Origin of Magick - A Question

hey6 anyone seen 1408 its R EALLY good

>>19331201
If you're going to spam or something, make more effort xD.
My question still stands.

Started with animist/sun & moon worship/shamanistic stuff during prehistorical times. Stacking huge rocks on each other, painting stuff on cave walls and what have you. It would have been mostly verbal prior to written languages so we obviously have little fame of reference for what or why they did anything, the common themes are just things you can actually see in nature around you though.

>>19331232
Interesting, but what do you think they were 'channeling' as it were?
They clearly had some belief and reason to do these things. It wasn't just a random creation.

Do you think that Magic is in the world then, innately? In nature?

I would go with literal force, even if the magic comes from another being. Where in the mind it draws from, I don't know. Belief? Emotion? Will? Maybe all of these? Maybe it's just about practice, and you can even adjust the source of the magic.

As far as physical origins, no, I don't believe in any. It comes from outside of reality, in the mass of uncertainty and unknowability that permeates and exists outside of any deterministic system.

I believe in leylines for whatever reason, even though I have zero experience with them or any reason to believe that they exist. It's more like a "Why not?" belief than anything. Origin, I have no idea.

>>19331248
It's such an interesting unknown.
So many ideas of how to tap into it, but nobody seems to know what exactly they're tapping into. People just have something, and the results, and depending on the results claim it as good, or bad.

>>19331264
I should've rephrased my question, although fascinating graph.
My question relates more to the where Magick derives from in a physical sense. Whether you believe it is a gift from a god for a prayer, or from your own mind created by your beliefs.

Interesting evolution though.

>>19331242
Honestly it was likely just trying to explain things they saw around them on a regular enough basis to see patterns. Ancient societies loved to look at moon phases and stars, everyone paid attention to seasons and what animals and plants would do so they could eat on a regular basis. Fertility idols and ancient dicks drawn all over history are around for obvious reasons. Thunder gods are popular everywhere because of how scary that shit must be to someone who doesn't know why its happening.

Same sort of reasoning goes into why pyramids show up all over the world, it's a surprisingly easy way to stack dirt and rocks believe it or not.

>>19331177
In my opinion, magic power has a literal relationship with the forces of nature, if u know the relation between the elements who compose the material reality u have better possibilities of manipulate it in ur favor, rituals and witchcraft only exploits this point. Cience, philosophy or art can be forms of magic.

Sorry for my english.

The most simple way to put it is that it comes from everywhere. It's natural energy, just like radiation or electricity, of a type that science cannot comprehend (yet) that runs like an electrical current all throughout our plane of existence. It's the same stuff that makes up souls. "Magic" per se, is a person using this energy to perform an act, such as healing for example. It also, in a way, operates 100% according to the laws of physics.

For example, your microwave. It uses microwave radiation to agitate the molecules in your food, which produces friction. The friction produced by the agitated molecules produces heat, this is what heats your food. Pyromancy works the same way, through the agitation of molecules until they combust. Those monks that walk over coals? It's the same but opposite. They prevent the molecules from moving at all, thereby prevent themselves from being burnt. All 100% by the laws of physics, even though modern science (and possibly the monks themselves) don't understand how it works.

Humans 100% have the ability to channel this energy through intense focus, opening your third eye allows you to conduct the current the same way electricity is conducted. Once you're connected to the grid, so to speak, it's up to you to decide how to utilize it.

It's a little clunky to put into words with such a vague question. Feel free to ask specific questions if you want more specific answers

>>19331291
this
shit's like air
nobody sees it and they barely feel it

>>19331290
It's okay, you'll get there.
English is a clunky language! Don't get down on it.

>>19331291
So it's fitted to emotion and will like the other poster said.

Your explanation would certainly make sense, I guess I'll ask two questions that are on my mind.
> 1: How exactly would one access this 'grid', as 'opening your third eye' seems like a vague statement?
> 2: Do you believe that synchronised moments (E.g. Kek, Baron Trump) are influenced by your said force?
> 3: Do you believe it is a singular force, or more of an polytheism, but of energy?
> 4: Since we do not have massive proof that these things exist explicitly, would you say that humans are perhaps weakly magical? Rather than able to command it at all?

Lot of questions, I'll apologise for that! But I'm interested in your post!
Skip any questions you do not want to answer. I don't own your time, but it is interesting.

