Occultism & Magick: No good updates yet

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>>19127209
This should go without saying but if you need any more indication that Asenath Mason is a roleplaying fuckwit with hot garbage for books, pic related.

(bump)

>>19127209
Regarding Art of Memory, which books are a must read? Is starting with Frances Yates's book ok?

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I'm obsessed with this guy so I just had to get these books. I've seen you discuss them before in these threads so you may be able to help me. I want to begin on this path, and I believe I'm almost ready. I'm just having trouble finding the will for devotion. Chumbley says to improve one's spirit you must "prepare oneself by prayerful devotion united with the honing of intent."

What are some good ways to improve my devotion practices?

>>19127398
Sure.
I'd jump straight onto the Old Classical train with Cicero's methods.

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>>19127410
Come back when you can do an hour of yoga per day.

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>>19127263
>Asenath Mason
>Qliphothic Meditations
>Become a living e.a.k

Is new age syncretism / neoshamanism completely shit? I've been reading a lot recently about plastic shamans etc and it all seems so wrong.

>>19127461
What, exactly, are you asking is shit?

New Age, Syncretism, and Neo Shamanism could mean anything, or nothing.

>>19127263
Is he the bald dude who blows Koetting?

To the anon in the last thread bitching about me using Ape's dismissal of the Kybalion as a dismissal of Bardon's IIH, I have a challenge for you: compare and contrast the Corpus Hermeticum with Bardon's writings (bonus points for his 'theories' on etheric fluid) in reference to it "being Hermetic." Then, take any series of Masonic, OTO, etc. Intitiatory formulas, and Compare them to IIH, for reference to "being initiatory."

No shitposting, now. Only careful analysis and accurate presentation will be accepted!

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>>19127461

Stringing occult buzzwords together like trailmix often does not adequately communicate what you mean. I might suggest thinking things through in the future before posting, and crafting a post that can readily be understood by people who aren't yourself, if you wish to actually communicate with others, that is.

>>19127544
Anon, do you ONLY pop into these threads to be an asshole to people, now? I thought you were FelisCatus considering the pics, and maybe you are; but if you are, what the fuck crawled up your ass and died?

>>19127461
Most sytems today are syncretized to a point. Syncretism is typically a good thing, but it all depends on wha one is incorporating. New Age is mostly pillow-sitting woo-woo. Send us some descriptions or links about the particular type of "New Age Shaman" you are referencing, and We'll try to help you out.

>>19127565
90 percent of books at "new age" shops are ass but smart hippies always have more esoteric knowledge than I expect them to. If you have a "Pagan community" near you they might have some smart people

>>19127604
I...I know?

reposting from last thread:

Hey guys, first time posting here, I'm a /co/ browser who got interested in Hypercrisis and Grant Morrison, I just picked up the latest issue of Heavy Metal where he pens a quick introduction to "Mag!c" or basically what I assume is Chaos Magic. Is that sort of thing welcome in this thread, or should I go looking elsewhere?

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>>19127604
What's your point, mate?

>>19127638
Morrison's fine, if a bit watered down and removed from context. Not quite as bad as Moore, though, so you're at least ahead of the curve on that angle.

>>19127638
Sure, anonson. Chaos Magick only has a bad reputation because of how many fat, lazy, drug addled "practitioners" it has today, who couldn't do one cycle of pranayama if their lives depended on it.. It started out as, and stills is when practiced by someone competent, a very neat and semi-revolutionary idea.

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>>19127638

If it's related to magic and/or the occult, it's generally welcome. What is it you wanted to talk about in particular?

>>19127565

Core shamanism for example, Or people attempting to pass themselves off as genuine shamans without practising it in the appropriate cultural context?

>>19127653

I can never get over how bitter and generally cantankerous Alan Moore is. Somehow he seems to have a worse outlook on life than fucking Nick Land.

>>19127658

What I found really notable about the editorial (It's not up online yet, sadly) is that it reminds me a lot of the work of 19th century German philosopher (and current meme) Max Stirner. There's an excerpt:

>Mind confers Meaning upon Matter

>Mind is nourished and sustained by the Meaning it assigns to Matter

>Matter is elevated and ennobled to the meaning of Mag!c by the mean Mind ascribes to it

It ties back to Stirner's discussion about how social institutions (religion, property rights, the very notion of society and the state) are just "spooks" of the mind, merely meanings applied by the mind to the physical world. I doubt Stirner would have the slightest bit of interest in Chaos Magic, but the entire field strikes me as one of creation, a field built on the expression and exertion of the will. It's the idea of a system being kind of centered around the self that intrigues me.

Is "Da'ath Apophrasz" A decent motto? or should it not mix language like that?

>>19127762
>should it not mix language like that?
I wouldn't.
Greek, Hebrew, or Latin.
Commit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGwiSqJIrso

>>19127773
Or Enochian, apparently. Thanks.
On another note, for what purpose does one evoke archons?
Also, if I'm not being too intrusive, yesterday I asked you about scrying the Aethyrs, and you mentioned you did some "when you were a kid."...may I ask what you condier to be a "kid?" It's only *partially* to do with determining how impressed I should be ;-)

>>19127785
>On another note, for what purpose does one evoke archons?
Do Star Ruby a few times and youtell me.

>may I ask what you condier to be a "kid?"
I dunno, like fourteen.

>>19127795
That's a rite I really haven't gotten into very much for some reason. Will do. Is that its partial function?

>>19127810
Never mind I actually know the answer to this question, after having thought about it for two seconds. thanks

>>19127810
>Is that its partial function?
>PRO MOU YUNGES [“Before me the Iynges,”] 6
>OPISÔ MOU TELETARChAI [“Behind me the Teletarches,”] 6
>EPI DEXIA SUNOChEIS [“on my right hand the Synoches,”] 6
>EPARISTERA DAIMONES [“on my left hand the Daemones,”] 6

https://books.google.com/books?id=baUMAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA23&dq=iynges+teletarch+synoches&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiP0aTv3bHUAhWByyYKHefjDqoQ6AEIOzAE#v=onepage&q=iynges%20teletarch%20synoches&f=false

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfu4hX1H_-s

To any one doing readings -
Will my sisters wedding go smoothly?

Her initial is R
Scorpio
22 years old

Thanks :)

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>>19127832
>>>/div/

Does anyone know why the Goetia threads always seem to suck? I always want to have a little back and forth with someone, but the only people who seem to post in them are JoS "meditate to evoke" fags, and people who think dreaming about something vaguely resembling a goetic entity is them being contacted. What gives? Maybe just because it's 4chan?

>>19127884
>jay-oh-es strike again
I am beginning to see why people get so upset.

How long have they been doing this?

>>19127902
Apparently for effing ever, according to anyone who has spent any amount of time here. I have only been coming here for about, oh, 7-8 months.

>>19127837
Fuck -_- Thank you

>>19127905
I'm not even pinning this on JoS, but they seem to be the type who always shit up /sum/ or Goetia threads. Every once in a while you can tell it's someone who actually did the rituals and performed an actual evocation, maybe looking to exchange stories (as I have tried to do in the past) but Iassume they get discouraged by the amount of absolute garbage that they get in response. And I don't mean shitposting, I just mean people thinking that just about any form of dream, visualization, or 'random, unexplained' thought qualifies as evocation

>>19127446
>an hour of yoga per day.
magicians didn't practiced yoga back in the XIV century and yet we got the Abramelin work, one of the most important and serious rites out there.

I still don't get this yoga stuff, desu.

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I think the pastebin could use a watch list of known trolls.

This would cut down on much of the conflict in this thread.

Just saying...

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>>19127884

It's not just 4chan, it's everywhere, including real life. In my experiences, around 95% of the people you will meet with an interest in working with entities (Goetic or otherwise) are either ignorant or incompetent. This is mostly because the majority of those who do have a clue won't talk to people due to being sick of dealing with the aforementioned ignorant/incompetent people.

>>19127905
/fringe/ was taken over a jos type around the new year so they've been making moves on /x/

>>19127925
>I still don't get this yoga stuff, desu.
You should give it a try, anon.

You already own everything required to get started.

>>19127930
Anonymous would be #1 on that list.

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>>19127925
>magicians didn't practiced yoga back in the XIV century
K.
Chumbley did.
Also Sufism and Kaula.

Get to Work.

>>19127925
It depends on where you are talking about. Yoga has been practiced for centuries, perhaps millennia.

