/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>53424429
Hunter obviously.
1. Superpowers are few and far between
2. No need to know anything about politics and culture of given splat
3. You can play average joes that dug too deep
4. No need to look at wider mythos

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How did you resist the Patriarch today, anon?

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>>53424648

>>53424648

Go back to tumblr.

>>53424648
>>53424668

We're off to a great start boys

>>53424648
Just to clarify for everyone, the Patriarch is not the Incarna of the patriarchy; rather, he's the Incarna of the unpleasant parts of Abrahamic religions, kind of like the Father from Awakening.

>>53424429
Mage, of course. Why waste time with lesser lines?

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>>53424758

>>53424729
Isn't patriarch just creation of wyrm back in owod?

>>53424832
Actually, the Weaver, but the Patriarch is Wyrm-tainted.

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How'd you incorporate the God-Machine in other splats? Like Vampire?

>>53424910
IIRC, the Ordo Dracul stumbles upon Infrastructure and thinks it's a Wyrm's Nest in of the books.

>>53424910
Read Holy Engineers in Danse Macabre book for 1ed. You will need to work details that changed during transition from nwod to cofd but it's there

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>>53424648

>>53424648
I needed that laugh.

There are some new videos on the WW channel where you can see the writers for the preludes talk about "muh diversity"

>>53425070
foolish feminist. By turning that member of the patriarchy into a frog you've given him unlimited power

>>53424907
Isn't the Weaver female?

Someone inform me on Changeling the dreaming

>>53425705
will the Anurana be adopted by the Incarna representing Kek?

>>53425707
No, none of the Triat members have genders in any conventional sense. A lot of Garou speak of the Weaver as though it was female, but it's not any more literally true than the Black Furies considering the Weaver (or Namer, as they prefer) male.

>>53425070
>Not naming that image M20. Anon plz.

>>53424429
Depends on the person. I think Changeling the Dreaming can be a good way to ease someone used to playing D&D, Pathfinder, and the like into the setting. Hunters Hunted, Hunter the Reckoning, and Hunter the Vigil are good suggestions as well.

>>53424729

Personally, one of the things I'd like to see given a small bit of detail - a paragraph or two, or a small list - is the other Exarch cults and lesser Ministries out there. Something Dave mentioned on the OPP forums is that Mammon has another lesser Ministry which seeks to control the world by controlling access to technology such that it creates a massive wealth and power disparity.

I'd like to see that for other Exarchs; other interpretations of their themes and schemes. The Father is the Exarch of Prime, which means his dominion is over the very concept of truth, and that, to my mind, makes him also the Exarch of accepted and conventional wisdom.

I'd like to see a bit about the Father being the Exarch of things like the "scientific" racism/sexism movements of the 30s (which carried on before and after, but they really hit their peak there), or the General (or the Raptor) worshiped by those who see it as the incarnation of a universe that is cold and at times outright hateful towards humanity; unleashing natural disasters that ruin communities and deprive people of resources and opportunities.

It'd be nice to see other interpretations.

>>53426516
I agree, although if any organization is likely to want to define all of its members into neat little slots, it's the Seers. And that's a really interesting take on the Father especially.

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>werewolf
>fights against evil industrialist who strives only for power and employs forces beyond his understanding to accomplish his goals
>the final battle is against the force he has been relying on which has gone mad from being tampered and toyed with
>by defeating it and saving the world you restore balance to the earth and cosmos
>tfw fucking Sonic Unleashed was secretly the first Werewolf the Apocalypse vidya all along

>>53426516

I'd prefer Pantechnicon as Ruin or Prophet, personally. Technology only giving opportunities to a chosen few or the parade of tech cults of personality.

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>>53427164

>>53427164
D
E
E
P
E
S
T

L
O
R
E

Okay, so in the vampire game I'm playing right now, there's a Hunter who knows the name and address of one player and the name of another. Everyone seems to be convinced that the Hunter will help us fight another vampire (we met her when we were trying to burn the vampire's house down, only to discover she was already doing that) but this still seems like there's no way it can end well.

>>53427512
Does anyone have any advice as to what I should do? How can I convince the other players this is a bit stupid?

>>53427522
Just embrace the hunter

>>53427512
Anyone in your group know presence or dominate? Because thats how you nip the problem in the bud.Mind fuck it into submission then kill it when its outlived it usefulness

>>53427536
That's how you might get a future VII member.

>>53424648
Did you know that Iran is not a patriarchy?
Only 3.5% of convicted criminals are female in Iran.

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/profiles/Iran/Crime/Prisoners

>>53427536
That seems too easy.
>>53427569
Nope. Least, not as far as I know.

>>53427746
Why not just ghoul the hunter?

>>53427597
You do realize sexism and other biases are capable of harming people other than the ones they're actually oriented against, right? For example, when gay people weren't allowed in the military cuz of homophobia, straight people made up the vast majority of combat deaths.

>>53427746
Time to kiss the ass of the nearest ventrue then

>>53427793
Shit, I just realized I might have a use for that stupid blood jar ritual I learned as a joke. Thanks!

>>53426516
Any good ideas for ministry names? Or do Exarchs have to have a certain level of power before they get one?

>>53427801
Sexism isn't oriented against any specific group though. It has no purpose but arises organically. It may disproportionately harm certain groups but that has to be calculated honestly and fairly.

>>53427984
Something doesn't need to have a "purpose" to be oriented against a specific group. See: homophobia. There's no actual purpose to having a societal bias against gay people but there you go. The fact that the bias hurts people outside the group that society is biased against doesn't mean society is biased against people outside that group.

>>53427968
The exarchs don't require power to become archgenitors of greater ministries. Whatever jockeying happens between exarch, if it happens at all, as ministries rise and fall is unknowable.

The best explanation for why greater ministries are in their position is that the exarch they serve can be bothered to give token interest in whatever they're up to.

Names for the 5 lesser ministries are up to you. I think DaveB created one for one of his actual plays.

>>53424648
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05BwRQQhbkI&t=0s

>>53428156
This is nu-WW

>>53425707

>The Triad
>Having gender

Hell, even the Furies will tell you that no even Pegasus has a gender.

I think the exception are things like Minotaur, spirit of manliness, or the Gorgons, spirits of femininity that are explicitly of that gender and represent what people think about it.

>>53424429
I like Hunter, it helps putting the people in the perspective of someone living in that shitty world before knowing why thing are like that.
>Welp life is shit
>No son, is actually worse than it should be, let me shown you WHY
>Oh shit, this soulless monsters are pulling the strings from the shadows, fuck them, fuck them all to hell~!

>>53428156
How does a diversity of labels provide any diversity of ideas and content when these people all bandwagon and function as a religion and dehumanize anyone who commits 'blasphemy' against them?

>>53428340

>Anon learns how all political worldviews work, is frustrated that they don't get to be part of the orthodoxy

>>53428493
I've never wanted to be part of the orthodoxy, the idea of considering anything blasphemy disgusts me. Why would I want to be scum like that? Unlike them I don't even want to take away their rights for it either.

