Warmachine/Hordes General /wmh/

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First for Magnus did nothing wrong!

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Aesthetically, what's your favorite 'jack/beast?
I personally love the cyclops

From the Last Thread
>>53281487
>Well yes, because he wasn't entirely wrong. Nyssor even said when G2 happened that he was close to the answer.

Its more the dickery that gets me. How many a great warrior or Kind Leader could have been saved when what they should have been doing is committing horrific atrocities.

In a Pragmatic sense, yeah this was a good idea. At least he will now have amazing intel on Cryx, who would have experienced the first role reversal in history.

But in a Just sense it shows why the Elven gods are such nanyying bitches.

>>53281781
The Old Classic the Jugger. The Jugger Embodies Warmachine to me.

>>53281781
Same. The cyclops are some of my favorite models, just wish they were more useful.

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Trollbloods Army - 50 / 50 points
[Theme] The Power of Dhunia

(Ragnor 1) Ragnor Skysplitter, The Runemaster [+30]
- Dire Troll Mauler [15]
- Earthborn Dire Troll [15]
- Slag Troll [10]
- Storm/Pyre Troll [9]
- Troll Axer [10]
- Troll Bouncer [9]
- Trollkin Runebearer [0(4)]
Troll Whelps [0(4)]
Krielstone Bearer & Stone Scribes (max) [9]
- Stone Scribe Elder [3]

How does this sound for a 50 point list?
Right now all I have is Ragnor, the Mauler, Axer, Bouncer, and Whelps. I'm thinking of the Storm or Pyre troll just cause the guy I go up against loves his infantry. Also, the slag will be useful because my meta is ENTIRELY Warmachine.

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>>53279660
>If Kreoss could deal with Severius' shit, he wouldn't rebel against the Visgoths.

He's not going to. Feora is going to rebel, and the Visgoths are going to oppose her. Then they will do something stupid like get assassinated by Thyra or appoint Vindictus as a temporary heirarch and then he gets defeated. Once they're out of the picture, Kreoss is going to have to step up and the Menothbowl will start in earnest. It will basically be relatively nice Protectorate vs. real fuckin jackass Protectorate.

bumpity

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>>53281781
My boy.

Just clearing something up from the last thread.

>Khardic agents copied the colossal construction plans and carried them north to a production facility in Korsk that complemented the one in Caspia. While the exact details of what followed remain shrouded in mystery, the Iron Alliance clearly betrayed their own when the existence of the great foundries in Korsk was revealed to the Orgoth. Khadoran historians believe this treachery was not pure spite but was instead intended to distract the Orgoth from construction in Caspia."
>The hell? I liked Khador as a faction but I always assumed they were just being bitter. Guess they WHERE thrown under the bus for the safety of Caspia.

Kings, Nations and Gods isn't written purely objectively. Each section is somewhat from the perspective of the nation it details.

In canon, it's never been proven that Caspia actually sold out the northern Colossal plans.

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>>53281781

>>53282177
>Savage
Has actually done good work when I've used them because no one wants to use activations killing them
>Raider
Fine with Mord/Zaal since it makes their own gun useful
>Shaman
Underwhelming
>Brute
Excellent speedbump with a fine animus

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Unf, gimme those elf Gundams

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>>53285631
I'm actually liking Hemera a lot more.

Imperatus is just a little TOO elaborate. It feels more top heavy somehow, whereas Hemera seems to strike a nice balance between fine details and the characteristic smooth lines and big shoulders of Ret. I like its 'wings' and head shape more, too.

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>>53281781
Cankerwurm. I like Cryx's profusion of weird non-humanoid 'Jacks, and Canks is just so cute!

Critique my tournament list:

https://conflictchamber.com/#bi1b_-0d171U1U1U1U1U2424243q3z3z3B2_2_gr__0y221G1G3qe41G1L3C3B2_2W2W3G3Hgr

Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points
[Theme] The Creator's Might

(Amon 1) High Allegiant Amon Ad-Raza [+29]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Crusader [10]
- Templar [15]
- Templar [15]
- Templar [15]
- Hierophant [0(3)]
Vassal of Menoth [0(3)]
Vassal of Menoth [0(3)]
Wrack [1]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Armory (Steamroller) [0]

Protectorate Army - 75 / 75 points

(Kreoss 1) High Exemplar Kreoss [+29]
- Reckoner [16]
- Redeemer [11]
- Redeemer [11]
- Hierophant [3]
Initiate Tristan Durant [4]
- Redeemer [11]
- Vigilant [9]
The Covenant of Menoth [4]
Wrack [1]
Choir of Menoth (min) [4]
Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5]
Deliverer Sunburst Crew [5]
Idrian Skirmishers (max) [15]
- Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide [5]
Armory (Steamroller) [0]


No need to critique me for taking it, I already know I'm an asshole.

>>53281781
>>53281834

I gotta go for the classic Ironclad. Love the new prime cover art.

>>53281667

>Lore Edition

What would it take for some quality lore/books/storyline in the IK?

>>53283177
>or appoint Vindictus as a temporary heirarch

Why the fuck would they do that? Just for the sake of getting a heirarch who's also a warcaster?

What's a good place to buy Warmahordes stuff online?

>>53288049
Non-shitty writers who keep having to toe the tank tread feminist company CEO's and his cuck-of-a-husband producers "men and women are completely the same in everything except women are better in X Y and Z and also give birth and look prettier and and and..." narrative 24/7. While that same cunt of a CEO doesn't really give a rats ass about the game or any of the other PP products, just money for her vapid shit.

>>53288767
What?

>>53288767
ok

>>53288767
Dude what? Are you ok?

>>53288665
I personally wanna see Vindy be Feora's Starscream.

>>53288049
Time, mostly. People always say that 40k's lore is far better than anyone else's, but I reckon that's mainly because it's far older, and has had time to produce good works. Given time and continued support, Warmachine could produce good lore just like Games Workshop has.

>>53289509
Lol did you see the new shit for 40k?
>oh we had these super amazing marines made in secret just in time for the new ed- I mean 10,000 years in the making, and they're beyond broken

>>53288767
Are you aware that this is the company that gave us Denny canonically sucking off a trencher for information?

You're off your rocker, mate. Go back to /pol/.

>>53289509
Warmahordes already has great lore though.

Just read Gods, Nations and Kings. The history of the Iron Kingdoms has an insane amount of depth and a rigorous internal logic to it, moreso than anything in 40K.

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When are we getting a non-character dire troll that uses melee weapons and not just fists
Kinda like pic related

>>53289786
>Are you aware that this is the company that gave us Denny canonically sucking off a trencher for information?
Wait what
I need to know more
You know for research

>>53287987
I'd recommend putting two Redeemers on Tristan, then dropping the Vigilant and Redeemer for the Eye of Truth. Gives you more of an anti-armor punch that will last until late game and also means you don't have to cast Purification every turn, which keeos Kreoss safer. Assuming the VoJ stays the same, I'm running this:

High Exemplar Kreoss - WJ: +29
- Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 13)
Vessel of Judgment - PC: 18
Initiate Tristan Durant - PC: 4
- Redeemer - PC: 11
- Redeemer - PC: 11
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Wrack - PC: 1
Choir of Menoth - Leader & 3 Grunts: 4
Idrian Skirmishers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide - Chieftain & Guide: 5

As for your Amon list, it's a decent skew. The problem I see is you'll really have to worry about infantry jamming you and all large bases creates some problems with positioning Amon since he wants to go first. Additionally, your threat ranges are super predictable because you have no ranged attacks in the army. You're going to have to be careful qbout what you drop the list into, but it seems like a decent start point.

Any New CID Information?

>>53289866
I don't get it laddie. How's they supposed to eats a man whole if'n you go cutting him in halveses first?

>>53290374
VoJ is unchanged from last week, which is good. I definitely think it's in a good spot now.

>>53290375
Well you don't see people complaining about the Bomber or the Blitzer do you?

>>53289893
It was in a NQ issue IIRC.

It happened shortly before she got cut in half. She illusioned herself up like Haley and suckie suckied some trencher with a crush on her.

>>53290493
bomber's just getting on in years y'see. Needs his meat tenderized a little first.

So have they just stopped making IKRPG books? Will it be updated in NQ from now on?

any leaks yet from this months nq?

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>>53285624

How do we know someone else in the Iron Alliance didn't sell them out or that it wasn't a spy?

Weren't War Witches spy masters or such?

For all we know, Rhul could have sold them out.

>>53289866

Does the Sea King count?

It technically has a melee weapon.

>>53291641
We don't.

All we know is that Khadorans claim they were betrayed by Caspia specifically. It's pretty much guaranteed to just be a petty lie made up to make themselves feel better. In reality it probably was just Orgoth spies getting past their defenses.

Looking to sell my pretty large army somewhere but not sure what places would be the best/most likely to sell on.

TL;DR: Whats everyones favorite place for buying/selling secondhand minis?

>>53283177
>Menothbowl

Get hype!

>>53288760
discountgamesinc

This message brought to you by Jay Larsen

>>53290573
Oh, so mk1 fluff. Yeah. I think Matt Wilson's wife got more involved after mk2 rolled out.

