Trying for a more streamlined opening post.
Previous thread >>44718237
I'm currently working through the Geist 2e Manifestations, creating one Unlock for each Manifestation and Key combination. Soon I should also have a playable 2e base Sin-eater template, including updated 2e versions of their innate powers.
Do I think it WILL happen? Not really.
Do I think that it's possible that it might happen? Sure. It's very nearly done. All that's required for an early-February release is the remaining steps going smoothly.
Are we on this again?
Apparently, layout is waiting on the approved text. How long approval takes is unpredictable as we don't have a lot of data points for White Wolf approvals yet and it depends entirely on what's in the book, but unless they find something really objectionable and throw it back in DaveB's face it shouldn't take too long.
Layout consists of the layouter making a proof, sending it to DaveB to look through, and repeating it until both think it's good. How long this takes is tough to predict - Werewolf seemed to take a bit under a month, going by Monday Meeting posts? Maybe?
After the book is done, it gets sent to dtrpg, where it takes a while for it to be put up. I think a week or two is usual?
Advance pdf in January is a pipe dream. February is optimistic. GenCon or later release meme is just as unrealistic as those two.
As someone who would constantly say "GenCon or later", that term's just for hedging our bets. The text's at White Wolf, and final layout is getting ready. February looks highly likely, and unless Dracula decides he needs to go LARPing in an underground bunker for two months or keeps sending the text back with "needs more pshhhhh" or something, we're bound to get it by the end of Spring.
April feels a bit pessimistic to me, but who knows.
I'm just tired of all the "February 9001 AD" bullshit. Yes, it was announced for 2014. I get it. It's old. Have a picture of a Thyrsus or something instead.
Awakening 2e, I officially wrote the Introduction, the core rules chapter (Attributes, Skills, Combat, etc), and the spellcasting flowchart. In other words, the really boring bits to write.
Unofficially, Developers tend to rewrite a lot of their books, (some more than others), and from experience of the other side of it I'd say I turned out to be one of the heavier "I'll fix that myself in post" Devs, which is no reflection on my writers but more on my relative inexperience back when I outlined the book. And Mage has been playtested more than many of our other games are, with the changes happening in my Dev pass.
Signs of Sorcery, I'm writing the introduction.
So, as has been pointed out, Awakening 2e has been in progress for a while. A long while. An "I got approval on it's outline in 2013" while.
When we started writing it, it was going to be a fat supplement to Awakening 1. My proposal, much as makes me laugh now, even addressed the fact that it wasn't going to be a corebook because CCP didn't want one.
It changed to be a corebook before the final outline, after we'd finished Blood & Smoke. It changed title to Awakening 2nd ed just after the first draft arrived. Then it changed to refer to the new corebook instead of God-Machine, then that corebook (and the gameworld) changed when we rebranded nWoD to CofD.
The biggest time-sink, though, has been that it was outlined and contracted before the layout style of our new corebook editions settled down. So various things ended up too long or too short, requiring text to be moved about and then re-re-re-Developed. Some of the information in the Paths previews is now in the setting chapter so that the Paths would fit to splat formatting, for example. But the biggest drain has been that corebooks have two pages of fiction between each chapter, while all other books have one. Both Mage 2e and Promethean 2e were into Development by the time word on that came down, so they both had fiction roughly half as long as they needed. On Promethean, there was a writer free to do the work to change it. On Mage, I had to do it myself.
I look forward to what's going to go wrong with Deviant!
(But also, yes, a lot of "I cannot fault this rule on its writing, but when combined with this other thing in another chapter it turns out to break the game in half" adjustments.)
>The biggest time-sink, though, has been that it was outlined and contracted before the layout style of our new corebook editions settled down. So various things ended up too long or too short, requiring text to be moved about and then re-re-re-Developed. Some of the information in the Paths previews is now in the setting chapter so that the Paths would fit to splat formatting, for example.
God damn it.
The layout style of the new corebook editions is significantly worse than the old ones.
I'm not the guy who's been bitching about the issue nonstop for at least a week, but it's difficult to actually find shit in the new cores. As reference books they're significantly worse than the first edition ones, and Mage's first edition core was already notorious for shit being impossible to find.
Not him, but I had a problem with it just last night. We needed rules on breaking points and it wasn't in the integrety bookmark.
I don't know if its really the formatting or the fact that there is a lack of cheat-sheet summeries and poor bookmarking.
>It's titled Worship
>And is someone cutting a monster's head up
It's clearly a SEast Asian Faithful of Shulpae.
Ironically, I am the guy who's been bitching about it, and I actually like that Paths and Orders would be in the first chapter. That's one of the changes I've liked.
Imagine you're a writer, anon, you've submitted your work, you get the thumbs up, all's good, you're done, and then latestage development you hear they need to double the length of everything so there's a guy who's gonna pad out your stuff.
Obviously you're not being dicked over in any way and obviously it's not a criticism on you. Why be upset? It was a page's work and probably went through revision and developer commentary as-is. Maybe the finished product isn't what you would have wanted, but it's not like your name is on the actual piece and if you need it in a portfolio you can use the original draft and a short cover to explain.
Mage 2e isn't out of the door yet, so I'm going to put on my Acanthus hat and predict that Deviant doesn't even start production until June. Kickstarter comes in February or March 2017.
I couldn't figure which heading the Merits were under. Think you know it? Write your answer on the back of a postcard!
It's Triggers, because the sidebar headers throw everything off
You're getting what you were hired to write. Someone else is doing the rest.
I thought he said chunks of the Path writeup were going into a completely different chapter?
It's splitting up information like that that's one of the things that bothers me about the new cores.
Just had my players roll up their characters for my Mage game! We'll be doing our first session soon, either Sunday or next week. I've got a Moros drug dealing pharmacist, a Mastigos academic who steals books and a Obrimos radiologist who's going to concentrate on fucking with other people's spells (he's got a weaving Praxis that can change one element of a spell if he beats their successes). The Moros and the Obrimos are Free Council, with the Mastigos is Mysterium. Should be fun! It's going to be themed around espionage against the Seers.
Then I have to go to a different page to find what I want then go to that. Fanning out the bookmarks accomplishes the same thing while scrolling up and down trying to figure it out.
Also, "The first thing that says merits" is Step Six: Add Merits, because for some reason that needs to be a level two heading so that I know what order character creation is done in, even though I've never seen anyone do character creation in order.
Oh, I misunderstood. That's shit, yeah. I hate when I have to jump between two (or even three) sections to work out what I need.
>Then I have to go to a different page to find what I want then go to that.
Yes, that's how tables of contents work.
>Also, "The first thing that says merits" is Step Six: Add Merits, because for some reason that needs to be a level two heading so that I know what order character creation is done in, even though I've never seen anyone do character creation in order.
That's how we do it. Maybe your problem is you're not reading the book and just skipping from one part to another.
Also, if you go to the link in the ToC for "Step Six: Add Merits" there's a link in that section that takes you directly to the Merits section.
In this case, it's that the cool example Awakenings from the preview have moved to the part of the setting chapter where we talk about Awakenings. So it's actually... Better? For finding them.
>Yes, that's how tables of contents work.
Yes, but the bookmarks are supposed to cut that step out.
>Also, if you go to the link in the ToC for "Step Six: Add Merits" there's a link in that section that takes you directly to the Merits section.
You've now gone through three different sections of the book! You've flipped through three pages! Just to find one piece of information.
Do you not see how much of a problem this is? Do you not see how frustrating that is? Especially when there's a tool that is supposed to make that much easier, but doesn't? I'm SUPPOSED to be able to skip from one part to another. It's a reference manual.
Iunno, sounds worse. An example of an Awakening to a Path should be in the Path section. They shouldn't need to be split up just to follow some kind of format.
>This feature does not perform as intended
>Not a problem
We get it. You don't think there's anything wrong with breaking information up across several different sections. Understand that other people do find these minor inconveniences frustrating.
The table of contents performs as intended, for the most part.
The bookmarks should be changed if they're erroneous, but that's often a side effect of piracy.
If you're finding it frustrating, I'd suggest you get off of the internet and stop socializing, because turning pages is going to be the least of your issues.
Table of contents works fine, I'd suggest using that until the work is finished.
