the mystery school tradition

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Mph has an online store for his research center.

Buy
Secret teachings of all ages
Melchizedek
Alchemy
Phoenix

Tons of audio lectures on youtube

>>18989233

I believe your time will be better spent with teachings by Jung and Campbell. They feel more practical.

>>18989314
>>18989349
does anyone still do initiations in person though? i feel like that would be the best experience. especially to help guide through higher and deeper levels of meditation / ergot ceremonies :)

>>18989355
No initiation if you self study.

The initiation comes from the hermetic teachings(read those too)

>>18989371
>No initiation if you self study.
>
>The initiation comes from the hermetic teachings(read those too)
meaning i wouldn't be accepted as an initiate if i self study?
i feel like i'd better grasp the full gestalt by not self-studying but i feel like i'm not likely to find a group in person :-/

>>18989371
won't i be missing out on the important oral tradition, which as i understand it often serves as a necessary 'key' to unlocking the written texts?

or were MPH, jung, etc able to record that?

>>18989233
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_Hammadi_library

This is good for understanding the background to the spiritual life of Jesus and his disciples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE5MFF2UNB4
This may not be what you're exactly looking but it's a start: https://www.youtube.com/user/tednottingham/videos?flow=grid&view=0&sort=p

>>18989314
>Melchizedek
>Alchemy
>Phoenix
anyone got a lead on these electronically?

>>18989233
I think a lot of what they teach is accessible to the general public nowadays. Back then society was a lot more rigidly religious, so it had to be hidden.

I was going to try to join the Masons but apparently you need 3 people as "references".

I'm much too autistic for that.

>>18989696
You can find the audio lectures, not melchizedek though, its strangely phantom for such an important topic.

>>18989392
Oral tradition is opportunity for error. However they have it down quite good. Masons were very impressed by MPH's work.

>>18990629
ditto. particularly since even after being admitted it's still a number of years before you move up the ranks to receive the more occult (as in hidden) knowledge.

Melchizedek

This

>>18990629
You don't have three people who've known you for two years?

>>18990661
Dude, you don't receive anything. You have to find it yourself. Masonry is just a tool for it.

>>18989233
Just become a gnostic.

>>18991571
how do i achieve gnosis tho

>>18991573

It's quite simple really.
You read stuff (like the things mentioned)
Then you contemplate it.

Contemplation is deep, deep, deep thought.
It's like meditation, but you are meditating on this subject.

You can ask spirits to help you.

Basically thats all it is. At some point after a very very long process, you will shift your consciousness.

You can begin by listening to your heart, trusting your intuition, and dealing (however hard it is) with emotional baggage.

A good channel on youtube is "aeon byte gnostic radio" he has lots of good guests on and their books are - awesome.

A good one to start with is Jesus and the Lost Goddess. It gives some good info on Sophia. Sophia is wisdom.

Let me just tell you - you are already on the path of gnosis.

Basically Masons etc are hoarders of ancient gnostic knowledge. But they are a bunch of drunks and faggots now. The best way is to learn by yourself.

Links:

https://www.amazon.com/Gnostic-Bible-Revised-Expanded-ebook/dp/B00AITRIT4/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1494383405&sr=1-2&keywords=the+gnostic+bible

https://www.amazon.com/Nag-Hammadi-Scriptures-Translation-Complete/dp/0061626007/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494383469&sr=8-1&keywords=nag+hammadi

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Lost-Goddess-Teachings-Christians/dp/1400045940/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1494383495&sr=8-1&keywords=jesus+and+the+lost+goddess

REALLY GOOD STARTER BOOK:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0046ZS3IG/ref=oh_aui_d_detailpage_o02_?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Buy some tarot cards as well and learn to use them.

Good luck!!

>>18991600
i know this stuff transcends any particular religion so i'm curious why all the mentioning of gnosticism. truth be told i don't have much of an interest in Christianity and i tend to resonate more with the version of heirarchical "mono-polytheistic" paganism that MPH describes.

