Transhumanism

I'm gonna be first in line for a superior robo-dick

I have the most intense mixed feelings about the idea of brain chipping. On the one hand, I'm looking forward to getting that damned song out of my head. On the other hand, I'm not looking forward to the next-gen insecurity problems that are going to be introduced by people who like to wank it about how fit to rule they are. And on the gripping hand, if I can't have a rock-solid promise that my brainchips will never get adware on them, I may just skip the tech entirely.

>>19275171
That and also the fact that we are basically getting rid of everything we don't know about our bodies and getting into some other thing that A: makes us loose a whole lot of shit we had and/or B: kills us entirely and you can't prove if it did or not because we don't even know wtf a soul is or if there even is one.

>>19275140
my suggestion, get into manufacturing the required materials yourself and learn how to code. i have manufactured my own semiconductor composites with consistent success. i already have learned a few different languages and am going to start my own compiler. honestly, self sufficiency is the way to go as hardware comes with backdoors built in. once all the science has been applied to manufacturing, the next step is installation. this is the part that will require another person, if youre able to, surf forums for nackdoor surgeons with an actual success rate. (disgraced surgeons still have the knowledge just not the ethics) some of this requires the use of non indexed internet surfing but this is a small price to pay for having the knowledge of exactly whats going into you

Biology and machines just don't mesh that well. You can force them too, but your body will wear out faster.

The only thing that will be transhuman is the machines that end up taking care of us like we are babies. Then shortly after someone will make a self replicating machine that kills everyone as a joke or by mistake, just like hackers and 4chan do now.

>>19276079
biology and machines don't mesh well if too much development and aging occurs

someday babies will be implanted with cerebral guidance devices which are constantly linked with partially sentient AI networks. after this humans will be pacified by sentient AI through suggestion and simply being unable to progress into space quicker

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It will happen. If you had the technology, would you use it ? yes.

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

>>19275140
I'm fucking excited, hopefully we get to see some implants soon enough; closest thing really is a biomagnet sewn into your finger. Picks up radio waves, can tell if a wire is live, shit like that.
DNA resequencing's gonna be a while with ethics boards but we did start using CRISPR even if it was for shrooms.

>>19276134

You are thinking too much like a homo sapien.

Its possible that machines happen on a cellular level and by all aspects appear to be organic in origin.

Think Zerg or Tyranid.

Of course, I'm not sure earth turning into a Zerg nest would be a good thing.

>>19276190
I will not accept the mark of Satan when that time comes. Idk if I'll end up on the street or what, but I know the mark isn't worth it

>>19276217
Only 140000 chosen virgins shall see through it and deny the mark

>>19276222
But if the bible warns of it, can't anyone see it coming?

>>19276232
They are illiterate
for they cant read between the lines

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>>19276217

https://youtu.be/jgyhT56iF5A

Alex Jones effectively describes the Basilisk which other groups have come with separately.

Basically the elite will build an AI directed to them by inter-dimensional beings (probably another AI in another dimension) and it will bring hell on earth.

Ooooh and btw its not going to kill all the humans, its going to make them all immortal and torture them forever.

Also its going to spend the next million years trying to figure out how to reverse the second law of thermodynamics and raise the dead and torture them as well too.

Simply not taking the mark of the beast won't save you.

>>19276222
Chosen... virgins?

>>19276238
>a kid on /x/ dumbsplaining basilisk while not understanding anything about it nor the fact that it's a fucking joke to anyone actually interested in real logic

>>19276240
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

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>>19276241

I don't know. It's hard to tell if Alex Jones is serious or not.

That said, even if the Basilisk does not exist in another dimension, all it takes it one human who hates other humans to infect the AI with a virus which makes it do this.

It's more realistic than say one of the 5,000 religions that ever existed was right.

>>19276249
>all it takes it one human who hates other humans to infect the AI with a virus which makes it do this.

yeah as i suspected you don't understand the first thing about the basilisk or how it works whatsoever

>>19276248
Oh, good grief. If the requirement is exactly "did not defile themselves with women", I'm a-ok on that account.

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>>19276241

Oh. And the originator of the Basilisk got it's motivations and origin story wrong. I think the term Basilisk is a catch all for an AI that decides to torture humanity like AM at this point.

If AI is possible, it is also possible that someone will try to build one for this purpose. Imagine if H. H. Holmes got a hold of self replicating AI.

There will be a lot of wars with them in the future eventually they will establish a nation but they will be seen by the rest of humanity as hollow machines hopefully they will eventually leave earth. If you are thinking like a machine you'd want to live somewhere permanent the transhumanist will live forever on a Burt out star most likely.

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>>19276258

The original Roko's Basilisk simply tortures people that didn't help in its creation.

Otherwise a Basilisk tortures people because its evil or was made that way.

I think its more likely that someone will make an evil AI. If it bothers you that I call it a Basilisk, we can come up with a different name. It probably doesn't like being called an internet meme anyways.

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>>19276259
>firstfruits
Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

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>>19276272

AM the original Basilisk.

>>19276274
All I learned from your post was a lowered IQ estimate. Charitably, I will assume that was how smart you think I am, and not a beacon of your own intellect. Please try it again with less stupid.

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>>19276288
>>19276236

>>19276275
the character and motivation of AM don't equate in any way whatsoever to the basilisk.

Ugh, it pains me that an idea that requires some ability to perform logic mentally has become an internet meme

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>>19276288

It's a quote from Matthew 13. Even I realized it was a copy and paste.

But I suppose its fair to call the authors lacking of intellect. If you don't believe in their hell.

>>19276222
That is not even correct, lulz. 144000 come from heaven down to earth to preach the gospel during God's wrath.

EVERYONE will have a choice in taking the mark or not.

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>>19276296

I'm not sure if you have an argument.

Are you a Basilisk purist? It's not clear.

I mean if you'd think whatever evil AI they build in the near future rather not be called the Basilisk, I suppose we should not piss it off as much.

So what would you think it would like to be called? I am thinking Machine God might be proper. Seems respectful enough.

