Astral projection

>>18906323
You can do it doctor strange

>>18906323
What method did you use?

File: image.jpg (17KB, 463x317px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 463x317px

>>18906341
I just sort of did a guided meditation
>now I have swirls on my head
Pic related

>>18906368
Sounds interesting. I've never tried astral projection. I have had some strange sensations with meditation though. A few times after I had cleared my thoughts I felt like I was burning up all over and my heart started beating fast. It also felt like waves of energy were rolling through me.
Not sure about the swirls. Reminds me a bit of the Choku rei symbol.

>>18906323
Here's a good beginner's method.
>Do your meditation or just get your mind under control then go to sleep.
>Set your alarm clock a few hours before you need to get up, or after you've had 3-4 hours of sleep. After a while you'd start waking up naturally without a need for an alarm.
>After you wake up, try do induce a sleep paralysis, try to feel different bodypatrs moving without actually moving them. Basically you're creating an energetic copy of yourself which you can then project into the astral plane.
>After a while of doing that you're going to feel vibrations in your whole body, keep it up for a while.
>Focus on the ringing in your ears which comes with it and try to make it as loud as possible, basically adjusting the vibrations.
>When you feel like you're about to die any second, just use whatever technique to project or try to roll you body to the side and the projection just pops out.
When the projection runs out and you wake up, just focus on the ringing again and you can pop another one out right away, you can do it until youre absolutely drained, just keep in mind that if you overdo it, you're gonna feel like someone beat the shit out of you while you slept, with a healthy serving of excruciating headache.

>>18906448
So then what's an advanced method?

>>18907803
you'll have your own method once you try different methods, you'll find what works for you

I've been trying to project for years.

I did it once about a year ago. I got out and ended up flying around my room. I almost instantly forgot who I was or that I had even been attempting to AP.

I blacked out the rest of the journey and when I reintegrated into my body I could only remember bits and pieces of the event.

My theory is that your ego is dependent upon your physical brain. When you "unplug" from it you operate instead from a sort of etheric energy body that doesn't process information in the same way the human body/brain does. When your reenter your body, your energy body attempts to sync up with your physical body and record the events that just occured during the journey into your physical brain. It doesn't seem like the process always works.

>>18906323
First - astral projection is not a thing

Second - if you wish to lucid dream going straight from a lucid wakeful state to a dreaming state is near-impossible for beginners. Start with a dream journal and reality checks before trying WILD.

>>18906448
>>18907803
>>18907820
The best and most easily replicated method for all skill levels is "finger induced" lucid dreaming.
1 - Set an alarm for 3-4 hours after you go to sleep that will automatically shut off (this is important, you want it to wake you but you want to avoid moving)
2 - don't move an inch, the goal here is to stir the mind without breaking sleep paralysis
3 - begin "moving" (in quotes because they don't actually move) two fingers on your dominant hand up and down as slightly as humanly possible. You don't want them to move, you just want to feel the tiniest tug. Ignore any sensations as you continue this for a few minutes
4 - do a reality check. If you succeeded your reality check will fail and you will be in a lucid dream able to do as you please. If your reality check succeeds and you weren't able to return to sleep try again another night.

>>18907890
AP is most definitely "a thing".

It's been discussed and written about by several civilizations seperated sometimes by thousands of years and isolated by large oceans.

We can argue about whether it is possible for the mind to seperated from the body, but it is dishonest to sweep the entire concept under the rug when there is good reason to believe that the people who have written about these things experienced SOMETHING.

>>18907905
I'm not interested in arguing this point.

Astral projection is not a thing and you're being very silly if you believe it is.

What they experienced was indeed something: lucid dreaming.

Funny how the steps to lucid dreaming and astral projection, as well as the experiences about said events, are 100% fucking identical.

>>18907910
I take it you're a materialist.

I respect the point that astral projection and lucid dreaming may be the same thing.

But this is the important part: we don't know. You don't know. I don't know. No one knows.

No one on this Earth knows whether the spirit even exists and, if it does, whether people are capable of projecting a part of themselves out of their own body.

To claim absolute knowledge of the supernatural either existing or not existing is intellectually dishonest.

My point is that the concept of AP has been around much longer than "lucid dreaming", so call it what it is.