New CiD is out. Animantarax is interesting now. It's spd8 base. Cantankerous is only for rage tokens. Its club tail replaces crit smite with plain Knockdown.

In other words, the Animantarax became a bigger Grolar.

>>53283177

I wonder which side the Order Of The Alliegent Fist would side with.

To be honest, who stands to advance Menoth's cause more?

>>53291857
Also they only bring it up 600 years later to justify their war of aggression against the other Iron Kingdoms.

>>53291857
>We don't.

That's what surprised me. The rest of the fiction didn't say that Doom Reavers were all serial killers, or that work and punishment in Khador weren't often filled with corruption, needless death, and suffering.

But it DID objectively state that Khador was betrayed.

>>53291925
local facebook group would be a good bet, or just like ebay or some such site.

>Still not playing Mordikaar in the current year

(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Archidon [10]
- Archidon [10]
- Cyclops Raider [9]
- Despoiler [19]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Swamp Gobber Chef [1]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]

>Specialists
Basilisk Krea [7]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Gremlin Swarm [3]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]

>>53291925
What army?
How big?

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>>53292016
Yeah, you can tell because all the high heels and copious cleavage suddenly vanished.

Again, /pol/ is to your left. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

>>53292627
>5 minutes before this image she was probably being fucked over that barrel by those two guys

>>53281667
Is there like a store locator somewhere, where I can find places nearby me that host days to play it or tournaments?

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Are Umbreans in Khadoran Llael actually satisfied with Khador's rule of the place?

>>53293024
Depends on the individual. More and more became satisfied with it as Vlad proved to be a suitably pro-Umbrean ruler.

That said, Khador has recently been kicked out of either Merywyn or Rynyr, I don't recall which, and the Protectorate forces are withdrawing.

>>53292050
Do you have the changes for Ret? I hear the AFG got even better.

Here, I'll post it. Part 1.
This will be the final week for the Battle Engines/Thralls CID cycle.
CID Change log for 5/17/17

Khador
Gun Carriage: This change should solve the infinite attack issue while not introducing any additional unwanted effects. Please help us pick this apart!

Change the text of Crushing Weight to the following:

When it charges, this model is not required to move at least 3˝ to make impact attacks. Instead of making impact attacks only once, this model can make impact attacks each time it contacts a model for the first time during its charge.


Cryx
Desecrator: Many arguments were made for AOE 4 on the Desecrator and how it solidified its niche in Cryx. We felt it was still important to be able to charge your targets so we opted to allow both options.

Return Plague Bearer to AOE 4.
Replace Scather with Void Field on the Plague Bearer.

This attack’s AOE is a hazard that remains in play for one round. Non-undead models entering or ending their activations in the AOE suffer 1 point of corrosion damage XICONX.

Bane Knights: Much of the feedback stated how much better Warriors were to Knights. This point change should make the choice less automatic while keeping Warriors in a solid place.

Cost 9/15.


Bane Warriors: Much of the feedback stated how much better Warriors were to Knights. This point change should make the choice less automatic while keeping Warriors in a solid place.

Cost 10/16.
Wraith Engine: The Wraith Engine was being described as very passive and when it did leave Incorporeal being easily removed and having a low impact. Changing Cleave to Rapid Strike increases the Wraith Engines melee threat to non-infantry targets. The slight increase in boxes will hopefully force a little more commitment out of opponents trying to destroy the Wraith Engine.

Increase damage boxes by 2 (to 26).
Change Cleave to Rapid Strike.

This model can make one additional melee attack each Combat Action.

>>53293162
Part 2
Retribution
Arcantrik Force Generator: Much of our feedback pointed out some issues the AFG was having. We hope these changes will help the AFG feel a little more fluid on the battle field while increasing its effectiveness.

Cut the Dual Shot special rule.
Increase the ROF of the Teleforce Cannon to 2.
Replace the text of the Destructor Attack Type with the following:

Damage rolls resulting from this attack are automatically boosted.


Mercenaries
Hammerfall Siege Crawler: Roadblock was an awkward rule to use on the Siege Crawler and did not benefit very many models. Girded will help the Siege Crawler wiggle into some non-rhulic lists as well as provide a much easier to use model.

Reduce point cost to 17.
Replace Roadblock with Girded.

This model and friendly models B2B with it do not suffer blast damage.


Trollbloods
War Wagon: This change should solve the infinite attack issue while not introducing any additional unwanted effects. Please help us pick this apart!

Change the text of Crushing Weight to the following:

When it charges, this model is not required to move at least 3˝ to make impact attacks. Instead of making impact attacks only once, this model can make impact attacks each time it contacts a model for the first time during its charge.

United Kriels Theme Force: A large portion of this feedback showed how difficult it could be to position all of your medium based infantry and draw line of sight to enemy small and medium based models. Hopefully this change will alleviate some of that headache and make the list a little more consistent. Please provide feedback on how this changes deployment as well as how you advance during your game.

Change the second special rule to the following:

Warrior models in this army can ignore other friendly warrior models when determining LOS.

>>53293073

They still had control of Merywyn the last time I checked.

>>53293180
Part 3
Circle
Celestial Fulcrum: Battle reports showed the Fulcrum had a severe decrease in effectiveness, even in Wold centric armies. The return of Fury Bank should help smooth those turns out. We also noticed that because of the low range of Power of the Stones it required ranged Wolds to function. The increase in collection range should make some of the more melee oriented Wolds more attractive to take with the Fulcrum.

Regains Fury Bank.
Increase point cost back to 19.
Power of the Stones affects command range.
Skorne
Siege Animantarax: Applying the speed bonus from Cantankerous to the base SPD of the Animantarax should make it an easier model to play. It now has the option to forgo Cantankerous and play independently on a flank or the option to deploy more central and be attacked by Paingivers for tokens. Removing Critical Smite and replacing it with Knockdown should drastically increase the melee output of the Animantarax against higher defense targets.

SPD increased to 8.
The Cantankerous special rule no longer adds to SPD.
Replace Critical Smite with Knockdown on the Siege Animantarax’s Club Tail weapon.

When a model is hit by an attack with this weapon, it becomes knocked down.


Minions
Sacral Vault: Feedback showed that many players wanted a heavier support role out of the Sacral Vault. Telemetry synergizes very well with several of the Blind Water Warlocks and promotes the concept of the model.

The Sacral Vault gains Telemetry.

Telemetry - Other friendly Faction models gain +2 to magic attack rolls against enemy models in this model’s command range.

>>53292571
Cryx, owned basically one of every unit and caster as of a couple years ago and most of the jacks with duplicates of certain things like Banes. Also had a smaller Legion army that I would mess around with.

>>53292127
Could try to sell to the local group I suppose, have to see if the old one I was in is still active.

>>53293255
I might be interested in buying it, do you have a picture of them?

>>53292052
>I wonder which side the Order Of The Alliegent Fist would side with.
They go with Amon. I'm pretty sure Amon is part of dickass Protectorate and will therefore side with Feora.

>To be honest, who stands to advance Menoth's cause more?
Menoth don't care so long as you worship and join his army after you die. As for gaining more adherents to the faith, both sides have their methods (crusading and missionary work for Kreoss, crusading and more crusading for Feora).

>>53291641
>For all we know, Rhul could have sold them out.

Obviously untrue. I mean, it's not as if Rhul isn't behind every major war in the history of the Iron Kingdoms. And it certainly isn't as if Rhulfolk assassinated the elven gods and chased Thagrosh to the specific mountain where Everblight was waiting.

>>53293024
>>53293073
>ywn watch Ossrum laugh down from the walls of Horgenhold at Reznik's demands to hand over the Llaelese refugees
>ywn watch as Harby throws thousands of Menites to die at the feet of an actually successful dorf fortress

Feels bad man.

>>53293589

Did that actually happen?

And was it Reznik trying to slaughter people again? I remember him doing something like that at Riversmet.

>>53293608
No, it never happened. I just really wanted it to.

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Well, after reading the latest League fiction, I can conclusively confirm that Old Witch is best grandma.

>>53293024
As seen in Vlad's torture story, most Umbreans are really patriotic. That probably means by the count of individuals, some will favor Khador as long as Umbrey allies with them, while others hold loyalty to Llael.

That being sad, despite initially despising Khador due to them being asshole invaders, a good share of Llaelese folks turned to them for safety after Menoth rolled into the picture (turns out being taxed and put to work is a lot better than being nailed to cross and burned alive).

The population of Llael is split anyway, depening on the area. For example, the regions conquered and held by Kommander Harkevich were treated friendly and offered reparations out of the Khadoran treasury for their infrastructure and cities, making him popular with the pacified civilians.
On the other, the areas taken by the Butcher and his army of Doomreavers, mercilessly slaughtering every single living being in the area, obviously hate Khador and most likely joined the rebellion.

>>53293073
Khador is only confirmed to have lost Riversmet thus far.

>>53293073
Neither as far as I know. Cygnar took Riversmet in the newest novel, but unless something got progressed in the commamd books, Khador hasn't lost amy other major cities.

>>53293649
Don't worry anon. Ossrum's at Fort Balton now, which means he'll probably get to laugh from the walls at somebody.

