Redpill me on Bhairava please

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>>19284759
read a fucking tantra cunt

>>19284845
No u

>>19285225
No you you cock smoker

>>19285483
U first

>>19286222
ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh he has to read it now

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>>19284759
Bhairava is a tantric demon that does black magic and fuck you up.
And I dont mean in a direct way.
Its indirect and slow. Like a parasite. You wont even notice you have been infected.
And its mostly mental.

Main symptomps of being under the influence of Bhairava include:

Your mind not being able to rest. Not feeling satisfied, even if everything is fine and well. Always feeling restless. Thinking you always need more and more, but no matter what you get you wont feel hapiness. You can not seem to relax and it feels like you always need to be distracted. Eventually depression can also happen.
The energy of Bhairava is mostly concentrated in large cities where desires and attachments are very high.
When Bhairava sweeps across a country it causes war, major distrust, and disputes.
When the energy of Bhairava enters the mind of beings it causes a lot of negativity around them.

Instead you should worship Vajrakilaya. (pic related) who crushes Bhairava and consort of Bhairava under his feet.
Vajrakila means indestructible dagger, because Vajrakilaya penetrates and crushes egoism into dust.
The flames around him block and burn up all energies of Bhairava.
His wings are made of razor sharp blades that cut off the life blood of Bhairava.
Vjrakilaya is the loving protector of all beings.

>>19287442
>Bhairava
>a demon
People like you should be executed

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>>19287582
Typical of somebody controlled by demonic Bhairava to call for for violence and murder.

>>19287442
Yaralava is that you?

>>19287442
> Bhairava is a tantric demon that does black magic and fuck you up.
Isn't he a manifestation of Shiva?

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>>19287719
Sure. If you want me to be, I can be anyone you want.

>>19287735
Shiva is a worldly god thats bows down to Vajrakilaya.
All the worldly gods are temporal and will fade away when this universe will be destroyed. New gods will come in the new universe, but Vajrakilaya is permanent and undestructible, remaining troughout endless time.

Vajrakilaya actually does not kill anyone but only transforms through the 4 powers of transformation.
Pacifying (turning demons peaceful and removing their harmful behaviour)
Increasing (Making the pacified demons stable and stronger in love)
Magnetizing (Hooking or binding the demons with vows, so they can not turn back to their old destructibe behaviour)
Subjugation(Turning the demons in the protectors or companions of Vajrakilaya and its devotees.)

This is how Vajrakilaya trains all beings from humans and animals to gods and hell beings in the three realms.

>>19288007
Stephen?

What is the place of Vajrabhiarava given the discourse on Bhairava and Vajrakila?

>>19288119
S-saved for transliteration at some point.
Thank you.

>>19288007
>Shiva is a worldly god thats bows down to Vajrakilaya.
how bout no

>>19288177
How about "maybe so"?
Let's apply the theory of hypostates here, in which the Dharma raised up old godforms into novel expressions.
This is, of course, speculation on my part.
A case can seriously be made that the Tibetan expressions are an expansion of the Kashmiri systems.
Both lineages share gurus.
One of the foremost Kaula gurus has taken some kind of Newar empowerment and begun re-syncretizing the systems.
While I have further thoughts, they would not be more relevant than Silence.

>>19288201
>A case can seriously be made that the Tibetan expressions are an expansion of the Kashmiri systems.
How so?
>Both lineages share gurus.
Source?
>One of the foremost Kaula gurus has taken some kind of Newar empowerment and begun re-syncretizing the systems.
Who?

can i turn satan into a plant cell yet so he ignores the unnoticable motion of the plant as it's growing

>>19288226
>How so?
The historical rise of Kaula and Vajrayana can be roughly placed around the time of the Pala Kingdom's sponsored debates between Saivists and Buddhists.

Each developed their own advancements of their systems, borrowing and diverging from each other.

>Source
Matsyendranātha, author of Kaulajnananirnaya, is a founder of the Naths and is occasionally regarded an incarnation of Avalokiteśvara.

>Who
Kulavadhuta

>>19288201
I thought you were a Shivadist

Traitor

>>19288262
>Pala Kingdom's sponsored debates
I've heard you mention this before. Are there any books or anything else on this topic that I could read? Or anything related to the kashmir-tibet stuff you mentioned? I'm interested.

>>19288269
If Kulavadhuta can take the Buddhist and Saivite tantrik empowerment, so can I. Both systems acknowledge the other's power to Liberate.

He's obviously lightyears beyond me, tho.
I need to get to India (or maybe a coast).

>>19287442
It sounds like Bhairava is less a "demon" in the Christian sense and more a process that occurs when too many greedy people come together. How can Bhairava possibly be avoided in this age of Kali Yuga?

How come I've never seen Vajrakilaya mentioned in Vedic texts I've read?

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>>19288079
In the context of Dorje Phurba Vajrabhairava is the pacified form of bhairava. Vajrabhairava is lower then Vajrakilaya. (An arrogant Vajrabairava yogi once tried to kill a humble Vajrakilaya yogi, but the Vajrakilaya yogi overpowered him and turned him into his disciple)

Diptacakra,(Great mother) the consort of Vajrakilaya is also Vajrayogini.
Vajrasattva and Nyema are the peaceful form of Vajrakilaya.
Samantabhadra and Samantabhadri are the primordial form of Vajrakilaya.
Avelokiteshvara/Chenrezig and Arya Tara are the Bodhisattva form of Vajrakilaya.

Vajrakilaya is the absolute representation of Dzogchen.
All yidams come from him.
When Prince Guatama achieved Liberation to become Shakyamuni Buddha he invoked the power of Vajrakilaya to overcome all demons.

The kilaya is a three sided dagger.
Representing the Dharmakaya (absolute truth or space body), Sambhokaya(Yidam body), Nirmanakaya(physical body).
The point of the dagger is the unity of all bodies.
This relates to Dzogchen with the three natures of mind.
Emptiness (Dharmakaya)
Spontanious lumonisity arising out of emptiness(Sambhokaya)
Awareness or knowledge of what arises from emptiness. (Nirmanakaya).

All possible existences are the mandala of Vajrakilaya. When you are aware of the present moment you are Vakrakilaya.
There are no buddhas and no demons since everything is perfect by itself.
Rituals, texts, and so on are not needed.
From prostitutes, to butchers to rapists and murderers. From kings and queens to saints and doctors.
All are the form of Vajrakilaya. All are equal and one.

When on a short retreat break to get food supplies. I met a lama who introduced me to Vajrakilaya and Dzogchen. After that I burned all my books, texts, and notes. Destroyed all ritual objects and implements.
After the retreat is finished I will work in a clothing shop while being a secret or hidden yogi. (Ngagpka).

From the viewpoint of Dzogchen, Vajrayana is merely a tool a nothing more.

>>19288262
>Pala Kingdom's sponsored debates between Saivists and Buddhists.

I would suck a fat dong to have watched this live and understood the language

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Important to note that Bhairava is a devotee of Sankarshana who is an expansion of Lord Balarama. When enacting universal destruction pastimes he receives telepathic instructions from ananta shesha.

>>19288284
>In the context of Dorje Phurba Vajrabhairava is the pacified form of bhairava. Vajrabhairava is lower then Vajrakilaya. (An arrogant Vajrabairava yogi once tried to kill a humble Vajrakilaya yogi, but the Vajrakilaya yogi overpowered him and turned him into his disciple)
This is very compelling...source/further elaboration?

>When on a short retreat break to get food supplies. I met a lama who introduced me to Vajrakilaya and Dzogchen. After that I burned all my books, texts, and notes. Destroyed all ritual objects and implements.
After the retreat is finished I will work in a clothing shop while being a secret or hidden yogi. (Ngagpka).
Good luck and may you attain with the sharpness and clarity of the lightningbolt of Vajrakila's singlepointedness.

>>19288284
>I met a lama that made me burn all my books, texts and notes and made me destroy all my sick ritual gear. Now I'm going to work making clothes for corrupt tibetan monks that handle money while being a "secret yogi"
>I'll practice being aware of the present moment while I sew stupid shit for years
>Then I'll be enlightened for sure
What a shame, another life lost to the evil Tibetan empire. Ah well.

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>>19288303
>he receives telepathic instructions from ananta shesha.
So you haven't given up your Golden Dawn beliefs entirely huh

>>19288322
Not me; I'd buy that Bhairava bows to Vajrakila before I'd buy that Bhairava bows to any Krsna related entity.

Also, I think have a good case that Asidesha's true nature was better preserved in the Zoroastrian currents.

>all this theological argument about hypostates and which beings answer to who

Why not just smoke a doob and worship Parvati? What's there to worry about

>>19288334
Ape, how are you not in that LAM thread? Ever notice how the same shit gets posted over and over after being thoroughly debunked in a manner that would hold up to rigorous academic examination?

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>>19288306
Thank you. Its from Termas of Jigme Lingpa if I remember correctly.
>>19288312
The time for Dzogchen has arrived: (wich is kind of like going to the basics of Zen buddhism, but more developed)

Since awareness of the present moment (nowness) is actually the real Buddha. The completely calm and serene teacher is revealed in one's own innermost heart. When this original awareness is realized as the very nature of reality.
There is no need for whining, or contrived artificial prayers made with grasping and attachment.
By letting go in the free natural flow of uncontrived awareness. Not holding whatever arises.
Buddhahood is obtained. Trough fabricated practices, there is no chance for Liberation.
Let this life by spent in unlimited ease and simplicity of naked awareness.
simply let the entire game of life happen on its own, springing up and falling back like waves
without changing or manipulating anything and notice how everything vanishes and reappears, magically,
again and again, time without end.

Making distinctions of past, present, and future is like making distinctions of different levels of the empty sky.
In the end it is still one whole sky. The mind can only think about the past or future in the present moment. The past and future stand on the ground of the present as it were. And the present moment is the mind. So in the end it still is all one mind, one nature. A simple awareness that is completely open.
It is not so that your mind has awareness or knowledge. Your mind IS awareness and knowledge itself, which is the primordial mind or the natural state.
This awareness is not made out of anything, its formless, devoid of substance, identity-less, not-solid, nothing, and colourless.

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>>19288353
Every other thread can go fuck itself until I'm done conferring with Guruji.

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>>19288355
>notice how everything vanishes and reappears, magically,
>again and again, time without end.
I think there's some...dust in my eyes...or something. That's it....Dust.

http://www.bluelotusassembly.org/vajrakilaya-dorje-phurba/

Ok I'll play with this for a while

I'm very suspicious when anybody says *anything* is the Supreme Deity or "that which remains" when the cycle of universes is complete. Krisha worshippers have kind of fucked with my ability to view Vedic deity with an undiscerning mind.

Besides why would a Being whose sole purpose is to destroy Universal illusion exist after said Illusion is past? Wouldn't it then turn the Dagger on itself?

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>>19288375
>Wouldn't it then turn the Dagger on itself?
>>19288373
>>notice how everything vanishes and reappears, magically,
>>again and again, time without end.
>>19288355

>>19288373
>cries when his internet guru says the most generic, mundane thing about appearances
2deep4ape

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>>19288344
In Dzogchen there is only 1 vow. To never be separated from awareness or the present moment.
Which is based on the Vajrayana vow of never being separated from women and the yidam. (women and the yidam here is merely a code for the present moment)
Dzogchen says Emptiness is devoid or empty of emptiness. Therefore emptiness is form and form is emptiness (from the Heart Sutra) or what is called. Spontaneous, Luminous, Primordial, Intrinsic, Playful, Creative Awareness.
What is also called in Zen the Richness or Fullness of Emptiness.

