

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>>55273812

>The Furred Reich

This is not okay.

>>55273911
>>55273912
Is it bad from level one to begin with, or can I make it work for a couple levels?

>>55273620
This is essentially near impossible to properly regulate. Plus, this will essentially garuntee that Sorcerers will be highly sought after and quickly taken into the control of crime syndicates

Is there a way to attack multiple enemies during a mounted charge?

I'm building a lancer and I envision some sort of anime style charge where I pierce through multiple bads.

1pp only for now.

>>55274058
Level 1 is the only point where it's decent enough for combat.

Basically, if your going to be a Broodmaster, you should forgo combat nearly all together, and instead use your Eidolons for utility and scouting. Maybe also as wand/scroll monkeys

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>>55269660
>Shota Eidolon
Everyday We Stray Further From God's Light

>>55274058
It stops being useful past level 5, if your dividing levels across Eidolons evenly.

If you instead have a singularly focused combat Eidolons, with one significantly weaker one built around support or utility, it could work

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>people talking about Asian archetypes reminded me that I want to play a Mercurial Duelist because I am weaboo trash
>mfw every time Jolly content is allowed so is PoW
>Bushi templated initiators are infinitely better at the weebshit
>mfw games without PoW are almost universally 1pp only, including my currant group

I can't really be mad, since I greatly enjoy Mithral Current, but it still stings a little y'know?

>>55274292
You imply we were ever in His light to start with.

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>>55273662
This is the one archetype that I desperately want to work. Unfortunately its just not good enough.

Unlike Pack lord druids who can get boon companion to keep things in working order for at least a little while longer, the brood master just won't cut it even if you go half elf and put every feat in extra evolution.

At best, you can do ripper swarm but you won't be deploying a varied swarm of raveners, tyrant guards and guargoyles anytime soon.

>>55274314
Anon, just to let you know know, if I were a DM, or had any confidence to run a game, I'd use those rules.

Personally, while I like much of PoW, I'm just not a fan of manuevers in general as a mechanic.

Then again, I like the Wardancer from DDS, so what do I know?

>>55274344
Do you think God stays in Heaven because He fears what He has created?

>>55274149
This is actually something I have thought of, the sorcerer bit.

How they determine whether someone is truthful is just that. A permanent circle of truth. You can tell when someone passes their save inside one. You require they choose to fail the save, then answer a series of questions, then depending on their answers send them on their way.

Why do players freak out so much about possibly dying after they hit level 6-7? Death by this point doesn't really matter, it's just an expensive debuff. If you have a paladin in the party it might not even be expensive, just inconvenient.

I had my level 8 party, who had a paladin with Ultimate Mercy in it, basically turn themselves inside out with how butthurt they were over their alchemist dying.

>>55272060
What's complex negative admixture from? I'm looking at an Onslaught Blaster for my next character.

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Waitaminute, I just went a looked again at the Beginning myself, and found this stuff
>Regardless of the number of eidolons in the brood, each eidolon has the same base attack bonus and base saving throw bonuses, but the rest of the eidolons’ base statistics must be divided between the eidolons,

>Example: A 2nd-level broodmaster can summon two eidolons. Each eidolon has 1 Hit Dice, BAB +2, +3 on its two good saves and +0 on its bad save.

I don't remember this from the original release of Ultimate Magic. Was this Errata? Since you can still have a not only a Full BAB eidolon, but also 2, doesn't this make it somewhat better by virtue of having both combat and action-economy coverage?

>>55274438
But how the fuck are you supposed to even find a Sorcerer when the Syndicates are sheltering them, and would likewise use illegal means to counter federal attempts at control?

>>55274490
Death is supposed to be serious and not everyone plays in campaigns where GM's allow easy "just pay 5000 GP resurrection" if they even allow resurrections at all.

>>55274438
How the fuck do you tell someones a Sorcerer/Psion/Kinetcist whatever just by looking at them.

>>55274619
>>55274596
You don't. Everyone entering the inner city (the regulated part) passes through a zone of truth and has to answer a couple questions.

Basically magical customs officers for 'are you capable of casting magical spells?', 'do you have with you any items capable of casting magical spells?', 'do you have the intention of procuring items to cast magical spells once you enter the city?', etc. You would answer 10 questions or so then be let through.

>>55274597
>tfw our characters have started to die at a reasonable pace, but we always have a 5k gp diamond on hand to bring them back.

>>55272006
Are you ever going to update your guides (especially the Kineticist guide) with some of the newer options from Leg. Kineticists 2, or is it too weird to review options you wrote yourself?

>>55274597
I allowed the guy to take Ultimate Mercy. He doesn't have to pay 5k gp. He just has to take a temporary negative level and can bring him back to life on the spot. He doesn't need to spend a diamond. Heck he can do it before a cleric can.

>where GM's allow easy "just pay 5000 GP resurrection"
I have never encountered a GM who bars all forms of resurrection in pathfinder.

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Friend of mine want to run a session of Pathfinder for me and two other mates (me and one of them will be 1st time players in RPG ever).
Setting is ancient egypt themed, so we're all hyped and want to sink into that world.

I checked classes avaliable, and I'm thinking about starting with a shaman.
Backstory would be simple: my character would get near-death-experience because of exhaustion on dessert during his travel. In last grasp of consciousness, he'd pray for mercy to gods. Fact is, that one of his ansestors was a shaman, but he in person never showed any kind of that abilities (he was regular human, small trader, noone more). Those abilities manifested that time (uncontrolled), and he was posessed by spirit of Bast (or just one of her minions), who kept him alive, but for price - spirit is controling his body as long as spirit/familiar is present.
During adventure he would be competiting to get control over his body with spirit, but for most of time it will be spirit talking and doing stuff - most of dialogues would be in 3rd person, spirit and character would have diffrent motives and vievs on people/quests etc.

What do you think?

>>55274696
> 'are you capable of casting magical spells?', 'do you have with you any items capable of casting magical spells
So Psionicists, Kineticists, Avowed, Monks with Quigong Powers, Alchemists, etc slip by. You need a lot more than 10 easy questions unless you intend to hold people up all day.

>>55274696
Yeah, but that ends up being completely useless against people that are born citizens who are capable of magic.

Plus, this also makes it so that there will be increased business for the criminal syndicates to smuggle casters into the city as well.

Plus, a caster could just erase/hold his allies memories of him, smuggle himself in by hiding in a crate or barrel or something, then either ditch those losers once he gets in or restore their memory once they leave customs.

Magic isn't firearms you dumbass, its are infinitely more difficult to detect and suppress by their very nature

>>55274696
Strong enough people can just ignore the zone of truth

>>55274763
>So Psionicists, Kineticists, Avowed, Monks with Quigong Powers, Alchemists, etc slip by. You need a lot more than 10 easy questions unless you intend to hold people up all day.
Probably 15 would be able to cover most things actually, or catch all ones.

"Do you have any form of magical prowess?", "Do you have any items or have the intention of procuring any items while in the city that can produce a form of magic effect?"

Then if they answer yes you go into the more detailed questions. You start super general because 95% of people answer "No" to both of these and pass through.

The first questions covers all form of Su abilities and racial magical abilities.

>>55274795
Those people will have always been a problem, and are likely already known to the guard before they even stepped through the city gates.

>>55274824
How? Is there some kind of overarching federal government that keeps accurate descriptions of strong people and disseminates them in a timely manner to these people? You ain't gonna know, nigga.

>>55274824
That's a bigass assumption there anon, and not one you can lightly make

>>55274782
>Yeah, but that ends up being completely useless against people that are born citizens who are capable of magic.
Unless you never test people in the city or they never leave the city.

