/WMG/ Warmachine and Hordes General

>>53197918

The counter-chargers don't have crit knockdown though.

>>53198178
One does actually.

>>53198082
That model isn't tournament legal. It doesn't use the correct colours.

>>53199158
What?

>>53199200
PP requires players to use official colour schemes and no conversions.

>>53199218
Okay what is this new form of shitposting
Did Games Workshop do something stupid again

>>53199218
effort too low, try again
bait rate 0.5/10

>>53199251
It's not new, he's recycling old material.

>>53199251
It's not a new form of shitposting in the slightest, but you are correct in assuming that the perpetrator is some 40kiddo either feeling bored or neglected.

Any good videos to watch or articles to read for playing Protrctorate well?

I'm getting shit on every game. I have Reznik 1 and Malekus. I'm looking at switching to Severius 2 or another faction all together.

I feel like all my jacks are slow and weak if I don't pick the right buffs with the choir.

>>53200097
Related, does anyone have a list of good Youtube channels for Warmahordes battle reports? Especially ones which aren't wholly focused on super-competitive tournament lists.

>>53200130
In terms of entertaining casual play, there's Guerrilla Miniature Games https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzrPO7KIAtwWPjG4brAwQf1CXFEaMNNNL

They fuck up some rules occasionally and whenever a new book or something releases go through it for 10 minutes before the battlereport starts. Just ignore or fast forward that.

>>53200097
>I feel like all my jacks are slow and weak if I don't pick the right buffs with the choir.

This is kinda how Protectorate works.

They're not about having the stronkest units. They're about buffing up their stuff while denying their enemy's strengths.

>>53200676
I'll check them out, thanks.

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>>53199158
curious is the trapmaker's art.

>>53200130
I personally like Arcane Assist:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCj82452S8n3YCMZYXGy9_OQ

There's also Advanced Maneuvers, which has a tendency to take itself both more seriously and run less strictly competitive lists I have found (ex. Xekaar Rhinodon spam vs Skarre1 30 pre-CID Bane Knights)
https://www.youtube.com/user/Taodark

>Going in for the assassination against Denny1 Ghost Fleet
>Give Mordikaar and Cyclops Raider eyeless sight
>Raider needs 11 on 3d6 to hit, misses
>Void Spirit charges a dude to attempt to teleport behind Denny
>Needs a 7 on 2d6 to hit, misses
>Puppet Master a Ferox
>It jumps behind Denny, need an 8 on 2d6 to hit with the bite, misses
>Puppet Master it
>Misses
>Second initial
>Misses
>Mordikaar is up last
>Essence Blast the Ferox, boost the hit
>Finally fucking hit her
>3d6-1, get 6 damage on her because Denny had 1 focus
>10 boxes left
>Pop a shot at her
>Hit
>Boost damage
>Need 11 on 3d6 to kill
>Fail it
MY FUCKING GOD THE ODDS WERE SO STACKED IN MY FAVOUR JESUS FUCK WHY DID EVERYTHING MISS THAT FUCKING BITCH SHIT STAIN CASTER AND THAT FUCKING BITCH SHIT STAIN BROKEN AS FUCK LIST RRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>53200097
Have you looked at Amon? He turns his jacks into rocketships with Pathfinder, and has Synergy to boot.

>>53201643
>counting on every model in your army for assassination instead of switching to attrition when it starts to go south
>complete lack of understanding of probability for final dice roll

>>53201834
I wasn't counting on every model hitting. 5 things missed, and she survived on like 2-3 boxes. If a single other thing had connected, she was dead. It's not like I was aiming for 11 on 2d6 or something.

Also you haven't played against Ghost Fleet if you think it's possible to play attrition against it. What, should I focus on trying to Revive some Ferox? Meanwhile my opponent can just Crippling Grasp them from anywhere because of arc nodes, then fire a dozen ghost shots at my now 11/15 cavalry. It is quite literally impossible to play an attrition game against Denny1 Ghost Fleet. You either kill Denny, or you lose.

Ever had a Mammoth dropped down to ARM13 and killed by half a dozen small based infantry from 100%? I have.

>>53201643
missing 3 50/50s isn't exactly unlucky tho

>>53201950
Mord's gun damage was 50/50, the Raider's shot was 50/50, the Void Spirit's attack was 50/50, and the Ferox's three attacks were ~40/60. The chance of success was very high. I wouldn't care so much if the Ghost Fleet theme wasn't so fucking retarded on top of Denny1 being possibly the strongest caster in the game.

>>53202004
but that chance isn't high at all?

>>53202004
looks like a coin flip assassination.
you lost the coin flip.

>>53202028
0.5*0.5*0.5*0.6*0.6*0.6 = 2.7% chance to whiff the things I did.

Seriously though when is that theme list getting nerfed?

>>53202097
When little bitches git gud and quit basing their whole plan on long-shot assassinations

>>53202212
My plan wasn't the not-so-long assassination, my plan was to just play a normal game. Unfortunately Denny1 can trade up so hard while playing a RIDICULOUS attrition game that I was forced to try to assassinate. Are you aware that Ghost Fleet is currently stomping tournaments?

>>53201935
Sounds like you should pack some more magic weapons

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>>53201751
Come at me bro!

>>53202097
I don't think that's how probability works, my Skorne brother

>>53202307
I was testing my ADR list and took out an Archidon for a 2nd Soulward as well as a pair of PGMTs. Ghost Fleet just can't be beaten without either 1) ridiculous skewing, or 2) assassination.

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>>53201643
Remember when the theme first came out and everyone said it was shit?

>>53202515
95% of the forum-think knee jerk reactions in this community are hilariously wrong and off-base

>>53201935
>bringing a colossal against Cryx/Denny 1
You're going to have a bad time, regardless of theme. Killing one giant thing trivially via stacking debuffs has always been Cryx's strong suit.

>>53202679
They also never really play the game. I've now played against Denny1 Ghost Fleet 5 times and haven't once felt like I could win without assassination.

>>53202722
>what is scenario?

>>53202809
It's how Ghost Fleet wins if they can't be bothered assassinating.

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>>53198082

wtf i know the guy who painted this model

OP u play in NoVA?

>>53203337
I just took it from the WMH painting FB group. Sorry anon, I'm not the anon you're looking for.

>>53203337
>>53203371
It's really fucking beautiful though, so if you know him, give him the props of a faceless internet nobody.

>>53203371

o kk

was flummoxed 4 un segundo - thought i missed a secret anon in the midsts ov our grewp esp. w/ the Advanced Maneuvers mention above (they play w/ our guys a decent amount of the time)

>>53202722
Skorne, right? Play Hexy1 and just win on attrition

If you want to beat cryx you have to bring shit that kills infantry, Boo fucking hoo.

>>53202809
That's gonna be gone in sr2017 sadly :(

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>>53203489

ghost fleets problem isn't that it swarms the board w/ infantry (it doesn't - it fields 27 models in units and 3-4 high-value solos) but that A. it skews w/ specialized defensive tech on nearly every model (insanely consistent and efficacious recursion with 2-4 regenerating Revenant Crew models every turn including the WAs from 3 units and Incorporeal on every other piece barring Denny and bonejacks) which pigeonholes answer lists and forces out-of-tier options in response, effectively costing opponents 12-15 points of equitable option select in regular circumstances, and B. it leverages consistent damage-output guns which ignore LoS and most defensive tech (Pistol Wraiths, Hellslinger Phantom, Rev. WAs) via pDenny who still reigns supreme as the -4/-4 Swing Queen irrespective of her hobbled control measures w/ the nerf-equalization of Withering.

its stock will only rise in conjunction w/ the wraith engine buffs in CID (although the removal of global blast immunity for Blackbanes/Hellsinger Phantom kinda fucks it over vs. Khador Jaws builds w/ Forgeseer marshaled Destroyers now desu) and Cryx's own theme list diversity will contend w/ Khador's in terms of valuable/viable configurations when the Bane theme/alterations go live.

>>53203899
It's also strange how the Foreseer received lukewarm receptions in time for him to be a vital model for Khador.

Its like Khador Christmas Every Day!

>>53203489
Pretty lucky in that regard.

An Ossyan list that kills warjacks kills infantry just as hard.

I've been playing Rahn into Ghost Fleet recently, though, purely for assassination practice. It's also extremely fun.

>>53204109
well, he does look like santa claus

>>53204145
Is your Rahn list secret tech, or vanilla Forges of War spam?

>>53203899
Its a strong list no doubt but its main stength is noone is teching against it yet. Rfp helps, being able to kill a whole unit really helps, and ranged RFP fucks it over.

>>53204191
I'm playing around with different stuff at the moment. Tried Forges of War, and it's gud, but Rahn really misses his nasty high-damage solos like Narn and the MHAs.