>>18991600
Checked and thanks

>>18991744
imo gnosticism isn't a religion, but more of a philosophy that centers around I suppose a sort of spiritual journey towards knowledge and wisdom. But there might be some business there with the demi-urge/other super natural things that may make it a religion but im not sure.

>>18991744
Gnosticism covers all religions and atheism, they are all paths of awakening but have been controlled and ripped to shreds by our controllers.

The gnostic bible contains texts from all religions.

Gnosticism means "knowledge" experiential knowledge. That is the path of the mystery schools of old (they were gnostic).

The whole of christianity was an ancient mystery school. Take away the religious aspects of Christianity, I'm not trying to convert you :)

This is simply one angle of awakening.

If you choose Manly P Hall and Secret Teachings of the ages, and modern theosophy - it is still gnosticism, it is the same end goal but a different path to it.

So good luck to you

>>18991800
If you read Blavatsky the same themes are there.

There is no way you could class Gnosticism as any sort of classically defined religion.

The gnostics are the ultimate seekers of knowledge/wisdom. Hence being killed off by the power elites, and their knowledge hoarded for themselves and buried for the masses.

>>18989233
Read, like a possesed madman.

The books are publicaly avaible (not all of them tough), masons still have massive libraries even if they themselves don't read them.

Do you guys believe gnosticism is connected to Buddhism in any way? Heard there were some Buddhist graves in Alexandria from antiquity, around the time classic gnostic stuff like the Hermes Trigemistus text was written and such came about. But I don't know enough about gnosticism to know if that supposed connection is true, what do you guys think?

>>18991866
It's all rooted in Indoeuropean traditions, so maybe.

>>18991866
I believe somewhere I learned that either Plato or Pythagoras studied at one or more of the Eastern mystery schools, in addition to initiation in the Egyptian and Eleusinian mysteries. Both Hinduism and Buddhism had/have mystery traditions.

>>18991895
god. rereading this sentence. this stuff is so fascinating. how does not everyone care about this.

>>18991903
You're written off as crazy or heretical for any non mainstream belief. If Jesus came back today he'd still be a heretic to these people.

>>18991910
Meanwhile, Christ was more than likely an initiate too... Tingles up and down my arms

>>18991924
The truth is so far stranger than this veiled reality we live in.

Things that to me seem obvious are laughed at. To think, out of the billions of planets in billions of galaxies in billions of stars clusters that we are the only species.

Yet science has told us that we are a random fluke, nothing special. I'm personally a directed panspermist

There is no other logic except that there is a divine reality.

If that's true, then the universe is far more vast and mysterious than us weak mortals can fathom.

>>18992002
Planetary Physical Types
49:2.1.There is a standard and basic pattern of vegetable and animal life in each system. But the Life Carriers are oftentimes confronted with the necessity of modifying these basic patterns to conform to the varying physical conditions which confront them on numerous worlds of space. They foster a generalized system type of mortal creature, but there are seven distinct physical types as well as thousands upon thousands of minor variants of these seven outstanding differentiations:
49:2.2.1. Atmospheric types.
49:2.3.2. Elemental types.
49:2.4.3. Gravity types.
49:2.5.4. Temperature types.
49:2.6.5. Electric types.
49:2.7.6. Energizing types.
49:2.8.7. Unnamed types.

>>18992002
15:2.10.Excluding the Paradise-Havona spheres, the plan of universe organization provides for the following units:
15:2.11.Superuniverses............ 7
15:2.12.Major sectors............. 70
15:2.13.Minor sectors............ 7,000
15:2.14.Local universes......... 700,000
15:2.15.Constellations.........70,000,000
15:2.16.Local systems........ 7,000,000,000
15:2.17.Inhabitable planets.. 7,000,000,000,000
15:2.18.Each of the seven superuniverses is constituted, approximately, as follows:
15:2.19.One system embraces, approximately............. 1,000 worlds
15:2.20.One constellation (100 systems)...............100,000 worlds
15:2.21.One universe (100 constellations)........... 10,000,000 worlds
15:2.22.One minor sector (100 universes)......... 1,000,000,000 worlds
15:2.23.One major sector (100 minor sectors).... 100,000,000,000 worlds
15:2.24.One superuniverse (10 major sectors)...1,000,000,000,000 worlds

>>18991573
>how do i achieve gnosis tho
gnosis achieves you

>>18991573
>how do i achieve gnosis tho
>>18991600
>It's quite simple really.
Don't listen to this idiot. He speaks lies.

