The Emptiness of Emptiness

>>18868270

Because there is a massive vaccum between particles, and if such a vaccum would be reduced by compressing all matter, then we would occupy less than 10% of the space we occupy.

Now, that is the physical aspect of it.

Spiritually, things just are. A mountain is just that, a mountain. We are the ones that add things to the concept itself.

>>18868270
but they aren't, all things are gravity field perturbations, empty is simply the word for fewer perturbations, pre-time, before the big bang is as close to empty as it gets, but even it is a simulation from the mind of infinity emergent from the infinite fractal whole.

>>18868298
>>18868310
Ya'll aren't helping.

>>18868270

nothing is only a starting point for students to understand the truth.

this is the only truth you need to realize.

nothing does not exist

once you understand you will be liberated from it

there is nothing in the circle, you cannot grasp it

once this thought stops existing in your mind,
you might actually lose it

>>18869825
Could you elaborate? Also, what does this have to do with what I said?

As a Westerner the biggest thing is accepting that something came from nothing. Logic makes that impossible. That is the thing that keeps me up at night. Yet, sometimes I am able to grasp it, and in those moments I feel something. It isn't peace, it isn't comfort, it's just, nothing. You get used to the feeling of nothing, and eventually you learn to accept it. That's as far as I've ever gotten. Meditation, I'm new to it, on and off for a few years. I have a very hard time separating myself from myself and everything. The best method for me is Zen. Clear the mind, let thoughts drift by, know them as thoughts but do not let them take hold, let them go. Let them go until they stop coming. I've been there a few times, but it always scared me, like lucid dreams- I tend to snap out of that state I was searching for. It's so hard to get out of your own mind. I do live quite spartan though I need not. I am a better person for the meditation, I am a much more level-headed guy, and people see it. But, I still can't stay in the spot. Sometimes I despair, sometimes I feel like I can't do it. I haven't gotten there. And, I know there isn't an end game here. I fail so often.

>>18869890
>As a Westerner the biggest thing is accepting that something came from nothing. Logic makes that impossible. That is the thing that keeps me up at night. Yet, sometimes I am able to grasp it, and in those moments I feel something. It isn't peace, it isn't comfort, it's just, nothing. You get used to the feeling of nothing, and eventually you learn to accept it. That's as far as I've ever gotten. Meditation, I'm new to it, on and off for a few years. I have a very hard time separating myself from myself and everything. The best method for me is Zen. Clear the mind, let thoughts drift by, know them as thoughts but do not let them take hold, let them go. Let them go until they stop coming. I've been there a few times, but it always scared me, like lucid dreams- I tend to snap out of that state I was searching for. It's so hard to get out of your own mind. I do live quite spartan though I need not. I am a better person for the meditation, I am a much more level-headed guy, and people see it. But, I still can't stay in the spot. Sometimes I despair, sometimes I feel like I can't do it. I haven't gotten there. And, I know there isn't an end game here. I fail so often.
I think this is good copypasta, I am going to save it

no memory no BurDens of pain

>>18869917
We can't live like that though, we'd be freaks.

>>18869917
Lucy, I hear ya. I've been like that my whole life. I'm older now, though, an I have to start killing this world. I have to make a good mark. It's a man's job to leave things better than he found them. That's the idea. But.

>>18869890
I resonate a lot with this. Nevertheless it isn't really what I was asking about...

Has anyone studied Sunyata?

>>18869986
Go on, sir. We haven't.

There is a fucking point at which a 4chan user of many years draws a line. For me, it just happened. The sixth time one sees their own post from months or years ago, used as a talking point against yourself. It's fucking eerie every time. It goes away. The thing that lingers is the fact that, perhaps you've been around too long. It hurts, because this means it's time. Even 4channers have to grow up.

>>18870061
I would never have thought my last post would be on this board. /x/ Somebody sent me off like a dead king, please, it would really ease the pain of this oldfags departure, send me out on a duckroll or something we shitty old fuckers remember. please.

>>18870061
>>18870078
No idea what you're on about.

>>18870001
'Emptiness' or 'Sunyata' in Buddhism, as I understand it, is the self evident truth that all compounded phenomena have no independant existence; they have no eternal essential being of their own and are empty of any kind of 'self' nature.

There are many subtle aspects to emptiness. One example is that every conditional thing is compounded by other things, like a cart is made up of its wheels etc, which in turn depend on its spokes etc. There is no 'cart' other than those things.

Of course there are many other angles to get at emptiness from that I'm not including here for brevity.

With that in mind, what do ya'll think about my original post?

>>18870276
I should add that 'emptiness' is - again, as I understand it - a sort of intuitive common core or logical conclusion to three other Buddhist concepts: dependant origination, impermanence, and no-self.

