I'm excited to see idol on valkyrie action in a few months time. I would have perhaps preferred to keep seeing shows that kept a better balance of the three main elements of the franchise as well as happy:fucked up shit the way SDF did things, but I'm happy with what we're getting too so I can't complain too much.
Eh, just another show I'll skip. Not really a new thing. I'm really starting to gravitate away from /m/ shows it seems. More and more it's becoming a niche that's forbidden from doing new or interesting things, and is just forced into appealing to the same otaku audience over and over again, since the shows no longer have a wider audience. This just looks like they added love live frontier. And they didn't even bother to make any interesting new mechs.
It is. SDF is the best Macross entry and by a long shot at that. I like all the rest to varying degrees, bar perhaps II which is just boring, but SDF is by far the best because it balances all it's elements so well.
Lucas never really pandered though. That was the entire problem people had with the prequel trilogy. He always made films first and foremost for himself and fuck what everyone else wanted or thought, including the fans. He might have merchandised the shit out of what he made, but he never made stuff specifically to pander.
>>13697369 >Lucas never really pandered though. He did though. Mainly to himself. And he was a total merchandise whore. I mean, so is everybody in the industry but let's not pretend Lucas didn't just make shit up just to sell more toys
I have actually. There's a lot in there though, so you'll have to remind me what he said specifically that implied Lucas was pandering, since that's all he'd have done. If you think he pandered though, why not tell me what you think indicates it in your own mind? What did he put in that was specifically for the fans in any of his films?
The original poster implied he was pandering to fans. If you'll notice I said that he made films primarily for himself, so I can agree that he pandered to himself. But then, so does every writer really.
Lucas hated the Christmas Special but just wasn't aware what was going on with it at the time and it was too late to stop it by the time he did know of it. I fail to see how the Ewoks, Jar Jar or Kid Anakin are pandering to anything but himself. Jar Jar for instance was just his desire to see a Buster Keaton style physical comedian in the film. Fans played no part in that.
>>13697390 There's an entire chapter alone on how he cast Samuel L Jackson to get the black vote, er, box office. Seriously, if you actualyl have seen it, you know how much of it is devoted to how Lucas tried to make the prequels all things to all people to get teh monies. Another example, attempting to emulate Titanic's romance in EpII after it made so much bank.
I'm not going to regurgitate three reviews that are hours long when you claim to be familiar.
>>13697352 I was going to argue that Anno would have been slightly closer to being Lucas, but then I remembered how Kawamori edited DYRL the BD release and made it more kid-friendly by censoring all the gory scenes. Fuck, I think you might be on to something, anon.
> An online reviewer said he did these things to get people to see films therefor it must be true > Never mind that they were already part of the biggest franchise in history and were guaranteed sales from both black people and women regardless of whether there was a black jedi and a romance in it or not > or that there was a prominent black guy and a romance subplot running through the original trilogy too
>>13697404 I don't like her outfit to be honest. The asymmetry of the skirt just isn't working well in this design. The dual color scheme of the outfit also doesn't work in this ether. The Red and Black is contrasting why to heavily with the pink and yellow and together creates and just creates a strain on the eyes. It's just really bad over all. At least the girl is cute, though she could do with out the hair gradient.
moeblob idol shit anime JUST fuck Kawamori the faggot he is proof that engineers are autistic as only the biggest of sperglords would enjoy this cancer moeshit fuck the anime industry is dead there is not doubt that /a/ will love this show and those faggots will start posting here
Okay, then why would he care about getting blacks and women in to Star Wars showings when blacks and women had been in to Star Wars all along. And why would it be such a surprise for him to include those kinds of things given that he already had those things in the original trilogy as well as the sequel one?
I dont get how people are shocked. SDF had mechs and an 80s style idol. 7 had mechs and a late 80s/early 90s jrock band. F had idols which reflected its own time period, and delta has idols similar to the big groups which dominate today.
How is this a surprise or a letdown? Macross has always been about planes, aliens and moe idol waifus. Why would you watch one made in 2015 and expect it to appeal to a 45 year old demographic?