>Plus, this also makes it so that there will be increased business for the criminal syndicates to smuggle casters into the city as well.
Yes, and getting rid of laws because some people might commit crimes is ludicrous. That line argument can be used to try and justify getting rid of literally all laws.

>a caster could just erase/hold his allies memories of him
This is actually EXTREMELY uncommon. The only spell that can so this easily is sequester thoughts which requires a level 7 bard, a level 9 wizard, or a level 10 sorcerer.

>Magic isn't firearms you dumbass, its are infinitely more difficult to detect and suppress by their very nature
It really isn't when you can detect them in a 60ft cone and have nearly full proof lie detection. You can't cast 'detect firearm', but you can detect magic. Really regulating it is easier with government sanctioned magic users at the helm.

>>55274795
Only way to ignore it is Glibness. Level 7 bards are uncommon enough that likely you'll have less than 5 pass through your city each year. You can't throw out the baby with the bathwater because some people might be capable of getting by. Even then you can check further by having detect magic on checking people as well.

If it's someone with Mindblank they will be able to destroy most cities without trying, so at that point the act of having a government at all is pointless.

>>55274853
>>55274856
You can actually fairly easily create such a registry using divination if you have powerful enough diviners. There are fairly limited ways to fool zone of truth.

>>55274438
>You can tell when someone passes their save inside one
Just read the rules, your full of shit
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/z/zone-of-truth

>>55274894
It's part of the base rules of magic. You can always tell whether someone passes or fails a save unless they have a class feature that tricks you otherwise.

That's why class features that trick you otherwise exists.

The caster is always aware of whether someone passes or fails, no matter the spell.

>>55274885
>This is actually EXTREMELY uncommon. The only spell that can so this easily is sequester thoughts
Wrong again asshole
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/repress-memory/

>>55274885
So, in addition to setting up a permanent, very strong zone of truth, you also have full time powerful diviners constantly searching for people of a certain level and then producing descriptions to hand out to all the gate guards.

If this was a city of high level magic, why the fuck do they care about swords?

>>55274916
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/repress-memory/
Did you not read the spell? That's personal.

Sequester thoughts is the only one that allows a casters to hold it for others.

Even then the spell you linked is even less common than sequester thoughts.

Nigga are you retarded?

>>55273812

Wow, that is a great parody of a small, but disturbingly vocal part of the "otherkin" community which feels itself marginalized to the point that it starts to feel kinship to other groups heavily vilified in today's society.

That's what it is, right? Right?

>>55274941
>very strong zone of truth
Not a very strong zone a truth. Literally any zone of truth works.

>you also have full time powerful diviners constantly searching for people of a certain level and then producing descriptions to hand out to all the gate guards.
That's for the sake of argument. Likely they wouldn't need one because people who can fool Zone of Truth are uncommon to the point that most are famous on a national level (being level 7+ characters).

>>55274916
>>55274947
Furthermore, the maximum amount you can get rid of is a 50 word piece of knowledge. The GM discretion part is to get rid of a person or location. "The Fact I am a Spellcaster" is FAR too large to even be covered by that. No sane GM would allow you to do it. Even then it would require likely hundreds of casting to suppress everything and leave your memory so full of holes even cursory questions reveals something is wrong.

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>>55274369
Gonna admit, this was the first thing that came to mind when I saw this archetype.

Such a waste. This would have been so neat.

>>55275000
Will negates Zone of Truth, bro. If it's weak, the Zone of Truth will be unreliable as fuck, since people will only be randomly compelled to be truthful.

>>55275042
Did you not follow the line of argument?

The caster of Zone of Truth can tell if someone passes or fails their save because you can always tell when someone passes or fails their save with magic. So you tell them to choose to fail their save (again something you can choose to do), then answer questions.

If someone refuses to fail their save you turn them away.

>>55274885
>Unless you never test people in the city or they never leave the city.
So your somehow able to test every citizen of the city at all times, and can know if they have magic blood even if they don't know it yet?
Yeah, your full of shit

>Yes, and getting rid of laws because some people might commit crimes is ludicrous. That line argument can be used to try and justify getting rid of literally all laws.
That's not the point of that at all you idiot, your just projecting. The point is that by excluding a specific good/service that is more readily available outside of the city, you instead created a demand for such services and have give the criminals both an economic incentive to break the law, and a monopoly over said magics! Congrats, because you just manage to recreate the US Prohibition of Alcohol and have given power and incentives towards people siding and benefiting from crime and the black market

Also, if you have such powerful diviners running the country, wouldn't that chafe the citizenry the wrong way by making them feel like they're in a totalitarian Big Brother state? Further, if your concentrating the power in such a small area, while also denying the average citizen of those same rights and resources, aren't you creating a governmental system that can easily by corrupted taken control by an oligarchy of Federal Archmages who realistically are beholden to almost no one? Thus, they get put in a situation where they have every incentive they need to abuse the fuck out of thier position and powers with little to no actual reprecussions.

Meaning this place will eventually end up as an Orwellian distopia where the average citizen is essentially at the mercy of either thier unaproachable Magocrats, or the Criminal Syndicates that date defy them, and will inevitably suffer from being in the middle of their shadow war, and that's IF they aren't already in cahoots

>>55274949
Nah, Alt-right furries are a thing. Something about feeling kinship to a vilified and persecuted group with either the idea that "They had the right idea about those inferior (non-furries)" or "They were merely understood because their most prominent characters were all sorts of wrong"

>>55273620
Actually that's the kind of thing that the more extremist magocracies would do.

Like many other aggressive regulation of knowledge-bases, this can only be enforced and ensured by exactly what's being regulated, so total regulatory capture is the start-point of the entire endeavor.

It's also excessively difficult to properly enforce... but anyone implementing this knows that, and uses this as an excuse for rather... "over-eager" enforcement. Someone who does not hand over all their magic one way or the other is guilty of hiding something (even if they're, say, a psion), meanwhile all of those magics are being torn out of the heads of sorcerers and maguses, copied directly into the leadership's books while 'confiscated while you're in town'...

And that's the early years. Shit like this NEVER slacks off, rather it gets worse and worse. Every new 'threat' (often false flags or events entirely disconnected from the 'level' of security against magic) is an excuse to tighten things more and more, and to further demonize the "illegals". Eventually it's "registering as possibly magical" (with plenty of false-positive abuse) and no longer "something to keep an eye on" but outright a crime, to be punished.

None of this ends well in any way at all, except of course in the medium and semi-long-term (all empires crumble.... eventually) for the wizards who spearheaded this regulation in the first place. AKA the guys above the law with the wish spells powered by illegals souls who are "totally just temporarily being questioned" and the blood of their families (gotta get some soul-gems for good trades).

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>>55275006
This guy would have also been baller.

>>55275064
For clarification, the caster can always tell. There is no visual cue for others.

So this would require the caster of Zone of Truth to be around for this. Zone of Truth is however only a 2nd level spell, so it's not that hard to have several going at once.

You would then have to take imports and exports to the city in probably a few hours a day and rotate out priests casting zone of truth. They only need to be level 3 though, which is common enough you should have a fair number.

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>>55275083
Misunderstood I meant to say

>>55275082
>So your somehow able to test every citizen of the city at all times, and can know if they have magic blood even if they don't know it yet?
>Yeah, your full of shit
Again, you test every year or some such during a census. The goal isn't to know if every citizen is magical at every moment.

It's the same way we as a society can't fucking tell if someone jaywalks but we still have laws against it. Your argument is absolutely retarded.