>>53292627
Wouldn't /pol/ be to the right?

hah

>>53293266
I dont unfortunately. Fair warning: only one model (some jack) is painted and some of the thralls dont have arms glued on because of a packaging error but I should still have the spare arms that customer support sent me. Also, I dont remember if I got the MK3 card updates either and Im not at home so I cant check but I do have foam trays for everything.

>>53293652
Yup. She's the coolest. You can see why Khador threw a fit when it was told they were losing her.

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>>53293652
>the latest League fiction
gimmegimmegimme

>>53293024
you could say that they are split down the middle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYppAs6ZdI

okey im going now.

>>53294038
Yo. http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/leagues/crossroads-of-courage

>>53294116
Like she's so Khador. Ostensibly a villainous character, she's also divided in motive. She wants to save the world, but is still humane (Or at least visible) in her desire to do so.

Heck its likely she engineered Khador has her pet project to make a Country that was Humane enough to exist in, but bloody and aggressive enough to grant her power.

>>53294116
Thanks you senpai.

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So what are the odds of any factions getting a large, flying serpentine or draconic beast and mounting a gun arsenal to it's back to create a Gargantuan reminiscent of something from Mahou Daisakusen?

I'd assume the Skorne would do it first, if anyone would.

>>53294339
>a large, flying serpentine or draconic beast
Uh isn't that already a Legion Gargantuan

>>53294191

I've always wondered if the Old Witch could be Dhunia or related to her in some way.

I'm figuring she isn't, but I still have to wonder.

>>53294364

Yes, but the odds of them slapping a gun arsenal to it's back are slim given the Legion doesn't really have any use for machinery of any kind or fire arms.

So been getting into the Chaos Space Marines, especially Nurgle. Are there any big characters under Nurgle's command that aren't widely known? I always get the sense Nurgle is basically more of a concept and a lot of the Chaos Space Marine "villains" are basically big video game bosses and not very big characters.

Seems like a waste in terms of the lore and everything else, because I fucking love Nurgle and was what got me into Warhammer.

>>53294490
Wrong war-noun thread buddy

>>53294490
This might interest you.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Category:Characters_(Nurgle)

Also get the fuck out.

>>53293162
Whoever came up with the idea that the GUNcarriage needed to be a melee model should get shot in his dumb fucking face (Soles)

>>53289786
Huh? Now I'm intrigued. Where can I find this lore? My pants need to know.

>>53294598
He should. But if it's to be a Melee piece at least it's something. Overall it gained more than it lost, and its design allows it to work with more than just the Vlads and Sorcha 1.

I AM also miffed it's a Melee thing, and its visual design doesn't communicate its level of ramming capability at all as well as the Meat Thresher does despite doing it way better.

>>53294598
Which is stupider, a melee gun carriage, or a ranged Skorne theme list?

>>53295097

>a ranged Skorne theme list?

I think they had one called "Siege Column" back in MK2, but it wasn't all that great.

I think a Skorne Gunline is pretty decent though given the tools they have access to.

>>53295097
Melee Gun Carriage.

At least Skorne could theoretically weild ranged weapons. But the Retard that thought that a Tank wants to be in melee (With the giant Robots and Nightmare horrors) was a deep retard,

>>53293196
>Siege Animantarax

So they made it the Gun Carriage.

This is ok.

>>53295128
>Skorne
>Ranged tools
Like what? Morghoul2's feat and Mortality?

>>53295386

It's an absolute demon with Rasheth these days; somebody gave Skorne scather templates and there is synergy there.

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>>53281667

Hey guys, Menoth player here. Can someone help me build a list or 2? Here's what I've got:

CASTERS:
Reznik, Wrath of Ages
Feora 1 2 and 3 (I like fire...)
Kreoss 1
Malekus

HEAVY JACKS:
Judicator
Avatar
Hand of Judgement
2x Castigator
2x Reckoner
2x Vanquisher
Templar

LIGHT JACKS:
3x Revengers
3x Repenters

SOLOS:
Nicia
Reclaimer Gatekeeper
Wrack
Initiate Tristan Durant

UNITS (all max):
Cinerators
Deliverers (useless, I know)
Zealots + UA
Flame Bringers (apparently known as murder ponies)
Rhoven & Co
Choir
Daughters
Errants + UA
Cleansers + UA
Flameguard + UA

Here's what I'm running now:
Kreoss 1
Templar
2x Repenter
Min Choir
Flameguard + UA
Cleansers + UA
Errants + UA
Daughters

I'll post a to-buy list and add to it based on what you guys tell me in here.

Thanks in advance!

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>>53296031

TO BUY:
Harbinger
Kreoss 2 and 3
Fire of Salvation
Sevvy 1 and 2
Blessing of Vengeance
Scourge of Heresy
Vessel of Judgement
Vassal Mechanik (maybe 2 of em?)
Vassal of Menoth (maybe 2?)
Deliverer Sunburst Crew
Errant Seneschal
Exemplar Vengers
Covenant
Pyrrhus
Hierophant

>>53292836
Nope. Tell us where you are and we might be able to help you.

I read the Iron Kingdoms RPG lore from the core book and some from one of the supplements. I really like Ord. If I wanted to make a battlegroup from Ord, would a pure Merc force be my only option?

>>53296699

I must be misremembering my RPG lore because I thought that would go without saying.

>>53296699
>If I wanted to make a battlegroup from Ord, would a pure Merc force be my only option?

Probably, I mean, that's where all the Ord characters are.

>>53293122
Traded dual shot for rof 2.

>>53297191
And swapped +2 POW for free damage boosting on Destructor. Guess I'd better get to repainting my secondhand space cricket and finally finish a gun list to pair with my sword list.

>>53294465
GW GET OUT REEEEEEE

>>53298084

Has GW actually done that?

>>53298108
Tyranids have a awful lot of gun barrels for a strictly biological faction.

>>53298108
looks like a misclick

>There are people who play cuckvergence
>And they think they'll ever get models and that conflux will ever be good
>They also will take memekins
>And think they're not more of the same
hahahaha

>>53299756
Haha friend trully guffaw wprthy
;_;

Does anybody play Cephalyx? Are they good or crap?

>>53302285
Yo.

They are pretty cool and interesting, but have a ton of bad matchups, due to their limited selection.

Thexus is secretly one of mercs best casters. He has free arc nodes, a great healing spell, buff, Hexblast, Telekinesis, a brutal Feat and Dominate for Warbeasts instead of jacks.

Cephalyx infantry spam is really hard to play against, because the Cephalyx infantry is pretty good. They're tough, cheap, can unjam themselves from engagements by exploding, obliterate opposing infantry with POW 12 sprays and buff select models into radical can-openers.

The problem is the selection: Cognifex is pretty bad; He wants to play Monstrosity-heavy, but due to a lack of power up, needs to hurt his own models, making them easy to shoot off the table. His feat, despite being really good for an Alpha Strike, is easy to play around (a 13" threat is great, but it's still always the same 13" threat) and it damages his own things so much, that even charging trenchers can take them out.

Thexus, as I mentioned before, is almost broken (if he had a source of Pathfinder, hoo boy). But the reason why rarely anyone plays him in tournaments, is due to how badly he plays with deathclock or timed turns (Moving 60+ models across the table takes forever and in his feat turn, you also have to move the army of your opponent too).

If you have any Cephalyx questions regarding specific models and units, hit me.

When's the next ADR change?

>>53302620
After Lock+Load.

im a noob with a friend that want to start playing warmachines. Is 2 players set good and how does Cygnar stand in it in a long run (will i use this units after some time or they are meh in bigger games? )
also what to buy next if i want to expand?

>>53302674
The set is fine to start with. Cygnar is also a strong faction (but so is pretty much every faction). Keep in mind though that Stormguard are utter trash.

>>53302656
Thank you friend n_n

>>53292836
http://storefinder.privateerpress.com

Getting back into the game. Still have a good chunk of CoC stuff for Syntherion from back in 2012-14, and from what I've seen not much has changed for him beyond not as fat of stacks of Synergy.

So wanting to expand into Lucant, but other than a couple models (like the medium infantry with shield guys, they're cool), I'm not keen on how Lucant functions in Mk3. Similar to what I know before or is there something he's improved or deficient in now?

>>53305548
He's one of the most changed casters in CoC, in fact.

He lost Purification and exchanged it for an upkeep that lets him cancel upkeeps when a model in BG hits something in melee. Still very useful, but it changes his matchups quite a bit.

The change to Watcher also was a big deal, since he lost the denial aspects to it.

Other than that, he can't camp to invincibility on feat turn anymore, which means he has to be less aggressive.

Infantry straight up aren't worth it in Mk3 though, not for CoC. The nerf to recursion combined with the CoC theme list means that putting infantry on the table is just a huge blow to your effectiveness.

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I've always loved Invictors with their weird awesome revolver rifle sword. Vyros 2s double barrel shotgun sword is also great.

>>53306002
Ah, so chunk up on fitting vectors with support bits? Makes an easy investment if so since infantry boxes are pricey and I have plenty of magenetized vectors.

>>53306034
You know what would also be cool? Knights with guns on their lances.

No way PP could make those suck, no sir.