>>53427801
>You do realize sexism and other biases are capable of harming people other than the ones they're actually oriented against, right?

Some say it's even possible to be sexist against men!

Playing Bloodlines for the first time and Hotel level is some creepy shit holy fuck

>>53428643

Of course it is.
People that claim otherwise are idiots.

>>53428543

>the idea of considering anything blasphemy disgusts me
>Anon has no actual political beliefs, ethos, or insight, only pure emotional reaction
>Is still frustrated that they can't be part of the orthodoxy of the political system of the game they like

>>53428701

You're in for a wild ride.

>>53428724
Fuck mate. If other vamp told me go check out that haunted hotel I would probably go face the sun. Fuck this noise

>>53428714

I'm not even that guy, but are you just projecting that "wants to be part of the orthodoxy" thing?

Any body got the new beast supplement?

>>53428863

Less that and more "no shit there's a perceived orthodoxy and a blasphemy in any solidified political system that seeks power, the only real discomfort comes from the realisation that to them you are in the latter and not the former."

That anon would probably prefer that their orthodoxy replace the orthodoxy they feel alienated from, that's all. Nothing bad or shameful about that, it's just something to be more honest about these days.

>>53428970

Which one? Conquering Heroes?

>>53426762

Thanks! And, yeah, the Seers are basically oppressive hierarchy incarnate. They named their whole religious structure the Iron Pyramid. Literally a pyramid scheme.

>>53427229

That's reasonable. The Prophet as the avatar of Great Man History is honestly one of my favourite things, especially since Mage is, itself, an RPG and therefore has protagonists who ostensibly ARE the aforementioned Great People.

Incidentally, it suddenly occurs to me that the Silver Ladder's messiah complex actually plays into this and I love that.

>>53427968

"Ministry" is just a general term for an allied network of Exarch slave cults that all see a given Exarch the same way. If more than one pylon worship the General as the incarnation of natural disasters, they know about one another, and have a unified power structure? Bam. Ministry.

There's a ton of Ministries out there, not just one for each Exarch.

>>53428643

All sexism affects everyone. It doesn't harm people equally, but any sexist argument that says "Women shouldn't be in the military, that's for men!" simultaneously cuts off women from military service and all the career and political opportunities therein, but it also forces men into a role where they have to be tough and strong and brave. Not everyone is those things.

Sexism, racism... These things are all attempts to force people into boxes. Even if you're in the "better" box (and some boxes really are better to be in than others for the majority of people), it'd be better for you and everyone to avoid that shit.

>>53428983
lol no, no one should follow my beliefs, it would be a horrific world if they did. That is part of why other people pushing theirs as some sort of hyper correct solution is so disgusting. I literally want no part in any of it.

>>53428983

I'm sort of talking in that guys stead here but:
But aren't you assuming he wants power or he wants HIS orthodoxy instituted?

Because your argument seems just pointing out that everything is, to simplify, 'stop liking what I don't like'.

>>53429121
It's a shame that I haven't so far met anyone else who shares my primary interest in Mage, i.e. casting the Exarchs down from their thrones.

>>53428156
I just realized that thing is trans

>>53429184
...That would be a Bad Idea. The Exarchs are pillars of reality; casting them out would cause harm to reality on the level the Exarchs caused when they sundered the Silver Ladder

>>53429184

Well, you have my curiosity. How would you go about casting down the Exarchs?

>>53429300
In my head canon the Exarchs casting down and killing the old gods created the Abyss. So, in my head canon that would expand the Abyss even further.

>>53429184

Read Imperial Mysteries to get a clue of just how bizarre a world sans Exarchs would be.

I personally think the Seers choose to cast the Exarchs in a light that favors their agenda rather than telling us the truth about them.

The Exarchs & Oracles ARE the Arcana Themselves as we understand them, and the Ministers are playing their servants for fools in service to their own incomprehensible agendas.

>>53429107
Building a legend. It went out to backers this week

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>>53429184
I tried to run Mage for my group but they weren't that into it.
Also they let a cannibal alternative spirit get a big book of the Prince, so I kinda ruled that they'd failed and ended the game.

Maybe I'll get in a game some day!

>>53429395

The Exarchs and Oracles are not the Arcana, but they're definitely important Supernal symbols. Specifically, they're human symbols and symbols of control. Wipe them out from the universe and... Well... Who knows what'll happen? Won't be good for humanity, though, unless you come up with a hell of a replacement.

>>53429184
There are no thrones the exarchs are fundamental aspects of reality. Casting them out would mean destroying and rebuilding the universe ex nihilo.

Can you imagine someone of that power? 10 dots in all arcana before ascension?

>>53429428
The Exarchs represent universal concepts as well, I believe. Not just human tyranny.

Gonna probably run Fallen is Babylon for a mortal group soon, expanding it a bit so it lasts about 3 sessions. I'm not even going to try converting the 1e demons to 2e, maybe refluff them a bit but remaking the demon characters as DtD characters seems like far too much of a clusterfuck.

Am I making a mistake? Anyone else run it and have some advice?

>>53429490
>Fallen is Babylon
Those 1e demons literally aren't DtD demons, they follow a different cosmology and likely still exist even in CofD. They are demons of vice, utterly unconnected to the god machine. Converting them would likely ruin the story.

Has anyone actually run a campaign with the Seers instead of the Pentacle?

I ran a Banisher campaign once, got crazy when the players started "growing out of it" and deciding not all Magic is evil, but that Mage society is utter shit and needs to be torn down.

redpill me on Kiasyds
also are there Illithids in CoD/WoD or are the cool tentalce doods DnD exclusive

>>53429301
Presumably, the goal of the campaign is to figure it out. Personally, though, I've never liked the "Exarchs are pillars of reality" interpretation much, since it seems to make everything feel much more futile.

>>53429490

Yeah, don't even refluff them. CofD has multiple types of Demons, from the Goetic to the denizens of the Inferno to the Unchained of Descent. I can't remember which non-Unchained Demons are in Fallen is Babylon, but run them as is either way.

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Koro Sensei (Assassination Classroom)

Virtue: Compassionate
Vice: Petty
Aspirations: Bring Out The Best In Others, Foil Attempts At Assassinating Him

Mental Attributes: Intelligence 8, Wits 9, Resolve 8
Physical Attributes: Strength 7, Dexterity 10, Stamina 7
Social Attributes: Presence 6, Manipulation 5, Composure 4

Skills: Academics (Strategy) 5, Computer 4, Crafts 5, Investigation (Assassination) 6, Medicine 4, Occult 3, Politics 2, Science 5, Athletics 8, Brawl 3, Firearms 3, Larceny 4, Survival 3, Weaponry 3, Empathy (Individual Needs) 6, Expression (Teaching) 4, Intimidation (Sudden Seriousness) 4, Persuasion (Bringing Out The Best In Others) 5, Socialize 3, Subterfuge 1

