Hare Krsna General

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Bg 10.9 — The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are fully devoted to My service, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss from always enlightening one another and conversing about Me.

Work upset me a lot today. I can't seem to get any sort of reciprocation when it comes to communication, standards, or just social dynamics. What stuck with me is that I am looking at this situation in terms of "I do ____ for them, so why won't they do the same for me?" or "They want ____ from me, so why can't I expect the same from them?"

It amazes me as I meditate on this that Krishna requires no reciprocation for what He gives. The sun shines on saints and sinners alike, and the rain falls on both desert and the ocean. By this I mean offering the living soul a chance to rebel and make a mess of things trying to take God's place.

Do you have no beef with Krishna, and will make some tributes to Him in thanks, but you just want to live your own life? Cool, Krishna will give you complete material freedom to do that.

Do you have no clue who Krishna is, and just see a bunch of stuff existing for you to exploit? Whatevs, Krishna will give you complete material freedom to do that.

Do you hate the idea of God, and actively try to kill Him or take His energy away for your own use? Well screw you - your punishment is...complete material freedom to do that.

In fact the only time Krishna does anything besides give a soul complete material freedom to do what they want, is if the soul is declaring "what I want is to please you, Krishna." Of course, at that point the soul still has complete freedom, but the material becomes spiritual. Krishna does not take anything away with this transformation. Rather, He is adding His presence.

>>19105015
Krishna is so merciful that even those who hate him achieve liberation. In one sense however we are always controlled, whether by mahamaya or yogamaya.

>>19105015
Which theory do you subscribe to regarding the fall of the jiva?

>>19104897
why do hare krishnas insist that shiva is a demi god? why is iskcon infamous for being a cult? why do people follow hare krishna at all when it involves spendingit's of money to become "enlightened".

Let's have a comfy discussion on the benefits of celibacy

>>19105441
Gaudiya Vaishnavism is bigger than ISKCON. The relationship of Krsna and Shiva was explained here

>>19104828

>Śambhu, who is Shiva, is neither jiva like Brahma and we are, nor is Lord Shiva Paramatma. He is His own unique tattva.

>>19105523

SB 2.6.20, Purport:

In order to award the highest benefit of human life, the varṇāśrama system trains the follower to adopt the vow of celibacy beginning from the order of brahmacārī. The brahmacārī life is for students who are educated to follow strictly the vow of celibacy. Youngsters who have had no taste of sex life can easily follow the vow of celibacy, and once fixed in the principle of such a life, one can very easily continue to the highest perfectional stage, attaining the kingdom of the three-fourths energy of the Lord. It is already explained that in the cosmos of three-fourths energy of the Lord there is neither death nor fear, and one is full of the blissful life of happiness and knowledge. A householder attached to family life can easily give up such a life of sex indulgence if he has been trained in the principles of the life of a brahmacārī. A householder is recommended to quit home at the end of fifty years (pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet) and live a life in the forest; then, being fully detached from family affection, he may accept the order of renunciation as a sannyāsī fully engaged in the service of the Lord.

Krishna we need your space craft and free energy now. The world needs you come back to us please.

>>19105577
vaishnvism was introducedoing by the aryans as a way of subjugation the dravidian and suppressing their shaivite folk religion

>>19105667
*introduced

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>>19105114
>In one sense however we are always controlled, whether by mahamaya or yogamaya.
Yes. Spiritual freedom is serving Krishna by choice, instead of material freedom where we are compelled to serve our mental fears and our bodily needs.

>>19105130
I have moved back to simply not knowing. I used to lean toward originating in the spiritual realm, with our time here a brief "what if?" sojourn, and the potential to return to material there but never again exercised. However I have talked with those on here who pointed me towards Gaudiya writings that indicate the jiva's "awakening" of individual awareness originating in the brahmajyotish, and from there we all make the original choice. Only after a brief stint in the material do those who choose independence gain entry into the spiritual realm.

>>19105441
>why is iskcon infamous for being a cult?
Thank you. "Hare Krishna" is shorthand for a mantra from the Upanishads, revived as a central mantra for bhakti-yoga 500 years ago by Lord Chaitanya. "Hare Krishna" is not a cult. ISKCON's a Gaudiya Vaishnava group that IS infamous for being a cult. It's more exclusionary and fanatical than it wants to be or presents itself to be. It has made drastic moves to get away from cultish behavior (but still has a long way to go), and has been very open with its problems such as a network of covering up sexual abuse including pedophilia. It had a splinter group get into drug and gun smuggling, murder, and conspiracy to commit murder. There is already a faction "within" ISKCON called ritviks. Ritviks believe Prabhuada to be the only person eligible to initiate as a guru - even after his departure from this life. In other words, from now on unless someone initiates you "in the name of Prabhupada," you are not "properly initiated." Ritvik society were the main spreaders of the idea that Prabhupada's disciples were infiltrated by the FBI and poisoned Srila Prabhupada.

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Why do you allow ISKOM to be ran by a murderous jewish pedophile?

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>>19106999
>yay, checked

>>19105441
>why do people follow hare krishna at all when it involves spendingit's of money to become "enlightened".
No idea what you mean by this. You don't need any money to be a devotee of Krishna.

>>19105667
If you wish to take an anthropological viewpoint, then both Shiva and Vishnu are imposed creations upon the pre-Vedic traditions and local gods; both are caricatures formed from the absorption of smaller groups' cultures into the Vedic societies (whether you accept these Vedic societies were from an Aryan invasion or not).

>>19107012
1) It isn't.
2) Me? What would you have me do?
3) There are so many corrupt societies and traditions. There is no "fixing" the material energy. EVERYWHERE in this realm is misery, anxiety, suffering, and death. Stop trying to adjust the temporary and imperfect, and work on purifying yourself.

You cannot save a drowning person if you are also drowning.

>>19107012
Same poster as this. Really not trying to be a dick by bringing this up again, I just can't get over why you let this creature live. I have respect for Prabhupada and some for the teachings of hare krishnas in general. His teachings about the Kalki have been very helpful in my own outreach to build bridges between peoples with common roots.

>>19107035
>You cannot save a drowning person if you are drowning.
My corpse may float, and on if, several could be saved.
>there is no fixing
I find myself through my deeds, and my nature directs me towards these deeds. When I see something that I consider unjust, it is in my nature to act upon it. I will not go against my nature, for to do so is harmful to myself and leads to misery, even if it seems easier to take a path of inaction vs a harder road.
>me? What would you have me do?
Use the knowledge and wisdom you have acquired in your life to speak out against evil men whenever you see them, so that others may not be swayed by the poison of their words, and when opportunity is presented, to act.

>>19107055
Why did you ignore point number one?
>My corpse may float, and on if, several could be saved.
What does this mean, in the context of my analogy? You are under the illusion of maya. Instead of trying to remove that illusion, you are trying to adjust the illusion. Stop.

>Bg 3.28 — One who is in knowledge of the Absolute Truth, O mighty-armed, does not engage himself in the senses and sense gratification, knowing well the differences between work in devotion and work for fruitive results.
>Bg 3.29 — Bewildered by the modes of material nature, the ignorant fully engage themselves in material activities and become attached. But the wise should not unsettle them, although these duties are inferior due to the performers’ lack of knowledge.
>I find myself through my deeds, and my nature directs me towards these deeds.
It is not your nature. They are not your deeds. You are under illusion, falsely identifying with what is not.
> Bg 3.27 — The spirit soul bewildered by the influence of false ego thinks himself the doer of activities that are in actuality carried out by the three modes of material nature.
If you wish to help people, don't tell them to adjust their material condition, tell them to get out of the material condition.

>Use the knowledge and wisdom you have acquired in your life
What I have learned and realized tells me to say your crusade is misdirected.
>evil men
What evil men? Who am I to declare that? Let me try to think of Krishna. Just once, let me try to say his name and really listen. I can't even do that and you want me to say if someone is EVIL?

> the poison of their words
Quote the words from Radhanath Swami that you feel are poison.

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>>19107083
So you're telling me that you are a follower of Radanath, the murderous jewish pedophile in this image?
>not your nature
Who are you to state what is or is not my nature, when you refuse to even aknowledge your own?
>stop
You give commands, yet claim to not judge good from evil? What is evil if not the enforcement of your will upon another without their consent or provocation?
>you are under illusion for disagreeing with me
Do you have anything at all to back up your claims?
>do not adjust the material condition
You are a coward and a fool if you have blinded yourself to nature. The material condition is an expression of the mental and the spiritual. One who dwells in filth and degeneracy does so because in their soul and mind, there too is filth and degeneracy. You manifest your surroundings. When good diligent men see there abode to be full of filth, they clean it.
>your crusade is misdirected
>who am I to speak out against evil?
Do you not hear the hypocrisy of your own words?

