Occultism & Magick

>>19112175
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqMfWwnLtKg

>>19112175
I fully recommend anyone who wants to dive into text about things and stuff; check out the library.

Any texts on culture of the occult, it's ties to mythology, or general esoterica?

>>19112295
All over my Euro, Grimoires and A.'.A.'.>Philosophy folder, and maybe academia plus Amerind/Meso/Shamanism.

https://youtu.be/EpDmklLFXVc

>>19112301
Thank you! Wasn't sure this was the place to ask about non-magic stuff.

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>>19112331
If it's in the library it's fair game, I guess.

>mfw our installations curator got fucking fired so now I have to to into work early next week because it's me and one other person curating and managing exhibits for a 160,000 objects

>>19112175
Hello, i have been a lurker for around 1,5-2 years here. I want to start practicing occult, not just reading about it in my free time. Can you recommend any good works to "get out of my armchair" and delve into the practical side?

Is Initiaton into Hermetics from Franz Brandon a good start?
Should i consider Summoning Spirits by Konstantinos?

>>19112370
>Is Initiaton into Hermetics from Franz Brandon a good start?
No.

>Should i consider Summoning Spirits by Konstantinos?
Maaaaaybe...I wouldn't use it as a primary source for starting.

Work the LBRP for a few months and get back to us.

>>19112374
Thank you for your help.
Where should i get the source for the ritual? I have searched it multiple times over the years but they always differ in minor deltails.

>>19112374
>is initiation Into Hermetics by Franz Bardon a good place to
I'm always going to counter your answer on the matter with a resounding yes. But as again, no hard feelings. Just my two cents.

>>19112370
It's a waste of time.
You cannot chose the timing awakening,it is fate.
You can anticipate the day a little,but really it does not make much difference.

Do not try to understand things that are too difficult for you, or try to discover what is beyond your powers.
Concentrate on what has been assigned you, you have no need to worry over mysteries.
Do not meddle with matters that are beyond you; what you have been taught already exceeds the scope of the human mind.
For many have been misled by their own notions, wicked presumption having warped their judgement.

- Sirach (iii. 21–24)

>>19112447
Well, awakening is not my primary goal, a have a lot of karma to work down/things left to do/[insert what fits your belief in the aspect of human life]
It interests me and i have a passion for it, thats it.

>>19112175
hey ape, you did the work of the dragon book of essex right?

Been meaning to ask you about how it ended / what you took from it ?

>>19112459
nothing works before awakening,it's just inferiority complex.
As i said it's a waste of time,how did i know you were not awake?
Oh well youngsters these days do not listen anyway

>>19112370
"Learning Ritual Magic", 3rd edition of "Circles of Power" and "Paths of Wisdom" by J.M. Greer.

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https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2015/05/07/weaponized-sacredness/

>>19112268
groovy
>>19112489
Good article. Too bad the author is an anti natalist pleb

>>19112489
That's the picture I meant to have saved or at least made visible to me.

How can I get started in necromancy?

So more or less a couple of months ago I evoked Seere. My request was something related to someone else's project, I needed something in that project to go as I wanted to. I asked for absolute proof that he would make it happen until yesterday, and even though things in the project are going slightly better, it's obvious he didn't fulfill my request.
How am I supposed to proceed now?

>>19113177
How did you evoke him? Did you use any bindings?

>>19112370
Check out "The Middle Pillar" By Israel Regardie and work the rites in there. Summoning Spirits is OK, but he makes the conflations of Dr. Rudd, which apparently every modern book on the subject does. That book is what got me practicing. his exercises are ok, But I'll take book 4 and Liber O any day.

http://www.iapsop.com/

There's some gems in here

>>19112391
http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Lesser_Ritual_of_the_Pentagram
>>19112420
Well, it's not initiatory, and it's not Hermetic. Lol, same as the last thread RE "Kybalion.

>>19112474
>Ego tripping this hard
Chickity check yoself, nig.

>>19113177
I'm inclined to say: Evoke that fuck again and give the ultimatum. However, I would be interested to know how you went about the evocation first.

>>19112465
I believe he is still working it. Pretty sure that's what the ZHA Rite from the last thread is referencing.

What is the proper way to hold a wand? I'm sure there's not a single "right" way, but ever since I saw a pic of Crowley giving the Sign of the Enterer with the tip of his wand even with the tip of his finger, I have been curious what that is all about?

>>19112175
Last thread died before I could get any response.

The supreme method of silence. I'd like to know more about it, but I can't seem to find anything that elaborates on it, only a mention in a Thelemite book.

>>19112489
Hey Ape I was looking through the library, is there anything on necromancy in there?

>>19113678
Look up the "Four Powers of the Sphinx." I think Crowley touched on it in Liber ABA

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I realize this is only tangentially related to the thread topic, but can anyone kindly point me toward good resources for learning Sanskrit?

>>19112175
How do I summon Papa Legba? Do I just show up at the crossroads or do I need to do a whole ritual thing?

>>19113833
You stop spamming the fucking board and actually read some Vodoun texts. There might even be some in the Afro-Carrib folder up top in the mega link.

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>>19113676
Hold it loosely in your hand usually but with a firm grip. Your intuition will guide you.
>Inb4 dick jokes
It really is similar to handling your rod through, now that I've thought about it for a minute.

Can I use a knife or dagger as a wand or does it need to be a wooden stick item?

>>19113882
You can use a knife or dagger, but it won't be a wand. See "Magick: In theory and Practice" for symbolism of the magical weapons. Its symbolism is of air, and the mind/mental plane.

>>19113384
>>19113589
Admittedly it was my first evocation so basically I followed the guide to the letter, after reading a couple of the basic books first.
I did feel his presence during the evocation but it could be me imagining things. It's easy to say that though when you don't have proof of the existence of spirits.

In any case all that matters in my life right now is this project so I'm devastated to see that it didn't work. I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

>>19113882
You can. Its an aggressive item so keep that in mind.

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>>19113763
www learnsanskrit org

Seems like a decent place to start. I would also recommend checking youtube.

For example:
https://youtu.be/FK9YOsF7w08

It will be a little challenging for native English speakers, but it is not the most difficult language to learn.

>>19113908
Well, evoke again and give the ultimatum. Did you invoke using GRH and Bornless? Or just GRP? Also, how long have you been working with the lesser rites, etc.? The progressive states of "consciousness" (for lack of a better term) Throughout the Rites have a considerable impact on the Working itself. For evidence we need look no further than Crowley's illuminated manuscript of Samekh. What a lot of these books don't cover is what you're supposed to do beyond going thru the motions, which I realized when I first dug Samekh.

>>19113987
I meant "Or just GRH?

How does one" Make the sign of the Sun and moon conjoined"? Simply trace it in the air in the direction appropriate to the nature of the rite? Thanks in advance.

>>19113987
I did Bornless too. What do you think I did wrong then? I mean I know that you guys get this question a lot here but how can I know for sure that what I'm doing is going to give me a result?
People here suggest that the Goetia aren't dependent on one's level of belief but they are actual entities, so if I followed everything to the letter I should have had my results, right?

>>19114053
I believe they are actual entities. I don't have as much experience as others, but in my opinion it's kinda like this: fish exist, but if you don't use the right size hook, the right bait, cast and jig/whatever else properly, then, after all that, set the hook properly, you don't get the fish.

Check the third rite down in this link (Samekh) for reference. It's a lot more than just going thru the motions.

http://solve-et-coagula.us/ritual/astarte.php

>>19114067
I mean, Regardie recommends performing the lesser rites of the pentagram daily for a YEAR before even forming an opinion on them... So imagine how much practice it takes (a lot of which depends on the individual practitioner, of course) to gain proficiency in the greater rites.

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>>19114053
>but they are actual entities
I am not sure what they are.

Some bear the names of very powerful beings and in some cases primordial gods. None of these beings are known for doing peoples bidding for the bread and water.

Thought forms? Opportunistic entities? Who knows?

>>19112349
Love the flourish.

>>19114090
PS I hope I don't come off as antagonistic, there are just so many grey areas in this art, and I'm only speaking from personal experience. hopefully someone with more experience, like an actual adept, can comment

>>19112175
OOOHHH how that OP pic sums up this thread.

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>>19114234
Where is all the fighting?

I occasionally see philosophical and spiritual debates. But fighting?

Are you talking about some form of hddn-wyzardly-wytch-war, or?

>>19114279
Haha no I'm not a dickmoo or a keksucker. I just mean petty squabbles, and some of the self-trolling and internal melee that goes on. None of it is *not* fun, though.

>>19114121
I wouldn't mind if they were thought forms actually, as long as they do the job. Unfortunately from what it looks like, they don't, but if there's someone experienced out there that can point to me what I did wrong I'm willing to try again.

>>19114227
Not at all, actually I doubt anyone here can say for sure what they are no matter their level of experience.

>>19114321
Well, I can at least assure they DO do (haha he said doodoo) the job, when done right. But again, it's hard to say what went wrong. I would seriously recommend following the part where you evoke it again and issue the "if you are not for me, you are against me" ultimatum.

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>>19114287
>Haha no I'm not a dickmoo or a keksucker.
(shrug)
I did not take you for either one or any of the many others that show up here, friend.

>I just mean petty squabbles, and some of the self-trolling and internal melee that goes on.
Ah! I understand now. Sorry I am rather slow today...

>None of it is *not* fun, though.
True.

As long as no one is harmed, and our library/librarian remain intact, I am a happy Isib.

>>19114391
It's just that those are the only two factions of that level of retardation that I am personally aware of. And I am a satisfied Sahib!