Merits: Area Of Expertise (Assassination, Bringing Out The Best In Others), Common Sense, Danger Sense (Advanced), Encyclopedic Knowledge (Academics, Investigation, Science), Fast Reflexes 3 (Advanced), Indomitable (Epic), Interdisciplinary Specialty (Assassination, Bringing Out The Best In Others), Professional Training 5 (Assassination Teacher: Investigation, Empathy, Expression), Trained Observer 3 (Advanced), Ambidextrous, Double Jointed (Advanced), Iron Stamina 3, Sleight Of Hand, Inspiring (Epic), Iron Will, Pusher, Sympathetic, Table Turner, Untouchable, Untouchable Style 4, Close Quarters Combat 1, Defensive Combat (Brawl), Unarmed Defense 5

Willpower: 22
Defense: 27
Initiative: 17
Speed: Special (See Absurd Agility)
Health: 14 (Size 7)
Potency: 10

[continued in next post]

>>53429630
Dread Powers: Absurd Agility*, Influence 3 (Assassination), Know Soul, Mimir’s Wisdom*, Numen (Blast, Omen Trance, Stutter Step*), Reality Stutter, Shifting*, Surprise Entrance, Unnatural Healing*

*Absurd Agility: Koro Sensei adds his Potency to Perception rolls and his Defense. His Defense is applied against ranged attacks, and his Dodging rolls receive the Rote Quality. His Speed is considered to be enough to win any Chase against mundane opponents. He can fly up to his full Speed. In the case of supernatural opponents with powers that significantly enhance their Speed, roll a Clash Of Wills against Koro Sensei’s Dexterity + Potency. Furthermore, Koro Sensei may spend 1 Willpower point to reduce the time taken by most Mental and Physical Extended Actions into 1 turn per roll. Spending 3 Willpower points makes each roll reflexive, allowing Koro Sensei to multitask to extreme levels.

*Mimir’s Wisdom: As per the Atavism (Beast: The Primordial,page 127). Koro Sensei is considered to always be at Low Satiety, and can mimic the Satiety Expenditure effect by spending 2 Willpower points.

*Stutter Step: The being's movements accelerate into the flicker-stop of a defective movie reel. They may reflexively spend 1 Essence to perform a Dodge without giving up their action. Koro Sensei can use this Numen for free.

*Shifting: As per Idigam version (Werewolf: The Forsaken 2ED, page 222). This Dread Power can be used to mimic his miscellaneous powers like Molting and Absolute Defense.

*Unnatural Healing: Koro Sensei can only receive aggravated damage from weapons specifically designed to be his Bane (any other potential source of aggravated damage is downgraded into lethal). He also heals all lethal and bashing damage reflexively each turn.

>>53429401

You'd have to find actual backers of Beast here to get a link.
You're more likely to find those on Rpg.net than here.

>>53429554
That sounds super cool! Could you give us some stories from it?

Also, has anyone got any advice for a cool "first monster" for a Hunter group? I was thinking a werewolf, but they might be better as a pack, which I'd want to leave until the hunters are more experienced. Maybe some kind of demon?

>>53429715
>>53429401
>>53429107
>>53428970
Building a Legend hasn't gone out to backers yet
Source: Backed the book because I liked the initial draft before they fucked it to death in the half assed rewrite.

>>53429630
>>53429645

This is pretty cool.

>>53429488

The Exarchs are the symbols of control/tyranny, but they're human symbols of such. That's one of the important things about the Exarchs and why removing them without replacing them would be a terrible idea: Yes, they're horrifying cosmic masters, who, if they had their way, would force the world to bow and submit to eternal slavery, but they're human in focus, which is why humans are apparently masters of all they survey.

Mage is, very subtly, exceptionally anthropocentric. The Exarchs might very well be why the universe is that way.

>>53429554

Kind of. I ran a solo thing for someone, with them as a Sleepwalker in service to the Seers. It was interesting.

>>53429617

It's not futile. It just requires more consideration. That's one of the things about taking down the gods: Everyone thinks about how great it'll be to tear everything down. Less so what comes after.

But still, it's sort of a burden on the ST to say that the campaign is about finding out. Do you have any preferred avenues? Anything that you would want to use?

And I mean anything. I like hearing people's interests. Do you wanna turn religion into a weapon against them, creating a new Supernal god to take their place on the throne (with you as its prophet)? Do you wanna Awaken the entire world and turn it against them? Do you want to dissolve the world and their sympathy to it so that the world can begin anew?

Hell, I'll take "Opening a rift to the Supernal and fighting the Exarchs with giant mecha". I just love seeing people's interests.

>>53429753

When you say first, do you mean very first, or the first "big" one?

>>53429754
>Here we have one of elusive Beast-backers in his natural environment. His species is known for poor decision making and crushing guilt.

>>53429754

>I liked the intital draft

Well, I suppose it had to make its KS goal somehow.

>>53429779
Hunter-anon here! I mean "very first"!

>>53429808

Alrighty! You said you want these Hunters to face down a werewolf eventually, yeah? As in Uratha type?

If so, why not start them off with a spirit? Something weak but still dangerous to cut their teeth on and let them get a feeling for how big the world is.

Maybe some weak little Rank 1 spirit (or Rank 2 if you really want to put 'em in danger) has escaped into the material world and is urging or possessing some poor bastard and making them do awful things? This could range from murdering local pets (a weak predatory spirit) to burning down houses (fire spirit) to trying to injure people so that they have to go to hospital (healing spirit).

It might not even be apparent something supernatural is involved until the players actually apprehend the guilty party and a fire demon erupts from their mouth. Or there could be a series of identical arsons or murders despite the apparent perpetrator being arrested after every single one.

All this could lead to them learning about spirits and their shenanigans, essentially playing supernatural border patrol, up until they start messing about in the territory of werewolves.

Sound good?

>>53429888
Damn man, that sounds really solid! I'm gonna work with that!

>>53429960

Enjoy! If you're looking for books to refer to, Spirit Slayers covers Hunter groups and Tactics related to spirits and werewolves. The Book of Spirits is also pretty good, but I really recommend the Predators book from Werewolf for a pile of example spirits (even if their relative power levels are keyed more for fighting a werewolf pack). They need some updating, but that's mostly just Manifestations and Numina tweaks. More valuable by far, though, is how Predators goes into how spirits think and tend to act.

So yeah. Best of luck. If you have any more questions, I'll keep an eye on the thread.

>>53429779
>But still, it's sort of a burden on the ST to say that the campaign is about finding out. Do you have any preferred avenues? Anything that you would want to use?
Not as such. I find the Exarchs as written to be really irritatingly abstract, which I admit dampens my interest in the game as a whole. I like having more personalized enemies, a lot of the time.

>>53430024

Then your enemies should probably be an individual Seer pylon, rather than the Exarchs as a whole. The Exarchs are abstract, because they're a concept as much as a group of entities.

The General isn't just some deity sitting on a throne, urging a police officer to beat a protestor's skull in; it is the very act of the officer beating that protestor's skull in. Fighting that means fighting against the very concept of using violence to achieve control.

>>53430132
To be honest, I've actually been most interested in the Exarchs as a concept with my idea of porting them to Masquerade and using them as the Aeons, the divine enemies of the Followers of Set, if you're familiar with the Setite clanbook.