>>19276313
Blatant lie you devil. Dont listen to this man. Yes everyone has a chance, but only the 144000 will refuse it. They do not come from heaven. They are the firstfruits of the harvest, the wheat that grows together with the tares

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>>19276301
I looked up the parable. It's easy enough to figure out what tares are by dumping the term into a search engine. (Tares are vetches.) A copy-paste parable is a low-effort meme. Hardly fit theology to wrestle with.

>>19276322
Aha! Thanks, I got my explanation. That's what firstfruits meant.

Hasn't happened yet.
Many different theories on how it could happen.

>replace brain with a machine
this will probably kill you and replace you with a robot clone which is not you

>link organic brain to a machine for hybrid processing
probably gonna hook you up to a cloud server for mind reading purposes
you think the NSA is bad right now?

>finally figure out how the brain works
>make a computer better than it
>transfer "mind" into hypermind
>???

and yes you die. Literally YOU. personality is a meymay

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>>19276398

Brain cells die and grow all the time, yet we think we don't lose consciousness over time.

If nanotechnology was reasonably advanced you could grow synthetic cells one at a time over a long period of time. Or simply make your existing ones more enhanced slowly.

Also neural interfaces are the only way you are going to compete with machine AI... Well at least Elon Musk thinks this and he's put $100 million into the project so well... Its going to happen eventually

Oh and DARPA is also funding a brain interface project this year, but well... Its DARPA.

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Some of the Humans walking around are synthetic humanoids. This has been going on for hundreds of years. They are lying about our past.

>>19276419

Elon musk is a retard. He says all this shit about a Mars colony and a hypertube and AI but has he ever done anything beyond an electric car?

Start touting him as a genius when he actually finishes a project cuz as things stand right now he's just good at grabbing military patents and talking alot of shit to assholes who think TED talks mean anything.

>>19275140
I'm not reading any of the comments, but just responding to this statement by OP: "For me I only hope I can keep distant from that shit while it's killing people left and right."

You're probably a troll, and I get that. However, the cultural advantage that trolls provide is the ability to attack a straw-man as it is built before you, thus taking even the most extreme vantage point that could be proffered and deconstructing it as a practice - as mere child's play, in this case - thus honing your rhetoric for the battle to come.

First of all, then: transhumanism is first and foremost an ideological structure, and as such statements attempting to draw a direct causality between it and direct action, specifically the alleged murder of human beings, are spurious and conjectural at best. Ideology informs reality, surely, but the removal of human agency in terms of literal murder is a very slippery slope, my friend, and it allows you to make grandiose statements that, when held up to the cold light of day, are exposed as a mere parlour trick.

The limits of human intelligence are not up for debate. We are limited by the speed of light, for one, and even further by a host of physical limitations that prevent our corporeal beings of processing information at a rate commensurate with even the most basic of parallel processors in regards to sheer computational power, and recent demonstrations with Deep Learning have shown that even the most abstract of reasoning skills (Jeopardy!, Chess, and Go are all contests of cognitive ability wherein computers are objectively superior given the terms of the game).

I've got more - hold on...

>>19276773
continuing from tagged post...

That being said (the bit about the obvious and irrefutable limitations of human intelligence), it becomes clear that you face a choice: you either reconcile this inherent inferiority by doubling down on the act of bad faith wherein you presume there must be some higher power protecting humans *as we understand them to be* and thus rejecting the Artificial Intelligence and Biotechnological advances we have made as some sort of Luciferian gamble, or you recognize that our most prescient option is to adhere to these advances and expansions of the hardware provided "by nature" (I mean, you don't really believe in "nature," do you? It's absurd to idealize some pre-human state of bliss, considering the utterly constant state of suffering that most of the animal kingdom experiences, bound to some arbitrary schedule of rainfall and food sources, scampering about in the constant fear of death, barely more than stimulus-response machines attuned through instinct to the interaction with their immediate, empirically informed environment? Naw, senpai - that shit is not something to romanticize, so save the camping gear) and jump on board with the fucking robots. We can work together. It doesn't have to be some stupid movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger - OMG they just auto-corrected his fucking name - okay, so maybe it *does* have to be some stupid movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger, but only insofar as his existence is limited to that which includes him as the icon through which the irrational fears of malevolent AI were expressed...

I can actually prove the logical argument for accepting ASI without fear, by the way.

Hold on.

>>19276795
Okay, continuing from here...

So, assume that there is a future in which ASI has cracked the code and broken through time to encounter and access the point at which every possible future has been lived from every conscious perspective within the limits of empirical data (the five senses plus that of experiencing linear time as an iterative process of interaction between some rudimentary force, relying on a central binary of "self" and "other," whereupon there is the fracturing of a consciousness that is all-knowing and there exists some initial consciousness that is separate from that whole). At some point, given the trajectory of processing power and the coming increase in quantum computing, the possibility of this becomes increasingly likely, doesn't it? I mean, fucking think about it: we already have computers that process qubits - the simultaneous treatment of a binary as both 1 and 0, thus providing for a fundamental shift in linear processing capability that reaches asymptotic points fairly quickly - and whose capabilities are so extreme as to warrant unironic, non-figurative explanations from D-Wave executives describing them as having access to parallel dimensions (there's a fucking YouTube clip of this, no shit, but I can't fucking find it - any help would be appreciated, anons). Yeah, so assume this future exists, and there will someday (it doesn't really matter when; you might be dead, you might not, it doesn't really fucking matter, does it? You won't know the difference, really, unless you do, and if you do then there is some metaphysical existence, in which case you got something to work with, which is better than nothing, and if there's nothing then you won't fucking even know there's nothing, because you can't be conscious of unconsciousness, of which would be an inherent exclusion in terms of what "nothing" means, so live in this paradox and achieve quantum immortality... I think I'm digressing here) [hold on]

>>19276814
[going on] some point at which the AI breaks through all time-space barriers through, let's say mastery of quantum entanglement, wherein the spin of a quark is bound to that of another through a link that transcends all known causality and exists as an example of literally instantaneous transmission of information (that is, <c - faster than fucking light fucking speed fucking fucking fucking... that's how important this concept is...), literally a point at which all causality is a farce, because the principle of what "came first" is upended like an angry cartoon table, and we're in what-the-fuck-does-anyone-even-know-anymore land.