>>19114287
Some tripfriends squabble for a brief moment sometimes. Another odd thing about these threads is the amount of people who type like Ape. The influence is uncanny.

>>19114321
You didn't make yourself clear enough. Or rather, forceful enough.

Nobody's gonna do your bidding if you don't back it up with something. You should try the chains or something.

>>19114435
Really? I have NEVER misidentified someone else as Ape. I always thought he had an inimitable style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aten9vCRvA

>>19114445
>an inimitable style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw2MjRcVO4g

>>19114450
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8fX54A7PoE

>>19114504
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roxxhOxnupM

>>19114525
Lel that sounds like something my buddy Todd would write. he made an entire album of songs like that, called "Nasty Ones"

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>>19114435
Many of us are fairly well read and practice proper grammar. I suppose, this could be a source of confusion?

Although, my accent does peek through via sentence structure from time to time.

>>19114321
>I wouldn't mind if they were thought forms actually, as long as they do the job.

The ceremonies are structured in such a way that they should work regardless of what forces are actually at play. Perhaps some meditation is needed in order to hone your ability to concentrate your intent with greater intensity?

Or perhaps this anon has the right idea: >>19114445

>>19114450
Or perhaps people like ourselves do so much reading and writing that our style bears a similarity due to proper punctuation, vocabulary, etc.

>>19114540
The immediate influences on my diction are:
>Lovecraft
>Colin Wilson
>RAW
>Hunter Thompson
>Crowley
>Korzybski/Fuller
>Curcio
>Merleau-Ponty/Bataille
>Kurt Rudolph
>Turner, Taylor, Hill, Goode, Whitehead, and a few other anthropologists

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>>19114574
>Lovecraft
>Colin Wilson
>Hunter Thompson
A few of my all time favorites.

>anthropologists, archaeologists, linguists
Due my particular interest, these are far too numerous to list.

Read an interesting piece by George A. Barton earlier today. But my long time favorites are R. Campbell Thomson and Samuel Noah Kramer.

Without JSTOR I would likely become a penniless hermit residing in a hilltop book-fort somewhere in this desert...

How does one get into necromancy, I have started to read Forbidden Rites, but it seems like there is also other sources. What kind of magick can be done with necromacy?

>>19114540
You're the most annoying person who ever lived

>>19114780
Why are you so upset, anon?

>>19114540
I wasn't talking about the grammar. Let me give you an example:

I *wasn't* talking about the grammar, let me give you an EXAMPLE. Zozzle.

Guys, I want to get into Tarot, what book should I read first?

>>19114807
The point you are attempting to make is?

>>19114807
>I *wasn't* talking about the grammar, let me give you an EXAMPLE. Zozzle.
NVM, I understand now.

Sorry, I am a bit slow today...

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Joyofsatan is a pretty good site if you want to summon demons without having to tie into Judeo-Christian energies.

"To summon a God/Demon using the methods in the book, one would have to call upon the multiple names of the Jewish “God”, praise the Jewish “God”. Then, you would need to curse the God/Demon you are tring to summon, and demand the God/Demon appear “in the name of” the Jewish “God”.

The Ars Goetia is where techniques like 9-foot circles, requiring a God/Demon to have a “license to depart,” and sealing Demons in a vessel of brass originate from."

https://truthsatanas.wordpress.com/2017/05/02/concerning-goetia/

>>19114960
>believes in demons
>doesn't make some storm god his bitch

>>19114960
Now, JoS get's a lot of shit in these threads.

I'd like to know why.

Are they Larpers, do their methods not work or are purely psychological?

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>>19114960
>>19114964
Goodness, *look* at all this delicious BAIT. Zozzle.

>>19114989
>Larpers
>do their methods not work
>purely psychological

I wonder who this seemingly approachable skeptic could possibly be?

>>19114989
Everything I have tried on the website works, check out the meditation & the witchcraft section, it's basic magick that revolves around core principles of the occult - imagination, vibration, energy and thought control. The content itself is pretty irreligious, it does not require you to make any "pacts" or invoke any "angels". Nor do you have to starve yourself, go vegan, or drink piss, etc. One or two of the meditations involve meditating on Satan and they are not mandatory, partake in them if you wish. The website is admittedly outdated and the black/red scheme puts easily scared people off.

There's also pages on the website that showcases many examples of Christianity blatantly stealing from the Pagan traditions so that's bound to make enemies from YHVH's flock of sheep. JoS is opposed to the Semitic religions, Judaism, Christianity, Islam as these religions have kept occult knowledge from reaching the masses.

Lastly, it's no secret how many charlatans and false gurus are out there in the occult "business". Valuable occult practices freely available keeps their wallets empty and their eyes teary.

>>19115044
>JoS is opposed to the Semitic religions, Judaism, Christianity, Islam.
>joy of SATAN
>SATAN

What did they mean by this?

Perhaps it was merely another way of saying, ZOZZLE?

>>19115058
Basically, JoS considers Satan to be an alias, a title of the Chief God of the Anunna, known to the Sumerians as Enki, to the Hindus, Shiva, also Odin, Ptah, Ea and others. In Paganism each tradition had different names for the same Gods that embodied the same traits. The title was changed but the spirit was kept, so to say. Common symbols of Satan include the Serpent(Kundalini) and the Peacock.

He is called Satan by Theistic Satanists because the name holds inherent power in Sanskrit, one of the oldest languages. SAT, coming from SATYA means Truth. AN from ANANTA, means Eternal or Unlimited. So the name together means Eternal Truth.

This has, like many concepts in pagan traditions, been corrupted by Abrahamic faiths. Judaism has translated SATAN as "adversary" or "enemy".

So to summarize, the JoS concept of Satan does not view Satan as evil, or a devil ruling over a lake of fire, or a red skinned man or anything like that. It is seperate from the Biblical defamations.

Even still, they did a poor job of showing Satan in a bad light. He offered knowledge and free will to Adam and Eve. In the Bible they describe countless atrocities committed by YHVH, leading to the deaths of millions. Here's an amusing fact. If I recall correctly, going by kill count alone, "God" has killed over 2 million and Satan has killed ten in the bible.

>>19115147
You think like a 15yo.

>>19112370
Read the books Modern Magic by Donald Kraig, Mystical Qabalah by Dion Fortune, The Kybalion, and the Pictorial Key to the Tarot by A.E. Waite

>>19113143
That depends, what's your view of/on death?

>>19115017
Lol. I'm legitimately interested. I'm not in on anything if that's what you think. I've just seen JoS mentioned here in a bad light many times.

>>19115187
That death is only the next step in a humans path

>>19115217
Also.

>>19115147
This anons post is very anthropologically unsound, going off of what I know.

I've read some of the stuff and it does seem very dubious. But I'd like someone else (preferably more experiences in the occult) to give an opinion.

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>>19115147
>Basically, JoS considers Satan to be an alias, a title of the Chief God of the Anunna, known to the Sumerians as Enki
He is the Lord of the Earth and father of Marduk enmasmassu.

Godhood was handed over to Enlil by Anu before ascension, for lack of a better term. Enlil is the god responsible for sending the flood.

>SAT, coming from SATYA means Truth. AN from ANANTA, means Eternal or Unlimited. So the name together means Eternal Truth.

Yes, that is all well and good, but why even use the term in the first place? Unless impressing the chronically edgy is your end goal?

>This has, like many concepts in pagan traditions, been corrupted by Abrahamic faiths.

No argument, but did you really expect shock at this revelation in an occult thread of all places?

>He offered knowledge and free will to Adam and Eve.

Yes, hence the Enki reference.

>If I recall correctly, going by kill count alone, "God" has killed over 2 million and Satan has killed ten in the bible.

Not the best marketing angle. Perhaps if I was ALOT younger and completely irrational, this might give me a bumper sticker slogan to hurl at those dang Christians!

If you think satan is Enki, then you will need to add many more digits to that score.

The main problem I have with the whole concept, is that there is no possible way to shoehorn Enki into the box JoS has invented for him. Enki is not known for handing out magical knowledge to every "swinging dick" with an axe to grind. As a matter of fact he is well known for causing people with such predisposition a considerable amount of harm.

You want that girl to like you? You want easy money? Or perhaps you want to be a "bad ass" magician. Well then the Annuna are not the pantheon for you.

Sorry if come off as brash, but there is really no other way to state my opinion.

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>>19115217
>I'm not in on anything if that's what you think.
You do sound alot like a certain person, that tends to say those very things.

>I've just seen JoS mentioned here in a bad light many times.

I have many things mentioned in bad light here at one time or another.

>>19115342
Hey, I can't think of a way to prove it.

>>19115282
I guess this answers some of my questions though.

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>>19115458
JoS gets a bad rap because it just makes shit up and it is run by people who are so anti social that they got kicked out of the Brotherhood of National Socialists. I'm sure a lot of the beginner material on their website "works" because it is all stolen part and parcel from various hermetic and Left Hand Path sources. You would be better off moving on to something better or more interesting.

>>19115546
Yeah I guessed as much. I'm not a complete beginner, just wanted to see what they were about.Thanks.

How can I sell my soul for money? Is such a thing even possible? My father and brother both lost their jobs within a 3 week period, and things aren't looking good. I've been trying to make whatever money I can but I cannot possibly support them with my income. I'm willing to do whatever it takes.

>>19115711
>How can I sell my soul for money?
That's a meme

Try sigils for some small side cash.

Read the /sum/ pastebin in the OP post.
Summon a goetic, see what you can do.

