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Was it racist? What do you think of the censoring...
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Was it racist? What do you think of the censoring efforts: redubbing, sticking a white person over the top or cutting her scenes?

Personally, I never thought anything of it. I'd never seen a representation of a Mammy character anywhere else so I thought that's just what she was like the same way I just accepted any other cartoon character. It's unfair to treat cartoons from the 30s by today's standards and change them accordingly.
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shiiiiiet thomas
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>>68016609
Nah, she was cool. All she wanted was for her house to be clean and for Tom to do his job and keep assholes like Jerry away.
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>>68016609
>Was it racist?

Only for Tumblers
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>>68016609
jerry dindu nuffin
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It's done it's over, changing a product that far after the fact I'd say is stupid. There doesn't really seemt o be any point in it. If you enjoy it you should just accept that's a part of something you liked even if you don't like it. If you want to show it to someone maybe you should just explain the context of the era.
Though I don't remember enough of her to make a current assessment of whether she was a giant negative stereotype or if she was simply a black woman in an ol Cartoon which we automatically assume is racist.
Though an anon did get me thinking about how we perceive racial caricatures as racist simply because we have the preconceived notion they're inherently racist.
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>Was it racist?

No. Black maids were a thing in the 40's. They're still a thing today.

>Censoring efforts

Buttblasted SJWs who whine and cry about representation but can't deal with it when it happens.
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It honestly reminded me of one of my aunts.
Wears casual old lady clothing with slippers, a little heavy like a regular older lady, owns a big house with a cat. She isn't black though.

I didn't know it was supposed to be offensive until I was 15.
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>>68016822
She wasn't even a maid. It's her house.
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So you think any reference to modern thug black culture will be censored in the future?
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>>68016609

how the fuck is it racist to show a black person as they WERE? it's like saying showing ancient Romans in togas and speaking latin is racist against modern day Italians.
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I liked the disclaimer WB has on its old cartoon, it said something about how they wont change it but show it cause ignoring it worse. It was something to that effect but it was classy.

But to answer your question no its not. I dont think even blacks make a big deal about it
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>>68016609
Pretty much same as you OP.
I honestly had no idea the mammy character was a racist stereotype as a kid (I'm a Yuro). Just a cartoon character who happenened to be a fat black woman working as help.
It's not like fat black women working as help never existed (or don't still exist), and her actions and reactions to what was happening were just human, never stroke me as particularly black or something.

What's peculiar is that on the other hand, Pepe the Rape is still French.
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Ask any child after watching this if they got some sort of negative connotation from the woman. If she was portrayed in a manner that would change that child's perspective of a certain person, let alone a representation of people.

I find censoring it more offensive and racist, really.
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>>68016609
Don't you know,black people can't have low paying jobs in media. That's racist.
They all need to be high executives,leaders or movie,music and sport stars.

When I was a kid,she was just the owner of the house for me. It's cool to be kid and to not have your mind full of prejudice,about what black people should be.
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>>68016882
Of course it will. They'll say it was exploitative or something like that.
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>>68016902
Nowadays some people think blacks speaking in "ebonics" in any setting is racist because they think it implies blacks are stupid.
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>>68016962
but didnt the fat girl in that mexican guys trial speak ebonics?

and you do realize ooga booga bix nood is a real african language right?
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>>68016980
For that matter, instead of black maids there's lots of portrayals of mexican maids in current media. So the double standard is still there.
"Sure, we can't use this minority, but we can use this other minority instead for the same effect"
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No. It wasn't racist. There was nothing wrong with it.

It's just 'politically incorrect'.

People today are pussies.
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>>68016609
I never realized that it wasn't her house. I just knew the cartoons were boring.
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>>68017040
>have a maid in your story
>cant cast black maids because its racists
>cant cast mexicans because its racists
>cant cast whites because its whitewashing
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
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>>68016980
>but didnt the fat girl in that mexican guys trial speak ebonics?
What are you talking about now?
>and you do realize ooga booga bix nood is a real african language right?
Seriously, what the fuck?

I'm talking about the "you is a bad boy, Thomas" and stuff like that. Ebonics (African American Vernacular English if you prefer) as a creole of English.
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Has any black person ever been offended by mammy?
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>>68017085
>Seriously, what the fuck?
translate ooga booga bix nood from somali to english
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>>68017040
I love Dirty Latina Maids!
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I liked it.
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>>68017080
You can do either of the 3 anon, and not care.
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>>68017080
But in chess the whites start first and that's racist!e
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>>68017085
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpFm6SeMgM0
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Don't think it really is racist but even if it were it's another question if we should censor it.

Obviously people used to be racist, misogynist, antisemite and all of that junk in the past (compared to now). Although that being the past norm doesn't make it justified today atleast we should be able to enjoy the works with those dated values in them. I mean if you go into the classic section of the library and pluck out all authors who were racist, misogynist or whatever, the selection would be quite small.

Bottom line, let's not try to deny the values that existed in the past, but make kids learn a little something from it.
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>>68017114
>3rd dwarf is literally an ape
just like poetry
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>>68017136
>he doesnt know about modern chess where you both move at the same time and there is no checkmate everyone is a winner
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>>68016980
>a real african language right
or derived from southern US accents
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>>68017143
please ell me this is just a joke and not a real american debate
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You guys are fucking racist.
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>>68017143
That second girl is pulling a hood-style Jeff Goldblum
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>>68017182
>or derived from southern US accents
>he actually believes this
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yfw there's rule 34 of Mammy Two Shoes
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>>68017143
this HAS to be parody.
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>>68017189
How?
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>>68017185

It's how a lot of debate clubs work.

I saw a brief documentary on it one time. It's not even about really discussing the subjects anymore. The winner is the first one who can lead the opposing person's logic to ending in nuclear war or something.
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>>68016609
I aways thought she was a bear
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>>68017159
yeah but at what point did the tom and jerry cartoons portrayed mammy two shoes in a negative or racist light? most of the kids don't even realize she's supposed to be a maid if she even happens to be one. I'd understand if it was a cartoon like that one when Bugs Bunny plays blackface.
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>>68017236
but the debate clubs of our country actually tells you to speak clearly
What the fuck is happening with your education system america
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>>68017266

I don't think it's a widely spread thing.

My school didn't even have a debate club. It had academic clubs, a book club, and other things like that though.
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>>68017210
link?
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When I was a kid, I didn't see anything wrong with her, didn't mind the skin color or the way she talked tbh.

And I even thought she was a dog for some reason.
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The redubbing bothered me, but not as much as it sounded like they just grabbed the first woman they could find off the street and stuck her in the recording booth. It sounded like she was reading off a cue card at a 2nd grade level.
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>>68017114
That short is also fucking great.
Great music, animation and humor. It's a shame people will focus on the Black people caricatures when EVERYONE had goofy caricatures and stereotypes in cartoons from the 40/50s.
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It is pretty racist but just throw up the disclaimer that they put on the DVDs and don't change it.
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>>68017411
I agree with this, and I think the image included is hilarious.

If you want to be sensitive about the material, include a disclaimer explaining that the cartoon is a product of its time. I think Warner Bros. did this for their questionable cartoons.
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>>68016844
It's not supposed to be offensive. It's supposed to be entertaining. Nobody made Tom and Jerry with the thought "I'm going to try to piss people off by putting a caricature of a black stereotype in this cartoon." They said "Let's see, who do I make Tom's owner? Let's go with a standard black mammy- they're funny when they're threatening."
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Soon, black people will never appear in anything. Ever. Because they're all censored out because everyone complains about how they're portrayed.

I grew up watching her. She was a figure of authority, not a slave in my childhood eyes. One they sometimes made fun of, but in 'exactly' the same way they'd make an upstart rich white businessman look foolish in these things.

If you remove all "stereotypical" behavior, you'll have black people who behave exactly like whites, and people will complain that aspects of their unique culture and race identity aren't being properly represented. Doesn't matter if the traits removed are "negative" or "positive" you'll get people who complain that they're generic and non unique now.

If you leave them with their more unique cultural aspects, you'll have people who complain and censor that too, regardless of if those things are personally positive aspects for the character or not. (An otherwise moral upright black man who speaks with any sort of ebonics, or hell sometimes even an African accent).

If you cut them out entirely, you'll have people complain they're then not represented on TV at all. Is that the end they want? Because if they keep doing this, that's what they'll get.

It just needs to stop.
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>>68017208
That made me crack up so fucking much.
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I'm confused now: Does Mammy just work in the same house as Tom as a maid or is that her own house? I'll believe she's someone's help but I thought the house was hers. I kind of thought that place she was always going was to work for someone.
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>>68017208
I laughed
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>>68016870
this, I don't get why everyone goes was this racist? when it's clear that's her house, hell it even looks like she's rich I remember on one of the old episodes she goes to a dinner on town or something and she was pretty well dressed
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>>68017080
>cast french maids

win?
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>>68017951
I always thought it was her house because we never saw anybody else there! I don't think she mentioned any homeowners either.
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>>68016959
It sort of is but that doesn't mean it has to be censored. Eventually you get to a point where you realize the main nonthug black representation in media are the Cosbys and Morgan Freeman the magical negro and go wtf.
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>>68018191
Can't have Cosby anymore. Just Freeman and Denzel Washington.
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>>68017107
>This thread is terrible.
I love it.
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Wait, Tom's owner was black (that's not a good sentence)?

I don't remember her being black
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>>68016609
What was racist about her? and surely dubbing would be a quicker fixbore
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Calling it racist is not just a product of modern PC because Mammy was already being censored from TV in the '60s (they reanimated her and redubbed her to be white and Irish).

It's not malicious and it doesn't mean AMERICA WAS A TERRIBLE PLACE back then, it's just kind of a hacky stereotype of the way black people talked, and by the '50s there was already pressure on movies and TV to get away from that stereotype (you still had black maid characters, of course, but they didn't talk quite so broad). I don't think it's going to corrupt our children to see a cartoon with her.
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I always thought she was meant to be a homage to the maid from Gone with the Wind.

Not really offensive, just a caricature. And of course, she owned the house herself and seemed p rich.
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>>68018669
>cel phones
>unitelligable
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>>68017266
>What the fuck is happening with your education system america
Money pump. Like prisons, or mental health care in the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_One_News
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>>68018735
He had different owners depending on the episode.
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>>68018739
It's the Mammy stereotype. It was a popular one back in the old old days because it was a way of making black people seem quaint and harmless as opposed to scary animalistic ones. Mammy is dumb but well-meaning, she's subservient and likes keeping house and looking after white kids.
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>>68017114
I'd be up for some degenerate racemixing with Coal.
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>>68017114
Coal a cute.
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examples of them putting a white woman over her?