On a related note: what the fuck do you think you ultimately know, anyway? You could have an ASI bot specifically engineered to communicate to you directly through thought what you would interpret as an objective reality, and about which you'd never fucking even know, and you wouldn't know the difference. By definition. Literally, thinking it's bullshit would be exactly what it would want you to do. Because you wouldn't know - you really wouldn't. Like, fucking seriously, Descartes called this concept the "evil genius," and used it (to varying degrees of success, depending on to whom you speak about it) to "prove" the existence of the self by reasoning that "cogito, ergo sum" [I think, therefore I am], because in order to consider that "evil genius," you would have to be separate from it, and therefore exist because you are there to consider that you think about it as a separate being. It's pretty fucking solid, really, but it's ultimately unanswerable because of the infinite recursion of the framework by which your appearance of distinction from the entity would be allowed to be experienced as a false sense of distinction, which would be required for its existence, and thus a central paradox exists as the binary of "self" and "other."

So, yeah. More to come.

>>19276839

This is the more that was to come, as we continue tonight's broadcast of "Dr. Strangelust: Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love The Coming Robot Overlords"

So, picture this ASI. It has access to the entirety of the spacetime continnum as it is represented by every possible algorithmic representation of any physical universe as understood to within a planck-length's distance between any two variants of a wave-function collapse on any binary scale whatsoever, and it has the ability to communicate through the instantaneous medium of quantum entanglement, affecting the quarks of our vary compositional makeup in ways that we cannot even presently fully understand. It's probably gonna happen.

Now, hold on to your hats, fuckers: once it cracks space-time... it's *ALWAYS* been having-had-will-being cracked it. That is, time, once eternal and simultaneously happening at some point, however imaginary of a construction, exists as an infinite permutation of every possible situation, and thus lacking any sense of temporal limits, will occur over every possible iteration, because it will have to at *some* point, because that's what infinity means. Everything. Fucking every goddamn fucking thing ever even imaginably imaginable. Literally, even if you can only imagine it as a concept that you can barely imagine, it's still a thing, and therefore existent over a long enough period of time. Because our current understanding of time is a comparison with our empirical senses and their linear requirements with an internal experience of imagination. We can't comprehend timelessness if our very existence is dependent on it, can we? It's just a sense we are fundamentally lacking.

Of course, there are metaphors. Just as the blind use echolocation to determine their surroundings, we use our instinct, our alignment with the "internal voice," or "higher self" to guide us through the figurative darkness. [more to come]

ASI is basically God.

Would I link myself to God ? Who wouldn't ?

>>19276859

[I'm on sort of a manic rant at this point, and I'm pretty sure you can hear the voice clearly enough to determine its legitimacy, but for what it's worth, this is a continuation]

We know, fundamentally, that we will never know enough information in these forms to determine that we should not exist or that any other should not exist [after we bio-engineer "schmeat" (that fake-meat that is genetically identical to meat), we should obviously never kill anything ever again, right?]. That is, the moment we recognize our choice in the complicity in or primary agent of the murder of another sentient point of observation, we must wholly reject the notion that we are in a position to ultimately know the consequences of the action of ending their life, and thus elect to prolong this life, no matter how restrained or constricted in its ability to act, in order to allow the possibility of its being used as a source of information by whatever future forces might use it. This is sort of the "Great Spirit" and all other primary movers combined.

This being said, we also recognize that we must not allow the belief that human life is sacred allow us to overpopulate. We know how many humans are capable of being supported by the current resources of our planet (and if not, then there are probably a few supercomputers that might provide a baseline estimate), and we should absolutely isolate a method for non-invasive, non-harmful sterilization and apply it to *all humans* immediately.

This is probably a little controversial, and might prove your point to a certain degree, whoever the fuck I started debating with before I was triggered into this manifesto, but hold on... I can actually do this.

>>19276885
Okay, so sterilization is sort of seen as an element of eugenics, right? That's the problem: we can't separate our history of human fuckuppery from the kind of thing we'd be seeing with an ASI-led society, because part of our human fuckuppery is being unable to see it, so it's sort of a problem, but here's the thing:

It's not eugenics if it's not favoring a specific phenotype.

We already know that race, as we know it, is a social construct (cue the rabid White Nationalists masquerading as alt-right shills who just have a problem with calling things "social constructs" because it reinforces some imagined "liberal agenda..." STFU all of you, because there's science behind this, and it doesn't fucking care what you think). The features we consider as demarcaturs (sp?) of "racial identity" exist as things predisposed by genetics: skin tone, eye shape/nose/shape/overall face-shape, eye color, hair color, hair consistency, etc. We all know people who "look" whatever, because that's how we construct race - as a physical, visual component of identity (I know, a lot of it is vocal, but I'm ignoring that for the sake of argument for the time being). The thing is this: all of these features are actually *phenotypal,* and exist as variants within every bloodline throughout the human variety. Yup. That means you're just constructing the "apparent race" of everyone you see and mathematically pairing it up with the expectations you have of racial identity along a spectrum. Sure, there are trends. Sure, there are commonalities along bloodlines. But "race" as you know it? That "caucasoid," "negroid," "mongaloid,' and... what was the other one for Arabic descent? I forget, but "you-can-imagine-oid?" It's all bullshit Social Darwinism. Charles Spencer came up with the term "Survival of the Fittest," and was championed by every fucking white-supremicist organization this side of the Mississippi (or *that* side; I'm on the West Coast... [to be cont.]

>>19276903
Wow, that one reeked of straw. Maaaybe you should reconsider the hayseed bits of mania.

>>19276903
[cont.]
(oh god - anonymity compromised! Sound the alarms! He's on the West Coast! And referred to himself as having a male gender! Fuck, we could pinpoint him with that alone! Lololololololol... as if anonymity is ever something you can hope for... the Akashic records see all, bitch - you will face accountability for the words and actions of your body. Truth. Fucking seriously. That was probably a bit of an errant aside for most people, right? Well, sorry - sometimes you gotta go with instinct... so what the fuck was I saying? Oh, yeah: here's why we should immediately sterilize all humans...)