>Meaning this place will eventually end up as an Orwellian distopia where the average citizen is essentially at the mercy of either thier unaproachable Magocrats, or the Criminal Syndicates that date defy them, and will inevitably suffer from being in the middle of their shadow war, and that's IF they aren't already in cahoots

So telling people 'you can't have explosives on your person' makes it a Orwellian dystopia? Because the idea is to regulate spells that can kill dozens/hundreds of people easily, not ALL magic.

>>55275000
>famous on a national level (being level 7+ characters).
Nigger, your average sellsword is level fucking 8
/pathfinderRPG/prd/gameMasteryGuide/npcs/mercenaries.html#sellsword

>>55275082
The premise is that people are regulating stuff like:
>Fireball
>Finger of Death
>Summon Monster III+
>etc.

Spells not used for self defense, which in the premise were explicitly allowed as long as you pay some fee, but spells that can only be used to murder dozens of people at a time. Does the average citizen really need a wand of fireball?

>>55275064
>>55275103

First of all, A zone of truth lasts one minute per level. Do you realize how many potential castings of a second level spell that is in a day? Not only is that horribly inefficient, but it requires you to have a full time staff of fucking spellcasters to do these 20 questions. I assumed you had some permanency going on, but if you're actually going to do this, it becomes even more baffling the amount of effort they're putting on something that anybody you should REALLY be worried about will bypass anyway

New to Pathfinder, I want to play a Sorcerer but my people in my group are insisting sorcerers are shit and are telling me to play an Arcanist instead. Is this true, or should I stick to my guns?

>>55275151
The fact that the NPC codexes do this, and yet have internationally famous swordmasters be level 9, is absolutely retarded. I expect that sellsword was from AP and used as a throw away chaff enemy.

>>55275178
The number of level 3 clerics vs. the number of level 9 wizards (able to cast sequester thoughts) or level 7 bards (able to cast glibness to give them a chance to fool it) is staggering in Golarion. Level 3 is common. Level 5+ is extremely uncommon when we used any of the setting books as guides.

>>55275148
>So telling people 'you can't have explosives on your person' makes it a Orwellian dystopia?
No, but telling people "the recipe for gunpowder is FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE YOU MUST PAY FOR YOUR THOUGHT CRIME" is, as is forcibly regulating and controlling people with natural talents (like Sorcs, Kineticists, etc) Harrison Bergeron style

>>55275198
A sorcerer at any given time has more spells known and more spell slots. An arcanist can spend a point assuming he takes an exploit to swap out prepped spontaneous slot, but there is nothing he can do (outside of being level 20) to deal with fewer spells per day.

I'd say arcanist if you are a scrub (you are) so you don't bitch out midway after you fuck up your spells known. Later on when you get more experience then the sorcerer becomes an Ok choice on certain situations.

>>55275148
>Again, you test every year or some such during a census.
This is impossible to actually perform and enforce on a whole city scale. At best you'll only get around 65% of the population

>>55275207
And yet the only people who are dangerous enough to take down a nation on their own are the people who don't give a fuck about your zone of truth. Or are high level martial characters.

This is a retarded premise, all this does is keep scrubs out of your inner sanctum.

>>55275198
Sorcerers are more limited, but if you want to play sorcerer play sorcerer if only to spite your group for trying to play your character for you.

>>55275165
Guaranteed that's only the arguments for the introduction of the legislation.

Also included or soon to be included are single-target attack spells, defensive spells because they "interfere with arrests/investigations/allow-suspects-to-escape", non-government-sanctioned divinations (accusations are generally spying, voyeurism, child abuse or 'suspicion of treason'). Eventually it also expands to economic attacks such as creation, mending and other such spells because that's a potential competition to local mundane crafting or existing magic crafters. In the end, communication like magic mouths gets locked down "because only criminals need telepathy or encryption".

At every single step a small cadre of people are entirely unaffected, being above these restrictions, yet with every such step their own power and ability to influence events rises dramatically.

It doesn't have to be magic; governments have strangled populations with the same reasonings by shutting down technological or even entirely mundane acts, including eventually certain types of 'speech'...

>>55274912
>Likewise, if a creature’s saving throw succeeds against a targeted spell, you sense that the spell has failed. You do not sense when creatures succeed on saves against effect and area spells.

Yeah, no.

>>55275285
Don't forget "think of the children".
Someone's child will have been caught in a fireball last week. Probably the speaker's or one of his men, but there will definitely be some outrage drummed up about that just in time for the bill to pass.

We see this shit every day on CSPAN.

>>55275215
>No, but telling people "the recipe for gunpowder is FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE YOU MUST PAY FOR YOUR THOUGHT CRIME" is

This was never part of the argument. The argument was:
>you can't enter the city with fireball in your spellbook, we'll cut it out and give it back when you leave
>you gotta leave things that cast fireball with us while you're in the city


I'm the guy who posted it originally. Sorcerers are ENORMOUSLY uncommon. PCs class characters at all are, sorcerers even more than ones that can just learn how to be that class. Not making a law because sorcerers exist is not making a law because it can't easily be applied to 1 in 50000 individuals.

For sorcerers you literally have to wear metal mittens so you can't produce somatic components to cast spells while in the city and get a government assistant who will do delicate work for you until you leave. Same think with kineticists and other naturally magical characters. They get a government employee who will follow them around. You can do this because even in a large city (50000 individuals) you maybe see 10 of these types pass through a month.

>>55275285
Yeah so it's acting like a real world government where it builds itself to favor a privileged few the government caters to?

Also this assumes you have a government with introduced legislature and not a form of dictatorship or monarchy.

>>55275255
It keeps dangerous people below level 9 out of your inner sanctum, or 99.999% of people. The rest you just have law enforcement for or ignore them because you literally can't stop them if you wanted to and have to rely on appeasement.

>>55275315
I mean the fact random people are casting fireball near children is a good reason to take fireball away from people if you can because fireball can't be used as self defense.

It's the same reason you don't just let people buy grenade launchers, but let them buy hand guns. Fireball isn't a hand gun, it's a grenade launcher.

>>55275323
I just don't see this nation holding together because of the costs of retaining spellcasters and keeping a large and efficient law enforcement body. It's expensive as fuck to train and hold onto cops, how expensive would magic cops be?

>>55274853
>>55274856
... I'm saying that people who can reliably make the Will save of a ZoT spell will be a mid-high level character, and thus would have a reputation that precedes them.

>>55275323
>It keeps dangerous people below level 9 out of your inner sanctum, or 99.999% of people. The rest you just have law enforcement for or ignore them because you literally can't stop them if you wanted to and have to rely on appeasement.

A level 4 party can cause a fuckton of chaos. Even if you had a 1000 strong force of peacekeepers, PCs are just that much stronger.

>>55275359
Not so hard if they are sorcerers or divine casters.

>>55275367
But you wouldn't know them by their face. Divining them would be a pain in the ass as well.

>watchign /pol/tardation infect and ruin yet another thread
Fucking hell, quests were less cancer.

>>55275064
You can't tell if someone resists area spells my dude.

>>55275323
>Sorcerers are ENORMOUSLY uncommon.
Citation need
>PCs class characters at all are
Citation needed
>For sorcerers you literally have to wear metal mittens so you can't produce somatic components to cast spells while in the city and get a government assistant who will do delicate work for you until you leave. Same think with kineticists and other naturally magical characters.
Literally Harrison Bergeron
> or 99.999% of people
Citation needed

Also, literally all of this flies right in the face of the established GM and NPC codex rules

Why are you guys treating fireball like firearms for regulation? It should be treated like a missile launcher because that what it amounts to.

>>55275373
Unless you have law enforcement who is also level 4. Also the fact that level 4 characters can just level cities means that no government should exist, period, unless it is run and has enough high leveled individuals to kill off humans of mass destruction who step out of line in their midst.

