Occultism & Magick: Library Update 52

Considering that four out of four men were in three or four secret societies during the 19th century, what was the impact of that and would you say that we are much poorer without it today?

>>18962417
Most of the serious orgs of that time period are still around in some incarnation or another.

People just need to use 'em.

Bump for books.

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Bump.

>>>/x/

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When people say that the Golden Dawn, AA and OTO are masonic off shoots what exactly does that mean?

Masons constantly deny any affiliation with the occult but most organisations claim some masonic origin

>>18962416
What is this? An image for ants!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z43CU4a_eII

>>18962422
They either hold charters from/as Masonic Lodges or have some sort of vaguely rosicrucian practice and belief. Mostly the former.

Praying to the Ibis headed God of Reason that this thread is less of an autistic shitfest than the one on /x/

also bump

>>18962425
A lot of butthurt and autissimo going on, for sure. Give us this day our daily knowledge, and banish thee from our realm the spirit of Autissimo Maximus, so that every spirit of the firmament and of the ether, in dry land and in the water, of whirling air and rushing fire, and every spell and scourge of god may be obedient unto us...and that no more butthurt may enter! So mote it be!

>>18962416
Anything interesting or worthwhile in the the Order of the Solar Temple or are they just another masonic rip off?

>>18962422
>what exactly does that mean?

That these groups literally copy Masonic ritual and structures and rebrand them as their own

>>18962422
It's really a matter of history.
A.'.A.'. is essentially nonmasonic.
Golden Dawn splintered from SRIA as a comasonic org.
OTO is an outgrowth and revision of Memphis & Mizraim.

>>18962427
I don't really know much about those cats.

>>18962428
Since I offer Masonic ritual scripts alongside those of other orgs, you can substantiate this claim, yes?

AYY LMAO

Praise Jesus

>>18962429
> you can substantiate this claim, yes?

Of course looking at your material for the 1o in OTO

The initial and closing process prior to that is very similar to the tiling process in a Masonic lodge

They then hoodwink the candidate (using the same wording as the masons)

Then they both start with the conversation at the door with the "whom have you there"
And have a similar spiel poor fellow ect

after that they point a dagger to the candidates throat as the Masons do to the heart and eventually use the same noose.

They go though a simmilar list of commitments to which the candidate replies "I am"

-They use a striped down version of the word or token part of a masonic initiation - using the exact words in the exchange "give that word" "I was taught to be cautious" ect but only do the lettering rather than the halfing

Whilst not wholly plagiarized it borrows very very heavily

>>18962431
>Whilst not wholly plagiarized it borrows very very heavily
Ok, that's 1st.
Now tell me about 0 through 11.

Any of you guys make your own novel rituals or magical practices?

Completely original I mean, not just derivative

>>18962432
>Ok, that's 1st.

Is there a particular reasoning they copied the first ?

>>18962434
Well, let's consider the fact that even the person who I'm replying to admits it's not wholly plagiarized.

Then let's consider what I'd mentioned earlier: OTO is a revision of the Memphis & Mizraim traditions from a German Oriental outfit or possibly some irregular lodge, the history isn't clear.

The German 1st IS more or less a copy of Freemasonic Entered Apprentice with some tinkering. Early in the OTO's history, it's express purpose was "making Freemasons" which meant they essentially ported Blue Lodge degrees early on and then elaborated and revised thereon.

Crowley decided he was going to revise the whole damn thing to put it in line with Thelemic ideals and concepts.

>>18962433
What's the litmus for originality?
I'm building some eclipse rites from scratch using clues in Totemic Invokation of the Shadow Selves and some of Schulke and Chumbley's books (ZHA/Baetyla)

>>18962433
True originality is harder than you think. Which is why "master of the Temple" is it's own grade

>>18962416
Nice. Thanks Ape!

>>18962436
There's also this.
There's also the question of whether the Freemasonic model is actually worth a fuck when it comes to mystical systems.

Hence how redacted OTO initiations are, and why the A.'.A.'. doesn't really use much of the Freemasonic system(s) [read: One of the A.'.A.'. initiations is very original, and the other
Egyptian derived but nonmasonic].

>>18962437
Pleasure as always.

Back up top.

Have a bump /x/ refugees

>>18962440
thank you for welcoming us to your supple land

>>18962440
I'm not exactly a refugee; I've been posting on /his/ since very shortly after inception.

>>18962442
no one cares about your Chan cred, Ape-eroo

>>18962443
>cred
Sorry if I [triggered] you while trying to add context to someone's reply.
We (I) am not here as a 'refugee'.
I'm not here because /x/ sucks (even though it does).
I'm not here because we've been banned.

I'm here because the texts I add to the library are /his/ topical, regardless of what certain detractors may imply.

>>18962443
Look magic is a part of human culture and from what I understand this board is History and Humanities discusses things relating to that so you can have a hissy fit all you like but this technically can belong here although I much prefer it to stay on x. Not because I'm a his board user but because it makes x a little more better than it is with its presence.

>>18962445
>Not because I'm a his board user but because it makes x a little more better than it is with its presence.
Really for the last almost, like, what, a year? It's made /his/ better too compared to:
>prove me wrong
>*blocks path*
>did nothing wrong
>WE WUZ
>were [nonwhite group] white?
>MUH POLITICAL SYSTEMS
>MUH JEEBUZ SHITPOSTING
>MUH CLASSICAL ART MEMES FROM FB

>>18962446
I just meant I prefer reading this thread on X. I know you post on lit as well and from my experience the threads on x seem better to me, that is to say more/better discussions but I mostly find these threads through x and not as often on the other boards.

>>18962447
I stopped /lit/ posting because there are some people with MASSIVE cases of Ascended Master Syndrome out there; people from the Gunther lineage who flip their shit if you're not keeping a public blog with your entire ritual records.

>>18962448
from what ive seen of lit, yeah, I get that. Just a bunch of contrarians and hipsters, you have to have read the 'right' books which change all the time, flavour of the month and meme book galore.
Lit is one of the worst, elitist boards on this site. They don't deserve a threadlike this.
It's their loss.

>>18962449
The idea that there is a 'correct' interpretation of texts and symbolism therein that comes from actual research and historiography makes it hard to get an English degree.

>>18962450
huh?

>>18962448
"Every man and every woman is an Ascended Master."

Thanks for the great rec. of Silene Capensis. I didn't realize the shit has effects in waking state as well. Isn't it sometimes used for necromancy?

>>18962451
He's shitting on /lit/fags who read some Evola and like a quarter of the public Crowley corpus and think they've got it ALL FIGURED.

>>18962452
Yes. IIRC, could be wrong.

>>18962453
>He's shitting on /lit/fags who read some Evola and like a quarter of the public Crowley corpus and think they've got it ALL FIGURED.
Oh right thanks for explaining all I could see were the words and the meaning wasn't sinking in.

>>18962448
>public blog w/ entire ritual records

Because it's not like this could make someone, I dunno, susceptible or anything, right?

>>18962455
?
I'm not entirely sure I follow.

Like, I got no issue if you're running an entry level A.'.A.'. blog. Go to town.

But on the other hand don't pretend you're the only person doing Work just because you post some notes on the LBRP.

(Funny enough, this guy's handle on the system was poor enough to not know the grade at which you may take students and the grade at which there's no going back, metaphysically speaking).

>>18962454
I have a sinus infection so some meaning may have been lost.

Pretty much that. They treat it like a novel and make up their own meaning for everything and don't actually put any of it into practice anyway. It's really bad when they talk about Buddhism because it really highlights that no one there has read a primary source or referenced it with a commentary.

>>18962457
Sad thing is that describes like 4/5ths of Buddhist discussion on /his/ too.

Everyone has an opinion but nobody wants to crack open the Tripitaka.

>>18962456
I just don't think posting your entire ritual notes, complete with when/where/how/why/who/what, &c.
is an entirely good idea, generally speaking,

>>18962459
But I mean, yeah if someone's just LBRPing and LRHing it up, I guess very little harm can be done by publishing that info in real time. Other things... not so much, I would think.

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>>18962458
Autistics tend to have a stigma against the kind of drugs you need to power through vedic philosophy and penomonology. 40 pages into this and I need a nap.

>>18962459
>>18962460
I'd tend to agree.