It'll be better when those Shyeel arcanist troops get released, I reckon.

>>53203337
I used to play in NOVA with him all the time. His Ret is gorgeous.

>>53203899
Since objectives get selected after list selection now, blowing the Wraith Engine/Blackbanes off the table will be more consistent if needed.

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I want to capture Elara and take her out for a romantic dinner in Free Llael before walking her home.

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>>53205979
Don't forget to bring flowers and a stab resistant vest!

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>>53200966

How does that work for their Colossal then?

It seems pretty stacked on it's own and I heard it was one of the better ones in Mk II.

I heard there is some images from NQ 72 floating around, anyone have them? I know one is of a Venator, but the other is of a paladin?

>>53206559
Hell, no. The good colossal isn't even on the release schedule yet, two plus years later. The Judicator is total crap now. The loss of the choir buff to hit killed the stupid short flamethrowers, and the Redeemer puts out better firepower for the points. Plus the nicely costed character jacks put out more melee damage for the price. It's just bad.

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So how is Cryx in MK3?

>>53207758
Broken as fuck, according to this guy:
>>53201643

But really it's fine. Cryx is just balanced differently in MK3, discouraging bane spam, but likes it's infantry. People bitch because they can't just faceroll to win with them anymore.

>>53207847

I heard they also toned down all Thrall spam in general.

Always wondered if it was an attempt at making people play the pirate stuff more.

>>53207758
Awesome in theme, bad out of theme.

>>53207758
Broken, but they only have two lists.

>>53207899
>Infernal Machines just got buffed indirectly through buffs to Mechanithralls
>Mechanithrall spam is a legit option now

>bane thralls are getting buffed in CID
>bane theme is just spam as a legit option

Cryx is functionally just built around spam now. You either spam undead pirates, spam banes or spam thralls.

>>53207847
Haha no but seriously, that theme list is grotesquely overpowered in the hands of Denny1.

>>53208482
Maybe its almost like Denny1 is a Grotesquly designed Tumor on the whole faction of Cryx.

She's like the Crusader Equivalent of a Warcaster "No Thrills just do one thing amazingly well" which can be alright with Jacks because your paying points for them anyway, but awful with casters because you either answer or you don't.

>>53208780
What if PP gave her a rule saying she can't channel spells?

>>53208812
I don't know! Give her a redesign or something.

Like at least the Choir can be taken with every Warcaster. You can't take Denny 1 With Every Warcaster! Its the Iron Flesh Problem all over again.

But I prefer this new spam to the old Spam.

Like the Incorporeal models SUCK, but they don't do everything. Ye Olden Bane spam was "You got an answer to stealth? No? Then die". They killed everything and in turn were hard as balls to remove.

The incorporeal models now are annoying ranged killers but they are not jack smashers for instance. Even with Denny Buffs the pirate zombies do that better.

>>53209062
It's not the incorporeal models I care about. The sheer fact that d3+1 models in each unit come back every turn forces me to either have a way to wipe out entire units quickly, or lose the attrition war as Denny debuffs me into the dirt. The only Skorne caster who could possibly deal with the list properly is Hexeris2, who is literal hot garbage right now. Any conventional list in my faction cannot deal with Ghost Fleet.

>>53209113

Quick question: If you had to just kill 1d3 Models every turn would that suddenly turn the tides into reasonableville?

I have a shifty feeling that People just didn't play pirates last edition and after some bloke played Ghost fleet with Denny one time, suddenly he realized how good they were with her.

>>53209230

Our Skorne guy has hated cryx pirates all mk3, for what it's worth.

>>53209454
I feel this is Dennys Fault more than the lists. It's not an OP Theme. It's a shitty obnoxious caster.

Some people point to Sorcha, but she's in a faction with no Arcnodes and it can be shaken, and mainly hurts infantry.

>>53209113
Hexy1 stomps the list. It's likely the most one sided match for ghost fleet in the game.

Morg2 makes the list so sad it's not funny, his feat is a huge problem for infantry lists.

Any caster who can run the hydra well can delete entire units from the table with all those attacks and sprays.

Hexy2 is simply off meta, and the fact that he plays well into a big bad tier list(as well as into more conventional cryx as well) means he's got a pretty good purpose.

>>53209708
Hah I forgot Hexxy even had a feat. Doesn't negate that Skorne's best casters into it are some of our worst offerings for everything else.

Non-character Dire Troll with reach when

>>53211066
When the sun goes supernova, then collapses into itself and forms a black hole sucking the solar system into it

>>53207006
I just have to puke seeing Cygnar palyers flaunting around with their op Stormwalls. I wish the Judicator had some cool shit but its reasonable ability has changed to future sight.

>>53211631
I really hope the Judicator goes under CID someday. It's a cool model but the Revelator is just better.

>>53211066
>Non-character dire troll that costs less than 15 when
>Non-character dire troll that has 17 P+S when
>Non-character dire troll with arm 19 when

>>53209708
Morg 3 would also be an effective option. Blind makes key units real sad and you can just feat and go for denny herself, if you feel the need.

Do people complaining about Revenants realize that if you RFP the Quartermaster, the unit can't replenish anymore?

>>53212752
Yes, because RFP is a common ability to have across all faction and definitely worth teching for.

Warmachine is quite simple, really. You just need to come up with a list pairing that can handle Harkevich and Amon's Jackskew, doesn't get mowed down by Winter Guard Rocketeers, isn't spell-assassinated on turn 2 by Rahn, can in some way midigate Wurmwoods feat, have a way to remove buffs from Stormlances and prevent recursion shenanigans.

Oh and you somehow have to find a way to beat Convergence, who are secretly the best faction in the game, but nobody knows why or how, except for the three people playing them.

>>53211904
Trolls aren't about heavy beasts. Use their deadly light beasts and ranged infantry!

>>53212932
Tbh axer and bouncer are golden standard for lights. Elementals are beyond hope for ever being good though. Impaler needs a revamp to be purely ranged, like losing set defence but gaining powerful attack and rof2. If that is too much he could lose crit slam for that as well.

>>53213341
Swapping the crit effect for Powerful Attack and going down to 9 points would be dez.

>>53213341
I suppose the real issue is that no matter how good the troll's lights are, at the end of the day they are still lights.
>Elementals are beyond hope for ever being good though
If you give the Slag Troll back it's old animus and give the Pyre Troll the ability to cast it's animus on others again, they'll start seeing play.

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On that note, why is the Impaler so expensive?
It's one of the most expensive non character lights in the game, and for the life of me I don't understand why.
Maybe there was some synergy they used during testing that we still don't know about?

>>53215625
It's combined arms, so it pays that tax. It has a boostable gun with a crit effect and it's a warbeast so it ignores a whole host of effects that a warjack would get wrecked by, like crippled systems for instance. It fits a similar role as the Charger but pays a bit more for being both more flexible and having the ability to buff the damage on its gun with simple strength buffs. I could see it being rof2 or even reload[1] though easy.

>>53215720
You are forgetting that it needs to boost attack to hit a heavy and boost damage to kill a solo. It can't cripple one system of a light jack with that tootpick even when fully boosted.

>>53215625
Because Ragnor has 30 warbeast points and battleboxes must be 0 points

I'm considering starting Skorne now that they aren't outright unplayable, and I really like the model for Zaadesh2. The only problem is I can't really figure out for the life of me how to build a list around him.

Is Zaadesh just crap? Or is that Skorne in general are still crap?

>>53216794
Zaadesh2 is one of Skorne's most competitive casters.

>>53216794
>Titan Sentries having Defensive Strike, Retaliatory Strike, and Countercharge simultaneously
>all at MAT8 P+S18
>crap

Zaadesh is a pretty great warlock. He's practically impossible to shoot off the board and has one of the game's few defensive feats that can't be easily countered.

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>>53216794
>>53216875
>>53216953
>it's a "/tg Is Bad at Warmahordes" episode

>>53199251
>>53199277
Tbf, "no conversions" is a rule in Steamroller as you may not convert any model in a way that uses any IP that isn't explicitly owned by PP which does indeed include your own. No one would enforce that, but it's there.

Is Chain Attack worth going premium for?

I'm really curious about their new Fyanna2 episode, but not $20 curious just for it.

Who else haunts warmachine related forums to read about models and fluff but hasn't played in years and probably won't ever play again?

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>>53218867
Not me, friend.

>>53218867
I've followed the game since Hordes MKI, have never played a single game.

>>53218867

I haven't played in a while due to not having a car at the moment, but I'm still watching threads and painting up my Legion.

>>53218421
lol no

They have always and pretty much always will just regurgitate shit the community has come up with somewhere else.

>>53217708
>Zaadesh
>Bad
Woo boy. You know how I can tell you're a scrub?