Even if we're talking about Christian monks or something, they still engaged in rigorous prayer, penances, fasting, devotions, sacrifices, deprivation of pleasure, and a lot of other practices that would fall under the general category of "yoga" even if they weren't utilizing eastern practices, per se

>>19127925
http://www.the-equinox.org/vol1/no2/eqi02016.html

>>19127918
>I just mean people thinking that just about any form of dream, visualization, or 'random, unexplained' thought qualifies as evocation

Like teenage goth girls embracing their inner realm of infinite darkness?
>Goodness mildly triggered myself just typing that.

Folks, I decided to run thru The Bornless One while my old lady was over last night...So I got into asana and did so in my "body of light." Now, this ritual usually takes me, say, 10-15 minutes, when I do it physically (and quite honestly I thought it took about the same amount of time no matter what plane I was working on) excluding banishings and any other invocations, etc. that I might be using for a larger working.

So, I performed the whole thing, at what felt like a normal pace, not rushing or neglecting any aspect of the ritual. I finished, and when I 'came to' and got up, my girlfriend, surprised, informed me that I had only been in asana for approximately 3 minutes.

I was under the impression that the Astral plane was still bound by the 'rules' of time. Does anyone know what may have happened, or had a similar experience? Thank you in advance.

>>19128019
Hehehe eggs-ACTLY

>>19128019

I would think of that as a baby just saying its first syllables, and taking its first steps. It's a primitive, crude grasping at the self and the will, a childish exploration.

>>19128052
Yeah, but there are plenty of people who are new to evocation/the Artes in general, who are totally ignorant, know and admit they are totally ignorant, and go on to learn a great deal because they did not convince themselves that they knew what they were talking about. Which, honestly, seems like the path any mature adult getting into occultism would take

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I evoke thee oh demon of misdirected teenage angst!
Answer thy call yee that cringes in the darkest corners of night!
I beseech thee dark master to procure thee and my bff Megan tickets to the Bahous concert!
I Ashley, beseech thee oh lord of darkness to compel she who is known as the being of infinite uncoolness to give us a ride!
Thy will be done!

>>19128074
Somebody needs to save this and make it a copypasta

>>19128052
>any form of dream, visualization, or 'random, unexplained' thought
>first steps
True enough anon.

Hey if I need to burn cedar incense, and I can't find just loose "cedar incense," can I just burn actual cedar wood in my censor? Or is there more to it than that?

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>>19128064

That's the rub. Common sense is ironically named -- What *should* be common sense is so rare it may as well be the ability to shoot fireballs. Physically old =/= mature. Society by and large does not support the development of children in to actual adults, it turns them in to larger mindless children that plant their heads firmly up their asses because to them physically old = mature. We humans like often to live in a state of anger, greed, or delusion. Rare it is that people wake up and strive for actual maturity.

>>19128074

This post is a perfect example of what I mean -- Needless mockery of the underdeveloped to build up a sense of superiority. On the surface it may be 'funny', but it's a microaggression using the logic of "They're not in my tribe, so they're not human and therefore fair game for whatever I want to do to them".

>>19128086
I could write more, given enough exposure to self professed dark beings, that are actually filled with soft tender vulnerable bits of naive exploitability.

How pleasurable it is to witness their entire world view crumble given exposure to any actual horror, beyond sleeping in their friends closet when they run away from home for a few days.

Or how triggered they become upon the mere suggestion that the super fascist army vet walking around walmart with his kid knows more about horror and death than they can possible learn in their lifetime.

>>19128209
I am not in a tribe.

And you should know by my actions that I actually care a great deal for these people.

>>19128209
>needless mockery
Rich, coming from the one who (presumably) posted this:
>>19127544

>>19127992
Good document, thanks.

>>19128173
I mean you could do more but woodchips would totally do the trick.

>>19128064

You mean like I'm doing with >>19127638 and >>19127729 ?

>>19128256
Thanks. What more could I do ? Process them somehow?

magik is evil

>>19128259
More or less, yeah.

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>>19128173
I would not recommend it, anon. There simply isn't enough oil in the wood to produce the needed effect.

Ceder essential oil is quite affordable. You can definitely afford to buy the good stuff.

I find it blends well with pine and sandalwood.

Anyone have an idea where I can find a hexagram of solomon and goetic seal to print out that won't take up half a page and distort when I resize it?

>>19128320
Just find the option "fit to page" in your print option settings.

>>19128325
Thanks... it did.. it fit it to the entire page, though. Then it printed out a series of tiny distorted copies. I guess i'm a dumbfuck

>>19128339
>I guess i'm a dumbfuck
It takes far more than ignorance of hidden printer settings to earn the illustrious title of "dumb fuck".

There should also be a setting for scale percentage. set it to 50% and see if that works.

Under pages set it to only print page one. No need to kill trees for nothing.

>>19128361
I think I got it! Thank you. I am only a millenial in theory, not in practice.

>>19127977
Many monks were balls deep into the occult because they were more often than not the only one's with access to occult material

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>>19128385
>millenial
The meme only applies to those that buy into the stereo type.

Gen X said the same things of Gen Y.
Now it is Gen Y's turn to scold the students of the new generation. Cycle of life, my dear anon.

Just empty words used to express frustration or a handy label for social commentary. I wouldn't put too much stock in it.

I'm interested in Gnosticism. What should I read first?

anyone have any stories or experiences?

>>19128418
The corpus Hermeticum is pretty solid.

There's also the Gnostic gospels if you want something lighter, just know that they are Gnostic interpretation to the abrahamic myths. I am personally a fan of the Goseple of Thomas.

Everything should be in the library

>>19128267

Thanks, I was worried that I came off a bit presumptuous with the Stirner thing, but I kinda wanna illustrate what I'm curious about WRT Magic/Chaos Magic. Is there like a "magical nietzsche" or something?

>>19128438
You start, anon.

Set the tone and perhaps people will jump in?

Hey what's a good way to bind an elemental? Seal of Solomon? Or is it unnecessary?

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>>19128450
Schelling>Fichte>Schope>Nietzsche>Stirner

>>19128465
>Hey what's a good way to bind an elemental?
What type of elemental?
What is the pretext?

>>19128472
Elemental king. Fire.

>>19128476
Also, evocation, to strike a deal, is the pretext. Are they as sneaky as goetics? I always had the impression elementals were generally more straightforward with the exception maybe of the sylphs?

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>>19128476
A brief invocation, lament, veneration in that order to lord Nusku, should do the trick.

It may also have some effect on whoever sent the elemental your way.

What sort of rite would one use the GRH, invoking the zodiac sign instead of the planet, for?

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I'm not sure what tradition I want to go towards.

I'm a big celtaboo, but I don't know what sources to trust for druidic practices.
Outside of that I'm interested in Sumer and it's history, but I'm uncertain if it'll fit me at all.

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>>19128494
>A brief invocation, lament, veneration in that order to lord Nusku, should do the trick.

It would be wrong if I failed to mention that this may trigger an initiation, should he consider you a "good fit". This effect has been known to turn simple experiments into life changing ordeals.

This applies to any contact with the Anunnaki.

Easy to contact, impossible to banish/bind thereafter.

>>19128585
Interesting. thank you

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>>19128411
>they were more often than not the only one's with access to occult material

I think the rate of literacy in the ancient world played the biggest role in causing this phenomena.

Merely understanding the written word made people "wizards" circa 3000bc. Hard to access the material if it nothing more than indentations in sheets of clay.

>>19128470
Let me know if I am shitting up your thread. I am not here to troll you.

>>19128653
Indeed. Hence SPELL-ing!

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>>19128693
Gotta love the origin of words!

I found the origin of "threshold" and "Sincere" quite interesting.

Am I reading the pastebin right, that I should mark the Sigil of the planetary angel, as well as that of the planetary spirit, on my body? That section is fairly vague, as it says "use the angel in any case" but it doesn't say "how"

Plant magic?

Not like herbalism but communicating with plants, encouraging growth, making them healthy etc

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>>19128762
>communicating with plants
Not too sure...

>encouraging growth, making them healthy etc
Plant magic and the Anunnaki, there are so many deities devoted to this I do not know where to begin.

But as a proper first rite, I would opt for Inanna or Marduk. You can then branch out into more specialized spirits of the Igigi.

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(bump)

Any books by, or about Abramelin the Mage in this library?

>>19128978
Since no one with more knowledge of Abramelin answered.

Yes, just browse the library.

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>>19128978

Ape has the Mathers translation. I personally would suggest the Dehn translation, which he does not have (that I am aware of). However, a quick looksie on any of the usual sources should yield you a pdf.

Is anyone here experienced with Enochian magic? I've got Laycock's dictionary and Crowley's stuff including Vision. I'm not a ceremonial noob; just never got into Enochian until now. Any advice?