>>18962461
Man I found the short discourses to be more "trouble" than Abhidhamma; which is really just a phenomenology of perception with Indic terminology.

>>18962462
The short discourses are full of literal propaganda to convert plebs. My favorite is when anons quote the tale of gotama converting the city of yogis and think it means "see for yourself if the dhamma is true" and not "these pious fucks fell for it and so should you rajeesh".

>>18962463
They're also full of cute and interesting but hard to contextualize vignettes showing the underlying mechanics of Siddhartha's mode of thought outside the dry and systemic framework of Abhidhamma.

I dig the "I want some water" bit.

Bump
~t. Stoner Philospher

>>18962464
I haven't been through those in a long time. The last thing I read was all the entertaining stories about why monks have a rule for absolutely everything.

>>18962464
Ape, do you believe David Griffin's alleged attainment to be what it is claimed to be? I know 'above the abyss' and all that stuff, but he just doesn't strike me as quite the enlightened individual as even the Neophyte might expect from one of so exalted a grade

>>18962467
Are you fucking kidding me?
Dave Griffin couldn't Attain his way out of a wet paper nutsack.

He's the Imperator of absolutely nothing, and I doubt he's brushed his fingers across Tifaret let alone completed his Exemption.

>>18962468
I mean, didn't mean to [trigger] you there. I know fuckall about the guy, other than seeing him shitting everywhere, constantly, but apparently he has a lot of people sucking his cock and thinking he knows what he's talking about. Who decides these things?

>>18962470
I dunno the actual lineage holders like Pat Zel and Stella Matutina.

https://youtu.be/iET8HtUwdtY

>>18962422
>Masons constantly deny any affiliation with the occult but most organisations claim some masonic origin

Not true

>When people say that the Golden Dawn, AA and OTO are masonic off shoots what exactly does that mean?

They conform to the same philosophy and beliefs that masons do for the most part

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>>18962474
>tfw milking bliss state as much as I can

How fucked am I?

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>>18962477
The pendulum swings both ways.

>>18962478
There is no pendulum.
There is only Awakened Ground.

>>18962458
Wisdom pubs does make that more difficult than it ought to be

>>18962462
The short discourses are more fun to listen to then to read if you can find some audio files. Granted, not ideal for deep analysis

>>18962477
There are real good uses for bliss, just don't cling, there're no encore's

Not that I know anything

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Why is everyone talking about this being a /his/ thread up top, when I'm clearly reading it on /x/?

>>18962837
It got moved by the mod on /his/ to here.

>>18962842
Got it.

what do you guys do every day? besides the normie life whats like *your practice*. i feel that to get any of this stuff you have to have some first hand experience.

Although you can just metal masturbate on stuff like >>18962474, larp on x about it, and call it a day...

but as a noob how do you even start reading this stuff and know what is bs and whats an accurate description of the experience. I suppose you can consider it all *glimses of teh truth* and read and try to make sense of it, but isn't this fcking crazy? How do you rely on an interpretation more than another when even your understanding of your own experiences is uncertain ffs. are you supposed to start like a monkey with the complete idiots guide to meditation and thelema or whatnot then dive head first in kabbalah and rely on your intuition or your *higher guardian alien self* to guide you?

>>18963557
>How do you rely on an interpretation more than another
Following someones instructions is an act of faith, which is fine as long as your aware of that. In the buddhist system, faith is said to be balanced by wisdom, which you can grow by investing your faith in meditation.

>when even your understanding of your own experiences is uncertain ffs.
This is sort of the heart of it. No one can tell you, mysticism is all about experiences beyond words. Look at your thoughts and study the relation between confusion and clarity in your own mind.

Dont worry too much about all the esoteric commentary in books and on /x/ in the beginning. If you want to do all this symbolic ritual magic stuff you can but you have to lay a foundation of meditation for all that anyway, so dont get ahead of yourself.

Hope this helps

did any of you ever asked to a trustworthy spirit if there is any afterlife and such for man? what did it said?

>>18962416
>mfw I was banned because of a violation of rule 1.
>warning says all topics must be devoted to archaeology, history, anthropology, humanities, etc.
>thread contains more anthropology and archaeology than the rest of the board combined
>this thread has not been banned there in over a year
wtf

>>18963557
>you can just metal masturbate on stuff like >>18962474, larp on x about it,
Could you maybe explain to me why the linked video about contemplative Jewish nondual mysticism is "metal [sic] masturbation" and/or larp?

>>18962842
Which is clearly fucking bullshit.

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>>18963731
>Which is clearly fucking bullshit.
>WE WUZ
Stays.
>PROVE ME WRONG
Stays.
>FUCKING SHITSKINS
Stays.
>FUCKING FEDORA
Stays.
>ARE DRAVIDIANS WHITE
Stays.
>*BLOCKS YOUR PATH*
Stays.
>FROGPOSTING
Stays.
>LEWD HISTORY
Stays.
>ILLUMINATI FREEMASONS
Stays.
>/HIS/ WAIFU THREAD
Stays.
>HITLER WAS RIGHT
Stays.
>VIDYA
Stays.
>INDIGENOUS MONGRELS
Stays.

>Post a thread with a massive compilation of historical source texts, ethnography, archaeology, comparative religion, and practical mysticism.
BANNED.

>yes I'm mad

>>18963762
Bump[?

>>18962416
Lam and Aiwass, are they separate entities?

>>18964083
They're NOT the same.
This is pretty clear in the records.

>>18964083
Asking this again eh?

>>18964089

I read some confusing stuff a while back.

>>18964107

You know it.

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>>18964110

Sup you fucking LARP fags. What do you think of Fulcanelli?

>>18964125
What shit.

>>18964126
Good stuff.

>>18962837
Hey Palo...
The name of the baby killing spirit of the New Guinea mask is "Pamel".
Though you might wanna know.

>>18964125
The description of Aiwass is much more ideal than that of Lam imo.

>>18963731
ugh no thats not what i meant...

i was trying to say that even if you have a good explanation(that video) without the proper background/experience it's hard to really get it. i mean you can show me a genuine paragraph of quantum physics and a bogus one and i would know which one is which if I have no clue of mathematics

I was asking about how do you guys got some real experience with this stuff (i assumed you have some and arent just larping or speaking/theorizing about it without knowing smth more ("mental masturbation")) I mean you stay and meditate all day everyday or study or what...

>>18963637
yea thx, i think i got ahead of myself by reading stuff i don't know where exactly to place / got confused in those "esoteric notions"
seems like you cant go too far without getting the hang of meditation

>>18963686
Plebians can't into esotericism/occultism as anthropology

>>18962842
It's a shame too, because the /his/ discussions usually have a lot less autism then the ones we have here.

Bumping the library update.

>>18964149
People as this at least once every fourth thread, it seems
>how to archives

>>18964149
Liber Resh, Daily Lesser Invoking Rites, Daily Lesser Banishing Rites, Daily yoga, daily meditation, daily sex or sublimation of the sex 'drive,' daily reading of esoteric literature, add Rites a,b,c and x,y,z as needed

>>18963762
I thought you said you got permission to post these threads on /his/ last year? Maybe they changed mods or something

>>18962837
Who's shitty, homemade-ass necklace?

>>18965201
Who's uninformed, uncultured opinion?

Anyone in this thread have experience with witch craft? I'd like to start researching but finding a reliable has proved difficult, does any anon out there have informative in depth sites that concentrate on wiccan life, spells, and history?

>>18965215
There are at least four on here that do. I am not one of them.

>>18965215
"Wicca" probably isn't what you want.
Go through the Chumbley>Sabbatic Craft folder.

>>18965215

I'd suggest looking at Azoetia/Dragon Book of Essex

Bumping for the occult conversation to continue here. Other thread got nuked.

Anyone wanna talk about amulets and talismans?
Let's stop feeding the trolls, together.

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Bump

Guys maybe we can get whoever is deleting posts to play Blue Whale. It's very spooky and paranormal and very much /x/

I think the guy from the "-kinesis" threads that kept getting deleted is trying to exact autistic revenge. Anyone want to talk about The ritual of the Rose Cross?

>>18965429
Hey, I was last thread. Do you feel yourself becoming shrouded or more hidden after performing the ritual?

>>18965429
Mind giving a quick rundown on the Ritual of the Rose Cross? How do you apply it into your daily practice?

