Was it racist? What do you think of the censoring efforts: redubbing, sticking a white person over the top or cutting her scenes?
Personally, I never thought anything of it. I'd never seen a representation of a Mammy character anywhere else so I thought that's just what she was like the same way I just accepted any other cartoon character. It's unfair to treat cartoons from the 30s by today's standards and change them accordingly.
It's done it's over, changing a product that far after the fact I'd say is stupid. There doesn't really seemt o be any point in it. If you enjoy it you should just accept that's a part of something you liked even if you don't like it. If you want to show it to someone maybe you should just explain the context of the era.
Though I don't remember enough of her to make a current assessment of whether she was a giant negative stereotype or if she was simply a black woman in an ol Cartoon which we automatically assume is racist.
Though an anon did get me thinking about how we perceive racial caricatures as racist simply because we have the preconceived notion they're inherently racist.
>Was it racist?
No. Black maids were a thing in the 40's. They're still a thing today.
Buttblasted SJWs who whine and cry about representation but can't deal with it when it happens.
It honestly reminded me of one of my aunts.
Wears casual old lady clothing with slippers, a little heavy like a regular older lady, owns a big house with a cat. She isn't black though.
I didn't know it was supposed to be offensive until I was 15.
I liked the disclaimer WB has on its old cartoon, it said something about how they wont change it but show it cause ignoring it worse. It was something to that effect but it was classy.
But to answer your question no its not. I dont think even blacks make a big deal about it
Pretty much same as you OP.
I honestly had no idea the mammy character was a racist stereotype as a kid (I'm a Yuro). Just a cartoon character who happenened to be a fat black woman working as help.
It's not like fat black women working as help never existed (or don't still exist), and her actions and reactions to what was happening were just human, never stroke me as particularly black or something.
What's peculiar is that on the other hand, Pepe the Rape is still French.
Ask any child after watching this if they got some sort of negative connotation from the woman. If she was portrayed in a manner that would change that child's perspective of a certain person, let alone a representation of people.
I find censoring it more offensive and racist, really.
Don't you know,black people can't have low paying jobs in media. That's racist.
They all need to be high executives,leaders or movie,music and sport stars.
When I was a kid,she was just the owner of the house for me. It's cool to be kid and to not have your mind full of prejudice,about what black people should be.
For that matter, instead of black maids there's lots of portrayals of mexican maids in current media. So the double standard is still there.
"Sure, we can't use this minority, but we can use this other minority instead for the same effect"
>have a maid in your story
>cant cast black maids because its racists
>cant cast mexicans because its racists
>cant cast whites because its whitewashing
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
>but didnt the fat girl in that mexican guys trial speak ebonics?
What are you talking about now?
>and you do realize ooga booga bix nood is a real african language right?
Seriously, what the fuck?
I'm talking about the "you is a bad boy, Thomas" and stuff like that. Ebonics (African American Vernacular English if you prefer) as a creole of English.
Don't think it really is racist but even if it were it's another question if we should censor it.
Obviously people used to be racist, misogynist, antisemite and all of that junk in the past (compared to now). Although that being the past norm doesn't make it justified today atleast we should be able to enjoy the works with those dated values in them. I mean if you go into the classic section of the library and pluck out all authors who were racist, misogynist or whatever, the selection would be quite small.
Bottom line, let's not try to deny the values that existed in the past, but make kids learn a little something from it.
>or derived from southern US accents
>he actually believes this
It's how a lot of debate clubs work.
I saw a brief documentary on it one time. It's not even about really discussing the subjects anymore. The winner is the first one who can lead the opposing person's logic to ending in nuclear war or something.
yeah but at what point did the tom and jerry cartoons portrayed mammy two shoes in a negative or racist light? most of the kids don't even realize she's supposed to be a maid if she even happens to be one. I'd understand if it was a cartoon like that one when Bugs Bunny plays blackface.
The redubbing bothered me, but not as much as it sounded like they just grabbed the first woman they could find off the street and stuck her in the recording booth. It sounded like she was reading off a cue card at a 2nd grade level.
That short is also fucking great.
Great music, animation and humor. It's a shame people will focus on the Black people caricatures when EVERYONE had goofy caricatures and stereotypes in cartoons from the 40/50s.
I agree with this, and I think the image included is hilarious.
If you want to be sensitive about the material, include a disclaimer explaining that the cartoon is a product of its time. I think Warner Bros. did this for their questionable cartoons.
It's not supposed to be offensive. It's supposed to be entertaining. Nobody made Tom and Jerry with the thought "I'm going to try to piss people off by putting a caricature of a black stereotype in this cartoon." They said "Let's see, who do I make Tom's owner? Let's go with a standard black mammy- they're funny when they're threatening."
Soon, black people will never appear in anything. Ever. Because they're all censored out because everyone complains about how they're portrayed.
I grew up watching her. She was a figure of authority, not a slave in my childhood eyes. One they sometimes made fun of, but in 'exactly' the same way they'd make an upstart rich white businessman look foolish in these things.
If you remove all "stereotypical" behavior, you'll have black people who behave exactly like whites, and people will complain that aspects of their unique culture and race identity aren't being properly represented. Doesn't matter if the traits removed are "negative" or "positive" you'll get people who complain that they're generic and non unique now.
If you leave them with their more unique cultural aspects, you'll have people who complain and censor that too, regardless of if those things are personally positive aspects for the character or not. (An otherwise moral upright black man who speaks with any sort of ebonics, or hell sometimes even an African accent).
If you cut them out entirely, you'll have people complain they're then not represented on TV at all. Is that the end they want? Because if they keep doing this, that's what they'll get.
It just needs to stop.
I'm confused now: Does Mammy just work in the same house as Tom as a maid or is that her own house? I'll believe she's someone's help but I thought the house was hers. I kind of thought that place she was always going was to work for someone.
this, I don't get why everyone goes was this racist? when it's clear that's her house, hell it even looks like she's rich I remember on one of the old episodes she goes to a dinner on town or something and she was pretty well dressed
It sort of is but that doesn't mean it has to be censored. Eventually you get to a point where you realize the main nonthug black representation in media are the Cosbys and Morgan Freeman the magical negro and go wtf.
>This thread is terrible.
I love it.