>>18992002
>>18992036
>>18992040

No one reads posts like this. Why do you do this?

Form your thoughts into something cohesive and share them. Otherwise, seriously just shut the fuck up holy shit.

>>18991600

This person has made it abundantly clear they know absolutely nothing about what they're saying.

Anyone who has explored any of these topics with seriousness can tell he just copy/pasted pieces form various wikipedia articles.

Don't waste your time with this if you want true answers and guidance. There are many people out there to purposely cloud your way, and this is a prime example.

>>18991573
>how do i achieve gnosis tho
>>18992216
>gnosis achieves you
I meant to say you receive gnosis, not achieve it.

Gnosis is not what you think it is. It is not some form of Buddhist enlightenment etc. It is a path that only a chosen few walk and it is not easy. It is not a path you choose to follow but a path that one finds himself walking on. It is impossible to explain gnosis to someone who has not undergone gnosis themselves because it is knowledge that can only be known not learned.

The best advice I can give you is keep an open yet logical and rational mind on your path of research.

>>18992229
Hell anon.

I did not go on wikipedia once, I will admit however that I am new to gnosticism.

I do not for one second believe anyone truly being guided to gnosis will be clouded by what I told them.

Oh you imply deliberate effort to cloud the future gnosis of some anonymous person on the internet. Perhaps I'm an archon?

kek.

Oh by the way, why would I go into detail to someone who knows nothing of the path?

Perhaps I should tell them about the spirits I communicate with?

Perhaps I should tell them about chakras, reiki, or about astral travel, perhaps I should tell them about the true nature of reality and go into detail to them and watch them go jump off a roof cos they can't handle it?

Don't be stupid, slowly slowly..theres a reason that all gnostic material is allegory.

Well done being an armchair critic, criticizing those trying to help others, interesting how you posted 0 information to help him.

>>18989392
Initiation Into Jemetics by Franz Bardon is what you need.

Also look up William Mistele and Rawn Clark (two practitioners with lots of writing).

It is a method of self initiation. If you have developed the right psychic senses, the whole universe initiates you. You don't need "exact" oral tradition because you'll be able to perceive what's right or not.

>>18992953
>Initiation Into Jemetics by Franz Bardon is what you need.
pardon my naivety but this appears to be a book about magic. i'm interested in spiritual alchemy. elevating my spirit. performing the Great Work. etc. not trying to talk to elementals or levitate stuff. is this really an appropriate text?

>make a library full of initiatory source documents including reconstructions of Gnostic initiations
>people ITT still recommending Bardon as either Hermetic or Initiatory

>>18983561

>>18993042
welcome to /x/.

>>18989233
Here's the fact. The Mystery School teaches the truth of the Luciferian Tradition. It is at the center of every true secret society. They worship the Spiritual Sun, Prometheus, Wotan, Sophia Lucifer.

The Masons worshiping the Architect are duped. At higher levels (though they claim there are no higher levels) they are against the Blind Dump Kreator and worship the Intellect who freed man from his subjugation to nature.

It is not anti-nature, but it is anti-Yahweh, anti-Zeus, anti-God in any Abtahamic sense. They despise morality, they despise equality, they despise Christ.

If you can agree with these stipulations, continue; otherwise, I would quit now. Once you are in this spiritual stream, you will never get out and the consequences could be sure. Depending on who wins.

Ragnarok is coming. Do you support the Beast or The Immortal Gods (322).

Illuminists can be scary, they sacrifice each other regularly.

Do you want a new monarchy? Where will your position be in this neo-feudalism?

Course, there isn't really a choice, if you want to strive towards apotheosis, there's no way you can settle for absorption.

>>18989380
You can self initiate into various systems, but it doesn't necessarily speed anything up.