>>18965435
I have not done it yet, looking for your personal experience with it. Please note, If I do not respond, I have been B&

>>18965437
http://www.hermetics.org/Rose-Cross.html

I haven't done it yet but here is the script. Should be pretty easy to incorporate for one familiar with the banishing rites and such.

>>18965439
You should perform once you've studied it and acquired all the components. Report back and let us know how it went and what effects you felt.

>>18965479
Sure, sounds good. I'm gonna try to print it when I get the chance, As I don't have internet at home.

It looks like it FIRST this stable ground must be made to be able to communicate in a normal way.

And new boards like /HIS/ aren't necessarily a good idea. Because a new board can divide where this is not wanted.

>>18965518
Wat?

But how to? This really commutable stable ground? How it is now is totally disturbing. Should stop immediately.

I don't even know or I will ban-survive this second post. Or this thread.

>>18965525
Again, wat?

>>18965436
>>18965455
Even wanting to repeat something has to be associated with autism.....

I don't mean by this poster, but it is totally normal wanting to repeat something sometimes. If this is a reason for deletion and in the way it is noone can really say anything.

>>18965541
>criticizing another poster
>doesn't even English

>>18965545
>English
You don't English?

It says:
>I don't mean by this poster

You barbarian

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>>18963557
Hi newbie..
So, what does an Occultist do everyday?
Well, I get up.
I eat breakfast and take meds and get dressed and makeup.
Oh yeah - brush hair.
Go to work - go for a mile or 2 walk on lunch - back to work.
Then go home, lurk /x/, make shitty home-made ritual tools, play with my dogs, check in the closet to make sure no one has thrown Henre away.
Maybe eat some food in between those things.
Then, take more meds and go to bed.
Basically, just like everybody else (or at least some other people if not "everybody".)
It's just that in between those moments I'm noticing things like synchronicities, and weird little coincidences, connecting dots to notice correspondences that have never occurred to me before.
I just started by stealing books out of junior high library and sneaking them home to read and hiding them and hoping my family didn't find them.
(They did - a lot - and that SUCKED since I come from an End Times Fundamentalist Abrahamic family.)
You don't know what's real and what's fake unless - like a lot of things in life - you go out and try them for yourself.
So, that's what I did.
I learned about as many things as I could that interested me, and I tried as many things as I could based on means to acquire and opportunity and interest.
Really, being into Occultism or a weird out of the way religion is just like being into any mainstream religion or hobby.
You think about "god" and the universe and everything, and you live life just like anyone else.
It's actually sort of...boring at times.

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>>18964134
Yes, I did want to know!!!
I had stuck that in one of those dusty corners of my brain - behind the squeaky hamster wheel - and almost forgotten.

Now I have something new to read about.

can sigils help with mental illness?

>>18965603
Therapy and possibly therapeutic drugs can, with a higher success rate.

>>18965535
I don't mean to just shout out something.

But like this example:
>I don't mean by this poster, but it is totally normal wanting to repeat something sometimes. If this is a reason for deletion and in the way it is noone can really say anything.

1. it is strange that a whole mental illness actually plays a role
2. I don't mean: moderators are to blame for everything
3. I wouldn't be surprised if moderators and users think it is hard to figure the whole thing out
4. Saying: maybe there are real life scammers at work too. Immediately is under the suspicion of another mental illness. And of course, if this sort of level is too high to be able to mention this sort of thing by whatever. This is on itself alone a reason to be suspicious.

And other reasons why being suspicious should be a correct and free thing to do. Of course neither that can become this block on things. As if the frauds now took it from that angle. Because the previous thing did no longer work.

I say something short here that could be a whole conversation.

>>18965628
Are you foreign or schizophrenic? It's really hard to tell on /x/.

>>18965636
I'm going with both. They claimed they can English though so maybe just the latter.

>>18965636
I think you sound like a scam. And of course someone doing that wants to be successful. This sort of remark influences what others hold for truth that are basically neutral.

>>18965552
Ahem *some* of us, in addition to leading fairly mundane professional lives, have a fairly rigid ritual schedule.

>>18965654
>>/trash/
You have to go back.
I'm not even the anon you responded to.

>>18965651
Sorry, but I have never in my life. Though I have been looking at some things and been talking because a Whole mental illness can sometimes suddenly come up like this anywhere to anyone.

Don't ask me how because the whole subject of no mental illness has this difficulty.

And I can justly ask you to f* off with that

>>18965666
Maybe, if you do not indeed suffer extensive Dain Bramage, you can read through your posts and recognize why none of us know or care wtf you are on about, so politely go piss into any other post in the dumpster fire that is the front page of /x/

>>18965673
>f*
Well as long as (You) recognised my English here

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>>18965655
Yeah, see I don't schedule.
I work a lot on the fly and improve.
I observe every Tuesday for sure though, even if it's just to pause to say some words or phone some "thanks" home.
I do lots of burnt offering type stuff, and everytime I eat I give a food offering.
But, if it strikes me that something REALLY needs or wants to be done for whatever random reason that day, I'll scavenge for materials and get to work.
I've just worked it into my day to day fairly seamlessly I suppose.
I don't have to do a full blown ritual to show some love.
I mean - for crying out loud I chemically castrated myself (hormonal implants - not permanent - to be replaced every few years) to serve a god that normally refuses access to women because they menstruate.

>>18965686
Good night - IMPROVISE.
Typos.

>>18965686
I was just giving you a hard time
>chemically castrated
So have my sister and girlfriend, if that's your definition, to serve the higher purposes of endometriosis, and sex, respectively.

But I know not every tradition has daily invocations and meditations and whatnot. It all depends on the tradition, of course.

Anyone on here OTO? Heard from my local lodge the other day, interested to know what they are gonna ask when I call back. Thanks.

>>18965700
Daily practice is a fucking nightmare sometimes. I have a core set that I run at least 4 days a week, but anything more is as needed for the time being. Also fucking nothing gets done with a sinus infection like I have right now because things are already freaky enough.

>>18965719
IDK, I mean I pretty much maintained mine throughout opiate withdrawals, but to each their own. I am >>18965107 this guy

>>18965724
I should clarify I didn't mean that in a braggadocious manner, but rather to show that such discipline is possible, even for a relative newbie. Also, if you are not physically well enough, AP can do the trick. Not suited for all possibilities, though ,of course.

>>18965724
That's about what I do, but work in different yogas as needed and don't feel bad when I'd rather go for a run instead of sit on my ass. Banishing and some kind of yoga is daily, though right now the yoga is brief because breathing isn't really working out for me right now.

AP is horrifying when ill. All the underworld dreams are enough.

>>18965728
>throughout opiate withdrawals
>braggadocious
that's not how i read it. much respect.
what's that line about keeping a diary?
keep a practice and one day, it'll keep you..

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>>18965700
Pffft... bwahah.
No for real... tell your wives - tell your girlfriends.
Norplant is the way to go.
Goes in your arm - good for 3 years and you can place a new one immediately on removing the old one.
Also, useful if you practice a tradition that says menstruating women (or able to bear children, essentially) are not allowed to own, operate, or even be in the same room with Nganga Zarabanda.
(For real... he will attack them.)
So, the best way is to just nip that crap in the bud.
Besides, it's not necessary to the survival of our species for human women to have that frequent of a reproductive cycle.
We could stand to have a higher death rate/lower birth rate for a bit.

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>>18965552
>stealing books out of junior high library and sneaking them home to read and hiding them and hoping my family didn't find them.
been there, done that

>>18965738
Why does Nganga Zarabanda hold such disdain towards women or menstruating women?

>>18965709
I'm an OTO aspirant. How did it go?

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>>18965744
Haven't we all?

anyone have thoughts on J Cornelius? I'm thinking of trying out for the baseball team as it were and I wonder if there are any major drawbacks to him. I honestly like that he got kicked from OTO and his general irreverence for Breeze, and his attitude and sense of humor appeals to me as well. Thoughts, anyone?

>>18962468
Hahahaha this is the level of snark that keeps me coming to omg

>>18962461

The best collection of the Pali discourses is a volume titled "In the Buddha's Words," check it out.

>>18965826
Follow up question, is he full of it when it comes to his stories about Grady McMurtry

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>>18965746
It's a loooooong story.
Do you have time for an Ifa mythology bedtime story?