>>19129104

I agree with this

Dude was a nutter imo but who am I to judge. I never even attempted the ritual.

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>>19128470

none of those people are related to magic at all

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>>19129110
What are you exactly trying to do with it?

Find your method of scrying, in this day and age of technology I do not think there is much need for scribe for very personal workings.

Also the traditional shew-stone, mirrors are not possibly needed if you find that they are not that effective.

One could "scry" by through very different methods. For example pic related is a Lappish Shaman "Witch-Drum" one could construct in a similar manner. The symbols there to represent those of your magical circle and the actual scrying or trance is induced by drumming seated in your asana.

Find the best method that suits you and helps you to induce the state. Clear Vision is the most difficult aspect of the work and even in "Vision and the Voice" Crowley had much disturbances with receiving of visions

Is yawning while doing banshings? I've only been doing my banishings on and off for a month or two and daily for about a week or so. But lately I've noticed I yawn every time. I didn't think anything however, until I realized it's always at the same times. Specifcily while invoking Raphael and Isis during the LBRP and LBRH respectively

>>19129249
I meant is yawning while doing banishings common, sorry

>>19129020
>>19129104
My friend had shown me a few years back a hard copy of a book about Enochian written by Abramelin. Was just curious if there was a pdf version. Doubtful, as it was a really old ass book that he had gotten from his master. It was in a storage space he lost due to bullshit, so we can't get it back.

Any 33rd degree masons here? What is Freemasonry about? I know the '''fraternity''' jazz they spit out. But I know there is more occult things to it.

Some anon fag pls shed some light.

>>19129404
For what it's worth, you probably won't find a 33rd degree mason fucking around on 4chan.

My grandfather was a 32nd degree, and all he had to say to me when I mentioned interest in joining was a dry laugh, followed by "They really shake you up when they induct you, I tell you what."

Once he passed, I inherited all his Masonic stuff, which included a book of not rituals, per se, but honorific traditions, such as the rite you go through to become a member; along with customs and courtesies, rules, etc.
Nothing about it seemed highly occult-like, outside of the similarities between it and Golden Dawn-esque magic, in that, the more ceremonial, the more meaning.

His books were dated 1986 from a chapter lodge in the Atlanta area.

>>19129404

Mark Master Mason here...ask away.

>>19128418
The Nag Hammadi texts are a good read.
gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html

>>19129404
>>19129511

>For what it's worth, you probably won't find a 33rd degree mason fucking around on 4chan.

Not true these days. In some southern lodges they have 1-32 degree sessions within 1 week or a day or some absolutely stupidly fast thing.

Besides, it doesn't matter.

The first three degrees are the most important...and technically the only ones.

>>19129654
Is it true you have to be recommended in order to be initiated?

>>19129654
As an organization, what do masons do?
Is it just networking or do they do charitable stuff for their communities or what?

>>19129905

Not true, Scottish and Yorkish rites are the most important.

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Is it worth reading "Introduction to Magic" by Julius Evola?

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>>19127209
I read this sick book the other day. You guys check it out.

>>19129988
yeah they do a lot of charity stuff for their local communities and shit like that... some lodges do more than others.

>>19130033
Never read Julius Cuckvola

>>19130157
Why not?

So many different beliefs...

Anyone got a good read that tells the history of these beliefs.
it would also be interesting to read about how the abrahamic religions turned many of these beliefs into what is not satanism

>>19129157
I'm honestly not sure yet. Probably conjuring for counsel or information initially. I'd eventually like to utilize the entities in a way similar to Goetic spirits.

I've had success with a black mirror when scrying (and evoking) in the past so I'll probably stick with that.

>>19130033
Yeah

>A German translation, credited to Abraham of Worms and edited by Georg Dehn, was published in 2001 by Edition Araki. In the Dehn version, the fourth book is included and Mathers' galangal substitution is reverted to calamus (though not in the English translation — see Abramelin Oil). All 251 of the word squares are completely filled in. An English translation of Dehn's edition was published in 2006 by the American publisher Nicholas Hays.

No one has the Nicholas Hays translation?

>>19130378
A lot of the Western Esoteric Tradition is rooted in Abrahamic religion. Witchcraft and paganism all kind of do their own thing but western ceremonial magic is derived from grimoires based in an abrahamic paradigm.

>>19130378
>to read about how the abrahamic religions turned many of these beliefs into what is not satanism
winners write the history books and said beliefs and knowledge was not easily co-opted into the church, hence it got demonized

>>19130033
IMO read first Agrippa's books, then read this one.

>>19129144
>Schelling, Schope, and Nietzsche aren't the origin points for Crowley's doctrines of Will.
>Implying they don't all feed into Bataille's transgressive philosophy

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>>19128040
Does this help?

You can get the book at
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?&req=john+michael+greer+circles+of+power

Does anyone have a scan of the third edition? This is the first one.

>>19128556
Go for a book called "The Celtic Golden Dawn" by John Michael Greer.
There's an epub of it on Library Genesis.

>>19130011
Degrees != Rites.

>>19130855
I have epub
https://sendit.cloud/3muzrzbzt7hv

>>19130563
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=dehn+abramelin

>>19130912
Terminology/semantic problem.

The core of Freemasonry is in the Three Masonic Degrees; there is no higher Mason, period, than a Master Mason.

Scottish Rite and Yorke Rite are indeed called rites. They have rituals (rites) which confer degrees, *WITHIN THEIR OWN ORDER STRUCTURE*.

A lodgemaster at a meeting of the Scottish Rite has zero jurisdiction or authority over a MWM in the Blue.

>>19130924
>The core of Freemasonry is in the Three Masonic Degrees; there is no higher Mason, period, than a Master Mason.

What about the Unknown Superiors or Superiores Incogniti?

>>19130915
Thank you very much. Would you also have, by any chance, the third edition of Paths of Wisdom?

>>19130924
>Scottish Rite and Yorke Rite are indeed called rites.

They are but they aren't the same thing as degrees which is what that person seemed to be confused about.

>>19130934
>Unknown Superiors
Order of Strict Observance legend.

>Superiores Incogniti
Song by Barbarossa Umtrunk.

On the other hand, one seriously has to wonder what the fuck goes on in the Holy Order of Wisdom.

>>19130944
>On the other hand, one seriously has to wonder what the fuck goes on in the Holy Order of Wisdom.

Templar history masturbation

>>19130944
>Order of Strict Observance legend.

I assume you have the same opinion about "Secret Chiefs" of the Golden Dawn?

>>19130935
Nope. I found Circles after some intensive googling so PoW maybe is somewhere. I have to buy physical copies of both already...

>>19130936
Randomly pulled up the Fifteenth Degree of the SR SMJ:

http://www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/aasr_r15us.html

>ctrl+f
>"degree"
>12 hits
>self referential: "Bodies of this degree"

Anon.
Both the Blue Lodge and other Rites have degrees.

http://www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/aasr_r15us.html

>>19130949
Not particularly; what's your actual point here? Because if we wanna delve into the historical basis of Frau Sprengel and the Order of the Rosy and Golden Cross (or even further, how Sprengel didn't necessarily have any actual jurisdiction on the HOotGD), we can.

>>19130948
Is that a comment from firsthand knowledge? Word on the street is they have their own entirely different 33 degree structure from Scottish Rite and I'd be interested in seeing what those rituals actually cover given how many other bodies you have to join to score an invitation.

>>19130957
>Anon.
>Both the Blue Lodge and other Rites have degrees.

I never once said they didn't. What the hell is wrong with reading comprehension on this board?

All I did was reply to this
>>19130011
>>19130912

Degrees are not rites they are given from rites. Fucking read plebs.

>>19130957
>Because if we wanna delve into the historical basis of Frau Sprengel and the Order of the Rosy and Golden Cross (or even further, how Sprengel didn't necessarily have any actual jurisdiction on the HOotGD), we can.

You believe (She) was a real person?

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>>19130962
Yeah.
Brill's esoterica journal Aries did a great article about her.
>It's in the library

>>19130967
>It's in the library

Which folder and where? I literally am retarded when navigating the library

>>19130969
Academic folder.

>>19130959
You sound super fucking salty about a matter of simple equivocation. Smoke a J and get back to us.

>>19130973
>You sound super fucking salty about a matter of simple equivocation

Reading comprehension would've prevented any misunderstanding. Read an 8th grade grammar book and get back to reading.

Literally
>Degrees != Rites
and people couldn't get it.

