No recommendations, posting from phone edition
>What are you currently reading
>Which sff work do you hate the most
>Which are the five essential sff novels in your opinion
Old thread >>7617349
The old thread hasn't reached the bump limit. There are till 14 more post to go, and even then, it's a slow board.
The thread will not drop from page 1 to off the catalog in 5 minutes.
Is it because you just wanted to post that shitty art?
You are shitting up the general with that OP,what about people asking for recommendations?
You are going to get the thread flooded with useless shit that could be answered with the charts.
The important things about these generals isn't the "edition" it's helping anons who want read fant&scifi.
>The old thread hasn't reached the bump limit. There are till 14 more post to go, and even then, it's a slow board.
This is the fastest thread
>The thread will not drop from page 1 to off the catalog in 5 minutes.
>Is it because you just wanted to post that shitty art?
>You are shitting up the general with that OP,what about people asking for recommendations?
They ask them anyway regardless of images every time because the charts aren't actually helpful
>You are going to get the thread flooded with useless shit that could be answered with the charts.
It always gets flooded with useless shit
>The important things about these generals isn't the "edition" it's helping anons who want read fant&scifi.
They always actually ask whatever in the thread
>this wasn't the first post
Just read the Time Machine by Wells. I really liked the idea of the proletariat and the bourgeoisie evolving into two different species and then the proles eventually farming and eating their previous rulers
I recently finished Seveneves. I agree with the majority of sentiments, the first 2/3rds of the novel were pretty brilliant, with a great finale. Then the second half just plods along and ends abruptly.
What is it with american authors and being able to tell a decent story, but can't actually fucking end a story well.
Investiture and Identity
wew lad this book is gonna be fucking bananas
This was comfy as fuck, like the perfect link between Clark Ashton Smith and Book of the New Sun.
Can anyone recommend any authors with material similar to Alastair Reynolds? I've read everything he's written and am jonesing for new content.
>let me tell you why he sucks and why sci-fi isn't literature instead.
When I give a fuck, you'll be the first to know.
Any Bakker fans in here?
Just finished White-Luck Warrior, hype as fuck for the next book.
did you draw this yourself op? let me get all /ic/ on you.
>body proportions are wrong. hand should fall below the waist line.
>hand should be larger. it would take about four of his hands to grip the sword pommel
>where is his elbow? it looks like he's holding his arm out completely locked at the elbow which is unnatural.
>shoulder should be higher up
>the circles on the architecture aren't circular. the lines on the architecture aren't linear
>adjust the curves on the hanging chains, they aren't acting uniformly with gravity
>those pants are super blousy
>Reading The Fall of Hyperion
>mfw the revelation about what the Shrike is and it's goal
>reading Bands of Mourning
>mfw all the heads are cocked, at all times, and in all places
QUANTUM HEAD COCKING
i'm reading the Foundation series now and i'm enjoying it quite a bit more than i thought i would. i had noted from previous discussions here that the original trilogy is best and that the later 4 books (2 sequels, 2 prequels) go to shit. can anyone confirm or disagree on this? i'd love to read more, even if they're slightly less good but there's nothing i hate more than a book series completely shitting itself--to me, it kind of even ruins my enjoyment of the earliest, best books (e.g. Dune).
>just finished all five books of New Sun
>mfw only now realising it was all inspired by Funes the Memorious
Sometimes, particularly Lovecraft and Clark Ahston, but I think most horror fans don't feel welcome. I'm tempted to add horror to the title of these threads to try and increase the userbase.
I dont understand how I'm bating people. I haven't read very much Science Fantasy, and I wanted to see if anyone on here had any recommendations.
>So aside from the Star Wars EU stuff does anybody know any good Science Fantasy novels?
This implies that the Star Wars books are good
You further imply that Star Wars is the pinnacle of quality that all scifi novels should aspire to.
If this is not bait I don't know what is.
You are reading WAY too much into my statement. I only listed the Star Wars books because I've already read several of them. I dont even like a lot of the Star Wars EU I think about 90% of it is garbage, and I dont know where in the fuck you think I'm saying Star Wars is the pinnacle of Sci Fi but I dont think that at all.
And a special mention to Doctor Who EU: batshit crazy edition.
Well I mean, among a ton of other things.
Hi redshit, you have to be a redshitor because you're new, and these threads have been going on for years (not the general, but fantasy threads), I've been here since 08 and i read nothing but fantasy.
>do your metal tools talk to you?
>your neighbours probably don't want to hear about it but we do
>ask for k or n
>bring the talking metal with you
I didn't read the new book, is that from the new book? It sounds like someone is gathering up pieces of harmony.... what would they be able to do with it?