>>19288375
Vajrakilaya is not a being. Beings do not exist. Everything is the playful appearance of emptiness. That is the main difference with Hinduism who believe that beings and souls actually exist as solid individual entities.
The formless Vajrakilaya is the emptiness. The form Vajrakilaya is the manifestation of emptiness as appearance.

Since illusions are the perfect manifestation of emptiness. Illusions do not have to be destroyed. The only thing that Vajrakilaya destroys is the belief in that illusions are real. (which comes from dualistic ego-clinging)
Because Vakrakilaya is beyond time and is the Great Emptiness. (which is nothing other then your own nature of mind) whatever arises or falls away in emptiness is empty too. (for example entire universes). Absolutely there is no real end and no real beginning.
Relatively we can see a beginning or ending of the universe, however that's merely illusion. In truth its beginningless and endless.

Think about your first memory. Where did come from? Since that is your first memory this life started from that point.
How do you know you were born? You do not have a memory of being born, so you can not say with accuracy you were ever born.
I am not talking about your physical body here. I mean your mind. When did your mind start? Can you see beginning of your mind?
You can not. Because mind has no starting point. Mind is free of all referential points.
>cont

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>>19288410
Rome falls nine times every second.

>>19288284
Thank you for writing and thanks again for the vajrayogini ritual, mahamudra and related instructions, they're powerful. I feel deeper gratitude and appreciation for you than I put well. Vajrayana is a useful tool from the viewpoint of dzogchen why specifically?
After the vajrayogini sadhana, there'a a period of quiet and naturalness like Samantha but without effort and while I'm relating to and being effective in the world. Is this something more like the dzogchen practice? How does one know when to let go of tools and artifice and practice dzogchen? Thank you so much, I apologize for not being faster and clearer.

>>19288420
>women and the yidam here is merely a code for the present moment

That's something I first realized in Western Occultism.

Thank you Guruji

>>19288421
Everyone I know is on that Trance of Sorrow tip so hard. At least some recognize that the sorrow is also joy

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>>19288420
While the lesser vehicles like Mahayana says that everything is like a dream.
Dzogchen says everything is literally a dream.
Dzogchen is so simple that people invented Hinayana, Mahayana, and Vajrayana to better understand it, because they cant belief its so simple.
Even the Buddha has said that everything he said was a lie, because most people are too caught up into dualistic mode of thinking that the Buddha had to use dualistic concepts and lies to point people towards Dzogchen.

>>19288355
Yet while being empty of something, awareness is at the same time responsive, spontaneous, untamed, self-arising, reflexive, open, radiant, and naturally perfect. When awareness fails to become aware of its own inherent self-manifesting awareness the mind is not longer in its natural state, and the world is seen as impure, then the negative emotions arise and the realm of suffering is created.
To see a separation between self and others, is the same as being separated from the the nature of emptiness or the primordial mind. This state of separation is called the dualistic or deluded hallucinating mind.
No words can describe awareness, no example can point to it. Suffering, pain, and sadness does not make it worse, Bliss, pleasure and happiness does not make it better. It has never been born, it has never ceased. It has never been freed from delusion, it has never been deluded. It has never existed, it has never been non existent.
The real sky is (knowing) that suffering and bliss are merely an illusory display of playful awareness.
The majestic ruler of the universe is understood to be one's own awareness.
This victorious monarch, naturally manifest awareness, is present in everyone, but no one realizes it"

>>19288439
>At least some recognize that the sorrow is also joy
Quite.
The spontaneous instantaneous dissolution of the Real only to re-emerge anew is never a sorrowful or joyful process for me. It's just awe inducing. A symphony of perception reduced to basest components.

I can barely reproduce it, and not with regularity, yet.

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>>19288453
Altough we may have gathered around us a large number of friends, and acquaintances with the method of loving kindness, and compassion.
This will be the source of attachments, quarrels, and worries.
To remain alone in solitude is my advice from the heart.

Altough we may get the opportunity to show our great qualities to others. Soon we become attached and begin to desire large amounts of wealth and food. We may begin to distribute offerings from received donations of rich important people, but even though this is the support of good deeds, it will lead to pride and negative actions.
To have our fame and good reputation spread throughout the world will not bring any benefit when you die.
To tame one's own mind and keep it virtues by renunciation and diligence is my advice from the heart.

By taking on responsibilities, bearing witness, and enforcing the law we may reconcile people in their disputes and quarrels thinking it benefits them and we are doing good for all, but still aversion, hatred, greed and attachments arise. Even though caretakers, attendants, managers, and cooks constitute the life blood and the pillars of society. Still people fight, strive, and compete among themselves.
To be without hope and fear and to give up such chores is my advice from the heart.

To hastily gather and carry whatever we think is necessary to help ourselves in our life like statues, sacred scriptures, images, ritual items, offerings, cooking utensils and the like. Eventually it leads to suffering and dispute.
To be abandon all those things, to have little needs, and to limit your activities to just a few is my advice from the heart.

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>>19288453
>Yet while being empty of something, awareness is at the same time responsive, spontaneous, untamed, self-arising, reflexive, open, radiant, and naturally perfect.
For lurkers, fwiw, this is the same basic position as the Kabbalah.

>>19288421
>quote mckenna
>incorrectly, i might add
kek

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>>19288420
>The form Vajrakilaya is the manifestation of emptiness as appearance

you got me with that one, wow. So there is no "worship" of Vajrakilaya there is only "doing"

>>19288453
>This victorious monarch, naturally manifest awareness, is present in everyone, but no one realizes it

>>19288467

So the only way to Salute the true king which is the inner sense of emptiness is to live a hyper ascetic life of isolation? Is it not possible to fling yourself into the world of Maya and Ego while still retaining the sense of the Victorious Monarch within?

that suggestion has a lot of innate implications about the nature of humanity that are difficult to accept

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>>19288455
The Mahasattva Avelokitesvara once became sad at his realizing that everything that appears is a projection of the mind and came to the Buddha to ask:
"If everything is a dream. Does that mean I am the only one, entirely alone?"
The Buddha replied: Yes. Buddhahood involves a tinge of sadness of solitude.

>>19288467
Lovingly pointing out faults to others, with the wish to benefit them and without self-interest gives rise to negative states of mind.
We might be honest, but still it causes pain. When we support our own side and refute the other, we may think this is a good way to win debates, but this also causes negative states of mind.
To be silent and stop talking, and otherwise only speak peacefully, gently, and pleasantly is my advice from the heart.

By praising our own side and belittling others, trough giving preference to our religion we believe we are upholding the teachings, but this is only the cause for attachment and hatred. By finding faults in the teachings of others, we may believe we are wise, but this only accumulates negative deeds.
To give up all the nonsense of religion and to be without bias is my advice from the heart.

There are many texts on science, crafts, medicine, and religion. All methods for gaining understanding, yet to know many things is to ruin the pure simplicity of your mind. It might be excellent to be learned, but whatever we are attached to locks us up in a self-made prison. To amass a multitude of texts, books, notes, and scriptures will only burden you and slow you down, giving no benefit. You are merely fooling yourself.
To abandon studying and to limit your knowledge is my advice from the heart.

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>>19288476
>implying the misquote wasn't VERY intentional
It's all fun and games until reality burns away into sense smoke and reconstitutes itself every few fractions of a second.

>>19288487
>>19288489
>answers my question at the same time I ask

ok I'll admit it you're pretty heady

>>19288489
>Buddhahood involves a tinge of sadness of solitude.
>>19288467
>To remain alone in solitude is my advice from the heart.

I feel like I USED to have a better intuitive grasp of this.

There are so many streams of wisdom to take sips from that it becomes easy to forget my own Well.

>>19288489
>To abandon studying and to limit your knowledge

I'm trying but there is so much knowledge out there to access. It feels like even when I limit my intake I become attached to the experience of realization gained through new information

>>19288530
That's my least favorite advice I've heard in quite some time.

>>19288282
>How come I've never seen Vajrakilaya mentioned in Vedic texts I've read?
Likely because it is Buddhist.

Thank you, internet guru, for showing me the way. I'm about to burn all of my shit and then go work as a tailor. Never going to read anything again. I need to be as simple as possible to be able to comprehend the buddhadharma. Limiting my knowledge is now my top priority.

I had a suspicion that tibetan buddhism was fucking retarded, but now I know for sure. Much appreciated (unsarcastically). I was going to waste time reading thousands of pages about tibetan buddhism but now i wont waste my time. Enjoy being a tailor, oh future-buddha.

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>>19288487
Padmasambhava said:
"My view is as vast as the sky, but my actions are finer then flower."

If your actions follow the View (of emptiness) then you have no morality or compassion at all which is nihilism. (One of the worst demons)
If your View follows your actions. Then you constantly have dualistic thoughts.

>[...] is to live a hyper ascetic life of isolation? You can if you wish to.
Its not specifically necessary. But doing retreats either once in a while will definitely help remove all the dualistic clinging you have built up. Also doing the hundred thousand prostrations and one hundred thousand mantra recitations, and one hundred thousand yidam visualisations is pretty much a requirement to practice Dzogchen perfectly. ACTUALLY... some claim that the hundred thousand ngondro IS the Dzogchen.
[...] fling yourself into the world of Maya [...] still retaining the sense of the Victorious Monarch within?
That is what the secret or hidden yogi is. Somebody who does worldly activities, but at the same time knows its all illusion.
Will you retain your ego? No definitely not. There is a big difference in behavior between a realized hidden yogi and an ordinary person. Secret yogi's are even higher then monks and nuns.

>>19288530
Milarepa said: "Knowledge is literally infinite. If you think you need to study a great deal before practicing, then you will never practice.
The world will go on forever so do not delay your meditation, you fool!"

>>19288530
>>19288536
I'm the resident small minded scholar and the solitude thing is screwing with me much more, in light of recent events.

>>19288556
Maybe it's a sign that chumbley is a faggot and you shouldnt waste your time with your black lodge?

>>19288555
>555
>If you think you need to study a great deal before practicing, then you will never practice.

Ch. 21
THE BLIND WEBSTER
It is not necessary to understand; it is enough to adore.
The god may be of clay: adore him; he becomes GOD.
We ignore what created us; we adore what we create. Let us create nothing but GOD!
That which causes us to create is our true father and mother; we create in our own image, which is theirs.
Let us create therefore without fear; for we can create nothing that is not GOD.

~Liber 333

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>>19288489
Summoning hail and thunderbolts and the like, producing black magic spells and protecting oneself.
We might believe these are activities to subdue those we are hardest to tame.
But this will only consume their minds with hatred, and revenge, leading to war.
To take a humble place and watch your own mind is my advice from the heart.

We may have gained insights and understanding into the ultimate nature of mind and dwelling in a state of non-conceptuality.
But to discuss it with others, and to write spiritual texts, poems, and songs of realization about them, even though they are signs of clear experience, will give rise to conceptualization and misinterpretation. And will increase wandering thoughts and distractions.
To keep away from intellectualization and analysis by maintaining concentration on the natural state is my advice from the heart."

Happiness can not be found
through great effort and willpower,
but is already present,
in open relaxation and letting go.
You do not deserve happiness,
because happiness is your very nature.

Don’t strain yourself,
there is nothing to do or undo.
Whatever momentarily arises
in the body-mind
has no real importance at all,
has little reality whatsoever.
Why identify with,
and become attached to it,
passing judgment upon it and ourselves?

Far better to simply
let the entire game happen on its own,
springing up and falling back like waves
without changing or manipulating anything
and notice how everything vanishes and reappears, magically,
again and again, time without end.

Only our searching for happiness
prevents us from seeing it.
It’s like a vivid rainbow which you pursue
without ever catching,
or a dog chasing its own tail.