>>18907870
>I closed my eyes and went into sleep paralysis
>then flew, everyone knows you can't fly in a dream
>then there are bits and pieces that don't make much sense and have nothing connecting them where I didn't realize who I really was
Yeah, you must've changed into a ghost with a special ghost brain. That makes more sense than dreaming.

File: laughing.jpg (94KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 500x333px

>>18907931
>But this is the important part: we don't know. You don't know. I don't know. No one knows.
Fuck you. True knowledge is impossible outside of the most basic axiom of cogito ergo sum. All other "knowledge" MUST be based on assumptions.

I claim no absolute knowledge of anything but my own existence, but if you believe that this phenomenon is better explained by "some kind of immaterial copy of your body and mind leaves your body and roams nonsensical planes of existence that have zero overlap and don't allow for communication between projectors despite ostensibly being a physical dimension somewhere" than "you dream but a certain part of your brain that's usually not active is active." then you are a fucking idiot.

>the concept of AP has been around much longer than lucid dreaming
The concept of bloodletting has been around much longer than Penicillin, but you don't see people sticking leeches on their body to cure gonorrhea.

>>18907932
Is there something wrong with that lump of taffy between your ears?

I acknowledged that all of AP may be the result of the human brain.

My post was attacking the actual experience of the thing. If I feel that I was flying around in my room, then I was. Even if it was only in my mind.

Whether these things only happen in a dream or not, the experience remains the same. It FEELS like you're projecting out of your body so you might as well call it AP.

>>18907962
>It FEELS like you're projecting out of your body so you might as well call it AP
AP carries an explicit spiritual/supernatural connotation that is flat out wrong, so no, you mightn't as well call it AP.

But this is besides the point. OP wanted to know how to lucid dream better/more reliably.

The answer is a dream journal, reality checks, and FILD. Full stop.

File: 1491753342191.jpg (66KB, 600x718px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 600x718px

>>18907949
I may explain any experience with any intellectual framework that I like and it will be just as valid as yours.

Reread my post. I don't claim to know the truth. You are the one claiming that AP isn't real.

And YOU are the one that cannot provide evidence to back up your claim. I have no burden of proof because I do not claim to know whether it is true or not. I only have a framework that I utilize for the purposes of studying the Occult.

Now GTFO my board, dogmatic materialists.

I once managed to come out of my body and wander around watching and listening over people at a party whilst on a strong dose of ketamine, weed and MDMA lol. happened pretty randomly though all I did was sit down and I sorta started dreaming but I could hear everyone around me until I slowly shifted into that out of body experience

Astral projection and lucid dreaming aren't the same thing though, I've had lucid dreams quite a few times and they're just dreams in which you are aware that you're actually dreaming allowing you to control them, they mostly occur when something is semi-waking you up as you're dreaming or if something is waking you in and out of your dream constantly whilst you're still dreaming, giving you that awareness that you're asleep

File: whatsthissay.jpg (38KB, 750x490px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 750x490px

>>18907988
>omg u guise im so intellectually honest that i dont even need evidence backing my beliefs
>its so easy all i have to do is pretend im not making any claims of knowledge at all and everyone else is even though the epistemic framework im using to define knowledge precludes it entirely

File: 1489621134737.jpg (123KB, 750x537px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 750x537px

>>18907973
And what's wrong with the supernatural, huh?

Let me guess, you're a fedora tipper as well, aren't you? I'll never understand what brings you folks to /x/. If I wanted to laugh at nearly two hundred thousand years of spiritual tradition, I'd watch the Amazing Atheist or hang out at that Atheism subreddit cesspool.

You can't even appreciate the mystery. Your entire worldview is an inversion of the spiritual conception of the universe and you are completely blind to this fact. You are literally an edgy reaction to religion.

File: 1476942611288.gif (412KB, 500x280px) Image search: [Google]

412KB, 500x280px

>>18907991
>man I took a powerful dissociative and then dissociated, how weird is that!?!?!?!?

>>18908032
>what's wrong with the supernatural
It by definition can't exist

>>18907973
>mightn't
I don't know if this is right.
Can anyanon help?

>>18908028
You're a fool. There is no objective evidence in the occult. If you wish to study it you must remain between the two polarities of believing it and thinking it's bullshit.

Too much of one and you lose your mind. Too much of the other and you stop studying the Occult.

You have no idea what you're talking about and no amount of strawmen will change that.

