I visited a lodge today and I'm looking for more information.

Bump.
Do you guys want a tl;dr?

lol, you'll never make it with those psychological issues.

>>19409145
>>19409145
>Also what's the thing I ask a stonemason if im seeking? I've forgotten

>>19409161
It's just the rape thing. Just tell me if it's a threat or not; I'm good with everything else

No rape involved my man, they might tranquilize you and take a kidney though.

>>19409265
you're not going to get raped anon. the sheep on the other hand..

>>19409278
Haha

That's good to know though. I might actually be able to learn now
Can you tell me anything about them? I can't apply for a while yet and I can't wait

>>19409278
I'm not Welsh. How would there be a sheep rape

>>19409145
Dude joining a lodge isn't some mysterious puzzle or some shit like that, you literally just have to apply. If they have a website(most lodges do) then send them an email, or just tell them in person that you want to apply.

>>19409296
A Welshman would never rape a sheep. That's a lie spread by the filthy English. Purely consensual.

>>19409145
>Are they going to try take from me, my family or future wife?

Nope, Freemasonry always comes last. Family and your profession are more important and nobody in the lodge will bat an eye if you have to cancel something because you have other things to take care of.

>Oh and one more thing in this post- am I going to be sexually abused in the moment of light?

No - but you should be aware of the fact that rituals might include things that might trigger you. No idea how comfortable you are with getting blindfolded for example.

>They showed me the lodge, meeting room and the symbols & banners

Freemasonry outside of Continental Europe is a fucking joke.

>>19409319
I'm ok with the blindfold and stuff

They didn't show me the three boards, they were covered by the curtains. They didn't explain the symbols or anything- just who sits where etc

But with the question:
Would I be seeking or? I've forgotten the word

>>19409336
>They didn't show me the three boards, they were covered by the curtains. They didn't explain the symbols or anything- just who sits where etc

Still does not sit well with me personally.

>Would I be seeking or? I've forgotten the word

I don't have any idea what you are talking about there.

>>19409343
I guess that's okay- Wikipedia said that lodges often have different rules and ideas

I was talking about the thing you'd be if you asked a stone mason about things. It doesn't matter, it'll come back up

Thanks for talking to me. It's helping

>>19409145
http://www.sacred-texts.com/mas/index.htm
Great source pick a book you like and read up. As to your issue of trust I am sorry maybe through this freemason experience you are supposed to learn how to trust again. Listen to your heart and you will be alright

Theres nothing that exciting to discover. It's mostly networking with some chill dudes who try not to be cunts with some "alternative history" flavour.

If you have specific questions I'll help as much as i can

>>19409370
Nice, I'll bookmark the website for when I have a laptop again.
Maybe it is all to trust. They say I have to believe in a superior being- I believe in the universe talking to us and us listening. The good and bad teaching two things.

>>19409372
I was outside and there was a guy that looked really nice. Like his face was trustworthy- and the person that walked me around seemed nice too. They seem old but I like those people, so meeting them could be fun

I don't know about any specifics to ask of.
At what rank do you get a ring? Also, I think I was told the first handshake but the last bit could be one of two things. Would it be awkward if I did it when going into the new lodge and it was wrong or?

Oops my bad. It isn't a source, but I'll try and find the books listed, if they're in any charity shops

>>19409431
When you're initiated into the lodge. Dunno if they organise it for you. At my lodge you can order one if you want. I haven't personally.

You won't be taught anything until your initiation.

>>19409145
>am I going to be sexually abused in the moment of light? Are they going to try take from me, my family or future wife? Just asking as I've been raped before and that with having my soul taken (irrational fear from past experiences) are my fears.
No. We wouldn't have any members if there were things like that. Not to mention that it's against the principles of the order in many ways.

>>19409319
>Freemasonry outside of Continental Europe is a fucking joke.
Yea. I'm torn between the Danish style of have new members turn up for banquets for at least a year or two before joining, and not having them in the lodge period, until they join. But never the "come on in and we'll explain everything to make sure you have no surprises" attitude.

>>19409431
>At what rank do you get a ring?
You don't. Rings are just random bits of accoutrements that members choose to wear. Same with lapel pins, baseball caps, branded shirts, etc. If you want to get one, that's on you, but some people look down on it.
> Also, I think I was told the first handshake but the last bit could be one of two things.
You shouldn't have been. Only after you've been given the secrets lecture will you hear about that.

>>19409890
Yeah but I mean whilst talking there would be some tests and so on- but that's just me. Sometimes hints, gestures and learning are occult to me in fascinating ways that I love to learn

>>19409145
If you're this interested, you are already a Freemason. Now you just need to ask them to give you a "Petition For Degrees" and fill it out. They will send out a committee to investigate your character and then take a vote. If you get voted in, you will be given a date to be initiated Entered Apprentice. It's something you will remember for the remainder of your natural life.

I've been a Freemason for 17 years.

It helps to have a good memory.

>>19410200
Again, you won't be taught or tested on anything until your initiation.

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>>19409145
>information that can help me with future meetings with lodges
Don't stare at the Martian.

Mason here. Located in Texas.

>>19409145
You're not gonna get raped. You're also not gonna get your soul took.

>>19409285
To be honest, I would actually say avoid researching ritual and stuff - there's some pretty cool moments in there, and you don't want to spoil it for yourself.

>>19409319
Continental Masonry is essentially clandy garbage.

>>19409370
Can you not spoil this shit for OP, please?

>>19409431
Avoid reading this if you're going to go through the degrees. Spoilers abound. I HOPE they didn't teach you a handshake, Jesus Christ. And yes, it would be awkward as fuck if you aren't a member. Rings are optional. Most brothers I know actually don't wear Masonic rings.

>>19411251
> If you're this interested, you are already a Freemason.

no
just
no

>>19411492
>Continental Masonry is essentially clandy garbage.
U wot m8?

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not OP, but I have a question along similar lines and thought I'd ask here since there seem to be some masons (at least in theory) around this thread.

I got into Rosicrucianism a few years back, but stopped just shy of initiation, for multiple reasons. Those being, mainly, that I wasn't quite sure I was "ready," that I lost my job and girlfriend, and that I moved. Things were a bit tumultuous. I'm the sort of guy reads the directions to baking a cake 10 times before I start. I'm not one to jump into things, and this felt important. I still feel, almost daily, that I should continue on that path.

