Gnostics of /x/, convince me to become a gnostic. what arguments

>convince me
You'll be a slave forever.

>>19181529
/thread

>>19181529
i fear more going to hell forever than to be a slave forever, try again

>>19181549
>fear
You're enslaving yourself and are unaware.

How about you do your own research, you lazy faggot?

File: 1490719633460.png (1MB, 1583x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1583x1080px

Research yourself.
Or get hand picked
To experience
Gnosis
Idiot.

Gnosticism can't be spoonfed anon.

>>19181512
>what arguments in favor of your belief do you have?

It's true

>>19181512
>convince me
Have fun getting cucked faggot. Demiurge is gonna pound that fleshy pussy for eternity.

>>19181688
Dubs so even kek agrees.

>Christians are sending themselves to hell
>the god of the bible is evil
>jews are truly the chosen of darkness

Everything makes sense with gnosticism

>>19181549
Hell is a lie.

>>19181553
>>19181577
>>19181580
i'm not trying to acquire knowledge on gnosticism on 4chan, i'm just trying to have a couple of arguments that will make me think that a research on the topic would be useful, but i just have the feeling that you believe in gnosticism just because.

>>19181722
I've always been gnostic...
Sorry so I can't be helpful anon.
Just look for Lesser Key of Solomon, Goetia, etc.

>>19181722
I got into gnosticism because I started off as a Christ fag. And as time went on I noticed it was bull shit. Tried atheism. Yet i still believed in the possible existence of a god. Discovered gnosticism, dove into that shit. Look at the Old Testament. Your god is an asshole. The way Christians describe him is nothing like how he is depicted in the Bible.

File: winter-wallpaper-12.jpg (272KB, 1920x1200px) Image search: [Google]

272KB, 1920x1200px

>>19181722
Research it or don't
Why do you need
Convincing?
Im sure you have
10mins to read the
Wiki atleast

>>19181722
Also if you want to learn about gnosticism there are plenty of websites. Also I recommend reading the Gnostic bible. There are pdfs out there if u don't want to buy it.

>>19181722
See
>>19181696
Don't tell me it doesn't make sense

>all these "gnostics" saying if you need convincing you'll be hurt and suffer, potentially forever
>all these "gnostics" just saying "go read a book" instead of trying to impart knowledge

Well I can certainly see that many of you come from a Christian background. You haven't changed tactics, just the label you shill for.

>>19181781
I never was Christian anon.
My family never was Christian either.
Fifth-generation gnostic. And grandma always said "Read, don't ask to me"

>>19181789
Then your grandmotherwas stupid. Reading is just another way of asking. Did she not have anything worthwhile to impart?

It's OK to not give answers if you have nothing of value to impart.

>>19181512
Gnosis cometh to thee.

>>19181793
The lesson we are trying to impart is that if he wants to experience some grand revelation, then he needs to look for it. It's not our job to spread our beliefs like a disease. Similar to the Christians and atheists, who are so devoted to bolstering ranks.

>>19181793
>Reading is another way of asking
Lol wut? Are you seriously that handicapped that you need to insult a dead person so you have the higher moral ground?
Grow up.
And READ.
As I'm sure you have touched 15books max.

>>19181781
>Well I can certainly see that many of you come from a Christian background.

They do, barely anyone is gnostic and the "gnostics" of 4chan converted when I had gnosis instilled by God and entered the faith myself, now, fucker, what do you want to know?

>>19181549
You're missing the point - this is 'hell'.

>>19181731
Those aren't gnostic texts, those are treaties on magic. Faggot

File: 1491247547144.gif (318KB, 180x180px) Image search: [Google]

318KB, 180x180px

>>19181810
This basically.

>>19181825
In a way
In another more like a loop.

>>19181836
Ik.
But they are heavily influenced by gnosticism anon.

>>19181793
Just like it's okay to not give answers if you do.

>>19181810
>then he needs to look for it.
He is. He came here. He came to people he knows are gnostics. You aren't giving answers, but you are teaching a LOT.

>>19181816
I'm a bibliophile, mook. And yes, reading is a way of communicating with the dead. Reading a book is EXACTLY the same as asking a person for their knowledge.

Look, if you have no knowledge of Gnosticism just say so. Insulting people for wanting to know just makes you look scared of your own naivete.

>>19181817
Me? Nothing. I know what I want of gnosticism. I'm just laughing at the holier-than-thous who thought this was a proper response to someone seeking truth.

>>19181838
LOL, you don't even know of any books to recommend. Look, you REALLY should just not answer if you don't know anything. It's not like your grandma where you can't tella kid "I don't know" because the kid won't stop being annoying and you live with the brat so you have to say something. Just say "I don't know" or better yet never post. It's faster and you don't risk being such an idiot.

>>19181845
But you are giving answers. Every post is an answer. Your answers are just worthless.

>>19181739
i know what gnosticism is, i don't need wikipedia, i need motivation on why being gnostic quold be better than be a chrstian or an atheist.

>>19181855
>worthless
Says you, spoon feeding him is worthless as well.

>>19181865
So your options are spoon-feed, or insult and say "read" with no suggestion as to what to read.

Or if you're an idiot with a grandma, you suggest magic books.

If this is what passes for gnostics, then its a good thing you DON'T tell people what you know. It would only slow them down in their pursuits.

>>19181862
>i need motivation on why being gnostic quold be better than be a chrstian or an atheist

It's about what you believe, if you believe gnosticism is true, you'll want to be a gnostic, I can help you with that.

See how the jews have their dirty hands behind every evil?

The chosen of YHWH.

See how christians are retarded? Following a slaving religion that makes you dumb? You don't want that and there's even a mental trauma that unfolds with this faith, religious syndrome or something.

See how the very god of the bible is quite evil some times? That should tell you it is an evil demiurge instead of a holy god.

>>19181878
Congratulations, you insulted another anon for free.
Childish.

>>19181884
You don't make good reading recommendations.
You don't provide any information to those seeking it.
You aren't funny or entertaining.

You have no value other than to be insulted. Why does this surprise you?

>>19181921
Intolerance is rampant.
It's a show of how badly mankind reacts when it doesn't want to see the PoV of others.
It doesn't surprise me... quite the opposite in fact. It fits the year.

>>19181932
>thinks insults are intolerance

Oh I tolerate. I want you here. Just because your only value is as a urinal doesn't mean urinals aren't wanted around.

At ANY point you can decide to have value besides being a schmuck and actually talk about gnosticism.

But you won't.

>>19181936
>Insult: Verb. speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse.
Disrespect=Intolerance

>>19181939
No, disrespect does NOT equal intolerance. Is this more of your grandmother's teachings?

>>19181855
>Your answers are just worthless

Really? Because in fewer words than your very first line, I've imparted more onto this fellow about gnosticism than is contained in the entirety of your driveling, self-important verbal diarrhea.

gnosis.org

File: 89981D38E.jpg (34KB, 604x452px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 604x452px

>>19181943
Like talking to a Wall

>>19181936
Op wants motivation. Not knowledge. You just seem to a sad belligerent man. Who wants to inject himself to create a situation over the internet. Because he has nothing else to do with his life. I feel bad for u man. Please depolarize yourself. The middle pillar is a great ritual for that.

>>19181961
>The Middle Pillar
This!
Seriously!
Just do this!

>>19181878
Hey man I didn't insult him, I'm not everyone posting lad I'm sure you know this.

>>19181961
>Op wants motivation.
And you thought "No, go read." was a good way to give motivation...

>You just seem to a sad belligerent man.
Belligerent yes, but this is quite fun. And not a man.

>Who wants to inject himself to create a situation over the internet.
There's no want. I did.