I noticed that occasionally as a kid but I thought it was just Tom getting a new owner.
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>>68018669
I know it's a joke made by a jew but niggerspeak is actually considered it's own language thanks to the cultural segregation that they've had for the several generations they've been in america. So no wonder it's so hard to understand.

This isn't because of some kind of lack of intelligence but simply an adaptation of another language.
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>>68018918
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMxA5BLZZvA
White version.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRE0uF5zq18
And the original.
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>>68017208
I had to check that myself with Google translate.
It actually identifies it as Somalian and translates it to that.

What the shit.
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>>68016609
>Was it racist?
No. It's just like with the crows who seen 'bout everything, it isn't racist when it's an accurate representation of the culture of the people of the time.

>Is giving a French character a French accent racist?
>Is giving a German character a German accent racist?
No. In fact, getting in a bitchfit about harmless stereotypes is racist, since you are suggesting there is something wrong with the culture, when it obviously exists.
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>>68019035
Aan hubiyay, naftayda in la Google turjumo.
Waxaa dhab ahaantii waxa ay tilmaamaysaa sida Soomaaliya oo loo tarjumo in.

Maxaa shire ah.
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>>68019097
Calling white people racist just because they're ignorant is racist.
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>>68018922
It's not considered another language, it's a dialect
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>>68017208
The day /pol/ discovered this was pretty fun
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>>68018749
>Can't stereotype blacks.
>Better stereotype the Irish.

wot
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>>68019097
To add, see >>68016962, if anything the one's calling this shit is racist, because they make retarded assumptions about race.

>>68019118
No it's not, ignorance is ignorance. If there is any race I dislike most it is the white one, in particular middle-class white girls. What a horrid sub-culture.
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>>68019123
>Hoop doesn't translate to SUPERSTAR anymore

I guess google caught on
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>>68016609

>Single Black Independently Wealthy Black women who owns her own house in the 1940s
>Racist
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>>68019123
Wow, but if I'm honest it seems like it might actually be pretty complex, since it is so context dependent.

>Be too too too too to be
>Be too too too to be
Imagine if they both made complete sense and make rather different things.
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Africans are very racist people suprsingly.
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>>68019138
Because Irish people are not only shown as that stereotype.
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>>68019192
>whitewashing this hard
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>>68019252
Poor people typically are.
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>>68019252
>surprisingly
What about a continent of impoverished and uneducated people being racist as fuck surprises you?
Did you seriously think that africans wouldn't be racist for some reason?
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Vaguely related: Is it true that Mexicans love Speedy Gonzales and don't find him offensive at all?
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>>68019317
Ain't usually poor or really rich people who are incredibly racist?
Something about both being out of touch with the rest of society.
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To pretend it didn't happen would be a greater mistake.
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>>68019371
The poor and the rich don't get out much outside their limited social circles and so don't have much real world experience to disprove whatever boogeymen they have in their heads.
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>>68019355
well WB had SJW up in there ass and removed him...but mexicans got pissed by this saying 'ey homes why you hate us so much ese...trying to erase us mexicans from kids huh?'

so they brought him back.
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>>68019355

Nobody gets offended at minority stereotypes quite as much as white people
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>>68019397
So the most enlightened people in the world are middle class white young people. It all makes perfect sense.
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>>68017411
How was it racist though?
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>>68017085
>Ebonics as a creole of English

You either live in an all-white area or have somehow never visited the south. Millions of black people speak in Ebonics AND make fun of people for "talking white."
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>>68019433
As lung as they have life experience and ain't teenagers on a internet soapbox.
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>>68019355
>>68019424
the stereotype that mexicans are fast runners?
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>>68019433
But, most SJWs are middle class white young people.
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>>68019355
The only people that get offended at cartoons are fat soccer moms with nothing else to do, and I guess now the limp-wristed fairy kids they fart out, if tumblr is any indicator.
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>>68019471
they're kids with blogs.
they're about as enlightened as a dark room.
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>>68019463
>he's never seen them run from the border patrol
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>>68019433
Too bad the middle class is going extinct.
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>>68019479
More or less.
Wait until they have real world experience, they're gonna realize how retarded they were, or further dwell into hugbox territory
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>>68019192
>Reblog this if You're a Single Black Independently Wealthy Black women who owns her own house in the 1940s Who Don't Need No Mouse
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I'm black and I never thought Mammy was racist in anyway.
She was just a fat black woman that owned a house.

I just wanted to watch Tom eat shit
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>>68019255
Irish stereotypes weren't as un-PC in the '60s as black stereotypes were.

Different stereotypes go out of style at different times. You could still do the most outrageous Asian stereotypes in the '80s in comics and movies, 30 years after you'd get in trouble for that kind of stereotyping of black characters.

The stereotypical Gypsy character is a sterotype who only recently started to go out of fashion.

And of course some stereotypes become un-PC and then become PC again.
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>>68019355
I grew up in a hispanic household and was raised on the old Looney Tunes cartoons and I can safely say, everyone loved Speedy Gonzales.

I think the only people who found him offensive was the, big surprise, Ultra PC white people a-holes.
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>>68017189
Getaloadofthisguy.jpg
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>>68017786
>>68017114

"In 1942, during the height of anti-Japanese sentiment during World War II, I was approached in Hollywood by the cast of an all-black musical off-broadway production called Jump For Joy while they were doing some special performances in Los Angeles. They asked me why there weren't any Warner's cartoons with black characters and I didn't have any good answer for that question. So we sat down together and came up with a parody of Disney's "Snow White" and "Coal Black" was the result. They did all the voices for that cartoon, even though Mel Blanc's contract with Warners gave him sole voice credit for all Warners cartoons by then. There was nothing racist or disrespectful toward blacks intended in that film at all, nor in Tin Pan Alley Cats which is just a parody of jazz piano great Fats Waller, who was always hamming into the camera during his musical films. Everybody, including blacks had a good time when these cartoons first came out. All the controversy about these two cartoons has developed in later years merely because of changing attitudes toward black civil rights that have happened since then."

It's a fantastic short and Bob Clampett was a great guy. But all of that is overshadowed because of changing ideas of political correctness. What a shame.
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>>68019355
Do you actually think that black people get offended at OP? It's only white people or minorities who grew up with white people get offended at all this shit.
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>>68018915
I'd white wash her if you know what I mean.
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>>68019625
So what stereotypes are OK today? Aside from whitey.
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>>68019433
No, they are the worst. The worst social group in the entire world. Besides the rich elite. Poor people are at least genuine, and have a personality.
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>>68019286

What? I don't remember her serving any white family or having a job. Therefore she owns the house and has enough money not to worry about her finances.
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>>68019764
In the old days it was minorities who got offended. They led the charge against blackface and other stereotypes that white people were so used to, they didn't even realize they were offensive to anybody.

But that's when these films were new. Once they were old, yeah, it's probably mostly white people who get upset about them. Not to say that no Indians get upset about the way they were portrayed in old Westerns, etc., but for most people the priority is worrying about stuff that's on right now, and reflects how a group is thought of today. Yelling about the attitudes of 50 or 100 or 200 years ago is something you do in college.
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>>68017266
>What the fuck is happening with your education system america

A lot of things.

Politically-motivated armchair activists insist on teaching children the importance of hating their country and being afraid of offending people's feelings.

Lowering standards (because standards are racist) has DESTROYED America's youthful prospects. My brother's a teacher, he sees it every day. What's worse is teachers are prevented from raising the bar or holding their children accountable due to above bureaucratic hell.

There's way too much emphasis on emotional health. It's comical. You can't say "No, 2+2 does not equal 5" any more. You have to ask the kid "Hmm, now how did you get there? Walk me through your thought process" or take them aside after class and gently explain why 2+2 does not equal 5.

SJWs have complete control over the American education system and it's all over. Not even going to post Ron Paul.
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>>68019424
This.
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>>68019859
>In the old days it was minorities who got offended
Maybe because blackface and other stereotypes were used as propaganda to propagate racial oppression.

Fuck you for making me use that word, lol.
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>>68017266
>What the fuck is happening with your education system america
The same thing that would happen to your country's education system if you had these people.
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>>68019937
Did you convert to /pol/, or are you a normal person now?
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>>68019968
Firmly normal. I event went a bit right of center.
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>>68019999

Why would that even be considered trolling? Saying you quit being SJW is like saying you quit being in an abusive relationship.
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>>68017603
Hey man Steven Universe is a great show. I've never even stepped foot on tumblr
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>>68019999
I was very depressed. All the time. I hated myself and I didn't feel like there was anything I could ever do to not hate myself. I was always going to be an oppressor, a more privileged person, whatever. I felt like debris, and it's how most SJWs see white people - stuff in the way.

I couldn't deal with it any more. Stuff hurts you, man. It's not good for you.
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>>68017603

Hey now, buddy. I like Steven Universe. And I'm conservative.

I'm a socially conservative Democrat. That means everyone hates me. Tumblr thinks I'm a Nazi. The Tea Party thinks I'm a communist.

The lefties don't like me because I'm pro-gun, pro-life, I go to Church, and I think the government should stay out of Church business.

The righties don't like me because I'm anti-war, anti-death penalty, I think the Church should stay out of government business, and I don't think rich people should get tax breaks.

Don't put me in a box. I own three assault rifles and Pearl is my waifu.
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>>68019992
White, middle class and centre-right is a dangerous mix. I try and hit it lest someone think I'm a crazy neo-nazi.
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>>68016822
>They're still a thing today.
You mean Meheecans
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>>68020072
Hardcore SJW always did strike me as incredibly insufferable, miserable people. I mean to spend every single day being offended by EVERYTHING would just suck the life out of you. It's not a healthy viewpoint to have so it's fortunate you got out.
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>>68016913
As a yurp I didn't even know people had a stick up their ass about the character until about half a year ago.
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>>68017603
Oh wow. It's this guy again
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>>68020312
Difference between 4chan and Tumblr, is that 4chan knows it's a horrible and hateful place.

What would you prefer? a stable enemy or a unpredictable 'ally'?
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>>68020312
Oh, I know 4chan is a cesspool, don't get me wrong but with 4chan, you basically got assholes acting like assholes, and occasionally do find a good thread with legit conversations.

Tumblrites like to think of themselves of progressive and accepting of others but as many, many, many people can attest to, they are quite the opposite.