>>53217767
There's nothing stopping you from converting models outside of this. People on the internet just really fucking anal about any conversion for whatever reason

The online community is autistic. Who'd have thought?

>>53217708
(you)

So is SR 2017 cid over? Where can I find the final version?

>>53198082

Is the Helios there meant to be a support piece?

And is it meant to go toe to toe with other Colossals for that matter? Seems like the second round of Colossals were made to support an army rather than do all of the heavy hitting in it.

>RAT5 unit with a flare shot but no CRA to land it
Slingers LMAO

>>53222846
Helios is support and hits quite hard. It also can get to DEF17 vs ranged attacks with some casters and is hard to kill in melee.

>>53222966
>>53221224

At least their not the Victor. I find myself back and forth on that thing.

>>53223659
At least the Victor has an AOE to help.

So how do I break the habit of going too beast heavy with Skorne?

>>53225336
Mak2 kitkats or Mak1 swordsmans

>>53225845
Kitkats?

>>53226039
ferox. try this, change up the beasts to taste

Makeda 2 [+27]
- Despoiler [19]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]

>>53226039
Praetorian Ferox.

Is Band of Heroes any good?
Max Fennblades+UA+Fell Caller under BoH sounds like a good combo to remove recursion/tough infantry.

>>53226116
>>53226123
I do love me some kitty riders...

>>53226198
Tbh Band of Heroes feels like it was more geared to give Trolls a Family Reunion/MMM list. If you aren't spamming the multi wound options, you're really cutting down on the free points, which is really the main draw to themes at the moment.

I mean, a single unit could work fine, but I'd hesitate to take more than that.

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Post what you're working on /wmg/

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>>53227187

>>53227187
I'm trying to come up with some lists before I finalize my purchases for the next little while.

>>53227187
I've got a pile of boxes and blisters to start going through and cleaning.

>>53226116
>Wasting a beast point
RRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I just realised that if 2 Ferox jumped on a heavy, I can combine bites with spears for PS14+3d6 twice. I was thinking I had to combine bites with bites and spears with spears. This is so much better.

>>53206106
>stab resistant vest

I believe we call that 'warcaster armour' around these parts.

If Vlad can wear it to his wedding, anon can wear it on a date.

>>53229604
Vlad sleeps with pajamashoulderpads.

>>53221224
It's over and the final document will be released after lock n load

>>53225336

Play Zaal2.

>>53228586
I agree, the Krea should be one poiint more expensive, but ce la vie.

>>53228611
Huh, you're right. Neat.

>>53205979
Now I want a comic about Elara's increasingly convoluted attempts to kill the same human sorcerer, who captures and frees her each time.

>>53232322
It gets better. Apparently you can't combine a charge and a non-charge to buff the damage on the charge, but because Ferox don't charge, they're the only cavalry that can get around the rule, and it's possibly the very reason they have CMA.

>>53233409
They had CMA before this, it's just a rule they kept.

>>53233486
Yeah but this shit is a revelation to me.

>>53233409
Yeah, the charge attack thing is because in MKI, there's was a thing called 'Waterfalling', which was using combined attacks with multiple weapons in such a way.

>>53225336
Well you could try playing:
>Mordikaar
>Makeda1
>Makeda2
>Makeda3
>Zaal1
>Zaal2
>Xerxis1
>Morghoul2
>Morghoul3

Skorne is only really a half heavy spam faction.

>>53229604
>>53229792
>tfw we will never see a Warmachine video game with Vlad's pauldrons awkwardly clipping into his arms and face during every single animation

Why even play this game?

>>53198082
What do I buy to get into this?
Is the starter 2 player set worth the investment for Warmachine?

>>53235207
Depends. 2 Player sets and Battleboxes tend to be financially worth it, but not necessarily great in terms of what models are gonna be used after.

>>53235234
Has anyone made a list of all the battleboxes and what's useful/not useful in them?

>>53235279
I can do it quickly:

Cryx
>Agathia - not best Caster, not worse
>Slayer - rarely used outside of spam
>Deathripper - always gonna be useful
>Reaper - not commonly used

Cygnar
>Maddox - not worst, but not greatest
>Lancer - cheapo arc node
>Iron Clad - average
>Firefly - not amazing but in Elec based lists will be a big asset

Khador
>Kozlov - decent caster, overshadowed in some aspects but introduces to faction well
>Juggernaut - often used in jack spam or as a cheap beater
>Decimator - only real thing in box not necessarily popular

Menoth
>Malekus - kind of one sided, not among their best
>Repenter - doesn't see as much use as it used to
>Revenger - cheapo arc node
>Castigator - haven't seen one used lately

Retribution
>Helynna - not necessarily a great introduction to how the faction plays but a good warcaster
>Chimera - cheapo arc node
>Griffon - one of the best lights in the game
>Manticore - not bad, but usually more seen in Jack spam lists

Two-Player Warmachine
>Cryx is same as the above Cryx element but added Bane Thralls who are currently in the CID to get better
>Cygnar is same as the above Cygnar element but added Stormguard who are trash

>>53235279

Circle
>Tanith - fairly decent warlock, has seen competitive play
>Pureblood - decent
>Gorax - access to primal, overshadowed by Feral's existence
>Argus - I don't really see these too much

Legion
>Kryssa - not the best lock, not the worst
>Nephilim Bolt Thrower - not the best light, not the worst
>Shredders - took a significant hit from Mk2 to Mk3 transfer
>Neraph - common light due to cheapness though not the best

Skorne
>Xekaar - not the worst warlock, not the best, plays a certain type of list
>Gladiator - common staple in almost every Skorne list
>Cyclops Savage - cheap beater light, not very commonly used
>Cyclops Raider - one or two rules away from being decent

Trollbloods
>Ragnor - good competitive warlock
>suffers from only having 3 lights

Two Player Hordes
>Trollbloods same as above but with Fennblades which aren't that bad a unit
>Skorne same as above but with Praetorian Swordsmen which aren't that bad a unit

>>53235675
Adding on the the trollbloods
>Axer-Useful tech choice due to rush. Not exactly auto-include, but useful
>Bouncer-Decent shield guard (actually kind of scary with rage+pulverizer)
>Impaler-Bad, way too expensive for how little it does

>>53235675
>Implying the Raider isn't fine with Mordikaar/Zaal1

>>53235566
Isn't the firefly THE Journeyman Warcaster jack of choice?

>>53215497
Swamp Troll, while its animus is garbage, was pretty good assassination tech before the power attack changes. Now I have to argue with every person I play with whether or not the throw counts as a power attack against the thrown model or against the thrown model AND the model targeted with the thrown model.

Honestly it's to the point that I've started not liking playing Trolls at all, and I'm moving more to my secondary faction to avoid shit like this.

>>53212902
honestly, as one someone who's been playing convergence for a few months as my intro faction I have no idea why they're so strong. The TEP and the PA come to mind immediately since they're just really well-designed, but I think the reason they're so good is because they're just, well, GOOD. All their 'jacks have a specific reason to exist, and each of them does it well. All their casters have specific things that work really well, and each of them does that REALLY WELL. As soon as you figure out what 'jacks work well with which caster's abilities, which you only need to do once since there's no new releases, you're set permanently and can just practice until you've got it for good.

>>53236372
Because it was designed mechanics first, Design Later (By a good designer who I believe has since then left).

So much stuff is Designed "Looks Cool" first, "What use would it have" later.

>>53236294
>the throw counts as a power attack against the thrown model or against the thrown model AND the model targeted with the thrown model.
In what situation is this coming up?

>>53236521
Yeah, DC left.

>>53236763
using Swamp Troll to pull in the enemy caster with his tongue attack, then throw them into the rest of your people. Mostly it's just me not paying attention to the direction I'm facing the Swamp Troll, but Dual Attack allows you to make a power attack after making a ranged attack so you CAN do it, it's just whether or not you can target one of your own guys as a pass-off kind of thing or if throwing to an ally is a power attack against them.

>>53235566
What is CID?

>>53238258
Cum inside, daddy.

>>53238258
cumming in duck

>>53238258
cumming in daddy

Played Zaadesh2 in ADR v Thragosh today. Opponent only had 2 heavies because he expected to be able to bring one back, but I had an Aradus Soldier so could remove his beasts from play and basically delete his feat. Cetrati held off 2 units and some Deathstalkers by themselves like champs while a Carnivean failed to kill Tiberion. Next turn I popped feat, splattered the Carnivean who almost got crit smite into my opponent's objective on the killing blow. My opponent tried to kill Tiberion next turn who still had Puppet Master on him, meaning the defensive strike had a decent chance to crit, and it did, smacking Typhon 5" thus destroying his charge and forcing a concession. I only lost a single Cetrati and my Agonizer all game, shit was fucking cash son.