>Because he has nothing else to do with his life.
You think these responses take more than a minute? That this gets any attention beyond humor? Perhaps that is the extent of your life. That almost makes this less fun.

Almost.

File: 1497861661254.gif (2MB, 500x459px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x459px

So... this thread got ruined by a single femanon who thinks she's Holier-than-thou and also likes to think she has the empyric truth of Gnosticism.

>>19181973
I feel like you look at whatever pisses u off. And intentionally desire to be pissed off. You're overlooking a lot of what we are saying. Please find peace.

>>19181982
Sounds like /x/ to me.

>>19181973
Also reading for yourself is a great way to be motivated into wanting to learn more. It's how I got into it.

>>19181995
Indeed.
Never change /x/

>>19181982
You ruined the thread before I ever got here. You c an still save it. Just bring the topic back to gnosticism and not focused on trying to to make me get mad.

But you won't. You're precious ego has been bruised and you must show how much better you are. When really it's just that your scared people will find out you really don't know anything.

Go on. Talk about gnosticism. You can do it. We believe in you.

>>19182000
I think you're projecting.

>>19182000
And what do you want to talk about?
That Khaos created it all?
That Sophia made Yaldabaoth because it was boring to be almighty?
That She missed some stuff and ol' Yalda doesn't know the difference between Good and Evil?
That It created a Council of Nine Archons to oversee it all?
That Four of them left because they wanted to destroy mankind?
That the other Five were punished because of this?

What. Do. You. Want. To. Know?

>>19182012

That's not the kind of thing you have to learn from gnosticism, I'm afraid.

>>19182016
From the classic one... nope.
Classic Gnosticism thinks Yalda is 100% evil.
He isn't evil... just misguided.

>>19182012
>What. Do. You. Want. To. Know?

>Me? Nothing. I know what I want of gnosticism.

Funny how quickly you want to give answers once you get pissed off, thinking someone sees you as stupid.

Why didn't you ask these questions of OP?

>>19182020
Because the Path for me was a self-discovering one. And it was worth it at the end.

>>19182026
>Because the Path for me was a self-discovering one.
No it wasn't. You went and asked your grandma. And she told you to read. She probably gave you direction in what to read. Or at least I can hope she did and isn't as vapid as her grandchild.

You can't even go ten minutes without ignoring the influences on your life.

>>19182019

Who is yalda? As far as I know if you observe the world there is YHVH and not yaldabaoth.

>>19182036
Short for yaldaboath

>>19182033
Nope... no direction at all.
It took me 13 years to find, read and Understand everything.
And I will do the same if I ever have children and they ask me this.
Let them do the research if they truly want to Understand.

File: 1428763755913.jpg (37KB, 649x336px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 649x336px

>>19181512
reading a book on gnostics atm. to sum it up

>earth and material existence is hell and a false reality
>god, yehowah, ect. the demiurge is the devil
>all life has a microscopic spark of divine "light"
>gnostics reach to separate themselves of all that perpetuates suffering (like abstaining from sex and reproduction)
>the psyche is a mirror of divine existence (iirc)

>>19182044

No, you'd have to use the biblical name because it's proper to tell people who we are talking about.

Also Sakla is one of my favourites (fool) but I don't go calling yhvh sakla normally because people would not know who I am talking about.

Also and just so you know, there only can be one tradition which is true.

>>19182067
Nice greentext about Classic Gnosticism.

>>19182067

Which book? Not all gnostic traditions are reflected in books.

>>19182064
>Nope... no direction at all.
Liar. Your grandmother directed you to read. You are saying that instruction was useless. Your grandmother was useless. Like you are useless.

>>19182067
Oop, there we go. Some actual content. Hopefully this will continue and I won't have to insult some information out of useless lumps anymore.

>>19182070
Whatever floats your boat man.

>>19182091

What is wrong with you, why so hush hush about your faith? Don't you want to spread the word?

>>19182077
The gnostic bible. Reflects sethian, Valentinian, and Syrian beliefs. And has explainations along with apocrypha and ancient texts and gospels.

>>19182099
Hermetic principle of silence. There are times and places for expressions. Just as there are times and places for silence.

>>19182086
Au contraire, that was the best advice I ever got from anyone in Terra.
Even if I didn't understand it when I was 8.

>>19182106
>Hermetic

We're gnostics, not new agers, religion mixers of hermetics.

>>19182099
Humanity has all of eternity to achieve gnosis. There's no rush. No need for evangelism

>>19182102

It's a handy compendium. What's your favourite writing?

>>19182127

Ah yes, you have the wrong gnosticism and the wrong reality, neither does physical reality last eternally, nor does humanity nor were we expected to fail miserably constantly.

>>19182126
I mean whatever floats your boat man. I don't see any problem in it.

>>19182132

Please leave the thread, we aren't hermetics.

>>19182131
The wrong gnosticism? In a universe of infinite possibilities there cannot be a single truth but many. I personally like the gospel of Thomas and the secret book of john. I find them the most insightful.

>>19182143
>In a universe of infinite possibilities

No, it's a faulty universe, kind of like the matrix.

>>19182126
>>19182127
>>19182131
>>19182136
>>19182143
>>19182153
>gnostics can't convince OP
>gnostics can't even convince themselves

>>19182172

To be honest some retard is ruining the thread with wrong ideas and notions on gnosticism, a knowitall of sorts that's spreading disinfo from other religion and shitting up the place.

However I offered to convice OP and he ignored me, so he probably doesn't care.

>>19182178
Or maybe even are the same anon.

>>19182143
Hypostasis of the archons is pretty accurate.

>>19182178
Your fault. Those that do not tell their story allow others to tell it for them.

>>19182205
Best stories are told in silence.

File: abraxas_grimoire.jpg (122KB, 500x666px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 500x666px

>>19181549

He's trying to help you tell yourself something you may already know. Nobody can convince you, and no argument heard from someone else will sway you.

You must look into things like this yourself, as they aren't practical so there will be no demonstrations that could convince you.

'Convince me to become a gnostic' isn't even a good path and you aren't asking yourself the right questions.

>>19182205
Ok so, you enter a place, a new thread so to speak.

And people are already swimming in shit.

And the most shit-eating of them all says:

Pls throw me a life saving parachute!

And you're like: Shit son, you're swimming in shit and you want a fucking parachute?

And he keeps eating turds, and you offer a boat or something, to sail to safety, but he's not interested unless it is made of shit.

How do you help such a person?

Only a bullet to the temple helps.

>>19182353

I'm not telling a story, I'm saying that AN IGNORANT FUCK came here, tried to be a smartass and confused the fuck out of everybody because in real life gnostics practice their own brand of gnosticism and don't mix every tradition and similar beliefs in one, thus creating rivers of shit.

>>19182360
You didn't say that. You told a story about coming into a room, seeing people in shit, and recommending that they be killed. You were trying to be witty and it failed.

>in real life gnostics practice their own brand of gnosticism and don't mix every tradition and similar beliefs in one
Are you sure? You sound like every other person in here saying the other people are wrong. How can anyone be sure you aren't swimming around in your own shit-spew?

If only teh realz gnostics stood up and said something before the IGNORANT FUCK did, people searching for truth wouldn't have as many problems.

But then the best shit is spewn in silence.

>>19182383

I didn't want to, but I am going to agree with them on keeping silent when an idiot appears, as you are expected to learn on your own and then come ask questions, we're the kind that gets seeked, not the kind that seeks proselytes.

>>19182411
>you are expected to learn on your own
There must be an initial lesson. You don't drop an infant on the ground and expect it to come back asking for food. It is stupid and detrimental to allow those in a position of ignorance or worse semi-knowledge to instruct sincere potentiates knowing that it will make proper education twice as hard.

Do you know the story of the piano instructor?