I was using the table of contents. The bookmarks are named for the same titles as the table of contents so I don't see how it makes a difference.
The problem is that I want all the info about breaking points and integrity but they are mentioned at the start of character creation, then detailed later on. Integrity and breaking points shouldn't be 20 pages apart.
Making short fiction longer is almost never a good thing. Look at Flowers for Algernon as an example.
Besides, having two different writers, with one trying to emulate the voice of the other, will most definitely end in disaster.
>that's often a side effect of piracy.
No it isn't. What?
Also? Grow the fuck up. The ToC isn't all that great to begin with, and if people not wanting to put up with extra frustrations in getting things done for their happy fun time games bothers you so much, maybe YOU should get off the internet and stop socializing, because clearly you don't understand how other human beings work.
Well ideally they'll all be writing in the same voice.
I feel like a decent editor could still make it work. I'm afraid I haven't read Flowers for Algernon, so I can't use it as a reference point. One of those high school lit books I missed out on, I guess.
This is fiction we're talking about though. Ideally, each story should have it's own voice. Unless its all the same story with recurring characters like 1e's stories.
Which reminds me, why was Gloriana a starting mage in training when she is Forces 4? I remember one bit where she's fighting indoors and her opponent mocks her for being unable to call down lightning then she says something to the effect of "i make my own lightning" and zaps him.
It was all one story broken up into ten parts, and it was all in first person narrative.
Everything anons have said here crossed my mind within the first two minutes. I didn't want to pad the original story as it would ruin its pacing and have a "voice" clash. I didn't want to throw it away and write a brand new one as we've already paid the author and they deserve to see their work in print.
So I wrote a second story in the same setting, *also* in first person but from a different character, that goes before and after the first one, the pieces of which have been combined so that they make up fewer chunks now of the right length; where in drafts the fiction was a mage telling a story to an unknown audience, the finished piece is her telling the story to someone else, who we see beforehand giving the backstory and afterward ruminating on it and talking to people who featured in her tale. Making the difference between the original author and me work to our advantage.
If it were a *third* person story, this would not have been possible. I'd have probably just gone for writing an entirely different story, also in ten parts, and have each chapter open with one page of each.
Please do continue freaking out, though.
It's a joke about an OPP forums poster who posts here on occasion. Outside thread drama.
I've always imagined that posting and talking in Basu-Im is a lot like a parent trying not to blow their lid when their kid busts up the produce section in a busy supermarket.
Don't think so. The one liner was that she creates her own lightning and doesn't have to call it down from somewhere else. Or I could be misremembering since its been 3 years since I last touched the Mage corebook.
Hey guys, one question. There are Dragons in the World of Darkness? And if there are, in what book or splat? I was looking into Changeling and Mage, but I couldn't find any.
No. They were written too late, and Mage gleefully runs end-runs around it with first-dot spells and Mage Sight.
They're not *incompatible*, though, as the Investigation rules handle the course of a whole inquiry, glossing over individual clues, while the 2e Mage Sight rules are all about deeply examining individual objects of interest.
Joining the two up - how many Clues you get per Revelation roll success or Deep Information - will be in Signs of Sorcery, once we have time to playtest it to the point that Awakening doesn't just make Investigation trivial but still retains the feeling of mages being walking CSI labs.
A dragon is more a concept than a being. Just chose your atavisms to look draconic [Dragonfire, Wings of the Raptor, Limb from Limb, That armour one and the +size one and then you've got your own smaug]. Family can be selected from what source of mythology you want to put in the forefront - primordial guadians of the underworld and Irish marshs? Natmaru. Flying furnace? Ugallu. Sea serpent? Makara. Big fuck-off 'im the boss' like... Lofwyr or whatever? Anakim.
Then just merge with your horror and or sit in your lair all day and you can eat all the maidens you want.
See, and now that sounds really interesting. I'm sure it'll at least be solid and hopefully be really good; the preponderance of short fiction is one of my favorite things about the World of Darkness and what hooked me into roleplaying in the first place.
Yea, newest one. Living nightmares and primodial mythical beasts and such.
Become incarnae or go rampant! Be all the dragon you want!
...I say this because I have a draconic Beast character in play right now. Woo.
Any gay werewolf stories lately? I haven't been in a WoD general for a bit and it's basically all I'm interested in.
Yes, Beast: the Primordial. The reason "..." went in front of it is that it has gone through a VERY CONTROVERSIAL development period, and here in particular people are very angry about one or another aspect of it. It's managed to piss off like four or five distinct factions of people in completely different and contradictory ways, but it's also pretty cool and the mechanics are fun, which is why people continue to care, probably.
The current state of the narrative is a bit, uh, schizophrenic, but basically you used to be a human with a recurring nightmare, and then Something Happened to quote King's Revival and the nightmare reversed perspective and you woke up with a nascent god-monster stuffed in where your soul used to be.
You have a Hunger that can be slaked in five broad categories that basically boil down to fucking with people on a scale that goes from harmless mischief, past outright murder, into the truly disturbing "what makes a life worth living? nothing you have left to you" category of psychological brutality.
You have a Lair, a metaphysical Astral Realm where you can be your true and monstrous self, and you can...sort of meditate in weird places (like Wyrm's Nests in Vampire) to expand your nightmare kingdom over time. You have a lot of powers split between things that push nightmare principles onto other people to fuck them up and things that manifest your true nature in typically violent, very physical ways for a moment. Becoming a monster in the real world all the time is one of a few long-term Golconda-esque goals you can have.
What else...oh, if you don't feed, you overwrite normal people into obsessive psychopaths you're expected to dispatch pretty casually, you have a TON of crossover stuff (Beasts are designed to act as weird cuckoo's egg style den mothers to other supernaturals, sort of worming their way into other groups with a supernatural "no it's okay I'm cool" effect you get inherently), and no one knows what Beasts DO.
It was first against the wall when the revolution came.
My entirely scientific polling of several long-term Mage Storytellers revealed that most people either remembered spell *control* or spell *tolerance*; 1e control is how many spells you can maintain, 1e tolerance is that a subject can only have so many spells cast on them.
2e doesn't track spell tolerance, and we made spell control have a lower limit (Gnosis instead of 1e's Gnosis +3) but allow mages to risk more paradox to go over their limit.
Check around one of those other places on the internet, maybe one of the ones that start with 7. I hear that there's a request thread there with one dead link and another labeled "its the latest" or something like that that will take you through a BREATHTAKINGLY shady pseudoEnglish file-hosting site that does actually have what you're looking for.
>No. They were written too late, and Mage gleefully runs end-runs around it with first-dot spells and Mage Sight.
Those silly mortals and their "investigations." They are so limited with their meager "science" and "intuition." The more they speak of their purported knowledge or insight, the more they demonstrate their endless ignorance.
I cannot believe there was a time before my Awakening when I too was so blind to the Truth. My soul was strong, and I pierced the Lie. I now grow increasingly tired of dealing with pitiful weaklings...
Oh well, this is not exactly what I was looking for. I was looking a Dragon, as a NPC monster, like say an antagonist creature with stat blocks. But I'll check this Beast out. Thanks, guys.
That sucks. I always wondered what happened to that guy using his twink wolf blooded to seduce someone by proxy.
Unfortunately I don't have any fresh material. Teen Wolf: The Forsaken had a very brief revival with everyone doing some flash fiction, essentially, which only ended in confirming that two years into the future, the homo OTP is still trapped in unresolved sexual tension.
It's hard out here for a gay werewolf fan.
>What else...oh, if you don't feed, you overwrite normal people into obsessive psychopaths you're expected to dispatch pretty casually, you have a TON of crossover stuff (Beasts are designed to act as weird cuckoo's egg style den mothers to other supernaturals, sort of worming their way into other groups with a supernatural "no it's okay I'm cool" effect you get inherently), and no one knows what Beasts DO
Ah, that's all changed now in the lastest drafts because of... implications. Heroes are now blessed by the primordial dream, like the beast and spontaneously appear. Being a complete bastard or mind raping you way across reality merely ATTRACTS them, rather than CREATES them. (which is far better, becuase otherwise you're saying that abuse victims shouldn't ever fight back and 'deserve' it).
