Something besides Buddhism

>>19288946
Yoga is not only used by Buddhists, anon.
>Wot iz Goo-gull?

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>>19288946
What is your issue with Buddhism?
I'm just curious mainly.
As for recommendations go, you could try Kabbalah.

>>19288946
I've found a religion that works for me. Sort of involves what you're looking for. About to start writing how it works and anyone who seeks to learn from it I'll help guide. What I write will be made free to all, can't put a timeframe on completion date

>>19288963
Basically, started meditating, enjoyed the presence and peace of mind.

Then I really started reading about Buddhism and enlightenment: I am not my body. I am not my mind. I am not a person. I don't even exist. I don't have free will. I am just a container for all phenomena which occur in life. Just a spectator. All of reality is an illusion, and all things I enjoy in life are illusions. Nondaulity. Abiding in the nondual. I have no agency. I don't exist, and I have never existed.

Honestly, fuck that shit.

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>>19289000
>Honestly, fuck that shit.

You aren't going to elaborate? You're not going to point out why you take issue with all of those tenets you brought up? Sounds like you don't think hard enough to solidify a reason for not liking it, anon. WHY do those points you brought up bother you? What about them do you take issue with?

>>19289035
Do I really need to explain why I take issue with the belief that I don't exist and that I don't have free will and that I am some sort of observer, just along for the ride? In short, I find those ideas extremely depressing and dis-empowering, and capable of causing immense cognitive dissonance and mental anguish.

These ideas are purported as 'truths', just like any other religion. You are told to sit down and meditate, and you are told what you are going to find and what it means, just like any other religion. I am skeptical as to whether someone, without these tenets, would find these 'truths'. Also, not to mention: karma, reincarnation, 'life is suffering' and a whole slew of other life denying frames of mind.

It's life denying. It's nihilistic. Buddhism contains the potential to induce destructive psychosis. The only thing that it got right was mindfulness and concentration.

>>19289076
take those parts and go look at another religion. take some more parts you like and get rid of the parts that you don't like.

do this with everything in your life and become the person you truly want to be.

this is real freedom.

you exist if you say you do. it is as simple as that.

>>19289076
Dude just come to your own conclusions or contemplate the things you disagree with further. Build your own church, you're already doing all the work by meditating anyway

Contemplate and meditate until gnosis is achieved

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>>19289076
>I find those ideas extremely depressing and dis-empowering, and capable of causing immense cognitive dissonance and mental anguish.
What that says to me is that you don't have the mental fortitude to cope with the idea that you don't matter.
I guess I can't fault you for not being able to handle the fact that you are only your mind.
If you can't handle the tenets of Buddhism then another option would still be lost on you.

Also, Buddhism isn't life denying. It doesn't ask its adherents to give up art or stifle other ideologies in the case of the many countries it was transplanted into. The "Life is Suffering" adage is not false, either. Life is suffering at all times because life is growth. Suffering is the catalyst for the many cycles we live through, and has always been that. Suffering isn't inherently negative though. The idea that you are Karmicallly connected to all the other living entities on earth and that you might just as easily be the victim and perpetrator in every crime that ever occured is more life affirming than denying. It means that those crimes perpetrated were nothing more than a parent teaching.

>>19289000
>container for all phenomena which occur in life.
Nice numbers, we are already dead and the body is our tomb.

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>>19289076

Camus, Sartre nad Kierkegaard aren't for you either I guess-

cough cough midichlorians cough cough.

>>19289132
Ok first of all, if I don't exist, then there is no 'me' to have any mental fortitude nor to be unable to handle the tenets of Buddhism, so your entire argument is invalid.

Ignoring this, Buddhism IS life denying. For god's sake, it's denying that you even exist. Also Buddhism asks you to give up all passions and desire, including, but not limited to, attachment to form. Which would be your very own human body.

It seems that you either have a cursory view of Buddhism or that you are suffering from extreme cognitive dissonance.

>>19289076
>In short, I find those ideas extremely depressing and dis-empowering, and capable of causing immense cognitive dissonance and mental anguish.
Congratulations Neo, you've exited the Matrix.

