Witchdoctors

>>19336258
Ah...The witchdoctors...

Listen...

All forms of magic are born from the same root.
However, their magic differs from the oriental magi and european wizards through the use of nature and spirit elemental magic. They share more in common with celtic druids. (of which there are EVEN fewer of)

(Some shamanic tribesmen in india even share words with shamans in central america)

As for truth to their power...
They tend to draw their "magic" through the use of herbs and such.

>>19336258
Ah man, really? I never wanted to talk about witchdoctors again after a bad experience I had.

I'll tell you the story:
Hey ! Witch Doctor ! Give us the magic word
All right, you go ooo ooo ooo ahah ting tang
Walla walla, bang bang !
All right !
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bang bang
I told the witch doctor
I was in love with you
I told the witch doctor
I was in love with you
And then the witch doctor
He told me what to do
He told me
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bang bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bang bang
Ooo eee ,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla ,bang bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bang bang
I told the witch doctor
You didn't love me true
I told the witch doctor
You didn't love me nice
And then the witch doctor
He game me this advice
Ooo eee, ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla, bang bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bang bang
Ooo eee ,ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla ,bang bang
Ooo eee ooo ah ah ting tang
Walla walla bang bang

>>19336308
I have never wanted to wipe someone off the face of the planet before you came along and posted this fucking song.

:D

>>19336295
Just curious as this too. As facebook tends to post a lot of stuff. An article came up about a witchdoctor "summoning" back a monstrous crocodile with a dead human. Now are they are able to talk, and manipulate animals and such?

>>19336258
hey OP.
If you're actually interested in the subject, I'd encourage you to not use the term "witch-doctor" for starters its usually pejorative. Not trying to get too politically correct on you, but it's a bad search term, and people who might actually be "witch-doctors" generally respond negatively to it.

Asking whether their "powers" are real or just false is hard to answer, you need to be more specific, what "powers" do you mean? They certainly have powers that are attributed to them that they almost certainly do not possess, they have other powers which are most decidedly real.

You're going to need to be more specific on the kind of cultures and traditions you are interested in before I can be of any more help.

>>19336295
both the "oriental magi" and the "european wizards" focus very heavily on the interaction and integration of nature and elemental magic. I'd tend to agree that they have things in common with the "celtic druids" but the extent is going to depend on what cultural background were discussing. As for your veiled reference to psychotropics and entheogens, while its common in many practices, its far from a universal constant.

>>19336328
While all magic users tend to have a relationship with nature and such the shamans, druids and beast masters are the most in tune.

Glorified animal trainers. With a little practice talking to animals is an easy feat if you are willing to spend the time...
It can be taught though.

>>19336258
I can't speak on whether they're real, but it almost doesn't matter. In places like rural Iraq belief in magic is well rooted, people go to people that they think can give them charms or protective spells if they need it, and the fear of black magic is pervasive. Even Saddam is said to have feared "magicians" and had people check up on the practicioners who were known to the authorities to make sure they weren't trying to curse him. The overall cultural impact this has is to create a very powerful placebo, to the extent that if you were born and raised in these areas you'd probably have your own anecdotes about how magic had worked for you, or for a friend or relative.

I find the whole subject very interesting, especially how this superstition and belief in magic exists within the framework of an Islamic society

>>19336258
There are not simply "Witch-Doctors". This word is way to general to be meaningfull. Its basically another word for "shaman".

"Shaman" nowadays means any form of spiritual healer, mostly with a strong focus on the client having actual contact to the spirit world. This contact can be achieved by meditation, extreme fasting, exzessiv sweating and other techniques. Very important in many shamanic traditions is the use of psychedelic states of mind. This ensures visionary insights into the spirit-realm. Psychedelic plants like Peyotl, San Pedro, Chacruna + Ayahuasca, Salvia divinorum, Datura or Iboga and mushrooms like Psilocybe spp. or Amanita muscaria are very strong tools, that help visiting the spirit world.

Once you have contact to the spirit world, using magic plants, drugs or other techniques, you can heal, draw fresh energy or settle inner issues very efficiently. But if you enter the spirit world with bad intentions ("Look how many drugs I can take guys!") you may as well be hunted by demonic spirits that destroy your life.

>>19336357
>Glorified animal trainers.

What in the hell are you talking about? What about the vast majority of cultural magical traditions which in no way involve the manipulation of living animals?

>>19336357
Now when I say magic, I usually like to think of it as the predecessor to science and stuff because of the Magi's relationship to Alchemy and it's roots in scientific method etc...so in the words of Rick Sanchez..."Focus on science Morty".

>>19336366
Those traditions once taken beyond the extent of nature magic become something beyond that of shamanistic, druidic and beast master tradition and into the ethereal planes, wizardry and super-natural phenomena...

Although if you look at it through a larger scale it becomes just another piece of nature entirely...

>>19336380
>Those traditions
What traditions?
>once taken beyond the extent of nature magic
Even though they continued to focus on the usage and composition of the natural world?
>something beyond that of shamanistic, druidic and beast master tradition
Are you implying that western european and "oriental" magical traditions are somehow superior to other cultural traditions?
Also what the hell is a "beast master" tradition? Could you name one? I've never even heard of that distinction.

>into the ethereal planes, wizardry and super-natural phenomena...
I assure you, shamanic and other native cultural magical traditions focus heavily on concepts such as the ethereal, wizardry, sorcery and super natural phenomenon, these are not exclusive to whatever systems you seem to be referencing.

>it becomes just another piece of nature entirely...
You type that like you just now figured that out while posting.

>>19336330
My bad, like i said. White boi over here.
Well shamans of Papa New Guinea, is there shamans from there? My close friend is from PNG, grew up there till the age of 11 until moving the Australia. Now his tribe was one of the cannibal ones. Or head hunters. Anytime i ask him about it he gets annoyed, and i dont blame him. So just wondering if there is shamans in PNG which talk to the land and animals?