Regardless, I am now also drawn toward joining a masonic lodge, similar to OP. I guess my question, for those who've been there, is if I SHOULD (italics) feel ready, or if it's something I should just go do. From what I understand- and the reasons make sense- some members of such organizations are relegated more to philanthropic roles rather than "deeper" ones, depending on skill and aptitude. I certainly don't mean that in any negative sense, I just feel that I, personally, might be more destined for the later role. With that in mind, I'm tempted to learn all I can before joining, or even attending a meeting, but maybe this is in error. My question in some senses is whether I should know things, rather, will I be expected to know certain things, upon joining, to gain "better access" (poor wording, but I hope you get the idea) to the truths I seek. Or, will I instead learn things along the way that allow me to reach the same levels, unlock the same doors. I'm a bit of an introvert, and hate to make poor first impressions. . . I guess I just want to be seen as someone with potential, and I don't have a good feeling for if showing up semi-blind labels you for life (again, the words I need escape me at the moment, but I think my meaning is fairly clear). Should I show up with knowledge, or is all I need to know contained within the journey.
Thanks in advance

>>19411647
>some members of such organizations are relegated
Naw, that's just what they think it is and want to do. Not something you have to worry about if you don't want to partake.
>I'm tempted to learn all I can before joining
Eh, there are pros and cons to that. Like, yes, you'll learn if you want to be part of it. But on the downside, an initiatic experience really only works on a fresh mind.
>Or, will I instead learn things along the way that allow me to reach the same levels, unlock the same doors
Pretty much. It's a series of tools for you to apply yourself. You won't be spoonfed any knowledge. That's why we have so many plebs doing charity; because they don't know how to apply the tools, and charity is one of the more straightforward things mentioned in the 1st degree.
> I'm a bit of an introvert, and hate to make poor first impressions
Legit something it will help you with. I've seen so many dudes come out of their shell since joining. You just have to be brave, and throw yourself in the deep end.
Storytime:
>Guy joins
>Lovely chap, but very introverted, soft spoken
>After the 3rd degree, he's given a charge to do in the 1st
>Nails it because it's like one paragraph, but he's clearly nervous
>Everyone comments afterwards that he did a good job, great presentation, etc.
>Watch the pride swell up in his eyes
>Asks to do another charge next time
>Straight up learns the 1st degree tracing board, which is like ten pages long, and very difficult
>Word perfect on his first go at the next meeting where it's needed
>Now he's a toastmaster, a memory coach, and is one of the most outgoing guys in the lodge.
>Also became a great leader after going through the offices
Was pretty rewarding to watch.

>>19411492
>past master institutes a rule that no officer aside from DC is allowed a ritual book
>people forget shit but usually no major problems. Bants ensue if it's a funny mistake
>visit another lodge
>officers straight up reading
>non-officers literally asleep during ritual
>no one gives any fucks
>they still manage to take longer to get through a standard meeting than us

Based past master

>>19411788
>past master institutes a rule that no officer aside from DC is allowed a ritual book
Nice. I tried instituting that rule here for our practices (but Secretary or Chaplain instead of DC), as for meetings it's already in our constitutions.
>Two guys complained that they need it to practice.
>Explain that they can memorise at home.
>Practice at lodge is for practicing the rubric.
>One guy shrugs, and learns all his stuff at home, no worries
>The other guy sulks, and brings his ritual anyway
>Still doesn't learn shit
>Starts bringing it to tyled meetings
>Gets told off by AGSW
>Sulks more
>Plays "Right of Rotation" to get to SW
>Is asked to prove he can do the WM's working
>Can't. Can't even do SW's stuff. Expects to be able to delegate literally every part of it
>We vote in the current WM for another year, and give him the chance to do SW again
>Throws a fit, swears like a sailor and storms out
>Joins the other lodge in our building, and their officer line
>Does shit there
>Lodge starts losing members to us
Would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Better still,
>He's also in my Royal Arch Chapter
>Unwitting Comps. let him join officer line
>First thing he asks is how long it'll take for him to become 1st Principal
So we'll be having another fun conversation soon.

>>19411500
Ayyyyyy I went there. Not a fan of this whole coMasonic, atheistic "Masonry."

>>19411647
A lot of what you need to know will be in the journey. Just go with the flow, dude! FWIW, you will be happy in Masonry, you just need to make sure to look for other esoterically-minded individuals.

>>19411746
100% resonate with your story about that shy guy. Masonry has helped me develop my social skills immensely. Went from zero memory skill to becoming my lodge's go-to lecturer.

>>19411788
Shoulda sold them out to a DDGM, lol. Your PM sounds awesome.

>>19411816
This guy sounds like a dumbass. IDK, if you can't learn ritual, you don't need to be an officer. Also, LOL at the idea of him gunning for Dias officership right away. Are you from the UK? I had to actually google WTF the 1st Principal was - we call him the Most Excellent High Priest here.

>>19412727
>Ayyyyyy I went there. Not a fan of this whole coMasonic, atheistic "Masonry."
I just mean, there's not too much like that, but they just get the publicity.

>>19412727
>I had to actually google WTF the 1st Principal was - we call him the Most Excellent High Priest here.
Very different office. Hell, very different degree. If you get the chance, check out an English derived HRA degree. But not one in England, because the bastards took out parts of it. Scotland, Australia, or NZ would be best, because the EMM degree is performed as well, so it goes from leaving Babylon explaining a lot of contextual Biblical symbolism, into the candidate arriving back into Jerusalem and clearing the ruins to discover some of that which was "lost."

>>19412727
Our DC is past DGIW and on the ritual committee too

>>19413400
I did my Mark a couple weeks ago. Keen to hit up a royal arch chapter but I'm too busy at present

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Thanks for replies to >>19411647
Appreciated

>>19409278
You can't guarantee that you mong. Scumbags abound in every aspect of society.

>>19413578
Would you like another reply?

>>19413579
Sure but they get kicked out of freemasonry.

>>19413649
Don't be so sure. Just because that's what the rules say doesn't mean that's how it works. Do you think your country's governemtnt does everything 100% on the up and up, according to its founding documents? Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT a conspiracy theorist, but there most definitely are, TO THIS DAY, rapists that are Masons "in good standing." In order to get kicked out, you would need to at least have had a reliable Mason report it, if not actually be charged with a crime. I can't remember if you have to be convicted...I think they can kick you out just for being "accused of(arrested for)" such things

>>19413682
I say it because ive seen it happen personally 4 times since my initiation. In fact, my first visit to grand lodge was finalising a guy being removed for "conduct unbefitting a mason" after embezzling money from his district's benevolence fund.

There was also a French grand lodge which is no longer recognised by other grand lodges after involvement in influencing politics was discovered

>>19413700
>There was also a French grand lodge which is no longer recognised by other grand lodges after involvement in influencing politics was discovered

You realize that almost none of the French Grand Lodges are recognized by other Masons right?

>>19409145
I imagine you can go to a lodge and find all kinds of members, maybe there's a few strange things but it's a cute little secret society kind of thing, and that's it.

But I feel like that's only what the real masons allow 'basic' members to see. There has to be more to them.

>>19413400
One of these days, I've got to see the comparison between RAM and HRAM. Is the EMM degree similar to the MEM degree in the US? In the US RAM degree the candidates leave and return, including trips to the ruins with discoveries of the treasures and the Cryptic vault.

>>19413748
lol yeah okay

>>19413586
Sure, I'm always open to hear other/new opinions.

How significant is the vow or commitment, or whatever you want to call it to keep silent? It seems no one wants to give any legit fucking info, I assume it must be out of fear and not faith. Or just really, really devoted. Even Scientologists are more open about their beliefs. Why do you masons not just be completely direct about it? I read through my grandfathers masonic bible for a bit, and one thing that struck me is it had the book of enoch, which was stricken from the modern christian bible. The implications of magic and mythical beings is very strong, i unfortunately didn't get to read much because my dad is very attatched to it because of sentimental value. However I really wanted to read the whole thing, it really felt interesting, like reading something I wasn't supposed to. There is also a lot of what appears to be code? There are a lot of fucking abbreviations and acronyms in that bible.

God sees every hidden thing.