>>13697454 I don't know why, I doubt anyone understand why, it's all proof that he had lost touch with his motivations for making these films. Who are you saying was surprised? And he didn't have children in the original, but felt compelled to compromise Anakin as a character by making him a child in the first one off some bizarre notion that children only want to see child characters, despite it being clear kids always love star wars regardless.
>>13697457 >"They wanted to do a retro movie. I don't like that. Every movie, I worked very hard to make them different," Lucas said. "I made them completely different – different planets, different spaceships to make it new."
Basically, he felt they were just rehashing a New Hope. Which is 100% correct.
>>13697484 if absolutely nothing else, as a /m/echhead I always appreciated that Lucas tried to cram as many new designs into each film as he could, even when it turned out a clusterfuck like the Separatist droids in Attack of the Clones.
That Disney played it safe and that he didn't really like that they didn't try anything new, that when he was making movies he preferred to take a few risks and to make stuff that people hadn't really seen before or at least wasn't big.
He also made a crack about it being like selling it to White Slavers, but he was the one contacted Kathleen Kennedy in Disney about the deal and he was the one that set the price and he was the one that put the whole thing in motion, so he really has no grounds to complain. He stopped half way through the slaver line and it's almost certainly a dry joke on his part, but he did compare it to a break up and say that like with them you just have to cut yourself off cold and not go over and try and see the people making the films or interfere with them and so on.
You must be surprised that he'd include them, else why would you think he was putting in something that otherwise wouldn't be there. Those things were there all along though so saying he must have compromised by including them is just silly. If you can't understand why you think it, it might just be because it doesn't make sense.
As to Anakin, the original films made it clear that people were usually trained as kids so Anakin basically had to be a kid if he was going to make it in to the order when they were at their height and not struggling for members or relevance. You don't need pandering to explain that, just following the cues of the original. He still filled the rest of the movie with adults. Anakin was the sole child character and only in the first movie.
>>13697506 Usually it's the first episode and climax episodes that look the best including the last one. All other episodes especially those in the middle are filled with quality. Of course some series run out of budget before they reach their climax episode so that ends up looking like shit too.
>>13697496 I remember her being nothing but bait and pandering to the otaku of that time period. SDF was fucking stupid, and is only lumped together with Gundam and such because of its time period and artistic design. Other than that it was always much sillier.
I'm sure some Yamato and 0079 fans were repulsed by SDF when it came out. It wasn't made for them and it isn't made for you.
>>13697504 I'm not surprised, but the fact that he could have put in any random dude in the Mace Windu role, but picked the statistically highest-grossing African American actor at that time in what is essentially a filler role is thought provoking. Likewise, his vocal frustration with being incapable of matching Titanic's BO is a matter of record. That he decides to ape it's tragic romance plotline in what is otherwise a straight war film like AotC is suspicious to, well, people other than you.
Look, it's fine if you don't agree with an opinion or train of thought that doesn't align with yours, as in this case.
But you should consider the possibility that just because that's the case, doesn't make it inherently wrong.
Learning that early on can save you a heap of issues in adulthood.
>>13697472 Here's the real problem. /m/ has made Production order a away of life on this board. Naturally people start with SDF, and those who like it don't see the franchise for what it really is. SDF is a clash of cultures story, about aliens and how they are shocked at the PROTOCULTURE on earth: Kissing, Music, Male female relationships in general. It shocks the hell out of the aliens, and they react. This is what anyone would come to expect from the franchise as a whole starting here. Macross II, the non-canon entry, continued in this kind of trend. Then you get to seven, & the focus shifts from music being a small part to music being primary. It's extremely jarring. As the franchise continues with the exceptions of plus and zero the franchise continues from 7. SDF's core is reduced to being secondary. Honestly, if I was telling someone to get into macross, I could not in good conscience recommend the original, it's just a bait and switch for viewers.
He picked the highest grossing African American actor for a very simple reason anon: because he had been told by someone that Jackson really, really wanted to be in the film and when he met with him he liked him. Jackson has publicly confirmed that. It's the same reason he made Brian Blessed Boss Nass.
And while he might be annoyed at not topping Titanic, he was also annoyed that Spielberg pipped him with Encounters because he and Spielberg were friendly rivals. He presumably saw Cameron in much the same light. He never pandered to put in something similar to Encounters or ET though.