>>53308466
They'd be great if they didn't have the lance rule

>>53308466
>Hey guys what if we made a unit called Storm Lances that have lances with electro leap
>Yeah that sounds pretty cool and fitting
>Then what if we gave them a gun that had electro leap too
>Wait what's the point of that? They're called Storm Lances, what do they even need a gun fo-
>And we can make them RAT6
>This is just dumb, stop i-
>And give them assault
I imagine the meeting went something like this.

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>>53308536
>>53308663
>steel plated horsemen with steel plated horses and grenade-tipped lances
>the grenade is just an excuse to saddle them with the Lance rule and cuck their usefulness (just take the Thane so you can get Unyielding back and then be unable to activate it lmao)
>meanwhile Storm LANCES can butcher anything small or medium based (and the guy behind him, and the guy next to that guy) on the charge because their "Lances" have Brutal Charge instead
>with Assault thrown in, because being able to fight at full effectiveness in melee after the charge just isn't good enough if they can't do two turns of work in one
>these units have the same point cost

>>53308663
>and we can make them RAT6
They're RAT5.

>>53309715
*7

Winmore is free

>>53309734
Laddermore is not free, even in Storm Division (the theme specifies small based solos for free stuff).

>>53309142
If you want to complain about cavalry being worse than Storm Lances you can suck my dick because I play Skorne.

>>53310195
What? Jumpcats are great.

>>53309142
>Exemplar Vengers nod in sympathy

>>53310366
>Dragoon support solo that gives them Dodge
>Little to no DEF buffs in Skorne
They should be 14/16

>>53310366

Aren't they 20 something points though?

>>53310637
almost all cav in the game are 12/20.

>>53310637
They are now 20 points. They got a point cheaper in the Skorne update.

>>53310750
>PP used to consider Ferox to be stronger than Lances
What a time we live in.

>>53310798
Ferox are actually legit now. Definitely the 2nd best Cav unit. They're so fucking annoying to fight with Mak2

>>53310748
>>53310750

How can you justify taking them for 20 points?

>>53310906
tough + steady + makeda save

>>53310935

Rhadeim do anything special for them?

>>53310906
1. Huge threat range
2. Can combine spears onto boosted bites for bigger damage spikes than most
3. Even once they're in they can still get boosted damage

Some casters push them over the edge with support, namely Makeda1 and Makeda2 for their bonus speed, bonus DEF, and complete inability to die.

>>53310906
Because they're fucking immortal with Mak2?

>>53310935
>>53311050

So Makeda is the only one they have any real utility with?

>>53311190
I think Zaal1 can make them into assassination bombs with last stand

>>53311003
Gives them Dodge, which can be relevant. He's also pretty much one of the best Storm Rager targets Makeda2 can get, and she loves her some Ferox anyway.

>>53311213
He can, since CMA interacts well with Last Stand and the Ferox get weird places.

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So how is this for a Harkevich list?

And which Warjack gets more utility with him? Black Ivan or Behemoth?

>>53311190
GOOD FEROX CASTERS AND WHY:

>Makeda1
Quicken, Carnage, feat
>Makeda2
Dash, Deflection, feat, Stay Death
>Mordikaar
Revive (4 points per model is gravy, and they can still jump because nothing explicitly prevents it), Essence Blasts from weird places at POW12, feat
>Xerxis1
Defender's Ward, feat, Battle Plans
>Zaal1
Last Stand

>>53312174
Hoo, boy... Where should I start?

Sorry, but even without going full tryhard, this list is terrible.

First of all, Harkevich is a Jack caster. All of his Spells and abilities relate to Warjacks and he doesn't do anything for the rest of his Army. If you play Harkevich, you play him for the jacks. And by that I mean the list should be ALL JACKS or as close to ALL JACKS as possible.

If you want some infantry units in a Harkevich army, they have to be self-sufficient, because their casters is not doing anything for them.

Pikemen are good, but if you don't run them in the theme force or with any Support (Kovnik, Uhlan Markhov), they are almost always worse than Black Dragons (who are completely awesome by themselves). Regardless, trim the amount of Pikemen.

Winter Guard Rifle Corps are awesome, because they don't need much to function. However, you want Kovnik Jozef Grigorovich over the Artillery Captain and the third Rocket (whose absence is baffling, since you have 2 points left over???)

Mortar is fine (even without the Officer, forget him)

Man-O-War Bombardiers are barely a playable unit, even considering their best possible use. They are expensive, die relatively fast (for their cost) and once again, have absolutely no synergy with your caster.

>>53312405

>Man-O-War Bombardiers are barely a playable unit, even considering their best possible use.

They still haven't fixed those yet?

>>53312500
They're better than before and better than the god awful Demolition Crew.

But there's still no caster who really wants them. Maybe Irusk2, because you can hide them behind Shocktroopers and shoot through them?

>>53312500
They are nit unplayable like before. Just bland and suffer from not doing much.

When the MOW theme force is to be released all MOW units are to be revisted and fixed.

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>When you have unpainted models in your Steamroller pairing but you paint other shit instead

>>53313680
those look really good anon, but wouldn't it be better to photograph them in a makeshift lightbox?

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>>53296031
>>53296149

Just gonna draw attention to this once.

So how likely is it that Khador would build a Colossal that has fists that work similar to the Demolition squads Ice Maul and the Juggernauts Ice Axe?

>>53310474
Skorne players everybody.

Just look at the mental illness

>>53315322
Unlikely probably. That level of enchantment would cost about as much as a New Colossal

Where am I supposed to read the new fluff about cryx if there is no fluff in the command books? I've been away from the game for about a year

Does anyone have the Hellslinger, Mark of Cain book? Its not in the database.

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>>53314836
peak this yo

>>53316975
Fluff is now being done through Skull Island Expeditions books.
The new fluff for Cryx is in that and entries for Aiakos2, Agathia and Mortenebra2 for the Cryx Command

But if you want a summary:

>Toruk temporarily went inland and caused a zombie apocalypse until the dragons ganged up and the fight caused him to leave as one of them got to eat the Athanc that Venethrax was carrying around
>Cryx was kicked out of the Thornwood
>Terminus is still dead
>Aiakos killed a king and took over rulership in one of the Scharde Isles
Mortenebra has decided she needs more field experience to move on with her work
>Agathia is slowly rebelling against the Lich Lord that controls her (think Maelok)
>Goreshade defected and joined Retribution as Elf Jesus
>You guys have a unique pistol wraith called the Hellslinger Phantom that killed Lynch of the B13 and abducted Caine's daughter (who has the warcaster spark)

>>53317791

>Goreshade defected and joined Retribution as Elf Jesus

How did he defeat the Skorne again?

>>53317929
The Devourer Wurm being summoned to Caen briefly set off a mini cataclysm in the desert, and several earthquakes and storm ripped apart the Skorne supply trains. The Iosan army rallied and drove off the remaining Skorne invaders. Skorne is now invading the Protectorate I believe, but I haven't read Godless yet.

>>53318041

>and several earthquakes and storm ripped apart the Skorne supply trains.

Did it affect the bridges that allowed them to cross the abyss in the first place or fortresses such as those they keep at the Castle of Keys and what not?

>>53289825
OK and then read any of the rest of it without cringing.

So what book are the thorn gun mages in? I want to read their entry but I cant for the life of me find them.

>>53319578
They will probably be in the Mercenaries command book.

>field black 13
>and caine's hellsingers
Behehe

>>53319578
>>53320021
I'd like to see adult!Gaston become a Thorn Gunmage as well as a full warcaster.

>>53320021
>Llael theme book

Sorry if this is a terrible question but, can anybody give me advice on which faction I would like? I tend to try every "class" in other games before I settle. For example:

When I played WoW I liked Rogue and Mage.
When I played League I liked Lee Sin, Singed.
When I played Magic I liked Elves (creatures with lots of effects, not a big fan of counting) and combo/control decks (from Enter the Infinite to Birthing Pod)

Based on this, from whatever you guys are familiar with, which faction would you recommend to me, and why? I ask because, people mostly say "pick the one you like the look of" but none of them really look "cool" to me except for Grymkin (even then it's mostly just Piggybacks and Dreamer) and I'm worried about jumping on a Limited Faction. I've never invested in a Tabletop game like this so, I'm kind of nervous. (I always feel nervous desu.)

I'm open to Warmachine and Hordes.

Would appreciate any advice y'all can offer me.

>>53320243
Please no. Pirates, dorfs, or bdsm book only. Mercs is already split up enough as it is.

>>53320356
There's not gonna be a Mercenaries command book.

>>53320392
What's the plan for mercs then?

>>53281667
I have a question which isn't about the game itself as such, but rather about non-Games Workshop war games in general: Where do you guys typically play WarmaHordes or any other games you play, given that most people who play 40k, so I imagine, play it at their local GW branch? Do you have a FLGS? A local tabletop gaming club? Did you and a bunch of friends all just agree to grab a starter box each?

>>53320102
You can't, Ryan and Watts are both listed as "2"s on the Hellslingers card

>>53320285
Ret
>They are Elves
>They have magical shit
>They are faggots

It's perfect based on the shit you named. If you don't really care about the shit you named, roll a dice on it.

>>53320509
Individual theme books.