>back in march, chant hare krishna / rama for the first time
>nothing but horrible things have been happening since then
>mom ended up in the hospital with septic shock and nearly died

Fug that. How do I undo the hare krishna curse?

>>19107035
> no money to be part of iskcon
but I guess the free blue pill takes away from the sting of leaving your family and friends and leaving the material world for greener pastures.

> shiva and vishnu were imposed creations upon the pre vedic traditions

lol even though anthropologically shiva is perhaps the oldest god known to man.

>>19107139
fucking this all the time

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>>19107139
Look forward to the Kalki, not backwards to Krishna! The Kali Yuga is ending, now is a time of change and transition, and within the next seventy years we will see change that normally would take centuries. Strive ever forwards and seek truth in all things and all deeds, never wavering!

>>19107151
>look forward to the apocalypse
Why? Pretty sure dude's gonna slap my shit. I'm not a very good person.

>>19107151
When it says he's going to destroy people, is he going to actually destroy their souls?

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>>19107179
Rofl, hard to argue with that one, but you may misjudge yourself considering that you have this level of honesty. Honesty, especially about one's self, is a rare virtue in these days, do not take it for granted! In fact, I would consider it one of the most important traits to have on a path of spiritual development, or even material development for that matter. The fool judges others first, the wise man first judges himself, for only with an understanding of your self can you be confident in your judgements of others.

>>19107192
That's a tough one, especially considering my level of sleep deprivation and that I'm working off of translations from Sri Kalki Purana, but maybe?

Here, have my input on the soul from my experiences, studies, and initiations. The soul has threeish parts. There is the you, that you are now, that is, your current incarnation. Then there are all your previous (and future?) incarnations as another part(s), and then there is your Higher Seld/Holy Guardian Angel/OVERSOUL (I like that term) which is that greater consciousness that exists outside of this physical body. Imagine a roleplayer playing d&d, that oversoul is the player, you are the character being played right now, and the other incarnations are all of that player's earlier characters. Those characters will always exist in the player's mind and their experiences make him play better, and influence his actions and thoughts when he plays to some degree, and as a result influence you... even as you are your own being and may or may not have memory or awareness of that.
What happens when we die though? The spirit can be split into many parts, absorbed or dispersed, but not truly destroyed any more than the matter/energy of this existence can, as the spirit and material are a part of the same and follow the same rules, and any time it may seem otherwise, that means we are lacking in understanding and need to investigate more until it makes sense. So, no, but yes? Anyhow, ask more and I will try to answer better in the morning as it is 3am and my wife is snuggling too close for me to type easily. Goodnight Anons.

>>19107115
>you are a follower of Radanath?
Where did I say that? I am a servant of the servant of the gopis; a delusioned soul foolishly trying to remember. Reminder:
>Quote the words from Radhanath Swami that you feel are poison.

>Who are you to state what is or is not my nature
Not I, Krishna.
> Bg 2.11 — [Krishna] said: While speaking learned words, you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor for the dead.
>You give commands
I plead that you give yourself to Krishna. It is the only way I know how please Him.
>What is evil if not the enforcement of your will upon another without their consent or provocation?
I believe evil to be a human value placed upon material events. There is Krishna, and there is the illusion that there is something other than Krishna.
> SB 2.9.34 — O Brahmā, whatever appears to be of any value, if it is without relation to Me, has no reality. Know it as My illusory energy, that reflection which appears to be in darkness.

>Do you have anything at all to back up your claims?
Besides the scriptural quotes? What would convince you?

>You are a coward and a fool if you have blinded yourself to nature.
Perhaps. I have many faults. But I know that simply by taking shelter of Krishna I can very easily pass beyond material obstacles.

>The material condition is an expression of the mental and the spiritual.
>Bg 2.62 — While contemplating the objects of the senses, a person develops attachment for them, and from such attachment lust develops, and from lust anger arises.
>Bg 2.63 — From anger, complete delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost one falls down again into the material pool.
>Bg 2.64 — But a person free from all attachment and aversion and able to control his senses through regulative principles of freedom can obtain the complete mercy of the Lord.

>>19107115
>One who dwells in filth and degeneracy does so because in their soul and mind, there too is filth and degeneracy.
The sun cannot be contaminated, but rather will purify the filth around them simply by their presence and example. When Narada Muni visits demons, he does not attack them, he induces them toward Krishna Consciousness.

>When good diligent men see there abode to be full of filth, they clean it.
I do not agree that you are seeing filth. Or rather, I do not the think the filth you see is external. Your surroundings are manifested from yourself. You cannot clean what is manifested from the internal without first cleaning the internal.

>Do you not hear the hypocrisy of your own words?
No. Please explain how I have been hypocritical.

>>19107139
You cannot. You have asked Krishna to help you remove the illusion of Maya. Often Krishna will do just this by taking away everything material you hold dear. Be vigilant, be stoic in the understanding that Krishna's mercy can hurt in the beginning, and be looking for opportunities to engage in Krishna's service.

>>19107145
>the sting of leaving your family and friends
Straw in the ocean. You will be ripped from your friends and family by time or by death. You cannot change this separation. It is inevitable.

Not only that, these "friends and family" are delusions of the false ego. They are related by this material body that is not you. You again cry for what is not worthy of grief.

>>19107192
My understanding is those delusioned souls that are personally killed by God are absorbed into His form, effectively attaining the "lowest" form of mukti/transcendence and re-merging with the Brahman effulgence.

>>19107320
>effectively attaining the "lowest" form of mukti/transcendence and re-merging with the Brahman effulgence.

So because I fugged up in this one life, I'll never be able to reincarnate again? That's really disappointing. I don't want to disappear forever just because I'm lazy and masturbate too much and eat burgers.

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>>19107320
cont.

Evidence on the merging hypothesis:
> SB 10.12.31 — Then, because Kṛṣṇa had increased the size of His body, the demon extended his own body to a very large size. Nonetheless, his breathing stopped, he suffocated, and his eyes rolled here and there and popped out. The demon’s life air, however, could not pass through any outlet, and therefore it finally burst out through a hole in the top of the demon’s head.
>SB 10.12.32 — When all the demon’s life air had passed away through that hole in the top of his head, Kṛṣṇa glanced over the dead calves and cowherd boys and brought them back to life. Then Mukunda, who can give one liberation, came out from the demon’s mouth with His friends and the calves.
>SB 10.12.33 — From the body of the gigantic python, a glaring effulgence came out, illuminating all directions, and stayed individually in the sky until Kṛṣṇa came out from the corpse’s mouth. Then, as all the demigods looked on, this effulgence entered into Kṛṣṇa’s body.

>Imagine a roleplayer playing d&d
I always use an MMO, as then you get more of a feel of the impersonal, all-pervasive nature of Krishna's influence (as the game developer and server owner) on the material realm.

Also, I feel it is important to note such verses as
> Bg 13.30 — One who can see that all activities are performed by the body, which is created of material nature, and sees that the self does nothing, actually sees.
Because the idea of a player and player-character gives the impression that the jiva has a lot more agency and control over the material energy than we do.

>>19107327
>So because I fugged up in this one life, I'll never be able to reincarnate again?
I don't think so. My understanding is that the soul will eventually attain the position which is supremely satisfying and ever-increasingly enjoyable to them. Merging with the Brahman effulgence is - in GV eyes - not as bad as suffering in the material energy, but still a good trillion-lifetime detour from your eternal, REAL blissful position of acting in the spiritual realm. And from this merged position, there is still a chance that the soul does not begin spiritual activity, and thus (desiring to act) returns to the material.

I apologize in advance to any Buddhists scrolling through.

>>19107336
>from this merged position, there is still a chance that the soul does not begin spiritual activity, and thus (desiring to act) returns to the material.

In my biased, religiously-motivated opinion, this is what happens when in Buddhism, you hear of Buddhas who attained Nirvana, but were "too compassionate" to let go of Self and instead choose to reincarnate to help others elevate.

Buddhism, is an acceptable, if atheistic, path of Impersonalism. However, having no conception of spiritual activity, or of the personality of the Godhead, the highest a soul can achieve through the process of Buddhism is merging with the Brahman effulgence.

>>19107336
That sounds fun and all, but I don't really see the point in destroying evil just so it can have a good time in not-Heaven. Why not just send them to hell(Naraka)?

>>19107370
>I don't really see the point in destroying evil
Evil is a human value. Krishna kills demons. They are not evil, they are self-absorbed and exploitative. They are also part and parcel of Krishna, and the same as you and I, except for immediate situation.

As for the point of killing demons:
1) He wants to
2) He engineers momentous events to provide quintessential examples of Vedic teachings
3) Normally he doesn't get involved, but if a demon is so powerful that devotees ask for his protection, He will intercede out of love for His devotees
4) Krishna reciprocates with the focus of our awareness. If we ignore Him, he ignores us. But if we absorb our thoughts in Him - even if those thoughts are in hatred - then He will absorb Himself in us.
> Bg 4.11 — As all surrender unto Me, I reward them accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pṛthā.
> Bg 8.5 — And whoever, at the end of his life, quits his body remembering Me alone at once attains My nature. Of this there is no doubt.