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4MB, 1070x216px

think of magic this way:

in order to move your body, you have to turn food into kinetic energy. you can't see it happen with the naked eye. until recent history, no one knew how the things you ate effected your body. scientific research, paired with technology, has shown us how digestion works.

the same is true about magic. we have a lot of strange, unexplainable phenomena that science ignores because it's rather bizzare to most advanced cultures today.

>>19331388
How would you propose studying such a thing? Or, tapping into it? As I imagine many people on this board are.

I agree with everything you have said! Just curious about what you'd guess it'd be, or what you've experienced it as.

>>19331177
seeing as how its not real at all it comes from your imagination you fucking twit.

>>19331425
> "Starting from the premise that magick in some sort actually exists"

Where did I say I thought it was real? Exactly?
And where did I say it wasn't a psychological thing?

Answer: I never said any off that.
Don't pull out strawman just because you want to be edgy.

>>19331318

> 1: How exactly would one access this 'grid', as 'opening your third eye' seems like a vague statement?

To continue the electricity metaphor, your material body is a house, your "third eye" is the power pole, the grid is the Godhead, or the current of cosmic energy that gives life to physical things. The "third eye" is a metaphor that entered the public consciousness due to ancient Indian artwork. It's not actually an invisible eye, it's your pineal gland. It's the gate that cosmic energy enters your body through. One opens this gate by intense focus and force of will. You have to believe otherwise the door remains shut. Material forces in thrall to the Demiurge (more on this later) seek to keep the masses from having access to this energy, one of the ways they do this is by water fluoridation, which calcifies the pineal gland and renders it inactive. This is why "poor" countries such as India have more of a belief in the transmundane, they lack the material infrastructure needed to pollute the soul.

> 2: Do you believe that synchronised moments (E.g. Kek, Baron Trump) are influenced by your said force?

Yes and no. The mundane answer is that the more that people share an idea, the more that other people are going to be exposed to it. However, a material form may be imbued with energy through the focus and belief (transfer of energy) of many people. This is "meme magic". Pepe is a material form, a picture for people to focus their will upon. Through this focus, or transfer of energy, they created Kek, a being with the ability to influence the material world.

> 3: Do you believe it is a singular force, or more of an polytheism, but of energy?

This is a very loaded question that deserves it's own post. More on this later.

1/2

>>19331177
In my opinion, magic power has a literal relationship with the forces of nature, if u know the relation between the elements who compose the material reality u have better possibilities of manipulate it in ur favor, rituals and witchcraft only exploits this point. Cience, philosophy or art can be forms of magic.

Sorry for my english.
>>19331177

If some of you guys assume that the magic has its fudament in some psychologic principle, you`ve to assume the reality of something like the ego who supports it. And is hard to think how that thing adquire temporal continuum and consistency if we think that the material substract who compose the universe is in constant change.

>>19331546
>something like the ego
Not necessarily. You could go with an "eternal flow" mindset, whereby you need to let yourself feel the water before you can learn to direct it. Rather than trying to beat/will the river into doing what you want, you have to respect it for what it is and work with that.

I'm not saying it's one or the other, just saying that assuming some sort of psychological basis doesn't imply magic works any one way.

>>19331546
Most people make things like this secular, by focusing upon their impact, and looking at the mental processes behind such things. An example of this would be the placebo effect.

> Man does ritual to bring himself to good health.
> Believing that he is being helped, he is less stressed.
> Due to less stress and trauma, he is able to more readily cope with the problems.
> Boom, healing magic.
> Man has seen ritual, and it has had a psychological effect on him, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That's how I've always viewed it anyhow, I'm yet to encounter anything that brings me across to the physical view of magic. But there are some compelling arguments to be made.

>>19331318
>>19331531

> 4: Since we do not have massive proof that these things exist explicitly, would you say that humans are perhaps weakly magical? Rather than able to command it at all?

We lack proof because we lack understanding. We are "weak" yes, the same way a baby is weak, not because of an intrinsic flaw to our form but because we are not developed enough to harness our potential. However, if that potential were harnessed to it's fullest extent, we'd become similar to what you would think of as a deity. Not only are we simply not ready, there are forces actively trying to hold us back.

As for your third question...oh man here we go.

The energy itself flows from a single source, the Godhead. The Godhead is pure energy without form, it is the wellspring of the soul. When we die, our souls (energies with our unique conscious imprints) return to the Godhead to rejoin the current (eternal life).

Mono/poly theism are crude labels. There are..things...that, compared to your average human, are comparable in power and scope to what you would think of as a "God", but they are not. The Demiurge is one of them.