Calling it racist is not just a product of modern PC because Mammy was already being censored from TV in the '60s (they reanimated her and redubbed her to be white and Irish).
It's not malicious and it doesn't mean AMERICA WAS A TERRIBLE PLACE back then, it's just kind of a hacky stereotype of the way black people talked, and by the '50s there was already pressure on movies and TV to get away from that stereotype (you still had black maid characters, of course, but they didn't talk quite so broad). I don't think it's going to corrupt our children to see a cartoon with her.
>What the fuck is happening with your education system america
Money pump. Like prisons, or mental health care in the UK.
It's the Mammy stereotype. It was a popular one back in the old old days because it was a way of making black people seem quaint and harmless as opposed to scary animalistic ones. Mammy is dumb but well-meaning, she's subservient and likes keeping house and looking after white kids.
I know it's a joke made by a jew but niggerspeak is actually considered it's own language thanks to the cultural segregation that they've had for the several generations they've been in america. So no wonder it's so hard to understand.
This isn't because of some kind of lack of intelligence but simply an adaptation of another language.
>Was it racist?
No. It's just like with the crows who seen 'bout everything, it isn't racist when it's an accurate representation of the culture of the people of the time.
>Is giving a French character a French accent racist?
>Is giving a German character a German accent racist?
No. In fact, getting in a bitchfit about harmless stereotypes is racist, since you are suggesting there is something wrong with the culture, when it obviously exists.
Aan hubiyay, naftayda in la Google turjumo.
Waxaa dhab ahaantii waxa ay tilmaamaysaa sida Soomaaliya oo loo tarjumo in.
Maxaa shire ah.
The day /pol/ discovered this was pretty fun
To add, see >>68016962, if anything the one's calling this shit is racist, because they make retarded assumptions about race.
No it's not, ignorance is ignorance. If there is any race I dislike most it is the white one, in particular middle-class white girls. What a horrid sub-culture.
>Hoop doesn't translate to SUPERSTAR anymore
I guess google caught on
Wow, but if I'm honest it seems like it might actually be pretty complex, since it is so context dependent.
>Be too too too too to be
>Be too too too to be
Imagine if they both made complete sense and make rather different things.
Poor people typically are.
What about a continent of impoverished and uneducated people being racist as fuck surprises you?
Did you seriously think that africans wouldn't be racist for some reason?
Vaguely related: Is it true that Mexicans love Speedy Gonzales and don't find him offensive at all?
The poor and the rich don't get out much outside their limited social circles and so don't have much real world experience to disprove whatever boogeymen they have in their heads.
well WB had SJW up in there ass and removed him...but mexicans got pissed by this saying 'ey homes why you hate us so much ese...trying to erase us mexicans from kids huh?'
so they brought him back.
>Ebonics as a creole of English
You either live in an all-white area or have somehow never visited the south. Millions of black people speak in Ebonics AND make fun of people for "talking white."
Irish stereotypes weren't as un-PC in the '60s as black stereotypes were.
Different stereotypes go out of style at different times. You could still do the most outrageous Asian stereotypes in the '80s in comics and movies, 30 years after you'd get in trouble for that kind of stereotyping of black characters.
The stereotypical Gypsy character is a sterotype who only recently started to go out of fashion.
And of course some stereotypes become un-PC and then become PC again.
I grew up in a hispanic household and was raised on the old Looney Tunes cartoons and I can safely say, everyone loved Speedy Gonzales.
I think the only people who found him offensive was the, big surprise, Ultra PC white people a-holes.
"In 1942, during the height of anti-Japanese sentiment during World War II, I was approached in Hollywood by the cast of an all-black musical off-broadway production called Jump For Joy while they were doing some special performances in Los Angeles. They asked me why there weren't any Warner's cartoons with black characters and I didn't have any good answer for that question. So we sat down together and came up with a parody of Disney's "Snow White" and "Coal Black" was the result. They did all the voices for that cartoon, even though Mel Blanc's contract with Warners gave him sole voice credit for all Warners cartoons by then. There was nothing racist or disrespectful toward blacks intended in that film at all, nor in Tin Pan Alley Cats which is just a parody of jazz piano great Fats Waller, who was always hamming into the camera during his musical films. Everybody, including blacks had a good time when these cartoons first came out. All the controversy about these two cartoons has developed in later years merely because of changing attitudes toward black civil rights that have happened since then."
It's a fantastic short and Bob Clampett was a great guy. But all of that is overshadowed because of changing ideas of political correctness. What a shame.
I'd white wash her if you know what I mean.
In the old days it was minorities who got offended. They led the charge against blackface and other stereotypes that white people were so used to, they didn't even realize they were offensive to anybody.
But that's when these films were new. Once they were old, yeah, it's probably mostly white people who get upset about them. Not to say that no Indians get upset about the way they were portrayed in old Westerns, etc., but for most people the priority is worrying about stuff that's on right now, and reflects how a group is thought of today. Yelling about the attitudes of 50 or 100 or 200 years ago is something you do in college.
>What the fuck is happening with your education system america
A lot of things.
Politically-motivated armchair activists insist on teaching children the importance of hating their country and being afraid of offending people's feelings.
Lowering standards (because standards are racist) has DESTROYED America's youthful prospects. My brother's a teacher, he sees it every day. What's worse is teachers are prevented from raising the bar or holding their children accountable due to above bureaucratic hell.
There's way too much emphasis on emotional health. It's comical. You can't say "No, 2+2 does not equal 5" any more. You have to ask the kid "Hmm, now how did you get there? Walk me through your thought process" or take them aside after class and gently explain why 2+2 does not equal 5.
SJWs have complete control over the American education system and it's all over. Not even going to post Ron Paul.
>In the old days it was minorities who got offended
Maybe because blackface and other stereotypes were used as propaganda to propagate racial oppression.
Fuck you for making me use that word, lol.
I was very depressed. All the time. I hated myself and I didn't feel like there was anything I could ever do to not hate myself. I was always going to be an oppressor, a more privileged person, whatever. I felt like debris, and it's how most SJWs see white people - stuff in the way.
I couldn't deal with it any more. Stuff hurts you, man. It's not good for you.
Hey now, buddy. I like Steven Universe. And I'm conservative.