Although peace and happiness
do not exist as an actual thing or place,
it is always available
and accompanies you every instant.

>>19288555
>If your actions follow the View (of emptiness) then you have no morality or compassion at all which is nihilism

That's something that's been fucking with me for a long time. Why not just fling yourself into the dark if everything is empiness? What is the basis for Right Action in a world of Ghosts?

>>19288489
>To amass a multitude of texts, books, notes, and scriptures will only burden you and slow you down, giving no benefit
You hear that Ape? Gotta burn that library brah
>>19288550
Toppest kek

>>19288574
>What is the basis for Right Action in a world of Ghosts?
Dharma.
Right action's the easy part.
It's the Hungry Ghosts who are tricky (in my humble opinion/experience).

>>19288586
Dharma towards what if awareness is omnipresent?

>tfw so much concentrated Samarasa ITT you can physically feel it in your mouth

https://youtu.be/dGRBPi4xaJ4

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>>19288595
>Dharma towards
>towards
This isn't a directional thing (afaik).

Dharma's a constant as much as Sahaja.

>>19288561
More like study a great deal WHILE practicing, in my humble opinion. Some would dispute this, I have seen, but it is what has helped me the most thus far. The whole "burn all your texts" sounds Crossing the Abyss-esque, to me.

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>>19288561
Nice! Thank you.

>>19288567
Don’t believe in the reality of good and bad experiences;
they are like today’s ephemeral weather,
like rainbows in the sky.

Wanting to grasp the ungraspable,
you exhaust yourself in vain.
As soon as you open and relax
this tight fist of grasping,
infinite space is there –
open, inviting and comfortable.

Make use of this spaciousness,
this freedom and natural ease.
Don’t search any further
looking for the great awakened elephant,
who is already resting quietly at home
in front of your own hearth.

Nothing to do or undo,
nothing to force,
nothing to want,
and nothing missing –

Emaho! Marvelous!
Everything happens by itself.
(Heart Advice from The Great Seal)

Do not investigate phenomena – investigate the nature of Mind. Once the nature of Mind is discovered, one will know the one thing, whereby everything is self liberated. If one fails to find the nature of Mind, one may discern everything but one will know nothing." - Padmasambhava

>>19288574
Look at Vajrakilaya. (or pic related) Its a man and woman in union. The woman is absolute truth (emptiness, awareness, and the six senses). The man is relative truth (appearance, compassion or love, the contents of the 6 senses or that which arises in the awareness) They are never separate. They are in union. Co-inter-dependent origination.
When you hold your palms together you are uniting man and woman. relative and absolute.
On your 4 fingers of the right hand sit 4 male Buddhas of water, earth, fire, and air.
On your 4 fingers of the left hand 4 female Buddhas of previous mentioned elements.
On your thumb sits Vajrasattva or the Indesctructible being (peaceful form of Vajrakilaya). Who represents space and manifests the other 4 Buddha couples.
On your left palm sits Samantabahdri (woman in pic related) on the moon. On your right palm sits Samantabahdra on the sun.
The Buddha couple in the palms are like I said before the primordial form of Vajrakilaya.

>>19288629
The primordial form is naked without adornments, because it represents the true nature of mind which is unspoiled by thoughts and concepts.

"Oh all you sentient beings of this threefold world [i.e. the entire universe, both visible and invisible]! Because I, the All-Creating Sovereign, have created you, you are My children and equal to Me. Because you are not second to Me, I am present in you ... Oh all you sentient beings of this threefold world, if I were not, you would be non-existent. ... Because all things do not exist outside of Me, I firmly declare that I am all - the All-Creating One.
everything is Me, the All-Creating Sovereign, mind of perfect purity ... I am the cause of all things. I am the stem of all things. I am the ground of all things. I am the root of all things ... There is no other Buddha besides Me, the All-Creating One
"From the three aspects [i.e. the Unborn; no ending; source of the wonder of ceaseless creation] of My nature, i.e. that of the All-Creating One, [comes] the fullness which fulfills all needs." And: "What is known as the revealed Buddha is this evidence of My own being. Because it has the centre, the central vigor, it is the Self of everything. As it does not need any deeds, it is the Buddha since the beginning. As it is free of striving and achieving, it is since the beginning known as great. The Great Self is known as the Great Buddha. This evidence which is unborn and non-conceptual is the dimension of Reality [dharmadhatu] .
There is not one thing which is dependent on another. This great self-perfected bliss will intuitively be understood by the strength of the Self which is incomparable pristine awareness
'Consciousness' means that self-arising wisdom, the true essence, dominates and clearly perceives all the phenomena of the animate and inanimate universe. This self-arising fundamental substance, not produced by causes and conditions, governs all things and gives life to all things" - Samantabhadra

>>19288643
I will show you your own nature. You are me, the source. I am and always have been pure and total consciousness
I am self-arising wisdom that has existed from the beginning. I am the fundamental substance of all phenomena that has existed from the beginning. I am the supreme source of everything, pure and total consciousness
Its being is pure and total consciousness, and its abode is the dimension of essential reality. It shines in the sky of pure instantaneous presence, it pervades all habitats and forms of life, it gives rise to the whole animate and inanimate world. It has no material characteristics that can be shown, it is not an object that can be seen, nor can it be explained in words. This fundamental substance, not produced by causes, transcends all definitions based on concepts
The total space of Vajrasattva is the vast dimension of being in which all is always good. As it is the perfect universal path that liberates all, it is beyond birth, cessation, or being thought
Listen, great being! When you understand my essence you will also understand all the teachers and all the teachings…perceiving my essence you will understand the totality of all phenomena and overcome all actions and efforts, realising the natural perfection in which there exists no effort whatsoever
Marvellous! The sphere of the experience of the Buddhas is not something that is found by seeking it. Like the six sense objects, it is not an object: Thus [those who seek it] are like a blind man trying to grasp the sky…
Not grasping anything, it is free of I
All phenomena are the unchanging natural condition: letting it be without acting, it self-liberates. Spontaneously arising wisdom should not be sought: in liberating itself, it also shows the path of liberation
Meditation is letting be without seeking the ultimate nature that never discloses itself visibly. Hoping to find it as something other, it will never be obtained.
- The All Creating King Samantabhadra

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>>19288629
>Everything happens by itself.

oṃ arapacana dhīḥ

Thank you for that beautiful exegesis on the uniting of Subject and Object.

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>>19288664
>so 'haṃ haṃsaḥ

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>>19288661
Dudjom Rinpoche on the (inferior) systems of Hinayana, Mahayana, and Vajrayana:

"Intellectually fabricated they apply antidotes to and reject that which is not to be rejected. They refer to as flawed that in which there is nothing to be purified, with a mind that desires purification. They have created division with respect to that which cannot be obtained by their hopes and fears that it can be obtained elsewhere. And they have obscured wisdom, which is naturally present, by their efforts in respect to that which is free from effort and free from needing to be accomplished. Therefore, they have had no chance to make contact with genuine, ultimate reality as it is"

On hearing this one might feel that there is no need for meditation – but I assure you there is a need. Mere recognition of non-dual awareness will not bring one to complete liberation. Throughout lives from beginninglessness one has been a pathetic slave to referentiality enveloped in counterfeit premises and deluded habit. And when death arrives one’s destination is uncertain. One follows one’s perceptions and responds accordingly. This is the reason for meditation and continuously finding the presence of awareness to which one has been introduced. Kunkhyen Longchenpa said:
One may recognise the nature of Mind, but if one does not meditate and thus become accustomed to that nature, one will be like a baby left on a battlefield. One will be carried off by the foe – the ruthless mercenaries of your own referentiality.

>>19288671
>One may recognise the nature of Mind, but if one does not meditate and thus become accustomed to that nature, one will be like a baby left on a battlefield

What is the "proper" way to meditate according to Dzogchen?

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>>19288671
If one does not meditate, one will not gain certainty – but if you meditate, you will. But what is this certainty? If one endeavours in meditation with strength and joy, then signs will appear which will show that one has become familiar with remaining in the nature of Mind.

The tight clinging of dualistically experienced phenomena will gradually loosen. Obsession with happiness and suffering, hopes and fears – will dwindle. Tense dualistic attitudes will evaporate. Gold and gravel, victuals and vileness, deities and demons, righteousness and culpability, will be the same. One would be at a loss as to whether one would opt for the heavens or the hells. Until this point is reached, however, one takes dualism seriously – and therefore righteousness and culpability, the heavens and hells, pleasure and pain, actions and results – will still seem real.

How do we become accustomed to remaining in the nature of the Mind? When thoughts arise, let them arise. There is no need to regard thoughts as enemies. When thoughts arise, relax in their arising. If thought do not arise, do not create them by nervously speculating as to when they will arise. Simply rest in their absence. If concretely clearly defined thoughts suddenly appear during meditation, it is easy to distinguish them – but when inconsequential subtle movements occur, it is not easy to recognise these movements immediately. They are the undercurrent of ideational wandering – the thief of meditation. It is thus important to remain present. If one is constantly present in meditation and post-meditation – then whether eating, sleeping, walking, or sitting, that is it – that is the natural state.

This advice is my heart blood – so hold it closely and never separate from it. -Dudjom Rinpoche

>>19288678
Altough there are some instructions in this post.
I will give more detailed instructions later, hold on.

>>19288670
where did you get this picture of me from the future, when I go to the desert next month

>>19288284
Ah, Yaralava. Welcome

Bump so this thread doesn't die

>>19288695
Looking forward to those instructions.

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>tfw A got tired of casting pearls before swine

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I'm a little bit familiar with Chan, but has someone some instructions in the practice of Dzogchen?
The only info that I find is about the ngondro, isn't that just preparation for practice?

>>19289338
I *really* wanna get in on that CS workgroup wioth you guys, but I'd rather do a year and a day alone before getting into group activities. Right now I'm mostly interested in finding other serious occultists in my area without having to join the local incarnation of Darbyism

>>19289386
Come hang out in the /Omg/ thread

>>19289351
I have some Dzogchen in my library, alongside much more; I can't recommend much other than wiki and poking around some books because exactly how the various Tibetan schools parse the borders of practice is still unclear to me.

>>19289338
If this generic, entry-level Buddhist stuff counts as pearls then fuck me.

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>>19289747
Sounds like you could use some Conscious Chocolate

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>>19289338
That picture makes me cringe. Western 'tantra' is a joke and facade. I wish to take such people to a graveyard and introduce them to The Black Vajrayogini The Wrathful Dark Mother of the Void.

https://pastebin.com/iYDMyxL6

To encounter Dzogchen teachings one must have almost an infinitely good karma.
Think about all the beings in the world who are not able to encounter Dzogchen.
Merely in your garden there are already billions upon billions of insects.
This text is incredible precious. In fact it is 'cursed' or protected.
People who read it without compassion and gratitude will experience long involved nightmares.
People who read it without practicing will be born as animals.
People who use it for selfish gains will be reborn in hell.
People who read it and practice it without understanding will not make any progress.

Dzogchen is the only path that allows Buddhahood in one life time. (Al tough one must have accumulated positive karma for at least 3 billion lives to even encounter Dzogchen)
For the highest (Completion stage of Vajrayana) capability one month of sincere Dzogchen is enough to reach Buddhahood.
For the higher to middle-high (Generation stage of Vajrayana) 3 to 12 months is enough.
For the middle (Master of Mahayana) 3 to 12 years is enough.
The middle-low will reach Buddhahood at the moment of death. (Trainee of Mahayana) (after practicing Dzogchen for entire life)
The extremely low will reach Buddhahood in the Bardo. (Hinayana)
The lowest will either in next life or at least 3 to 12 lifes after that. (Non-Buddhists)
1 to 3 years of intense Dzogchen is already enough to reduce every obsession you have to near zero.