>>53320285

Your first army is only a testbed to learn the rules and the 'reality' of the game, as opposed to the broad strokes a wiki site can give.
As such you are better not overthinking it and simply choose a battlebox for the army that teaches you interesting mechanics and sounds fun in very broad strokes.
So Cygnar for shooting, Skorne for beast handling etc.

Alternatively, take Mercs or Minions. That way, you can port models across and have a playable army for minimum investment once you know the game better.
IE- a shitload of Gators, and then cycle out your battlegroup to match.

>>53320921
Local GW branches aren't for playing, at most they'll have 3 tables. (they have to break sales goals to even ask for that 3rd table) Theyre for getting new people into the hobby.

What are some other games similar to warmachine if I need a break but don't want to leave my comfort zone? I mostly care about fielding infantry units on round bases.

>>53317629
Bump, please

>>53320921
just at individual hobby shops.

>>53322887

Wrath of Kings is sort like a weird in between of Malifaux and Warmahordes that's pretty fun. Circle, Pigs, Skorne, and Everblight can make reasonable enough proxies for Teknes, Goritsi, and Nasier.

Game is dead as fuck though.

>>53324068
If "not dead" is a requirement, I'm not sure there's really an answer, unless you consider 40k/AoS to be similar to Warmachine.

>>53324173
>unless you consider 40k/AoS to be similar to Warmachine
That's like considering a STOP sign and a motherboard similar just because they are both mostly flat.

>>53324215
Exactly.

If the criteria are "round-based infantry units", "similar to Warmachine" and "not dead", there are exactly zero options out there.

Is anyone actually playing Runewars? It doesn't have the round-based stuff, but I've actually seen someone play it.

>>53324215
Both are the only not dead 28mm round base bigger-than-skirmish scale, not vehicle focused, non-historical wargames with unit mechanics. That is a pretty big overlap.

>>53324364
Isn't warpath a thing?

>>53312192
Can they jump after revive?

Jump occurs after a full advance and before a combat action. If they can't charge, jump is also disabled. Without the combat action, no jump.

>>53322887
Hordes

>>53324412
I literally have not heard of it.

>>53324415
>Without the combat action, no jump.
Correct.

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What are your favorite models and why?

>>53322887
If comfort zone is your main concern, then I'd recommend one of the popular skirmish-scale games like Malifaux, Guildball or Infinity. Close enough to be familiar, different enough to be refreshing.

>>53324068
WoK isn't bad, but probably a bit tougher to find a group for. Pretty safe bet you're in "buy two armies and invite others to play your stuff" territory at that point.

>>53324173
>unless you consider 40k/AoS to be similar to Warmachine.
GW's offerings are extremely similar to warmachine, but I'm guessing "not sucking" is an even more important requirement than "not dead". Of course, according to someone on literally every WMH general, this game is dead too, so maybe that last doesn't matter that much.

>>53324215
>That's like considering a STOP sign and a motherboard similar just because they are both mostly flat.
They're not identical, but they are absolutely neighbors in the same wargame sub-genre. As someone else said, they share a scale and approx model count. They've also got the same turn structure and an extremely similar set of abstractions in their core mechanics. WMH and 40K are closer to eachother than either is to Infinity, for instance.

>>53327589
>share a scale and approximate model count
I'd say "used to share" considering how 40k and Sigmar took the supersize model trend and ran with it to the point of making infantry scale units optional. It's at the point where Sigmar's - and soon 40k's - basic infantry are now being designed 40mm on average to keep them from looking unimpressive, I guess.

But as far as rules go, I'd say the d6 vs. 2d6 randomization and warnoun complexity are the only blatant differences.

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>>53325885
I fuckin' love a lot of the Trollkin solos/UA's.

Just look at this chunky bastard. He looks like some kind of weird noseless Fire Emblem enemy.

It's a damn shame Trollbloods are kinda trash.

40k vs wmh is so weird to me, I don't have 40k, but whenever I play it it's absolutely super boring, I'm never into it at all. But I'm crazy into wmh.

40k has better models by a long shot tho.

>>53328960
I started out with WHFB, then got into 40k, then WMH, and I dunno if I could go back to cover conga lines and arguing true line of sight and whatnot, but yeah, dead-on with the models. A lot of the old metal ones are great, but PP really needs to step up their plastic game. The levels of flash/shit mold lines and lost fine detail is pretty bad. The thing that triggers my autisms the most is how bad the restic warps when even a little heat gets applied. It's enough that I don't want to field any infantry with spears because they end up looking so sad and droopy.

>>53329295
>infantry with droopy spears
Holy shit, put a trigger warning on that post. I just finished cleaning up a box of Houseguard Halberdiers.

>>53328721
It's more just they can't run an infantry list.
Most beast heavy lists under Power of Dhunia tend to do fine.

>>53330380
If by tend to do fine you mean do exactly what Menoth/Khador jack spam lists do but significantly less effectively, then yeah.

>>53324469
Mantic answer to 40k. Some of the models look decent and I heard the rules are good but then it was hyped for a bit only to be completely ghosted afterwards. Beats me.

>>53330613
Trolls show up more frequently at #1 on discount than menoth, but okay.

>>53324068
Why is it dead though?

>>53330677
Are you alright? They came up three times this year each time on third place. Menoth was there five times even getting a first once.

>>53330643
It's getting a resurgence here soon. I didn't have enough context to fully understand their article, but Mantic talked about some early mistakes with the system and IP, and they're now ready AND able to give it the attention it deserves.

>>53330699
CMON jumps between projects like an ADD kid on a sugar rush, plus the art style is somewhat polarizing.

>>53330699
Honestly I have no idea. Its not really dead. But people are suddenly very cross from it.

I think it was botched marketing, and whilst its much more balanced then before, people deride it for those lesser unbalanced much more.

It just feels baffling to me when people say "man I sure feel liek I don't trust PP, so its time to go back to GW!"

Shit on PP all you need to but it's like abandoning the girlfriend that made fun of your lego star wars kits in exchange for the one that stole your wallet, stabbed you in the balls, and when you come back is busy talking about how much of a stupid shit head you are, and asks for more money.

Ive got the Troll battlebox. What do I do to make a standard list I can just play over and over until I get the game learnt?

>>53332188
Mauler
Fennblades + UA
Chronicler
Fell Caller Hero

>>53328721
Can't stop thinking about how i probably still won't run the war wagon, even after all the buffs it got. It's just not all that great.

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>>53328721

I don't consider them trash, but what problems do the Trollbloods have vs the Skorne and which one has more problems table top wise?

>>53331716
In my experience people aren't leaving PP for GW. In my area Warmahordes was popular as a very balanced, very competitive game so it attracted people mostly interested in actually playing the game. This is the polar opposite audience from GW.

All Mk3 accomplished was throw a lot of peoples' Mk2 lists in the trash, and it didn't make the game significantly more fun in the process. Mk3 is really just Mk2.5, and they did a botched job of releasing it and basically admitted that they suck at playtesting. Since DC left Soles has been making error after error because he doesn't understand the core appeal of the game.

So you're a fairly serious Warmahordes player, PP takes your favorite shit away and doesn't really give you much else to play with. Your options are starting a new faction or rebuilding your own. Or? Spend that money on like 3 Guild Ball factions, or infinity, or Armada/X-Wing. That's what pretty much everyone here in the NE did. Late Mk2 SRs would frequently exceed 16 people and run every 1-2 weeks across various stores, and now I see people sharing event invites asking if people are going to show up because they often have to cancel for lack of attendance.

PP fucked up the game horribly by releasing a mediocre disruptive update, killing consumer confidence. And unlike GW they don't have a strong enough setting or good enough models for people to ignore the bad leadership.

I'm not selling off my models but I doubt I'm going to play unless PP gets bought or Soles gets fired and they fix the damn game. They wanted the casual audience bad and figured competitive players would stick around and they were 100% wrong because there are competitors that are way more appealing to casual players thanks to lower model counts or better IPs.

>>53332523
Skorne are just so much better. Not a top tier faction, but very playable in almost any matchup. Trolls have issues and are easily the worst faction right now. Most of their beasts are fine, but some of their support and casters as well of most of their infantry just need some serious looking at.

>>53332523
They are a DEF12 faction and all their infantry dies to basic shooting. They are already overpriced thanks to Tough (which is easier to shut down than ever). They are plagued with mediocre stats with the understanding that buffs will bring them from below average to above average, but the investment required to do so (with low-Fury warlocks) means your shit is uniformly less cost-effective, easier to shut down or circumvent, and frequently out-paced by your opponent's shit.

A faction whose shtick is durability means nothing in a game where any beater out-threatening you (and with premeasuring, no less) can trivially scrap your models. Some of our best tricks from Mk2 got outright removed from the game or nerfed to irrelevance like our heavy infantry which trivially die to infantry charges (8 boxes is too much in a game with 10 point heavies, lol), RoW, EE (which actually died late in Mk2) - and we didn't get a whole lot in return for it.

>>53332531
I played Trolls, Gators, and Cyriss in Mk2. I was rewarded by them neutering two factions and outright failing to support the third so they could make Malifaux models instead.