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>>18993270
Bahaha! Christianity and luciferianism are just two sides of the egyptian tradition, christ is the sun and lucifer is moon[spoiler]although this shit has been twisted and screwed so much that now lucifer seems to represent anything from mars to saturn[/spoiler]. Why should anyone pick between the sun and the moon? I like both, nights have a different vibe than noons, but I can enjoy all of it.
You are as lost as those luciferianists. That said, you are probably right and there will be a war between these teams, we are talking about humans after all, but I'm not going to have a pony in this race.

As for OP's question, if you really want to join a cult then the safest and realest bet IMHO are the gnostics. They usually arent very secretive or exclusive either, they are willing to teach prettymuch anyone willing to listen.
[spoiler]Know that there are many schools of gnostics, only take seriously the ones who dislike or at the very least ignore the demigod, unless you are down with a celestial dictatorship[/spoiler]

>>18993360
[citation missing]

>>18993360
Luciferianism is just the new name for the old religion of Baal worship which is Sun Worship. You really don't know what you're talking about do you?

Lucifer = White Sun (Sophia)
Satan = Black Sun (Lilith)

YHVH = Blind Idiot God
Jesus = Subjugation incarnate

Don't spread stupidity.
Actually, now I'm wondering if you are purposely spreading falsity.

>>18993381
>Lucifer = White Sun (Sophia)
>Satan = Black Sun (Lilith)
Show me in a Gnostic text where this is asserted.

>YHVH = Blind Idiot God
Only in a handful of Gnostic sects to they take their Demiurgic doctrine that far.

>wondering if you are purposely spreading falsity.
Frankly I think that's the vast majority of people on this damn board.

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>>18993366
Here is virgin ISIS nursing her baby HORUS, the original archetype that virgin mary and jesus were based on. I would shower you with pictures upon pictures showing the similarities between egyptian and christian mythology, but 4chan only allows one pathetic picture per post.You should read Blavatsky's isis unveiled and maybe just both the bible and egyptian myths, also knowing about Jungian archetypes helps with drawing these logical connections.

>>18992897
What is the true nature of reality that would make people flip their shit. I can handle it.

>>18993388
We're theosophists, we don't base ourselves in libraries.

Course this is all neo-gnostic, berry hush hush. Reading the KJV backwards and all that, you get me Ape.

Intrinsically, man was subjugated by the material unuverse (primitive mysteries). By intellect (Sophia) given by Lucifer (Plaroma) through Satan (initiator) by way of the Serpent (Lilith) we are given the path of Tubal Cain (he who turned the weapon into the plow).

Neolithic Revoltuion, Ape, man learning agriculture and subjugatinh animals. We went from warrior against nature into gods over it, sword into plow.

As for Satan/Saturn, it's an occult truism at this point, see any number of correspondence texts.

>>18993415
>we don't base ourselves in libraries
Lol.
K.

>Course this is all neo-gnostic
Oh, Martinist or Ecclesia Gnostica?

>>18993381
Jesus is the new wave of baal worship, and luciferianism is the counter-movement to that. Baal worship was sun worship, just like egyptian HORUS was.

YHWH is actually something completely different, there is a hermetic code in the bible that few know. It's like the jews understood what Hermes was talking about, but for some reason hid the knowledge really deep, maybe they were afraid they would be killed as witches? After all they were tribal people constantly on the move, and city people were already kinda wary of them.

>>18989233
Read The Emerald Tablets, Kybalion, Corpus Hermeticum and The Asclepius. Soak everything in about Platonism, Hermeticism, and Western (Hermetic) Quaballah you can. Also ground this out with Alchemy, Tarot, and Astrology tying into Hermetic Quaballah.

Authors to look for may include but are not limited to Manly P. Hall, Joseph Cambell, Carl Gustav Jung, Dion Fortune, Eliphas Levi, Aleister Crowley (good for strong reference but branch out), Israel Regardie, Robert Anton Wilson.

>>18993424
Read up on intellectual materialism, I though you knew better than to base yourself on these things.

Do you deny the Spiritual realities, are you just an academic?

Why the hostility?