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>>19115458
>Hey, I can't think of a way to prove it.
No problem, I may have been wrong.

>>19115546
I did not want to be the one to say it, but...

>Brotherhood of National Socialists.
Seriously?!?!

>>19115711
Just to be clear. This is an example of when the Annuna are more than happy to intervene.

>Sell my soul.
Step one is to ditch that mentality.

I hope that everything works out for you anon.

>>19112175
Noob questions.

I want to use magic for skill development. I think evocation might be the thing. Good idea, or would spellcasting be easier?

Some people claim I should not evoke in my apartment because smells, energies etc. Should I go off to some forest or a graveyard? It's a bitch, especially if you try to do this daily, to create a relationship.

>>19115798
Doing evocations daily?

>>19115816
I understand that is how you create a relationship with a spirit.

>>19115774
Thank you for the kind words. I'm somewhat new to this thread, but I'm an armchair reader of a lot of occult topics. I know of the Annunaki, but how does one go about evoking them? If my ignorance shows, I apologize. Should I evoke them like any other Goetic entity?

>>19115842
I just give offerings. Evoking daily seems to me as annoying. But then again, I'm not too experienced.

>>19113833
Type that in google, theres tons of sites to tell you how to do so.

>>19115044
>JoS is opposed to the Semitic religions, Judaism, Christianity, Islam as these religions have kept occult knowledge from reaching the masses.

Now that sounds absolutely retarded on so many levels. Even the word "occult" itself should convey the message that it is meant to be hidden from the masses, to keep the esoteric out of exoteric religion.

Judaism (Kabbalah), Christianity (Rosicrucians, Templars etc.), Islam (Sufism) all have spawned occult traditions.

I still have no idea how you can keep "anti-semitic" attitude when backbone of rituals is probably based on some degree to the Tree of Life and Western hermetic tradition in general.

On the other hand, I can appreciate employment of Anti-Christian imagery in terms of empowerment, mottos and constructing your own Qabalah, like Crowley calling himself "The Great Beast" from the Apocalypse.

I myself have (re)constructed some rituals that employ Father, Son & The Holy Ghost with Satan, the Antichrist, and the False Prophet (or Blasphemer) respectively.

Then again, this is not some Theistic affirmation for me, but more of a Qabalistic symbol -games.

Hello autism and magick general, is there a group proper worth joining?

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I finished the Petit Albert. It's my first grimoire I've actually finished reading. I still have so many to pore through, but... small victories. I nevertheless feel accomplished. Though I was hoping to delete things as I finished reading, and obviously I will need it that one for future reference.

>>19116627
>a group proper
Why on earth would you want to do that? Aren't books enough?

I want to perform a goetic summoning but am completely new to all of this.

What would be a good route for someone whose only goal is to achieve a physical manifestation and nothing else? There's so much conflicting information on the goetia I'm not even sure where to begin.

>>19116991
>a good route for someone whose only goal is to achieve a physical manifestation and nothing else

Probably "don't bother" would be my best guess.

>>19115254
They just make up history to suit their needs basically. For example, they claim Sufis are "Satanists" and think the Al-Jilwa is Satanic, and also that M---k T--s is an incarnation of satan, more or less. Absolutely batshit

>>19116627
Shit dawg, why you be as'sin us? We juss sum humbal autiss'. Why ain't you re-such fo yo own seff?

>>19115044
Hey, people get "results" from Bardon, Kraig, Firth, and Hubbard, but that doesn't make any of them worthy of honorable mention (MAYYBE Firth because I'm feeling generous)

>>19114815
The Book of Thoth

>>19114807
Zozzle is an onomatopoeia. It's like saying, these people all make a "hahaha" sound when they laugh (or type it out, if online) Therefore they are either all the same person, know each other, are intentionally imitating each other, or at least speak the same language. Which would be to entirely miss the concept behind aforementioned onomatopoeia.

>>19114279
You don't want to get involved in that kind of shit. I was a while ago. Everyone lost.

Any recommendation for practical luciferian stuff that isn't written by angry edgelords?

>>19117357
Luciferians, by their nature, are a little edgy. Depends if you want theistic or atheistic? I'd look into the LHP folders in the OP.

I have found lately that the Work has required a lot of solitude and quiet reflection, making it hard to devote attention to my relationship. How can I explain to my girlfriend the importance of the undertaking? She's fairly accepting of it all, I just have a hard time believing she actually UNDERSTANDS. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe she cannot grasp it unless she undertakes the Work herself. Any suggestions? Thanks.

>>19112175
any discord servers?

>>19117460
theistic

>>19117460
>I'd look into the LHP folders in the OP.

>koettig
try hard shit
>lavey
fraud
>ONA
MI5 blackops
>temple of set
edge lords

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>>19117509

>>19117516
Not my problem you've got shit taste luv

>>19117357
>>19117509
Aren't you just describing all of the Luciferian path? What the fuck do you even want?

>>19117509
>LaVey: Fraud
[citation missing]

>>19117509
man people on 4chan sure love talking about shit they don't actually know anything about. I'm reasonably educated on the LHP so I'll give this a whirl.

>koetting
1/10, fucking cancer, Good for a laugh and not much else. If you're particularly knowledgeable about anthropology and the history of Magick it is kind of fun to read his "grimoires" to figure out what traditions he is ripping off and why.
>Anton Lavey
5/10, your mileage may vary. Honestly I always found his work kind of disappointing although reading about the shenanigans the Church of Satan got up to is extremely entertaining and informative and I would recommend reading the Michael Aquino book about him. If you have a bad history with Xtianity and you are interested in the philosophy of "Secular Satanism" you may want to look into his work.
>ONA
7/10 good luck finding an active Nexion that hasn't been destroyed because all their members joined ISIS or something. A large number of the "westerners" who join terrorist organizations are actually ONA members. Their introductory Magick works profoundly well and their more advanced systems of creating "quartz wheels" are some of the most interesting adaptations of gemology into a magickal system I have ever seen (the idea of which they almost certainly stole from the fraternis Saturni but I digress). If you don't like the "Edgy" aesthetic these folks are certainly not for you
>temple of set
9/10 I would unironically suck a penis to see their hidden material. They may or may not be accepting new members so if you actually care you should try and contact them on the "astral plane" where they are often quite active.

The reality is the "best" LHP organizations are going to be the ones that the public will never know about, so the best that you can hope for is to become the best Magick user you can be and await a shoulder tap from someone who thinks you have something to offer their current.

>>19117504
The "edgy" aesthetic of the LHP is actually completely necessary even though it is done poorly to the point of goofiness by many LHP groups. The more you talk to the active and verdant Shadow inside yourself and your inner Eye adjusts to see the myriad colors and forms lying within that darkness the more you will understand why that Aesthetic is the way that it is.

>>19115282
Well at least you actually have legitimate disagreements instead of the usual autistic screeching that occurs at any mention of the JoS.

It's clear that Genesis is just a jewish interpretation of older stories common to many sandnigger cultures. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Satan is their interpretation of Enki, as Enki opposed Enlil.

>>19117878
Well, 50of60 is very nice, but
>Implying that trash heap of autism is worthy of anything but disdain
Lol. Nice try, Andrea.

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>>19117878
JoS's little brainlet spammers have been trying to direct traffic to their site from here for ten years.

A decade.

Used to be on autoban. True story.

Fuck off back to /pol/ or something.

>>19117906
>Well, 50of60 is very nice
Yes, I found an actual argument to be very refreshing.

>>19117917
I think proselytizing is a mistake, so I disagree with the spam that some members like. It only garners negative attention.

>>19117942
No, I just meant they are a nice person in general, as displayed by their not immediately telling you to fuck off. The reason there isn't usually much of a substantial argument other than "fuck off" is like Ape said, they spam the fucking board, you CANNOT reason with them, and they are literally the pre-schoolers of all LHP orgs.

>>19117760
I know someone who knows the founder of ONA. It's been either infiltrated by MI5/6 for years or has been a british black ops for a long time.
That's why I don't give a shit about them.


Anyway I didn't ask about organizations, I asked after working grimoires that weren't full edgy Bible Belt survivor shit. Luciferianism using the trickster spirit archetype and not the "ahrimanic" archetypes.
The problem with all these organizations is that they're thought babies from anglosaxons who are suckling the tit from western esoterism. Which is not bad, on its own, but it's trite and boring in my opinion. Folk stories and true pagan (aka native spirituality/ old european spirituality) have locked on to that aspect of the devil as the initiator. That's what I'm looking for

>>19118047
>anglosaxons who are suckling the tit from western esoterism
>old european spirituality

these two things are not as different as you think they are. It's become kind of a cliche in this thread at this point, but Andrew Chumbley is probably the person you are looking for. His work with the "Devil/Initiator" archetype is about as old school pagan as it gets these days. Theres a bunch of his stuff on the Mega

>>19118047
>Any recommendation for practical luciferian stuff ?
> I asked after working grimoires...

Ok, anonson. You must have asked in that new font that disappears when someone looks at it.

Who was Frater D.D.S. Praemonstrator that we see in so many A.'.A.'. publications?

>>19118042
I mean you can't reason with somebody who thinks LBRP and Middle Pillar are worth a shit.

>>19118169
>Can't reason with any occultist worth their salt.
Oh?

>>19118169
Why, exactly, are you so butthurt about banishings and sefira rituals? Lemme guess, MUH JOOS?

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What's the deal with Abrahamic religion and Sumerian paganism anyway?

I've asked JoS people what they think and they replied 'space reptilians'.