Note in that last quote it makes no mention of HOW it comes to be that you are always thinking of Him.

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>>19107370
>Why not just send them to hell(Naraka)?
Hell is for the less powerful souls of a demonic bent. Though not technically eternal, a soul can be trapped by their own pride and desire in a "never-ending" spiral through Hell.

> Bg 16.6 — O son of Pṛthā, in this world there are two kinds of created beings. One is called divine and the other demoniac. I have already explained to you at length the divine qualities. Now hear from Me of the demoniac.
Note: divine and demoniac are QUALITIES, not species or types of beings. Humans can be demons (or more linguistically accurate - demonic), as can demigods.
Bg 16.7 — Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them.
Bg 16.8 — They say that this world is unreal, with no foundation, no God in control. They say it is produced of sex desire and has no cause other than lust.
Bg 16.9 — Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world.
Bg 16.10 — Taking shelter of insatiable lust and absorbed in the conceit of pride and false prestige, the demoniac, thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent.
Bg 16.11-12 — They believe that to gratify the senses is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus until the end of life their anxiety is immeasurable. Bound by a network of hundreds of thousands of desires and absorbed in lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification.

>>19107411
(oof, forgot to edit in the greentext)
>Bg 16.13-15 — The demoniac person thinks: “So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him, and my other enemies will also be killed. I am the lord of everything. I am the enjoyer. I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice.” In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance.
>Bg 16.16 — Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of illusions, they become too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and fall down into hell.
>Bg 16.17 — Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes proudly perform sacrifices in name only, without following any rules or regulations.
>Bg 16.18 — Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demons become envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in their own bodies and in the bodies of others, and blaspheme against the real religion.
>Bg 16.19 — Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, I perpetually cast into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life.
>Bg 16.20 — Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, O son of Kuntī, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence.

And note in apparent contrast the phrase "demonic species." I would say while demon and divine are quality labels, there are some species of life more prone toward divine or demonic qualities.

You can teach a dog to not steal food off your plate, but the natural instinct of a dog is to steal that food.

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>>19107411
oh shit, son.
i'm a demon

>hate socializing
>don't shower much due to severe depression and never leaving my house
>stupid
>constantly thinking about sex
>any time i get interested in religion, i lose interest within a week or so and stop caring

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>>19107422
>oh shit, son.
>i'm a demon
Aren't we all, prabhu? What the hell are we doing here?

>>19107320
family is not part of the false ego. iskCON is

>>19107466
Not according to Gaudiya Vaishnavism and the Bhagavatam. This entire conersation in the 6th Canto touches on this:

>SB 6.16.4 — By the mystic power of Nārada Muni, the living entity reentered his dead body for a short time and spoke in reply to Nārada Muni’s request. He said: According to the results of my fruitive activities, I, the living being, transmigrate from one body to another, sometimes going to the species of the demigods, sometimes to the species of lower animals, sometimes among the vegetables, and sometimes to the human species. Therefore, in which birth were these my mother and father? No one is actually my mother and father. How can I accept these two people as my parents?
> SB 6.16.8 — Even though one living entity becomes connected with another because of a relationship based on bodies that are perishable, the living entity is eternal. Actually it is the body that is born or lost, not the living entity. One should not accept that the living entity takes birth or dies. The living being actually has no relationship with so-called fathers and mothers. As long as he appears as the son of a certain father and mother as a result of his past fruitive activities, he has a connection with the body given by that father and mother. Thus he falsely accepts himself as their son and acts affectionately. After he dies, however, the relationship is finished. Under these circumstances, one should not be falsely involved with jubilation and lamentation.
> SB 6.16.10 — For this living entity, no one is dear, nor is anyone unfavorable. He makes no distinction between that which is his own and that which belongs to anyone else. He is one without a second; in other words, he is not affected by friends and enemies, well-wishers or mischief-mongers. He is only an observer, a witness, of the different qualities of men.

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>>19107466
Dubs confirm. Family is important, your people are important, LOVE is important.
This cult is fuckingn retarded.

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>>19108114
>Family is important
In many ways. Materially, everyone has a duty to their immediate family and to their ancestors. Varnasrama dharma has a lot to say about duty to family. Look at Lord Ramacandra's example, banishing himself at the request of his foolish father, giving up Sita-devi at the paranoid suspicions of the public He served, and so many more examples showing how He took a harder path, a less-wise path, at the behest of family.

But spiritually, these connections are not there. Instead, the spiritual family is connected through Krishna. We are related as I am related to Krishna, and you are related to Krishna. True altruism comes when we see there is no living entity not part of our family.

> Bg 6.9 — A person is considered still further advanced when he regards honest well-wishers, affectionate benefactors, the neutral, mediators, the envious, friends and enemies, the pious and the sinners all with an equal mind.
> Bg 6.29 — A true yogī observes Me in all beings and also sees every being in Me. Indeed, the self-realized person sees Me, the same Supreme Lord, everywhere.
> Bg 6.32 — He is a perfect yogī who, by comparison to his own self, sees the true equality of all beings, in both their happiness and their distress, O Arjuna!

>your people
YOUR people. I feel this is indicative of the exploitative and possessive nature such exclusionary labels. Allowing for distinction, arrogance, and elitism. "These are MY people, not yours. They are MINE."

>LOVE is important
It's the only importance. But for our lover to be eternal in infinite, we must base it on the eternal relationship to the infinite. Love based on temporary conceptions of these limited bodies will itself be limited and temporary.

>>19108189
>for our lover to be eternal in infinite
odd typo

>for our love to eternal and infinite

Prabhupada: Now the priestly order supporting homosex. I was surprised. They are going to pass resolution for getting married between man to man. The human society has come down to such a degraded position. It is astonishing. When I heard from Kirtanananda Maharaja there is a big conference for passing this resolution. In India still, if there somebody hears about homosex (makes sound of breathing out). Homosex is there but nobody will support publicly. (indistinct) People are going down and this is the subject matter for priestly order? It may be subject matter for the legislator, priestly order, they are discussing for one week. Just imagine. Phalena pariciyate, one has to study by the result. Not that superficially you show that “We are very much advanced.” Phalena, what is the result? Phalena pariciyate, your, that is in English word also, end justifies the means. The end is this (indistinct) “We are going to support homosex.” Getting married. There are many cases the priestly order has actually got married. I read it in that paper, Watch, what is called?
Devotees: Watchtower.
Prabhupada: Watchtower. They have complained(?). So we have nothing to (indistinct) them. The world is degrading to the lowest status, even less than animal. The animal also do not support homosex. They have never sex life between male to male. They are less than animal. People are becoming less than animal. This is all due to godlessness.

https://youtu.be/x4osChDnPyQ

>>19108189
>your people
You respond with such hateful words, why? The lies of the kike Radhanath? Here are the words od a master!
>Prabhupada: Sudra is to be controlled only. They are never given to be freedom. Just like in America. The blacks were slaves. They were under control. And since you have given them equal rights they are disturbing, most disturbing, always creating a fearful situation, uncultured and drunkards. What training they have got? They have got equal right? That is best, to keep them under control as slaves but give them sufficient food, sufficient cloth, not more than that. Then they will be satisfied.
People are different, deal with it fool.

>>19107115
Balck And jew...

>>19107151
kali yuga, kid c'mon we are in the dwapara yuga, for the next 200 think about it mate kali yuga for 432000 years, lets be realistic

>>19108424
>You respond with such hateful words, why?
If you saw hatred in my words, I am very sorry for that. None was meant. I merely point out the possessive nature of your own words. The language of the false ego is "I, Me, and Mine."

>The lies of the kike Radhanath?
Please quote the words of Radhanath Swami that you think are lies. Also a reminder, you never answered this:

>>19107083
>Quote the words of Radhanath Swami that you feel are poison.

>>19108465
Stop falling for jewish lies.
>Twelve thousand years of the demigods is the duration of the four
yugas on earth. The duration of Satya-yuga is four thousand celestial
years, Treta-yuga is three thousand celestial years, Dvapara-yuga is two
thousand celestial years, and Kali-yuga is one thousand celestial years. The
transitional periods of the four yugas are four hundred, three hundred,
two hundred, and one hundred celestial years, respectively. In this way,
the total comes to twelve thousand celestial years.

>>19108585
They are ALL lies. I will not spread the poisonous words of the kike who murdered Prabhupada with literal poison.