The best thing we can hope for is that they come face to face with reality and get some sense slapped into them.
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>>68020525
Tumblr:
>everyone is amazing and we love everyone
>except you, straight white man, fuck you
>you suck
4chan:
>everyone sucks
>we don't care who you are
>you suck
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Fuck, I like her.

I always liked her voice.

>THOMAS!

Who voiced her?
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>>68020525
4chan are good and bad people being assholes

tumblr are assholes pretending to be good.
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>>68016913
>I honestly had no idea the mammy character was a racist stereotype as a kid

you being an illiterate twat as a kid doesn't make something not a stereotype
>>
>>68020631
4chan is ironically the one advocating for equality.
>>
>>68020677
The best way I heard of describing tumblr is "The place where nerds go to be the bullies they always wanted to be."
>>
>>68016913
i thought she was Tom owner the whole time, i never even assumed she was a maid.
>>
>>68020689
When did you first read Uncle Tom's Cabin then, anon?
>>
>>68020677
>>68020631
>"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals."

4chan treats you like scum that needs to take responsibility for itself, because you could do better even if you probably won't.

tumblr treats you like scum who need to be administered like violent criminals - administered by them.
>>
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>>68020863
>>
>>68017058
>I never realized that it wasn't her house. I just knew the cartoons were boring.

it was her house. There was an episode where she went out to play cards with her friends and Tom held a big party at the house. Jerry called her on the phone, she heard the racket, and she came running home and beat the shit out of Tom.

I liked the old lady. She was a mammy stereotype, but not exactly a mean spirited one.

She actually reminded me of both my grandmothers.
>>
She was:
-black
-from South
-owned the house
-worked

How the fuck is it racist?
>>
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>>68016609

So does this mean Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben are racist? Maybe I should consult /ck/
>>
>>68021448
Man fuck 'em. Fried chicken and Uncle Ben's is good shit.
>>
>>68021479
I was genuinely disappointed when I found out Uncle Ben wasn't a real person.
>>
>>68017603
Why would you want to say "nigger"?
>>
>>68021691
Why not?
>>
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What will it take for political correctness to die? Not a single good thing has come from it. All it has done is breed weakness and yet nothing has been strong enough to kill it.
>>
>>68017208
Technically >>68017182 is correct.

Not saying that isn't necessarily a language, but if one is to speak English they should speaking in a clear neutral manner. Or at least speak so others can communicate with you with as little frustration as possible.

Speak to the heavily accented Scots sometime. I wonder how they manage to get things done when you're guessing half of what they're saying.
>>
>>68021691
because you're a raging dickmongling superfaggot extraordinary bitchy limpwristed cunt
>>
>>68021727
Answering questions with questions is fucking gay.
>>
>>68021904
And now You are just being niggerish.
>>
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I always thought that she was a bear
>>
>>68021754
>>68021754
>All it has done is breed weakness and yet nothing has been strong enough to kill it.

Shit's symbiotic, the only way you can kill it is with forceful removal or starving it.
>>
>>68021941
>hehe I said it!
>Am I cool yet?
>>
>>68021968
>symbiotic
I think you mean "parasitic".
>>
>>68019859
I'm sure in the old days they didn't get offended and Tom and goddamn fucking Jerry, they had bigger things to worry about like actual racism and klansmen trying to slit their throat and hang them.

Progressives have gone full circle and have become conservative.
>>
>>68022005
Please I was already to cool for school before making that post.
>>
>>68022013
That's actually more fitting, but for some reason I completely forgot that word and went with symbiotic instead.
>>
>>68022005
>implying it was ever about being cool
People here said "nigger" as often as you say "the", "of", or "and". It was vernacular. You had to have known this before you came here. if you didn't, you're beyond help, and if you did, what possessed you to come here? Clearly it wasn't any notion of free speech that drew you here.
>>
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>>68019355
On a related note, I do wonder what Mexicans think of Baba Looey...
>>
>>68019355
>Is it true that Mexicans love Speedy Gonzales and don't find him offensive at all?

Mexican here.

It's true.

Only white people and american-born latinos hate him.
>>
>>68017171
could you play chess where the people set their moves and submit them at the same time?
>>
>>68022099
There's a thought. We use the word "nigger" so often here that it doesn't mean a damn thing anymore. Is that a good thing? We've taken all the venom from what some people regard as the ugliest word in the English language.
>>
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>>68019119
Jive is a dialect?
>>
>>68022110
Not as memorable as Speedy. More forgettable than anything else.
>>
>>68022258
Exactly.
instead of being offended, it's instead treated as just another word without a hurtful meaning.
Basically 4chan's response is growing a thicker skin, while tumblr and SJW's response is getting pissy over the slightest thing.
>>
>>68022336
Of course you'd be forgettable next to Quick Draw.
>>
>>68019764

not to invoke pol

but its the work of the jews
>>
>>68019355

I thought it wasn't speedy that people got offended by but slowpoke.

Because as we know it's impossible to depict a minority in a bad light at all.
>>
>>68016609
of course it's not racist, but it is a stereotype
but stereotypes arent as bad as racism. most of the time theyre true of a lot of people. just as long as you don't think that's everyone. But back then, chances are, you go into any kitchen and see a big fat black lady with a headscarf and a sassy attitude. it's the truth, and you can't censor the truth.
>>
>>68022357
Stop being a nigger.
>>
>>68019446
I'm European and I'm aware. It's just that it's something that's attacked in older stuff by idiots.
>>
>>68022519
If anything she's a positive stereotype.

>Home owner
>Fur coat
>Big fancy jewelry

And all women were afraid of mice back then, it's just that a sassy mamma is funnier.
>>
Racist? No. Stereotypical? Yeah. Should anyone give a shit? No.

Tumblrtards will make a big deal out of it though.

Remember when it was the conservatives that censored stuff and liberals trying to keep everything uncensored instead of vice versa?
>>
>>68019463
The guy that's supposedly offensive is his slow friend.
>>
>>68019808
What really offensive stereotypes are there for whitey?
Too serious? Can't dance? Has Money?
>>
>>68016783
It was never "her" house. She's the maid at best, house nigger at worst.
>>
>>68020714
You fuckers took the word nerd from us. Get out of my flippity floppy floo.
>>
>>68022815
Can't jump and will lose Rosie Perez because of that.
>>
I remember thinking as a child that it was a shame we never got to see her face. In retrospect, it was probably just as well they didn't.
>>
>>68016609
As someone who's not American, nor is old enough to have watched Gone With The Wind when it was released, I never found Mammy racist at all.

Mainly because she never seemed to be anybody's servant. For all we know, it's HER house.
>>
>>68021943
Topchuckle
>>
>>68022815
Uh, uptight, "racially insensitive", can't dance, evil uncaring businessmen, good goyims, rich, clucks. I dunno
>>
I like the thing they gave at the start of the dvds
>This shit happened. It was bad. It's history. If we pretend history didn't happen, we're not being fair to the people that lived through it. We're not being fair to the people that fought and died to change it. And then how are we going to learn from history?

But dumb bitches on the internet need something to complain about, I guess.
>>
>>68022815
Awkward and faggy
>>
>>68020312
Nah.
Anger fosters more anger. It becomes sort of a drug. And there's plenty of people on /co/ getting angry at stupid shit, let's not pretend the contrary.
The higher ground of being "honest" and "hardcore", or whatever this place wants to call itself to pretend we aren't hipsters, isn't *much* better than those assholes over at tumblr. Only as much as self-loathing is better than (pretend) self-loving.
>>
>>68020698
4chan doesn't advocate for anything but suicide and nudity, over all. You little shits are terrible at this stuff, I swear.
>>
>>68021691
>nigger
nigger
nigger
>>
>>68022820
Disputable. Depends at what point. She certainly wasn't always portrayed as the home owner.
>>
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>>68016609
Was it racist, you say?
>>
>>68022815
Who cares? We're in charge.
>>
>>68022310
Slang is a language that uses incredibly informal words. Jive is a form of slang.
>>
>>68023052
There are more episodes indicating she's the home owner than the maid.
>>
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>>68021343
it depends on which Aunt Jemima

the character's originally from a Minstrel show, so vintage Jemima is... questionable.
Modern-day versions where they're not "AW LAWDY MASSA, I'S SHO' NUFF LOVE THA COOKIN'" are fine.
>>
>>68021592
>Uncle Ben’s products carry the image of an elderly African-American man dressed in a bow tie, said to have been the visage of a Chicago maître d’hôtel named Frank Brown.[11] According to Mars, Uncle Ben was an African-American rice grower known for the quality of his rice. Gordon L. Harwell, an entrepreneur who had supplied rice to the armed forces in World War II, chose the name Uncle Ben’s as a means to expand his marketing efforts to the general public.[12] "Uncle" was a common appellation used in the Southern United States to refer to older male Black slaves or servants.[13]
>>
>>68023262
Certainly. Still, let's not call either interpretation wrong.
>>
>>68023304
You know that's genuinely how some black people talked back then, right?
>>
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>>68019355
I am Spanish and growing up nobody in my family had a problem with Speedy Gonzales. My grandma on the other hand hated his cousin Slowpoke because she thought it made people think Mexicans were lazy drunks.
>>
>>68023447
Abuelita having concerns outside of you being skin and bones I don't believe it.
>>
>>68023447
> the descendants of imperialist religious fundamentalists have no problem with negative portrayals of the people they genocided
How surprising.
>>
>>68022450

no mexican ever got offended by Slowpoke.

He's lazy and slow, but smart and can hipnotize cats.

I say that as a mexican myself.
>>
>>68023592

For some reason, english speaking sudacas call themselves "spanish".

Don't take him at his word, he's an idiot.
>>
>>68023406
Some of them still talk that way, and it's still a gorillion times better than fucking hood speak, which you're not allowed to talk about.
>>
>>68023592
>negative portrayals of the people they genocided
Try telling a Latino person they're the same race as the "natives still living in the mountains," as my dad used to say.
>>
>>68022184
>american-born latinos
Truly the shame of the whole continent.
>>
>>68023592

>being this buttblasted

No mexican is mad against Spain, you fucking tool, don't pretend to "share our pain"
>>
>>68023367
I'll call the people who didn't see her planning a dinner party or having her own room idiots who don't pay attention.
>>
>>68023334
Huh, I always thought he was Indian.
>>
>>68023707
But millions of those latinos *are* the people living in the mountains.
And what the fuck is this, the 90's? People being insulted by being called natives should grow a fucking skin.
>>
>>68023438
>>>/v/
>>>/pol/
>>
>>68022184
But why? He's not following any stereotype. In fact he's the absolute opposite.
His friends follow the stereotype, being all lazy and shit.
>>
>>68023708
I almost never met another one outside of university, and everyone is crazy at that age so I thought it would be unfair to judge. What's the deal?
>>
>>68023801

what stereotype? On the cartoons I saw on my country, the only lazy mouse was Slowpoke and even then, he was smart as fuck. All the others were hungry/couldn't save themselves from the Gato Malo.
>>
>>68021691
Freedom of speech. And maybe anon wants to get mugged by 5 black men
>>
>>68021754
You answered your own question. If this pc trend goes all the way, we are all to weak to dispose of such ridiculous notions
>>
>>68019463
>the stereotype that mexicans are fast runners?

