Anyone have anything info on lucid dreams or how to get them?

>>19064952
yes

I don't no

Just stick to the plan, for months. Nothing to do with your chakra bullshit. All in brain.

If you smoke weed or take any substance that effects REM sleep you can kiss lucid dreaming goodbye.

>>19065128
Not true this meme must die. We already went over this in another thread. Plenty of people can do it.

>>19065132
If you habitually smoke cannabis it effects your REM sleep, this is a scientific fact.

>>19065134
Ok, that's fine. It's not a scientific fact that smoking it habitually prevents you from lucid dreaming, though, It may make recall more difficult, sure. But people need to stop saying it "prevents" lucid dreaming and astral projection. It does not, as there are many including myself who have experience to the contrary. There are also plants one can consume that help counteract the negative effects of weed on lucid dreaming.

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>>19064952
Here's a short writeup I made some time ago that should answer the basics but if you have any further questions, go right ahead.

>>19065143
>It's not a scientific fact that smoking it habitually prevents you from lucid dreaming, though
Lucid dreaming entirely relies on entering REM.
Habitual usage of any substance that denies this state does in fact prevent lucid dreaming.
There is science, and then there is your pseudo-science.

>>19065152
Weed does not "prevent" REM sleep

>During the night, the brain cycles through 4 different stages of sleep, spending the most time in deep sleep (or slow-wave sleep) and REM sleep. The amount of time spent in these two stages is closely related. In fact, studies show that marijuana lengthens the time the brain spends in deep sleep, which leads to less REM sleep.

Ingesting THC or marijuana before bed also appears to reduce the density of rapid eye movements during REM sleep. Interestingly, less REM density has been linked to more restful sleep.

You can call it pseudoscience all you want, yet here I am, astral projecting and lucid dreaming on a regular basis and smoking 1-6x per day.

Incomplete understanding of science on your part does not constitute a reality on everyone else's part.

>>19065163
Your quote is useless and proves you wrong.

"Idiopathic REM sleep behavior disorder (RBD) is a potential preclinical marker for the development of neurodegenerative diseases, particularly Parkinson disease (PD) and Lewy body dementia"

"the risk of developing neurodegenerative disease in idiopathic REM sleep behavior disorder is substantial"

" reduced eye movements density with some tolerance developing to this effect"

"The MJ users showed differences in PSG measures (lower total sleep times, and less slow wave sleep than the control group) on both nights; they also showed worse sleep efficiency, longer sleep onset, and shorter REM latency than the control group on Night 2. More sleep continuity parameters were significantly worse for the MJ group than the control group on Night 2 versus Night 1, indicating that sleep in the MJ group was relatively worse on Night 2 compared to Night 1. The MJ group did not show improved sleep after an adaptation night as expected."
Stop being wrong.

>>19065163
"Sleep abnormalities are associated with acute and chronic use of addictive substances. Although sleep complaints associated with use and abstinence from addictive substances are widely recognized"

" Previous work from our laboratory has shown that cannabis induces aggressive behaviour in rats that have been deprived of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep. It was suggested that this effect was related to brain catecholamines, with dopamine playing an agonist role and noradrenaline an inhibitory one. The present paper describes new experiments dealing with this subject. 2. Previous REM sleep-deprivation enhanced both delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)-induced hypothermia and nomifensine effects on aggressive behaviour. 3. A marihuana extract decreased brain dopamine turnover in REM sleep-deprived rats, an effect not observed in non-deprived rats. Noradrenaline metabolism was not altered. 4. Fighting behaviour was elicited in REM sleep-deprived rats treated with 4 different dopamine-beta-hydroxylase inhibitors. 5. Apomorphine, nomifensine and delta9-THC administered to non-deprived rats pretreated with bis(4-methyl-1-homopiperanzinyl-thiocarbonyl) disulphide (Fla-63), induced fighting behaviour. 6. Nomifensine and apomorphine induced fighting in non-deprived rats pretreated with delta9-THC. 7. Clonidine inhibited the fighting elicited in REM sleep-deprived rats by either delta9-THC or Fla-63 pretreatment. 8. The data are discussed in terms of the influence of REM sleep-deprivation (or the stress associated with deprivation) on the response to dopaminergic drugs and cannabis. Taken together they emphasize the participation of brain dopamine and noradrenaline systems in the aggressive behaviour studied."