>>19108271
>Prabhupada: Aryans, they were the civilised persons.
Please note that Prabhupada here is literally defining the term Aryan. In Vedic scripture, the "Aryans" are not a separate race of human, they are the humans that correctly follow varnasrama dharma. Whether this - anthropologically - is explained by different races warring and talking shit about each other is irrelevant to the mythical history Prabhupada is narrating.

Basically, Prabhupada isn't saying "aryans are the hotness." He's saying "people who are the hotness are called Aryan."

Of course, you might consider this in contradiction to where Prabhupada specifically says "You European are also Aryan, Indo-European stock." But again, take this in context of the lineage from Maharaja Pariksit he is talking about.

According to the Mahabharata, there was one world culture, this culture has split and degraded into the multiple cultures we see today. He specifically mentions Greek as part of the Indo-European, Aryan stock. Yet the Greek are ALSO specifically mentioned as degraded humans, worse than the lowest caste.

Basically, what you are considering the Aryan races are simply people that were cut off from the "true" Aryans (i.e. poo-in-the-loos) and have become degraded and uncivilized over time.

>>19108465
nigga wtf u talking about, im using the same system as you are im saying we cant be in the kali yuga for the same reasons you are da fuck nigga im saying 4320000 years is some crazy bullshit

>>19108602
Baseless assertions.
>Please quote the words of Radhanath Swami that you think are lies.
>Quote the words of Radhanath Swami that you feel are poison.

Nothing more needs to be said on this.

Found this conversation.

https://old.prabhupadavani.org/main/Conversations/015.html
>Prabhupada: The name, yavana, is there.
>Pradyumna: ...yad-apasrayasrayah sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah. Translation: "Kirata, Huna, Andhra, Pulinda, Pulkasa, Abhira, Sumbha, Yavana, and the Khasa races, and even others, who are addicted to sinful acts, can be purified by taking shelter of the devotees of the Lord due to His being the Supreme Power. I beg to offer my respectful obeisances unto Him."
>P.pada: What is the purport?
>Prady: "Kirata. A province of old Bharatavarsa mentioned in the Bhisma-parva of the Mahabharata. Generally the Kiratas are known as the aboriginal tribes of India. And in modern days the Santal Parganas in Bihar and Chota Nagpur might comprise the old province named Kirata."
>P.pada: They're black.
>Prady: "Huna. The area of East Germany and part of Russia is known as the province of the Hunas. Accordingly, sometimes a kind of hill tribe is known as the Hunas, the Huns."
>P.pada: Hoons.
(cont.)

>>19108618
You are a deluded fool at best, a willful spreader of lies, a rakasha more likely, if not jewish.

Room Conversation, August 2, 1976, New Mayapur, French farm
Prabhupada: In Bengal the, just like here, so many, black mixed up with white. In Bengal and Madras, so many Dravidian have been mixed up with the Aryan. Therefore in Bengal and Madras you’ll find many black.
Hari-sauri: Dravidian?
Prabhupada: Dravidian culture. Dravida. They are non-Aryans. Just like these Africans, they are not Aryans. Now they are mixing up with Europeans and Americans. In India, it was, one from the higher section, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, they will be fair complexion. Sudras, black. So if a brahmana becomes black, then he’s not accepted as brahmana. Kala bahu (?). And if a sudra becomes fair, then he’s to be know that he’s not pure sudra. Although we do not take very, but, this brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, by birth, but still, we have seen, those who are coming purely from high caste family, their behavior and sudras behavior is different. The family culture. And the spiritual culture lost, still, the family culture keeps them separate.

>>19108643
>Prady: "Andhra. A province in S. India mentioned in the Bhisma-parva of Mahabharata. It is still extant under the same name. Pulinda. It is mentioned in Mahabharata, Adi 174.38, that is the inhabitants of the province of the name, Pulinda. This country was conquered by Bhimasena and Sahadeva. The Greeks are known as Pulindas, and it is mentioned in the Vana-parva of the Mahabharata that the non-Vedic race of this part of the world would rule over the world. This Pulinda province was also one of the provinces of Bharata, and the inhabitants were classified amongst the ksatriya kings. But later on, due to their giving up the brahminical culture, they were mentioned as mlecchas, just as those who are not followers of the Islamic culture are called kafirs, and those who are not followers of the Christian culture are called heathens. Abhira. This name also appears in Mahabharata, both in the Sabha-parva and the Bhisma-parva. It is mentioned that this province was situated on the River Sarasvati in Sind. The modern Sind province formerly extended on the other side of the Arabian Sea. All the inhabitants of that province were known as the Abhiras. They were under the domination of Maharaja Yudhisthira and, according to the statements of Markandeya, the mlecchas of this part of the world would also rule over Bharata. Later on, this proved to be true, as it was proved in the case of the Pulindas. On behalf of the Pulindas, Alexander the Great conquered India, and on behalf of the Abhiras, Muhammad Ghori conquered India. These Abhiras were also formerly ksatriyas within the brahminical culture, but they gave up the connection. But the ksatriyas who were afraid of Parasurama and had hidden themselves in the Caucasian hilly regions later on became known as the Abhiras, and the place they inhabited was known as Abhiradesa. Sumbha, or the..." [break]

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>>19108643
Yep, you're defending the murderous kike Radhanath, you are evil, a baseless liar here to decieve. When the Kalki comes, you will be purged from this world with all like you.

For anyone who wants to know more about the murder of Prabhupada and the corruption of the Hare Krishnas into the devilish cult it has become today, here is a good source. http://www.iskcon-truth.com/poison/prabhupada-poisoned-overview.html
>Srila Prabhupada: "my only request is , that at the last stage don't torture me, and put me to death"

>>19108652
>P.pada: One Yavana fought with him, Kalayavana.
>Professor: Because usually the Yavanas is considered as being Greeks.
>P.pada: Greeks.
>Prof: Yes.
>P.pada: Yes.
>Prof: Not Turks.
>P.pada: Turks and Greeks...

(Silly 90 characters over the limit...)

>>19108650
If you wish to quote mine for racist and sexist comments, I'll gladly agree. Prabhupada said some things that seem very sexist and racist. I don't wish to go back and forth quoting lines all day.

I will note that all of your quotes are conversations, and not once do the books Prabhupada wrote to be seen as authoritative corroborate that apparent conclusion you are coming to.

>>19108673
>you're defending the murderous kike Radhanath
You haven't made anything but baseless accusations. There's nothing to defend and no need to try.

yall niggas need to read other scriptures instead of just the shit krns consciousness perscribs

The truly sad thing to me is that because of envy over a zealous and effective spreader of bhakti-yoga, the hundreds of millions of Vaishnava adherents, the millions of Gaudiya Vaishnavas, the dozens of Gaudiya-Math schools around the world - all this is ignored to spam the thread with murder conspiracies.

Fine, ISKCON is evil, you hate Radhanath for murdering Prabhupada.

At what point will you be satisfied enough to actually talk about the Supreme Person? At what point will you want to serve God? At what point will this help you realize your eternal nature?

>>19108685
Srila Prabhupada was right though. Why do you defame his words when they are unpleasant to your goals, and only elevate those that aupport you? You are a coward and a deciever to do so, and insult this great man with your foolishness! You are a bastard child of Kali!

These fallen souls are very fond of dry arguments, and they use
religion as a means of livelihood, teach Vedic knowledge as a profession,
are fallen from the execution of their vows, and sell wine and other
abominable things, including meat. They are cruel by nature, and very
fond of gratifying their bellies and genitals. For this reason, they lust
after the wives of otners and are always seen to be intoxicated They were
not born from a father and mother who were properly married, ?nd they
are short in stature and always engaged in sinful acts, such as cheating
others

>>19108696
>Radhanath is Evil
>At what point will you be satisfied?
Well actually this is a good start. This rather obnoxious discourse of ours has brought you to the point that you are willing to acknowledge that you do in fact judge and that you can see evil. Once you can see truth from lie, goodness from wickedness, you can begin the path to enlightenment and seek truth and goodness within yourself, and in so doing, begin to manifest such good in the world around you, for the betterment of all people, rather than merely seeking a selfish escape from the world, when the bars of your prison were always of your own construction.

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Hey, guys, where can I get this delicious looking hare cheeseburger?

>>19108697
>Why do you defame his words when they are unpleasant to your goals
I decry those that take Prabhupada's words and fit them to their own agenda.

Srila Prabhupada wanted everyone in the world to realize they are not their body. Prabhupada wanted everyone in the world to chant Hare Krishna. If you use Prabhupada's words to reinforce the false connection to the body - you are stealing and exploiting Prabhupada's words against his own desire.