>>18965738
I'm ngl I kind of dig the repro cycle aspect of xx chromosone-hood. it seems convenient to cut it out entirely but the fact that I have such a diversity of experience each month with my levels of intuition and emotional rawness. Plus it's cool to lock in with a certain phase of the moon. Palo do you find that you still experience a "cycle" of sorts, even tho there's no menstruation? Or not at all

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>>18965942
I would prefer none at all, personally.
I get the occasional lower back pain or cramp that's reminiscent - but overall not any of the other physical symptoms.
Lack of intuition hasn't really bothered me, I think because I've never been hardcore into divination.
I like to think I'm more able with attempts at logical reasoning and deduction when it's called for and I actually apply myself.
But there's rarely anything challenging enough here, so no need to attempt at all.
Emotional rawness I have in spades - I could use a little less of that I think.

Sup /x/, I've been incredibly down recently and I am looking for something to fill my time and get me into magick. My only background with the occult is researching Goetic evocations, and as I understand those should only be preformed as a "last resort" to your problems. Can anyone here recommend some basic magick workings or rituals that I can do to help me get out of this funk?

also sorry if that sounded like a blog post,

>>18966034
I'm out.
Going to go read out of the Shamanism folder.

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>>18966050

You should read Regardie's One Year Manual.

>>18965904
Yes I do!

>>18966055
But I'll wait until you come back

>>18966055
aww I was looking forward to an ifa bedtime story

Can magick either help me find what someone feels about me in their heart, even from far away? Or help them change their poor opinion of me without direct contact?

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Ape, why do you have such a thing about the OTO when you're not a member? It seems like every thread quickly descends into very detailed conversations about it. What gives?

>>18966654
so?

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>>18967010
I think he's an ex-OTO member and disappointed in it's current state of affairs.

>>18966912
>Can magick either help me find what someone feels about me in their heart, even from far away?
Use your intuition for this or divination.

>help them change their poor opinion of me without direct contact?
Easiest way is improve yourself through mundane means but glamour magic and Goetic spirits can help.

For information of the Goetia, check the MEGA link folders
>Grimoires
>Solomon
>Lemegeton

>>18967390
A coincidence*

>>18967331
Divination is one of the many practices in magic and in the occult. It only seems fitting that discussions about it, take place here, in /omg/. Readings, I feel, don't really work well in a 4chan format. That's why chat servers were fundamentally better. There was a lot more back and forth - you could get more feedback as a diviner and handles/login names took away samefagging.

>>18962448
Thanks for this update. Youre not the only one who's annoyed by public ritual bloggers. Some are helpful, most are tmi with motions

>>18967028
He *is* O.T.O. he is just no longer affiliated with a local body. Which is quite a bit different from being 'ex' OTO.

>>18966050
You can check out "The Middle Pillar" by Israel Regardie, "Magick: in Theory and Practice" by Aleister Crowley
Also Bhagavad Gita is rather inspiring if you are looking for philosophical writings.

>>18965826
>anyone have thoughts on J Cornelius?

Literally stolen goods.

Hey, anyone wanna talk about the Undines and why the hell they seem so hard for me to evoke?

Anyone interested in discussing assault sorcery? I haz questions.

Anyone here that can discuss samadhi?

>>18962416
Anybody have the rundown on astral lodges?

>>18967792

What about it?

>>18968007
What is your experience/what does it feel like?

>>18968062
I mean, I'm mainly trying to keep the thread alive, but I am truly interested in your experience. Some anon posted a thread a while back claiming they had only been practicing for two years, had not yet mastered samadhi, yet was going to attempt mahasamadhi...I was like,
Wat?

>>18967558
Well in which case he's broken his oaths by revealing secrets in the rituals.

>>18968077
I don't think he has 'revealed' much that hasn't already been published somewhere. Even if he did,
>implying that's not the point

>>18968081
Just for clarification, can you point me to an O.T.O. secret he revealed that he was privy to but had not yet been published?

>>18967571
>Literally stolen goods.
Care to elaborate Anon? I'm interested.

>>18968097
All of the Yorke Microfilms.

>>18968077
And?
They're not "secrets", as they've been in public circulation since the days of Francis X. King.

I *try* not to talk TOO much about the ritual contents, and leave it to seekers to decide if they wanna ruin the rites for themselves.

Besides, the only "secrets" you attain to in the OTO are those you apprehend yourself and tell nobody, otherwise, it's not a "secret", either within the Order or in theoretical principle.

>>18968255
tbqh famalam, unless your reply is on topic, I'm probably not gonna reply back, except now, to tell people I'm not gonna reply to anything other than thread-topical posts.

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>>18967563
Should you really read Magick in Theory and Practice without first reading Mysticism, then Magick?

>>18967028
I love these Air Force patches. So cool!

>>18968264
The first two books are sorta shitty.
Magick has relevant bits for Initiates but that's about the long and short of it.

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>>18968290
>mfw I left out my ritual record at the museum archive because you were writing down the name of a baby murdering mask spirit and one of the Christofascists in the administration department picked it up for "safekeeping" and now I'm wondering if they've flipped through it in any capacity.

>>18968062
>>18968067

Not much you can say about it. There was some time loss, or rather the timeline was a bit jumbled. The after glow lasted about three months or so.

>>18968112

Ask Ape. Something about a trunk that didn't belong to him.

He and his minions took down Kali Lodge and tried to take Thelema.

>>18968264
>Should you really read Magick in Theory and Practice without first reading Mysticism, then Magick?

Won't hurt.

>>18968318
>He and his minions took down Kali Lodge and tried to take Thelema.
Literal fucking slander.
I'm nowhere remotely near Kali or Thelema Lodges.

>>18968318
>>18968327
Fuck, pardon, thought you were talking about *ME* for a second.

OBVIOUSLY you were referring to Jerry C.

Misread the reply line.

Mea maxima culpa.

>>18968333
>333
lel

>>18968327
>>18968318
>>18968112
IIRC he's got Ebony Anpu's effects, w/r/t the black trunk, but I'm sorta fried after today, obviously.

>>18968333
>Fuck, pardon, thought you were talking about *ME* for a second.

>333

Heh.

>>18968327
Aren't they talking about J Cornelius in this context?

>>18968353
see
>>18968336

>>18968358
Yup. I should start refreshing often.

>>18968358
>>18968353
More to the topic of the man himself, I like a fair chunk of his writing but he's fucked with the system too much and tries to be the "heir" of Grady when the actual heirs of Grady were derascinated, demoted, kicked out, or otherwise mitigated.

>>18968318
Did you achieve it thru yogic discipline, drugs, or both?

>>18968368
>>18968362
That doesn't even cover the incredible tenuousness of his lineal claims w/r/t A.'.A.'. (See: Grady's questionable standing in that org) - that said he was instrumental as the canary in the coal mine for Bill Breeze's fuckedupedness as he was the revolutionary that got the boot which put Breeze at odds with Seckler over the claims of Gunther's A.'.A.'. being the only legal A.'.A.'.

>>18968373
It's incredibly difficult to get past Dhyana on drugs. Even most (read: not all) claims of 'ego death' on drugs are low on the yogic scale.

>>18968380
Isn't Gunther some kinda asshat? What do you think about Soror Estai's line?

>>18968384
>Isn't Gunther some kinda asshat
>Some Kinda
I mean, have you ever even heard Wasserman give a lecture? Have you sat before the feet of the World Teacher to learn the Path of Infinite Return? You read Initiation in the Aeon of the Child, which has nothing to do with Thelemic initiation and is all Christological symbolism? Have you read The Angel and the Abyss, which is about neither the Angel, nor the Abyss?

The man's a Christfag wrapped in unicursal hexagram. Tennessee Jed got kicked out of Motta's A.'.A.'. for plotting to kill Claudia Canuto de Menezes. Says so right in the front of Equinox 5:4.

He hasn't advanced past fucking BUDGE AND MASSEY and is writing commentary for all modern iterations of Coming Forth by Day.

>Estai
Clarify: Do you mean the unaffiliated splinters or Shoemaker via Seckler or Eschelman via Seckler?

>>18968409
Ok, total asshat and wannabe, cuckolded by a cult of death.

>Shoemaker via Seckler or Eschelman via Seckler

These

>>18968303
>The Christofascist who took my ritual records for "safekeeping" now is saying she can't return it until Monday and is giving me shit for asking for it today even though SHE'S THE ONE WHO FUCKING PICKED IT UP AND PUT IT IN HER BAG.