He's since decided to stop using Thragosh because of the amount of RFP he feels people have at the LGS. It's a shame since he has that special Thragosh model where he's painting a Khador jack.

>>53238258
came inside Denny

>>53239108
Like that Trencher

>>53239087
To be fair, you should probably have one list with decent RFP in your pocket, because it's really good denial against a pretty broad swathe of opponents. Also that's what he gets for running Thags beast-light.

https://conflictchamber.com/#b71b_-0a070r9D0s0h0j6GcF0k0b

Trollbloods Army - 63 / 75 points
[Theme] Band of Heroes

!!! Your army must contain at least 98 total points.

(Borka 1) Borka Kegslayer [+28]
- Dire Troll Bomber [19]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Swamp Troll [8]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
Fell Caller Hero [5]
Fennblade Kithkar [4]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (min) [6]
Trollkin Fennblades (max) [15]


thoughts on what I should do with this? this is just models I've got, trying to decide what to add/drop. I'm the guy with the swamp troll in previous posts, I like running it but I'm trying to switch things up and run the BoH theme

>>53240247
You're very beast heavy without a lot to help that specific style of play
Consider some beast support

>>53240320
after looking BoH over I'm considering just waiting on buying stuff until a Northkin list comes out. Northkin seem pretty fun, and if their theme list is half as smashy as BoH I'll be pretty down to buy a whole lot of infantry to swing around with.

I just picked up Kreoss 3, other than vengers what does he like to run?

>>53236372
>>53236521
>>53212902
It certainly helps that in Mk3 where 90% of casters lost the control elements to their feats he kept his, and his only real weakness got covered up by the theme.

Axis might be one of the best casters in the game right now.

>>53235566
>Iron Clad - average

I'd argue this, personally. It's a solid jack for how cheap it is.

>Firefly - not amazing but in Elec based lists will be a big asset

Stop being bad at Warmachine. The Firefly is one of the most common pieces you see in top-end Cygnar lists.

>Manticore - not bad, but usually more seen in Jack spam lists

You can apply the Discordia conversion kit to what comes in the battlebox -- and Discordia is one of the best jacks in the game.

>>53235675

>Pureblood - decent

Very common in the top Circle lists.

>Gorax - access to primal, overshadowed by Feral's existence

Common in the top Circle lists.

>Argus - I don't really see these too much

Common in the top Circle lists.

>Neraph - common light due to cheapness though not the best

These get spammed in a lot of top lists.

>suffers from only having 3 lights

The Troll battlebox itself is bad against other battleboxes, but it's a great start to a Troll army since Ragnor, the Axer, and the Bouncer are all great.


If you want to win against other battleboxes, just take Khador. If you're building an army from scratch, and you play Cygnar, Retribution, Circle, or Trolls, buy your battlebox. Otherwise, meh.

>>53238258
Now that you've gotten the usual 4chan responses, it stands for Community Integrated Development. It's basically public beta testing PP is trying out.

>>53241201
Thanks anon, I'm very new so I didn't know what it was.

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ok.....
so, Privateer Press is a professional company. right?
their latest news is a new faction
>pic related

how did such great "i'd so buy the mini of anger-loli, hell yes!" concept art as seen on the left go to the shitty smug standstill seen on the right???
for fuck sake, does Privateer Press hire real sculptors?

also, i remember the original necronomicon having a whole lot more awesome grimkin that what we see in the vid.
why do i see no trappers or rusalka or hell, pick something!

>>53241265
Trapperkin are in the army, but I think they just ran out of space, and idea for how they'd translate some of them (like the Ferryman) to the tabletop.

>>53241265
You're a few months too late with this bait anon

>>53242153
please.

they sculpted a shitty miniature that had great concept art. this is not bait. this is PP being urine level quality

>>53218896
thats a fancy selfie stick ya got there

how do i not get dead playing the old witch1?

>>53242177
We've known about this since February anon, get with the times

>>53233789
oh god Idrians. NOW I HAVE TO DRINK TO FORGET AGAIN.

>>53240014
>decent RFP
>Skorne
Pick one.

>>53242706
Pop a cloud and prowl in it.

>>53240870
Idrians because everyone likes to run them.
Redeemers are nice with force hammer setting up targets.
Avatar with assail is nice.

What are some good specialists in Skorne for these lists and why?

>(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Archidon [10]
- Archidon [10]
- Cyclops Raider [9]
- Despoiler [19]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]

I'm thinking another Soulward to give myself more eyeless sight and magical, not to mention that they're stupid against heavy warbeasts. Max Handlers would be nice if I need more souls as the 2 bodies is 2 points. Master Tormentors feel like an obvious choice. A Cyclops Shaman could be cute as I already have a Raider for Snipe on Mordikaar.

>(Zaadesh 2) Lord Tyrant Zaadesh [+28]
- Agonizer [6]
- Aradus Soldier [16]
- Tiberion [22]
- Titan Gladiator [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [18]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]

Obviously Vorkesh is great, as is a Krea since I'll likely never need a Krea and Agonizer in the same list. Perhaps a min unit of Handlers for 2 free points to bring a Feralgeist to contest if my opponent has no magical weapons.

Halp pls, what are the weaknesses of the original lists that can be covered by specialists?

>>53242706
Dont play old witch.
Ever.

>>53245229
>Hexy1
>Not some of the easiest RFP in the game

>>53249829

Simple, but not easy.

You've got one turn. Either you get it done on feat-turn, or it doesn't get done. But at least Hexeris1 is good for something other than his feat turn now, so there's still a game there if he isn't dropped into that specific match or if the feat turn doesn't come off because of the bastard across the table that is trying to make you lose the game.

>>53251832
If you can't make a Hexy1 feat work against Ghost Fleet, I dunno what to say to you.

>>53252069

I don't think you quite got what I meant.

>>53252231
I absolutely got what you meant.

Hexy is a ranged caster who has access to quite a few pretty god damn accurate models with quite a few attacks. If you somehow can't make the output on his feat turn, I really don't understand how the issue is with him and not you.

>>53249829
Hexxy1 works against warriors, the Soldier works against beasts. That is nowhere near ideal.

>>53252635
The lists you need heavy recursion against are warrior based.

>>53252598

You have no idea what I meant. You don't know Hexy1 from the hole in your ass you are talking out of.

>>53252894
It's pretty easy to just claim that the other person doesn't know what they're talking about without explaining why you think that, huh?

You suggested that Hexy1 has problems closing the game on feat turn against lists that the feat matters, I pointed out why this shouldn't be a problem. So counter point, asshole.

>>53252994

No, I said that Hexeris 1's RFP was simple but that that wasn't the same thing as easy. And that it's a single event thing and shit can happen, particularly for something that singular and telegraphed. And not to worry anyway because Hexeris 1 has more things going for him than his feat turn (and RFP) now.

You got it into your head that I said Hexeris 1's RFP was *unreliable* and kept spouting off on that misconception, and then said he was a ranged warlock. (He's a warlock that can leverage ranged options, supported from the backfield. And melee options, supported from the backfield. Or he can mix things up on the frontlines if there are enemy warbeasts to reave fury from to bloat his camp. Hexeris1 can do a lot.)

>>53240999
>You can apply the Discordia conversion kit to what comes in the battlebox -- and Discordia is one of the best jacks in the game.

Manticores aren't really bad either by themselves.

Under certain casters they can chuck out a grotesque amount of damage. We're talking four to five POW22-24 attacks.

Has the latest production run of the older plastic kits gotten any better?
I'm considering getting the 2017 CoC box but if the quality is the same then probably not.

Grotscon Iron Guantlet MK 3 2017 April 30, 2017

4th: Brian Sinn Mercenaries

(Magnus 1) Magnus the Traitor [+30]
- Buccaneer [6]
- Bucc aneer [6]
- Buccaneer [6]
- Buccaneer [6]
- Buccaneer [6]
- Buc caneer [ 6]
- Buccan eer [6]
- Buccaneer [6]
- Buccaneer [6]
- Bucc aneer [6]
- Nomad [11]
- Nomad [11]
- Nomad [11]
Gobber Tinker [2]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]
Kayazy Eliminators [5]

I am so happy that this is real. So unbelievably happy.

>"Error: Our system thinks your post is spam."
lmao

>>53258311
buccaneer brigade is actually good

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So how are these on the table?

Also, how much of a threat are Sea Kings to Cryxian fleets?

>>53259432
For how many points you pay for it, pretty bad.

>>53259432
Its only really notable for 17" threat.
Animus isn't too bad its just on a model too expensive.

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>>53259432
> They painted it blue and not green.

Weird...

In answer to your question; you are paying 42 points for a 4", P+S 20 attack, which is honestly not worth it.