>These fallen souls are very fond of dry arguments
Do you understand what Prabhupada meant by "dry argument?"
>they use religion as a means of livelihood
You think I live off 4chan posts?
>teach Vedic knowledge as a profession
This is not my profession.
>are fallen from the execution of their vows
I'll agree with this one, though I have never taken any official vows, I am fallen.
>They are cruel by nature
What words of mine have been cruel? I did try to apologize when you said my words were hateful.
>They were not born from a father and mother who were properly married
Veda-wise, correct.
>they are short in stature
I'm over 6'4"
>always engaged in sinful acts, such as cheating others
As for all the sinful acts and selling meat - sure, I am humble enough to accept those faults as in me either wholly or in part.

>>19108715
>This rather obnoxious discourse of ours has brought you to the point that you are willing to acknowledge that you do in fact judge and that you can see evil.
I am OK with you believing that. You STILL have not mentioned Krishna. Why won't you talk about Krishna?

>Bg 10.9 — The thoughts of My pure devotees dwell in Me, their lives are fully devoted to My service, and they derive great satisfaction and bliss from always enlightening one another and conversing about Me.

>>19108731
If you will speak to me about this.
>Once you can see truth from lie, goodness from wickedness, you can begin the path to enlightenment and seek truth and goodness within yourself, and in so doing, begin to manifest such good in the world around you, for the betterment of all people, rather than merely seeking a selfish escape from the world, when the bars of your prison were always of your own construction.
Then I will consider speaking of Krishna. We could try to be more civil, if you become willing to have conversation rather than preach and debate.

>>19108731
rama is best avatar, lets talk about him instead

>>19108754
Why do you say? Rama was definitely cool, though Hitler was the Ultimate Avatar IMO. Of course, the Kalki will be incredible, the avatar we deserve.

>>19108731
Have you read Jaiva Dharma? Extremely enlivening sastra. Not sure if it is studied in ISKCON

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Going to see my beloved gurudeva within the next few days. Will ask him any serious questions you have and post in the next thread

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>>19108749
OK
>Once you can see truth from lie, goodness from wickedness
I do not accept that either of us are on a platform such that we can do this.
>you can begin the path to enlightenment and seek truth and goodness within yourself
The beginning of the path is sraddha, faith. I have already begun. Do you not know the steps of the bhakti-yoga process? It will be difficult to have a conversation if you are lacking.

>begin to manifest such good in the world around you, for the betterment of all people
You mean like expanding the knowledge of the Supreme Personality?
>Bg 18.68 — For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.
>Bg 18.69 — There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he, nor will there ever be one more dear.
>rather than merely seeking a selfish escape from the world
Agreed, bhakti surpasses mukti. Bhakti makes mukti irrelevant.

>Then I will consider speaking of Krishna.
You consider. I will begin.

>We could try to be more civil
>>19108697
>You are a coward and a deciever
>You are a bastard child of Kali!
>>19108673
>you are evil, a baseless liar here to decieve
>you will be purged from this world
>>19108650
>You are a deluded fool at best, a willful spreader of lies, a rakasha more likely, if not jewish.

Will you start the process of civility by apologizing for ANY of this?

>>19108769
rama was a real nigga, top dog, respected the dharma honoroble, had the best crew, and learned from the best sage handles his kids well (kicking the shit out of them accidently), best guy at using bow's him and shiva and best bros 4 lyfe, best mantra, best waifu

>>19108754
I greatly enjoy the esoteric sidenote of Lord Rama's story about Laksman. That Sri Laksman was so upset at how the events turned out, that he vowed to never descend as Lord Rama's YOUNGER brother again. That way He wouldn't be forced to follow His elder brother on the principles of familial duty.

>>19108770
Not nearly enough. Do you know of a good English translation online? It isn't "officially" studied in ISKCON, but I saw a lot of devotees with it on their shelves.

>>19108773
Is it worth accepting the aparadh of tolerating insult to great persons if you know defending them will distract from the discussion on absolute truth and the reception of said talks?

>>19108799
http://www.purebhakti.com/resources/ebooks-a-magazines-mainmenu-63/bhakti-books/english/21-jaiva-dharma.html

Found a pdf copy but it is so massive I would suggest buying the physical book. Was written in mystic trance by Bhaktivinod Thakur and explains the whole Gaudiya vaishnava philosophy in a conversational manner.

Would also suggest you find Narayana Maharaja's gita which is a bit more advanced than that written by Srila Prabhupada.

>>19108775
>I do not accept that either of us are on a platform such that we can do this.
Then that is your failing. A child is incapable of walking at birth, but that does not deter him from crawling until he has gained the strength to stand, and then walk, nor is he deterred no matter how many times he will fall. Do you lack motivation? I do not understand your reasoning here as much as it seems you do not understand mine.
>the first step is sraddha, faith.
How can you judge this path if you do not understand the self?
>difficult conversation
We do not learn from those we agree with, we do not grow stronf by walking downhill. It is the difficult conversations that bring wisdom, as it is the mountain that makes us strong. The further the divide between us, the greater the opportunity for us to learn.
>You mean like expanding the knowledge of the Supreme Personality?Well yes, if that is how your nature will manifest it. What matters to me in this is that your expression is based upon the truth within you, no matter where or how, and if this truth is a manifestation of the godhead, the all, Krishna, or any other title bestowed upon the river of the divine source, I will be happy knowing that it is understood and manifest truthfully, rather than be cast through a veil dimly.
>bhakti makes mukti irrelevant
This is Arrogance. No aspect is irrelevant, all things are related, and all things interconnected. You deny Krishna by refusing to see Kali.
>will you apologize?
Simply? No. I said what I had for a reason. It is impossible to know the depths of one's love and devotion without also finding their ire. Your reactions speak of more than you may show.

>>19107980
why do you keep ladling Hindu scripture at me you brainwashed iskcon loon.

why is krishna the supreme person then?

what scripture apart from the doctored gita says so?

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>>19108779
I want a Bioshock-style game where you play as Rama. You'd have a mace, a chakra, a bow with a variety of arrows both regular and later enchanted. You could have mantra spells and monkey henchmen, and encounters with huge and awesome personalities. Imagine running around on the giant Kumbhakarna a la God of War or Shadow of the Colossus, shooting him with arrows.

>best mantra
More alliterative than our own Hare Krishna mantra. You can get some sick grooves with Raghupati Raghava Raja Ram.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgWXIyuQX24

Back in a bit.

>>19108958
Jaiva Dharma
Srimad Bhagavatam
Chaitanya Charitamrta
Bramha Samhita
Isopanisad

And many, many more

>>19108962
Degenerate. You claim krishna is best, but seek a fantasy of war and slaughter.

>>19108967
so basically no pre vedic scriptures. disappointing.

>>19109088
Heil'd. If you want pre-vedic, read the Havamol.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/poe/poe04.htm

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>>19108833
>http://www.purebhakti.com/resources/ebooks-a-magazines-mainmenu-63/bhakti-books/english/21-jaiva-dharma.html
Thank you for this. I will absorb myself, and have more to talk on next week in appreciation.

Any links to the pastimes of Kesava Goswami Maharaja? I see more and more that Prabhupada was not a lone seed, migrating to distant lands to grow a new tree of bhakti, as some might wish to view him. Rather, he was a powerful tendril of the bhakti vine, reaching out to new soil to invigorate the whole.

>>19108799
>insults to great persons
Are you talking about the murderer who calls himself Radhanath? You know, the jew (((Richard Slavin))) who paid $6000 to a hitman to kill Sulocana das, just so he could have a bit more temporal power and get a bit morw underage ass?

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>>19109295
Speaking of - is there any consensus or gathering of thought in the Gaudiya Vaishnava community that certain disciples of Sri Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Maharaja are standing out in the polish of history as exemplary? Of course I am biased, but I also hear much of only a few of Prabhupada's godbrothers. Is this due to my lack of connection, or due to manifesting tejas and gravitation toward these few?

Krishna enjoys the number four in these things. At least he has four initial expansions, and holds four items as Lord Narayana, and as Lord Rama He appeared with three brothers. Even Lord Chaitanya advented as four - if you take Srivas Pandit as the purified living entity and not a plenary expansion of the Godhead.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srivasa_Thakura
>Srivasa Thakura is understood as tatastha-shakti, a marginal energy of Bhagavan, Krisna in person.
https://www.srigaurangashram.in/Srivasa%20Pandit.htm
>"Intelligent Srivasa had previously been Narada Muni, the best of the sages. Srivasa's younger brother, Sriman Rama Pandit, had previously been Narada's close friend Parvata Muni" (Gaura Ganodesh Dipika 90).

Consequently, Srivasa Pandit also had three brothers.
>"It was in Pandit's house that Sri Chaitanya enacted His pastimes of sankirtana. Those four brothers (Srivasa, Sri Rama, Sripati and Srinidhi) were continuously engaged in singing the names of Sri Krishna.”

Did they return at the end of the millenia?

All this from starting the intro to Jaiva-dharma. Haribol.

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>>19109472
So, now you only respond to those who will blindly follow without question? Taking after Richie there.