I know Christianity adopted many European pagan traditions, but non of it on the same level as the old testament. There all the gods roles are replaced with YHWH and it makes no sense, he just comes off as absolutely mad.

>>19117783
Priestess Sevenleaf plz go

>>19118193
>evoking jewish thoughforms is better than actual spiritual work according to wizards on a weeb imageboard
It's so fucking gay dude. I tried, but it felt too fucking faggy to do them.

>>19118351
>Jewish thoughtforms
Lel
>I "tried"
Oh I'm sure you did. Probably the 1 year without coming to conclusions, exactly by the book, right?
>Felt too faggy
What are you, 12?
Bottom Zozzle.
2/10, would not recommend to friends

>>19118360
>do pranayama
>get results
>do mantras
>get results
>do visualizations
>get results
>do victorian reconstructionist jew worship
>feel like a fag
Hmmm

>>19118351
>"evoke"
Your terminological conflations and your middle-school adjectival phrasing have outed you as far too retarded for any "actual spiritual work." you may receive your Ruach, yet, anon.

>>19118389
Gee, if you hold the secret key to the vault of the adepts, why are you shitposting on an Indonesian wicker-weaving forum? Could it be, possibly, that you're full of shit? Or perhaps your obsession with Christism has led you to fall off the path altogether? More likely, though, is that you were never on any path to begin with.

>>19118389
Andrea Herrington called. She is stranded on the loo and needs her attendant to pluck her off the seat and wipe her ass. Shoo, mamma's calling you.

>>19118412
>no argument
>just incoherent rambling
Go do some LBRP to cleanse off that negative energy. I'll stick with pure visualization.

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This morning I took the time to read through the JoS website and forums.

Here is my take:
- I could not find any info on Sumerian incantations. No cleansing, evocations, consecrations. They do provide various spells, but these are not related to any rites of the Annuna.

- They do have a very general idea of some core concepts. I.e. the advancement of the human species and it's habitat. But...

- They are actual Nazi's?! This is where everything I wrote above takes a flying nose dive into the school of irrational thought in lieu of wisdom.

Now before you get upset and call me an SJW, hear me out:

- If the goal is to advance the human species and you claim to be in contact with the beings responsible for our creation. Then why are you employing such poor methodology?

- Why alienate countless of fellow human beings for bearing evolutionary adaptations to their particular environments? Is this adaptability not a product of Enki's design?

- Rather than spreading your message to countless potential allies, you place yourself into an unwinnable scenario. Not to mention the fact that you are in defiance of the very god's you claim to venerate.

I am neither all wise nor am I all knowing, what I have written is my opinion. However, I can say this opinion is universal among all of the initiates I have come across in my decades of practice and study.

Bit of a derailment, but speaking as someone who has always had a passing attraction to the occult but could never quite muster up the will to take serious steps down the path....

it's easy to say why you began walking down that road in the first place, but why do those of you who practice continue to do so? What sort of results have you had? Forbidden knowledge? Power? Money? Is all of that actually attainable through these practices, or is it more about spiritual prowess?

I know this is fairly typical but if I do anything more than read a few books in the library, I'd like to do it to learn some truths about the world or give myself a leg up in the world, or something like that. Not to just be spiritually sound, I suppose, though that may help in and of itself?

>>19118611
>but why do those of you who practice continue to do so?

The Great Work

>>19117917
They posted on /b/ for years

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>>19117878
>It's clear that Genesis is just a jewish interpretation of older stories common to many sandnigger cultures.

Hebrews are not the only culture that appropriated these stories. Not by a long shot. You will find VERY similar pantheons, creation epics, ethos all over the world.

>I don't think it's a stretch to say that Satan is their interpretation of Enki.

I completely agree that it is THEIR interpretation and they are welcome to their opinion. But I cannot see a logical reason for their conclusion outside of superficial association. Being a cathonic earth god of wisdom and water fails to check enough boxes to qaulify as satan, imo. That is like calling an airline pilot a pigeon because he flies and likes junk food.

>Enki opposed Enlil.

Their lineage forms the posts on the old tree of life. They are not enemies or adversaries and there is no shortage of those in Sumerian lore. The path to enlightenment lies in knowledge and balance. A middle path if you will.

>>19117917
>trying to direct traffic to their site from here for ten years.
All they have to do is master the rites of proper web design.

Then just sit back and let google do all the work.

Given the "unique" nature of their indexable text,
they would secure the #1 position for "Nazi Satanist" virtually overnight.

Question: Have the Eastern magical traditions experienced suppression, persecution, dilution, reconstruction, to the same degree that Western occultism has?
If not, can these traditions be regarded as more 'pure' by virtue of an unbroken line?

(Please forgive my ignorance of Eastern religious/spiritual history.)

>>19118923
Why are you trying to make sense of their crazy white nationalist bullshit. The best policy is to just tell them to fuck off when they start whining about the Jews or whatever

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>>19118951
>Question
Short answer, yes. Political and cultural influence tend to bend scripture to better fit current affairs and local norms. Given a few centuries a religion can turn into something it was never intended to be at its outset.

A longer answer would require a lengthy timeline filled with countless topics of debate.

>Please forgive my ignorance of Eastern religious/spiritual history.
No apology necessary.

>>19118951
Yes. Look at what's happening to the Falun Gong right now, not to mention the Tibetans. The good thing about the East is that even a lot of the ancient schools wrote their work down

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>>19118995
Because I believe everyone deserves to be treated fairly, until they become hostile.

It also gives me the opportunity to disambiguate people that worship the Annuna and organizations such as theirs.

Most people of similar practice are rather secretive and tend stay tucked away on obscure forums with other like minded people.

>>19119084
It just bothers me because there is occasionally really high quality discussion on this thread but it gets derailed so easily as soon as someone does even a little bit of trolling.

>>19118995
>crazy white nationalist bullshit
>The best policy is to just tell them to fuck off when they start whining about the Jews or whatever
I came into the thread wondering if there would be anything of value, but you've made it clear that will never be the case.

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>>19119263
>It just bothers me
Me too!

>there is occasionally really high quality discussion on this thread
True, there have been some really interesting discussions here. But then everyone has a different idea of what qualifies as interesting.

>but it gets derailed so easily as soon as someone does even a little bit of trolling.
I do find that rather disappointing. Not sure why people leave at the first sign of trolling. With that said there have been some trolls that were far too disruptive. This was not one of them, not even close.

>Tell them to fuck off.
I am pretty sure people like them are quite used to being told to fuck off. Trolls like to make people angry and telling them to fuck off, lets them know they succeeded.

>>19119395
this discussion is like saying hey trolls. come rape this thread.
you can be equal in the way you perceive and accept people, but don't expect them to do the same.
you have to wonder.
Are you here to hear something interesting or just to listen to the /b/ + /pol/ overflow?

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>>19119428
>this discussion is like saying hey trolls. come rape this thread.
What would you suggest?

>you can be equal in the way you perceive and accept people, but don't expect them to do the same.
There is something to be said for taking the highroad whenever possible. I wish more people could find it in themselves to do the same. With that said I had no idea who they were. I thought it was another person comparing Enki to satan because of christian scripture. Theological debate is something I find quite interesting.

>Are you here to hear something interesting or just to listen to the /b/ + /pol/ overflow?
I am honestly not really sure what you are implying? If you think I am here to listen to people say "magic doesn't reel guiz" or rolling out all the latest in racial epithets, then you are rather mistaken. Fun fun...

>you have to wonder.
Wonder away, I am sure whatever you have to say is far more interesting than what I am working on atm.

>>19118647

I was hoping to come back to more answers, or at least a bit more of an explanation....

but I did look a bit into this Great Work of yours. Crowley seems to see it as more of a spiritual enlightenment/self-fulfillment ideal, while a man named Eliphas Levi sees it more as...I guess to put it in fantastical terms, as a leyline of sorts?

I'm not attempting to troll, I am legitimately curious. Is there a tangible benefit, or shall I say a perceived tangible benefit to practicing the rituals outlined in these materials, or is it more for personal growth?

I'm not so new as to think this is about chucking fireballs or anything like that, but I'd like to hope for something more like...will manifests reality and less like...if you will it it will happen, if you get the distinction? Less self-help/psychology and more inexplicable happenings

>>19119689
The Great Work is what the Great Work means to you. For everyone it will be somewhat different but it usually has common elements like self knowledge and mystical transformation.
>Less self-help/psychology and more inexplicable happenings

Learn how to control your own ability to believe things, which requires disciplined control of your mind, which inevitably requires a fair bit of self knowledge. Knowledge of self is usually the beginning of the path no matter what your path is

>>19119515
>What would you suggest

Ignoring obvious trolls. You may gain something from engaging with the JoS people but general thread probably won't. Even when they are acting reasonable it's kind of obvious that they are stuck on their stupid hyper simplistic pseudo mythology which they cling to with fascistic ferver. Being a zealot can be helpful in the Occult arts but it tends to shit up group conversations which is why the JoS clowns inevitably derail threads

>>19119719

Well I guess what my inquiry boils down to then, and I'm not trying to be rude here, is whether or not it's worth it to proceed down the path? What can you do now that you've studied this field that you weren't able to do before?

Does it happen because you believe, or do you believe because it happens?

>>19119515
I said my piece.
You should try digesting what people say sometimes, it's not like everyone is out to fuck you in the ass.

>>19119745
>Ignoring obvious trolls.
Sorry, it was not obvious to me and I had no intention of derailing anything. The discussion was focused on an area of the occult I have an obvious interest in.

What would be a more appropriate topic for a group conversation?

How strictly does one have to follow the instructions of Goetic evocation?