>>55275374
You mean the same people you're (or if you aren't the same guy, then the original guy) said are super rare and are around only .01% of the population, thus making them being in the government of this particular city-state astronomically unlikely

>>55275407
>Also, literally all of this flies right in the face of the established GM and NPC codex rules
Which ones?

>Citation need
Pathfinder's city building rules outlines max level in each city based on available spellcasting.

>>55275390
We've always had /pol/tardation in these threads, I'd be more worried about Starfinder, where the tumor started growing as soon as the system was born.

I'm posting it again!

I decided to do this for game as a "how the country defends itself from the fact there are walking human weapons around". Any town you enter of reasonable size, population bigger than 150, will have two gifts from the capital. These are a sending stone and an animated object construct. If the town gets into a situation that they can't handle they're supposed to take the sending stone and shoot off a message to the capital with as much details as they have.

In the capital there is essentially an office where the country has gathered every person of high level they have. They have people who sit around waiting for messages to pop into the sending stone. When one does they scry that town's animated object, who runs around to try and find out what caused the message to be sent. If they find whoever it is they teleport an extermination squad in, otherwise they teleport in an investigation squad.

An extermination squad consists of the following:
>the teleporter
These are just some class capable of teleportation, they also are normally a counterspelling expert
>Four group trained martials
Team work feats out the ass.
>A support/battlefield control specalist
A cleric/oracle/alchemist/etc.

These six go in and attempt to apprehend whoever caused the disturbance. Failing that they kill them.

Their range, is approximately 1000 mile radius around the capital.

In addition, if the first extermination squad goes down they don't send another immediately. Instead they teleport in a construct with a handful of delayed blast fireballs.

Then they send in 3 more squads with heavy lifter constructs and other equipment.

There are 15 squads like this in the capital. The highest level individual is level 15 while most are between level 6 and 10. These are people who have been gathered and bought by the capital, they're willing to pay a lot for such individuals.

To normal folks they're generally referred to as the Wicker Men.

>>55275434
>Unless you have law enforcement who is also level 4. Also the fact that level 4 characters can just level cities means that no government should exist, period, unless it is run and has enough high leveled individuals to kill off humans of mass destruction who step out of line in their midst.
Or, you know, that human WMDs are rare enough that people still need a government inbetween that. Also, adventurers do tend to just take over settlements the moment they get there by virtue of overpowering them or being simply superior.

You can't make real world comparisons anyway, because people aren't that different. Governments have power because they've built up inertia and there are no superheroes. In fantasy RPGs, it's entirely feasible for a bunch of vagrants to overpower a 1000 year empire.

How does one avoid rubberbanding? and by that I mean
>get to negatives and fall prone
>someone heals you
>stand up defensively
>they hit you anyway because crazy to hit at levels beyond 6th
>in negatives again
or
>try to move 5ft with acrobatics while crawling
>can't pass the CMD+5
>get hit
>into negatives again

>>55275486
But anon, you can't reliably build such squads or have people capable of running/providing such magical, since only 0.01% of all humanity are above level 4! Why would these people all be congregated together just to run a pointless and insignificant city-state?

>>55275486
Or they could just take over the place themselves and have something better to do than be guard dogs.

>>55275529
Any government in such a world worth their salt wouldn't last a 1000 years unless they were run by the same kind of people or employed the same kind of people.

What it makes me think of is something like The Black Company where governments are run by and catered to by WMD. Kings simply wouldn't be able to reign when a homeless man could murder and destroy their entire city because someone would.

Kings and Kingdoms would only last when they surround themselves or are themselves, powerful.

>>55275390
How the fuck is this /pol/? Or is discussion of fantasy logistics automatically /pol/?

>>55275550
>since only 0.01% of all humanity are above level 4!
That still means in a country with a population of 10 million you have ~1000 people above level 4.

>>55275554
Unless the level 15 person was in charge. The level 15 individual is assumed to be the mage dictator of the country. They pay these people enormous sums of money and ones who try and simply throw down the country get murdered by their betters who already know the status quo.

>>55275578
if u disagree with me then u are /pol/
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>55275559
Or it's more like they just haven't been challenged by super vagrants in a thousand years. Or maybe a thousand years ago it was founded by a super vagrant.

Kings and kingdoms exist in fantasyland because that's what we like.

>>55275599
And why are the other 10 PC level heroes listening to this one douche? Even high optimizing play has spellcasters weak to being mobbed by PC classes

>>55275390
How the fuck this even remotely /pol?
>talk about actually regulating wizards
I'm on to you (((Poppo))).

>>55275628
>And why are the other 10 PC level heroes listening to this one douche? Even high optimizing play has spellcasters weak to being mobbed by PC classes
Because the government already employees several of these people. Let's assume it works like this.

>mage dictator is level 15
>he employees allies and old comrades ranging from level 10-14 who will aid him
>he pays others from level 6-10 to work for him as eterminators
>if any turn on him his loyal allies looking for rewards + his allies who actual like him rise to defend him

Your premise only works under the assumption of literally no one he has under his employment will rise to defend him.

>>55275612
>Or it's more like they just haven't been challenged by super vagrants in a thousand years. Or maybe a thousand years ago it was founded by a super vagrant.
If super vagrants are just around constantly that makes no sense. If PC level people only show up every 1000 years the setting would be boring as all hell.

>>55275712
You know, there's no reason that it wouldn't quickly devolve into civil unrest. This entire society rests on the power and ambitions of a few individuals. It's inherently prone to corruption and strife.

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By the way, City of Seven Seraphs kickstarter. Back it! Everyone loves free shit, but someone's gotta pay for it first!

>>55275712
Congratulations, anon, you've made the evil empire.

>>55275343
That's not the point.
If it was lobbed at children during the arguments for these laws, the odds are something like a million to one of it having been by the "pro magic-restriction" lobby's people rather than something that happened due to, say, adventurers in a non-siege scenario.

Fireballs and innocents are already covered by regular laws against murder, arson and setting fire to other people's mobile property (peasants). Fireball is an extremely handy scapegoat because its urban use is dangerously reckless in the best of circumstances. You know what else is covered there? firing burning tar balls from a catapult, and flinging dead cows down a well.

The problem's not fireball.
It's that there's no way only indiscriminate wide-area spells would ever be the only things covered. Laws like these, reducing the chance of some crazy using a fireball (but then only psychopaths, most of whom work for the 'country', have fireballs) are the equivalent of outlawing cows because a dead one could be used to spread disease.

And it's always just step 1, because laws like these are invariably designed for abuse and expansion. Expect "magical weapons" due to their ability to pierce spells like "immunity to normal weapons" making them a threat to those who now own the place.

It's also a matter of enforcement. Going against all supernatural threats this way (what the fuck is a guy permanently encased in metal mittens going to do in the city other than think about what he'll do TO it if he's ever freed? He sure as fuck isn't going to be using chopsticks or counting coins from his purse to buy something) is irresponsibly expensive, requiring extensive resources and manpower dedicated entirely to rooting out these supposed threats. This is only a good use of your budget if your goal is to have large amounts of goons suppressing the entire population. Otherwise, some bar-fight ending tragically when five people burn from flaming god fingers is just a statistic

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So if my character only has one arm, can I do two weapon fighting if I have a bladed cape and a weapon or even something as crazy as using a boot blade, a elbow blade, knee blade and a sleeve blade?

>>55275738
>>55275775
That assumes the people running at are evil. Let's assume the mage dictator is a LG wizard who does all this to ensure the safety and prosperity of his people from evils outside the empire. Corruption and strife require leaders susceptible to corruption and strife.

>>55275812
Evil Emperors usually think they're the good guys.