>>19182447
>There must be an initial lesson.

I didn't have one, many more neither, you have the texts that you can purchase or scrounge through the internet, you can read lots of websites, no need to pester the kewl realz gnostics like you say when your only interest is trolling them.

You came here asking for faith, we don't sell it.

File: 1494092680876.jpg (184KB, 679x960px) Image search: [Google]

184KB, 679x960px

Why do women act like fucking psychos when people tell them to go look for themselves? Some want every little thing given to them by hand, and when you dont they think they it's a "gotcha!I knew you were wrong."

You dont come to 4chan for info, you come here AFTER youve got some info and we have discussion.

Feed your own stupid ass.

File: mushroomCross.jpg (914KB, 805x1175px) Image search: [Google]

914KB, 805x1175px

God is WITHIN. God is not an external master who commands you, he is an internal guide who will give you the power your need to bring Truth and Light into this corrupted material world of suffering and deception.

But you won't really get it intuitively unless you take psychedelics.

>>19182464
>I didn't have one
Yes you did, or you wouldn't be alive. The infant remark wasn't an allegory. From the very moment you were born, people were instructing you. And as much as femanon was fagging it up, reading IS an instruction from the author.

> you have the texts that you can purchase or scrounge through the internet, you can read lots of websites
Who made the texts? Who put up the sites? Gnostics WHO DESIRED TO GIVE OUT THE INFORMATION. TEACHERS.
>no need to pester the kewl realz gnostics
More and more I'm seeing there IS a need to pester the real gnostics, but there are none here.

>your only interest is trolling them.
>>19181529
>>19181539
These were the first two posts. These were trolls to a sincere seeker. You have it backwards.

>You came here asking for faith, we don't sell it.
OP came asking for conviction. None has been offered.

>>19182502
This. Psys not the only way though.

>>19181816
yo hermit you a dumb ass tripnigga just stop posting bruv u embarrassing yourself

>>19182522
What are some other ways?

>>19182529
No. Go read.

>>19182516

I'm real, I experimented gnosis already.

I however am pestered by an idiot who comes here and changes the target of his intentions every time he's called out on his bullshit and every time somebody actually tries to answer his initial question, how would we have someone believe in gnosticism vs other religion, I already gave my 3 cents and that's 3 cents wasted.

>>19182533
Dude, I'm not OP. I've read quite a bit into Gnosticism. I am a Gnostic. I didn't really get it until taking large doses of psychedelics. The scriptures were enlightening, but not nearly as much so as acid, shroom and DMT trips. I was just asking if other Gnostics here had other techniques that worked from them.

>>19182555
>I've read quite a bit into Gnosticism.
You clearly haven't if you say something as silly as "I am a Gnostic."

>>19182195
I'll check it out

>>19182562
Stop gatekeeping you fucking archon.

>>19181512
>ITT: educated yourself shitlord
This thread sucks, guys

>>19182543
>I experimented gnosis already.
>experimented

Me too, dude, I take like three gnosises a week now. Doesn't even phase me anymore.

>>19182567
Ha! He wishes to be one.
>>19182523
Annoying cunt following me... KYS

This thread went from 0 to "full Down syndrome" in like 20 minutes.

>>19182529
Well every method of shamanic ecstasy. Prolonged light deprivation, sensory deprivation, sleep deprivation, extreme heat/cold exhaustion/dancing, breathing methods, sound, advanced meditation, dreaming. Largely about endogenous psychedelics. All those require skill, so aren't as practical as psychedelics in case of going it alone. I'm not saying these methods are superior or in any way more natural as many do. In fact I prefer psychedelics. But I dabble in the other ways too. There's more.

>>19182172
There are multiple sects within gnosticism. So it's nothing really new.

>>19182591
Good list!

>>19182595
No there isn't. There's Gnosis, and there's a bunch of wrong gnosticism and ignorant fucks. Stop spreading lies.

>>19182603
You sound like an orthodox Christian.

File: 708d9300f2fea7b616afb429e7e3fe88.jpg (589KB, 1280x800px) Image search: [Google]

589KB, 1280x800px

>>19182567
Alot of insult's in this thread.
How interesting you realize
Your really just insulting
Yourself?

>>19182613

Reality isn't schizophrenic, there's one truth and then the lies.

>>19182623
Please describe to me the truth. I must have been lied to.

>>19182632
>Please describe to me the truth.
No. Go read.

>I must have been lied to.
Obviously.

>>19182637
Are u the Femanon or some other faggoli?

>>19182643
We're all some other faggoli, faggot. But no, I'm no femanon.

>>19182579
trust me, no one wants to follow yo ugly ass. you new as fuck

>>19182658
Well I mean. I feel like I've found gnosis. And everything I have mentioned I found in the gospel of Judas Thomas. So I don't see what I'm saying that is based on lies.

>>19182599
Thanks as I said there's more. Carl Jung got his spark by active imagination/daydreaming. Just seeing how deep the rabbit hole goes. Then there's messed up ways like starving/fasting, dehydration, pain (bullet ant initiation for ex.). None of the ways are easy.

Dennis McKenna is pretty excited about this dude who built a machine to induce DMT experiences. It's supposed to work by shooting light at your eyes in certain fast patterns, kind of like epilepsy inducing light. Dennis says it's legit.

>>19182669
I don't want followers, moron.
Leave me alone.
>P.S: I was already here for years. I just started to use a name, faggot. Because it's easy to insult behind a anonymous tag innit? KYS, fucking cancer-like Soul.

>>19182674
>I feel like I've found gnosis.
>gospel of Judas Thomas
Really? Wow. OK. No wonder that's what you think on Gnosticism.

>>19181549
Pretty much. With a God like this, who needs Satan?

>>19182695
Is there a problem?

>>19182695
Is there a problem? It's the word of Jesus and his teachings. That his twin brother brought to Syria,

>>19182700
Not for me.

>>19182632

As I said, a pretty correct text is the hypostasis of the archons.

File: 1494885255066.jpg (90KB, 526x701px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 526x701px

>>19181789
>tfw never grew up in a gnostic household

What sect, if any, might I ask?

>>19182741
He wouldn't know. His grammy never answered any questions.

>>19182749
>His grammy

Well, while being rewarded a grammy is a musical hit on its own, they do not talk.

>>19182741
Would you believe me if my family used to follow a weird way of the Basilidians?
I say used to because most of the youngest generation(mine) don't believe in this and the older ones are rapidly dying because old age and other stuff.

>>19182764
>a musical hit on its own
It really isn't. I'd rather have the thin veneer of gold on the statue than the statue itself.

>>19182036
From my understanding YHWH and Yaldabaoth are considered the same.

File: dycvGHB7jdYnk93YzT9heuW4_nI=.gif (2MB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 480x360px

>>19182773
Not even the little amount of gold in the statue is worth.
Grammys are truly worthless

>>19182782
That gif cuts out the best part. Stupid size limit.

>"Hey, don't throw your trash down here!"
>Grammy tossed back up, hits Homer

>>19182788
Yeah, Ik.
Shit happens.

>ITT: A B8 OP and a bunch of /fringe/ LE DEMIURGE ARCHONS memers

>>19181881
so, why the true god doesn't manifest himself like the demiurge? does he care about us?

>>19182346
>a bullet to the temple

Are you saying we should kill Jews?

>>19181881
Most Gnostics don't/didn't consider the Demiurge to be ebull. At most, perhaps indifferent, but this whole "EBUL DEMIURGE" thing we see people memeing all over is mostly a result of the semi-literacy of a bunch of /fringechan/ refugees.

what's all this stuff about?

>>19182834
If you ask, that means you shouldn't be told.