So many things in Trollbloods need to be redone its not even funny. Look at the MASSIVE buffs the War Wagon has recieved recently. Lower cost, more health, inherent RAT bonus, better melee capability and not only is it not broken, but it will probably still not even see too many lists too often (not that it's bad, it just isn't AMAZING).

This perfectly illustrates PP's relations to Trolls. They either don't pay attention/don't care and just pump out crap, or they are deathly afraid of Trollblood synergy and buffs and give stats/abilities to their models that are WAY lower than they should be.

Just started playing 40K, but I've heard people talking about WarmaHordes at the FLGS. Don't know much about it. Can someone give an introductory rundown?

>>53261265
>Can someone give an introductory rundown?
It's alright.

Monsters fight robuts. Magic. Pew pew, bang bang.

The perpetual open-playtest model they have going is actually working out alright so far.

>>53261316
What are the different factions?

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>>53261327
WARMACHINE

Cygnar
Noble-knight dudes. Emphasis on electrical damage, magic and shooting.

Khador
HIGHLY questionable morality for the Motherland. Emphasis on heavy armor, powerful melee and ice magic.

Protectorate of Menoth
BURN THE INFIDELS! Emphasis on teamwork buffs, fire magic and inaccurate (but concentrated) ranged missels.

Cryx
Undead pirates and necromancers. Emphasis on acid attacks, numerous light infantry that can be brought back from the dead and de-buffing your opponent's models.

Retribution of Scyrah
I-pod crusader elves. Emphasis on moving enemy models around the battle ground, above average stats/abilities with fewer buffs to go around, and force fields.

Mercenaries
Blood and coin boyos. Not a cohesive faction, split into various sub-factions that will work for the other "main" factions listed above. Do not recommend these guys as a starter army.

>>53261327
Warmachine: Wizards controlling robots with magical brains lead armies of their factions.

Cygnar: Posterboy Americans. Technologically advanced (loots of lightning, magical buffs, etc). They are south of the map and usually have to defend against attacks, but there's also a bad angle to them (political infighting specifically).

Khador: Soviet Russia with some characteristics of WW1 germany. They are technologically behind Cygnar, but have a shit ton of ressources (coal, steal, human lives, etc) and focus on building the biggest and heaviest robots and gear. Fairly united politically, but lots of their top dogs are either genocidal assholes, greedy conquerors or both. Their long goal is to conquer the world.

Cryx: A big dragon hiding in some Island noticed that dead bodies rise in his intermediate area of stench. Those zombies are now cryx. They primarily fight against Cygnar and each other and their goal is to take the world by turning everyone into zombies for their dragon master. On the battlefield, they focus of fragile but hard hitting troops, cannonfodder and debuff magic.

Protectorate of Menoth: A bunch of religious fanatics who want to convert all humans to their human god or kill all nonbelievers. On the table, they focus on buffing their own troops, burning things with fire and shitting on the opponents magic.

Retribution of Scyrah: tl;dr the elves of this world invited their gods over for a sick rave, but the bridge to the god plane exploded and the god started dying. Some elf pointed out that the dying rate of their gods coincides with the birth of human wizards, so now a group of Elves called the Retribution tries to call all human wizards to save their gods. On the battlefield, they have really good units and amazing support, but are expensive. It's hard to describe a sole strategy, because all of their casters do different things and want different units.

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>>53261327
HORDES

Trollbloods
Noble-savage scotsmen. Emphasis on teamwork buffs, powerful melee abilities, and durability/regeneration.

Circle of Orboros
Eat your heart and bark at the moon druids. Emphasis on light infantry, earth magic, and fast movement speed.

Skorne
Klingons from desert-Japan. Emphasis on buffing their own models (at a cost of health, sometimes), powerful melee, and manipulating models when they die.

Legion of Everblight
Psychic dragon hive-mind people. Emphasis on moving fast, hitting REALLY hard (though they have lower durability as well), and using ice magic.

Minions
The Hordes version of Mercenaries. Unlike Mercenaries, however, there aren't sub-factions in Minions. The Farrow and gatormen can be taken in the same army. Still, also not recommended as a starter army.

>>53261423
>>53261501
>>53261514

Liking Menoth, Mercenaries, and Everblight so far.

>>53261327
>>53261501

Mercenaries: A colorful band of people of all races who either work for the big factions or have their own mini-factions (Ord - a human nation, Seadogs - a bunch of pirates, Rhul - dwarfs basically and Cephalyx - weird science monsters turning people into silent hill monsters). Save for some internal rules, you can mix and match most mercenaries into a merc army.

Convergence of Cyriss: A bunch of people who turned themselves into robots with souls, trying to bring their machine goddess to the continent. I honestly have no idea what they do, but they have a broken game mechanic and the best colossal.

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>>53261327
LIMITED RELEASE FACTIONS

The following factions do not recieve updates/additions to their armeis as often as the other factions do. Something to be aware of if you start collecting them.

WARMACHINE
Convergence of Cyriss
Transhuman robut genocidal math people. Emphasis on teamwork buffs, warjacks, and switching their abilities on the fly to meet various situations.

HORDES
Grymkin: The Wicked Harvest
Folk-lore nightmares from Malifaux-worl- I mean, hell.... they're from hell. Emphasis on teamwork buffs, various variable abilities called Arcana that other factions don't have, and being spooky.

>>53261565
>>53261574
Add Cyriss to that list. They look amazing, and I like buffs, adaptability, zealous factions, transhumanist/cyberpunk characters, and math.

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>>53261633
>Add Cyriss to that list.
>Cyriss is in the list he quoted.

>>53261641
I meant to the list of things I liked. Forgot to quote my post. >>53261558

>>53261327
>>53261501
>>53261565

Hordes: Druids, Shamans and Wizards controlling beefy beasts instead of robots. Their mechanics work different, but both games can play with each other.

Trollbloods: The good guys of the setting, they're just trying to find a place to live but everyone kicks them out of their borders, so they have to get violent. Big beefy infantry and monsters, also buffs.

Skorne: A weird conqueror kingdom from the south, trying to take over the world. They are huge assholes (torture, sacrifice, browing sadism hentai, etc). On the battlefield, they have hard hitters and ways to make them hit even harders, also some debuffs.

Circle obobobo: Druids an' shit. They try to keep the world in balance, meaning neither the Wurm (a god who hates humans and loves animals) nor Menoth (the god who loves humans and hates animals) can ever be more powerful than the other. On the table, they are hard to catch and maneuver around a lot, in addition to hitting like trucks. However, they are quite frail once you get your hands on them. (unless you're playing with the Stone golems, which are more like Khador)

Legion of Everblight: The Cryx dragon has a lot of sons and Everblight is one of them. He wants to use his goo to mindcontrol everyone to kill his dad. On the table, they are hard hitting, fast and tricky, but expensive and not too hard to kill.

Minions: Mercenaries for Hordes. Their sub-factions are the Gatormen (Crocodile people with vodoo magic, lots of buffs, debuffs and durable hitters) and the Farrow (pig people, not actually sure what they do. They are quite goofy and use tactics and weapons they stole from other factions)

>>53261633
Check'em http://battlecollege.org/index.php/Convergence_of_Cyriss

>>53261727
Interesting. I also read up on Protectorate of Menoth. I like them a lot too. Deus vult, fire, and all that. Which would be better to look into starting with?

>>53261793
Khador is also very self-explanatory. Generally, not about wonkiness or ultra combos, but about reliability and every single part of their kit can do allot of work on their own.

They are actually much more a "Good (Not BEST but GOOD) at all things master of none" faction.

>>53261793
Menoth has a deeper pool of models, but arguably everything but Perforators work well in CoC. Currently they basically do TEPs, Vectors, and support pieces as lists since they have a very strong theme force (an alternative army type that gives benefits at the cost of limiting model selection for said army).

>>53261961
>>53262521

Alright. I'm leaning mostly towards Menoth, at least to start. What all is needed for starting the game?

>>53262788
First, a playgroup. After that, the journeyman Protectorate battlebox isn't a bad place to start. It comes with two lights that aren't bad and a heavy that isn't the best but isn't the worst. Malakus, the caster in the box, really loves fire. He also has a great character jack (basically a uniquely personalized buddy robot) called Eye of Truth, which is amazing.

>>53262945
What's the highest fire/dollar ratio?

>>53263000
Utility or fire effects?

>>53263056
Fire effects. Utility is always nice, though.

>>53263202
Well Start off with the Choir. The Very core of Menoth, they are a unit that follows around your jacks and bless them with obnoxious as all hell songs.

Either making them hit much harder, or Gain a level of Immunity to spells or Ranged attacks.

No fire.

If you want Fire, there are the Cleansers. Malakus is a "Warcaster Cleanser" in a way.