I'm a socially conservative Democrat. That means everyone hates me. Tumblr thinks I'm a Nazi. The Tea Party thinks I'm a communist.
The lefties don't like me because I'm pro-gun, pro-life, I go to Church, and I think the government should stay out of Church business.
The righties don't like me because I'm anti-war, anti-death penalty, I think the Church should stay out of government business, and I don't think rich people should get tax breaks.
Don't put me in a box. I own three assault rifles and Pearl is my waifu.
Hardcore SJW always did strike me as incredibly insufferable, miserable people. I mean to spend every single day being offended by EVERYTHING would just suck the life out of you. It's not a healthy viewpoint to have so it's fortunate you got out.
Oh, I know 4chan is a cesspool, don't get me wrong but with 4chan, you basically got assholes acting like assholes, and occasionally do find a good thread with legit conversations.
Tumblrites like to think of themselves of progressive and accepting of others but as many, many, many people can attest to, they are quite the opposite.
The best thing we can hope for is that they come face to face with reality and get some sense slapped into them.
Fuck, I like her.
I always liked her voice.
Who voiced her?
>"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals."
4chan treats you like scum that needs to take responsibility for itself, because you could do better even if you probably won't.
tumblr treats you like scum who need to be administered like violent criminals - administered by them.
>I never realized that it wasn't her house. I just knew the cartoons were boring.
it was her house. There was an episode where she went out to play cards with her friends and Tom held a big party at the house. Jerry called her on the phone, she heard the racket, and she came running home and beat the shit out of Tom.
I liked the old lady. She was a mammy stereotype, but not exactly a mean spirited one.
She actually reminded me of both my grandmothers.
So does this mean Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben are racist? Maybe I should consult /ck/
What will it take for political correctness to die? Not a single good thing has come from it. All it has done is breed weakness and yet nothing has been strong enough to kill it.
Technically >>68017182 is correct.
Not saying that isn't necessarily a language, but if one is to speak English they should speaking in a clear neutral manner. Or at least speak so others can communicate with you with as little frustration as possible.
Speak to the heavily accented Scots sometime. I wonder how they manage to get things done when you're guessing half of what they're saying.
>All it has done is breed weakness and yet nothing has been strong enough to kill it.
Shit's symbiotic, the only way you can kill it is with forceful removal or starving it.
I'm sure in the old days they didn't get offended and Tom and goddamn fucking Jerry, they had bigger things to worry about like actual racism and klansmen trying to slit their throat and hang them.
Progressives have gone full circle and have become conservative.
>implying it was ever about being cool
People here said "nigger" as often as you say "the", "of", or "and". It was vernacular. You had to have known this before you came here. if you didn't, you're beyond help, and if you did, what possessed you to come here? Clearly it wasn't any notion of free speech that drew you here.
On a related note, I do wonder what Mexicans think of Baba Looey...
There's a thought. We use the word "nigger" so often here that it doesn't mean a damn thing anymore. Is that a good thing? We've taken all the venom from what some people regard as the ugliest word in the English language.
instead of being offended, it's instead treated as just another word without a hurtful meaning.
Basically 4chan's response is growing a thicker skin, while tumblr and SJW's response is getting pissy over the slightest thing.
of course it's not racist, but it is a stereotype
but stereotypes arent as bad as racism. most of the time theyre true of a lot of people. just as long as you don't think that's everyone. But back then, chances are, you go into any kitchen and see a big fat black lady with a headscarf and a sassy attitude. it's the truth, and you can't censor the truth.
Racist? No. Stereotypical? Yeah. Should anyone give a shit? No.
Tumblrtards will make a big deal out of it though.
Remember when it was the conservatives that censored stuff and liberals trying to keep everything uncensored instead of vice versa?
As someone who's not American, nor is old enough to have watched Gone With The Wind when it was released, I never found Mammy racist at all.
Mainly because she never seemed to be anybody's servant. For all we know, it's HER house.
I like the thing they gave at the start of the dvds
>This shit happened. It was bad. It's history. If we pretend history didn't happen, we're not being fair to the people that lived through it. We're not being fair to the people that fought and died to change it. And then how are we going to learn from history?
But dumb bitches on the internet need something to complain about, I guess.
Anger fosters more anger. It becomes sort of a drug. And there's plenty of people on /co/ getting angry at stupid shit, let's not pretend the contrary.
The higher ground of being "honest" and "hardcore", or whatever this place wants to call itself to pretend we aren't hipsters, isn't *much* better than those assholes over at tumblr. Only as much as self-loathing is better than (pretend) self-loving.
4chan doesn't advocate for anything but suicide and nudity, over all. You little shits are terrible at this stuff, I swear.
it depends on which Aunt Jemima
the character's originally from a Minstrel show, so vintage Jemima is... questionable.
Modern-day versions where they're not "AW LAWDY MASSA, I'S SHO' NUFF LOVE THA COOKIN'" are fine.
>Uncle Ben’s products carry the image of an elderly African-American man dressed in a bow tie, said to have been the visage of a Chicago maître d’hôtel named Frank Brown. According to Mars, Uncle Ben was an African-American rice grower known for the quality of his rice. Gordon L. Harwell, an entrepreneur who had supplied rice to the armed forces in World War II, chose the name Uncle Ben’s as a means to expand his marketing efforts to the general public. "Uncle" was a common appellation used in the Southern United States to refer to older male Black slaves or servants.
I am Spanish and growing up nobody in my family had a problem with Speedy Gonzales. My grandma on the other hand hated his cousin Slowpoke because she thought it made people think Mexicans were lazy drunks.
But millions of those latinos *are* the people living in the mountains.
And what the fuck is this, the 90's? People being insulted by being called natives should grow a fucking skin.
what stereotype? On the cartoons I saw on my country, the only lazy mouse was Slowpoke and even then, he was smart as fuck. All the others were hungry/couldn't save themselves from the Gato Malo.
>the stereotype that mexicans are fast runners?
In the 1950s it was a racist "opposite joke." The gag was that a Mexican was fast and nobody expected it. Opposite of the norm. Like Casper the Friendly Ghost.
Of course! We are latinos! We have the same culture, the same history, the same language, the same religion, the same clothes. We sold our huge variety for the sake of common identity.