>>18968419
I'd, um, trust Eschelman before Shoemaker, tbqh. Both leave a bad taste in my mouth. Both advocate the psychological model. Eschelman's syllabus is, however, more logically consistent.

>>18968431
Wow dude threaten to rain brimstone on her dumb ass. If that doesn't work, tell her how fucked up it is and call the cops for theft, nigga

Oh?
>psych model
>for plebs

>>18968440
I cannot into Shoemaker's line because the sheet they give out for the Student grade states:
>We make no claims about the validity of other lineages of the A.'.A.'.
And then two paragraphs later it says:
>The Motta Equinoxes don't count because invalid lineage.

I really don't care what your opinion is one way or the other on Motta, but if you can't keep your fucking train of thought on logical tracks for more than 500 words, you're not gonna teach anyone jack shit.

>>18968458
Yeah that's pretty dumb. Do you think you're gonna be able to get your scripts back?

>>18968476
I dunno I'm sorta seeing red about it.

Finals start next week.

Half of our classes were called early due to students electing to take their finals this week instead of next.

Guess it's all gonna depend on if she reads my reminder emails I'll send out over the weekend.

>>18968486
That's some shit, man. What do you think about Temple of Thelema?

>>18968491
Depends on the jurisdiction.
Eschelman's or Shoemaker's?

I sorta think it's a rip-off but wouldn't mind seeing the rituals to verify this thought before I say it too assertively.

>>18968496
This is where I found them:

http://www.thelema.org/temple_of_thelema/init_magk_myst.html

>>18968431
If by psych model you mean something like pop-science materialism, this isn't consistent with what I've heard from their long-time students. They both believe in a supernatural and eshelman especially believes he is quite talented at performing supernatural feats (it's hard to say what I mean by this exactly but at least phenomena that mainstream science discourse would agree is impossible)

Do you have a source on the psych model thing?

>>18968551
Psych model implies the spirits are 'archetypes that are just in your head'

>>18968551
you can literally google "psychological model of magic" and all will be explained.

>>18968496
Ape, I've been having...well, I would argue prophetic...dreams the past couple nights due to Silene Capensis... Is there anything I can do, ritually speaking, to prevent these things from coming to pass. As far as I can tell it was two separate parts of the same vision/dream. I plan on doing everything I can physically and decision-wise, but I'm wondering if there is more I can do? Or if I should just let it be? Thanks

Ape (or anyone); I'd like your thoughts if any on the Gallery of Magick books. I got a few of them via amazon/kindle and I've had solid results. Wondering if anyone else has read them/tried out the magical systems.

>>18968560
Yes, they don't believe that

>>18968577
>I've had solid results
If it's working for you, anyone elses opinion is irrelevant.

>>18968577
Their website looks like an infomercial developed by a Neophyte, in my opinion.

Which books in particular? Words of Power seems like a bunch of bullshit to me.

>>18968625
oops meant to reply to this
>>18968577

So is one supposed to use the dagger for the pentagram rites and wand for hexagram rites, etc? Or what? I recently came across something saying usually the wand is used in elemental banishing/invoking?

>>18968625
Chaos Magick; Magical Angels (both); 72 Sigils of Power.

>>18968595
Very fair point

Has anyone here had success with Jugorum or ThIShARB? Just commenced Jugorum, myself. Am I supposed to consider typing a certain word I selected to be the same as saying it allowed?

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Ooh, sexy.

Has anyone gotten far enough down the path to understand that Crowley, as the beast, saying "Love is the law, love under will" is much more foreboding than it seems?

Not a safe thing to share with the profane, but I know a few people who know their stuff are usually around.

>>18968691
I mean, That should be sourced to Aiwaz, really. And I think, no. There is an uninitiated understanding, then a progressively initiated understanding. What do you mean?

Bump in the name of academia

Does anyone know who the frater with the fucked/sliced up arms is, that is typically pictured in online versions of Jugorum?

>>18968691
Well for starters, "love" really refers to the occult formula of AGAPE. Or am I not supposed to talk about that? Might be a bit spoiler-y.

>>18968721
I think that's common knowledge...

>>18968725
Oh, okay.

It's just the commentary makes a big deal about not discussing the contents of The Law, and I wanna be respectful to that.

>>18968670
Dirge really did a good job with it.

>>18968691
There are as many interpretations as there are Thelemites.

>>18968665
Yes, with both.

Sorta depends; Jugorum is about Discipline, not Silence. I'd err on the side of saying that's cheating.

Even then, you should be able to circumvent it. For example, you can get around "I" by going military and saying something like "This initiate" or "This Thelemite".

>>18968644
Wand generally.
Dagger if you're working on the mental plane.

>>18968577
Never looked.

>>18968575
Yes, but depends on the vision.
When in doubt, /sum/ pastebin is up top.

>>18968551
From Eshelman's "Magical and Mystical System of the A.'.A.'.":
>Each Path represents a transition of consciousness
Bolded.

Intentional deemphasis placed on the MWT comment in favor of older interpretations via expansive commentary on the latter under the guise of "balance" and "do what works" in the face of late and emphatic comments to the contrary in the Adept section.

>>18968774
Thanks...so what physical use is the dagger-not the elemental air dagger, but the standard dagger?

>>18968774
The word is "and" a.t.m. I'm beginning to get perverse pleasure from the cutting. What do?

>>18968720
Victor Neuburg

>>18968751
The Tunis Comment was not received with L, and is therefore not a Class A directive.

Don't get cucked by Angel Lorenz's fascist Book of the Law policy.

>>18968720
I THINK that's Norman Mudd, that or Raoul Loveday.

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>>18968785
>but the standard dagger?
To, um, cut shit.

>>18968800
>also
>furthermore
>moreover
>in conjunction with
Also switch to a rubber band.

>>18968801
For real, that's Vic? AC was pretty quick to call him out by name when he was a fuckup (like the time on the boat Crowley did Vic's yoga schedule for him).

Vic had a mole that's not on the cut-dude's wrist.

>>18968701
Aiwaz, the beast, almost more appropriate to attribute it my way. All I need to do is slip in Choronzon and Crowley, and we can have a properly four headed beast.

Also, yes, understanding is constantly evolving. Initiated and uninitiated is a rough distinction. This involves the HGA and crossing the Abyss which I would consider the first actual initiation rites.

>>18968721
Yes, a lot of people will tell you that it is Agape as opposed to Eros, but this is a false distinction.

>>18968774
>There are as many interpretations as there are Thelemites.

Care to elaborate? Not sure if you are being a tease, or if the gods are with you.

>>18968805
Where Do I read to specifically learn about the A.'.A.'. probation period/initiation?

I saw on some forum, probably LAShTAL or other such garbage, Thelemites saying "I don't think it's possible to self-initiate" and "how can you do that without an official A.'.A.'. instructor?" and shit like that. It's like these guys don't understand the idea of initiation or something...didn't Crowley himself self-initiate? Or am I confused?

>>18968825
>didn't Crowley himself self-initiate?
Absofuckinglutely.
John St. John is the record of his ascension to what he thought was Exempt Adept but was actually just Adeptus Major.

That record of initiation led to the creation of ThROA and Pyramidos.

Pyramidos is the approved self-initiatory rite of the A.'.A.'. where ThROA is the officer version.

As usual, the fuckwits on LAShTAL have no fucking clue what they're on about.

>>18968819
I have heard the rubberband thing a lot. Is this recommended over using a razor, these days? Because, in my particular case, it's the pain and not the act of cutting that turns into perverse pleasure.

>>18968831
Oh yeah, and some nig said Pyramidos is only Crowley's specially designed Rite for K&C of HGA...EXCLUSIVELY MANNN.

>>18968774

>under the guise of "balance" and "do what works" in the face of late and emphatic comments to the contrary in the Adept section.

Balance is the name of the game, only the one thing works. White light is hitting a lense, doesn't matter what colors or patterns appear except in so far as they are tailored for you.

>>18968825

The vast majority of people that turn to an institution for their initiation are never going to be able to pass a serious experiential initiation rite. That being said the vast majority of people that don't turn to an institution will have the same outcome.

In the long run it makes no difference.