>>53430153

I am not. Masquerade was never really my game, sorry.

>>53429753

I wish I'd kept a log.

Basically it started out kind of Call of Cthluhu-esque until they kidnapped and interrogated a mage and found out that they might be (gasp) wrong about this whole thing.

So they went undercover in a different city, and decided that mage society, frankly, blows.

They made enough friends to not see mages themselves as the enemy, but rather the society that compels them to be total cunts above and beyond what human nature would demand.

And they're going to tear it down so Mages can truly be free to be who they're supposed to be.

>>53429779

>Mage is, very subtly, exceptionally anthropocentric.

If a sperg like me gets a Humanocentric takeaway from the NWoD, then they're not being nearly subtle enough about it. Every splat is related to humanity in some defining way.

>>53430024
The Exarchs are abstract, but their servants aren't. It sounds like you'd be better served with a lower scope game, like deposing a tetrarch or stopping the Seers from, say, building the roads of a city into the shape of an Atlantean glyph to provide them subliminal control of any who drive it.

As an anon above hinted at, it's possible the Exarchs aren't even that bad; they are human symbols of control, and the entire concept that this universe is one we can understand and tame is a likely result of their ascension. It's entirely possible to view the Exarchs as amoral, rather than evil, and treat the Seers as using them as a means to cement their temporal power.

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Let's try to do WoD file names.

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>>53430307

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>>53430353
Wrong Nazi. Here's the literal Tremere.

>>53430368
>>53430353
Assamites detected

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>>53430353
>>53430368

>>53430388
Mine is true though http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Heinrich_Himmler

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>>53430368

>>53430398
>>53430368
Truly 90s were time of some glorious wtf?

>>53430428
This still irritates me. What kind of edgy jackass thinks this is cool?

>>53430682
What kind of person kids irritated at pulp fiction RPGs?

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>>53430682
Everyone from Pasteur to Alexander the Great's mother was a vampire. It was bound to happen.

>>53430534
It was mostly just embarrassing.

>>53429486
>10 dots in all arcana before ascension?
Isn't that impossible? If I remember right even at gnosis 10 you can only have one arcanum at 10, and then a second one at 9, and then everything else lower. Hell you can't even get to five in every arcanum can you?

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>>53430307

>>53430914
There is no limitation. Everything is theoretically possible for an Archmagus.

That's kind of the point.

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>>53430924

>>53430682
Would you think it tacky if I thought it'd be interesting to have Huey Long as a vampire?

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>>53430934
No, not really.
Granted this might have changed in second edition, as 'other arcana max' is now listed at 5 once you hit gnosis six.

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>>53430983
"Everyone a Prince, but no one wears a crown!"

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>>53430219
Sounds cool! Is it still ongoing? I'd love to hear how they get on fighting the Pentecale/Seers!

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>>53430219

Not just splats, but everything supernatural is defined by it's relation to humanity in NWoD. This is of course, from the Human Perspective. OWoD was more willing to try and depict the Inhuman.

They failed a lot of the time, but they tried.

>>53430290

I honestly prefer an amoral read of the Exarchs themselves. The Seers are cunts, but the beings they worship simply... are.

>>53430974

Dipping into OMage territory with this one

>>53430997
You could always just alter your template to change your caps with other imperial practices...

>>53431009
Pretty much.

I also had in mind that he'd nominally just be the prince of New Orleans, but would in fact have de facto control over all cities in Louisiana and a fair chunk of influence over mortal politics still.

In oWoD, he might be a Brujah, but I'm not completely positive; he'd be a progressive Camarilla member wanting a union with the anarchs, and violently anti-Sabbat. In nWoD, he would work as a Ventrue, and would be perhaps the most powerful Carthian in the nation.

>>53431038
This is true.

You could also mimic other nine dot Arcana if you got Spirit at nine without the need to gather Quintessence.

>>53430997
There's no longer arcana caps in 2e. Which allows for some hilariously powerful combinations.

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>>53430307

>>53431067
Giving yourself rank 8 Influences using Spirit Transfiguration is a clever way to work around certain limitations.

Spirit as a whole is more powerful than any purview, but Influences are instant with no fuel to speak of.

>>53431031

It's kinda on hiatus, but you've inspired me to try and push to bring it back.

The plan they laid out last time we played involved pursuing the knowledge they once scorned in order to try and get on a more even footing and starting out with finding trustworthy people who were also disillusioned.

One of them was looking into fringe groups like the Blank Badges and Roses of Eden for possible allies.

I'm also going to take a closer look at the "punk" section of the Chronicler's guide and DtD for espionage stuff.

>>53431067
Couldn't you do this with Forces as well? Give yourself permanent unlimited command over certain aspects of everything, such as fire.

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>>53431078
Imagine this fucker w/ 2e stats.

>>53431179
Well maybe, but like everything else transfiguration is so far in plot device territory it has whatever capabilities you and your st agree on.

>>53431163
I hope you can get things rolling again! I'd love to hear about it if you do!

>>53431194
>Psychic Domination Rote he probably made.
Disgusting.

>>53431078
There aren't at lower, like I already noted. I don't think its reasonable to assume the same is true of archmastery and that any archmaster can have 10's across the board because of that alone

>>53431078

Yes, there are. You can have on arcanum at a max of 3 at Gnosis 1, all others are maxed at 2. Every even dot of Gnosis, your non-highest arcana cap rises to the same level as the highest. Every odd dot of Gnosis, the highest increases by 1.

That is, all max at 3 for Gnosis 2. Highest max at 4 for Gnosis 3. All max at 4 for Gnosis 4. Highest at 5 at Gnosis 5. And so on.

This progression means that Archmastery must follow a different progression, since, if you followed it, you'd only be able to have a highest arcanum at seven dots.

If it were me, I'd just say that your highest arcanum dot is your Gnosis for an Archmaster.

>>53431096

Influences use Essence...

>>53430983
>>53431009
>>53431058
>1930s game featuring Huey Long as the Prince of New Orleans

I didn't realize how much I wanted this until now

>>53431230
In the 1930's, he probably wouldn't be prince yet, but (in nWoD, anyway) he'd have a powerful movement going against Vidal. He'd also likely consider the Lancea Sanctum unholy, and would aggressively push a populist Christian Carthianism.

>>53431227
>Influences use Essence...

Was referring more to the fact that they don't require Quintessence and are instant.

>>53431179
Transfiguration explicitly does "anything"

The only limitation being extending it and giving it to others. The effects being absolutely permanent.
Naturally, giving yourself command of Influences and certain purviews is a work around.

>>53431277

Yeah, but they probably require truly unholy amounts of Essence to do anything resembling Archmastery; the kind a Rank 8 deity is constantly sucking in from across the entirety of the planet. By the time you're sucking enough Essence down to power an Influence on that scale, you're basically already performing a world-changing act of Archmastery that will utterly deform the world to the point of violating the Pax.

reposting


Anonymous 05/24/17(Wed)13:35:17 No.53410762▶>>53410864 >>53413365
So, this is the Hamiltonian guy, and am just throwing up the basic premise from the campaign I want to run. First time WoD ST looking for some ideas for a campaign I am running. The premise is, the game will start off with the four players playing a long life group of friends who are all exposed to the various creatures of the night, each in a different way, in between one of their monthly role playing game session. It may seem farfetched, but, their fates have all been modified by the intervention of demons and the god machine.