>>53259432
Well that depends on the ship. If the crew is just dry bones, then there isn't much there for the king to eat. But if the crew is flesh, then that's a different story. In any case though, I suspect a Sea King would only take down one or two ships before being satisfied, and Cryx has hundreds if not thousands of vessels.

>>53263310
Well in it's art it's displayed being a serious threat to a Kraken Colossal.

That in itself is a massive threat since Kraken where one of the ways Cryx Fleets Kept out Invaders.

Even if they have many ships, a Submersible Creature is an even bigger threat, which the Mountain King can counter.

>>53198082
Is that emerald weapon?

>>53263340
I was talking about wild Sea Kings. SK's utilized by trollkin in naval warfare are different beasts entirely. Instead of fighting for food, they'd just be fighting to kill, and the only thing Cryx could bear against them are submersible colossals and jacks, like the crabjacks.

>>53263381
In the fluff they are written to be so dangerous that areas, where they roam, are marked as "Bermudas Triangles".

Fluffwise the colossal's are much more powerful than mechanics wise (Even Scale wise the colossal's are WAY bigger).

The Trollkings are so ravenous they appear to barely ever stop eating ever. And the Sea King has the concept of killing food, for now, to eat it later. Or even eating food for now to eat it later.

>>53263310
>If the crew is just dry bones, then there isn't much there for the king to eat.

You say that, but Trolls'll eat ANYTHING.
Pyre trolls drink bitumen. Slag Trolls eat rocks. Storm Trolls eat fucking LIGHTNING.

A Seaking would probably be entirely willing to munch down on skellington pirates for their tasty, tasty marrow.

>>53263249
Oh wow, Cleansers have some amazing models. Would Cleansers and Choir be better as separate armies, or in the same force?

>>53264097
The Choir is a support unit for your warjacks and not a fighting force itself and you have to take several warjacks, so you'd be hard pressed to justify a list in Protectorate that didn't include at least a minimum unit of Choir. Cleansers are a midline combined arms unit. Choir will appear everywhere, and Cleansers can be good with a few different casters. Malekus happens to be one of them.

>>53261501
>Posterboy Americans.

The Swans talk in stereotypical British dialect though.

>>53261961
They're definitely the master of running tons and tons of warjacks in this edition.

niggers

>>53266467
They're the gung-ho, patriotic good guy faction. They are the Anglosphere And yeah,
British might fit better because the whole setting is magic WW1.

>>53263493
>(Even Scale wise the colossal's are WAY bigger).
No they're not. The original Colossals were like a hundred feet tall and were replaced by warjacks because the Trollkin kept luring them in to narrow valleys and dropping shit on them. Modern Colossals are about 30-40 feet tall, just look at the Conquest art where it's next to people and jacks, the scale is accurate to the model.

>>53267950
Well, at least the Conquest is. The Way its drawn would imply that its way bigger.

>>53267950
>The original Colossals were like a hundred feet tall and were replaced by warjacks because the Trollkin kept luring them in to narrow valleys and dropping shit on them.

Were all early warcasters complete retards or something?

What's your favorite point level to fight at?
I find 30-40 to be a good range. Allows for a good sized battle group, some support, and an infantry unit or two.

>>53268636
Kinda. They also had to work in teams of five or so to control the things.

>>53264097

Protectorate is an excellent place to start; they've probably got the largest list of playable stuff in the game right now and can run a wide range of playstyles.

Anyway, because of the way list creation works (you get 30ish points from your warcaster that can only be spent on jacks in your warcaster's battlegroup), you're going to have multiple jacks (unless you take a single colossal and nothing else, and Protectorate's colossal is... not very good). So you're always going to have jacks, and when you have jacks, you always want at least a minimum sized Choir.

As for jacks, most of our heavy jacks are playable. We don't have a lot of good light jacks, but light jacks in general are kinda underwhelming across the board. That said, the Redeemer is awesome.

Your first jack should probably be a Reckoner, as it can go in basically every list -- it's relatively fast (for a Protectorate jack, at least), hits hard enough with Choir buffs, has 2" reach on its melee weapon, and a gun that debuffs DEF. A Redeemer (or two) is a great addition to it.

As for units, right now Idrians (with their command attachment) are one of the best infantry units in the game, and go in basically every Protectorate list that's not in theme.

Wracks are good (they basically give your caster an extra Focus to spend), and at 1 point each are your standard "I can only fit in one more point in this list" model.

>>53264097
>>53269364

Also, quick list of stuff in Protectorate to avoid:

Light warjacks except Redeemer, Devout, Vigiliant, and Blessing of Vengeance (unless you're building a very specific Amon list).

Deliverer Skyhammers
Exemplar Bastions
Exemplar Cinerators


Stuff to be really wary of as they're not great, but not particularly terrible like some of the other stuff:

Castigator
Temple Flameguard
Holy Zealots
Judicator

>>53269460
Cinerators, really? I'll admit I don't play the faction but with new-Vengeance I thought they were pretty solid.

>>53269460
>saying to avoid Dervishes

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>>53268636
It was more a function of the old colossals being built to shatter Orgoth strongholds, not clear up guerrilla uprisings in swamps and mountains. The Trolls just sort of led them into swamps and harried their legs until they crumbled and sank. Colossals weren't flexible enough for general use, and were too expensive to run/maintain. So the Iron Kingdoms developed smaller, smarter warjacks to better suit contemporary doctrines.

>>53269674
Ironically enough they would probably be the tits at killing Dragons.

>>53269785
That's what the Hyperions are built for.

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>>53269674
There's also these guys. They protect the Morrowan church in Caspia

>>53269909
I wanted them to step down to actually wreck shit during the last battle of the Caspia-Sul war, before Stryker Sue'd it up to defeat the whole Menite army singlehandedly.

How does Skorne beat TEPs.

>>53270248
TEP crumble to any kind of melee threat. Get the Karn up on them, or half a unit of Ferox and the TEP will reveal itself to be made of balsa wood and chewing gum. Don't bother ever shooting at the TEP though, as often it is in the "everything is shield guard/sac pawn" theme list.

>>53270248

Walk up behind Kreas and hit them.

Or extendo-threat things into them and hit them.

God help you if you try shooting it, though.

>>53268636
>>53269674

Early tanks were on the stupid-huge side, well-armed, absolute shit at open-country work, and made Renault FT-17's and Whippets (glorified tracked machine-gun popemobiles) look good to people, anon.

Rolled 4 (1d6)

Tough check!

>>53269460
Castigator is the new crusader. For two points more you can get an autohit pow 14 infantery killer. Flameguard and zealots can be good with the right caster. Most enemies dont see it coming when you kill their caster with knockdown and boosted pow 14 attacks (Malekus says hello). Judicator is sadly shit tough.

...Is there any way to beat Kreoss1 if your faction has no real access to Steady?

I mean, aside from bricking up and making sure that your caster is more than 14" away from him at all times?

>>53274510
19", he can walk and then feat. You can bite it 22" away if you leave a valid charge for him.

If you can't get Steady (and, realistically, since he can just cast Purification before feating, a lot of otherwise useful sources of Steady won't work), you focus on killing his ranged stuff or try to hide from line of sight from it.

Yes, it's actively unpleasant.

>>53270248

morghoul3 blinds them every turn

teps are now paperweights

>>53274669
Kreoss 1 is the stand user betwen the menithes. He is op powerfull but only in his very limited way. If you fight against an army with non spell steady and a cast who is the source of the upkeep hos abilities are nearly useless.

>>53274510
What faction?

>>53274669
God that's so fucking obnoxious. I genuinely do not know how to fuck with this nigga beyond using the one warcaster with Stealth... who I don't own and really don't want to buy.

>>53275616
Ret.

I'm also starting Legion but that's going slower, don't even have my first battlegroup for them painted up yet.

>>53275678
Lys Healer gives a 5" aura of no-knockdown/no-stationary

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>>53267950

I think most stop short of 40.

>>53273975
I'm so sorry Anon :(

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>>53261709

>Skorne: A weird conqueror kingdom from the south

I think it's far east isn't it?

>>53275904
Wow, Ios is actually a lot bigger than I thought it was.

>>53274480
Castigator might become more relevant when infantry starts showing up more, but I haven't made any good experience with it otherwise. I'd rather take one pow 18/20 smacks than 2x 16/18. A focus loaded crusader will wreck something but a castigator might whiff. It just doesn't feel as good

>>53275904
Of course. The fuck was I smoking?

Anyone know what that business about five Humans defying Menoth is about?

I read that the Grymkin Warlocks are all, supposedly, once Humans who angered Menoth in ages past.