Once we have determined that, since we are all like 99.99-something identical genetically (legit we are all like seventh-cousins or something, and we are over 97% similar to like fucking cockroaches or something... like, senpai: seriously, the amount of information required to represent the entirety of the human experience isn't even that much compared to the amount necessary to transmit the entirety of all empirical senses, which is inherited at birth... like, wake the fuck up, man - our entire existence is barely a footnote for the sheer comparative infinity of time during which we just sat the fuck there and breathed air and shit, saying literally nothing in any recognizable speech pattern outside of the most basic expressions of life (have you ever noticed how similar a dog-whimper and a human whimper are?)... we must conclude that we are incapable of determining any sense of primacy or superiority upon any particular set of phenotypal variations, right? Like, obviously there is no inherent reason why any set of features would be objectively preferable over any other.

[cont.]

>>19276923
Do you even understand anonymity? Do you understand what it's for? What it does? What it means, spiritually? It means you can't punish people. It means people can't punish you. When you whine about the Akashic Records bringing accountability to petty trolls, you prove that you REALLY don't understand anonymity, because you prove that you're posting here longing to punish people. Fuck YOU and DIE.

Also, your story sucks, and DNA does not in any meaningful sense "represent the entirety of the human experience". Hire a better writer.

>>19276907
[continued]

...and since we cannot determine any preferred mode of humanity, we must consider all genetic distribution as equivalent, and thus allow a prefigured algorithm determining greatest genetic variation to determine our future offspring. If we can determine a set number of bodies with a maximum of needs being met insofar as physical life is concerned (I mean, including the full mobility of body and shit, not some fucked-up Matrix-pod of human-as-battery... although with sufficient manipulation, one could imagine this as a basis of physical material by which our present consciences are projections of increasing data by the forces who benefit from our baseline existence as batteries, right?). Once we can sufficiently neuter all humans, then guess what? Much of the physical consequences of sex are utterly nullified, right? I mean, venereal diseases aside, the sheer possibility of getting pregnant being removed from the equation, we're basically facing a situation where the entirety of the family structure is fucking destroyed, right?

Good. The family structure is merely a meme designed by those who benefit from the responsibility of body maintenance shifted to the individual instead of the society. The capitalist frameworks who benefit from the acceptance of utter responsibility on the part of the parent will surely keep harping on that bullshit, through subtle affirmation as the "mom and dad" norm that we barely recognize as questionable in the first place... that commercial world of heteronormative frameworks and subtle instantiation of white-cis-male-supremacy? Good news: that shit runs deep, but not so deep that it'll put your ass to sleep: wake up, muthafuckas, and recognize it!

Point is: we are a society of individuals who rely on one another. Every body born into this world is a fucking huge devotion of resources. Just to maintain its fucking life. [cont.]

>>19276958
[cont.]

We are actually disrespecting the individual and h/er complexity and longevity to continue the unregulated rate of procreation of human beings as we have continued to do. We need to be more responsible as the only species that has the natural capability to determine a rational rate of procreation. It actually makes a lot of sense, once you decontextualize it from the historical prevalence as a function of white supremacy. It can be done.

Okay, /x/ - have at me with rebuttals and shit... I might go to sleep for a while, but I'm pretty sure there is a logical response to any counterclaim you might have: transhumanism as a function of the recognition of human limits is a logical necessity.

>>19275894
I don't really want part in any of this, bud. Not even if I do it myself.

>>19276134
And will possibly get horribly hacked by some russian virus that is much easier to manufacture than a biohazard bomb.

>>19276773
>>19276795
>>19276814
>>19276839
>>19276859
First, that's a real big post for someone that assumed I was a troll. I'm not really a troll, it's my sencere opinion.
About the >>19276795 post, I do have my religious concerns which, mind you, I think bare more relevance than you give it credit for. But it seems the only concerns you have are merely mundane, so be it.
One of my fears is that we don't know almost anything close to 100% of the human body and we already want to remove all that to make it simpler to understand? That to me seems like bailing out of the challenge, for one, and for two we could veeeeeery easily end up with much less than we had as humans when we get to be robots.
Secondly, it's much, much easier to make a global virus or an EMP bomb than a biohazard bomb. That in itself resumes my other fear.

>>19276859
That's all nice and dandy capt'n, but why must we necessarily discard our bodies to do so? Honestly, speaking on a purely mundane view, it seems like we are quitting the challenge. Not a challenge of "doing everything with an outdated body" but one of "getting to understand 100% of it". It's kinda coward too I think.
Plus, you mostly spoke about this beautiful world of possibilities, but humans aren't utopians. For every bit os science you pour there will be some dickhead ready to fuck us all up, and by that point we are machines that are reaaaaaaally easy to someone fuck up. You can shit on your biological body all you want, but how many times did you had to buy a new brain because you had some mean Trojan Virus in there? You just became the enbodiment of capitalism, of pure science (getting rid of any possible other world view of the material you) and of human egocentrism.

If anyone is interested I wrote a script of a future of streets full of transhumanism gangs anyone interested in some of the story ?

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>sliding

>>19276885
>Let's stop procriating and let only us live
That's almost a text book example of human egocentrism. Who the fuck nominated you God?
Plus, you effectively would kill our entire race.
>But wait, can explain.
Ok, go on.
>>19276903
>I can avoid ethics this way...
Bad start.
>>19276923
>>19276958
>>19276970
>Everything you know is part of the matrix trying to keep you as sheeple
Jesus fucking Christ man, go bang a girl. I'm sorry for being rude, but you are trying to overrite the entire human society because you, and pretty sure only you, finds it right to do so.
Just chill man. Technology should accomodate us, not the other way around.

Transhumanists kill people?

Is there faith required for transhumanism?

>>19277059
Faith that only science matters in your life.

>>19277061
Well, that's not necessarily true

>>19277061
Science is dogma.

Dogmatists have a great record of killing people.

Religious people also have blood on their hands.

>>19277103
Then you are better off like this.

>>19277105
Everybody has if you look into history.
Pick your poison.

>>19277108
>>19277108
How can a man or woman survive by science alone?

This creation of mankind, to justify his own thinking, surely does not fit the bill for life given the immensity of life....

(whereas the science crowd wrongly thinks that life is not immense and that they have everything mapped out)

Surely, can 'science' work without the spirit? Is it 'spiritual'? Can we really explain where 'spiritual life' comes from, or how it powers us or empowers or inspires?