Have fun with your mental disorders.

>>19065134
I agree. I do not get as vivid or as frequent. But I do dream. And I smoke way too much, like 2 vaporizer bowls before bed.

>>19065163
" If this is the case, it would be expected that REM sleep episodes get longer toward the end of a sleep period, when most circuits have already benefited from NREM sleep and the need to perform their offline performance testing before waking up becomes a high priority. The increasing trend in sleep spindles activity across the night, in parallel with decreasing sleep pressure (Dijk 1995; Knoblauch and others 2002; Olbrich and Achermann 2005; Vyazovskiy and others 2004b), is also consistent with our hypothesis that spindles reflect the process of tagging cortical networks for the selection process. On the other hand, several studies showed that chronic sleep restriction leads to a massive increase in REM sleep (Kim and others 2007; Leemburg and others 2010; Rechtschaffen and others 1999). We suggest that in this case, the occurrence of NREM-like activities during prolonged waking (Benington and Heller 1999; Vyazovskiy and others 2011) likely provides only a non-systematic, limited recovery to local networks only, while the selection process is prevented by actual waking behaviors"

Enjoy the damage you are doing to your self.

>>19065190
"Ok."
If you want to believe smoking weed prevents lucid dreaming or Astral projection, that's fine. I just thought, considering the amount of anecdotal evidence from heavy pot smokers who DO lucid dream and AP, that you would be interested. I Give zero fucks. I don't have to prove to myself that I have been doing it while smoking every day. That's what my dream journal is for.

In fact, I don't even get what you're trying to prove. The only thing you could possibly be trying to do in your autism is convince yourself you are right, or discredit me and all the other regular smokers who lucid dream and AP. You must have a REALLY weird agenda, anon.

>>19065145
I've reached that "free fall" stage several times, but the sensation always startles me and I tense my body.

Any tips for making it past this stage?

>>19065211
>If you want to believe smoking weed prevents lucid dreaming or Astral projection, that's fine
It is a scientific fact that preventing REM sleep hampers your ability to dream.
Should I continue proving you wrong with science?

>>19065209
>in rats
Zozzle

Are you a reformed pot smoker or something? Why the hostility and autism? Still have yet to see you post conclusive studies proving that it PREVENTS lucid dreaming, which is what the whole discussion was about, but clearly you have an ax to grind.

>>19065211
>"The MJ users showed differences in PSG measures (lower total sleep times, and less slow wave sleep than the control group) on both nights; they also showed worse sleep efficiency, longer sleep onset, and shorter REM latency than the control group on Night 2"

>b-b-but FUCK YOU ANON I HAVE DREAMS TOO YOU KNOW

>>19065217
>inol (THC)-induced hypothermia and nomifensine effects on aggressive behaviour. 3. A marihuana extract decreased brain dopamine turnover in REM sleep-deprived rats, an effect not observed in non-deprived rats. Noradrenaline metabolism was not altered. 4. Fighting behaviour was elicited in REM sleep-deprived rats treated with 4 different dopamine-beta-hydroxylase inhibitors. 5. Apomorphine, nomifensine and delta9-THC administered to non-deprived rats pretreated with bis(4-methyl-1-homopiperanzinyl-thiocarbonyl) disulphide (Fla-63), induced fighting behaviour. 6. Nomifensine and apomorphine induced fighting in non-deprived rats pretreated with delta9-THC. 7. Clonidine inhibited the fighting elicited in REM sleep-deprived rats by either delta9-THC or Fla-63 pretreatment. 8. The data are discussed in terms of the influence of REM sleep-deprivation (or the stress associated with deprivation) on the response to dopaminergic drugs and cannab
Yes, it hampers it, and I said that WAYYY the fuck up here: >>19065143
Interfering and completely inhibiting are completely different things. I expect more out of fedoras who quote scholarly articles.