What beasts 'do' is to teach 'lessons' in leiu of what you find in mythology (i.e. respect the earth, you can't escape your crimes, there are things in the dark, but you can overcome them etc.)
Beast has rules for 'god' characters (i.e. end game high level beasts, and one example charcter is an actual dragon. It also gives rules for beasts that exsist in spirit and such.
If you want the 'magical' dragon, try mage's rules for spirits and bygones.
My eternal lament is that I don't want BOTH of the Arcana in any given Path, but it's gotta be Mastigos, psychonaut or bust. Mind is so good, and while Space doesn't typically excite me in the FUCK YES way, the things it does are very, very useful (I would say that even as flexible as all the Arcana are Space probably wins out as an all-purpose problem solver) and I like having access to them.
But mostly I just want to fuck around in the Astral.
You don't need to be a Mastigos for focus on Mind or the Astral. Choose any Path you like, and then pick a Legacy with Mind as an additional Primary Arcana.
For instance, I've played an Obrimos Ascended Adept who explores Astral Truths as well as any Mastigos.
As an aside, when discussing Mage, do you ever get the feeling like every other word needs to be capitalized. It's like reading German.
The thing that keeps this from working is really the lack of Y-splat organizations interested in doing this and with codified philosophies about it. As it stands, there are all these questions, like...why are you compelled to teach, exactly, given that you used to be a person who wasn't? How are you picking your lesson plan, just out of a hat? Who's actually learning anything, given that half the time you either kill people or break them in ways they're explicitly not meawnt to stand up against? The Anakim home invader example might be theoretically interested in someone who can stop him, but he's a fucking Anakim, so someone who can stop him means he accidentally walked in on one of the Unchained. It doesn't help that the "teaching" is inherently self-gratifying and often profoundly anti-human - even worse than just being sneak-murdered by an Eshmaki is stuff like "stay in your fucking lane" or "never feel safe again ever" or "you can't have precious things, but I can." It's all hypocritical schizo nonsense, and it doesn't seem to be DELIBERATELY so, unlike, say, Vampire, which handles all the metaphysical justifications and philosophies really well by having them call each other out as a bunch of ravenous two-faced pieces of shit who just want a framework to hang the tatters of their humanity on as they slurp their way across decades and centuries.
Beast really, really, really needs Y-splats to provide some fucking direction. What do you think would be some good angles for fanwritten ones?
>Joining the two up - how many Clues you get per Revelation roll success or Deep Information - will be in Signs of Sorcery
Interesting, don't think you spoiled the names of Scrutiny and it's many faces yet. Sounds cool!
I really like the investigation mechanics, so good luck on integrating them in SoS.
My personality is that I awaken to the Path that contains the Arcana I like. Which happens to be a pretty Mastigos attitude, ayyyyyyy
Granted, but Mastigos are better than other Paths by flavor. I'd rather just steal Prime or Death than have to give up the Devil Tarot.
Seriously it's a fucking godsend. Hunter had it, but it could be a little wonky at times, and now it's all updated, "full-featured" rather than just a power grab-bag (even if that is most of it, and right in the fucking core. Glorious.
Though doesn't that just mean mages can get around mundane investigations? For instance, how many supernatural things will be harder to scrutinize with mage sight and first dot spells? I love the idea of mages initially thinking they can now access all knowledge only to immediately run up against the walls of cosmic horrors man was not meant to know.
>so someone who can stop him means he accidentally walked in on one of the Unchained.
And if he threatened the one they care about, and the Unchained in question was a Destroyer before they fell, someone is going to die.
The way beasts are written now the 'reason' to teach is pretty much cultural expectation. You don't have to though,a nd many don't.
I agree that they need a 'y' splat a lot though.
If you want to get mythological about things, many mythical monsters guarded something - gate to the underworld, Ladron and his golden apples, gate to god's domain etc. Thus a 'guardian' could go well for moralistic or ritualistic beasts.
Possibly a more modern 'urban legend' type splat? Like blood-mary 'call my name three times' or something, you gain powers for acting within a certain way, more so than just gaining willpower, but you HAVE to work in that particular way (Bloody mary can be sumoned in your mirror or what have you). The really -old- myths tend to have a odd duality to them - like Life and Legend, in that say, the Greek Furies/Erinyes were utterly relentless and merciless, but also would NEVER harm the innocent or rightous, and would often help and bargain with such. Probably a splat that amplifies your vice/virtue stat or something? Gain a anathema on behaviour but gain a bonus for doing something else?
So, /wodg/, I understand that True Fae are statless. Was it ever clarified if Huntsmen will be?
I ask because I'm about to run an arc involving a "council of Elrond"-esque alliance against an overpowering foe (a Mummy wakes up and decides to conquer the world), and I want one of the participants to be a Huntsman representing a True Fae.
Being as the Huntsman may show up a few times, and the PCs will definitely be shown how his mistress treats people (she's constantly attended by a choir of singing children, and the children are prevented from aging only on the outside. Think being permanently trapped in a straightjacket that tightens every day), it stands to reason they may come into conflict. Is this possible within gameplay?
If it matters, the PCs are high-level Hunters, representing mortals on the Council of Elrond.
The "lessons" shtick was hurriedly tacked-on to Beast after Matt finally realized that Beasts were little more than abusive self-deceived assholes who had no purpose.
However, as the other anon mentioned, without some greater philosophical background, usually reinforced by social groups, the "lessons" motivations seem empty or incomplete. You can only enjoyably running so many games relying on ideas like "only you can prevent forest fires" or "give a hoot don't pollute."
So what you're really playing is a malevolent entity from the Astral Realms that is possessing a human? This would be very interesting if mixed with the cover mechanic from demon, though this case involving said "cover" being the currently possessed human, and instead use spirit-like mechanics for our character.
>So, /wodg/, I understand that True Fae are statless.
They're not statless, it's just that they're so ridiculously more powerful than you that giving you their stats is pointless.
I don't see why you can't have a dragon npc as either an encounter in the Astral Realms or something sufficiency dragon-like in a supernal verge. For instance, I think one of the emanation realms in Imperial Mysteries had tree dragon hybrid spirits.
>Though doesn't that just mean mages can get around mundane investigations?
I expect that most mundane mysteries will usually not present much of a challenge to an experienced mage. However, once you Awaken, you're usually not concerned with such trivial matters as who killed Col. Mustard with the candlestick in the library. You seek Mysteries, with a capital "M," that are more esoteric, usually supernatural (although not necessarily supernal), and almost always very, very dangerous.
>For instance, I've played an Obrimos Ascended Adept who explores Astral Truths as well as any Mastigos.
That sounds very interesting. How do you actually play an ascended archmage? The only way that comes to mind might be switching between purely narrative interactions with other supernal beings at "home" and playing the avatars you send "down."
How exactly does it work when you make promises to changelings? I'm running a hunter game and am thinking that the party will take the changelings wyrd as a penalty towards actions that would break the promise, but I wasn't sure if there was any rules.
"Ascended Adept" is an Obrimos legacy, he's not talking about playing an Ascended character.
They're a Mind/Prime legacy that focuses on Astral travel. He's saying that you don't have to be a Mastigos to specialize in Mind.
It's not necessarily -possessing- you, though yu can make the argument that the 'horror' devoured your soul and in so doing, now believes itself to -be- you, and you can easily fit this into the narrative if it works.
The horror is -meant- to be something that was always a part of you, it's lietrally your soul, just bigger, dumber and hungrier. Wheteher it 'came across' you or you were born into it is up to the player and DM, really.
Someone was asking for a Beast PDF in the last thread, I have it...
the first original draft :^)
Huntsmen don't seem to fit the bill; as it stands, they're there to hunt a specific Changeling. I'd say a True Fae could be in the council in person, with the following caveats:
If the council takes place in the mortal world, the Fae is dangerously powerful, but not statless.
The Fae is very likely to have more Titles than its name, so the actual being is more than just the creature attending the council.
The "Ascended Adepts" are an Obrimos Legacy with Mind as an additional Ruling Arcanum. They are not necessarily ascended archmages.
The Legacy can be found in Tome of the Watchtowers. However, you can easily create any Path and Legacy with Mind as a Ruling Arcanum and with Attainments that focus on whatever you believe is important and necessary for your character.