In the 1950s it was a racist "opposite joke." The gag was that a Mexican was fast and nobody expected it. Opposite of the norm. Like Casper the Friendly Ghost.
>>
>>68023708
I'm sorry

I'm so whitewashed I don't speak the language of my people
>>
>>68023726
Well you obviously are an idiot who didn't pay attention to read correctly.
>>
>>68024148
The irony being you probably mean "spanish", don't you?
>>
>>68024215
Why not? That's almost certain the language of his family. Few people still speak pre-Columbian languages and even fewer care.
>>
>>68024215
Spanish as in the language or are you implying I am spanish?
I'm only half wetback anyways so eh
>>
>>68024215
Of course! We are latinos! We have the same culture, the same history, the same language, the same religion, the same clothes. We sold our huge variety for the sake of common identity.
>>
>>68024176
>Well you obviously are an idiot who didn't pay attention to read correctly.
Maybe you should pay attention to type correctly.
>>
>>68024291
In my experience, what that "huge variety" lead to in actual practice was talking shit about every other central/south american countries. The most racist stuff I've heard hasn't come from whites, it's from latinos about other latinos. Keep tradition alive all you want, but keeping old prejudices alive seems like such a waste of time.
>>
>>68024265
>Few people still speak pre-Columbian languages
I don't know how it's up there, but Quechua is spoken by 10 million people. It's not a dead language by any measure.
>>
>>68024430
>but Quechua is spoken by 10 million people
Hutts are not people.
>>
>>68024430
I never said the languages were dead. I said few people spoke them. 10 million speakers is few compared to the number who speak Spanish, thus, there is no reason the poster shouldn't think of Spanish as the language of his people.
>>
>>68016870
Oh shit it was!? I thought that at first and then was told that she was a maid but if it really was her house then I see nothing wrong with her character now
>>
>>68024265
Speaking spanish doesn't make him any less whitewashed, just less USwashed.
>>
>>68019424
Or minorities trying to me more like white people. Yoe see this with immigrants vs. Second-generation Americans a lot. The Kids want to blend into white culture, and get unconfortable about the stereotypes, while the older folks don't see the problem, because they see the stereotype as almost accurate.
>>
>>68016609
She was rich enough to own a house, so nope.
>>
As an Irishman, am I supposed to be offended by Lucky the Leprechaun?

Because I always buy Lucky Charms when I'm in the states.
>>
>>68023708
You know we got more Cubans than Cuba and more Filipinos than the Philippines, now. We're more like a petri dish than a melting pot. Still, we'll die last to the super flu with all the immunities and wide open spaces to run to.
>>
>>68024430
More people speak Klingon.
>>
>>68024940
What about poor potato farmers?
>>
>>68017114
I'm not sure if Coal Black is racist or not but it didn't really come off as hurtful
>>
>>68019097
One of them was named "Jim Crow" though
>>
>>68022110
The creator of El Tigre wanted to do a Quick Draw McGraw reboot.
>>
>>68016609
Going back and making books politically correct would be stupid. The same goes for cartoons, film, or any other media.

And I didn't even see it as racist when I was a kid.
>>
>>68026511
Klingon, Esperanto, and all other artificial languages have strictly speaking, zero native speakers.
>>
>>68028876
There are kids who grow up hearing and speaking Klingon. There are ethnic Klingon communities.
>>
>>68016609

no, probably didn't show her face to cut down on the animation time
>>
>>68020771
Yeah, this thing reached the point where kids wouldn't even know it was racist unless they are explicitly told and explained it as such. They just see a black woman from the south who owns a cat and is unsatisfied with it's performance as a mouse catcher.

The closest I came to any meta analysis was wondering what a cat who could be a cowboy would have an owner and catch mice. Being a cowboy seemed a much better idea to me at 6 and I guess I assumed it was sequential or something?
>>
>>68022701
That's a good point. Woman clearly has her own shit together if her biggest problem is a mouse, what's wrong with a black woman having her own agency? SJW's are misogynist.
>>
Mildly racist in that it was a stereotype, but didn't seem particularly harmful or offensive. Anyone who would be offended by her is just being, for lack of a lazier term, triggered.

Obviously being a cartoon show soccer moms had to change it to preserve the innocence of the children (the children who would have no reason to find it offensive or degrading in any way), but are really just playing to their own guilt. Doesn't really bother me. They're benign.
>>
>>68023447
And he had a gun. Yeah, superspeed beaner doesn't seem so bad next to him.
>>
>>68024940
American Mick here. I think from what my brief forray into a SJW space told me, St. Patricks day is the real problem.

Everybody wants to be Irish that day and lets face it, we American's are gonna get shitfaced every holiday, it's just more acknowledged on that one. Our days of white niggerdom are over.
>>
>>68029226
We'll know equality is truly at hand when MLK day becomes an excuse to get shit faced.
>>
>>68021943
Anon, don't give me ideas.
A motivated drawfag is a double-edged weapon, you know.
>>
Middle class white women say it's racist.
I guess they'd know, since they created racism.
>>
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>>68029181
Oh boy, here we go.
>>
>Was it racist?
No.
>>
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>>68029395
Charles Manson was fucking right.
There is actually going to be a civil war of White against Black if the Americans keep the PC bullshit.
>>
>>68029453
No. It's going to be whites against whites using blacks as an excuse. And the latter is going to win because it's mostly dumb women and the former will white knight the fuck out of them for pussy.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=O7fF_loQEcw#t=172
Well /co/?
>>
>>68029453
>>68029478
Surprisingly, a lot of minorities hate the politically correct bullshit since it implies that minorities are sissies who can't stand seeing anything that counters their views.
Hell, the "don't wear an american flag shirt cuz it somehow offends foreigners" law got protested by minorities wearing the exact same shirt.
>>
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>>68029623
The Chopsticks man.
>>68029629
What?
>>
>>68029629
>>68029682
I assume something in California or New York

Can't offend those Chicanos who think Cinco de Mayo is a big holiday and claim to be Aztec warriors but can't speak the Aztec language

And of course in New York- what if you offend the Puerto Ricans? It doesn't matter that all Puerto Ricans are citizens, because maybe they'll still take offense!
>>
>>68029279
But it is
>>
Yes, it was racist, but it's also our history. And you can't rewrite history, you can only try to learn from it and create a better future.
>>
>>68024148
Do you at least play the drums?
>>
>>68022258
>ugliest word

The problem there is that calling "the n word" ugly implies we still live in Jim Crow and black people go to prison just for looking at white people the wrong way (which SJWs would claim happens)

Detravious, Ladarious and all the other stupidly named ghetto trash deserve to be called the "n word" and any middle class black person who gets offended at trash being called trash also deserves to be called the "n word"

Blacks are no longer poor innocent people maligned by a racist system but assholes looking to make a quick buck whenever they think they can claim whitey is being racist
>>
>>68029887
Or you can realize it wasn't all that racist and allowing people to label it as such only fuels the outrage industry and related academia, keeping lazy people in jobs which shouldn't exist
>>
>>68024940
Luck of the Irish
>>
>>68029933
>Detravious

I noticed a lot of black names always have something unnecessary in the beginning of a already normal name

Can someone care to explain this to a black but very white anon
>>
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>>68029976
>the outrage industry
/pol/ please.
>>
>>68029933
Nigger.
>>
>>68029933
>Blacks are no longer poor innocent people maligned by a racist system but assholes looking to make a quick buck whenever they think they can claim whitey is being racist
Neither of those is true. The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.
>>
>>68030240
>The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.
That is middle school logic. People just say shit like this to avoid admitting an extreme is right.
>>
>>68029976
What is the outrage industry's profit model? How do it's investors get paid?
>>
>>68030299
Okay. Then their extreme is right and yours is wrong.
>>
>>68030218
Well he's not wrong, there are always people looking to get pissed about any little fucking thing and call it racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-christian, anti-semetic, whatever.
And just blindly labeling any depiction of a minority racist without looking at any of the context or how individuals of that particular group feel only serves to let them profit or feel validated.
>>
>>68030228
Source?
>>
>>68030218
>if I call him /pol/ then that means academia and media hasn't constantly been pushing new "look at this klansman being a klansman" stories in the news and textbooks for 50 years to justify the existence of useless college majors and diversity officers and other crap

You are an idiot, as expected of a tripfag
>>
>>68030338
>I'm wrong and I know it but since I'm in middle school I'm going to be a little bitch about it
>>
>>68030228
I think both of those are Africans actually

One is just more traditional than the other, who appears to be something like a child soldier
>>
>>68030596
You're saying Africans can't be niggers?
>>
>>68030321
The outrage industry relies on instances of "white racism" to keep itself going

It pounds a few cases of whites killing blacks whether justified or not and ignores the thousands of deaths in the ghetto because those are just statistics

With outrage they push a narrative and get ratings which fuels American media because American news media relies on private investment to keep going

The result of such cases in academia adds fuel to student faggotry and retarded attempts to relive the 1960s and useless professors of multicultural studies being able to justify their worthless existence by claiming racism is still pervasive in society

Occasionally such professors will point out the existence of the private prison industry as an example of racism. Students never bother to protest this as it isn't actually trendy to do so and thus the prison industry also makes big bucks. In a way the existence of that industry helps keep SJW academia alive.
>>
There was a black guy who got lynched and he was dating a white woman

It's 2014
>>
>>68030748
Did they get the guys?
>>
>>68030687
I don't think a soldier in a civil war is a nigger

At this point niggery seems associated with being a black first worlder, especially in mostly white countries, and being entirely useless and whiny about the dumbest things

Africans don't usually have a choice in the things which ruin their countries, like Slavic people or Latin Americans

In contrast chicanos in LA and Poles in the UK have a choice to not be useless gangsters but choose to be violent and stupid anyway, resulting in the law cracking down on them and them complaining "The Man" is out to get them
>>
>>68030748
>>68030759
I saw that case