Lets presume that you have enough knowledge of the occult, discipline, and have studied and worked various necessary practices/rituals.

How much could you simplify the evocation if some resources are unavailable? Has anyone experimented with this?

>>19119789
>You should try digesting what people say sometimes
Some people tend to digest things a bit faster than others. Just one of the many things that make us all different.

>it's not like everyone is out to fuck you in the ass.
That is why I mentioned giving people the benefit of the doubt earlier.

You seem upset for no apparent reason. Applying a but of logic to all of that intuition might yield clearer results.

Whats the most direct, minimalist way of altering consciousness without using substances or sleeping?

>>19120452
Various meditation methods
Sensory deprivation
Sleep deprivation

Where can I join the nearest esoteric order of Dagon?

>>19113566
Links broke my dude you got another one?

Ok y'all I know this has probably been asked many times before. Life long interest in the occult and all of that, where do I take my first step

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>>19120587
You will most likely get many different answers.
~My~ best answer would be to read as widely as you can about the various and different paths that others have taken. Find one that appeals to you personally.
If none of them do, then select the closest and start learning. Do not worry too much that it is not "perfect" because 1. it changes as you progress, and 2. you can change it as you progress.
Bon chance.

Any of you watched the movie A Dark Song? How realistic it is representing the Abramelin work, besides the fake sigils, drawings and such?

The movie makes me want to perform the whole ritual.

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Are there any entities, gods or forces people here are scared or extremely careful when working with?

Past 4 years all my workings with Rudra have resulted in violent situations, extreme conflicts etc.

In the long run, they have been experiences for the better, but such violent transformation and instant change of situations in very unpredictable manner is not exactly my cup of tea.

Even though Rudra/Shiva is the great transformer, I feel in the form of Rudra he is more wrathful deity than His auspicious Shiva form.

In a contrast, invoking Medicine Buddha Amitābha and working with his various mantras and meditation has brought periods of incredible peace and tranquility.

I also have same experiences with Thelemic deities or working with the Book of the Law in general, it seems to only produce friction in my life and make my relation with surrounding society only more difficult with a sense of isolation.

>>19120549

IDK anon. Eveyone always says these are broken when I post anything from thelemapedia, but when I copy and paste it shows up fine... maybe just go to Thelemapedia.org and use their search function, keywords "lesser ritual pentagram." Or you can go to Hermetic.com and look up the ritual, or "Liber O"

>>19119341
>you've made it clear that will never be the case.
LOL. And STAY out!

>>19118923
> calling an airline pilot a pigeon because he flies and likes junk food
Never change, Fi'ty o' Si's'ty. Never change.

>>19118440

>can't even dharana well enough to succeed at LBRP

It's kinda like this: To succeed in asana, you ought to be able to comfortably maintain the asana(s) for at least an hour, then move on to pranayama. To succeed in pranayama, you ought to able to do "x/y/z" cycle for an hour before moving on to the next, etc. Just like anything else, the banishing rites, the invocations, the god-forms...they all need to be practiced until perfection is attained. yes, you will (or at least SHOULD, unless you're totally inept) get results *before* achieving that perfection, but one cannot expect to get 'results' if one does not put the time in.
There's no reason someone highly trained in Yoga should *not* get at least some kind of result from the LRP, unless of course they let their prejudices cloud their judgement, and refuse to put the time in. Because, really, it makes no sense to say "I got results from all the other praxes, after putting the time in, but I'm going to decide that this one method I don't like is ineffective and produces no results, without putting the time in."
Silly Sailor.

>>19119773
Not that anon, but...I think you'd be surprised to read about how, specifically, Crowley defined the Work. It essentially consists of two major events: The K&C of HGA, and Crossing the Abyss. Now, there is a lot of fine print, and "The Work" can define whatever particular working is immediately at hand, provided it is being done in service (direct or indirect) to the Ultimate Work.

>>19120901
I can't say much about the first portion of your post, but I can say I have had nothing but positive (albeit intense) experiences with Liber L. Some interesting occurrences during the invocations following the "Feast for the three days of writing.." I also use portions of it as invocations for personal workings, all with promising effect.

I am also happy to say I have finally committed the entirety of Liber Samekh to memory. It's amazing what a bit of caffeine and ginseng can do for the foggy memory.

>>19120900
dunno but that angel was such a disapointment they were better off leaving just the white light

>>19121359
I agree. The cheap costume and cgi ruined that part, still I wonder about the Abramelin stuff in the movie.

>>19121364
Never seen it, but that's funny that they spent less on wardrobe for a Hollywood film than an actual practitioner would spend to carry out the operation...especially considering the difference in budget size! I'm gonna look into this movie now

>>19121359
dude looked like Benedict Cumberbatch in a Trojan helmet imo

>>19121408
>>19121408
So, I watched the trailer, and the premise is...confusing? Looks like they are working the Abramelin so she can talk to her dead son? PLEASE tell me I'm wrong.

>>19121463
Yes, to ask to her HGA that wish.

>>19120452
pranayama

>>19121476
Lel. Leave it to Hollywood.

>>19120452
http://solve-et-coagula.us/theology/yoga.php

Or you could spin around in circles until it feels like everything is moving when you stop.

>>19118069
Cheers, Anon, will take a look.

>>19118951
>>19118997
>>19119002
The Vedas are descended from persian texts, who were compiled for the sole reason of uniting the Persian empire using religion. Mithraism is a good example of the amount of distortions in near eastern and eastern religion.

>>19121476
So, completely misusing/misunderstanding a months-long operation to achieve something that an actual necromantic ritual, designed specifically for her purpose, could do in maybe a few days? Got it.

Question:
Since the Air spirits are "sylphs," the Fire spirits are "salamanders," the Water spirits are "Undines," and the Earth spirits are "Gnomes," What are the "Spirits of Spirit" collectively known as?

>>19121238

I don't doubt I would be surprised, there's some very interesting ideas at play here.

I just want to know if it's purely academic or if there are some legitimate practical applications here.

Like, maybe one or two stories from veteran practitioners about something they've done that's gotten direct results, and the degree of those results.

That's all I'm asking for, really. I'm not asking for anyone to justify their belief system or detail any rituals specifically, I'd just like something to hold onto.

Otherwise it's sort of like philosophy. Deep, full of complex ideas that are interesting to ponder, and attempts to provide some answers to why things are the way they are, but ultimately not many practical applications.

>>19119002

Those are just two examples. And even within those examples, the entire traditions are extant and active.

Even with the entirety Cultural Revolution, more has survived of China's mystical traditions than exists within the western tradition. And then there's India, which has faced a watering down due to New Age culture but no real significant violent repression.

The East has taken a beating over the last 60/70 years, but the West has been forced underground for nearly 2 millennia.

If you need any further proof, just look at the fact that every Western practitioner who follows the path far enough eventually ends up merging Eastern praxis into their work. There simply isn't enough left of the Western tradition to manage to practice it by itself.

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What are some actual, reliable occult/satanic books with blood rituals and shit? How do you tell what's bullshit and what's legit?

>>19121605
Why don't you try some shit out for yourself so you can see what happens? The "real" occult experiences are ultimately incommunicatable

>>19120587
Read then read some more followed by practice and yet more practice
Download the various mega libraries and get cracking

>>19121605
Well, there is a wide range of opinions as to things like "what the spirits are" and "what the Seferot are." Some subscribe to the spirit model, some subscribe to the psychological model, and some subscribe to the "neuro-psych" model. However, I think all of them would tell you they get results, even the ones who believe spirits are just a manifestation of an aspect of the mind of the operator. I personally subscribe to the spirit model, and get pretty decent results for what little I do.

>>19121643

That's an option, and one I'm willing to take, but if it all works off of belief, is it not easier to believe with some sort of testimony?

I also want an example of the degree of results one can expect. There's a middle ground between, say, no magick and "selling your soul to Lucifer for one year of extraordinary luck", as I believe was described earlier in the thread, after all.

>>19121622
That's a pretty serious oversimplification of the histories of eastern and western mysticism. Western mysticism hasn't been "forced underground" consistently for two millennia, there are innumerable examples of Xtian, Islamic, and Jewish schools of mysticism that have been part of the mainstream religious culture. When Kabbalah really hit the Safed school Judiaism utterly transformed as a religion, and that wasn't even that long ago relatively speaking. It's true that a lot of western mysticism is passed down in oral traditions and secret societies for legitimate political and social reasons but saying that "there isn't enough of the western tradition to only practice the western tradition" is a bald faced lie. As for people adapting religious traditions from other cultures, that happens all over the world. There are a ton of people in Japan practicing "western occultism" as a small example

>>19121677
I mean I would say it's better to be skeptical without expectations than to walk into a practice and be disappointed. I've had plenty of experiences that defy conventional logic and sense but only a few that I would say are "paranormal." The most "tangible" and consistent result you should expect from an early occult practice is batshit insane/interesting dreams

>>19121676

So like, give me an example. I've been reading some of the threads the past few days and some people say when they attempt to summon a spirit or one of these Goetian entities, while there isn't necessarily a physical manifestation of Orobas or Stolas or whomever, there are strange occurrences like flickering lights and animal freakouts nearby. Has this happened in your experience?

Also you say you've gotten results. What manner did these results arrive in? Some chain of events that can be rationalized away as "oh, that could have happened without interference" or in some inexplicable way that made it apparent the results were directly influenced by the spirit?