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>>19289793
>That picture makes me cringe. Western 'tantra' is a joke and facade. I wish to take such people to a graveyard and introduce them to The Black Vajrayogini The Wrathful Dark Mother of the Void.
>93
Pretty sure it's supposed to be joke.

Thanks for the link.

>Black Vajrayogini
Aka Krodhakali?

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>>19289793

Note that capability is not measured in what form of Buddhism you follow or what practices you actually do, but only measured in your understanding of emptiness.
If a Theravada or Zen Buddhist has an almost complete understanding of emptiness then such a person has the Highest (Vajrayana) capability.
A Tibetan Buddhist who has barely any understanding of emptiness can be measured as extremely low (Hinayana) capability.
A 'buddhist' who has no understanding of emptiness at all is seen as the lowest Non-Buddhist, even if that person worships Buddha and outwardly appears as a Buddhist.
So only you yourself can measure what capability you are. You have to really check up on your own motivation, which should always be non-selfish.
Its impossible to reach Buddhahood if you want Buddhahood for yourself only. Because 1 person is limited. And sentient beings are infinite and unlimited, Buddhahood is boundless like space.
A limited cause can not achieve an unlimited result. Therefore you need to take refuge in sentient beings as infinite as space, because only an unlimited cause can achieve an unlimited result.
Only sentient beings are the cause for Buddhahood. Therefore every sentient being needs to be protected like a precious diamond or a rare jewel.
Avelokitesvhara holds the wish fulfilling gem at his heart. (pic related) This wish fulfilling gem is both symbolic for all sentient beings and Buddhahood.

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>>19289793
>93

you can take me to the graveyard anytime bb

thanks for the pastebin

btw that pic was a joke, I got it from a community college power-point series

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>>19289793
>https://pastebin.com/iYDMyxL6

Ty for the link, much apreciated :D

>>19289812
>Therefore you need to take refuge in sentient beings as infinite as space

Do lesser Deities count as sentient beings in this context?

>If a Theravada or Zen Buddhist has an almost complete understanding of emptiness then such a person has the Highest (Vajrayana) capability

Do Dzogchen practitioners believe in the "Pure Land" at all? Or do they think that any such thing is just a Bardo experience?

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>>19289806
>Krodhakali
No Tröma Nakmo the black dakini.
But names are superficial. Both are equal.
Tröma Nakmo is principal yidam of Chod of offering up the body to demons.

>>19289793

A too long didn't read version:

0. Arouse compassion. Reflect on love. Reflect on impermanence. Feel joy and be grateful.
1. Sit crossed leg, or in Vajra posture. If you cant do either at least back straight.
2. Preffered to have eyes open and unmoved. Gaze forward. Not focusing on anything like gazing into space. Eyes closed is possible too, but open eyes is better.
3. Speech silent. Its better if even your breath barely makes a sound. (also no swalloing, burping, coughing or farting).
4. Breathing is natural, like it always is. Do not control the breath. Just breath naturally and automatically.
5. Do not move your body. If you feel pain somewhere do not move, do not change position. If you feel an itch, do not move.
6. Whatever thought arises directly look into it and liberate it into space like awareness.

The main difference here between meditation of the lower vehicles and Dzogchen. Is that the lower vehicles label thoughts as 'this' or 'that' after it has arisen, and on that basis begin to look for the medicine to remove that thought.
Dzogchen directly sees into the empty nature of a thought very moment it arises. In Dzogchen thoughts do not even have the time to develop into something.
Also Dzogchen has a secret part, but you can only learn that from a teacher in person, because it is extremely dangerous. Its mainly about working with fear of death and total destruction of ego. (vid related) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tvRbo8htKM

>>19289862
>Tröma Nakmo
>The Innermost Secret Khandro

Wow, I'd never heard of this specific godform.
>Thirteen claims of Rainbow Body

I'll, uh, keep that in mind.

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>>19289858
>Do lesser Deities count as sentient beings in this context?
It includes all beings of the three realms.
The formless realm.
The form realm.
And desire realm. (6 realms of samsara. humans, hungry ghosts, animals, hell beings, gods, and demi-gods)
However mostly focus on the desire realm, because the other 2 are too abstract and non-conceptual.
Deities are also too abstract.
You can start with your friends and family. That's what basically every text recommends.
Then work your way up to expand and include strangers, enemies, and animals from tiny insects to big animals. When you feel unconditional universal love for those groups you can begin to include hell beings, gods, and so on.

The Noble Kātyāyana said:

He eats his father’s flesh, while striking his own mother,
And cradles in his lap the enemy he killed;
The wife is gnawing at her husband’s bones.
saṃsāra is enough to make you laugh out loud!

Recognize that this bias, which currently causes us to see some people as our friends and others as our enemies, is a result of having fallen under the power of ignorance. Train your mind until you feel a benevolent attitude, like the one you have now for your present mother and father, for all beings, especially your ‘enemies’ and those who create obstacles for you.

The way in which we are currently attached to our friends and aggressive towards our enemies is a fault which comes from failing to examine the situation thoroughly. In reality, today’s so-called ‘enemies’ have, in the course of our many past lifetimes, been dear friends who have helped us enormously. And those whom we currently consider to be our ‘friends’ have been our enemies in past lifetimes, having caused us considerable harm.

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>>19289918
Cultivate compassion for beings by considering their miserable situation: all of them—throughout the three realms and six classes—grasp at their deluded perceptions, imagining them to be real, and wander endlessly in saṃsāra without finding any escape, like the turning of a wheel, or a rosary.

All beings, as limitless in number as space is vast, are our very own mothers and fathers who have shown us exactly the same kindness as our parents in our present lifetime. So that these parents of ours may remain no longer in their pitiful state, and instead attain enlightenment, finding comfort and ease in the luminosity and all-pervading space of the true nature of their minds, we should train our minds by means of the four immeasurables.

Any practice you do from the lowest to the highest. If it does not include compassion then your are not practicing Dharma. No matter how profound your practice, without unselfish love its just an ordinary practice. This is how you should always think.

Buddha Shakyamuni did not achieve Buddhahood for himself. He wanted Buddhahood to help sentient beings. Without that motivation he would never have become Buddha.
Without this motivation doing Dzogchen is not even possible and if you did it would not work for you and be useless.

>>19289858
>Do Dzogchen practitioners believe in the "Pure Land" at all?
Yes. The pure land is the present moment. Since all experiences are mind. Mind is emptiness. and emptiness is intrinsically pure. All appearances are the perfect display of the yidam. Everything is the mandala of the yidam. The yidam sits in the center of a palace of great bliss.
Also yes. Everything is Bardo. There are 3 Bardos. The bardo of living (Nirmanakaya). The bardo of in between(Sambhokaya) and the absolute bardo(Dharmakaya)

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>>19289889
https://pastebin.com/EyNASdjQ

This text is the preliminary for both Troma Nakmo, Vajrakilaya, and Dzogchen.
Some even claim that this preliminary is more than enough to achieve Rainbow Body.
They(Nyingma) say that the preliminary is in fact the real Dzogchen. And Rainbow Body obtained from the preliminary is merely a nice bonus.
In the Dudjom Tersar treasure it is said. The preleminary path to Dzogchen is very profound. Dzogchen meditation itself is not so important.
So start doing your 100 thousand prostrations ;) Wich is part of the preliminary. (vid related)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W84unuflGE8

>>19290025
that pastebin is gold, thank you

>>19290025
>So start doing your 100 thousand prostrations ;) Wich is part of the preliminary. (vid related)
Aye. Was taking a phone call. Will do.

>>19289770
Definitely could use some conscious chocolate, sounds tasty. I was going to greentext all of the generic stuff that A has said but that's a waste of time. It's a bit sad to see people like you and ape being slack-jawed in the face of this stuff. I was thinking Ape was way farther along the path. Oh well. The ironic arrogance of Tibetan Buddhism knows no bounds. They take simple concepts and shroud them in grandiose descriptions and then they look down on the people from whom they received the simple concepts. The Buddha gave you water, and instead of drinking it, you, caught up in your pretentious conceit, decide to fag it up by putting the water in a box and then you sell boxed water for 7 dollars per 500ml because you know some hipster is going to buy it. Boring. Why don't you burn all your books and do 100k prostrations 18 times in your life?

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>>19290056
Yes. It more or less outlines the entire path to Buddhahood from the complete beginning(Hinayana) to end(Dzogchen).

If I remember correctly it says somewhere:
"Now after countless lives of wandering in samsara you have finally found this text which is like valuable treasure. So why would you waste such a treasure by not practising?"

I will go back into retreat after 2 days.
Personally I can advice you all to start sleeping sitting up.
Sleeping while sitting cross legged has improved my meditation in a very short time and actually gives me more energy.

In the beginning its extremely hard to do and after 2 or 3 hours you will probably lay down. Thats ok. Lay down when you need to, but when you lay down. Keep your back straight and lay on your side. (Avoid fetus position at all costs and dont lay on your belly) Just try again next night. Make yourself comfortable ad then simply meditate sitting up until you fall asleep.
It will take about a month and half for it to work properly, but dont give up.
After you manage you can practically sleep anywhere, be more energized, and have better posture during daytime.
But most important of all is that your meditation especially resting in the nature of mind will become easyer and easyer.
When you sleep sitting cross legged it will also be easyer to remain lucid in dreams and after some time the difference between waking reality and dreaming reality will start to erode and fade away into one continues experience. Seeing phenomena as creative illusionary will be easyer and attachments to emotions will be reduce too.
Before go to sleep and after you have woken up recite the root mantra of your yidam. Then the first and last thing you do in your day will be connecting with the yidam.

Another great tip is to write like 3 pages full for each of the OM, AH, A, HUNG, and BAM Tibetan syllables.
This will greatly help with visualisation.

>>19290194
Why don't you demonstrate your attainment by showing us all the revealed nature of your beliefs instead of shitting on others for finding interest in something

>>19288470
where did you get those pics?

>>19290194
>I show interest in something on 4chan
>someone acts like a piece of shit about it

every fucking time

>>19290446
David Chaim Smith

>>19290386
>>19290469
I'm not one to cast pearls before swine :^)

>>19290386
>butthurt Tibetan detected

What's really funny for an atheist like myself is to see all these so-called intelligent and discerning people completely lose their mind when the religious dogma being spewed at them is from Asia.

If this were some Druze or some Franciscan monk in here spouting off poem after poem about Jesus and the divine feelings they get from their dogma it would be booed and insulted and pruned in a heartbeat.

But you get the same dogmatic shit spewed with crazy pictures and silly names and 4chan goes
>ooooh such mystic
>how enlightenment
>let us eat from your ass while you vomit this fairytale at us

>>19290485
You're gay. Any humble, authentic mystic would listen to divine poetry regardless of what tradition it comes from. I get tears from reading some of Rumi's poetry about love. Likewise with some Christian mystics. I also read a lot of Hindu and Buddhist stuff as well.

Atheist normie get out reee

>>19290502
>Any humble, authentic mystic
You mean any idiot who thinks speaking in nonsense makes them better than other people. Mysticism is for people who can't feel good about themselves in a normal way - through friends and success and social standing. Instead they abandon actual methods of bettering yourself and invest in fairytales. It's like the uber-nerd who looks down on people because they don't know the full and intricate history of Startrek Enterprise or whatever.

>Likewise with some Christian mystics.
Absolute bullshit. /x/ NEVER respects or listens to the Chrisitnas on the board.