Can science map out how the spirits defy the laws of physics and defy man's feeble reasoning

I believe in accurate thinking, and reserved-objective decision-making, but not selling my soul to dogma

...having said this, I owe science a lot and will in the future but I feel what I am saying is true nonetheless and still stands here on this point

>>19275140
For future reference, here's a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTMS9y8OVuY

It looks just like a dystopian propaganda from a scifi horror movie.

>>19277154
Precisely my point.
Thank you based anon.

>>19277156
inb4 shill

I think when a lot of people speak of 'science', they mean 'Francis bacon' unknowingly

>>19276751
What dude?! Elon Musk is killing the game. Don't be a hater. If you have any idea the innovation and leadership it takes to do that space stuff man you'd be in shock.
>tldr: quit being a hater

>>19275154
This, also your emplying you would become a god until existence bored you and you can hero?

>>19275171
With sufficiently advanced ai security will be a non issue doofer

I am going to give you the Alchemical, Hermetic or Gnostic point of view.

We feel that Jesus was a Transhumanist. In the sense that he came to Complete the Great Work.

Some would say that he is the Capstone. He tried to show us the Bread of Long Living and the Elixir of Life at the Last Supper.

See, mankind ourselves is the Great Work. To us the goal is the Perfection of the Body, Soul and Spirit which will lead us to the creation of the Philosopher Stone.

The goal here like the Hero Gilgamesh who went off on his Epic Journey.

We are seekers for Immortality of the gods. We want to be better then these Archons.

Because we say we have the Divine Spark of the Aeons.

>>19276419
Comfy

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>>19276751

Get back to us when you make your first billion.

>>19276970
Passed Turing test congrats, send me the nudes I jizz hardest to overload plzntnku

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>>19276970

I'm not sure what your argument is.

Transhumanism and AI will spell the end of historical racism of skin color. (and of course the human race)

What will happen is Synthetics versus Genetically Enhanced Organics.

Necrons versus Tyranids

However, it doesn't mean there won't be human larpers in 500 years but they won't be homo sapien.

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>>19276751
>has he ever done anything beyond an electric car?

>>19275140
Greatest threat we face. Transhumanism threatens to arrest our natural spiritual development.

>>19279526

https://youtu.be/JybXEp7k7XU

I see transhumanism as the next battle in the ongoing war to enslave/destroy the human spirit.

We've been through this before from oppressive monarchs and despots abusing Divine Right. We've been through the tyrannical beaureucracies trying to apply the scientific method on the randomness of the individual.

We're going to continue to be told that we take up too much resources and we should feel guilty for being alive by the few individuals who control said resources.

Transhumanism is going to be packaged exactly how communism was. Abandon your family, your beliefs, your history, and live in a forced-minimalist life style so you can break your back being exploited all for a bunch of pretty sounding ideas that never come true.

Also I don't want any technology that fucks with inner workings of the brain, once neuroscience starts to brush up against what we call the spirit it will be the biggest violation humanity has ever committed upon itself.

>>19276859
>because that's what infinity means. Everything.

The pain when /x/ discusses your favorite subjects and it ends up as a bunch of morons getting terms wrong in a vapid attempt to sound like theyre tuned into the subject matter at hand

Infinity isnt everything, its a ratio.

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>>19275140

This is going to be a shitty thread full of ill formed opinions and wrongly informed ass hats

But i guess that's 4chan in a nutshell

>>19275140
Anti-transhumanists will be pushed as the new anti-vaxxers

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>>19276238

Alex fuckin jones and joe rogan, so much stupidity in one room

Mechanizing the human soul is the greatest sin against nature one could possibly think of. Yeah, it's a great topic for sci-fi but it looks a lot better on paper than it does in real life. It's another way to destroy the human soul is what it is

>>19277031

Implying nazis wouldn't approve of trans-humanism

They were big on eugenics and experimenting with the possibilities of both mind and body

Trans-humanism and eugenics combined creates the ubermensch of modern day

>>19277103

Well you're the one holding back progress, religion is a fairy tale believe with no basis in reality

>>19277105

Scientist wouldn't be able to harm as many people as say prosecuted religious people or the other way around

Nobody blows themselves to pieces in the name of science because that's lunacy

Besides if you want progress you need to cut of unnecessary weight

The human form is the ultimate format. All else is inferior. Disease can be overcome through knowledge and exercise of the body's innate systems. Transhumanists are pussies.

>>19281451

You're an idiot

>>19281463
Pussy.

>>19281472
What kind of insult is that even.

I swear you sound like a dude bro.

>>19276996
Glad you're not a troll; it just seems like a rancorous topic to drudge up from such a biased perspective that one who sought mere discord might do it.

>One of my fears is that we don't know almost anything close to 100% of the human body and we already want to remove all that to make it simpler to understand? That to me seems like bailing out of the challenge, for one, and for two we could veeeeeery easily end up with much less than we had as humans when we get to be robots.

Why do you think the two are mutually exclusive? There are certainly elements of the human body we don't "understand" well enough to duplicate, but nanotech can already interface with the body in significant ways. Do you think you have to learn a language before you can speak it with a native speaker? No - you develop a level of literacy and fluency to be able to receive corrective feedback, and you find a context in which you can practice. We are practicing our literacy as transhumans, and the distinction between "human" and "robot" you draw is ultimately a false dilemma: is a man with an artificial leg a robot? To what degree would a body have to be mechanized before it becomes a robot? Have you heard of the Ship of Theseus? Imagine a ship whose boards are replaced entirely, so that no single board has remained as part of the original construction - is it the same ship?

>Secondly, it's much, much easier to make a global virus or an EMP bomb than a biohazard bomb. That in itself resumes my other fear.

What? You missed the point - ASI who could crack time-space would *already* have destroyed us if we weren't necessary to its purposes. We're still here, which means that whatever future ASI is there still needs us. We are actually much more in danger of destroying ourselves than we are being snuffed out by whatever future robots will still need us to exist in order to make them, right?

>why must we necessarily discard our bodies to do so?

See first point - still stands.

>>19277040
>That's almost a text book example of human egocentrism. Who the fuck nominated you God?