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>>19409145
Have a copy of Morals and Dogma. It was written by Albert Pike and explains a great deal of Freemasonry. I am reading it myself at the moment and its worth it, although I don't know about joining the masons. I never was one for clubs and people. I rather study the mysteries in my own time and by myself.

http://www.resist.com/Onlinebooks/Pike-MoralsAndDogma.pdf
Good luck.

dont you need connects to join the masonry?
i didn't think it would be this simple with online aplications and stuff. Where I live in southwester europe, things seem more old, i doubt they have online aplications. how would one go and join these orders? i know theres a museum of masonry in my city where masons work, there's even a temple in the museum. should i head there and ask directly?

>>19415391
You literally google grand lodge [your state or city], call them up and say you want to join.

>>19414453
Entirely up to you. Personally I try to me a man of my word so I dont want to break an oath. You may get kicked out if someone finds out you did it but the fact it's a pretty cunty thing to do stops most.

>>19414453
If you break it, we murder you. JK. You might get suspended, or kicked out, depending on how badly you break the rules.

>>19415052
FWIW, M&D is considered to be pretty dense reading that is hard to understand in context even if you've received the Scottish Rite degrees.

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>>19411492

No better explanation of the Masonic apron can be found than that provided in the Apron presentation to the new Mason. It is quoted here as presented in the Monitor of the Lodge published by the Masonic Grand Lodge of Texas.

My brother, in behalf of this Lodge, I now present to you this white Lambskin Apron. It may be, that in the coming years, upon your brow shall rest the laurel leaves of victory; it may be that, pendant from your breast, may hang jewels fit to grace the diadem of some Eastern potentate.

Aye! More than these, for light, added to coming light, may enable your ambitious feet to tread round after round of the ladder that leads to fame in our Mystic order; and even the purple of our fraternity may rest upon your honored shoulders; but never again, from mortal hands; never again, until your enfranchised spirit shall have passed upward and inward, through the pearly gates, can a greater honor be bestowed, or one more emblematical of purity and innocence, than that which has been conferred upon you tonight.

>>19409319
>Freemasonry outside of Continental Europe is a fucking joke.

Whats your jurisdiction brother/sister? I love continental freemasonry, and it's beautiful how they have excellent relations with the regular grand lodges, like the GLNF and the GODF, which rite do you practice?

>>19412727
>>19413400

There are more continental freemasonry than Le Droit Humain, the rectifies scottish rite is beautiful and mostly male only, in fact the founding of the rite is against the grand lodge system, but UGLE took it as just another side degree and the version in the us/uk is nothing like what's done in France.

>>19413724
That's more a percentage thing. There are like seven jolly good French GLs, but we can only accept one (GLNF) as legit for the jurisdiction due to ETJ (Exclusive Territorial Jurisdiction) being a landmark. If they were to go the route of Germany and confederate (while still being somewhat independent), they'd all be recognised. And the Grand Orient would be left in the cold.

>>19413748
>'basic' members
Yea, that's why i'm glad i got the Early Access Platinum Package. Came with all the degrees unlocked, and i get to beta test new ones before they're released.

>>19413754
>I've got to see the comparison between RAM and HRAM.
You might be able to do it in Canada, but don't quote me on it. I'm a fan of both, because they're so different.
>Is the EMM degree similar to the MEM degree in the US?
Naw, we have MEM in the Cryptic Council (so it's four degrees).
>In the US RAM degree the candidates leave and return, including trips to the ruins with discoveries of the treasures and the Cryptic vault.
Yea, we have all your Cryptic (+MEM) as appendant to Royal Arch, so they're conferred in an HRA chapter. Same with Ark Mariner, and Red Cross of Babylon (which you'd normally see in Templar, as well as AASR, Allied, and Royal Order).
Always found it weird we didn't adopt the English version of Royal and Select Masters like some other states.

>>19414453
>How significant is the vow or commitment, or whatever you want to call it to keep silent?
Very. It's the test of if you're a good man or not. But bear in mind it only applies to the secrets of the degrees, which are the pass words and signs. Anything else isn't covered.
>and one thing that struck me is it had the book of enoch
Well that's interesting. Never seen a Masonic Bible which wasn't a stock standard KJV, but i'd certainly invest in a few of those to give candidates.

>>19409145
Listen to bill Cooper before it's too late


A pagan is a pagan is a pagan

>>19415052
If you're not already, you might want to check out Arturo De Hoyas' annotated version. Also check out the degree monitor for context. Then you could get A Bridge to Light by Rex Hutchens, and Clausen's Commentaries on M&D.

>>19415856
>the rectifies scottish rite is beautiful
Hells yea it is. It's a shame we don't do it as standard.
>n fact the founding of the rite is against the grand lodge system,
Well no. It was formed out of the then defunct Rite of Strict of Observance as a way of reinvigorating Templary and preserving those messages.
>but UGLE took it as just another side degree and the version in the us/uk is nothing like what's done in France.
Yes and no. England (not UGLE) treats it a helluva lot better than the USA, but yes it is a side degree, since appendant bodies agree not to confer the first three degrees. But it's still enacted very well there, i'm told. They got it fairly late, anyway. My Great Priory received it earlier, and we work the 1787 ritual, just translated (but one day i'll know French well enough to do it as God intended).

>>19416047
>Well no. It was formed out of the then defunct Rite of Strict of Observance as a way of reinvigorating Templary and preserving those messages.

No meaning of offense, but I strongly remember that the doctrine of Jean-Baptiste Willermoz says that is should kept away from those organizations that ignore the reintegrations of the beings. If you have any info that says th opposite I want to check it out. Also, did you know that SOT still exists? http://stricte-observance-templiere.com/

What is your Grand Priory? The GODF practices the RER, is that bad for you?

>>19416087
>but I strongly remember that the doctrine of Jean-Baptiste Willermoz says that is should kept away from those organizations that ignore the reintegrations of the beings
I mean, yea, but it's appendant to. So the Great Priories administering it are part and parcel of it.
> Also, did you know that SOT still exists?
Different thing. It's an homage to Von Hund's rite, but not the same thing, or even a successor of it (like the RER/CBCS is).
>What is your Grand Priory?
Belgique. Sister to Helvetica.

I am very interested in Masonry. I know what it might bring upon me, however I do feel very skeptical of Masonry due to its members, such as the Bushes and other people I do very much not approve of. Not to be "that guy", but can anyone explain to me the ridiculous conspiracy theories regarding Solomons Temple and the Knights Templar?

>>19416195
Functional freemasons built solomons temple. According to freemason history said masons and templars were bros. Whether it's legit or bullshit i have no idea.

In modern terms the knights templar are one of many associated orders which require you to have been a master mason for two years before you can join. See also: rose croix, monitors, royal arch, cryptics, etc.

>>19409145

Your future children want you to get the fuck away from masonry, and never look back.

Read up, OP. Nothing secret, no conspiracies, just increasingly dumbed down metaphysics. Maybe good if you're in a small town for charity work or business networking with old folks...

http://disinfo.com/2015/10/ive-learned-freemason-left-order/

>>19416370
>Whether it's legit or bullshit i have no idea.
It's bullshit. Made up by a Scotsman in France, who encouraged a German guy.