They shouldn't, but they shouldn't listen to any of the religious nuts on the board. Including the Tibetan ones.

>Atheist normie get out reee
exactly

>>19290520
>im a complete retard, the post
every time

>>19290547
>can't argue anything said
>better resort to calling them retarded

>>19288138
No prob

I can help with transliteration if you want, and i can provide with more manuscripts relating to said subject.
I collect old manuscripts & I've got a couple more relating to this.

>>19290564
i dont argue with retards, sorry. in your post, you gave a wonderful definition of "mystic" which showed me that you are retarded. for that reason, im not going to argue with you. im also not going to argue with you because you have nothing to say or add that's worth acknowledging. let me translate that into words youd understand:
>HURR DURR ATHEISM GOOD HURRRRR

>>19290587
>HUURRRRRR NOT ARGUING JUST GIVING
ARGUMENTS

So not only are you stupid and have absolutely nothing in your life but memorizing Tibetan Lord of the Rings fiction, you are a complete coward as well.

Fair enougyh. You can't argue because you know your knowledge is weak and based on lies. You won't argue because you fear how stupid it would make you look. You won't argue because you know you are wrong and want to continue thinking your lies ad fictions will protect you.

That's cool. I can dig self-delusion. Just don't expect me to not laugh at you.

>>19290547
Dude he destroyed you

>>19290701
Not even trying to, I just find this mental disconnect hilarious. Like if 4chan was primarily Asian based you would see /x/ taking very seriously "Salvation" posts and "How do I get into Heaven?" or "Redpill me on the Hadith" and would be insulting and trying to shoo away all the crazy Buddhists and their indoctrinating, nihilistic tactics that were complete fabrications by a prince who wanted lower classes to be satisfied with serving the elites.

>Wanna post about Green Tara meditation
>Instead come back to a shitfest

gonna post it anyway if you're interested

http://www.losangsamten.com/files/green_tara_1.pdf

>>19290752
>call a dogmatic faith what it is
>suddenly the thread is a shitfest

The shit already happened. I'm here to wipe /x/'s ass so it stops stinking.

>>19290785
What do you think is so dogmatic about Dzogchen anon? I could see one considering it dogmatic in how focused on it's principles it is, but it is never the sort of thing that can be proselytized

>>19284759

LOL! This one is good looking icon.

It's a warning from "underworld" to have babies so you can be reborn and to do that you must behead your ego.

That beast is a sexy woman ;)

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A brief Manjushri mantra to help you all cultivate inner wisdom and not be so extra

http://www.losangsamten.com/files/manjushri.pdf

>>19290808
>That beast is a sexy woman ;)
I have bad news for you

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>>19290752
>Wanna post about Green Tara meditation
Interestingly, Kulavadhuta's re-syncretizing is rooted in Blue Tara.

The idea is that Apara and Ekajati are self-same.

>>19287442

>Instead you should worship Vajrakilaya. (pic related)

LOL WHAT?! HA! NOOO! what is included in that pic is a female demon that is right before ovulation and it hasn't been fucked in 3 months, so she is ready to devour anything her way and only way to calm her down is to give her good fucking.

This diety is female of underworld and you should only worship it if you need to ground and water your current state to stabilize you in the center, on the other hand it's a very cool looking pic, post more!

>>19290797
How about this post?
>>19288671
>Dudjom Rinpoche on the (inferior) systems of Hinayana, Mahayana, and Vajrayana:

This is nothing but assertions from some old Asian dude, and we're supposed to think there's deep reasoning going on. Why don't you tell me what ISN'T dogmatic about what that post says.

>>19290797
>but it is never the sort of thing that can be proselytized
Are you new to /x/? Every other thread is filled with people telling others the true way to enlightenment and how to be no-mind and how to achieve enlightened oneness. It's sickening, as bad as the Christian tripfags used to be.

>>19290851
/x/ is full of sad and delusional people

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>>19290828
In that, they both have the ultimate ability to Subjugate duality?

>>19290829
>Yidam deity
>demon

try again buddy

>>19290851
That post is describing what I guess to you is the the experiential opinion of someone advanced in a craft. It's like someone saying that a particular technique in woodworking is better. It's not exactly "deep reasoning" but it is experiential awareness

>>19290857
then why are you here?

>>19290860
So nothing. Nothing is that post is not dogmatic.

>>19290866
Would you say that a teacher is being "dogmatic" when they correct something you are doing wrong?

>>19290869
If they give no reasoning other than "This is my opinion?"

Absolutely.

>friendly reminder to praise the thousand arm avalokiteśvara for gift of the patience to endure /x/.

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>>19290860
Therapeutical. To laugh my ass off so I get rid of my anal cancer.

>>19290871
But he does give his reasoning anon right there in the quote

the other systems engage in duality and superfluous intellectualizing. I can't really say if I agree with him or not but given what he knows I believe his opinion to be valid for him

>>19290877
>anal cancer

http://www.losangsamten.com/files/medicine_prayers.pdf

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>>19290860
>In that, they both have the ultimate ability to Subjugate duality?
I refuse to speculate on the intent of a Guru I'm not under while being so ignorant of Tibetan systems.

>Forgot my devotional godform

>friendly reminder that passive aggression is a recourse for the weak and ineffectual - those that know they can change nothing and so can only get mad at those with power

>>19290883
>But he does give his reasoning anon right there in the quote
>the other systems engage in duality and superfluous intellectualizing.

No, he makes a bunch of baseless claims about them. Quote the part with reason. Try.

>I believe his opinion to be valid for him
Notice how you said "I believe?" Where does he say that? Where does he say "my opinion is" or "I think?" No, he just claims as dogmatic truth "This is what is. They are doing it wrong. Trust me, I've been doing it wrong a lot longer than they have."

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>>19290884
That's fair. This thread is reminding me of when I used to attend Sanghas with Losang Samten up in Philly and he would lead us through beautiful Green Tara visualizations

>>19290892
> And they have obscured wisdom, which is naturally present, by their efforts in respect to that which is free from effort and free from needing to be accomplished

wisdom arises spontaneously though the removal of mind-> these traditions have fucked that up because they require you to use too much mind -> thus they not worth your time

again I can't say of I agree with him or not but his argument is very clear

>>19290905
>in Philly
>Philly
Oh fug. We may have overlapping circles.

>>19290905
>And they have obscured wisdom, which is naturally present, by their efforts in respect to that which is free from effort and free from needing to be accomplished
Yes. This is a baseless accusation.
>wisdom arises spontaneously though the removal of mind
This is dogma. Why should I believe this?
>these traditions have fucked that up because they require you to use too much mind
Those traditions say they use exactly enough mind. Who are you to dogmatically claim otherwise? You don't even put silly words in front of your name.

Here, here's another long-time practicioner with an experienced eye toward Buddhism. Do you accept his valid opinion on the efficacy of this practice?

https://bible.org/article/buddhism

>>19290910
That would not surprise me a bit.
Random question: Why does the document "Sabbatic Kabbalah of the Cooked Path" in the Mega describe the first letter as Ayin not Aleph? Is that a blind or what?

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If tibetans are so smart how come they live in the middle age and their country got pwnd by gommunist chinks?

>>19290944
Because their God is a soon-to-be-senile old man and their prophet was kidnapped and never given back.

>>19290931
Why don't you attempt to at least google this dude and his life so you can have some vague context for what he's talking about?
>This is a baseless accusation
not from where hes sitting
>This is dogma.
Sure. Have you tried it?

>Do you accept his valid opinion
He sure reminds me of my Catholic School world religion teacher who tried *very* hard to fit Buddhist teachings into his Catholicism with the "Buddhism isn't is a religion it's a philosophy" argument. That argument is true for some, but not even most, Buddhists

>>19290957
That sounds like xtianity

>>19290968
>argument from authority
If what he says is correct, it doesn't matter what his life is like.

>not from where hes sitting
Once again (I know this is hard for you) opinion stated as fact is dogmatic, and still just opinion.

>Have you tried it?
Have you accepted Jesus into your heart as your Lord and Savior? I mean REALLY accepted it? Because you'd know He is the only way if you had.

>tried *very* hard to fit Buddhist teachings into his Catholicism with the "Buddhism isn't is a religion it's a philosophy" argument
>confirmed for not even reading

>>19290969
Of course it does. They're both nonsensical dogmas of "God said this, so that's the way it is," except in Tibetan Buddhism God reincarnates so it's OK when the man they call God dies. In Catholicism and Islam they had to say God speaks through a man and Protestants went so far as to say everyone can create their own dogma.

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>>19290999
Y'know you can fuckpost at me, the curious, Guruji, w/e, but when you attack the Dharma with provable horseshit I gotta reply.

>the man they call God
>incarnations of Avalokitesvara
Avalokitesvara isn't remotely the highest emanation of Godhead in any of these systems, Avalokitesvara is a Bodhisattva.

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>>19290999
>https://bible.org/article/buddhism
>After a comparative study, I came to realize Buddha was a great
teacher who lived a noble life, but Christ is the unique revelation
of God who is to be worshipped as our eternal Lord and Savior.

Cucks like this are a dime a dozen anon. I'm beginning to think that you're a Christ fag pretending to be an Atheist

>Have you accepted Jesus into your heart as your Lord and Savior?
Yes
>I mean REALLY accepted it?
Beyond anything I thought was real at the time
>Because you'd know He is the only way if you had.
but I did and he wasn't

>>19290823

1000% that's a woman in hysteria

>>19291033
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhairava

>>19290860

lol, you pretend to be a GURU but you're so one sided..

>>19291015
So he's Pope. Just makes the label of dogma more apt. Doesn't fucking change the fact that you've been slurping this dude's ass like it dribbles chocolate tantra and now you want to seem all manly again.

>>19291029
>Cucks like this are a dime a dozen anon
He has an experiential opinion developed after many years of study. It's a valid opinion that you said you would consider.

>Yes
Liar. If you had, you would drop this evil demon Buddha and follow the way to Christ.
>but I did and he wasn't
And if I told you that I had truly looked into and practiced Buddhist paths and found them all to be dogmatic and lacking, would you accept that answer?

So why should I accept yours?

It's all the same subjective idiocy and it's pathetic how easily /x/ drops its critical eye to Buddhism because it has pretty pictures and funny words.

>>19291043

>Bhairava (Sanskrit, "Terrible, Frightful") is a Hindu deity, a fierce manifestation of Shiva associated with annihilation.

precisely! a woman that hasn't been fucked in a while

>>19291050
>It's a valid opinion that you said you would consider

No it isn't, he's no longer a practicing Buddhist
>Liar
That's not how faith works anon, even the most zealous have to contend with doubt. That's an established part of every religion where faith is a backbone.
>And if I told you that I had truly looked into and practiced Buddhist paths and found them all to be dogmatic and lacking, would you accept that answer?

many of the Buddhist paths I have looked into have been both of those things, but it's a very multifaceted belief system with an enormous amount of philosophical and spiritual diversity.

>So why should I accept yours?
you shouldn't, you should do the work and find your own truth
>>19291044
Where have I ever claimed any sort of authority? I don't have any students
>>19291059
try fucking it in a graveyard and report back to us

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In the last chapter of The kiss of the yogini, the author recalls some stories from a tantrika he knew and it says something about a tantrik guru who used a image of Bhairava as a carpet on his door then he fell ill and died because that's blasphemy and Bhairava "killed him"

Then people here are insulting Bhairava, calling it evil, comparing it with a woman who didn't got the D, etc yet nothing happens.

Really jogges the nogges

>>19291065
>That's an established part of every religion where faith is a backbone.
I'm glad you agree its all dogmatic idiocy.