It's like England was a advance nation, but america was just colonizing a post apocalyptic land.
Their tech wasn't all there as yet so they used swords because guns are expensive... well now and again England gets on their hover mach11 ships to visit america and what their progress is.
Best way to explain without spoiling you at all.
I'm currently reading Stone Mattress by Margaret Atwood and Man in the High Castle by Philip K. Dick, simultaneously
I worked at a bookstore for a while, and I can't really say I hate anything, but that's mainly because 80% of the science fiction books are things I'd never read. They're just cheesy, generic pulp novels about people visiting different planets. That shit's unbearable.
What I like is stuff that examines real life, but uses SF and fantasy to bend the rules. The type of stuff that descends from surrealism, I suppose - good examples of this are Haruki Murakami and Margaret Atwood
>I'm currently reading Stone Mattress by Margaret Atwood and Man in the High Castle by Philip K. Dick, simultaneously
Do you make yourself go boss-eyed for that or are you reading one word from one then one from the other or what, what's the deal here? I mean that just seems unnecessarily confusing.
Why not spend your time more constructively by "writing your novel" that no one will remember in 2 generations or coming up with half-baked theories on what some mentally masturbating author is "really trying to say" like all the other little pseudo-intellectuals on /lit/ rather than shitting up this thread, hombre?
It is. There is active experimentation going on regarding the metals, as seen by the other little snippet regarding the Harmony God metal, and some in-book material. Pretty interesting stuff.
It would be cooler if we'd get new Mistborn sooner than two fucking years.
So.... is the harmony metal going to allow them to warp reality and achieve ftl travel?
That seems like the next course of action.
>slowly sacrificing/imprisoning your god to achieve technological gain
It's gonna be like that planet that has power granting worms. Didn't the "visitors " have some machine that had a weird metal in it?
We don't know. There's a very long extensive theory thread about how FTL will work on 17thShard. I figure it will probably involve some combination of bendalloy and cadmium but I really don't know, nor keep up with it. I don't see 'Harmonium' having anything to do wtih FTL.
First of the Sun was actually the furthest story chronologically and it's speculated that the Ones Above were Scadrians but we don't know for sure as of yet. There's a lot of crazy technological shit going on in Bands of Mourning, even what appears to be a
crashed spaceshipbut you shouldn't read that spoiler and I need to keep reading until I finish this book.
Will it go the route of naruto post war? Have machines made that can utilize allomancy, then anyone would be able to be a mistborn, no matter their birth.
Have 2 machines, one that allows you to put up a "Wayne " bubble across a whole ship indefinitely. Then one that has some weird sling system, that has a fixed point, and a moving part that pushes against it.
Since you are in a vacuum there will be no resistance, you will only gain speed by pushing. I guess Ferromancy(whatever) might be synthesized by then too, you would be able to lighten the ship.
Even if these things require "flesh " to work, they might make some weird cyborg ship whose human components were grown in a petri dish.
What you think?
I think it'll go far beyond Allomancy since Hemalurgy can give one person the abilities of another person, but it isn't restricted to Metallic Arts. Obviously making someone Mistborn would be wonderful for native Scadrians.
I can't find any specific FTL threads but here is a thread about time bubbles so have fun if you decide to lurk: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/12247-everything-we-know-about-time-bubbles/
I don't think we'll see cyborg space ships, though.
It all depends on what Sanderson reads between now and then. He'll probably be doing intense research into science and science fiction, as I think his SF background is a little lacking right now aside from being friends with the Schlock Mercenary guy. And he's got years to do it in. We can only hope.
Yeah the future trilogy better be goddamn superb. It'll be probably twenty fucking years before he even begins writing the damn thing so he should have it ironed out and running smoothly.
>mfw Sanderson Robert Jordan's before he can finish his fuckhueg series.
So who will finish his books? Jim Butcher? Brent Weeks? Kevin Hearne?
If those 3, it will definitely include sex. Imagine Kalidin taking Jaznah behind the tent, gripping her throat and telling her, that her pussy now belongs to him.
Or that cuck that sacrificed his memories of his wife, he will have his sister-in-law ride his dick while biting her milf nipple.
>I need to keep reading until I finish this book.
You're fucking lucky, I have 6 more solid hours of Malazan before I can touch Sanderson
>tfw I've been reading book 10 of Malazan for 3 weeks plus
Just kill me plz
I'm honestly a tad concerned about that. It will seriously be around thirty, or more, years before the meta will be completely finished.