>>19182779
Well there is one idiot on here who thinks Yahweh is the Monad. He crossposts on other boards about flat earth a lot.

>>19182842
I mean, whats the point of gnosticism considering that stuff from christianism is found in prior religions/cults?

>>19182895
Not to mention that pre-Gnostic theology contradicts almost every concept they put forth. So they just try to ignore the existence of anything predating their anti demiurge battle books.

>>19183179
Not every Gnostic cult are Anti-Demiurge

>>19183189
Just the /fringe/ one, mostly. And we all know how legit they are. Most of them, when asked, say " don't need to refer to some old book! Gnosticism is about receiving gnosis directly from god!" as if centuries of historical precedent are irrelevant to the very fact that they call themselves "Gnostic"

>>19181512
gnosticism is merely a cover for satanism. i actually have a shred more respect for outright satanists, because at least they can admit they worship the devil.

nevertheless, heresy is heresy.

>>19183211
This is completely false.
>>19183197
Gotta agree with you.

>>19183211
Have you even read *one* gnostic text before you formed this opinion? What are you basing it on? What people on 4chan say gnosticism is?

>>19183223
The guy said "mostly"

>>19183211
your "God" is the devil
any form of worship to it is ignorance
as is worship of the Devil in the LaVeyan perspective

>>19183197
>receiving gnosis directly from god!
Yes receiving knowledge from a god is central to my practice.

The knowledge and understanding that I receive differs greatly from the soul trap escapism presented by Gnosticism.

>>19183211
>mfw gnostics worship jesus christ and yahweh according to their gospels
>mfw jesus christ was a heretic to the established religious order
>mfw gnostics are heretics to the roman pagan (catholic) church

really activates my almonds

Let's presume there is a God, based on the harmony and order of the universe.
What would this God's plan be?
A plan involving mysticism makes the most sense when fully interpreted, more so than other religions.

>>19183265
>receiving knowledge from a god is central

That's probably a good thing, provided you don't assume every 'sign' or 'message' you get IS from god, and that you either
A: Don't ignore centuries of established theology, of
B: Don't claim to be a Gnostic

because One can claim to be Catholic all they want, but if they don't subscribe to the bible or Catholic tradition, they are not. gnosticism is no different in that respect

>>19183275
>harmony and order
Is not something we have an abundance of at the moment, do we?

>>19183258
>worship of the Devil in the LaVeyan perspective
Sincerely hope this is b8 and you are only *pretending* to be retarded

>>19183226
No, he said:
>gnosticism is merely a cover for satanism
>"merely"

>>19183297
Oh, I read the upper post instead. Just fml alright.

>>19183302
Hehe it seemed like maybe we were referring to different posts, but wanted to clear it up regardless.

>>19182676
>machine to induce DMT experiences

Holy shit!

>>19183197
>>19183265

The scriptures are tools for understanding and utilizing the revelations that are gleaned while in a trance state.

>>19183284
>That's probably a good thing, provided you don't assume every 'sign' or 'message' you get IS from god
You should try this approach regarding our purported state of spiritual imprisonment.

>Catholic
>Bible
I rarely have need to reference the "bible" and am not a christian.

>>19183327
>The scriptures are tools for understanding and utilizing the revelations

Yes they DICTATE the meaning of these visions in order to maintain doctrine.

>>19183342
That's not how I use them.

Amazing how this thread contains almost no relevant information or good discussion.

Neck yourselves

>>19183346
The you're just doing a hodge-podge of spiritual praxes and slapping the title "Gnosticism" on it, more or less.

>>19183351
It's a fucking b8 thread.
>Convince me that (thing I don't believe) is better than (Thing i do believe).

Absolutely retarded.

>>19183352
Can't I be a Gnostic among other things? I'm a Gnostic in that I think God is internal and that I can receive wisdom from him through the Logos. I also think that the material world is corrupted by that it can be saved.

>>19183371
Dunno, what do you suppose the precedence is for belonging to more than one religion with conflicting cosmologies/ideologies?

>>19183346
>That's not how I use them.
Then I am curious. You can skip over the cursory material and skip to the mechanics. Where do they come from and how do you use them?

>>19183375
They are the interpretations Gnosis by those who have experienced Gnosis. Gnosis is like a movie, it's information beamed to your directly from God, who is not an external master but rather an internal guide. After watching a movie, especially an incredibly complex and deep one, it is only natural to want to compare you experience with others. Hence the scriptures. As a Gnostic you should ALSO be writing your OWN scriptures, your OWN interpretation of Gnosis, so that others can better understand.

>>19183373
I don't think any of my beliefs conflict. I think there is wisdom to be found in almost all spiritual traditions. I do not believe that the only people to have ever experienced Gnosis is people in the Near East 2000 years ago.

>>19183387
Literally where are you getting this from? What gnostic texts, specifically?

>>19183390
There is a difference between "experiencing nosis" and "Being a Gnostic." A distinction which you obviously don't understand even a LITTLE.

>>19183391
'Tis my Gnosis, my friend!

[spoiler]Archon gatekeeper detected.[/spoiler]

>>19183394
Indeed, I don't. What exactly is the difference. And why are you so hung up on this difference?

>>19183398
Gnosticism (n.)
a prominent heretical movement of the 2nd-century Christian Church, partly of pre-Christian origin. Gnostic doctrine taught that the world was created and ruled by a lesser divinity, the demiurge, and that Christ was an emissary of the remote supreme divine being, esoteric knowledge (gnosis) of whom enabled the redemption of the human spirit.

Gnosis (n)
The Knowledge of spiritual mysteries.


It's like calling Thelemites Christian because they partake in a form of the Mass.

>>19183407
Anyone who is inspired by the life of Jesus and tries to live by his teachings is a Christian.

>>19183395
Your idea of what gnosticism is is so profoundly twisted it is sad. The whole point is, what the fuck is your reference point for calling yourself "a Gnostic" if you haven't read any of their texts? And this is about more than "partaking in gnosis" because you reference things like Archons and the Demi-Urge with abandon, and without reference to or knowledge of the very doctrine from which they came! Do you see why this is annoying to some people, and makes you look dumb as hell?

>>19183395
>Archon gatekeeper detected

You actually believe you are speaking with an actual Galla on x?

Interesting...

This may explain the curse happy nature of gnostics.

>>19183407
So what would you call someone who has knowledge of spiritual mysteries?

>>19183410
Christian (n.) a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.

this means ALL his teachings, not "the ones that seem appealing"

>>19183416
>f you haven't read any of their texts?

I have. I just don't treat any of them as Dogma, nor should any true gnostic. Text is material. Text can deceive. The true knowledge/gnosis is received directly from God while in a trance state. The scriptures are tools to aid in interpretation.

>>19183424
Depends on what system they subscribe to. Temple of Set initiates experience gnosis (literally Satanists). Thelemites experience gnosis (it's worth noting that OTO is an actual Gnostic organization). G.'.D.'. initiates experience gnosis. People who don't belong to any system experience gnosis too. We call them, "people."

>>19183321
Yeah pretty amazing. A few people working on stuff like that. This guy happens to be some expat living in Thailand that runs some alternative medicine clinic. He even sells those things for about 3k $. Dennis said the process takes a while to get into, and he didn't do it long enough to really get how well this works, but he said what he experienced was very DMT-like.

Makes sense to me that it would work. Mescaline & Salvia cause this effect of muscle spasms in the eye, that kind of feel as if your eyelids are folding, while white lights get shot at you every few seconds. It's the same with drumming & other techniques.

>>19183371
Yes you can.

Imho the people in this thread are too obsessed with texts. Experience is where it's at.

>>19183426
1) I can define and use words however I like
2) How could we possibly know ALL his teachings. We recently discovered a huge amount of previously unknown teachings in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Your definition is absurd because no one would be a christian except for Jesus himself, then.