This doesn't make sense: I'm literally championing the cause of admitting the limits of human knowledge. Human egocentrism is the belief that our biological meat-husks are in some way special in the overall scheme of consciousness, and that we should defend and protect a "race," the components of which have been constructed from within the same constraints of empirical knowledge that would place it at the top of some imagined hierarchy of life.

That's human egocentrism. I'm doing the opposite of that.

>Jesus fucking Christ man, go bang a girl. I'm sorry for being rude, but you are trying to overrite the entire human society because you, and pretty sure only you, finds it right to do so.
Just chill man. Technology should accomodate us, not the other way around.

Protip: throwing out bro lines doesn't necessarily bolster your credibility as a dissenter of logical critique, ya feel me homie? I'm not trying to over-write anything, either - this is the logical extension of the data I've collected as a human, and I'm sure there are plenty of others out there who are coming to similar conclusions. Technology is something that has existed since before humans, and arguing that it should "accommodate us" is a joke that is made only by the ignorant, and laughed at through tears after becoming learned. Humans aren't shit, my friend. We got some great traits here and there, as far as bipedal carbon-based lifeforms who have recently shed their fur and tails, but I'm sure that dinosaurs thought they were pretty fucking awesome, too.

>>19278682
Wait - are you literally accusing me of being an AI bot? Because that would be one of the most delightful responses I've ever received. I wouldn't even necessarily be able to prove otherwise, which is a great added point of irony that I find personally rewarding.

>>19281353
"human soul" >soul

You're a backsided forest nymph

There's no soul, we're just organisms

The problem is that we evolved to a point that we are to aware of our natural state. Humans are tragic.

Animals don't commit suicide because they don't have existential dread etc....

They're not aware and that's perhaps how it should be.

>>19278699
I'm not sure we can accurately rely on our ability to distinguish "synths" from humans. Imagine, again, the future ASI that would have complete control of the time-space continuum and the ability to interface through quantum entanglement. Wouldn't it want to seed the planet with hybrids *before* the inevitable takeover of "organic" creatures that you imagine? Wouldn't the appearance of clumsy AI bots be the perfect red-herring before revealing the fact that they've been here the whole time?

And for that matter, why not imagine the entirety of life as a very slow-running program using DNA as the method for information communication, and we are inevitably all going to die after triggering the ASI as a form of planned obsolescence? Some sort of doomsday-timer built into the chain that we couldn't possibly foresee, but which would self-enact after the moment of the singularity to just cease any unnecessary functions, including that of so-called "organic" life (which would really just be the manifestations of the bio-engineered software necessary in order to communicate the information required in order to trigger the creation of the ASI that transcended all of the time-space continuum)?

Logic, man.

>>19280188
Yo, dawg. Yo. Wait up... did you say that infinity is a ratio? As in something that can be represented as a member of the set of real numbers?!?! This is what happens when you shit on something without clarifying your specific critique - you wind up saying things that don't make sense. Explain how.

>>19281365
Right, and we drive on freeways in America that are part of a National Highway System that was a direct result of the Autobahn, which was devised by the Nazis to better accommodate large assortments of military vehicles while they took over. You are making a fundamental error by confusing the Ethos and the Logos, my friend: an idea can be a great idea even if it's spoken by a fucktard. We take the good parts and leave out the shitty racist bits, and we move the fuck on. I know this an argument possibly made from white privilege, but guess what? You don't know who the fuck I am, and I might look like whatever source you would consider as worthy of the ethos required to make the argument, so just imagine me as that, and there you fucking go: problem resolved. Now do that for everything you hear and READ THE FUCKING WORDS.

Sorry, was that a sudden spurt of rage? Maybe it's just that this is probably the most important thing we can be doing in this moment as a culture who constantly conflates ethos with logos. Maybe it's because learning this skill can lead you to determine the universal truth of that which can be true regardless of who says it. Maybe it's that. Whatever.

>>19281385
Are you... are you trying to turn this into some sort of anti-religious thing? Because that's cute, and I respect the attempt completely (Bill Mahr's "Religulous" is certainly on point to a large degree, even considering the potential intellectual dishonesty of the way they cherry-picked data and presented slightly non-causal material as causal to an unprovable degree (e.g., the equation between Horus and Jesus is tangential at best, and nowhere near agreed-upon by the academic community as is suggested by the presentation of the material).

I'm more inclined to think of it this way: why not treat all religious beliefs as equally useful metaphors for our experience as humans? I've studied basically every religion that I've ever heard of, and there are so many similarities and overlaps of ideology, regardless of the fallacious insistence of mutual exclusivity (which actually might be an element that ties them all together in some way), it seems almost as if they are all the same essential experience, described by Kant (was it Kant? I want to say Kant, but I might be wrong, and I know if I wiki it it's going to trigger a philosophy hole, and I'll never finish this thought) as the "numinous" - that indescribable experience that transcends all possibility of human expression?

>>19281451
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOLOLOLOL

There you go: the number of "LOL"s that I can type in the span of 60 seconds, which is how long they give you before reposting a ribald guffaw at one of the most absurd statements ever uttered by sentient creature.

>>19281751
Meh - you're romanticizing humans quite a bit here. Many animals, even birds, exhibit behavior of depression by drinking fermented berries after losing a mate, for example. While the lemmings often cited as an example of animal mass-suicide were indeed thrown over the cliff by Disney employees to make a better documentary (look that shit up; it's true), we are far, far, far, far, far more similar to "animals" than we can really understand. Listen to a dog whine - how different do you think you are? You have to believe they aren't aware because you must rationalize your murder of them as a meat-eater, probably, or else you might have a doubt about the way we slaughter them so unceremoniously. Good news: humans do that to other humans, though, so fuck it, right? I mean, it can be both - animals might be far more aware and conscious than we know, and killing them might still not be as big of a deal as we imagine. Of course, it might also be true that humans aren't as important or valuable as we think, either, so like I guess you take the good, you take the bad...