And again, the original films already had a romance element. The new films were always going to have one too, because the films are and always have been, in Lucas' own words, soap opera and that's what he wants. If you're going to put a romance in a film (or film trilogy) that by necessity has to end on a down note, then it's going to be a tragic romance. Again, pandering isn't necessary to explain it, because all you have to do is look at what the film has to do to line up with the original trilogy and it becomes obvious that those things are necessary.
I'm perfectly happy to admit that Lucas is a flawed film maker and probably even a flawed person, though I don't know him personally to know or care on that second one. I just don't believe that pandering is needed to explain behavior in that films when common sense already adequately explains them as trends of his own normal film making process. You might not agree, but trying to imply that I'm being childish is just sad.
>>13697590 Nope, SDF and 0079 were some of the worst looking shows of their time. Even Yamato managed to look a bit better. Hell Xabubgle, which aired around the same time as SDF, had better animation. And let's not even mention the super high-tier stuff like the WMT series.
>>13697598 I don't know about that for 0079. When I look at Harlock, which came out the exact same year, it's a different kind of issue. Though Harlock has better art in general the animation is much more stiff. Choppy movements and panning shots all over the place. It's the same for Galaxy express' tv series. 0079 really isn't that bad in it's era, when you look at it's animation, it's art was all over the place though. Macross, I have no excuses for.
>>13697632 >Otherwise you wouldn't have replied to my first post to begin with Not at all. And you completely misinterpret me that I'm even triggered. I simply just take pleasure messing with faggots like yourself with several layers of shit taste for Macross 7 and idolizes an MC with Down's syndrome. :^)
I grew up with Mac 7 and watched all of Frontier. Don't like Delta that much. Too much focus on idoling and less on the mechs or the conflict. Soothing people's minds using the power of songs is like almost like a Magical Girl trope and they've explored this many times in other Macross series but this time it's just too in my face.
We need a cyborg idol in Macross who becomes the core of the super special VF, which is also piloted by her love interest. Together they fight the enemy, the idol's power of song controlling a swarm of remotes while the pilot has his machine literally dance through Itano Circuses and enemy weapons fire.
In addition, the idol's singing would allow her to control and guide modified missiles into their targets, ignoring all jamming methods.
>>13697897 >Never getting anything like Plus ever again. We got Plus because it was about synthesiser music. It was popular once. Music change with Macross, not the show's fault to use what is selling music CDs in Japan.
>>13697223 >love live frontier If you actually watched AKB0048, Delta is kind of expected. This ain't the first time Kawamori did aidorus in spess with robots, and since his previous, 0048, was somewhat decent, I think we should be fine.
Well then he's just a faggot. Not saying you have to like everything but expecting anime to be stuck in whatever time period is stupid and wrong. Judge a show for the content not your personal pariahs. The episode didn't even do anything wrong story-wise yet unless you get triggered by idorus
>>13697948 Yes, more or less. With a functional reproductive system. Kind of like Kitty from Silent Mobius (90+% cyborg, but can have sex and reproduce if so desired), rather than a robot with a functional reproductive system like Armitage.
And if we have to make it some sort of bizarre love triangle only Kawamori can do, then the special VF itself is the 3rd member, a female AI.
>>13698044 Dude, Gundam has been made by dozens upon dozens upon dozens of different people, and even it managed to maintain some semblance of consistency in tone and approach through most (keyword most) shows. Even when I watch two separate universes, there's always something that makes it recognizably Gundam. At the risk of sounding like an elitist, Universal Century especially manages to always feel like itself, even through over three decades of passing shows and directors/staff. I can always immediately identify a Universal Century Gundam series by simple virtue of how everything feels within seconds of tuning in.
Macross, on the other hand, is all over the fucking place. It's as if instead of following his own unique style and approach, Kawamori just kind of tries to follow industry trends with varying levels of success. Strangely enough, the only time Macross really feels recognizable is when VFs are on screen doing VF stuff, or if Kawamori's being held in check by other staff members. Frontier luckily had a fuckton of references and tropes that Macross pioneered in the first place to keep things feeling like a Macross show.
