The idea of Hell doesn't make any sense, I debunked it here

>hell is bunk because your soul doesn't have pain nerves

Absolute. Autism.

Also, souls as an idea lack the physical ability and mechanisms to feel pain.

What do you guys think?

Torment does not necessarily mean pain. I believe in Hell but i do not believe it is eternal.

http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/purpose-of-evil.htm

http://www.near-death.com/religion/god-is-with-us/the-near-death-experience-and-universal-salvation.html

>>19199732
Pain is nebulous and doesn't mean anything when you try to apply it as a concept to something non physical

Prove me wrong if you care

>>19199742
What could torment mean besides pain?

Sorry, unable to click the links right now.

>>19199729
there are only 2 things that can happen according to the bible if you dont go to heaven according to the bible

1) you end up on the other side of the gulf in the afterlife. people in heaven can see you and you can see them according to how its laid out but no one can cross to the other side. heaven wouldnt be heaven with a view of hell. in jewyism all souls go to sheol. it wasnt until later they added heaven in to jewyism to keep people from converting. the other side of the gulf is sheol logically

2) you are "blotted out" aka second death . the death of the soul. you pissed him off so bad he wont ever have to look at you even though he has omnipresence

the reference people have of a "lake of fire" is actually a trash fire that was outside of a city. it wasnt your soul it was your corpse that would burn with the trash as a insult desecrating the corpse preventing burial rites. the jew version makes this more clear but hey your reading the bible which has the snake as lucifer some how and in the jew version its just a snake

>>19199729
To believe in hell means you believe in higher realms of existence, which means you believe in souls. Hell then wouldn't be a physical place where Devils poke you with a stick, but a place where your consciousness is tormented by your misdeeds during life. Imagine the shame you felt when doing something horrible, now you get to relive that moment over and over again without a way to think of something else or drink away your sorrows.

>>19199743
Hell is the objectification of the soul's inner reality, or, in other words, its level of spiritual development (or lack thereof in this case)

I can go into it more but no Hell is not some permanent time out, just because. There are different ways to describe it, but one way is: Hell is the evil soul being confronted by its original, divine purity, and the fact that it polluted itself like it did with its evil actions in life drives it up the fucking wall

Another is Hell is the soul's distance from God (not that different from what I just said).

Hell is not an external, arbitrary punishment opposed on you but the soul, after all external "data" has been officially voided by death, coming face to face with itself and really not liking what it sees

>>19199757
Shame is a mechanism compelling a human to act specific ways. Doesn't make any sense to apply it to a consciousness.

>>19199749

mental suffering

>>19199759
What reason does a soul have to like or dislike anything if it has no reason to prefer any thing over another because it has no self preservation instinct or biological mechanisms to "like" anything?

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>>19199729
I read this entire thing in Stimpy's voice.

>>19199756
Makes more sense but the mechanisms deciding which you go to are still arbitrary

>>19199780
I love Ren and Stimpy

>>19199774
It is the horror of realizing it violated its own nature on a profound level.

This isn't about arbitrary preferences, but at death, the soul arriving at its root, its fundamental nature, its not about liking or disliking but being confronted once and for all with the truth of yourself

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>>19199729
The problem with your argument is that you assume the soul just stays a soul in the afterlife. The Bible explicitly states that after the judgement, we will be given new bodies that can't be damaged and that don't age, don't get diseases, etc. This would most certainly apply to the damned as well as the saved. Having an undamageable body that can't die yet suffers torment for eternity, or even just for a temporary time to cleanse the soul like in Islam, would in fact be painful.

Hell starts dragging you since the day you are born, everyday you are closer to it, you get a small taste of what's coming to you. Hell is real, you just can't wrap your head around the concept.

>>19199808
How does it feel horror in the first place, though? If it doesn't have a body or a brain, where do any of it's feelings come from?

>>19199814
How are the bodies made to not be damaged and not age?
And how is a soul transferred from one body to another?

>>19199816
>It's real you just don't get it
Elaborate if you want to argue in good faith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciYPWQMzwR4

>>19199729
it is true at that point and I thought the same as well before.
however its not above some all knowing power to grant us exclusive shells in hell to receive pain.

If you don't care about pain and suffering anymore,
you reach enlightenment in hell.
and thus you could probably open the door to your escape.
theoretically.
if we even have a grasp of what it surmounts to

>>19199819
There's no way I could know the technical details, but you know how you still have a (very dim) sense of self in your dreams? The one that acts without any conscious filters? Like that.

>>19199830
They are bodies of light, incorruptible bodies. In essence, what we're talking about is a spiritualization of the flesh, as in, the body is no longer "other" from you - like I control my body but I sure as fuck dunno what's exactly going on in me. In these new "bodies", I will be all spirit and not just spirit-matter

>>19199838

I just said it, YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT, you are either awfully uneducated or extremely self centered, if you can't understand the teachings of your own life, how am I supposed to put the concept into words?

>>19199847
My dreaming self is still a function of my fleshy brain.

I don't expect you to know that, sorry, I asked on impulse.

I am unsure I can argue in good faith past this point because I am still figuring out where I think consciousness comes from.