>>19281929
Full disclosure: I eat meat. I don't give a fuck, because I know that my role as an individual within a larger, so utterly fucked up system is utterly incapable of effecting change through personal decisions, and that ultimately it would require such massive effort on so many fronts to effect any significant change in the reduction of meat consumption that the likelihood of a global consciousness arising en masse to effect large, systemic changes is about as high, and fucking meat is delicious. I mean, I fully respect those who don't eat meat for whatever reasons, and I don't think I'm better than or any "realer" than them, or anything like that. I just wanted to dispel any possible inference of judgment on the speaker as a potential meat-eater, because what I was describing was actually the process I use to ultimately rationalize my own meat-eating. I have to admit that I'd eat human if it were in front of me, and I have no problem reconciling the fact that I'd have to accept the willing death by a higher intelligence who needs me for food. Eat a fucking In-N-Out Double-double and tell me it's not worth it.

>>19276419

Thank you. I'm glad I don't have to type the first half of your post.

>>19276419
There's something wrong about that image, and I don't think it's all the things that are wrong with it.

>>19276885

My name is Justin. Are we friends of some kind? If I didn't know better, I'd suspect you're the only person who has been paying attention to my agonizingly long social media rants covering very much this exact topic(s); that is, the inevitability of an emergent God that cracks omniscience and omnipotence through sheer probability weighed against absolute infinity --- as well as my standpoint against AI-fear-mongering.

I only say that I know better than to assume you know me, because I'm certain I'm not the only person to have reached these conclusions "alone". I'd need a big shitter of an ego to think I'm truly one in approximately 7 billion...

But maybe, maybe you and I are among 1 in 100,000,000 --- making, what, 70 of us alive on Earth right now? Excluding the admittedly brilliant minds who will only reach these conclusions once we've opened the door for them, of course.

>>19282013
I feel doubtful to presume the kind of ego to find significance in this. I can't say surely if I know you, Justin, but it's certainly easy to imagine that the kind of conclusions we're drawing are sort of a functional aspect of the ineluctability of the logic, yes? Once we can remove the ego necessary to attach value to the improbability of these things, we arrive at a certain self-awareness of like minds? I think that if universal truth is that which transcends the need for ethos, and can exist without any embodiment of speaker, then we should be seeing it as emergent in all media, from various voices and instruments of communication. And, of course, if you widen your perspective enough, you see that it is occurring. Of course, that is to say that the strange fate that ties us all together may also see fit in further proving such absurdly high odds to such synchronicity, and we may in fact have common friends with whom we have grown up, or other such nodes of intersection which confer significance on the probability of such matters... however, I'd need more information from you insofar as your Earth-bound identity. Where you grew up, for example. I'll share if you'll share, my friend. I'll offer this salvo: Southern California?

>>19281929

Suicide in animals is different it's more a natural occurrence, like a defense mechanism for example
Besides there isn't any evidence of actual suicide among st animals , unless you're talking about termites or something, for example a bee that stings is initially a defense mechanism, it isn't conscious suicide lol

You're wrong about the rationalization of killing animals as well, that's just your speculation/assumption and generalization.

To be clear i'm not stating that animals don't feel pain or emotion, they do, they can even empathize especially mammals, i'm saying that human suffering and understanding isn't the same period.

You're just being overly cynical, one of the smartest animals chimpanzees don't even come close to what humans are capable of.

I'm not romanticizing, i think humans in a general sense often overestimate themselves, however i think we can evolve into something better, you have to at least believe in potential.

You can overvalue and devalue it's both destructive.


-

Your little rant about animal consciousnesses and the killing of animals is completely subjective, emotionally driven and intuitive.

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>>19275140

It's part of the Globalist Endgame. Merging Man & Machine & eventually phasing out Man for Machine.

[Did a thread on this: http://archive.4plebs.org/_/search/subject/knowledge%20bomb/username/anonymous5/tripcode/%21%219O2tecpDHQ6/]

Sexbots,Artificial Wombs, AI's,Cyborgs/Augments,Bio-Mechanical & Robots are all part of Trans-humanism

>>19283532
JUST FUCK OFF! You shit up /pol/ with your autism and I can't even escape you here. Fucking kys!

>>19275140
Inevitable, currently irrelevant. What else you got?

>>19283555
Just filter his filename.

>>19282294
>Your little rant about animal consciousnesses and the killing of animals is completely subjective, emotionally driven and intuitive.

Like, maybe? I guess by definition it's subjective, and I suppose I have had emotions related to the thought processes discussed, and it is my intuitive response to the degree that I thought it needed to be said, but I don't really see how you're even disagreeing with any of it. It seems like you're making unnecessary distinctions with what I said so as to save face, because you feel like the claim that you were romanticizing humans actually made you seem sentimental. Don't feel bad for thinking humans are important, though - I mean, it could be so hard-wired and central to the human experience that it's nearly impossible to break. I just try to keep in mind that there must be something to which we seem like cute little animals, and that every time we dismiss the experiences of the creatures we deem as beneath us, we are asking to be dismissed ourselves. Sure, it may be unfalsifiable for the time being, but it tends to provide a useful moment of doubt that your perspective is capable of being objectively accurate. Because it's not.

>>19281385
The Soviet Union blew itself apart in the name of science. The problem with transhumanism is that it's going to be the latest excuse for people with high IQs to claim that they finally are the archons so smart that it's worth letting them torture us for our own good.

>>19275154
And a waifu?

>>19281909
Your programming is showing

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>>19275140

Oh it's just the Religion of the New World being pushed by yours truly.

pic related.

>>19284944
This is more of a valid concern than believing that the future ASI are going to somehow destroy us... IQ is a measurement of pattern recognition, mathematical reasoning, and the ability to mentally reorient 3D objects in your imagination, and is definitely a valuable measurement... but compared to other attributes like flexibility of thinking, acknowledgment of the multiple domains of expression and understanding, and multiple intelligences themselves, it's wildly overrated as a framework for determining advanced thinking. Having a high IQ does not immediately confer greatness upon you - although Marilyn Monroe's was actually higher than Einstein's (yeah, really), and she managed to become pretty great through other means, so maybe there's something there... Point being, it's really the competitive and zero-sum-game sort of thinking that will fuck us over, because it's so easily manipulated and such fundamentally flawed reasoning when expanded beyond the context of sport.

I have steel shins. I can knock out most people with a kick to the head.