Don't get me wrong, I love directors that like to show a tendency to try newer approaches to their work, but Kawamori's just bit of a inconsistent wackjob in that department, and as a result, his work is always a heavy case of "mileage may vary" because he doesn't have a distinctive feel to his works anymore.
>Jenius in the love triangle >another protagonist that likes to make his robot dance >Aerial Knights are all pretty boys >VF-31 is a cool evolution of the YF-30's design >Idols who actually do shit in a fight
I kinda dug the preview episode. It was nice to see some more Zentraedi machines other than the Queadlunn-Rau in CG. And I'm always interested in the different ways that each of the N.U.N.S. fleets all branch out.
I'm also interested in hearing more about the Protoculture, since that's something they said we'll see more of in this one. I was kinda miffed that Frontier's only revelation about them was "They feared and revered the Vajra, going as far as to make biomechanical things that resembled them(Like the Bird-Human)".
I also like how they finally made good on the YF-30's modular container thing. It's looking like each VF-31 will have something different in it's option slot.
I'm legitimately wondering if Draken III is either the actual name for the enemy VFs or if it's just a N.U.N.S.-issued codename. Since it seems weird that a bunch of aliens would name their aircraft after an Earth-made plane that was almost a century old at that point.
>>13698238 You have to remember that unlike UC, where everything is shoehorned into almost every last bit of timeline possible while remaining relatively "canon", Macross takes it more loosely; letting each series effectively be its own thing just set in the general universe. Kawamori himself put it as every series could be considered a retelling of events that happened in the series, with some looser interpretations (kind of like the differences between the war drama movie Pearl Harbor and the real events at Pearl Harbor, where all of Macross is basically different Pearl Harbor movies). For all we know, the real Basara may have actually painted himself in black and white face paint and be KISS 2.0 while Mylene was a mature seductive vixen in true Macross reality.
This results in UC at least feeling relatively consistent, whether it's the original MSG or Unicorn, and everything in-between (though personally I find Crossbone to be stretching things with their Jupiter MS designs).
Macross on the other hand can do things that slightly contradicts previous story/design elements, so the result does sometimes feel like it's another show only using the Macross name and a few design elements.
Both do work in their own respective way, but I can see where you're coming from.
>>13698255 >And that's what I like about Macross. The fact that it peaked too soon and has been going a downward spiral until its become a parody of itself with none of the elements that made it a classic in the first place?
>>13697472 >SDF had mechs and an 80s style idol But the idol was a vehicle for the entire thematic point the show made. You know, the one about culture shaping humanity into what it is today, and expressing that fact to an alien race with no culture of their own through music, the biggest aspect of culture that transcends time.
Now, I have no idea what Macross is about anymore. It doesn't even seem to have a theme...just tropes and cool transforming planes.
>>13698367 >Technically Plus had to deal with an evil AI idol gone crazy because MUH ISAMU It wasn't about Sharon Apple
>SDF's had Minmay rising to fame as a pop idol which is how music played an importance to Macross. That's a plot point sweetie. Minmay's rise mostly happens in the background, SDF was primarily about Hikaru and the conflict itself.
>complaining about muh aidorus >when we only have an incomplete version of the first episode Guys, for all we know, Kawamori might probably pull a 0048 and sideline the shit out of the idol shenanigans like he did in 0048 for character drama and plot and only bring them in for concerts/battles for maximum suffering when green gets captured
>>13698378 >But the idol was a vehicle for the entire thematic point the show made. It wasn't, fuck Minmey is barely given any fucking focus, her singing is a plot point that's as well done as 0079 introduction to psychics. The singing only got more attention in 7 where it becomes some retarded DBZ esque bullshit and then in Zero some mystic religious bullshit and then in Frontier where its just bullshit.
>>13698402 >then in Frontier where its just bullshit. Singing as a form of communication aided by bacteria that does the actual communication is bullshit? The singing effectively works to jam the Vajra's communication network, at least until the end where the Vajra figured out individuality via 2 singers.
>>13698402 >Minmey is barely given any fucking focus, her singing is a plot point that's as well done as 0079 introduction to psychics You mean aside from her singing introducing the Zentradi to the concept of culture on a wide scale, slowly setting the stage for their internal conflict and serving as the focal point for their self-evaluation and eventual acceptance of humanity?