>>19183433
>We call them, "people."

What a terribly broad definition. Surely you're trolling?

>>19183434
>obsessed with adhering to the doctrine of the very sect they claim to represent/belong to, instead of just making shit up as they go along because "MUH TRANCE STATE" which literally every spiritual system worth its salt utilizes, by the way.

Yeah, just a little.

>>19183441
>which literally every spiritual system worth its salt utilizes, by the way.

In most spiritual systems if you receive a revelation while in a trance state that conflicts with the dogma then it's ignored, while Gnosticism claims those revelations are direct messages from God and therefore trump any Earthly dogma.

>>19183448
>Gnosticism claims ALL 'messages' received in a trance state are directly from god

[CITATION MISSING]

>In most spiritual systems if you receive a revelation while in a trance state that conflicts with the dogma then it's ignored

[CITATION MISSING]

it pretty much comes down to *where* the message is believed to have come from, more than the contents themselves.

>>19183470
Now I'm really starting to think you're just insecure because you've never actually experienced Gnosis/revelation. It is an undeniable, transcended experience of being filled with profound wisdom. Gnosticism is a spiritual tradition that arose to facilitate and interpret these experiences. But people were receiving Gnosis long before anyone ever called themselves a Gnostic.

>>19183448
None of these approaches are correct imho. Dogma really is the core of the issue here. Things are never true just because are. They are true for now, to you. And that's how it should be. Being flexible with knowledge/belief is how progress gets made.

>>19183490
>Things are never true just because are.

I'm pretty sure the core idea of Gnosticism is that some things are so eternally true that they exist even outside of the material universe, and that we can learn these truths via gnosis while in trance states.

>>19183480
>I'm really starting to think you're just insecure because you've never actually experienced Gnosis/revelation

I believe in one secret and ineffable LORD; and in one Star in the Company of Stars of whose fire we are created, and to which we shall return; and in one Father of Life, Mystery of Mystery, in His name CHAOS, the sole viceregent of the Sun upon the Earth; and in one Air the nourisher of all that breathes. And I believe in one Earth, the Mother of us all, and in one Womb wherein all men are begotten, and wherein they shall rest, Mystery of Mystery, in Her name BABALON. And I believe in the Serpent and the Lion, Mystery of Mystery, in His name BAPHOMET. And I believe in one Gnostic and Catholic Church of Light, Life, Love and Liberty, the Word of whose Law is THELÊMA. And I believe in the communion of Saints. And, forasmuch as meat and drink are transmuted in us daily into spiritual substance, I believe in the Miracle of the Mass. And I confess one Baptism of Wisdom whereby we accomplish the Miracle of Incarnation. And I confess my life one, individual, and eternal that was, and is, and is to come. AUMGN. AUMGN. AUMGN.

Have you partaken in the Gnostic mass recently? Or perhaps evoked the Archons? Because the main thing is, people who actual practice gnosticism, instead of preaching stale memes on the internet, get tired of people saying "I can define any word any way I want to" and "This is Gnostic because I SAY SO! Wah!"

>>19183501
Religions have three (maybe four) layers, in my opinion:

1) Core teachings/insights
2) Scriptures
3) Practice

4) organizational structure


I think that it's fair to say I'm a Gnostic even if I focus mostly on the core idea and less of the scriptures, and not at all on the OTO's practice (I feel the OTO is a shitty cult desu)

Ok so I only recently got interested in that stuff and from what I've gathered the basics are these:

>the reality we live in is a material false one, a "hell" as someone would describe it
>this reality was created by the Demiurge, a creature of omnipotent power that religions have portrayed with many different forms and names such a YHWH, Krishna, etc
>however, the Demiurge is a false God. While he thinks that he is the one and almighty one, he is actually just a
faulty byproduct of the Real God which exists outside the boundaries of our physical false world, in the (spiritual?) real world
>the Real God either exists within the real world or is himself the real world, I haven't understood that part yet.
>what gnostics strive for is for when death comes for their spirit to be released from the false world. This can be done through many means, the most important being Gnosis
>Gnosis is (at least from what I've understood) basically unlocking the reflection of god that exists within your subconscious/psyche, thus seeing and understanding the world from a more clear perspective

Again I wanna learn all about Gnosticism so please correct me if I have greentexted anything wrong

>>19183510
Oh, in between layers one and two there's a layer of symbology and iconography and idolatry.

>>19183510
> I feel the OTO is a shitty cult desu

From the guy who thinks "gnosis" makes one a "Gnostic." never change, ass-postchan

>>19183499
That's correct, but there is no way getting around perspective. You can only look at things through the lense of your own perception. And what some other anon hinted at is really important too. Where does that gnosis originate from? The fact of the matter is, it's an ocean out there. And just because something is beyond human understanding, that's no guarantee that you're not being lied too and that something got an agenda of its own.

>>19183516
>You can only look at things through the lense of your own perception.

Normally that's true but not while in trance states.

>>19183510

OTO is really just a more esoteric version of Masonry. In fact, Masonry USED to be wayy more esoteric but it sounds like a lot of lodges mostly just do fundraisers and dinners now.

>>19183516
*does not got an agenda

>>19183522
Perhaps it was just my local chapter that struck me as a bunch of grown up Hot Topic kids.

>>19183521
You can fiddle with it, but ultimately you're still stuck in your current paradigm until you die. Yes egodeath etc are helpful, but still. Your body facilitates the experience.

>>19183525
Yeah unfortunately you will see a lot of that. It largely depends on location, some lodges will have middle aged and senior citizens with a smattering of young folk, some are made up of
>2edgy4u
Fags who meet the bare minimum requirements. I don't care for the current OHO either.

>>19183528
>Your body facilitates the experience.

Gnostics posit that the revelatory experience transcends material reality, but I take your point. Philosophically it doesn't seem possible to prove or disprove material reductionism or dualism.

>>19183531
>Gnostics posit that the revelatory experience transcends material reality

Not saying it doesn't, in fact I'm quite sure that's the case. But sure it feels like acting as pure awareness. But during the experience, your heart still beats & you breathe. The limitations inherent by your vessel are still in place. So yeah, a dead end. We'll all find out soon enough though.

Anyone else enjoying this insecure femanon? Holy projection!

>>19183560
Not really sure to whom you're referring

>>19183568
>another reason tripfags are essential to effective communication during these discussions.

>>19183568
Surprise! It's you!

>>19183982
What are you even talking about, again?
>insecure femanon
>projection
We're asking you to point out to whom you are referring, but apparently your autism will not compute.

>>19183994
I think the Archons are to blame!

>>19184333
Surprise! The femanon IS an archon!

>>19184345
Now I am interested. Which Archon are we talking about here?

>>19184345
>the person (who the anon STILL has yet to specify) who somehow hurt their feelies MUST be a woman

Who hurt you, anon? Tell us about your relationship with your mother?

File: yes-this-pleases-gaga.jpg (31KB, 386x363px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 386x363px

>tfw you woke up and decided to troll a gnostic thread, and after three movies and a Civ game it's STILL filled with "gnostics" yelling at each other

>>19184360
I think they're still hung up on when I lied about not being a man.
>>19181973
Wayyyy back here...shit, that was 8 hours ago. Hilarious. Never change /x/.

>>19184360
She was an abusing manipulator like most women. Women, because they are so frail and cannot survive on their own, are masters at seducing men into caring for them and therefore abandoning the spiritual path. Because they give birth, they are much more attached to the material world of the demiurge and his archons.

>>19184419
Hahahaha. Your unbalanced mind gives me great pleasure due to laughter.