As I understand it, True Fae exist as many different beings at a time, yes. So probably a manifestation of it representing an ambassador. Where would I find stats for fae in the mortal world?
Here's the advanced release PDF of Beast. I don't believe the final book with collected errata has been released, and there is significant errata.
This REALLY made me think of Demon. It must be this line
>Cover me when I run
>Cover me through the fire
>Something knocked me out ' the trees
>Now I'm on my knees
>Cover me, darling please
It's the advanced PDF copy, just like every OPP release for the last few years.
They release a "final" PDF book, solicit errata, and then release the "final, final" book which is usually also available in print. Unfortunately, the Beast book has a lot of material that needs to be corrected.
Huh? Pretty sure I remember some books having True Fae statted. It's not that they are ridiculously OP, the only place where they are basically invincible is Arcadia itself. There are plenty of True Fae who actually have Wyrd less than 5. They are considered weak by other Gentry, yes, but they do have stats and aren't unbeatable. Can't remember, maybe Autumn Nightmares of Grim Fears had a bunch of True Fae.
Get the Changeling corebook, there's an entire section on how Pledges work though I'll admit it's not easy to get at first. You can probably simplify it, but basically there are 4 main punishments for breaking the pledge:
1. Bad luck (from "no 10s again" to the severe "only 10 counts as a success on a roll")
2. The Changeling's contract will activate as soon as the pledge breaks (so you can be zapped by lightning for example)
3. Your merits get destroyed (your bank account gets compromised, your ally accidentally thinks you're an asshole, etc. It's all about the pwoer of fae magic manipulating the world)
4. Death (extremely severe and can be negated if the changeling forgives the oathbreaker)
Check page 175 for the Pledges section
>Beasts aren't possessed. They are, if you like, to Goetia as Sin-Eaters are to ghosts.
Considering Geist was one of the worst received and selling books in the nWOD/CofD, that might explain some of the problems with Beast.
Dave, didn't you hint that you might be in the running to develop Geist 2e?
>uh? Pretty sure I remember some books having True Fae statted
True Fae are statted in some of the Changeling supplements. Note they are supposed to be weaker in the material world than in Arcadia, and likely to receive a significant power bump in 2e.
Hey Dave, one of the McGuffins in my 2e Hunter game is an Artifact of "Transmute Gold" that goldifies everything it touches. Since I obviously don't have the 2e Artifact mechanics, how would that one effect (transmute inanimate object to gold on contact) work with Reach, Mana, Paradox, etc.?
No, I simultaneously hinted that I was the Dev for one of the next wave of games (which I am: Deviant) and that I know what a hypothetical Geist 2e would be about. Which I do, as I read the pitch and know the person who would be Dev in the event of it getting approved.
Dave can develop both. It's not unusual for some developers to run multiple game lines, and since Geist 2e hasn't even been announced, the corebooks probably will not even overlap.
>So what you're really playing is a malevolent entity from the Astral Realms that is possessing a human?
No. You always felt like an outsider, somehow not in tune with the rest of your peers who were so comfortable with their genitals matching teir mindset, until one day you discovered the term genderfluid online and suddenly you realised who you truly are and anyone who doesn't like it is going to get their head bitten off.
Except instead of being trans you were actually born with a sleeping dragon/slaad/unicorn/etc. instead of a soul, instead of finding reddit you were raped by a nightmare that awoke the monster, and instead of biting people's heads off you....well that one pretty much holds.
Yeah I know, that's what I meant. They are only invincible in Arcadia, and if you need to go there you are already not going to have a good time. both in the Hedge and in the mortal world they are way weaker and have stats.
All he said when asked how he would develop Geist was "ask me after GenCon", which seemed to be an oblique hint to him being announced as the developer for Deviant.
It seems, however, that there IS someone who may be developing Geist 2e and has ideas about it, as David Hill mentioned in an earlier thread. As there is no official annoucement for a Geist 2e and there probably won't be one for a while, we'll see if that person actually becomes Geist 2e's developer.
You're a victim of some sacrifical rite or science experiment, and now you're pissed. You we the virgin sacrifice and you responded by punching the head cultists in the face. Or something. Body horror, science and wibbly stuff.
Maybe I'm being retarded, but where is the Beast version of this in the book?
I'd really really like a Geist that wasn't lame incoherent bullshit, so count me as cautiously optimistic for Geist 2e. The concepts behind Geist were good, but the execution was incredibly wonky.
I did, actually, offer to co-Develop Geist (assuming it happens) the way Matt and Rose share Demon, but Rich asked me to do Deviant instead.
The next game, which hasn't started writing yet. It's slightly ahead of where Hunter 2e is at the moment - we have a detailed pitch and a lot of ideas that are turning into specific mechanics.
It's about people who have been altered into being supernatural creatures by human action - sometimes their own, sometimes other people, sometimes voluntarily, often not - who are on the run from, and fighting against, the human conspiracies that created or seek to acquire them.
In gothic lit terms, it's the Jekyll and Hyde and Invisible Man game, but it's influenced by tv shows like Sense8, Dollhouse, Dark Angel, and Orphan Black, the movies of Cronenburg, and lots of J-Horror like The Iron Man and Guyver.
>What is "Deviant?"
It's the next scheduled major game line release from WW, and DaveB is the developer.
You play a human being changed by an corporation/cult/etc., escape, and now seek vengeance on you tormentors.
It's basically David Cronenberg meets the CofD.
Well hot damn, that's exciting news! Here's hoping it does get approved. Now time to go to my corkboard and string wall and attempt to tin foil who this theoretical developer might be.
I, for one, would fully support DaveB as our new WW developer overlord, handling as many WW lines as is (in)humanly possible with just one simple caveat - nothing may take any time or attention away from Mage 2e.
I am now convinced that Bill Cipher is a Psychopomp who hit the Fallen World so hard he fell through it and landed in a Lower Depths without Prime.
>I, for one, would fully support DaveB as our new WW developer overlord, handling as many WW lines as is (in)humanly possible with just one simple caveat - nothing may take any time or attention away from m̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶2̶e̶ updating The Man Comes Around.
>Given their instinctive connection to the Primordial Pathways, Beasts are capable of opening otherworldly gateways they come across. Whether it’s a secret door to the Hedge, an Avernian Gate to the Underworld, or a verge into the Shadow, a Beast can make use of any gateway.
I think the former is better for backstory and what a character does, and yours is better for what the aesthetic is. I'm just going to say this again, though: if I cannot re-enact the last few minutes of Scanners in Deviant, it's dead to me, ya hear me? Dead!
>The changes needed for archmages are probably less words than the ones needed for the Mad. I'll likely get to them eventually on the blog.
I personally would love to see updated archmages before conversions of a lot of the old legacies.
Didn't someone get a hold of a open development pdf about huntsmen? I didn't pay attention when it was going around and now i really wanna read it, if anyone has it or a link. I can't find it on the OPP blog.
I have a lesbian werewolf in my upcoming game. She tried to kill the popular girl in high school during her First Change, but ended up saving her from Scarecrow and she's now the young Bone Shadow's Wolfblooded. They might bang.
>So, /wodg/, I understand that True Fae are statless.
Actually they're not, they're in Equinox Road. There's even a game where everyone is True Fae dicking each other over.
Huntsmen just got their write up released. They're basically Mr Meeseeks created by jealous pissed off Fae who want their toys back. And probably forget immediately afterwards.
Check the latest Changeling DevBlog.
>Implying Geist 2e is getting a developer
This excites and frightens me. I wonder if I should bother with this Geist 2e homebrew, or if it's coming way too late...
Then again even under the best circumstances I don't expect Geist 2e before 2018.
Geist was really well received and got a lot of praise. In retrospect I'm wondering if they just gave all new WW books accolades, but still.
What does that even mean, Dave.
Not on the dev blog yet. Some one already linked the file but it came from this OPP thread: http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/changeling-the-lost/805704-meet-the-huntsmen
How was Geist incoherent? It was perfectly coherent, just directionless with bad mechanics. But if you are interested, by the end of the night I should have a playable Sin-eater template (not powers) for 2e. Because I'm clearly not going to be able to sleep since people keep fucking calling me.