The players so far are: Makaran Beast
Hunter (who is secretly playing a fetch)
Unfleshed Promethean
And undetermined, with choice of vampires, werewolves, Geist, or Mage.

Story facts so far It will be setting in Canada, specifically the Golden Horseshoe, focusing on Hamilton, Ontario. Their is an amalgamated council, which has representation from the various creatures, the seats being filled by vampires, werewolves, changeling, and mages. Beasts and Prometheans don't have a major voice in the community, and are commonly looked down on. Various NPCS will actually be the in-game DM of the friend group, who is in actuality a Demon, who wants to try and move the group along to unwittingly fight against the god machine, while also working really hard to keep them alive to the end. Basically, a guardian demon. The fact he is a demon is unknown to the rest of the group at the start.

So, yeah, it seems like a lot, and, if you guys have any ideas, I'm all ears, and, if you have questions, ask away, and I'll answer to the best of my ability. Hope to hear from you guys soon!

This begs a question.

How angry would the gods be if a wizard managed to become Luna, Helio & Gaia all at once?

A triple-god wizard would irk them, me thinks.

>>53431343
Well given that that's pretty impossible outside of a white room, who's to say?

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>Reading Time of Thin Blood vampire supplement
>Get to the very end
>Find advertisement for "Black Dog's first Erotic Novella"
>Immediately begin to raff
>Read on
>"Some of this stuff is really hard-core"
>Raffing intensifies
>The preview page just talks about this woman getting the shit beat out of her
>Continue losing my shit as I search for more information on this online
>mfw it's real

Stupendous!

>>53431339
Have you run mixed parties before? How do you think this one will turn out? Do you think disparate power levels will be a problem?

>>53431343
What's to stop the Spirit Archmage from acquiring a rank 8 Influence countering all other Influences?

Would he/she be the ultimate god slayer not seen since Atlantis?

>>53431378
You gotta be more creative than that. Even without influences gods of high rank still roll 30+ dice with 5+ automatic success for basically every roll. They don't need influences to punch through your ribcage.

>>53431419
I don't think that is going to matter, to be honest.

>>53431419
>use spirit 9
>enchant presence / voice
>no gods can attack you
>all gods MUST obey you

Done.

>>53429754
Think you'd share when you get it?

>>53431471
Again, you need to be more creative. Couldn't say, a god of air hold all the oxygen around him perfectly still and thus make himself incapable of hearing you and rendering your voice useless?

You guys are forgetting that using 2e mechanics Archmasters are also going to be getting Exceptional Successes.

Good luck Luna.

>>53431501
gr8 b8 m8

>>53431492
Don't make me switch out 'voice' for 'intention'

Mages are NERDS

>>53431555
I'm pretty sure if you could make people automatically follow your intentions then the exarchs would have already stripped all of reality of free will.

>>53431360
>>The preview page just talks about this woman getting the shit beat out of her
Source?

>>53431594
The Exarchs also don't desire the loss of free will, otherwise their idea of tyranny would be completely different from what has been already published.

Still no news of any kind on trinity?

>>53431594
Why would the Exarchs risk the Pax by doing that, exactly? They could do It, but it would ruin their oppression.

Luna could make one half of the world (the side she's facing) go mad and insane, but will she? No. Because she will get stormed.

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Question about Vampire - can there be Prince and Archbishop (and Baron) of the same city at the same time, each contesting part of the domain or will there be only one of the authorities depending on which faction has major influence?
And what is the smallest reasonable size of domain to have a Prince (in present day)? .5 million Kine?

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>>53431608
Sure

>>53431608
Something by Asanagi.

>>53431644
The exarchs don't give a fresh shit about the pax, they're ascended, no one can do anything to them.

>>53431644
I really don't think the exarchs are bound by the pax. If anything they're the true power enforcing it.

I used to think that the gods described in Imperial Mysteries were somewhat tougher than the Archmasters wherein, so as to make good antagonists / plot characters.

After reading the above theoretic wankery it seems that the Arcana are too easily abusable and broad for that to be the case after a certain point has been reached, ie Transfiguration.

I would be annoyed if not for the thematically appropriateness of the book.

>>53429626
>>53429513
Gotcha, any other tips on running it?

>>53431657
Yes. You actually have a very similar situation in Bloodlines, except with multiple Barons plus Nines and that Andrei might not have been a bishop but a Priscus or a Black Hand Dominion. There's no set size for a city to have a Prince, as far as I know. All you have to do is claim a domain and have the Camarilla acknowledge it.

>>53431743
There's a canon example of a rank 8 god being subdued during the height of Atlantis.

The Mother of Fire.
She's currently a lawyer in Berlin. A lot of good plot potential there.

Cruel cruel wizards.

>>53431743
Kinda sorta. I mean, if you have the right arcanum and right quintessence sure, you can beat them. But that's the problem, you have to spend however many months/years gathering that quintessence depending on how powerful the spell is. Meanwhile spirits can do all that whenever they want, and also even their regular actions are buffed. Any rank 6 spirit could just karate chop a mage right in half if the poor soul hasn't gone on the requisite quest for the right spell, let alone actually fucking around with spirits like that means other archmages are probably going to kill you and then un do everything.

>>53431657
I recall a few books mentioning cities in a state of civil war between Camarilla, Sabbat, and I think Anarchs as well. Definitely seems possible to me.


Seeing as Camarilla cities usually try to keep their numbers under tight control, I imagine a city with only 500,000 people in it would support at least a dozen kindred. That number is probably going to fluctuate if the Sabbat and the Anarchs are also contesting the city, as casualties rise and volunteers from nearby Camarilla domains roll in.

>>53431804
>Cruel cruel wizards
You mean hubris.

>>53431809
I can agree with you up until the Archmaster has successfully acquired the necessities required for Transfiguration.

Spirit just trumps everything a god can do, period. Same goes for the others if you're devious enough.

Mind you, not all gods are spirit related.

>>53431826
Exalted, Aberrant, and even Scion do hubris better than mage does. Fight me fag. My taste > your taste

>>53431850
That's a pretty massive hurdle though. Like seriously, the book straight up calls out gathering the quintessence for transfiguration is as hard for an archmage as threshold seeking is for a regular mage. That and the pax is still going to get upset if someone actually tries fucking around with high rank spirits, let alone the havoc and attention it would cause in the Fallen World.

So i have a mage npc, who is intending to rip uis hometown into a pocket reality. Not counting the playerd stopping him how big should the blowback be?

>>53431809
This is actually why I like Imperial Mysteries as a supplement.
Archmasters have the potential to become bigger fish than even the biggest of fish.

But you must work for it. Gods are set-in-stone while Archmasters have the luxury to increase themselves in status.
Seekers have a spot in each godly rank depending on how powerful they are.