>>18993415
The apple wasn't intellect, it was ego. Getting rid of ego is the way back to paradise(gnosis) back to God, away from Satan. If you somehow took it as lucifer worship, then thats completely on you.

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>>18989233
Start watching esoteric audiobooks on youtube. Free and effective

>>18993446
>intellectual materialism
Intellectual materialism? As in Popper, et al.? Because all I'm pulling up is a pile of squabbling about the long slain mind/body dualism.

Oh look, an Ajan "I got kicked out of the Sangha" Brahm video. He even talks about Sam Harris. Cute.

>Do you deny the Spiritual realities
??? Literally what? Why would I?

>Why the hostility
I dunno, all the ahistorical swill being pushed off as legitimate initiatory tradition?

>>18993429
I deny that Jesus is Sun Worship, Jesus is subjugation to the material, YHVH.

I think we're having two very different reactions to the subject matter.

>>18993469
You just seem to be basing all your thought on dusty old books and not real gnostic experience, it's very disheartening.

And no, intellectual materialism in the Theosophist sense, you are tied up in basing spiritual reality on hermetic or ancient texts as opposed to interaction with said spiritual currents.

What is it with you freaks shitting up this thread, fuck off

>>18993469
Spiritual traditions walk a very thin line between historical accuracy and pure mythology, you shouldn't dismiss things based on academic parameters.

>>18993482
>You just seem to be basing all your thought on dusty old books
I explain the mechanics of my practice and experiences fairly regularly but I guess all those mean nothing because I like to read.

>you are tied up in basing spiritual reality on hermetic or ancient texts as opposed to interaction with said spiritual currents
I love how you assume intimate knowledge of my functional daily practice.

>>18993458
It's not just me, but Jesus sucks so whatever.

>>18993468
>watching audio
This will definitely be worthy of an initiation at most societies.

>>18993489
Just calls em like I sees em.
Every statement is attacked by you with asking for Hermetic sources or name dropping, this smacks of spiritual bankruptcy and armchair Occultism.

>>18993489
>>18993494
*Pulls up chair and grabs popcorn bowl*

>>18993494
You sound like you are just making shit up as you go, like most /fringe/ armchair "gnostics." You don't just get to ignore centuries of established praxes, text, tradition, etc. and slap a buzzword type name on it.

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>>18993494
How many thousand times have YOU evoked Archons using more or less traditional methods?

How often do YOU engage in Gnostic Mass?

Ever made an incantation bowl to catch Lilith?

What's your contemplation method for contacting Barbelo?

OP here.

Seems like ego is really cluttering up the thread.

Also seems like the general consensus is that I should just stick to the reading lists.

>>18993499
Sure I can and do. Spiritual experience is more important than crossreferencing old texts. I use the language of these traditions to explain my personal experiences, that's occult science. Always has been.

>>18993509
My man, I'm in contact with the higher ups constantly, traditional magic and not.

Except, Wotan, that spiritual current is harsh and nasty.

In any case it's not a numbers game, how many times do you think Blake did these things?

>>18993521
>Except, Wotan, that spiritual current is harsh and nasty.
This is probably the first time I've agreed with an assertion you've made.

>Blake
You'll pardon me if I don't think Blake was a particularly reliable practitioner. Not to say he's not neat. Same with Yeats.

But I'm gonna judo this back around on ya and assert that if anything REEKS of armchair occultism it's Blake and Yeats.

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>>18993475
How literally do you take the jesus myth? Do you believe there was literally biblical jesus with the miracles and all, or that it is based on a hippie and the story got bloated? If you think the latter, then how come it is so hard to believe that the qualities of the sun-god/hero archetype(jester in the tarot cards) was injected in that character? It is too obvious to even debate against, unless you take bible literally, which case you have restricted your views and have decided not to look for truth.

>During the Roman Empire, a festival of the birth of the Unconquered Sun (or Dies Natalis Solis Invicti) was celebrated on the winter solstice—the "rebirth" of the sun—which occurred on December 25 of the Julian calendar. In late antiquity, the theological centrality of the sun in some Imperial religious systems suggest a form of a "solar monotheism". The religious commemorations on December 25 were replaced under Christian domination of the Empire with the birthday of Christ.