Demons literally can do that shit better than Beasts, because they can straight punch a hole in reality. They can go bodily into the Temenos. That doesn't even make any fucking sense.
I told myself I wouldn't cry.
It would be a breach of your contract to update your Actual Play for money?
>It's at the point now that Jon (he plays Cowl) has offered to *pay* me to update that thread. Which, sadly, would be in breach of my contrac
What would be a breach of your contract, updating the AP or doing it for profit?
Absent breaches of NDA's, I cannot imagine why OP or Paradox would not want more mage material from the developer. It's basically free advertising.
Wouldn't Chise be more like a Demon?
Though then again even at her very, very lowest power levels, literally first episode, she's already got abilities that shit all over Processes (and Embeds, and Exploits). I get the feeling even Destroyer demons weren't actually meant to fight in WARS. The most powerful conventional weapon on the list (Eliminator Cannon with Hellfire) is frankly downright pathetic compared to most anything modern day armies would put on a vehicle (or even some things they'd give troopers), Rain of Fire is still completely eclipsed in its potential for widespread destruction by even very weak ordnance and there's no combination of Form Abilities that could make a demon anywhere NEAR a match for a fighter plan in a straight up fight.
Late series Chise... Likely beyond stats. Girl can casually blow up planets and create matter from nothing. We're talking high ranking spirits, archangels and shit.
Do Actual Plays explain those?
I still haven't read it
Probably true. I've got the main thing broken up into other non-public Docs at the moment. I'm mostly going through the Manifestations and creating one Unlock per Manifestation at the moment. Bit tripped up on some of them, but I've got all the Boneyard other than Stigmata/Primeval/Stillness. Bit iffy on whether the Stygian Boneyard should create the Underworld Gate Condition, and what that entails.
And also becomes the last living thing in existence--if you can call what she has life--and destroys the world while her boyfriend stays alive inside of her for all eternity, unchanging and unaging as the world outside of your cold fleshy metal hull experiences nuclear winter and suffers your wrath for it's hubris and man's inhumanity towards man.
Yeah, but again... do Actual Plays explain those? He's been playing a version of 2e for a while now. Plus, I thought it was up to him how much he spoils, at least that seemed to be the point behind Open Dev.
Doing it for profit. They would give no shits if I updated it (hell, many of them read it) - and it's many, many recaps to go before 2e's rules stabilize and get spoiley. The recaps are currently at the "we were playtesting GMC" point.
>And also becomes the last living thing in existence--if you can call what she has life--and destroys the world while her boyfriend stays alive inside of her for all eternity, unchanging and unaging as the world outside of your cold fleshy metal hull experiences nuclear winter and suffers your wrath for it's hubris and man's inhumanity towards man.
That is if you choose to interpret the ending literally rather than as Seiji's dying hallucination/a happy illusion granted to him by Chise while she euthanizes the world.
That said, I would like to be able to play Chise in Deviant. Heck, now that I think about it, when you deal with the higher levels of "Experimental Superweapon/Supersoldier Gone Wrong/Rogue", fighting and defeating the military is a genre STAPLE. I'll be very disappointed if there aren't at least token rules for shit like taking out entire battalions, throwing tanks in the air, dogfighting jets and surviving drone strikes. Whether or not you get to actually do the striking with biomechanical cyborg missiles.
>That is if you choose to interpret the ending literally rather than as Seiji's dying hallucination/a happy illusion granted to him by Chise while she euthanizes the world.
Why wouldn't you? Chise is clearly insanely powerful, and I wouldn't call "mass human extinction and an eternal static existence" a happy ending.
Has writing actually started on Tome of the Pentacle and are any other Mage 2e books in the pipeline whose titles have not been released.
Now that the release of the Mage 2e core actaully seems within reach, and the Paradox situation has been resolved, I'm starting to get a little greedy and hope to see a lot of Mage books in 2016. I'm sure OPP also wouldn't mind taking my money or you earning some extra cash.
Yeah, they do. It's all about if the Changeling can rope a mortal into making a promise, no matter how ridiculous or unreasonable it is. The Wyrd can then just say "yup, that's a pledge since there's a changeling present" and bind a human, without him even realizing that there is a pledge at all. That's why this is a Clarity (kinda like Morality) breaking point on higher levels.
Sorry, should have clarified: It is completely possible to make a real, official pledge without the official full pledge making. You basically get someone to make a promise and then it will become a real pledge. It's just that the punishment/duration/etc of the pledge will be detemined by the Wyrd (think of it as Fate that manipulates everything and everyone).
Say a human says "I promise to protect you" to a Changeling. The Changeling decides to use this to her advantage and bind the human in a pledge. If the human breaks a pledge, the Wyrd might punish him by giving him a derangement like sociopathy or possible give him an illness so that his body is punished for no protecting the changeling. Stuff like that, it is often very thematic and ties into the promise itself.
Geist 2e Homebrew Question:
How do you all feel about the Silent? I feel like as written they're not very proactive in doing stuff. The core version has the Silent as people who are a) quiet, and b) want stuff. The first one is fine, but leads to characters who don't do much, while the second is better covered under Bonepicker as a Casket (the Sin-eater version of Dirge or Bone).
Actually, how do you guys feel about the original Thresholds as a whole? I've already tweaked the Torn to be more iconoclastic and outgoing. They're basically like the Carthians: loud firebrands who want change, mostly because they've experienced violence and abuse firsthand. I'm also channeling the folks at the Last Round in Bloodlines, pic related.
Prey also will probably need some kind of tweaking. I personally have never really liked their whole "patterns" thing. It feels more like something the Forgotten would focus on, and is classic Gambler's Fallacy. I want to make them feel more naturalistic, less shamanistic. Survivalists, not hippies.
I mean the "everything happens for a reason, MAN" sort of hippies. In the corebook the Prey are all about looking for patterns. It doesn't really fit all that well with "death by natural means". Sure, nature has patterns, but not "See? The rocks fell and broke his bones the same way they broke hers... and his. Every time. Every time, a pattern." Which is the quote for Prey.
I just had an opportunity to more fully review the Demon Storyteller's Guide. The crossover sections were excellent.
I really liked the part involving the Seers of the Throne on p. 130. If you want the GM to be an Exarch or in league with them, it certainly supports that belief.
"The activities of the Seers of the Throne often resemble God-Machine projects. Occasionally too frequently for it to be an accident — a Seer will actively assist a God-Machine cult in the construction or defense of Infrastructure. It isn’t clear whether the God-Machine contracts these mages’ services as needed through Its usual intermediaries, or whether It has entered into some kind of alliance with their Exarch masters."
So I'm building a blood bather character for a mixed game.
I'm really tempted to build it so that I have 12 strength, so I can lift a wrecking ball and toss cars.
But I could also just end up with 7 strength and 7 stamina, which would mean 12 health boxes. If I just focused on having 12 strength, I'd have 7 health boxes, which is about average. The blood bather can regenerate and return from death (so long as the body is mostly intact).
What do you guys recommend?
He didn't watch it when I suggested it, but he either got around to it or read the Wikipedia summary and agreed that it fits.
Probably the second, because apparently it got more episodes than I remember.
I wonder what everyone else wants to see in terms of 2e supplements. I don't even know what I want, since the only thing I can think of is rules for artifacts and perfected materials to flesh out the power smiths but thats already coming in SoS.
In light of the new Summoning Attainments and the fact that the Supernal World of 2e is a lot more pervasive and accessible than the Supernal Realm focus of 1e, I would like to see an update to Summoners. The book was great, and there's no doubt there's ample room for more material.
Ugh. Seriously, I kind of hate the original Sin-eater Thresholds now.
Reading over them, the attitudes and themes so rarely fit with the actual Threshold.
Quick. Without looking it up, tell me what you think these Thresholds' attitudes should be like:
Torn (Death by Violence, The Bleeding Ones, Victims of Malice, Marked by Murder and Conflict, Chosen of the Red Horseman)
Silent (Death by Deprivation, The Starved Ones, Victims of Neglect, Marked by Starvation and Need, Chosen of the Black Horseman)
Stricken (Death by Pestilence, The Ravaged Ones, Victims of Plague, Marked by Poison, Virus, and Bacterium, Chosen of the White Horseman)
Prey (Death by Nature, The Eaten and the Drowned Ones, Victims of the Elements, Marked by Claw, Wave, and Earth, Chosen of the Pale Horseman)
Forgotten (Death by Chance, The Lightning-Struck, Victims of Misfortune, Marked by Fate's Injustice, Chosen of the Gray Horseman)
Just by the titles and what they died from, how do you think they'd act?