>>53431899
We're not talking about the Pax or the venture to obtain Quintessence here, anon.

We're discussing the capabilities of an Archmaster that HAS obtained Transfiguration and its prerequisites.

>>53431958
>We're not talking about the Pax or the venture to obtain Quintessence here, anon.
I am. I fully admit that yeah, once you have those you can fuck around with spirits all you want. I also find it a pointless white room statement because the number of people who have actually gotten there is probably in the single digits, and you don't get to just ignore the pax.

>>53432001
>the number of people who have actually gotten there is probably in the single digits

There would be a lot more than that if we account for the entirety of history as a whole. There are never more than a hundred Archmasters at a single time.

>Below the Archigenitors and the Iron Seals that represent the Arcana, the Seers of the Throne populate choruses and legions of lesser Exarchs. They speak of 8 million recorded gods, seven legions of Arch-Ascended under every Seal, ruling 77 ochemata and 777 secret masters of the world, and even universes within each Exarch’s soul, huge enough to spawn infinite avatars


Ascended Archmages seem to outnumber non-ascendants by a good amount. Scarier still that they can effectively manifest infinite Ochemata on a whim.

>>53432041
>There would be a lot more than that if we account for the entirety of history as a whole.
No, not really. I mean it's not like the setting for imperial mysteries is super rigorously defined or anything, but we can put it together decently enough. For one out of the archmages listed in the book, only two of them have an arcana at 9, and one of those is ascended. The book also lists gathering the quintessence to cast it as difficult as gain as the imperial mysteries. And on top of all that, it's basically universally a huge violation of the pax, getting all sorts of archmages, gods, aeons and so on wanting you dead. Its easier and safer to do anything you do with it with an imperium rite instead.
Maybe a number of people prior to the fall of atlantis did, but in the time since then and now I doubt Transfiguration of any kind has been cast more than 20 times, let alone spirit transfiguration specifically.

>>53431368
this is going to be my first CofD game, and I have told the guys some characters are sometimes stronger or weaker than other splats, and they said they are more down for roleplaying than caring about power disparage. All in all, it should be fun!

>>53432146
>but in the time since then and now I doubt Transfiguration of any kind has been cast more than 20 times, let alone spirit transfiguration specifically.

I highly doubt that, sorry.

>>53432212
Quintessence isn't used up depending on what it is. The same Archmaster could have casted Transfiguration 20 times for all you know.

Just food for thought.

I feel like asking this might be a bit idea, but since I'm curious, why do so many people here seem to dislike M20? I've seen a few vague opinions about it, but no concrete and specific criticisms/discussions about it. Is it just because of the perceived political leaning, or did munchkins get their panties in a twist over the description of the lawn chair rote, or is it something deeper?

In addition, if you have any other problems with the content of 20th Anniversary Editions that aren't related to Mage, feel free to voice them as well. This probably sounds really smarmy, but I'm not looking to tear your face off because you didn't like them, I'm just genuinely interested in knowing what's wrong with them and what you'd change about them.

>>53432212
Hey like I said, it's not like we're going to get any hard numbers on this, not canon ones at least.
I just read the books and assume what seems most reasonable.

>>53432209
I suppose power disparity is mostly evident if there's a lot of combat. Hope it works out for ya, buddy

>>53432231 meant for >>53432146

Apologies

Say I have two soul stones and a dedicated magical tool. I use all three in the casting of a spell. Does that mean there is a -6 to the paradox dice pool?

>>53432231
>>53432272
It isn't some times and is for others. Even if we were to assume some perfectly even split, half the time used up half the time it's not, that doesn't change the other factors. Most mages just aren't up to the task of gathering the quintessence in the first place, and it's so risky most won't bother since they can do whatever it is with either of the other practices or imperium rites.

>>53432240
I've been playing Vampire 20th with some buddies and it's the most fun I've had with a tabletop so far.

There seems to be a HUGE power gap between 8 dots and 9 dots regarding Archmages.

Isn't 10 dots permanent Transfiguration?

>>53432269
There will be some combat, but, the guys are just more excited to play their guys instead of combat

>>53432317
9 dot's is still basically just a plot device. It's the equivalent of saying 'if you complete this epic quest to gather the super special maguffin then you can do the thing'. The book lets you decide if 10 is transfiguration but longer or something else.

>>53432317
The power gap is only a thing if the Archmaster wants it to be.

Not all Seekers are going to cast Transfiguration with the intention of shitting over everything, whether it be gods or the world itself.
Some just want to pursue their actual goals.

>>53432370
>Some just want to pursue their actual goals.

Are you implying that creating your own harem of gods isn't an actual goal?

>>53432369
>9 dot's is still basically just a plot device

It is and it isn't. It really depends on what you want to do with it.

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>>53424648
I once more didn't convert to Eastern Orthodox Christianity. The daily struggle is real.

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Not a fan of player PCs being stronger than Luna

>>53432475
Assuming that this isn't bait looking to start another argument: There's so much baggage surrounding actually using the imperial practices and the setting as a whole, they can only get that strong with ST approval anyway. Or at least in effect.

>>53432475
Then don't use Imperial Mysteries?

>>53432475
I'm not either. And I don't support Mage RAW because of it.

>>53432475
Only high-level Archmages can reliably 1v1 Luna.
I mean, just think of all the possibilities of Spirit 9.
Luna is fucked, really.

You need to ask yourself though. Why does any of this even matter?
You are your own Chronicle.

Hey, speaking of games where the PC's start off weak but end up growing in strength to rival the mightiest of the god's: What are the chances of a scion update on the last of the month?

>>53432504

Dynamics isn't too game breaking, but beyond that...

>>53431339
Don't allow any Mages, they'll quickly have enough power and versatility to trivialize most if not all players.

>>53413365
They're immune. Bexause the Gentry never made a deal with the Divine Fire, fae things don't really react to it.

>>53432290
If you want to use up your 3 yantra slots for a simple -6 Paradox dice without any dice pool modifiers.
Yes.

Just turn one of those Soul Stones into a Desmesne instead.

>>53432677
Interesting. Another question, what places are affected by promethean torments? Beast Lairs? Goblin Markets?

I find myself actually wanting to run a game of Imperial Mysteries, just to see how it'd actually go in practice; using pawns and building a roster of characters that a player can don; pieces on the board of a great game.

>>53431339
Mages won't work well with this. They wouldn't even want to be part of the amalgamated council.

They would probably be wildcards alongside the demon(s).

Feedback requested on my version of the Epic Iron Skin Merit. I want to know if there's a way I can remove the roll for soaking damage while still making it useful with higher Stamina.

Iron Skin (Epic, ••• or •••••)

Prerequisites: Major Supernatural Template, Advanced Iron Skin 2, Stamina 5

Effect: Your character is nigh invincible. For the 3 dot version, you may spend 1 willpower point whenever you are attacked and roll Stamina + Supernatural Tolerance. Each Success negates one point of damage, regardless of its type. Even if the roll fails, your character is considered to have received 1 Success. The maximum amount of damage that may be negated this way is equal to the character's Stamina. For the 5 dot version, no Willpower points are needed. This stacks with other sources of Armor. At the ST's discretion, characters without a Major Supernatural Template may acquire this Merit if they have at least one dot in the Supernatural Resistance Merit (see Hurt Locker, page 78).