>>19109472
Why would a hare krishna reincarnate? Aren't you trying to escape?

>>19109929
We are trying to escape the illusion of material existence, and regain our position as Krishna's eternal loving servant. If service to Krishna includes reincarnating in a material body, that is no issue. For a pure devotee, there is no difference between the material and the spiritual - there is only Krishna.

For those who aren't a pure devotee, they would reincarnate for the same reason anyone else would - lust and attachment to the material.

>>19110461
Thats contradictory.
>we must escape the material
>there is no difference between material and spirit.
So what are you trying to do then?

>>19110631
Different levels of understanding for different levels of realization. Ultimately bhakt can be reduced to having no other desire than the pleasure of Sri Krsna, whether in any location or form of life.

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>>19110638
How completely hedonistic and selfish. They should help their fellows instead.

>>19110672
The only way to really help someone would be to bring them to the platform of Krsna consciousness.

>>19110631
The illusion is there is existence separate from Krishna. While under that illusion, it is useful to talk in terms of material and spiritual energies of Krishna.

On the highest platform, though, there is only Krishna and Krishna's energy. Material energy used in the service of Krishna IS spiritual energy.

>>19110672
I disagree on it being hedonistic and selfish. Hedonism implies the soul serves with the motive of self-pleasure. While the soul in its eternal position is filled with bliss, this is not the motive of serving Krishna. Krishna's pleasure is the motive for serving Krishna. As long as one is trying to exploit such actions for their own self-pleasure, they are not on the platform of bhakti.

It's like the old joke of buying your wife a set of golf clubs.

>>19110702
So you are a cuck? You get pleasure by obedient servitude to krishna, because hou seek this pleasure while shirking your duty to your fellows? What a degenerate religion. Even christians seek to help their fellows whether misguided or genuine.

>>19110689
What if their own will and desire is contrary to your own desire to bring them to krishna? Would that not be an attempt at ideological enslavement?

>>19109472
Would recommend Sri Guru Darshan which describes Narayan Maharaja when under the guidance of Acharya Kesari as a young bramachari.

>>19110956
Explaining color to a blind man won't help them see any better.

Which book talks about how they were pissed that their civilisation and gene pool got rekt by being nice to niggers?

>>19110987
lol, touche!
Humor aside, that is a pretty arrogant way of treating things. If you're a gnostic I likely have more in common with you than this degenerate that is OP. Sophian?

>>19111008
That would be Sri Kalki Purana. Not a bad read. Apparently Kali-Yuga might as well translate to nigger-age.

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>>19111026
Thank you! I've been trying to remember this for ages!

>>19111072
You're welcome. It's completely canon btw.

>>19109151
So basically no reference to lord Shiva. Disappointing.

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>>19110956
>So you are a cuck?
No, for two reasons I can think of. First, I would have to be factually possess something to be cucked of it. Everything is factually possessed by Krishna, including all sense objects, the senses themselves, and the knower of the senses. Trying to enjoy for the self is trying to cuck Krishna.

> Iso mantra 1 — Everything animate or inanimate that is within the universe is controlled and owned by the Lord. One should therefore accept only those things necessary for himself, which are set aside as his quota, and one should not accept other things, knowing well to whom they belong.

Second, as I am part of Krishna, His pleasure is my and all beings' pleasure. The hand is not cucked if I give all the food to the stomach by way of mouth. There is no nourishment from food for the hand except via the stomach. The hand trying to enjoy food directly leads only to suffering.

>>19110963
Each person has their skill in preaching. A person can't be forced to desire to reawaken Krishna Consciousness, tho. Ultimately if a person desires to remain in Maya, Krishna allows it. Any advancement made will remain in reserve until the soul regains the desire to remove the illusion.

> Bg 2.40 — In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.

> Bg 7.14 — This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it.
>Bg 7.15 — Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, who are lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me.
>Bg 7.16 — O best among the Bhāratas, four kinds of pious men begin to render devotional service unto Me – the distressed, the desirer of wealth, the inquisitive, and he who is searching for knowledge of the Absolute.

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>I'm not a cuck because krishna already owns my asshole!
ROFL! You are a cuck! Or lower, not even a slave. You are below the animals, for they have the concept of self even!
Why are you even here? To make yourself feel better than others because your ego is fragile?

>>19111014

It says apparently because everyone was calling me gnostic in a thread awhile back. I don't really know what it is beyond the whole, "spirituality is subjective" thing though. I just sound like one (((apparently))).

It wasn't meant to be funny, or arrogant. If you try to explain how things work too many times you kinda just except that people are going to change at their own pace.

Sorry for the late reply.

Heck, most people still think that good and evil exist beyond culture. In reality good and evil don't exist in any objective way because they are concepts born from the human mind. An action is only good or bad if you think it is.

>>19111481
Gnosticism has nothing to do with spirituality being subjective. It has to do with a false god (god of the material world) and a true god (the god of whatever spirit realm there is).

>>19111481
It's cool. The rosicrucians are cooler than gnostics anyhow.
>>19111488
Heil'd
I define evil as the forcing of your will on another without consent OR provocation.

>>19111451
>ROFL! You are a cuck
If that is your definition, then we are all cucks. Or rather, the choice is to be a cuck, or to be a cuck in denial. Either we recognize the position of the jiva, or we choose to delude ourselves and be under the control of Maya. There is no option for the soul that does not mean complete control. Right now we are under control. Nothing we do or think is of our own volition. But we are so deluded that we boast about how we decide to do exactly what our bodies tell us to do.

>Bg 2.70 — A person who is not disturbed by the incessant flow of desires – that enter like rivers into the ocean, which is ever being filled but is always still – can alone achieve peace, and not the man who strives to satisfy such desires.
>Bg 2.71 — A person who has given up all desires for sense gratification, who lives free from desires, who has given up all sense of proprietorship and is devoid of false ego – he alone can attain real peace.
>Bg 2.72 — That is the way of the spiritual and godly life, after attaining which a man is not bewildered. If one is thus situated even at the hour of death, one can enter into the kingdom of God.
> Bg 13.30 — One who can see that all activities are performed by the body, which is created of material nature, and sees that the self does nothing, actually sees.
> Bg 13.32 — Those with the vision of eternity can see that the imperishable soul is transcendental, eternal, and beyond the modes of nature. Despite contact with the material body, O Arjuna, the soul neither does anything nor is entangled.

>>19111497
>gnosticism is about false god and real god
Well, it's mostly about the first part. Kinda like Buddhism and finding truth, but with a giant FUCK THE DEMIURGE IN THE ASSHOLE WITH A CHAINSAW, WITH DULL STONES FOR TEETH!

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>>19111505
roflmao, such a bitch. If that were true, might as well just be a nihilist. You keep having your pretty fantasy that makes you feel better. I have family and friends in my life to care for, and a cause to support, and people to help grow stronger rather than give in to weakness and nihilism. Maybe one day you will be free from self loathing and grow a pair of balls and face the world like man. Regardless of your choice, I'm staying...
VOLKISH!

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>>19111451
>Why are you even here?
All these flavors, and you choose salty...
Why are you in the Hare Krishna General?

>To make yourself feel better than others because your ego is fragile?
Meh, I'm arrogant enough to think people care about a persistent appraisal of my posts thus the namefagging. But I also intellectually am humble enough to realize I'm a 3rd rate netizen with an internet addiction wasting his time on 4chan. So perhaps I can use both of these faults to get Krishna wedged just a little bit more into my consciousness. Coming on here and getting trolled and answering questions allows me to put my mind on Krishna. I get to think hard on answers, and search through sastra for deeper understanding and nuance. I am here because I truly am trying to serve Krishna in some small way while I waste my time wallowing in Maya. I'm sorry if that offends you. You can always close the thread.

But I know you'd prefer to try and make fun of me. Which is fine, it gives me a chance and reason to talk about Krishna and put up more pictures of Him.

>>19111488
>In reality good and evil don't exist in any objective way because they are concepts born from the human mind.
Agreed. Good and evil are human values, they amount to "we as group like or don't like this thing to a large degree."

>>19111497
My understanding is that Gnosticism deals with the idea that humans can gain a full understanding of absolute truth by dint of their own power. This is not so?

>>19111501
>I define evil as the forcing of your will on another without consent OR provocation.
This is still just declare an action to be something you don't like, and generalizing that dislike as evil. Would you force this conception - this aspect of your will - on others if they thought consent was unnecessary?

To put it in a concrete example - would you force a family that didn't believe in modern medicine to vaccinate their children? Is that not forcing your will on others?

>>19111505
I can admit that free will is watered down by genetics and uncontrollable aspects of a person's environment, but it's still there. If you choose not to expand that limited free will and awareness in this life time, then your ego will just die and be reborn until you do. Not because it's wrong to live like that, but because ego retention is a natural consequence to enlightenment.