In my experience, what that "huge variety" lead to in actual practice was talking shit about every other central/south american countries. The most racist stuff I've heard hasn't come from whites, it's from latinos about other latinos. Keep tradition alive all you want, but keeping old prejudices alive seems like such a waste of time.
I never said the languages were dead. I said few people spoke them. 10 million speakers is few compared to the number who speak Spanish, thus, there is no reason the poster shouldn't think of Spanish as the language of his people.
Or minorities trying to me more like white people. Yoe see this with immigrants vs. Second-generation Americans a lot. The Kids want to blend into white culture, and get unconfortable about the stereotypes, while the older folks don't see the problem, because they see the stereotype as almost accurate.
As an Irishman, am I supposed to be offended by Lucky the Leprechaun?
Because I always buy Lucky Charms when I'm in the states.
You know we got more Cubans than Cuba and more Filipinos than the Philippines, now. We're more like a petri dish than a melting pot. Still, we'll die last to the super flu with all the immunities and wide open spaces to run to.
Yeah, this thing reached the point where kids wouldn't even know it was racist unless they are explicitly told and explained it as such. They just see a black woman from the south who owns a cat and is unsatisfied with it's performance as a mouse catcher.
The closest I came to any meta analysis was wondering what a cat who could be a cowboy would have an owner and catch mice. Being a cowboy seemed a much better idea to me at 6 and I guess I assumed it was sequential or something?
Mildly racist in that it was a stereotype, but didn't seem particularly harmful or offensive. Anyone who would be offended by her is just being, for lack of a lazier term, triggered.
Obviously being a cartoon show soccer moms had to change it to preserve the innocence of the children (the children who would have no reason to find it offensive or degrading in any way), but are really just playing to their own guilt. Doesn't really bother me. They're benign.
American Mick here. I think from what my brief forray into a SJW space told me, St. Patricks day is the real problem.
Everybody wants to be Irish that day and lets face it, we American's are gonna get shitfaced every holiday, it's just more acknowledged on that one. Our days of white niggerdom are over.
Anon, don't give me ideas.
A motivated drawfag is a double-edged weapon, you know.
Charles Manson was fucking right.
There is actually going to be a civil war of White against Black if the Americans keep the PC bullshit.
No. It's going to be whites against whites using blacks as an excuse. And the latter is going to win because it's mostly dumb women and the former will white knight the fuck out of them for pussy.
Surprisingly, a lot of minorities hate the politically correct bullshit since it implies that minorities are sissies who can't stand seeing anything that counters their views.
Hell, the "don't wear an american flag shirt cuz it somehow offends foreigners" law got protested by minorities wearing the exact same shirt.
I assume something in California or New York
Can't offend those Chicanos who think Cinco de Mayo is a big holiday and claim to be Aztec warriors but can't speak the Aztec language
And of course in New York- what if you offend the Puerto Ricans? It doesn't matter that all Puerto Ricans are citizens, because maybe they'll still take offense!
Yes, it was racist, but it's also our history. And you can't rewrite history, you can only try to learn from it and create a better future.
The problem there is that calling "the n word" ugly implies we still live in Jim Crow and black people go to prison just for looking at white people the wrong way (which SJWs would claim happens)
Detravious, Ladarious and all the other stupidly named ghetto trash deserve to be called the "n word" and any middle class black person who gets offended at trash being called trash also deserves to be called the "n word"
Blacks are no longer poor innocent people maligned by a racist system but assholes looking to make a quick buck whenever they think they can claim whitey is being racist
Or you can realize it wasn't all that racist and allowing people to label it as such only fuels the outrage industry and related academia, keeping lazy people in jobs which shouldn't exist
I noticed a lot of black names always have something unnecessary in the beginning of a already normal name
Can someone care to explain this to a black but very white anon
>the outrage industry
>Blacks are no longer poor innocent people maligned by a racist system but assholes looking to make a quick buck whenever they think they can claim whitey is being racist
Neither of those is true. The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle.
Well he's not wrong, there are always people looking to get pissed about any little fucking thing and call it racist, sexist, homophobic, anti-christian, anti-semetic, whatever.
And just blindly labeling any depiction of a minority racist without looking at any of the context or how individuals of that particular group feel only serves to let them profit or feel validated.
>if I call him /pol/ then that means academia and media hasn't constantly been pushing new "look at this klansman being a klansman" stories in the news and textbooks for 50 years to justify the existence of useless college majors and diversity officers and other crap
You are an idiot, as expected of a tripfag
You're saying Africans can't be niggers?
The outrage industry relies on instances of "white racism" to keep itself going
It pounds a few cases of whites killing blacks whether justified or not and ignores the thousands of deaths in the ghetto because those are just statistics
With outrage they push a narrative and get ratings which fuels American media because American news media relies on private investment to keep going
The result of such cases in academia adds fuel to student faggotry and retarded attempts to relive the 1960s and useless professors of multicultural studies being able to justify their worthless existence by claiming racism is still pervasive in society
Occasionally such professors will point out the existence of the private prison industry as an example of racism. Students never bother to protest this as it isn't actually trendy to do so and thus the prison industry also makes big bucks. In a way the existence of that industry helps keep SJW academia alive.
I don't think a soldier in a civil war is a nigger
At this point niggery seems associated with being a black first worlder, especially in mostly white countries, and being entirely useless and whiny about the dumbest things
Africans don't usually have a choice in the things which ruin their countries, like Slavic people or Latin Americans
In contrast chicanos in LA and Poles in the UK have a choice to not be useless gangsters but choose to be violent and stupid anyway, resulting in the law cracking down on them and them complaining "The Man" is out to get them
I'm just curious.
Is showing any instance of racism just a part of outrage industry? I can understand if you're talking about certain shit where a white guy kills a black guy and they just read racist motives into it. But was this legitimately a case where a black dude got lynched for dating a white chick?
Day laborer Mexican seems to be okay. No one give a fuck about them, not even regular mexicans.
No, because this has only happened here and not in the real world. Doesn't matter how good you are at hiding your powerlevel; if you become desensitized to using hurtful words like "nigger" and "faggot" on the internet you're more likely to use them in real life, which may lead to unpleasant scenarios since well-adjusted people have very, very little patience for edgelords.
Using a term that accuses people of making money is an innovative approach, at least.