>>19130980
>>Degrees != Rites
Rite=ritual
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/rite
Degrees are conferred by the rite/ritual.
>>19130957

If you're done being a salty little bitchqueen because someone recognizes there are multiple subdefinitions of 'rite', particularly in a Freemasonic context, we can carry on with the thread. But clearly your inability to understand/your refusal to listen to what I'm saying means I'm quasi literate.

>>19130973
>>19130969

Thank-you. Will read it later tonight.
I
made a lot of research on my own (all the stuff I could find) on her maybe 5 years ago. The conclusion for most of those articles was that Sprengel was invention of Westcott and Mathers (or Westcott alone) and some of the letters from Sprengel contained faulty German writing proving it was written by someone who did not even know all the basics of the language.

>>19130999

>>19130011
In this context the person clearly misunderstood the difference in the Degrees vs the actual bodies (Rites). That is the only thing that I was getting at and you seem to be getting your panties in a twist over multiple sub definitions.

>>19131009
>The conclusion for most of those articles was that Sprengel was invention of Westcott and Mathers (or Westcott alone)
If Sprengel was fake, it was a Westcott invention. Mathers wasn't smart enough for that.

>Language problems
There are indeed a number of them but this does not inherently mean she wasn't in Germany, connected to the Order of the Golden and Rosy Cross. Been years since I read the article but I believe the conclusion they draw is that she was 1) Real. 2) A lady....and that's about it.

>>19131010
I didn't read that as confusion between degree/rite but rather as just base ignorance of the authority structure of Freemasonry.

I was attempting to lay a bit of linguistically neutral groundwork to put us on the same page but as soon as I tried you came in with the condescension and implied adhom about literacy and plebs like a sniveling childish fuckposter.

>>19131028
The article so far has pretty much summed up the grammatical parts that argue for the authenticity, certainly interesting stuff and not to be dismissed as Westcott´s invention.

I have always been extremely interested on the subject of Secret Chiefs, Theosophical Mahatmas etc.

To come back to the discussion: MacGregor Mathers send a letter in July 1889 to the director of Theosophical review/publication called Lucifer. Mathers was then a secretary of the Metropolitan College of the Societas Rosicruciana.

This letter carries the following mottoes: Sapiens dominabitur astris (=Sprengel´s motto) - Deo duce, comite ferro - Non omnis moriar - Vincit omnia veritas. The last motto is also that of the "Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor" or
H B of L", who had schism with Theosophical Society and the Societas Rosicruciana.

The letter ends with with "published by order of the Superior Sapere Aude, Cancellarius in Londinense" followed by postscript: "Seven adepts who possess the elixir of long life are currently alive and meet every year in a different town" ( The imperator of Golden Dawn, would be one of these Seven )
( A. Crowley also has a little play on this with his novel Liber Li: >Of course, no more than one seventh of the wisdom is ever confided to one of the Seven, and the Seven meet in council but once in every thirty-three years"

Sprengel was supposedly part of the old German "Golden Rose-Cross" founded in 1714 by the Saxon Priest Samuel Richter (pseudonym Sincerus Renatus) and he held the title "Imperator" which the Golden Dawn later adopted. This title was inheritance of earlier Rosicrucian organizations.

I can continue this later on how this ties to Mathers and Blavatsky.

I'm fairly new to magic. What books should I read first? (I've already read Prometheus Rising and The Kybalion)

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>>19131133

The Fourth Way and One Year Manual. I also advise taking up yoga or qigong if you haven't already.

>>19131133
try >>19130915

>>19130563
What's the point of reverting to Calamus? To poison the operator?

>>19128494
50, I have done a bit of looking into your recs, but there is so much shit IDK where to start. What text would you recommend I reference? I'm not a complete n00b, just with regard to the Annu

>>19129384
According to the claimed time frame of Abramelin vs. the work of Dr. Dee and Kelly, I believe this is impossible.

>>19129249
Sometimes I get indigestion while doing the water and earth portions of Bornless One, especially the Earth portion, even if I haven't eaten for hours.

>>19129249
Anon, I'm sure you already know, but you should invoke and banish on a daily basis
>invoke often

>>19131588
Yeah, it's weird no matter how awake or what time it is I always yawn and the same spots. And it happens both times when invoking Isis too (as in before and after drawing the hexagrams)
>>19131598
Yeah, I just kinda had a point of super weak will power for some reason but I'm doing it daily now. However
>invoke
I had asked about this before, because originally I only saw mentions of daily banishments so that's what I did and it makes sense. However I don't really get invoking in the morning, and when I asked here before the only real answer I got was that it's hard to sleep after invoking which didn't really explain the benefits of it. But I guess I'll invoke in the morning, banish at night and continue to read until I know why

>>19131133
All of Liber ABA. The Middle Pillar. The Tree of Life. Psychic Self-Defense (with a grain of salt). Liber O. In fact, pretty much all Class B A.'.A.'. documents will be good to read. I'm sure there are a bunch I have left out.

>>19131617
I would say the primary reason is simply that it's not the best idea to invoke right before bed. As your ritual schedule becomes more complex, you will probably find yourself banishing and invoking consecutively, as part of larger rites, as well as invoking 4x daily (Liber Resh). Try to fit the Middle Pillar and/or other sefira rituals into your daily schedule if you can and desire to.

>>19131632
But of course, there are probably other, more specific reasons. I have really only seen that particular set up recommended by Regardie, but it's certainly how I go about it. Maybe Ape or another more experienced individual can give us some insight on this, when they have a moment?

>>19131632
I think my main issues is that honestly I probably just don't understand invoking at a basic level. I understand banishing, it makes sense to me. You don't want to be influenced by external forces/energies/etc so you do banishment rituals. But invoking on the other hand makes less sense. The only purpose I can see is to be more in sync with the world around you? As for the Middle Pillar I already do that after LBRP/LBRH would I still want to do MP after switching to LIRP/LIRH?

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>>19131617

The movements of the microcosm mirroring the movements of the macrocosm. Ebb and flow.

Is the basis of magic belief or trance?

Seeing as people can use completely different methods like GD or chaos magic to do the same thing, I assume it is just about reaching a trance state or pure belief in the system.

>>19131683
I would probably always banish before MP. I don't always, but I think at this point that's what you'll wanna do. Anyone feel free to correct me,though.

I think Liber O and Liber ABA, Part 3 have some info on invoking, but you can also check out this site: http://solve-et-coagula.us/ritual/banishing.php

People probably think I'm getting paid to shill for them because I have been linking to them so much, but I just discovered this site recently and they give decent, elementary breakdowns of all kinds of things, from Alchemy to Enochian. Also, hermetic.com is another good one for this sort of thing, as is thelemapedia, albeit incomplete.

>>19131748
Some people think so. However, there are various "learning/teaching methods" for learning piano (although there is pretty much a standard curriculum at the core that most "traditional" instructors follow), that will ultimately end with the same result. None of it, however, is dependent on the student's belief (or disbelief) in the existence of music, musical instruments, or even necessarily in their instructor's ability. Now, some will tell you it's all about belief. I respectfully disagree.

I've been told that telling someone you are going to cast a spell before doing so inevitably results in the spell failing. Can other people cause "thought-interference" or something?

>>19131765
That's bullshit.

>>19131748
No. See >>19131764

>>19131777
>777
>that's bullshit
Would you say, though, that constantly talking about an extended working you are doing, while you are in the midst of it, may cause problems? Or where exactly does the virtue of "Remain(ing) Silent" come into play?

>>19131789
>may cause problems
Generally speaking, no, though that'd largely be dependent on the operation in question.

>Silence
This concept gets abused a lot.

Lemme put it this way; one of the tactics of so-called Black Magick is by being loud. Very loud.

If your target's already paranoid as fuck and jittery, saying you're operating against them does 33% of the work for you.

If you want an extended and practical discourse on the virtue of Silence, go read 48 Laws of Power.

>>19131228
Can't find either of these in the library, do you know what folder they are in?

>>19131764
To extend the metaphor, I view modern Chaotes (or at least the dickmoo faction) thusly: One can even be *completely* or almost completely ignorant of music theory, and still play the piano. They won't necessarily know what they are doing, or even how they are doing it, but there are notes (maybe even in key!) coming out of that piano!

Now, take someone who decided to learn music theory: they are going to be able to produce repeatable results, melodically and rhythmically, time and time again. And they are going to understand how and why they are able to do so.

(PS I'm typing this at work with a thousand distractions, I hope I'm not leaving anything out)

>>19131765
There's this:
"A very effective way to become emotionally involved in a situation you are trying to shape by magical means is to tell other people what you are doing. Human nature being what it is, you're likely to end up with at least some of your ego invested in succeeding—and this is perhaps the most effective of all ways to divert energy from the actual work at hand. It is far wiser and far more useful to act in silence and leave your ego out of the picture. There are other reasons for the tradition of magical secrecy, of course, but this is an important one, and one well worth keeping in mind."