>>18993527
>what is Syncretism alex?

>>18993527
>Horus is Jesus
I just got a telegram from 1842 and they want Gerald Massey's speculations back.

>>18993525
Even Crowley (whatever your opinions on him) went years between workings, and he's the poster child for practical magic.

Blake's assertions about the Spiritual realities seems accurate in many regards and his affect on Romanticism and art in general gives me the impression he was very practical in his will, no matter how many banishings he never did.

Traditionalists and Theosophists are always gonna clash anyways.

>>18993538
That depends on what you mean by 'working' but I'm inclined to disagree

>>18993533
Oh god, dude, Archytypes are accepted by many occultists, no need to be a dick. You like Qabalistic correspondences no doubt, same difference. You are so scholarly, would you like a cake of light?

>>18993527
I take him as the Word of YHVH who teaches man to be weak and subject to material existence.

>>18993533
Well the idea that jesus existed is even older, so that is hardly an argument.

>>18993544
In which way?
He sometimes went years in between magics by his own account.
Unless you want to broaden the definition of magic, and then everyone is doing it alk the time.

>>18993548
A correspondence in qabalah does not mean the things that correspond are the same

>>18993550
It was a quip or witticism, not an argument. that's a joke son.

>>18993548
>would you like a cake of light?
Yes.

>Archytypes are accepted by many occultists
The best ones accept them as what they are: Spirits, as Jung himself observed.

>>18993550
?

>>18993538
>went years between workings
Really the only functional gap we have is around the time he hung with Pessoa; otherwise I/we have the diaries from 1906 forward with earlier notebooks scattered around. You can clearly observe the quality and quantity of his Work yourself.

>>18993556
But they are the same, different maps of the same reality.

>>18993566
Yes, Archytypes are the Spiritual realities, symbols are the interpretation.

>>18993554
>He sometimes went years in between magics by his own account.
In terms of his adult life he only "gave up" magick in the years between like 1898/99 and 1906...or so he says...he attempted to found Lamp of Infinite Light while in Mexico. Did lots of HGA work.

He tried being a socialite in his early Paris years. He was broke; replenished his contact pool but adversely impacted the Work.

>>18993572
Sure, in the same way that calamus and galangal are the same, to give a well known example

>>18993548
>I take him as the Word of YHVH
Ok and YHVH you take as a literal creator demigod?

Do you know of the school of thought that says YHWH is actually a numeric for a specific frequency of sound, much like what OM represents in the oriental occult tradition?

>>18993580
It's just what I read inthe Kaczynski bio.
My point about Blake's visions affecting the realities of many still stands to his spiritual efficacy.

>>18993583
No I hadn't heard of it. Tell me about it.

Just to be clear, I love existence, it is suppressive however, intellect let's us rise over it.

>>18993583
Too many post-structuralists my man

>>18993583
>Do you know of the school of thought that says YHWH is actually a numeric for a specific frequency of sound, much like what OM represents in the oriental occult tradition?
Rosicrucianism via AMORC (not a particularly good lineage, imho).

>>18993582
I almost spit out my tea laughing.

Sex, it's what it was all about anyways.

>>18993270
>It is at the center of every true secret society
Nah.
>The Masons worshiping the Architect are duped.
That's a placeholder term. It represents ones individual belief. Usually Christianity.
>Do you want a new monarchy? Where will your position be in this neo-feudalism?
Monarchy doesn't automatically mean feudalism. Besides we have feudalism more so now.

>>18993034
Yes.

As above, so below. Bardon places a huge emphasis on understanding your own elemental makeup om physical, astral, mental levels.

Mastery of one layer leads to mastery in the next. The ultimate goal is spiritual development and one-ness with god hood. But to get there you need mastery of all elements on all planes (including inside).

External "magic" is a parlor trick that any master can perform. That's not the goal.

>>18993042
Hey I'm just saying what works for me. bardon is the most direct, practical western material I've ever come across.

But I'm not one for trappings, tradition, lineage, clubs, etc. just distill what works into a core set of universal practical applications.