There was a Bosnian man beaten to death for being white in St. Louis recently also
The outrage industry is not concerned about that, yet the lynching of said black man will likely become major news very soon to pile on top of Tamir Rice, Eric Garner and that fat black guy who attacked a cop
Both are instances of racism, but the outrage industry is concerned with the narrative of "white racists, black victims- Jim Crow lives!" because it sells sells sells
In a world that was actually just neither Trayvon nor that guy in Ferguson would be news and all instances of racial hatred would be equally condemned
Instead the media plays it for ratings- and if the blacks riot because of media sensationalism then those are even more ratings! And if the KKK does a march? Then even more ratings!
Rile people up, get them to be stupid, suppress facts which get in the way of people's feelings and you get outrage which then translates into people constantly tuning in every day to see what they need to get angry about- but of course this outrage tends to be "the good kind" which allows people to feel self-righteous.
>I'm too stupid to understand so I'll just say he is a le /pol/ boogeyman lol
Can I call you an SJW then?
The thing is, he's not wrong. The media on both sides of the aisle does sensationalize black/white crime. But he has to be an edgy extremist teen that thinks he has it all figured out and can't realize that both sides have a point.
The reason no one reports on black on black crime is because there's no white people to give it a human interest angle. (White on White crime gets framed as "gun control" or "women's rights" or some other angle.). it's the fault of the 24 hour news cycle making mountains of of molehills, and making everyone aggro for views. All media and academia, liberal, conservative, or otherwise, needs to monetize and so to do that they go after their bases and report on the same things as viewed through different polarized lenses.
Actually, most people nowadays don't care about the word. Unless the person saying it is actually being racist, even then, they're more upset at someone acting so archaic and in the past more so than a word that has lost a lot of its former bite.
Yeah Slowpoke Rodriguez was friggin awesome. He's in a show all about how fast Speedy is and he subverts everything and he carried a gun. The only people who are offended by him are white people and latinos that are told to be offended by white people.
As a Mexican I remember thinking I was black because in school all you would hear about was MLK and the civil right's movement. Then growing up, you'd hear about how a show was showing diversity by adding a black character. Then as I got older I learned that I was something else and that black people hated Mexicans and all the shit I learned in school was kind of one sided and the real world isn't black and white.
lel just like how asians talk shit about other asians and how whites talk shit about other whites and how the non american blacks that I know, also talk shit about niggers. It's a weird thing.
It's funny once you learn about Cinco De Mayo's history, it's not even a Mexican (as in Mexico) celebration. It was started in California to show solidarity with the Union during the Civil War. Since Mexico had outlawed slavery prior to the Spanish American war and the Treaty of Guadalupe. I just laugh when I see third gen Mexican's yelling viva la mexico fuck america on Cinco De Mayo, I'm just like, this was actually a way of integrating the newly "acquired" Mexican's into the American culture.
>wanted Tom to eat shit
THIS. I didn't even remember her voice or being a mammy, I just remember her being abusive as fuck to a poor cat
Is that like an inside out panda?
There are still dinosaur characters, and dodo characters. At least we won't forget them.
We should breed them to eat and cultivate corn. Problem solved.
I don't get what you're saying.
Racism was somehow LESS terrible for black people in the 30s? That since racism was so widespread, this cartoon had much more potential to do evil stuff - and it's somehow LESS bad?
What the fuck are you talking about?
Or maybe move on, remove nostalgia glasses and realize that just because you liked something as a child it's not immune from criticism.
While there is no Aunt Jemima, there is a Nancy Green. She was hired to offer her likeness to Aunt Jemima products, which were named after a song from a minstrel show.
Nancy Green was born into slavery before being emancipated and hired. She traveled around the country promoting Aunt Jemima products and telling stories. She was known for her amicable personality and her storytelling talent.
This made her one of the most financially successful African-Americans at the time and the money she received allowed her to also become a philanthropist. She donated to and engaged in many anti-poverty campaigns.
>More potential to do evil stuff
How in the fuck does this character do anything evil?
Especially when there have been plenty of people in the world who talk and behave so similarly to her.
There was racism in the 1930s. This character, however, isn't racist. There's nothing racist about it. It harms no one.
Why shouldn't black people who behave like that get equal representation? Isn't that discrimination?
Why should I not be allowed in media just because I speak a little 'hood'?
Should Mr. Chi City be banned from Youtube? Is he too real for you?
I don't think many people know much about pandas but honestly good riddance
they evolved by what could be considered a fluke
they don't do anything
they serve no purpose in nature
no natural predators because of where they evolved
all they fucking do is eat bamboo and die
the money and effort going to keep pandas alive could go into other species that deserve and need it much more
In truth, BET is shit on a lot by the black community (the educated ones, anyway) because it continuously produced shows and promoted music videos that showcased the worst facet of African American culture and the channel degraded blacks in general. BET was pretty much responsible for helping to create this massive sinkhole within the community where blacks are divided among themselves.
The Boondocks highlighted this fact. Huey represents an educated black person, while Riley represents the byproduct of the BET/NWA era. He's arguably the funniest character on the show, but if you look through the facade, you'll realize that Riley is a sad excuse for a black kid. Black BET execs essentially sold their own race out to make money.
I mean, notice how you think that shit is representative of the culture; it isn't. It is a subset of african american culture that just so happens to be very large right now. Look at several "black" shows from the late 80s to mid 90s. They're vastly different.
Fresh prince of bel air, cosby show, a different world, Martin, etc -- these shows weren't caricatures of black people and actively condemned negative stereotypes. They were also unbelievably hilarious. BET was a contributing factor that destroyed that ideal.
Now you have a generation of black kids who think BET was/is the best representation of black people and they aspire to be like that. Seriously, it's fucked up. Why do you think every African/Islander FOB distances themselves from African Americans? Culturally, they're considered a fucking disgrace.
>Fresh prince of bel air, cosby show, a different world, Martin, etc -- these shows weren't caricatures of black people and actively condemned negative stereotypes.
They were also widely criticized as preachy, overly "safe", and very distant from the average lived black experience.
>he worst facet of African American culture
In their opinion. Which I guess is more important than most black people's because they're educated and 'elite'.
>and the channel degraded blacks in general
Content produced by blacks is just so degrading to blacks, huh?