Congratulations you're part of the outrage industry
>>
>>68023640

It's easier for SJWs to complain about what's been instead of what is because then they can feel like they won something.
>>
>>68030800
I'm just curious.
Is showing any instance of racism just a part of outrage industry? I can understand if you're talking about certain shit where a white guy kills a black guy and they just read racist motives into it. But was this legitimately a case where a black dude got lynched for dating a white chick?
>>
>>68017053

What was incorrect about it?
>>
>>68030903
Probably not. That guy is trying very hard not to jst say "liberal media" or some variation thereof.
>>
>>68019808
Day laborer Mexican seems to be okay. No one give a fuck about them, not even regular mexicans.
>>
>>68022258
No, because this has only happened here and not in the real world. Doesn't matter how good you are at hiding your powerlevel; if you become desensitized to using hurtful words like "nigger" and "faggot" on the internet you're more likely to use them in real life, which may lead to unpleasant scenarios since well-adjusted people have very, very little patience for edgelords.
>>
>>68030965
South Park hardly counts. They don't give a fuck, all their asians are literally the same bad stereotype.
>>
>>68030928
Using a term that accuses people of making money is an innovative approach, at least.
>>
>>68030541
/pol/ itself is the perfect example of the outrage culture they claim to hate.
>>
>>68030903
There was a Bosnian man beaten to death for being white in St. Louis recently also

The outrage industry is not concerned about that, yet the lynching of said black man will likely become major news very soon to pile on top of Tamir Rice, Eric Garner and that fat black guy who attacked a cop

Both are instances of racism, but the outrage industry is concerned with the narrative of "white racists, black victims- Jim Crow lives!" because it sells sells sells

In a world that was actually just neither Trayvon nor that guy in Ferguson would be news and all instances of racial hatred would be equally condemned

Instead the media plays it for ratings- and if the blacks riot because of media sensationalism then those are even more ratings! And if the KKK does a march? Then even more ratings!

Rile people up, get them to be stupid, suppress facts which get in the way of people's feelings and you get outrage which then translates into people constantly tuning in every day to see what they need to get angry about- but of course this outrage tends to be "the good kind" which allows people to feel self-righteous.

>>68030928
>I'm too stupid to understand so I'll just say he is a le /pol/ boogeyman lol

Can I call you an SJW then?
>>
>>68031020
The thing is, he's not wrong. The media on both sides of the aisle does sensationalize black/white crime. But he has to be an edgy extremist teen that thinks he has it all figured out and can't realize that both sides have a point.

The reason no one reports on black on black crime is because there's no white people to give it a human interest angle. (White on White crime gets framed as "gun control" or "women's rights" or some other angle.). it's the fault of the 24 hour news cycle making mountains of of molehills, and making everyone aggro for views. All media and academia, liberal, conservative, or otherwise, needs to monetize and so to do that they go after their bases and report on the same things as viewed through different polarized lenses.
>>
>>68030994

Actually, most people nowadays don't care about the word. Unless the person saying it is actually being racist, even then, they're more upset at someone acting so archaic and in the past more so than a word that has lost a lot of its former bite.
>>
>>68029887
Nice Disclaimer WB.

Shame that they can't use those on Cartoon Network or any other Kids stations.
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>>68023853
Yeah Slowpoke Rodriguez was friggin awesome. He's in a show all about how fast Speedy is and he subverts everything and he carried a gun. The only people who are offended by him are white people and latinos that are told to be offended by white people.

As a Mexican I remember thinking I was black because in school all you would hear about was MLK and the civil right's movement. Then growing up, you'd hear about how a show was showing diversity by adding a black character. Then as I got older I learned that I was something else and that black people hated Mexicans and all the shit I learned in school was kind of one sided and the real world isn't black and white.
>>
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>>68024398
lel just like how asians talk shit about other asians and how whites talk shit about other whites and how the non american blacks that I know, also talk shit about niggers. It's a weird thing.
>>
>>68029832
It's funny once you learn about Cinco De Mayo's history, it's not even a Mexican (as in Mexico) celebration. It was started in California to show solidarity with the Union during the Civil War. Since Mexico had outlawed slavery prior to the Spanish American war and the Treaty of Guadalupe. I just laugh when I see third gen Mexican's yelling viva la mexico fuck america on Cinco De Mayo, I'm just like, this was actually a way of integrating the newly "acquired" Mexican's into the American culture.
>>
>>68019619
>wanted Tom to eat shit
THIS. I didn't even remember her voice or being a mammy, I just remember her being abusive as fuck to a poor cat
>>
>>68031487
I have never heard anyone yell "fuck america" or anything like it on that holiday. But yea, interesting post
>>
>>68029915
How about the trombone? Was in a banda once but the language barrier sucked
>>
u guys r really dumb like it was her house like that's progressive af
>>
>>68031835
Is that like an inside out panda?
>>
>>68031920
...yes. exactly that. It's a rather gory ensemble
>>
>>68031920

That's sad. Someday Pandas will be extinct in the wild and far too inbreed in captivity and there will still be Panda characters.
>>
>>68031955
With the rib xylophone and the bagpipes and the skin flute. Basically only good for playing the national anthem of R'lyeh.
>>
>>68031984
The difference is that Pandarans can eat more than just crappy bamboo
>>
>>68031984
There are still dinosaur characters, and dodo characters. At least we won't forget them.
>>
>>68032001
We should breed them to eat and cultivate corn. Problem solved.
>>
>>68016609
I don't get what you're saying.
Racism was somehow LESS terrible for black people in the 30s? That since racism was so widespread, this cartoon had much more potential to do evil stuff - and it's somehow LESS bad?
What the fuck are you talking about?

Or maybe move on, remove nostalgia glasses and realize that just because you liked something as a child it's not immune from criticism.
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>>68023304

Fun facts!

While there is no Aunt Jemima, there is a Nancy Green. She was hired to offer her likeness to Aunt Jemima products, which were named after a song from a minstrel show.

Nancy Green was born into slavery before being emancipated and hired. She traveled around the country promoting Aunt Jemima products and telling stories. She was known for her amicable personality and her storytelling talent.

This made her one of the most financially successful African-Americans at the time and the money she received allowed her to also become a philanthropist. She donated to and engaged in many anti-poverty campaigns.
>>
>>68032126
>More potential to do evil stuff

How in the fuck does this character do anything evil?

Especially when there have been plenty of people in the world who talk and behave so similarly to her.

There was racism in the 1930s. This character, however, isn't racist. There's nothing racist about it. It harms no one.
>>
>>68032126

Why shouldn't black people who behave like that get equal representation? Isn't that discrimination?

Why should I not be allowed in media just because I speak a little 'hood'?

Should Mr. Chi City be banned from Youtube? Is he too real for you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK7GSARUs_Q
>>
>>68032339
That's actually pretty cool.
>>
>>68016609
I'm glad majority of WB and Disney DVD releases are uncut

Found the Disney Treasure DVDs and they have all the anti-Nazi propaganda still intact
>>
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Is she pretty? I think she's pretty.
>>
>>68032534
Eh.
>>
>>68021343
More Uncle been pickin' cotton.
>>
>>68016609
>>68018739
>>68018857
>>68016962
Suddenly showing normal behavior of a people is racist

It's like people have never watched anything on BET
>>
>>68032534
>Bakshi

Of course, They can get away with it

Does Fritz the Cat still get criticized, or is it only the older cartoons?
>>
>>68032590
>>implying BET isn't racist
>>
>>68032619
But it's For Us By Us
>>
>>68032619

>But look, it's all content made by black people!
>Yeah, but I don't like it, so I'll call it racist.
>>
>>68031920
I don't think many people know much about pandas but honestly good riddance

they evolved by what could be considered a fluke

they don't do anything

they serve no purpose in nature

no natural predators because of where they evolved

all they fucking do is eat bamboo and die

the money and effort going to keep pandas alive could go into other species that deserve and need it much more
>>
>>68032590
>>68032901
In truth, BET is shit on a lot by the black community (the educated ones, anyway) because it continuously produced shows and promoted music videos that showcased the worst facet of African American culture and the channel degraded blacks in general. BET was pretty much responsible for helping to create this massive sinkhole within the community where blacks are divided among themselves.

The Boondocks highlighted this fact. Huey represents an educated black person, while Riley represents the byproduct of the BET/NWA era. He's arguably the funniest character on the show, but if you look through the facade, you'll realize that Riley is a sad excuse for a black kid. Black BET execs essentially sold their own race out to make money.

I mean, notice how you think that shit is representative of the culture; it isn't. It is a subset of african american culture that just so happens to be very large right now. Look at several "black" shows from the late 80s to mid 90s. They're vastly different.

Fresh prince of bel air, cosby show, a different world, Martin, etc -- these shows weren't caricatures of black people and actively condemned negative stereotypes. They were also unbelievably hilarious. BET was a contributing factor that destroyed that ideal.

Now you have a generation of black kids who think BET was/is the best representation of black people and they aspire to be like that. Seriously, it's fucked up. Why do you think every African/Islander FOB distances themselves from African Americans? Culturally, they're considered a fucking disgrace.
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>>68033196
>Fresh prince of bel air, cosby show, a different world, Martin, etc -- these shows weren't caricatures of black people and actively condemned negative stereotypes.

They were also widely criticized as preachy, overly "safe", and very distant from the average lived black experience.
>>
>>68033196
I am going to be spectacularly disappointed when your post inevitably falls on deaf ears.
>>
BET is as representative of black people as CMT or MTV are of white people.
>>
>>68033196
>he worst facet of African American culture

In their opinion. Which I guess is more important than most black people's because they're educated and 'elite'.

>and the channel degraded blacks in general

Content produced by blacks is just so degrading to blacks, huh?

>massive sinkhole within the community where blacks are divided among themselves.

Thanks to the elitists who hated the channel for not being up to their subjective standards.

>Hey, let's have a channel with black content produced by actual black people!
>What? No. Stop. That is not the right content. Let's change it to black content produced by the RIGHT black people.
>>
>>68033254

So, accurate, if by "white people" we're referring to the distinct ethnic group that is "southern whites"?
>>
>>68033233
For any show, you'll always have criticisms and detractors who want the status quo to be met. Blacks genuinely have a crab in a barrel mentality, the lot of them; they'd rather see you fail with them than succeed without them. This isn't new, either. Many hip hop artists have spoken about this fact in the black community that they're willing to tear one another down for the sake of watching them fail.

Those collection of shows are now constantly missed by black people of today and they always reminisce about them. You don't see that facet of black culture being cultivated or shown anymore. Everyone fulfills a stereotype on shows nowadays.
>>
>>68033266

Sir, I am a southern white and I find that offensive.