>>19291074
>all religions r tha same

“Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them.”

Don't knock what you don' t try anon

>>19291073
>Really jogges the nogges
>Its indirect and slow. Like a parasite. You wont even notice you have been infected.
And its mostly mental.

>>19291050
I hate having to defend the Gelug school but here we are.

While the office is a potent symbol of the unified school structure, the office is formally that of Gelug head and head of state, chosen as the latter due to internal and external political pressures.

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>>19291087
>think about a girl
>penis gets hard
>oh noes! There 's an evil spirit in my house and he took posession of my mind!
/x/ pls

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>>19290938
Disregard this I suck cocks it wasn't a blind it was a typo.
>>19291097
>didn't read the thread

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If all the things y'all talking about are real why don't they appear in the Bible?

Fags: 0
God: 1

>>19291065

are you getting triggered?

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>this thread
Y'all niggas need some sweet dakini pussy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6t6NcOFvt0

>Linga bhairavi

>>19291106
They aren't though, just like the bible

>>19291157
>when you realize that with very long hard you don't need clothes cuz you can turn the hair into clothes
Nice

>>19291204
*long hair

>>19291106
>implying

>>19291087
>Don't knock what you don' t try
>still foolishly thinking this wasn't practiced and rejected
>still hypocritically ignoring the GodKings barking about how everyone else is wrong
>still not REALLY trying to accept Jesus into his life

>>19291094
You hate being called out as the pussy you are. And you seem oblivious to the fact that a Pope is a Pope no matter what silly names and convoluted bureaucracies you put around it.

so wait, is an atheist, or a generic christfag, or a christfag RPing as an atheist? im confused. the good news is that extremely ignorant atheists are extremely proud and loudmouthed, so when it comes time to round them up and send them to the labor camps, it will be so easy to do so. same with the shitty christfags. it's not like either of those groups of people contribute anything of worth so their "disappearance" won't be missed or felt. gg faggots

>>19292067
What a surprise. A no-mind baldie has problems using his mind. Good thing he can fall back on fanatical declarations of genocide. That'll prove how unlike other religions his precious Buddhism is.

>>19292187
good argument

>>19292341
Was that you presenting an argument? You think that post had a point to argue against? Let me laugh harder.

>>19292395
ive been baiting this whole time and youve fallen for it. keep laughing, homo.

>>19292420
The only thing people are falling over round here is bronze age navel gazing.

>>19287442
> Instead you should worship Vajrakilaya.
How?

>>19292775
Ratna Lingpa's Phurba Yangsang Lamé (Wyl. yang gsang bla med).
Jikmé Lingpa's Gyüluk Phurba (Wyl. rgyud lugs phur pa).
The Longchen Nyingtik practice of "Overpowering the Forces Of Mara" (phur pa bdud dpung zil gnon).
Yang Nying Pudri, The Razor of the Innermost Essence.
The Essential Daily Practice of Vajrakilaya by Kyabjé Dudjom Rinpoche.
The Wisdom Mind Practice of ‘One Phurba’, a terma of Tertön Sogyal
The Ultimate Practice of Vajrakilaya, a terma of Dudjom Lingpa;
Short Meditation Practice of Vajrakilaya by Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö.

Then, if my memory doesn't fail me, the basics lower in the Vajra praxes is "Black Razor Tantra" which was pretty nifty when I went through it.

>>19292805
Thank you Ape

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So much smell of balls and sweaten beard here

This thread needs more Devi

>>19284759
Just file it under "do not fuck with" and move on

>>19287442
>Crushes all to dust
You sound like a mudslime.

Looks like some fat kid who didn't get puss puss from mum for birthday ;/

>>19287627

Is the Buddha at the top screwing a chick?

>>19296023

>>19296023
Yes

>>19287442
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsEqI1NZA-E

Chant this,you got it all wrong Lord shiva sent Kalbhairav as watch guard of universe,its his duty to see to it that one who is infested with greed and lust,will get to destiny.

If you praise him,he might just spare you a bit of wrath.

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>>19292775
By being a good human being.
We already have too many buddhists, but not enough good people.

>>19296023
"(Primordial) Buddha" is both the man(Samanthabhadra) and the woman(Samanthabhadri). Its one whole being, one entitity. When meditating on yidams in yab-yum you do not identify as male or female, but as either both at same time or neither.

The symbolism is very profound.
The man represents the six sense organs. The woman the six sense contents.
Their union represents the truth of co-interdepensent arising. (That all experiences arise out of emptiness and that all things have no inherent essence)
In relation to Vajrakilaya. The penis looks like a dagger that penetrates into the vagina of the Dharmakaya(Absolute truth of emptiness)
Just as the dagger of Vajrakilaya penetrates ego-clinging into non-self.
The man is thus the appearence or skillful means aspect of awareness.
The women the empty aspect of awareness.
Spontanious instant self-arising Awareness itself is the inseperable union of man and women. (Emptiness as bliss and bliss as emptiness).
In one of the Tantras the man says to the woman:
"All men posses my form and all women posses your form, yet at the same time your form is in me and my form is in you
I am the all creating king, the father of all beings and the source of every phenomena."
In another Tantra the woman says:
"I am the great mother of all beings, the source of all, who watches their lives and deaths.

"The source" here does not refer to some almighty god like in Christanity or Hinduism. But to your own nature of mind. To your own awareness. Which is empty and devoid of being something.
And because its empty it allows to potentiality for everyhing. Because its open and impartial it allows the room for all infinite manifestations and experiences.
Personally I like to call awareness: "The complete fullness or richness of Great emptiness"
Since the sense media are empty, there is nothing to go after, and nothing to run away from

>>19297000
>We already have too many buddhists, but not enough good people.

You can't be Buddhist and a good person.

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>>19297000
Sleeping in lotus has gone better than expected and I woke up easier than I have the rest of the week.

How does one balance Compassion for All Things with the attachment-rending practice of solitude?

I imagine this would be easier if I, too, were imbued with the power of a thousand arms.

>>19297027
Or more precisely:

>>19288467
^This all hits me in all the right feels. But then, what next? An (if possible) increase in random/stranger charity to pick up the slack of increased renunciation? Just about everything that comes to mind runs the risk of pride, etc., so does it become a matter of Wisdom, intuition, and sincere cost/benefit awareness?

>>19297027
>Sleeping in lotus

have you tried sleeping in the slav squat position yet?

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>>19297027
>Sleeping in lotus has gone better than expected.
Great! Very nice
Its also good to think before you go to sleep "I will wake up". and when you wake up in the morning you think "Now I am dreaming". This will screw up the dualistic perceptions and allows to better understand non-duality. And it will help roaming the Bardo after you die. Who knows, maybe you will die tomorrow or in a few hours...impermanence after all.

>does it become a matter of Wisdom intuition?
Pretty much. There is no right or correct answer.
You have to find this out for yourself.
Buddhism has no (absolute) rules, like other religions.
While all the texts say be compassionate. What compassion actually is, it has never been explained properly.
This is because awareness is responsive to every unique situation. Everything is relative, so it depends on the situation. (present moment)
The only thing that is universally agreed on is that there should be no attachment.
The Tantras go so far as to say that murdering somebody without attachment is still compassion. Saving somebody from sickness with attachment is aggression.
After all sentient beings do not exist. So there is no duality of the object of compassion. Therefore love can be infinite and open.
In Dzogchen practice you actually do "the first thing that comes to mind" without hesitation. Because awareness is inherently compassionate. And in the nature of mind, wrong and right do not exist at all

Many of the Mahasiddhas had very violent and wrathful behavior, but there are also many great masters who have extremely strict morality

In general its agreed upon that as long as you are not a Mahasiddha or accomplished Dzogchenpa you take the moralities serious. So long as you are under dualistic influences you are allowed to belief Buddha really exists and that Liberation is actually possible

Milarepa said "When you approach the end of Dharma do not let go of your devotion. Make sure that your practice endures as long as you do."

I read a book where the author said that Buddhist tantrism predates Hindu tantrism. Is that the case?

>>19297194
Oh hey a chance to flex my absent minded scholarship.

We don't know.

The earliest images of the Bodhisattvas and sculptures of scenes from the Tripitaka include illustrations from the story of Vangisa the Skulll Tapper. In this tale, a Hindi master who has trained the ability to "tap skull" to determine where/who the individual in question reincarnated and went to the Buddha who presented him with the skull of an Arhant. Vangisa could not determine any reincarnation.

Puzzled, Vangisa became a disciple, and attained on body meditations.

Vangisa was probably a member of the "Kapalika" (Skull Bearers) sect though the story predates the first known legal references to Kapalikas.

In terms of historicity, and not spiritual emergence, they probably rose together at all steps of the process, from Buddha to the Pala Kingdom's debates.

>>19297206
Yeah I know about the story of Vangisa. And I know a bit about the Kapalikas. Aren't Kapalikas sort of alluded to in passing in the Vedas? And would the Kapalikas count as tantric?

>>19297227
>sort of
I mean that interpretation's certainly on the table...I just dunno if I'd bet the farm on it.

>would they
I know of no other Indic sect which requires the ritual use of skulls. A better designation would probably be "prototantrik" unless we unearth some Agamic material indicating otherwise.

The point is that Buddhism and "Tantra" writ large have probably been intertwined longer than most people think.

>>19297237
Don't the buddhist tantras predate hindu tantras by a few centuries? I can understand that they've become intertwined over time, yeah. I find it interesting that in the buddhist tantras, the female aspect is the passive one (prajna), while in the hindu tantras, it is the active one (shakti). why do you think that happened?

>>19297239
>Don't the buddhist tantras predate hindu tantras by a few centuries
Linguistic evidence indicates the Agamas arose well before they were written down and preserved by otherwise Vedic recitation techniques. Exactly how old they were is up for debate.

Matsyendranath, a progenitor of the Natha and Kaula sects didn't attain out of the aethyrs. He was late 800/early 900.

Matrikabhedatantra, with it's tantric alchemy, is dated to mid 700/early 800. Gopala I assumed rulership in 750.

>while in the hindu tantras, it is the active one (shakti)
This is a rather facile interpretation of UTK. Maybe back off the Woodruff commentaries a bit. Shakti may well be the power by which Shiva manifests, but also Shakti is the "object" portion of the subject/object distinction. Her power is only effulgent inside of the active projected inquiry of the subject. See Paratrisika.

>>19297272
Good stuff. Do you know of any books that talk about those pala debates you mentioned? Google's not quite saying much.
>Maybe back off the Woodruff commentaries a bit
I was actually just repeating what the book I just read said (it's by anagarika govinda so...dunno how reliable the guy is). I'm about to start reading Woodroffe's Principles of Tantra (even though I've read a bunch of tantras already). Is there anything I should be aware of?

>>19297287
I really wish I had more sources.
AFAIK it's one of those >ywn things. Historical footnotes. I'm sure there's something nice and solid in the excellently preserved Tibetan histories but where to even being that search is beyond me. In the West the debates themselves are sorta historical footnotes to an otherwise interesting polity.

Sanderson, Alexis. "The Śaiva Age: The Rise and Dominance of Śaivism during the Early Medieval Period." In: Genesis and Development of Tantrism,edited by Shingo Einoo. Tokyo: Institute of Oriental Culture, University of Tokyo, 2009. Institute of Oriental Culture Special Series, 23

>>19287582
>lol

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>>19287442
If Bhairava is a demon why is it the official deity of Nepal?

>>19297304
Nice pic of Vajrabhairava.

Newar Buddhism sits as a mediator between Saivism and Tibetan schools.