>>19416459
I don't think so. They're going to be members too.

masonry is satan

>>19415998
>>19414453 here
That's odd, I assumed that it was standard in all of them, of course i'm not a mason so I wouldn't know. I guess that answers my next question which is if bibles can differ based on the lodge. I have no idea what degree my grandfather was though, as he never talked about any of it.
My ex did get invited to be a part of a ritual and did it though, I forget what the name was, I think jobs daughter?
She played the part of princess or something and said that it was all a very strict and culty type of situation. I assume to instill discipline which isn't all that bad, but she said that it was just odd. She got a very pedo vibe from a lot of the men. She never returned after doing the ritual because of that.

>>19416852
samefag here, also thank you to the mason who answered my original question the best you could. I came off a little aggressive at first but my genuine curiosity is also accompanied by confusion and ignorance.

>>19416852
>I guess that answers my next question which is if bibles can differ based on the lodge
It's meant to just be a KJV, but there's no one going around and checking it's the exact same edition for each lodge. Plus, members can have their own Bibles (or other Holy Book) on the altar below it.
> I think jobs daughter?
Yea, that's for daughters of Masons.
>She played the part of princess or something and said that it was all a very strict and culty type of situation. I assume to instill discipline which isn't all that bad,
Yea, it's a nice ceremony, and the girls get a lot out of it, apparently. Same as lodge for dudes (or deMolay for lads).
>but she said that it was just odd. She got a very pedo vibe from a lot of the men.
Ayup. I was invited along to a meeting because we help sponsor them, and felt pretty uncomfortable the whole time. Like, maybe if i had a daughter who was in it, it wouldn't be so bad? But as it was, i felt like i'd walk out of the room and be on some kind of list.
Bitchin' scones afterwards, though.

>>19416852
>>19416876
I meant to say: not that the paedo vibe is necessarily true, but i totally get how it would come off that way.
Which is a bit of a shame, because children should be able to learn from both sexes (or more specifically, both parents) without such fear.

>>19416876
Odd, doesn't that type of stuff deter you a little from being a mason? I mean if little girls a prancing around and whatnot and a grand master is over there playing pocket pool I would probably call it.

>>19416879
>>19416906
Didn't read second part, I guess you're right. However it does exist. I always hear about the rituals and think they're just interesting. One of my friends was homeless at one point and sleeping in a Japanese garden in my old hometown of Gresham. It used to just be a little island in the main park, where homeless people would generally go to do meth and heroin but then the city paid to have it changed to something more architecturally attractive. Then put stricter police force in that area at night There is a masonic lodge not far from there. He said he was sleeping and woke up very very early in the morning sometime around winter to hooded men in a circle chanting and speaking in tongue. I tried to pry it out of him as to what day it was, so I could sneak nearby and listen next year on that day. (I know, probably overkill) I would never just go and visit one, as my personal beliefs are that beneath everything, it is truly just an evil cult. Not that I think you guys go around killing anyone, or 9/11 or other conspiracy shit. I just think that at a low rank and with no social status you're kind of just blindly following it in hopes of ascension- with no real possibility of learning everything unless your of significant importance.That's just my take though, I could be dead wrong.

>>19416906
Nah. It's not as creepy as you might think. Even fathers rarely attend the Bethels, leaving it to the mothers and older girls. Besides, even the slightest suggestion that someone might harm a family in the way you're suggesting would get a dude kicked out and reported to the cops quicker than he could zip up.

>>19416926
>sometime around winter to hooded men in a circle chanting and speaking in tongue.
Sounds more like a druid thing. We stick strictly to English, and don't even sing anymore, let alone chant. Sounds like one my druid groups, though, if it was on solstice.
>I just think that at a low rank and with no social status you're kind of just blindly following it in hopes of ascension
Not really how it works. Everyone is 3rd degree, but anything else is an elective subject. You're not taught any specific information anyway, just given tools to find it yourself.

>>19416947
Huh, interesting. I don't think it was on solstice cause that was my first guess. So it's really just dependent on how hard you want to work to work your way up the degrees, you don't actually have to have any kind of social presence after a certain point? I used to have drum lessons in that very same masonic lodge mentioned earlier, they rented it out to people every once and a while. I saw degrees up to 33+. They had a little ranking chart posted up in the bathroom. From the outside looking in, it really just seems like a cult, but to each their own. I really can't judge as their are extremists in the most peaceful religions. I still stand by the fact that it has evil undertones.

>>19416954
>you don't actually have to have any kind of social presence after a certain point?
Nope. If you want to take a more regional admin position, you probably want to be retired, or have a job with few hours is all.
>They had a little ranking chart posted up in the bathroom.
Not so much a ranking, but a series of classes.
So a 33rd is entirely equal to a 3rd degree (not just because 33rd is in a separate system), and both are equal to the state/country Grand Master.
>I still stand by the fact that it has evil undertones.
Meh. People always fear what they don't understand.

>>19416962
True, I guess maybe it's cause I don't understand. Regardless though, thanks for the talk. Was interesting anon! have a good day and may the reptilian overlord bring little girls delicious scones upon you on this day.

>>19415612
The rest of the apron presentation is really beautiful, too. I love it. One of my favorite things to do during a degree.

>>19415856
CBCS/RSR/RER is considered regular here in the States, but it's a super-exlusive invitational. Only 6 members per Grand Jurisdiction.

>>19415998
lol'd at the Early Access Platinum Package. It kills me that we can't get the Royal Ark Mariner without getting invited to AMD or travelling to non-US Jurisdictions!

>>19416016
lol okay

>>19416087
That's not a Masonic organization.

>>19416195
The Bushes aren't members, FYI. Don't listen to people that say we're directly descended from the Templars - we have no proven connection. I love the idea, but there's just no evidence. Would be dope, though.

>>19416473
lol this guy sounds butthurt. Granted, most of his points are alright, but the fact that he left instead of trying to make a difference speaks volumes towards his lack of a spine.

>>19416852
Job's Daughters is one of the "Masonic-sponsored" family groups. It's a girls youth group. It, just like DeMolay, Rainbow Girls, etc., is just another way for Masons to while away their time outside of Blue Lodge, where they should be. Bibles are almost always KJV, but if there's members of other faiths present, it's perfectly fine to have those books there, too.

>>19416954
So basically, it's spooky because you want it to be spooky.

>>19417078
>It kills me that we can't get the Royal Ark Mariner without getting invited to AMD or travelling to non-US Jurisdictions!
Aye, the AMD is great for keeping all those, but it's such a backhand by keeping it so limited. Guess you'll just keep having to drop hints to the guys in it, until you can get in, then work your way to the top and change it.
God speed, bro.
>The rest of the apron presentation is really beautiful, too. I love it. One of my favorite things to do during a degree.
That is quite a nice one. Wouldn't mind seeing it added to ours (which is good too), or the full Scottish version we rarely use.

>>19416968
>Regardless though, thanks for the talk.
No worries, bruv. If you get the chance, hit up a lodge/Grand Lodge library for the opportunity to learn more from the horse's mouth.

They want to know you have a sound mind. Able to make sacrifices in your life and to continue to be effective at what you do do.
Check the library; there are some interesting links to peruse there.
Lurk a bit; it's not entirely whining.

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>>19409145
Why does Canelo Alvarez logo look so much like the mason symbol? Coincidence?

>>19417177
Yeah, I was talking with one of my brothers who is in AMD, and he said, "man, I can't wait to talk about this stuff with you!" And I told him, "well... You know, there's a way to fix that..." Dead silence, he laughed, then told me he would start the ball rolling, and said to not buy the Royal Ark Mariner degree of the Grand College of Rites Collectanea yet. Maybe soon?