File: rangjung_dorje.jpg (327KB, 1000x1486px) Image search: [Google]

327KB, 1000x1486px

All experience is the manifestation of mind.
As for mind, there is no mind; mind's nature is empty.
Empty and unceasing, mind arises as experience.
By looking into mind deeply, may I be clear about how it is.

>>18870357
Interesting response.
>As for mind there is no mind; mind's nature is empty.
What do you mean by that?

>>18870560
All things are just appearances in your own awareness and thus are empty of intrinsic nature. And, according to the Madhyamaka school, that awareness/mind itself is empty, beyond existence and non-existence.

File: 427px-Mahasiddha_Naropa.jpg (94KB, 427x599px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 427x599px

Were I to explain Mahamudra, I would say-
All phenomena? Your own mind!
If you look outside for meaning, you'll get confused.
Phenomena are like a dream, empty of true nature,

And mind is merely the flux of awareness,
No self nature: just energy flow.
No true nature: just like the sky.
All phenomena are alike, sky-like.

That's Mahamudra, as we call it.
It doesn't have an identity to show;
For that reason, the nature of mind
Is itself the very state of Mahamudra

>>18868270
>That is to say, emptiness itself is empty.

I wrote an entire blog post about this, as cliche as that sounds, after some day dreaming a few weeks back. There can never be a state in which nothing exists, because to suppose such a state *is* implies that something exists, thus undoing the concept of a state wherein nothing exists.

True non existence is a state in which nothing exists, not even the state itself.

>>18870777
> that awareness/mind itself is empty, beyond existence and non-existence
Could you elaborate please?

>>18870877
I like that :) It's like a nihilism that annihilates itself. That's actually how I got out of the trap of meaninglessness in my teens.

>>18870805
>And mind is merely the flux of awareness
>That's Mahamudra, as we call it.
It doesn't have an identity to show
(I'm assuming Mahamudra is synonymous to emptiness)

Explain both of these in more detail please.

>>18870922
third line meant to be green texted*

>>18870902
Read this
http://promienie.net/images/dharma/books/mahamudra_the-moonlight.pdf
http://www.unfetteredmind.org/aspirations-for-mahamudra/0/

and later, for Dzogchen meditation instruction, Yeshe Lama.

>>18870944
Will do :) Thank you.

Does my original post seem on the mark to you?

File: 1489625944657.png (443KB, 800x1182px) Image search: [Google]

443KB, 800x1182px

>>18870061
>>18870078

>>18870908
Wrote a blog post about this too when I was struggling to define any meaning whatsoever, because there remains way to demonstrate that anything truly is. Regardless, meaning comes about through experience, real or not. The reality of phenomena is not pertinent as, to the individual as he comprehends it, the reality is manifest. Thus, the logical course of action is alter that which is manifest to the will of he who perceives it.

>>18871722
*remains no way

dzogchan is like buddhism, but it takes the simplicity away and tries to make it complicated and mystical.
kys

>>18871801
Dzogchen, just like Zen, is actually as simple as Buddhism can get

as far as the end of the op, I think you're correct about not being perceived symbolically and exemplified in silence.There's great discussion here however it seems that emptyness is incredibly difficult to describe, much less specifically address

>>18868270
It is to say, emptiness itself is FULL, not empty. We are filled, with such emptiness.

nothing is something, absence is a substance. inherent in the void is the blue print for all that is. to quote the dao de ching: 'we make a cup out of clay, but it is the emptyness that holds the water. we build houses, but it is the inner space that makes them liveable' yin yang thang

>>18868270
I think the concept is that the entire universe is one whole and we're the ones who split it into separate things, when really nothing is separated from each other.

Take a person, a wall ahead of him, then a person on the other side of the wall. He is touching the air between him and the wall, the air is touching the wall, the wall touches the air between itself and the other person, the other person touches the air. All conjoined, no boundaries.

File: emptiness.png (566KB, 552x557px) Image search: [Google]

566KB, 552x557px

>>18869860
not everything has a deeper meaning

>>18870902
>>18870922
It means mind has no substance.

>>18870922
Mahamudra is the highest view of buddhism

>>18868270
Empty things justify each other to create the appearance of non-emptiness. Things only appear to be non-empty in relation to each other, because as soon as something cannot be defined in any capacity, it has no meaning, and definition relies on having a reference to compare whatever it is you're defining to. Take away the relationships, and everything is empty. Because everything relies on something else to justify it, this creates an infinite chain of justification where the last link is an unanswered question, which when answered only leads to more unanswered questions. The only way to see the emptiness is to step outside the chain and see a great length of it rather than just whatever definitions are adjacent to the immediate things in your life you attempt to define.

The question still remains whether things have always been this way or if this is a "new" dynamic, imo.

>>18870908
>It's like a nihilism that annihilates itself
As it should. If it doesn't, it's a hypocrite.

>>18874357
no it's not you slag