>>53276307
When Menoth bestowed his gifts of The Wall, The Flame, and The Law, there were five humans that openly refused his gifts and cursed his name. Menoth, the dick he is, told them to get the fuck out and sent them to the deepest parts of Urcaen. There they sat for however long, and adapted to the hellish landscape. Their nightmares became their warbeasts, and damned souls that wandered too close to them became the twisted monsters that make up the units and solos of the faction. Those units and solos would occasionally cross over back into the living world and were treated as folktale horrors. The Old Witch used her powers to free those five defiers in an attempt to blunt some upcoming catastrophe.

>>53276658

>Their nightmares became their warbeasts, and damned souls that wandered too close to them became the twisted monsters that make up the units and solos of the faction. Those units and solos would occasionally cross over back into the living world and were treated as folktale horrors. The Old Witch used her powers to free those five defiers in an attempt to blunt some upcoming catastrophe.

I wonder what the Protectorate and Circle thinks of that then?

Also, does that mean those five have likely seen the Devourer Worm given it too inhabits the wilds of Urcaen?

>>53276658

>Menoth, the dick he is, told them to get the fuck out and sent them to the deepest parts of Urcaen.

So he took them from Caen and sent them into Urcaen?

>>53276658
I think what angers them especially is that they were not even that evil or anything.

The King of Nothing just wanted to be left alone.
The Wanderer just didn't want walls and wanted to Travel
The Child was just being a petulant kid
The Dreamer just didn't give a fuck and wanted to continue dreaming I suppose
And the Heretic Discovered the Truth that Divine Power comes from within a Human, and not granted by Menoth as suspected.....Which is a pretty massive revelation all things considered, and is the first big reveal when it comes down to magic in the Iron Kingdoms Universe.

For all we know, gods are just clingy Girl/Boyfriends telling their targets "Oh yeah, your nothing without me. Now give me 30 Bucks"

>>53276761

>the Heretic Discovered the Truth that Divine Power comes from within a Human, and not granted by Menoth as suspected

I suppose that explains how Morrow and Thamar ascended together then.

>>53276835
Well if Menoth created humans, then isn't that kind of the same thing?

>>53276761

What kind of God does that to a child?

>>53276897
Skorne confirmed for the superior faction due to complete lack of faggot Gods.

>>53276897
Menoth has always been a Lawful Evil deity.

>>53276761
>And the Heretic Discovered the Truth that Divine Power comes from within a Human

Technically he discovered that as all humans are born from Menoth, they have a spark of the divine in them. Same goes for elves, who are created from the blood of their gods.

Of course it's possible that Menoth was originally just a human or giant, too, and was raised up to godhood by Dhunia. That's what a lot of Dhunians believe, while others assert he was created from nothing by her.

>>53276761
>For all we know, gods are just clingy Girl/Boyfriends telling their targets "Oh yeah, your nothing without me. Now give me 30 Bucks"

Gods give you a home in Urcaen. Why do you think all of Skorne society is basically a scramble to stay on Caen?

>>53276897
The Official excuse is that he is a workaholic.

The idea being that he has to spend all his time fighting The Devourer Wurm so it doesn't eat the world.

For all we know it could have been a Xenoblade situation. Menoth Gave all his power up so his Children would be able to wield and generate more of it. Theoretically making him more and more powerful. And so for him, his power engine rebelling against him would be a serious blow to his power.

Again At best he's a LN God. At BEST.

At least the Humans aren't made like Elves and dependent on the gods for power.

>>53276957
True but they need them to fight their battles for them in a sense. They own the lease but you're paying the rent.

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>>53276923

Their lack of a God also gives them a nice weapon doesn't it?

I've heard Void Spirits are something few enemies want to see and one that messes up anything that lives, warbeasts included.

>>53277019
It does but that's not really comforting for the person who has to live in eternal suffering to become that weapon =P

>>53276980
>Again At best he's a LN God. At BEST.

Isn't he officially lawful neutral?

>>53277019
>Oh boy Mordikaar is gonna be so great, Void Spirits can kill EVERYTHING
>Okay so what faction are you playing today?
>Convergence
God I am sick of this shit.

>>53277002
Only Menoth does that, and he only does that because Dhunia, the Iosan pantheon, the Rhulic fathers, and the Twins never picked a fight with the concept of entropy like he did. On the one hand, it's retarded because you can NEVER win against the Wurm, but on the other hand, Caen might have been eaten by now if not for his intervention.

>>53277036
Yup.

In all honesty the Transition for the game from D&D 3e too Tabletop wargame has been a blessing and a curse.

Its a blessing because it really allowed more balanced fleshed out motives for most of the factions, but also a curse because now everything needs to have an official army.

>>53277061
Regardless, it's a very interesting Mythology.

Depending on who's telling the Truth the end result changes allot.

>>53277041
>tfw buying into the Kodiaks are broken meme
>tfw venting some steam
>tfw playing against Convergence

kill me

>>53277111
I'm convinced that half of the reason why CoC does well is because nobody's fucking rules work on them.

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>>53277041

Do Gremlin Swarms affect Convergence Infantry or Battle Engines in any way given they're both mechanical?

And I ask that as a lore question and a table top question.

>>53277124
They do well because they were designed to be a better-designed faction.

"Shocktroopers suck? Well how about these new shocktroopers are better defensively, and can be repaired by default!"

If it where not for CID soles would have designed the Grimkyn as however the heck he wanted and then we would be sorting through shit or OPness.

>>53277111
Kodiaks are great at 13 Points and would be Goodish Bordering on OK at 14 Points.

They are in no way Overpowered.

>>53277124
No cortexes, no MAT/RAT debuffs, no living models, no Warjacks

At least they still drops souls, I guess?

>>53277131
Well they can mess with any warjack or battle engine (causing some shit to just not make fucking SENSE like messing with Xerxis2 or the Animantarax), but Annoyance only works on living models.

>>53277225
>No cortexes
So what does the I on this grid mean?
>no MAT/RAT debuffs
Wait you mean debuffs don't work on their warjacks because they pull stats from the caster?

>>53277236

>Xerxis2 or the Animantarax

Maybe they dangle food on a string in front of them or something?

Alternatively, maybe they're messing with the howdah on the Animantarax's back or something?

>>53277256
Yes, but things that specifically blow out cortexes, like the Cyngar jack weapons don't effect vectors, because they don't have cortexes.

Correct. You have to debuff the caster if you want to debuff the vectors.

>>53277236
If you cut a rider's saddle straps, he falls off or even goes upside down. And it's especially bad for Xerxis because he may be paraplegic right now.

>>53277293
>Correct. You have to debuff the caster if you want to debuff the vectors.
Wait that sounds like Bullshit

>>53277345
"Interface node - vectors have no native MAT or RAT value; instead, they get it from their casters. This is a double edged sword, since individual vectors can't have their MAT or RAT reduced, however if the caster does, all vectors do as well. They are also immune to effects and spells which require a cortex (Domination, cortex damage, etc.). They may still be disrupted, however."
- Battlecollege, but you can find the same thing in the Prime Rulebook.

>>53276980
>At least the Humans aren't made like Elves and dependent on the gods for power.

Humans and elves are exactly as dependent on their gods as one another for power. Elves can do arcane magic naturally and can do divine magic with the help of their gods. Humans can do arcane magic naturally (well... not naturally, but they don't get it from Menoth) and can do divine magic with the help of their gods.

Both are made from the bodies of their deities and therefore have the divine spark and the capacity for ascension.

>>53276980

Doesn't that mean Morrow and Thamar ascending weakened him?

>>53277492
Yes. Probably.

It's likely that his sudden attentiveness to matters on Caen is a long overdue reaction to Morrow completely cucking the vast majority of humanity away from him.

>>53277526
Morrow is like Menoth except without people threatening to torch you alive in his name. I can see the appeal.

>>53277378
Wow, that's utter fucking BULLSHIT. This is just "Well I don't want my Shiny new faction to have to deal with Consequences so fuck them".

They can be RAISED but not reduced huh?

>>53277442
>Both are made from the bodies of their deities and therefore have the divine spark and the capacity for ascension.
Except their souls appear to be dying.

>>53277526
>It's likely that his sudden attentiveness to matters on Caen is a long overdue reaction to Morrow completely cucking the vast majority of humanity away from him.

Hes the abusive Unnatentive Dad. He leaves his kids to suffer from the Orgoth, but the second his kids get a cooler nicer Foster...Mother or Father?

He freaks out and starts buying weapons.

>>53277526

Yes, but are his followers going about it the right way?

So far, I've seen more often than not that the Protectorate is greeted with frost axe and lighting bolt than the hand of friendship.

In fact, I don't think burning down churches, enslaving people and killing civilians typically endears one to their god.

In fact, I think a quote from the old Protectorate faction book on the Vassals they have chained up and bound has on cursing Menoth or rejecting him outright.