>>19065221
see

"The MJ users showed differences in PSG measures (lower total sleep times, and less slow wave sleep than the control group) on both nights; they also showed worse sleep efficiency, longer sleep onset, and shorter REM latency than the control group on Night 2. More sleep continuity parameters were significantly worse for the MJ group than the control group on Night 2 versus Night 1, indicating that sleep in the MJ group was relatively worse on Night 2 compared to Night 1. The MJ group did not show improved sleep after an adaptation night as expected."

and

"Among heavy cannabis users, shorter REM latency and a longer sleep onset have been observed compared to controls [33]. Cessation of long-term heavy use of cannabis reduces sleep quality by decreasing total sleep length as well as the amount of SWS [34]. Poor sleep quality was one of the reasons that abstinent heavy cannabis users relapse [35]. "

>>19065213
There's nothing you can really do but try until you can fight through it.

>>19065228
"In general, young adults show abundant levels of SWS (deep sleep), averaging greater than 58 min during the night and about 20% of TST. Subjective reports of disturbed sleep in MJ users once they discontinue MJ use1,2 may relate to lower levels of SWS.25 Decreased SWS has previously been reported in abstinent MJ users26 and chronic alcoholics; SWS can often take more than 6 months to recover to normal amounts.27,28 For Nights 1 and 2, the MJ users had shorter mean initial REM latency than controls. A shortening of initial REM latency (< 90 min) may be secondary to a rebound phenomenon that may be related to reports of REM suppression from acute MJ administration.5,6"

The more you smoke the less you experience REM, with the decreased duration of REM comes to the prevention of dreaming entirely.

Congrats

>>19065229
Yes, it makes it harder to dream/lucid dream, etc. I get it. but it doesn't prevent it. Your assertion was that it prevents it altogether, for which you have posted zero evidence. Also, I usually just take some mugwort, coleus, or African Dream Root and it seems to balance out the negative effects of the weed.

>>19065241
So just relax and enjoy the ride, in a sort of way?

>>19065245
Other than your sentence that you typed at the end, nothing here says that. Why are you such a fedora crusader white knight autistic fag, anyway? Jesus H.

>>19065247
>but it doesn't prevent it. Your assertion was that it prevents it altogether, for which you have posted zero evidence
You have to be in REM to dream.

"Usually, REM sleep happens 90 minutes after you fall asleep. The first period of REM typically lasts 10 minutes. Each of your later REM stages gets longer, and the final one may last up to an hour. Your heart rate and breathing quickens.

You can have intense dreams during REM sleep, since your brain is more active."

Denying this denies dreams entirely.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1073858413518152

>>19065258
Also,
> "Congrats"
Again, why are you so concerned about what everyone else does? Are you one of those people who spergs out every time they smoke and is jealous of people who can live a normal life and still smoke? Where from did your spergers come?

>>19065263
Yes, and nothing in what you posted says that marijuana causes REM to cease entirely. This is becoming circular and I suspect I am debating someone who is down a quart, so I'm going to fuck off and do something productive.

>>19065274
Go ahead and just google "REM and dreaming" you absolute mongoloid. This is far from rocket science.
Empirically, many smokers have also reported complete cessation of dreaming.

>>19065255
Right, you have to let it guide you. The moment you try to control things (either physically or mentally), you're done.

>>19065282
>so I'm going to fuck off and do something productive.
Smoking weed isn't productive loser.

>marijuana causes REM to cease entirely.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2442418/


RIP

>>19065285
>Empirically
Lel
>Many
Lel

>>19065292
>by means of observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

Woah

>>19065292
woah look this is empirical

http://www.cannabisculture.com/content/2016/09/25/dont-dream-smoking-weed

>>19065303
I guess Cheech and Chong should have died decades ago, going that many years without a single night of REM!

Please, though, tell me why you are spazzing out about this so much? There HAS to be a reason why you are white knighting to a point of retardation?

>>19065311
>I guess Cheech and Chong should have died decades ago, going that many years without a single night of REM!
Leave hyperbole to those who have a grasp on the English language.