>>19417227
I would say that it's pretty coincidental. Maybe the proportions of both are just really nice?

>>19409145
>>19409161
>>19409278
>>19409296
https://discord.gg/PVrZamw

>>19415415
Just checked the website for my local grand lodge, it seems they only accept "special individuals". The text in the website is as follows:
Freemasons should admit only in their lodges, men of honor, of age, of good repute, loyal and discreet, worthy to be good brethren, and apt to recognize the limits of man's dominion, and the infinite power of the Eternal.
This means that not all people are legible to enter. I'm a young guy myself, I doubt they'd let a kid like me enter.

>>19419150
You're probably fine. This is the checklist:

> Be male.
> Believe in God.
> Be above 18 (21 in some places)
> Don't have a felony on your background check
> Don't be mentally or physically disabled

tadah. pretty easy.

>>19419150
It literally means "dont be a massive shit bag".
t. Master mason for 4 years

>>19417078
>>>19415856 (You)
>CBCS/RSR/RER is considered regular here in the States, but it's a super-exlusive invitational. Only 6 members per Grand Jurisdiction.

I never said the opposite regarding regularity, IMHO the way the RER is treated in the USA is cold and elitist, completely against Jean-Baptiste Willermoz philosophy. And in the first place, you don't practice the craft degrees using the rite of the moderns.

>>>19416087 (You)
>That's not a Masonic organization.

I don't understand you, a Grand Priory is the organization that gives the CBCS degree, depending on the jurisdiction and the way the rite is treated, it could, or not, give the craft degrees, for me, the best RER is the GPDG (http://gpdg.org/) which gives the first tree degrees too, using the correct way, the rite of moderns, not York style (referring to York as the way the US gives the first tree degrees, Preston-Webb). Because one of the thing Willermoz did was using the structure of the first tree degrees using the way they were given in France.

There's a lot reading on this wonderful rite, have a nice day.

>>19419154
>>19419161
all right, so I call them and I say what?

-Hello? Um, I've started to be interested in masonry and would like to know if it'd be possible to join.

Would this be a good way of saying it?

>>19417227
G
G
G

>>19419199
Sure.

>>19419223
I rate lomachenko as better p4p fighter. Ggg has fucking crushing power though

>>19419235
>I rate lomachenko as better p4p fighter. Ggg has fucking crushing power though

Indeed! But, Canelo...or Golovkin? Who you wanna see as winner?

>>19419235
Very well, last question: My dad is 60 and has been interested in masonry his entire life. Most of my knowledge of masonry in terms of simbolic meaning came from him and he seems to love the occult and knowing more about it, more than me even. My question is, could I join the same order with my dad at the same time? Or is he too old for it? Do you think it would be possible?

>>19419154
a lot of fraternal quasi-occult/religious LARPers do charity work and require various organizational and public activities, basically they won't accept you unless you are a middle class or above guy with a decent job and spouse, and at least age 30.

the entire idea of fraternities (not just "secret societies") is for winners who are truly experiencing life and the world that god offers, if you're just into muh spiritual shit for autistic intellectual reasons, they don't want you. there's basically a "you must be this chad and not poor" line (granted it's not like you need to be some le alpha dudebro) because loners and poorfags do not experience Real and Godly Life™. these guys are huge on muh family values obviously, so you gotta be a real family man in addition to a brother to them.

tl;dr it's normiecore spirituality roleplaying, not /x/

>>19419161
doesnt it mean you have to be invited? (isnt it invitation only?)

>>19419242
I reckon ggg's aggression will pull through if canelo doesnt smash him due to his sloppy technique.

>>19419253
The past master of my lodge didnt have his initiation until his 60s

>>19419260
As I've said like 8 times ITT all you have to do is ask. The only invitation only order of which I'm aware is rose croix

>>19419258
exactly, from what i get it, its basically a elitist club where you get to dress up and meet influential people. Did I get it right?
I'm a student myself, so my guess is they wouldnt accept me.

>>19419268
what do you need to do to get invited?

>>19419275
>its basically a elitist club where you get to dress up and meet influential people

not necessarily, it's just a club for decently successful dudes with families like I said.

>>19419276
Be nominated by a member and supported by a vote in their chapter

>>19419287
all right. if you leave the country, do you need to leave the order?

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Some ad's from a Montgomery-ward magazine from the 20's

>>19419293
Masons or rose croix? The former, no. The latter don't know. I moved to japan for two years and I'm still and member of my mother lodge

>>19419299
why would anyone want to get into rose croix other then for power?

>>19419308
Not a member, can't tell you. Personally, I enjoy pursuing the "secrets" of the orders. Not that theres anything earth-shattering but it's interesting.

>>19419321
all right, that seems like a good enough reason. do you pay monthly fees anon? do all orders require you to pay a monthly fee?

>>19419334
Masons is annual. That goes to booze for meetings, paying the caterer, upkeep of the masonic centre, paying the organist (when he's available), and funding charitable works (we usually hold a bbq once a month to raise money for our lodge charity so it pays for sausages and the like)

>>19419347
how much do you pay? as a student i dont have a lot of money, so that's why I need to make sure I have money to pay when the time comes

>>19419355
I think it's around $300. Dunno if it'd be different in burgerstan

>>19419370
i'm in south western europe so yeah.
what's up with the words "blue lodge"? Are there any other types of lodges beyond blue?

>>19418116
>and said to not buy the Royal Ark Mariner degree of the Grand College of Rites Collectanea yet.
Bodes well. As long as they haven't already got 27 members (or is it 72?), he should be able to get you in.

>>19419191
>the RER is treated in the USA is cold and elitist
Yea, it's as bad as SRICF (for the most part); a past Grand Masters club.
Clearly none of them actually listened to the second tracing board of the Scotch Master of St Andrew degree, which explicitly calls them out for ruining the Craft.
>I don't understand you
I think he means that it's appendant. Only Grand Lodges are strictly Masonic organisations, the governing bodies of the appendant degrees are supra-Masonic (by and large).

>>19419199
Sounds good.

>>19419260
Invites are forbidden.

>>19419308
Extra degrees. You don't get any power, but the lessons of the system are pretty nifty.

>>19419347
>paying the organist
Shit, that'd be alright. But i'd feel bad taking payment. Might encourage other bros to learn to play, though.

>>19419386
Blue lodge are straight freemason. Non-blue are associated orders. Other orders meet in masonic lodges but "open" in their relevant chapter.

Like my mark man ceremony was held in my normal lodge but performed by a royal arch chapter. So in that case it was no longer a blue lodge

>>19419386
It's an American term for Craft lodge, because in some of their states, their aprons are trimmed in blue, as opposed to the Holy Royal Arch, where they're trimmed in red.
You won't hear the term outside of the USA, as we often use other colours. Ie. tartan aprons are a common thing. Same with green.

>>19419398
Ausfag here. We use red/blue lodge.

>>19419422
You must be Victorian. Never heard any other state use it. Especially since we don't have "red lodge."

>>19419395
>>19419398
>You won't hear the term outside of the USA
ah, so that's why I didn't get it.

i also heard there are two types of rose croix lodges, the ones aligned with AMORC and those non AMORC. which one is the real rose croix?