>>18908048
Yes, it's correct.

>>18908051
>There is no objective evidence in the occult
>If you wish to study
You can't study that which has no objective evidence.

>>18908032
>Why come to /x/
I feel like it's a natural occurrence. If we didn't have a voice of reason, we'd all be actual loons like the feminazis who have no one to draw the line.

>>18908051
>>18907988
come back when you have a better understanding of the word "knowledge" and what constitutes a burden of proof.

>>18908063
>Correct
Ty

>>18908041
Let me play your game.

>HURRR DURRR NOTHING EXISTS OUTSIDE OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE THERE IS NOTHING OUTSIDE OF THIS PHYSICAL PLANE

How exactly are you going to prove that, Mr. SwordCane?

>Inb4 semantic argument that nothing can exist outside of nature

Okay, fine. Then maybe instead of the "supernatural", I instead say "spoopy weird stuff"?

>>18908066
>>18908032
I come here to articulate my views and challenge the inevitably poorly-constructed cases of those defending things like astral projection or psychic powers. It's good practice for argumentation skills, exposes me to lapses in logic and instances of doublethink I'd have otherwise never encountered, and helps me to crystallize my thoughts on these matters.

Is that not a better reason than RP posting HOW I SUMMON SUCCUBUS

>>18908080
>>HURRR DURRR NOTHING EXISTS OUTSIDE OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE THERE IS NOTHING OUTSIDE OF THIS PHYSICAL PLANE
I didn't make that claim, but yes, it would seem rather logical that there is no "thing" that could exist without space and time (which are part of the universe - there is no time our space outside the universe)

>ok fine what about spoopy weird stuff
Much better, because now you're admitting that your claims are by nature extraordinary and therefore require extraordinary proof.

So let's see that proof.

>>18908063
Yes you can. You can study mythology. There is no objective evidence that Zeus is real.

>>18908095
If you are studying mythology then the objective evidence is the historical record of mythology.

If you're studying fiction the objective evidence is the word on the page.

You're not very bright.

>>18908092
I make no claim that these things are real. I only claim that they are absolutely real in the mind.

You need to learn reading comprehension. I've repeated this over and over.

File: Icameheretolaughatyou.jpg (150KB, 700x1120px) Image search: [Google]

150KB, 700x1120px

>>18908107
>I make no claim that these things are real. I only claim that they are absolutely real in the mind.

>>18907803
Frank Kepple's 'Phasing'

File: 1454000494764.jpg (25KB, 540x720px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 540x720px

>>18907949
>you

File: 1489415925577.jpg (83KB, 551x776px) Image search: [Google]

83KB, 551x776px

>>18908100
You're very astute at playing word games.

And you're also very convinced of your own intelligence.

When I say there is no objective evidence in the Occult it is precisely because there is none. If you're going to move the goal post and say "well the book is objective evidence" then I'll agree that the book is objective evidence that the Occult exists as a concept. But as far as the things written in those books, no, the wild things said within those books cannot be proven.

There is no objective evidence that magic exists or that gods, demons and angels exist. All of these things are subjective to the practitioner who studies them and practices magic to subjectively experience things outside of the ordinary.

Whether or not these things are real is not the concern of an Occultist, and neither is it of mine. I simply don't care whether Baal is real or not. But I do know that if you call on him, you will experience some pretty strange things.

Regardless, you've twisted my words when all I've claimed is that neither of us know with a certainty whether AP is real.

All I know is that the experience IS real. I don't really care whether you call it lucid dreaming or anything else, the truth lies in the experience itself.

And now I'm finished repeating myself.

>>18906323
Research the army programs on remote viewing.

>>18908109
Semantics.

Real: Actually existing as a fact independent of the mind. Not imagined.

Now reread my post and you'll figure it out. I have faith in you.

>>18908154
There are people who were trained to do it, by the U.S. Military. To view anything happening on the Earth. A kind of projection of self. Real program.

>>18908144
>When I say there is no objective evidence in the Occult it is precisely because there is none
Then you cannot study it.
> If you're going to move the goal post and say "well the book is objective evidence"
I did no such thing. You claimed that mythology has no objective evidence which is an asinine claim that I refuted. You have terribly misunderstood the argumentation taking place.

>You've twisted my words
No, I've untwisted them. Your worldview is one of doublethink and twisted meanings.