>>18968831
>ascension to what he thought was Exempt Adept but was actually just Adeptus Major.
>That record of initiation led to the creation of ThROA and Pyramidos.
HENCE why you keep hearing Thelemites insist that 1=10 A.'.A.'. is equivalent to 5=6 in the Golden Dawn.

There was a lot of chatter about this when I was walking the Golden Dawn initiate through The Dragon Book of Essex.

For what it's worth, completing The Dragon Book of Essex through the Rite of the Turnskin (SA) entitles you to, at least, 3=8 A.'.A.'., as HUA and SA walk you through the main underlying concepts of both Pyramidos/ThROA and Cadaveris. Provided you actually complete the rest of the A.'.A.'. grade requirements in parallel; passing the Rites are no substitute for actually putting in the Work.

>1=10

I have been doing this too long, even the numbers are starting to make sense.

>>18962416
Any thoughts on the american gods show? I enjoyed it but I didn't notice any overt references to the occult.

>>18968819
>For real, that's Vic?
Think about it. Who else did AC have as a student during that time?

>Where Do I read to specifically learn about the A.'.A.'. probation period/initiation in their own source material in the mega?

>>18968841
>Balance is the name of the game, only the one thing works. White light is hitting a lense, doesn't matter what colors or patterns appear except in so far as they are tailored for you.
I mean, I get it, sure.

But the presentation makes the mistake of presenting all of Crowley's comments as equal. His books don't represent a static Revelation imparted in 1904, but a trajectory of greater and greater understanding to the point where I'm not at all uncomfortable asserting that the older comments have precedence, given Eshelman himself recognizes the contents of Berashith (impressive as it may be as a philosophical essay) to be wrong, tracing Crowley's comments in time on the nature of infinitude.

If we can admit he fucked up and revised his comments on something so cosmologically significant to the system, I dunno why we'd present early comments on the HGA or even Augoeides as equally as authoritative as the later.

I mean, as much as J Eshelman leans on Samekh as substantiation of the psychological model, he doesn't reprint the bit where the object of the rite is a VERY literal and physical extraction of the diamond of Bodhicitta from the skull rather than the dick.

Is Franz Bardon's IIH a good entry point for a beginner, or a are there better options?
Going to all-in on a system and want something that is effective and gives fast results to the diligent.

>>18968872
"No."

>>18968872
Check out "beginner's folder" in the mega

>>18968851
Well, to give you an idea of how many people actually got into the A.'.A.'., Spare was the ninth, and he's recognized as an early pilot of the system.

>>18968852
That's sorta a bold question.
What exactly are you looking for, specifically.
There's precious little on the Probation period in terms of protocol but lots of fractious tradition. The public syllabus is assumed to be One Star in Sight, then the actual requirements of the Oath and Task(s).

All rituals are in "Class D" where they belong.

The first section of Yorke Microfilms has lots of low grade early A.'.A.'. shit.

>>18968884
>All rituals are in "Class D" where they belong.
ACKSHUALLY, the unpublished Ceremony of the Equinox is over in Film 1, NS 91. Some various Pyramidos things over in NS 93 as well. Ceremony of the Equinox never got classed as it wasn't a public ritual.

Shame, really, it's rather elegant.

Anyway cat's not going back in the bag now that I've posted it.

>>18968884
I was mainly asking, when someone asks you how to self-initiate and you say 'Do the whole probation period, make the robe, understand and perform Pyramidos" where are you suggesting they get this info?

>>18968917
Up top where I was asking
>standard physical dagger?
I was kind of going off implications Regardie made about its performance in one or more of his texts.

>>18968917
Thoth thank God you're on /x/ I read all your books and I just love them you're an inspiration to me i want to be just like you one day i want to (one day) adopt a name to post with and participate to a point where i become like you. You are my inspiration you are my thoth my ape of thoth.

Thoth can you tell me what magic do you prqctice? What kind of magic do you do. I want to try some of thr same rituals you do. Can you tell me some rituals that have worked for you?

Any response is a blessing from you xxx

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>>18968917
Who's dick did you SUCC to get them secret documents?

>>18968958
>where are you suggesting they get this info
My library.
I've essentially given you the outline of materials. I dunno use Eshelman's book if you need handheld further in terms of syllabi.

>>18968964
Unimply the shit and tell me what you mean.
The dagger is a 'mind'/'air' tool no matter if it's a designated elemental weapon or just your cuttin' blade. It's for cutting through in both cases.

>>18968869
What in particular? I am not sure I am privy to what the actual conversation was, and I have no idea if I read the original or the revised version of Berashith.


Some of the stuff on Atman/Force and infinite space is alright. The extension thing is just stupid, and the failure to consider the symbolic import of Christianity calls into question if he even knows what is good about the Atman bits

>>18968975
A lineage head of an A.'.A.'. branch.

And no SUCC required ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvbctTRpD0A ), I talked with him for like three days on normiebook and then he just dropped the entire file on my lap.

I asked him "Why me? This is against every protocol of the OTO and the A.'.A.'.".

He said "Because you're special."

I passed these on to one of the recent lineages to poke it's head above water. Entirely rectified it. The new lineage was in contact with the person I got the files from. The new lineage asked for the Yorke Microfilms, and they were denied. Like, they knew this guy for like twenty plus years. I knew the man for hours.

I dunno why I was chosen. Don't ask too many questions and just download the files mate.

>>18968989
What magic rituals, are the best and why? What sigil is the best and why?

>>18968978
So just read all The A.'.A.'. stuff then? I have yet to delve into that, though I'm sure there's some stuff in there I *have* read... and I'm asking because I do not have a functional computer or internet at my house. Everything I post here is from a work computer, so I'm leaning toward buying hard copies of whatever books I need.

>>18969010
>stuff in there I *have* read
For the Probationer:
All Class B texts.
Memorize one chapter of Liber LXV.

>>18969019
Ape, may I ask what your A.'.A.'. grade is? I know it's personal and I shouldn't be asking, but I figure, why not?

Looking for texts on Orphism,Demiurge, Hermes, Logos, Logoi, Daemon

Any suggestions or where I could find them? Already have the Demonic in Ancient Politcs and The Demiurge in Ancient thought

>>18969034
>Looking for texts on Orphism,Demiurge, Hermes, Logos, Logoi
Kurt Rudolph's Gnosis: The Nature and History of Gnosticism in my Gnostic Studies folder.

>Daemon
I got a few texts on the Daimon in the Euro folder. Beyond that, probably Chaldean Oracles for all the Neoplatonic Archon classes.

>>18969034
Check the Neo Platonism folder

Hey Ape, anything in regards to shinto in the library? Was poking around, but couldn't find anything.

I'm afraid Japan can't into occult :(

>>18969045
Japan CAN into the Occult but the texts still haven't made it into English because [redacted by tightwad monks].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachikawa-ryu

>>18969047
Neat.

>>18969047
Ape, what's the rundown on astral lodges and their formation/disbanding(?)

>>18969066
I dunno:
>people wanna practice at a distance
>need mental temple space to do it
>project for timed rites
>etc.

>>18969062
It's a pain in the ass these documents haven't made it out of lock and key. Those japs are like the Vatican with these sutras.

>>18969047
Is it pronounced Krau-lee or Crow-lee? I pronounce it Crow-lee, but apparently a bunch of people say "Krau-lee"

>>18969071
O I thought you said at one point OTO had set up astral lodges as, like, an established practice.

>>18969074
"My name is Crowley with rhymes with Holy.
My name is not Crowley which rhymes with Foully"

>>18969079
That's not what Ozzy says. I believe Ozzy.

>>18968884
It had to be sometime shortly prior to Sept. 1910 (Equinox Vol.1 #10).
I freely admit I may be mistaken, but it is generally believed to be VN.

>>18969077
Typhonian Order on an ad-hoc basis.

>>18969039
>>18969040

Thank you, I was hoping to avoid Gnosticism given their contemptus mundi , but at the very least I will see if anybody catches the contradiction in that position.

>>18969086
Shit. Meant #4

>>18969079
Thank you kind sir. Glad to know I haven't been going around saying it wrong all this time. What book is that from?
>>18969085
I always laughed that a goddamn britbong couldn't even get it right.

What do we know about Jimmy Page, his attainment/grade, and his possession of Boleskine? Is he a true initiate? Into what order? &c.