Yeah but he spends a lot of time writing non-Cosmere shit and that makes Cosmere shit take even longer to write. I get that he writes other series so he doesn't "burn himself out" but goddamn son, if you have this grandiose meta-series you wish to write for the readers, don't complain and create feeble excuses after the fact. I just want him to focus on Cosmere more.
RIP in peace in advance.
As long as he doesn't die in the middle of Stormlight, it will be fine. Each series is self-contained to the point where it won't be that awful if the overarching Cosmere doesn't play out, and Sanderson won't need more than a decade or so to finish Stormlight.
Best realization of a world with superpowers I have ever read, most varied and imaginative superpowers I have ever read. As for the real meat of the story, it has solid characters and a good narrative marred by a desperate need for editing and a loss of focus after
Taylor turns herself in.
Geez, you really had a tough time there.
>a good narrated marred by a desperate need for editing
I think Wildbow himself said he only needed that and a reputable publishing offer to release it.
I like when he cucks West with that Blacksmith girl.
I should really get around to reading the last book in that series. I feel like Joe is one of the best in the scene at the moment.
Getting my usual laugh from tehoul, sob child rape stories from people that would die in the next chapter, etc.
I just wanted it to end after my favs stopped appearing as frequently (loved how karlso oolong split that indian witch's snatch in half).
Whatever enjoyment I had withered when mistborn came out, I just want it to end.
I predicted that almost 10 years ago since his writing speed was already terrible back then. he rather preferred writing shitlong articles about his favorit football team on his blog instead of finishing the fucking books.
but I skipped out after the 4th anyway and I can't say I'm unhappy to have done that so what do I care.
Good fantasy has decent prose, great setting and world building, and characters and a story arc that are interesting and not just regurgitated Tolkien. I like Gene Wolfe and le Guin
Not to mention he edits and contributes pieces for a shit load of anthologies each year, yet he can't complete his fucking books.
I had a friend who started the books late last year, and I told her she would have to watch the show to get the ending "no, book 6 will be out before the 6th season".
I just smiled, I have an even bigger smile now, because she will burn in purgatory with the rest of "waiting fans".
sun is dying
earth's resources have dried up
civilization is past its prime and has regressed from its technological zenith
most people live medieval style, i.e. villages and swords. higher technology still remains but is sparse
its pretty comfy desu
hoo boys this finale is crazy so far
Wayne picking up the shotgun after Wax dies
tells his hands to stop shaking because "we're done with that"
cocks the shotgun and sets off on a mission
That's all I need right there. Everything else is dessert.
Kelsier is back
oh shit son
Bands of Mourning might be the best Mistborn book we've gotten since fuckin' Hero of Ages.
>The Briar King, at the end of the epic Fantasy row
Is that the one where the old Gamewarden goes out into the King's Wood hunting for a Manticore? I read some of that years ago after picking it up at a local library. It was kind of a mixed bag, the chapters focusing on the old guy were great but the ones focusing on the young girl really got on my nerves.
anyone else think when he begged vin to stay with him it seemed kinda off character? i guess being alone for 3 years could do that to someone but really i'm surprised he didn't let go after vin died.
you think? i thought shadows of self was better. The end brought up more questions regarding the nature of harmony and stuff. the "twist" at the end of BoM didn't seem all that great to me. It was good but not great imo.
Man that fantasy chart is shit
Why does the epic fantasy section wrap around like that?
Why hasn't someone who likes urban fantasy (as shit as it is) filled out that section?
Sword and scorcery excludes epic fantasy?
Why is there an entry level section at all. Doesn't entry level mean it's over rated or similar to another genre but really isn't that great? People asking for recommendations have already read something entry level, they're ready for the real stuff. Also it can overlap with literally every sub-genre.
What the fuck is "weird"?
Mythic should probably be mixed with historic.
"alternative world" should be called high fantasy. It also probably overlaps with epic fantasy.
for fucks sake, we weren't even basing the list off merit?
not even trying anymore?
Also there seems to be a lot of "my favourite book didn't catogorise well so lets add some of the authors lesser works to another section" going on.
We need to do something like /v/s jrpg general. They somehow managed to limit their list to high quality content with meaningful descriptions.
I'll see if I can emulate it, though I suspect there is very little on that list that the author didnt play himself, which would be more of an issue here.
It's a shit image, but you completely misunderstand the meaning of 'entry level'.
An entry level book is one that's easy to get into for those new to the medium or genre. It doesn't necessarily mean it has less to offer than more advanced works though.