>Regardless, you've twisted my words when all I've claimed is that neither of us know with a certainty whether AP is real.
And as I've said, that is a meaningless assertion. I can't know with certainty anything other than the fact of my own existence.

Last month I was lying down, eyes closed, my body starts to feel numb and I can hear a vibration. all my body is "vibrating" and the waves make my "self" loose inside. My conciousness is literally getting detached from my body.
>scaryshit.jpg
I freak out and wake up.

>>18908166
>>18908154
>real failed program
FTFY

US psi ops was a combination of con men getting a buck off the government and russian intelligence tricks convincing the US that Russia had discovered psychic powers and was going to win a psychic arms race.

>>18907890
I didn t think that is the true astral projection as the master would say.
In one hand, you have the invisible plan (astral plan) is not an homogene plan and have a gradation from bad to good, from, matter who is invisible but a lot linked with phisical matter (like bad emotion for example) to matter who is pure energy as compassion or love. People in the tradition, want to travel in astral plan because they want to meet enlighted people who lived in high spere of purity (bodisatva) to get teaching and knowledge.
In the other hand many experience was done on dream, lucid dream, sleep. We prove that the sleeping time is divided in two phase that repeat few time in one night. One phase where the conscience is out, no much brain activities, but we can easily think we still have image and a kind of dream. and a half counscious part with much more activities and and memories of image and dream. That was proven that this phase is a phase of awake, and so the counscious awake long before body.
Intellectual capacities can be divided in two category. One category is physical intellect who is the intellec attacjed to the body and intellect share with animal, which is here to solve any problem that the body meet, food, security,etc. It s an intelligencia that you need to work a lot on the process, learn the step etc etc. And you have an intellect that is more spiritual and that is connect with intuition, who is fast, way higher form physical and always turn to other people.
If we mixt the two hand we can link your experience with the second phase of sleeping who is a mechanical process. But cannot go to meet high being because you still are in the low astral. It s mean to when you say youo go to another room you cannot hear a conversation that is happened, because is still your imagination

>>18908173
Wrong time period but thank Anon.

>>18908198
In fact, totally different. Kek.

>I know exactly what your talking about!!!I CAN READ YOUR MIND! Astral projection!

>>18908169
Now we're getting to the meat and potatoes.

I'm amused by your statement of "doublethink and twisted meanings". Yes, absolutely and by necessity it is. As I already explained, the study and practice of the Occult requires paradoxical thinking.

It's funny because I feel that you have also misunderstood my arguments. Perhaps we're both correct?

Im going to break my own promise to myself and repeat myself again: yes, there is evidence that the study of myths exists, but the gods and entities within those myths themselves have no objective evidence of their own reality. As an example: there is no objective evidence that Zeus existed as described by the ancients.

^this also applies to nearly everything in the Occult. Just swap out "mythology" for "occult".

Y'know, I have really enjoyed beating my head against the wall with you. If you're ever in AZ drop me a line and I'll buy you a beer.

I had a bad experience the one time I attempted to astral project and haven't done it since.
>be fairly young, maybe 12 or 13, and kind of into the occult
>read about astral projection and think it sounds pretty cool
>do the whole meditative going though a tunnel toward a light kind of thing
>hear a snap or crack or whatever it was and end up in this fairly small dim room. I think made of stone or brick.
>the only thing in the room was a door and a man sitting in a chair. Can't remember if he didn't have any features, or if they just don't come to mind.
>every fiber in my body tells me I'm not safe
>leave quickly
>unable to sleep the entire night
>constantly feel like I'm being watched and thinking I see eyes in the walls of my room.
>tell my mom, who was very religious, about the experience and she prays in my room for protection (also tosses a few of my teen angst kind of posters you get from Newbury comics claiming they might be part of the problem, but I think she just took it as an opportunity since she never liked them)
>never see the eyes again but still can't shake the feeling of being watched (though to a much lesser extent)
>give up on occult
In retrospect, I was a very imaginative kid and could have easily been picturing the whole thing based on my fear of trying something like that for the first time, but it was easily the most vivid "dream" I've ever had

File: whatarebirdswejustdontknow.gif (1002KB, 250x251px) Image search: [Google]

1002KB, 250x251px

>>18908191
Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

>>18908218
>Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

sorry, im not english speaker native, i don t understand your question

>>18908239
Nobody does.