>>55275808
Yes, you can twf if you have a boot blade, tail blade, barbazu beard/whatever.
>>55275812
Being Lawful Good doesn't make you immune to corruption.

>>55275791
So basically it's "the war on drugs and terrorism" and the whole thing is just a power-play to put magical-DHS in charge of a cowed, semi-brainwashed population.

>>55275824
We can literally test if he is good using Detect Good. The assumption here is that this dictator is a wise and benevolent king. King Solomon sort of thing.

>>55275836
>Being Lawful Good doesn't make you immune to corruption.
You're right, but being level 15 makes you highly resistant to corruption because you're saving throws are fantastic.

>>55275791
>(what the fuck is a guy permanently encased in metal mittens going to do in the city other than think about what he'll do TO it if he's ever freed? He sure as fuck isn't going to be using chopsticks or counting coins from his purse to buy something)
Why not just leave the city? The assumption is that the gloves come off when he leaves.

>>55275861
There are plenty of wise and benevolent kings whose countries were nevertheless flawed. King Arthur's Camelot was literally run by LG Fighters and Paladins and it was still flawed.

>>55275812
An LG wizard wouldn't come up with this, unless his Int and Wis were both his dump stats.

Anyone who thinks they're doing their population a favor, let alone somehow protecting them, by creating an enforcement arm that answers to basically no-one in charge of investigating thought-crimes, is making devils wet with excitement.

>>55273662
Same guy here. You know what would have been cool? If the Brood Master was actually controlling a swarm of nearly-microscopic eidolons. The swarm grows stronger as you level up, getting bigger and dealing more damage as it goes.

You ever play Metroid Prime 2? Remember the Ingstorm? Think something like that. At level one, they can't even deal damage if you have any armour or natural bonuses, but can distract you. But then it sizes up at the right level, and suddenly you and your friend Dave are getting pricked to death by a thousand tiny needles. And the sentient death cloud just grows bigger and angrier. But God help you if the guy has a blunderbus.

>>55275894
>Anyone who thinks they're doing their population a favor, let alone somehow protecting them, by creating an enforcement arm that answers to basically no-one in charge of investigating thought-crimes, is making devils wet with excitement.
I'm a different guy. I'm talking about >>55275486. Where the guys don't do anything about thought crimes and only teleport to go fight people who are already wrecking up the place.

>>55275891
True, but ultimately it will be a better place than one run by an evil king. You can't get rid of all corruption. A government run by a righteous superbeing will be better than anarchy as well.

>>55275712
>Because the government already employees several of these people. Let's assume it works like this.
That's a shitty assumption that doesn't even work, as most of those people would have almost not reason or incentive to work for this government

>>55275946
A fascist militant dictatorship run by a cool guy is still a fascist militant dictatorship

>>55275950
>That's a shitty assumption that doesn't even work, as most of those people would have almost not reason or incentive to work for this government
Unless they were party of the level 15 wizard's adventuring party when he founds the nation. That is the assumption I was using, that the people who started the nation were friends/allies/old comrades.

Also large amounts of money is a fine reason to work for the government, and job security.

>>55275970
How is this a fascist dictatorship? Because he has squads of people who can call when an evil cult is murdering half your town? Would it be better you don't have someone you can call and your town dies to the cult? Does the existence of SWAT teams make the US a fascist state?

Again I'm a different guy, I'm the one supporting >>55275486, no thought crimes here

>>55275996
It is one because knowledge of magic isn't the same thing as carrying a weapon.

>>55276020
I never said to outlaw knowledge of magic? Again I'm a different guy from before. I'm >>55275486. I don't want to outlaw magic, just have magic SWAT for when cults run around or a level 8 barbarian starts knocking over buildings.

>>55275996
Well, first of all, it's because there is no such thing as a benevolent dictator. There's only dictators whose self interest is not immediately detrimental to the populace.

>>55275861
>You're right, but being level 15 makes you highly resistant to corruption because you're saving throws are fantastic.
There are ways to corrupt without outright mind control, anon. Much more insidious.

>>55276045
>>55275996
Magic SWAT seems extremely easy to influence is a big thing.

>>55276054
if it's not a democracy where i have sole control over everything, then it's a dictatorship

Here's a question...

What was the last Paizo product that you remember that had a wise masculine Good-aligned white male NPC as the leader of a community or group AND was written to survive to the end of the adventure?

In other words, has Paizo actually ever made the very thing they roll their eyes at as being "too common?"

>>55276091
>>>/pol/

>>55276081
Not the argument I was making. The argument I was making is that no dictatorship is actually good.

For the sake of argument let's even remove the level 15 wizard and replace him with a CR 15 Angel.

>>55276054
>Well, first of all, it's because there is no such thing as a benevolent dictator. There's only dictators whose self interest is not immediately detrimental to the populace.
Why? Why can't someone want the good for his people. Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely is a dumb statement and when applied to fantasy worlds (or real life for that matter) doesn't have to be true.

Though I feel like this discussion is going to move towards AnCap memes.

>>55276056
>There are ways to corrupt without outright mind control, anon. Much more insidious.
I'm mean, sure, but I'm working on the assumption this particular guy is benevolent.

>>55276123
Angelic dictatorships can also easily be bad.

>>55276114
Why can't they be? What is the basis of your argument? That it is impossible for a man with absolute power to be benevolent?

Like I said >>55276123 let us, for the sake of argument replace this level 15 wizard with a level 15 Paladin, or level 15 Archon.

>>55276141
>Angelic dictatorships can also easily be bad.
They literally can't, the angel is literally made of good. Falling as an angel almost always takes direct intervention and corruption by an evil deity. If being corrupted by evil god is on the table then we can sweep away anyone being good ever.

>>55276143
It's because nobody is perfect. The more power you give an individual, the more their flaws are allowed to blossom.

>>55276112
Asking about demographics is racist?

>>55276161
Angels are made of otherwordly good, but they're still not above errors in judgement and narrow thinking. Hell, they're inhuman, alien embodiment of principles. They may be doing cosmic good, but that could easily suck for humans.

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>>55276141
What ever could you be talking about anon?

>>55276174
You know damn well why you asked what you asked, fuck off with your culture war bullshit.

>>55276200
MASTEMA GO HOME

>>55276174
Fuck off with your identity baiting.

Paizo assumes their overwhelmingly cis-white-male players are going to make characters like them. Thus, the NPCs are there to provide a contrast.

>>55276198
Then still you can just have it be the level 15 wizard.

>>55276164
The choices are it being in an imperfect and corruptible body of people or an imperfect and corruptible single person. Neither works as is shown by most nations in the world. Having someone inhumanely intelligent and wise (a level 15 wizard) is the best you're gonna get. In fiction there are great wise kings who do better than entire bodies of people (like a congress or council). Better it be in the hands of 1 person with very minor flaws than a group with an entire plethora of flaws each trying to eat the others alive.

Ok, here is the question, what do you guys suggest then? Because it's reaching the people this seems to be an argument for the sake of argument and not one where anyone has a solution that means much because the answer seems to come around to 'nothing works'.

>>55276200
I never knew how much I wanted a smug raven-styled Angel until now.

Endless smug.

>>55276243
Rule by dice

>>55276275
Name him Xavier

>>55276243
The purpose of a ruling body is that even if everyone is corrupt and selfish, they'll balance each other out because they're working against each other. Even a small flaw in a man with absolute power can have huge consequences.

Also the premise 'a benevolent king can't exist because power makes you into a retard' is a stupid argument. Sure the guy is gonna have flaws, but the flaw might be he just absolutely loves prostitutes and it doesn't effect his ability to run the country.

>>55276316
Sure, everything COULD come up roses, but that ain't gonna happen.

>>55275546
anyone?