And you should read the first result in this search:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22Three+Lessons+in+Operative+Magic%22&ia=web

>>19131803
>Black Magick
Lel. I think you and I , and most of this thread, feel the same way about such terms.

Ok, will do. Thanks.

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>>19131806
GD>Regardie
Gurdjieff/Fourth Way

>>19131812
>dickmoo
Is babby triggered that I banned David Griffin from some of the largest CM groups on social media?

Are there any relatively 'complete' magic courses that aren't Golden Dawn based? Don't enjoy the reliance on using the god-names for beings I've never met.

>>19131825
>triggered
Lelel. I think it's great. David Griffin is the Grand Ipsissimus of my taint. How did you get "triggered" out of what I said? I suppose I should have included the keksuckers in my explanation? But then, I don't consider them "magicians," just shitposters

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>>19131841
Ah, I usually only hear the phrase 'dickmoo' out of keksuckers.

IJS, there's more to the DKMU crowd than meets the eye, though admittedly the most vocal memespammers were pretty shit. At it's peripheral and into other loose collectives are good artists and practitioners. I know this because I run with 'em. Young well educated students of the third generation Discordians, etc.

>>19131812
>>19131764
The metaphor of how you learn the piano implies you can already see and press the keys. Different systems are just different ways of playing.
But isnit belief that allows a noob to find the piano.

>>19131853
Discordians are breddy gud guise. My intro to dickmoo was them coming here and spamming the shit out of the board. Oh, and the pic of the guy with the book that says "expand thyself." Meanwhile, if he expands himself anymore, he's gonna lose a limb to die-uh-beet-us.

>>19131854
And you can't already see and perform the rites? Or the weapons? It isn't belief that allows a noob to learn the rites or acquire the instruments to preform the rites, nor is it belief that helps them learn how to wield those instruments.

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>>19131860
My specific factions have better artists and PR.

>>19131867
If we're really gonna dissect the metaphor, al the basic elements of the piano can be compared to: Learning the formulas and understanding them, learning how to vibrate the divine and barbarous names, learning how to make the different pentagrams and hexagrams, learning the attributions, etc. As to which aspects of piano correspond to these, I'll let someone else work that out.

>>19131888
None of which are invisible or require belief, I might add.

>>19131888
>888
>Christ

>Learning the formulas
Musical notation.
Tone scale selection.

>learning how to vibrate the divine and barbarous names
Learning tiny tactile things; how long to hold a note for how hard.

>different pentagrams and hexagrams
Minor conventions; the coda. The flourish. The recall.

>learning the attributions
Large scale formal styles. Canon and the like.

>>19131906
Noice. I knew someone had it in em!

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>>19131893
>93
>None of which are invisible or require belief, I might add.
BEE-lieving in yourself notwithstanding ;3

>>19131922
Indeed, indeed

Is imperialarts legit? His goetic summoning record is an interesting read but he claims that the old school method gives better results than adding lbrp+mp etc.

>>19131960
Literally who?

>>19131960
>Claims that not using LBRP makes it better than using it
i'm gonna guess they are functionally retarded? I don't see how banishing BEFORE a rite could make it LESS effective. But that's just me

>>19131960
>>19131964

While that's probably the case for like LRP, etc., I'd argue real fuckin' hard about the Hex rite(s) given how much Agrippa is a fucking bedrock cornerstone in all this.

In any case at first glance he seems like a half decent source, should stick to ritual illustrations rather than book covers, and sounds sorta crotchety but not as bad as others to the point where it poisons their discourse.

I might even know the fag, I dunno.

>>19131993
How can utilizing a (semi-) modern banishing rite before the invocations make it less effective than not?

>>19132005
Fucking it up, which there' s plenty of chance to do. As in poorly attributed. Certain stations on the Tree, if you buy that model, will undermine the "normal conventions" (see how the LBRP and Star Ruby differ, and why). Again, everything is super situational and will be highly dependent on operation and operator.

>>19132031
I do indeed buy that model. Where can I look for more info on this matter in particular?

>>19132043
Also, do you mean the Operator fucking it up, or the rite itself being fucked up? Or not modifying the rite appropriately to suit the operation? Would you say Star Ruby is better in this case?

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>>19132043
A lot of it is behind the scenes.
I dunno who put this together but uh, page fourteen lays the traditional basis where like sixteen through 18 shows you how you can where you're oriented on the tree for the various other rituals when it breaks down the Signs by Element in the Tetragrammaton. Creativity and some graph paper shows that each rite in these simple banishing series from Levi to Crowley is meant to tag any number of four different astrological signs

>>19132113
>>19132049

Shit I forgot the link to the document. Pic was unrelated, just illustrative of my point better than I can speak forth.

http://documents.mx/documents/1-lbrp.html

So yeah, fourteen through like eighteen.

>>19132113
Interdasting. Where can I find the source for those pages?

Anybody have links to good pdfs of grimoires of any kind? I'd like to read as much as I can about spells and whatnot.

>>19132144
https://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/religion.occult.new_age/occult_library/DuQuette%20-%20Illustrated%20Goetia/DuQuette%20-%20Illustrated%20Goetia.pdf

There are also many in the library linked up top, but they have to be downloaded.

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>>19132144
Did you try, I dunno, the 45 gig library I assembled and post at the top of every single thread?

>>19132167
You mean all that work wasn't just to have a fancy looking link in the OP?

Hey y'all whats up with this styxhexenhammer guy? A load of people act like he's the next A.C. or something, an apparently he posted over in the Goetia thread, according to a couple anons who apparently recognized his story...I'm not impressed...am I missing something?

How do you knoe if you've been demonically possessed?
Around February i had a day where i had an afternoon nap where i could suddenly visualise anything i wanted.
Suddenly i regained sonciousness naked screaming into a mirror.
At this time i was suffering from semi frequence psychosis but i had always sustained consiousness throughout.

Was this supernatural or was this just stress and sleepwalking?

>>19132654
Almost certainly not supernatural. And I would say the same thing even if you hadn't been experiencing intermittent psychosis

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>>19132621
Nope.
Styxy used to post here ca 2011. Contributed my copy of Steiner's Occult Significance of Blood.

If he's the next Crowley, I'll livestream my suicide by shotgun.

>>19132621
>Hey y'all whats up with this styxhexenhammer guy? A load of people act like he's the next A.C. or something, an apparently he posted over in the Goetia thread, according to a couple anons who apparently recognized his story...I'm not impressed...am I missing something?

He went full /pol/tard and thus /pol/tards follow him

>muh kek!
>muh chaos!
when in reality these fags have never even heard the name Peter Carrol

>>19132675
>>19132681
Hehe thanks for the time to respond. I had that impression of the guy, but I figured if I was missing something, this would be the place to straighten me out.

Something about random anons posting on youtube like they are some great magus redefining occultism REALLY turns me off.

>>19132675
>>19132695

There probably will never be another 'Crowley'. The groundwork is just non existent for such a thing.

BABALON
INTENSIFIES

>There are many figures in Iran who Khidr took their places by the Islamization process. One of them is paradoxically a female figure Anahita. The most popular shrine in Yazd is dedicated to Anahita. Among the Zoroastrians, for the pilgrims to Yazd, the most important of the six pirs is Pir-e Sabz. It is still a functional temple and the holiest site for present-day Zoroastrians living in Iran.

>>19132751
>present-day Zoroastrians living in Iran.

O wow they haven't been killed off with the Kurds yet?

>>19132621
He's okay as far as youtube occultists go. I like his political commentary better. The next Crowley he is not. The people who think that probably aren't very deep into occultism or Crowley.

>>19127209
Thank you so much for sharing the library with us.

>>19131833
Barrett's The Magus claims to be a complete system but I havent gotten around to reading it yet.

>>19131074
please do, interesting

>>19132908
I've been wondering about that one.

Is it recommended or would I be wasting my time?

>>19132113
whoa

>>19132955
My reprint uses old English type set so all the s's look like f's. It's a pain in the ass to read just skimming it. As to the value of the material, I don't know. I haven't sat down to read it yet. Might wait for some other anons to chime in.

>>19127263
Koetting and become a living god. Are nothing but rp fuckwits. Whoever buys their shit unironically is autistic

>>19127773
why not just english?

>>19133391

The same reason one puts a safety on a gun -- To prevent accidental firing when one doesn't mean to.