>massive sinkhole within the community where blacks are divided among themselves.
Thanks to the elitists who hated the channel for not being up to their subjective standards.
>Hey, let's have a channel with black content produced by actual black people!
>What? No. Stop. That is not the right content. Let's change it to black content produced by the RIGHT black people.
For any show, you'll always have criticisms and detractors who want the status quo to be met. Blacks genuinely have a crab in a barrel mentality, the lot of them; they'd rather see you fail with them than succeed without them. This isn't new, either. Many hip hop artists have spoken about this fact in the black community that they're willing to tear one another down for the sake of watching them fail.
Those collection of shows are now constantly missed by black people of today and they always reminisce about them. You don't see that facet of black culture being cultivated or shown anymore. Everyone fulfills a stereotype on shows nowadays.
Sir, I am a southern white and I find that offensive.
Pop country sucks ass.
I listen to classic country and alt country. Hank the 3rd is takin' it back.
Accurate so long as we pretend the the distinct group is the entirety, ignore any and all evidence to the contrary, and actively discourage even the discussion that maybe shit ain't reflective of reality, sure.
If I suggest that all white people are Jersey Shore rejects or Jeff Foxworthy punchlines, that's stupid. But the inverse isn't for some reasons that are beyond me.
>Bunch of white gated community guys passing judgement on what is to be considered racist and what isn't
I think that's an inspiring message. Money doesn't always change you. Some folks, the honest folks, just stay the same.
Love that show. Bought Miss Kay's cookbook and made duck gumbo. It was amazing.
You're actually twisting my words in an attempt to prove a futile point that has absolutely no merit. In addition, you're also making false conjectures on my thought process as if you know me personally. Instead of actually addressing me on the topic, you instead seek an agenda to push while simultaneously sullying my words. This is the exact reason why you SJW people are denounced and considered the worst of the worst because you escape the main target of an issue or debate by interjecting unfounded assumptions. I never even mentioned elitism in my posts. I didn't even think of the word.
Secondly, your point apparently amounts to, "let's showcase the most horrible attributes of our culture and let us not even represent the best parts of who we are or what we represent." There has been no culture on earth other than African Americans and their idiotic sympathizers, liberals who tag #AllLivesMatter, who actually promotes this type of backwards thinking. BET didn't even showcase the positive attributes of black people; it exclusively showcased only the worst. It wasn't even a representative of AA culture entirely and that's probably one of the greater crimes it has committed. It lumped blacks into one standard stereotype and that stereotype happened to be negative.
And let me clarify this for the anons debating with me: I'm the son of a Jamaican woman and Dominican man. I've lived in NYC my entire fucking life.
I'm not on the outside passing judgment as if I'm some white guy who lives in the suburbs; I live in the fucking community. I am black. I speak from experience and from looking at this shit from the inside.
>most horrible parts of our culture
The problem is that is subjective. Who is determining what the 'bad parts' are? Why do they get to determine it?
What is the scientific scale for measuring the moral quality of 'black culture'?
Seems like it's just a bunch of elitists who want black culture to fit their standards instead of being something that is a true representation of its population. That's the issue.
You get a bunch of black people who are fine with it and a vocal minority who want it abolished and think they have authority on the matter because they happen to be rich and have gone to the 'right schools'.
Here's the thing. That "opinions" defense might work if not for the fact that the rest of the world treats us like shit because of those negative stereotypes. Just because some people are willing to further their propagation doesn't make them right because of a difference of opinion.
The "elitists" get to determine it because it's damaging them. And it's not a true representation. Not of the whole. Not unless all white people are gun toting PBR swilling meth heads in tar paper shacks.
>That "opinions" defense might work if not for the fact that the rest of the world treats us like shit because of those negative stereotypes.
Victim blaming. Why should we change to avoid being persecuted? Why shouldn't THEY stop being prejudice?
>The "elitists" get to determine it because it's damaging them.
That doesn't mean they are in charge. They don't get to make the rules. No matter how much it damages them, it damages people lower on the ladder more.
And people lower on the ladder tend to accept black culture entirely instead of dissecting it until it meets their arbitrary standards.
yeah, how dare they have an opinion on something instead of laying down and taking their beatings like a good politically correct ally
they should just all admit they're actual nazis that abort black babies in their spare time like all those white people are
>Not unless all white people are gun toting PBR swilling meth heads in tar paper shacks.
Well so the fuck what? They exist, don't they? Why don't they get representation too? Who says they don't? Who is the authority here and why do they get to have the authority?
Why are we suddenly deciding that minority voices overrule the majority within each ethnic culture?
Why do you think you're more important than lower class people?
You are not arguing. You're just expressing incredulity.
>Negatively affect people's perceptions
Why should we stop doing things because they change how people think of us? Why shouldn't THEY stop thinking of us negatively based on their conceptions of culture?
>No, don't play Wu Tang! That makes people think less of you!
Well how about they stop thinking less of me because I listen to the Wu Tang Clan?
See, that's how we can tell you're actually white. Because you think that's how it works for other races.
For some reason, White people alone can be fuckups without it reflecting poorly on every other white person. It'd be great if that were the case. But it isn't.
And for the record no one gives a shit what "you" listen to. (Especially not wu-tang clan. They're nothing to fuck with.) We give a shit about you acting like books are kryptonite and bragging like being to jail is some major accomplishment that you should be proud of. We give a shit when "you" treat "us" like traitors for going to school and not having a bunch of kids running around because of your ass backwards crab bucket mentality that's keeping everybody down, perpetuated in large part by what "you're" dumb enough to think of as empowering entertainment reflective of a reality and not just some deferred dreams and table scraps left from real culture.
>White people alone can be fuckups without it reflecting poorly on every other white person.
How in the hell is it that you think that? What with 'white privilege' being a widely discussed thing?
>We give a shit about you acting like books are kryptonite and bragging like being to jail is some major accomplishment that you should be proud of.
And black people making their own content for BET reinforces this...how?
And who are you to say that it's an absolute bad thing and it shouldn't be done?
Isn't it immoral to try and police a population for your own benefit?
Well sorry the world isn't a hugbox. People's opinions are mutually exclusive from how you feel about the matter.
I don't care what you make or want to watch, but you should at least be aware what people will think of you if you go around acting like a stereotypical nigger.