>>19419430
NSW. I'd heard it a couple times in passing but I never bothered to ask about it until i did MM.

We do have a few bros who have ties to american lodges though so maybe that's how it got introduced in our lodge.

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>>19409145
Masonry, is not what your building it up to be. Kek.

>>19419435
>real
Now that's an interesting one.
Prefaced by saying that in Masonry, we have about half a dozen "Rose Croix" bodies.
But the (attempted) short version is that there was a German group pre-16thC who called themselves Rosicrucians, as followers of Christian Rosenkreuz. They were barber-surgeons who sought out all kinds of esoteric and occult knowledge so that they might be able to advance science (especially medical science). They'd reconvene their group every few years and share what they learned.

Skipping ahead, we have Rosicrucian (RC) groups like the Societas Rosicruciana, Golden Dawn, AMORC, and many others who claim to be descended from those teachings (if not directly). All taken with a grain of salt.
AMORC is one of the shittiest ones, as it just focuses on their dudes writings, and they make you pay for photocopies of them and call them degrees. Basically they're more concerned with the esoteric knowledge part than actually doing anything with it. Other groups practice alchemy, gematria, etc, with more focused purposes.

But then in Masonry, we have Rose Croix groups, which don't actually follow Christian Rosenkreuz' teachings at all, and instead base their system around the symbol of the Rosy Cross of Sharon (Christ).

It's pretty confusing to begin with.

>>19419444
>NSW
Ah right. I did visit an HRA chapter there where an old P1stP was saying to a candidate that "Ya moight've herd about the red lodge being the 18th degree. But nah, this m8, is tha real red lodge." Like that was supposed to mean something, and the poor chap just looked down at his blue and crimson sash, then at the blue and black colours of the room and looked rather confused.

>>19419472
>AMORC is one of the shittiest ones
Yeah I see, they have "Join now" in their site for crying out loud... What would you consider to be a good rosicrucian order? Also, do you know any names of those masonic orders you mentioned at the end (related to the cross of sharon)?

>>19419517
>Yeah I see, they have "Join now" in their site for crying out loud...
I wouldn't say that alone makes them lousy, but yea, they're a cash grab. Gorgeous library/temple in California, though.
>What would you consider to be a good rosicrucian order?
Totally biased, but SRIA. For non-Masons, though, BOTA is one of the best. Rosicrucian Fellowship is a nice one, but very basic. And i've heard good things about some Golden Dawn groups.
>Also, do you know any names of those masonic orders you mentioned at the end (related to the cross of sharon)?
Going from memory we have: Rose Croix (18th degree of the A&AR). Royal Order of Scotland. Knight Masons (to a lesser extent). Part of the Allied Degrees. And to a lesser extent, Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests.
I'm sure i'm forgetting some, though.

>>19419567
do you need to be invited in order to join any of those orders? i heard you guys were strict.

>>19419191

I was referring to that SOT org you posted. It's not Masonic. CBCS is Masonic, as you say. No argument there! This GPDG thing seems irregular, though. They're supposed to leave the first three degrees to the Grand Lodge in their Jurisdiction.

>>19419199
Yep, that'll do!

>>19419253
He can definitely join! He will have to kneel for a prayer, so he has to let the lodge know in advance if he has any joint issues so that they can provide him with a pillow or something.

>>19419260
FFS we've been saying this entire thread that you have to petition for it. It's not invitational.

>>19419258
>>19419280
What? No. We have truck drivers and bankers, single guys, married guys, whatever. The oldest member of my lodge recently passed away at 100 and our youngest member can't even legally drink yet.

>>19419275
Incorrect. We've got students, too.

>>19419308
For knowledge and self-improvement. Masonry doesn't give you power, FFS.

>>19419334
Usually dues are annual.

>>19419355
Highly dependent on your lodge. My lodge is $365/year. The lodge in the room next to us, in the same building, is $85/year.

>>19419386
Blue lodge == first three degrees.

>>19419390
I think with AMD it's 27, and with SRICF it's 72. Also, I want into SRICF! Shit seems super cool.

>>19419422
>>19419430
Interestingly enough, here in the States, "red lodge" refers to the lodges in the 16th District of the Grand Lodge of Louisiana, which is the only place you'll still find SR craft degrees instead of YR craft degrees.

>>19419435
A lot of the SRICF colleges (basically the Rosicrucian chapters) will actually bar you from entry if you are a member of AMORC. AMORC is... shady.

>>19419567
I might have to check out BOTA if SRICF isn't an option, haha.

>>19419583
Some yes, some no.

Petitionable (you can ask): Blue Lodge, York Rite, Scottish Rite, the Shrine, etc.

Invitational (you can't ask): Societas Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatis (SRICF), the Allied Masonic Degrees (AMD), the York Rite College, Royal Order of Scotland, Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests (HRAKTP), the Order of Quetzalcoatl, etc.

>>19419619
>A lot of the SRICF colleges (basically the Rosicrucian chapters) will actually bar you from entry if you are a member of AMORC. AMORC is... shady.
You're not the first one to say that. Wth is wrong with AMORC?

>>19419583
Yea, most of those are invitational in some places. It's not that big of a deal, ask and ye shall receive sorta thing. But it's just a filter for keeping out known drop-kicks.
So like, we *shouldn't* let any douchebags into the Craft, period. But they do get in. So by having stuff like the SRIA or RER be invitational, you're not stopping the genuine guys (except in the USA, sadly), but you're protecting those orders from the collectors and quarrelers.

>>19419619
>I think with AMD it's 27, and with SRICF it's 72.
Ah, right you are. I should remember that, but let's just say we don't have to worry about filling too many Soc Ros colleges here...
>Also, I want into SRICF! Shit seems super cool.
It really is. Mostly for the emphasis placed on actually doing shit.
>here in the States, "red lodge" refers to the lodges in the 16th District of the Grand Lodge of Louisiana,
Damn, forgot about that. And was watching their youtube channel just recently.
>I might have to check out BOTA if SRICF isn't an option
Fair warning, you might get excluded from SRICF if you join BOTA first. We have an odd exclusionary thing about other RC type groups. Might be worth checking with your College (in doing so, you might get an invite, too).
> Order of Quetzalcoatl
Next time i go to the States, i'm not leaving without that damn degree...

>>19419691
im the guy with the 60 y/o dad
He told me some years ago that he tried emailing some order here in my country, I think it was the SRIA, and he never got an answer back...

Obviously the Freemasons hold secrets that allow a man to grow as a person, myself I am very interested in wanting to join and contribute to Freemasonry in return for some knowlege. However, I am not religiously monotheistic and a single entity or will exhibiting power over a conflicted world seems absurd to me and on the Freemason website "belief in a supreme power" is a prerequisite. I considered emailing a local lodge and "lay it all on the table" if they considered me worse me worthy. I am skeptical if I am rejected because of my religious beliefs and affiliations I would also make myself known to perhaps powerful people in my local area in a less then favorable light.

So my question for Freemasons on the board, would a Polytheist be allowed to join freemasonry?

The ever-growing infatuation with freemasons is beyond me. I have been to their lodges a million times simply because they're not a secret cult and they never have been. You just need to be a hotshot to get accepted, that's literally all there is to it. It's like a frathouse for only the top caliber athletes.