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>>19288539
>bahahahahaha thats what I thought.

tfw when Buddhist then found Vajrayana (Tantric) Buddhism then find out they are just copying Hinduism Tantric practices and those are the most legit on the planet; u mad?

Hey Im Buddhist and Hindu so Im being objective bruh.

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>>19287735
Some worship him as the highest manifestation of Shiva.

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>>19288201

>>19288298
Yeah thats PPV tier for folks like us.

>>19297272
Not him but I'm about to start Serpent Power and then Shakti and Shakta by that dude. Is he legit or does his Theosophical background colour his interpretation/percetion?

>>19288306
Buddhism talking shit about Hinduism. Happens in all religions. Of course another religion is going to say their deity is better lol.

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>>19288355
What do you think of Mahamudra?

After practicing it for a decade :).

>tfw have a backward swastika tattoo over my heart.

>>19288119
What book is that?

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>>19297178
To add Khyentse Rinpoche once said:

"Most of the suffering in the world comes from people who are self-righteous and create a duality of us versus them. I am right and you are wrong."

Looking at Christianity and Islam, Capitalism and Communism, Hitler and Stalin, North-Korea and South Korea, Liberals and Republicans, West and East, Humans and animals.

This statement seems to be quite true. Once people become biased towards one thing dualistic tendencies evolve and hatred, fear, wars, and so on spread around.

The Sutras on Sex by the Mahasiddha Drukpa Kunley are the very embodiment of non-duality:

"
I take refuge in the vagina of a woman who is the source of Buddhas

I am happy that I am a free Yogi.
So I grow more and more into my inner happiness.
I can have sex with many women,
because I help them to go the path of enlightenment.
Outwardly I'm a fool
and inwardly I live with a clear spiritual system.
Outwardly, I enjoy wine, women and song.
And inwardly I work for the benefit of all beings.
Outwardly, I live for my pleasure
and inwardly I do everything in the right moment.
Outwardly I am a ragged beggar
and inwardly a blissful Buddha.
I practice the path of self-discipline. I meditate every day.
I go the way of embracing love. I work as a mother and father of all beings.
I do the yidam yoga. I visualize myself as a Buddha in the cosmic unity.
I read the books of all religions and practice all at the right moment.
The life is my teacher and my inner wisdom is my guide.
" - Drukpa Kunley

>>19297381
Mahamudra is the Kagyu version of Nyingma Dzogchen. Its basically 90% the same. Mainly the terminology is different.
Many masters have both received instructions in Dzogchen and Mahamudra including my teacher and his teacher.

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>>19288489
>There are many texts on science, crafts, medicine, and religion; all methods for gaining understanding, yet to know many things is to ruin the pure simplicity of your mind. It might be excellent to be learned, but whatever we are attached to locks us up in a self-made prison. To amass a multitude of texts, books, notes, and scriptures will only burden you and slow you down, giving no benefit. You are merely fooling yourself.
>To abandon studying and to limit your knowledge is my advice from the heart.

Maybe. Kind of. No. Debatable. Thats stupid.

You say give up studying scriptures but in my opinion as someone who follows Nyingma tradition who then found Trika Saivism from that I feel the best way to meditate IMO is to study the Bhairava Tantras cause its deeper than my foolish mind thinking I'm wise practicing such basic shit aka Dzogchen. I assure you reading the nondual tantras does not slow me down. Currently reading the Tantraloka; you think I should put it down? lol nonsense. Bucket list reading right here and you say nah right?

>>19297526
>cause its deeper than my foolish mind thinking I'm wise practicing such basic shit aka Dzogchen
Thank you! That's one of the things that pisses me off about a lot of tibetan buddhist stuff. They're so grandiose and ooooh this practice is the deepest, most sublime practice, it will liberate all beings in the fifty five directions...and it's entry level shit that's basically been the staples of buddhist practice since long before tibetan buddhism even existed.
>Currently reading the Tantraloka; you think I should put it down?
According to this guy, you should burn it.

>>19297526
>>19297539
Samefag

>>19297552
>there cant possibly be two people that think this internet guru is full of shit, must be samefagging
youre gay

>>19297526
>Trika Saivism
>Tantraloka

More like UTK but whatever.

You didn't buy that shit because of me, did you? I mean I scanned it so people wouldn't have to shell out the cash.

>>19297559
>>19297552
Samefag

>>19297559
More like the post count didn't go up and there's no one higher up in the thread making similar assertions.

>>19297575
>there's no one higher up in the thread making similar assertions
factually untrue. still not that guy, i wish i had a hard copy of tantraloka but i dont...
...because i burned it and became a gay tibetan.

Like, y'all realize that while you're here holding a 1200 year ethnodoctrinal grudge, the systems acknowledge each other's power to Liberate and many of practitioners from each side are finding more common ground than not?

Think about it. Abhinava's criticisms of Buddhism may well hold water, insomuch as he was trained in his time and place in history. But he had a keen critical mind; he was open minded as well as a literal fucking genius. Do you parrot his arguments really think he wouldn't want his students to take a SECOND LOOK given a thousand years of refinement? Abhinava was dead before Kalachakra was compiled.

We have MORE THAN ENOUGH fundamentalism in the West. And MORE THAN ENOUGH fundamentalism in the subcontinent. Do you REALLY wanna contaminate the Left Hand Path with arbitrary dogma? You don't think that's gonna have some unpleasant karmic resonances?

>>19297604
Care to link me?

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>karmic resonances
Doesn't exists lol

>>19297626
In my library at /omg/.

>>19297625
Anyway that whole rant is a preamble to this:
https://youtu.be/FSvhV9OAils

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>>19297472
>I read the books of all religions

This is for (You) whoever said drop all scriptures. This is a Mahasiddha saying this!

>>19297552
nope

>>19297568
No I don't buy all books Trika cause of you cause I have no idea who you are.

>>19297604
Cost me $500. You can get the Tantrasara for a lot cheaper; its like the cliff notes.

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>>19297526
In the words of Noble Milarepa:

~~~
Accustomed long to meditating on the secret whispered truths,
I have forgotten all that is said in written or printed books.
Accustomed long to studying, by myself, my own experiences,
I have forgotten the need to seek the opinions of friends and brethren.
I have forgotten the way to trace the roots of verbs, and the
sources of words and phrases.
You, oh learned scholars, may trace out these things in your books

Without instruction, a load of books is but a burden;
Except for lies and boasting what good can they ever do?

Those who think only of worldly goals are content with studying a few religious books. They rejoice in their own success and in the failure of others. In the name of religion, they amass as much wealth and fame as they can. They take holy names and put on yellow robes. I turn away from them and always will. But other devotees, if their minds and practice have not been so corrupted, are in agreement with me, no matter what robes they wear, and I cannot turn my back on them. I shun only those who do not follow the essence of the Dharma.

When you see the nature of mind directly, you will see all that the 84000 scriptures teach in a single instant.
~~~

The real Dharma does not exist in books, but in your heart.
The Buddha has never told anyone what to do, but only gave advice.
I personally don't care what you do. Its your life, do whatever you think seems right.
I simply share the things of great masters of the past. If its beneficial too you, accept it. If not, reject and discard it. I do not care, I am not attached to praise and blame. In any case I will go back to the retreat hut today after my good kind friend finished dinner.
Look for the essence of mind, that is meaningful. You have the opportunity right now.

>>19297343
I read it and liked it. Reading the actual sutras is always better than some Westerners interpretation.

>>19297667
>I have no idea who you are.
Resident librarian who scanned that edition of Tantraloka.

Got the Yorke Microfilms of the Warburg Collection too.

>>19284759
i thought that was Khali?

>>19297681
>The real Dharma does not exist in books, but in your heart.

>pop quiz hot shot!

ok right quick I got to explain I found Hinduism through Buddhism but through studying the non dual tantras I put it together like a puzzle what its all about. You talk all wise but lets even see if you know your own words that you are saying.

Ok of what I quoted from you tell me what they mean when they say heart, what are they referring to?

>>19297720
Mate, if you're the one claiming Abhinava's Uttara Kaula Trika, do you care to address this:
>>19297625

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>>19297698
IMO as a follower of both they are literally the same. Just if you feel like picturing it at the time masculine or feminine to be honest IMO.

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I make my last post soon and then leave again. I go back to retreat hut after my good kind friend finished dinner.
I haven't heard music for the past 4 months or so.
Yesterday I heard this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7x7t9lrE4Q
It sounds so amazing. And today I heard this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vdg83d6zvk
So beautiful.

>>19297646
I actually used to read a lot of Jain scriptures and also scriptures of Coptic Orthodox Christianity.
But you are missing the point. To be against all studying is wrong. To be only for studying is also wrong. One should be non-attached and reduce clinging.
The point is that if you study too much you become attached and biased by forming dualistic tendencies and start debating about philosophies instead of looking into the nature of mind (wich is what scholars usually do).
When your mind starts piling up conceptual knowledge you are moving away from non-conceptionality and non-duality.

One day a Buddhist scholar came to the cave of Milarepa and the scholar said:
This yogi does not even have a single buddha image in this bare cave, he has not any ritual objects, and there are no books or scriptures here at all. Surely this delusional yogi will go to the hell realms

Milarepa responded: "My mind is the Buddha, so I am never separated from Buddhahood. My body is the temple of Buddha, so I always reside in the mandala."

Then the scholar walked away in anger.

The Mahasiddha Naropa was the director of the Nalanda university. He read basically every Buddhist scripture that existed at the time and was seen as the best Buddhist scholar.
Yet Naropa was still unhappy and unsatisfied.
One day Vajrayogini appeared to him and she asked: "You understand the words you are reading?"
Naropa said: "Yes of course." Vajrayogini mockingly laughed at him saying: "As long as you have not found Buddhahood you do not understand anything written in the scriptures, go find my brother Tilopa who will help you reach Liberation

>>19297720
dont know

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>>19297730
>they are literally the same
>same or differentiated
>dualism

*sigh*

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>>19297737
>Jain scriptures
I'm still VERY partial to their doctrines on Karma.

>I go back to retreat hut after my good kind friend finished dinner.
Buddhaspeed, Guruji Yaralava. Until we meet again.

>>19297725
I do not claim Abhinava's Uttara Kaula Trika. I think Abinavagupta was a sophist and not the ultimate teacher of Trika. I think Vasugupta is via Siva.
>>19297625
I agree but have seen translators and interpreters of Trika claim Buddhist enlightenment is the level of Maha Maya which is the deepest level of illusion and take it for the highest enlightenment. Makes ya wonder!

He was a sophist. I don't parrot his arguments. Just cause Im reading the Tantraloka doesn't make I worship everything he says. But yeah Trika hates Yogacara Buddhism. They had a scripture all about proving them wrong called Isvara Pratyabhijna Karika; bunch of sophist bullshit.

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>>19297772
Good luck on your liberation man.

>>19297625
> the systems acknowledge each other's power to Liberate
except for the ones they look down upon contemptuously, like the "hinayana". nevermind the fact that some of the "advanced" meditation practices that the tibetans use are analogs of earlier practices from traditions they deride. that sort of arrogance goes against the buddha's teachings. not only that, but they added a thick layer of gimmicky gilding to their anemic teachings to beef them up and make them look grandiose...and then they have the arrogance to say that simplicity is key!

yes, the systems have the power to liberate. i do not deny that.

>>19297799
see
>>19297791

>>19297802
y-you too

>>19297720
Are you the "Aghori" from Poland?

>>19297747
http://www.thezensite.com/ZenEssays/Philosophical/Logic_of_Diamond_Sutra.pdf
Have you read this essay by Shigenori Nagatomo? I took a class with him in undergrad and he like..broke my dualism through Socratic dialogue.