>>19289243
>if I don't exist, then there is no 'me' to have any mental fortitude nor to be unable to handle the tenets of Buddhism
THAT'S THE POINT
YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO REALIZE YOUR OWN NON-EXISTENCE
GAHHH YOU ARE SO CLOSE

>>19289243
>>19289305
THE "ME" IS A CONSTRUCT OF THE ILLUSORY EGOIC MIND
YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO GIVE THAT UP SO YOU ABANDON THE TRUTH AND SEEK A LESS PAINFUL AVENUE

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>>19289243
Are "you" the same person "you were" 5 seconds ago? 5 minutes ago? 5 hours ago? 5 days ago? 5 weeks ago? 5 months ago? 5 years ago? 50 years ago? 500 years ago?

Will "you" be the same person in 5 seconds? in 6 minutes? in 5 hours? in 5 days? in 5 weeks? in 5 months? in 5 years? in 60 years? in 500 years?

>>19289334
I guess it depends on what your definition of the "same person" is.

If what makes me the same person is that I share the same body, the answer is debatable. Is same body subjective - meaning do people recognize me as me? (then yes) Is it objective (meaning do I contain all the same cells) then possibly no.

Is the same meaning that Not a single thing about me at all has changed? Then definitely not because I'm constantly receiving new experiences and new stimuli, so I can't possibly be the exact same.

If the same means that I share the same chain of experiences then arguably definitely yes. I'm the person who was born on the date and time and place it says on my birth certificate. That's when my existence started, and just because I shed a few hair or skin cells doesn't make that fact a falsehood.

But really the answer to this question depends largely on your own perspective.

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>>19289373
Congrats dude, you now know what buddhist mean when they say "you are not you"

>>19288946
Yes transhumanism

its matrix style and you get to meditate not only on yourself but everything under the programmer metatron dominion.

>>19288946
Shattari sufism.

The path they offer is very much opposite to Buddhism; they encourage and uphold the self as an ideal. If your idea of self-discipline primarily includes willpower and determination, then you should learn more.

>>19288963
Buddhism as a continuously developing system is updated by people 100% involved in society and its complex life, it has a huge pool of followers and contributors.

While kabbalah is small, isolated and pretty much ignored right now.

>>19289094
Anon that was really wise, you have +internetz.

>>19289076
Then take mindfulness and concentration and other such practices from world religions, take either just the abstract ideas explained in a suitable way for you or summarize everything in equally valuable metaphors and keep them with you - this last part is obviously the focus on the mythology aspects...

Just keep the meaning of stories, don't take them as realities just channels trough which you gain understanding or useful emotions towards phenomena or things.


After you done all this, put it together into a system you can respect and call it Wellness - practice it until you attain something impactful in your life and the life of others around you.

>>19289305
>>19289314

Yea, no thanks. I'll pass on your self induced psychosis and cognitive dissonance. Thanks. Have fun in nirvana. Keep drinking the koolaid.

>>19288946
JUST DO IT! desu

b

>>19288946
Buddhism is just bhakti yoga without the belief on the afterlife. Or this life

>>19289810
Have fun in samsara.

>>19289373

There is a "you" and there is a "self" that you "own", even in the context of Buddhism (or some interpretations). However, those things are not objects, they are subjects. A subject is a conceptual object.

Some people say that subjects, or conceptual objects, don't truly exist, because they are mere transient patterns without any true core. But as you delve further into Buddhism, you realize that the only static object in existence is nothingness itself; which is to say, there is no such thing as an object, or a non-transient, static existence with one single true core.

You'll find that anything you thought you could call an object, is truly just as transient as the concepts without true form. If an "object" is solid ice, then "subjects" are more akin to moving water or vapor. However, the rigid static nature of the solid ice is merely an illusion that hides the transient nature of the continuously humming materials, atoms, within.

I hope this helps. If not, then, at least, I can assure you that there are Buddhist sects that will help you foster an understanding of the teachings in a way that does not rob you of the beauty you see in life.