>>19336411
A composition into the abstract and intangible parts of nature. Unless on the other side (dead) I find it pointless until multi verse tech is invented.

The beast masters were even smaller as a sect of old magic users.

Barely considered a magical tradition but only because of their association to the crows and certain songbirds they were plentiful in England and Arabia.

Western tradition brought you the INTERNET.
Oriental traditions have the most powerful industrial force in the world thus far.
If that is not a show of superiority I do not know what is.

The wizardry I refer to is that of the European variety. Shamans tend to be lateral thinkers, wizards hierarchal and horizontal in their approach.

Sorcery actually is derived from "Source" because they derive their power from a magical object.

Super natural phenomenon that they perform is very basic. It is super. But not earth shattering. Western wizards brought you the Nuke. Never forget that.

>>19336439
>Papua New Guinea
oh yes, they have a deep cultural tradition in sorcery and witchcraft, google search: Australian Sorcery Act and thatll give you some more insight into how deep it goes, though I imagine being from there you may already know a thing or two about it.

>one of the cannibal ones
While I recognize that modern culture frowns on cannibalism for obvious reasons, recognize that from a different cultural context, it can actually be considered cruel NOT to eat the dead, some cultures believe that it condemns the dead to eternal purgatory if they are not consumed. We dont all paint with the same brush so try not to leap to conclusions. Same for "headhunting".

I imagine they get annoyed because its difficult to explain it to most people who do not understand the culture. If you truly want to learn, open your horizons and don't judge them based on your own cultural frame of reference. I am neither condoning nor condemning their, or your beliefs, only encouraging you to recognize that you may not have the whole story.

I am not personally familiar with PNG practices but you may do some searches for Hewa, Etoro and Asmat religious beliefs, witchcraft and sorcery. Unfortunately most of the front page is about the current witch-hunts. You'll have to dig deeper.

It looks like the folks you're looking for are called "sanguma" which I can only assume are related to the Sangoma of south africa. Now Sangoma I can tell you much more about, but Im not sure how their traditions differ.

>>19336479
>A composition into the abstract...
I didn't order this word salad.

>The beast masters were even smaller as a sect of old magic users.
Can you cite me even one actual source for their existence or cultural background? Doesn't even need to be anthropological, Ill take whatever you've got, even if its anecdotal.

> they were plentiful in England and Arabia.
[citation needed]

>Western tradition brought you the INTERNET.
Were not talking about technological innovations of the last half century, were talking about cultural and anthropological traditions in magical praxis.

>If that is not a show of superiority I do not know what is.
Socio-economic superiority has nothing to do with cultural magical beliefs. Conflating the two is silly. If were going to do that, atheistic nationalism is the most powerful "magic" on earth.

>The wizardry I refer to is that of the European variety.
ok cool, could you be more specific? Asatru? Seidr? Cunning? Grimoiric tradition?

Or are you talking about occidental practices like OTO,Thelema, GD etc? Theres a LOT of europe and a LOT of "european" traditions.

>derived from "source"
No, it is not. It is derived from the latin "sors" meaning fate or fortune.

>>19336528

>Beast masters
Better to show you the old ways instead~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFXU7o0fYII

How hard is it to believe you can train an animal to speak in human tongues? Is not man in part beast?

>England and Arabia
They were small and irrelevant, kept to themselves, all traces gone except for some old texts that speak of men who could "see through the eyes of animals".

>Technological innovations
"Any technology sufficiently advanced enough is indistinguishable from magic."

>Specific
Specifically, Grimoiric era tradition, where text and knowledge of occult matters began to be amassed by certain eccentric scholars.

>Latin
Which in turn was twisted into it's modern English meaning today as many "sourcers" began popping out after the renaissance claiming powers emminating from their enchanted magical "sources" (Rocks, crystal balls, chicken bones etc).

Ergo, sorcery. Not sorsery. Not sourcery, but a bastard phrase of the two.

English is a bastardized language.

You don't get to know, whitey.
Fuck off, imperialist nazi scum.

>>19336597
>Better to show you the old ways instead~
I am well aware that corvids can mimic speech, this does not explain who the "beast masters" are, either as individuals, as a religious practice, or as a cultural phenomenon. I have no trouble at all believing that certain animals could be taught to speak and never claimed I did, this is a non-sequitur.

>all traces gone except for some old texts that speak of men who could "see through the eyes of animals".
[CITATION NEEDED]

>"Any technology sufficiently advanced enough is indistinguishable from magic."
if you're going to use quotations, get the quote right and attribute it (its Arthur C Clarke btw). While it's a neat quote, again, we are not discussing technological innovations we are discussing the existence and nature of various magical practices and beliefs. At least, we are, Im no longer sure what you are doing.

>Grimoiric era tradition
Ok finally that's a straight answer, so what are we saying about grimoiric tradition? That it invented the internet? Or that it was not elementally or naturally focused? That it was somehow "superior"? Just want to be clear.

>Which in turn was twisted into it's modern English meaning today
Uhh no the english word 'source' is derived from the old french 'sourse' and in turn from latin surgere. The two are not related no matter how badly you wish it to be so. Sorcery is not a corruption of "source" sorry. It is not a "bastardization" the words derived differently and sound similar. This honestly is easy stuff to look up, you can fact check stuff before you say it.

>>19336646
Now.
What is a fact checker doing in a belief based web page? Curious?

>>19336659
A belief in the supernatural, paranormal or mystical does not preclude the ability or desire to use proper grammar and to avoid talking out of one's asshole on subjects they have not studied.

Still waiting on those citations broham.

>>19336685
They are learning to use the phone keyboards let them be.