I made that list about five years ago, on the fifth(?) day of /lit/, all excited to share some fantasy experience. It was never supposed to represent /lit/ in any way; it was, in essence, my fantasy recommendations I wanted to share to others. Keep in mind that at that time the atmosphere was crazy; hundreds of SFF posts, even about single authors like Goodkind (and no, not the kind you see now) and Butcher (that dinosaur riding pic was always the thread starter). I wanted to contribute.
First off, I want to say that a lot of your criticisms are spot on. Your criticism of "misc" especially (not the lesser works one, but the stopped trying). At the end, I still had a number of works I wanted to recommend, and I realized I wasn't quite that good at categorization after all (you might say I never was).
As to some more specific answers:
> Why does the epic fantasy section wrap around like that?
MS Paint and a lack of imagination (which is ironic).
> Sword and scorcery excludes epic fantasy?
Epic fantasy and sword and sorcery are two recognized subgenres of fantasy. I'm not sure what your complaint is... You'd want them merged? Usually S&S is a lot less, well, epic in scope.
> Why is there an entry level section at all. Doesn't entry level mean it's over rated or similar to another genre but really isn't that great? People asking for recommendations have already read something entry level, they're ready for the real stuff. Also it can overlap with literally every sub-genre.
Another Anon already aptly answered this. However, I sorely regret naming it "entry level", and should have gone with "introductory [fantasy]". "entry level" has so much negative connotation included.
> What the fuck is "weird"?
It's the category coined by Miéville (or was it Vandermeer). Either way, I fucked up that category.
> Mythic should probably be mixed with historic.
You can't really pinpoint the time frame in the mythic works, but you can in the historical works. But I'm not quite happy with this category either.
> "alternative world" should be called high fantasy. It also probably overlaps with epic fantasy.
Epic fantasy and high fantasy are the same thing. You are right on there being overlap. It's a separate category because in all these works the main character(s) are transported from the real world to the high fantasy world (via portals, or by other means).
> for fucks sake, we weren't even basing the list off merit?
The intention was to create a category specifically of older works, so they'd stand out. Worm Ouroboros, for instance, could be in "epic fantasy" (or "alternate world" if you count Lessingham for all those 5 pages). They're still there for merit.
The image, especially viewed from the lens of a general fantasy recommendation list, is flawed in many ways (which haven't all been mentioned here). However, I don't think it's completely without merit, and I hope there are people out there who have found it useful in some way, at least.
The next list should be a community effort, but no has picked up the torch in the last five years. There is one other list (in two images), but that was a day or two before mine. I'm not aware of any made afterward.
this is a bit of a long shot, but trying to remember this book/series I read once is a bitch, and it's been stuck in my head for 2 days now
all I remember is that there is a female protagonist who is a daughter of someone (semi)important(a noble or merchant), their land gets invaded and while she was away from home she stumbles upon the raiders and gets raped, then joins up with an army or someshit.
I think it had some norse overtones because the raiders started calling her walkyr after she goes berserk fighting them, or someshit.
If you're referring to Goodreads, then yeah, my nick there starts (and ends) with an R. Otherwise, no I'm not.
It's alright with me for anyone and everyone to criticize it, but I admit it has gotten pretty tiresome to read the same comments ("it's shit") year after year. Well, I like Wheel of Time, and time is cyclical and all that...
And heh thanks. It's actually 6 years; I checked the image when I got home and it was created on January 2010. I don't post much of anything anymore, but I haven't quite gotten rid of the habit of lurking here. I think the generals have revitalized discussion (for anyone other than Wolfe) of SFF. Thanks to whoever took the time to start these again.
OotSP is incredibly chill. Don't read it while you're in an actiony mood. Just lean back and enjoy Mars. A lot of people recommend you start with Perelandra and only read the other two if you like it, and in my opinion it is head and shoulders above them, but in any case remember you aren't just reading SF or Christian apologia but a blend of the two.
I've never heard many people talk about That Hideous Strength but it's got a place in my heart, especially when the planets possess Ransom. It's still probably Lewis' very worst book.
I'm not a Lovecraft fan but Caitlin Kiernan writes some incredible weird fiction (not Cthulhu Mythos Shit thankfully) that is of such high quality that I don't understand why she isn't ever mentioned here.
Bands of Mourning is the third Wax & Wayne (Era 1.5) Mistborn book.
>Alloy of Law
>Shadows of Self
>Bands of Mourning
>The Lost Metal
COSMEREFAG, I've finished Malazan this morning.