>>55276311
Except you can get a nearly inhumanely wise/kind/benevolent king in fantasy whose flaws are small to the point that a ruling body will have worse ones collectively.

>>55276329
Why not? Again, you're working on the idea of real world ethics when the leader could be a fucking paladin.

A level 15 Paladin or a council. Which would you rather have as a ruler? I'll pick the paladin every time.

>>55276337
Be high enough level to teleport?

I dunno what you expect to hear, there is no solution for that; which is why going down next to an enemy pretty much guarantees you're out of the fight.

Also, standing defensively is not a thing. If you stand up, you provoke.

>>55276357
You're assuming his flaws will naturally be small because of mental ability scores? Those are unrelated.

>>55276383
Standing defensively gives you +4 to AC which is the bonus creatures get when attacking those prone. I didn't say you don't provoke

>>55276357
And all Paladins are nice guys who are aligned with my interests. Sure

>>55276311
>Doesn't understand how political corruption works.

>>55276404
You can total defense, and then stand up, but that's not "standing defensively."

>>55276438
Depends on the kind of political corruption. Right now, we're discussing the merits of a ruling body versus a single ruler.

>>55276398
>>55276419
I'm assuming he rules fairly and benevolently and has relatively minor mental flaws because he is a high level paladin and radiates kindness/charity/benevolence.

>>55276440
I wasn't trying to use key words, I was just describing the action

>>55276237
That's a wild assumption when most people play non-humans, or when they do play Humans they play women.

Have you seen the Paizo forums? It's nearly uniformly non-white.

>>55276510
My time as a PFS GM disagrees.

>>55276456
Yes, and you are attempting to defend a ruling body with the laughably naive premise that their individual corruption will somehow cancel each other out.

We get it bro. You don't understand wtf you are talking about. You really don't need to convince us further.

>>55276483
What do you mean by benevolence anyway? Is that going to always be aligned with the will of the people? What kind of Paladin is he? A crusading warrior? A kind redeemer? A self-appointed judge?

Even among LG Paladins, it'd be easy to wind up with a guy who should never be running anything

>>55276525
Please enlighten me as to the truth. Tell me, political messiah

>>55276510
>That's a wild assumption when most people play non-humans, or when they do play Humans they play women
Do you have a single stat to back this up?

Also what does non-human have to do with. Elves and Dwarves are basically white people anyway. Especially Elves.

>>55276522
You can't possibly be insinuating the vast majority of Pathfinder players are white men playing white guys, what explains the trends online?

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>>55276510
>>55276566

>>55276566
What fucking trend?

>>55276510
>That's a wild assumption when most people play non-humans, or when they do play Humans they play women.

Who said anything about being human? Stop attacking a strawman. And /pfg/'s repressed desire to be a little girl isn't consistent across the RPG community.

>Have you seen the Paizo forums? It's nearly uniformly non-white.

Interesting. Please, tell me how you've learned this information about a majority of the posters on an anonymous internet forum.

Oh wait, you can't because you made it up.

Seriously, fuck off back to /pol/. You'll have a much better time lamenting the existence of women and non-white people over there.

>>55276530
All paladins in pathfinder have to follow certain principles of their code, except for a couple archetypes. These include:
>defending the weak
>charity
>ensure the safety/health of others
>act with honor
>defeat those who threaten the innocent

If you are against these in an absolute ruler please tell me what you're worried about. No seriously, tell me what parts of being a paladin you're worried about the paladin doing. What ever they are they're probably against the code of conduct.

>>55276530
Let's look at the paladin code of conduct:

>Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

In this case as the ruler he is the legitimate authority.

Let's say for argument he is an Erastili Paladin. The rest of his code includes:

>My community comes first, and I will contribute to it all that I can. If I don’t give something back, who will?

>I must offer the poor in my community assistance, but I may not do the work for them—instead, I must teach them to contribute to the settlement. It is only through cooperation that a community grows strong.

>When danger threatens, I am not a fool. I seek first to make sure the weak and innocent are safe, and then I quell the danger.

>I keep to the old ways, the true ways. I am not seduced by the lure of money or power. I remember that true honor comes from within, not from the accolades of others.

>I remember that reputation is everything. Mine is pure and upstanding, and I will repair it if it is broken or tarnished. I stand by my decisions, and live so that none shall have cause to blame me.

>I show respect to my elders, for they have done much. I show respect to the young, for they have much left to do. I show respect to my peers, for they carry the load. And I shall carry it with them.

>I am honest, trustworthy, and stable. If I must leave my lands and community, before I go, I ensure that they will be tended in my absence. Even when duty calls, my duties to my home come first—letting them lapse makes me a burden on my people.

What are you afraid of him doing?

>>55276591
At what point does wanting to see more balance in NPCs equate to
>lamenting the existence of women and non-white people
Is there a sliding scale, or is it just an on/off switch?

PF storytime!

>Running evil modified Kingmaker for two PCs.
>They're gestalt monster classes/regular classes.
>One is Drider/Antipaladin, other is medusa/kineticist
>I run the normal book one first encounter, I've seen this manhandled by single PCs, this won't be a problem
>Party gets horribly beaten. Kill one of the four bandits, absolutely fails to even injure any of the others.
>Suddenly given choice of first encounter TPK, Deus Ex Machina to save them, or mystery option.
>They chose mystery option.
>The bandit lord (Who has been changed to a half dragon warchief that I had intended for them to ally with after showing dominance at the end of book 1 to lead their armies) has enslaved them and is using them to explore the stolen lands on her behalf.

I had to basically burn all of my prepared material. Fun dev atleast?

>>55276618
>>55276663
>implying you can't be both a paladin and a terrible ruler.

Let's just think of the simplest, most innocent answer, alright? He still wants to still go fight evil, so he leaves ruling to advisors, councilors, or other regents while he goes off to quest. He's done nothing wrong, except now his nation is in the hands of much, much more fallible people.

>>55276673
Well, for SJWs any disagreement at all with their extremes leads to "you're either with us or against us".

For "non-binaries" they're very binary.

>>55276691
>Let's just think of the simplest, most innocent answer, alright? He still wants to still go fight evil, so he leaves ruling to advisors, councilors, or other regents while he goes off to quest. He's done nothing wrong, except now his nation is in the hands of much, much more fallible people.
We're working on the assumption he stays the rule and doesn't compromise his rule by leaving. Using the argument 'he's a bad ruler because he doesn't actually rule and lets evil people rule instead' is retarded.

Also the man is level 15, he's going to afford a +6 Int/Wis/Cha headband.

>>55276673
The NPC's are plenty fucking balanced. No one is going to look through 10+ years of fucking content so you can find a list of White Male role models. And we can't rely on you as a primary source because you've consistently lied about this shit before.

Just fucking stop.

>>55276711
Who gives a fuck about his headband? Or are you going to say that he's going to max out sense motive so he'll never have anybody near him giving him less than perfectly good, optimal benevolent advice? Or did that not come into question because he totally has the time to do all of the duties personally.

>>55276663
>>My community comes first, and I will contribute to it all that I can. If I don’t give something back, who will?
So the Goverment robs me blind just to "provide for the community". If I'm not starving then surely I can provide more?
>I keep to the old ways
So stifle technological/sociological advancement in favor of staying farmers.

Literally every politician ever promises a bunch of nice sounding good shit that no one would necessarily take offense with. How it's implemented is another fucking story.

>>55276677
Sounds cool.

>>55276663
What if this is a city of merchants before he came along? Big business and Erastil aren't exactly partners.

>>55276759
You are trying too hard.
>>55276737
You are assuming the paladin is a fool and can't use their own judgment. If the paladin got so far in their travels as to be the ruler of a nation, it can be reasonably assumed they possess the capacity to make sound decisions and to judge who to keep around them, and who not.