>>18969123
I think it's just a little couplet Robert Anton Wilson concocted.

Great thread guys

>>18969138
>his attainment/grade
None.

He did run the bookstore that Lokanath grew up tending.

>Is he a true initiate
Nope, just a wealthy amateur.

>>18969142
Oh? Funny you should say that, he's the one I heard mispronouncing it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk7vsMPcoAI

>>18969156
Eh I guess he says it right later in the vid. I was just shocked to hear him pronounce it like that right off the bat. Maybe it's his accent

>>18969150
How do you know so much stuff

>>18969178
>>18968989
>I dunno why I was chosen. Don't ask too many questions and just download the files mate.

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Im back with Ifa stories.

Someone asked last night what is the deal with Nganga Zarabanda and Zarabanda the spirit and his animosity towards women of child bearing age.

When Zarabanda and his brothers Lucero and Watariamba were born, they sprang from the body of Madra Agua - similar to how Athena sprang from the forehead of Zeus.
Of all of Tierra Tiembla and Madre Agua's children, Zarabanda (God of War) was the center of controversy.
He was arrogant and abusive to everyone.
He always took advantage when others were not looking.
He indulged in morbid desires.
His selfishness possessed him and he truly believed he deserved to control everything and everyone around him.
Because Zarabanda was the oldest son he was given the right to distribute offerings to his siblings.
He used this as his weapon and advantage over his siblings.
Always problematic and angry, nobody knew if he was in a good or bad mood
He told his siblings he would withhold their share if they told Tierra Tiembla, anyone else, what was happening during his father's absences.
He never respected his mother, and beat her frequently.
Madre Agua kept this secret from Tierra Tiembla, because she feared he would destroy her child.
Zarabanda's uncle could always see in him the evil deeds that were being done, for this the two were not close and Brazo Fuerte (Volcano) kept his distance. But, he never could believe that his nephew was capable of abusing his mother.
Brazo Fuerte came to visit one day very early and to his surprise he found Zarabanda raping Madre Agua.
He became petrified and speechless; what he had seen was so traumatic for him that it caused him to explode.
The skies turned red as blood and fire began to erupt violently.
The earth shook with such ferociousness and it opened up, and from within tongues appeared destroying everything in their path.
The tongues that were seen coming from the earth where flames of fire, an unknown element until this moment in time.
Continued....

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>>18969224
>Madra Agua
Hail unto thee, Mami Wata.

Hello, /omg/. I'm looking for a branch of magic that focuses on intent, through either meditation, strong emotion or both. Thanks for any help.

>>18969047
>its more Buddhism

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>>18969227
>>18969224
>Madra Agua
>Mami Wata

Ayibobo, Mambo LaSirene! LaBelene!
Mother of waves, mistress of the oceans high and low!

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>>18969281
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1GBrr7nB3U

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>>18969224
Fire was and still is Zarabanda's worst enemy.
This is why metal metals in the presence of fire.
The beating that Zarabanda received from Brazo Fuerte was enough to stop him for a short time as he planned and stewed on new ways to overcome Brazo Fuerte's surveillance.
Although, it must not go unnoticed that with these acts fire was discovered.
Some say in Africa today that when the Volcano erupts it is because Brazo Fuerte is fighting with Zarabanda.
After a few short months of peace Zarabanda had discovered another way to work around Brazo Fuerte's watchful eyes and started his abuses once more.
He would try to intimidate his brothers. Watariamba and Ngurfinda were so afraid to loose their offeirngs from the hands of their brother they allowed him to blackmail them.
In return they would play ignorant to the abuse in their father’s home.
The only brother he could not intimidate was the youngest .
Zarabanda tried to blackmail him and the youngest brother only glared at him.
It was here that Zarabanda knew he had found another enemy.
That is when Zarabanda tried to make the young mpungo's life impossible.
The youngest mpungo was Lucero, the playful and bad mannered.
One day after Tierra Tiembla had left , Zarabanda began his ritual of abusing his mother.
Madre Agua fought his brutal attack but was over taken by his brute force.
As he beat his mother there upon the door came three knocks.
There at the door was his father Tierra Tiembla and Zarabanda knew something terrible was about to happen.
Tierra Tiembla stared at him and looked over to the mat, where he saw Madre Agua.
Zarabanda saw in Tierra Tiembla something different, something colder and he knew he was in trouble.
Continued...

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>>18969150
What about Bowie? He got into the occult to try and scare Jimmy Page didn't he?

>>18969248
Chaos magick. Check out Liber Null and Psychonaut in the beginner's folder

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>>18969296
that's very interesting. Not least of all because as far as I can tell, every one of those statues is not (originally) intended to depict Mami Wata, but La Santa Marta Dominadora. Interesting.

Praise to Mother Martha... slayer of dragons and bender of wills. Because I certainly don't want to leave her out if Im posting her picture. Shes a serious lady...

>>18969319
So, like, are the 99 (or howmanyever) aspects of Exu (Eshu as aspects Ellegba) as, like, "Amerind" as they are in Quimbanda?

Because having a spirit for tide, river, lake, beach, etc., while that sounds like something that's a thing on the mainland of Africa, it vaguely feels like (and I'm certainly no African expert) we get more 'big hero' stories (for lack of a better term) in contrast to a lot of the Amazonian cycles of spirit which are at root less 'heroic myth' and more 'taxonomy and toponomy' and Quimbanda feels like we got a good mix - after the Kings and their Pombagira, down in the subclasses.

In other words the feedback on this paper was stellar. Got some forwarded emails for contacts. I just wanna chew on this a little more, w/r/t the possible Amerind influences.

>>18969341
Mami Wata is a semi autonomous diaspora cult which manifests on both coasts of Africa, and as far out as China and South America.

She's Kali syncretized with St. Marta syncretized with a half anonymous river spirit that likes to strike kids with shamanic sickness. The cult took off when Kali images started to come in from India in the middle Colonial era.

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>>18969319
He saw his fathers body but knew the one in front of him was not his father.
Before Tierra Tiemblo could strike Zarabanda fell down and screamed "Baba mi , dont kill me! Don't kill me! Only let me curse myself!"
Tierra Tiembla stopped and Zarabanda began speaking his sentence.
”I, Zarabanda, do promise that as long as the world remains,I shall work for all the Inhabitants day and night till the end of time.”
Tierra Tiembla considered this, then answered “To ban’esu ” ("So it will be").
This is where the mistrust on earth came to be and the curse of the hardship and sacrifice of work.
Tierra Tiembla stood in utter silence for a few minutes and then he began to speak in a firm tone how things would be from now on … “Zarabanda you have chosen your sentence for yourself and from this day nobody will lift this curse from you.
You will be forever from this day Mo-re-oggun ( the sacrificer, the one who feeds the other mpungo) and I shall never trust you again”.
He glanced at Watariamba and he said,
"Watariamba, you chose to be coerced by the payment of offerings ..
From this day on you shall be in charge of the Hunt.
Tthis way nobody will ever be without food.” Tierra Tiembla now turned his gaze upon Ngurufinda and he said,
“Ngurufinda, you where the head of this kingdom.
It was your duty to notify me of all that transpired and you neglected your duty.
From now on you will never speak unless it is of danger or notice of death...
You will only come to the floor if danger is near. Until then you will live above the door and watch over all in the kingdom."
While all this was being said Madre Agua trembled and listened to the sentences that Tierra Tiembla was passing out to her children. She knew soon her husband would turn to her.
Continued...

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>>18969352
see now... I'm pretty familiar with Mami Wata, and that's interesting, I've never heard of Santa Marta being syncretized with any oceanic or water deities. And in point fact I've been taught quite the opposite, that they should not be confused because Martha is not one to be trifled with idly and occasionally someone uses a statue or altarpiece in reverse.. they confuse Mami Wata with Santa Martha... and Ive been cautioned against that mistake by a couple babas and rootworkers.

I guess the thing I found interesting is that this is Santa Martha in place of Mami Wata, not the other way around...

Is there any kind of more "official" source on that syncretization or how it may have formed?

Here again is a perfect example of why I stopped trying to untangle these things, Untie one end of the thing and the other end just gets tangled again.

>>18969341
Yup and that the snake aspect of Tierra Tiembla, Dumballah.