Logic, reason, and science will always trump the uneducated.

>>19065316
>Please, though, tell me why you are spazzing out about this so much? There HAS to be a reason why you are white knighting to a point of retardation?
Please, do tell.
>Leave hyperbole to those who have a grasp on the English language.
That wasn't hyperbole, you are positing that REM is completely inhibited by weed (the only way lucid dreaming could be 100% impossible). That means chronic smokers should be dead from lack of rest.

>Logic, reason, and science will always trump the uneducated.
I would bet $100 that you have been diagnosed with some form of autism. I'm not even joking. It shows.

>>19065303
I dream vividly every night with weed.

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read this book months ago, itll help u a lot, first time i had one it was insane lol

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>>19065197
being sober in this world is a mental disorder itself

>>19065291
you're so fucking buttmad lol

if weed caused REM to cease entirely there wouldn't be people who smoke weed and have dream experiences. not everyone is exactly like you. for someone who loves dickriding science you're omitting logic entirely and that's holding you back

>>19065128
melatonin works well

i love how far the majority of you faggots go off the cliff when it comes to this stuff......master yoda up there with his fucking step by step eyeball mantra method......has nothing to do with the conditions you try to impose on your sleep. its what you do and how you think while you are awake..... this is real magic and conditioning yourself to step outside normal mental boundaries and staying there as long as possible..it requires you to completely change your idea of consciousness ...If any of you can actually point to what lucid dream states relate to and what they mean i will be really impressed,,,,

>>19067582
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZtwoXf_xTg&index=5&list=PLfWNCpcAnDEPMGCsaqOhek4xOJVX-Hw5L

this will tell you everything you want to know. Watch all of it , shut your mouths, and take it all in

Is this where I can ask about dreams? If not, I apologize.

Recently, I had, possibly a dream, where I was laying on my back in my bed, and a completely black figure walked through my open door in my bedroom. In the dream I could only see a little up to their waist, but they were entirely black and blurry, unrecognizable. It reached out its hand, and touched my side, then turn around and left. Shortly after, I lifted up my head, no longer asleep and fully awake. I couldn't honestly tell if I was dreaming or not, I got up and pulled out a knife, thinking someone had invaded my apartment room, but nothing was there, so I just went back to bed.

I wouldn't normally care, because I've had strange dreams before, just never IN MY BEDROOM making me confused if it was real or not.

The next night, I was asleep, laying on my side with my back towards the side of the bed that thing came from. I.....felt something touch my back...the same area of the bed where it happened before, only on my back now. I instantly woke up and turned around to see nothing.

Sooo, am I going crazy? What the fuck was that? Is there a way to stop this? I'm more just mad I seemingly keep getting woke up in the middle of the night, and that its happened twice now.

>>19067608 got anything non cliche? you maybe had a dream that you are now more than likely spicing up after the fact to seem more edgy. you are a skitz cunt and should do less meth. or more meth . whichever. works. seriusly tho if u have events making you wave knives around because of shit happening in your head. u might want to give your head a shake before u hurt yourself and others in your vicinity

>>19065197
>in rats

>>19067628
Well I didn't make it up, it happened. I live alone, so I was just thinking someone broke in, and just being prepared, which didn't last long when I realized nobody was there. Wouldn't you be pissed if you couldn't get a good nights sleep?

Now if you want more emotional, possibly "non-cliche" dreams I have had before, I could tell you about them. From seemingly talking to dead people, to something I still haven't been able to explain. Really, I just wanted to know a way to stop it.

>>19067646
Oh, forgot to add that I don't take medication of any kind.

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Read Stephen LaBerge. He basically invented all important techniques

>>19065247
I've got dried mugwort, how much should I take?

>>19068002
Bump

>>19065730
>NO SCIENCE SAID YOU DONT SO YOURE LYING SHUT UP!

why do aspie retards come to /x/ to show off what good boys they are? nobody here cares which (((scientific studies))) youve deluded yourselves into believing.