The worst part was it's not like Trolls or Gators were dominating the meta. Trolls had exactly 3 good lists that were all annihilated between the end of Mk2 and the release of Mk3 and we weren't compensated for that in the slightest. Gators were sacrificed because they apparently thought we'd start buying pigs.

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Where could I find a tutorial on making Iosan/Ret-themed terrain? I could swear I've seen an article on it somewhere before.

>>53328721
I love the look of Trollbloods, like, it's the thing keeping me in these threads and interested in buying in, despite lack of local buying/playing options.

>>53332531
I got the impression that PP always resented the fact that they found the most success with competitive players who flocked from GW to them because it was a much better game. Not perfect, but in 2008-2009 when Warmachine really started getting popular it was pretty much the only game on the market that was unapologetic about being a game first and a hobby second.

Unfortunately (from their perspective anyway) this lead to Warmachine players getting a reputation for being kind of cutthroat tryhards, although this was never really the case. Any game that you can plonk down 50 models on the table and lose in 10 minutes because you made a quarter-inch movement error and got assassinated is going to leave newbies butthurt, especially since player skill is a huge differentiator in the game. I think they hit critical mass with the competitive market (i.e., most of the people interested in playing that game already were, and were not going to invest in a third or fourth faction so sales were slowed) and the game had become to massive and complex for newbies to break into. Nobody was playing 35 (now, 50) point games except as tutorials. 50 (75) pt SR or GTFO, which lead to a heavily standardized but heavily competitive game with a steep and unforgiving learning curve.

You could tell they were trying to expand into other realms, but failed on every account. Pretty much all of their board games and RPG products fell flat even with hardcore WMH fans. New IPs like level 7 were outshone by games with better designers. They're going whole hog on fluff but I just don't think many people really give a shit anymore.

>>53333103
continued

In Mk3 they tried to take a lot of things out to make it more casual-friendly. More big stompy robots, no more weird measuring rules, etc. But it was so similar to Mk2 that Mk2 players could still dominated, and now have unfettered access to full premeasuring so they can spend 15 minutes setting up their first turn and fucking wreck you. They didn't see that premeasuring would allow for this and are trying to walk back the logical end result of the policies they introduced, and Soles' comments about how they don't see tactical planning as a primary feature of the game indicates that they are actively trying to move the game away from their most active market segment. This is why the game has pretty much imploded. They want to be like GW, where they have diehard fans that will eat whatever they shit out and have no illusions about wanting a balanced game. Warmahordes players held PP accountable when they released broken shit, and never bought the underpowered shit. You would have to be a drooling mongoloid to buy their line that Mk3 was playtested for years or whatever. They desperately hit the reset button because more compact, casual-friendly games were eating their lunch and they can't compete with that. For the cost of a 75 point army I could field whole factions in other games.

>>53332639
>>53332531

I will agree that the way they handled it was pretty shit, but they didn't shit it up "For Teh Casuals".

The game was broken. The game balance was WAY worse than now, despite all the rose tinted goggles. Defense 17 Infantry was not balanced, Neither where Auto Stealthed Weaponmasters or the Massive arced explody infantry, Neither where any of the wrjacks. You either could hit them or ate shit. Most of the stuff was not balanced. But it did feel nice for people who didn't give a shit about that I suppose.

But Soles is a shit. The game REALLY did not need another faction at this time. CRITICALLY didn't need it. And the way he plays is like a retard.

Im pretty sad that DC Left because the COC was like "Hey lets make another faction thats just better then all the rest in design!"

But that actually got me quite pissed and so I quit the game until the release of MKIII.

But good point on the alternate games.

>>53333152
I disagree that the game was broken. It definitely had balance issues but it was a functional game. You couldn't blindly pick models without knowing what the meta had in store, but if you had a solid understand of the game's top lists, you could come in with a plan that had a reasonable degree of success. Everything had a counter, everything could be played around - though admittedly a lot of factions had way deeper toolboxes than others.

The biggest problem with Mk3 is that it chopped off the top end of the Mk2 balance curve and pretended that it fixed the game. If anything it just made everything really stale and boring.

Guild Ball, locally, has pretty much entirely taken over most of the Warmachine players. It's not necessarily a better game even. It's just way more accessible and doesn't have the bad taste that Mk3 left.

>>53333222
>I disagree that the game was broken.

Defense 17 Infantry that also hits hard and is accurate. How do you deal with it? Most of the stuff that really shreds infantry had not been released and when it did it just changed what kind of nearly unhittable infantry you would bring.

So the stuff that had blessed or just hit accurate enough became a standard or other BS. The game was not balanced. And I would say the selection of shitty stuff was much much much higher.

>The biggest problem with Mk3 is that it chopped off the top end of the Mk2 balance curve and pretended that it fixed the game. If anything it just made everything really stale and boring.

But this is a really interesting point.

Would people prefer a more unbalanced game curve even if it meant less balance?

But I will admit that MK3 Just has some-kind of bad taste.

People act like Mk3 was the game killer but it was just the last straw. PP has been fucking everything up since like 2014.

> Releasing theme forces with zero playtesting, waiting until the models are sold, then nerfing them

> Take 9 million years to release model kits after spoilers but never let customers have an ETA

> Fail at polystyrene so hard it takes 3 years to get a kit out

> Outright lie about dual colossal kits so people don't stop buying the resin ones

>Suddenly announce that you're producing a new edition that's secretly been in development for years, but somehow have a ton of models that were spoiled in Mk2 but were never actually legal

> Outright lie about the extent of playtesting of the new edition

> Have your lead fucking designer get details wrong in his dev diaries

> Have your lead fucking designer defend mixing things up as him having several playtest versions jumbled in his head and expect players to trust the final product being airtight

>have lead fucking designer admit that they screwed up an entire faction and need to re-tool it

>release theme forces that conveniently apply patches to shitty models in exactly the same way pretty much every player told you was necessary to begin with

> Shut down the forums so you don't need to listen to anyone telling you your shitty game is shitty

> Have the radical idea to actually include real players in playtests, make new boards for this purpose

> Ignore all feedback from players on new test boards

>>53333393
Which DEF 17 infantry are you talking about? Not that it matters because there were a zillion ways to circumvent high DEF. AoEs. Knockdown. Any number of cover/concealment ignoring effects. Any number of accuracy boosting effects. Any number of upkeep-removal, buff-stripping effects.

If someone in Mk2 says "Hey, I Iron Flesh these DEF 14 models" and you have no recourse whatsover? You utterly failed to make a sane list. Every faction had access to stuff to stop shit like that.

>>53333497
>"While some players enjoy the mental exercise of planning out their turn to the nearest fraction of an inch before initiating their plans, simply put this is not the game we set out to create."
-Jason Soles

If that doesn't make you run screaming from the game I don't know what will.

>>53333497
>>53333678

Best part:

>"I have been working 100% on Mk3 to make sure it's absolutely perfect"

>Release shitty art kickstarter like a month after Mk3 released

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/aeeth/apocrypha-the-art-of-jason-soles

>>53322317
Thanks for the advice. That gives me a better idea of what to expect.

Might just start with Grymkin, then, and move on from there. But I like the idea of reusing mercs. I'll have to think about it, I guess.

>>53332572
>Skorne are just so much better. Not a top tier faction, but very playable in almost any matchup
So long as you picked the right list. If you didn't, get ready to eat shit.

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Between the Wraith Engine, Siege Animantarax and Throne of Everblight, which can put out more damage in melee?

And why do Battle Engines have so few boxes compared to a Colossal? Shouldn't they have between the number of a Heavy Warjack or Colossal given they're between both size wise?

>>53334061
Every faction is sitting at "take the wrong list, eat shit." it just so happens soem factions write their lists for you, per exemplar, Cygnar and storm lances.

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>>53334298
The way I see it, a heavy Warjack is the equivalent of a main battle tank, Colossals are your crazy Nazi/Soviet five barreled super-heavy tanks, while battle engines are self-propelled artillery - vehicles designed to deliver heavy firepower but not built for front-line fighting.

This doesn't apply as well to things like the Throne, Wraith, or Meat Thresher that are designed to pulp dudes firsthand. But they're still specialized terror weapons instead of dedicated lineholders, and heavy armor detracts from the ability to strike and kill fast.

>>53281667
Anyone got hold of the Ret command book yet?

>>53333393
Listen, just because Cryx was beheaded does not mean the game is somehow "more balanced" we just have new bullshit to go along with some old crap.


IMO mkii had much more tactical depth than mkiii because power attacks and charges were more flexible. Bowling added a ton in terms of strategy, for example

>>53335539
>Bowling added a ton in terms of strategy, for example

I agree, but I don't miss it. Playing a midline high def caster was pretty infuriating. My favorite caster is Ashlynn and any time I moved up, even on feat turn, I was always worrying somebody would catch on and just kill her with a throw, and there would be almost nothing I could do to stop it.

>>53334298

Against a single target, likely the SA. It gets 1 POW 18 charge, followed by 3 bought POW 18s, 2 POW 11s from the spears, 1 POW 15 from the mount, and it can shoot it's guns in the same turn so 2-4 POW 13-15s.

Throne annihilates infantry, however.

>>53333222
>I disagree that the game was broken.

Are you a cryxfag? Cryxfags never had a problem playing against other Cryxfags.