Pop country sucks ass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTk3fGpo2Lk

I listen to classic country and alt country. Hank the 3rd is takin' it back.
>>
>>68033266
Accurate so long as we pretend the the distinct group is the entirety, ignore any and all evidence to the contrary, and actively discourage even the discussion that maybe shit ain't reflective of reality, sure.

If I suggest that all white people are Jersey Shore rejects or Jeff Foxworthy punchlines, that's stupid. But the inverse isn't for some reasons that are beyond me.
>>
>>68033220
HA
>>
>>68033350

The music sucks, yeah. But it's popular because it sells an aspirational image that the non-professional class has legitimately bought into.
>>
>>68033377
What is that image of, exactly?
>>
>>68033254
CMT is so horrible

Shitty Nashville Country music with ads all over and unoriginal reality shows and shows with clips from the internet
>>
>>68033220

>"This is bad for black people", says the website run by almost all white people.
>>
>>68033350
Love me some Hank 3
>>
>>68033377
>>68033391
I like the Duck Dynasty guys that live like rednecks but live in a mansion
>>
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>Bunch of white gated community guys passing judgement on what is to be considered racist and what isn't
>>
>>68033350

uhhhhh, EXCUSE ME, but this song has the word 'faggot' in it and that is offensive, please include a trigger warning next time or don't post it at all THANK YOOOOOU
>>
>>68033437

I think that's an inspiring message. Money doesn't always change you. Some folks, the honest folks, just stay the same.

Love that show. Bought Miss Kay's cookbook and made duck gumbo. It was amazing.
>>
>>68033442
so liberals and tumblrites then
>>
>>68033513
And ultraconservative Fox News anchors.
It's really amazing how many white people on both sides have decided they're the experts on racism.
>>
>>68016609
>

I didn't think it was racist until somebody told me it was racist
>>
>>68033258
You're actually twisting my words in an attempt to prove a futile point that has absolutely no merit. In addition, you're also making false conjectures on my thought process as if you know me personally. Instead of actually addressing me on the topic, you instead seek an agenda to push while simultaneously sullying my words. This is the exact reason why you SJW people are denounced and considered the worst of the worst because you escape the main target of an issue or debate by interjecting unfounded assumptions. I never even mentioned elitism in my posts. I didn't even think of the word.

Secondly, your point apparently amounts to, "let's showcase the most horrible attributes of our culture and let us not even represent the best parts of who we are or what we represent." There has been no culture on earth other than African Americans and their idiotic sympathizers, liberals who tag #AllLivesMatter, who actually promotes this type of backwards thinking. BET didn't even showcase the positive attributes of black people; it exclusively showcased only the worst. It wasn't even a representative of AA culture entirely and that's probably one of the greater crimes it has committed. It lumped blacks into one standard stereotype and that stereotype happened to be negative.
>>
>>68030228
i need a source please.
>>
>>68033564
And let me clarify this for the anons debating with me: I'm the son of a Jamaican woman and Dominican man. I've lived in NYC my entire fucking life.

I'm not on the outside passing judgment as if I'm some white guy who lives in the suburbs; I live in the fucking community. I am black. I speak from experience and from looking at this shit from the inside.
>>
>>68033551
>It's really amazing how many white people on both sides have decided they're the experts on racism

Well, only whites can be racists, so yeah, that would make them experts
>>
>>68033564

>most horrible parts of our culture

The problem is that is subjective. Who is determining what the 'bad parts' are? Why do they get to determine it?

What is the scientific scale for measuring the moral quality of 'black culture'?

Seems like it's just a bunch of elitists who want black culture to fit their standards instead of being something that is a true representation of its population. That's the issue.

You get a bunch of black people who are fine with it and a vocal minority who want it abolished and think they have authority on the matter because they happen to be rich and have gone to the 'right schools'.
>>
>>68033848
Here's the thing. That "opinions" defense might work if not for the fact that the rest of the world treats us like shit because of those negative stereotypes. Just because some people are willing to further their propagation doesn't make them right because of a difference of opinion.

The "elitists" get to determine it because it's damaging them. And it's not a true representation. Not of the whole. Not unless all white people are gun toting PBR swilling meth heads in tar paper shacks.
>>
>>68033848

We've ended up with a bunch of people on top thinking they get to police what 'black culture' actually is. It's ridiculous.
>>
>>68033891
>That "opinions" defense might work if not for the fact that the rest of the world treats us like shit because of those negative stereotypes.

Victim blaming. Why should we change to avoid being persecuted? Why shouldn't THEY stop being prejudice?

>The "elitists" get to determine it because it's damaging them.

That doesn't mean they are in charge. They don't get to make the rules. No matter how much it damages them, it damages people lower on the ladder more.

And people lower on the ladder tend to accept black culture entirely instead of dissecting it until it meets their arbitrary standards.
>>
>>68033557
yeah, how dare they have an opinion on something instead of laying down and taking their beatings like a good politically correct ally
they should just all admit they're actual nazis that abort black babies in their spare time like all those white people are
>>
>>68033891
>Not unless all white people are gun toting PBR swilling meth heads in tar paper shacks.

Well so the fuck what? They exist, don't they? Why don't they get representation too? Who says they don't? Who is the authority here and why do they get to have the authority?

Why are we suddenly deciding that minority voices overrule the majority within each ethnic culture?

Why do you think you're more important than lower class people?
>>
>>68033912
>And people lower on the ladder tend to accept black culture entirely
I'd believe that if you didn't sound like the exact kind of asshole that loves to spout the dindu meme.
>>
>>68033963
Why do I sound like that? Point out the post where I sound like that.
>>
>People are trying to argue that BET and shitty rap music doesn't negatively affect people's perceptions of black people

You niggers are hilarious.
>>
>>68034004

You are not arguing. You're just expressing incredulity.

>Negatively affect people's perceptions

Why should we stop doing things because they change how people think of us? Why shouldn't THEY stop thinking of us negatively based on their conceptions of culture?

>No, don't play Wu Tang! That makes people think less of you!

Well how about they stop thinking less of me because I listen to the Wu Tang Clan?
>>
>>68034004
People my ass. These are /pol/tards that love BET because it reinforces their preconceived notions as to how we're all dumbass thugs.
>>
>>68034035

>Can't win an argument? Just cry /pol/

Hilarious.

>how we're all dumbass thugs.

Is that how you perceive BET programming? You sound way too self-loathing.
>>
>>68034035

>IF YOU DON'T ADMIT THAT BET IS BAD THEN YOU ARE RACIIIIIIIIST

Or maybe I'm just a nigga who doesn't think black people making what they want to make is a bad thing?
>>
>>68034025
See, that's how we can tell you're actually white. Because you think that's how it works for other races.

For some reason, White people alone can be fuckups without it reflecting poorly on every other white person. It'd be great if that were the case. But it isn't.

And for the record no one gives a shit what "you" listen to. (Especially not wu-tang clan. They're nothing to fuck with.) We give a shit about you acting like books are kryptonite and bragging like being to jail is some major accomplishment that you should be proud of. We give a shit when "you" treat "us" like traitors for going to school and not having a bunch of kids running around because of your ass backwards crab bucket mentality that's keeping everybody down, perpetuated in large part by what "you're" dumb enough to think of as empowering entertainment reflective of a reality and not just some deferred dreams and table scraps left from real culture.
>>
>>68034069
>White people alone can be fuckups without it reflecting poorly on every other white person.

How in the hell is it that you think that? What with 'white privilege' being a widely discussed thing?

>We give a shit about you acting like books are kryptonite and bragging like being to jail is some major accomplishment that you should be proud of.

And black people making their own content for BET reinforces this...how?

And who are you to say that it's an absolute bad thing and it shouldn't be done?

Isn't it immoral to try and police a population for your own benefit?
>>
>>68034025
Well sorry the world isn't a hugbox. People's opinions are mutually exclusive from how you feel about the matter.

>>68034055
I don't care what you make or want to watch, but you should at least be aware what people will think of you if you go around acting like a stereotypical nigger.
>>
>>68034069
>See, that's how we can tell you're actually white.

One, you can't actually tell that. And it's racist to assume that only white people act in certain ways.

Two, why does it matter and why does it lessen the effect of his argument?

You're behaving in an authoritarian way. People should be free to produce the content they want.
>>
>>68034091
>but you should at least be aware what people will think of you if you go around acting like a stereotypical nigger.

So, victim blaming. Gotcha.

No, you are not allowed to act this way! Stop that! Act in THIS way! It's better because everyone else says so!
>>
>>68034069
>White people alone can be fuckups without it reflecting poorly on every other white person

Just what drew you to this conclusion? Give an example.

So, a redneck with a mullet does something stupid.

And a ghetto black guy does something stupid.

So, people WON'T assume that the well-dressed, well-spoken white man in the expensive suit is low-class or backwards.

But they WILL assume the well-dressed, well-spoken black man in the expensive suit is?

Give an example of this actually happening.

You're not talking about racism. You are talking about classism. I think you are a classist.
>>
>>68034105
Oh boo fucking hoo. If you act like a jackass people are going to treat you like one. I respect your right to act however you want, but, again, I'm not going to respect you if you don't act in manner worthy of my respect. White, black, whatever.
>>
>>68034135
>If you act like a jackass people are going to treat you like o

What makes them a jackass? Who decides that?
>>
>>68030299
No they say that because extremes are by definition too simplistic to reflect things properly.
Being loud about being wrong doesn't make you any righter.
>>
>>68034130
>But they WILL assume the well-dressed, well-spoken black man in the expensive suit is?
>Give an example of this actually happening.
I've shown up to jury duty and people assume I'm on trial. I go to my substitute teaching job and have security follow me around despite the loafers and tie.
But yeah, nah, it doesn't happen. You're totally right.
>>
>>68034188

How does that prove anything? What if a white person went to jury duty and they assumed he was on trial because he still looked a little rough or burly? Does that never happen? Can you prove it doesn't?

You're only presenting anecdotal evidence, which is not really evidence. Just an extension of your personal bubble of experience.

So, if a black person came around with the same story but said nothing like that happened, would it prove you wrong? If a white person said he was judged unfairly based on something despite the fact that he was perfectly well-dressed, would that prove you wrong?

Your position is that 'white fuckups don't effect the white population, but black fuckups do'. All you've given is a personal story with absolutely no argumentative value. You have not proven your point.

Try again.
>>
>>68031083
The irony is palpable.
>>
>>68019424
>>
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>>68034261

I love you, Plebcomics.
>>
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>>68034261
>>68034272
> not understanding the white man's burden to protect PoCs
Bigots.
>>
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>>68030218

Actual /pol/ack here.