>>18908218
The answer is obviously no because AP isn't real and God isn't real either.

Something, something, sky daddy and Chinese teapot orbiting Mars.

Can I be a real materialist yet?

>>18908209
>yes, there is evidence that the study of myths exists, but the gods and entities within those myths themselves have no objective evidence of their own reality.
You made a claim.

That claim was "there is no objective evidence for mythology," with the logical attachment that studying mythology is obviously possible and therefore you don't need objective evidence to study something.

When you are studying mythology, the objective evidence is the myths. If someone asked you "Who was Zeus" and asked for evidence, you'd point to Grecian myths about Zeus to support your statements. Your attempt to logically reach the conclusion that you don't need physical evidence to study something fails.

You are correct, of course, that there is no evidence of Zeus actually existing. This would preclude the ability to study Zeus in a nonfictional historical context, as he does not exist in that context, and there is no evidence of said (non)existence to study.

It is certainly possible to study "the occult" in terms of the state of the community or the claims being levied or the attempts to create some reliable and objective evidence of immaterial powers, but these senses do have objective evidence (the community and its communications). Directly studying "the occult" as in astral projection or psychic powers is not possible because there is no objective evidence to study. Which, all but Karl Rove would agree, is powerful evidence of absence.

Buy me a beer and I'll buy you vodka

>>18908239
i experimented with astral projection 10y ago and just couldnt do it past the meditation, but the thing i learned and what is easier to master is lucid dreaming, the best results i got was sleeping for 2-4hours,then awake for 30minutes,then going to sleep again and i guarantee there will be pretty vivid dreams, the key now is to realize it is a dream, it is pretty tough to think clearly in a dream,you must focus so hard,but it can be learned,keep practicing

>>18908261
I actually mostly agree with what you've written here.

I still believe that we're playing a semantics game, but I may just be failing to effectively express my views so I'm giving it a pass.

Have you ever practiced ceremonial magic? I think you would enjoy it if it you can put away your logical mind for a bit.

I believe it is important to remain skeptical of the Occult even when you've fully invested yourself into it. That is why I appear to hold two opposing viewpoints on many of these topics.

I have experienced full physical manifestations of entities called by nothing more than a sigil and concentration (fully sober, mind you. And I have gotten my head checked my a medical professional. I am apparently sane).

Now imagine how frustrating it can be for me to have to take that firsthand experience with a grain of salt. I have to force myself to understand that what I witnessed may have just been a hallucination because there is no objective evidence that what I experienced subjectively really happened outside of my mind.

To keep your sanity in the Occult, you have to incorporate both modes of thought.

And I could definitely go for a screwdriver.

>>18908300
to make a true astral travel, you must have a body in the astral world. When you born, you just have a seed. You have to give water to get it become a tree (a man), and that, no magic can do it, just the magic of the good act.

>>18906323
You need to become proficient in meditation, (meaning your concentration isn't broken by little things like dogs barking or the phone ringing for at *least* thirty minutes) then astral projection will come fairly easy once you find a technique that works for you, The reason a lot of people fail or think it doesn't work since it didn't work for them, is that they try to run before learning to crawl.

>>18908169
Stop being such a fucking tryhard.
Just because something has no objective evidence doesn't then mean you cannot study it.
Your trying to sound elitist with your vocabulary, but it just makes you look like the "18 year old in my first philosophy class" that you are (at least mentally) because the vocabulary is needlessly descriptive without actually backing up anything you're arguing.
You're also very bad at arguing, and not a very logical thinker.
Mythology has as much objective evidence as the occult, and can be studied.

>>18908317
I would be very interested in hearing your tales of physical manifestation.

>>18907931
>No one knows
Oh really?

>>18907890
I am experienced in all sorts of altered states of consciousness. Through my own experiences I have concluded that Lucid dreaming and Astral Projection are two totally different things.

Lucid dreaming is nothing like Astral projection. The only thing they have in common is that they're experiences that one can have.

>>18907931
>But this is the important part: we don't know. You don't know. I don't know. No one knows.


There are many who know, but only through their experiences, which cannot be shared. Look at Op's pic, ever heard of Dmt?

>>18908041
>actually believing what definitions say
nice meme buddy

>>18908095
Also no evidence Zues isnt real.