Started Bands of Mourning,
a flashback right off the bat? Really?. Well I'm currently at work, so when I get home I hope it picks up, and Sanderson writes another "almost sex scene".
Has anyone else here read Greg Egan's stories?
He's rapidly becoming one of my favorite authors now that I've finished Diaspora.
>What are you currently reading
Just finished The First Law series by Abercrombie. I was a bit underwhelmed. The prose was very good--elegant without trying too hard to sound mystical and sophisticated. It was very clearly about the characters and their interactions rather than about events or settings. I usually don't like that kind of story, but Abercrombie wrote it very well. However, it was way too cynical and tragic. All the main characters were constantly bitching about how they were being forced to do horrible things that they actually chose to do, and what horrible people they were when they never chose to change anything. There were way, way too many self-pitying monologues in graveyards or battlefields. Also, it went on way too much about the horror and pointlessness of war, and made shitty arguments. Everyone was always whining, "Why did all these people have to die?", when in fact the battle had happened for a very good and worthwhile reason.
>Which sff work do you hate the most
Here goes the flame war. I say the Earthsea series by LeGuin. The prose is just plain balls. It tries way too hard to sound archaic and mystical. Nothing is explained in any detail at all, not the characters, events, background and magic system, or anything. If nothing else, it taught me not to trust the faggot anons here. Several people in one thread told me my taste was shitty, and said that was an example of real, quality fiction. I wasted a couple of days on it. It was horseshit.
>Which are the five essential sff novels
Honestly, I haven't found any five I would consider "essential" since I got back into reading. Tolkein, I suppose. It sets a nice background for any other SFF you'll read later. My personal favorite is the entire WoT series, but that's not for everyone. You have to have a lot of patience for long, rambling stories and a little repetition in some places--though the elaborate background Jordan built makes it worth it in my opinion.
Like I said, it's not for everyone. Reading WoT is like taking a safari. One by one, the author takes you through all the lands and cultures he's come up with, using the groups of protagonists as a sort of vehicle to travel through them and see the sights. You get an intimate understanding of how each one works, their different cultural norms and their relationships with each other. You actually understand all the politics, why the feuds and alliances exist, and how they are changing and influenced by the events that happen. A wiki page just reads off the events that happened, it's not the same as taking the time to explore and appreciate them. That's what good worldbuilding looks like, it's not just making up a couple of languages and types of clothing. It goes much deeper than that. That's all the praise a series needs, in my opinion.
Also, I like the slow pace of it. It's like listening to your old Grandpa tell you a story by the fire. It takes forever to get to the point, sometimes goes off on unnecessary tangents, and gets a little repetitive in the way it describes things, but that in no way ruins the kind of charm and wonder you get from the story--in some ways, it almost helps.
Currently reading Foundation's Edge to see how it holds up to the original Foundation Trilogy.
I am pretty big fan of science-fiction nowdays, especially the space opera type. Can't get into fantasy anymore.
Who would be my best bet if I wanted to read some "high tech, high life" cyberpunk? Pic kind of related.
Cyberpunk doesn't really have good books to offer. Neuromancer and Snow Crash are basically action movie tier writing. Flat characters, twice as long as they needed to be, dull or owerwritten prose.
Ghost in the Shell, Blade Runner and Deus Ex are your best bets.
I appreciate the effort but while you are giving me an answer, it's not an answer to my question. I'm really not a manga guy and I actually liked Gibson's books a lot, both the Sprawl and the Bridge trilogy. I feel he improved a lot during his career, so if you missed out on his later books because you disliked the prose, maybe give his other works a chance. Not the Blue Ant stuff though.
Most of the cyberpunk media I've seen/read/whatever was "high tech, low life", that's why I'm looking for a different style now.
I guess GitS and Deus Ex would be decent answers if they were literature.
The only answer is nobody put him there. There isn't some sort of objective prose standard we all agree on. I'm sure we can say that Sanderson's not as good at it as Wolfe, but I'm much less sure we can pinpoint the cutoff.
Not arguing with that. We still read him. I'm not worried someone on the internet will think I'm a loser. The only reason I haven't put him on the rec wiki is because I wouldn't trust a /lit/ rec wiki and don't have much of a desire to help someone who would.
It's mostly because he refuses to cuss like earthlings(the fucking novels take place on different planets that never interacted with earth of course they wouldn't cuss like us), and the fact that he is squeamish about writing about premarital sex.
Everyone is not a virgin in his books, it's just he doesn't describe the act.
Those two things put people off(autism), if he wrote about rape gay and incest in detail like Ambercombie, Bakker and Abraham, he would be lit's poster boy.