You've already heard this a million times but I'm confirming it from an eyewitness standpoint:

Freemasons and their lodges are nothing but playgrounds for rich people with too much time and money. The fact that certain ''shady'' business is done there is not because they're ''le illumenerti'' , said business could have been conducted anywhere else by any other rich guy.

>>19419705
That's a shame. I mean, if he's not a Mason himself, he wouldn't be able to join anyway, but they still should have responded to him.
But honestly, we're only just now starting to have any kind of up to date web presence in Masonry, so i wouldn't be surprised if no one saw the email.

>>19419717
>So my question for Freemasons on the board, would a Polytheist be allowed to join freemasonry?
Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Maybe, depends on where you are. Ie. in Scandinavia? No, because they only let in baptised Christians. In the American Bible Belt? Probably also no, because they wouldn't understand it.
But the rule on the issue (outside of Scandinavia and Germany), is that you just have to have faith in a Supreme Being. Be it Christ, Dagda, Vishnu, Allah, Odin, etc.

>>19419658
They claim that you can gain the same benefits by correspondance courses, when most of this stuff really is dependent on the initiatic experience. They also claim to be the original, real-deal Rosicrucians. They're not. Additionally, AMORC is very new-agey. Now, do they have cool knowledge? Yes, but a lot of their claims are bunk.

>>19419691
Do you enjoy SRICF? (SRIA?) I really want to learn more about R+Cism. Also, what's your general level of involvement? It sounds like you've put a lot of time into the Craft.

>>19419717
Super jurisdictional - you'd have to email your Juridiction's Grand Lodge. Also, again with the "powerful people" nonsense. Just... no.

>>19419729
And AGAIN with the nonsense of having to be a hotshot, or top-calibre, or rich... Like I said, a lot of us are truck-drivers and retail clerks.

>>19419731
>if he's not a Mason himself, he wouldn't be able to join anyway
oh so you have to be a mason first? how do you start then?

>>19419613
>I was referring to that SOT org you posted. It's not Masonic. CBCS is Masonic, as you say. No argument there! This GPDG thing seems irregular, though. They're supposed to leave the first three degrees to the Grand Lodge in their Jurisdiction.

The GPDG is the only reason why there's RER in the world today, after the rite became dormant they bring it back. Where does it says in the doctrine of Willermoz such thing as leaving degrees to grand lodges appears? The original rite cannot be done in that way.

Quite honest people this is the best thread about masonry in a while.

One thing, is it in the constitutions of the SRICF that you cannot join AMORC?

>>19419757
>Do you enjoy (SRIA?)
Hells yes. As every fratre says, "It's what i thought Masonry was going to be before i joined."
>Also, what's your general level of involvement?
College and "provincial" officer [2nd Order] (in quotes, because our province is tiny, and we all meet in the same building). So i've gone from trying to present stuff on each of the grades, to coaching others to do so.
>It sounds like you've put a lot of time into the Craft.
Yea, but mostly because i saw a lot of gaps which needed to be filled, and no one else willing to fill them. You'd be surprised how much you can get done as long as you know the rules and just work within them without asking other people first.

>>19419768
Contact your local lodge, or your grand lodge. It's a bit of a process, but after you're initiated, then you go through the three degrees, and 12 months after that (varies) you're able to join the appendant bodies/societies like SRIA/CF.

>>19419789
Yea. It was mostly done as a way of preventing OTO types from joining (had two members here get kicked out about a decade ago for being Crowleyites), but it covers all other RC groups, sadly. There are loopholes, like after joining, you could sign up to BOTA's correspondence courses, or hang out with TRF group meetings, but it's something you have to check.

>>19419768
You ask a Mason, or a lodge of Masons, to make you a Mason, after getting to know them a little. Then you can worry about stuff like SRIA, and all the other appendant bodies.

>>19419783
What about the whole deal with jurisdictional sovereignty? This is why M+M and several other rites died - the refused to let go of the Craft degrees and were deemed clandestine/irregular. The RER can definitely be done without the first three degrees - that's the only reason it's survived where it's still practiced as a recognized/regular appendant body.

>>19419789
Depends on your SRICF college. Some are totally fine with it. Others aren't.

>>19419790
One of these days! I know several people in AMD, SRICF, etc., and have expressed profound curiosity without requesting invitation, so maybe it'll work out sometime. And yeah, I've noticed that it's easy to jump on the boat if you just go for it. My involvement in YR has been one big "ayy hold my beer" and it's worked out really well so far.

>>19419810
>The RER can definitely be done without the first three degrees
It is a shame, though. They're better than what most of us do.
Check out Committed to the Flames by Morris and de Hoyas for one translation of them. Quite a few aspects i've been trying to sneak in... Hopefully not too much longer until i can join the Grand Lodge Ceremonial Board, and then shit will get real.
> My involvement in YR has been one big "ayy hold my beer" and it's worked out really well so far.
Noice. God speed to you, and all your endeavours, bro.

I believe many folks here should be careful in what they believe know OF continental freemasonry. In the sense that they just see American/English freemasonry and don't know how it may work in Europe, many people doesn't read anything of they research and only came up with "muh regularity" as an excuse.

French freemasonry has it all; the French Rite ends on a 7th degree which is Rosicrucian, the RER is wildly practiced there, the Memphis Misraim was "cleaned" of the problems of the past, the GOdF has created a version with only the degrees awarded with ritual and without the 33 of AASR. The rite that Le Droit Humain does in the US is theistic and similar to emulation, AASR with mystic tones.

Alchemy is strongly live there, the Martinists are well established.

>>19419789
yeah, i love debating these topics. we should have a masonry general every week or so what do you guys think?

>>19419831
I second that.

>>19419821
Thank you kindly! I will have to check those books out. There's tons of stuff I want to try in our degreework. Now, since I'm in Texas, and they're kind of strict, it'll be a challenge... but challenges were made to be accepted.

>>19419831
I would love to geek out about masonic shit on /x/ on the reg. Would be a blast!

guys, im in continental Europe, should i join the french masons or the english ones?

>>19419882
Depends. Do you want to travel to other countries and sit in lodge?

If yes, go English, if not, go French.

>>19419882
I recommend you the French ones, people here are only related to america and england and doesn't know about other types of freemasonry.

If you know french search in youtube: Roger Dachez, excellent person and researcher.

>>19419891
why would i want to not travel to other countries?
>>19419896
thanks anon. what are the differences in beliefs between the two?

>>19419896
Why not read about French and do english? Seems to me you'd get the best of both worlds

>>19419920
French masonry isn't recognised outside of france for the most part

>>19419920
>thanks anon. what are the differences in beliefs between the two?

The French is related to the first Grand Lodge, the one of the "moderns", depending on your decision, there's more richness of what you can do in lodge, you can enter one with strong French revolution spirit, where ateists are allowed and discussion of humanism are the norm; you can join one with strong emphasis on the spiritual side, like the Rite Escossais Rectifie, which is a Christian esoteric rite. The GOdF has lodges that work various rites, in English lodges there are only two options, York or Emulation, maybe you live in a country where the regular lodges has spiritual ties to the french one, and they practice various rites. That doesn't happen outside of Europe.

There a sensation of English freemasonry being only a "club", and brothers from these lodges try to find the thing" they don't get filled by joining various appendant bodies and other organizations.