The Hedge is BAD NEWS for Mages.
Space Magic cannot transport you outside of it, the thorns tear at your soul which damages your Magic, any sight spell has a dice pool capped at your Wisdom.
Within it Mages, are disturbingly fragile and without a Changeling to guide them or sufficient knowledge of Fate Magic, they may be just as lost as any Sleeper.
There are also few benefits from it.
Aside from getting Arcane Beats/Experience from learning of its existence, and of certain things within it, the actual items themselves are woefully inferior compared to what Mages could create should they put their minds to it, or bargain for from the Consilium or their Order.
Plus you're wandering into a location full of crazy Fey God-beings who want to drag you off and turn you into one of these charming fellows.
>Plus you're wandering into a location full of crazy Fey God-beings who want to drag you off and turn you into one of these charming fellows.
>summon iron bullets
>slaughter anything that tries to fuck with you
Well sure, load up on iron bullets, grab your Freedom Stick, and wander in with a small party of people willing to shoot anything that moves.
Even then the question is still why?
What could you possibly hope to gain from entering the Hedge.
Every problem the Hedge poses has somewhat of a countermeasure, however the question of your reason for entering still exists.
Almost everything the Hedge offers can be provided for you by your own power, or another Mage.
Cold iron is just a fanciful thing, any iron that is hand-worked is cold iron, the only thing that doesn't count is mass produced or machined iron. If it's hand-made AND beaten into shape with nothing but raw muscle and like...a hammer, it has the added bonus of doing aggravated to the others.
That's all likely to change in Changeling 2e. DaveB doesn't like to support (or really doesn't have room in his books to support) crossover, particularly with Changeling after the grief of the Changeling Arcadia vs. Supernal Arcadia debates. He's even explicitly stating they aren't the same place in Mage 2e.
Similarly, DavidH is not keen to deal with Awakened mages in Changeling 2e for the same reasons as DaveB, and recently stated he doesn't even see why mages would even want to enter the Hedge.
How and why mages and changelings and/or the Hedge interact will be largely storyteller fiat.
It breaks my heart that we could have had a Geist done by Dave, because of one major reason. Geist was lacking direction, to the point of not having, well, any. Dave has said several times that he likes mechanics that reinforce the theme. It could have been so amazing.
Well yeah, sure.
But after they've wranged a few Arcane Beats out of entering it and experiencing some of its weird power, there's no real benefit to entering the Hedge.
Which means there's no real reason to put it in any of the Mage books.
>Why is a thing from changeling not talked about in Mage?
Cold Iron isn't just iron, at least not in 1e. And summoning it definitely doesn't do anything.
It's not like there are only a handful of Arcane Beats to be had in the Hedge. You could get billions and still find new things. It's like Skyrim.
>It's like Skyrim.
But exactly like Skyrim, finding those things has no real benefit other than that experience.
Mages get many more benefits through hunting down stuff from their own cosmology, you get both Beats and stuff to actually use, like tass, or imbued items.
Pretty much any other faction gives Mages more stuff to work with.
How thematically are we supposed to be interpreting these? Are Geists supposed to learn from them and try to reject violence and conflict from experiencing them? Are they supposed to embrace them and live them fully? Or only partly?
Violent, bloody powers. Unsubtle, and mostly used to harm living beings.
Powers based on being unnoticed, or potentially invoking sensations of desperate need in others.
Plagues and resiliece and stuff
Fang, claw, fire and storm. Natural forces and their manipulation.
Fucking with luck and making improbable shit happen. Curses and boons, that kind of thing.
I think the implication of his comment is less "There are no Mysteries to be had in the Hedge" but rather coming from the position of Changeling, which as a non-Changeling certainly seems like it'd be "why the hell would you even WANT to go here if you're not 'safe' like us?"
I suppose I wasn't clear. I mean what do you think the attitudes of those X-Splats would be.
In terms of POWERS, the set up is like this:
Blood/ghosts and Emotions
Darkness/corpses and Cold-Wind
Illusions and Water/Tears
Animals and Dirt/Graves
Fire and technology
I'm talking about the attitudes, though. Like how Ventrue are domineering and egotistical, Obrimos are justice paladins, and Irakka are sneaky paranoids.
Yes... and there's several bits that talk about how pure and heat forged iron is not "cold" anymore. You can't use regular iron the way you'd use regular silver on a Werewolf.
>It breaks my heart that we could have had a Geist done by Dave, because of one major reason. Geist was lacking direction, to the point of not having, well, any. Dave has said several times that he likes mechanics that reinforce the theme. It could have been so amazing.
Both DaveB and DavidH seem more than pleased with who'll likely be the developer of Geist 2e if it's approved (although I don't believe either has identified who that person is).
Further, just because Dave might not be co-developing the line, it doesn't mean that he or other excellent writers will not be involved in the project.
It's really WAY too early to lose faith or be discouraged.
The same reason Mages go anywhere. I don't see what makes the Hedge so different from the lower depths or wherever those plane things from Summoners come from. Mages go wherever the mysteries are, safety has nothing to do with it.
He's a crazy that pops-up every once in a while and posts the same thing in many threads. His mother apparently let him out of the basement again and he's off his meds.
Just ignore him.
It's not like mages don't already have a nearly unlimited number of places to poke their noses in without official support for the Hedge. Only so much information can be squeezed in Mage and Changeling, and more pertinent material is already cluttering the cutting-room floor.
But mages DO go the Hedge. Often enough that those soulless former mage creatures populate it with relative notoriety. There were lots of reasons in 1e for mages to go to the Hedge, the biggest being a shortcut to what may or may not be Arcadia. Even if its no longer the same place in 2e, that wouldn't change how mages themselves saw the Hedge/Arcadia and how they would want to investigate it and see if the rumors are true.
Not to mention just general curiosity. The Hedge is a huge plane of existence on par with the rest of the mage cosmology. It would be worth exploring just for the knowledge of mapping the unknown. How something like the Hedge can exist in the CofD yet not be mentioned by mages within their cosmology at all is strange. Its not like Duat or the Principle where its not exactly accessible; the Hedge isn't even that hard to enter.
That sounds like a cop out to me. If the reason why it isn't mentioned is simply space restraints, that isn't a good reason when there have been, what, 30 books worth of space to expand on it so far? More importantly, it doesn't explain why the Hedge is deliberately removed from the mage cosmology as mages understand it. Its not just that it isn't getting any space, its that it isn't being mentioned at all. Mages say they've mapped out the basic realms of the Fallen World but they're missing out on the Hedge, which might have just as many gateways to it as the Underworld have. I just don't get why they wouldn't at least talk about it or acknowledge it as part of the Fallen World. It feels like mages are just closing their eyes and choosing to ignore this huge Mystery in front of them for no good reason. Safety isn't a good reason because sticking their noses where they don't belong is what mage is all about.
I'm aware it does. It gives several options. The corebook however suggests that wrought iron is cold iron, and that you should have cast iron pans and wrought iron fences.
I think that even if someone does hate Reddit, they can agree that it's better than being raped.
This is wrong and dumb. On top of being the usual 4chan anti-trans wankery, that's not even how Beast works. Stop believing what other people tell you and actually try to find out what something is like for yourself. Either that or don't post things that make you look like an idiot and give people the wrong impression.
If you don't like Beast, that's fine. I don't care for Beast either. But don't make it out to be something it isn't. Let it stand or fall on it's own merits. And stop taking what /pol/ might say about trans people as gospel. Unlike Beasts there is a chance you'll run into one of those in real life, and it would just be terrible if you chose confirmation bias when someone got pissed off at you being stupid.
First, mage / changeling crossover was amply discussed in a Changeling supplement. The setting changes in the second editions of both books make render all or some of that material invalid.