Been on a huge Neal Stephenson binge in my sci-fi reading.
I read Snow Crash and was just so into it that I kept going. Cryptonomicon was amazing. Diamond Age I just finished up, the setting and world building was brilliant, but wasn't as into most of the characters.
I was thinking about starting on Readme.
He's an active Mormon. He's not going to have graphic sex scenes, he's not going to put in words that make his mother blush, and he's probably even toned the violence down from what he could have written.
There are a lot of Mormon bonuses in his books. The princess in Elantris asking the priest of the death-god leading questions about fine points of his theology is something every missionary experiences. The awkward yet affectionate relationship between the mute king and his arranged bride is very similar to young Mormon both-virgin marriages. So yeah, his books are going to be prudish because he's from a different culture. Just act like he's Japanese or something.
Don't, go straight into the Baroque Cycle, then Anathem, then Seveneves, or reverse order if you want to save the best for last. If you loved Cryptonomicon you shouldn't wait to get into Quicksilver. Reamde and Zodiac are some of his cooldown books, they aren't up to the standards of the three I mentioned.
Oh I know the /why/ behind it; just making an observation, is all.
I do notice that he's getting a tad more lenient with his action/killing scenes.
>Ambercombie, Bakker and Abraham
Lmao those three are barely discussed in these threads.
And I like Abercrombie because he's a good northern lad writing in the traditions of Howard, but more postmodern.
Lets give it a go.
I went with a google form, which generates a nice spreadsheet.
I will post the spreadsheet after moderating it. The responses are viewable through the form in the meantime.
When did magic systems actually become a thing of critqiue?
Like I can read a fantasy/sci-fi story but the last thing I'm giving a fuck about is how it works unless its thematically relevant, which is something Bakker tries to do.
I saw someone recommend this in a nyrb suggestions thread. I like sci-fi, and russian sci-fi has always intrigued me but 100 pages in this is boring af.
Thinking of dropping it.
It happens in all his books, that is why I dropped him.
The coin and dagger series is the same shit.
What I think he does, is write about some past civilization, and then throws in some "magical" elements to it.
What he fucks up is the tell but not show practice. The literal thousands of pages I've read(5 books, 2 series) is the same shit.
It's like your granny is telling you about world war 2, only that she adds in that there are rumors about vampires walking about the alive, but too injured to call out for help soldiers, and that they are draining them.
It's just a scam to keep you interested, you keep reading, but by the end you realise it was nothing but hearsay, and you completed a fucking 900 paged book. I don't know about you but that makes me feel cheated.
I read to see how the supernatural or future interacts with the environment, not some literal history books .
Exactly who I was referring to. I'm pretty sure he's the most underrated writer in science fiction and fantasy.
Di you know they're reprinting the full collections of his stories? EldritchDark is nice and all, but I'd love a full paper collection of his work.
Especially his poetry. Why don't people write fantasy poetry like that any more?
Never read LOTR(not all the books).
Read Hobbit YEARS ago and kinda liked it so I borrowed LOTR book1, dropped quarter way through. That shit was horrible.
Don't know how lord of the shit came into the conversation, when we were talking about modern fantasy.
>I must live my life and read what a bunch of stuffy old men in a hall deem worthy
Are you american by chance?
You are so practiced at following what your overlords tell you to do.
When open corporatist paramilitary becomes a thing, you will fit right in. Remember to douche and use enemas, your big daddy doesn't like shit on his dick.
Since you started touting what some old men who are funded by corapartions think is worth studying.
Shit is changing, and those old men will have to change with the times or be left behind .
I already saw oxford(whose dictionaries i used since primary school ) stoop to the level of ignorant facebook subhumans(anyone who uses facebook everyday is a vain narcissistic subhuman), and made a fucking meme picture word of the year.
Everyone is being made to eat their hats nowadays, so it would not surprise me in the slightest if in a few decades, Sanderson's works are being dissected by academics and published in literary journals.
League of fucking legends already got universities using gaming as extra credit.
Enjoy your snobbery while you can, your tears in later years will be the most delicious sustenance to fuel me in my old age.
Two main reasons:
First of all: A good magic system gives you an idea of the relative power of characters. You want to roughly know which magic users need to be afraid of which other ones, and how much other characters need to fear them, in order to explain their behavior. An example of someone that did this badly is Abercrombie. Throughout the story, we only have little hints here and there about how powerful Bayaz is compared to Khalul or Mammun, and how any magic users are compared to physical fighters--should they be cringing and skulking around any average grunt with a spear, or can they strut through small armies with impunity? Authors who do this well are like Sanderson and Jordan. You know exactly how the magic works, so you know when characters are being reckless and at a disadvantage, or when they are pqwerful enough to handle a situation.