>>53277442
I wonder if Nyssor is hoping Goreshade really does figure out how to get the elves to ascend by themselves. He seemed to think his shitty decisions were still on the right track towards something helpful.

>>53277596
>He leaves his kids to suffer from the Orgoth, but the second his kids get a cooler nicer Foster...Mother or Father?

Morrow and Thamar ascended to godhood before the Orgoth showed up. The Occupation was actually a major reason that so many people turned away from Menoth and started worshipping Morrow. After all, why break your back worshipping an "obey me or else" god who isn't even keeping the blasphemous, black magic wielding tyrants off you when you could be worshipping the "just be cool to each other, guys" god who also promises godhood if you're a good enough person?

>>53277622
>So far, I've seen more often than not that the Protectorate is greeted with frost axe and lighting bolt than the hand of friendship.

Menoth don't give a fuck about "friendship." Menoth says "obey or burn."

>>53277708

Well so far they don't seem to be obeying enmass.

In fact, it seems they're striking back against his commandants and the Old Faith in general if what Stryker did was any indicator.

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>>53277728
That just means you gotta use more wracks.

>>53277596
>Except their souls appear to be dying.

Which is what would happen to mankind, too, if Menoth was dead.

The unique thing with elves is that they used to reincarnate if they hadn't learned enough to enter their heaven, but now nobody is pulling all the levers that allow this to happen. Soulless elves are those that are born but never get their 'old soul.'

>>53277728
There's a lot of bad will towards Menites in Caspia because Sul is constantly trying to start shit. Everywhere north of that, Menites are completely tolerated, but that doesn't mean those people are just going to let themselves be conquered by the Protectorate.

>>53277813

>There's a lot of bad will towards Menites in Caspia because Sul is constantly trying to start shit.

Like firing that giant ballista over Caspia's wall during the events of MK1? I read that caused immense havoc in Caspia.

>>53277807
>Which is what would happen to mankind, too, if Menoth was dead.

Why. You yourself pointed out why it's happening to Elves and not Humans.

>>53277807
>Which is what would happen to mankind, too, if Menoth was dead.

Human and elf souls work differently. Elves have a complicated system of reincarnation directly overseen by the gods.

Humans just live, die, and go to Urcaen where they may or may not get picked up by their patron deity and taken to their realm depending on whether or not they've been a good boy. It needs no divine oversight.

>>53277867
You don't understand. Not all elves reincarnate. That's just a special case for dicks who didn't learn to be cool during their first try.

Elves are losing their lifespans and divine magics because their source, the god they're made from, is gone. Humans have the same relationship with their god as beings made from their blood, the only difference being that humans weren't intentional creations.

They'd be in the same situation if Menoth died. Or maybe not - maybe Morrow is now strong enough to act in Menoth's stead.

It's canon that humans and elves are both the same in that they have the divine spark in them, but the divine spark isn't really any help to anyone unless they cultivate it by seeking enlightenment the way Morrow did. Ironically, it was Menoth's neglect and inhumane teachings that meant there was a need for people like Morrow to appear. The elves have simply never had that need until now, as their gods loved them. Their gods loved them so much, in fact, that even the worst elves who spurned them were given second chances at life.

>>53277944

Has it occurred to you that there's a possibility the soulless are elves that should have received a reincarnated soul but didn't because the gods aren't around to keep that shit running smoothly?

>>53277795
Have Reznik and the Butcher ever met on the field of battle?

Because that sounds friggin radical.

>>53277875
>>53278021

From the Mk2 Ret Forces book.

"Soulless births were thankfully infrequent at first, but they have slowly increased with each passing hecyion. The most likely cause of this phenomenon is the vanishing of the goddess Ayisla. As the Watcher of the Gates and Suzerain of the Fallen, this goddess was responsible for the natural processes of reincarnation and passage into the afterlife. With her gone, it may be that souls slated for reincarnation are incapable of returning from the Veld to Caen. If this is the case, soulless represent empty vessels forever awaiting the arrival of missing pieces of themselves."

>>53278042
Would probably be Bad for Reznik. As cool as Reznik is, the butcher is just fucked up.

>>53277622
>So far, I've seen more often than not that the Protectorate is greeted with frost axe and lighting bolt than the hand of friendship.

They're a theocratic splinter state demanding religious fealty under threat of firey death.

Why would you greet them in friendship?

>>53278021
Yes. I literally stated that.

This isn't what is killing the elves, though. It's just an inconvenience ultimately. Not all elves are reincarnated - there isn't normally a finite number of elves possible that keep reincarnating. The vast majority of elves that die just go to the Veld.

The divine energy responsible for making new people comes from their creator gods in the case of both humans and elves. This means that everyone has a little divine power in them, and they can, by living a life of struggle and learning like Morrow, learn to cultivate and harness it. The elves' main problem is that their source of this energy has been cut off, so their lifespans are becoming shorter and it's plain harder to have kids. The soulless problem is a rare occurrence that just makes things worse.

>>53278080
That's why I like Khador.

They are the least Badguy-ish out of all the badguy factions.

>>53278067

Reznik is Khadoran too isn't he?

>>53278111
The question in all of this is where does Magic Come From?

The Nyss have regular ole Sorcerers. And what power do they use? Is it still divine or......?

>>53278125
Cygnar steals your property by writing your name off in a secret document.

Khador steals it by threatening to hit you with a big axe.

The end result is the same, but Khador's approach is a lot more honest.

>>53278161
Iosan elves have plain old sorcerers too. The ability to do magic this way is just something the elvish gods gave to their children.

I think it's theorized that sorcerers and arcanists draw on their own divine spark rather than getting direct mojo from the gods, but that's not confirmed. Mana is supposedly something that just exists in the world, after all.

>>53278189
Nah Khador is a clear bad guy (I like Khador its my faction).

I just like its moral struggle then I like Cygnars goody two shoes "Oh we have some shitty royalty boo hoo" bullshit.

They have no real moral struggle, and every one of the warcasters represents this. Stryker wen't overload on some Menothians, but Menothians are in a way ticking time bombs for their god who might bless them with a vision of how to murder infidels most efficiently.

>>53278211
Then what makes Scyrah think that Humans learning scorcery makes them bad guys?

Probably desperate hope.

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>>53278189

Khador's also fighting to regain a lot of what was seized from it wasn't it?

From what I've read, the nations of Llael and Ord are former Khadoran lands that were seized from them by the Orgoth and then made into new nations when those dark invaders were driven out.

And is it ever ascertained if Cygnar really sabotaged their Colossal project all those centuries ago?

>>53278255
Desperate hope and awkward timing.

>>53278255
Less Iosan sorcerers are being born, which is one of the points in favour of the 'sorcerers are drawing on their own spark' theory. ALL elves used to be able to do arcane magic, now only a high percentage of them can do it. If sorcerers really are getting their power from their own innate divinity, then it would follow that as elves are getting less of it than they used to, their magical talents would dwindle.

The Retribution think that Thamar stole the Gift from their pantheon simply because Thamar is a patron of thieves and the first human sorcerer appeared shortly after the Rivening, when their priesthood suddenly lost all access to divine magic. Some of this is desperate hope, though it is quite a coincidence.

>>53278266
>From what I've read, the nations of Llael and Ord are former Khadoran lands that were seized from them by the Orgoth and then made into new nations when those dark invaders were driven out.

Basically. Those lands were part of the Khardic Empire. When the Corvis Treaties were drawn up, it was decided to decide boundaries based on the lines the Orgoth had divided everything up into. That created the kingdoms of Ord and Llael out of former Khardic lands and put Caspia as the capital of the largest nation, Cygnar. Needless to say the Khadorans weren't pleased, but they had suffered some of the most severe losses during the Occupation and Rebellion so they were in no position to push the issue.

>And is it ever ascertained if Cygnar really sabotaged their Colossal project all those centuries ago?

No, just a popular conspiracy theory among Khadorans.

>>53278266
>Khador's also fighting to regain a lot of what was seized from it wasn't it?

Not exactly.

1. Those lands belonged to the Khardic Empire, which is distinct from Khador, and hadn't actually existed for around 700 years when the Corvis Treaties were signed. The Khard majority in Khador like to think of themselves as successors to the old empire, but really, it's been gone for a long time.

2. None of those lands actually wanted to be part of the Khardic Empire when it was around. They were seized by the Khards just as the Orgoth seized Immoren. They're about as Khardic as Sul is, and had no interest in returning to being vassals to an empire that hadn't existed for almost a thousand years.

>And is it ever ascertained if Cygnar really sabotaged their Colossal project all those centuries ago?

It hasn't been disproven, but only because no proof has been produced. It's a purely unfounded statement made to make Khadorans feel more justified about being warmongers.