>See, that's how we can tell you're actually white.
One, you can't actually tell that. And it's racist to assume that only white people act in certain ways.
Two, why does it matter and why does it lessen the effect of his argument?
You're behaving in an authoritarian way. People should be free to produce the content they want.
>but you should at least be aware what people will think of you if you go around acting like a stereotypical nigger.
So, victim blaming. Gotcha.
No, you are not allowed to act this way! Stop that! Act in THIS way! It's better because everyone else says so!
>White people alone can be fuckups without it reflecting poorly on every other white person
Just what drew you to this conclusion? Give an example.
So, a redneck with a mullet does something stupid.
And a ghetto black guy does something stupid.
So, people WON'T assume that the well-dressed, well-spoken white man in the expensive suit is low-class or backwards.
But they WILL assume the well-dressed, well-spoken black man in the expensive suit is?
Give an example of this actually happening.
You're not talking about racism. You are talking about classism. I think you are a classist.
Oh boo fucking hoo. If you act like a jackass people are going to treat you like one. I respect your right to act however you want, but, again, I'm not going to respect you if you don't act in manner worthy of my respect. White, black, whatever.
>But they WILL assume the well-dressed, well-spoken black man in the expensive suit is?
>Give an example of this actually happening.
I've shown up to jury duty and people assume I'm on trial. I go to my substitute teaching job and have security follow me around despite the loafers and tie.
But yeah, nah, it doesn't happen. You're totally right.
How does that prove anything? What if a white person went to jury duty and they assumed he was on trial because he still looked a little rough or burly? Does that never happen? Can you prove it doesn't?
You're only presenting anecdotal evidence, which is not really evidence. Just an extension of your personal bubble of experience.
So, if a black person came around with the same story but said nothing like that happened, would it prove you wrong? If a white person said he was judged unfairly based on something despite the fact that he was perfectly well-dressed, would that prove you wrong?
Your position is that 'white fuckups don't effect the white population, but black fuckups do'. All you've given is a personal story with absolutely no argumentative value. You have not proven your point.
> not understanding the white man's burden to protect PoCs
Actual /pol/ack here.
Quit blaming us, when it's people like you proving our points for us. You don't have to be a reactionary to be sick and tired of the "Outraged for a Living" crowd.
I think his point was you should have both.
For every Duck Dynasty you have a 7th Heaven. I don't know if there still are any Cosby-like shows to balance the Tyler Perry retardation.
>identifying as a /pol/lack
And you expect to be taken seriously....well as seriously as one can be taken on 4chan.
Well if it's any consolation there've been several nonblack shows being lead by blacks.
Not how it works. You get to like what you want, and people get to call you an idiot for liking stupid things.
It's not because it's black that it suddenly makes it immune of criticism because "respect my culture".
The only way you can dictate others' perception of you is by controlling your own behaviour, not the way it's perceived by them.
>It's not because it's black that it suddenly makes it immune of criticism because "respect my culture".
The problem is with elitists trying to forcibly dictate exactly what 'black culture' is. Culture isn't something that can be policed.
>And you expect to be taken seriously....well as seriously as one can be taken on 4chan.
I only mention it, because you probably don't know /pol/s traffic. 1-2% of it is topic creators, 8% is posters, and 80% is lurkers, AKA people from all other boards hang out in /pol/, and bring something back with them.
Stop blaming /pol/ for being influential. Their ideas wouldn't be taking root, if there wasn't troubles at home (or in your medium).
No, the problem is that screaming "it's not dumb and doesn't make you look dumb for liking it, it's just black culture" doesn't change shit about people judging it as dumb, be them elitists or not.
>Culture isn't something that can be policed.
It's certainly influenced.
At least on /pol/, you can have a different opinion.
Sure, we'll cap out your thread arguing your ideology is shit, but the discussion is always allowed. We get Libertarian threads, Communist threads, whatever, whenever. Everyone goes there to send their ideas through the barbs, see what comes out the other end.
Placed like reddit and tumblr will outright ban you for going against their "ideals", or posting something they don't like. Critical thought is not punished, but silenced. Which is even worse.
Pick your poison.
>doesn't change shit about people judging it as dumb
Again, why should the culture change so that the upper elite can stop judging it? Why shouldn't the upper elite stop judging it for not being as 'intellectual' or as 'white bread' as they want it to be?
>At least on /pol/, you can have a different opinion.
Try saying something (anything) about racial issues that doesn't fit their hivemind and all you get are memes and image macros as responses. At least that's been my limited experience over there.
Still better than reddit, but not exactly a beacon of open discussion.
Because one has a much better chance of actually happening than the others.
Ideals are nice when you can afford them, but they shouldn't blind you to practical reality. What "should be" true is not the same as what is true.
I thought it was funny there she was in a bunch of T&J reruns at the same time as this.
>Again, why should the culture change
Because maybe some the culture is harmful. Maybe its values are backwards and it enforces and promotes ignorance, crime and blind materialism. Any culture that's actively harmful, regardless of the color of the race it portrays, is just plain bad. We should be able to judge black entertainment as much as we do with white TV. What kind of culture promotes being a thug as something positive?
Because that's not how perception works. As I've told you, you can control what message you send, not how this message is perceived by others and how they judge it.
Stop it with the buzzwords, you're getting really close to calling educated blacks Uncle Sams.
>Because maybe some the culture is harmful.
This is just going to loop back to the "harmful as decided by who" thing. "Who gets to define being a thug as negative" etc. You're both talking in circles around each other.
>Because maybe some the culture is harmful.
>What kind of culture promotes being a thug as something positive?
Give examples of current BET programming that does that.
Are they actually thugs? Or are you perceiving them as thugs?
>"harmful as decided by who"
By fucking logic, you braindead broski. You think promoting drug dealing and killing on the streets is something that isn't harmful? It keeps the culture ignorant and violent.
>Give examples of current BET programming that does that.
I was thinking mostly about the music when I was talking about thug culture tho'. I just think BET is kinda stupid much like MTV and such.
>I was thinking mostly about the music when I was talking about thug culture tho
Give examples of current popular music that do that then.
Also prove that they are promoting it and not simply portraying it.