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>>19111518
>roflmao, such a bitch.
>still missing the point
We are all bitches; whose bitch are you? I should be lucky enough to declare that I am Krishna's bitch.

>I know no one but Krishna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord unconditionally.

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>>19111544
Hehehehe, you are on the right path. Seek individuation! Join the three parts of the soul, grow stronger and immortalize the ego with your Nos and logos! SIEG HIEL!
Do you share the dream of the green ray, the black sun? Do you feel the longing, the NOStalgia!? Does it call to you to become great!?

>>19111544
>but it's still there.
My understanding so far is that we have an infinitesimal will, as we are an infinitesimal part of the Infinite. Our single choice is whether we accept the control of Krishna, or if we accept the control of Maya.

As long as we are in material existence, we are under the control of so many things. Entropy, gravity, society, biology, psychology - and all of that's before we get into our own agendas and desires. So many masters. There are studies that indicate that even when we decide to move our body, that "decision" is actually a post-hoc manifestation of our seemingly-deterministic bodies:
https://www.wired.com/2008/04/mind-decision/

Part of self-realization is the understanding that we are never in control. That tatastha-sakti, marginal energy, the living entity, souls, us - we are not the Enjoyer. We are the Enjoyed.

>>19111544
>Not because it's wrong to live like that
Agreed again. This is part of the reason I left ISKCON. I am not a good preacher because I cannot condemn living entities who are exercising the free choice Krishna offers to them. We have eternity to return to Godhead; I can't in good conscience tell people to hurry up. This is my failure.

>>19111575

There is one master and that master is change. The only way to stop change is to kill time. Anyone can guide change, but no one can control it. Destiny is change guided.

This is what I meant by explaining color to the blind. Free will is infinitesimally small at birth. You have no control what-so-ever over anything. As we age our awareness will expand to a amount determined by our genetics and further still based on our environment. At some point we gain enough awareness and knowledge to make choices that have real consequences.

One day, in a distant time we gain full choice. There are several ways that this can happen both artificial (Control over genetics and environment) and natural (Awareness cultivated over many lives).

You're on a ledge that you've yet to leap from. Only you can make the jump though.

>>19111615
>There is one master and that master is change. The only way to stop change is to kill time.
Classic.

>Bg 11.32 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds, and I have come here to destroy all people. With the exception of you [the Pāṇḍavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.
>Bg 11.33 — Therefore get up. Prepare to fight and win glory. Conquer your enemies and enjoy a flourishing kingdom. They are already put to death by My arrangement, and you, O Savyasācī, can be but an instrument in the fight.

So, I've recently developed an interest Hinduism, partly out of virtue of it being the last popular traditional Indo-European religion (thanks Christianity).

I recently finished the Bhagavad Gita. It was very well written, and I am always impressed when I find such philosophically complex works that are so very old. I do however have a question concerning cosmology, before reading the Gita I was under the impression that Brahman was the ultimate reality and that Vishnu and his avatar Krishna were a manifestation of it. However in the Gita Krishna seems to imply that he (or Vishnu) is the ultimate reality not Brahman. Have I misread what was said? Are there different views on this matter depending on the sect of Hinduism?

>>19112080
Those traditions that accept Brahman as the highest realization of Absolute Truth would say that when Krishna says, "I am the source of all material and spiritual," he is speaking metaphorically. Or perhaps more accurately Krishna is speaking representationally. The "I" referred to is the "I" in all of us, the "I" of consciousness itself.

They would say it is the "I" of Brahman that is the source of all spiritual and material existence, and the fact that the words came from the person and body of Krishna are irrelevant.

>Are there different views on this matter depending on the sect of Hinduism?
Basically.

Hare Krsna :3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgc4CvwjyOE

>>19112463
>>19112419

You were a lot more tolerant before, Ape. What changed? Are you just bored?

>>19107035
I tried to join an ISKCon commune. in the email I said I could help take care of the place, work the land, whatever they needed but I was broke and couldn't bring any money. they didn't even bother replying. poser assholes. but this was in eastern US. maybe they're not so full of shit in other areas.

>>19112595
I'm sorry for your experience with ISKCON. It is easy to forget in this world that the brahminical caste should be the ones without money, should be the ones offering everything to others, should be the ones begging for resources. We're in an age where technically most people are sudra or worse; selling themselves and their service for money.

My experience was the exact opposite. I showed up with nothing but my clothes and a book, and they gave me a room and some seva.

Are you still reading and chanting? Have you tried any other avenues for association?

>>19112624
I'm more into Zen Buddhism now. I'm open to most spiritual practices though.

>>19112457
Thank you for the clarification.

Don't know if this is the right thread or if anyone will know this, but I was curious if, historically, Hindus believed that the gods of other polytheisms (like the Greek one) where compatible with their cosmology? Or, perhaps, if the gods of other culture were just different names for the same entity (Zeus and Indra, for example, have a certain similarity)?

>>19112624
>begging
No wonder so many jews joined, you're parasites. Offer nothing, take all you can.

>>19113010
alot of the hindus i have talked to have accepted jesus christ as being a self realised being and perhaps and incarnation of god, but im on the other side im catholic but i find the philosphy compatable with my beliefs, not neccesarily the pantheon but in the aspect that jesus was brought to us as the son of god to show we are all also sons of god

>>19113010
I view similar and parallel personalities as different aspects of the same being. I would agree that Zeus and Indra are the same cosmoligical position, if not the same person. There have been many Indras, after all.

Although, I wouldn't have an issue conceptually of there being a person of great power the Vedic writings never mention. Quetzacoatl, for instance, doesn't really match anything described in Hinduism (yes, there are winged snakes, and powerful serpents, but nothing like the Mesoamerican god).

>Bg 4.7 — Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion – at that time I descend Myself.
>Bg 4.8 — To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium after millennium.

>>19104897
Is hare krsna movement growing in Poland? There seem to be many videos on utube. Is it real or just fancy dress parades?

>>19113140
It seems to be. What would you accept as evidence? Do you mean are the people in Poland sincere? I'm sure many are, and I'm sure the majority are not. But that's the same as any location on Earth.

>Bg 7.3 — Out of many thousands among men, one may endeavor for perfection, and of those who have achieved perfection, hardly one knows Me in truth.

From what I saw, Poland, Russia, and other former soviet nations were consistently in the top ten - often the top 3 or 5 - of temples and individuals distributing books. Not the best metric, but it indicates steady determination and interest.

>>19113140
There is nothing left spiritual in portland. All scams run by jews to corrupt any and all spiritual traditions. Check your sources, look into he REAL names of the people involved, and immediately leave any group asking or demanding for your money.

>>19113140
OOPs, Poland not Portland. Well, the advice still applies.

>>19104897
Hey OP, what do you have to say about this pedophilia? You guys make the catholics look good!
http://harekrsna.com/sun/news/03-08/news1876.htm
>Mar 7, PHNOM PENH, CAMBODIA (DPA) — The President of a Hare Krishna-affiliated aid organisation has been arrested from a guest house, allegedly in the company of two young girls in a state of undress, an anti-trafficking Police Chief said Thursday. US national Thomas Rapanos Wayne, alias Tattva Darshan das, whose age was not given, President of the non-government organisation Bhaktivedanta Eco Village (BEV) Cambodia, was allegedly arrested in a Phnom Penh guest house in the company of two girls aged 12 and 16.

>>19113661
This just means the institute of ISKCON is shitty, not Gaudiya Vaishnavism as a whole.

>>19113681
If they allow this to happen, and refuse to openly, publicly speak against it, they are implicit in the actions of the perverts who commit them.

How is thw magic hare krishna spell supposed to save the world?

>>19113661
I find it disgusting that such predators would exploit such a movement. However, I think even one such as a pedophile can take to Krishna Consciousness, and that forgiveness and redemption can be offered to all. I also think any person convicted of such crimes should never hold a position of respect or authority within a Vaishnava organization.

>You guys make the catholics look good!
I would point out the Catholic cases go back 30 years before the founding of ISKCON, continue to this day, and yet the Catholic Chruch didn't have a charter or organization specifically to combat this until 2002. ISKCON created the Child Protection Office in 1998.

ISKCON has also investigated and prosecuted their own members, as opposed to the culture and legal strategy of covering up abuse and protecting offenders. They are up front about their crimes and faults, and are trying hard to correct them.

>>19114203
>If they allow this to happen
They don't, any more than the cases of child abuse in places like US schools is evidence that they allow such crimes to happen.

>refuse to openly, publicly speak against it
Did you not notice that the news story came directly from an ISKCON-run site? You would not even know about it if it wasn't for ISKCON being openly against it.

Those actually interested in what ISKCON is doing for Child Protection, please check out the CPO
http://childprotectionoffice.org/main/
a response to a recent documentary looking at child abuse within the gurukulas
https://iskconnews.org/a-statement-on-child-protection-within-iskcon,5609/
and the documentary itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvlRAyM3p4Q

>>19115028
How many rounds do you chant daily?