>>19132113
Shit like this is what should actually be in "intro to Magick" books

>>19132751
Hi Thoth, I want to get gud at magick, where should I start from the library? Which are the best books?

>>19133795
If only there were a beginners folder full of books for beginners just beginning to learn about the stuff beginners should know.

>>19133878
If we had a nickel for every time, right?

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>>19131566
>50, I have done a bit of looking into your recs, but there is so much shit IDK where to start.

Yes, this is one of the main obstacles people encounter. Luckily there are far more translations available these days.

The basis for many workings as you have likely gathered from reading the various incantations, is simple prayer.

These prayers are usually lacking of common structure and where spoken "in the moment". The prayers that where particularly effective were recorded and canonized by the temple scribes. These were then distributed to other "incantation" priests for use in similar scenarios.

The other type was more formal and used a structured formula that varied by era, city, purpose of ritual. These where typically used in a temple or alter room.

Here is small list of texts I threw together in hast:
Alter:
A New Ceremonial Practice at Ayanis Fortress The Urartian Sacred Tree Ritual on the Eastern
*Babylonian Topographical Texts - A.R. George

Mythos:
Devils And Evil Spirits Of Babylonia
Innana. Queen of Heaven (Her hymns and stories from Sumer)
Sumerian Mythology
*Semitic Magic Its Origins And Development - R. Campbell Thompson
*The Assyrian Tree Of Life - Simo Parpola
*The God Enki in Sumerian Royal Ideology - Peeter Espak

Translation:
*Sumerian Lexicon - John A. Halloran

*=Not in library but you should not have too much trouble finding it.

I have a personal grimoire I have compiled over the years.

I can transpose a basic ritual framework and post it, if there is any interest.

>>19127209
As someone who is juat really curious about all this, could anyone share a few greentexts on their summoning stories?

Any of you have experience with the Picatrix? Is astrology really as important as it makes out to be?

Got some interesting .pdfs and audio files here if anyone's interested in tibetan buddhism
http://uma-tibet.org/edu/gomang/pdflinks.php
>>19127209
Hope things go well with you and your time off is proving fruitful

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>>19127209
>https://youtu.be/Oxclr8mD7lE [Embed]
Damn, these guys are breddy good.

>>19131825
>dikmoo
>blacksunnazis
>keksuckers
>likely a thousand others

Is there a place that explains any of this drama I keep running into. I used to think it was typical 4chan bs, but people seem genuinely upset by this stuff.

My curiosity is piqued. No need to post links or any other meta crap. I'll hang out for a few more minutes, then I gotta get out of this place and finally start my Saturday.

>>19133987
Astrology is used in A LOT of rites/rituals. Not your layman astrology, full of New Age, horoscope stuff. I mean REAL astrology, like - knowing which planets will be above head at certain times.

>>19134002
I think there's a beef with /pol/ and all of the kekistani autistics. I'm honestly not sure though. This is the first I've heard of any /x/ vs. /pol/ beef and I hang out on /pol/ a lot more than I do /x/.

What are some alternatives to the LBRP that are not adaptations/deity-swaps thereof?

>>19133907
much interest, If you have the time.
That is if you're not too busy being a badass and whatnot.

>>19134610
Visualize a golden fire burning off all the filth in you and your surrounding for a few minutes.

>>19134610
specific rituals? not sure there are any unless you count woo like >>19134789

>>19134922
You can add some gay chants to it and pretend call upon Ra or something.

That way, you'll be a real wizard.

>>19131074
>>19132934
Continuing where I left:
This ´Golden Rose-Cross´ stopped existing somewhere in the 1700s. It was replcated in 1780 by the "Initiate Brothers of Asia" in Vienna and their superiors were called "Fathers and Brothers of the Seven Unknown Churches of Asia"

These should not be confused with some actual adepts living in Asia, but it is an direct reference to the Christian Seven Churches found in book of Revelation.

It ties to Golden Dawn, in a sense, that these organizations, just like Golden Dawn, made their members take an oath of allegiance to the "Imperator" (Term only found in Rosicrucian and Golden Dawn, considering the Cipher MSS was also attributed to a contact of Golden Rose-Cross)

The Seven Adepts of Mathers mentioned in my last post were most likely connected to this Continental Rosicrucian organization that was at some point known as Golden Rose-Cross.

How this ties to Theosophic Mahatmas or Secret Chiefs of Golden Dawn? Their supposed "abode" is found in the same direction. The founder of the Golden Rose-Cross (Sincerus Renatus) that the "Masters" of the Rose-Cross left for "India" and none of them were left in Europe. 1714 statutes of the Golden Rose-Cross one can read "every Brother shall hange his first name and surname after he has been accepted, and shall do the same each time he changes countries"

Henri Nehaus also states that this departure of the "Masters" took place after the declaration of the Thirty Years War in Europe. Rose-Cross was also rumored to have links with Eastern, Islamic organizations.

In René Guénon´s book "History of Pseudo-Religion" there is aaccount of traveler Paul Lucas, who traveled through Greece and Asia Minor durin the reign of Louis XIV, recalls meeting four dervishes in Brousse, one of them seemed to speak all the languages of the world ( a supposed faculty attributed to the Brothers of the Rose-Cross) and this man claimed to belong to a group of Seven people who meet every twenty years.

>>19134254

A lot of stuff that should be /x/ ends up on /pol/. Typically aliens, but recently there was the BadSelfEater debacle (Where Cicada 3301 supposedly surfaced and a ton of odd symbology was used in a crazy leadup to an anti-abortion rant). Then there was the Forgotten Languages website that popped up in the aftermath. The girl strapped to a bomb in a periscope that turned out to be viral marketing.

Personally I don't mind the cross-posting as long as it's within reason, but not many /pol/tards are as tolerant.

>>19134002
There's a shitty facebook group full of Chaos Magicians called "DKMU" that tried to make an astral internet basically but as usual there are only like three talented magicians and the rest are total fuckups. The people who think they are talented keep making shitty splinter groups but in reality the whole egregore is a polluted disaster and it is yet another example of how the only "occult" groups that do anything worthwhile are ones that don't have a fucking social media presence

Dear Frater K,

I dont know if you still come to /x/; i haven't seen you post lately, and i dont come to /omg/. On the Off chance that you lurk, i just wanted to thank you for all the civil debates you would engage in with us Christfags. We may never see eye to eye, but ,for myself at least, it was good to discuss things with a worthy adversary
Ape seems to have taken the torch, but you are missed Frater K.
May you be blessed in your endeavours.

Yours truly,
Christfag Anon

>>19134940
STARE STARE STARE

>>19134002
Many of the people on this board suffer from literal autism and go into fits of rage when you insult the object of their autistic fixation.

For example, there's always a good reaction when you remind people that Crowley was a feces-obsessed failure who ruined the lives of his family, friends, followers and lovers. And despite his incredibly powerful mind, he couldn't even defeat heroin.

>>19134987
>And despite his incredibly powerful mind, he couldn't even defeat heroin.

Using heroin continously for over 40 years and injecting it to his 70s is actually a feat that most people in this world probably could not replicate

Despite his shortcoming, apparent perversion etc. many criticism seems to forget he was extremely accomplished pioneer of mountaineering, excellent chess player and a profilic writer.

>>19134789
Where does this technique originate?

>>19135031
10,000 new age blogs and books. Still works.

>>19135055
This should come intuitively.
Yes, im projecting, but even before dabbling in the occult i would do something similar while waiting on school bus in winter as a child.
I would imagine my heart aflame, pumping fire in my veins to keep warm.
It worked then and even now After healthy skepticism.

>>19134922
There are no rituals, faggot.
Visualize and attack.

>>19134969
>civil debates you would engage in with us Christfags
1) I am Frater K.
2) I'm rarely civil with Christfags.

Guys, can someone explain equivalent exchange to me? Specifically in sigil magic. I know you need to give something of equal value to your request, but who determines the value? You or the entity you're dealing with?

>>19135977
Suppose you would want to charge a sigil with some form of bodily excrement, plasma, or intent - - this would entail just a little bit of faith from the heart of the practitioner to begin with. Nothing determines the value; it's good to know the intent of any entities involved, though.

>>19135996
Let's say I draw the sigil on some toilet paper, jack off while visualising it and then cum on the sigil. What would this give?


Also, how would I determine the intent of whatever decides to help me

Are Agrippa's three books of occult philosophy a good choice for a novice?

It was recommended to me but skimming it, it seems to offer a lot of details but not much in the way of an entry point or training.