The Demiurge is a manifestation of the dark side of human consciousness, the side that rapes children, murders innocents, etc. The Demiurge created our physical plane by utilizing the energies of the Godhead in order to have beings to dominate and consume. If a soul is stained by the corruption of the physical plane, instead of rejoining the Godhead they are consumed by the Demiurge, strengthening it.

Jesus was a manifestation of the Godhead, a being sent here to our plane to give mortals a means to escape the Demiurge and ensure oneness with the Godhead upon our physical death.

I know you're probably a skeptic, hence the questions, and that's all probably a lot to swallow, but....it is what it is.

>>19331614
A ritual is nothing more than a magnifying glass to focus your energy. They're completely superfluous if one's faith is strong enough. The fact the placebo effect exists at all is evidence that our will and belief can have a physical effect.

>>19331177
>>>19331546
>>something like the ego
>Not necessarily. You could go with an "eternal flow" mindset, whereby you need to let yourself feel the water before you can learn to direct it. Rather than trying to beat/will the river into doing what you want, you have to respect it for what it is and work with that.
>

I think that the human limitation to understend the relation between all the components of the river is, itself, the existence condition of the magic. We can talk about the human perception and thought capacity to understend the movement of things and its shape change in a cualitative way, couldnt be messurable.

>>19331531
>>19331648

so basically the gnostics had it nailed, huh

>>19331732
Pretty much.

OP if you have anymore questions I'll do my best to answer.

>>19331177
>>>19331546
>Most people make things like this secular, by focusing upon their impact, and looking at the mental processes behind such things. An example of this would be the placebo effect.
>
>> Man does ritual to bring himself to good health.
>> Believing that he is being helped, he is less stressed.
>> Due to less stress and trauma, he is able to more readily cope with the problems.
>> Boom, healing magic.
>> Man has seen ritual, and it has had a psychological effect on him, a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
>That's how I've always viewed it anyhow, I'm yet to encounter anything that brings me across to the physical view of magic. But there are some compelling arguments to be made.


I think magic and reality substract is, in fact, metaphysical, and I dont know why we tend to separate the materia and its perceptional manifestation, there we have only dimensions of one same thing. The temporal dimension isnt a cronologic thing.

>>19331177
There is a subtle layer of reality which some people perceive (or might be trained to perceive) that is called the "astral".

It can be manipulated (sometimes unconsciously) through strong emotions. Its "energies" can be created, manipulated, banished, whatever. They can also be read through divination methods.

All these work at an unconscipous level, and can alter the chance of events. You can use energy to create a desired effect or even "entities" which are just stable energies that remain there longer.

If you read about magickal traditions all around the world, you'll find a lot of similarities, even if the metaphors they use differ. In the end we're all trying to unveil the same phenomenon.

In some sense, you could say that in the astral level, its like having another chain of causality, which usually is difficult to observe.

>>19331531
>>19331648

you're deluded my dude

I only opened this thread because of Ghost

>>19332441
same

>>19331177
>33
>11
>77

Damn, I feel obligated to answer genuinely in the face of all of your repeating numbers.

From my perspective, the universe is a physical emanation of the thoughts of an all-encompassing consciousness that we are all a part of. Since everything is therefore, on an essential level, thought-forms, it makes sense that intensely focused thought (things like rituals and sigils are just techniques that are able to hone focus) can manifest change in the universe.

>>19331242
I think it comes from nature. It's the manipulation of energy, and energy has existed since the dawn of the universe. Somehow we tapped into this.

>>19334633
Interesting, seems this is the common thread.

>>19331177
Nature eats your body, but your soul lives on in all life on Earth.

>>19331177
Superstition. People looking for answers and doing their best to explain the external phenomena around them, and the internal emotional and mental feelings they had.

>>19331242
Literally the most popular stories outlasted the less popular stories. Some guy, probably starved or drugged, or just desperate, started explaining the world as they under stood it; a moon god, a sea demon, whatever, and people who liked that story started following suit. The ones that gained more followers outlasted the ones that didn't.

>>19334633
since you seem to be on the right track I will tell you to look into the concept of information systems as it is the emergent paradigm in magical thought. Ill also encourage you to move away from the idea that:
>intensely focused thought can manifest change in the universe.
and instead focus on the concept that all thought, always manifests change in the universe, without exception. Intensity and focus may not actually be relevant to efficacy.

Before the naysayers jump in with "think a fireball into existence" or whatever, you can, but it wont necessarily manifest the way you're expecting, or when. The system has rules of consistency that are above your will.