I know 16 is the recommended minimum, but it's hard chanting that many consecutively because I'll get distracted by racing mental activity and I'll lose my focus. The thing is when doing japa, that mental activity never calms down like it does in meditation.

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>>19114771
The Hare Krishna maha-mantra is not magic. It is a direct address to the Supreme Person, asking for mercy and the opportunity to serve. It saves the world by reawakening our understanding of our eternal, constitutional position of part and parcel of the Supreme Whole.

>>19115043
Minimum 16. I know all at once is preferred, but I do 8 in the morning, 8 at night. On special days I will attempt 32 rounds, but usually when I chant "extra" it is done whimsically and not counting toward a round.

>I'll get distracted by racing mental activity and I'll lose my focus.
Perhaps slow your tempo? I know the temptation to watch a clock and make sure you're doing 2 rounds every 15 min or less, but I wonder if a clear and concentrated on vocation is better than saying the mantra five times fast without paying attention.

The other thing I would consider is engaging more of your senses on Krishna while doing japa. It is a different ideology to meditation than most. Instead of being aware of the senses and simply setting the desire aside - utilize as many senses as you can in the focus on Krishna. Let your eyes wander on His form. Let your mind flit across the tales. Use your intelligence to always be connected to Krishna - for what can you think of that ISN'T Krishna? What can you concentrate on that is not a part of Him?

>that mental activity never calms down like it does in meditation.
How are you differentiating japa and meditation? I am guessing you mean something like Buddhist mindfulness techniques; concentrating on the breath and such. Still, I would like to hear what you mean before I presume too much.

What is your experience when meditating on the mantra instead of doing japa?

>>19115081
I meant mindfulness meditation on breath, not meditating on the mantra

When I used to mediate on breath, my mind would start to get restless and I would occasionally lose focus and become absorbed in thoughts instead. However, the longer the meditation went on and the deeper it got the restlessness would fall away and I could focus entirely on the breath. In chanting however, the restlessness never falls away and I'm constantly pulled away from focusing on the mantra to becoming absorbed in thought. In Buddhist terms it's known as overcoming the five hinderances.

>>19115122
I'm not certain what I can offer further to help on this. If mindfulness meditation works better for you when it comes to quieting and controlling the mind, then do that. I can't think of any reason why you can't incorporate mindfulness into Krishna Consciousness. It isn't a replacement for japa, but if it helps it helps.

> Bg 6.5 — One must deliver himself with the help of his mind, and not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well.
>Bg 6.6 — For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest enemy.
> Bg 6.26 — From wherever the mind wanders due to its flickering and unsteady nature, one must certainly withdraw it and bring it back under the control of the Self.

>>19115211
So krishna is essentially Cthulu? You want eaten first.

You guys, I found liberation without subscribing to anything or any view. It was easy. It all started with listening to Alan Watts. It was free! Minus internet subscription.

>>19115279
I actually consider Cthulhu to be an aspect of Krishna. As Cthulhu is the embodiment of ultimate fear/madness/horror, and Krishna is represented in every category by the ultimate of that category, then of things that generate terror, Krishna is Cthulhu.

> Bg 10.19 — The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Yes, I will tell you of My splendorous manifestations, but only of those which are prominent, O Arjuna, for My opulence is limitless.
> Bg 10.31 — Of purifiers I am the wind, of the wielders of weapons I am Rāma, of fishes I am the shark, and of flowing rivers I am the Ganges.
> Bg 10.41 — Know that all opulent, beautiful and glorious creations spring from but a spark of My splendor.

>>19115295
The point of bhakti-yoga is not liberation.

>>19115338
any form of yoga is to reach liberation, that is the ultimate goal

>>19115338
You're so brainwashed mate. You cant relate everything to Krishna

>>19115338
Metaphoric language?

>>19115419
The goal of bhakti-yoga is to serve the Supreme Person. Liberation is unimportant and if detrimental to the service of a pure devotee, it is undesirable. For one in pure devotion, there is nothing to be liberated from.

SB 4.20.24 — My dear Lord, I therefore do not wish to have the benediction of merging into Your existence, a benediction in which there is no existence of the nectarean beverage of Your lotus feet. I want the benediction of at least one million ears, for thus I may be able to hear about the glories of Your lotus feet from the mouths of Your pure devotees.

Furthermore, there are numerous examples of those on the self-realized, liberated platform being attracted to the pastimes and attributes of Krishna.

> SB 1.7.10 — Sūta Gosvāmī said: All different varieties of ātmārāmas [those who take pleasure in the ātmā, or spirit self], especially those established on the path of self-realization, though freed from all kinds of material bondage, desire to render unalloyed devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead. This means that the Lord possesses transcendental qualities and therefore can attract everyone, including liberated souls.

There is an entire chapter on this in the Nectar of Devotion.
https://www.vedabase.com/en/nod/4

>>19115424
>You cant relate everything to Krishna
You must be deluded to NOT see everything in relation to Krishna.

> Bg 6.29 — A true yogī observes Me in all beings and also sees every being in Me. Indeed, the self-realized person sees Me, the same Supreme Lord, everywhere.
>Bg 6.30 — For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me.

>>19115431
Yes and no, but more yes than no.

>>19115473
liberation is the supreme goal for all beings, this cannot be disputed, but one may if so choose to remain in the body and devote the rest of their material existance to there chosen deity

>>19115531
>SB 6.17.27 — Lord Śiva said: My dear beautiful Pārvatī, have you seen the greatness of the Vaiṣṇavas? Being servants of the servants of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, they are great souls and are not interested in any kind of material happiness.
>SB 6.17.28 — Devotees solely engaged in the devotional service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa, never fear any condition of life. For them the heavenly planets, liberation and the hellish planets are all the same, for such devotees are interested only in the service of the Lord.

Even logically what you say makes no sense. How can liberation be the goal for a liberated being? Service to Krishna is the activity that begins after liberation.

>>19115557
liberation is the ultimate goal, if they are liberated they have reached the goal. they no longer need to do anything, but if they wish they may continue service to the lord, ofc there are some that dont seek liberation in this life and may only seek the devotion of the lord,

you honestly need to read other scriptures other than ones perscribed by your cult, hinduism is far richer and more indepth than just the bhagavad gita and srimad bhagavan and even those when not cultified by iskcon show you that seeking the lord eventualy leads you to liberation, ever the trinity have desolved and been roborn into and from brahman

>>19115600
>liberation is the ultimate goal
Gaudiya Vaishnavism disagrees. Or more specifically, simply freeing ourselves from material bondage will not satisfy the eternal soul. The soul desires to act, and if they have no understanding of spiritual activity, they fall again into material activity.

But once a soul gains a taste for spiritual activity, there is no chance of returning to material. That spiritual activity is loving service to Krishna.

>you honestly need to read other scriptures
I have. Have you read the Bhagavat Purana at all? Have you read the Chaitanya Bhagavat or the Chaitanya Caritamrita? Have you read the Padma Purana, Garuda Purana, or Kalki Purana? Have you read the Isa, Svetasvatara, Chandogya, or Muhkya Upanishad?

You come here telling me to read more scripture, but where is your scripture? Where is your sloka to support your assertions? Everything I say I can reference back to the Personality of Godhead Lord Chaitanya Himself.

>na dhanam na janam na sundarim
>kavitam va jagad-isha kamaye
>mama janmani janmanishvare
>bhavatad bhaktir ahaituki twayi

>O almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor do I desire beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. I only want Your causeless devotional service birth after birth.

This is not cultish imaginings. This is authentic Gaudiya Vaishnavism. I say clearly when I am speculating or giving my opinion. I say clearly when I do not know. You may foolishly say Gaudiya Vaishnavism is wrong, but you are insane to deny the tradition.

Even further than that, I will gladly give you direct quotes from Madhvacarya's commentary on the Gita firmly establishing the dvaitia tradition.

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>>19115338
>Cthulhu is Krishna
/x/ never changes...
>>19115531
"Liberation" is not a goal but a choice to flee. Some of us are here by choice and vow, bound to a cause, for our people, to be called back to fight at the end of the cycle. Hindus call this the end of the Kali Yuga I believe, we call it Ragnarok. By this knot I am bound by my own will, through sacrifice of myself to myself, for my people. My destiny is tied.

>>19115473
ok you're defo brainwashed. I want to give u some reality checks but im afraid you'd kill yourself

>>19115531
Liberation is more of a byproduct in Vaishnavism than a goal. The goal in Vaishnavism is pleasing Krishna through selfless service, as that's the highest state possible. Aiming to please Krishna simply for attaining liberation and then planning not to is a lower spiritual state, as you are expecting some gain.