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my dudes
check my shit
trying to explain to muh homies the weltanschauung
>in the beginning we've had two meta-civilizations that represented two cosmic principles: left and right, materialism and idealism. horizontal line and vertical.
then the faggot demiurge sent a giant %%rock%% to the earth. and our axis has changed. -climate changed and everyone had to migrate. but these two spiritual streams continued to fight for meaning/controlling the logos in our realm
>tl;dr
>sabaoth's symbol is a circled pyramid
>artificial death in the west(east)mc ride
>pyramids on deck shine
>egyptian freemasonry
>serving archonts
>egypt - land of the dead

>>19136034
There's an entire folder of "beginner" books and material, those are included
If you're looking for just a pure entry point, Modern Magik by Kraig isn't bad, though he does go off on some stuff like "ebil black magic"

>ask a muse to sing in me
>writing songs for a week straight

Occultism: be careful what you wish for

>>19136041
are you literally retarded?

>>19136225
I am. but hey, it doesn't really matter
it is about the Heart and not your intellect

For anyone who wants a good movie dealing with occultism, A Dark Song is absolutely amazing. I just saw it 2 nights ago. And for once, the filmmakers actually know what they're talking about.

The plot is about a woman who contacts a magickian and asks him to help her perform the Abramelin, because she wants to contact her HGA. The film then goes into the grueling process of rituals. Really fantastic film and the ending is great.

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>>19136588

>>19134953
Occult organizations have a long history of falling apart because of egos. That predates the Internet.

>>19135155
Is this the basis for all magick?
i.e., are all of the various names and symbols &c employed by various traditions simply means of focusing/amplifying intent?

Or is that too broad a statement?

>>19132113
dat illustration doe

>tfw you found a roadkill hawk while you were out delivering a satchel of majikal herbs and can still taste it in your mouth an hour after processing

Here's a great vid of a probably Persian FEZANA Zoroastrian losing his shit at Parsis. Highlights:
>Super subtle anti Semitism
>Eugenics
>"Are you fucking kidding me?.....It's not about the fucking blood."
>"Nobody's saying bring in thieves, run a background check."
>"Converts are more true to systems."
>I've noticed lots of vids where Zoros use the word Will in a Crowley/Nietzsche sense, Parsi or otherwise, this guy is no different.
>Talks about America as if it's a tribe.
>He's visibly pissed off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2B_807Qyao

>>19137555
The get gives you the answer

>>19137555
I think some rituals are meant to help access parts of the structure that aren't available to just 'anyone' to focus on, though, that's important, like training yourself to use a muscle that you didn't know was there

>>19127209
>>19136090
can op or someone else with decent experience with this stuff give me honest advice/insight regarding summonig?

i havent done anything that could be considered magic so far but i've found through research that spirits tend to be malevolent, why is that? I've skimmed through one of Crowley's books and he said that it's similar to how electricity is dangerous but if you learn to control it it can be manipulated to carry out your will, this made sense at the time but then with research it bothered me how spirits could actively want to see my demise (i mean i don't have to worry about my computer electrocuting me all of a sudden...)

is there stuff on how to do "good" or "white" magic or am i just a dumbass and i don't belong here? is there stuff dedicated to only contacting "benefolent" spirits or was Crowley right with the electricity analogy?

>>19138736
the 'shades' off magic only matter in relation to the result of the spell and not the intent, no matter what kind of magic you're using, it only becomes 'white' or 'black' based on whether someone gets hurt as a result of your spell. That's all black magic is

>>19138736

Even angels can fuck you up. It's best to stay away from summoning period until you're not wet behind the ears. It's not necessarily that they want to do negative shit to you, it's just that (often) they don't care if that's a result of contact.

>>19127446
>Come back when you can do an hour of yoga per day.

Yeah, I'm sure that's what you do in between 4chan posts.

>>19127964
>Chumbley
>Kaula

"Andrew never really studied the system he was initiated in as successor, he more collected the initiation. As a result sadly he wasn’t really in the second order of the system when he initiated others into it and without informing the head guru, John Power either those initiations need to be negotiated with John. Andrew declared war on his guru and though his guru tried to talk to him, he got blanked. Six months later Andrew had died. In our tradition we say he let his ego get the better of him a potentially fatal mistake in Left Hand Path Magick." - https://www.lashtal.com/forums/topic/chumbley-and-left-hand-tantra/

>>19127685

"Plastic shamans" was originally a term for people that presented themselves as practicing native american shamanism when they actually weren't. It's broadened out to include anyone using the term "shaman" now. Harner's core shamanism for example, doesn't deserve the term "plastic shamanism" because he isn't presenting it as native american. He's using techniques that form the core (hence the name!) of shamanic practices from all over the world. And he actually HAS been initiated into the shamanic tradition of the south american jivaro tribe anyway, so no one but the jivaro themselves have any right to speak on the validity of his initiation into their practices.

>>19132621
>I AM A MASTER OF THE OCCULT

I wish I remember what video that shit was in. I'd use the audio for other things.

>>19138944
You've posted that before.

Good thing Tantraloka says any given Guru can teach as he pleases given the principles are generally in-line with Tantraloka. Also, there's rather a lot of dispute of whether Power was a legitimate heir to Mahendranath, given the succession rift between Lokanath, Alogos, and Power

>>19138758
>whether someone gets hurt as a result of your spell. That's all black magic is

Wut. Wait. Is this a consensus on this thread, or are you a lone dumbass?

Because I don't know shit. But this sound no no wrong to me. Like... "summoning demons to kill people" is technically white magic. If I understand the distinction of high and low magick correctly.

>>19138758
thanks for the clarification senpai

>>19138944
>it's just that (often) they don't care if that's a result of contact.
so summoning an altruistic being who genuinely doesn't want to hurt me is out of the question?

and also are there people who i can look into that are credible but focus on benevolent magic? (i know Crowley is prolific but i don't really want to go down the left hand path, do what thou wilt lifestyle)

>Even angels can fuck you up
by the way, this is kinda off topic but i really need to get to the bottom of this if i'm going to do magic. why is it that speaking the name of Jesus can BTFO any evil spirit? i've heard about how the only way people can stop sleep paralyses or hauntings or alien abductions or possessions is by doing just that and considering all the bullshit that the bible is filled with this kinda concerns me. Is Christianity the final red-pill am i missing something?

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>>19139110
Abhinavagupta seems to state pretty clearly in Ch. 16 that a properly initiated guru can fuck with the system as much as he likes as long as it's in-line with the teachings and praxes.

More interestingly, he appears to invite people to practice these rites without initiation to attempt jivanmukti, with the caveat that they recognize they aren't lineal representatives.

Pardon me, but I trust what Abhinava says more than what Power says. Period.

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>>19139134
BTW, welcome to the First Order of Initiation, anyone with Eyes to See.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UehA0qeqXUI

>>19138944
>Andrew declared war on his guru
>Six months later Andrew had died
LARPers btfo

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>>19139111

I do not endorse that definition.

As I view it:

White Magic = Informed consent of all parties involved/affected in regards to the magic.

Black Magic = Lack of informed consent from all parties parties involved/affected in regards to the magic.

>>19139162
>Upstart title claimant murders man for "dissent" who broke zero (0) protocols in the Light of Tantra and has to troll LAShTAL for membership in his wicca/kaula cult that's totally not a rip off of what Chumbley was doing anyway.
Yes, LARPers BTFO indeed.

>>19139186
>real magician BTFO's roleplay merlin who can't even defend himself
fuck off back to your reservation shitskin

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>>19139209
That's not nice :3

Sounds like you and Power need to spend a year drilling on the KU-LA practices in DBoE.

I'm very much a beginner- I have studied many "magicians" disciplines would this be considered the right hand path? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UybzzQmhK4

>you will never live in The City of Lady-Moon along the Oxus smoking dank opium-laced temple hash and learning at the feet of Zoroastrian, Platonic, Buddhist, and Saivite mystics.
fml

>>19139254
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRGz1b9M9u0

>>19129988

Charity and community work is something we deo, definitely, but the primary role of going to lodge is self-improvement. That can take many different aspects, but surrounding yourself with other men who want to make themselves and the world a better place is like a force-multiplier on wanting to be a better man.

There's lots of different angles you can attack it from. Personally I'm ALL OVER the esoteric side of Freemasonry, there's just so much stuff there.

Good news friends I have returned. Any questions please let me know.

>>19139350
You could at least use my old trip with the A1WA5 output.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bceuEpMxzfM

>>19139350
can you please give your take on these?
>>19138736 >>19139117

also sorry but this >>19139117
was ment for you >>19138773

>>19139386
Kek.