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Alright, let me sum it up for you.
>Does weed prevent you from dreaming or lucid dreaming?
no

>Does weed objectively decrease your chances and the overall quality of the experience?
yes

It is proven that weed shortens the amount of you REM sleep. This, in turn gives you a smaller time frame to realise you are dreaming and makes any potentional lucid experience shorter.
What is not scientifically proven but is widely reported is that it also worsens your dream recall. Your dream recall is based on how much are you actually present in the dream. And how much you are present in a dream is directly related to the amount of dream control you posess. If you have low dream control, the quality of your experience is going to be bad.

In conclusion, weed does not prevent lucid dreams, but if don't want to unnecessarily limit your own ld abilities, you'd better stop smoking it. Not to mention it's degenerate.

>>19067892
this

>>19065128
not really

Here's how to lucid dream.

Step 1: Realize you're dreaming.

You're now lucid dreaming.

>>19066963
Lol thanks anon. Apparently I am autistic too, because it took me until here:>>19065343
To realize I was dealing with a literal autist... I know from people I know in person that all the science in the world cannot deny personal experience. Idk if you were in the last thread about luciddreaming, but plenty of anons talked about being able to lucid dream and get high in there... while never denying that it was at least slightly decreased! There are substances to help remember dreams as well, so look into those if necessary.

>>19069818
>Step 1: Realize you're dreaming.
that doesnt work for me. if i start to notice things every one in the dream tries to distract me. its like they have a level of self preservation or there is a cut away to a different place and other people doing other shit

>>19068471
>it's degenerate
Says the fag posting here as much as everyone lose... listen here, anon, some of us degenerate smokers own our own businesses, run other businesses, are finishing our higher degrees, etc. So I will take that kind of degeneracy over your autism any day.

>>19070095
*everyone else

People who want to hump their stake on the topic of weed to the MUH SCIENCE thus far might want to remember who has been funding most of them and why. For example, the people who made the anti-nausia drug I was told I needed did a few studies attempting to prove weed causes cancer. Nevermind their drug's side effects are infinitely worse, amirite? There is a .0000000009% chance smoking a little pot in the morning to stop all nausea for the day is going to give me cancer! I guess I better avoid that chance and take the drug I must adhere to a very special diet to take or I'll drop dead. GOOD THINKING.

I'm sure Gatorade does some good science but it doesn't mean they're unbiased when they steer you away from natural solutions to hydration to their products.

I might have expected more from /x/ when it comes to "muh science" but I'm not surprised. There are authority cucks errywhere. Seriously, you people should be killing yourselves for you "real science" crap. The shame of you brainlets being allowed to make children.

>>19064952
After working on lucid dreaming I became a master at it and ended up hating my life and loving my dreams. I sleep for 14 hours a day and every dream conveys me some weird message. I don't know what to do.

>>19070221
Yeah anon, a Gatorade is truly detrimental to hydration... when I was in hospital with renal failure, they would not let me drink Gatorade, Powerade, or any such drinks. Also, all the sodium products in it mean it should be cut by by water at *least* 50% in order to avoid DEhydration.

>>19064952
Having insomnia and taking melatonin helps. I've heard of some people dehydrating themselves just to experience them. Personally, I have insomnia so when I do sleep, I normally lucid dream.

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>>19064952
Yes. You're lucid dreaming right now. Go outside right now and fuck some shit up. It's fun.

>>19070238
i doubt thats true. its probably because what the heck did u expect to achieve. and you may be missing the point altogether

LOSING MY RELIGION

>>19064952
Try Google, fuckstick. There's plenty of shit out there about the subject. Stop being lazy

>>19065197
Avast i bested ye with a copy and paste from wikipedia

>>19068002
One to two teaspoons. I usually do two to three, but it will be very bitter. Also it's somewhat toxic so don't drink it every night.

>>19065163
Rem sleep also is shown to give you the ability to unconsciously go over what you experienced in day time. If you reach rem sleep after studying for a test the night before, you are more prepared for it the next day.