>y fucking logic, you braindead broski
Whoa hey, don't shoot the messenger. I'm just pointing out how the conversation is going in progress-less circles because this sort of postmodern cultural criticism thing openly questions the existence of things like "logic."
I for one I'm glad I'm not black and instead just a filthy spic not even living in america.
I said give example. POPULAR examples.
Give me an artist who has released a song you disapprove of in the last year.
Also, how do you prove they are not promoting it, but simply portraying it?
Does The Godfather promote people to be gangsters?
>>I was thinking mostly about the music when I was talking about thug culture tho'. I just think BET is kinda stupid much like MTV and such.
If you actually watch BET, you'll find that there's very pretty much no support for any kind of criminal activity. Nothing that you wouldn't find on any other network.
Hell, Dexter, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, and similar shows have done more to glamorize the criminal activity than ANYTHING you'll find on BET.
It's mostly just popular stereotype that rap is all "drug deals, rims on my car, and big booty hoes", just like people who aren't familiar with rock music think it's all "pierce/tattoo my skin do drugs, and make mommy and daddy mad."
>Hell, Dexter, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, and similar shows have done more to glamorize the criminal activity than ANYTHING you'll find on BET.
And those are all great shows too.
>Does The Godfather promote people to be gangsters?
Not him, but have you never seen Scarface fans? Not necessarily that the film is to blame (the ending is often ignored by those retards) but many use it as motivation that crime can make you a powerful guy.
I don't follow rap closely enough (and when I do it's not gangsta rap) to answer your question properly, but crime has often been portrayed in gangsta rap as a means to an end, starting in the 80s. It's portrayed positively by many as a way to get rich. Arguing it's "promoting crime" is another thing, but claiming they don't often portray it in a positive light would be wrong.
>but many use it as motivation that crime can make you a powerful guy.
Who? Who uses that as motivation? Despite the fact that Tony Montana gets horribly killed at the end.
>Arguing it's "promoting crime" is another thing, but claiming they don't often portray it in a positive light would be wrong.
How are those things different at all? What is the difference between promoting something and portraying it in a positive light?
>Hell, Dexter, Breaking Bad, Sons of Anarchy, and similar shows have done more to glamorize the criminal activity than ANYTHING you'll find on BET.
I'll agree with you there and I found the fascination for those criminals being "badass" quite alarming.
>I said give example. POPULAR examples.
Anaconda is one of the most recent songs I can remember right now, by portraying drug dealing men as powerful and desirable.
Also portraying it doesn't help matters if it's in a positive light. For that matter, The Godfather might have not promoted gangster lifestyle but it glamorized it. Many fans of Scarface are inspired by the movie, missing the point entirely.
>inb4 solid proof and evidence that people don't feel influence from positive portrayals of criminal activity.
We could discuss all day. This isn't to prove culture is objectively shit but to reconsider both sides. What might be or not harmful to culture.
>Who? Who uses that as motivation?
>Despite the fact that Tony Montana gets horribly killed at the end.
>(the ending is often ignored by those retards)
>How are those things different at all? What is the difference between promoting something and portraying it in a positive light?
The difference between "you should do that" and "some people do that and it's okay". It's rather subtle, but I don't think there's many rappers directly telling their audiences they should be pimpin.
Give me a name. Any name. Any name at all. Give me someone. Give me facts.
>The difference between "you should do that" and "some people do that and it's okay". It's rather subtle, but I don't think there's many rappers directly telling their audiences they should be pimpin.
Can you give me ANY modern examples, or...?
Can you even explain this subtlety by example? Give me two examples. One that promotes and one that portrays in a positive light.
Because they think accessorizing with something "sofisticated" like an old-timey hat makes them look like they take care of their appearance.
I'm fairly certain they're trying to look smart, not thuggish.
nobody made any big deal over it until the ultra-PC 90s
just like speedy gonzalez. the network just assumed speedy was an offensive mexican caricature and decided to pull all speedy cartoons before anybody could complain
then all these latin-americans came out of the woodwork to complain that there were no speedy cartoons. they love speedy
everyone loves speedy. except for the new The Looney Tunes Show speedy. he's kind of a dick
Joseph, a friend of mine. More relevant
>Fat Joe goes on to describe Tony Montana as the “ultimate ghetto superhero,”
>For example, in the segment titled “The Come Up,” which centers on Tony Montana’s rise from underling to boss, poverty to wealth, Nas remarks that “we all are savages in pursuit of the American dream, rappers relate to that because that’s how we come up.” Russell Simmons also adds that “hip-hop is about empowerment at all costs, and ‘Scarface’ was about empowerment at all costs, and when you see that, it kind of inspires you not to take no for an answer.” In the segment titled “Loyalty,” which explores Tony Montana’s allegiance toward his associates, Mister Cartoon reveals how “the machismo of Latinos is to be a man’s man…and to stay to your word,” and P. Diddy describes Tony as an “upstanding gangster” who “played by rules and morals.”
>GIVE ME EXAMPLES, I WANT ALL THE EXAMPLES
Jesus chill out. Why so fucking defensive.
If you mean "throughout the last year", no because I don't follow rap that closely. If you mean "throughout the last 20 years" I can give you many examples of rapppers portraying crime positively, yes. Snoop and 50 come to mind.
>Can you even explain this subtlety by example? Give me two examples. One that promotes and one that portrays in a positive light.
>I don't think there's many rappers directly telling their audiences they should be pimpin.
>Anaconda is one of the most recent songs I can remember right now, by portraying drug dealing men as powerful and desirable.
Interestingly enough, the drug runner being described in Anaconda is a motorcyle riding, country boy who likes to let her play with his "rifle".
That's a real "thug" right there.
>>Also portraying it doesn't help matters if it's in a positive light. For that matter, The Godfather might have not promoted gangster lifestyle but it glamorized it. Many fans of Scarface are inspired by the movie, missing the point entirely.
Actually, Scarface and the Godfather represent the "classy" aspects of criminal life. When you're pretty much already living a criminal life, you can look to them as examples of how you don't have to be trashy to be a criminal.
But very rarely do people living comofrtable lives, who do not live in crime ridden areas, and do not feel any socio-economic pressure to engage in deliquent or criminal behvaior just turn around and decide to run cocaine so they can get rich.
That's what people do in Breaking Bad.