>>19139160
Ape are there books In the mega you would recommend to start exploring the Tantric side of Chumbley?

>>19127263
Hhahaha friends will Bill on facebook, talk with him every so often, he is such a con artist hippy it's pathetic

>>19139429
>Tantric side of Chumbley
>Eastern (Near/Far)
Gathas/Yasna (or the Avesta, these are Zoroastrian scriptures. The material of most note is related to Zahak and/or various dragons)
A King's Book of Kings (see above)
“Yezidism: Its Background, Observances, and Texts”, I think some of the Yezid influence comes via the hymns in this book.
Anything that will give you a basic foundational understanding of Arabic astronomy/astrology/astrotheology, etc.
Kali Kaula by Jan Fries
Kaulajnananirnaya
Kiss of the Yogini
Triadic Heart of Shiva
Anandalahare
Hevajra Tantra
Shri Yantra and the Sidereal Astrology (Lokanath)
Tantraloka
Paratrisikavivirana

Spandakarikas if you're feeling immersive but for the purposes of CS you can probably pick up the concepts as you go.

Keep this in mind. Spandakarika refers to a throbbing. Not vibrations. Not waves. Not physics. Not music.

>>1913945
Thanks friend. Bump

>>19139455
How essential do you think the practice of ingesting poisons such as Mercury and Cinnabar were to the Kaula's? As far as I can tell a majority of them were dosing themselves and alchemy seems to be a deep part of their Philosophy.

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>>19139117
>speaking the name of Jesus can BTFO any evil spirit
>Is Christianity the final red-pill
Short answer: no

Is eclecticism compulsory in occult practice?

Is the Abramelin work a complete system? From he start it seems to be directed to beginners (purification, prayers, etc), to develop to an intermediate level (hard evokation of kings and princes, binding and so, making it serious business) and finally to become "advanced" till mastery that will be the moment you meet your HGA. Thoughts?

Also can it be adapted to our time and age? Did anyone perform it successfully that leaved any record and such?

>>19140752
>Also can it be adapted to our time and age? Did anyone perform it successfully that leaved any record and such?
Crowley did it and apparently made some changes to the process, Ape probably knows more though

I had a dream about a little spider creature. Can anyone identify it?

>the size of a spider
>3 legs
>3 eyes
>dog shaped head

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>>19139160
>BTW, welcome to the First Order of Initiation, anyone with Eyes to See.
Dang, no eyes

>>19139296
>>you will never live in The City of Lady-Moon along the Oxus smoking dank opium-laced temple hash and learning at the feet of Zoroastrian, Platonic, Buddhist, and Saivite mystics.
that hit me gut,head, heart and throat, on the other hand, cheap and varied enough food and medical care and access to stuff like your library so I've got an honest shot at forty years of informed study and practice. Could be worse?

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>>19140752

It's completely doable in the modern age if you're serious about it instead of a weekend warrior wizard who wants gain without loss. No, it is not a "complete system" it's simply an operation meant to represent the stages of the development of the wizard 'compressed down' so that the effort of it bypasses the flaws instilled in us by society and mortality.

>>19140790
Crowley never finished Abramelin ritual.

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>>19140811
Pic for reference (sorta). It's like this with 3 spider legs and a dog shaped head.

Heyo friends, if anyone can find Hellenistic Astrology by Chris Brennan in PDF, I'll paypal you 5 USD. I need it for a class and it's 48 bucks, shit is killing me.

Also if anyone is interested in taking a year long astro course with a classically trained Hellenistic astrologer, starts today...dude offers payment plans, you have 6 hours to register

>>19141141
Lemme look.

>>19141153
>>19141141
I got nothing but it looks interesting.

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>>19127209
Any books/magick that helps with sexual function?

>>19140957
Not sure anon, but even if you are able to get a decent answer, just remember that "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar." I only say this because people have literally gone crazy by over-analyzing and over-interpreting random occurrences, which seems to happen all the effing time on this board.

>>19138944
>LAShTAL.com

LELELEL

>>19132883
He looks like an armchair guy, and from everything I have heard, his looks indeed betray him.
>hitler mustache
>girlish figure, except malnurished
>drinks own piss

He'd make a decent catamite, I guess.

>>19133474
Lol. I seem to remember someone at a lodge in...Baltimore maybe? Whose motto was something like "Shooting Star." In English. I shit ye not

>>19133907
Much interest, indeed. Thank you for responding. I have been away from internet for a day or two. I see I have a lot of reading ahead. I have a good feeling about this!

>>19134063
Which is more like astronomy, if we're talking real, dawg. But astrology definitely comes into play RE: knowing the attributes of the "planets" and signs, etc.

>>19135022
Wow what an autistic explosion!11
Also, he had been off heroin for quite some time before he died. But blaming someone for taking medication for the condition that ultimate killed them, is about as autistic as it gets. I think the anons who ad hom attack Crowley mistake admiration for his work with obsession and infatuation with him personally. However, I don't see anything wrong with setting the recors straight, as the actual facts of almost everything he did in life are pretty much all in Ape's library. but typically the people you see attacking Crowley for things he did that sting their feelies are people who couldn't grok his work. Almost unfailingly.

>>19134610
The Star Ruby. IDK you could always google "elemental banishing rites" but be ready to wade thru a mountain of shit.

>>19137555
I would call it too broad, and I get the impression the anon you are replying to is a psych-model pleb. Also, very likely JoS

>>19139117
>f on how to do "good" or "white" magic or am i just a dumbass and i don't belong here? is there stuff dedicated to only contacting "benefolent" spirits or was Crowley right with the electricity analogy?
"Do what thou wilt" doesn't mean "do whatever the hell you want and damn the consequences." Crowley has written volumes analyzing every inch of Liber L, and plenty about the "True Will." It's not a secret. Also, IDK that Crowley is defined as LHP. Perhaps he is, but doesn't really come across that way to me. I suppose I would have to know the proper definition of LHP to judge. However, I don't recall reading anything by Crowley about magick that's not "Benevolent." In fact, he defined black magick as any magick that is not used, either directly or indirectly, to attain the K&C of HGA and carry out the Work.

>>19139111
You're going to find things digress more and more from the dualistic perspective as you delve into occultism

>>19140864
19140864
He was called away from Boleskine by either Mathers or Jones, and did indeed interrupt the Abramelin Ritual, but he clearly carried out some form or another and did attain and maintain the K&C of his HGA.

>>19141276
You're probably right. I just thought I'd look into it since spiders seems to be a reoccurring theme in my dreams.

>>19141190

I can do you a scan when I am inevitably forced to buy it. Same email address that paypalled you the other month.

The teacher is a crackerjack astrologer.
Here's his website if anyone is interested in a classical astrologer who does a daily forecast + an associated I Ching cast for the day.

http://www.nightlightastrology.com/

again, registration is til 7pm EST, when the first class starts. Anyone who is interested can kick him an email, he does need-based tuition, especially for those who are students or have health issues that limit their ability to work full time. Good guy.

>>19141526
I hear ya. Check this out:
>Past winter
>two spiders hanging out on my living room ceiling
>kill them
>next morning, two more
>kill them
>next morning, two more
>not one
>not three
>not four
>two spiders
>every effing time
>I was smashing them with a swiffer and chucking them in the garbage
>so it's not like I just wasn't killing them to begin with
Spider reincarnation? Or just a cigar? Pr something else? It can be fun to speculate, I just don't want you to go nuts like what seems to happen to so many people on here. Of course, most are nuts to begin with!

>>19141630
By the way, this didn't happen just 3 times... this happened almost every day until about April.

Has anyone else been having issues with Captcha? Sometimes it makes me re-do it up to three times, even if I click on all the matching squares, beginning, like, last friday?

>>19141630

I went to an "alchemical fire festival" last weekend and there was a spider so big that i could hear it rustling around on my tent to the point that I thought it was a small mammal bustling around in the undergrowth. I opened the zipper of my tent to shine my flashlight out there and see what it was and bam, the spider drops down on her web and dangles, swinging in open tent through the gap I'd just opened, back and forth. I was like no NO NO NO and it just swung there, in and out of my tent for the longest 10 seconds of my life until the momentum died down enough and I zipped that thing up so fast. WEWWW.

Anyway, spiders in some myths are a universal creatrix, and can also symbolize projecting problems that are actually internal to you onto your partner. Fun fact.

>>19141673
Interesting on that last bit. I have some arachnaphobia that I need to work out... I used to have a problem with heights, but rock climbing more or less forced me to conquer it, so I'm trying to develop a system along those lines to help me get over spiders.