Think carefully, do you wanna work with females? Are you Christian? Do you wanna work with emphasis on humanism? On esoteric knowledge? Egyptian mysticism?

You can also work English style but in a French lodge, people would find this odd, but you maybe wanna be part of an organization that isn't a club for old man but with rite of the most ancient customs; it's possible and accepted.

godf.org is where you should look ;)

>>19419927
in my country, both are recognised, thats why i asked

>>19419964
Also anon, you CAN visit lodges outside of your country, never heard of clipsas? lodges pledge to accept visitors from every lodge in the world to form fraternity, it's called the appeal of Strasbourg.

You can visit all this lodges: http://www.clipsas.com/en/membros-do-clipsas/

>>19409145
GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN

>>19419985
fuck off dude, people are having fun and receiving light

>>19419974
Im the Same anon you answered to
Yeah i know a couple of those orders myself. I read what clipsas beliefs are and they look like a leftist infested nightmare, with diversity and all that bullcrap rhetoric.
I'm more aligned with the "liberty, happyness, and property" motto more akin to the US. Should I go english then?

>>19419896
>>19419954
>>19419974
If you're in a continental French lodge, or working with females, it might be fun, but it's not Masonry - if you can't follow landmarks, that's a problem. Pls stop advocating clandy garbage.

>>19420012
Go into any lodge, regular or not, but that works the French rite, is the rite what Washington worked, the people of the enlightenment.

Regular lodges in Europe work it. If you join other rite you may find yourself with the feeling of too much biblical discourse.

>>19420012
Absolutely.

>>19420034
False. Why are you pushing your Continental agenda so hard? His lodge was charted under the Grand Lodge of Ireland (and then Scotland, and then Virginia). They didn't work French rites.

>>19420034
Yeah that's what Im afraid, I wasn't raised religiously so I'd have a hard time understanding the references. On the other hand, as the other anon pointed out, it breaks the masonic "rules".

>>19420015
>if you can't follow landmarks

Which ones? That's an issue, the idea that there's a strong lineage of rules if not supported by historical research. Many masons believe that the Anderson constitution banned atheists and it's false, the version many people read today has been changes by the UGLE, the first edition, which can be found in websites of universities, scanned, doesn't do so.

Recent research has proven that in the first lodges in Scotland, the "landmarks" where nothing related to what people claim today.

BTW, don't think that I'm debating you, it's just that it's impossible to believe what regular lodges proclaim, when your eyes see other material proven them wrong. Don't repeat what your jurisdiction says, search it, don't believe that only de Hoyos knows about freemasonry, search different writers. Many ideas of what regularity is where placed later, by political motivations, there's an excellent book by Roger Dachez, called regularity and recognition a global issue, give it a try.

>>19420063
>False. Why are you pushing your Continental agenda so hard? His lodge was charted under the Grand Lodge of Ireland (and then Scotland, and then Virginia). They didn't work French rites.

Forgive, my error, I was thinking of Benjamin Franklin and Les Neuf Sœurs.

Well, I'm pushing because people don't know much truth about them...and no, I'm not a member, I just don't like how everybody says just "regularity" and will never read any material about them. I don't like this idea of "just because I said so it's true".

>>19420034
So Washington was from the french based masonic orders?

>>19420066
>Yeah that's what Im afraid, I wasn't raised religiously so I'd have a hard time understanding the references. On the other hand, as the other anon pointed out, it breaks the masonic "rules".

Keep searching, people are already triggered for mentioning godf.

>>19420090
Franklin was. Not Washington, my error.

>>19420070
To be fair, the landmarks thing is an issue, due to a lack of consistency from GL to GL, but we do have a history of several hundred years. I'm just saying that atheistic "Masonry" breaks with literal centuries of tradition, and when looking at the ritual work, doesn't make a lick of sense.

>>19420082
Franklin was pretty cool, but he was also barred from returning to his home lodge in the States because he was deemed clandestine - this was considered an issue even back then. You are right in that people make a big deal out of regularity, but sometimes, there's a real good reason for it (like not requiring a belief in God).

>>19420090
No.

>>19420091
"Triggered" is a bit strong. Let's just say that I'm following my obligation inclusive of "nor permit it to be done."

>>19420102
Agree, we can even agree more, the GLNF and the GODF do annual reunions. That's show the respect from both organizations to each other.

Check this guy (https://www.quora.com/Can-I-be-a-Freemason-if-Im-an-atheist) he's a regular mason from Toronto, he's the leader of an organization there that deals with this type of issues.

Note, when he says UGLE not as old as GODF, he refers to the reunion of the two grand lodges.

>>19420108

He's really stretching. Pay attention to the wordplay he's using and the chart he puts in as a distraction tactic. He's very much weaseling his way out of it by saying "atheists who are stupid" instead of "stupid atheists" which could just as easily be people who are stupid because they are atheist.

Additionally, he makes grand claims like "many of the prominent Freemasons were atheists" without backing it up.

FWIW, if we're going to go by historical precedence, the Regius Manuscript is pretty clear on requiring a belief in God.

>>19420148
I think similarly, but knowing that the Anderson's constitutions had been "touched".

You read my link about irregular lodges, that's unusual, :')

Saints alive
Your welcome if you find it.

>>19420191
If you don't like /x/ get out.

>>19420214
What are you talking about

>>19420214
When I started my job years ago there were 4 Mason's working there, 3 of them had Mason rings and tattoos under those rings of the rings. The one without the ring was asking about something to do with the Mason's while we were out there smoking and I heard one say look up saints alive for more information then they looked at me and one said something I didn't hear and the other said he wasn't paying attention talking about me. At the time I looked it up and found a website with a lot of documents about procedures and the order but that's been at least 6 years ago

>>19420243
No idea, I was thinking of a anti masonic page with that name.

>>19420172
I like reading, haha. Regular or irregular, it's all still really interesting. LDH is fascinating, and so is stuff like M+M.

>>19419882
Are you in France? Go the GLNF (Grand Loge National de France) if you want to be a real Freemason (Grand Opera Symbolique is good too, but unrecognised). If you're a woman, atheist, disabled, Jewish, or have mental issues (redundant, amirite?), go the Grand Orient de France.

>>19419974
>You can visit all this lodges: http://www.clipsas.com/en/membros-do-clipsas/
Lol @ the list. Each of those outside of France and Italy would be lucky to have ten lodges each.

>>19419896
GOdF =/= all continental Masonry, brah. Like how the Grand Alpina Helvetica practices the RER Craft degrees, but are still recognised and regular.

>>19419954
>English lodges there are only two options, York or Emulation
False. Regular Masonry has everything one might want, but what you're suggesting is just what's advertised best in the USA.
> but you maybe wanna be part of an organization that isn't a club for old man but with rite of the most ancient customs; it's possible and accepted.
>godf.org is where you should look ;)
It's not the most antient, and it's for old jewish men who want to dabble in politics. I'd suggest OTO before GOdF in terms of quality.

>>19420070
>Many masons believe that the Anderson constitution banned atheists and it's false
What? No it isn't. Andserson's requires "The religion to which all men agree" the only interpretation is if he meant Christianity, or religion in general.
>Recent research has proven that in the first lodges in Scotland, the "landmarks" where nothing related to what people claim today.
What research? Because yea, there are additions, but for the most part they're derived from the Antient Manuscripts.