Is Crowley stuff really trustworthy? I've heard people on here say very negative things about his material

>>19121699
Not that anon but summoning is very freaky, the problem with it as a beginner practice is that it not only requires total suspension of disbelief but the direct channeling of belief into action. The more you open your mind to the reality of manifestation the more freaky shit happens and the more "physical" the manifestation becomes. I feel like you want the universe to suspend your disbelief for you but that's not really how it works I'm afraid.

>>19121713
Crowley is pretty solid but it depends on what specifically you are talking about, his more advanced stuff is full to the brim with Victorian style traps and blinds and can be dangerous if you fuck it up. However Magick in Theory and Practice is (unfortunately) still the best introduction to Magick ever written

>>19121728
>his more advanced stuff is full to the brim with Victorian style traps and blinds and can be dangerous
Like?

>>19121699
I usually get at least some sort of vapors during evocation. In fact during the last one I performed I was kind of disappointed because I didn't see anything but incense smoke (which in no way prevented me from carrying out the ritual as I could "sense" the entity). But upon disassembling, I found that my charcoal had been smothered by the resin, and the censer could not have possibly been smoking any time beyond the preliminary invocation (based on the massive amount of unburned charcoal left in the censer). So that was pretty cool, but not as spectacular as other experiences. Usually when you evoke and make a demand/request, things DO happen in a way that could be explained away by other means. But consistently having "a random chain of events that can be explained away," culminating in the desired result, after the vast majority of workings, it starts to look like something else is at play. There's a lot more to it and I won't go any further into my experiences, but I do recommend you check out Liber ABA

>>19121728
The reason I'm asking about Crowley is because I'm of the understanding it leans towards satanic stuff, am I right? I'm totally new to this stuff, former atheist, looking to see if this stuff is legit or not

>>19121684

>pretty serious oversimplification

This is 4chan. So yeah.

> Western mysticism hasn't been "forced underground" consistently for two millennia,

It depends on what we're defining as "Western mysticism," but by and large mystical practices which fall outside the purview of the mainstream institutions of the Abrahamic religions have been suppressed and forced underground.

here are exceptions, as you point out, but these exceptions are generally the ones that prove the point. If you compare the degree to which mysticism has pervaded, and been accessible within Eastern cultures, as opposed to European, the difference is incredibly vast.

There's a reason that people interested in these subjects went nuts for Eastern mysticism the moment that it became accessible through colonization, and that the flow of Eastern mystical texts and teachings sparked a revival in what remained of Western esotericism.

>there are innumerable examples of Xtian, Islamic, and Jewish schools of mysticism that have been part of the mainstream religious culture.

They've existed, I think saying they've been "part of the mainstream religious culture" is a bit much. Look at how the Catholic Church has treated such groups, historically. Even the Eastern Orthodox Church had to fight to keep the Hesychast tradition alive (luckily for them, they did so).

At the end of the day, for the majority of the last two thousand years, accessing these teachings has been exponentially easier for those born in East Asian countries than it has been for those born in European countries. As a result, the influence of mystical teachings and mystical thought on those cultures has been much greater (although of course I'm not trying to idealize them, they've had more than their shares of flaws).

>>19121713
Most people who shit talk Crowley either aren't intelligent enough to even understand what he is saying (which always blows my mind, as he was an English speaker), can't get over Christism (But muh joo words!), or think that not agreeing with every one of a person's life decisions invalidates all the Work they ever did. At least, That's what I have seen.
>>19121730
THIS, please?

>>19121737
You know the more I look into Crowley, the more I don't see it as satanic stuff. BUT I haven't read any of his books although when I got back from this trip I was going to look into it more.

>>19121737
Only in so far as Satan is associated with Tifaret AFAIK. So basically, "No, not at all."

>>19121745
>>19121743
Hmm okay, would you guys be able to point me in the right direction for more satanic-leaning books then?
>>19121742
Thanks I'll definitely check it out

>>19121753
Temple of Set material in the mega. Out of curiosity, why do you want satanism specifically?

>>19121559

ósa

>>19121753
I wouldn't know where to start to be honest. I am new to the occult in general

>>19121761
Its the only genre of occultism I'm really aware of and it resonates with me more than anything else I've read about on /x/. I don't really care for Egyptian or pagan lore or anything like that

>>19121753
You smell like you're out of your depth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v88dOpDa8yo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzVzoclmGIw

>>19121783
Then you might want to try Church of Satan, which is atheistic satanism. I really don't know of any theistic satanic organization that don't utilize graeco-egyptian/pagan/whatever lore.

>>19121731

Thank you anon, that's exactly what I've been asking for. It helps, trust me, and I appreciate your forthright answers.

>>19121728

Belief is a...very difficult subject for me. I will admit that some years ago back in 2012 I did dabble in tulpa. Yes, I get that it's not very respected here, but...I did do much research and I even put it into practice, which is unusual for me. I did experience some interesting things during that time but ultimately I became disillusioned with it when I realized it was basically all a product of my mind. Which I'd known all along, but I went ahead with it because it was supposed to feel real but in the end it was just a sad little man in an empty room talking to air.

Still, I miss it like it was a real person, is that weird?

Anyways, because of that I'm a little more skeptical when someone says that you have to believe to make it work, because it leads to circular logic. If it works because you believe, then that opens it up to...is it actually working or does it only look like it's working because that's what I want it to do?

>>19121517
>The Vedas are descended from persian texts
Where are the proofs?

>>19121789
this is what I was also going to suggest and depending where you are based out of you might find a local one near you where you can ask them questions in general in person and see how they do things

>>19121789
>>19121806
I'll look into it, thanks!

>>19121794
You're welcome. When it comes down to it, I think what matters most is that one gets the desired results (or at least, the results they need), much more so than what mechanism are at work causing those results to manifest. Once we get our results we can speculate more on that.
Pardon me if I sound like a chaote.

>>19121741
>Look at how the Catholic Church has treated such groups, historically.

While there is an unfortunate tradition of the church burning the mystically inclined at the stake, there is also a set of powerful and diverse mystical practices that lie with in the structural dogma of the church itself. From the innumerable contemplative exercises of monks and nuns, like the Spiritual exercises of St Ignatious, to the devotion to saints, to the worship of the Virgin Mary, to even the weirder shit like the secret practices of the Jesuits and the extra weird shit the Opus Dei does. While not every lay Catholic has the ability to access those practices they are certainly there.

> If you compare the degree to which mysticism has pervaded, and been accessible within Eastern cultures

I think you're vastly overestimating how much access the people of Eastern religions had to the more mystical aspects of their tradition. Even the more basic exercises of Yoga were, for thousands of years, only given to a tiny minority of the practitioners of Vedic faiths. I would argue that the increased access to mysticism that we all enjoy today has much more to do with increased rates of literacy, the information revolution, and the hard work of countless unnamed anthropologists and linguists than any essential structure of Eastern or Western faiths. The one possible counter point I can think of are the many schools of Buddhism, but even those have a diverse group of hidden schools and secret knowledge

>>19121843

Ok, let's look at it from a different angle.

How many attained Mystics have been produced in the West within the confines of those traditions you're discussing?

By contrast, how many have been produced in the East by their respective traditions?

Obviously yes, not everyone had immediate access to complicated mystical training (although I would argue that the average individual was a lot more aware of it, and would have had an easier time seeking it out, since it wasn't actively suppressed). But generally speaking, someone seeking mystical attainment in Asia had a much easier time than someone doing the same in the West.

And again, there's a reason mystically-inclined Europeans lept all over Eastern material as soon as they were exposed to it. Part of it was no doubt the typical infatuation with other cultures which emerges when contact is made, but the larger factor was that through the East they had access to practices which had never even existed in the West and philosophical concepts which had either never been articulated in the West or which had been heavily diluted or corrupted through the need to make them match Christian doctrine.

>>19121969
Not that anon, but
>How many?
is an unreasonable question, because there is not even anywhere close to being an accurate way to ascertain that figure.

>>19121976

Obviously an exact number isn't possible, but think in general terms. Look at the course of history of Eastern and Western spirituality. I think anyone who can do that and not conclude that there is far more genuine mystical influence in the Eastern side of things is almost certainly deluded.

Hell, just look around you at the world today. How many Christian practitioners are reaching higher states of consciousness and showing the signs of having done so?

Just look at the Catholic Church - when the best candidate they can produce for canonization in the last century is Mother Theresa, you know they're in trouble. At least the Eastern Orthodox Church has Saint Paisios, who by all accounts was a man of genuine attainment.

But compared to the number of attained mystics either within Asia, or using techniques from Asian traditions, there's no competition.

Hey guys is there anything to the "blocked chakras" thing, such as historical precedence for the concept and its remedies, or is it mostly a New Age meme? I don't recall coming across it in the Upanishads/Vedas anywhere but I don't have the best memory (I'm working on that, by the way, and have made some amazing advances. You CAN improve your memories folks!)

>>19121994

You can't "block" a chakra itself, but the Nadi's of the body can absolutely be blocked, and opening and cleansing these energetic pathways is a major part of both Ayurvedic and Chinese medicine.

>>19121990
>Mother Teresa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJG-lgmPvYA
.

I mean, it even depends on what you mean by "higher states of consciousness"

>>19121998
That's kinda the impression I got. My step sister is liscensed in Ayurvedic Medicine, so I was kind of surprised to hear talk of "blocked chakras."

In other words, you either activate a chakra or you don't right? There is no "activating a chakra vs. 'unblocking' a chakra"? The only unblocking done in relation to the system is of the pathways themselves? Sorry for so many questions, sometimes the internet makes things more confusing than they would be in traditional course of study.