Drawback: This Merit does not apply against Banes.

>>53433426
They wouldn't be interested in having seats that govern how the cities are ran on the download?

Since the Sons of Ether have any Technocrats defected? I'd imagine most defectors would join up with the Virtual Adepts and the Sons of Ether.

>>53433107
You might want to give God level scion a look when it finally hits. It's serves much the same structure, beings of incredible power who have reasons to not intervene directly, but with a system and setting that was actually designed to support it from the get go.

>>53433426

Imagine all those mysteries serving themselves up on a fucking silver platter. What kind of Mage could say "no" to that?

Also because i'm a sucker for the old Big Five, he should add sin-eaters to the Amalgamam. Inter-splat cliques are called "Menageries" if it's more than just a +1

>>53433901
Mages love control, but they're more concerned with their lofty obsessions and never linger in the same place for too long.

It would also suck for the Demon acting undercover, as it's an easy thing for a mage to find them out using 2e rules.

>>53434036
That's just it. Mages will only bother to go to travel to Ontario for these select few mysteries, not to govern.
Mages don't even have a government in the traditional sense. More so a mutual coalition.

It would be easier to have these mages as new arrivals.

>>53434039
>It would also suck for the Demon acting undercover, as it's an easy thing for a mage to find them out using 2e rules.

This too.

>>53433959
Yeah, there's been defectors after them, it's just on an individual scale as opposed to whole groups and factions switching sides.

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I dare you to find a better cover.

>>53434039

This ties back into an earlier discussion of how mage-demon partnerships can work. Mage pulls a detected demon aside and says "Psst hey buddy, want a high-paying job in Finance or Tech for your cover? It'll cost you the true name of the Seer of the Throne known as Panaxanamander."

>>53434091

Don't mages gather wherever there is a mystery? What's behind all these supernatural leaders gathering together? And aren't they such interesting mysteries in and of themselves?

>>53434162
>Don't mages gather wherever there is a mystery? What's behind all these supernatural leaders gathering together? And aren't they such interesting mysteries in and of themselves?

If mages want to uncover the inner workings of other Templates, I think they would head to the actual hotspots of said splats.

A gathering of multiple supernaturals would be more of a curiosity than a mystery.

>>53434200

Well that's one way to do it. Another is a chance to actually observe them interacting. But you can never tell what mystery will grab a mage's attention, unless it's the mystery of the supernal urinal deuce.

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>>53434137
>Anarchs...

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>>53434240
>the mystery of the supernal urinal deuce.

A mystery you say?

>>53434261
>t. Cammie

So I once tried to run a Werewolf moot with Get of Fenris where they played an ultra hardcore version of football.

The idea was to cross the football field, which had 3 lines, one made of barbed wire, another which was on fire, and the last was the in zone, with a no holds bar brawl in a one shot drive into the in zone.

There were no rules, except that you couldn't deliberately kill anybody, and my wise ass player decided the best way to make it past the opposing team was to enter into the umbra and bypass the whole obsticle course, which I let him get away with because I was new.

What kind of umbral shadow should I have cast of the football field? Should I have left a lupus or two guarding the umbral football field?

I think I remember this causing an argument or something. I feel bad about that because I didn't want to roll for combat and just wanted to run it free form, but maybe I should have just let him take me by surprise and get away with it.

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>>53434310
>MFW Im a Cammie and the Anarchs are coming to Elysium

Camarilla a best.

>>53434334
I'm thinking maybe rosebushes or vines with some sort of weird hallucinatory effect, like the roses being made of fire or bleeding orchids or something, or vines that move and waver and cling to you like creeping vines.

>>53434039
>>53434091
How easy we talking here?

Hubris.
Hubris everywhere.

Who needs Wisdom?

It never fails to disappoint me with mage how badly people just do not get it. People fall into the same static, familiar patterns, rooting for the technocracy, hooking up with the sons or the VA, terrified of the implications hidden behind the traditions.

People who play Mage never do so in order to challenge their worldview, they only do it to reinforce it.

>>53432475
>Not a fan of player PCs being stronger than Luna

And why is this so wrong? Give me ONE good reason.

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>>53434376
Just you wait till this Tremere anarch comes for your ass.

>>53434489
Edgy people like to play Ascension.

Shame that.
Magic is so much cooler than technology.

Science is a thing for both the Hermetics and the Technocrats.

>>53434535
Technology is real.

>>53425796
Ancient beings revered as gods and hated by demons reincarnate continuously in human bodies to shield themselves from a growing current of metaphysical withering. Except for the ones that get kicked out of their otherworldly home, who have to displace human souls to do that.

Past editions had problems with fae miens making you disbelieve yourself, but now, the Mists cover up for everything and you're always a fae being. Others see it, but it doesn't register to them unless they're enchanted.

Types of beings range from giants to awe-inducing nobility to shapeshifters of various types. However, you also have to deal with somewhat chthonic versions of kiths, who were made by the enemies of your progenitors to eternally fuck with you.

>>53434334
You could have made it so that it was in both the Umbra and physical world simultaneously. Alternately, you could have had two different fields of play planned out.

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>>53434530
>playing anarch
>liking Tremere

>>53434518
Which Mage are we talking about?

there is another wave coming and I'm going to miss this one too.

God damn, if I weren't so exhausted all the time, maybe I could actually run a game or two.

>>53434555
Which is exactly why it's lacking. Magic is fictional and has far more leeway for storytelling.

>>53434535
>Edgy people like to play Ascension
Yet people don't play Euthanatoi

>>53434530
>Tremere anarch
READ
THE
BOOK

>>53434572
Awakening.

Both if you're inclined.

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>>53434561
We like magic missile casting motherfuckers now.

>>53434555
And also not magic. And certainly not magick, majicke, or mmmmajickque.

>>53434530
Isn't that the bloodlines tremere MC?

>>53434593
Read Anarchs Unbound.

>>53434594
>Both if you're inclined

I am not. Masters of the Art is trash.

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Was he talking about the gauntlet?

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>>53434530
>Tremere Anarch

Oh, you're so cute.

>>53434609
Yeah. I love playing that game as a Tremere anarch.

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>>53434631
>Masters of the Art is trash.

How is it trash if it proves Mage supremacy?

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>>53434597
>not playing Camarilla games in the missionary position for the sole purpose of siring sanctioned Childer
Disgusting

>>53434604
Under the rules of the setting, it is.

>>53434655
Ventrue detected

>>53434658
Everything is anything in Ascension

Labels are annoying and pointless

>>53433959
Certainly.
In addition, Traditionalists have also defected to the Traditions.
Some even for moral reasons!

>>53434655

LaCroix can go fuck himself.

Do all supernatural beings have a mortal seeming?