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>>19297737
>One should be non-attached and reduce clinging.

You could cut me into little pieces and I would laugh; how bout you?

>>19297737
>dont know

I found that out through tantras its kept real secret. When scriptures refer to heart they are talking about the spine the spine is the heart. The nervous system is where the energy flows and the heart (spine) is the main highway for energy. Its kept secret so only people who truly know can say. Spine is where the bliss flows up to the brain that is the essence of real enlightenment.

People talk of bliss and this and that but do they know bliss? I do.

Do yall Buddhist know about kundalini? Its kept so secret in Buddhism and Hinduism talks about it openly which is why I kind of rejected Buddhism about 17 years ago and went all in with Hinduism. In Buddhism to get initiated through it I heard you have to be a monk. Then you have to be the right kind of monk Vajrayana 1 of those 4 types of Buddhists cause they don't do it in non tantric Buddhism. Then you have to be the best student and have to have a teacher who is actually enlightened and only then do you get transmission of the real shit. You gotta admit thats fucked!

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>>19297738
Bhairava and Kali are metaphors not actual entities.

>>19297824
I have zero doubts you can drop the scare quotes from our Polish friend's empowerment.

I repeat, we are NOT gonna get anyfokkenwhere acting like squabbling Christcucks.

"As brothers fight ye". in Liber L vel Legis means "arm to arm" not "like fucking children".

>>19297828
Nope.

>>19297772
AKCHUALLY, is the new 2014 edition of SS worth buying?

>>19297747
What do you think of eating Crawfish? They have to get boiled alive. My Buddhist gf loves them but Im always like you are suppose to be a Buddhist and that shit is evil is fuck right?

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>>19297850
Right back at ya, El Duderino.

>>19297857
My dzogchen-devoted friend owns a cattle farm. He says "we've all been eating each other for almost forever- why stop now"

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>>19297857
>my gf

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>>19297720
Actually I have never even once claimed I am a guru or wise.
In fact I do not know anything, and therefore I am incapable of saying any correct Dharma. Nor have I ever practiced any correct Dharma.
I simply try to be kind to all living beings. That is all.
Honestly I despise it when people think I am Buddhist or that I am spiritual,
Therefore my robes are not red or orange, but grey.
Like Dzogchen master Patrul Rinpoche once got asked by a lama:
"Are you yellow hat(Gelug) or red hat(Nyingma)"
And Patrul Rinpoche said: "I only got this grey hat"

http://www.dzogchen.tv/en/list_a.asp?id=428

To sit on a high throne? No thanks. Not for me. I am just staying in retreat and sewing clothes (with love). I am simple and ordinary. You wouldn't even recognize me if I stood in front of you.

One of the last words of Milarepa was:
'I have done my duty. I am an old man now, leave me alone in peace."

>>19297799
I am assuming you are talking about differences between Tibetan Buddhism and Theravada?
You should know that Hinayana does not always refer to Theravada.
Most of the time Hinayana is meant by the motivation and capability of an individual.
See >>19289793
Theravadins can have Vajrayana motivation and capability.
Historically it has usually been the Theravada traditions that attacked the Tantric traditions, not the other way around.
H.H. The Dalai Lama has visited Theravada and Zen temples multiple times and speaks highly of them. He also personally invited Zen Buddhists to many gatherings, teachings, and debates.
H.H. The Karmapa has recently held a huge festival where Theravadins where honored guests and Karmapa praised the King of Thailand and the entire Theravada tradition.
He also held a couple of debates with Zen and Theravada masters.
There is no rivalry at all actually. Nyingma do not even get involved in such things.

>>19297799
this

Tried to find the picture of this white american lady who is a guru in Vajrayana Buddhism and she's dressed up like the Vajrayana version of the Pope with a hat like 2ft tall and shit; its silly.

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>>19297871
>"I only got this grey hat"
"I was promised Life, Love, Liberty, and Light, but all I got was a shelf full of old books and this damned spider monkey"
~ a friend on the OTO.

>There is no rivalry at all actually.
Thanks for the daily reminder.

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>>19297824
Nah I wanted to be a Kapalika when I was 18. Kapalika is where Aghori's came from. Kapalika is Aghori without all the extra rituals. Kapalikas might do all the same rituals but not daily to look a certain way like the Aghoris do. I just follow Trka the householder version made by the Kapalikas.

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>>19297858
>LMAO yep

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>>19297862
Haha. There is this joke that the only time a Dzogchenpa moves is when he is fed alcohol and meat.

>>19297857
I do not eat meat, but I am not vegetarian. That would just be putting a dualistic label on myself. If I must eat meat it must be so.
I also do not wear silk, which is made by killing silkworms.
Mahayana and Hinayana are very strict in not eating meat. Vajrayana allows eating very small amounts of meat, but not for pleasure. In general all Buddhist traditions agree on not eating meat.

If I remember correctly the Ebola virus was spread around because people ate monkey meat.
Its a lot easier to get food poisoning from meat then from plants.
But I do not eat plants for health reasons, because I am not attached to this body.
And I am not dogmatic. I do not hate anyone for eating meat. And people who do not eat meat are not any higher then those who do.
It should be a personal decision.
>>19297472
>"Most of the suffering in the world comes from people who are self-righteous and create a duality of us versus them. I am right and you are wrong."

http://dharmadata.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=96:on-flesh-eating-by-chatral-rinpoche&catid=50&lang=en&Itemid=154

>>19297880
Agreed.

>>19297832
Tantric Buddhists know about Kundalini, but it called by a different name and slightly different system (Avadhuti or central channel). But from the viewpoint of Dzogchen the kundalini is still a conceptual system. The kundalini is just a tool and is treated as such.

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>>19292187
>>19292341
>>19292395
In words of Milarepa:

-
E MA HO! (Listen with joy)
Son, when simplicity dawns in the mind,
Do not follow after conventional terms
Do not engage in the reasonings of logic
There’s a danger you’ll just waste your energy
Son, rest free of thoughts
Don’t you know that that praise and blame are just empty echoes?
Babbling and prattling will only disturb others' minds. Look at those fools wasting time in useless arguments! Strange indeed are Samsaric phenomena
I do not go checking on views to find out if my own is high and others' are low
I do not go checking on meditation to see if mine is good and yours bad
I do not go checking on conduct to see if I got it and the others missed out
The emptiness luminosity is mind in its basic being
A LA LA! This mind that's not tampered with, left uncontrived is when feeling good feels just right
With this understanding in mind, Whatever circumstance I may encounter, I am free in the happy realm of Liberation!
-

You know that saying "Do not look at the finger, look at where it points."?

All the 3 vehicles of Hinayana, Mahayana, and Vajrayana point towards Dzogchen, which is the true nature of your mind.
The 3 vehicles are the path of Dzogchen. The result of the path is Buddhahood.

For example in Hinayana you take refuge in the Buddha.
In Mahayana you take refuge in all the sentient beings.
In Vajrayana you take refuge in the Yidam.
In Dzogchen you take refuge in your own nature of mind.

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>>19297968
When we're practicing Dzogchen,
we should not hang out in the garbage piles of habitual patterns - staying there and trying to practice "Dzogchen." It won't become Dzogchen.
We have to wake up. We've been sleeping for a long time in the garbage mountain of our habitual patterns.
It's time to wake ourselves up. Wake up the bright sunshine of the reality true nature of the way things are
Making ourselves small and itsy bitsy, and staying in the dark corner and hiding. That is duality.
That is not the bravery practice of the Dzogchen. That is very timid practice - hiding in the corner, covering ourselves up with duality.
We've been doing that since beginningless time, again and again

Samsara is a dream. Nirvana is a dream. Enlightenment is a dream. The Pure land is a dream. All of it are magical illusions.
Dreams are not wrong, dreams are beautiful. Only clinging to dreams is incorrect.

The basic essence of Dzogchen is: Relax and rest in no thought with clear joyful awareness.

Actually my teacher says reciting OM MANI PADME HUNG is also enough for Liberation.
His main practice is the compassion mantra. Even tho he knows how to do Dzogchen, Vajrayogini, Tara, and so on, he always says OM MANI PADME HUM is the most imporant.
He said: All the practices can lead you to Liberation, simply pick one and stick with it for the rest of your life.

http://www.dzogchen.tv/en/list_a.asp?id=398

>>19297747
Thank you. May you and everyone else reading this have a wonderful day.

Goodnight all. Lama Khyenno. Tashi Delek. Give all your hatred or sadness to me and I will eat it.

>>19284759
Bhairava is the wrathful form of Hindu God Shiva, considered to be the main deity for the Kapalika.
The legends describe that Shiva became wrathful (Bhairava) after hearing Brahma saying that he is the supreme creator. Infuriated, Shiva cut off one of Brahma's heads. As a result, he had to take the penalty for brahmicide (killing a brahman): living for 12 years as mendicant and taking alms put into his bowl made from a human (brahman's) skull (Sanskrit kapala). In Bhairava's case, the cup was made from the decapitates Brahma's head.
The Kapalikas, following Bhairava's punishment, followed more or less the same lifestyle, that is, roaming around, carrying skullcaps, engaging in antinomian behaviour, and mingling with outcastes in impure places. They called their conduct mahavrata ( Sanskrit great vow).
That's the Hindu view.
The view propagated in this thread - that Bhairava is a demon - comes from Vajrayana.
The reason why Vajrayana Yidams trample Shiva and Bhairava under their feet is simple - it's a way to declare that Vajrayana is better than Hindu, and absolutely nothing else.

>>19290944

Geographical position..

>>19298076
>The reason why Vajrayana Yidams trample Shiva and Bhairava under their feet is simple - it's a way to declare that Vajrayana is better than Hindu, and absolutely nothing else.

Yeah its ironic cause they stole the tantras directly from the shit they are claiming to be better than.

>>19297832
>Do yall Buddhist know about kundalini?

It's called Candali or Dombi (San outcaste, low class woman), and it's mainly mentioned in the Anuttara school. It's mentioned in the Hevajra tantra and Buddhist Mahasiddha Poetry.

>>19298102
>Candali=Kundalini
I'm gonna call facile again; Candali is a multivalent concept that overlaps with godforms and certain empowerment processes as well as the motivating force of tumo, which I think is a slightly better fit for 'kundalini' given nadi doctrines.

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>>19297968
>>19297982
This is so legit. thank you.

>All the practices can lead you to Liberation, simply pick one and stick with it for the rest of your life.

I hate this because I know it's true.

Thanks for this thread man I appreciate you sharing what you know.

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>>19297982
Enjoyed lurking the thread namaste.

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I can't stop my urge to fap to pic related. She's too hot.

Will I'll go to naraka?

>>19300613
Only ambitious people dare to do it

Bump for teh lulz

>>19287442
Lolwut

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>>19302206

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>>19302222
She's so beautiful, I won't resist anymore

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>>19302237
DO IT FAGGOT

>>19302222
she looks so friendly there

>>19303684
I get a smug anime girl sense from that'n.

>"Holy fucking shit, anon-bo, you're such a karmic mess! You call that an offering!? Why can't you recite the mantra correctly?"

>>19300613
This looks so beautiful. Is it considered disrespectful to put up an image of her on my wall if I'm not a practitioner of Tibetan Buddhism? I'm practicing Yoga and doing Kali japa and I find this a really inspiring image. Is it right to say that Vajrayogini is another form and expression of Parashakti?

>>19304481
>Parashakti
Nonononono.

Vajrayogini is her own thing and in my experience already sorta "testy".

Within the overlapping correlation system between the two tantrik system, Vajrayogini would be slightly closer to Parapara.