>>13698414 About as bullshit as the Zents getting so much culture shock that they can't fight effectively at all.
The singing-to-jam-enemy-network part at least made some sense, and singing to communicate, is pretty damn common in nature, hell, some animals sing to attract mates, that's, in a way, communicating their desire to find a partner to mate. Which is also covered by the fact that Aimo, despite how annoying it is, was an in-universe Vajra love song.
>>13698431 The importance of music has changed with every Macross entry. In SDF it was about introducing culture, in Plus it was for brainwashing, in 7 it was for combating the Protodevlin, in Zero it was...to make rocks float, in Frontier it was about communication. Now Delta is using music to cure a disease and quell violence so in a way it's closer to SDF than the other series before it.
>>13698378 What could it be about? Theyd have to do alternate reality rehashes to continue with that theme. And I'm sure you guys would eat it up since you can't handle actual change between entries of a given franchise. That's why this place refused to acknowledge G Gundam for literal years and stuff like X and Turn A are largely ignored-they arent straight rehashes of the same story you saw as a teenager. Get over it old man. Youll never be that happy again
>this entire thread Holy shit, this is some fucking autism. Why are you taking Macross so seriously? It's like seeing someone take Metal Gear seriously. The more seriously you take it, the less you enjoy it.
>>13698662 You're just a parasite, a leech, Kawamori owes you nothing. Your kind means nothing, brings nothing to the franchise. You buy nothing, you create nothing. You feed on borrowed dreams you have no right to share.
Also, as good as the first season of AKB0048 was, this has potential to blow it out of the water.
There's no AKB48 cocksucking, including shitty general elections arc. There's no shitty AKB48 music. The soundtrack is better so far. That first action scene was easily better than anything is ABK0048. It was almost Symphogear-tier. I had a big smile on my face throughout the whole thing. The girls aren't scrawny. No outright creepy use of CGI. There's no shitty voice acting from amateurs.
Really, the biggest flaws of AKB0048 came from the fact that it was an AKB48 anime. If it wasn't tied down by that, from everything from world building to character design... Well, it was already amazing, but it would have been even more amazing.
This is following a premise that's similar in a few ways, but without the AKB48 restriction, and a larger budget, in a universe that's housed several other really good series. I'm pretty damned hyped.
>rock stars >rock music >masculine or at least tough aesthetic >usually plays an instrument; guitar, drums, bass; at the very least, the people on the instruments are important public faces of the band >not so much emphasis on dancing
>idols >pop music >feminine aesthetic, usually cute >people who play the instruments are almost never public figures, much less the idols >always dance; a strong emphasis on dance routine is basically a part of the definition of what it means to be an idol
>>13698525 But Macross has New-Type hax only what New-Types were originally envisioned to be by Deikun.
Macross Chronicle Worldguide 02A: The Birdman >The Abilities And Maintenance Systems Of The "Birdman" The Birdman has abilities that stand out, as a semi-organic cyborg that was produced in the golden age of Over Technology. However, operating for an extended period of time was impossible in a state without maintenance. So, it was arranged that the regeneration and activation would be carried out by the "space-time resonance ability" of the primitive Earthlings. Mayan Island was certainly a place where a religious form that centred on the Birdman was adopted, and the family of the head priest, who had powerful "space-time resonance ability", where the "Shrine Maidens".
>Mayan Shrine Maidens Among the majority of Earthlings, who lost their space-time resonance abilities due to gene manipulation, they are from a family in which the space-time resonance abilities remained in order to regenerate and activate the Birdman. They have the beliefs of the Protoculture and Birdman at the genetic level. Also, it's said that families with identical abilities exist in various places on the Earth.
Basically Basara and co., Sara and Mao, Sheryl and Ranka all have Fold Wave hax that the Protoculture intended for humanity to maintain their bio mecha weapons kit but not necessarily control them. The Bird Human and the non-possessed Evil Series on Macross 30 needed female singers with Space Time Resonance ability to activate.
What are the odds that Mirage is actually pretty bad at a lot of shit unlike the rest of her family and she moved to an outer rim system because the people there aren't as likely to have expectations of her because they don't know about the Jenius family?