Quit blaming us, when it's people like you proving our points for us. You don't have to be a reactionary to be sick and tired of the "Outraged for a Living" crowd.
>>
>>68033933
I think his point was you should have both.
For every Duck Dynasty you have a 7th Heaven. I don't know if there still are any Cosby-like shows to balance the Tyler Perry retardation.
>>
>>68018996
it's so weird seeing a skinny white chick do that walk.
>>
>>68034339
But I like Duck Dynasty.
>>
>>68034329
>identifying as a /pol/lack
And you expect to be taken seriously....well as seriously as one can be taken on 4chan.
>>68034339
Well if it's any consolation there've been several nonblack shows being lead by blacks.
>>
>>68034025
Not how it works. You get to like what you want, and people get to call you an idiot for liking stupid things.
It's not because it's black that it suddenly makes it immune of criticism because "respect my culture".

The only way you can dictate others' perception of you is by controlling your own behaviour, not the way it's perceived by them.
>>
>>68033254
Which is funny, because BET owners (originally black), sold the company to the chosen people.
>>
>>68034339
BET currently broadcasts Moesha, The Wendy Williams Show, Queen Latifah, Family Feud, My Wife and Kids, The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, and Scandal.

What's wrong with them?
>>
>>68034372
>It's not because it's black that it suddenly makes it immune of criticism because "respect my culture".

The problem is with elitists trying to forcibly dictate exactly what 'black culture' is. Culture isn't something that can be policed.
>>
>>68034153
Every single person they meet according to their own values.
>>
>>68017143
>uh uh ah ah ah nigga ah ah nigga
>>
>>68034389
>Moesha
is this a show about cute black girls doing cute black things?
>>
>>68034371
>And you expect to be taken seriously....well as seriously as one can be taken on 4chan.

I only mention it, because you probably don't know /pol/s traffic. 1-2% of it is topic creators, 8% is posters, and 80% is lurkers, AKA people from all other boards hang out in /pol/, and bring something back with them.

Stop blaming /pol/ for being influential. Their ideas wouldn't be taking root, if there wasn't troubles at home (or in your medium).
>>
>>68034434
I'm not blaming them for being influential.
I'm blaming them for being stereotyped as being biased as fuck.
It's like saying I'm an SJW.
>>
>>68034430
Sometimes I really want a cute slice of life about black weeaboos, but then I feel really guilty for being patronizing.
>>
>>68034430

She's pretty cute.
>>
>>68034395
No, the problem is that screaming "it's not dumb and doesn't make you look dumb for liking it, it's just black culture" doesn't change shit about people judging it as dumb, be them elitists or not.
>Culture isn't something that can be policed.
It's certainly influenced.
>>
>>68034453
At least on /pol/, you can have a different opinion.

Sure, we'll cap out your thread arguing your ideology is shit, but the discussion is always allowed. We get Libertarian threads, Communist threads, whatever, whenever. Everyone goes there to send their ideas through the barbs, see what comes out the other end.

Placed like reddit and tumblr will outright ban you for going against their "ideals", or posting something they don't like. Critical thought is not punished, but silenced. Which is even worse.

Pick your poison.
>>
>>68034473
Peepo Choo. Not a slice of life but a black weeaboo is the main character.
>>
>>68034486
>Mfw Kim Kardashian's dildo was her brother
I didn't see that shit coming.
>>
>>68034434
Of course it would. There's always people keen on sperging out on stuff because they're unhappy.
Also cool out of your ass stats (that don't even add up).
>>
>>68034488
>doesn't change shit about people judging it as dumb

Again, why should the culture change so that the upper elite can stop judging it? Why shouldn't the upper elite stop judging it for not being as 'intellectual' or as 'white bread' as they want it to be?
>>
>>68034486
damn son, she's 90s
>>
>>68034492
>At least on /pol/, you can have a different opinion.
Hardly.
Try saying something (anything) about racial issues that doesn't fit their hivemind and all you get are memes and image macros as responses. At least that's been my limited experience over there.

Still better than reddit, but not exactly a beacon of open discussion.
>>
>>68034507
Because one has a much better chance of actually happening than the others.
Ideals are nice when you can afford them, but they shouldn't blind you to practical reality. What "should be" true is not the same as what is true.
>>
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I thought it was funny there she was in a bunch of T&J reruns at the same time as this.
>>
>>68016609
>Was it racist?
Even if, it was a piece of craft (art even) that was done in different times and should be looked at like such. Rewriting it is just wrong.
>>
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>>68034507
>Again, why should the culture change
Because maybe some the culture is harmful. Maybe its values are backwards and it enforces and promotes ignorance, crime and blind materialism. Any culture that's actively harmful, regardless of the color of the race it portrays, is just plain bad. We should be able to judge black entertainment as much as we do with white TV. What kind of culture promotes being a thug as something positive?
>>
>>68034507
Because that's not how perception works. As I've told you, you can control what message you send, not how this message is perceived by others and how they judge it.

Stop it with the buzzwords, you're getting really close to calling educated blacks Uncle Sams.
>>
>>68034579
>Uncle Sams.
Uncle Toms, bud.
>>
>>68034576
>Because maybe some the culture is harmful.
This is just going to loop back to the "harmful as decided by who" thing. "Who gets to define being a thug as negative" etc. You're both talking in circles around each other.
>>
>>68034576
>Because maybe some the culture is harmful.

Says who?

>What kind of culture promotes being a thug as something positive?

Give examples of current BET programming that does that.

Are they actually thugs? Or are you perceiving them as thugs?
>>
>>68034585
Oh right, Uncle Sam's that Murrika guy. Sorry about that.
>>
>>68034590
>>68034596
Brilliant.
>>
>>68034590
>"harmful as decided by who"
By fucking logic, you braindead broski. You think promoting drug dealing and killing on the streets is something that isn't harmful? It keeps the culture ignorant and violent.
>>
>>68034590
Wait.

> thug
> noun \ˈthəg\
> a violent criminal
Why would anybody see that as positive?
>>
>>68034614
>By fucking logic
>You think promoting drug dealing and killing on the streets is something that isn't harmful?

Who? Who is promoting that?
>>
>>68034596
>Give examples of current BET programming that does that.
I was thinking mostly about the music when I was talking about thug culture tho'. I just think BET is kinda stupid much like MTV and such.
>>
>>68034628
>I was thinking mostly about the music when I was talking about thug culture tho

Give examples of current popular music that do that then.

Also prove that they are promoting it and not simply portraying it.
>>
>>68034636
>Give examples of current popular music that do that then.
Damn son, gangsta rap, you know, the entire genre.
>>
>>68034614
>y fucking logic, you braindead broski
Whoa hey, don't shoot the messenger. I'm just pointing out how the conversation is going in progress-less circles because this sort of postmodern cultural criticism thing openly questions the existence of things like "logic."
>>
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I for one I'm glad I'm not black and instead just a filthy spic not even living in america.
>>
>>68034652

I said give example. POPULAR examples.

Give me an artist who has released a song you disapprove of in the last year.

Also, how do you prove they are not promoting it, but simply portraying it?

Does The Godfather promote people to be gangsters?
>>
>>68034628
>>I was thinking mostly about the music when I was talking about thug culture tho'. I just think BET is kinda stupid much like MTV and such.

If you actually watch BET, you'll find that there's very pretty much no support for any kind of criminal activity. Nothing that you wouldn't find on any other network.

Hell, Dexter, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, and similar shows have done more to glamorize the criminal activity than ANYTHING you'll find on BET.

It's mostly just popular stereotype that rap is all "drug deals, rims on my car, and big booty hoes", just like people who aren't familiar with rock music think it's all "pierce/tattoo my skin do drugs, and make mommy and daddy mad."
>>
>>68034679
>Hell, Dexter, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, and similar shows have done more to glamorize the criminal activity than ANYTHING you'll find on BET.

And those are all great shows too.
>>
>>68034666
>Does The Godfather promote people to be gangsters?
Not him, but have you never seen Scarface fans? Not necessarily that the film is to blame (the ending is often ignored by those retards) but many use it as motivation that crime can make you a powerful guy.

I don't follow rap closely enough (and when I do it's not gangsta rap) to answer your question properly, but crime has often been portrayed in gangsta rap as a means to an end, starting in the 80s. It's portrayed positively by many as a way to get rich. Arguing it's "promoting crime" is another thing, but claiming they don't often portray it in a positive light would be wrong.
>>
>>68034712
>but many use it as motivation that crime can make you a powerful guy.

Who? Who uses that as motivation? Despite the fact that Tony Montana gets horribly killed at the end.

>Arguing it's "promoting crime" is another thing, but claiming they don't often portray it in a positive light would be wrong.

How are those things different at all? What is the difference between promoting something and portraying it in a positive light?
>>
>>68034679
>Hell, Dexter, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, and similar shows have done more to glamorize the criminal activity than ANYTHING you'll find on BET.
I'll agree with you there and I found the fascination for those criminals being "badass" quite alarming.
>>
>>68034576
>What kind of culture promotes being a thug as something positive?

I have no idea.
>>
>>68034666
>I said give example. POPULAR examples.
Anaconda is one of the most recent songs I can remember right now, by portraying drug dealing men as powerful and desirable.
Also portraying it doesn't help matters if it's in a positive light. For that matter, The Godfather might have not promoted gangster lifestyle but it glamorized it. Many fans of Scarface are inspired by the movie, missing the point entirely.
>inb4 solid proof and evidence that people don't feel influence from positive portrayals of criminal activity.
We could discuss all day. This isn't to prove culture is objectively shit but to reconsider both sides. What might be or not harmful to culture.
>>
>>68034666
>Does The Godfather promote people to be gangsters?
why do you think fedora tippers wear fedoras
>>
>>68034734

Are fedoras strongly associated with organized crime nowadays? Who's the last guy who got arrested while wearing one?
>>
>>68034721
>Who? Who uses that as motivation?
Retards.
>Despite the fact that Tony Montana gets horribly killed at the end.
>(the ending is often ignored by those retards)

>How are those things different at all? What is the difference between promoting something and portraying it in a positive light?
The difference between "you should do that" and "some people do that and it's okay". It's rather subtle, but I don't think there's many rappers directly telling their audiences they should be pimpin.
>>
>>68034740
Me.
Thank Celestia they couldn't prove anything.
>>
>>68030228
Is this french?
>>
>>68034747
>Retards.

Give me a name. Any name. Any name at all. Give me someone. Give me facts.