Gnosticism, not even once (c)(r)

>>19184429
Hahaha. Your bizarre phrasing makes me even more certain that you are an archon, an inorganic extraterrestrial!

>>19184455
That would make you half inorganic extraterrestrial.

>>19184462
Holy shit are you my mother!?

>>19184419
All joking aside, anyone who actually thinks like this should see a therapist ASAP before they schiz out and kill a bunch of people because of their persecution complex.

>>19184485
Naw, just a brother you likely hate and blame your problems on.

>>19184496
no u

I'm a pacifist, in fact.

>>19184496
Like SJW's?

>>19184504
Actually since discovering the spiritual path my life has been pretty sweet!

>>19184509
Not sure how that's relevant to the conversation. We know it's hard to stay on topic with such a severe case of ADHD and autism, but please try.

Yes, a persecution complex LIKE MUH SJW's. Also very much like /pol/smokers.

>>19184521
What about /leftypol/ ?

>>19184521
Pointing out SJW nuttiness is always relevant in these trying times, anon.

>>19184532
Never been there. Probably. Try to stay on topic. take an extra dose of meds if necessary.

>>19184521
How can you be a Gnostic and not have a persecution complex? Isn't the idea that the entire material universe is an ingenious trap designed by the Demiurge and operated by the archons?

>>19184537
Not when you're probably just as much of a little bitch about things as they are, only with opposing stances. /pol/ is literally "SJW with a reversed belief system"

>>19184553
No, and we covered that that is a meme several times already.

>>19184543
By "meds" I hope you mean LSD or shrooms or DMT, or at least cannabis!

>>19184558
Aren't all religious ideas memes?

>>19184554
I'm an anarcho-communist, and a pacifist.

>>19184521
>triggered
Archons are working with russian spies better go shoot at more people you disagree with lololololol

>>19183211
>ways to worship the devil

Pretty much everything

>way to worship God

We're still working on that one

File: Johnny.jpg (12KB, 310x163px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 310x163px

>>19183284
Why would you want to be Catholic? Its literally wrong.

>>19181512
Gno one convinces you to become Gnostic. Once you're ready to achieve gnosis, you just gnow.

>>19184410
>that image

>>>/r/spoopylarpingfaggots

>>19183284
Would it make you feel better if we called what everyone here is referring to as "Gnosticism", "Neognosticism" instead?

This thread is a great example why I wouldn't call myself gnostic although I'm very much into it. So many unbalanced individuals that have been burned by Christianity or nihilists that fail to see the beauty in this world, yet think they have it all figured out.

BTT: I've read the chapter about the numbers 7 & 9 in the book Shamanism by Mircea Eliade yesterday. Seems like Central Asian & Siberian shamans commonly refer to 7 or 9 'Sons of God'. Curious connection to the Archons imho.

>>19186448
>fail to see the beauty in this world

I see beauty in every child with cancer.

>but if you selectively close your eyes

>>19184410
"Nobody" noticed and thus you were ignored from the beginning and we started having idiocies because of other idiots.

>>19184410
You were caught early.

>>19182464

>>19186514
Not same poster but your nihilism is showing. The physical plane has an infinite capacity for good or evil, beauty and horror. It's the people living on earth who have skewed this perception one way or the other

For instance we've cured many cancers but the greedy medical institutions (mainly big pharma) repress total cures for the sake of $$$.

If you're so certain of your place in the universe and hate this plane so much, off yourself. There's clearly nothing left for you here if you have all the answers and spend your time posting on 4chan

File: 1497952808619.png (313KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

313KB, 400x400px

what a bullshit thread

>>19186558

>Kill yourself

Ah here's the lovely part of this world

>>19186589
So wise and intelligent you are, can't even glance when an internet poster is being facetious <333

>>19186589
You meant your world. I'm enjoying myself here, thanks very much.

>>19186594

Maybe I suck because your world sucks.

>>19181512
My will isn't strong enough to uphold the principles of the Gnostic faith- I have however complete faith in the Gnostic world view and believe that a union with God is possible through gnosis

I won't be able to convince you that it's the truth
I can't even convince myself

I can only recognize the importance of the concious, the indications of life and how it relates to and reflects our matterial existence.

It is my strong conviction that the world was made to host the soul,
I choose to be distrustful of it's intentions

>>19186514
>>19186550
>these damage control, insecure lies

Yes, feed me your tears. The best part is people think that calling out a troll somehow makes them win, when all it does is make them MORE pathetic. You KNOW you're being trolled - yet you kept responding. Over and over so that eight hours later you were STILL bitching about the "femanon."

Dance on my strings, archons.

>>19187558
>Gnostic
>faith
>I can't even convince myself
You already fucked up

>>19187670

>>19183501
>Because the main thing is, people who actual practice gnosticism, instead of preaching stale memes on the internet, get tired of people saying "I can define any word any way I want to" and "This is Gnostic because I SAY SO! Wah!"

>>19187687
Gnosticism has little to nothing to do with faith depending on what "flavor" of Gnosticism is being discussed. Gnostic implies knowledge, not faith. Why bother talking about Gnosticism if you don't even know what the word means?

File: Capture2.png (7KB, 581x193px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 581x193px

>>19187687
>>19187703
Pic related

>>19187703

>>19182131
>Ah yes, you have the wrong gnosticism and the wrong reality, neither does physical reality last eternally, nor does humanity nor were we expected to fail miserably constantly.


>>19181881
>It's about what you believe, if you believe gnosticism is true, you'll want to be a gnostic, I can help you with that.

>>19187708
There is the adjective, and there is the proper noun. Typically someone claiming to be "Gnostic" or talking about "Gnosticism" is not referring to the adjectival from. But again,

> get tired of people saying "I can define any word any way I want to"

>>19187726
>I get tired of people saying "I can define any word any way I want to"
>but if I want to embrace a definition of a word that's wholly divorced from the definition originally given to it in it's language (or even the definition the majority of people would give it), then you should respect that
gotta love /x/. Enjoy your oxymoron of having "faith in knowledge" lol.

>>19187737
You are addressing two different people. I never said anything about faith.

>>19187746
I addressed one person, and that's because they were being stupid. I take it that person was you since you got so defensive.

>>19187746
>>19187746
>You are addressing two different people. I never said anything about faith.
Oh, sorry. My point stands in regards to the person I was initially replying to
>>19187749
Shut the fuck up, you're not me.

>>19187754
'sall good.
>>19187749
is the person who has been trolling the thread for the past couple days. They seem like they might be a breddy gud guy except for the fact that they literally said they "woke up and decided to troll a thread." They have said many times how it only takes a few minutes and they *totally* have a real life, but they seem to be spending an awful lot of time here. Must be a sad way to go thru life.

>>19187771
Whether demiurge or monad, I have created the realm you inhabit.

>>19182344
Checked
>>19182825
Calm down, rabbi. Not everything is about you.

>>19187670
Im not a Gnostic
my belief in its world view is limited to faith

>>19187841
>I have created the realm you inhabit.
and you are?

File: TomMontalk.jpg (120KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 1024x768px

When we say "Gnosticism" we can mean one of three things:

The specific theologies that developed in the Near East about 2000 years ago, like Valentinianism.

The Gnostic revival movement of Aleister Crowley, and his Gnostic Church, the Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO).

Neognostics that usually define the Archons as aliens, like Tom Montalk and Philip K. Dick and people on /fringe/


== What is Gnosis? ==

Ideally, Gnosis is enlightened knowledge, that which is given through inspiration and revelation from within and above. It deals with the ultimate truth of who we are, why we are here, where we are going, and what “this” is all about. It deals with the biggest questions and mysteries of our existence. That is what this section is about.