My last point though is

If you're in an undamagable body with no foreseeable future of living in the physical world again, what point is there to caring about pain or torment? You just exist. I don't see the difference between heaven or hell in that way

>>19199852
You're very rude, you know that?

If you'd like to explain when you're not so frustrated what it is I'm not understanding, I won't hold it against you.

It took you this long to realize heaven and hell are made up? Welcome to adulthood.

>>19199842
Bleak. If it does happen that way, I guess that's the ticket.

>>19199891
Well, right it is, but my point is there are deep tendencies in your sense of self that reveal themselves even when your waking consciousness is lights out.

Consciousness comes from the brain. that does NOT mean consciousness is somehow reduced or anything less than what it already is. the fact that it comes from the brain makes it all the more miraculous.

the big redpill is though you are not your brain nor your body, but a center of a awareness. the cultivation of this center, as opposed to running after sense pleasures etc. is the overcoming of death, because death is the stripping away of everything BUT this center

you exist either closer to the light or farther from it. or rather, you exist either in harmony with the divine nature of your soul or in discordance. I don't like saying "divine nature" and shit cause it sounds new age-y, but just understand this: what is revealed to you when you die will neither be good or bad or anything that is understandable by worldly terms, in a matter of fact, it's transcendent. as in, it kind of "hits" you just how far beyond the petty bullshit you always were, and hell is realizing you fell very, very short of it and how much you let the small stuff (relatively speaking) get to you

>>19199898

Did you feel anything? That's a small taste of hell. You are very accustomed to everyday life, if you understand physics then you can see how everything that surrounds us can be explained through simple math, that's the reality you are thinking of, you are basing your thoughts on simple concepts that don't make sense when you try to translate them to things such as feelings. It's not complicated, you just have a fixed, blurred and warped perspective.

>>19199898
>You're very rude, you know that?
i didn't read the whole thread but to say sorry

>>19199929
That's because the world is indifferent to feelings, not that it makes them any less valuable to us. It's just that the world is an absurd thing and the only real static anything is nothing.

So I understand if you're saying that Hell is existing as a meaningless thing, but I was debunking eternal torment after death with this post, not that.

>>19199932
It's okay. Thank you for apologizing.

>>19199920
I kinda get what you're saying but I disagree with the idea that I can consciously experience anything as this "I" after death

Pain can exist without a body.

First, consider the soul. It could be extracted from it's pure experience.

Secondly, consider the brain as a physical analogue to consciousness. If we tinkered around with your brain, we could make you feel pain without actually being hurt. This is due to the digital encoding of consciousness.

>>19199953

No, I didn't mean that and you can't debunk it if you can't understand it.

>>19199959

And this >>19199852 is me, this >>19199932 isn't, I don't feel sorry for telling you that you don't understand how life works, because YOU DON'T.

>>19199984
I at least appreciate your honesty. If I really can't understand what you're saying, then I hope one day I can so we can talk about it.

Otherwise, I don't really see the point.

>>19199729
Yeah but after the dmt hits the atrophy does induce a feeling of hate and pain. Death is pain faggot.

>>19199971
You don't. There are different views of this but I'll give you my personal understanding of death and all this shit:

You die to the extent you are the life of your body, in other words, to the extent you are attached to life/embedded in this "frame".

So at the breakdown of the unity that is your body, you dissolve to the extent you never cultivated the center that was this unity's sum product - your consciousness. This is the fate of the vast majority of people, not tryna be edgy.

In that case, you dissolve into nothingness. But for the worst of us, I think that sheer mismatch between how low their souls have degenerated and their true nature (nothingness, ie pure freedom) causes Hell.

For the person that does cultivate their spirit, they are totally at home with this nothingness, and so experience it as pure bliss. But that's reserved for the elect who put in the work

>>19199983
I don't think there is a "digital encoding of consciousness"

The only way youd be able to make me feel pain without being hurt is by making the neurons for pain fire by sending a false signal

I don't see how that'd be possible or why an analogue to neurons would exist in a "soul"

>>19199767
That is not how Christian theology describes Hell, they describe it as an actual place where you suffer physical pain by being burnt in eternal hellfire

>>19200010
I get what you mean now I think. The core is actually nothingness and everything else is an artifact of your body?

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>>19199999
>>19200000

>>19200010
Not him but you're making the afterlife more complicated than it seems. If you don't know, you can just say you don't know instead of saying.... whatever it is you're saying.

>>19200025
right, a nothingness you either experience as void (if you are void yourself, that is, evil, always consuming, always running away from yourself) or an indescribable fullness - if you have fullness, spirit, whatever, in you. it's one thing, nothingness, just along a gradient of emptiness - fullness

OP here, gonna sleep now. Sorry folks, tired

>>19199814
>implying the bible has any truth

How's it feel to be brainwashed by Constantine

>>19199743
you haven't proven anything in the first place you fucking total autistic asshat.

prove me wrong .

>>19199729
The way Islam describes it, it won't be just your soul in hell but your physical body which will be reconstructed.

>>19200091
Islam also says Allah will punish the nonbelievers and create a world with only Him as authority. So what? Hogwash like any other