>>13699594 Let's see. She and Mikumo go to the surface of the planet to do some covert recon. Mikumo instantly ditches her because she knows Mirage will blow their cover, indicating that Mirage already has history of doing so. Mirage proceeds to forget her mission and starts chasing down some unrelated stowaway. She ends up arresting the wrong person. She ends up telling two complete strangers her identity, one of which she just mistakenly arrested, and the other a criminal stowaway. During the concert performance, her movements are sluggish and lag behind the other pilots. During the dogfight, she's the only pilot to get pinned down and require saving while fighting a single enemy VF.
>>13700584 It isn't, really. Macross is definitely one of the trashiest examples of trend followers and Kawamori's always been a hack outside of his talents in mecha design. This latest incarnation seems to be putting far less emphasis on the unique sci-fi identity Macross has acquired in favor of pandering to the lowest common denominator of waifu-obsessed otakus...so I guess you could say that Macross has always been a reflection of cultural trends at the time, but given that this is modern japanesen idol culture and the creepy implications it has for an entire generation we're talking about, I wouldn't really call that a point in it's favor...
Oh well. Another Macross in the trash. I'll always rely on Gundam to scratch my soft sci-fi itch, I suppose...
I liked it, thought it was definitely the next evolution from Frontier. Singers get more involved in the battle but it was a bit too camp I must admit but that's just how Macross is. Actually enjoyed the songs here and cant wait to hear more and hope the songs get uploaded, didn't enjoy every song in Frontier apart from Seikan Hikou, Ranka's what about my star was great too and Sayonara no Tsubasa was GOAT, I thought all of Macross 7's songs were great but the series itself had some of the slowest pacing I've ever seen with a full 20 episodes of Basara singing the same fucking song with the same recycled scenes over and over before they began to progress. Animation was alright, CGI was odd in some places, namely with the Zentradi and ground units, the Valkyries themselves were alright and was plenty of action, dislike the use of another gay toyboy looking protag again. My biggest interest for the series is really that it seems that the enemy who is causing this Var shit is another singer, having music has always been big deal in Macross and seeing it used to fuel the enemy from the get go is interesting to me.
>>13700682 Sheryl and Myung canonically have sex in the course of their respective shows. It's pretty heavily implied that Ishtar and Hibiki have a one-night stand in II. Did any similar implications ever occur in Zero with Sara and Shin? I can't recall.
>>13700686 >and Kawamori's always been a hack outside of his talents in mecha design I'm not so sure I can even say that anymore. Siegfried is the first animated VF that I can honestly say is not particularly attractive in any of it's forms. He's slipping.
Durandal was too underutilized. I really hope it shows up again...
On a sidenote, singers getting more involved in battle has some tremendous potential for death scenes later on. Based on what happened to Grace in Frontier I can only hope Kawamori shatters the akb formula.
Kawamori's best mecha design work and coincidentally his last good ones, were those done for Gundam 0083.
Everything after then has been mediocre to shit. I know he's inherently limited when it comes to valkyrie design but god damn why can't there be some neat gimmick like valkyries that combine like ZZ/AGE-3/Impulse
Cautiously optimistic. Macross is about love triangles and music affecting living beings in fundamental ways. The crazy light and sound technology Walkurie uses is a reasonable evolution of what we saw in Macross 7 and Macross Plus. Just like passing judgement on the new Star Wars trilogy, cautiously optimistic, but waiting until I've seen where they go from the first installment.
>>13700834 >combining mecha are shit Haha, that was really funny friend tell me that joke again mate because it was funny I can't believe how hard I laughed at that one. It was slamming good joke my friend.
>>13700827 Not really. It's something it invented, but has always been applied in differing ways, and not always in a graceful fashion.
Macross's identity has always been about human culture, the potential relationships between humankind and alien races, and transforming planes. The music aspect was always just a vehicle for the cultural/alien interaction aspect of the show.
We'll see how it goes with Delta, but given Kawamori's more recent track record, I'm not getting my hopes up for any meaningful application of music. The mediocre VF designs aren't helping it's case, but maybe with a super pack, it'll look better...
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