Gnosticism has always been around, but the Christian form of it blossomed in the early part of the first millennium. The latter is what we conventionally think of as “Gnosticism”, which is the set of beliefs of the early Christian Gnostics according to the scriptures and artifacts they and their critics left behind. But these are just the dried husks left behind.

It’s paradoxical to call oneself a Gnostic nowadays solely by being able to regurgitate these writings, because Gnosis is about direct “inside” information on the Truth through inspiration and revelation. I would add dreams and synchronistic guidance to that as well. It’s about direct access to the higher reality outside this Matrix Control System, to catch glimpses of what’s really going on here....

http://montalk.net/gnosis

>>19188464
If you don't know, you shouldn't be told.

>>19189968
This is all wrong. This is the problem with Gnosticism on /x/. No one knows what the fuck they are talking about. They're just regurgitating false history.

>>19188464

It's basically a dumb semantic pronoun game about how the basic quality of awareness is (likely) the same for all humans or even life throughout the universe. The "created" part is a reference to how there is something instead of nothing, and therefore something is (likely) emitted from nothing, and this nothing has/is the property of your awareness. [See also: Shiva.]

>>19189968

Gnosticism is about awareness emanating to us from the divine. It has little/nothing to do with the OTO. The sense in which anyone ever means the word is the sense in which this awareness is a quality of Sophia, the Aeon of Wisdom who emanated the demiurge in some sort of "mistake" and placed awareness in/coaxed it out of a physical reality which is otherwise blind to it. There's also frequently something in there about a spiritual Christ being Sophia's consort in the Pleroma and bringing salvation/correction to her flawed creation.

The basic principle in gnosticism, and really in every mystic tradition, is that of emanation. The idea of gnosticism is that sapience emanated from a higher realm and if you engage in the proper meditative and philosophical practices you can peel layers away from this awareness and understand more about the divine.

Would that really have been so hard to explain, any of you fuckheads?

>>19181512
gnostics believe they have hidden knowledge, disseminate this knowledge as a result of some activation being reached, and this knowledge dies with those who receive it until the cycle repeats with similar knowledge and different people.

it's like zen buddhism, but based in the constructed collective instead of the individual.

>>19190937
>It's basically a dumb semantic pronoun game about how the basic quality of awareness is (likely) the same for all humans or even life throughout the universe. The "created" part is a reference to how there is something instead of nothing, and therefore something is (likely) emitted from nothing, and this nothing has/is the property of your awareness. [See also: Shiva.]

The Emperor's Neo-Gnosticism. You pulled all of this out your ass. My post meant none of that.

>>19187703
Your "knowledge" is faith
this is just arguing semantics

Maybe you should tell us how you define knowledge instead

File: 61vJSHauMNL._SX343_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg (78KB, 345x499px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 345x499px

check out this book if you can op

>>19181789
>fifth-generation gnostic
bull-fucking-shit

>>19190360
Archon gatekeeper detected!

>>19191335
"Faith" implies doubt. you have to work to be faithful, to "keep the faith".

Knowledge, or Gnosis, is self evident, undeniable once it is realized.

ill do yall a favor, seeing as almost 300 posts later no one has said much of substance. i might echo what others have said but whatever.

you want to read about gnostic stuff? pick up the nag hammadi library. it's pretty big, has all the writings from nag hammadi, and it'll give you a good starting point to this stuff. that's primary sources. you want a secondary source? gnosis by kurt rudolph. arguably the tightest nigga when it comes to gnostic studies. read those two books and youll be miles ahead of most of the fuckers in this thread. once you read those, youll know what kind of gnostic stuff you lean towards, and youll know where to go from there. asking "gnostics" on /x/ about gnosticism is lazy and retarded, as can be shown from this low quality thread. youre fucking welcome.

>>19192046
>undeniable once it is realized
yes...once it is realized. this parallels indic religions like shaivism and even buddhism: faith can be an important component to the practice, but it is not a blind faith, and as you progress along the path, the self-proving science of mysticism will chip away at the faith (as it becomes useless), until you attain the goal, after which both faith and the path become useless. in shaivism, it is said that once you reach the goal, the methods you used to get there become redundant. as the buddha says, pick up the path, use it, and discard it once its use has been served.

but until you get to that point, faith can be a powerful motivator, just as long as it is not a blind faith (a la christfaggism)

File: 37c1e8b9-80ae-4a5c-815c-a28defee1127..jpg (85KB, 960x717px) Image search: [Google]

85KB, 960x717px

>>19181862
>already read wiki, understands full concept of being gnostic
>needs motivation why Gnostic is better than Christianity or atheism.
TLDR: OP's asking to start a flame war

File: Ayahuasca.png (345KB, 675x350px) Image search: [Google]

345KB, 675x350px

>>19192049
Actually, the best way to achieve Gnosis isn't by reading, but rather by taking heroic doses of psychedelics like DMT, Psilocybin, LSD, Iboga and Ayahuasca.

>>19192083
>why Gnostic is better than Christianity

Jesus was a Gnostic.

Alan Watts - Jesus, His Religion
https://youtu.be/s42V8BGBvTk

>>19192102
sigh. maybe if you already knew something about something. if you take an ignorant person and give them ayahuasca or something else, it's akin to throwing a baby in the middle of the ocean and expecting it to learn how to swim.

nowhere did i say that gnosis is achieved by reading. but then again you've probably taken so many drugs by now that your brain's probably fried. how's that gnosis working out for you?

muh psychedelics, muh enlightenment. they can be a good pointer towards the path, but to say that you can take a psychedelic and experience gnosis is beyond ignorant and wrong, it's downright harmful, because it often allows delusional people to think they've reached the goal, at which point they stop striving for true gnosis. it's like removing one veil of ignorance in favour of another.

>>19192102
See, don't even bother.

>>19192133
>it's akin to throwing a baby in the middle of the ocean and expecting it to learn how to swim.

Which tends to work pretty well.

>>19192133
Tibetan monks would go into a cave for 30 or 40 days and fast and be completely sensory deprived while meditating until what....their brain produced enough DMT for whatever you want to interpret it for; gnodis, enlightenment. You should actually be knowledgeable and also try DMT before sperging out bud.
>fried brain
What are you some sort troglodyte?

>>19192184
>fried brain
>What are you some sort troglodyte?

Coward is the impression I've got.

>>19192184
>Tibetan monks
with extensive training in all sorts of meditation techniques and philosophical understanding

ive done all of the psychs on your list other than iboga, multiple times, at varying doses, including extremely large ones. ive taken ayahuasca in the forests of peru under the guidance of native shamans. dont talk down to me about psychedelics.

and yeah, fried brain. ive met plenty of psychonauts with "dead-eye", with brains that seem so fried that they're worse off now than they were before they started their psychedelic journey.

by all means, go take another hit of acid and tell me how your gnosis goes. but the fact that you come back to this reality and very little is changed is testament to the fact that your "gnosis" is a shortlived hack.

>>19192184
>>19192200
Arrogant shitposters with personality defects...boy you guys sure are enlightened! Tell us more about gnosis, I'm sure we'll all benefit, if not for some lulz.

>>19192204
>>19192208
You're projecting mate. Still getting the impression that with 'multiple times' you mean twice each, just to be able to say you did it.

Why don't you just look up if what you said is true? Psilocybin & Harmala alkaloids cause neurogenesis. Studies done on Santo Daime people showed that they've got elevated levels of baseline neurotransmitters. Your brain might not be fried, but surely would look like swiss cheese compared to the neuron densitiy of regular practitioners.

>>19181512
A gnostic would convince no one of anything. Your choice pal

>>19192204
It's true that we used cultural tools like mantras and scriptures and symbols to interpret the raw information of Gnosis. But without Gnosis, direct revelations from God, those tools are useless.