>>55276783
That's a big assumption. Maybe he's a level 15 Paladin because he's a swordmaster imbued with divine power, rather than being a shrewd and wary judge.

>>55276776
You can run a business and not try to Rockefeller it.

>>55276783
>You are assuming the paladin is a fool and can't use their own judgment
You're assuming a Paladin's judgement is perfect because they're a Paladin.

>>55276737
>Who gives a fuck about his headband? Or are you going to say that he's going to max out sense motive so he'll never have anybody near him giving him less than perfectly good, optimal benevolent advice? Or did that not come into question because he totally has the time to do all of the duties personally.
At level 15 he can tell if anyone less than level 5 is lying to him nearly perfectly, but that isn't really the point. He can also tell if anyone is evil, even people below level 5, because smite good ALWAYS can tell if someone is evil (there is one 5 feat tree that can fool smite evil). You don't even have to hit the person. The paladin just has to think it and if the smite worked they're evil, if it didn't they're at worse neutral (or a minimum level 9 who spent all their feats on that feat tree to fool it and are a powerful demon worshipper because that's how you get those feats).

>>55276759
Again you assume the worst out of a being who is nearly infallibly good by rules, which seems a retarded premise. Both you and the other guy are assuming the absolute worst out of someone for who has proven time and again they are essentially nothing but the best (by being a level 15 paladin).

>>55276776
The assumption is he founds his old nation. In your case replace Erastili paladin with an Abadari paladin.

>>55276808
I'm saying Good gods aren't good for all Good people.

>GM: This is getting out of hand, I srly don't know how to challenge you, you're too powerful. Man, I hate high levels
>We're 5th level
...I think I'm going to propose other to GM

>>55276801
>Maybe he's a level 15 Paladin because he's a swordmaster imbued with divine power
He also has to embody goodness, the tenants of his code, and numerous other things.

>>55276821
No, we're assuming it's better than a council's.

The options aren't paladin or nothing, it's paladin or a council (or some ruling body).

Unless you're advocating anarchy.

>>55276825
>but the best (by being a level 15 paladin).
Or he could have just killed a bunch of high level demons.

>>55276836
So what good thing is done to you, a good person, that hurts you while you're doing good things? Because I think we're gonna hit a 'taxation is theft' AnCap meme here at some point.

>>55276845
>He also has to embody goodness, the tenants of his code, and numerous other things.
The paladin code requires mostly strength of character rather than skill at rulership. Having a pure heart doesn't mean you're necessarily good at anything related to rulership

>>55276836
What about Erastil in this instance counters running a sound business?

>>55276864
Anon, kindly stop.
You are arguing in circles around a hypothetical that you constantly try to weight in your favor.

>>55276853
And we're making the wild assumption here that this guy became a paladin by adventuring, doing good, etc. and not being being locked in a room fighting demons for a year.

A crazy assumption, I know, but try and stick with the premise instead of twisting it to try and find a way it doesn't work.

The assumption is this guy is nearly inhumanely good/benevolent/wise/kind/charitable because that's the sort of thing required for most people to hit level 15 as a paladin.

>>55276866
He's small community focused, with reverence for nature, and shuns more cosmopolitan lifestyles. I suppose you could say there's nothing in the code against it, but Erastil is definitely not the patron god of an international banking hub or something.

>>55276864
You're literally just trying to weigh the scales down in your favor at every turn, even if your weighing makes next to no sense.

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Does anyone actually enjoy playing premade campaigns? Looking over the pdfs these all look like a dredge to play and generally unfun

>>55276718
>you've consistently lied about this shit before.
Perhaps you are mistaking me for someone else?

And nobody is asking others to search thru 10+ years content. The question originally posted was "what was the last product you remembered that..." If you don't remember one, that's fine. If you do, then we would love to hear about it.

>>55276903
Jade Regent has two.

>>55276880
>>55276898
No, I'm not going to stop, because all I hear is "HE'S A PALADIN, HE MUST BE PERFECT" when paladins aren't perfect people at all. Even high level paladins are not even close to perfect people or "superhumanly benevolent" or whatever.

>>55276925
>Even high level paladins are not even close to perfect people or "superhumanly benevolent" or whatever.
I'm not seeing your argument as to why they aren't. They radiate an overwhelming amount of good at that level.

The argument is also never that he is perfect, but he is far better than a council.

>>55276925
>Even high level paladins are not even close to perfect people or "superhumanly benevolent" or whatever.
Why not?

Watching people try to argue in favor of a society heavily favoring a Lawful attitude in quite possibly the most Chaotic-leaning forum imaginable is honestly hilarious.

>>55276895
I didn't say Erastil would be the city's patron, but that a paladin of Erastil could apply the foundation of his teachings, caring for the growth and well being of the community and those in it, very well as the basis of rulership.
A mercantile city finding growth via better business practices, nurturing new industry, for example.
>>55276901
They aren't bad, I can almost guarantee that if you have played one of the better known rpgs, then you have played at least part of a module.
>>55276925
You are arguing that they are not capable at social issues, anon.

>>55276943
Radiating good is part of a class feature because he's channeling huge amounts of divine (good) power.

>>55276949

Being level 15 in any class doesn't inform personality. Paladins are LG, but every character is different, with different priorities and ways they apply and interpret the code. That's been held up since Gygax, that even two LG Paladins could be mortal enemies.

>>55276961
>You are arguing that they are not capable at social issues, anon.
I'm arguing that nothing about being a level 15 Paladin says you're a competent ruler.

>>55276961
They could be fun but some of them just seem real ridiculous in the powerlevel. Makes you feel like an average joe trying to do something impossible

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>>55276091
...

>>55276901
They can be an alright baseline for GMs that aren't confident enough to start from whole cloth, and them being premade means the players might be more willing to stay "on rails".

>>55276510
>That's a wild assumption when most people play non-humans
This so much
Everytime I see "human" in a character sheet I wonder if it wasn't a typo or the ranger wrote his FE in the wrong place

>>55276591
He meant the characters, not the players. You can see character sheets and PCs posted, the majority are non human

>>55276997
>Radiating good is part of a class feature because he's channeling huge amounts of divine (good) power.
He also is a paragon of good and adheres to a strict code of helping people.

>that even two LG Paladins could be mortal enemies.
Explain how two LG paladins can be enemies. Create the situation where this occurs. Paint me a picture.

>I'm arguing that nothing about being a level 15 Paladin says you're a competent ruler.
And what is your reasoning for him to be worse than a council of 50 low level aristocrats?

>>55276920
I thought they were gypsies

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>>55276510
>>55277050
>people don't play humans because they are boring as fucking sin mechanically
>they are also one of, if not THE BEST race mechanically
>"but just take the ARTs for variety" is meaningless when all the ARTs do is make you a worse version of a different race the only upside being "can say you're human"

>>55277079
>Explain how two LG paladins can be enemies. Create the situation where this occurs. Paint me a picture.
They are warriors of different nations/gods/non-axis ideals/personal rivalry/unrelated oaths put them at odds, etc.

>>55277079
>Explain how two LG paladins can be enemies
Reinhard von Lohengramm and Yang Wenli, or perhaps if you want to be more strict, Siegfried Kircheis and Yang Wenli.

>>55277079
Not everyone who is Lawful Good (or any alignment really) is necessarily on the same team.

>>55277137
Again, paint me a picture where this happens. Be specific. Because I'm not seeing one where when the time for combat comes they would actually fight.

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>>55277079
Sigurd and Eldigan

>>55277153
>Yang Wen-li
>a paladin
>LG
You what?