Barron's material is wholistic, practical, and contains recurring elements I've seen in other traditions. For me, it stands on it's own.

But hey, ymmv

Read the Vedas,
The Bible...
Maybe some Homer and Greek Tragedy for shits and giggles

And anything you can find on meditation/eastern philosophy

>>18995216
>vedas

do you even upanishad bro

>>18993521
>"I don't think you have experience, you just read"
>"Here's all my experiences"
>"LOL THIS ISN'T ABOUT NUMBERS"

Absofuckinglutely adorable.

>>18989884
Yeah definitely this, some secret societies are Satanic, but not all of them, these come from an era where you could be killed or ostricized for being part of them or knowing what they know, such days do not really exist anymore, a lot of occult knowledge is open to everyone, it is also on the information highway that is the Internet.

>>18991924
Jesus never existed as a human or godman on this Earth

>>18993527
The Jesus story is just the Jewish version of a Mystery cult text

>>19000331
You truly think Jesus, the person--not the deity, is less real than Moses or Mohammed? Based on what?

>>19002317
Moses is a bad example, especially since scholars who aren't Apologists agree he never existed. Also, it's likely Jesus started as a deity that was worshiped as celestial being first since most of the texts that seemingly first mention him don't give us a historical background so it's likely he was crucified in the lower heavens since you'd have to import the Gospels into the text. Since Jesus started as a High Christology being, it's likely he didn't exist in history especially when most of the texts that don't put Jesus in a historical context outweigh the ones that do and they seem to have actually come out before the Gospels, it's most likely he wasn't ever in history in the first place. Not to mention since it was a High Christology being and the Jews didn't believe god could be a man, it's most likely Jesus started as a celestial being.

>>19002346
so if i'm understanding correctly the basis of your argument is lack of an understanding of pre ~33 yro Jesus?

also, what about Hermes / Thoth as a counterexample

>>19002352
What are you talking about? What about Hermes? You mean the dude who supposedly started Hermeticism? He's not real, senpai, he never was. Also what do you mean lack of understanding? Your lack of understanding of the texts, extrabiblical and otherwise is the problem, not mine.

>>18993270
I've read the conspiracy theorists too. In my opinion, the Western mystery tradition is interesting but also full of crap. You can read almost anything into it, and the keys to it have been lost. Etymology, mythology, poetic tradition and philosophy meld into a mishmash so that the seeker thinks he's becoming enlightened and learning many new things when really it's just that all these strange fantastic names and connections are triggering the dopamine receptors in his brain. For instance, see this >>18993381>>18993393
>>18993429 >>18993527 practically half the posts in this thread


You can also say that Baal is Lucifer is Moloch is Osiris is Orpheus is Adonis is the Sun-God is Yaldabaoth is Yahweh is Jesus is Horus etc.

Kabbalism and Hermeticism and Tarot and Gnosticism and Theosophy etc. and the Western occult tradition in general is a mess. The more you read into it, the more you'll get a lot of useless non-information with some nuggets of gold in between. I feel cool enough to say this because I myself wasted a lot of time reading into it.

This may sound pretentious, but look into science or Eastern mysticism. Science because the complexities of the human brain and body and of nature, and also of how the planets formed, and finally of how the universe formed and what matter and energy are at their deepest bits are themselves intimately related to religious questions. Eastern mysticism for your doses of nonlinear thinking and an apparently simpler although deeper mysticism that's less obsessed with incredibly arcane allusions and intertextuality.

Also Gurdjieff is cool.

>>19002540
>The more you read into it, the more you'll get a lot of useless non-information with some nuggets of gold in between. I feel cool enough to say this because I myself wasted a lot of time reading into it.

I very much agree with this statement. I think there's a few worthwhile people to read, Gurdjieff being one of them.

I would say if you want western stuff to look into earlier time periods, even old philosophers like Plotinus. Marcus Aurelius' writings and others.

Manly P Hall is pretty good western as well. He comments on a lot of the eastern teachings.

>>18992897
You are confusing gnostic with new age. I mean they are similar but not really. Either way, you are getting confused.