To feel robbed by Buddhist teachings shows a mere superficial understanding of them. Continue to contemplate, and you'll find that things are exactly as they always have been, and that the tricky, scary words and ideas are just a way of upending your way of perception, allowing you to see the world with fresh eyes.

One last thing: I am not a Buddhist. Buddha died so long ago that I do not believe he would condone people calling themselves Buddhist based on warped fragments of his teachings.

Take the Buddha's lessons and apply them like tools to the religion that is your own spirituality. I think that's what he would want. He's not blocking you from heaven by denying him; quite the contrary, unlike, say, many interpretations of Christianity.

>>19290539

Some of the highest saints of Buddhism do, in fact, have fun in Samsara. They're called Bodhisattva and they're the angels that the old deities could only wish they could compare to, in terms of sheer illuminating beauty.

>>19290745
>You'll find that anything you thought you could call an object, is truly just as transient as the concepts without true form. If an "object" is solid ice, then "subjects" are more akin to moving water or vapor. However, the rigid static nature of the solid ice is merely an illusion that hides the transient nature of the continuously humming materials, atoms, within.

Furthermore, enlightenment could be aptly compared to the light of the sun that melts the ice, dispelling the illusion of the ice's cold permanence, with a warmth we might call loving-kindness; that loving-kindness is the true source of all wisdom. Just as the light of the Sun unveils the transience of solid ice, the light of loving-kindness melts ignorance into wisdom.

>>19289000
>I am not my body. I am not my mind.

The five aggregates are considered real, they're just transient and changing in a way that negates a sense of the package being forever consistent.

>I am not a person. I don't even exist.

"You" are in human form. However, you are not an island of being unto yourself. You emerge in relation to other things, with the boundaries not being totally clear. Buddhism is not metaphysically nihilistic.

>I don't have free will. I am just a container for all phenomena which occur in life. Just a spectator.

You have will, and it's not a matter of pure determinism, but rather the concept of causality itself being flawed. It always leads to infinite regress. Compare a linear trajectory (epiphenomenalism) with a lattice where each vector is defined by position to other vectors (dependent origination).

You are indeed a spectator. There is nothing "just" about it. That is what it means to be a conscious being.

>All of reality is an illusion

Maya does not mean the world is unreal. It's just not as it initially seems.

>all things I enjoy in life are illusions.

Not at all, but the idea that your desires can truly remain satisfied by impermanent things leads to suffering. It is not to become free of enjoyment and craving entirely, but to understand it, and move towards a middle path between self destructive hedonism and masochistic asceticism.

>Nondaulity. Abiding in the nondual.

A negative concept has no properties of its own. We cannot truly visualize nothing. When we imagine "not driving to work" we may imagine walking, riding a bike, or staying at home, but these are simply alternative positives. Nonduality is fact. The idea that the number two holds a special place in the universe is retarded.

>Honestly, fuck that shit.

"I react negatively to the dharma. Therefore, it's not true."

Philosophy similar to Buddhism was developed independently by Hume, Schopenhauer, gnostics and many others. Why, if it's not true?

>>19289076
>life denying
>nihilistic

Stop parroting Nietzsche. How can a system with karma as an objective property of the universe possibly be nihilistic? It makes no sense.

>>19289076
>dis-empowering

Buddhism is not about power.

>>19289076
Look up 'approaching Aro gTer'. Is about a Vajrayana lineage explained by an atheist practicant.

It has another perspective

>>19288946
gnosticism

>>19289000
>>19289076

""The world in general, Kaccaayana, inclines to two views, to existence[2] or to non-existence.[3] But for him who, with the highest wisdom, sees the uprising of the world as it really is,[4] 'non-existence of the world' does not apply, and for him who, with highest wisdom, sees the passing away of the world as it really is, 'existence of the world' does not apply."