Do vampires instantly burst into flames, or is there a few moments prior to sunset and after dawn when they slip into their seeming?

Does it happen all at once, or does it happen seemingly by coincidence, like spilling gasoline by someones feet while they are smoking a cigarette?

Spontaneous combustion just does not jive with the current world view, I imagine it would be much more subtle than that.

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>>53434671
>>53434658
And this is exactly why no one invites you to parties, Mage.

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>>53434667
MAH BROODMATE

>>53434684
>LaCroix can go fuck himself.

Can I watch?

>>53434714
Assuming WoD...

Vampires are always vampires. Werewolves and werebeasts in general have different forms but are always monsters. Mages insist, as loudly and violently as possible, that they are the most human thing that ever human-ed, and even though this is a lie, they are still always mages. Ghosts are likewise stuck as they are, and changelings are always fae, even if you can't see it.

So, in general, no, it doesn't really work that way.

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Look at these beautiful vampires.
They are superior to Anarch trash and Sabbat scum.

>>53434782
The Nosferatu looks like Ron Perlman

>>53434754
yeah, but it seems really inconsistent. Some legends have vampires exploding into fire in direct sunlight, others say they can't travel over a body of water, they constantly contradict one another.

What makes the WoD mythos any more "real" than any other?

Are you DMing a game in Vegas by any chance?

>>53434850
Was supposed to go to >>53434782

>>53434843
Nothing in WoD is taken one-for-one from real world legends, really. You can't apple to apple compare them, dude.

>>53434850
Nope. I saw that art the other day and grabbed it, it's super nice.

>>53434857
>t. Saulot

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>>53434667
Best clan

>>53434843
there is no real world allegory to VtM, or WtA. If anything they take artistic license with real world legends and push them near the breaking point.

Ivan the Terrible never practiced flesh-sculpting. That chick who bathed in blood wasn't said to have any powers at all.

What is keeping this game from stretching its already tenuous grip on suspension of disbelief alive? It has no roots!

>>53434489

You mistake Contempt for Terror. I'd go Orphan before joining a trash-tier group like the Verbena or Chorus.

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He did nothing wrong.

How thick does the blood have to be before the sun becomes an anathema to you? How thick must it be before a ghoul becomes a vampire?

Are all these supposedly factual distinctions meaningless in the modern world? How can you support a storytelling mythos in a post-modern world?

It seems odd that anything supernatural would be anything other than an isolated incident. After all, anywhere patterns form, there would be a means of proving or disproving their existence.

If you can transform into a wolf once, you should be able to do it again.

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>>53434640
>>53434593
This begs to differ.

>masquerade bloodlines
>has vampires
>has werewolves
>no mages

Shit game

I've spent my whole life trying to "awaken" to a new view of reality, but there is simply nothing to "awaken" to. Who gets to shape reality and decide what is and isn't seems completely arbitrary.

Henry Ford completely reshaped our world. Most people are lucky to reshape their living room. If the only means of becoming 'special' is to have millions of people trapped in static cycle in order to contrast your genius/gift/talent/whatever, then maybe being 'special' isn't a good thing.

>>53435005
It would be hard to portray them in a videogame.

>>53434984
Thanks bro. These faggot mageposters don't know anything beyond Camarilla.

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>>53435005
Oh my fucking God Anon, can you imagine how rampant the shitposting would be if there had been even one Mage-related mission in that game?

Imagine how butthurt the Vampfags would be if you had to run from the Mage.

Imagine the kind of shitstorm that would still be raging if you got to KILL even one Mage.

>>53435040
Oh, I know the Anarchs. I just find them superfluous and awful.

>>53435047
Knowing Troika's humour the mage would probably be some fat D&D player. That would be hilarious.

>>53435070
Lawn chairs would be involved

>>53435013
Sometimes, when I go to the circus, I wonder, "Did that person choose to be an acrobat? Or were they just born into it?"

If being special isn't a choice, then does it really have any inherent value? You didn't earn it. You didn't choose it. You sacrificed nothing. Does that make you special, or just lucky?

What are you favorite cities for a Werewolf game?

>>53435086
I tried my whole life to "awaken" some sort of inherent talent or ability, something that would get me noticed and set me apart from other people. It got me no where.

I put a lot of effort into trying to grow and develop as a person, but honestly, I don't think it has been worth it. I see other people race ahead of me towards something beautiful, and here I am, slogging through the mud, day after day.

Is it any wonder why we choose the so called "nightmare" over reality?

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>>53434843
>What makes the WoD mythos any more "real" than any other?

The fact that it's the official lore of the setting? Do you use the lore, history, and traits of the Eldar from 40K for your elves in D&D? I mean, if you want you can make it so they have seemings or whatever, but if Kindred can just transform into normal human beings at any time completely indistinguishable from your average mortal than that turns the entirety of the setting on its head and trivialises the Masquerade that was literally deemed an important enough part of the game to be included in Vampire's title.

>>53428029
>no societal purpose to homophobia
>What are rediculously high STD rates in thr LGBT community
>What are the rediculously high spousal abuse rates amongst dykes.
>What is the above average number of pedophiles

Nah brah, homosexuality has plenty of reasons to be pushed back against.

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>>53435160
>>>/pol/

>>53435047

I recall getting to kill a mage in one of the Hunter games.

>>53435219
It was a sorcerer

>>53435185
Just /pol/? Anon at >>53435160
should go all the way back to /rus/.

>>53435257
Is there a difference?

>>53435270
Hedge sorcerers use static magic

True wizards use true magick

>>53435270
In practical terms, Mages can pull new shit out of their ass and invent on the fly.
Sorcerers can only use a fixed set of practiced, weaker abilities, with the benefit of them not fucking up like Mage abilities.

>>53435270
Static and dynamic differences

>>53435160

I find it hard to be compelled by an argument made by someone who doesn't know how to spell "ridiculous".

>>53435308
Mortal magicians also have two routes to take for greater magics.

Either be Embraced or somehow Awaken.

>>53428029
>Something doesn't need to have a "purpose" to be oriented against a specific group.
They really do though. I mean even your example falls apart, you think people dislike gay people just for funsies? No, every one of them has some reason, maybe its weird and twisted and based off false judgements but its still absolutely there. They still feel, for one reason or another, that gay people are actively harmful and need to be stopped.

>>53434667
You cannot hide greatness.

>>53435103
Denver, Colorado.

>>53435387
Complaining about homosexuality is like complaining why some apples are green.

Common sense dictates it as a non-issue.

>>53434580
You sound like a boring and uncreative Mage player.

Does the delirium means Werewolves don't have to care about showing themselves?

>>53434967
Proving something doesn't make people believe it any more or less. I don't think you understand the World of Darkness or post-modernism.

>>53435588
Common sense, aka a meaningless term that always refers to the speakers narrow world view that doesn't allow for outside ideas.

>>53436178
No. Common sense is common sense.

>>53436257

>>53436237
Yes, it is in fact an abandonment of looking at data to enforce your own world view, you are correct.

>>53436299
I don't even think you know just what 'data' you speak of, to be honest.