Second, not everything has to fit neatly into mage cosmology, even withing the confines of Mage. The Hedge also need not be an important component of mage cosmology or destination for exploration, particularly if the Arcana do not readily provides access or opportunity like they do the Shadow, Underworld or Astral. In this context, the Hedge is like GM Infrastructure or Promethean's Principle and Pyros.
Third, space in the books is also a legitimate practical concern. Not everything can be included, at least right away, and certain material has priority and some must be cut. It's quite possible that Mage / Changeling crossover issues will indeed be explored at a later date, it's just will not happen before other more pertinent, largely internal, matters receive attention.
Not losing faith, or discouraged. I just feel Dave's style would have been a great fix to that game. Currently, the powers make... Well, no sense. They don't fit thematically with the second chances "theme", nor are they particularly suited to fighting ghosts. I'm still waiting with bated breath, however.
>Grab your Freedom Stick
I'm almost certain that in the first Changeling book it says something about advanced technology not working in the Hedge. Sometimes it works, but not how it's supposed to. Imagine pulling the trigger and the bullet going in the other direction.
I don't think I'm going with that for CtL2. IMO, advanced technology and dreams go hand-in-hand. I've never really been up for the sort of meme in WoD books where technology is completely dry and lacking imagination, dreams, wonder, and creativity. I personally think that in many ways, technology is the stuff of dreams.
And not just Neko Atsume.
Ok I need some help with Vampire.
I'm running all of my campaigns in the same universe, and so far I've familiarized myself in great detail with Changelings and Sin-Eaters. My co-GM knows a good deal of Werewolves. I want to run a Vampire campaign, but from what I know of nWoD vamps, they're not as great as oWoD. Does anybody have a homebrew...anything? Something to translate oWoD vamps into the nWoD. Thanks in advance, will respond when I wake up tomorrow.
OWbN is one that I'm always wary of, even as a WoD LARPer. There's too many horror stories of guys going, having to make a basic character because of how their rules work, and then getting ROFLstomped 10 minutes in.
I have friends who like OwbN though and this is one of the games, if it is the one you're looking at, that I've heard decent things about.
>IMO, advanced technology and dreams go hand-in-hand.
That's good to hear.
All the "dream and wonder" talk, however, makes the Hedge sound a lot like the Astral from Mage.
I'm curious if more ostensible similarities will develop, intentional or otherwise.
Sure. Since it's Sabbat, I suggest building...
* A Salubri Antitribu. Always fun to have demon hunting going on.
* A Brujah Antitribu, always classic. Play up the Lost Boys aspect.
* A Panders.
>Demon Storyteller's Guide p.130
>GM is an Exarch or in league with them
I thought DaveB offered a theory about the connection between the God Machine and Exarchs, but I cannot seem to find his post anywhere.
Does anyone recall his comment?
For reference, this is the attitude/outlook of the Thresholds
>Torn (Death by Violence, The Bleeding Ones, Victims of Malice, Marked by Murder and Conflict, Chosen of the Red Horseman)
They tend to either cause or try to put an end to violent, and can sometimes be pacifists. Their stereotypes are all about how they're trying to fight, metaphorically.
>Silent (Death by Deprivation, The Starved Ones, Victims of Neglect, Marked by Starvation and Need, Chosen of the Black Horseman)
Unlike Torn, who can go against their namesake and death, the Silent tend to be quiet. They also tend to be addicted to need, and try to experience more. They're pessimistic in the Stereotypes and kind of wishy washy.
>Stricken (Death by Pestilence, The Ravaged Ones, Victims of Plague, Marked by Poison, Virus, and Bacterium, Chosen of the White Horseman)
The Stricken are all about survival, and how they can win the challenge against Death, which honestly seems more fitting the Prey. Their stereotypes are about getting through disease and finding cures, but that fits.
>Prey (Death by Nature, The Eaten and the Drowned Ones, Victims of the Elements, Marked by Claw, Wave, and Earth, Chosen of the Pale Horseman)
The most nonsensical of the original version, they're obsessed with patterns. They see patterns in every day occurrences, because their deaths were so random. Their stereotypes make them out to be conspiracy nuts.
>Forgotten (Death by Chance, The Lightning-Struck, Victims of Misfortune, Marked by Fate's Injustice, Chosen of the Gray Horseman)
They're all about chance and gambling and letting luck decide things. Their stereotypes are actually kind of... nonsensical and just gambling references. The Torn one implies they focus on gut feelings a lot.
Most of them aren't BAD, but a lot of them feel weird. Stricken Prey and Silent mostly have things that feel 'off'.
Beast is a fascinating case study in the risks of releasing alpha drafts/free playtests. Yes, the published game has made some vital changes to the setting and mechanics that make it all a lot less cringey... but unfortunately, most people who were in any way interested in it were just SO turned off by the playtest draft, they never bothered to read the actual book. In their minds, Beast will always be the storytelling game of self-righteous transgender revenge fantasy.
You have to remember, though, the first "alpha release" wasn't official, but a means to get a freelancer fired (which worked, eventually, and that sucks). I feel like it was bound to happen though. Someone came into the thread weeks before the Beast RPGnet thread claiming to have been in a playtest and talking out how awful it was. Given that a lot of their posts ended up very similar to reactions based on the leak and KS document, and how their posts were straight up deleted by /tg/ janitors, it seems like not just one of the Beast playtested were disgruntled.
The problems with Beast were well known to the developer well before the Kickstarter or even the leak. The playtesters issued clear warnings, and Matt, an experienced developer, still ignored them. His initial comments in response to criticisms were completely dismissive, including the infamous "not all heroes."
The problems with Beast were not about the risks of open development or the unfortunate leak, but rather what happens when a developer has such narrow and myopic vision that he's unwilling to listen to anyone, and the failure of editors and creative directors like Rich Thomas to do their damned job.
The advanced PDF was certainly a major improvement over the initial drafts, but Beast needed far more work than the rushed job trying to fix pervasive setting issues over a few short days. It was only possible to affix a band-aid over the gaping thematic wounds, and it truly shows.
I recently got hold of a copy of Hunter: The Reckoning, and there's a strange ad on the last page, which reads:
>Before the Great Flood...
>Before the Impergium...
>Before the Mythic Ages...
>Before the Sundering...
>Before there was a World of Darkness...
>There Was Something Else.
Does anyone know what this is referring to?
To be fair, giant robots physically tearing a path across the astral plane is pretty fucking badass.
It's worth noting that "ripping the gates" into other dimensions like that can attract a *lot* of attention.
As usual: Try not to endanger your selves when you do these things. Be someone more disposable instead.
Someone More Disposable: Because it shouldn't have to have been you.
I don't actually think that's true. After all, Beast ISN'T a failure. It succeeded. It exceeded its Kickstarter goals. Sure, chalk it up to "idiots will Kickstarter any piece of shit" (which is generally code for "people like this thing I didn't and I don't understand that"), but it succeeded. If nothing else people felt like giving it money.
Beast could have been helped a great deal by Open Development.
Although I again point out that it was a success, and people in this thread treat it like it was a failure.
Fuck if I know. I'd never bother with it. I could find anything I wanted on Google, and I've never needed to download EVERY WoD book at once.
>idiots will Kickstarter any piece of shit
But that's true. Especially when dealing with companies like Onyx Path (or, rather, a brand like the World of Darkness). George Lucas could start a Kickstarter for a Star Wars film consisting of nothing but 150 minutes of Jar-Jar taking a long dump, and he'll get ten times funded before the first hour was over.
>Although I again point out that it was a success, and people in this thread treat it like it was a failure.
Financiers view success/failure in terms of finance.
Gamers view success/failure in terms of whether its a good game.
This isn't the business forum.
Beast is -amazingly- bad, one of those things that any neutral description of it to a third party will make it come off as satire. That being said its got clever mechanics.
Beast is as much a good game as any of the others. Every World of Darkness game was met with critical and commercial praise even though now we all are at least capable of realizing that each and every one of them sucked in some way.
Beast doesn't really come off as satire to anyone, and I've never seen anyone here give a "neutral" description of it.
Also it doesn't have clever mechanics. Satiety is dumb. The powers are dumb. The Lair would better fit in a different game altogether.