I can't believe people think mk3 has better balance. In mk2 there were a few dominating lists that were unfair but beatable with enough buttclenching and a bit of tech. But there were also tons of people having moderate success with their niche theorycrafted lists. Now each faction can field two optimal lists that are about on even ground but trying to play anything else feels like banging your head against a wall. Also mk3 is definitely not casual oriented. They removed nearly all immersion and shenanigans in favour of tournament reliability and this shits all over casual players making their games significantly less fun.

>>53335539
Charging your models for 3" additional inches and throwing your shit over DEF 20 casters to kill them isn't tactical, it's fucking bullshit.

And so was the fact that the average Warmachine army had one actual warmachine in it's list, while the Hordes players could shove as many heavies into their lists as they wanted.

Fuck mk2, nostalgiafags. It was fucking awful for everyone who wasn't on Cryx or Trolls.

>>53337263
>I can't believe people think mk3 has better balance

You literally had to include a cryx-drop or lose, no matter what faction you play. Fuck you.

>>53337282
I agree that charging this way was bullshit. It was a good riddance. But throwing your own models added a layer of tactical depth and should have been better addressed than removing it altogether such as by making it simply easier to dodge. And most armies fielded two warjacks not one and full jack lists were also a thing.

>>53337295
I would take having to bring one anti infantry lists over invalidating 90% of non optimal lists.

>>53337368
>full jack lists were also a thing.

They definitely weren't or otherwise Harkevich or Amon had seen play in mk2.

>>53337282
I miss throwing your own dudes. I really miss power attacks in general. I think if the other guy is all juiced up on magical dodge-buffs, just chucking a tank at him is a decent solution. If you wanna counter it, get something that gives you Steady/block the vector.

>>53333726
Still can't believe people paid for stuff he pulled out of a garbage can.

>>53337808
I miss that too. And handholding. And pushing things into water. And killing your own jack to prevent an assasination line. And having to consider terror during list building and then on the table (never played it but liked the mental exercise of facing it).

>>53337263
>I can't believe people think mk3 has better balance.

You're a retard, then.

In mk2 there were entire factions that were almost unplayable.

>>53333678
I love watching people sperging out about these comments because I couldn't agree with him more. Proxymachine is a fucking plague on the game and I'm thrilled to see it die.

>>53333554
>Which DEF 17 infantry are you talking about? Not that it matters because there were a zillion ways to circumvent high DEF. AoEs. Knockdown. Any number of cover/concealment ignoring effects. Any number of accuracy boosting effects. Any number of upkeep-removal, buff-stripping effects.

AOEs scatter and hit 2 guys, Knockdown still requires hitting and you are right about accuracy buffs.

But the end result is that an accuracy buff becomes a REQUIREMENT. Stripping becomes a REQUIREMENT.
That's not good list building you shithead.

Suddenly!

>Yes. The advantage is our blood magic allows to heal. One of my favorite match ups were I've learned to utilize this is with Dominair Rasheth vs any Haley from cygnar. I use high armour and shields with four or five Titans. They waste a feat or a turn taking ten minutes to do like 18 damage to a titan sentry's only to have me heal 7-10 damage off of it on my turn. Lol
>Another aspect of the blood magic advantage over warjacks is against menoth. Thraxus a menoyh caster is essentially 5 skorne casters put together. All their jacks are immune to being targeted and have like mat 9. There that powerful up front, till you blow the arms off or cripple it's movement and burn any mechanics to death. If you cripple menoths jacks then you have a chance all the sudden, they can't heal that damage. You can spend all your fury to heal a high armour war beast and ruin everything they did to you last turn. Blood magic vs time magic Rasheth vs Haley.

Hello friends does anyone happen to have the week 3 SR17 PDF?

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>>53339897

>>53337282
I never once threw a model, bevause why would you move your def20 caster up without screening it? Thats why I always slammed (mostly my own model in the back) ftw.

Also your being disengenuous if you're suggesting that only cryx and trolls used these tactics when every faction had an opportunity for these kinds of shenanigans. Cygnar, legion, butchers and circle were also pretty powerful in mkii, especially in the later releases.

>>53337295
Yeah nothing like that exsists now, hmmm?

>>53338007
*peeled off the side of the freeway and spraypainted black
FTFY

Do we know why DC left? Maybe it was due to the rotting carcass smell emanating from Soles' office.

Also, why did Ed Bourelle leave? They haven't announced the new creative director, even with the "focus on fluff" they've been pushing.

>>53340215
>Yeah nothing like that exsists now, hmmm?
Nothing in mk3 is close to as oppressive as mk2 Cryx.

There are (debatable) staples, like Storm Lance Cygnar, Circle Goodstuff and Khador "muh rocketeers", but none of these are close to dominating. You see them all the time, but we haven't seen pure domination of something ever since Una2 got hammered.

In fact, isn't Legion recently on the uprise? Ever since their theme came out, Legion players have been crushing tournaments (and puss, most likely). And Retribution won something too. Also Convergence, who are secretly just broken, but nobody knows.

Actually, the one thing everyone is worried about (Menoth jacks with Amon) hasn't been doing well at all.

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>>53338625
Proxymachine sucks, but his shitty attitude makes him sound like the boss from Grandmas Boy. He struggles to find a way to convey his thoughts without coming across like a condescending, insecure prick, and that rubs most reasonable people the wrong way.

>>53340519
>Convergence, who are secretly just broken

I still can't come up with a cohesive reason as to WHY they're broken. None of their shit has been changed.

>>53340662
Power up? More warjack points?

>>53340662
Best freaking design. They where designed last edition with the express intent of being the best designed faction.

Now that tons of the broken stuff has gone away, they are left the best designed faction still.

>>53340788
they don't have powerup. they have Induction, which is good but is a heck of a replacement for each 'jack starting with a focus. in fact,
I just realised that a lot of my earliest-lost games were lost because I wasn't paying attention to how debuffs and their ranges worked. and their warcasters were largely unchanged, as far as I can tell as someone who started like the week after MK3 dropped.

>>53338625

I've decided that I like him, although he makes my fun pain. And he's wrong about proxy-machine, it was on him to make that shit *not work for people*.

I kind of think they pulled that off somewhat with the new scenario package making warcasters less susceptible to being offered up to assassination and scenario play being deathclock bait, but it wouldn't be PP if they didn't measure once and cut twice.

>>53340662
A lot of their shit indirectly changed for the worse. Synergy capping at 3 and mag hold no longer stopping charges neutered Syntherion.

>>53340559
Oh for sure, he's terrible at talking to customers and they need to stop letting him do it. He's not necessarily bad at what he does he's just bad at communicating his thoughts.

>>53341573
He's also the shit for brains who shields his Gun Carriages with Infantry and then triumphantly states that they survive the whole game!

>>53338625
Yeah, Proxymachine is really the thing that killed the game. Totally.

I think no matter whether you loved or hated Mk3 - this game is not in a healthy place anymore and PP's competitors are moving way faster. I hate to admit it but even GW is smart enough to start realizing what their core strengths are and making the game a bit more attractive to entice new players with low-model-count skirmish modes and all that.

PP, though? They're too slow to react to their fanbase moving to other games, and when they do react they seem to pick the option that pisses off the few people still playing their game. The whole proxymachine thing is a logical consequence of adding premeasuring to a game where precision matters and literally anyone who actually played the game tried to warn PP that it was going to happen. And frankly, if you're intimidated by your oppponent using that information to stay out of threat then you are playing the wrong game. Or you were, anyway. Fuck knows who PP thinks is their core audience anymore.

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>>53336279

Does the Siege Animantarax have any utility with Mordikaar and Despoiler then?

Seems like it would be worth it to take advantage of Dark Shroud if the Animantarax is going in the same direction as Despoiler and whatever Battle Group he's with.

Plus you can hide an Extoller Soulward behind the Animantarax's Large Base as it's moving up couldn't you?

>>53341573
He is bad, though. He's bad at communicating shit because he is outright lying about how much effort goes into things - he makes shit up on the fly based on what his "vision" is and then playtesters have to correct him because anyone who actually plays the game knows it doesn't work like that.

You can't claim to spend 3 years testing a new edition, then turn around and need to fix entire factions. If you do, you are bad at your job.

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>>53298084

A, it's technically been done with the Mammoth and Siege Animantarax.

Plus, I believe one of the concept arts for the Skorne depicts a warbeast as of yet unseen on the table that has a gun battery on it's back.

>>53341201
>and mag hold no longer stopping charges

This is the real reason I think pros do so well with CoC. Half the people can't remember, or never bothered to learn, what their cards say.

>>53341982
Man the game sure had much more neat stuff in its Developmental D&D stage. Not everything had to slot into the war.

But it was also much more one sided with the conflict being even more black and white.

>>53342207
What did I miss about Mag Hold?

>>53342458
SPD debuffs no longer prevent charges. At least last time I looked the rulebook over.

>>53341982
I want more dinosaurs in Skorne.

>>53341982
That isn't actually unknown. That was the original Mammoth design before it got changed to look like a large titan. I don't know why they didn't keep the design in your picture. It looks much more appropriate for a gun-platform dude than the Mammoth we have now.