>>19122001

Exactly - her canonization was an entirely political move, and there's nothing to suggest that she demonstrated any of the attainments or signs usually attributed to a saint.

Are there any good books on numerology and/or math in Thot's library? The search doesn't work for me from some reason.

>>19122028
My point was more that this woman who believed it was "good" for the poor to suffer, and was the immediate cause of much of the suffering of those under her care, was made a FUCKING SAINT

>>19122030
I got a couple texts on math writ large in the A.'.A.'. philosophy folder.

Search for users is limited to the folder you're in. For me/account owners it's library wide.

>>19122001
MT is shit but do we have to bring in King Euphoric of Fedora Mountain?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9TMwfkDwIY

>>19122030
For Gematria there is probably loads of stuff from the Equinox. Try "777 and Other Qabalistic Writings" if he has that particular edition. there's a good essay called "Gematria" that you might like.

>>19117488
>Any suggestions?

Accept that women are children, well, most are.

>>19121990
>>19122014
The Catholic Church has taken major steps over the last century especially to move themselves away from anything relating to miracles or mysticism, I presume it's an effort to try and get more "rational" believers or the assumption that most of their western base doesn't really believe and by embracing miracles and what not they'd drive that base away

>>19122040
I always thought Hitchens was the best of the Militant Atheist trio

>>19122014

>In other words, you either activate a chakra or you don't right?

I'm more interested in Daoism than Vedic Yoga, so I don't know a ton about the Chakras, but I've never heard of the concept of a "blocked" chakra while speaking to Vedic practitioners (which I do fairly regularly).

The closest I can imagine is that the Nadi's which connect to the chakra could suffer major blockages, preventing energy from properly flowing out of the chakra into the body.

Iirc a chakra can also be "closed" in the sense that it hasn't been fully activated and as such the kundalini energy can't pass through it (if you're engaging if Kundalini Yoga), but that's just the normal state of affairs for someone who hasn't engaged in Yogic practice, and the chakra is just "dormant," less active than it would be once opened, not "blocked" in a pathological sense.

But like I said, it's not my thing, none of the training I do works with the chakras.

>>19122050
Anon, tell us about your relationship with your mother.

>>19122057
>I always thought Hitchens was the best of the Militant Atheist trio
I'm partial to Krauss. I don't think he understands how his lectures on the origin of the universe parallel Buddhist cosmogony.

I used to like a lot of...oh whatthefuck is his name...HARRIS but he's been on a steady deterioration of coherence for like seven plus years. I think the last time he made a point I share routinely was like in 2011.

>>19122078
I too like Krauss, I kinda was thinking Harris, Dawkins, and Hitchens when I said that. I consider Krauss to be A LOT less militant about it. But I haven't seen much of him lately. I really liked him in "The Unbelievers" but it made Dawkins look like that much more of an arrogant douche. Which I hate to say because I truly value the contributions Dawkins has made to the field.

>>19122045
>>19122040
Thanks lads! I will meditate on your behalf this evening.

>>19122096
You're welcome. And thanks, but do me a favor, and instead meditate on your behalf. I'm not being an ass, I just think that has the most possible positive outcomes for the greatest number of people. Which is, of course, me speculating out of my ass because I don't even know you.

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Good books on hermetic alchemy for a beginner?

>>19112268
While we're posting such things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1NVyAVrVF0&feature=youtu.be&t=522

I found the Library of Solomon's High Magic book to be the best beginning point to understand the overall theory of magic. From there, the user can get into Gnosticism, Kabbalah, or any other subset of magic, white or black.

>>19122108
Alright I will.
>tfw math major but believe in occultism still

Hey is this: "Pronounce Enochian by inserting the next following Hebrew vowel between consonants"
An accurate description of how to pronounce Enochian? Or is it just speculation? If it IS accurate, how does one determine which Hebrew letter to use for "E" or "O" or "T" and letters like that? Thanks

>>19117488
>believing she actually UNDERSTANDS
Why is it important that she UNDERSTANDS?
Why is it important that any mundanes/muggles/whatever-they're-called-these-days understands the Work?
What does that matter to the Worker?

>>19122128
Occultism and logic/reasoning/critical thinking are *not* mutually exclusive. When done properly, they *should* go hand in hand.

>>19122063
Indeed. Freud is a hack. That's all really. Men are superior to women in most ways, and that's something you either accept or ignore.

>>19122131
Ge,, IDK anon, maybe because I care for and respect her? The fact that I'm going to carry on the Work no matter what does not mean I'm just going to say "fuck you figure it out for yourself." And also because she has huge potential in Ye Aulde Arte.

Jesus H. what is it, neanderthal day on /omg/?

>>19122138
Yep. Everybody sucks except you. You found the Arcanum of Arcana, anon!

>>19122142
Anon, trying to force someone to understand the Work when they them self don't really want to does not lead to good places.

>>19122136
>>19122128
You make our second regular math major.

>>19122130
We don't know.
Given the manuscripts I'd say the Hebrew thing is more likely than not.

>determination
Go with the flow. Read up on Hebrew and Arabic linguistics.

>>19122152
>force someone
Where did I say that is what I was trying to do?
>when they them self don't really want
I'll pretend that's acceptable English. But I also don't see where I said anything remotely close to that, either.

>>19122160
Then why did you ask the question in the first place?

>>19122154
Thanks man. There are SO many grey areas in Enochian, and I am trying to unfuck it to the best of my ability, then compare notes as I go along. If I understand correctly, the GD reconstructions are kinda messy?

Also, I know you have scried the Aethyrs...may I ask how many/which?

>>19121741
I wouldn't say Abrahamic religions. Because from what I have been reading, even they had their own form of meditation that was pushed underground/ lost to time it seems.

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>>19122154
>You make our second regular math major.
That's great. Shattering the prenotion that we are just bunch of succubussummoning faggots.

Also Jack Parsons letters

>I have suffered some vicious astral attacks lately and my skryings indicate
that they relate to a fruition of one aspect of the Babalon working, and this
because I have willfully and knowingly accepted the counter charge. It is now
four years since I saw the words of destiny in blood and fire, and transcribed
to my own disaster. I should have died that time, what lived has had one
purpose, to teach and to transmit.
Crowley is dead, Max Schneider dead of a stroke, Roy Leffingwell paralyzed
with a stroke, Jones insane - you see - this is a strong magic - and Germer
and Smith both old and in bad health. I do not know who else stirs in Her
womb, but you are the only hope I know. If you only had with you an image of
Kali - or could spend some time with Ixcunia[?] in Mexico City - to comprehend
the intolerable self - the vile, frightful aspects of the mother that yet
lifts up the upholding hand in the immemorial gesture of - peace, child, all
is well.

Holy shit. Yeah Im not getting into goetia quite soon. Maybe someday.

>>19122123
>While we're posting such things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I54DqbUoUAY

>>19122164
I seem to remember it having a lot to do with getting my actual questions answered, and a whole lot less to do with getting some random anon's opinions on what they think I should be doing? I'm pretty sure it's that.
You're welcome to go read my question again if you would like to take another stab at addressing something I actually asked, instead of how you liberally interpreted, though

>>19122192
Anon, you don't have to listen to my opinion, but you're on a direct collision course to a fiery end to this relationship if you continue to think that because YOU love the Art, everyone around you should also love the art.
I'm not the one you're frustrated with, she is.

>>19122167
>the GD reconstructions are kinda messy?
Kinda is an understatement.
Ignore the expanded cell attributions. They're all guesswork and not core to the manuscripts.
You should read through my Sloane and Enochian files. I've got literally everything that it's possible to have in terms of manuscript scans.

As a kid? I think we got down to between like 20-15. Maybe 18?

As an adult I think I'm hovering in the mid/low twenties. I was given some instructions to fill before I continued.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My8T8vTYaZ8

>>19122196
Lol. Please tell me where you are getting any of this from I never said:
>I was trying to force anyone to do anything
>That she *does* or *does not* want
>That I am frustrated with her
>that I am trying to make her love the Art
Please, PLEASE tell me where you are getting this from?
My question was this:
How can I explain to my girlfriend the importance of the undertaking? She's fairly accepting of it all, I just have a hard time believing she actually UNDERSTANDS. I'm beginning to wonder if maybe she cannot grasp it unless she undertakes the Work herself.

Nowhere does it say even remotely any of the things you seem to be taking away from it.

>>19122206
Oh well, I tried.
Good luck friend.

>>19122204
Thanks. I have checked them out a bit, some of it, either because of handwriting or copy quality, is nearly illegible to me. Maybe I just need to familiarize myself with Dee's handwriting a bit more?

>>19122214
If that's you trying to answer a question, I can't imagine trying to work a ritual with you. Christ on a fucking cracker.

>>19122217
>Maybe I just need to familiarize myself with Dee's handwriting a bit more?
It really really does not help that he had a bad habit of mixing together English, Latin, and broke as fuck Greek in his handwritten shit.

Dirge pointed me to a passage where he was writing Latin words but in the Greek script with their letters and spellings.

>>19122229
Do we know why in the holiest house of hell he did such a thing? I find it amusing from a personal standpoint, but incredibly frustrating from an academic standpoint. Hell, that sure does explain a lot.

>>19122238
If you were as smart as Dr. Dee I'd imagine you'd get bored in the middle of coded Angel revelations and play with linguistics too.

How do I make an insect my familar?

Kill a bee in the circle?

>>19121990
Good lord this post is dumb.

>I think anyone who can do that and not conclude that there is far more genuine mystical influence in the Eastern side of things is almost certainly deluded.