>One role-playing game in particular, Changeling: The Dreaming, by White Wolf Game Studio, sent shock waves through the online Otherkin community in the 1990s. Changeling is a game about normal people who suddenly realize they are faeries with the power and need to bring magic back to a cold, soulless world. Malcolm-Rannirl, the administrator of www.otherkin.net, explains that the game did "a reasonable job of drawing together various mythological components," but that it also led to a fair number of "wannabes" deciding they were elves when they were really just human geeks.
>Rich Dansky, a human being who worked on the game, ran into Otherkin through a listserv called darkfae-l. The game "had just come out and there was apparently a rampaging debate on the list over how the folks at White Wolf had gotten so much of their existence right," Dansky says. "Finally, one of the list members came to the obvious conclusion that we'd gotten it right because we ourselves were in fact changelings." Dansky denies having any pixie genes.
>Rich Dansky, a human being
Oh sure, just believe him when he says that.
>how their posts were straight up deleted by /tg/ janitors, it seems like not just one of the Beast playtested were disgruntled.
Where? Are you sure they didn't delete their own posts.
They'd be in the archives still. What month did that happen.
>The playtesters issued clear warnings, and Matt, an experienced developer, still ignored them. His initial comments in response to criticisms were completely dismissive, including the infamous "not all heroes."
Those weren't playtesters
I'm putting together my Werewolf game. Although we did just decide that it might be better to do preludes first, instead of jumping into things.
The people he said "not all Heroes" to. Those were just people on RPGnet.
He did however ignore playtesters.
I dunno which Org that is, but if it's Underground Theater, it should be good. One World by Night is an old boy's club shitshow. If it's not an org, you're rolling the dice, but it's worth checking out and trying your luck.
Weirdly enough I am actually currently not in any active nWod/ChroD games for the first time in years; I'm taking a break from the GM seat for a bit and the evening where I used to run stuff one of the other guys is currently running WFRP 3e.
Planning another WtF game at some point, though. Also Hunter, but I'm actually thinking of putting that on hold and changing it into a Deviant game instead if Deviant ends up hitting the particular themes and concepts that I have in mind well enough.
>All these games
Man, I wish I got to game...
How do you even fit it into your schedule? I don't even DO anything and I have trouble fitting games into my schedule. I mean, people have seen how terrible I am at planning my own Werewolf game this last month or so.
I'd probably be a terrible Werewolf player, anyway, like correcting the GM whenever they get anything wrong or being all twitchy about any stuff that diverges from how I see Forsaken.
...It's pretty straightforward. Each group agrees on the evening of the week we're gonna play and we all get together after work hours and game. It's uncommon for anyone to have such an unpredictable schedule that they can't commit. Obviously stuff does get in the way sometimes or people are sick, but we all want to game enough that we are willing to allocate a slot of time and keep to that commitment.
>I'd probably be a terrible Werewolf player, anyway, like correcting the GM whenever they get anything wrong or being all twitchy about any stuff that diverges from how I see Forsaken.
Here's a terrible admission - I sometimes sign up to Awakening games at conventions without telling the GM who I am, and always just roll with whatever they do without correcting them. It's about the only way I get to play it.
Only took me three times to finally remember my image...
It is a bad year to be a 69 year old man with cancer.
Also, my first thought was Moros, simply because of his general outlook. Second thought is Mastigos, due to his Occlumency and keen intellect. Final answer is Moros, due to his general demeanor as well as his obsession with Lilly. What really clinches it, though, is that he's the Potion's Master. So Moros, high Matter, reasonable Death, high Life (for alchemy) and good Mind. I'd say third degree Adept and first degree Master at least.
It's less scheduling (although that never seems to pan out) and more "RP fatigue". Planning and prepping and getting into the role is so hassling sometimes. I mean, I want to RP, but it's so much work. Especially since I'm always the one running.
Although I've been accused of being the same type of player. There are people in the Vampire game I want to join threatening to quit if I play.
But fuck them, there are already like twelve people signed up, and I want to play for once.
Man, I haven't even been to a convention for years and years. Might have to correct that some time.
If you're finding running a game to be too much like work, then it's probably best to either focus on playing or to look at techniques for breaking the work down into more manageable chunks.
I have a few bouts of extensive note-making before I run a game, but other than that I generally spend almost no time actually prepping before specific game sessions.
My thing is that no one else wants to run. I haven't had a game in... shit, years? And all the ones I've been in have fallen apart. Last one was about a year ago where I ran Hunter and one of my players started running a game in the same timeslot. Heck, I joined a Degenesis one shot and it's been two sessions so far and we haven't gamed in two weeks because we can't get the players together.
Although on the subject of note taking, I feel like I take too many notes and then end up ignoring most of them and making it up as I go along. And yet I also feel like I don't take enough notes. I feel like I haven't given my players enough explanation of what the city is like, or what the world their characters experience is.
Few of them really have many ties to the larger world except their Wolfblooded that I forced each of them to make, and none of them really know what the Forsaken of the city are like because I've barely thought about it...
Also, hey, you seemed to have a lot of detail from the advice you've given me.
>What exactly was the problem with Beast? I had completely forgotten about all WoD projects other than Changeling for around two years.
Writers not on the same page.
The game sort of forces itself on other games (it was made for crossover).
The tone of the writing, which depicts some things as empirically good, some as empirically bad, and Beasts as better than lesser game monsters (like the ones you play).
Beasts have more in common with antagonists of every line than the playables, but supposed to be welcomed into coterie/cabal/packs.
>, I feel like I take too many notes and then end up ignoring most of them and making it up as I go along. And yet I also feel like I don't take enough notes. I feel like I haven't given my players enough explanation of what the city is like, or what the world their characters experience is.
The solutions to these issues are self explanatory.
I've still honestly never gotten the "it says things are empirically good/bad" criticism, or seen a problem with Beasts looking down their noses (which isn't a thing anymore, and kind of feels the opposite). But this
>Writers not on the same page
Really kind of hits one of Beast's tonal issues. Still, I think that the final draft is fine (besides powers) except for one little thing...
Beast has exactly ZERO fucking purpose or focus. You have nothing to do other than manage your monster traits. Building your Castlevania and managing your Satiety are not conducive to actual collaborative gameplay because both of those things are more like downtime focuses. Beasts don't have anything to DO other than feed and build their Lairs. Sure, you can tag along with other supernaturals, but that's not really...
Like, it has the same problems with Geist that they didn't work out at all. Right down to mechanics that don't contextualize play. In Geist you're told that your Geist can yell at you or control you or make you want to do things. But that never happens. In Beast, you're told to spook people and teach them a lesson, but the mechanics actively discourage you from doing that. Nevermind that provided you only feed at Satiety 5, you'll never be in danger, and you never NEED to feed above Satiety 5. (Still better than when Beasts were said to create Heroes by letting their Soul run rampant... but that was nearly impossible).
Not only that, with no groups, there's no external motivator beyond "I want to". Which doesn't really encourage character ideas. It's analysis paralysis, and unfocused. Reusing advice someone gave me for my Werewolf game:
>Don't tell people to think of a place to go to dinner. Decide what you'll have for dinner and ask them where they want to get that.
Beast doesn't say "where should we go for tacos?" it says "where should we go?"
>I feel like I take too many notes and then end up ignoring most of them and making it up as I go along. And yet I also feel like I don't take enough notes.
Follow your notes, or don't make notes you won't follow
>I feel like I haven't given my players enough explanation of what the city is like, or what the world their characters experience is.
explain what the city is like, and what the experience is
>I've still honestly never gotten the "it says things are empirically good/bad" criticism
It's pretty clear in the write ups for Heroes and Beasts
>which isn't a thing anymore
It still is
Oh. well duh. I already knew "don't be lazy" was advice I should follow.
Like I said, I never got that. At best you got Beasts thinking heroes are shitty and "we have a right to exist", which even the shittiest vampire thinks.
In the final draft you have Beast going out of its way to tell you that Heroes deserve to exist and are broken and flawed and you should feel sorry for them if you have to squish them like the tiny bugs they are.
I'm hoping Beast's STG helps make the game better.
What's a good Tell for Edward Nygma?
I'm thinking Moon Marked (Ithaeur) or Piercing Eyes. Clever Fingers might also be useful, but those are the two that fit with "Riddler".