>>55277192
>Sticks to his ideals to the end
>Doesn't want power for himself
>Follows the principles of democracy as an unbendable guideline
>Believes in democracy as a system with rules, not just as freedom from autocracy.
>not LG

>>55277160
Paladin A is a knight in service of Red Country.
Paladin B is a knight in service of Blue Country.
Red Country and Blue Country are at war.
Paladin A and Paladin B encounter each other on the battlefield.

>>55277079
>And what is your reasoning for him to be worse than a council of 50 low level aristocrats?
Because aristocrats balance each other's evil to neutral. You horseshoe with the paladins back into evil.

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>>55277165
Goddammit I just closed /feg/, you made me think I closed the wrong tab.

I'm still not seeing why a level 15 paladins is a worse ruler than 50 level 3 aristocrats.

>>55277249
He's not worse. He's just not automatically better.

>>55277262
I would say in 95% of cases he's far better equipped and capable as a ruler. Sure you can make a paladin with no ability to rule but even then his skills at base are probably better than most of the level 3s after they invest.

This is separate from his personality but it is still way more likely that the paladin has a better personality and demeanor to rule than the council will.

>>55277249
>1 ruler
bad idea, a single person has a single vision, he will not get his ideas challenged, he'll become stagnant, he'll be impartial.

>>55277310
>Impartial
meant partial

LG fascist rule is better for everyone than democracy. Democracy puts decision making power in the hands of politically illiterate citizens.

>>55277302
I disagree that a holy warrior is necessarily better personality-wise. His only edge is really just being level 15, but a level 15 aristocrat would have most of the same advantages.

>>55277310
That works on the assumption he has no advisors and literally runs the entire government single handedly. So in other words a retarded premise.

He has absolute power and advisors just like every other dictator and king in history.

>>55277323

Benevolent dictatorships are always a possibility. Unfortunately, you don't always get benevolent dictators.

>want to play a Str/Cha character
>realize that what I want from a Str/Cha build is done infinitely better by a Str/Wis build or a Dex/Cha build
>unless I can combine homebrew and 3pp from 2-3 sources

looking at /pfg/ chargen has fucking destroyed me

>>55277083
>>people don't play humans because they are boring as fucking sin mechanically
Every race that isn't built for fucking cheese is honestly.

>>55276920
>Jade Regent has two.
Found one - Sandru Vhiski - caravan owner and all around swashbuckling badass.

Who was the other?

Not that it matters overly much - with even just one we can definitely state Paizo does NOT always paint white men as evil and/or ineffectual.

So whenever somebody talks shit about Paizo and SJW /pol/ crap, you can look them right in the eye and say - "But what about Sandru Vhiski!"
.
.
.
.... That sounded alot better in my head.

>>55277332
The other edge is being LG. A LG level 15 aristocrat wouldn't be as good if only because he's more suspetible to mental encroachment.

>>55277323
>LG fascist
Oxymoron.

>>55277354

Is it really so impossible to make a respectable STR/CHA character with 1pp, anon? You can easily get a Paladin, Bloodrager, melee Oracle, or Skald going.

>>55277354
I'm currently playing and having a blast with a Str/Cha Monkadin

>>55277354
Blood Rager, done.

>>55276091
Let's humor you then:

Ironfang Invasion is the latest
Despite taken partially place in Arabia land Strange Aeons is predominantly white
Iron Gods doesn't have enough important PC's to qualify for that, unless you count Kevoth-Kul who is a 50/50 entirely based on the players, maybe even Khonnir and Redfang,
Never read Wrath so out the window
Reign of Winter is literally femininity the AP, though it does have a few who can survive
Mummy's Mask is Egypt so no
Hell's Vengeance yes
Hell's Rebels yes
Skulls and Shackles yes
Rise of the Runelords yes
Curse of the Crimson Throne yes
Serpent's skull not read
Shattered Star yes
Second Darkness who cares?
Legacy of Fire wait this thing existed?
Council of Thieves yes
Kingmaker is so malleable so who cares
Carrion Crown never read
Jade Regent is mostly asia themed, so no
Giantslayers never read

And for the record Ironfang Invasion is mostly by Crystal Frasier, so take that as you will

Anything else?

>>55277353
We were working with the original premise that the ruler is a King Solomon like figure.

>>55277386
AnCap babies need to leave.

>>55277373
You're implying that paladins aren't

>>55277411
>not being in favor of Facism means your full on Ancap

>>55277424
No, a paladin is FAR more resistant to corruption because he has Cha to save and immunity to charm and fear. I mean for a mechanical standpoint.

Also the fact the average paladin is less likely to fall to temptation than the average aristocrat.

If we had to identical characters in temper and personality, two brothers perhaps, one an aristocrat and one a paladin, I'd choose the paladin because of his code and his class features.

>>55277360
Oleg is also competent, willing to attack and defend against the bandits until Kressle (who, mind you, is 2 PC levels rather than 2 NPC levels like Oleg) threatens him.

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Friend is taking spirit binder wizard archetype, whats a hilarious feat for his cat I can talk him into taking?

>>55276901
GM'd RoTRL and play CoT, both were a fun time for all. Inb4 "Wahh Council of Thieves makes you feel underpowered compared to the others APs." Fuck you, comfy adventure is comfy.

>>55277410
Well appreciate the effort, Khonnir and Kevoth are both possibilities.

>>55277391
Making a "respectable build" doesn't make it something I actually want to play is what I'm finding.

>>55277716
What is it you actually want to play anon? Describe the concept.

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Have you given thanks for your party's punch girl today?

>>55277716
>I want to play STR charisma
>here are several varied STR charisma options
What the fuck do you want to play then?

>>55277770
Considering we're level 4 and she's not yet at the point where she adds any stat mods to damage yet, I'm not thanking her for much right now.

What game has caught your eye, /pfg/?

Tell me!

>>55277771

i just want to be the best at everything
is that so wrong?

>>55277811
You can't, only possibility is being a high level arcanist.

>>55277770
No because we are not degenerate enough to have punch girls. We have only had heal-sluts, belly-shirt lock pickers and mechanics, holier than thou virgin and furries.

>>55277758
>>55277771
To be perfectly honest, an Inquisitor with the Conversion inquisition does pretty much anything I'd really want out of Charisma besides "takes leadership", something that isn't (and probably shouldn't) be relevant at most tables. That frustrates me.

>>55277392
>monkadin
Wut?

>>55278153
monk/paladin
Not that hard to understand

>>55278041
So I mean, be a Bard a Skald if you want support/archery bullshit. What's the issue?

>>55278174
>Str/Wis/Dex/Con/Cha

>>55278281
>Scaled Fist
And if Bloodforge shit is around Cha to HP is trivial.

>>55278209
>Strength Inquisitor
>"support/archery bullshit"

???

>>55278305
I mean most of the Inquisitors I see try to be support and or archers. I don't really see anything an Inquisitor does that a Bard or a Skald couldn't do basically.

>>55278281
As the one playing it, Sohei1/Enlightened Paladin6 for now.
I add Cha to Dex for AC and CMD (enlightened), to Ini (feat) and to Saves (Paladin)
I always act in surprise turns (Sohei) and can't be caught flatfooted due going later in Ini (trait)
Also have fate's favored shenanigans

>>55275774
what is this?

>>55278388
Planescape but with Akashic stuff.

>>55278397
cool cool, I'll check that out

>>55278341
Archery is more a Dex thing. I've seen Strength-based beatstick inquisitors as a very popular choice, and there's plenty of deities whose favored weapons make it pretty easy to do. Sanctified Slayer can be a pretty good choice for it, too.

>>55278352
>I'm having a blast
>Monk/Paladin
either your GM is babysitting you our you're mentally handicapped.