""'Everything exists,'[9] this is one extreme [view]; 'nothing exists,' this is the other extreme. Avoiding both extremes the Tathaagata[10] teaches a doctrine of the middle: Conditioned by ignorance are the formations... [as SN 12.10]... So there comes about the arising of this entire mass of suffering. But from the complete fading away and cessation of ignorance there comes the cessation of the formations, from the cessation of the formations comes the cessation of consciousness... So there comes about the complete cessation of this entire mass of suffering."

source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.015.wlsh.html (Kaccaayanagotto Sutta: Kaccaayana)

>>19288946
Just adjust yourself to the idea that you are always schooling/being schooled. When you don't know something you want to know, ask. When you know something others want to know, tell them. Slowly but surely you'll get over your shame and you'll become your own person. A new, disarming personality instead of a parrot.

>>19288946
>Look up Esoteric Cults.
>Use Delusion to warp the mind until it settles on nothing

Fucks you for life though.

>>19289000
>>19289076

" "Now, householders, of those contemplatives & brahmans who hold this doctrine, hold this view — 'There is nothing given, nothing offered, nothing sacrificed. There is no fruit or result of good or bad actions. There is no this world, no next world, no mother, no father, no spontaneously reborn beings; no brahmans or contemplatives who, faring rightly and practicing rightly, proclaim this world and the next after having directly known and realized it for themselves' — it can be expected that, shunning these three skillful activities — good bodily conduct, good verbal conduct, good mental conduct — they will adopt & practice these three unskillful activities: bad bodily conduct, bad verbal conduct, bad mental conduct. Why is that? Because those venerable contemplatives & brahmans do not see, in unskillful activities, the drawbacks, the degradation, and the defilement; nor in skillful activities the rewards of renunciation, resembling cleansing." source: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.060.than.html (Apannaka Sutta)

>>19289243
>Ok first of all, if I don't exist, then there is no 'me' to have any mental fortitude nor to be unable to handle the tenets of Buddhism, so your entire argument is invalid.

why does there need to be a "me" to "have" mental fortitude in order for mental fortitude to exist? why can't there just be mental fortitude?
Where is the "me"? What makes it "me"? What is it made of?

>>19291414

Please explain how buddhism uses delusion to warp the mind, and how buddhism settles on nothing or asks it followers to settle on nothing

>>19289000
>>19289076
>>19289243
>>19291362

extended version:

""'Everything exists': That is one extreme. 'Everything doesn't exist': That is a second extreme. Avoiding these two extremes, the Tathagata teaches the Dhamma via the middle: From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn12/sn12.015.than.html

>>19288946
No. Not even Nietzsche cared about discipline in any real cognitive sense.

>>19290865
>You are indeed a spectator. There is nothing "just" about it. That is what it means to be a conscious being.

consciousness is one aggregate of five and is not self like the rest. Consciousness is the spectator but the other aggregates have other functions

Buddhists arguing with Buddhists over how to boo this.

>>19290921
>lineage
right...
they're as cuckoo as can be, makey-uppy stuff, meme-tier pseuds.
find a proper Vajrayana lineage if you want to practice Tantra

>>19288946
The ancient hermeticism were required to not speak for 2 years.

When you finish that, you'll be pro.

Yoga is for Mandal expansion and metaphysical understanding.

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have any of you considered bhuddism from the point of view that the "damma" within which "kamma" reacts to itself could be an everpresent computer virus uploaded by some nerd with ansible?
like, to make the buddhas story have more relevant information by being able to state that any other ansible virus activating anywhere in the universe would be able to be recorded more efficiently if that virus could compartmentalize dataspace efficiently enough to record more variations of the data whenever recieved than times the data has actually been available for reception.

>>19292072
All vajrayana sucks ass

Find a proper Kashmiri lineage if you want to practice Tantra

>>19288946
This is not the place for asking that question OP. All you'll got is autistic enraged replies by schizophrenic zealots telling you why you should go with whatever "religion" or school they believe in because it's the ultimate truth, just because they practicing it makes themselves the chosen one in the universe, even if that contradicts whatever they believe in.

tl;dr
Unironically ask Reddit and you'll receive better, genuine responses unlike here

>>19288946
Hermeticism. See the exercises in Introduction to Hermeticism by Franz Bardon if you're interested