Also, it stops you from questioning the characters' choices. I hate to go through a book grumbling, "Why the fuck didn't (insert magic user here) just magic his way out of that?", because I have no idea what he is and isn't able to do. A bad magic system can be the worst kind of deus ex machina. All the heroes are about to be killed horribly, but then, ta-da! Magic. Also, vague magic systems tend to be based on the characters' emotions. It's just an excuse to make characters have moments of super strength in unlikely times because of muh feels. Mainstream audiences love that, but if you actually want to understand the situation it's pretty irritating.
>Since you started touting what some old men who are funded by corapartions think is worth studying.
I am unsure how many of them are funded by corporations, probably not very much since it isn't a comercial or even mainstream thought journal, and I also wonder how that is relevant in the first place.
>Shit is changing, and those old men will have to change with the times or be left behind .
Trash novels didn't pop into existance now and their popularity isn't new, It can be said that people do read less qualtiy literature, but I don't base my opinions on what the times have to say.
>I already saw oxford(whose dictionaries i used since primary school ) stoop to the level of ignorant facebook subhumans
Ok you are calling facebook users subhuman as a 4chan user who was a sentence before saying how we need to stop caring about opinions of educated devoted men and need to start listening to opinions of plebieans.
> Sanderson's works are being dissected by academics and published in literary journals.
As I've stated before, this isn't the first trash ever written that will be forgotten in years to come.
>Enjoy your snobbery while you can, your tears in later years will be the most delicious sustenance to fuel me in my old age.
If my tears will bring you enjoyment in old age I'm quite sure it will be a sad and miserable existance.
This fag is making shitty arguments again, but his general idea is valid: Why does the fact that academics and experts think literature's good give it any more legitimacy? Explain for yourself what the literature does well, and how. "Professors like it so it must be good" doesn't mean anything
The hidden powerlvl in dirst law did make the ending more sweet.
"That nonsense was meant for the idiots in the streets, but it seems that idiots in palaces are lulled by sweet slop just as easily. I bought you from a whore. You cost me six marks. She wanted twenty, but I drive a hard bargain."
A bunch of military cocaine addicts get high out of their minds and stage a coup (which the gods don't like, obviously, cause queen Lizzy be running the church). But they succeed because magicians are allergic to cocaine.
The trilogy is then spent trying to avoid getting smited. They do quite well by the end because there's this, like, totally awesome chef who takes care of the munchies.
But in all seriousness the story is rather dry and the only reason to read it is for the Taniel x Ka-Poel content. If you were looking for a cool and interesting magic system this isn't it.
if someone spend his entire life studying literature his opinion is more valid than a layman's
stop falling for the subjectivity meme or the all opinions are equal meme
a professor liking it is not absolute assurance it's good, but it lends credence to the idea
>First of all: A good magic system gives you an idea of the relative power of characters
Completely irrelevant to a good story. Even in fantasy which has a lot of magic.
> You want to roughly know which magic users need to be afraid of which other ones, and how much other characters need to fear them, in order to explain their behavior.
That doesn't mean you need power levels. I don't remember Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser needing to know a "power level" to know who to be afraid of.
>Authors who do this well are like Sanderson and Jordan. You know exactly how the magic works, so you know when characters are being reckless and at a disadvantage, or when they are pqwerful enough to handle a situation.
Who are not only sub-par authors outdone by a Warhammer wiki article, but it removes from the wonder fantasy evokes like in novels such as The Wizard Knight, Lankhmar series, Conan, Silmarillion and a plenthora of others.
> because I have no idea what he is and isn't able to do.
Which is not bad or good in itself. I had no idea what Elric could or couldn't do, but it's still a decent novel series. You know more or less based on impressions the characters give themselves.
>All the heroes are about to be killed horribly, but then, ta-da! Magic.
Yes, because magic doesn't exist and it worked for greek tragedies which we can safely call qualtiy works.
>Mainstream audiences love that, but if you actually want to understand the situation it's pretty irritating.
Mainstream audiences love Sanderson and Erikson more because they are currently some of the most mainstream authors out there. Every video game nerd has read them which is mainsteram as fuck.
>if someone spend his entire life studying literature his opinion is more valid than a layman's
His opinion of the writing, not the story.
In fact what someone gets out of a story is really dependant on the reader. You could say that the layman is a better judge because he's more likely to get the same thing out of it as anyone else.