>The difference between "you should do that" and "some people do that and it's okay". It's rather subtle, but I don't think there's many rappers directly telling their audiences they should be pimpin.

Can you give me ANY modern examples, or...?

Can you even explain this subtlety by example? Give me two examples. One that promotes and one that portrays in a positive light.
>>
>>68034734
Because they think accessorizing with something "sofisticated" like an old-timey hat makes them look like they take care of their appearance.
I'm fairly certain they're trying to look smart, not thuggish.
>>
>>68034740
>implying this should not be a crime
>>
>>68016903

nobody made any big deal over it until the ultra-PC 90s

just like speedy gonzalez. the network just assumed speedy was an offensive mexican caricature and decided to pull all speedy cartoons before anybody could complain

then all these latin-americans came out of the woodwork to complain that there were no speedy cartoons. they love speedy

everyone loves speedy. except for the new The Looney Tunes Show speedy. he's kind of a dick
>>
>>68034740
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4QBRgyitFs
>>
>>68034764
>Give me a name. Any name. Any name at all. Give me someone. Give me facts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nibk75kDzEg
>>
>>68034555
Wait did they shop out her apron?
>>
>>68034790
To make her look less like Mammy.
>>
>>68034789

>Modern hip hop artists who enjoy the film Scarface

Yes? And?

How many of those artists are actively involved in organized crime?
>>
>>68034773
>everyone loves speedy. except for the new The Looney Tunes Show speedy. he's kind of a dick
he's ok, but it's pretty shitty he sells pizza instead of tacos, come on
>>
>>68034798
I feel like I'm on that debate someone posted earlier
>>
>>68034764
Joseph, a friend of mine. More relevant
>Fat Joe goes on to describe Tony Montana as the “ultimate ghetto superhero,”
>For example, in the segment titled “The Come Up,” which centers on Tony Montana’s rise from underling to boss, poverty to wealth, Nas remarks that “we all are savages in pursuit of the American dream, rappers relate to that because that’s how we come up.” Russell Simmons also adds that “hip-hop is about empowerment at all costs, and ‘Scarface’ was about empowerment at all costs, and when you see that, it kind of inspires you not to take no for an answer.” In the segment titled “Loyalty,” which explores Tony Montana’s allegiance toward his associates, Mister Cartoon reveals how “the machismo of Latinos is to be a man’s man…and to stay to your word,” and P. Diddy describes Tony as an “upstanding gangster” who “played by rules and morals.”

>GIVE ME EXAMPLES, I WANT ALL THE EXAMPLES
Jesus chill out. Why so fucking defensive.

>modern examples
If you mean "throughout the last year", no because I don't follow rap that closely. If you mean "throughout the last 20 years" I can give you many examples of rapppers portraying crime positively, yes. Snoop and 50 come to mind.

>Can you even explain this subtlety by example? Give me two examples. One that promotes and one that portrays in a positive light.
>I don't think there's many rappers directly telling their audiences they should be pimpin.
>>
>>68034732
>Anaconda is one of the most recent songs I can remember right now, by portraying drug dealing men as powerful and desirable.

Interestingly enough, the drug runner being described in Anaconda is a motorcyle riding, country boy who likes to let her play with his "rifle".

That's a real "thug" right there.

>>Also portraying it doesn't help matters if it's in a positive light. For that matter, The Godfather might have not promoted gangster lifestyle but it glamorized it. Many fans of Scarface are inspired by the movie, missing the point entirely.


Actually, Scarface and the Godfather represent the "classy" aspects of criminal life. When you're pretty much already living a criminal life, you can look to them as examples of how you don't have to be trashy to be a criminal.

But very rarely do people living comofrtable lives, who do not live in crime ridden areas, and do not feel any socio-economic pressure to engage in deliquent or criminal behvaior just turn around and decide to run cocaine so they can get rich.

That's what people do in Breaking Bad.
>>
>>68017564
>thought she was a dog for some reason.
So did I -- it was the palms.
>>
>>68034864
>But very rarely do people living comofrtable lives, who do not live in crime ridden areas, and do not feel any socio-economic pressure to engage in deliquent or criminal behvaior just turn around and decide to run cocaine so they can get rich.
I know at least 3 guys like that. Well 4 if you count me. In fact I'm literally going to work at the marijuana plantation later today. It's harvesting time.
I wouldn't really blame Scarface or Breaking Bad in my case, though. Maybe Cheech and Chong, Friday and How High?
>>
>>68034936

Marijuana is a whole other beast from most other drugs. It's practically legal.

Thanks in large part due to its popularity among and widespread consumption by non-minorities.
>>
>>68019371
>>68019397
>>68019433
People in the middle classes have the most to lose socially and financially from displaying open racism or any other unpopular opinion or antisocial behavior; poor people for the most part have nothing to gain, nothing to lose and the rich are the rich obviously and know they probably aren't going to suffer too much for anything they do.
>>
>>68034968
>People in the middle classes have the most to lose socially and financially from displaying open racism or any other unpopular opinion or antisocial behavior; poor people for the most part have nothing to gain, nothing to lose and the rich are the rich obviously and know they probably aren't going to suffer too much for anything they do.

Also the fact that the middle class are more likely to meet other people. The extremely wealthy and extremely poor are usually isolated (willingly and unwillingly) from the rest of society, run in entirely different social circles, have entirely different relationships with law enforcement, and generally hold a skewed view of how "the other half" lives.
>>
>>68035000
So what you're saying is that middle-class people are the best to judge the state of society? Tumblr is going to be giddy!
>>
>>68034962
>non-minorities
You mean white people?
>>
>>68034833

Are Fat Joe and P Diddy involved in organized crime? Maybe they just like the movie and the character?

If you can't give modern examples then what makes you think it's relevant?

What actual proof is there that this stuff causes people to commit crimes?
>>
>>68035016

No. I mean White straight Christian people. Not just white people.

Otherwise, you could also bash weed as being the drug of queers or heathens.
>>
I was pretty offended by Space Jam myself.
>>
>>68035029
Are you really going to argue with quotes from a cultural icon describing a criminal as “ultimate ghetto superhero,” and someone who “played by rules and morals.” and pretend they don't glorify crime?
Or did you expect me to specifically come up with an interview with a mafia boss who talks of his fondness for Scarface?
I've met petty criminals who were inspired by him as an examplary figure, that's all I got on this one.

>10 years ago is not modern
>what's not modern isn't relevant
>in a thread about racism in a cartoon of the 1940s

>What actual proof is there that this stuff causes people to commit crimes?
Fucking none, are you daft? Nobody argued that media forces people to commit crimes or that there is any direct causation, just that when it's portrayed in a positive manner or as a means to an end, people are more likely to see it as something good. Basic logic.

People commit crimes because they're assholes and/or because of their social environment. This environment means many things: could they profit from crime (are they poor? unlikely to get caught?)? Do they have easy access to crime? Is crime morally condemned among their community?
>>
>>68035076
Are you retarded?
>>
>>68017080
>story about a white person mentoring a black person
>Mighty Whitey, implies blacks need white guidance
>story about a black person mentoring a white person
>Magical Negro, implies blacks exist just to help the white hero
>>
>>68035274
>muh winning move not to play
Stop it. You can do either and some people will complain. Who fucking cares.
>>
>>68018915
Oh god... It's like she's pushing that marvelous black ass onto mah dick
>>
>>68018996
Is Mammy stealing from the owners of the house?
>>
>>68034531
>Try saying something (anything) about racial issues that doesn't fit their hivemind and all you get are memes and image macros as responses

Did you even read his post?

>Sure, we'll cap out your thread arguing your ideology is shit, but the discussion is always allowed. We get Libertarian threads, Communist threads, whatever, whenever. Everyone goes there to send their ideas through the barbs, see what comes out the other end.

There is no Pol hivemind, its called a vocal minority, mostly people sitting around without much better to do.
Being mainly /co/ or /tg/ when I want to see what the current buzz is politically I go to pol, and I IGNORE those kind of posts, and scroll down to find actual lengthy responses (usually people who take the time to express themselves more than a image macro or reaction image). If you don't run away at the first sign of opposition the trolls get bored and go elsewhere, unless they actually have an opinion to push and then its just the stone to grind your own viewpoint against, sharpening your resolve or making you rethink your position. Its thin-skinned people who expect every thread to just be people who agree with them that lead to censorship or silencing of opposition when they get any modicum of power.
>>
>>68035585
There is a /pol/ hivemind regarding race issues. Threads can be decent as long as you don't mention jews and blacks or argue about anything bad said about them. Otherwise you just get either trolls or 2000 words response about how you don't know shit, and really who has time to do the same explanation about how your experience is as valid as theirs every fucking time?

/pol/ can be fine when discussing actual politics because the users usually inform themselves on those topics. But as soon as race gets into it the discussion becomes completely sterile. At least that's been my experience over there.
>>
>>68033140
Being cute to humans is an evolutionary advantage second only to our own.
>>
>>68034936
This. As crimes go, producing drugs is safe, and really pays.
>>
>>68023099
The rich ones are in charge. You aren't.
>>
>>68033220
The Boondocks had an episode of that.
>>
>>68036035
Being useful to humans is even more of an advantage than being cute. See:cattle.
>>
>>68017143
>so many "nigga" and "uh"

Honestly, if it wasn't for those, I wouldn't roll my eyes at what they're saying. I can forgive some "uh"s because hell, even when you've memorized a speech your brain sometimes gets ahead of your mouth. But there are way too many of them. And just because you're black doesn't mean you have to use "nigga", ladies.

I'm having trouble understanding most of what the guys are saying because he's mumbling, so I can't tell if they're making a comprehensive argument. But that's just mumbling and nothing wrong with what's said. He wasn't saying "uh" or "nigga" every other word.
>>
>>68023447
>any grandmother of any race
>not solely caring about YOU'RE NOT EATING ENOUGH no matter how big you are

<blog>
Seriously, I never got to meet my dad's parents as they died when he was 16 and 18 due to health issues after surviving the Holocaust, but his one surviving aunt who became a surrogate mother to him and therefore became a surrogate grandmother to me, was always saying I'm not eating enough, I was skin and bones...even when I was a fatass at 200+ pounds. My grandmother on my mom's side was the same way (Mom was some form of Christian but converted as a surprise to my dad before marrying him) but most of her meals involved pork which meant no go for us. She was awesome, though. She taught me how to whistle, and even gave up smoking when I was nine to show support of a serious operation I needed.
</blog>
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>>68016609
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>>68018049
Pff, she wasnt going to a dinner. She went to the casino to throw some bones.
>>
>>68039178
Kike
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