Back when I used to smoke I would finish my last bowl at about 3 in the morning and then sleep until 12 or 1.
I would notice coming close to my 12-hour period of without smoking I would start to dream about 12 to 3 in the afternoon. I don't smoke now, over two years sober. but my dreams are infrequent

>>19067594
ty for this friend

>>19067582
If you can point to proof of the existence of consciousness, what it actually is and means, I will be really impressed.

I've had them since my earliest memories, but I never wish for them. They are too real and disturbing despite knowing they're just a dream in my experience. When I experience them it's not voluntary, I just become aware and con do what I want. I also have a lot of "waking dreams"/sleep paralysis and wiggle my toes and fingers to wake up. I just have a bad taste in my mouth over it.

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>>19072924
What would you like to know about consciousness. I'll give you two questions.

The base of consciousness is in the electromagnetic spectrum and gravity.

>>19070095
>Says the fag posting here as much as everyone lose

I said smoking weed is degenerate, I never said posting on this board is degenerate. I think you kind of mixed that up. Apart from that, if you own a business, run other businesses, are finishing your higher degree or are doing something with your life in general, you are not the kind of person I have anything against. Having one bad trait doesn't define your whole being.
As for my personal experience, most of the potheads I know are lazy fucks who are fine with spending all their free time staring at a wall while being high and complete failures. I could describe those experiences in detail, but I doubt you would be interested.

I tend to get them a lot, not through trying but this is how it generally goes

>Be dreaming
>In town or in my room
>Notice something looks odd or something doesn't seem right
>Notice it and how it isn't possible for it to happen irl
>Think "shit, I must be dreaming"
>Realise in dreaming
>Proceed to try and fly about and do random shit I wanna do

A lot of my dreams feel super real and I remember them very clearly

>>19074704
Well anon, I am glad you are cool like that. I assumed you were another artist with an ax to grind. I don't disagree, I have known several potheads to be lazy degenerates... I just happen to know more who lead normal lives like myself... but I am aware these experiences are highly individual depending on location, background, etc. I still contend that most 4chan posters are degenerate, though. I do not believe myself to be above that definition, either.

>>19074737
*lazy autist. Sorry, autocorrect.

>>19065221
the burning mightve burned him once and he's looking to save others.
can't be a helicopter, at least not aggressively

>>19074756
Teehee I always wonder about folks like that. It seems you'd have to be fairly unstable or inexperienced to have a negative experience with the reef.

>>19065263
All your sources say that REM phase gets shorter. Not non-existant.
I can't phrase it easier. Are you, like, the dumbest person alive?

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>>19074737
I'm glad to hear it. Posting on 4chan actually improved my english greatly, so it's not all that bad. But I'd be lying if I said I post here solely for that purpose, that's just a byproduct.

Perhaps, using the word "degenerate" was a bit over the top. And please note that this is only according to my personal experience. But I've noticed certain behavioral changes in my friends and acquaintances who have been smoking weed regularly. They became apathetic, their attention span got extremely short, their short-term memory worsened and that's just the start of it. I still don't know whether it was smoking weed what caused it or vice versa. But it was what made me think of smoking weed as trading off short-time diversion for the posibility of fucking up your brain in the long-term. I should say that I am no epitome of virtue, but that is a shallow thing to do in my book. That's also why I got into a habit of discouraging people from it.

Still, we are talking about people who smoked daily and in heavy amounts, basically weed addicts. If you occasionally roll a joint, there should be no problem at all.

There still is much to debate, but it looks like I've written a lot more than I initially wanted so I'm going to stop here. If you got through my wall of text, I congratulate you and wish you sucess in whatever career you are pursuing. And don't take that weed thing too personally.

>>19074864
Thank you for carrying on my side, anon. The only conclusion here is that the wiki quoting anon is *literally* autistic

>>19067892
this one helped me get started back a few years ago and got to the falling phase but then abandoned it. thought i would try and give it another shot recently using the technique where you lay still till your body falls asleep but my heart starts to race on the onset. any ideas on how to circumvent this?

>>19075112
this

i also get an annoying clicking noise in the back of my nose when I lay on my back