So assuming attainment on a per capita basis actually matters, which is highly arguable, we have to come to a common definition of attainment that works trans culturally, which is a very sticky issue. Would you consider someone like Nietzsche one who gained attainment? What about Ghengis Khan, who by the accounts of his own people was a master of the mystical arts? How would we account for the uncountable number of anonymous people who attained? The pre Colombian natives, the people in secrets societies, the anonymous authors of scripture, the people who were content to be and not necessarily take on students?
You concede that westerners took to the Eastern beliefs initially because of how exotic and interesting they are, but that also happened when the east was exposed to western religion. Apocalyptic Christianity spread like such wildfire in China that it started one of the bloodiest civil wars in human history. Much of s. Korea is still Christian. Sure you could argue that was the result of missionaries but if the people didn't find that system interesting they would not have been receptive to it. In Japan there's a weird sort of culturally reverence and obsession over western occultism. Does that mean western systems are better? No, they're just interesting and different to people in different cultures. We could flat out forget about Christianity in general and have countless interesting mystical systems in the West that we have so much information about that it would take multiple lifetimes to study them. Unless you have an objective system to determine the mystical quality of a belief system (which I would love to see) your qualitative beliefs are going to be based entirely on your perception and experience.

>>19122248
>bored in the middle of coded angel revelations
I don't think any level of intelligence could cause me to do that. But Again, I'm not the Good Doctor.

>>19122258
>want bee familiar
>kill bee familiar
Wouldn't it be more productive to learn their language and befriend them?

>>19122271
I read that sacrificing can make one familar.
I don't want to sacrifice any animals, but insects seem to have no feelings.

>>19122275
So you want a familiar you have 0 empathic connection to?
How is that supposed to work?

>>19122275
>insects seem to have no feelings
Assuming this true, would that not make them unacceptable familiars? One would think you should have kinship or a bond with the creature.
Then again I'm no expert

>>19122285
>>19122282
Hmm good point.
I guess you are right.
Fuck then I have no choice but to live without familars.

>>19122289
Nah, there's some sort of familiar out there for you.
I couldn't say what it is, but it'll find you when the time is right.

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>>19122131
>What does that matter to the Worker?
I think it is quite important.

The Workers "work" tends to manifest various types of influence into their surrounding. This can create a situation, when the inevitable occurs and these influences begin seeping into the people that surround the worker in his/her everyday life.

If you care about these people, you would do well to take precautions in order to prevent potential mishaps. Explaining what you do to your s.o. is a good start.

Remember, you are ultimately responsible for everything that comes about as a result of your workings. Think very hard about the long term consequences and overreaching effects caused by your work.

In the end everything matters. Literally everything...

>>19122136
>Occultism and logic/reasoning/critical thinking are *not* mutually exclusive.
This cannot be stated enough!

>When done properly, they *should* go hand in hand.
They pair wonderfully, imo.

Does anyone know what visualizing the "squaring the circle" symbol as adviced in psychonaut guide really do?

Does it really work on your imagination skills?

>>19122308
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."
-old proverb

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>>19122229
Just a loose theory but.

What if John Dee's work on Enochian magic, is something that amounts to a "simon:necronomicon", if you catch my meaning.

An old suspicion I like to kick around, from time to time.

>>19122317
"You can post stale proverbs, but it doesn't make up for your complete lack of ability to stay on topic when answering a question"
-me, just now

>>19122355
Da fuk do you mean by that

>>19122310
Any kind of visualizing, hypothetically, should be helping to improve your imagination skills.

>>19122357
You can't make her understand, anon. That's a fool's errand. Either she will because she wants to, or she won't because she doesn't want to. There's nothing you can do about that either way.
There, is that simple enough for you?

>>19121763
>ósa
Where is that word from?

>>19122367
Lol.

>>19122310
Is that the one where he was like

>if you practice alchemy you'll need to know about this symbol wink wink nudge nudge

Shit was kind of dumb

>>19122379
Why was it dumb? Too obvious?

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>>19122379
Yeah something in the lines of that.

Do people really visualize geometric symbols in some occult circles or am I just being fooled?

>>19122367
>You Can't make her understand anon!1!
Well I'm glad I got the most autistic sufferer of ADHD in the entire thread to tirelessly attempt to answer their personal conception of what I was asking.

>>19122394
I believe I've proved my point.
Good day to you sir.

>>19122391
Of course they do. That's what a large portion of the Pentagram and Hexagram rites consist of. There are also loads of meditations on various geometric shapes, and even a meditation on a point as defined in mathematics.

>>19122400
Lol.

>>19122391
Visualization practice is an important part of any magician's training.
If you can't clearly and crisply visualize simple geometric shapes, how do you expect to be able to anything more complex or useful?

>>19122419
>>19122391
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_of_memory

>>19122424
Holy fuck that is some interesting stuff. Cheers.
Fucking hell why are these things not taught in schools.

>>19122436
I have no clue but I've shattered so many curves using AoM it's really not funny.

>>19122424
Also regarding to this image
>>19122391

Is there any science behind third eye meditation?

>>19122391
Try picturing the square as yellow, and the triangle as red, if you want to experiment a bit more with that one.

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>>19122436
>why are these things not taught in schools
You'd best start believing in schools, you're in one.
Sorry, couldn't resist, but I agree. That should be some standard shit in middle/high schools.

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>>19122492
>you're in one.
You might be right.

>>19122452
What's the desired result?

>>19122536
Just to improve your concentration even more, but those are basically the outlines of the Prithivi and Tejas Tatwas. And the Blue circle would correspond to the Vayu Tatwa.

Is western shamanism a crock of shit?

What new age practises in general should be avoided?

>>19122556
Will doing this lets say 2-3h daily have any permanent impact on my closed eyed or open eyed vision? Such as flashbacks or anything?

>>19122569
I would just incorporate it into whatever the book says to do normally. I really haven't fucked with psychonaut but I have heard it can be a great jumping-off point. But anyway, the more complex your visualizations (i.e. more shapes, colors, sounds, odors, tastes, textures), the more it will help you make progress in your ability to visualize. I think what they are working toward is a form of Dharana.

>>19122583
I see. Doing 1-2h meditation itself has improved my ability to remember visual cues vastly.

Also now I can enter hypnacogic state almost every night at will. When I close my eyes I still have a clear vision, as if my eyes were open, of the things I am at that moment starting to dream of.
It's amazing to explore how deep the rabbit hole of hacking your mind goes.

To those who might be interested:

The Well of Galabes and The Archdruid Report blogs by John Michael Greer are going permanently offline as of June 21st, 2017.

Here are archives that I made from them.

Files are inside a .7z container to reduce space. 7-Zip or WinRAR can be used to extract the pages from them.

The mobile page versions were saved to allow each post with all comments to be stored on a single file. Nested replies will appear properly. And the mobile version is more printer friendly.

The .mht format was used to store each post on its own single file. Internet Explorer on Windows will open these files without need to install other software. Users of other browsers should know their way to do this.

For reference, the pages were saved with the Pale Moon Browser with the MozArchiver add-on.

Remember, these links are temporary. They can disappear any time. You must save them as soon as possible.

The Archdruid Report (60MB):
https://my.mixtape.moe/uoxpxj.7z

The Well of Galabes (4MB):
https://my.mixtape.moe/yshnmd.7z

does anyone have experiences while summoning entities and what was the result after the entity helped you ? i kinda want to get into this but i need to know how things could play out.

>>19122620
I typed something out up higher in the thread. it doesn't go into extreme detail but should give you a rough idea.

>>19122616
Any interesting stuff in it though?

>>19122632
>19121731
And just in case you happen to be as lazy as most of the people who come here with that question (I'm not saying you are, but I am assuming you are ;-) )
it's here:
>>19121731

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can somebody with a fair bit of kabbalistic knowledge like Ape expound on this DCS pic? I usually get where he's coming from but this is apparently related to some oral tradition re: Keter that I just don't grok

>>19121540
>>19121493
That's just part of the story, I just don't want to make spoilers.

>>19122728
i think that pic just gave me psychosis

thanks mate

>>19122694
For /omg/, yes, on the Well of Galabes, less on the Archdruid Report.

I consider the Well of Galabes to be an excellent introduction to magic. You could do way worse than reading all the 36 posts on the archive. There are good gems to be found on the comments.

The Archdruid Report is mostly about, uh, you probably will not like it. I could say it is about the decline of industrial civilization due to Earth being finite. Several posts deal with aspects of magic, so I included the link here as well.

>>19122740
np, kabbalah does that to everyone eventually
>>19122728
I'm especially confused by the term "avira" which as far as I can tell is the same Aveira ( ayin-bet-resh) which means "crossing over" and is a feminine noun relating to the act of sin or transgression as in "mitzvah goreret mitzvah, averah goreret averah" which means "one good deed will bring another good deed, one transgression will bring another transgression"

I dont really get what "crossing over" occurs at Keter or what is moving to what, as far as I "knew" there is no "movement" at all above the Abyss

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>>19122360
>Da fuk do you mean by that
I did not mean to imply anything negative and perhaps comparing it to that work was stretching things a bit much. (ie simon:n using literal fiction to fill in the gaps with spoopy riddles)

I just meant that as a reconstructive work, how much of it is creative vs. interpretive. Neither of which of invalidate the work in any way.

>>19122774
Yeah no kidding, I got a panic attack for some reason and a headache. What a great start.

>>19122747
Interesting. I'll check both of them out, thank you.

>>19122733
Still, it sounds like they are completely misusing/abusing the Abramelin ritual. I know it's just hollyweird, but holy asscrack