I've been seeing a lot of black rat snakes lately, and shortly afterwards I've always found out some big piece of news or connected some spiritual dots I never noticed before.

The first time it happened, I was hiking in the battlefield and came across a black rat snake sunning at the foot of a monument in the shape of an obelisk.

I had an aha moment on the symbolism when I was at home later that night.

>>18969369
>that they should not be confused
I do not disagree.
But there's a difference between ethnohistory and practice. Syncretized doesn't mean IT'S HER, it just means the image has been borrowed for sake of representative convenience (in this case, lines get blurry).

>Is there any kind of more "official" source on that syncretization or how it may have formed?
Absolutely, we got "Practice and Agency in Mammy Wata Worship in Southern Nigeria" and then "Mami Wata: Africa's Ancient God/dess Unveiled Vol. I" which is a vanity print but she goes really far out of her way to integrate the anthro with some pretty and compelling pics. Then whatever fucking article that the pics you first chimed in on was from but I CAN'T FIND IT FOR THE LIFE OF ME.

>>18969370
>I've been seeing a lot of black rat snakes lately
Gardens snake near my home.
Dead infant rattler on a well traveled public sidewalk. Looked like an exposure death. Took it down to the river (I don't wanna crack my Wytchbottle or go to the trouble of preserving him this week).

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>>18969361
Tierra Tiembla now looked upon his youngest son and he announced,
”Lucero, ou are a true Prince in my kingdom. You came to me not afraid of what I would say and you told me the truth.
I promise you will never go hungry again or be mistreated by others.
You did not allow yourself to be coerced into silence.
From this day on … I decree, you will be the first to eat and everyone will have to give you moforibale (offerings).
They will even have to give you moforibale before me,
To enter into this house they will have to ask your permission and if you deny them entrance they will NEVER be able to enter.
You will guard the roads and opportunities of life.
NO ONE will be able to reach me or any other mpungo without going through you.
And, you will be able to be everywhere at the same time.
Lucero fell down on the floor in respect to Tierra Tiembla and said,
"Mo’ dupe baba mi (Thank you my father).
At this moment is when it was written that the youngest came before the eldest and that all good deeds would receive a blessing.
Then, Tierra Tiembla turned to Madre Agua and he said unto her,
“Obini (wife), From this moment on your punishment will be that any male child you bear into this world shall be put to death!"
Yembo’s blood froze.
Upon hearing her husbands sentence she became crazy with anger.
It was at this moment she earned the title Furious Mother.
Madre Agua's fury became so great no one in the kingdom could calm her and to this day it is only Tierra Tiembla himself that keeps her in control.
Her fury is so great that Madre Agua wants to swallow the earth with the sea.
When she remembers this moment, they say it is then that the Tsunamis and Hurricanes occur on Earth.
Madre Agua understood that although her son’s actions were grave and should be sentenced and punished, she could not understand the sentence on her unborn sons.
(This is one reason I personally also syncretize her with Tiamat.)
Continued...

>>18969380
No!!!
I need it's head and rattle.
I would pay you to ship them to me!

>>18969390
I wouldn't take money and I'll keep that in mind if I see others.

>>18969370
>snake aspect of Tierra Tiembla, Dumballah.
ahh I think this may be where some of that syncretization is occuring... as far as I've always been taught, the snake present in statues to Santa Marta is in refference to the dragon she slew, and her ability to dominate even the most tricky and dangerous wills. Ive never heard it having anything to do with a deific snake figure.

>>18969377
>Syncretized doesn't mean IT'S HER, it just means the image has been borrowed for sake of representative convenience (in this case, lines get blurry).

Right, right, I follow...

>Absolutely... titles
I always forget my jstor password right when I need it.


The older I get, and the more I see of american traditional hoodoo and rootwork and it's relation to other beliefs, the more I see it as a truly unique entity, there's so many shades of difference even when they appear to be so in line with other diasporic practices. There's a paper in all that somewhere.

>>18969390
>>18969397
I would also pay for head and rattle, or hell pretty much any part, they're very potent. Rattlesnakes are a major staple of some very powerful gris-gris.

>>18969385
So anyway - at this point is when Zarabanda was exiled to Earth.
He arrived here with 2 massive black hounds at his sides and started clearing paths and built his house hidden deep in the jungle.
There, only Watariamba will visit him - and occasionally Lucero.
There's also the incident where Centella Ndoki (his future wife) left him for Siete Rayos, the son of Brazo Fuerte.
OUCH....
So needless to say his bad attitude and various incidents that turned out very badly for him involving women are why he will usually not allow women of child bearing age to possess, operate, or approach his Nganga.
He does accept elderly women, barren women, and feminine men.
Zarabanda is probably one of the most feared and second most powerful mpungo venerated in Palo Mayombe.
Make no mistake, if you piss off one of his children and they send him after you... I would be extremely worried.
He is called the Owner of the Knife, and his hand slays all animal sacrifices.
In the distant past in the Kongo offerings of human hearts were also supposedly given to him.

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>>18969400
And, a required ingredient in Nganga Zarabanda.

Some things I just haven't been able to get my hands on yet because I haven't come across them on my scavenging hikes.

Right kids... I think we're at bump limit.
See y'all later.

>>18969421
Neat. Thanks for the story. That really hit the spot.

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>>18969428

>>18969428
^This.

>>18969421
As always.

>>18969415
thanks for the story Palo!

>>18969421
To return that favor regarding the uses of rattler:
rattler heads, skin sheds, and fangs are all useful in various offensive powders, including THAT offensive powder. Skin and sheds are also useful in any kind of domination or binding recipe, though they might be a bit heavy handed.

Rattles are used in divination, for luck, and are said to be a strong charm to encourage artists, particularly musicians. Many delta blues musicians had dried rattles in their guitars because they believed it granted them supernatural mastery of music.

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>>18969348
Arawak mixed with African.

But, for instance, Lucero the trickster is more serious than the AmerInd tricksters I now about....at least the way the stories are retold now.

But, I see in Coyotl shades of a darker aspect also and it leads me to believe any AmerInd mythology you read in modern times is SEVERELY watered down for mass consumption.

>>18969456
>more serious than the AmerInd tricksters I now about
You should read the Made From Bone book I posted into the Shamanism folder.

>>18968774
Yeah, that's why I was trying to
Be specific re: what's meant by psych model, they do seem to have a therapy informed psych-centred conception of the work, at least on public statements. Fwiw I've heard their students talk about the higher level work necessarily involving a non-human other

>>18968824
>this is a false distinction.
Why?

>>18969400
I live in central Mexico, and happen to have an ash tree growing in my backyard. How much would you pay for rattlesnake parts?

>>18969654
that really depends on several factors, what parts, how many, if theyre already desicated or cleaned, condition etc.

If I'm just buying a half crushed roadkill rattlesnake, skin guts and all, Im not going to pay as much as like, a full skeleton, seperate skin cured, or skull removed and cleaned etc....

To give you an idea though of stuff online, full rattlesnake skeletons in good condition articulated and all are going in the 180-250 range. Skulls themselves (cleaned and prepared) are in the 60$ range. Tanned skins are often sold by the inch but come out to be in the 40-60 dollar range. Rattler shed, which Id also love, are around 10-15$.

The more cleaning and prep Id have to do to the animal, the more under those prices Id want to spend.

>>18969686
morale to the story being, if you know how to skin and clean the bones up, a rattlesnake carcass in good condition could probably bag you like 350 once everything was cleaned and presentable.

And if you have regular access to sheds, you could sell them on etsy for 10$ a pop with zero effort.

>>18969686
>>18969703
Woah. Well, I'll keep my eyes peeled then.

>>18969749
oh and look into how to preserve the rattles, or look into getting some little clear glass or plastic bottles for them, theyre very fragile and usually dont last long without physical protection

>>18969647
Eros isn't sexual desire/love.

>>18968373

Discipline, I don't think the states achieved through drugs count for much.

>>18968380

Then there's his claim that you can be a great occultist and a perfectly normal person.

>>18968644
>So is one supposed to use the dagger for the pentagram rites and wand for hexagram rites, etc?

Dagger for both, in most cases. Eventually, you might graduate to a sword.

>>18968833
>I have heard the rubberband thing a lot. Is this recommended over using a razor, these days?

I'd recommend a rubber band,

>>18970984
New threads:
>>18970390
>>18970986