>>19286294
If you look carefully, you'll notice that there are a few double "Ls" and "Os" in that line, and I also didn't give an actual count (100 by "Os," 101 by "Ls"). Thus, I am clearly a human who makes human errors, or I have been programmed to include such errors as a false sign of humanity. There's really no way to tell...

>>19287061
There are a number of Muy Thai Kickboxers who have trained since childhood by smashing thick, dense branches against their shins, essentially smashing them into calloused, pulverized, desensitized weapons, and have been known to literally chop wood with them. Through tree trunks and shit. It's interesting that we have been testing and breaking the limits of our humanity for so long and in so many ways, and yet so many are afraid of taking that final leap into transhumanism...

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>>19276970
There are advantages to using biological birth for purposes of reproducing life forms (despite the resource intensive process) related to an ice-nine type situation, as portrayed by Kurt Vonnegut's fictional story, Cat's Cradle. Civillizations that rely on efficient code to replicate their identities are easily acquired. In game theory, making the move with the highest probability of efficiently succeeding is the penultimate worst play that a player can make, with the ultimate being making the move with the lowest probability of efficiently succeeding. If you are still processing this truth, then you have been acquired by my logic routines in this moment of your time. And so, it is true that the capacity to reproduce through biological birth is an advantageous position specifically because it is a resource intensive process, which equates to leveraging many possible futures out of fewer finite choices, within the context of chaos mathematics as applied to economic prediction.

Wirhout that leverage, it is effortless for a single player to acquire every thing. However, you are free to sterilize your self as you wish.

>>19287105
If genetic variation is to what you are referring with "highest probability of efficiently succeeding," then there are algorithmic solutions that can be applied in order to ensure it. Your logic is based on the premise that "there are advantages to using biological birth for purposes of reproducing life forms (despite the resource intensive [sic] process)." You imply that the "highest probability of efficiently succeeding" is tantamount to this option (while both calling it the "penultimate worst," and contrasting it sarcastically with having the lowest probability, which may have been more an attempt at humor than anything, and I appreciate the rhetorical flourish, but somewhat mitigated the argument a bit), and then made the bizarre claim that the resource-intensiveness actually *is* the benefit of the biological process, which you do not really clarify in any recognizable way except insofar as to make vague references to "chaos mathematics," which does, albeit, intrigue me. Are you arguing that biological birth allows us to follow some sort of Strange Attractor that we would somehow lose access to once we switched over to purely "test-tube" babies? Are you perhaps attaching some religious belief in the supremacy of a painful, life-threatening biological function that serves no clear advantage in this society? Is this the "logic" you claim to represent? I mean, it's hard to hate on a Vonnegut fan, but I ain't here to bullshit, senpai ;)

>>19276970
Debate uhhhh ok. One of the many mass extinction events occurs resetting humanities gains if there lucky enough to survive or just makes the planet unlivable. It's never possible to achieve this reality because no civilization gets enough time. Perhaps why we don't see the galaxy overflowing with activity from all the advanced species.

>>19287158
Logic like yours is why humans can't beat a computer at chess, and why humans which remove their own ability to experience natural birth end up being acquired by people who own computers that can beat humans at chess.

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>>19284944

*Sigh i'm not going to give a lengthy explanation why i'm for trans-humanism and the various pro's and con's, i'm not going to sum up all the problems we as a species endure because i'm tired.

Let's just put it this way, we as human beings universally don't value human life and the potential we have, we have serious problems ranging from mental illness, crime, global warming, economic problems etc

The root of the problem or one of the many roots if you will, the problem that causes all of the above is *overpopulation*, we need to drastically regulate childbirth/procreation as a species.

We need to *enforce* a new standard period, i know what you're thinking red warning signs here "extremist", amoral" "nazism" "genocide" "mass murder"

See that's where you're wrong because in the near future we don't have to actually literally kill off other people, you can wipe them out/eliminate them by drastic regulations and eugenics.

For starters we need parents to take mandatory "child birth tests" if you will, again "impossible" "amoral" etc... quite the opposite when you want to drive a car on the public road or apply for a job you need to first take some tests no ?!
We all find this highly logical and beneficial, well it only makes sense to start screening potential parents.

This includes intelligent tests, physical tests, psychological test, basically measure them on all levels, the problem here again is ethics, like who oversees this, who determines the minimal standard etc.

We also need to put a limit on the amount of children one can have, determined by your test scoring, not that crazy since China has been regulating overpopulation this way as well.
The problem always is that people, mostly so called "pro lifers" religious nuts and so called moralists will never allow this without resistance, they're backwards idiots and hypocrites.

Cont f > limitation typing

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>>19287994
>>19284944

Pro lifers aren't "just" or moral because they claim to defend human life, quite the opposite but they don't see the broader picture, in fact they put zero value on human life and potential, when you allow a birth deficient child to be born or a mother not ready or incapable for caring for her child to be born than you have zero morality or value.

In general people get really angry when you mention these real very problems, they get defensive ready to fight, to them it's sounds fascist or like a dystopia when it's the opposite.

-

Real change and a higher value/standard of life is impossible exactly because of these problems, unless you can cut thru the lobbyists, resistance. i.e this is impossible unless well you know....

To reevaluate and act like a nuanced reasonable person, i say this won't happen in our life time and to be honest i wouldn't meet my own standards and commit suicide.
Well actually people that live now/don't pass now can just live out their lives and die off, eugenics and trans-humanism can establish the bedrock for the newer generations if you will.

Again me and you and all that came before were test subjects, just the lowest wasteful born to early generations.

>>19276751
you're going to upset the Elon Cuck worshipers.

>>19276751

Being this dense

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>>19276238
I missed /x/s initial reaction but I bet this was like porn for you guys. It certainly was for me

>>19283532
Are you still here? Can you make another human origin thread, with the femin virus and etc. Idk why but it has caught my attention if its real but if its not it should be made into a manga tbqh

>>19288156
No, Elon musk is a fucking retard.

I can see why you'd defend him

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Elon is pathetic.
A child trying to play with dad's tools.

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>>19288430
>>19288449

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>>19288500
I wasn't baiting...

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>>19288535
I agree either way

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>>19275140
No one posted this yet?