It's like a car with no gas. It looks pretty and you can see how it would work, but without gas, Gnosis, it ain't going anywhere.

>>19192133
Psychedelics don't "fry" your brain. They are safer than any other sort of psychoactive drug, including and especially alcohol, and even cannabis.

>>19192252
But the question is, are those relevations always from 'God'? Imho healthy suspicion & not taking things at face value is pretty important.
Our own journey & progression should act as evidence that truth is malleable. If we think we are done after achieving gnosis, we stagnate.

Tell me about the basic belief" system please.
As there seem to be many derivatives online..
And this thread seems to be opinion war.

>>19192298
>But the question is, are those revelations always from 'God'?

When the revelations are of a sinister character, it's obvious. When they are divine, when they show us the way towards light, truth, and harmony, it is beyond obvious, it is overwhelmingly beautiful and transcendent.

>If we think we are done after achieving gnosis, we stagnate.

Absolutely! We must keep going back to the well to take long deep drink from the Godhead that sustains us, or else our hearts are vulnerable to corruption!

>>19192309
God is within. He isn't in heaven his is in your heart. The material world is corrupted and it's up to those who know, the Gnostikoi, to redeem it through carful and deliberate action informed by our Gnosis, which we receive while in a trance state, often induced by psychedelics.

>>19192234
>>19192268
i dont believe they "fry your brain", i was mostly just being a little shit. except maybe acid, and probably not even acid (because who knows what youre actually taking, it could be a shitty analog or something else). i know at least six people whove taken acid over 150 times each, and id definitely consider them fried. although it might be the copious amounts of other drugs that theyve taken that did the frying.

the last time i was in peru, i took ayahuasca six times. boy that was something. before that, at least another six times over a period of a few years. and ive taken shrooms more times than i can count. acid maybe twenty times. dmt only like half a dozen (hard to come across where i live). theyre powerful tools, indeed. but they dont give gnosis as a final goal, as i follow traditions that say that when you achieve that gnosis, everything changes completely, and you dont come back to that same state as you were in before, which i cant say about any of the psychs ive taken. yeah, they change you, maybe a bit maybe a lot, but it isnt remotely close to what i envision final gnosis to be.

>>19192320
>it might be the copious amounts of other drugs that theyve taken that did the frying.

It also might be the shitty "drug scene" they were immersed in.

>>19192318
Ah yes heaven and hell as above so below..

>>19192320
>yeah, they change you, maybe a bit maybe a lot, but it isnt remotely close to what i envision final gnosis to be.
>isnt remotely close

Dude you have not taken enough then. Did you experience ego-death? DMT especially is fucking WILD. If that isn't Gnosis than what is? On DMT I feel like I'm in an ancient, timeless and placeless temple among enlightened beings that I can only describe as spirits.

>>19192314
>When the revelations are of a sinister character, it's obvious. When they are divine, when they show us the way towards light, truth, and harmony, it is beyond obvious, it is overwhelmingly beautiful and transcendent.

Hmm I disagree. I've experience deception from things that seemed pretty divine. Also aren't the most vicious humans often those that outwardly seem to be good? How about pedophile priests for example. Or the main religions at large, the gnostic view sees them as worshipping the devil, yet to most people they appear to as forces of good. Or the symbol of the snake, demonized by the main dogma, worshipped as a symbol for wisdom by people that achieved gnosis, gnostic or not. I don't see why that kind of deception shouldn't be present in the realm of gnostic relevation. My experience tells me that's true. So I'm hesitant to believe things just because they come from someplace other.

>>19192362
>yet to most people they appear to as forces of good
Most people have never experience Gnosis, never been in a proper trance state, and have never had heroic doses of psychedelics.

>So I'm hesitant to believe things just because they come from someplace other.
>just because they come from someplace other

It's not that it comes from someplace other it's that the message is so overwhelmingly beautiful and meaningful and resonates so personally that it cannot be denied.

>>19192320
Okay then I'll take back the coward & little experience stuff. Good for you. I know what you mean about some acidheads. Acid is an exception because it causes intense cerebral vasoconstriction at larger than usual doses. Still, these people are a tiny subset of psy users. Yeah psychedelics are not an enlightenment pill, you've got to work on it just as with everything else. Some that took acid at a rave 50 times might be further ahead than the average normie, but some people just don't have the capacity for real growth. The lies in your head can be too comfortable for some people. You might be right about your views about what gnosis is, but it's hard to argue from that point of view since you have to invalidate everyones own experience to justify it. It's the no true scotsman fallacy in action.

>>19192325
very true.
>>19192334
of course ive experienced ego-death. ive felt something very similar on dmt as well. it's beyond wild.

my concept of gnosis steps from the indic traditions i practice. although ive read a lot of gnostic works (aka all of nag hammadi and some secondary sources), they are not as close to my heart as the indic traditions.

i have to go to work otherwise id talk a bit more about it. if youd like to read a little bit about what my traditions say about gnosis, look up moksha or mukti. it is a permanent state of final gnosis, not a fleeting gnosis that many have experienced.

>>19192298
>But the question is, are those relevations always from 'God'?
When a revelation is from God you know it

>>19192409
Yeah, when it's a sinister/malevolent being communicating with you it's fucking terrifying. When it's God or an angel it's the most wonderful feeling.

>>19192400
>you've got to work on it just as with everything else
absolutely. i love meditating on shrooms. might do it again soon. it makes it so much more fruitful. i know folks that take shrooms to look at the colours maaan whoaaa. fuck those people.
>but it's hard to argue from that point of view since you have to invalidate everyones own experience to justify it. It's the no true scotsman fallacy in action.
also true. sadly i have to jet or ill be late for work. keep on exploring the psychedelic landscape of reality, anon. youre doing god's work...literally. haha

>>19192403
Are you saying that while under the influence of the psychedelics you experience Gnosis, but then it fades? Yes, that is the tragedy of the material universe. We are in a spiritual desert and must constantly be seeking new wells to sustain our souls.

>>19192417
>youre doing god's work...literally.

Amen! God is in our hearts! When we follow our hearts we are guided by God!

>>19192415
It feels like Love itself is communicating with you. It feels like Love

>>19192448
Yee! Like pure love being pumped into your heart and overflowing out of your body into the universe.

>>19192455
Well OP this is a good reason to become a Gnostic

>>19192375
Fair enough. But I don't think immunity to deception comes with the territory of gnosis, because proper gnosis is hard to pin down. I hope you guys get where I'm going with this no true scotsman thing, imho the reason why the thread became such a clusterfuck. Everyone wants to be the one to have already achieved gnosis.

>>19192409
>>19192415
>>19192448
>>19192455

I've experienced the real thing of infinite love, and experienced the imitation of that. My point is, the only reason why I can recognize which is which, is because I am able to compare. Without reference, if the first thing you experience isn't real thing, you'd have almost no way of knowing that it's not legit.

And imho there's something nice about entities that don't make a secret out of it that they're evil, they serve a purpose & can be great teachers (about fear for example), and shouldn't be ignored. Those that are pretending to be something they're not, are far more sinister imho.

>>19192403
>>19192417
Agreed, enjoy your day & much love.

>>19181736
the easiest way to tell that someone has never actually read the bible is when they use the tired old "God in the Old Testament was so mean while God in the New Testament is nice so they can't be the same entity" meme

>someone asks for information on gnosticism
>all the gnostics on this board tell him that he's stupid for asking or that they can't help him
>gnosis = knowledge
>the gnostics on this board have no gnosis to impart

loving every laugh, I guess this is what hating on a lion sperm monster 24/7 does to your brain

>>19192874
Oh look, the Femanon troll is back to pretend to be retarded. Seriously why do you keep coming to this thread? You clearly don't understand what's going on. At all.