Generally I end up loving stories where I learn something new about people, or where my hopes about people (naieve/unrealistic as they are) are reinforced.
Not to mention that a professor is biased by genere preference, age demographic, and experience (every idea is worse the second time).
i think if that's what you want to get out of a story that's fine.
but literature as a craft includes both writing and story, and experience, and much more, and i simply believe someone who studies it is more trustworthy than someone who doesn't.
also there may be confounding factors at work (it's good cause everyone says it's good blah blah blah), but nevertheless the "literary establishment" is in agreement more often than not on the merits of a work. it's all the more believable that there is some set of "objective" values since there are intelligent, well-read people with contrarian opinions as well instead of a brainwashed mindless regurgitation of the same set of judgments.
also i don't think there's any merit to appealing to more people, so i can't agree with
>ou could say that the layman is a better judge because he's more likely to get the same thing out of it as anyone else.
>Book of the New Sun
I remember reading this for the first time when I was 11. I had no idea what was going on, but from then on I had yearly re-reads until I actually started understanding some of the stuff in it.
It's really a great series, but I can't say I liked Long or Short sun books. That's probably my own fault, I was expecting something alike BotNS.
Anyway, anyone here read "The Night Land"? It was brought up earlier today on /tg/ and I'm really interested in it, and I found a digital copy of that easily enough, but can't find a digital copy of "The Night Land, A Story Retold". Anyone here have a copy they might want to share?
First book of Malazan is just wierd to me,
it's all one big setup for the rest of the series
IMO, Erikson is a fucking god when it comes to battle scenes and he really made some of the most unforgettable battles I've ever read
Agreeing with this guy, second is better and third book hooked me in
If you want my advice, keep reading. I gave malazan a good chance and it's my absolute favorite in fantasy
I think you've got me mistaken with someone else.
Are the First Law and the A Land Fit For Heroes trilogies any good?
I'll give that one a try then.
Someone told me they sort of fit into the dark fantasy category. That true?
Hmm, alright then.
Thanks for answering my questions.
One last thing: don't suppose you have a copy of "The Night Land, A Story Retold" that you might want to share, do you?
Is there a reason Severian is always displayed as a fat cunt in some of the art I see? Did I miss something in the books? I always pictured him as a tall and muscular lad, if he's a tub of lard I'm going to be looking at the books in a whole different light.
What are you talking about?
I'm just posting some fanart for BotNS. That's it.
I don't really see spaceship as towers in this art though, and I always pictured them as being medieval towers made out of metal, despite knowing they're supposed to be spaceships
See, I didn't know that at all.
My bad and thanks for correcting me.
I got no issue with that, but the graphic sex scenes... yeah, not my thing.
That's a beautiful map. Where'd you find it?
In general, there's not that much artwork of BotNS to be found online, I think, and that's a shame.
>Where'd you find it?
Never mind, found it on my own. Silly me.
>That's a beautiful map. Where'd you find it?
It's from Alexander Preuss, same guy you've been posting art of. I googled him and found his blogspot. Latest entry is a post full of BotNS art.
Yeah, just found it myself too.
Back when I found his artwork, there wasn't anything other than those pages I posted previously.
>one way too big Fantasy chart
>diverse, well designed Sci-Fi ones
I'd like to see something like the "Selected SciFi" one for fantasy. Not everyone is out for a certain subgenre, they just want to read something really good.
>Who are not only sub-par authors outdone by a Warhammer wiki article, but it removes from the wonder fantasy evokes like in novels such as The Wizard Knight, Lankhmar series, Conan, Silmarillion and a plenthora of others.
Not that guy, but I think the problem with that is if magic is the primary focus of the story, it has to be defined somewhat or else it just becomes cheap deus ex machina. Conan and Grey Mouser had wizards that were powerful and mysterious, but could be outwitted just like anyone else. Elric was an incredibly powerful wizard, but derived much of his power from favors and contracts with capricious spirits and demons. The Silmarillion had guys who could kill mountain sized dragons and choke balrogs to death.
The problem with series like Malazan is that magic is a main centerpiece of the story and has many aspects of it explained, but it's so nebulous and broadly painted that it's more suspense killing and confusing than interesting or mysterious.
I actually just made a thread on this, but I would recommend the journey series by Amber N. P. Mays for anyone into fantasy. Pretty good.
As a part of my reading challenge to myself, I want to read a fantasy or Sci-Fi series from beginning to end. Preferably 3-6 books long. I looked at possibly the Wheel of Time series, but that's too long.
I'd like to read something a bit more contemporary.