>>53342628

They'd still have to modify the number of cannons on the original iteration's back wouldn't they?

Otherwise it might be an OP number of ranged attacks given there are at least 9 cannons on that battery in the image.

Also, they might bring it back as the third Skorne Gargantuan

>>53312405

>First of all, Harkevich is a Jack caster. All of his Spells and abilities relate to Warjacks and he doesn't do anything for the rest of his Army. If you play Harkevich, you play him for the jacks. And by that I mean the list should be ALL JACKS or as close to ALL JACKS as possible.

How does he compare versus Karchev then, aside from his emphasis on ranged Warjacks?

And which does Harkevich want more, regular Warjacks or Colossals?

>>53342458
It specifies that it prevents charges, slams, and tramples.

>>53342843
This is a weird one, but basically, Karchev brings a brick of jacks that counter-charges anything that moves too close.

Road to War is a movement tool to get you into position and once you feat, shit gets real and you'll be dealing absurds amounts of damage to your opponent.


Harkevich focuses on mobility, by giving you a feat with free Tramples and Slam, a spell that speeds up your entire force with pathfinder and lastly, Reposition 3 as a Field Marshall.

Broadside is generally regarded as not worth building around, but it can be used as an expensive reload in a pinch or to abuse Demolisher shenanigans.

Karchev is more offensive, with a spd increase that extends threat, a damage spike feat, counter-charge and of course, the ability to be a heavy himself.

Harkevich is all about abusing Reposition 3" with Kodiak clouds to hide your army behind than then getting the alpha with free charges and +3 Armor, to prevent the opponent from retaliating.

Ever since the nerf, Harkevich is generally seen as the better jack skewer between the two.

>>53341712
>All this projecting

I'm not intimidated by anything, proxymachine is retarded because it's boring as shit. Go play a grid game if you want to jack off to your precision planning. Everybody loves to claim the game is dying but the numbers for 2016 put them in the same spot they've always had in sales.

MAGNETIC HOLD 3 8 – – UP YES
Target model/unit suffers –2 SPD and DEF and cannot charge or
make slam or trample power attacks. Friendly Faction construct
models charging an affected model gain +2˝ movement.

>Cyclops Raider needs a 9 on 3d6 to hit
>Misses
>Next turn same thing
>Misses
>Next turn same thing
>Misses
>Assassination turn he needs a 10 on 3d6 to hit
>Misses

My fucking god it just keeps on reminding me that other factions have much better shooting lights.

>>53295386
Rasheth in tier with CID battle engine is actually legit. I've played it, does good work.

(Makeda 2) Supreme Archdomina Makeda [+27]
- Archidon [10]
- Basilisk Krea [7]
- Molik Karn [19]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Tyrant Rhadeim [9]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Ferox (min) [12]
Praetorian Ferox (max) [20]
Praetorian Swordsmen (max) [13]
- Praetorian Swordsman Officer & Standard [4]

Heh, nice try at killing my infantry, kid.

>>53343683
Well, yeah. Use knockdown or DEF debuffs or something, man. Mortality is a helluva spell.

>>53344319
I would've but Mordikaar doesn't have any spells

>>53343683
Are you the guy from the last thread who threw a tantrum because he couldn't figure out how to beat Ghost Fleet Denny1 with Skorne? If so, your dice antics are pretty entertaining.

>>53344355
I didn't even mention the Soulwards who couldn't hit a 9 on 3d6 in that game.

>>53344355
>because he couldn't figure out how to beat Ghost Fleet Denny1
I don't know who you are talking about, but that list is one of the benchmarks of the current game.

>>53343817

>CID battle engine

Now what are those exactly?

>>53343683
>>53344374
Sometimes the dice just hate you

>>53344400
>Sometimes
It's pretty consistent at this point. I'm so used to being shit on by rolls that I probably value the Willbreaker more than I should.

How fast do Man-O-War move under Desperate Pace from a Man-O-War Kovnik?

Was looking at some of the more self sufficient infantry to use alongside Karchev and Harkevich.

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>>53295386

Didn't they recently get a solo that can allow their artillery to move slightly further?

>>53345116
>taking infantry
Just take moar jacks

>>53345187

>Just take moar jacks

Still have to have units like the battle mekaniks, the officer, the dog and the grey lord forge master don't you?

>>53345160
He's arguably more useful for his Veteran Leader and gun itself being a Rat 7, Rng 12, Pow 10, Burst Fire, Weapon Master

>>53345322
Yeah this. Suddenly Reivers become crazy and Slingers cease to be an embarassment.

>>53343683
>>53344374
I have so far choked 4/5 assassinations that involved in me rolling 5s by missing 3/4 swings.

>>53345116
Desperate Pace gives +2" movement.

>>53345515

Shame the Iron Fang Kovnik lost Shield March.

Would have made some good synergy with the new Man O War Kovnik.

>>53343359
In 2016 they had the bump from Mk3 releasing to pad the numbers.

Since then interest and sales have absolutely plummeted. SRs getting cancelled for low attendance did not happen in Mk2. Most of the store owners I know are heavily reducing shelf space for the game as well.

>>53345718
>Since then interest and sales have absolutely plummeted.
Source?

>>53345718
funnily enough, my store just added 3-5 new people as regulars to our roster and are expanding their shelf space, cutting into their X-Wing space to store more Warmahordes.

I guess it just depends on your region or something, idk.

>>53345718
Well you could be objectively correct, but my store has a pretty large chunk set for Warmahordes and it hasn't been reduced despite X wing presence.

>>53345718
Any source at all for this? Anecdotes don't count for shit.

>>53345927
>>53345964
In the northeast US we used to have one of any of the 6-7 stores nearby with a big WMH presence running packed 50pt SRs nearly every week. To the point where they had to actively coordinate not running on the same day, routinely getting at least 15 and at times upwards of 20 players.

Now I see maybe an event per month, most stores cutting space for it, and often those events get cut at the last minute because only 3 or 4 people showed up for it. I asked the owner of the store that had the most populated group if they were gonna run the new narrative league and he just laughed.

Talking to owners the general sense I got was that while Mk3's release (and the end of the free rider program) hyped them up quite a bit, sales fell way below expectations and when PP pretty much announced that they needed heavy errata/ CID to fix the game it killed most confidence in the product. So while they waited out PP making Mk3 what they said it was going to be, people tried different games and just kinda didn't go back. GB seems to be a huge hit around here with a bunch of other random games picking up a little steam that probably would never even have a chance of getting a foothold without PP shitting the bed. WoK, Arena Rex, Bushido and a bunch of other skirmish games seem to be surprisingly successful around here for some reason. At my current store they do GB twice a week and get more players than Warmahordes night ever did even at the end of Mk2 (though not quite SR level).

>>53346093
So in short you don't have any actual proof and just have some anecdotal evidence

>>53346082
>>53345927
Even without hard data it doesn't seem insane to infer that the game is not doing as well as it was at the height of its popularity. PP wouldn't have rushed Mk3 out the door, then admitted they needed CID like a year later if they were doing well.

There is one "pro" warmachine player in the area who will literally drive to other states just to get an SR in, and he's constantly complaining how the scene is pretty much dried up. SRs are typically less than 10 people 3-4 of which is just him and whichever friends he brought to it.

>>53344382
I can' believe cryxfags have the nerves to complain while having access to the best caster in the game.

How does Molten Metal interact with a Colossal? Does it just do one point across one grid, or both R and L?

>>53334298
The Battle Engine CID has been mostly about improving the survivability of the BEs to a large degree. As to your question: Pre-CID, probably the Siege Animantarax. Post-CID, absolutely the Siege Animantarax.

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>>53346664
Rules Clarification : Molten Metal
This spell always does 6 damage, but applying that damage can get a little complex:
Vs a Retribution warjack with, say, 3 boxes left on its forcefield: Deal 3 points of damage to the forcefield, then 1 to columns 4,5,6.
Vs a normal warjack with column 1 already filled in, then the damage "rolls over" to column 2. So 2 points of damage to column 2, then 1 each to columns 3 to 6.
Vs a colossal: It can only affect one damage grid. So it will only do 6 damage, not 12.

>>53345343
Being able to passively buff those units and act as a solo/ua hunter is a solid deal for his price.

>>53346849
That's kind of a disappointment. Still a useful spell to knock out a system.

>>53346848

>Post-CID, absolutely the Siege Animantarax.

Is the Animantarax a good demonstration of the "Counter Punch" mentality Skorne are supposed to exhibit?

I notice if you damage it, but fail to kill it, you have a very dangerous Large Base on your hands.

And an it solo a Colossal or Gargantuan or put one on half boxes by the time it gets done swinging at full tokens?

>>53347116
Well, NOW it seems to be. It was pretty shit when it came out, but now it's pretty fucking fast, and should have a good number of rage tokens on it already from Beast Handlers. If you don't kill it, it's gonna run wild on you.

Do Pureblood warpwolves HAVE to be white? I don't want to paint white, but I want them recognizable on the table.

>>53347663
Purebloods are armored right?
I think that would serve as a distinction

>>53347663
IIRC, fluff-wise, yes. If you want to make them distinctive, use the old metal howling model and make sure they're different from your other warpwolves.